Transcript of Stop Borrowing, Start Building Wealth New

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Rachel Cruze, hosting this hour with Jade Warschau. So give us a call at 888-828-1412. And we'll answer your questions about your life and your money. All right, first up, we have Justin in Knoxville, Tennessee. Hi, Justin. Welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Uh, so I'm just trying to figure out— we've got a little over $100,000 in debt. We get married in a little over a month. And we are aiming to be as close to debt-free as possible. Obviously not with the house, but try and get everything else paid off to where we can have, you know, more freedom to do the things that we want to do.

So how much of the $100,000 is the house and how much of it is like consumer debt?

Now the house is another $205,000. The $100,000, a little over $100,000 is our cars and credit cards.

Oh, okay. Okay, so break it out for us. Tell us about the cars. Tell us about the credit cards.

So we've got, in her car, we have about $55,000, $54,000. In my truck, we've got about $49,700.

Oh boy.

Gosh, that's a lot of debt on cars.

I hope you guys make it, though.

Yeah, what do y'all make, Justin? What will your household income be combined and everything in a month?

Combined a month would be around $13,000.

All right.

And that's after tax.

After tax.

Okay. And then the credit cards are just another, what, like 5?

Yeah, we've got $2,800 on one, $2,500 on another, then $600 on one and $700 on another.

Okay.

A little over $6,000 and split between 4 cards.

So I thought I heard you say, and maybe I misunderstood, I thought I heard you say, I'd love to have as much of this paid off before the wedding as possible. Did I hear that correctly?

Not before, but we're gonna start on it now, whatever plan we have, and just getting it done as quickly as possible is what we'd like.

Well, I asked that because, I mean, I'm looking at these cars and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, what an easy offload of almost $100,000 of debt.

Yeah, and bringing home, you know, $130,000, $160,000. So yeah, the cars, the cars, Justin, they need to go.

Yeah, and so what we've kind of, you know, planned out in our head is the snowball on the credit cards, and then double and triple on one car until it's paid off, and then moving it all over to the other car.

I mean, here's the problem with that. So what Rachel said earlier is she was hinting at a rule of thumb that we have here, which is things that are going down in value, things with wheels and motors should really be no more than half of your annual income gross. Right. So if you're around $130K, is that right?

Together, we're a little over that. So you tell me, $105K.

Okay.

She makes $105,000 a year. I make $56,000. Okay, so what—

We're, we're so—

we're around $160,000, close to it.

$160,000. Okay, still, that is way more than what I would say, because half that puts you at $80,000 in cars, and you're at $100,000 in cars. Yeah, over $100,000.

How much could you sell them for?

Um, hers probably 50, mine probably 38.

Okay, so you're underwater on both of them.

Do you have any money saved?

Yeah, we've got, um, close to probably 60 in savings.

I love that. Is that for the wedding?

Um, that's just kind of for everything. Um, so the house is a new thing. We just got our house put on, um, some family property. And we have, we've spent probably $30,000 in what we had. So we had close to $90,000 before we started on the house. And we're in the $50,000, mid-$50s now, or close to $60,000.

So here's what I'm hearing. What I'm hearing is, and I love that you're calling now, you know, that you guys are starting a marriage fresh because you really need organization. I think that you guys have good intention, but everything's kind of everywhere and there's not a solid plan around it. And I, Right. I would love to see you go into the marriage with a very clean perspective on how we feel about debt, how we feel about savings, how we're gonna operate our lives going forward. And I would personally love to see you guys start that on a fresh foundation. If you said in the next 30 days, we're really gonna be serious about selling off these cars, you have the money to clear the, the deficit, right? And then you have the money to turn around and buy something reasonable in cash for both of you. You could both spend $15,000, uh, a car and still have $30,000 left, which is a great starter emergency fund. It's probably around, you know, gets you close to the 3 months of expenses point. So, and then meanwhile, you could cash flow paying off the credit cards and you truly could go into the first month of what, of your marriage debt-free.

100%.

How amazing would that feel?

Yeah.

Justin, do you guys—

Absolutely.

Do y'all both feel this way? Who's, who's kind of driving this idea of changing your financial situation? Is it more you, or is it her? Is it both of you guys?

It's both of us. We just, we are not in a hard spot. Like, we have the cash flow to pay the debt. Our big thing is like, we wanna be able to not have to worry about making so many payments monthly. You know, it feels like we're always spending $500, $600, $700 here.

Yeah.

And then our big $1,800 mortgage is, A big thing, which we plan to refinance that in a year or so and get it lower.

The thing is, that's not— the mortgage shouldn't feel that way because the mortgage is actually a fair piece of your $13,000 take-home. The reason it feels like that is because of this debt specifically. Probably your car payments are what feel astronomical. And when you add that all together, suddenly that $13,000 is whittled down and you don't feel like you're being able to enjoy it.

Yeah. Justin, how much are you guys paying in car payments per month?

So my truck, the $49,000, that is at $584 a month.

Okay.

And then her car, which had a start of $85,000, that we pay $980 a month on.

Good, nice.

Plus insurance.

Yeah, plus insurance. We pay $390 a month in insurance.

So y'all are $2,000 a month basically in cars.

That's more than you pay for your house.

Yeah, right.

That doesn't— that didn't sit right with me. Does it sit right with you?

No. And that's what we've— that, that's a big reason why we've been talking about, um, first of all, getting all these cards paid off and then figuring something out with the vehicles.

Um, so what do you think you're gonna do? Because Rachel and I laid out our point of view. What do you think, going off this call, is your first course of action?

Talk to her about her car. Hers is a big one, I would imagine.

Justin, yours is close. Yours is close.

Yeah, why don't you marinate on this a little bit longer? Because I think you'll find that what Rachel and I are saying is the quickest course to what you asked us early on, which is you said, I'd love to go into the marriage with as little debt as possible. And Rachel and I gave you a solution to do that.

Yep. Pay off those credit cards, sell the cars, Justin, and start new. Just start fresh. Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruze. When it comes to life insurance, most people fall into one of two camps. The ones who make a plan to protect their family, And the ones who hope everything will just work out. But hope isn't a financial plan. When you get married or have kids, your money decisions aren't just about you anymore. Your income helps keep the lights on, pay the mortgage, and put food on the table. And if something happens to you, will your family have protection or uncertainty? Well, at Ramsey, we recommend term life insurance at 10 to 12 times your income with a 15 to 20-year term for the years that your kids are at home and your mortgage is still being paid off. That's why Winston and I have our term life coverage through Zander Insurance. They're an independent broker who works for you, shopping all the top companies to find the most competitive prices on coverage you need. Get instant quotes online in just minutes at zander.com or call 800-356-4282 to get your family protected with term life insurance.

That's zander.com or 800-356-4282. Up next, we have Paul in Washington, D.C. Hi, Paul. Welcome to the show.

Hi, how are we doing today?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

I had a question. I'm, I'm, uh, in a few months I'm going to be inheriting a paid-off $400,000 house and around $38,000 in cash. And I was wondering if it'd be a good idea to, to do, uh, to put a mortgage on the house to pay off some of my debt.

Okay. Um, for the sole purpose of paying off debt?

And to renovate the house, actually.

And to renovate the house.

Okay.

How much debt do you have?

Uh, currently around $45,000.

Apparently. What do you mean? You're like, that's what they're telling me. That's what they're telling me.

Yeah. So $25,000 of that is a car loan and $20,000 in credit cards.

Credit cards. How much do you make a year?

About $85,000.

$85,000.

Okay.

So, um, you mentioned that there was cash, $38,000 cash. I mean, what would cause you not to put that on the $45,000 of debt and then just cash flow the other, you know, $7,000 or whatever's left?

That's a good— I was planning on paying off the credit cards, um, with that And then fixing up a few things and repairing it, repairing the truck. So that's where that was going to go, was to pay off the credit cards and then keep the truck loan and then pull out like $100,000, pay off the truck, renovate the house.

How much do you owe on the truck?

$25,000.

$25,000.

Oh, okay. Okay. And how much does it cost to fix the truck?

So I was gonna do, let's say about $3,000 to $4,000.

Of work.

Okay. And is that urgent? Like, is this a car that you drive every day for work or is this just one of those third vehicles that's just sitting in the driveway that you wanna get fixed?

It's not urgent, but it just needs it. So, you know, you take care of the truck so it doesn't get worse. It's not like a truck.

Paul, are you planning on living in this house?

Yes, I'm currently living in the house.

Okay, gotcha.

You're—

wait, you're currently living there or you're planning on it? What did you say?

Currently living there.

Currently living.

Okay.

And you said it needs work?

It does need to be updated and plumbing fixed. And so I'd estimate, you know, the hardwood floors and just like a total— not a total renovation, but just bringing it up.

Mm-hmm. So, the biggest thing I see so far, Paul, is you have used debt to get what you want in life, right? Whether it's cars, you have $20,000 in credit card debt, you're wanting to go into more debt to pay off debt and to do this. And so, what ends up happening is you end up living in this cycle of just payments. of continually going to debt for it to be the thing to get you what you want versus Paul going to Paul and getting what you need from you, which is gonna take longer. It's gonna take a lot of work and more patience. But at the end of the day, when you eventually eliminate debt from your life, not only does peace and sanity and a good sleep at night happen, but also, you get to keep your $85,000 income versus it going out. 6 different directions like it is now. So, my goal and Jade's goal for you would be to not only not take out this mortgage to go deeper in the cycle you've been in, but to become a free man and to have autonomy over your money and actually get out of debt and still get what you want.

So, that's what I wanna lay out for you is this is what I would do. And Jade, you can concur or, you know, push back.

So far, I concur.

Yes, so I would take your $38,000 in cash, And I would pay off the credit cards tonight. You'll have $18,000 left. I would either use some of that cash to fix the $3,000 you need on the truck, and then throw $15,000 at the loan, get it down to $10,000, and then say, you know what? I'm gonna throw $2,000 to $3,000 a month at this and get it paid off in the next 3 months.

Super fast.

So, we're in, at the end of August, you got August, you got September, October, November. By Christmas, Paul, you're completely debt-free. Okay? And then, you're gonna start building up an emergency fund over the course of January, February, March, and get at least a 3-month emergency fund. And then, we're gonna look at the house. So, we'll attack the house next spring, and we're gonna cash flow it.

Yes.

We're gonna see what we need urgently, and we're gonna save up and fix part of the plumbing over on these 3 bathrooms that need it the most. And then, the next, and then the next. And then, the hardwood floors can come next fall. And we're gonna just live a life and pace our life decisions based on what we can afford, not what we can borrow.

Yeah, I mean, Paul, this $400,000 completely free and clear house is such a blessing.

Oh, what a gift, yes, yes.

It is a clear blue perfect blessing in your lap. To turn around and put debt on it, it almost feels disrespectful to the blessing, if I can say that. I don't wanna overstep, but it almost does because that person worked hard to be able to leave that legacy gift. and for it to be debt-free. And so, there's a part of that that I see that it just doesn't feel right for you to turn around and take out debt. I mean, am I off base there, or do you feel that too?

That's, you know, you're on target.

Yeah, I think what Rachel laid out, and I just wanna call this out because there is a part of all of us that wants what we want when we want it, right? And probably when you received this, it was like, oh gosh, I can do so much now. I can do this and this and this and this. It's exciting to be able to do the things you want and some of the things that have probably been on your waiting list for years. And it's like, oh gosh, I can finally get to this. But to slow down and do it right and to make sure that you're not adding any lack of gain to yourself, right? Right. You like, you wanna be able to keep moving forward and not cause anything to go backwards. And one of the things I say all the time over here is you've, you can't solve a problem while simultaneously creating it. So you do, Mm-hmm. the very first step you have to take is decide. I just don't, I'm not gonna borrow money anymore. And that's, Paul, if there's one thing that I would say leaving this call, is that needs to be your mindset.

