Transcript of Normal Money Habits Don’t Build Wealth

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studios, this is The Ramsey Show. George Campbell, number one bestseller Bestselling author, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Dave is in Philadelphia. Hi, Dave, how are you?

Doing good, Dave and George. How are you doing?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

So I had my identity stolen and someone took out a student loan in my name. So I never attended the school authorized the loan. I've already tried contacting the loan company. physically going to the college, filing a police report, and disputing it, but the debt still showing up in my name. I was wondering if you had any recommendations for situations like this. Wow.

Well, to start with, you're aware that if someone falsely uses your name, you're not liable for the debt. You know that, right?

Yes.

Under any circumstances, do not pay this debt, period. Typically, what happens in an identity theft situation is, in order for the lender to do away with the false account, they need some proof that it's a false account, and you're going to have to have some interaction with them. Most of the time, you're going to file a police report, and you can send them a copy of the police report that says this occurred. It's identity theft. It's fraudulent criminal activity. But you're going to have to figure out who to get in touch with. Who's holding the loan?

It's called Ed Financial, is the name of the company.

Okay.

So is that a federal loan?

I think, yeah.

Or is it private?

I think it's a federal loan organization.

Okay. Because there's separate paths. If it's a federal loan, you should be able to go to studentaid.gov, and I've seen this happen before, and there's something called a false certification ID theft discharge, and you can file for that on studentaid.gov, and that might help the process to kind of bridge the gap between a police report and what you're dealing with.

Yeah, I would do that, and I would get a police report, and I would be in touch with the People holding the loan and badger the crud out of them until they get this thing fixed.

I'm hoping you've frozen your credit since then with all 3 bureaus.

I did freeze the credit, and I already took all the steps that you all recommended. So I was just curious if there's anything else you would suggest in doing it. Because, you know, I had to go back as far as— you might think it's crazy, but they made me pull my high school diploma to prove that I am who I say I am, even though someone else was able to easily get the loan in my name. Wow.

So why are they not taking it off if you did all that?

It was for $4,000 or $5,000. It was for about $5,000 total.

Are they giving you any reason that they haven't done away with the loan since they know it's fraudulent?

No, they haven't given me any reason that they haven't done away with it other than, you know, incompetence. I'm gonna send the same paperwork, the same paperwork I've already sent you, you know, kind of, kind of thing.

And how long has this been going on?

It's about 6 months. Okay, 6 months since I found out about it.

And you do not have— you do not have Zander's Identity Theft Insurance, I'm sure, because you would have told me they were already handling it, right?

No, no, I don't have any identity theft insurance.

Okay, well, this is the exact reason we endorse Zander's Identity Theft. It's not the notification. The, the identity theft product that they have assigns a counselor to the case, a caseworker, and they do all the crap. And they pound the lender until the lender removes the debt from your name and removes it from your credit report. And that's— the follow-through is— it's not that identity theft costs you any money, because you don't owe any money. It's all the hours lost of your life that you can't get back dealing with morons that work for a student loan company and can't get their head out of their butt. That's the problem.

That's where I'm at with it, too, right? It's been hours and hours of going through it.

Oh, yeah. You're just going crazy. Can you buy a product like that retroactively, or can you buy it No, you can't buy it retroactively, but I've sold millions and millions of them, and so they'll give me one occasionally retroactively for someone on the air, and we'll take care of you, okay?

Oh, you guys are the best. I appreciate that.

Yeah, we'll see if Zander will pick up and attach— see if they can do it. They usually can do it and attach to your situation and have their identity theft team address this with a counselor, with a coach, with somebody, a caseworker, to work the case through and try to— maybe they can put some pressure on that you hadn't been able to as an individual. We'll give that a shot.

And there are a couple things for anyone else out there going, I don't want this to happen to me. Freezing your credit with all 3 bureaus is a great start. Having Xander's ID Theft Protection is a great thing to have. And Dave, you cover it for every one of our team members. And I've had to actually use it. Back when I started here, I had this happen to me.

That's right, I forgot about that.

I had the pleasure of working with you.

You were a victim.

That's right. And someone opened 2 AT&T accounts, Verizon accounts in my name across the country. And I was on the—

Hey, you were a cell phone king for a minute.

I was like, how do you rack up $2,000 on a cell phone account? I have no idea. Standard, they handled it all for me. They just kept me up to date. Hey, here's what's going on. All right, it's gone now. You don't have to worry about it. Pulled the credit report. It was gone. So you're going to have to stay on top of this, Dave, to make sure that you pull the credit report, make sure it's gone, contact the lender, get everything in writing, document who you talked to, when you talked to them, what they said. And that's the kind of hassle that ID theft causes. And this is happening more and more, Dave, these student loan scams especially.

I haven't run into it with student loans as much. I didn't know that. I knew it happened with everything else. And here's a weird statistic. A large percentage of identity theft is from someone you know. Here's the gross ones. A kid turns 21, he's trying to get married and buy a house, and finds out that when he was 12, his mother took out 3 credit cards in his name. That's gross.

The closer it is to your own direct family, the worse.

If that's you, by the way, you're a criminal. That's called fraud, not to mention you're scum because you did this to your own kid, but you're a criminal if you're doing this. And so if your mommy did this, your mommy is a criminal. Yeah, that's just— because it's fraud. It's bank fraud. You're taking out a loan under false pretenses. It's go-to-jail time if somebody actually wanted to push it.

Yeah.

But they usually don't. They usually just write it off and call it a day. Here's the sad thing. If you don't have somebody like Xander, In these situations with the credit card companies, you call Citibank and go, this is not my card. I didn't open it up. The first thing they assume is you did take it out and you just don't want to pay the bill. And so they treat you as a victim like you are a predator.

Like you have to prove to them that you were not guilty as charged.

Exactly. You are guilty until proven innocent when you're dealing with Citibank or Chase or Fifth Third or these guys, because they're just scummy. Credit card departments are horrible on this stuff.

Well, I'm sure they get people who pay it anyways, because do they They just don't want to deal with it or they're scared?

Yeah, it's typically someone that is elderly will pay it anyway because they don't want to fight. They don't want to get into the argument, or someone that's young or immature and they just don't have the strength to push back and fight it through, because you pretty much got to get pissed off and go at them like a cat on their face scratching their eyes out.

It's a part-time job to deal with these guys.

I mean, you got to do it, and that's why we recommend Zander, so you just Turn Xander loose. You know, turn the Rottweiler loose on them, right? And they take care of it. So that's what you've got to do, is something like that. And I hadn't thought about it, George, but you brought it up. We haven't talked about it in a long time. If you're not borrowing money because you listen to this show and you're through borrowing money because you're smart, then freezing your credit bureau reports on all 3 of them today is essential. The first time they passed that law some 25 years ago, about 3 days later, I froze mine, my wife's, and all my kids, and they've never been unfrozen since.

You won't need to. That thing's going in the Ice Age, baby.

Yep. It's better than putting your credit cards in the freezer, I'll just tell you, because this one actually works. It doesn't prevent all identity theft, because some credit card companies issue a card without checking your credit. And if they don't check your credit, then the frozen credit doesn't come up. But if it comes up, it'll stop the whole thing.

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George, we're going cruising, man!

I was just looking at the photos from the last one, and it got me hyped again.

Oh man, that was a fun trip. The Ramsey Live Like No One Else cruise is a blast. We take over the entire ship. Only Ramsey people on there doing Baby Step 4 and beyond. If you're in Baby Steps 1, 2, and 3, you're getting out of debt, do not come. But if you're out of debt everything but your house, You're moved from intense to intentional. That's when we've always told you to go on vacation and live like no one else. So that's why we call it the Live Like No One Else Cruise. So it's a whole bunch of like-minded people all working on the same kind of stuff, thinking the same way, doing the world's largest debt-free scream. George is gonna be doing nerd events on investing. I'm gonna help.

Can't wait.

We're gonna do some wealth planning sessions, and Rachel will be speaking, Jade will be speaking, Deloney will be speaking. They're gonna— y'all are gonna do Smart Money Happy Hours, podcasts live.

Maybe even live Ramsey Show. We'll see.

Yeah, well, there's a— oh, look at that! It could happen.

Who knows?

Some Deloney After Dark. That was a hit last time. It was past my bedtime.

Deloney's always after dark.

But people stayed up for that one. That was fun. It really is a blast. They're the friendliest, nicest, most generous people. Even the, the crew on the boat was like, who are these people?

Yeah, we love them. So official, you have our permission and encouragement to join us March 14th through the 21st. We're going to go Western Caribbean, which is Jamaica, Grand Cayman, Bahamas, Cozumel. It's a great itinerary. It's on a great ship. It's on Holland America, which is one of the top-end, high-end ships. This is not the cheap stuff. This is the good stuff. Dave don't do Walmart on the seas. I'll just tell you, I don't do that. That stuff makes me gag. So no, this is like—

Classic.

Good food, good service, good people. You're gonna like the whole thing. And wow, they just put up a picture of the ship. It's nice.

Beautiful.

Yeah, there's gonna be like 2,500 of us on there. The last one was sold out. This one will be sold out. It's not yet. March 20— or March 14th through 21st coming up. And y'all, it's after Labor Day. This is going to be here in 20 seconds. We had a blast. We had so much fun. We did pop-up. We'd just be walking along and a stage was empty, and a couple of us would get up there and start answering questions and hanging out with y'all. We ended up having dinner with a bunch of you. We ended up doing all these things on the stage. We had church services that blew up.

They were Fabulous.

You couldn't get in.

And that's on top of all the normal cruise entertainment, which was fantastic.

Yeah.

So we brought our own thing to it, but man.

Yeah, all their stuff is there too.

If you're bored, that's your fault.

Yeah, it's— yeah, for sure. We just had a blast. Sharon and I'll be there. All the Ramsey personalities will be there. Natalie Grant, uh, absolute incredible Christian artist, will be our musical guest, and, uh, others as well. So you just don't want to miss this. It's going to be incredible. If you're Baby Step 4 and beyond, Be there. If you're not, you shouldn't be there. You need to be working on your stuff. We're not hypocrites. So ramseysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes. Stacy is in Des Moines. Hi Stacy, how are you?

