Transcript of Make A Plan Your Future Can Trust

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Delony. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. That's the only way to jump into the conversation. John is in Chicago up first. What's going on, John?

Hey, good afternoon, gentlemen. Thanks for getting me on the line here.

Sure bet, man.

What's up?

Okay, so my wife and I, we are in Baby Step 3 and looking to the future, wanting to put our money in the best place for growth but also security. And, you know, if you talk to anybody, the, uh, with the state of the world right now, uh, confidence in the dollar, we're just wanting to You know, to make sure that it's in a place that's not just going to evaporate, basically. So wondering, is it worth investing in the, in the stock market instead of tangible assets? Let's say gold, silver, land, that sort of thing.

Great question, man. Thanks for asking that. I know that, I know that's in every internet newsfeed and lots of—

Yeah.

When you say everyone and like everyone believes this, are you seeing headlines, the social media scrolling, or is this people in your actual physical circles?

It's more headlines, newsfeed. I think it's probably just coming through pretty heavily on what I'm seeing on social media and who I talk to in my workplace, that sort of thing.

So I can speak— George is, man, he is the investment guru. I'm not, but I can speak to the— last I checked, the dollar is actually up in the short term. Strangely, it has been pulled from the reserve bank on a percentage basis more than it has been in the past, which says that the rest of the world is saying, we don't know if we can trust you guys. Y'all owe a lot of money, like those kind of things. But even foreign currencies get converted to dollars at some point. So all that to say is, You're talking about such a structural— it's kind of like, how do we prepare if suddenly we all start breathing hydrogen instead of oxygen? Right? Like, it's— it would be such a shift that I— Right.

I—

this is me personally. I don't have one penny in gold because if we switch from hydrogen to oxygen, I don't know what I would do with a bag of yellow rocks. You get what I'm saying?

Right.

I don't know that that would be the thing that saves me at that point, because you're talking about such a sea change.

It would have to be cataclysmic and—

It would be. It simply would be. Right.

Yeah.

If every country in the world stopped taking the dollar, you're talking such a cataclysmic shift that it's like getting hit by a meteorite. As one of my buddies who works in banking once said, he's like, dude, that's a meteorite situation. And so, but I do, man, I'm with you in when I feel all this instability, all the uncertainty. Like I've long joked like that when I put money into my stock, into mutual funds, when I put it into retirement accounts, I don't know if it's gonna be there. You know what I mean? And that's just—

Sure.

That's called risk, right? And when I've got kids, I've got my own fit, like, man, it, I, I often am checking in with George, checking in with Dave, like, this is right, right? So I, that you're feeling, dude, I'm there with you. I get it totally.

Yeah.

And, and I think that's the risk part of investing. And whenever I'm looking at what could happen, honestly, the only, the only thing, and it feels trite, George, the only thing I've got is to look back on history and say, here's how this has worked. And that's, that's not always, if in fact it's almost never a failproof save, like, a fail-safe way of looking at the future, but it's all I got. It's the tool I got, right?

So there's 2 discussions here. One, the dollar's gonna go to zero, the stock market will collapse. That's just not gonna happen. So now we can talk about inflation. That's really what you're talking about. Hey, inflation—

Trying to beat inflation.

Yeah, inflation is 3%. You're right, we should not keep our money under a mattress. Let's put it somewhere that's gonna grow. But now you're saying, I don't trust the stock market, and that's a separate, deeper discussion.

Oh.

I still think investing in the stock market is worth it. In fact, that's the only place I invest. I own my primary home free and clear, and I have my money in retirement and outside of retirement in index funds and mutual funds. My life is that simple. I have great confidence in the S&P 500, which is the benchmark for the US stock market, top 500 companies. It's up 12.5% year to date, even with everything happening in the world. I'm putting this in big air quotes, Even with wars going on, inflation rampant, the US economy just keeps on going.

And will, will there be downturns? 1,000% yes. That's, that's, that's the ride on a roller coaster.

Could there be a 25% dip in there?

Right, sure.

But you're not taking all your money out in a single year based on a dip, right? So just ride the wave, man, because my money has grown exponentially in the stock market over the last what, 12 years I've been investing. And so if you're not investing, you're extra screwed. The only way to beat inflation is to invest, but I would not do it in alternative assets and commodities like gold and crypto. I just personally don't do that. It's too volatile. If you're trying to reduce anxiety, that's not the play.