I'm not borrowing any money anymore, and I don't need to.

That sounds good. That's why I called.

Yeah.

I mean, honestly, this is a, it's kind of a fork in the road of what you get to decide, this huge gift of a home. And are you gonna continue the blessing of it to bless your life, to keep you, to have a level of peace and sanity and control? Or are you gonna continue to fall prey to the idea that debt has to be part of your life? And that you see an asset, like we see an asset like this, a $400,000 house, and we're like, oh my gosh, like—

You're done.

Like, there's nothing tied to it. Like, what a gift. And then, some people see it, and they're like, oh, it's basically a ching-ching. It's like a little miniature bank that I get to go borrow from. And we're like, no, no, because that turns the gift right back into the problem of sitting there with $20,000 of credit card debt and a, you know, and a car loan of $25,000.

And I think there's an intentionality play on the way of thinking on both sides of this, because we're sitting here saying the intentional thing to do is draw a line in the sand and say, By principle, I'm not a person who's gonna borrow money. And there's a very clear intention there. What I find with folks who do borrow money is there's not a clear line. They don't say, you know, for me, $100,000 of debt, that's what I think is a fair amount of debt for me to carry, right? There's no, it's just kinda like, well, if it's $50,000, if it's $100,000, if it's $12,000 on a car, there's no clear line. And we're challenging people to say, be intentional.

Yes.

Like, if he had called in and said, you know what, I just like having $50,000, that's the way I like to do my life, I have $50,000 of debt, I would almost have more respect for that because you've just, at least you've made a clear choice. But debt is sneaky and it does cause us to just kind of like go with the flow. And Dave says it, you know, you can wander into debt. And that's just what it is. You just wander in. But we're telling you, don't wander out. Be so clear. Draw a line in the sand. I don't borrow money. That's that on that.

And Paul, listen to yourself. You wanted to have this debt paid off in some capacity, right? And you're using more debt to do it, which we don't agree with. But the idea you want it paid off, Just proves that you don't want this.

You don't want it.

You don't want it. And so listen to that. Like, there's an inner voice in there that's saying, giving you a message of like, okay, I want this gone. I don't know how to get it gone. I just want it gone. And we're saying, Paul, you take care of it. Keep this asset debt-free, the house, and you make some strategic decisions in your budget and with your margin to pay it off.

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All right, we have, uh, Matthew up next. in Houston, Texas. Hi, Matthew. Welcome to the show.

Hi, how are y'all?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Okay. So I feel like I'm running into what might feel like a common thing among younger people today. I'm not really sure, but making decent money, but still feeling like it's paycheck to paycheck. And I assume that could be a budgeting thing and whatnot, but essentially I'll kind of just walk you through what we have here.

So we have $35,000 In consumer debt.

We spend $2,400 a month on a leased or a rented house. We have 2 car leases at $300 a month per car, which I'm sure you guys are gonna not like.

Mm-hmm.

You know, all of our main internet, phones, utilities, groceries are maybe like $650 a month, and insurance and whatnot. I make $92,500 annual, and my wife works as a nurse PRN about 3 to 4 times a month, which is about $450 maybe a shift. So I guess my question really is, is there any way we can kind of get out of this hole that's killing our ability to invest in our kids' future and have equity in almost anything, most notably a home? And what are your opinions on the best options for doing so?

Yeah, what's the $35,000 in debt? You said consumer debt.

Is it—

That doesn't include the leased cars, right? So is it student loans, credit cards?

Right, yeah, it does not. And it's actually a consolidation loan that we got to lower our interest rate. So we were paying maybe like 24%, 25%. And I made a decision to, or I guess me and my wife made a decision to consolidate all that into one big chunk of debt. And it kind of lowered our payment by like $300 a month. trying to help us with the cash flow of it, but—

Okay, so that's just one large—

One large chunk.

Yeah.

So if I can for a second, the hard part about consolidating debt is you get, you might get the interest rate, but you lose the benefit of a debt snowball. You lose the benefit of being able to focus on something small and kind of check 'em off your list as you go and get, feel that momentum. And the other part of that, and I just wanna say this, 'cause this is helping other people, Matthew, not just you, but those listening, is, you know, The point is to pay as much as you can on the debt, not pay as little as you can, um, on the debt. So that's just, that's a teaching moment for everybody. But I do want to know, with your $92,000 and with her nursing, what do you guys bring in every single month?

Um, I think it's a, I think it's around gross, it's around $66,000 if she works 3 times a month.

And what would cause her to not work 3 times a month? Like, what causes her schedule to be less solid?

Right. So we don't—

we haven't done daycare or anything like that.

So she's usually at home with the kids. We have 2 kids, 2 young kids, a toddler and an infant. And so she usually works on Fridays because I get a half day at home. But, you know, sometimes she may not be able to work 4 times or 3 times because we're traveling to her parents in another city or something like that on the weekend. Things like that.

Okay. All right. So yeah, I mean, what's going on here is basically what we would tell everybody. There's really 2 places that you can start. The first place you need to start is with a budget, right? I think that you have a sense of your numbers, but the way you were talking about them doesn't make me feel like it's something that you guys are doing month to month that you're both all in on.

Yeah, because you should have close to $4,000. Everything you just listed out, there should be $4,000 left. Now, I know that didn't include food. And a couple of other categories, right? But I think if you guys had a really solid budget, and you— we'll give you EveryDollar as our gift to you, to really be able to look line by line and say, what can we cut out? Because hopefully, you could throw an extra $2,000, $2,500 a month at this. And if she decides to pick up some extra work when she— where she can, that's just gravy on top. And you guys will just be slowly, You know, kind of chipping away at this $35,000. But my hope for you, Matthew, is that if you go all in, then that means you would even be working extra. You would be, you know, obviously helping cut the expenses, but like whatever more you can do makes it go faster, right? So say you did $3,000 a month, you guys would be done in 10, 11 months of this debt.

Right, okay. And I've played around with EveryDollar a little bit, like as far, like, you know, obviously we don't I don't have the premium one, and I appreciate you guys for offering that. And I just, you know, when I start putting, you know, I go, I backtrack a little bit, and I just kind of put in numbers from previous months, and it just seems like the surplus just melts away. And then, you know, that's probably us just not paying attention.

No, as it would if you were pulling in numbers from last month, because you guys weren't on a budget last month.

We were overspending.

Yeah. So you have to say, this is how much we wanna throw, this is when we wanna get outta debt, which means we have to, throw this amount every single month, which means we have to find that every single month in the budget, which means we're gonna be cutting things.

Yes.

We're not going out to eat.

Right.

We're cutting subscriptions. Like, we are cutting gym membership, everything to get this one magical number every single month that's gonna be thrown at the debt. And then in 10 months, Matthew, you can put some of that back in. You know what I mean? Like, it's not like it's gone forever, but you guys have to have an aggressive change to see progress. It's just chipping away a little bit here and like, okay, we'll cut that and maybe this.

Yeah, you're just trying to avoid that.

And you just feel like, yeah, you're not making any traction. That's why we are pretty intense on the sacrifice side of getting out of debt so that you feel momentum happening. Because if you don't, it just elongates it and it's exhausting.

Well, yeah, it's like anything else. If you want to make progress in an area, you're going to feel the pain of that progress. Like if you lift weights, you can't just, you know, lift 2.5-pounders. You're not going to build anything. You got to feel it. And so it's the same thing with this. I think Rachel is exactly right. So, for instance, just to give you a real picture with kind of real numbers, if you look back, what is it, August? So, if you look back for July and say, what did we spend on groceries? And you found that you spent $1,200 on groceries, well then, that's you then this month decide, we're only going to spend $950 on groceries. If you look back and you say, oh my gosh, we spent, you know—

$600 Eat Now.

Yes, this month we're only spending $150. Like, hard stop right there. So, those are— and you are going to feel it. You're gonna feel like a child crying because you're not getting your way. Honestly, you will. And it's gonna be one of those things where like, you look at each other and it's like, oh my gosh, this sucks.

Yes.

Truly. And one of you, I don't know who, 'cause I don't know your marriage, one of y'all is gonna be like Eve, trying to get the other one to do wrong. And one of you is gonna have to be strong and be like, we said we were gonna do this. And it's gonna feel like that for a couple of months until you start seeing, um, not to mess up the analogy, but until you start seeing the fruit of what you're doing. And then when that happens, you're gonna go, okay, this is worth it. And it gets easier and a little bit easier every month. But if you guys do this, something really special happens. Rachel, I don't know if we talk about this enough. You're just gonna become people who you do what you say you're gonna do. And there is such a trust there that's built. between couples when it's like, we shake and agree on something. And then I actually see like, he held up his side of the bargain, I held up my side of the bargain. And what that's gonna do for your marriage beyond just the money and the debt payoff is really something, Matthew.

And it's really worth you guys just going just 10 toes into this thing.

Yeah, and that you're both people that can, the phrase is so overused these days, but it's just true, that can do hard things, right? Like, you're going to run into stuff that's not easy. We just had our parent-teacher conference with our 3rd grade class yesterday, last night, and they had, phrase, and she talked about like, the suffering that happens.

Yeah.

But it's good. Like, they're gonna run into things, we all do, that it's like, it doesn't come easy. And it's frustrating, and you just want the answer. You just want the, you know, the quick way out. And that's not how life works. And so, when you go through it together, though, in a marriage, and you're like, wow, we can do that. Like, we can do things that are really difficult. There's a tolerance that's built up there that's just— it's good for your marriage. Like, there's something that is so unifying in that, Matthew, for you all. instead of just kind of like placating this idea of money, you're like, no, no, no, we're gonna be people of intentionality. And you said at the beginning of the call, which I think is awesome, that you're doing it for a reason. You're like, we wanna save for our kids' future. We want to be people that our kids have a better life than we did. And that's a noble goal, right?

Absolutely.

To have that why. So, we really do believe in transformation, Matthew. And I think you guys can take what you've done Do a 180 and say, you know what, we're gonna crush this. And it may not be the popular thing in our neighborhood. And you sound like a smart guy, Matthew, very well-spoken. And so I think you know this stuff in your head. It's just when it goes from there to your heart and you lock arms with your spouse and say, okay, we're in this together.

Yeah, and we didn't talk about those leases, but go on Ask Ramsey and ask them, what would we say to do with those leases? And it'll tell you exactly what to do.

Yep, and everyone, you can download EveryDollar Download Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play if you want to check it out.

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Up next, we have Katie in Green Bay. Hi, Katie. Welcome to the show.

Hi there, ladies.

How are you?

Hi, we're doing great. How are you?

Fantastic. Thanks. Calling in today, just my husband and I are in Baby Step 6, and we're looking for advice about prioritizing cash flowing some major renovations on our home over paying it off early. Knowing that we intend to sell our home and relocate once our youngest graduates high school in about 8 years, we want to maximize that sale price.

Okay. Well, 8 years is a while. Do you think you could do both? You could do renovations and probably have it paid off in 8 years?