Good, how are you guys?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

So I just kind of wanted to talk with you guys about how do we stop living paycheck to paycheck when it seems like every time we turn around something's wrong and we have to spend money. So to give To give you a little bit more context on that, my husband had to have an urgent tonsillectomy back in January of this year. Before that, we had our emergency fund, but we had to use part of that to pay for a surgeon or else they wouldn't do the surgery. Fast forward to April, we finally got our emergency back up to $1,000. And then my son had to get tubes put in his ears because he gets recurrent ear infections. Oh, my gosh. So again, same thing with that. We had to take out of the emergency fund because we just couldn't afford it. And in our eyes, it was for his health. I mean, he's not even 2 yet. That kind of trumps everything, taking care of my baby. Um, so then felt like we were doing good, and then our car, one of our cars, the brakes went bad on it. We had to replace the brakes, the rotors.

That was just $1,200. And it seems like every time we take a step forward, we take 2 steps back.

Hmm.

Okay.

Do you have health insurance?

We do. Okay. Yep.

So why would a surgeon with health insurance require prepayment?

I honestly don't know. They did it for my son's tube surgery as well. And we went— we even contacted another surgeon to make sure, like, it wasn't just this one clinic, and they said the same thing. Um, we had to pay 50% up front And then we could do a payment on the other one, and that's just for the surgeon. That wasn't even for like hospital fees.

No, you don't pay for the surgeon. The insurance pays for the surgeon.

I don't know. That's just what they told me.

Yeah, well, maybe you just quit taking everybody's opinion about stuff and find out what the flip's really going on. Maybe that's the emergency. I have health insurance. It pays for surgeons. What's wrong with you people? Now, if they're talking about out of your deductible, that you need to pay your deductible upfront or something, that wouldn't be unusual, and that could be the $1,000. And the surgeon should be way more than $2,000 for a tonsillectomy, and the tubes should be way more than $1,000 too. So in all cases, insurance did kick in. Yeah, that's what I was wondering, if it was out of the deductible. Yeah, it did kick in at some point, but You've got to take control of these situations and make sure you understand and you're telling people what to do instead of them telling you what to do. And that helps in a lot of these cases, particularly the medical community, because some of them are just straight up financially stupid.

I agree.

And they will take you places you don't want to go. So you've got to plug in and understand why these charges are there before they occur. I don't think you've been ripped off. It doesn't sound like it. It sounds like you just had a run of things coming at you. So I don't think you have a choice. You just keep doing what you're doing, and eventually you're gonna get the other side of some of these emergencies. The brake rotors were not an emergency. They were a recurring repair. Brakes go out and car repairs happen.

Yeah, and I can't even do anything about it.

Do what?

Yeah, they apparently, they were bad for a while, and I just Kind of kept putting it off.

That squeaking thing you ignored. Yeah, yeah, that, that's what happens. And then that makes it like twice as expensive when you don't go get it done before you get into the rotors. And so, yep.

But just know that this is normal. When you are broke, it's hard to have good luck. And when you've got that emergency fund, all of a sudden you start having less emergencies because you start taking care of things. You're ahead of things. You're proactive instead of reactive. So this is a normal part of the journey. Now, all these things at once, it sounds like the universe is against you, But just know those are in the past. We're not gonna have another tonsillectomy. We're not gonna need more tubes put in. The brake rotors are fixed. So now let's get ahead of this thing and move even faster so that we can stay ahead instead of moving 2 steps back, like you said.

Yeah, and what if all these 3 things had happened and you had no money because you were living like you used to live? Yeah, you'd really been screwed then. So thank God you're on a plan because it limited the damage it did to your life. It just damaged your plan and gave you an emotional setback. I keep having to start I keep having to start over. But George is right. That is normal. And the more you work on this and the more debt you get rid of, the more room you have in your budget, and the faster you're able to go back to Baby Step 3 and finish the emergency fund, the faster you're going to see these emergencies evaporate. George, I'll tell you that our experience with working with thousands and thousands of families, including my own, is exactly what you said. Thing one is you get more room in the budget. And so a $500 item used to be an emergency, and now there's that much room in the budget. So it's no longer an emergency. So what qualifies as an emergency starts to go down. Thing 2 is you get ahead of things like preventative maintenance on your heating and air system.

You come out and have it checked once a year instead of waiting on the whole thing to freaking blow up. Or you have the car checked as soon as you hear a squeak, and you fix it before the brake pads are worn out and you get into the rotors. And you keep your oil changed. And you do this— And you have a sinking fund for things that happen. And you start to have money set aside for this and money set aside for that, and you have an emergency fund. And so once we got to the room in the budget and the fully funded emergency fund, I don't know if we've ever touched the emergency fund again.

You just cash flow the ones that keep coming in?

I think we've cash flowed the things that came up after that. And so that's the future, but for right now, Stacy's still in it to win it, and she can push through.

That's right.

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Good. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I just need a little bit of direction with how we can get back on track. Long story short, there was a point where my husband and I were debt-free and we purchased a home. Then we went back into the, I guess, cycle of getting back into debt. So the last few years we have been trying to kind of catch up to that on top of some medical expenses that have come up throughout that time. And most recently we just had a baby, so that kind of added more to the medical expense. So trying to figure out what should we prioritize when it comes to debt and how do we organize our finances that way.

I'm curious, when you guys bought this house, were you debt-free with an emergency fund?

We actually had leftover money. We both sold each property that we owned and we did a 20% down payment. We had leftover $15,000. And then it just kind of went away in less than 6 months. We didn't really manage it properly.

OK. I'm trying to figure out why you guys backslid because I don't want it to happen again, even if we get out of this pile of debt. So lay out the debts that you guys currently have.

So currently we have about $26K in credit cards, um, and then, uh, 2 vehicle loans, one that we're almost done with at $2,500 and another at $20,000 that we just purchased, and then about $60,000 in student loans.

I, I don't think you're going to get out of debt because I think you like debt. I think you like buying stuff you can't afford. You just went out and bought $26,000 worth of crap on plastic after you bought a house, went through $15,000, and bought 2 cars.

And added some student loans.

And then tell me you want to get out of debt. You don't want to get out of debt. You love it.

Hey, perspective does change once you do have a child.

Oh, now we're gonna be a grown-up.

Okay.

Touché. I will take that one. I will take that one. Good answer.

Okay, so were the student loans there before all this?

Because you said you were debt-free.

So did you add the student loans Loans into the mix after the house?

Yes. No, actually, that was before the house. So I kind of—

So you weren't debt-free?

I didn't invest.

Okay.

I'm not trying to do a gotcha. I'm just trying to get the full picture.

I've already done the gotcha.

Dave's there.

That's my job.

Okay. What's your household income?

So I bring in about $6K a month. And then my husband, it varies since he's like his own boss in a way. So he's a contractor. And it can vary anywhere between $2,000 to $6,000 per month for him, but it's variable. Okay.

What does he make most months?

Most months, I would say at least 6 months out of the year, he would make anywhere between $4,000, maybe $4,000 and $5,000.

Okay.

All right, good. I like that. Okay, so you're making $10,000 a month, and you had a baby, and you want to clean this mess up. Good for you.

Yes.

And then set up maybe future for baby, because we're not necessarily spring chickens. We are We're about in our 30s, late 30s, early 40s.

Yeah, you're ancient.

Um, yeah, I just hurt Dave's feelings.

Yeah, all right, it's okay.

Dave's a winter chicken, I guess, at that point. But the key is here, if you want to set your kids up, you got to set yourselves up first. You know, when you get on that airplane, they say put your own mask on first because you can't help anybody if you're out for the— down for the count. So you have to clean this debt up before you save a dime for that child. And there's plenty of To build wealth for that child and change that family tree.

No reason to panic. We have a new perspective. I think you're gonna be okay. List your debts smallest to largest. Get on a budget. Never go out to eat again until you're 100% debt-free except your house. Never go on vacation again until you're 100% debt-free except your house. All of the whining you're getting ready to do when I said that, you just need to look at your little baby and say, now I'm a grown-up. I have to take care of this baby, and so I have to sacrifice living Like I'm in Congress and spending money I don't have. You're broke and you need to clean up the freaking mess and you need to concentrate on it like it matters because it does. And then you promise yourself and each other that if anyone mentions debt in this house, we're gonna punch each other. Never again. You can't wander back into debt again. Okay. If you go through all this struggle and this sacrifice to get out, and it's gonna be hard, But if you're making $10,000 a month with the debts you gave me, you can be debt-free in a year, year and a half.

But you're not doing nothing else. Beans and rice, rice and beans. And whatever you were gonna spend on the nursery that the little kid doesn't even know is there, you can't spend. They have a place to sleep. Shut up. You need to get out of debt. Cut up the credit cards too, tonight. Have you got them with you?

No, we already got rid of those. So we've been working on this a couple months.

Where did they go when you got rid of them? You chop them up?

Chop them up in the trash.

Okay, good, good. Okay, good. Yeah, because being in the freezer doesn't count. Chopping them up is the only way they're gone. All right, and then you get— and get in attack mode. What's your smallest debt out of all the debts you're talking about? You listed you got $2,500 on a car, $2,000 on a car, you got $26,000 in miscellaneous credit cards. Give me your smallest credit card.

About $1,600.

Good. I want you to do that next month. Should be gone.

Do you guys have $1,000 saved right now?

Yes.

How much do you have saved?

We got about $2,000 saved right now.

Okay. Well, then what's your next smallest debt after the $1,600?

I'd probably say the car, just looking at my list.

The $2,500?

The $2,500 car, yeah.

That's excellent. Okay. So that's gone next month because the $1,000 is coming out of this account and $600 is coming out of your checking account, paying off the credit card tonight. That's your smallest debt. And then we're gonna attack the car next month, and it should be gone next month.

That's 2 payments you just freed up.

And every time you do that, you're gonna feel like, I can do this. I can do this. Because you can do this. But it's just a matter of focus. And you just say, the future of our family tree, we want to change our family tree. We now have a noble motivation. As you said, perspective has changed. Well, lean into that, kiddo. You can do it. And here's the thing, if you add up what you're paying out in payments, not counting your house payment, if you just put that in a mutual fund from your age until retirement, you're gonna be a multimillionaire. That's how aggravating what you've done is. So you've got to undo it and get your life back. And when you do that, you're gonna win with millions of dollars. I mean, it's— these 2 car payments alone will be millions of dollars at their age. But you never borrow again. Ever.

Which means we don't own a credit card anymore. We freeze our credit. We have no access to it.

And next time someone says something about a car, you just go, oh, well, we've got one. When we have the money to buy a better one, we will buy a better one with cash, or we will not buy a better one. Once I understood how much the car payment is worth when I turn— when I, you know, if I'm 30 to 65, I decided I'd ride a bicycle before I had another car payment.