Yeah, no, crypto has always been kind of a little suspect for me. It hasn't made a whole lot of sense. That's one thing, but, uh, well, hindsight's 20/20.

If you invested in crypto, in Bitcoin 15 years ago, you wouldn't be calling the show, you would own the building. So it's just, I wish I could go back and get Uber on day one, but you know, I just dollar cost average into the stock market, same amount every month out of every paycheck. And it's boring and it's slow, but I sleep better. And the other piece is just turn off the headlines. What good are they doing you at this point?

That, that's the part. And by the way, I, To branch off of George, I have bought land. That's a thing for me.

Deloney loves dirt.

And I love dirt.

Yeah.

And some call him a dirtbag.

In fact, quite a few people.

It's hard to believe.

But I do like it. And I like to tell myself, no, it's for recreation, for kids. It's for my friends when they come up. But also it's kind of a little, if it all goes down, I got a place to go. Right. So like, but That's, I mean, I'm gonna do that in the right way. I'm gonna do that with cash.

Yeah.

Right.

I'm gonna do that after I've secured like my, that I've got my own emergency fund for, for things that I know are gonna happen. Like the air conditioner's gonna go out, I'm gonna need a new fridge, things like that. And I'll tell you the way I've handled, rightly or wrongly, the way I've handled the anxiety that you're expressing, that George is talking about, is I made a commitment when I started retirement funding after a long conversation with the CFO of a big company back in Texas when I was gonna pull it all out and beat the market and do this and all that is I'm gonna, I'm gonna put money in retirement and I'm not, I, I'm, I'm not, I'm committed to the end of that ride. Kind of like going to Disneyland, getting on the roller coaster. I'm just not gonna jump off of it. So if there's not an end to this thing and we all fly off into space and then crash to the ground, I got on, right? So yeah, I, I'm just not gonna— I've committed, I'm putting it in there, and I'm not going to take it out. So I'm just along for the ride now.

That's encouraging. Yeah, we're, uh, you know, we've, we've had our, our fair share of time, uh, not having, uh, what we need and want to make sure that our future is set up for success and The best way to do that seems to be the market. But yeah, no, I really appreciate it.

And also double-click on that. The market, yes, long-term, but a way to quell anxiety in the present is to not owe anybody any money. And I know that sounds cheesy because we're Ramsey. That's all we ever say. If you don't owe anybody anything, you don't have a house payment, I promise you the anxiety overall goes down. Every single time.

Yeah, you wanna be on the right side of that, earning interest instead of paying it, and you will sleep better at night. Congrats on making it to Baby Step 3. Keep going, man.

Okay, George, we hear from so many people that are trying to live out the Ramsey Plan, right? They're getting out of debt and everything, but the hard thing is there's not many banks out there that actually support the way we teach people to handle money.

Yeah.

Most banks, they don't want you to win with money. So they charge a bunch of nuisance fees. There's all this fine print. And worst of all, they are pushing debt products at you nonstop.

Yes.

But the good thing is, is that Fairwinds isn't like most banks.

They're not like the other guys.

They're not like the other guys.

Yeah.

They are not pushing debt and they actually want you to win with the Baby Steps. And so what's great too is they created the Smart Bundle for Ramsey fans. Which includes a high-yield savings account and no monthly fee checking.

Which is huge because it's rare to have a checking account tied to a high-yield savings account. You can get all of that with Fairwinds. And for the nerds out there, you can have 10 different high-yield savings accounts for different goals. So you got your emergency fund, the car upgrade fund, the vacation fund. The world is your oyster.

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Oh, that's beautiful.

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We—

That's a conversation starter.

It's so good. Well, and when you swipe or you tap, you know, every time you take it outta your wallet, you're remembering that you are living like no one else and you're being intentional with your money.

I've been using Fairwinds for months and months now. I love their features, the app, the customer service. It is all so good and so aligned with the Ramsey principles.

Absolutely. So y'all, we both bank at Fairwinds and we love their commitment to Ramsey values.

So check it out. You can get that smart bundle. We're gonna drop a link in the description, or you can go to fairwinds.org/ramsey today.

That's right. That's fairwinds.org/ramsey, insured by the NCUA.

Sarah's in Tampa, Florida, up next. Sarah, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure, how can we help?