I don't think that we'd be able to do both. This is an old farmhouse. It needs some major upgrades that we not only want to be able to enjoy while we live here, but to be able to make it competitive. Lots of new construction, new subdivisions that are kind of growing around us. So we were just kind of wondering if it would be wise just to prioritize those renovations, knowing that we would definitely be able to get it out in the end.

What's the price tag? Like, of all the things that you're wanting to do, whether it's floors, kitchen, bathrooms, roof, whatever, what's it all going to cost when you look at the whole scope of it?

We've kind of done some budgeting and things, you know, kind of trying to estimate some of it. We can do a lot of this work ourselves. We would hire contractors to do some of the majors, the plumbing, the electrical, and things like that. But a lot of the cosmetic things we are able and capable to do ourselves. We've already done many projects here already.

Okay.

Um, a price tag, it'd really be hard. The way we've kind of done it so far is we pick a project—

I don't know. Let me stop you on that because you're telling me that if we do these projects, it will keep us from having the margin to pay off the house early. If you tell me that, I'm looking at this going, okay, then this is a hefty price tag. But then when I asked you, you're kind of backpedaling on it. If you were to look at this, not, not even, even the projects you're going to do yourself, right? There's still materials, there's still things involved that you have to spend money on. So if you— I'm not, I'm not scared. So if you, if you tell me the number, we want to, we want to help you work this out.

Sure.

I guess that is some research that we have been doing with each project. So I definitely— the kitchen definitely needs to be upgraded. Both bathrooms, the idea would be Modest flooring throughout the whole home and then kind of just the curb appeal. And we're just trying to do it in order.

Yeah.

And all that adds good value to resale. Everything you, everything you said, which is great. So price tag-wise, how much do you think all that's going to cost?

Yeah. How many square feet is this house?

It's just over 3,000.

Okay. So is it fair to say like this is like a, like $40,000 for the kitchen, $10,000 per bathroom, and maybe another $10,000 to $15,000 for the floors? Is that fair?

I would say that that would be a little bit of a— yes, a great estimate. Maybe running into some issues being that it's an old farmhouse. You always run into those project issues.

So let's say $100,000, $75,000 to $100,000.

And how much is very fair? And how much is left on the house, Katie, to pay off?

We, we owe $250,000. The current, current value with just our Our real estate agent's current rough estimate is between, as it is currently, is between $500,000 and $600,000.

Okay, so this would definitely, you would get, I think you would get more than $100,000.

Yeah, for sure.

Price-wise, right? After these renovations added to it. Absolutely. So.

And this is an 8-year play? Did I hear that?

Yeah, that would be our 8-year planning to, at the very least, downsize from this big home. But our plan is to completely I think there's time.

It just depends on what you guys' income is, what money you have saved. So, tell us a little bit about that.

We have approximately between $1,000 and $5,000 in margin to be able to do this each month. Our monthly net income is drastically variable. We own a small business that is very seasonal. So, it does vary. But we have Let me see. We've got upwards of $5,000 a month to do some of these projects and things.

I tend to veer on the side of Rachel. How much is the mortgage payment, by the way? Just your normal mortgage payment?

Our normal mortgage payment is $1,200 per month, which falls below about 18% of our monthly income.

Let me give you a little framework of how I view these things, and I think Rachel will land the plane for you. very nicely. So when I think about big expenditures, I run them through kind of a financially responsible adult checklist. And these are the things that I must be doing in order to do said expenditure, right? Number 1, you've got to be on a budget. That's— I've got to be living on a budget. That's what I do. That's a green check for you. I believe you're on a budget. Number 2, I've got to be out of debt. And the thing that I want to do obviously can't cause me to go into debt. But green check on that. Number 3, I've gotta be carrying the proper insurances. I have a will, life insurance, health insurance. I've done all that. Nothing's pending there. That's the next check. The 3rd thing, and this is the big one, and I'll go out of order. So, I saved the big one for the end. The 4th thing is I need to prioritize generosity. If you're doing that consistently, it's not gonna cause me to stop prioritizing generosity. Green check.

Now, the 5th one, and this is the one where I think you have a problem, is I also have to be prioritizing Saving. And the way that we talk about saving around here is Baby Step 3, gotta have 3 to 6 months of expenses. Baby Step 4, I must be investing 15%. It cannot cause me to stop investing 15%. And the third one, which is getting you, I have to prioritize saving in my forced savings account, which is my home. I need to be putting some extra bit because this is the plan I said I'm following.

Mm-hmm.

I need to be putting some extra bit on my mortgage because that's my forced savings account. And so, I actually think that you have the margin to do both. It's just gonna take you a little longer.

Okay.

Yeah, but I would be okay with you guys cash flowing some renovations, you know, and slowing down a little bit on paying off the house in order to do that. Because if you guys save, or you literally, it makes me always nervous doing renovations, like, month by month.

Yeah.

From a money perspective, because stuff comes up that's a high dollar sometimes, and you're like, oh crap, and then it kind of puts you backwards. So, I almost would take 6 months or so and have like $30,000, like, in the bank. And so, then we can press go and then continue to save on top of this. But you guys can have all this done, Katie. I mean, I don't know from the renovation side, but from the money perspective, at 5, you know, I know it's not always $5,000 a month, but it could be anywhere from 18 to 24 months. to be able to cash flow all of these. And maybe you start with the big, you know, you do the kitchen first. And then, after that's done, you know, and if you do have to pause and save up a little bit more to do a bathroom, you just, when you do that, you are kind of living in a construction zone for about 18 months. So, if you're okay with that. But I do think, I don't think I'm off base to say that that would— that is gonna add value. That's putting equity back in.

Oh, 100%.

Which is a great thing. You guys aren't doing, a pool, even though I love a pool, you're not gonna get the money out for that, right? So if that's what you were saying, I'd be like, if you wanted to, just know. But for me, this is even more of a plus because you're hitting the things that every homeowner looks at: bathrooms, kitchens, floors, paint, and landscape. Like, when you do that, you are adding value back to your home.

But I do think like doing that in phases, to Rachel's point, it's like, okay, we're gonna spend 6 months, we're gonna save up for one of the bathrooms or whatever your rate is. And then you take a moment and you're like, you know what, let's do an extra mortgage payment or 2. And then you go back and you go, okay, now this next span of time. So it's, you're not, you're not stopping your progress on the Baby Steps. You're just spending span of time, spans of time on the things you want, but then you're jumping right back into it. And I think that's a fair way to do it.

Yeah, keeping it going throughout it too.

Yeah, that sounds like a great balance. That's kind of how we anticipated it, stacking the cash and then having it so we can cash flow individual projects as we go and then go from there, always anticipating that they're gonna take longer and cost more than we planned.

There you go.

Yeah, that's true. And I do—

That's the reality. That's good.

And Rachel, this is probably your world more than it is mine, but I do think knowing that you're gonna wanna move on from the house, but you also wanna enjoy it, I feel like that's something you have to think about when you're making certain choices, that you're not over-renovating, that you're not overly personalizing it, knowing that you're gonna wanna get out of it.

Yeah, some of the worst stuff is people take, a garage and turn it into something else, and now it's no longer a garage. But a garage is such a big feature for selling a home. Or they take a bedroom and they knock out the wall and make it, you know what I mean? Like, like there are things that you're like, okay, that just, no. You can do it for you because you love it and that's what you want. But if your goal in the back of your mind is knowing you're out in 8 years, to your point, making a little bit more generic selections.

Yes.

And not the like crazy specific ones, even though I'm sure, Katie, your taste is great, and you're in the farmhouse world where I think most Americans want to be.

Yeah.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruze, hosting this hour with Jade Warschau, and we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225. All right, we have Matthew in Providence, Rhode Island up next. Hi, Matthew. Welcome to the show.

Hey, how's it going?

Thanks for taking the call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

Um, so I'll just give you a little, a little backstory of what's going on. Um, me and my, my girlfriend, we had a daughter. Uh, she's not my fiancée, uh, so she moved in with me and she has a lot of credit card debt, uh, $75,000 in credit card debt. So, um, and that was kind of, you know, she worked full-time at night, I work full-time during the day. We get a lot of babysitting help, so we don't have to pay for babysitters. So that's nice. Um, yeah.

So where does that come from?

That's a lot.

Yeah, sure is. Uh, some of it was like before I met her, she was working like 70 hours a week. So she was working during the day and then at night. And then, so she's kind of got, I think, used to a lifestyle that, um, you know, and then started working half those hours.

Oh, and continued it. And so that caused the credit card debt.

Makes sense.

Okay.

Yeah.

And then obviously she got pregnant and her job kind of closed down for a while, you know, doing renovations. And then I just think it snowballed. I didn't realize she was putting like formula, diapers, and stuff on a credit card. Like, because we were, we were moving in together, but we weren't like, we're not like integrated together, you know what I mean? Like, I wasn't sure exactly how she was doing it. I just, I knew she was working, but I didn't know How bad it was.

Yeah. Okay.

So yeah, yeah, exactly.

So you got $75,000 in credit card debt, or she does. What, what other debt do you guys have?

Uh, I have— well, I have no credit card debt. We both have $13,000 left on our cars.

Um, individually or together?

Uh, individually. She has $13,000 on hers.

Okay.

Okay.

Yep, yep.

So, um, Yeah, so basically that's kind of been like in the background. Like, and well, she, you know, she had a baby, she was a full-time student.

Uh, you're saying you all had a baby though, right?

Uh, well, we, we of course we have a baby.

I mean, you know, I mean, you're not really taking—

you're not saying it.

You're not—

yeah, you're not really taking care of it. That's what it feels like, is she's taking care of everything, right?

No, no, no, no, absolutely not. No, no, no. No, I pay for— so let me get to the rest of it and then it'll make more sense.

Please help us out.

So I, I, I'm getting there, I promise.

Okay.

Um, yeah, so what point, point is she was in the middle of like finishing her degree when we met. Um, so she was, you know, full-time student, full-time— well, you know, mom. I mean, we split duties, but still it's, it's a lot, you know. Um, and then full-time employee. So You know, it was just a lot all at once.

Yeah.

So.

How old's the baby now?

So, she's 18 months.

Okay, 18 months. So, you guys have started to get a little bit of a rhythm, a little bit of a flow going on, and you're looking up saying, hey, this debt, this is the problem. We need to start solutioning that. Can I ask one question? I just want to make a— Yeah, yeah. Is this your fiancée or your girlfriend?

She's my fiancée now.

She is your fiancée?

We just got engaged. Yeah, we got engaged June 30th.

When do y'all get married? When's the wedding? What date?

Well, we're still kind of unsure about that. Um, next year sometime.

No.

We're just gonna have a small—

Matthew, you know, you're basically married. You guys live together, you have a baby together.

Yes.

But what—

I know, this is— yeah.

What's the purpose of waiting is like, is the question.

What's— oh, oh, um, well, we want to do a church wedding. You know, we're Catholic, we want to do a church wedding. So, um, well, I'm Catholic, she's not Catholic.

Wait a minute, but it takes 18 months? To get a church wedding?

No, I guess not. But just—

Matthew, we need a little urgency. We need a little urgency in life. We want this debt paid off. We need to get together. We need to make this official. We need to like—

But you can't roll the Catholic thing back in when it matters on getting married, but it didn't matter before.

This is unfair because this is sounding bad and this is not.

Listen, hey, we're on your side. We're on your side. We truly, truly are.

She's— no, she's She's totally on board with the timeline. I know I've tried to get like people yelling at me.

What if you did this?

People yell at me all the time 'cause I say like, I'm like, I'm watching my daughter and they're like, you're not watching your daughter, it's your—

I know, semantics.