Because that car isn't costing you $40 grand, it's costing you $4 million over your lifetime of not investing that payment. And most people go, must be nice, Dave, to be able to invest $500. And I go, what's your car payment? They go, $550. I go, oh, okay, looks like you just prioritized your car.

Must be nice to invest something, invest $500 a month in something that's going down in value. Well, that's dumb. Welcome to America. So the rule is this: if you want to be normal, you— it's easy to be normal in America. It's 2 car payments, a student loan, and credit cards you can't afford, and you're looking at your baby wondering how they're gonna go to college. That's normal. In order to be wealthy in America, you have to be unusual. You have to be weird. So be weird. Don't be normal. Normal sucks. That's everybody, not just you, Alyssa. That's all of us. And so, as a matter of fact, on most things in life you can say that. Figure out what everyone else is doing and look at their results. You're like, I don't think I want to look like that. I'm not eating that. I don't think I want a marriage that looks like that. I'm not gonna treat my wife that way. I don't think I want my children to act that way, so my children aren't going to act that way. I mean, it's a weird thing, you know, but I mean—

It is.

I mean, unusual is a good thing in a culture that's lost its dadgum mind. So yeah, be weird. Be weird. Be weird in everything.

Normal is broke.

Successful is— success is weird. Normal is not successful. Normal's just, I got by and it's okay and I've kind of made it through. And that's not, that's not successful though. If you're successful, you're weird, but you did the hard things to become successful. And the hard things are what we just told Alyssa to do. And I think she might do it, I have hope. I was kind of picking on her there. It was kind of fun. And she— good for her, she came back at me.

That's what it takes. That's why she called you.

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Good, how are you guys?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

I am a young business owner with a young business that's starting to bring in more money than I expected it would.

Yeah.

Right. And I'm wondering, how do I know what to allocate towards my business versus what to keep and invest in, like, myself?

Hmm, that's a great question. Um, you've got to do a little bit of forecasting, and that's not anything complicated. Just look into the future. What kind of business are you in?

I sell used jewelry online, so silver and gold jewelry mainly.

Okay. And what are you making? What's your—

what's your income per Um, gross, it was $7,000 profit, and then the month before was $5,000.

And that's profit that includes the cost of the item?

Yep, that's profit after item costs, uh, shipping costs.

Okay, so if you made— if you sold $7,000 worth of profit, what was the total sale price of everything?

So last month I did $12,000 revenue.

Okay.

A $7K profit.

Okay, so you're doubling your money on what you put into the pro— into the product when you can find it.

Correct.

Okay, so you buy something for $5,000 and you're selling it for $12,000.

Correct.

Okay, so when you sell it for $12,000, obviously you don't take $12,000 home. You got to put $5,000 back out there to do it again.

Yes.

That's your minimum.

Okay.

And then you can look at it and say, if I want to go a little bit more, do I want to go $7,000 and increase my, you know, increase my inventory? As long as I'm making a profit on the inventory every time, we can have a gradual thing to increase the inventory. What I've always done and what I've recommended to small business owners is to use a percentage and say, okay, Okay. I made $7,000 of profit. 20% would be $1,400. 30% would be $2,100. So if we said something like, I'm gonna take 30% of my profits plus my cost of goods sold, In other words, you take $12,000 minus the $5,000 plus 30% of your profit would be another $2,000. You follow me?

Yeah.

And put that in, and I'm taking everything else home. And then you're always raising your inventory. You're going up all the time, pretty dramatically actually, if this continues. What you're probably gonna run into though is finding cheap inventory that you can make that kind of margin on. You may not be able to do that at $70,000, but you can do it at $7,000.

Right.

And so, uh, but anyway, until you hit that curve, till you hit a point of diminishing returns, I'd run just a percentage of it on reinvesting and take everything else home.

Okay. Okay. Because that was my biggest, like, worry was like, am I investing too much of my money back into inventory right now?

Only if you're buying inventory that doesn't sell.

That's true.

How much is sitting out there right now?

Um, I have about $30,000 in potential revenue.

Okay, in revenue. And so the inventory cost on that's about $15,000 or $14,000, right?

Yeah, give or take. Yeah, the margins are pretty—

How long— how old is some of that inventory? How— what's your turn rate on it?

Uh, I think my oldest piece of inventory is less than a year That's a long time in that world.

Yeah, yeah, you got too much tied up in that one. You wouldn't buy that one again. You don't buy that one again, right?

Correct. Yeah, and that's what I was kind of wondering too. Should I, like, because it's precious metals, should I just take like all that old inventory and just go melt it?

Whichever way you can get the most money for it the fastest. If you just either discount it and sell it or melt it, which way do I get the most money? And I wouldn't be sitting on stuff for a year in your world. About a 90-day turn rate, you need to be in and out of that stuff. And you need to very carefully be a nerd, analytical about what types of inventory are not turning, and stay away from that like the plague.

Okay, because you might think, I can get a deal on this and I can flip it for double, but if it sits for a year—

Now, now your fund's gone.

Yeah, it's wrapped up money.

Exactly. It's just sitting there, um, waiting to be melted. And so Yeah, that, that's the thing. So you're not gonna get burned on it, but the trick, the trick is the, the churn rate or the, the flip rate of your money, your inventory turnover rate. That, that's where your money is. I mean, so if you can do this every single month, if you could do it on a 30-day rotation and make the margins you made on 12 over 7, you know, or 12 over 5, then that's incredible margins. But when you start holding stuff for a year, those margins start to disappear.

Your average margin starts to go down.

It starts to go way down. Yeah, and so you've got to, you got to hit, you got to, you know, you got to pick hits and not B-sides. So that's what we're looking for, and get that stuff rolled over. That's a cool question, Zach, and congratulations. It sounds like you're doing really well. If you never even grow it, you're making pretty good money. That's not bad at all. And, you know, and it didn't cost you a lot to start up, just some of your initial priming of the pump, so to speak.

Yeah.

So hey, I'm gonna give you a copy of the latest bestseller I did called Building a Business You Love, and it'll help you with some of the other questions you're gonna have as you grow this. Trevor's in Orlando. Hi, Trevor.

How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I'm currently living with my parents. I just actually paid off my last student loan today.

Congratulations!

Thank you. You're a free man! Finally. And I'm trying to figure out if it's worth me staying here for a little bit to get my emergency fund up And then go renting an apartment? Or should I get my emergency fund up and then save for a house?

How old are you?

I'm 34.

How much do you make?

I make about $71,000 a year. Cool.

How long would it take to save up a full emergency fund with very little expenses?

6 months.

6 months, even while living at home?

What do you make?

Yeah, I'm sorry?

What do you make?

So I bring home $5,700 a month.

Where the flip is all that going?

So it's been paying off bills, um, debt up until now. So every 2 weeks I have— I'm married, I have 3 kids. Oh wow. What, what, what?

Wait a minute, stop, stop, stop. Okay, you're 34, you make $71,000 a year. And you're married and have 2 kids or 3 kids?

3 kids.

3 kids. And you live with your parents?

Yes, sir.

Why?

So I didn't always live with my parents.

I'm guessing that.

I got a job in Panama City and I decided that I needed a career change, so I quit my job, moved in with my parents so I could go to school full-time. I'm now a nurse. And so they were nice enough to let me, let me stay here while I got through school. That's a good story.

I like that story, and I like where you got to. You ended up being a great nurse, and now you need to go out and have a life again, my son. It's time to leave mommy's house. Yes, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go! Get an apartment now.

Okay.

What's an apartment gonna cost you in your area?

Um, I can get a townhouse for about just under $1,500 a month.

Perfect. Great. Does your wife work outside the home?

No, she's a stay-at-home mom.

Okay, when was the last time she worked outside the home?

Um, back in '19.

What did she do then?

Um, she was a receptionist for an ophthalmologist.

Okay, I want her to find a side hustle that she can do from home while taking care of her kids to add some money to this equation so you guys can save up a really big down payment really quickly and get out of that apartment.

Sweet.

Oh, and by the way, you're a nurse. You passed your bars?

Yeah, so I'm a registered nurse. I've been doing this for a little over a year.

Oh man, you can make so much money, but you're gonna be working all the time. I mean, you can pick up ER shifts on the weekend on triple time.

Yeah, I'm, I'm actually still going to school. I have to go back for my bachelor's, so I'm doing that right now as well.

Why?

Uh, it's a contract with the hospital.

Your bachelor's is a contract with a hospital?

Yeah, when I signed on, it's a requirement to get it within 3 years.

Oh, hmm, okay. And you can work overtime because nursing is everywhere. There's a shortage. You can make all so much money as a nurse. RN is a— it's a— you can write your ticket, man.

It's like unlimited money.

Wonderful place. And you don't have to work like that the rest of your life, but if you want to get out of that apartment and get out of mama's house and get this— get all this stuff in your rearview mirror It's all the things we did in the past in order to win. The more you work, the faster you do that. And so if I'm in your shoes, I'm busting it, and Mama's got a side hustle she's doing from home with the kids, and we're stacking cash in the corner, and we're gonna get us a house. But go get an apartment this week.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. George Campbell is my co-host today. Lisa is in Arkansas. Hi, Lisa. How are you?

Good. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I had a question about budgeting. My husband and I have been married for 2 years, yet we have a separate bank account. I was wondering how I could get my husband on the same board of budgeting.

Okay. Um, why do you have separate bank accounts?

Um, That's the tough problem. Um, if we combined our money, he would spend 80% of it. Um, he's not a type of person to budget, I guess. So I'm just trying to ask for advice on that.

Okay, I'm confused about where all this is going. Um, so you're, you're afraid he's going to spend all the money, but you want to combine the accounts?

Right. I—

so for— he has investments. He invests about 80% of his money towards, uh, cards, specifically Pokémon, since that is kind of one of his topics that he likes to work on and stuff.

Yeah. How old is this man?

Uh, he's around 35 and I am 27, so there's about 7, 8 years apart.

How does he invest 80% of what he makes?

What do you all live Um, we actually work at a company, um, that is very beneficial to us where they pay for all the housing, utilities, even the car that we drive, and they pay for gas weekly.

And what is the job?

Uh, we work at a real estate company and we work and fix houses, and I work in the office.

And so you don't have a housing expense, you don't have one car expense, Um, but, uh, you still have to eat and other things, and he spends 80% of his money on Pokémon cards and he's 36.

Yes, sir. Um, from—

Sounds like a 14-year-old.

Kinda, yeah.

How much in Pokémon cards does he have?

Um, oh goodness. Um, his portfolio is $33,000.

And how long has he been doing this?

Uh, for 2 years.

