Transcript of Progress Requires Discipline

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Delony. We're gonna be chopping it up for the next couple hours, taking calls about your life and money. If you wanna get involved, the number's 888-825-5225. Brittany from New York is on the line. Hey, Brittany, how can John and I help out today?

Hey, how are ya?

We're doing good.

Awesome. So I just have a quick question. I have about $20,000 saved. I have $34,000 in debt. I had a couple contractors come into my home that I own outright and say that it's not structurally sound. And I'm wondering if I should Use the $20,000 for a down payment for a mortgage, or if I should use equity on my loan and pay the debt off with the $20,000.

Tell me what your goals were. Were you in the market for a house before you found out about your foundation, or were—

I was not.

Okay.

What's— so the structural damage is so bad that you're thinking there's no way to ever fix this, and even if they do, I won't feel good about it?

Um, yeah, that's pretty much it. But also, it would take almost as much money to fix it as it would to finance. So what I'm going to look at is putting a new house, like, right on my land.

That's what you want to do? You want to buy— you want to leave this house as it is, build another house on your current land? Did I understand that?

Yep.

Okay. What's— tell me the value of what you have. Like, how many acres is it? Tell me all that. What's the current house worth?

Oh, sure. Right now it's 1.99 acres, so just under 2. And the house now is assessed for $72,000.

Got you. And it would cost $72,000 to fix it?

They basically said that they're really not going to— they're not even comfortable putting windows in. That's what the contractor came for, was to change out my windows. It's very old. It was built in 1980. Uh-huh.

Wow.

Okay, so you leave that property there, it just becomes what, vacant? Or are you gonna— like, what's the plan? No one else is gonna buy it?

Demolish it. Yep, we would demolish that but have the new house right on the land.

Okay, and the new house will cost how much?

Um, turnkey, they said $122,000. $72,000.

So I just, I go back to this and I want to make sure I'm not missing it. I'm looking at John's eyes through the camera too. And I think he's got the same look as me. You're okay with completely walking away from a $72,000 home, that's something you paid for that's worth $72,000 and just going, you want to know what? I'm done. I'm not going to do anything to salvage this. I'm just starting fresh.

I had 2 contractors come in and look and they said that it would be about $90,000 to $100,000 to fix everything that was wrong with it, from the foundation to the windows to my front door to the moisture that's being let in.

Have you—

how long have you lived in this house?

Um, so we've lived in it my, my whole life and I'm 31.

Okay, and what'd you buy it for? What did you put into this house? How much money?

Did somebody give it to you?

Yeah. Uh, yeah, so we got in a car accident. My dad used my settlement to buy the house, the home.

Okay, and what did he buy it for since it was your settlement money?

How much did he— He bought it for $25,000.

Okay, so the, the 2 acres is worth that?

Yes.

I mean, at least, right? And what kind of home— this isn't a judgment question, this is just A, like, a reality question. What kind of home are you going to build for $120 grand?

So they call it stick-built. It's a modular.

So we're trading the mobile home. The mobile home is the one with all the issues and you're building a modular home instead.

Understood.

Okay.

Okay. And let me just ask, the mobile home, Since it's mobile, can it be sold to someone else?

I never thought of that.

Even for scrap?

Can it be moved off the lot and given or sold to someone else?

Yes, it could.

Okay, so let's start there. We're not going to just demolish it and leave every dollar on the table.

$2,500 for the trailer.

Yes.

I don't know what that stuff's worth.

Oh, that's true. I didn't even think of that.

Okay, I love the direction we're going. So let's make that call and say, hey, we don't want to live in this mobile home anymore. It's not worth the fix, but let's Sell it for parts, sell it for pieces. Whoever wants to take it off the lot can take it. And then I just want to make sure that you're making a good choice with the next house, right, of what it is.

Yeah, we've looked around the area, maybe like 7 or 8 different, um, what they're called is like the manufacturer retailing, and this one was like the nicest built, um, for the value because I am a single mom.

Okay.

So I'm not—

My concern for you is that you end up in the exact same spot you're in.

Yeah, I agree with John. I wonder what's keeping you on this exact land, on this exact lot. Is there a better housing opportunity out there for you?

Everything around our area is, I would say, I've looked at different houses about $210,000 plus, and that's, they're still fixer-uppers.

But they're freestanding and they're what I'll call traditional homes, right?

Yes.

I, I'm worried that you're gonna buy, you're gonna build a modular home for $120,000 and the day you get handed the keys, it's gonna start going down in value.

Yes.

And if that's—

Yeah, I didn't think of that.

If that's the case, because, because those, those type of homes generally go down in value. And so, I, I would rather you rent a place that you can walk away from, that somebody else is responsible for all the repairs and everything.

Yes.

It too, you're, you're, you're handing money to somebody else and you're not quote unquote building equity. But the moment you put $125,000 into this new mobile, this new modular home, it's gonna be going down in value too. And so I'd rather you exchange.

Okay.

I'd, I'd rather you not be chained to something going down in value. If something's gonna, It's not— renting is not going down in value, but I'd rather you at least retain your autonomy, your freedom. Somebody else come fix that sink. It's their sink.

And let's talk about the other part of what John is saying, which I love his idea because then it frees you up. If you go somewhere in town and rent for a while with your kid or your kids, now you can have the $20,000 to clear up your debt and you can start this whole thing fresh and go, okay, I'm going to take $19,000 of this I'm gonna pay off the debt that I have, that along with some extra cash from working extra.

I'm gonna sell the trailer and then we're gonna be debt-free.

I'm gonna sell the trailer. I'll be totally debt-free. And I may be renting, but I don't have the extra expense of keeping up land and keeping up a roof and the windows and the AC. And I can spend this time really saving up a down payment for something that's a traditional house that goes up in value and I earn equity in it when I buy it. And I love that for you because that gives you so much stability. 'Cause I think that's what you're reaching for is like, the next safe space. And I think that's why you're moving towards it so quickly. But I actually, I agree with John.

And, and, and, and, okay, maybe hang onto your land if you've got paid-for dirt, 2 acres in, in New York, maybe keep it if you can. Like, I'm not saying you have to go run and sell it.

It's probably, yeah, I definitely would hold onto the land because I love the location.

Yeah, that's awesome.

That's another thing that's keeping me here is my girls can go out and ride their four-wheelers and we don't have neighbors, you know, cutting.

All of that.

Incredible.

But choose freedom. Don't choose yet another chain and another anchor. Choose freedom. And that's gonna look different than the world tells us.

Yeah. Brittany, thank you for the call and thank you for taking the time to walk through those details with us because we want you to move from this place of feeling insecurity with your home. Your home is supposed to be a safe space for you. And I think that you were trying to get there and it was really nice to walk with you to get you to that safe space. So thank you for sharing.

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All right.

All right, back to the phone lines we go. We got Brian, who's in Flint, Michigan. Hey Brian, how can John and I help?

Yeah, we had a question for you. When I was younger, I stumbled upon Dave Ramsey, learned about them. Thank you very much for all of the advice that I've been given through reading the books and things over the years. Now I've turned 50, and I feel like I'm kind of out of direction if I just kind of keep doing what I'm doing, which is kind of on cruise control, not really at the moment actively involved in my retirement, or should I get more serious and be very aggressive, probably retire in another 10 or 15 years and just make sure I'm set up for the right path forward here.

I love that question. What happens? What is the state of affairs as it sits today?

Okay. So, I have a new house that I built 2 years ago. It's fully paid off. I've got about $2.5 million in retirement accounts. I've got a couple hundred thousand in savings. And just, they're not really doing anything. It's just sitting there. It's just, I'm not really actively watching it doing anything.

It's invested, isn't it?

Yeah, it's invested.

What's the rate of return? What are you getting on it every year?

Uh, it's usually around about 11 or 12%.

Oh, amazing. What, what more can you ask for?

Brian, what do you— yeah, what do you— you're a multi-millionaire with a paid-off house.

You, you're winning. I don't know. You're right. It sounds that way, but it doesn't feel that way. I don't know if that's weird.

What does that mean? Paint me a picture of it doesn't feel that way.

Well, I got 4 kids, 2 are in college. Everything's going well, but I just always feel that, okay, well, I feel that, you know, things are okay, you know, as far as paying bills, things like that, putting money away. But I'm just not really actively doing anything. If I should be working with an advisor or doing something different or just, you know, it's working and just keep doing what works and not change anything.

I think it's almost like you don't believe that. It's almost like you don't believe That you've achieved this thing that most people never achieve.

I grew up— it's true, I grew up very poor.

And I was about to ask you that question.

My early part of my life.

I was about to ask you that question because you have a GPS pin in your nervous system that said that— that remembers what it's like to not know if you're gonna have grocery money. And yeah, so I want you to think of it this way. Every time you get, you look at that account and you get nervous, or one of your kids is like, hey dad, I need another $50. And you, your, your chest seizes up on you even though you have a couple of million dollars just burning money behind you. It just, just growing behind you.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I want you to make a fist and put it in the middle of your chest and say, thank you for trying to take care of me to your body. Just make peace with it. It has a lived experience of we may not have lights this month and feel that thing and then go on and keep doing the next right thing, which you're doing. The pro— what you're gonna get yourself into is you're gonna start chasing a feeling, a sensation, and that's when people end up way over their skis doing crypto stuff. Like they, they start seeking to feel alive in their own skin by Playing dumb games with money. And there's a jillion people out there who want to sell you something and try to take— are happy to take your money in a panic state, in a state of searching for a feeling. What you don't have a psychology for is peace. Enough, right?

Okay.

Okay.

Let me ask you this. You're 50, you said?

Yeah, I just turned 50.

All right, um, how old is your young— youngest child?

Uh, he's 12.

12. Okay, so you have a kid in college and a kid in 12?

Yeah, 2, 2 in college now and 2 in middle school.

So nice, nice. So I want you— so that's 8 years. Awesome. Yeah, I want you to sit down. Are you still married?

Yeah. Yep.

Do you and your spouse still married a long time? You still like each other?

Yeah. Yeah.

That's a real question.

Okay. No, I, I mean, I'm not, I'm not playing. I wouldn't have a job if everybody who'd been married a long time still liked each other. I want you and your wife, I want you and your wife, I want you to do the planning. That means I want you to get the babysitters. I want, or if they're 12 and they're old enough and they won't burn the house down, they can stay. Great. I want you to get reservations somewhere and I want you to take your wife out and I just want y'all to have the nicest, funnest, warmest time dreaming about the day you both turn 60.

Okay.

What do you want that to feel like? Where do y'all wanna be? 'Cause y'all gonna be empty nesters.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Right.

And so what do you, what do you want that reality to, to, to be? And then you simply reverse engineer it. 'Cause I, what I hear is, Um, mm-hmm. Is a 50-year-old man who's doing everything right, but is slowly starting to lose, lose the life in his own skin. And so, yeah, for, for you at 50, what hobbies do you have? What friends are you doing? What adventures are you going on? What's where, what wild things are you waking your, your 12-year-olds up and taking 'em for ice cream at 9 o'clock after they're already in bed? Like what, what rambunctious, yeah, wild things are you and your wife doing when the kids are in bed? Like, Where are you getting life from? Because I don't want you to go searching for that excitement, that, that sense of vibrancy through playing with your money. 'Cause bro, you are winning as much as anyone could be winning these days. You are on the path.