So, uh, I have an issue with my mom. Um, last year she lost her job and sadly she has not been able to find work even though she's been trying, having interviews. The issue is that she will not change her spending habits. She won't budget. She won't listen to any advice. Trying to help her is like pulling a mule out of concrete. And my husband and I just don't know what to do. We've just kind of thrown up our hands and said, okay, She's just gonna do whatever she wants to do, and we just don't know what to do.

Is there anything other than throwing your hands up that you think you could do?

Honest, I feel like we've exhausted everything to try to help her. We've sat down with her, family members have sat down with her, family friends. In the beginning of last year, she even did the financial piece, um, and that didn't change her spending habits even then when she had a job. Um, We, we just don't know how to convince her to like change her spending habits to make her situation better. Her only income is her Social Security and she goes into the negative every single time. And yet she's crying, she doesn't have money for gas and this. And it's like, well, if, if you'd stop getting your nails done and buying expensive groceries, you would probably be able to have extra money.

But she just, she won't listen.

Does she have somebody, you or your siblings, does she have people bailing her out all the time?

Um, I think she has like a longtime friend that I think she has asked for money from here and there. Um, she has asked to borrow money from us now and again, and then it's like, well, when I get my Social Security check, I'll pay you back.

Um, did y'all give it to her?

You know, stuff like that. Uh, we do only because we know that she does pay back. When that check comes in. But, um, that's the extent of it.

What does she make?

Her Social Security is like $1,588 a month, somewhere around there.

Yeah.

How does she pay rent or her mortgage?

Um, she pays it with her Social Security check and everything else. Like, she's constantly in the negative and, you know, she gets behind on her bills.

That's—

I'm confused how she's even paying you back. for money she borrowed if she's in the negative every month just trying to cover her own bills?

Yeah, because as soon as that check lands, like, she'll pay us back the $40 we loaned her for gas money or whatever. And then, you know, we've even offered, like, we'll manage your, your bills for you. Like, you know, just give us password, we'll take care of it. And she won't do it.

Is she renting?

She lives with us. So she's been living with us for the last 4 years.

Well, you buried the lead there. So she's got free housing.

Oh, I'm sorry.

No, no, she does not.

She's not going to be homeless. I'm just trying to figure out how do we just set her up to where she's got food, shelter, utilities, transportation, and anything else is by the wayside?

Because here's the path toward the starting line for you and your husband not losing your own minds and your own marriage in this conflict is autonomy, agency. That's the nerd word. Y'all two are in the driver's seat. Y'all make the choices. Y'all make the decisions. And number 2 is choosing reality, trafficking, trafficking in here's what is real, not what we hope, not what we wish, all that kind of stuff. And so what you're telling me is she already lives with you. No matter what you do, she's not going to change. And so the only people that you can change right now are you and your husband. That's— I mean, and you can't change him. You can change yourself. You can decide, I'm going to show up as this person. The only thing I will ask you to do, I'll plead with you, is if you're gonna give your mom money, A, don't ever loan it to her because that just— it like, 'cause then you start, even if you don't want to, you start eyeballing, oh, you went and did this. Oh, you went and did that. Or why'd you buy this? You owe me $40.

Like, don't put yourself in that position or her. If you're gonna give her $50, give her $50.

Yeah.

And I think it's best done at the beginning of a, like you and your husband sit down and say, okay, here's reality. What are we going to contribute and how much, if any? And then y'all sit down clear as kind. You sit down with your mom and say, here's the new reality. We're gonna give you $100 a month and you're gonna live here and we're moving on. Or we're gonna let you live here rent-free cuz you're mom and we're not kicking you in the street. Or your time here is over. You gotta live with your decision, right? So y'all get to where you're gonna be. Own your decisions and then based in reality and then move forward. Because right now what you're doing is you're banging your head up against a problem. And I, I can't think of few things other than the loss of, of somebody like through, through death or separation. I can't think of, of, of many more things that are more heartbreaking than when somebody you love needs help and they won't accept your help.

Mm-hmm.

It's heartbreaking. It's a season of grief. I would love to love my mom in this way and she refuses to allow it. So then after that point, all I can choose is who I'm going to be and what I'm going to do next.

Right.

Was there any agreement when she moved in of, here's how this is going to go?

Yes. So we sat down with her and we made a written agreement that—

Good for you.