I hear you, I hear you.

But it is not semantics when we're gonna talk about your money because the way Jade and I are gonna answer it is that it is gonna be separate. There is no combining right now because you don't have any legal protection. She doesn't have legal protection financially, neither do you. You don't until you guys are legally married. So, our advice is gonna be different though, Matthew. I know, but here we say, what we're about to walk through is going to look different because you don't have a wedding date set. And I'm not trying to box you, put you in a box, Matthew, 'cause I like ya. You're fun. But this whole semantics thing is real. And you may call in 2 years and be like, I don't know, you know, this happened and this— like, so, until you guys are married, we would give you one set, a plan one way. And then there's going to be another plan until you're married. So here's what we would say, because—

Well, that's another piece I guess I haven't really thought about yet. Like, um, like, I trust her fully, um, and I know, like— and that's the thing, we're not quite married yet, but I understand, you know, with her being my fiancée, that's why, that's why we're kind of, you know, really trying to deal with this. Just the emotional stress that she's carrying from this. Like, well, so—

Let us give you a solution. Let us give you a solution. Because all that you're saying, the emotional stress, the dollars, the all of this stuff, I think Rachel and I, there's 2 routes here. I wanna simplify it for you because it feels like a lot floating around your head. There's 2 routes.

Yep.

The one route is you can say, we're not married yet, therefore, everything is separate. This is my baby. I am devoted to my child, but financially, our lives are separate. That means her debt is her debt. And my debt, that means your only debt is a $13,000 car and you're paying it off. And we can give you the 7 steps to make that happen and give you financial peace. The other choice, which I actually feel is a better choice for you, if you do say this is the woman you wanna marry, is you can go to the courthouse. You can fill out the piece of paper and be married on paper so that you can legally combine and work together. And then later on, when you can afford to have a party and do the church wedding and things like that, you're doing that as a—

Okay.

Just as a show and a party for your friends.

Yeah, I guess I just don't know. I guess I just don't quite know the difference as far as what the benefit to, as far as financially being married versus not.

So that you— I'll paint you as the— would be the quote unquote victim, right? If this happens, is that you take your income, you throw $80,000 over the next 18 months at this credit card debt, and then she looks up and she's like, listen, I don't wanna do this. I'm taking the baby and we'll figure out custody later, but we're done. You have no legal protection.

But she don't know what—

Matthew, listen to our show. The craziest stuff happens on this show that people call in.

And I know you think that you—

I listen to you guys all the time.

I know you're the exception to the rule, Matthew. You are special.

No.

I know, I know.

Yeah, well, maybe a little, but no, not really. But yeah, no, but well, think about it this way. I think about it from a perspective of like faith You know, I just have faith that, like, I'm kind of—

So, what do you wanna do?

Yeah, maybe you're right.

Maybe we should— Talk to the woman whose husband has a gambling addiction and talk about faith.

Yep.

I mean, we all do.

We—

I love Jesus.

We got some faith, but we're also all human.

We gotta be smart.

Yeah, be smart. And, and, and there's no legal protection, Matthew. And so, keeping it separate. But I think what Jade is saying, combining everything is the best thing for you guys. And you're basically married, Matthew. You're basically married. Just go do it. Go do it.

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All right, today's question comes from Sierra in Georgia. She says, in the past year, I've had a few occasions when I feel like my friends are expecting me to spend money on vacation or going out when it doesn't align with my budget. I'm on Baby Step 6, paying off the house. So it's not that I never vacation or go out, but I can tell they're confused when I explain that something isn't in my budget. How do I politely say that without hurting their feelings while keeping the door open to spending time together at another time? Here's the thing, the idea of it hurting their feelings, I think, is where I'm a little bit confused. Because if somebody says to me, if I say, oh, let's go to such and such restaurant, and they go, actually, that's like, that's too steep for me, my feelings aren't hurt. Usually, I would be the one that feels a little bit like, oh, yes, no worries. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So, I wonder if their feelings are actually hurt or if you're just interpreting their reaction in a way that's—

Projecting something else.

Yes. And then, I think the simple answer to the question, honestly, Rachel, is to not really care that much what people think and just to say— 'cause if you're saying what I think you're saying, which is, I can't spend that this month, or, that's a little too expensive for me, or, that's just not in my budget this month, I think those are perfectly fine responses. I don't think you have to necessarily go into detail of the why behind why you can't go, um, especially if it's something that is just, um, more of a lifestyle difference. Because sometimes we— you may be on Baby Step 6 and it's like, oh, you're on Baby Step 6, there's no debt, you can still go out and have a good time. And that's all true. But if your friend group is in a different, completely different income level than you, Mm-hmm. and they're wanting to do things that your income just doesn't afford you to be able to do as regularly as they do, I think that's totally fair. And even if that's the case, if they're good enough friends, I would just say that. I'd be like, listen, I don't have it like you and Bob have it.

Like, you and Bob are in the high 6 figures. I'm right here. So, thank you for inviting me, but I can't do that as often as you can. And I have buddies that I would 100% say that to.

Yeah, and I have friends that have crazy work hours. And so, there'll be times that we're all like getting together and doing something. And Amber, she's always like, keep asking me, There will be a day I can. So, I think that's even okay to say. It's like, hey, I can't right now, but ask me again. Like, continue to keep me looped in. This isn't a rejection or a no to our friendship. I just, financially, literally cannot do this.

And—

but let me know next time because I would love to hopefully join in, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

And if the only time you hang out with your friends is on vacation and going out and spending a bunch of money, Some expensive friends.

Right, right, right. There's so much fun you can have just not going places.

Yes, I mean, like, I don't know. I feel like half of our hangouts are in our homes and backyards.

You know what I mean?

So, hopefully, the friendships are built and you have more quality time with them outside of just going out on vacation, but—

That's true.

I hope that helps, Sierra. That is— it is tough. It is tough when you— yeah, either it's— they're choosing to live a life beyond their means and you're choosing not to, and/or, you're exactly right, or they just make a different income. Yeah, that's true. And so, kind of facing the music sometimes with this stuff, it's not fun. But it leaves you maybe with a little bit of like, ugh, angst. But I think you would have way more angst and chaos if you just said, you know what? Forget it. I'm gonna do what I wanna do, spend what I wanna spend regardless of what I make. That's gonna cause more harm on the other side.

Well, I do wanna attack it from the other side real quick too, because I do find that some of us Baby Steppers get a little too intense on Baby Step 6.

True.

And we keep our foot on the gas from Baby Step 2, and it's like we wanna keep that same intensity. And we, I would say actually, if that's you, Sierra, you do, you need to enjoy your life and you need to go out and have fun. And I understand if you're like, I gotta pay this house off, but you do, you gotta live life too. Like this process is designed, the 7 Baby Steps is designed for a certain purpose. And the truth is, After you get past Baby Step 3, you do get to move from intensity to intentional, and a lot of us forget to make that transition, and it's so important.

That's a great point. Yeah, don't be crazy, girl. Have some fun if you're, if you're not having fun. All right, let's go to Jack in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Jack, welcome to the show.

Oh, thank you so much for taking my call.

Absolutely, how can we help?

I just need affirmation that my idea for retirement is not crazy, and I want to sell my house, invest the money, and actually just go ahead and rent the rest of my life. I mean, I'm about to turn 62, about to start collecting Social Security, and I just— am I crazy?

Why are you wanting to do that? Because you're worried you don't have enough in actual investment dollars in, in the stock market?

Well, it's actually the opposite.

I, I have no debt.

I actually have worked out where I have money in like little buckets everywhere to where I should be able to bring in between $10,000 and $12,000 a month, that including the money I would get from my house, which is paid for, and get into a secure investment bringing in about $2,000 a month. And all that would give me a total of about $2.25 million in other investments, a lot in the stock market, that I really don't have to touch and I can continue to let grow. But I also don't have that, you know, the house pay— or not house payments, but the, uh, escrow, the upkeep of it, and the things of that nature where maybe my wife and I can just travel and kind of like what you're saying a minute ago about just enjoy life.

So it almost— and it almost sounds like you're more interested in downsizing and having something that requires less attachment, like maybe like a townhome or something where you're in charge of the upkeep, that you can kind of travel and you're not worried about the, the, the property itself. Because the truth is, and we'll get into this a little bit more, but having a personal residence is a big piece of, of security on down the line for a couple of reasons. Obviously, we know it's a major portion of people's portfolio when they're building wealth as a Baby Steps millionaire. But the second part of it is you're keeping what for most people is the biggest line item on your budget. You're keeping it stable because rent is going to continue to go up and up and up.

Jack.

And there's part of you that wants to have that stability of saying, but my mortgage, once it's paid off, it's just that I know what the taxes are. I know what the, you know, the insurance are. And so that's the piece of it that would make me go, I would love for you to own something that's yours that can remain stable.

Okay.

Because over the course of time, Jack, even if you were just pulling out what your investments were making and not touching the principal, but you just kind of like, basically took out the growth of $12,000 a month. That, when you think about it, in 20 years, which you easily could be alive, rent, oh my gosh, would be who knows how much, right?

Yeah.

In 20 years of the type of living situation you wanna be in. And so, for me, that is such a question mark. And it's such a big deal. And you guys aren't, maybe not gonna wanna travel when you're 82. You maybe really do wanna settle down and have consistency somewhere. And then trying to get into the market in 20 years and where houses' prices are gonna be. And if the investments don't grow at the rate you think they're gonna grow, there's just, there's a lot of risks to me. So I do wonder if you sold your house, Jack, how much would you sell it for?

A little under $600,000 is what my, the comps would be. My neighbors have recently sold theirs.

Okay.

Yeah, I just wonder if you took half of that and bought something small, right? Just to have that's yours to come back to and that you always know is there. And when you guys don't want to be traveling and moving and everything, there's just, there's a place. So that's probably what I would do. Some people are going, they are kind of taking this trend of just renting.

Yeah.

I've heard that. And in some cases, I could understand, but I think even, I mean, $2.2 million's amazing.

Yeah.

But even with that, over the course of 20, 30 years, yeah, I don't think I would trust the rent. I don't know, I don't like it.

Yeah, I think there's a time where you wanna put down to own something, even if it's a condo, to have some foot in real estate that's yours, that—

That you do now.

To your point.

In the present, and then, Yeah, that, so that's what I would do, Jack. If I woke up in your shoes, I would still have something. But again, maybe it's a significantly less valued property than you have now and you invest the difference.

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We wish we could get to every call and question here on the show, but if you do have a money question, head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. So this is our new free AI tool, and it's built on trained and proven Ramsey principles. So all of the articles and the shows and so much of the content that we put out on a daily basis out of here is all within that engine. So when you're asking it, it's basically like you're asking us here on the show. Yes, very good. Yep, so make sure to check it out. Ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All right, let's go to Micah in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi Micah, welcome to the show.

Hey, how's it going? Appreciate you taking my call.

Absolutely, how can we help?

So I am about to turn 25, and I have lived paycheck to paycheck for as long as I've been an adult out on my own, since like 19. I don't have a ton in debt, but I don't want any, obviously. Zero is the ideal number. With my truck, I have— it's like $44,000 total in debt. Without that, it's like $8,000. So most of it is the vehicle.

Mm-hmm.