Okay. That's good to hear. That's, I think I needed that. So, and that advice is fantastic. So thank you very much.

That's good.

And I just, yeah, go ahead. I definitely needed that. No, I said I definitely needed that because I feel that you're right. Maybe I start chasing or doing Or trying something and make a big mistake. And that's what I was worried could happen if I didn't.

Yeah, it's okay to be done in one area and tie a bow on it and move on to the next thing and be like, all right, I did that. And be done with it and move on. And honestly, Brian, you know, you're not alone in this. I think that there's certain people who walk the plan that we teach. They walk through the 7 Baby Steps and they really love the feeling of being told who they are. You gain kind of an identity. when you start walking the Baby Steps. It's like, okay, I'm in Baby Step 2. I am, I am Baby Step 4. I am building wealth. And you're starting to get an identity from that. It makes you feel like every morning you get a purpose of what you're doing with your money. And then you hit Baby Step 7 and it's like, I'm looking around for somebody to tell me what my next step is. I'm looking around to see what the next thing is. Where's my next identity? Ramsey, what do I need to do? Y'all are looking at us.

You're all grown up now, man. You get to, you get to choose.

Well, you know what? Bat this around with me because I will say this, Brian and John, I, I've been thinking about this because I get this, we get this call a lot. And I do think there are some things practically that you can do and that you should be doing. Number one, you've won with money. You should find someone to teach and mentor.

Yeah.

You need to find somebody to pass this information down to and be active in that. We have Financial Peace University. You can teach that, you can lead that, you can coordinate that class. I also think, like John said, you need to go somewhere. You need to travel.

Have some fun.

Go someplace you've never gone before. And by the way, these are all things that you wash, rinse, and repeat. You do it once, you turn around, and do it again so it never ends. Travel somewhere new. You've got the money. You should be going someplace brand new every year for sure. Now's the time I think you should be prioritizing your health. If you've gone through life— Health is wealth. Yes, thank you. And you haven't been prioritizing your physical health, your mental health, your relational health, let's start focusing on that. That's a huge— your spiritual health.

Get your blood work done.

Yes.

Go see who you need to see.

Yes.

We're in a little sliver of history when there's some of the most amazing specialists on certain things.

Absolutely.

Go see the folks, man, so that when you're 60, when you're 70, If one of the things you dream about is, I wanna go hiking.

Yes, you can do it.

I'm gonna get my knees and my hips and my weight and my heart right so that when I'm 70, I can roll around with my grandkids and me and your mom, we're going off to the woods, right?

Yeah, and you go to another great point, which a lot of people hit the point where he is 50 years old, which is also the time kids are going off to college and you're looking at your spouse going, who the heck are you?

I don't know who you are anymore.

Yes.

That's right.

That's a wonderful time to really lean in with your spouse and on that relational kind of health tip. So, there's so many things that you can do other thing on my list is, uh, start defining your legacy.

Yeah.

Like, what is, what do you want people to say about you when you're off this earth? And let's start investing and pouring into that with intentionality.

Let, let me throw this out there, and this is for Brian and those of us who grew up with not very much. It's easy to want our kids to quote unquote never feel what we felt, and that becomes an undefined goal. And we've taken calls where people have $20 million and it doesn't feel like enough. So get a dollar amount that you think in your head you want to leave to your kids one day, and when you hit that line, breathe.

That's it.

That's it. That's the word enough. You're good. You're doing a great job, Brian.

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Hi, uh, thank you guys for having me. First off, I appreciate it.

Yeah, you got it, man. What's up?

So, um, I'm having a little bit of a dilemma here. I'm kind of in the middle. My parents are going through a divorce and my dad, uh, actually, uh, both of his parents passed away unfortunately in this process and, um, He ran into a large sum of money, about $1 million. And my mom is pretty much completely flat broke. Um, they're currently living together, uh, in their, their house. They only owe about $20,000 on it. Um, and they, they also have my little brother who's, uh, just about to turn 13. So that kind of complicates things a little bit. Um, I'm just trying to figure out how I can get it to where Both of them end up in a better financial situation and can kind of move on from all this, because right now they're just kind of playing house, and my mom has no real plan as to try to get out, and I can't really convince her to get her— get the wheels rolling, I guess.

Well, let me tell you, Sam, here's the thing. You've got one move and one move only, and that is to get out of the middle of this.

How old are you, Sam?

I'm 27.

Okay.

They, they've made it clear through their actions they don't want your opinion. They don't care really what you have to say about stuff, and they're grown-ups. And even if they're acting like children, they're doing what they're doing. You get to decide who you're going to be. But you, you 27-year-olds don't just find themselves in the middle of their parents' divorce. They get dragged into the middle of it. And your job as a 27-year-old is to stand up strong and firm and say, I love both of you. You're both my mom and dad. I'm not getting in the middle of y'all throwing crayons at each other in the sandbox.

Yeah, I've— and I'm a lot more on my dad's side here, but I think more than anything, I'm just trying to—

I don't know.

I'm trying to figure out how to get it to where—

You can't.

My dad really just listens to me.

He won't. He won't. Unless you look him in the eye and say, Dad, I love you and I care about you, and I can see this situation from a different perspective. If you want my perspective, I, I'm, I'm willing to give it to you. But you constantly badgering your dad, hey, you, you need to be and you should be— oh, you're driving a wedge between y'all's relationship when really what he needs more than anything is Does he have good friends, your dad?

Oh yeah, he's got, he's got a lot of good friends, and they all pretty much have the same opinion as I do. It's just, it's, I guess it's hard after 40 years of them being together to get him to stop putting so much trust and faith in my mom, especially since she's the reason that they're getting divorced.

Why are they getting divorced?

Yeah, why are they? I wanted to ask that too.

It's, it's infidelity issues. My mom got with a homeless guy who's on drugs and made it a whole big thing, so But she put me in the middle of that as well. I was the one that figured out about it and had to break the news to my dad because she wouldn't do it herself.

And you want to know what? And John can stop me at any point because he really is the, the expert here. But you probably have your own things that you need to sort out with all of this. I don't know that you do have the clarity to tell anybody what they should or shouldn't do, because this is affecting you in your own unique way. And you might spend more of your time Sorting yourself through how you're mentally dealing with all of this.

And that's, I think Jade's exactly right. And that starts with you taking ownership. Here's what ownership sounds like in this situation. Not my mom dragged me into this. It is, I had to go be the adult. I chose to go be the adult and tell the truth in my home. Not my mom made me do— nope. I'm a 27, 26, 25-year-old man, whenever, however old you were when this happened. And I had to be the adult. I had to be the person of integrity. in a really messy situation. That was my decision.

Yeah.

Right. And I want you to start taking ownership, but you also have to understand how, I hate to say it like this, how powerless you are. Your dad filed for divorce, but then he's letting her live there.

Uh, she, she actually filed for divorce.

Okay. So she filed for divorce and he's letting her stay. You don't get a vote in that. And the mo— more you try to like, get in on their politics, man. It's just you're, you're just going to get covered in mud, too.

Are you still living in the house or no?

No, I have my own home. I have my own family.

Okay.

It's just, you know.

So are you mostly worried about your little brother? You didn't mention him again. Is he your biggest concern here?

I would say, I would say my biggest concern is just my, my dad's well-being. I just think that he's getting taken for a ride. And I think that he's just going to be, you know, like I said, too complacent and all of this and just kind of let my mom bank off it for as long as it takes until—

Sam, he's not getting taken for a ride. He's driving.

Yeah, yeah, he's driving.

You can be upset with your dad for the direction he's choosing to drive. You can be upset with him for who he's choosing to allow into the car, but he's driving. And there's fewer things in the world more heartbreaking than family members, people we love and care about, making choices that we can see are actively destroying them from the inside out, and they simply don't want our opinions on it, or they don't want our help on it. It makes us feel powerless.

And I've, I've, I've tried all the help I can get. I mean, I've been trying to search for a house for my dad. We've been trying to help him.

He doesn't want one. He doesn't want one, Sam.

Not, not bad enough. No, no, not—

I, I worry. I actually worry for you, Sam, that if you keep meddling in this, it's going to cause resentment towards your dad because you're inserting, uh, behaviors that you want him to do. He's not doing them. And then you're gonna walk away from this pissed at your mom and pissed at your dad. So I would love for you to take John's advice, which is, hey, I'm gonna remove myself from this triangle of drama. I'm gonna take myself out of it, and I'm just going to be the adult, and I'm gonna say, this is between you guys. I love you both. I hope you work it out. And you're gonna tell your little brother, hey, man, if you just need to get away from this sometimes, come to my house.

I'll come pick you up.

And I really do think, I mean, those are the steps that I would take. What would you do, Jon?

Exactly that. And Sam, this is one more complicating thing. I'm not gonna ask you this 'cause I don't wanna put you on the spot, okay? I would have a hard time in your— if I was you in your situation, not also looking at that million-dollar inheritance, thinking some of that should distill down to me someday. And I don't want my mom to get any of it because of what she's done to the family. You have to back yourself out of that too and say that's his money.

She's already excluded for sure.

Do what?

She's already excluded for sure because they filed for divorce before, uh, either of his parents passed away. So we've already worked out with the lawyer.

Yeah, but dad might just write her a big old check.

Yeah, he can still do that.

Because it's his money.

I honestly, that's what I was kind of pushing him to do at first, was to just buy her out of the house and be done, because she wants to stay in the house, but she doesn't have the money to refinance. So that's why we're just kind of stuck. I mean, they are kind of stuck in the middle right now.

There you go.

That's good.

They are. Begin to change your language.

They are.

My dad is choosing to allow these things to continue.

You're right, 100%.

And that can break your— there's an old proverb, and it's not out of the Bible, but it's an ancient proverb. It says, I finally sat down And confronted my anger, and she took off her mask and revealed herself as grief. I'm sad that my mom blew up our family. I'm sad that she's taken, like, trying to take dad for everything. I'm sad that my dad has just curled up in a ball. I'm sad that my 12-year-old little brother's living in all of this mess. I'm just heartbroken by all of it. And I'm out of the triangulation game. I'm out of the— I'm not saying we anymore. I'm saying, that's my dad, that's my mom, that's the choices they're making. And as for me and my household, here's who we are going to be, because that's what you can control, man. Yeah, you, you— your job is to get out of that and tell both your parents, and to whatever degree is honest, I'm on, I'm on both your sides. Or, Mom, I'm not on your side at all.

Please don't talk to me about this.

Yeah, but I'm not having this conversation with you anymore. Yep, you know where I stand on it.

Uh, we're rooting for you, Sam. We believe in you. You can do this, bud.