The first year with us would— yeah, well, because she has decades long of bad spending habits. Um, so the agreement was the first year would actually be rent-free. The deal was though, we would have to manage her bills and help her get out of debt, which we did. We helped her, you know, it was her money because she had a job, but like we made sure that her bills got paid on time, no car payments. So she doesn't have any debt.

So that's good.

Um, but then after that first year, she would start paying rent and contributing to the household. Um, and so that, that was our written agreement and she stuck, she stuck to it. But like I said, she lost her job a year ago, hasn't been able to find work, but— She still gets her nails done. She still does streaming services, you know, just things that she doesn't need that—

And so on the other side of her own situation, on the other side of any written agreement, there has to be an or what. So what is y'all's or what? You're gonna evict her?

No. Okay.

And listen, I wouldn't evict my mom either. So there's no shade here. I just want you to own like, We had this plan, but we didn't think through the or what. And basically your mom's calling your bluff.

Yeah.

You're not gonna kick me out. And if you're not gonna kick her out, then don't kick her out. But don't sit there and stew over, we have this agreement that she's not following, cuz y'all didn't have the or what attached to that agreement.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I, dude, I applaud you. You're a hero to me for even sitting down and getting a written agreement, like, in the first place. Most people never do that with their aging parents, so good for you.

Um, are you guys in a good place financially?

I mean, we, we do make good money. However, we do have debt of our own. Um, we are doing the, the snowball effect. My husband has 2 jobs. I'm trying to get a second job so we can pay down that rent. We would love to, um, and to be clear too, we Invited her to live with us when the situation became difficult for her. We felt that it was the biblical right thing to do. So that was why we even agreed for her to live with us in the first place. Um, but we're, we're trying to get our own debt paid off. We would love to get in a place financially where we could just support her so she could just live her life and not even have to worry about— I mean, she's 77. She should be retired.

Sure.

But she doesn't have retirement. She doesn't have anything. Because of the decisions she's made throughout her life. We would love to be able to just support her, but we can't. So we're, we're in the Baby Step 1. We're trying to snowball our debt, working 2 jobs.

And she knows all of this? You've sat down and said all of this to her? She understands the full situation?

Yep, she does.

And does she have her own debit card? How is she spending money? Does she have access to a credit card?

Um, I don't know if she has access to a credit card, but she does have her own debit card. Yeah.

Okay. I would make sure she doesn't have access to a credit card. That way we can limit the damage. And I would consider creating a situation where you give her her envelope of her budget for the month with cash or your own debit card where you can control the funding of it so that she doesn't damage her own finances. That might be a good compromise where she still has some autonomy, but she's not going to go out there blowing her Social Security check every single month.

So to be clear, we should kind of do an Or else, you know, kind of situation with her to basically force her hand because nothing she's done has allowed us to—

And you can do that because she lives with you. You are holding some cards here.

Yeah. It's either make peace with your situation and stop going to bed angry. That's a choice. Or yeah, have an or what? We're going to give you $50 at the beginning of a month and there will be no more money. Don't ask. Right. And so you get to control what you do in this situation. Um, and by the way, I hate this for you. I hate this for everyone involved.

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James is in St. Louis up next. James, welcome to the show. How can we help?

So I am wondering, I have nothing invested. I'm wondering if I should— 43 years old and wondering if I should do a Roth IRA at this point or just an individual brokerage account.

Why are you, uh, using both of those options? Why the brokerage account?

The thing I don't like about an IRA is I don't like not being able to get to the money if I need it.

Well, you're 43. What would you use the money for before you're 60?

Well, it'd be one of those, like, if I lose my job or something and need it, then I just want to have access to it, basically.

Okay, so in case of emergency, you'd want to have some cash. Can we build you an emergency fund that does that in a high-yield savings account?

Um, I, I currently have $10,000 saved.

Okay.

And I have no debt.

Good.

So what would be 6 months of expenses for you? Let's say you lost your job and for 6 months you couldn't find one.

I would need— I had that somewhere and I lost that.

$20,000?

$30,000?

It would actually be— the $10,000 would cover 6 months.

That's not mathematically possible.

Unless you have no house payment, no car payment. Right.

I have no house payment.

Is the house paid off?

Yes. Wow.

Okay. So you're in a good spot then because you can invest as much as you want. What's your household income?

Uh, it is $40,000.

Okay. So $40K a year. And how do you have a paid-off house? I'm curious.