So since you've been married, and probably before you were married, this was his thing, and he went, hey, this is my thing, you don't get to tell me what to do, this is my money.

It kind of started when we got married. We went to a store like, like 2 weeks after our marriage, and we just got a tin because we were just curious. We— yeah.

This makes me, this makes me very sad for both of you. Because it sounds very juvenile, and you're giggling about it, so it makes me sad too. But you guys— have you said to him, we need to be grown-ups and start investing in grown-up things, and we need to actually combine our money and start being humans and adults and that kind of stuff? What does he say when you have these discussions?

So I'm the person who actually sits down and budgets everything. Um, I have made lists and everything, uh, multiple times.

No, that wasn't what I asked. I asked when you had a conversation with him, what does he say?

Oh, he agrees. And—

No, he didn't.

Just, he agrees verbally, but maybe throws in like $100 or $200 maybe every other month.

And now this changes today. Your entire paycheck goes into our checking account. My entire paycheck goes into our checking account, and the two of us sit down today and we decide where our money's gonna go. Spoiler alert: Pokémon cards aren't on the list.

I agree with that.

How's that conversation sound?

I've actually tried that conversation at least 3 times and have asked friends to encourage him to help me with this.

You need marriage counseling.

I agree.

He's addicted to this card game.

You need to go get on the phone and talk to your church and talk to your pastor and set up a marriage counseling session. If he won't go, go by yourself, because you've married poorly. And this guy has— the only chance that you guys stay together is that he starts a process by which he becomes an adult. And an adult looks at their wife and says, you are my primary concern. A wife adult looks at her husband and says, you are my primary concern, not my juvenile habit of buying Pokémon cards. That's way down the freaking list of things to do. Okay? And it's not an investment and it's not a portfolio. It's a habit. And so, I mean, this is the same people call me in the old days and said, you know, we're collecting Beanie Babies because that Princess Di Beanie Baby is gonna be worth something someday. Yeah. And so we actually got out— my son, who's 35, we found his Pokémon cards from his 12-year-old days the other day.

Might be sitting on a gold mine.

He had a portfolio when he was 12.

Wow.

What an astute investor he was.

And now his 4-year-old has a portfolio and plays with them, which is the appropriate thing to do, with $50 Pokémon cards, because he looked them up to make sure there wasn't a $50,000 one in there.

And there wasn't.

Just for the fun of it. And there wasn't, because that's how this kind of thing works. Okay? It's all bullcrap. And so the chances of you being in the collectibles business and actually making good money, whether it's baseball cards, Pokémon cards, gold coins, rare coins, art, all of these things that you think you know something about, most people don't. And most people simply break even at best. Beanie Babies are not an investment for your kids' college fund. That's a statement I made 30 years ago, and it has been proven to be very true. The only thing that Beanie Babies are good for these days are for the dog to play with. It came in with Princess Di in its mouth the other day. So there you go. And that was the one that was supposed to be worth $10,000, and the dog's very happy to carry it around the house.

We had a call of an 18-year-old who had $600,000 worth of Pokémon cards. And so John Delony and I took this call and I told him, dude, you need to—

Was it real or was that a troll?

These people exist.

It was a troll.

They're claiming it was real.

Kelly, the producer, is saying it's real.

But we clipped it and the subculture of Pokémon people came after us saying—

No way, you got the horse people and the Pokémon people after you. And the Bitcoin people. And the Bitcoin people.

They're all cut from the same cloth, which is, this is an investment, you can't tell me otherwise, and you don't understand it, you haven't studied it enough. Look at the track record of Pokémon over time and it's better than the S&P 500.

Oh my God.

It's insufferable. So I realized I got right there in the mud with the pig and I got dirty and the pig liked it.

Yeah, that's it. That's the whole thing.

It was a losing battle.

Yeah. Well, so here's the thing. You call here for help and we're going to give you the help that is time-proven and time-honored. And the number of millionaires that I met became millionaires due to Pokémon cards is really close to the number zero, like it's there, zero. And I've met millions and thousands, tens of thousands of millionaires, and I've met hundreds of billionaires, and not a single Pokémon billionaire have I run into. Not a one, except maybe the guy that invented the whole thing. He might be a billionaire.

Yeah, the team behind Pokémon's crushing it because they sold— Because they understand the game.

They understand the game.

They know scarcity.

The game is selling to her, Lisa's husband. That's the game.

Target demographic used to be children. Now it's children and adults.

Now it's children. I mean, he's still— he's got the Star Wars action figure collectibles too.

That might be worth something.

No, George, no.

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Today's question comes from Hudson in Connecticut. I'm getting married soon and we're negotiating a prenup. My fiancée has over 6 figures in student loan debt and the agreement would make me responsible for those loans once we're married. even requiring me to continue paying the remaining balance if we were to divorce. In exchange, we've agreed that the assets I bring into the marriage will remain completely separate. Is this a fair trade-off? Should I be willing to take on her premarital debt in exchange for protecting my premarital assets, or are we setting up a marriage where we're keeping score instead of truly becoming financial partners? Well, there's some self-awareness here, so that's good.

The last line is the most hopeful line.

Yeah, nothing about this sounds romantic. I mean, you're saying, I'll pay off your debts. I don't know what your assets are, if we're talking millions and millions in real estate or $50,000 in a checking account. So it's hard to know exactly where this trade-off is.

Or what the balance is on the student loan.

Yeah, it just says over 6 figures. But here's how I see it. Once you're married, it's our debt. You pay off the debt. The assets are our assets. We build wealth from there. That's how I've seen couples win with money. I've never seen it where it's tit-for-tat and they go, well, this was mine from before, so I'm keeping my house. I think that is a losing game in the long run unless there's a huge discrepancy where you're coming in with millions and millions and she's got nothing.

Okay, let's, let's use some pretend figures and try to address an actual tactical thing here. Okay, let's pretend that he has $2 million in mutual funds and she has $100,000 in student loan debt.

Okay.

If I were in that situation on either side, I would not have approached this as we are negotiating a prenup. That's a bad phrase to use with your fiancée. Okay. It's, I want to design something that makes us both feel great about our future. That's not negotiating a prenup. This is not a Business transaction. You've reduced it down to that with the phrasing you're using. The words you're using are really scary. And you, as you said in your last sentence, I'm keeping score. So if I woke up in that situation, George, the prenup would simply read that I have $2 million in mutual funds, and if we get divorced, we split everything beyond $2 million, and I get $2 million. and the day we're married, I'm gonna pay off the student loan, period. And then we don't have to worry about it.

That would be simpler.

You're not on the hook for the student loan. If you have substantial assets and she has well over $100,000 in student loan debt, you write a check the day after the honeymoon and you pay cash, you pay off her student loan. It's done. So it doesn't need to be part of the prenup. You can state that in the prenup if you want, that upon return from the honeymoon, we will write a check that day and pay off the student loan. But that's just a practical thing. And because When you took her on, dude, you took on $100,000 in student loan debt. And if she's not worth that, then you're very transactional and you need to walk away from the whole thing. Period. That's the way I feel about it. What are you thinking when you're seeing this?

I mean, yeah, we've seen couples who go, hey, this is scary. And then we've seen the ones who go, you know what? I loved her and I wanted to marry her regardless of how much debt it was. And I knew there was gonna be a little bit of a mountain to climb. It would take me back a couple steps to use my savings to knock out the debt, but it was all worth it. Those are the marriages that I see that will win. I go, that's a couple that's gonna stick together. So it's not to say that this marriage can't work, but I think starting off on this foot makes me go, how much else are we going to keep separate?

Yeah, even requiring me to continue paying the remaining balance if we were to divorce, which there would not be a remaining balance in my scenario because you've got substantial assets and you paid off—

You paid off immediately.

You don't pay off a student loan. You don't keep it like it's a freaking pet.

pet.

We destroy the thing immediately. Sally Mae is an ugly old woman with a wart on her nose. Get her out of the house. You do not want her in your house. You do not want a spare bedroom for this chick. She's not family, and she's evil. She's from the government, and anybody that's from the government is not here to help. So there you go. That— this is, this is how this works. So yeah, But I think you guys have deeper problems in your relationship based on the way this is written.

Yeah. Regardless of the numbers, the phrasing makes it seem like—

It's really creepy.

You're walking in with arms up, with a shield up.

Yeah. If my daughter was on the receiving end of this, I would tell her to run away from you because everything with you—

Not into your arms.

Everything is going to be a transaction with you, Hudson, is what it sounds Sounds like, based on this letter. Now, I may be overreading it, but the way this is worded—

With no tone.

Is creepy. Jeremy's in Little Rock. Hi, Jeremy, how are you?

Doing fine, Dave. George, how y'all doing this blessed afternoon?

Better than we deserve, sir. How about you?

Y'all doing well, by God's grace. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Uh, just a 5-second backstory. I have many flaws. My wife will back me up on that. But one of my biggest flaws is the fear of running out. You pick it. I'm scared of running out. So with that said, um, my wife and I have a mutual— excuse me, IRAs and a brokerage account.

Okay.

And last week we had the privilege of attending, uh, you and George's Investing Essentials, and we have watched and rewatched and rewatched that thing.

Wow.

We really enjoyed it. Yes, sir. And, um, long story short, our mutual fund or our IRAs and our brokerage account for years has just been sitting in money market.

Wow.

Why?

Uh, yeah, we've, uh, we, we've, we've matched inflation, but that's all it's done.

What spooked you to the sidelines? Was it ever invested?

No, no, it's just been in mutual funds. I believe the world's been shaved by a drunk barber, and I'm always scared that Chicken Little is my nickname. Okay. So yes, but after watching the Investing Essentials, um, we've got peace and we're ready to move on into the 4 categories of the mutual funds.

Good. Okay.

Okay. So we have met with a SmartVestor Pro. I'm not ignorant in all this. Um, so my wife and I, even before the first night was over, jumped on the website that holds our IRAs. And we found 4 good categories that equal 12.45% with mutual funds that date back to 1981.

Good.

Okay.

Well done. We told you you could do it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So, so, okay. So my question basically comes down to, I think I'm looking for a nickel when it's raining $20 bills. The— I don't, we don't feel comfortable giving 5 figures to a SmartVestor Pro when we can do this ourselves. But when we, when we called, I'll just go ahead and say it. When we called Vanguard who holds the IRAs, they have a subcompany called Ascensus who holds the SEP and the SIMPLES. That's what we have, SEP and SIMPLES.

Yep. Yeah.

And they don't offer, they don't offer the mutual funds that we want to invest that match up with y'all's teachings. Charles Schwab, who owns our brokerage account, will offer those, but they have what we call a transaction fee.