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Well, you may have noticed that a lot of the advice we give is based on a proven plan here, our Ramsey Plan. It's based on 7 Baby Steps that you probably have heard us walk through on the show. And we do that because we know that that is the turning point for a lot of people. They're looking for an easy way to really get control of their life and their money. And we found that the Baby Steps have worked for over 30 years. So, if you're new to The Ramsey Show, every answer you hear is gonna be rooted in those 7 steps. So, take a few minutes to learn that plan, and you'll get a whole lot more out of every episode. Alright, let's go to Nick, who's in Cincinnati, Ohio. Hey, Nick!

Hi, guys! How are you doing?

Doing great!

How are you? I'm doing fantastic! It's great to be on!

Alright, let us know what's going on. How can we help?

Yeah, thanks! My question is pretty simple. How much is it okay to spend on a house based on the home's value? In terms of remodeling, updating, stuff like that.

I love that question. So tell us a little bit about the home. Tell us what it's worth, what's the equity in it, and tell us what you want to do to it.

Yeah. So we are on Baby Step 7, which is a huge blessing. And it's about, I mean, probably as is, it might be a little bit less, but we'll just say $200,000 to make it easy. And then our—

Did you say $280,000?

No, $200,000.

Oh, $200,000. Thank you.

Uh-huh. Yes, ma'am. Yeah. And then we're under contract for about $27,000 to add a bathroom and update the electrical box. But I could probably easily spend another $60,000 updating things that need to— like a sidewalk that needs to be updated, as well as some other things to make some space, to make like the basement more livable.

Okay. So you could see putting a total of $90,000 into this house. between the bathroom and the other upgrades?

Yeah, I mean, potentially, yes.

Okay. Have you, are, it sounds like you named off of some, not, you named off some of them. We got bathroom, we've got basement upgrades. These are the types of things that my guess would be if you were looking to sell it, they're upgrades that people are going to want to see in your neighborhood. So there's part of it that you could speak to a realtor. You could, you know, look at one of our—

Get comps, yeah.

Yeah, and just see in our area, what are people paying for?

for?

Do they want the upgraded bathroom? Do they care that the basement isn't finished? And kind of get some numbers on that. But aside from the numbers, I, I tend to be along the lines of, if you're in this house, and you can afford it, and you want the house to be the way that you like it, to a reasonable extent, I think you can say, if I don't get every single penny out of this, I think I might be okay. For instance, if you were saying, I want to put a pool in the house, you might not get that money back. But if your family really wants and enjoys the pool, and you're okay, to Dave's point of taking that money and kind of burning it in the middle of a downturn. Yeah, it's okay, right?

Yeah. And I'm not— we're not millionaires yet like we hope to be. I think it's just I was looking at some, like, my own comps. Like, I know a house very similar to ours that had an upgraded basement sold for about $240,000, but that might be the ceiling of the street. So it's like, if we do spend about $90,000, I bet we probably have about $40,000 that we Putting in the middle of the living room and watching burn.

Yeah.

It doesn't always feel like that might be the best, best way. So I'm not sure.

I, I, I will tell you, um, I did a mix of what Jade and you just said. I just did a whole bunch of work at my house. I started back in May. In fact, I just, just today got a text from Winston saying it's, it's finally finished. And I had comps pulled. So I had a Ramsey Trusted real estate person that I work with all the time. She pulled the comps just so I could make sure I'm not going bananas.

Mm-hmm.

And Me and my wife sat down and we put what we wanted into this place because we want this place to be our place for a long time.

Even if it doesn't ROI.

Because we wanna have people out there. And my wife is an avid, avid gardener. And so I wanted her to have the best gardening space on the planet. And so some of it, it may not ROI. And at this point I don't care cuz I didn't go bananas. I did have, like, I, I wasn't just going in there blind. I did have comps. And I, I have a different situation cuz out in the woods where I live, a couple people have sold their places and people have put compounds back there. And so I had a lot of room to play with, but I, I didn't look after that. I, I was more interested in what kind of life do me and my wife want to have? And because of the last 20 years worth of financial sacrifices, we're at this point now where we can have that conversation. But I, I probably would not put $200,000, I, I probably wouldn't burn $50,000 on a $240,000 house. And so if you say, I really want a basement cuz we like to have people over and we, that's, I, I need us, I need some space. I need a bathroom because grandma's always staying with us and my parents are gonna move in with us.

That's money well spent. And it may be, you're always just gonna look at that dumb sidewalk and it's gonna drive you crazy.

But, or you might look at the house and say, okay, I'm looking, $27,000 bathroom. That makes sense. But when I really start adding up all the things things that I think would make this house the house we like, you guys might decide maybe you need a different house. Because I don't want to, to Jade and John's point, I don't want to burn $70,000 in my living room. I want to take that money and put it towards another house that I'd get the equity in.

Yeah. And that's really the rub. I think it comes down to either putting money into this house or upgrading. So we have 3 kids, And we're very tight. And so I think when we look at getting another house and we start looking at the prices, it's like, if we really want to get something that's better, that's going to have the things that we want, we're looking at $400,000. And so at least right now, we would have to get a mortgage. And I think going back, it would feel like we're going backwards. And it's like, okay, well—

Well, not necessarily. Because you've got the $200,000 already, give or take, obviously, fees and everything, if you were to sell the house. And you were ready to put $90,000 into this house. So, So you're, you know, a third of the way there. You're 3 quarters of the way there.

Oh, that is true.

You're right there.

So what if you said, hey, this year, instead of doing these renos that we thought we were going to do all year, let's just cash, like stack up as much cash as we can. And by the way, I'm assuming you already had the, the $87,000 ready to go. If you didn't, then you thought you were just going to save it in cash flow as you went. That does change it slightly. But even if you took 2 years, And said, we're just going to stack up a bunch of money and do this move. You could. And if you took a small mortgage, it wouldn't be the end of the road. You could totally do that.

But you were about to spend, I mean, you're about to have a total in of $390,000 on this house. I'm sorry, $290,000 on this house.

Well, it'd be, yeah. So it's $200,000 now and I'd probably spend about $90,000 to get everything done.

So, you're 3/4 there to a $400,000 house.

Yeah, there you go.

Just some things to think about. I think you and your wife have more conversations to have. And I don't think you're in a rush, but there is something to be said. I mean, it was your initial question, which is how much over do you want to go? If you kind of know, hey, the neighborhood's topping out at $240,000, $250,000. If you're building this house up to $300,000, I don't know, you said you're not Baby Steps millionaires yet, $50,000 to burn is a lot of money.

It's a ton of money.

And I don't know, because I don't know your situation, but it does sound like it might be time to look for a house where you're not so tight and it doesn't require as much non-ROI money to make it what you want it to be.

But I will also shout you out for a bathroom improvement, a new electrical box, a finished basement. Those are all Generally speaking, high ROI things you can do to a house.

Yes.

It's not like you're carving ornate owls in the columns in the front of the house, you know what I mean? So like the things you're doing are wise, like a sidewalk that, that people don't trip on.

All the stuff you gotta do that.

All the stuff you're saying is wise. It's just if your neighborhood, if you're capped in that neighborhood, man, um, just make a wise choice there. And, and once you get to that Baby Step 7 situation and you to, like she, Jade said, you wanna put a pool back there, put a, enjoy a pool, man. That's just a choice y'all are gonna make.

Why not?

Go ahead.

I said, why not? Yeah.

Yeah.

Why not?

Exactly.

Well, definitely if you haven't already, you can check out one of our Ramsey Real Estate Pros. Just give 'em a call and say, hey, here's what I'm thinking. They can give you comps in your area. And really for anybody who's thinking about getting into the market, make sure you check out our real estate hub. You can find out so much there. Median list prices, total homes for sale on the market in your area. And you can even plug in your specific area, type it in, and it'll let you know what's going on. So that's a really, really, really great value. All right, John, I love a question from the interweb. I love a question. What did you say to me?

Sure.

I'm gonna Zander up. Yeah, go for it.

What are you asking me to do, Kelly? Y'all don't know, Kelly the producer will be in my ear and I'm like, what are Kelly, what is it that you want to say?

She's like, John's making a weird face again.

I know. I was going to read a question from the community, but we don't have time to do that. We'll do that on the next break.

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Well, welcome back to The Ramsey Show here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Back to the phones. To the phone lines we go. I'm Jade, this is Dr. John, and we've got Ben in Shreveport, Louisiana. Hey Ben, how can we help today?

Hey, uh, thanks for taking my call.

You bet, how can we help?

Yeah, so, um, I am just wanting some advice on whether or not I should essentially take away access is spending for my wife because of her self-described spending problems.

What do the spending problems look like? Explain that a little bit more.

Yeah, so, um, just spending a lot of money on hobbies and, um, clothing and Um, things that are pretty, you know, iffy on whether or not we really need them.

Do you guys budget together? Do you create a budget together?

We try. Um, we, you know, don't keep up with it extremely well, but we try to.

Okay. If we're not keeping up with the budget, how do we know that she's spending too much?

Well, we have, we've given, essentially we give each other an allowance each month.

Okay.

And we're supposed to be keeping track of, you know, how much we spend on, you know, quote unquote fun money. Um, and, you know, she pretty frequently goes over that limit and, you know, when, when she runs out, you know, she will just kind of use our, um, You know, we, we kind of have a separate account that we use for that specifically. But she, if she runs out, she'll just kind of go to our, our regular, um, our regular bank account and use that instead. And so she's just kind of doing that month after month.

And how much are we saying? Like, when she, once she spends the money in the fun money account and then she goes to your normal checking account, how much is she pulling from that normal checking account? Give us some dollar amounts.

I mean, it's— it changes a good bit from month to month, but I would say, you know, a few hundred dollars a month.

Like $200, $200 or $300 over?

Yeah.

Okay.

And what do you guys bring in home every single month between the two of you, income-wise?

Um, total is probably $4,500.

Okay.

So has she asked you for help?

Well, yeah, she, she has specifically told me that she wants me to stop her from doing that, you know, to take away debit cards and take away her access to that. And I'm really resistant to that idea. Yeah, good.

That's her setting you up as the bad guy in her story. Because she's still gonna wanna go buy it. So I, I have a personal situation where I was just, I needed to practice staying on a budget.

Mm-hmm.

And so I handed my wife my debit card and I changed, I had her change the Amazon Prime account so I couldn't have it.

Mm-hmm.

But that was me going to her not to make her the bad guy, but to say, I gotta, dude, I gotta start lifting weights on my Mm-hmm. And, but she told me, I don't, she didn't feel comfortable doing it, but for a season, fine. The way you frame the question, should I take my wife's credit, like her debit cards from her? I would say no. Like that puts you, you know, for—

Accountability is different from control.

Exactly. You're, you're not her dad. Um, and if you need to, because you're, you guys bring home $4,500 and she's blowing through $200 or $300 extra dollars, that's a lot. That's a lot of money. You might need to go open your own checking account for the safety of your home. Similar to if she had a, uh, if she was struggling with alcohol or she was struggling with gambling, we always tell folks, you, at some point you have to make sure you're taking control of the home.

Mm-hmm.

Or it could be as simple as y'all just aren't being honest about fun money. And if you need to prioritize $200 more, then prioritize $200 more. But if, if you know, if you, if you were to increase her spending money, by the way, I would not call it allowance. That again, that's very very like parent-child language, but like her fun money, if you were to increase it by $200 and she was gonna— she'll go over that by $200 or $300, then we have a problem. Then you got a problem.