I, um, would be an inheritance.

Okay.

All right. So we recommend investing 15% until the house is paid off, but after that you can invest even more. So in your situation where you wanna make up for lost time, I would be investing into a Roth IRA to start. And, you know, 15%, you'd be right there to max it out. So you can start with a Roth IRA. Do you have an employer retirement plan as well?

Um, I don't have one set up. They do offer one.

Do you know what it is?

But I don't, I don't know.

Okay. So that's part of your homework. Thing one is find out what your employer retirement plan is. They might have a Roth 401 option, and that'll just come right outta your paycheck before it hits your bank account. And I love that idea because you're sort of forcing the discipline.

Okay.

But a Roth IRA is a great option that's not tied to your employer. You can just go open one. And if you want help with that, you can reach out to a SmartVestor Pro at ramseysolutions.com to walk you through that. But the goal here is we want to have money when we can't work anymore with tax advantages. So the Roth is fantastic for that because you're going to pay the taxes now, but then you won't pay taxes again. So think of that as net income in retirement.

Okay.

And I like that it's locked away until 60+, because I don't want you robbing that brokerage account that was supposed to be for James's retirement All because an emergency happened. So that's why I'm recommending you have a bigger emergency fund because all it takes is 1 or 2 things happening at once for you to blow $10K just like that.

Yeah.

That's my concern for you, brother, is having $10,000 as your full emergency fund. Man, I had to replace my entire central air conditioning unit 2 months ago, maybe a month and a half ago. And it was way more than that. You know what I'm saying? Just a roof or, uh, like, man, getting some sort of cushion. What do you do for a living where you, where you make 40 grand?

I'm at a Walmart distribution center.

Okay. Is there any room for advancement there or for overtime to where you could just hit the gas for a year and get yourself a little more cushion across the board?

Um, a little bit of overtime, but not really a lot.

Okay. Is there an ability for you to do rideshare in the evenings? Like, if, if you listen to the show, you hear these heroic stories of folks who just pause their life for 18 months and they work 2 jobs, 3 jobs, 4 jobs. They do janitorial work at the church on the weekends, then they go drive rideshare, then they work full-time, then they take whatever overtime they can get. Like, but they just do it for a season, a short maniacal sprint to get themselves out of this cycle. of always being on the edge, to get some margin in your life. You know what I mean? Just some peace.

Okay.

How much margin do you have currently every month? If I said, hey, after all the bills are paid, how much could you invest?

I could do about $700 a month.

Okay. Can I plug that into a calculator to show you what would happen if you invested that into a Roth IRA?

Yes.

All right. So you're 43 right now. Let's say you retire at 67. Is that fair from your late start?

Yes.

Okay.

$700 a month from the age of 43 to the age of 67. I'm gonna go with a 10% annual rate of return. If you invest it well into mutual funds and index funds, that's what you'll see. I'm gonna hit calculate. You would have $832,000. And if that's in a Roth account, act like that's net income, 'cause you're not gonna pay taxes on that. Pretty impressive.

Okay.

Considering you only put in $200 grand of that. Over $600,000 was just compound growth. Now let's say you could invest $1,000. Can we aim a little higher?

Yes.

That would turn into $1.2 million almost. Now we're talking.

Okay.

Between that and Social Security, you might be able to retire with some dignity. So that'll just help you kind of get in your head what it's gonna take to retire at 67 as a millionaire. And it's very much possible, but I wanna dig into more of what do you want from life in the meantime? Are you single?

Yes.

Okay. So paint me a picture of James 5 years from now. If I could wave a magic wand, what does his life look like?

I would be—

Are you still single? Are you still doing the same job?

Probably not doing the same job, but I would still be single, yes.

Okay, so that's intentional.

I don't want to continue to start a family.

So at least we have some homework on the career side. It sounds like there's something that you'd rather be doing. that you haven't pursued yet. Is that fair?

Yes.

And what is that thing? Do you know?

No. Um, I have been trying to learn, um, coding and iOS development.

Okay. And what have you been doing to learn?

I have been doing, um, online courses and trying to find mentors and stuff like that to teach how to do it.

Cool.