Yep.

Yep. So y'all, what's y'all's opinion on paying the transaction fee if everything lines up with what we learned in the Investing Essentials?

I would use a SmartVestor Pro instead and pay the management fee that is there, that's part of it. And that's what I do, by the way, and what George does. And the reason is, is that you've got somebody in your corner. You're DIYing it with personal customized advice while you DIY it.

Right.

Right now, you just walked out into the wild and you found 3 You found 3 mutual funds in the woods that work, but there's a lot of trees in those woods. And so, um, I, you know, there's 8,000 mutual funds. I know a lot about this, and I don't go through all 8,000 to pick mine. It's too— I don't want to spend my time doing that. I want my guy to look at it, and I have found that what little I pay them is worth every penny.

You've lost way more on sidelines, the stock market doubled in the last 5 years. And so if that money was sitting in money market, trust me.

Yeah, he's ready to go though. He's ready to get in. So now let's get him in.

Let's trust the guy who can do it.

But I wouldn't just, you know, Vanguard's great. Charles Schwab, I don't know, I'm not mad at Charles Schwab. I personally would get somebody in my corner that I can sit down and talk to that regularly is looking at this with me to give me good, strong advice. When it comes to your health insurance, one of the biggest mistakes you can make is believing you're stuck in a one-size-fits-all plan that costs too much and covers too little. That's why I recommend HealthTrust Financial. They're the only Ramsey trusted health insurance partner because their advisors take the time to understand your situation and help you explore the coverage options that are available to you. Whether you've changed jobs, welcomed a new baby, or had some other life event, HealthTrust Financial shops multiple top-rated insurance carriers for you. Then they help you understand your options so you can make a smart decision instead of Guessing. I've recommended HealthTrust Financial for more than 20 years because they work for you, not the insurance companies, so they offer unbiased advice. Visit healthtrustfinancial.com to connect with an advisor today. That's healthtrustfinancial.com. Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show, but if you have money questions and you want an answer for your situation, you can head over to our website, use Ask Ramsey, because it's hard to get in here sometimes.

Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that is built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. No junk from the internet in this tool. It's all from stuff we've answered here on the show, stuff we've answered in our books. All the books are dumped into the data set. All the articles, thousands of articles that we've written on the website, are all in the data set. And that's how you're gonna get a very, very Ramsey answer.

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That's exactly how it works. Ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com. Ask Ramsey is a free service, or click the link in the description If you're listening on podcast or YouTube, Mary is with us in Youngstown, Ohio. Hi, Mary, how are you?

Hi guys, I'm doing really well. How are you?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

So I had a quick question. Is it okay to invest more than 15% of your income into retirement?

Are you—

is your home paid off?

Uh, I'm 28 years old actually today. But I still live at home and I have no debt.

Happy birthday.

Thank you.

Um, oh, uh, you don't own a home is what you're saying?

Exactly, yeah.

So yeah, you can invest anything you want to. Uh, at some point you may want to own a home, so any investing you're doing above the 15%, I might go to something just like an S&P 500, a brokerage account, and let it grow for a down payment on a house.

So earmark that as down payment fund.

Instead of retirement.

Okay.

Because someday you're probably going to move out and buy a house, I hope.

Oh yeah, yeah, it's definitely in the plans. I actually just talked to my financial advisor who's Ramsey approved, um, and I am maxing out my 401 at 6%, and I was maxing out my Roth IRA, but with both of those together it came to 23%. So I was wondering if I need to cut back in one of the expenses.

It's not the end of the world. I just want you to save for a down payment.

Yeah.

That's all. And I want you to get out and get on your own.

Yeah, what do you make?

Uh, currently I make $45,000.

Okay, and you're maxing out your 401? You're 28 years old and you live at home?

Yeah.

Yeah, okay. You're not maxing out your 401 at $45,000.

No, you're putting—

I'm just like putting up to the—

you're putting up to the max.

Mm-hmm.

But you're saying between that 6% in the 401 and then maxing out a Roth IRA, it's equivalent to 23% of your income.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah.

Got it. Okay.

So you took the match and then you went and did a Roth. That's good. I like that. Very smart. Yeah. Good, good work. Well done. And yes, I would move out and start my adult life. You're 28. It's time to do it.

Even if you need to get a couple of roommates.

Yeah. It's, it's good. It's good. It's a, it's, it's an important part of the adult process. And, uh, yeah, you can live and, and start to save for your down payment and that kind of stuff. Yes, very good. Uh, Tyler is in Houston. Hi Tyler, how are you?

Good, how are y'all doing?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

Uh, man, I am 21. I work at a dealership, uh, selling cars, and I make probably around $160,000. Um, and I just got married about 2 months ago, and I'm running into the idea that I worked before we met and we got married, I worked about 80 hours a week. Now I probably work about 65, and it just seems that I'm running into— I want to spend a little bit more time with her, uh, and we be able to do things, but that would mean moving jobs and not making as much money. Um, and I think it's hard because I— this is pretty much my real big boy job, first one, and it's doing very well.

So are you working— what, what days and hours are you Working?

It is pretty much, uh, I just started taking Tuesdays off since we got married, but it is Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, um, pretty much 8 to 8.

Okay.

So you have Sunday and Tuesday off?

Yes, sir.

And you're working 12-hour days, 5, 6 days, 5 days a week, and that's 60 hours.

Okay.

All right. And how long have you been married?

Uh, 3 months.

Okay. Um, hi. Uh, you can do what you want to do, and the two of you can decide. There's nothing— there's no— there's no right or wrong or moral answer here. You called us, um, and, um, my wife grew up on a farm, and they milked cows and planted tobacco. And so hard work is like her middle name. So the chances of her telling me I need to work less ever in my life has been zero. So I'm having a little bit of trouble figuring out how to process this because even now, when I turn 60, I start taking Fridays off and she's like, what are you doing? here. Go over there to the office and do something. So I kind of have the opposite problem on my end that you have after 45 years of marriage. And so I don't think 60 hours is the end of the world. I will tell you that I know a lot of very, very successful people that have built wonderful marriages, children, lives, businesses, and none of them did it on 40-hour weeks. I can promise you my average through my working lifetime has been more like 60, and many, many weeks that were 80.

And so, um, you know, because I run my own business, and that's the world's worst boss— that guy will drive you into the dirt, you know. So I'm the— I'm the— the problem is I'm trying to be, uh, authentic with you, Tyler, and say that my answer would be skewed because of who I am, and because of the facts I just gave you. So I think you're fine at 60 hours. If you told me you were working 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, which would put you at 80-something hours, then yeah, you'd probably need to do something different for your new marriage. That's true. But married couples have had Wonderful lives and first years on 60-hour weeks for most of human history. Sometimes it makes marriage better.

Absence can make the heart grow fonder.

But I mean, you're at home at 8 o'clock. I mean, you know, and you're 21. It isn't like your bedtime is 9 o'clock.

And if you guys have intense financial goals, this might be a season. Eventually you might go, I need something a little bit more flexible or less days or whatever it is, less hours to where it's 40, 45 hours.

But it's up to y'all.

Nothing's on fire.

There's a trade-off. But I just—

It doesn't sound like he's burnt out either.

No, he just wants to spend time with his new wife, and that's a nice thing. That's sweet. And she wants that. That's nice. And so I wish more of the couples that called here wanted that. You know, it was like, you Most of them call here and go, how do I get my husband to work more? So it's the other way around. But yeah, I think you're a great guy, and I think she's a great gal, and I think y'all will work it out. There's not a wrong answer. If you choose to do something different, you didn't do something wrong. If you choose to stay there and say, when I come home at 8 o'clock, we are not going to turn on Netflix. We're going to spend time together. Watching the same television show together is not spending time together. Turn off the television and put your phone up and no doom scrolling. Neither one of you have a phone in your hand or a computer, and neither one of you have Netflix. And that's a Sunday rule, a Tuesday rule, and an 8 PM on rule. And then you're gonna find plenty of time.

It sounds like you just don't like Dancing with the Stars, Dave. That's it. I think you're just anti-streaming show.

Dancing with the Stars is your best representation of binge-watching?

That's it.

Why can't you come up with something cool?

That's all I'm aware of.

Binge-watch Reacher or something like that.

Oh, there we go. More manly.

Binge-watch something that matters, not Dancing with the Stars. Joel!

I was trying to relate to you. I thought for sure Sharon forces you to sit down and watch Dancing with the Stars.

You know Sharon better than that. Yeah, I don't know what she's into these Sharon would take my man card away if I watched Dancing with the Stars.

I'm just saying, I thought you might be on it one day. There's still time, guys. Vote for Dave Ramsey on Dancing with the Stars, and we might have a real hit on our hands.

Here we go.

Just keep it right here, Dave.

You ready?

You ready? Keep, keep it tight. Keep it tight.

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Richard's in San Antonio. Hey Richard, what's up?

Hi, how are you?

Great, man. How can we help?

Uh, basically I always— I'm paycheck to paycheck and I'm drowning, so I just, I don't know how to get out of it. Um, so I guess that's the question. What do I do? Okay.

So why are you paycheck to paycheck and why are you drowning?

So, um, my wife and I, we've been together about 10 years. We have combined student loan debt of about $900K to $1 million. Um, our income was until recently around $200K a year, uh, but I was recently laid off. So now it's cut in half.

What are your degrees in?

We're both practicing attorneys. So I just started taking cases on my own, um, just to bring something in. But we always get to the same point whenever we discuss bills. Um, she wants to pay all the bills whenever we have like a bill meeting, and I want to save something because I know once we pay all the bills for for that time period or billing period, we end up with nothing left. So, I just walk around like feeling like a fraud most of the time. And, you know, I'm scared to be invited to any type of dinner or event because I'm just looking at the dollar sign calculating, do I have enough for this? Do I have enough for that?

Um-hum.

And that's been our life for, uh, you know, 3 years.

Why are 2 attorneys only making $100,000 a year each?

So we, we were both, um, nonprofit attorneys.

Why, if you have $900,000 in student loan debt, did you take that stupid job?

The, the plan was that, um, if you do that for a certain amount of time, You can get the student loans forgiven if you work in that nonprofit sector.

Yeah, not true, because it's not happened for very many people. 5% of the people get through that gauntlet, 95% don't. So you've been underpaid by $150,000 to $200,000 a year for years to try to get through a few hundred thousand in student loan debt.

Yeah.

So where are you guys at in that process?

He's now opened his own firm, right?

Yeah, I basically just started—

But you're not working for nonprofit rates anymore, but she still is.