Yeah.

I just don't like her setting you up as the bad guy.

Or as, or as the person who, if it all goes bad, it's on, it's on him instead of on her. I wonder what it would look like to John's point if you said, okay, what if we tried deleting the apps from your phone, right? If she's a person, if she's an online shopper, let's delete the apps from your phone. Let's start there. And we're not gonna do Amazon apps. We're not gonna do Macy's app, none of that. Or if she's a person who she says, hey, I'm just running out to pick up the dry cleaning. And while she's out, she goes to Target, she goes to this or that, right? Are there things that you can put in place to help each other? Because I do think there's a level of accountability that spouses can have with one another. Like, you know, for me and social media, I'll tell my husband, hey, if you happen to just see me scrolling on my phone, Like, come grab the phone. Come grab it from me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that that's a fair, do you see what I'm saying? I think there's a fair amount of play here. But also what you said earlier is what I wanna go back to, which is I don't think that the budget is actually as strong and as much of a guiding principle for you guys as maybe you think it is. Because when I asked, it was kind of like, yeah, we kind of have one. We kind of stick to it. We kind of don't. And if I'm in a situation where it's like, oh, we kind, oh, we kind of stick to this, we kind of don't. Well then I'm kind of not not this month, right? Whereas if you guys sit down and say, you know what, we've been lackadaisical in every area with our budget. And I think we together just need to start being way more intentional. We've done it with going out to eat. We've done it with clothing. We've done it with hobbies. We've done it with entertainment. We just need to pull the strings tighter. That's a conversation. Now we're both contributing. And maybe we're both— is that fair? Or did I—

No, no, that's, that's pretty fair. Um, I guess what I'm most afraid of is, you know, if we do try to be more, you know, way, way more disciplined, what I'm afraid of and kind of what I've had experience with in, you know, similar sorts of like, um, similar situations is that But I'm afraid that she's just going to find alternative ways to satisfy that.

Okay, then you, you need to get to— you've got a way bigger fracture in your marriage than debit card spending, because it— you've got somebody who is actively fighting against the vision y'all are supposed to be co-creating together. And that could, that could be because she's struggling with mental and emotional challenges. She needs to go see somebody. body, or it could just be that she's a jerk.

Yeah.

Completely undisciplined and just kind of a brat. I'm gonna go with option one. I wanna give everybody the benefit of the doubt and say, man, she's just got, she's struggling. And when things get big, when her emotions get big, when she gets scared, whatever, feel anxious, whatever, swiping that card makes it go away for a minute. The same as I might go grab a cheeseburger or somebody else might go grab a drink. Um, somebody else may go place a bet and yeah, then you need people who love you enough to stand in that gap with you and also hold you accountable. But, um, you, if, if you decided we're gonna be really intentional together and your biggest fear there is that she's gonna go around that system and figure out another way to blow things up, that's where you gotta start with the relationship that y'all have with your marriage. 'Cause it's in a much more precarious spot than just a debit card spending issue.

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Well, everyone needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck and agents who know their stuff. Luckily, our Ramsey Trusted Insurance Pros are vetted and coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interest at heart. Go to ramseysolutions.com/coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey Trusted Agent. Alrighty, Jan is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Jan, how can we help today?

Hi, thank you for taking my call.

You bet.

Um, I was wanting to know, so my husband and I are 28 and 29, and we have one We have a little boy and we're expecting another one on the way.

Congrats.

Well, we— thank you. We are in a strong position to buy a new home. And with the current market in our area, there's not a whole lot of movement on the market. And so, we have an opportunity with our funds by following y'all's plan that we can really move on a house that we want to live in. We would love to have up to 4 children, but our hesitation here is Are we a little bit too quick to purchase a forever home being this young? Or do we really need to be looking at a more shorter-term home than that?

What do you mean when you say forever home? It's a very hard prediction to make that you will be in the same place.

I'm on forever home number 6.

Yeah. What gives you that confidence, Jason?

I think is going ahead and buying the house and the space for all 4 kids, and then also buying it in the location that really sets us up to have, um, access to any opportunities around us. So my husband works a job where he could possibly move jobs, so we sit in a location where he can access 2, 2 strong cities. Mm-hmm.

Okay.

But in order to do that, we're going to spend a little bit more money.

No, I think what you're saying, if you are framing it like that, I actually think that's a smart way to think about making a home purchase. Obviously, location matters most when you're buying a home. And yes, you want to buy the space that you need if you can afford it. And looking towards the future when you have growing kids, I do think that that's a smart thing. I think what I would guard against is when you say forever home, you can start to justify things that you don't really need by saying, well, eventually, well, when the kids get to college and when they get married, and you're going so, so far into time that we really don't even know. But it doesn't sound like you're doing that. I would just caution against that. Does that make sense?

Oh yes, absolutely.

So that being said, what do you guys have to spend and what are the houses in the that you're looking for, what do they cost?

So, the cost that we're looking at is probably around the $600,000 to $750,000 range. We have a completely paid-for house that's worth about $300,000. And then, we have a household income of just under $300,000. And then, my husband also, it was just announced that a payout, his company. He owns some shares in his company, and a payout will be coming hopefully within the next year or 2.

And what will that be?

We anticipate probably around $250,000. That's a conservative amount that we're estimating.

And tell me again, when you would get that? At the end of the year?

Most likely by the end of next year, but it could be up to 2 years depending on how long the process takes.

Okay. So is there any part of this where you're like, let's wait and do this thing in cash?

Oh, he would probably say so.

That's what I'm thinking. You have 2 young kids. You have, you have one kid, one on the way.

Yes.

You'll have a house and it's paid for.

It's worth $300,000.

Worth $300 grand. And, and listen, we, Jade and I would only have jobs if the things that people were told and their plans worked out.

Right?

And so I cannot tell you how much both of us want you to get a check for $350,000 on this, on this payout. And the number of people who are promised that kind of thing and then get a check for $42,000 cuz the market has done something weird or something happened or we're, we decided to recapitalize, blah, blah, blah. And now suddenly you're sitting with a $750,000 and y'all went ahead and went $790,000 cuz it's our forever home. Now you found yourself in a whole totally different Oh yeah. But I would love for y'all to, to stack cash and you're sitting on $200,000 or $300,000, not $300,000, you're sitting on $200,000 in cash and then you get a check for $350,000 and then you sell your $300,000 house. You know, you can buy anything.

Now don't get me wrong, what John said, I love that. That'd probably be my first thought is, Is there a way to do this in cash? But in all fairness, if you sold, if you found a house that was $700,000, you sold your $300,000, and then you put, do you have any other cash saving that you would go put with this?

We'd probably use probably no more than maybe $100,000.

Of cash savings?

Well, they're in the market, but I would think that we would liquidate it and put it towards there. Now, this is not retirement. This is in a taxable account.

Understood.

So let's say, is it fair to say you'd put $400,000 down on this $700,000 house?

Absolutely, yeah.

Okay. So in all fairness, if you did that, and I'm just using the Ramsey Solutions investment calculator, you'd be well within your range to do this. I mean, you guys bring home $19,000 a month or around that, and this would put your mortgage somewhere around $3,500. bucks a month, right? Like, no problem.

Got it.

You could totally do that. There's no shame in that game. I'm rooting for you. Uh, we just wanna lay out both options because everything we do here is about getting people to that shortest path to peace. And so if it feels more peaceful to you to go, you know what, maybe if we wait 1 or 2 years, we could do this deal in cash. I like the feeling of that. Or you could go, you wanna know what? We are busting at the seams in this current house. It is not worth it to me. We've sacrificed enough. I'm ready to do this deal now. It's a small piece of our world to have this mortgage. And then on down the line, we'll just pay it off super fast, that's also fine. Either of these ways, Jan, are totally fine and totally doable for you.

Can I, um, can I throw some spaghetti in the wall, at the wall and see if it sticks?

Yes.

Have you ever wrestled with being anxious in the past?

Yes.

Um, this is the pot talking to the kettle here. Okay. You and I both have a tendency, which unfortunately serves us well sometimes, and unfortunately is really hard on our spouses, on our friends and family, and on us. And that is—

Mm-hmm.

To look into the future, anticipate any number of potential catastrophes, and then try to drag them into the present and solve them today, right now. We gotta solve it right Oh, is that fair?

Yes, absolutely.

Here's what, like, I, I want— this is, this is just— I know this is easier said than done. I want you— how far along are you pregnant? Pregnancy?

7 months.

How many?

Oh, 7 months.

7 months.

Okay. Will you make me and Jade and America a promise that you will practice over the next, just say, 6 months. Ah, take all the anxieties of what might happen, what, where college your newborn's gonna go to, and what's the state of AI and your job. And we're in this city. Just keep a journal and call it, um, the June of 2027 Solutions Journal. And I'm just gonna start writing down all the things I'm worrying about, get 'em outta my body, outta my head, put 'em on a piece of paper, and I'm gonna enjoy the bloody heck out of I'm gonna enjoy this knuckleheaded little baby that we just, just brought into the world. I'm gonna enjoy this husband who's kind of clueless now that he's got 2 babies in the house now, and he's making a great salary. I'm gonna enjoy my other toddler. I'm just going to practice exhaling. Is that fair?

Yes.

Y'all are such— in such a great position. Y'all can kind of do what you want to do. Um, and it sounds like you're being so wise about it.

about it.

Jade, I, I'm the worst. I'm the worst at trying to solve 20-year problems from now. We were just talking about it in the break.

Like, yeah, I think I'm gonna, and it's like, I mean, with homes for sure, when people start talking about forever homes, I get a little bit nervous cuz it does give you permission to go off the rails. And that's the last thing that you want to do, especially with, you know, affordability being so high. You don't want to pay more than what you need because it's my forever home. But if you're interested in that mortgage calculator, you can it. It's so easy to plug in those numbers, guys. I plugged in $700,000, her down payment, 15-year fixed, and you can see what your total would be, uh, mortgage payment with everything included.

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Today's question comes from Brad in Arkansas. Brad writes, my son is 23 and still lives at home. He pays rent, his cell phone bill, gas, car insurance and repairs, tithes, etc., but he's not saving any money. He has packages coming to the house almost every day in addition to buying a bunch of stuff he doesn't need. How do I encourage him not to waste so much money?

Um, I think we're fighting the wrong battle.

Ayo.

I think the main battle I'd be saying is, how can I encourage myself to tell my son he needs to move out? I think that'd be the question. Um, there's no indicator in this question of the day that the kid is living at home to try to stay out, you know, to try to pay off student loans or something like that, because I know that that's a popular thing and I'm not poo-pooing that.

Are they trying to save up money so he can go get his own place.

Right. There's nothing here indicating that. And so for that reason, I really do think, John, and I would love to hear your thoughts on this. I really do feel like 23 years old, 24 years old, 25 years old, still living at home unless there's a really clear plan in place. Hey, you're going to live here until you pay off $70,000 of student loan debt, then you're out. It's going to take a year and a half. We've agreed.

Boom.