So that might be a future where 5 years from now you're a software engineer or developer making $80K. And as you can see, that would multiply the numbers here as we save for retirement. So the more money you save, the more compound growth can take hold, and the longer time horizon you have, the more that will grow. So that's the simple factors of retirement. The only time I'd recommend a brokerage account for that kind of flexibility you're talking about is if someone let's say wanted to retire at 55 and have a sort of bridge to get them there. But in your case, I think you're gonna need to be working past 60, and therefore I would take the tax advantages of that Roth account or even traditional account to make that happen. But John, there's a lot here. A lot of people listening to the show feel like they have a late start. They're in their 30s, their 40s, they haven't invested yet. And I love this example from James to show you that you can still retire a millionaire, a million dollars in an account, Just by starting at 43 and putting in $700 a month.

Now some people go, well, George, must be nice to have $700. And I go, hey, add up your debt payments for me. And they go, okay, that's car payments, $500, student loans are another $400, the credit cards. Okay, we just found $1,000 right there that could be used for investing if we decided we're going to go hard at this debt and knock it out.

Right. And man, it feels so obtuse these days because it is hard out there, man.

It is.

I just filled my truck up yesterday and it put me in such a bad mood.

Oof.

Right? It was just, and I know you and your gas-free vehicle that drives itself.

We also have a minivan, John. So.

Oh, minivan. Nice.

Yeah.

So I, man, I get it. And there's that old saying, like, conflict deferred is conflict amplified. You're going to have to face the music now. And, or at some point you want to face it when there's some government entity saying, this is going to be your retirement home and your bed, and this is who you're going to share it with, whatever. That's gonna come, or I'm gonna not buy this car. I'm gonna not do this. I'm not gonna have fancy pants things at 43, 47, 57 because I got a late start. Um, I'm gonna have, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the small things now that are inconveniences, that are uncomfortable so that I've got autonomy. At some point you've gotta, that's coming. I'd rather own it as soon as possible and make whatever choices I have to make right now so that I'm in the driver's seat later.

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10% off up to a $250 value. See store for details. If you're wondering why we keep mentioning baby steps, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, it's because they're the foundation of everything we teach. So if you're new here, start there. We'll drop a link in the description of this episode if you want to learn more about that framework. Jill is in Lincoln, Nebraska, up next. What's going on, Jill?

Hi, thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

My question is, how do I save for a large amount of money I will need to pay when my parents pass?

Oh, tell us more.

So we own a business together. I will inherit current value. It will be worth $3.8 million that I will need to pay my siblings for a different part of it, which current value would be right at $2 million. So do I do life insurance on my parents? Do I put money in a stock or a CD? What's the best way going about saving for that when that time comes?

Are they going to leave this business to you with the expectation that you disburse it equally among the siblings? Are they going to leave it— the worst-case scenario is they leave it to quote-unquote the kids.

No. Um, the will is written current values. Um, so it's land. We're farmers.

Okay.

What my part of that is, current value is $3.8 million, but I need to purchase the rest from my siblings.

Yeah, why do you have to buy them out?

Because he does—

they don't have enough cash on hand to pay them closer to equal. If that happened today, I would owe $2 million. But if I couldn't—

But it's locked inside of the land. It's not like, you know, can you pay them out of the profits of the business until they get there?

Yeah, over 10 years. Are they going to be this kind of siblings that are banging on your door saying, I want my money right now?

Um, so here's, um, let me mention this and then I'll see if I can answer. If I was unable to come up with the $2 million to pay them, if I sold it, current value today, it's worth $3.7 million.

Okay.

Um, so I, it's a farm. I would like to keep it together. I know this expense is coming. But I don't know how to— what's the best way to plan for that time?

Well, what are the profits generating from the farm? Because I have this conversation with some regularity now because of, especially in farming communities, and I've lived in 2 different farming communities, the land value has far exceeded the actual operating capital, the operating revenue of these farms. And it just takes one kid to come bang on the door and say, I want my money now. Or what I've seen is it's a spouse or an ex-spouse that says, I want my cash now. So it forces everybody's hand to either sell the property or to come up with some tricky loans or mess. How much on these 2 properties, like $6 million worth of farming land, how much money are you making every year? Do you, let me put it this way. Do you have the money to save up? $2 million as a buyout over the next 5, 10 years, however long your parents are alive?

10 years, probably yes. If I just put it away, did not make any improvements to the farm. 5 years, it would be close.

I mean, I don't see another way around it.

So you think don't keep the money like working for you, put it in account that's earning interest?