Correct, correct. What I make, what I charge is completely ours or mine.

What was the original balance of these student loans?

It was around $300,000 each, but then I think it ballooned to around the $450,000 Plus, how long ago did you pass the bar? Um, it's been about 11 years.

Oh my.

So you— they were not forgiven?

I, uh, I, I initially worked in private, so I only did about 6, 6 to 7 in the nonprofit.

So what about your wife? She's, uh, she's about at So she worked at a private as well for a while?

A little bit, yeah.

Okay.

All right. Well, our experience is that very few people get those loans forgiven under that program. It's a— the program is full of holes and problems and loopholes. So we work— we've met a whole lot of disillusioned people after working 10 years for substandard wages in service to the community and then don't get their loans forgiven. So I don't have a lot of hope in that. And of course, you've started the clock over now, so yours is not relevant. So what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? I would make student loan reduction my primary goal. Therefore, my income, highest possible income, even if it's in a less than ideal situation, I want to make the most possible money for a short period of time and really jack your incomes way up and live on nothing— beans and rice, rice and beans— and attack these student loans with a vengeance. And no, you don't need to be going to a dinner party. If somebody invites you, you say, I have $1 million in student loan debt, I can't go. And that's what we're working on. And so it's job one. You got one One job.

It's that. And you guys get your incomes up as high as you can and your expenses down as low as you can. Now, as far as being able to eat and so forth, you've pulled that off for a decade, so you haven't thrown all the money at the student loans and then got to the end of the month and had no food. That's not what you're saying. But no, you don't need to be saving money. You need to be getting these debts cleaned up. But you guys have not been aggressive on this because you've not been aggressive on your income.

Correct.

You weren't making it— you're not making a ton of money. I mean, a couple hundred thousand's good money, but it's not good money if you owe a million.

Yeah, I mean, it doesn't feel that way.

No, it doesn't. It doesn't do it. Doesn't move the needle much. It moves it, but not enough to where you don't feel stuck. You felt like a rat in a wheel for a long time.

And the math's against you unless you're paying more than the interest and principal. That thing's just gonna move up and up and up. Yeah, you've got to get ahead of it by just throwing tens of thousands at this thing every month. Yeah, that's what it's gonna take.

Yeah, I need you making a couple hundred each minimum, and as soon as possible, and preferably $250 each or $300 each, 80 hours a week. And you just work until you're blind. But you can clear this up in 3 or 4 years if you do that. But if not, you're gonna be sitting here 10 years from now still looking at this thing. You're gonna have to do something pretty dramatic with the math. But if you take $900,000 and you start throwing $200,000, $300,000 at it a year, $300,000 in a year, it's done in 3 years. But that means you're making between the two of you $400,000 and living on $100,000, not counting taxes, which means you're living on nothing.

Yeah.

And that, that's where, that's where I'm trying to get you to. Throw $300,000 a year at it and be done in 3 years. That's $25,000 a month. not $25,000 a year, which is what you've been doing, because you've not even moved the needle. So I've got great hope, but it's all— you know, we call it the shovel and hole thing, Richard. The hole that you're in is $900,000. Your shovel is your income. You got a huge hole and a small shovel. I'm telling you, get a new shovel, and the hole gets filled up a lot faster then. And it's $300,000 a year above my living expenses and taxes to throw it, $900,000, and then I'm done in approximately 3 years. And but otherwise, if you just say it out loud, it takes your breath away. I have $1 million. It's— I can't breathe. I can't think. Everything revolves around this. But if you have a clear-cut plan, you're making $200,000 each, $250,000 each, or $250,000 and $150,000, and you start— and we're knocking this thing out in 3 years, you got great hope. Your energy level is going to come up. The scales are gonna fall away from your eyes, your depression's gonna slip away, your effectiveness as an attorney is gonna be better, and everything else.

But right now, it's hard to see anything because you got this huge concrete wall in front of your nose, and it just blocks your vision for your life. And it's sad, man. I'm so sorry. I'm not fussing at you, I'm fussing with you. But you gave up the opportunity to make no money When you took on all these loans. You have to go make as much money as possible now, as soon as possible. And the more money you make, obviously, the faster you're going to get out. And you know what I'm talking about. And it's going to be a lot of hours. It's going to be a lot of sacrifice. And you're going to put up with some stuff you don't want to put up with. You're going to be working at a firm that you don't necessarily love everything about it.

Whoop-de-doop-dee.

I don't like anything about my life right now. I need to change something. And you need to change a bunch of stuff right now.

Yeah, the conversation needs to change from, are we gonna pay the bills first or save first? It is, we need to get our income way up and keep our expenses down to nothing so that we have that margin. And you can do this math on paper and go, okay, how much are we willing to, to work? We're both gonna work 80 hours a week for the next 3, 4 years and knock this thing out because we've been doing this for a decade and the number went up. So what we've been doing isn't working. We gotta try a different plan. And the debt snowball, like you mentioned, staring down $900 grand will take your breath away. But if you focus on the smallest debt and just go, that's the enemy right there, that's the villain, you have hope to fight the next one and the next one. That's what it's gonna take.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Randy is in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Hi Randy, how are you?

I'm good, how are you doing? I enjoy your show.

Thank you.

And I enjoy your app, it is amazing.

Well, thank you, thank you. Glad every dollar was a blessing to you. How can we help today?

Going through a major remodel at the house and trying to keep my frugality from causing strife with my wife. It's— I've never really spent any money on myself for 61 years, and now we're spending a lot of money. I'm just trying to maintain.

How far, how far into the project are you?

3 What's the cost of it total?

Our budget with contractor, new appliances, new furniture, furnishings, so forth, is $550,000.

Wow. So we have line item budget and we've agreed to the amounts. Where would your frugality kick in? As long as she stays under the amount agreed to, are we okay?

Yeah, and I've allowed a 10% change order fee with the contractor. I mean, that's typical in today's world. I was a contractor myself at one time.

That's true, but we really shouldn't need any change orders except on this discussion you and I are having. She's got a piece of furniture she wants to buy, and your frugality is causing an argument. But why would that be so if the piece of furniture is within the budget that you have both agreed to before you started the project?

Well, that's just it. I'm hoping we can stay within the budget.

And no, not hopefully, but this is how we start a project. We both sit down and agree to the numbers.

Yes.

Are you worried that it's going to go way out of scope, or are you just seeing this money leave your bank now, you're going, oh gosh, I regret agreeing to this?

A little bit of everything. You know, I— it's just— Okay, so give me an example of where you think there might be an Um, going into the flooring, I said give me the price per square foot to make sure we stay within budget, and I want to make sure we're not getting the highest-end flooring there is.

No, wait a minute.

Middle of the road should be good.

I don't care if it's highest-end or not as long as it's in the budget. You've agreed to the budget.

Is this a detailed budget?

You're not allowed to whine as long as it's within budget.

Yes, sir.

Is there an actual spreadsheet that says flooring with a line item with the amount we're going to allocate Yes.

That's how a project like that— the budget should be developed that way. Yeah. So if you've agreed to it, you should have all that angst behind you. If she's agreed to it, then she's agreed to stay within that. So we were building a house a while back, and the flooring came in, just to use your example. The decorator and my wife picked flooring when they had their wonderful day at the flooring place, and it was $42,000 over the budget. And I'm like, what were y'all smoking? We had a budget, and everyone agreed to the budget ahead of time, including the decorator, until they went to the dadgum flooring store. And they're like, well, you know, we picked out this thing for the basement for the downstairs. And I'm like, 4 people will be down there per year. No.

Doesn't need to be the Taj Mahal down there.

No, we're gonna put the cheapest crap in the basement so you can put the nice stuff upstairs where we are every day. You spend your money where you're gonna be. And so that's me reining the decorator in, which meant I had to rein my wife in. But that's not even frugality, that's just sticking to the agreement.

Yes, sir.

And that's the way the whole thing goes down. I'm in the middle of one of these renovations right now with a house, and I'm going through the exact same thing. But this is the 5th time we've done it, built a custom house or done a large renovation. And so Sharon and I have got this dialed in now. We don't yell at each other anymore. The first one, we almost killed each other. So we had to learn to preset it and agree to it. Now think about this before you agree to it, because I'm gonna— you're gonna sign this in blood. You're sticking to this. And when you and the little decorator have your moment, then you're gonna have another moment with me because we're not doing it. You know, and then if you do all that, you can come back and go, oh wait, we got savings over here. If you want to upgrade that one door thingy, let's do it. And you can loosen up And be sure you spend all the money somewhere that you've agreed to spend, and that makes it feel like you're being very generous.

True. Yeah, so I guess there's just a lot of anxiety on my part being this is just the very beginning, the first week of it.

Yeah, and you've never done this. So I think that if the budget is correct, if it's realistic— I mean, if you put $4 in for lighting and it's gonna be $4,000, that's a problem.

Yes, sir.

But if the budget is realistic and you're comfortable that it's a good number where your wife and you can have a nice property when this is completed, because by God you've earned it, both of you, then you get comfortable with that. That'll lower your anxiety. Then the second thing you got to get comfortable with is her commitment to this agreement. And here's how I would phrase it if I were I've been in this exact seat. That's why. Except it's not frugality with me, it's sticking to the freaking plan with me. I'm not really that frugal. Sharon is more naturally frugal. But I'm just with, once there's a plan, you gotta stick to it. I lose my mind. So, but here's how I learned to do it. Honey, I can stand back and watch you enjoy these purchases if I'm comfortable that you're going to do the purchases within the numbers that we've talked about. Promise me you're gonna stay no matter who says what, no matter which of your friends show up or the decorator shows up or anybody that's gonna negatively influence your brain, that no matter what happens you're gonna continue to use your brain and you're gonna stick with the numbers that we agreed to.

If you can promise me that and you do it, I'm gonna— and I'm gonna celebrate— Cheap Randy is gonna celebrate these large purchases with you, my Sounds perfect. And it gives you that, but if you're comfortable she's gonna stick to it and that the number is realistic, because if she comes back and the number's not realistic, then she's got a case, and that's a change order, right?

Right.

And so, and that's gonna happen in a $550,000 project. You're right, 10%, you know, you're gonna be off $50 grand.

You probably underpriced some things and maybe overpriced some other things.