I'm a firefighter right around Little Rock area, and I net probably about $3,200 a month from that job. And then I have a very small, sometimes uneventful little side gig. I do some power washing. So that's unpredictable. I've had months where it's $1,500 on the side, or months where it's a few hundred. So that's really hard to— I try not to put that too much on the budget because it's unreliable. But basically my question is just, I feel like I'm so close to being in a good financial spot with a girl. We're not engaged, but every, you know, plan to be and to be married. And I'm wanting to make sure that before I do all that, and, you know, I want to make sure that I'm in the best financial spot personally, that I'm not carrying any of this into marriage, you know, about a year down the road.

Yeah. Well, from just a debt-income ratio perspective, the truck is pretty glaring, Micah. It's a big, it's a large—

Yeah, $609 a month.

It's how much a month?

$609.

$609? Is that what you said?

Yeah.

Yep.

Yes.

Yeah, so that's—

That's your ticket out.

I mean, I'm gonna say it, but I'm like, man, for you, $1,000 difference. And I know it was $609, but if you got on a tight budget, and found 4 into work. So that's $1,000 extra a month that's just there.

Yep.

So for me, I'm like, I don't know. I probably am selling the truck.

I certainly would.

I thought of that and I'm not opposed to it. Like, I do like the truck, but I'm smart enough to know that, you know, this is a very small price to pay for setting myself up for, you know, being financially better off. Yeah.

Because here's the numbers. I just ran them real quick, Micah.

You're 25.

Let's say you retire at 67 and you just invested that truck payment every month, okay? So instead of having a truck payment, let's just pretend you just invested that. So you paid yourself. At 67, you'd have $6.5 million at retirement just by doing that.

It's not that much money.

No, no, no, just some change. Just some $6.5 million. That's change.

That's like a painful opportunity cost to pay just for a truck.

Yeah, like that's the wildness of how normalized debt is. Paying someone else versus paying yourself costs you $6.5 million.

Unbelievable.

So, that one decision, Micah, that one decision, that changes your whole life.

Yeah, well, and here's the tricky thing about it. So, I've had this truck for maybe 6 months and probably a little less than that. I drove a little Hyundai Accent, a little good gas car. $420 a month, which is, I think, pretty average. It still sucks, but for that kind of car, that seemed to be what was average. But I sold that. I still owed on it, even with what they gave me. It was about $3,000 negative equity, and they put that on this loan. Yeah.

So you're upside down.

So I'm still—

Yeah, but only $3,000 though, right? $3,000?

Yeah.

You could get that. You could get your hands on that.

Hopefully.

I mean, with the power washing, you never know. There's some jobs, I mean, that could be one or two or three jobs.

Well, then you're waiting tables the other nights.

Yeah, pick a different side hustle that's solid.

Yeah, that's what I've been doing is looking around and applying to places because I need something consistent. Yeah, power washing, when it's good, it's good, but when it's not, there's nothing.

Exactly. You need to have a couple of side hustles in your quiver that you can pull from whenever you need one. And I think I think if you do that, you're gonna be out of this in no time because you just need $3,000, right? I mean, there's, if you look around your apartment, maybe there's something you can sell to start, you know, to get the first $1,000, right? So really try to go very quickly into doing this because this is $609 on the line here. And then after that, how much did you say the other debt was? The credit cards, I think you said?

Credit cards is the next biggest one. It's like $4,400 on 2 credit cards. One is $3,500 limit. That's maxed out, and the other one is whatever the remainder of that. So, about $500 on that.

So, what's wild is if you could find, gosh, I mean, $1,000 a month, let's just say, and between this credit card debt and all of that, I mean, that's 9, 10 months.

You'd be out of this fast.

And that's just $1,000, Micah. Like, if you went and said, what if I did $2,000, right? You half that, you know, you cut that timeline in half. And that's what the identity change for you is. You're a guy right now that's kind of— you're normal. You got a nice truck. You got some credit card debt. You're making some side— you know, but you just feel like, gosh, even with the side hustle, I'm living paycheck to paycheck. That's a pretty normal profile of people. But when you change what you've been doing and you say, I'm not a person of debt. I don't borrow money, even on cars. Nothing is normalized. I'm not doing it. I'm not going into debt. I'm gonna pay myself. And instead of paying banks, Mm-hmm. for the rest of my life. I'm a person that has money saved on the side. And I'm a person that budgets, and that I know where my money's going, and I'm intentional with every single dollar. If you're bringing in $6,700 a month, you know where every dollar is going. And I guarantee you, after living a life like that for about 18 to 24 months—

Oh, yeah.

You will create such stability, and peace, and joy, discipline in your life where money no longer is an issue because you've tackled it. Like, you're the one that's controlling it. It's not controlling you anymore. But it has to— there has to be kind of this not lackadaisical mindset. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's a level of intensity of change that has to happen for you to get out of the orbit of normal.

Yeah, not to mention, your lovely lady is gonna take note of this and go, wow, this guy's got his life together. Yes, he looks like he knows how to handle his business, you know?

Yeah, and the great thing is that, uh, her and I together— I mean, we're not, we're not married, of course. That's, that's the intention, um, down the road a little bit. But we are both, you know, sitting down and, and like going over each other's separate budgets like together and just kind of airing stuff out and making sure that we're both on the same track of, you know, we're saving up to go elope. This is probably like 2 years down the road, so we're trying to get a jump on it. We know that we can I can't be super aggressive in the saving right this second, but the plan is, you know, we're both on the same track trying to make sure we're getting our money right and saving up and doing all this stuff. So, I definitely want to put myself in the best scenario. And yeah, I guess saving that up, getting out of being upside down in the truck and selling it. I mean, it's— yeah, I mean, I'm not that attached to it. It's nice, but I'd much rather just be—

I mean, you make around $70,000 and you have a $44,000 truck, so you just It's too much.

It's too much.

Even with the negative equity, like, I don't care. That's just too much debt to have on a truck because of even your income. So I would, yep, I'd for sure, for sure cut it.

Yeah, I bit off a little more than I could chew with this.

Yeah, no, that's okay.

But you know, just know that the faster you go on this, when people have a debt-free journey in front of them, the faster you go, which means the deeper the sacrifice allows you to go faster, the more likely you are to see it through till the end. If you just, you know, kind of, you know, wander through it, and I'll do a little bit here, but I don't want it to be— you're more likely to just get comfortable with status quo. And it's like, you want to finish this. You have said that. And I think you have a really nice why, which is that relationship that's sitting there in front of you. And so, really just lean into that. And to Rachel's point, what do you want your life to feel like? What do you want those first months of your marriage to feel like? What do you want?

What kind of husband do you want to be? What kind of man do you want to be? I mean, there's a, there's a lot there.

Yes, there is.

Well, thanks, Micah, for the call. Again, the number is 888-825-5225. Give us your call about your life and your money.

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Up next, we have Rachel in San Francisco. Hi, Rachel, welcome to the show.

Hi, Rachel and Jade, I'm so excited to talk to you.

Thanks for taking part Absolutely.

How can we help? My husband and I have been married for 11 years, and we are in Baby Step 2.

We started at $152,800 in debt about a year and a half ago. Since then, we've sold a car, I got a new job and moved into our RV so I can put as much money as possible towards the debt, and we are down to $18,800.

Wow!

Good night, girl! Good job!

That's amazing.

Thank you so much. Yeah, we're on a 6% APR HELOC. That's our last piece that we're paying off. And my new company restricted stock units just released and they're worth $18,200.

Oh my gosh.

Perfect.

But the stock is down 100% from last year. So I'm hesitating selling. I know you guys must tell me to sell it. I just needed to call in and make sure.

What, uh, what kind of industry is the company in?

Uh, tech.

Okay, so a little volatile, I guess, for the— is it the industry, the type of tech that you're in, or is it the specific company that you're like, eh?

It's the, um, the type of tech that I'm in is volatile, and like the whole industry is down right now.

Okay. Yeah.

Yeah, I asked Ask Ramsey and somehow got to a potentially phased exit strategy. But I don't know that that's what Dave would recommend. So—

Yeah, pulling some out as you kind of, a little bit at a time and see like every 6 months if something changes. Yeah, it wouldn't be a bad plan necessarily, but I feel like trying to time the market is never good. Because what sucks, Rachel, is I'm like, golly, in 5 months, it could be down another 100% or up 100%. You know what I mean? And either way, you're like kicking yourself. So it's like, oh my gosh.

What's your amount of margin that you're throwing at the debt every single month?

About $8,000.

Okay.

Oh, so you guys would be out in 2 and a half months.

Yeah, we're so close.

Oh, okay.

If there—

I wouldn't do single stocks anyways. So I'm like, I—

There's still a piece where I'd be like, yeah, get rid of them. Because this is exactly the reason, is because it's one single piece of, it's one single thing, and your whole world is like rising and falling by that one company.

Yes. So I probably, I would probably just cash out, Rachel. Honestly, even though it hurts that it's down. But I think trying to time something in a volatile industry is just like, there's no one has, you know, has the secrets.

No one knows when.

And I guess if you do know, you'll go to jail if you've— insider trading, if you like know what's happening.

Oh gosh.

But no, so I, yeah, I probably would just sell. I would keep that momentum of, you know, $6,000, $7,000 a month that you're throwing at this debt. Or did you say $8,000?

$8,000.

Right, yeah, and I'd take it as a gift, pay off your debt, and then build up a great emergency fund. And then, man, you guys are just, yeah, you're way ahead of the game in that. So, I think that's just what I would do. I would just see it as an $18,000 gift and call it a day.

Yeah, okay, thank you. Yeah, the 6% HELOC really just, it's such a low APR, it's hard to let it go.

Yeah, but you would've let it go anyways.

You would've just taken—

2 months, 3 months.

A little, yeah.

Yeah, okay, thanks. That's the kick I needed, I think.

Yes, I know.

And with your $8,000, think about it like this. With your $8,000 margin, you would have the money that that stock lost in 2 months.

That's right, yes.

You know what I mean?

Like, you guys are doing really, really well.

That's a good point. 100% of $18,000 is $18,000. Like, you're gonna get that back with the work ethic you guys have. Changing your life, Rachel, is not gonna be the stock. It's you guys. Now, if it was $118,000, right?

It'd feel different.

That's a, that, yes, but it's $18,000.

Yep.

And you're, and again, you can make that in 2 to 3 months, uh, with just the margin you guys have. So I don't think it's that big of a deal.

Yeah, I would agree with that.

At the end of the day, $18,000 is a gift. It's great. Uh, but I don't think it's the thing. It's not gonna be the thing that makes or breaks you guys, 'cause you guys have already done so much already, which is just insane. So well done. We're so proud of you, Rachel, for real. Like, that is, that's wild.

Really, really well.

How much, how well you guys have done. All right, let's go to Dan in Philadelphia.

Hi, Dan.

Welcome to the show.

Hey, how's it going?

Hi, we're doing great. How are you?

Good.

Awesome. How can we help today?

So this is my, this is my situation. I'm 33, I'm single. I have pretty much lived like paycheck to paycheck my entire like adult life, and I'm just kind of over it at this point. Um, so I have $9,000 in a car I have $53,000 in student loans and I have $15,000 in a legal case that I am paying. So I bring home about $4,400 a month right now. And just the area that I'm in, I've cut so much out of my life. Like, I've gotten rid of like all of my subscriptions. Like, we're doing like the Aldi shops. Like, we're doing everything possible.

Good for you.

I would love to be able to cut everything out, but the area that I'm in is just so expensive.

Where are you?

Crazy.

Oh, Philadelphia.

So I'm in, I'm in like the Philadelphia area, but I'm really in like South New Jersey.

What's keeping you there?