That's fine. Not mad. But if it's just just like, I'm just at home because it's cozy here and I can play video games on my phone and I can gamble on my phone and I can have Amazon packages delivered and I can kind of just seep into, you know, not the nothingness. Yeah, that's not okay. And I think we really have to push back on that, especially with young boys. Like, we really have to push them.

It's a disservice.

Yeah.

What, what he needs more than anything is to feel the weight of this scary word, and that is responsibility. And he's, he's doing a good job, Brad, of doing what you tell him, but he's not doing a— he's not feeling the full weight of the responsibility of it. Here's a perfect example. He's buying a bunch of stuff he doesn't need, says you. He might think in his 23-year-old wisdom he needs this stuff. He needs these new fancy socks or these new fancy shoes or this new fancy hair product or this new fancy whatever. And part of being 23 is buying dumb crap and realizing, I wish I had that money. That won't happen again on your own. On your own. But when dad is saying you don't need that, now I'm pitting your value system against my value system, and I'm gonna fight for my value system against my old man just 'cause, right?

Yeah.

So, but you never really learn yours.

But I don't learn anything. So He is paying rent cuz you say so. He's paying his cell phone bill cuz you say so. He is paying for gas, car insurance cuz you say so. He's not learning the weight of responsibility that 23-year-old young boys who are becoming men desperately need. And so the greatest— you nailed it. The greatest gift you can give him, Brad, is to say, hey, in 6 months we're giving you the greatest gift we can give you, and that is you're moving out. We've given you, I'm assuming he went to college, you're 2 years post-college, you'll be 3 years. I would recommend you save up this much money. You can save up this much money, but at 24 or 23 and a half, you're moving out. And me and mom are getting the house back.

I'll never forget, I went to college not far from home, but far enough that I lived on campus. And the first time, the first couple times I went to the grocery store, I'm going down the aisle and I'm putting in my my cart, Campbell's Cream of Chicken Soup, Velveeta cheese.

Name brands.

Banquet pot pie. And I looked at what was, and I realized I'm only putting this in my cart 'cause this is what my mom and dad bought at the grocery store. And this is what I'm used to. And I put everything back on the shelf and I was like, I don't have to do that. I live on my own now. I can buy the things that I want to buy. And it's like you have those light bulb moments when you're 21, 22, 23, and you actually strike out on your own that you start to realize, to your point, what are my values? But as long as you're under somebody else's roof, you're like, I buy the chicken pot pie. That's what my mom buys. I pay my rent. She tells me, right? And it's so, it's such a discovery moment. You don't wanna take that away from them, you know, to be able to discover who they are, what they like, what they don't like, what their values are.

Well, and sometimes the weight that all young adults need to carry, and especially in our current world, young men need to carry, is not even the known bills, but that hovering presence of this could happen. The car could get 2 flat tires. The transmission could fall out. And I've got nothing to fall back on.

Yeah.

And so, it's not only the bills that you, it's the unknown unknowns, right?

Yeah.

It's the, there's just a weight to what happens if? Yeah, that's what an emergency fund is for.

Yes.

That's what savings are for. And you learn that when, like I had to, when you leave, when I call a friend and say, I think I need to go to the ER and I have all of my credit cards are maxed. I can't get in the door.

Yeah.

Can I borrow a credit card if I end up needing to go? And I remember getting him, my buddy's like, I got you. And I got off the phone and said, that will never happen again.

Yeah.

And so like, he has to experience it. That builds something in you. Yes, it does.

That builds something in you and he has to experience it. I gotta say this. I, I know I'm not the first one to say it, But there's a quiet message that I think that we do send our kids when we attempt to shield them from things like that. And we think that we're doing them a service. Oh, they're 23. They're just getting started. They wanna stay at home for a little while. That's okay. But there is a quiet message that's being sent that's saying, you know what? I don't think you can make it out there either.

I don't believe in you.

Yeah, I don't think you can make it out there. Why don't you stay here? Yeah, you're right. You probably can't make it on your own. You probably can't handle the rent. You probably— you're not saying it out loud, but what else are you saying?

That's the air they're breathing is, we don't believe in you.

Yes.

And so, the greatest gift a kid can get is A, a lifetime of tools, and B, if you've got the resources to put a little extra jet fuel in their backpack, put it in there. Shoot them off into space. And then to look them in the eye and say, I believe in you. My front door is always open. You can always come home. But I believe in you. And now it's time. I'm gonna, I'm gonna shove you outta the nest.

Yes. I love that.

And yeah, so Brad, it, you're at a point now where you got a, an old bull and a young bull trying to make friends inside the same pen, and that's not gonna work. You're not gonna encourage him to not waste so much money cuz he doesn't think it's a waste. What you have to encourage him to do is to get out on his own and begin getting stronger in the weight room of life, knowing that you're right there. You're his dad. You love him. He's, his mom's there. She loves him. But it's time for him to start lifting the weights on his own.

Yeah.

And I think that, I mean, we're talking about a 23 or, you know, 24-year-old, but I really do think that that starts really, really young with just building up people that are going to go out in the world and be young men and women instead of like kids that we're protecting from every little thing that happens.

So this just happened in my house. My son's 16. And we're about to enter into deer season, which is in our family's—

It's a big deal.

It's a big deal.

And venison.

Venison. There you go. And he was telling me this year, Dad, I'm going to be going with so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so.

Not you?

I had my heart— it broke my heart. It made me sad because he's, he's been to everyone with me forever.

I'm sorry, John.

That also It hurts. And it's exactly what we spent the last 13 years training up for. And him and I had a long conversation last night where I wrote things out. Here are my expectations because you're moving to a different tier. And then I walked out of his room and I was so— Did you cry? I didn't cry, but I was real close, right? It broke my heart because I don't want him to ever go anywhere with anybody else. I want him to hang out with his old man. And that's not the right thing for him.

Mm-hmm.

And so my job is to go get some friends to go with now. And my job is to really cherish the times we do have together. And my job is to make sure he's safe. And my job is to let him go in an age-appropriate way. 23 years old, it's time.

Okay. I'm gonna put you on the spot in a major way.

Yeah.

'Cause I was, uh, hearing about a study, the, the topic is overprotection of kids. Mm-hmm. So I wanna know from you, you know, this idea of, I'm gonna let my son go out and do this thing. I'm gonna let my son go out and do this. What do you think is a fair age for a kid to go out in public without a parent and do something social, do something on their own without you there supervising them?

I, A, I think that's kid-specific.

Okay.

And I also think that depends on the group. Like, who, who are you with?

There's an old, there's an old adage playing outside in the front yard on your own, unsupervised.

Oh, as, as, as early as you can. Yeah. Let your kids go be wild, man.

Yeah.

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Back to the phone lines where we have Brandon in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Hi, Brandon. How can John and I help today?

Hey, thank you for taking my call.

You bet.

Well, I want to start out by saying that I am a 3/4 Baby Steps millionaire.

All right.

So, um, everybody listening, And then work the steps, people. It will change your life and your family tree.

Love that.

Um, well, I, I really have an issue with how I, how I go about talking to my wife about purchasing a house for my parents. They're getting older and they can't exactly work like they used to, and they're— they've been renting their whole life, and I want to bless them with a house. And I feel real passionate about it, but I've, I've asked my wife and talked to my wife about it a handful of times over the past year, year and a half, and I can't seem to get anywhere. She's— I guess she's scared of putting down that much money. I mean, we could pay cash for it.

How old are you guys?

I'm 41, she's 36.

41 and 36. And did I hear you have $3.4 million or $3.25 million?

No, we're 3/4 of a millionaire. 3/4 Baby Step millionaire.

Yeah, 3/4 the way there. So you're $750,000 Yes, ma'am. Okay, I interpreted that differently.

Okay.

And then what kind of house do you want to buy them that you have cash for?

Just a, you know, just a 1-bedroom small little countryside house in Arkansas where they live.

What's that cost?

I've done research, about $150,000. I could probably get it down to $125,000.

Yeah. And then tell me about the conversation with your wife. How's it go?

Well, it's kind of— anymore, it's kind of rough. And she's like, we've talked about this before. I'm against it because we wouldn't do the same for my family. And which I totally would do the same for her family because I look at those as investments. But it doesn't go very far anymore. She's just like, well, I'm just against it. This is for our future. This money is for our future. Sure.

Have you guys, um, that's her main argument, I should say. Have you guys, have you sat down with her? And I'm not saying in an effort to win this battle, I'm just saying at, in a separate instance, have you guys sat down together and said, you know, if we continue on down this road, we'll have X amount of dollars by the time we retire? Or have you guys sat down and said, here's the exact number that we want when we're ready to retire? Have you all done that?

No.

Because if you haven't done that, then there's no point to work backwards from to even know if this will affect your future. Is that fair enough? If you guys said, hey, we want to have $3 million when we retire, and your wife is able to say, hey, if we do this, we won't have $3 million when we, when we retire, she would be able to make that argument. Do you see what I'm saying? But if you've never said that number, then there's no basis for any arguments, yours or hers, Right?

I have actually punched what we have into the calculator and what I'm putting in every month into my Roth 401 and whatnot. And I have told her it's over $7 million, but it doesn't seem to persuade—

yeah, this doesn't sound like it.

I still can't persuade her.

This doesn't sound like a numbers question. Does she not like your parents?

Ah, she doesn't hate them. I don't feel—

That's not what I asked.

Because, I mean, yeah, she talks to my mom probably every other Yeah, my mom and dad don't have the best relationship, but they're, but they're living together.

Is the $750,000 that you guys have, is that cash money or is that including your own home?

No, I've got— we've got $300,000 equity in our house, we've got $315,000 in the markets, and I've got $120,000 in a Roth 401.

I gotta say, um, when you tell me the numbers like that, I don't I don't know.

It doesn't sound like you have $125 grand to—

You've got, I see you with $435,000 in the market. And I think I'd be feeling like, I don't know, $150,000 today. I don't know how I feel about that. But I don't think she's, I agree with John. I don't know if she's saying this from a mathematical perspective, but I am. How much are you putting away every month?

Oh shoot, that's— it don't even care. I don't even hit my— it comes out right out of my check, so it's $580 a check.

$580 a check and you get, uh, okay, so let's just for round numbers, let's say $1,200 a month. Does that feel fair?

No, it's more like— it's more like $2,000. I get paid every week, so it's more like $2,000 a month.

So we'll say $2,000 a month.

Okay.

And we'll say out of the, we'll call it $400,000 that's already in there. And I'm just putting this in our Ramsey Solutions investment calculator, by the way. So we've got $400,000 that's already in there. You're age 41?

Yes, ma'am.

And let's say, let's just make it round numbers. Let's say 61. So 20 years. If we keep doing that, we're going to calculate that. Yeah, you're right. That's $5 million. If we went on and on, that'd be over $7 million. So I think, I don't know because we had to run the numbers, but when I look at it today, it does make me feel nervous. When I look at it long-term, there's a better opportunity for you to do this. How old are your parents today?

My dad's 73 and my mom's 70.

Have y'all had the conversation about, okay, if then we don't buy them a house, but What are we gonna do when?

Yeah.

Have y'all had that conversation?