Absolutely. Absolutely. There's going to be something that blows up in the thing. It's not going to come in. But the last house we built, we did it within 3% of budget and it was 2 months early because we managed to the blueprint, we managed to the schedule, and we managed to the budget. And everybody on the team knew that Dave is going to be wonderful to work with and the money's going to keep flowing and I'm going to be smiling and happy as long as we manage to the schedule. the schedule, the blueprint, and the freaking budget. And if you get off of any of those things, you're not gonna like me because my whole job is to keep all of you people on those 3 things. You're gonna build it to blueprint, to specs. You're gonna build it to budget and within the allowances that we set in the budget. And guess what? I didn't even have 1 episode in that last house. I made a whole 14 months, I didn't have a single episode. We had lots of decisions to make, things to change, We made a, we, you know, we made a concession here, raised something there, lowered something there, but we're within 3% of budget when we get done.

It's a Swiss train at this point. It's on time.

We're gonna do it on budget. I mean, and that, that's how you build a house, and that's how you do a project like this. But Randy, I can completely relate. It's, it's one of the biggest— that's why I tell young couples just getting married, don't build a house. You, you really got to be married a while before you can survive building a house together.

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If you're sick and tired of working hard but having nothing to show for it, you need to try a new plan. We can show you how to get out of debt, build wealth using the Baby Steps, and the best way to do that is the EveryDollar budgeting app, which is going to help you find extra money, build you a personalized plan, and guide you, hold your hand to do the Ramsey In just 15 minutes, you're going to find thousands in hidden margin and you'll feel like you got a raise. Don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Start EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Stephanie is in Salt Lake City, Utah. Hi, Stephanie, how are you?

Hi, Dave. Better than I deserve. How are you?

Just the same. How can I help?

Wonderful. First of all, I'm a huge fan of your show and of your books, and it's a pleasure to be here on the show. So thanks for having me.

We're honored.

I do have a 2-part question for you. I'm just gonna hit you with it and then I'd love for you to take it away and tell me what you think. My husband and I, I like to think we're in a good spot financially. We only have a mortgage and our savings account is growing weekly. We both put 15% into our Roth 401s. And we were approached recently and told about IUL accounts and it was feeling like a cool, unique opportunity at first. But then the more we've thought about it and kind of taken a step back, it kind of just feels like a scam. So we wanted to know what you recommend. And then the second part to that is that we are about to be a one-income household as we have our first baby on the way. And I'll be staying home to raise our kids. So we also just wanted to know how to adjust our retirement goals or how we're saving for retirement when it's just a single-income household.

OK. Well, we can start with that last one. The easiest answer is you invest 15% of whatever your household income is. is until the mortgage is paid off. So if it gets cut in half, you're investing 15% of that. Now the question is, can you live off that one income?

Yes.

Okay, great.

Good, good for you.

Wonderful.

Thank you.

So let's talk about indexed universal life insurance. I'm guessing this is somebody that you know, or someone, a friend of a friend that pushed this on you?

Yeah, it was our estate attorney. He actually He helped us set up our estate and everything was great. And then he was like, hey, by the way, I want to tell you about IUL accounts, and kind of tried to—

You got an insurance agent as an estate attorney, which is scary.

Okay.

So they're selling you this insurance as a quote— I'm putting this in huge air quotes— a wealth-building tool. And it's just a permanent life insurance policy with cash value, and it's indexed to the S&P 500 generally. So you don't actually own any stock, but the gains are tied to the stock market. And here's what they tell you. Let me guess what they The pitch was, you'll get market gains with no downside risk. You get tax-free income, right?

Yeah.

These are the things they pitch you. Here's what they're not telling you. The agent gets paid almost your entire first year's premium in commission. Now do you know why they're so pushy about this?

Yeah.

So they get huge commissions. A third of your money vanishes before you even get to see any of it. Their returns are terrible, like 3%. after all these fees. And they cap— they say, hey, there's no downside, we'll cap it at 0%, so you can't lose money, quote unquote. What they don't really tell you is that they also cap the gains. The stock market did 25% in 2024 and 2025. Guess what? You didn't make 25% on that money because they capped it at 10%. So you are way better off investing on your own versus giving this person $500 a month for the rest of your life to get 3% returns. Just put it in a high-yield savings account at that point and run away from this person. I wouldn't use him as an attorney anymore.

I'm serious. The attorney's not actually selling them policy. They referred you to someone, right?

Well, they just recently started working with these, so it's, it's through Transamerica is the company.

So you got an insurance agent that has an attorney on staff? Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, you need a different— you need— it's sad. So yeah, it's— the product is absolutely horrendous. It's a horrible product. It's not technically a scam, but it's basically the payday lender of the middle class. It's not technically a scam, but it's just so bad that it feels like a scam. And that's why they're so stinking pushy, because they make so much on it. And if your estate planning attorney is willing to give you bad advice like this on this, what else are they giving you bad advice on? That's what scares me.

They're probably pushing trusts on you that you don't need at that point.

Yeah, you're going to— $5,000 to develop this trust that you don't need. Um, and so I think I'm looking for a new estate planning attorney, and I'm going to run away from this insurance agent at high speed.

Okay, you guys have term life?

Oh, sorry. Um, no. Well, I do through my company, but whereas I'm about to, to, you know, quit there, I, I need to— we both need it.

Yeah, you need your own policies not tied to your employers, 10 to 12 times your annual income. And if you stay home, you still need at least a half-million-dollar policy on you.

Yeah, so go to Zander Insurance and get your term life in place. Um, and if you're going to do investing, you do that with a real investment advisor, I'm not an insurance agent. And insurance agents are not investment advisors. They pose as it quite often when they're selling this crap. But that's what this is. It's crap.

So what you do is you get that term life insurance. It's going to be a fraction of the cost, like a tenth of the cost of this whole life deal. And then with all the extra margin you now have, because you didn't invest in this terrible insurance product, you can use that to build wealth. And that's part of your 15%. So any extra money, let's start chunking it towards the mortgage or to the kids' college funds.

And you guys can build wealth without any of these terrible So you know from the baby steps, right, that baby step 4, you put 15% of your income into retirement. 5 is kids' college, and 6 is with any other money we reduce the mortgage, right?

Correct.

Okay, it's not— there's no baby step that says with any other money we do other investments, IUL included. Okay, so there's not, there's not a place for this anyway. I'm not giving you a replacement investment. option. Instead, whatever money you would have put toward this, I would put towards your mortgage. And get a good SmartVestor Pro for your investment advice that actually is an actual financial advisor. They're not an insurance agent. And, you know, get with Zander, get your term insurance in place, and then live on that one income, and you're gonna be great. So, hey, and by the way, congratulations. You have a good number You smelled a snake and you went, snake! Snake alert! I think there's a snake here. I'm gonna call somebody and see if this is a snake. Oh, it's a snake! We didn't get bit because we recognize snakes. Yeah, that's good for you.

You usually get the call when someone says, hey, I got bit by a snake.

I want to trust you. You know, if I'm you, you should feel confident in your own sense of smelling for snakes because you smelled that one out beautifully. Well done.

And usually if someone approaches you, I would run. That's just a general take. You should be in control of the financial decisions you're making.

Purse snatchers approach you.

Exactly. He approached me in a dark alleyway and told me about this great investment opportunity.

You get mugged when you get approached.

I don't trust anyone approaching me. Respect my personal space and boundaries, please.

Hey, I've got an opportunity for you. Translation, my friend just joined a multi-level.

Yes. And I always know it's someone they know. It's not a random It's always, a family friend told me about this and I trusted them, or, my estate attorney said I can trust this person.

I never heard the estate planning angle.

That's different. That's interesting. I wonder if they're getting a kickback off of this.

Usually there's a filet mignon at the local steakhouse involved.

Yeah. And that's for the annuities. That's when you get a nice dinner.

Well, you can get IULs with that too. And even you can get infinite banking with that, the whole life. You can get all that.

I'm tempted to sign up similar to signing up for a timeshare presentation.

I saw O'Charley's closed up today. Oh, and so I don't know where they're gonna hold these filet dinners now.

They're gonna have to switch over.

Get a cheap filet and, you know, get sold on some not-so-cheap—

Where are we going now?

Bad insurance investment products. Wow.

Over to Shoney's? I'm guessing they closed down too.

Whoa, whoa, you just went way off the cliff then.

That was personal for Dave.

Down, boy.

Big Shoney's fan. Man, that's another good indicator. If you get a piece of mail offering you a free dinner for anything, don't take it. Cook your own steak at home. You'll be better off than sitting through 3 hours of that.

Get a Wagyu and you'll save money, serious money, by just cook your own Wagyu at home. It's way cheaper than getting ripped off with these people. That's so funny. Stephanie, trust your instincts. You have good instincts.

Listen guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. You get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling your money where to go so you can stop wondering where it went. So if you're gonna start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. And the easiest way to get started and stick to it is with with the EveryDollar budget app. It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And guess what? It's free. So no excuses. Download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play today. Liz is in Orlando. Hi Liz, how are you?

Good, how about you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so I have a situation where, um, my husband let me know last night that in 3 weeks, um, instead of living in the RV. Um, I will— we're going to be moving into the house that's right next to the RV. Um, it's double our, uh, what we pay right now, and the only way we're going to be able to afford it is if we move in with his brothers that have proven to be financially irresponsible in the past, and we actually have paid the price it before. And I have no finances. I'm a stay-at-home mom to an 11-month-old, and I just, I feel stuck.

You're living in an RV?

Yeah.

Why?

Um, so when, when I had came back from trucking, because I was trucking before this, We didn't have an apartment, but we did have enough money to buy an RV. And my mother-in-law offered to put the RV right next to their house and it would save us money in the long run, which is what I thought. But then I listened to some of your shows and I kind of understand your, your belief on the RVs. But by the time I made the decision, it was— or heard the information, I— it was too late.

How long have you been married?

Um, I've been married 2 years, and before that we were dating for 2 years.

How old are you?

I am 24 years old.

Where's your family?

Um, my family, um, I don't exactly have, um, my family too close to me right now. Uh, they can't really help me.

I asked where they are.

Um, uh, they're They're in Kissimmee.

Pretty close by.

So you mean relationally they're not able to— they're not willing to help? You're estranged from them?

Yeah.

Because they're not pleased with who you chose as a husband?

Um, no, they don't know. I don't really tell them anything about my marriage. Um, well, I never did. Um, But, uh, I just, I don't know.

So you lived with his brothers before?

No.

Um, so, uh, we, we have a past when I was trucking, uh, one of his brothers, um, that's going to move in with us. Um, he had ran away from home and he ended up moving into our apartment. And so we gave him a list of things that he has to pay and rules he has to follow. And I ended up having to pay a whole bunch of tolls and stuff because he was using my car, which I allowed him to do, which was dumb on my end, but I allowed him to use it and he never paid any of the tolls.