And I like, I have friends here and like my family's here, but aside from that, like I have friends in other cities.

Do they earn what you earn? Your friends and family, do they have, do they earn around $4,400 a month? month living in that area?

Uh, yeah.

And like, and I like, I work, uh, a remote job. Like I work in hospitality doing revenue management, so I work remote. I can go wherever I want.

So you don't need to be on the struggle bus of living in an expensive area on $4,400 a month.

Yeah.

Like, is it, is it just crazy to like, I mean, like the majority of the people that I know are here. Is it crazy to like uproot my life and go somewhere cheaper?

No, it's not. Because you, it's a pretty simple equation and I'm not gonna say that it's easy to do, but it's a simple equation here. You've got to find ways to either bring more money in or to reduce the amount that's going out. And for you—

You've reduced the amount going out is what you said already, as much as you can.

Exactly. So now we have to focus on other things. And for you, I mean, how much is your rent?

I pay $1,690 for a one-bedroom.

Okay, that's a lot. That's a lot for a 1-bedroom for you with no—

Like, I have friends in San Antonio. I have friends in Columbus. Like, I've been looking at rent there and it's like $1,000.

Yeah, that's a big deal.

Get an extra $600 a month.

I mean, Dan, that's— we laugh about the exodus out of California, but a lot of people do it because of taxes and how expensive it is. They can't own a home, right? They're just like, we can't. And just what it feels like. And so there are places that you just say, I cannot afford to live in this city with the income I'm making. And yeah, and that's a very real adult decision. Now, is it— do you have to do that? No, you could do what you're doing. It's just, you're not gonna financially thrive 'cause you're in an expensive city. But if you say, yeah, but that's okay for the time being because of friends and family, then that's a choice you make, right? It's a— you don't get both.

Yeah.

Or you say, hey, for maybe the next 2 to 3 years, I wanna live somewhere else. see how I feel with this margin. And actually, not that money brings happiness, but the fact that you can pay your bills and breathe and enjoy life, like sometimes that's worth it to find a cost of living, a city with a cost of living that's lower than what you're experiencing right now.

Yeah.

Now, the type of work you're doing, is that, are you kind of, have you hit a ceiling with that? Or are there other opportunities in that area that can expand your income?

No, there's definitely more opportunities. So, I used to work in hospitality management, like on property, and recently moved into this role. So, it's got a work-life balance. It's nice. But so, I'm new to this like niche part of the field, but there are plenty of other opportunities as I continue to grow and develop my own skills.

So, that's another place that you can look. You know, you mentioned, it sounds like you maybe took a bit of a pay cut to have a better work-life balance. But again, that was a trade-off you made. made. And so maybe that's a trade-off that you make back and you work on-site for a while, even though you have to go in office. And even though, right, there's these things that aren't as convenient for you, but it might be worth it for you to knock out this debt. If you were able to find work in San Antonio that's on-site, lower cost of living, but you're earning more, right? Make it work. Suddenly your whole world opens up. And it's not to say that you have to do that forever, but certainly do it in the time it's gonna take you to pay off your debt.

Yeah, for a couple of years. And, um, and there's a lot of options that that brings.

Yeah.

When you're debt-free and you have margin in your life, um, yep, there's a, there's a lot more options that suddenly open up that actually could bring you some peace.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruze with Jade Warshaw, and we are answering your questions at 888-825-5225. All right, let's go to Lindsey in Chicago, Illinois. Hi, Lindsey. Welcome to the show.

Hi, guys. How are you?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Good.

So my husband and I of 14 years did all the way up to step 7. He then decided that he wanted a divorce. So my question is, how do I rebuild financial security alone with a fraction of what— I was a stay-at-home mom for 14 years. So it's like a baby deer out here in the real world for me right now. How, how can I get back to a place of comfortability and financial freedom? Because I have had to get into debt since he filed for divorce, and I'm kind of just lost right now. So I'm just looking for some insight, maybe some direction on where to go from here.

Okay, I'm so sorry.

Any kids?

We have 4 kids.

Okay, 4 kids.

And are they shared? Are they with you?

Um, they are primarily with me. Um, they, they see him occasionally. Um, last year he pulled in about $236,000. Um, we had paid off, um, over $100,000 worth of debt together and, um, had about almost $75,000 in the bank, um, when he filed for divorce. Um, I got none of that. Um, he's been gone.

What did you get?

Yeah.

What did you I walked away with nothing.

How?

The divorce is still going through. It hasn't been finalized because he's fighting me for full custody. Why did you get nothing? He has not been ordered to pay me anything at all. They just won't order him to pay me anything.

Why?

Who won't?

The court system. I've continuously asked for—

What did your attorney say?

Child support and maintenance. I don't have an attorney.

Lindsay, you need to get an attorney. I don't know the divorce law in Illinois, but majority of states you have protection of assets.

Right.

Right. Yeah.

I just honestly, I can't afford it. I make $3,300 a month. I have to ask my dad and my mom for help most months with things.

And do your dad and mom help when you ask for it? Are they willing to help?

Yeah. Okay.

So if you said to them, Mom and Dad, I got to get a lawyer because I'm about to walk out of a 14-year marriage with zero. No, nobody in your life should say that that's a good idea.

Have you signed anything, Lindsay?

No, no, I haven't. They have like, they have like an extra $100 a month. It's not— they're not wealthy people, um, um, at all whatsoever. Um, it's not like I can call them and say I need, you know, $500.

What about the home? Tell us about the home you lived in. Did he get the house too?

He, um, oh gosh, okay.

I—

we lived in an RV for 7 years.

Okay.

Um, to pay off debt and do all the hard things. Um, and then as soon as we were debt-free and it looked like life was gonna kind of be what we had been dreaming about, that's when he decided that he wanted to start a new family with someone else.

Okay.

And, um, we did not have a home. Um, we didn't have a whole lot of assets. Assets per se, just money in the bank.

Just the $75,000? No retirement?

Does he have a 401?

He does, yes, which I will be going after. We haven't even got to the mediation part. Like, he—

You're saying we? Who's we?

Um, like him and I. Like, okay, he refuses to.

So you haven't even been to mediation? What caused you to think that you weren't getting anything?

Well, I mean, just like up to this point, I'm not. like figure out how to survive in the meantime.

Okay, okay.

That's—

well, that's hopeful.

I know that eventually I will get something, but—

Okay, that's a different story.

Um, no, that's good. That's, that's hopeful. That's hopeful. I thought that for some reason you closed this up and just walked away with nothing.

But you do still need a lawyer. You do. You— we need to, we need to figure it out.

And you can pay those fees when it's all done. But, um, I would find— yes, for the sake of your children too, because you're going to want to find Fight this to make sure that he does not get full custody if that's what he's wanting. So in the meantime, what kind of work are you doing to bring in the $3,300 a month?

So I am a cake decorator. I DoorDash with my kids. I work an at-home job so that everything I do, I can do with the kids because I have them.

Okay.

How old's your youngest? 7. Okay. Are they in school? Will they be starting schools back?

They are. They just started school.

Okay. That's a good thing.

And how old's the oldest?

Yeah.

14.

Okay. Okay.

So, I think from the work hours perspective, finding something that is— I would look for something stable with good benefits for insurance purposes, you know, all of that. And I'm just thinking I mean, anything from work from home, if you're able to, even a receptionist job at a dentist office, you know what I mean? Like, anything that aligns with the kids' schedule. Yes. And if there's—

that's kind of what I do from now. I'm a medical clinician. Okay. I, yeah. And I work about 12 to 13 hours a day. I mean, depending on like what job I'm doing.

So how are you only— what are you making then? How are you bringing home only $3,300?

Well, my main job, um, is I only make $15, $16 an hour.

Okay.

Um, and then my other ones are really dependent on like the cake decorating is—

Oh yeah.

People take orders.

Yep.

Um, and, uh, DoorDash is another one that I can do.

So we've got—

I can leave my kids home for an hour, babysat by my oldest, but I, I try not to do that with them. And then taking them DoorDashing past a certain hour just really isn't safe. And so So there's a lot of, um, I think that I'm trying to do.

Finding your core job. I think we've got to start brainstorming on what we can do that can get you a higher pay than $15 an hour. If there's something out there with your background, with your skill set, uh, one thing we can send you is Ken Coleman's Find the Work You're Wired to Do. And I think that can start generating some ideas of what might be out there with your education, with your skill, with your prior work experience? Because that's gonna be a big part of this.

But—

Yeah, and again, Lindsay, I hang my hat on you. You building this second chapter of your life out of a horrific heartache. It's terrible. I'm so sorry. I mean, it is—

I—

ugh, it's just horrible, horrible. So, you are what's gonna be to change your life. But also, Lindsay, him making $236,000 a year, him paying child support.

Some alimony.

Alimony. Like, all of that is a very real thing because what you did in that household for 14 years to keep you guys afloat does have value. And states honor that to a degree. I don't know the specific divorce law in Illinois, so I'm not gonna speak out of turn here. But you need to find an attorney, Lindsay. And you may spend months after, you know, repaying or doing what you have to do. But I would fight for those kids. I would fight for what you deserve in this, because you deserve something, Lindsay.

Absolutely.

Do not— you sound like a very kind, kind person. And in these, this is battle. Like, it's so sad that it turns— divorce does, though. I'm like, it turns marriage into a business deal. And you're a business partner, Lindsay. That's how you have to think about this. And you deserve your cut of the business of what you guys created in that household. And that's gonna be helpful. But again, I hang my hat on you, number one, to change your life in the second chapter of your life. But then also, you are owed something. So, you need to fight for that, okay? So, hear us say that. And if you need anything, please call us back in that process.

Yes.

'Cause we're here for you, Lindsay. We're so, so sorry.

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One of the biggest mistakes that people make is thinking that they can skip having a will because they're too young, they're too healthy, they don't own enough. But listen, a will helps protect your family. It gives clear instructions and can keep your loved ones from having to guess what you wanted during a difficult time. So, while they're already mourning, having a will laid out makes that process so much easier. So, if you're ready to create one, go to mamabearlegal.com. And if you're not sure where to start, you can text quiz to 33789, and we can help you figure out an option that is best for your situation. But again, anyone, I would say, 18 and older, you need a will. Now, this show, we obviously love to do. It's our jobs. We have fun doing it. But one of the best parts One of my favorite parts is seeing the transformation that happens. And when people call in and they say, you know, even, hey, I just started listening a couple months ago. I'm already on Baby Step 3, and you can already start to see the progress and the change in their life. That is what we live for.

We want you guys to win with money and getting this show in front of as many people as possible so that they can have not just the hope that they can make a change, but even the plan and the tactical steps on how to do that. So, you guys, are our best marketing engine. You really, really are. So, we would love it if you would share the show. Make sure to tell your friends and family about it. Give us some comments, subscribe, all the things. It really does help us continue to grow this because we want people to learn how to live financially with a lot of peace and freedom and control. All right, let's go to the phones. And we have Geneva in Denver, Colorado. Hi, welcome to the show.

Hi, Hi, thank you for having me, guys.

Absolutely. How can we help?

Hey, okay, so I found your show a few months ago and, um, I really liked it and, um, have kind of done some of the Baby Steps out of order. So I just want some advice on how to best organize my life moving forward.

Perfect.

Yes.

Sweet.

So I'm 26 years old. Um, currently my only debt at the moment is $10,000 in student loans. About $15,000 of those loans were paid off last year while I was fully working full-time, which is really nice.

Mm-hmm.