Think about it. No, we haven't.

Because I, I've heard you in, in this one call, so I'm just trying to, I'm trying to be gracious towards your wife's perspective. I've heard you call this an investment. I've heard you call this a, I wanna bless them.

Mm-hmm.

I've heard you call this a battle of wills, me versus my wife. I've heard you say, I wanna take care of my mom and my mom and my dad don't have the best relationship, but they still live together. The aim here feels messy to me. And so I think for you getting clear, why do I want to buy a house for them? Because they're not gonna have any place to live. They're gonna run outta Social Security. Their health is failing. Because if that's the case, then all right, we're not gonna buy 'em a house in Arkansas, but we got, I, they're my parents. I want us to at least participate somewhat as best we can. And maybe I've gotta rally my siblings too to what they can do But we can't leave them on the street.

Yeah.

What does that look like? And for her family too.

Yeah.

I, I want to also insert this because I can tell you where my mind is going. And I wonder if your wife's mind is in this place. I guess we won't know because she's on the call. But I look at your ages today and I go, okay, they're 41 and 36. Today, they've got around $400,000 saved. That's, you know, to take a quarter of that on a parent's house, that feels like a lot. She might be looking in the future and going, gosh, we don't know what the future holds. We don't know if we're going to both have jobs next year. We don't know if we'll be able to continue investing $2,000. Like, I wonder if she's going down that path of, I don't know what's going to change. Therefore, I want to protect what we have. And I want to make sure it stays secure. Does that sound at all like your wife?

Yeah, that's fair. Very Very fair.

So I'm wondering if there's something that we can do and say, okay, for today, here's the way that we can help. It's not buying a house, but here's maybe something we can begin to do that feels comfortable, comfortable for her, but is also moving you in the direction that you'd like to go. Maybe that looks like, well, okay, we know there's going to be bills coming up from them that we might have to fit the bill on. What if we said, hey, Hey, let's start putting aside a certain amount in a brokerage that we know when they're 83, here's what the cash that we have, and then whatever cash is there, that's what we have to spend. Is that something that you would consider?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, if, if we can't come together on, you know, the— we have to come together on some kind of solution because, uh, you know, they're— I don't know if they don't— I don't feel that they have a— my parents have a big savings or they would probably have already bought a house. So something like, like John's say something's gonna have to happen.

But, but, but Brandon, do you know this? Are you— is this just a story you're making up?

Oh, it's, it's, it's true. My dad's asked me for money before.

Okay. All right. So, so you, you, you do know this. I mean, there's, there's a thing beneath the thing, and anytime there's a thing beneath the thing, meaning the fight you and your wife are having is not about buying a house or not, it's about something something that's deeper than that. And so getting outta your house, going somewhere, having a long breakfast in a coffee shop and just saying, all right, our parents are both in their 70s. I want us to start planning. I threw out the idea of buying a house. That's not something you wanna do. I get that. But I do want us to be honest about what kind of kids are we going to be to our aging parents and whether it comes to money, whether it comes to emotional support, whether it comes to moving them next to us, paying their light bill, whatever that looks like. And let's start planning now for when that change happens. And if you've always had a dream of buying your parents a house, it doesn't sound like you have the money to do that. And so it might just always just be a dream, but you may be able to support and take care of them in the best way that you can.

Okay, George, we hear from so many people that are trying to live out the Ramsey Plan, right? They're getting out of debt and everything, but the hard thing is there's not many banks out there that actually support the way we teach people to handle money.

Yeah, most banks, they don't want you to win with money, so they charge a bunch of nuisance fees, there's all this fine print, and worst of all, they are pushing debt products at you nonstop.

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They're not like the other guys. Yeah, they are not pushing debt, and they actually want you to win with the Baby Steps. And so what's great, too, is they created the Smart Bundle for Ramsey fans, which includes a high-yield savings account and no monthly fee checking.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Jade. This is John. And we're going to go to Edward, who's in Fargo, North Dakota. Hey, Edward, how are you?

Good. How are you doing?

All right, how can we help today?

So first off, I'm not good at articulating my words, so try to bear with me because it's a long story, but I'll make it short.

Edward, I'm not either, so I'm glad you're here, brother. We'll get through this together.

Thank you. So long story short, my wife called me this morning, who— and we're newlywed, so we're still trying to figure out our house and our just life situation, but she wants to sit down with her 2 older family members to discuss their family business. And I'm trying not to be biased with it, but I've always kind of been against it since day one. But she's such a hard worker. She's so smart and everything that I'm trying to— and it's part of her dream. There's just been so many issues with her family and her brothers to where it's caused a lot of drama between us or just hate and ruined relationships. So I guess the main thing is we're going to be sitting down and talking with them in the next, in the next week or so to figure out, hey, if you guys keep disrespecting us, we're walking away. Otherwise, let's try to work this out, make this work.

What kind of disrespect?

Or not walk away. So I'm trying to figure out how to word it simply, but it's, they've been against me for my beliefs and the way I live my life. life. And like the last 3 years, I've lived with my mom to help her with foster care and her horse ranch and all sorts of stuff. And they're just not— they're not believers, so they don't understand it.

Okay, so your family's— your wife's family doesn't have the same spiritual beliefs as you. How does that— how is that affected in the family business? Because you were saying, oh, she's gonna have some business conversations later with the older members of her family. Help me tie together the wife's family business and how that has to do with how you live your life helping your mom and your spiritual business.

So, so my decisions don't affect them at all, like her older family members.

Okay.

They just don't like me for whatever reason because I've quote unquote changed her in negative ways.

Okay.

Realistically, it has just made her realize how toxic something Okay. And she's been drawing boundaries and they don't like the boundaries.

What is your—

what is your— do you work in this business too, brother?

I'm a part of it now because we're married. It's just basically rental properties kind of thing.

Okay.

But— and they have big dreams to end up helping single families and like lots of big dreams. My thing is though is my wife's the only one that has God in it, and then the rest of family members just kind of have like that money hunger. hungry, getting what they never had.

I get that. I get that totally. And I guess— go ahead, Jade.

I just— and I don't want to step on your toes in any way because I can tell this really bothers you, but I'm trying to understand how this is playing out in the family's real estate business. The fact that whether they're Christ followers or not, what are you seeing that they're that is like explicitly, man, this is exactly the opposite of what they should be doing, and it's causing a moral dilemma for you?

They just have a lot of hate and they want control, and it's either their way or the highway. They're a big family that hates hard but loves kind of hard, like kind of that back and forth, just in an unhealthy way.

So you don't like the way that they communicate with each other? That's— that for you, that feels for them, they're used to it. But for you, you're like, oh my gosh, the way this family communicates, it's crazy. What is your wife saying? Because your wife, I mean, obviously it's her family. Is she like, listen, this is the way it is. I got it. I'm used to it. Trust me. Just let me handle this. What is she saying?

She, so this morning she finally kind of got on the same page that I've been wanting to be on is we're gonna have this conversation with them. If it doesn't go well, we'll walk If it goes well and they say, okay, we'll do better, then we'll stay. How many is it?

How many of them is it?

How many? So it's her 2 oldest brothers, and then her mother is involved in it in a weird, complicated way.

So she's gonna go to her 2 brothers and her mom and say, me and Edward don't like the way that you're treating each other and us. We're Christian people and you're not honoring our Christian values. values, so you either need to start honoring our Christian values or we're leaving? Is that the conversation? Because you can't expect them to honor your values if they don't have the same belief system.

Oh yeah, we weren't gonna word it like that because we know—

But that's essentially what you're telling me. That's essentially what you're telling— I'm not saying that you're going to word it that way, but that's essentially what you're telling me. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you're out— I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that's a high expectation. It's probably not going to happen is what I'm really low So I guess, again, this is—

it's such a long story and so complicated. The best way I can say it is her mother wasn't invited to our wedding. Her one brother wasn't invited to the wedding either. And then we had a change of heart after talking to our marriage counselors, and we gave him grace. He still didn't show up. And then the other brother, during the wedding, said some stuff to my groomsmen that really hurt them. Okay, that he brought it up.

So here's the thing, here's the thing, here's what I think. I don't think you need to rehash any more drama. I think that you guys are newlyweds. I think she needs to go get a job and not work in the family business. And I think that if she doesn't work in the family business and you guys live in your life, in your house, and go to your church and do your thing, and maybe you only see them on Thanksgiving or Christmas, I think a lot of this drama will just dissipate. And I think it's totally fine, no shade, for you to go, you know what, I don't know your wife's name, Amber's gonna go work, you know, down the road at the, the medical center, and we're done. And it's no shade, thank you, and just move on. Well, so move on.

I miscommunicated that. So she does have her own job. This is just kind of like her side hustle. Even better, even better. Walk away.

Walk away.

Oh, okay.

She doesn't have to work in that. That's toxic.

If she has equity in it, they need to buy her out. But bro, if I'm you, I wouldn't go—

I wouldn't go Well, and that's the thing. I've been wanting to ever since we started getting serious in our relationship. It's just been her dream for so long.

But then let it be her dream. And if it's truly her dream, she's gonna want to do it with people who build her up and she feels good working around and feels good being around. She's not so desperate that she has to work in an environment where she feels disrespected, or maybe she feels like it's toxic, or whatever, whatever have you. There's drama between the brothers, whatever have you. You guys are so young. She's got her whole life to build her real estate dreams, her real estate empire. And I think that you guys are— how old are you guys, Edward?

27.

27. I think you're old enough to look at something and go, I don't want to be part of that. I don't want to participate in that. They're my family. I can love them from a distance. I can love them on the holidays. But every day, we don't need to be tied up in this because it's just causing more strife between you guys.

And I want to double-click on what, um, Jade said. I want you to be very clear for yourself and with your wife on when you say disrespect, when you say, um, power hungry. I want you to be very clear about what you mean. I do a lot of work all over the country with people who have wildly different faith values than me, but they're great people. They're amazing people. And we disagree on core issues and they're awesome people. And I love showing up and doing business with 'em, doing work with 'em, doing side by side, entertaining people side by side, helping people. That can't be the prerequisite. You have to see the world as I see. I mean, it can be, but it's— You're gonna drastically limit who you interact with in the world. And man, that's a, That's a tough road to hoe. If you, if you circle the wagons at 27 and say, you either see the world exactly as I do it, believe exactly as I do, or I'm gonna consider that a sign of disrespect, man, you're gonna imprison yourself and that lock's gonna be on the inside of your jail.

And so be very clear and have an or what statement.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Guys, if today's episode hit home, please let us know in the comments and do your best to share it. You know, share it with somebody who you know that's financially stressed out. That person at work, that person at church, your sister-in-law, your sister. Just share it, because when you share it, the message of hope spreads across the lands, and it's good for everybody. All right, let's go to Ben, who's in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hey Ben, how can Jon and I help today?

Hey, thanks for taking the call, guys. Appreciate it.

Yeah, you bet.