How old is your Uh, he is 25. And what does he make a year?

Um, he makes $23 an hour. Okay.

Is he working 40 hours? Is he working 40 hours?

Uh, yes, he works 40 hours. He actually works overtime most of the time.

Are you working at all with an 11-month-old?

No. No.

That's fine.

Okay.

Well, I don't know how to cause this family that is so messed up to suddenly not be messed up for your sake. I wish I could, because I'm kind of scared for you right now.

Okay.

But your husband gets to decide with the next conversation with you whether he wants you around or not. And he may decide negatively, I don't know. But I think you've already decided you're not moving into that house. And so the only question is, is when you guys sell the RV and go get an apartment, is he gonna go?

I truly don't know.

Yeah, I don't either. But I think that's the question he needs to be asked tonight. Do you want to go with me? Because I'm I'm leaving. I'm not gonna stay here in the shadow of your mother and your dysfunctional brothers, and I'm certainly not moving into their house. And we're selling this RV, and we're going to go build a life, a quality life together. And that's the only chance we have, honey. Otherwise, we're gonna end up just like them. Look at them. Do you want to be them in 20 years? I don't want to be them in 20 years. I can love them, but I don't want to be them.

Yeah.

And this is when people change their lives. They change their family tree. They look at the history, and the history is in the rearview mirror, and they develop a future out the windshield. And the rearview mirror is smaller for a reason, because the future is bright, but only if you're driving away from the mess. And so, which is a pretty good metaphor for a truck driver, but right about the So yeah, you know, I'm hoping that your husband's love for his new child and his wife supersedes his love for his dysfunctional mother and brothers. He's trying to figure out a place to put a roof over your head. He doesn't know how to do it right, and he's getting ready to do it wrong. And you know that, and that's why you called. So, you know, you guys are at a turning point, and something dramatic is going to happen. And you guys just— you need to decide what it is. You need to decide what it is. It doesn't need to happen to you. You need to happen to it. And if you need some help, just call a local church. There's wonderful churches all over Orlando, Florida.

And tell them you're 24 years old with an 11-month-old, and your husband just kicked you out of the RV, and you need some help. And they'll help you. They'll help you get started. And you're gonna have to get a job and build a life if he doesn't go with you. But your other choice is move in with the crazies over there, and I don't blame you. I think you're probably onto something there.

Yeah.

There's no good— there's no good short-term story here. The best possible short-term story is he says, oh yes, I want to be with my wife and child, and we're going to load up the clothing out of the RV and we're going to go get us an apartment. But I don't feel like that's a high probability Yeah, he says that—

I already talked to him about that, and he says that the apartments that currently are $1,500, and it would be cheaper either way to live with, uh, with his brothers.

Another option is pick the RV up and move away, 20 miles away, and get a place to park the RV temporarily until you can get it sold and get you an apartment. But you cannot continue down this path because you know what's gonna happen. You can see it, and we can see it, and we don't even know everybody involved here. It's just sadness. All I hear is sadness.

It's all toxic dysfunction, and you know you're about to get dragged into it even further. So you need to realize you have agency in this marriage. So far, you haven't had a vote because you haven't given yourself the ability to actually speak up and do something about it. And so for the sake of that baby, create a safe environment that actually you can thrive in. And that might mean some deep sacrifices for now where life looks hard, but I'd rather that than you move along with this move into this house.

Yeah, you fast forward the move that you're outlining, it doesn't sound good. And that's why you're calling, because you know that. You know, we're not telling you anything you didn't know. You already knew all that, honey. But hey, reach out in the community, get in touch with a pastor or 2 in the local area, and some of them Someone will help you. I promise you they will. We know a lot of good churches in Orlando, a lot of good people down there that'll help you.

Even a good local women's shelter can give you some resources.

Matter of fact, I'll put you on hold. Christian will pick up, and we'll hook you up with some of the pastors we know down there, and we'll get some people in your corner. And that's with him, with your husband, or without him. If he wants to help too, we'll help you guys. We'll see if we can get some people around you that love you well.

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted Providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance. Our Scripture of the Day, Ecclesiastes 4:9-10, 2 are better than one, because they have a good return for their work. If either of them falls down, one can help the other up. But pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them. Jeff Parnas says about 9/11, when Americans lend a hand to one another, nothing is impossible. We're not about what happened on 9/11. We're about what happened on 9/12. Like that.

Yeah.

And we're also about what happened on 9/11. I'm not going to forget it either. I'm not confused about what happened there. And I'm not going to forget that. But also, we want to talk about how we can help and how we can gather around. And the thing that we all wished at the time, and we all knew, all of us that were old especially, knew at the time was that the unity, all the political divisiveness, all the stuff dropped. For a short period of time, everybody was an American. And we knew it wouldn't last. We knew the trash and the filth and nastiness and the crazies on each side would raise up eventually, and they have, and now they're back in full control again. But that moment in time when there was this beautiful unity was something else. I was on the air that day. I remember it. It was crazy. Absolutely crazy. So, um, yeah, 9/11 brings up a lot. Yeah. And so a lot of you weren't even born at that point. And, uh, wow, that's kind of— think that's kind of wild to think about. 26 years old, right?

Yeah, I mean, it's been 25 years since the— yeah, the date. So I was a mid-middle Middle school. Yeah, not listening to this show, unfortunately. I should have been.

Yeah, come on, George. What kind of nerd are you if you're not listening to the show in middle school? I mean, that's a certified right there, baby. All right, Laura's in Phoenix. Hi, Laura, what's up?

Hi, I hope you're well, and I thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure.

So I am currently $70,000 in debt I just started a new career and I just found out I'm pregnant with my second child. I just want to know how I can prioritize paying off debt without putting myself in a worse situation.

A lot of I and me. Are you married?

Yes, but it's complicated. He is not a citizen, so he's currently in his country. Um, with our firstborn, I had just taken him out there, um, since I'm starting my new career, um, until he's able to move out here and join me.

When will that be?

Um, we're still in the process and the paperwork. It's looking like the projected time, it ranges anywhere from March of next year, um, until as late as August of next year.

So how does income work? Is it just your income at this point?

Yes, it's just my income at this point.

He doesn't work in his home country?

He does, but how the money— what do you call it— converts is just not enough.

What country is he in?

Um, he's in Egypt right now.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, so you're waiting on a visa and a green card so that he's legal to earn an income in the United States while he awaits citizenship.

So for the purposes of this call, we'll just assume it's you, $70,000 in debt, and just your income trying to pay this off while pregnant.

And a baby on the way. Yeah.

So what do you make in this new career?

Um, so I just graduated, um, in accounting, so I just started a new accounting career making $82,000 a year.

Awesome.

So that's double what I was making before.

That's great. And what kind of debt's the $70,000?

Oh, okay. So, um, it is $43,000, um, in student loans, um, and about $6,280 for credit cards. Um, I took out a title loan, which was so dumb. Um, and that is $3,000. And then I have a buy now, pay later, um, loan for $1,800. And then there's credit cards in collections that are like a little bit over $15,000.

$15,000 in collections.

Okay.

So you're not paying anything on that right now? They're in collections?

No.

And you're not paying anything on the student loan right now because it's been in hardship?

No, they're in deferment.

Yeah. And so all we're dealing with is $6,000 in credit cards, a $2,000 Buy now, pay later. Buy now, pay later. And that's on the car or on furniture?

Sorry, the $3,000 title loan for the car.

Yeah, okay. So, and are you renting or what?

Yes, I'm renting, and my rent is $1,389 per month.

Okay, good. Okay, well, I want to make as much progress as I can in the next few weeks. before we get too far down into the pregnancy process, okay? And so you've got to get that title loan out. So your first goal is beans and rice, rice and beans. Do a written budget, and I want your entire check to go towards just food, rent, and title loan. And I think you can clear that. I think you can clear that. I think you can clear that Title I loan in I think so too.

I haven't gotten the first check yet because I just started about 2 and a half weeks ago, but yeah, I think that can—

Yeah, I mean, you should be taking home $5,000 a month.

Okay, yeah.

And $3,000 for the title loan and live on the rest and do nothing else.

No investing?

No, you don't. No 401s, no investing, no nothing. Do you have any money in savings?

No, I don't.

Okay, so we're gonna get rid of the Title One. That's thing one.

Do you have a working car that's paid off?

Yeah, yeah, my car is totally paid off.

Wonderful. We'll get the title back and never do that again. Okay?

Okay, yeah.

And then clear the $1,800, buy now, pay now, later the next month.

And shut down the account and cut up the credit cards, because right now we are trying to stop the bleeding and stop us from making any more dumb decisions.

Okay.

And so what I want you to do then is to start— after you pay up the buy now, pay now, and you've paid minimums on the credit cards and nothing on the ones in collection, nothing on the student loans, and pay your rent and your food, and I want you to stack cash. You need a war chest for when the baby comes. I want you to have $15,000, $20,000 by the time the baby comes.

Okay.

And I don't know if you give advice on this, but I'm still in the process of selecting the medical insurance, and there was a high deductible option and the low deductible, and I just didn't know which one to choose because of the amount that would be taken out of my check.

I would investigate how they handle maternity in both cases. Ask HR to explain the maternity benefits in the 2 policies, and you need the most thorough maternity benefits, even if it's the low deductible. You may switch in a couple of years back to the high deductible, but probably you're going to be on the low deductible and get full coverage on this maternity.

Okay.

So it's not just about lowest premium, it's what's the lowest total out-of-pocket cost to cover me through the pregnancy.

Yeah, we're trying to have a baby without hardly any out-of-pocket.

Okay.

Now, who's going to be around you and help you and take care of you when the baby comes?

Um, I haven't figured that out yet.

No, that's something to start working on.

I'm so new to the area.

Oh, you gotta start working on that.

Get plugged into a local church.

Where's your family?

Um, they— I have family that's in on the East Coast.

Yeah, well, do they know you have a baby on the way?

No, I don't want to tell. I haven't told anyone yet.

Why?

I have a pretty dysfunctional family.

Do they know you're married?

No.

Oh, okay. A lot going on here.

Okay.

So you got to create a village from scratch.

Yeah, you need to get in touch with a good church, and you need to get church people around you to love you and walk with you through this and give you support. And then you've got the You have to decide, is the baby going to go in daycare after it comes and you're going to go back to work and continue your wealth building while your husband works on his visa and green card? Probably. It's probably what you're doing. And you probably don't have a lot of options because we can't really lose this great job. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince Amen. The Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.