But I recently decided to leave my job for several reasons. And now the next step is I'm wanting to go back to graduate school and hopefully go into a different industry in which I could be making some more money and be a little bit more happy and passionate about my work. And so, I had quit my full-time job. Now, I'm working part-time and making $2,300 a month. My monthly expenses are about $1,800 a month. My tuition payments for my prerequisites right now are about $2,000 a semester. And I currently have about like $7,000 in an emergency savings fund. So, my main question right now Oh, and my current student loans, they're in forbearance. That ends October 1st. So my question is, is it a wise decision to make a big move and dump a lot of my savings at my student loans right now and pay those off quicker? One more piece of the puzzle. Sorry, bear with me.

No, you're good.

My dad has really graciously offered to help me with my student loans and has been. And so he has contributed to my savings. He's committed to paying another $6,000 of these loans off.

Oh, wow. That's nice.

Just as a gift or a loan?

Yeah, a gift.

Over what course of time?

Huh?

Over what period of time is he going to pay the $6,000?

To be honest, my dad is not the type to follow schedules. It's kind of like when he gets it, he gives it. And so part of that dynamic as well is like, I'm accepting that like there may be a chance that that money doesn't come and I'll still have to pay it off. But like sometimes it does, you know, which is a blessing.

Okay, so this is kind of like a thought that counts thing that maybe you get it, maybe you don't. I would not, I would not wait around for that because it sounds like it could be a— but I listen, it's the thought that counts. So yeah, let me just get this straight. So the part-time work, are you doing part-time work because of school, or are you doing part-time work because you quit the other job and this is just the only job you have right now? now? Because it's going to be hard on $2,300.

Yeah, it's, it's really both. Like, one, I needed to make sure that I had time and a schedule that would allow me to take these prerequisites. Um, and then the other reason was because, um, you know, this part-time work was a decent gig I could get to make that much money, you know, part-time.

So, how are you paying— how are you going to pay the $2K per semester? Because you don't have any margin.

That's a great question. So the about $2K a semester, they've offered me subsidized student loans that I could take it out there.

Could you? Because you're calling us telling us that the debt is the problem.

Yeah.

Like, is it— even if it's like, should I like even— should I even like take a step back from classes now and throw all my savings?

So you may want to pause a semester, 6 months, all of this changes, Geneva. If you worked full-time—

You got to work full-time.

Yeah, you doubled. Say you, say you made $5,000 a month, you have $7,000.

More like $3,600 a month.

If you worked full-time?

Uh, oh, sorry, I just was saying my last income working full-time was about $3,600 a month.

Okay, but you're doing, you're doing part-time at $2,300.

Yes, correct.

Is there a chance to double that?

Oh yeah, I can definitely, I can definitely work more. I can add more hours. I can get another job.

So can we get to $4,600 a month. That would be the goal.

That'd be amazing.

We could. The, the strategy I guess I'm going with is that I want to invest in trying to get a better job instead of playing the rat race. But maybe I'm jumping the gun.

Well, you're not playing the rat race. You're— what we're doing here, and I'm glad that you highlighted that, what we're doing is we're prioritizing the most important things first. So what I've heard you say so far is, and these are in no particular order is it's important for you to pay off your debt. It's important for you to have a career that feels comfortable for you and that you enjoy doing and that you have passion about.

Going to school.

And it's important for you to go to school. Those are the 3 things that we care about. So now let's list them in order of priority that allows us to eventually do all 3. So eventually, yeah, the debt I do think is number one because this is just, it's going to keep growing and growing, especially as student loans, if we don't pay it off. Not that it's a ton, but let's just knock it out. So, because of that, since if we make debt the number one priority, that means we have to work. And so, it's not you joining the rat race. It's just you saying, hey, I'm gonna work full-time, and I'm gonna make $4,600 a month so I can knock out this debt. The faster I knock out the debt, the faster I can get back to school, which now has to be the number two priority.

Mm-hmm.

So, once we pay off the debt, now we can reverse everything and go, okay, now school's a priority, which means if I have to work part-time or a few less hours, I can do that. And then once school is done, now, of course, we go back to prioritizing career again, and you work your butt off in your new career.

Yeah, here's what's wild is, okay, so we're heading into September, okay? So let's say September 1st, you throw $6,000 at your debt. You keep a $1,000 emergency fund, okay? Because you got $7,700. saved. You have $4,000 left to pay. If you go and work full-time, and you still live on $1,800, which is what you said you could live on, that's $3,400 of margin. So, you basically could pay off your student loan in a month and a few weeks, okay? We'll say—

6 weeks.

Let's say, yeah, 6 weeks. We'll say 2 months, September, October, just to give you some grace. Starting in November, you save that same amount, So, you have $7,000, $8,000 if you include the $1,000 emergency fund going into January. And so, you have for sure the $2,000 paid off, which is great. You have a buffer of $5,000 for an emergency fund. And then, if you wanna cut back some hours or take night classes, you could work full-time and get these prereqs.

Absolutely.

Right, you just start to see this snowball of cash start to happen when you actually direct it and have a very detailed plan for it. So, you're, yeah, like you said, you're on the, you're going down the right road, Geneva. I wanna encourage you. You are, your mindset is not off. But when you're trying to do 6 different things, it's really hard. You have savings here, you have some debt here, you're trying to go to school here. And if you just stop and say, I'm just gonna focus on one thing at a time, I'm gonna focus on paying off this debt.

Mm-hmm.

Check. I'm gonna focus on getting my $2,000 for school for the next semester. Check. Oh, and in the same month, I have some extra cash. I'm gonna start saving for an emergency fund. And you start doing it. Then the rat race doesn't become a rat race. It actually becomes the thing that's helping you get what you want. You go to school, you start saving for after the prereqs, and you get a degree in what you actually wanna work in.

Gorgeous.

And then you go find a job, and we look up up and you're 28 and just debt-free and killing it. So that's our hope for you. So yeah, you're, you're, you have the right mindset. I would just detail it out and timeline it out so that you have a lot of clarity.

Hey guys, George Campbell here. You ever feel like you make good money and still have nothing to show afford it. You run into Target for one thing and somehow walk out $87 later with toothpaste and emotional support candles. Just me?

Okay.

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Well, here in Franklin, Tennessee, where we do the show every day from 1 to 4 Central Time, Monday through Friday, here on The Glass. And the great thing is, there's some coffee and treats, and people come from all over and watch. We have a great— we have some great people here today. So we're always grateful for that. And then over on the side, we have the Debt-Free Stage, and on it is Ben and Natalie. Welcome, you guys.

Hello.

Hi.

Hello.

Where are you guys from?

We are from Peoria, Illinois.

Okay, how far— where is that specifically?

So a couple hours south of Chicago.

Okay, awesome. So great. Well, congratulations.

Thank you.

How much debt have you guys paid off?

So we paid off $87,816 in 18 months.

Wow.

Oh my gosh. Making what kind of money during that time?

So our first year of marriage, we started out at $35,341 was our first year.

Okay.

When we started paying off debt, we started at $70,000.

Okay.

And by the time we finished, we were at $152,000.

Amazing, you guys. Oh my gosh, in 18 months. Okay, what kind of debt was the $87,000?

It was all student loans.

Yeah, yeah.

I feel it. I felt it in my bones.

Sorry, that was a big response.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, we knew Jade would like that.

Yeah, I do. I can't help it. I can't stop it.

Yep.

Amazing, you guys. Okay, so what happened 18 months ago that you all were like, we are so done?

Oh.

With these student loans?

Well, I— it's primarily my physical therapy school is what our loans were. So, we— when I went into PT school, we were kind of planning on like, once I was done, we're like, let's just pay it off right away. So—

Yeah, okay, yes. So, you guys were— you were in school, I'm assuming, when you guys got married. That's why it was $35,000. Yeah, we both were.

We got married, got home from our honeymoon, and a couple days later, she started her doctorate program.

Wow.

Okay.

Just right in.

Yes. How long did that take?

3 years.

It was 3 years. Okay, so you guys have been married, what, about 5-ish?

A little over 5, yeah.

Okay, okay, amazing. So, you guys were in school for a little bit. You came out of school, and you were like, we're gonna attack this debt. We got this new salary, we're both working, and we're just gonna go for it.

Yeah, it was, we, the first year we were working, it was just me working. I didn't go to grad school, so it was just me. And so, we just pretended that we didn't have Natalie's income. And we just said, you know what, this is all gonna go towards loans, and we'll get to enjoy it later. But we just pretended it was just my income for as long as we could, and it worked really well.

Wow.

Yes, yeah.

I mean, how did you both align that this would even be the plan? Like, what caused you both to get on the same page so quickly?

Yeah, so I mean, I grew up listening to the Dave Ramsey Show. My parents would listen to it on the radio, and so I was familiar with it. And when she started school, we were pretty set on, hey, when we're done, we're knocking this out. And it really, I didn't feel like it was hard for us to get aligned. We had a shared vision of we wanna be generous, we wanna be able to give, we don't want the stress of these loans. And it really didn't take much fighting.

Yeah, no, it didn't.

No, and I mean, it brought us together. It was awesome working towards a goal together. I mean, it was great for our marriage.

That's amazing. So, in that 18 months, what would you say was the most surprising thing about the debt-free journey? And what was the hardest part of it?

Yeah.

I would say probably the hardest was we have a lot of friends who were buying their first house or going on vacations. And we were like, we're not doing any of that because we want to get this debt done. And so, I think it was a little bit hard to feel like we were out of place or just not doing what our friends were doing.

Yes, totally.

But now we're like, we're debt-free, so we can just save and do it and not have to worry about it.

Yeah, for sure.

Making $150,000 a year and just, yeah, enjoying life with no payments.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

And what was the surprising part?

Well, yeah, we can—

I think, well, the biggest surprise was we were probably about 3 months away from paying off and we said yes to taking our foster daughter, actually.

Oh, wow.

And so, that was kind of like a big like loop for us of like, okay, we need to really get this done 'cause this is gonna—

We gotta finish.

Yeah.

You gotta finish.

Yes, and so right after we got her, we got her in December, we finished in March, and then actually in July we got a call for her sister. So now we have her sister.

Oh wow.

Oh my gosh. And so I think like that was the biggest surprise that we weren't planning, but then we were so glad we had already made all this headway on our debt. And so, now, we can just enjoy our family. And we're also adding a boy in December, so— or in October, so—

Oh, my gosh.

Oh, you're pregnant?

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

Yes.

Wow.

So, we'll have 3 kids in the span of 10 months. So, that's probably the biggest surprise.

That is a lot. That's not just a surprise. Holy smokes. Wow.

Oh, my gosh.

Well, you're prepared.

How great, though. And how amazing that you did all of just like the hard charging work before all of this. And now, financially, it's like, okay, we don't even have to think about it. Like, we— you have a great job, you know, you guys are working hard, and the money piece, it doesn't have to be a stress point because of what you guys did.

Yeah, we were talking this morning, like, we don't feel like we would have been able to say yes to our girls if we would have still had all this debt. And so, just that the Lord sustained us, got us through it, so now we can be generous with our time and feel like we can just say yes and do that has been a really big blessing for us.

Yes.

Well, I'll tell you, the foster care world, you guys are— you're doing the Lord's work. You really are.

Well, he's sustaining us. We'd be up a creek without him.