Um, so a little backstory. Um, end of 2024, paid off all of our student loans, credit card debts, so we were officially debt-free besides the mortgage. Um, that was exciting. Loving life, living life, um, saving money. Um, July of this year, my wife's vehicle was up to the 220,000-mile Ended up getting her a nice reliable Toyota, but that drained a significant portion of our savings. And now, unfortunately, my 2010 vehicle is also having some issues that mechanic is recommending the fix/replacement for it is potentially worth or would cost more than the vehicle itself. So we had kind of just worked on building everything back up, and then the car came, and we had put some money in retirement. And so now it's kind of left us short on the unknown of the unknown with 2 vehicles going out in 3 months. So trying to figure out, obviously without financing, you know, we just paid everything off. We don't want to go back to that.

Sure.

If there's another solution that maybe we're not thinking What do you guys earn every single month combined? We bring in, it's about $6,000 a month.

Okay, $6,000 a month. And up until July, you guys were socking whatever margin you have away in your emergency fund. Is that right?

Yeah. So we'd do about $550 a month just to the emergency fund alone. And then when the car came up that we quantified that as an emergency. We both drive about 60 miles each way to work. So that was part of the reason we wanted reliable vehicles was for it to be reliable.

Of the $6K though, your only margin is $550. I want to get to how we can save up this money and some of the things that we can do in the future to avoid this kind of like, oh my gosh, I'm stuck. We need to upgrade the vehicle.

Yeah. So I will admit the mortgage is $2,400 of that. So that's a bigger portion.

Yeah, it really is.

Utilities, insurance, all that stuff gets us there. Gas prices, food, the gym, little things here and there. Okay.

What I'd be looking to do, and I'm guessing what you bought in July was pretty modest. What'd you spend on that?

That was $12,500 for that vehicle.

Yeah, fair enough.

50,000 miles, one owner, Florida driven, that, you know, just grandma's car. So it worked out really well.

So how much is the repair on your vehicle?

So they're— the frame is what they're saying is rusting out on it. So they're saying between the welding and the repairs there, it could be anywhere from $4,000 to $6,500.

Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's expensive.

Yeah, that Michigan salt has eaten away the bones of that car.

Yeah, unfortunately so. And I've been limping along as much as I can and doing some stuff myself.

I mean, I hate to say it, but here, I want to work backwards for a moment and then that will frame up why I'm going to say what I'm going to say because you're not going to like what I'm going to say. Obviously you've been driving this 2010 When you're driving a vehicle that's that old, you have to be thinking in the back of your mind, okay, the day's gonna come, the day's gonna come. So—

Right.

At some point, you have to start putting aside knowing that that's coming. I'm gonna have to upgrade my vehicle. She's gonna have to upgrade hers. Ideally, when you're walking the Baby Steps, especially once you get out of Baby Step 2, that's like numero uno. I gotta be funding this, whether it's, you know, the emergency fund. I'm just gonna keep funding that, just knowing these vehicles are gonna, you know, pop off any moment now. I kind of think that that didn't happen so much. It was like, okay, we've got the emergency fund, we can stop and we can live a little. And then all of a sudden this other vehicle came and it was like, oh man, that sucks. So what I think you're going to have to do, and I hate this, I think you're going to have to save up real quick. And I think you're going to have to have a beater for a while, like a worse beater than you have now. And I think that as you save, you're going to be able to slowly upgrade that up to what you want it to be. Because the truth is you just don't have the cash to spend another $12,000 today.

And part of that is, you know, you're right, your mortgage is a high percent. I think it's not quite as high as you think it is. My guess is that $6K that you bring in, that's after medical insurance, maybe after some investing. Am I right?

Yeah. So that's take-home, 401s funded, Roths funded, all of that.

Right. So if we looked at the number, that's just your after-tax number, it'd probably be closer to $7,000 maybe.

Yeah, I'd say that's fair. And I'm salaried and my wife is hourly, so it fluctuates sometimes. But yeah, that's a fair number.

So when we compare the $2,400 to the $7,000, it paints you a better picture, which I think that's good to recognize too. But yeah, I hate to say it, Ben, I think it's, I think it's beater time for a while. And I think the lesson that we learn is we've got to, when you're driving beater cars with this, with the saved money you're putting aside actively for the next car that you can trade up, and you're actively putting aside for the next car that you trade up from there. That's kind of, that's how you break the cycle.

Yeah. That, Ben, you and your wife are at an inflection point, and this is just one of those people can, can, I mean, you can, you, I can follow a workout plan that's in front of me and I can just show up and do that thing every day and I can see the benefits. And I myself have never changed. My identity has never changed because I've outsourced who I'm going to be to whatever this piece of paper says. You can work the baby steps that way. We will just follow this plan. The baby steps will work 100% of the time. If you live on less than you make and you pay these things off in order, eventually you will get there. And so y'all have done that. This is an identity moment. Are we going to be a— are we a couple who, when the chips are down, we're going to go take out a loan and borrow money? Or are we a couple who come hell or high water, we will never borrow money. And that might mean I gotta buy a $2,000 Camry with 300,000 miles on it that's got hail damage, but that sucker's still just cooking.

And we're gonna pause all other spending.

We're—

wife's gonna take on a few more hours extra a week, whatever we gotta do. And we're gonna save up another 10 grand so that I can get myself a 2017 used, used Camry or used Toyota. And it's just one of those moments and I won't beat you up either way, but I want you just to own the choice. Uh, we're gonna make this choice. And what we've seen is folks who get to the very tip top of the mountain and they choose to walk back down. It's very, very hard to climb back up to the top again, to pay this.

If you went and took out a $12,500 loan today, oh, you would hate, you would hate the feeling of that.

And then you pay it, you like, you paying that off and then deciding to go back up. It's just, you're, you're kind of like, eh, We're here, might as well indulge, right? So it's just, it's just an identity moment, man, of who, who are we going to be in our house? And I hate that you're there, man. Like, that— the rust problem is real, dude. It is real.

Yeah, that's a bummer.

Um, yeah, and that was the frustrating thing for us was we, we've been saving $400 a month for cars specifically because we knew this was coming.

Yeah.

And we got—

but you didn't know it was coming this fast.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so we actually put $7,500 into our Roth, just thinking like, oh, we can start saving back up again. So now we're at the point where it's like we just put all this money in retirement, we don't want to take it back out, and now another vehicle. So sheesh, it's just unfortunate timing.

So can I just tell you, frustration's real. Your, your frustration's right. Yeah, y'all, you're not— you're not— you and your wife aren't bad folks for shaking your fist at the sky on this one. That's right.

Not at all.

It's, it's a bummer because y'all doing everything the right way. And then they tell you, oh no, it's not an engine issue. It's just that the bones are withering away. Like, that stinks, man. I hate that for you.

It really does. But it does bring up an important difference between sinking funds and saving. And sinking funds are something that we're doing all along. It's separate from our emergency fund. It's money that we're putting away just a little bit every month knowing I'm going to need new tires. Eventually, I'm going to need to replace this car. Emergency fund is for something that I don't foresee It's for something that I didn't know was happening. And when we look at it that way, it's easy to make sure that we have, we're continuing to save for the right things. If we just stop and go, emergency fund's done, now we can invest $7,500. Well, sinking fund says we're not ready to do that just yet.

Or we only have $2,500 to put in there.

That's right.

Listen guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. You get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling your money where to go. go so you can stop wondering where it went. So if you're going to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. And the easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the EveryDollar budget app. It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And guess what? It's free. So no excuses. Download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play today.

Today, did you file an extension for your 2025 taxes? The October 15th deadline will be here before you know it. I know you don't like me saying it, but it's true. And if your taxes are pretty simple, go ahead and use Ramsey SmartTax to finish filing before it's too late. Ramsey SmartTax is affordable and it keeps filing simple. Plus, it has built-in support in case you get stuck and need a little help. Remember, October 15th is your last chance to file and get that tax stress off of your shoulders. So go to ramseysolutions.com/smarttax and start filing now. Now, if you're looking at me going, Jade, I can't do my own taxes, that's okay. If you filed an extension and your tax situation is kind of complicated, complicated, or maybe you feel overwhelmed, go ahead and get a pro in your corner to help you out. And you want to do that before October 15th hits as well. With a pro, you're not the one who's battling the IRS on your own. You have some help in your corner. You'll be able to make a game plan for your unique situation or your business, and you'll be able to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by our Ramsey team.

So go to ramseysolutions.com/taxpro if you need a pro to help you. And just remember, you can also get free checklists and guides that will help you file if you go to ramseysolutions.com/taxresources. So you've got— I'm going to go through those again to make sure you get it. ramseysolutions.com/smarttax or ramseysolutions.com/taxpro or ramseysolutions.com/taxresources. You got it. All right. Olivia in Louisville, Kentucky is on the phone next. Hey, Olivia, how can we, can we Hi.

Yes, thank you. I am engaged to a wonderful man. We've been together about 7 and a half years. We've been engaged for about 4. We're getting ready to get married next year. And I just have a question really about how to approach him with saying, hey, what are we going to do financially? Are we going to join our money? We're going to not join our money? He has his. I have mine. Um, second marriage for me, third marriage for him.

Okay. What, what's the, um, what is the income disparity? What's the, what's the total wealth picture disparity?

Okay, so I make about $50,000 a year. I'm getting ready to retire next April. I will be 59 and a half at that point.

Okay.

He's 62. He makes about $350,000 a year.

Okay.

Um, he has $4 million inheritance. He has $2 million, um, in his IRA. I have $1.5 million in mine.

I would strongly recommend y'all sit down and do a prenup together to make sure the assets are— and here's why. Uh, y'all been together for 7 years, almost a decade. I trust that y'all, you know what you're getting into and he knows what he's getting into.

Right.

I'm more worried when you're talking that level of money. I'm more worried about something happening to him and his kids or his cousin or his brother's friend's roommate coming in and tying you up legally. And you don't have a place to live. You get what I'm saying? And, and so coming up with, here's the path. Do you, do you have kids to, from a previous marriage that you, you would take care of? I do.

Well, they're on their— they're, they're 27 and 26.

Okay.

Um, but I do, I do support them a little bit.

Okay. Well, I, I'm just saying, like, if, if something was to happen to either one of you, yeah, you're— you would both be okay because you both have significant nest eggs, right?

Right.

And so unless he wants to say, I just got this $4 million inheritance, I want to gift you half of it as my fiancée, or you wanna sit down with him and say, I think that should be ours, $4 million to build our life with.

Right.

It, it's just having that big conversation.

That $4 million is in a trust.

Okay.

So it is completely off the table.

Okay.

Because that's the inheritance, right?

Yes. So then he has another 2, close to $2.5 million.

Well, let me ask you a different question.

And then I have my $1.5 million.

Y'all, This is neither of y'all, this is your first rodeo. Y'all have been down, y'all have had hard conversations before. Y'all have messed, y'all, y'all have been in the throes of uncoupling legal relationships and y'all have been together for 7 years. What about this particular conversation are you nervous about?

I, uh, I don't want him to think I'm a gold digger, like, oh, so now we're getting to the money part of our relationship because I pay for my—

after 7 years.

After 7 years.

Yeah, I know.

So here's the thing, but he funds— I mean, he— we also have a home together, vacation home together, okay, that he paid for. That's $1.2 million.