I know, but that is truly the hands and feet of Jesus in today's world. So, thank y'all for— that's just amazing. Gosh, how incredible, you guys. Okay, so, married 5 years, did this journey together. What would you tell couples out there? that maybe are newlyweds, that are younger, maybe they're coming out of school with some student loans. What would you say if they look at, like, okay, I'm gonna have this for 10 years, it is what it is, we're probably gonna get car loans, we're gonna just do the normal way with money, versus kind of this extreme other side of, like, we're actually gonna pay off debt and stay out of debt. What kind of encouragement would you give someone listening?

Yeah, I mean, just get after it. It is so freeing. I mean, being done and just, we, like Natalie said, said, it was such an easy yes taking our girls knowing we have this freedom. But if you have that crushing weight of we owe this every month and somebody else has a claim to your income, you don't have the freedom to say, yeah, I want to be outrageously generous with your time, with your money, with your talents. And it just gives you margin to be generous. Yeah, it's just, it's not worth kicking it down the road. I mean, the level of freedom, just our first day, I remember paying it off. And I mean, that whole just walking around, just felt lighter.

Yeah.

I mean, it was just, it was a Friday, we got paid, we made that final payment, and I was like, oh my gosh, Natalie, we're done. Like, 'cause I mean, every week we would get paid Friday and we would just say, okay, huge debt payment.

Wow.

And I mean, we were down to the $1,000 emergency fund and we just said, okay, we're gonna scrape by for 2 more weeks and get paid and make another payment. And I mean, it was just how little can we live on? And I mean, yeah, now getting to keep it and use it to bless and, And it's awesome. We are so thankful.

Yeah, and I think too, I would just say, like, it can be daunting and seem like a really hard thing, but because we went through this hard thing early in our marriage, we now feel like we know how to go through hard things later on, like becoming parents and all the ups and downs that come with that. And so, like, I know, well, we went through this as a team and we've practiced that muscle, and so we can do it for anything. that comes our way in our marriage with the Lord, so.

I love that, that it does.

It's so incredible.

It sustains, it does. You know, you start to build something together, and that's what's so unifying about it, when you go through the hard together. That's the story that you all have. So, incredible, you guys. Oh, absolutely amazing. All right, well, we got Ben and Natalie from Illinois. They paid off $87,816, all in student loans, in 18 months, making $70,000 at the start of this journey. and ended at $152,000. All right, you guys, count it down. Let's hear your big debt-free scream.

All right.

3, 2, 1.

We're debt-free! Oh, I love it.

Oh my gosh. So good.

I, I just love a story like that. I think it's just a reminder that if you're going through this journey, it's never just for you. Like, in the moment, it feels like, oh, this debt is crushing me, or this is, you know, and you can, your world can close in. But when you go through this journey, so many people have the ability to benefit from your sacrifice.

That's right.

And I mean, we're seeing that in spades with them and their family, and it's just, oh, incredible. I love it.

2 foster girls and a little boy on the way. I mean, just, it just unfolds, it feels like, so perfectly.

Well done, well done. Incredible.

Congratulations, Ben and Natalie. Y'all are awesome.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime, anywhere.

That's right.

It's time with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

All right, our scripture of the day is John 15:5. I am the vine, you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in You will bear much fruit. Apart from me, you can do nothing. Amen. Hallelujah.

I know, that's right.

The evidence of fruit, that's what we look for these days. Do you have the fruit of the Spirit? Peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness. That's what we need. And you know who embodied that, Jade?

Miss Dolly.

Miss Dolly. I had a quote from some guy. I don't know who it was, so I just— I'm going rogue. I just ChatGPT'd. I was like, I need a Dolly Parton quote. 'Cause this woman— and again, we're here in Nashville, and she just was a jewel to anyone and everyone. Her reputation is exactly what you believe she is. She was amazing. So, the first one that came up, that's what I'm gonna quote, 'cause I had to do it pretty quick. If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain.

That's a fact. That's what we teach every day.

It is it. It is it, that you're gonna— there's gonna be struggle. There's gonna be hard. But at the end of the day, what it creates is beauty. And that's the part that I think people miss is when you go through a season of sacrifice, you go through a season of maybe marriage-wise, you're combining accounts for the first time, and you kept it separate for so long because you fought too much. And you're like, you know what? No, we're gonna unite, and it's gonna be tough. Like, there's some tough things. And when you push through those, just like our debt-free couple, it's like, on the other side of that, you're stronger, and you see the beauty in it.

Yeah.

Yes.

And you don't always appreciate the beauty unless you have the rain. So, Dolly, we appreciate that.

Yes, I love that. That's a great quote. In my back pocket.

Yes, that's right. All right, let's go to Marius in Detroit. Hi, welcome to the show.

Yes, hi there. How are y'all doing?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Good to hear. Thank you so much. Yep, so I'm 25 years old. I'm in a bad financial situation right now, but there might be a way out. So maybe you guys could help me out with that. So let me lay that out for y'all really quick.

Mm-hmm.

So I have $9,000 right now in credit card debt. I'm a bunch— sorry, I'm behind on a bunch of those payments. I have a car payment as well. I still owe $21,000 on my car and the car payment is $420 a month. My credit score is not good at all. It's 480. And I have been self-employed for the last few years. So it went very well at one point and then took a turn for the worst.

the last year or so.

So I have kind of played around with the idea of bankruptcy, but this is where there could be a way out instead of that. So I've got a buddy that basically I talked to him, he laid out all the details for me. He could get me a job that is basically ready for me to start in 2 weeks. They'll be paying $6,000 a month salary position.

Amazing.

So my question to you guys is, yes, thank you so much. I'm really excited about it. So my question is, With that $6,000 coming in every single month, so I have the car payment, which I still owe $21,000 on, and I have the $9,000, the credit card debt payment. How do you guys think I should juggle that? If I should kind of like save up and pay it all like in bulk, or if bankruptcy is still on the table, or like, what do you guys think?

Well, I definitely don't think that bankruptcy should be on the table for you because the solution is just income. And you don't need a massive income. You just need You need an average income would really solve this. And it's just you, or is there kids? Is there a wife, girlfriend? Is there anybody else in the picture we need to know about?

No, ma'am, it is just me.

Okay.

And I'm not renting out my own apartment or anything. I'm staying with some family right now.

Staying with family.

I don't have to pay rent.

Okay, I have 2 questions real quick. One, has the credit cards gone to collections yet?

Yes, I believe so.

One of them has.

They have? Okay, okay. And then the car, how much is the car?

If you sold it, how much could you get So I did receive a, like, basically cash, like, ran off before, but it's less than what I owe. I think it was $17,000 or $18,000.

That's not bad.

Yeah. Was that from Kelley Blue Book or who? What was that from?

That was— I brought it into, I think it was Echo Park or Carvana, like one of those where you could, like, trade your car in. And that's what they told me.

That's good because that means if you did a private sale, you'd break even.

Yeah, you may be able to just— yep, exactly. You may be able to get— okay, just get that. And so I'm wondering probably what I would do, because you're gonna feel that $420 a lot. So, I think my goals would be, and you can kind of do all this simultaneously, I would be contacting the creditors or the collection, whoever has the debt on the credit card. And you usually can, it may take a couple of calls, but you can sometimes settle with them if you have the cash. So, I think I would have a goal probably in the next few months.

Mm-hmm.

Once you start the $6,000 job, I mean, can you live off of $2,000 a month?

Yes, I can. Because the only real expense I have is that car payment, really.

Okay, amazing. So, let's just go crazy and let's say $5,000.

I don't know. All your income except your food.

Yeah, I mean, like, seriously, let's just go just for the heck of it, okay? So, what I would do is I would save that. I would call the credit card companies in 30 days and say, hey, I have $2,500. I have $3,000.

I could settle with you today.

And over and over and over and over again. And hopefully, at some point, they're gonna make you an offer, and you're like, that's great. And get it in writing.

Yep.

Credit card is done, okay? So, check. The next month, I would save another $5,000, okay? And at the same time, be looking to sell this $21,000 car for around $21,000. If you're short $1,000 or $2,000, that's okay, 'cause you're gonna have it, 'cause you're gonna have extra $5,000 coming in. So, do that, and then save up some money. and go buy a $5,000 car. Like, you can do all of this in 3 months.

Very short time.

A really short time. So, bankruptcy's not even— It's not even close. Not even in your universe. So, I wouldn't even consider that.

You're just feeling overwhelmed. And, you know, you're young, you're 25, and you've just like, the weight of your decisions just hit you like a ton of bricks, I think. And you're realizing, I can't keep going on like this. And so, it's good that that happened. That's how we learn. And everybody hits that point financially, unless you were brought up, well, you know, like our debt-free scream, unless you were brought up in the ways of Dave Ramsey.

Right, right.

That's how we learn. And so, I don't want you to beat yourself up about it or spend much more time, but I do want you to pivot hard out of this and do exactly what Rachel said. Because if you mess around with this, it's gonna stay on you, right? Every time you make that $420 car payment, things get harder and harder for you. for you. So the faster that you do this, it is, like I said, going from one direction completely to the other. And you're going to feel the whiplash of that when you get that first paycheck and it's all going onto the debt. I do want to ask about that. How solid is that job? Like, is this, this is not just a buddy being like, yeah, man, I got something for you. Or is this like a legit, real deal, not a, you know, scam thing?

Right. Yeah, no, yeah, that's, that's definitely an important factor. And yes, it is legit. It is for a fiber optics company. It basically They do like underground drilling.

Okay.

And they need someone kind of like on the back end in the office, because I've had jobs like that, like basically doing all the invoices, like managing crews, things like that, paperwork.

And you have experience in that?

Yes, ma'am, I do.

Okay, good, good, good. I love that. I'm glad that you got that.

I think this is great. I mean, honestly, as you call in, you're like, I'm behind on credit cards, I got this car, I don't know what to do. I'm self-employed. You feel like you haven't had consistent income. And literally, In the next 3 months, your debt could be gone. You could look up in April, Marcus, and you could have $20,000 saved in an emergency fund.

Yeah, why wouldn't you?

And then you go down the Baby Steps. You've paid off your debt. You have an emergency fund. You start investing 15% of your income into retirement. And what's wild about all of this is when you actually like run the numbers out, and let's just say you threw $1,000 a month, okay, of investing, which is a little bit more probably than, um, at that point what we recommend. But let's just do it for fun. 25 to 67, Marcus, if you just, if you made that your habit, you'd have $10.7 million sitting in investments at 67.

Yeah.

Right? And let's say you're like, I don't want 67, give me 59. All right, let's see what 59-year-old Marcus, $4.4 million. That's great. You know what I mean? Like it's just, it is shifting from the mindset of, oh, I'm going to be paying people to I'm going to pay myself. And that's, that to me always is so motivating.

Absolutely.

Don't make the banks rich, Marcus. I can't keep calling you Marcus. Marius.

Marius.

I'm sorry, I keep calling you Marcus. Marius. I apologize. I apologize. But for real, like, stop making other people wealthy. These credit card companies and car companies. I'm like, no, you, you can do this. So, take advantage for sure of this opportunity, of this job. And then also, you know, start dreaming about what 28, 30-year-old Marius wants to be, right? From a career standpoint.

And this should be a turning point It's a turning point for you, not just in, I'm paying off my debt, but it's a new lifestyle change. Like, who you are has changed. You're no longer— we say over here, the borrower is slave to the lender. And you're choosing a new identity to be a person that doesn't borrow money from this point on.

And the power of what happens when you get your income back.

Yeah, absolutely. Incredible.

Awesome. Well, great hour, Jade. Always fun hosting with you. Thanks to everyone in the booth and our wonderful audience that's here today. There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.