Okay, so when you say we have it together, did you put any money into it or he just bought it and you both live there?

Correct. We— correct, we— yes, he bought it. He paid for it. Um, we still owe $600,000 on it.

When you say we, explain that to me, because you're saying sometimes it's you guys together and sometimes it's him. So if he bought it, I guess he owes the bill, right?

Unless he put you on the title.

Are you on the deed? I'm on the deed.

So you're on the mortgage too?

Yes.

Oh, you're on the mortgage too? Ooh, that's messy.

Yikes.

Okay.

And so, yeah, you, you, you, what you wanna do is like, I, this is where I think a prenup would be really helpful.

Yes.

For y'all because it allows you to sit down and say, I want us to do life together. Meaning I want us to have a single checking account that we're paying our bills out of, that we're paying light bills. Mm-hmm. And phone bills and grocery bills. I don't want us to be Venmoing each other money. Like, hey, you owe me for the light bill. And I want us to go into this thing with established who's covering what. And since you're on the hook for a half a million dollar mortgage right now on a second home.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And if something were to happen to him, you don't know that you'll get any piece of his wealth, but you will be on the hook for that mortgage.

And so I think it would be right to say, I want a piece of this just to clear the mortgage on this.

Right. I would probably have to sell the vacation home right now. He has a house, I have a house. And then there's another home, his mother's home, who's passed away in Michigan. So once we sell all our homes, and then we'll move into the vacation home, which will be our retirement home.

And then are you gonna take the sale of your home and put that in a trust that you've established, and he's gonna do the same on his side?

I don't know.

Okay.

Yeah, I think it's fair. I think it's fair to sit down with an attorney and say, we want to do— well, first I'd talk to him and say, what do we want to do here? Because— and just express some of the places where you feel exposed. He can express some of the places where he feels exposed. And then you guys can say, either we're going to do a trust or we're just going to say we're married and it's a 50/50 deal. And I'm willing to say that. I'm willing to put that on paper. Whatever we have when it goes down, it's split 50/50. And that's that on around that, that's fair too, right?

Right.

But I, I, I, I like the idea of you leading that conversation with, we— I want to have this big conversation. We're getting older. How old are you now?

Oh yeah, I'm almost 59.

Yeah, so we're getting up in our late 50s, early 60s. Like, it's time for us to have grown-up conversations. And I'm really nervous that you're gonna think I'm a gold digger, so I just want you No, I'm not.

He—

yeah, I know. And I said to him, look, if I was a gold digger, I would have married you after dating a year or a year and a half.

Has he ever joked about that? If it's come up before?

Um, yeah, a little bit.

So that's why you're like, how much of this is a joke and how much of this is a real worry of his, right? So that conversation needs to happen too. Are you worried that I'm a gold digger? Are you— you made this joke and I wasn't sure if it was a joke or not. I really want to talk about that. Because it's been sticking— it's stuck in my mind. And it's actually causing me to, like, reconsider having another conversation I really need to have with you. These are— I love, Olivia, that this is coming up. And I love that it's coming up before you're married. For you guys to have these real conversations to see, like, the full picture of who each other is and where they stand on these things is really important.

And here's what I— here's what I don't love, Olivia, what I don't love that after this long together, y'all haven't had this conversation yet.

I agree. It just, it just because the disparity has been so great and he funds, I mean, he, we go on vacations and I think that bothers you deep down.

I think you feel like a little like, like you owe him. Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think it's fair to say, hey, if I'm going to be your wife, we're doing this thing together. And if you're gonna be my husband, we're doing the same together. And also let's go ahead and just Clear things up so that we both know where we stand.

Yeah. Have that talk, Olivia.

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Our Ramsey Show scripture and quote of the day, Deuteronomy 31:8, the Lord himself goes before you and will be with you. He will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid and do not be discouraged. Good word. Brian Tracy said, character is the ability to follow through on a resolution long after the emotion with which it was made has passed.

Yes.

Wow, I love that. That's very good.

I need to hear that.

Very, very good. Alright, let's go to Matt, who's in Minneapolis, Minnesota. What's up, Matt? How can we help today?

Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

No problem.

So, just a quick question about retirement and our contributions. So, I have a pension. It takes out about 12% of my income towards that. We've been very diligent about doing our 15% into retirement. I'm kind of curious how much of that I should calculate into it.

I love this question.

I have a little backstory on our situation if that helps.

So typically with a pension, we say to take half of that and count that towards your 15%. And the reason for that is kind of twofold. Number one, a lot of times pensions, if you look at the rate of return that they're receiving, a lot of times they're not as high as what you would receive investing in the market on your own. So kind of covering your butt in that way is good. And then the other thing is, it's just good to work that muscle of, I'm used to investing this money on my own, because if you were to switch jobs and there wasn't investing being done for you in a pension, you'd be kind of blown away with, wait, how much money do I have to put aside to invest? So it kind of helps you acclimate to, this is what it feels like to invest 15% of my money, and I'm used to living off of that. So that's kind of the way we think about it. And for you, the other 6.5% that they're putting away. Um, it just feels like gravy.

Sure. Okay. That makes sense.

Fair enough.

Awesome.

All right. I'm gonna call this one done and done.

I love that.

I'm usually expecting more. All right.

Bye.

Gotta go eat a sandwich.

All right.

I love that question. All right. Rose is next. She's in Syracuse, New York. Hey, Rose, how can we help?

Hi.

Uh, so I, just to make a long story short, I failed the bar 4 times.

Oh no.

Yeah. Um, me too. I have a bit of test-taking anxiety when it comes to that exam. Now, what I'm wondering right now, I just started listening to Ramsey, uh, is should I, uh, retake it or should I focus on trying to start a business and trying to get my secondary income going? And so, uh, yeah, I'm wondering which path I should take at this point.

So Rose, I spent years as the Dean of Students at a law school. So I've, I know I've been with you guys as y'all are studying for this behemoth of an exam and this, like, I've, I've felt the stress ricochet through a building. So, um, tell me what you would do differently this 5th time studying for this exam.

Yeah. Um, so I, the last time I failed it, it was by about 10 points. And it's gotten progressively better, I'll say. And what I would do differently is I'd start studying— well, I started studying 3 months before for each of them. I'd start studying well in advance, probably take about 5 months. I would take another course. I took a course the last time and that helped a lot. And because what the problem is that when I start taking the exam, I— I just start thinking about how important it is and then my mind just goes blank.

Sure.

And so I would just practice, practice, practice to the point where I could take it in my sleep. And I've studied before, but yeah, so I do that.

The—

and it's been a few years, but the last I was closely involved with the bar prep world, the, the rate with which people took a prep course and just simply worked every one of the prep course problems, their pass rate was astronomical.

Mm-hmm.

Which was, I will, yeah, the courses are expensive. I'll take the course. I will just do all the problems. I will submit them. I'll just do what they tell me to do in, on the days they tell me to do it. And the pass rate was, I mean, the last I remember it was like in the high 90-something percent. Not a guarantee, but pretty dang close. Yeah.

Do what?

Yeah. Oh, I said it helped my score. Like, it got way higher. It didn't— I didn't pass, but it got way higher.

How much of the bar prep course did you actually do though?

I did 90%.

Okay, okay. So, and there's your 10— that might be your 10 questions, right?

Yeah, yeah. It's, it's really just me, the anxiety. Like, I just— my mind goes blank at times during the exam. You don't— you can't afford that.

Okay, so that's the second thing I want Okay. If possible, I want you to go utilize your resources at your law school. And if you can't, then, um, I want you to hang on the line and we're gonna hook you up with 3 months free with our friends over at BetterHelp. I want you to sit down with a professional mental health counselor and say, I have a very particular test anxiety that I wanna run right through the middle of and get some very clear guidance. Have somebody walk with you on this particular thing and give you some strategies, some self-soothing, some breathing exercises, whatever, to help you navigate this one hard challenge.

That would be great.

Okay.

Yeah. Um, yeah, that would be great.

But the, the, the path through anxiety, and this is some coming from somebody who struggled with it my whole life, the path for healing is right freaking through the middle of it. And that's scary because the closer you get to it, the louder the alarms get, the more you're going to fail, you're going to fail, and then, and then And then, and so we, we, we turn and we duck, right? The path is through it. And I've had to sit with a counselor to walk, have somebody walk with me. You do it. It'd be awesome. But if you're, if you're this close, I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't know what you stand to lose other than a couple thousand more dollars on a, on a prep course.

Yeah.

No, I, I would.

Yeah, I'll try that. Um, thank you so much. That would, that would, uh, so you don't, you don't think I should kind of put it aside, the I can't take that decision from you.

I'm not going to be somebody else who takes your agency and autonomy from you. I want you to look in the mirror and say, I want this this bad, or I want to take the skills of critical thinking, of being an outstanding writer, a person who cares for the least of these in our communities, whatever skills you took from your legal education, I think it makes you an absolute sword fighter out in the world. So you can take that and the skills you learned are transferable almost anywhere. And if that's what you choose to do, I don't wanna practice law anymore, but I wanna take these skills and go be ferocious out in the marketplace, go for it. But I don't wanna take that decision from you. I want you to look in the mirror and say, I really want to be an attorney for these reasons, or I wanna go start a business.

Okay.

Either way, what you've learned in your tenacity is gonna carry you far. You're already somebody who gets knocked down and isn't afraid to get back up. You've been knocked down 4 times. That's a lot of times to get hit, but you keep getting back up and dusting yourself off. That's the kind of person I wanna hire. That's the kind of person I want on my team who never gives up. But I also want somebody on my team, Jade, who's like, all right, that's, that's enough getting knocked down.

Yeah.

So, I bet one of the worst things about anxiety is people come in and try to rescue you from it instead of holding your hand and walking through it. And when you get rescued from it, your body gets the message, oh good, we got to avoid that thing that was scary, and it actually makes it stronger. And so heading through the middle of it is always the path. It's just a scary, scary path to take.

I mean, I, I for one hope that she pushes through because she says she's gotten progressively better every single And I mean, I almost wonder, is it like, you know, when you play sports and you just go through a slump and your brain is just like, you're just so in your head on everything that the tasks that you're like, I know how to do this. You're just not, you're just in your head so much.

I know this, one of the smartest guys I've ever met in my entire life, ever, ever, ever, a 35-year friend of mine named Mike. After he took the bar exam, I called him and said, how'd you do? And he And he said, dude, I have no idea. And so I have just seen people melt. And so I have to just trust this, this test is its own unique animal. But let's be honest, outside of law school, all of us have big, hard things, hard conver— like the hard conversation we just had about the money, um, with her, her future spouse.

Yeah.

The, like, we all have hard conversations with our kids, with whoever. The path is always ways right through it.

Yeah.

And it's just getting the tools and the path and maybe somebody to go with you, but that's always the path.

Well, Rose, we're definitely rooting for you. 5th time's a charm.

That's what they say. 5th time's a charm, Rose. Um, and hang on the line and we'll get you hooked up with 3 months for free with our friends over at BetterHelp and be very specific about what you want them to help you with and get on it.

I love that. Well guys, remember, ultimately there's only one way to financial Peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Amen.