I'd put it in a high-yield savings account because you have a— you have, uh, well, it depends on when your parents are going to pass. Are they in good health?

Right, they are.

Okay, and how old are they?

They are 72.

So they could go to 92+ at this point if they're in good health at 72.

Yep.

Which means— does that mean your portion you have to pay out increases as the land appreciates?

Yes.

And as the business grows?

Um, what I pay is based on the assessor evaluation on the land.

So what if you owe them $10 million?

Right.

I don't know, you might not be able to save your way there. And even then, even if you got life insurance, it's going to be a moving target over time.

True.

If you got $2 million today and it's worth $10 million later on. So I would just have them restructure what's in the will so that you're not on the hook for this day one.

Well, it sounds like you're on the hook because you don't want them, your siblings, to sell that plot of land, right?

No, I do not. Okay. Um, it's, it's part of the business that we help run.

Right.

Um, pretty much what my parents thought was if I was given something valued at $3.8 million, I could get a loan easily for $2 million. But that's a loan. If I could—

And that's a good way to lose both plots.

True.

Yeah, let's take debt off the table as an option and explore some other ones. And that might mean you structure it differently, even if you do owe them this money. Maybe it's not day one. Maybe it's, hey, we're gonna pay this over 5 years after they pass. I'll pay this out in equal installments.

The earlier you structure that and have it written down so that they know, that way there's not somebody banging on your door year 2, like, gimme my money. And everybody's already like, it's in the will. Like, this is gonna get paid out over time off of earned, um, off of earnings, not off of borrowed money. I'll tell you, I have a, uh, like an ingrained in me experience of talking to an aging farmer who wept in front of me. And you know what a big deal that is to have an old West Texas farmer crying in front of me because of the debt load, because of the conversation he had with a banker saying, you have to do this and this and this to keep this property. And he realized he'd signed his soul away. Like, I, I'll never forget that. And so if you, and I know that debt just is crushing American farmers. If we tell people to sell their car and everything, I'm, I'm just— deeper roots than that, please don't go into debt over a future potential maybe situation.

And this has got enough zeros on it. I wouldn't trust 2 goobers on a podcast. I would contact an estate attorney that has experience with agricultural and have them draw up a structure that makes sense, that's fair to everybody. Because currently this is not fair to you to just owe that all of a sudden without being able to liquidate anything in the business.

And flip it around. Would you borrow, if this plot just happened to be next to your farm, would you borrow $2 million and buy it?

Yep.

Okay.

She loves this land, John. I'm not going to tear it out of her hands.

Yeah.

So, I mean, you're going to do what you're going to do. I just hate the thought. How leveraged are you on your property?

Um, my, my part of the business is paid off.

Okay.

Are you asking my current net worth?

Well, you're, you're free and clear on your $3-point-whatever million portion of this business, right?

Um, so that is the part he would be giving me at that time.

Okay.

What I currently have of my own, me and my husband, is $3.3 million.

Okay. So if I'm in your situation, I mean, it sounds— George and I— George gave me this, um, analogy off air about something else, but y'all, well, the Titanic sank. So you're in a boat and you see an iceberg coming, and right now that iceberg's valued at $2 million. You don't know when you're gonna hit it, but you know it's coming at some point. You're debt-free, you're operating your side of this business debt-free. I would just say, like, choosing reality, this thing's coming at us. I'm going to frantically save so that if and when the day comes, I can write each of my siblings a check. And now we've just expanded our entire operation. We've doubled our operation and we're free. It's ours. It's free and clear and it's ours.

Have you talked to your siblings about this?

Yes, we have. We had a family meeting about it and what to expect. And yeah.

And they're just like, hey, yeah, day one when mom and dad pass, we're going to get our share of this.

Yep.

That was the expectation. Everyone agreed, including you.

Um, so I have— from the date of the last passing parent, I have 9 months to say yes or no, I don't want this. If I don't want this, it just goes to my siblings. If I do want this, I currently owe the 2 But it's worth $3.7 million. So even if I had to sell it, it wouldn't— I need to make that purchase.

Well, I would— you can invest your way there and attempt that based on your income, but you might want to have a plan B in case you don't have all the money in full and in case this thing appreciates. I would look at it from all the angles and talk to an estate planning attorney to help you structure that. If you own a business, you know what a pain it is to find the right people. You don't just want a warm body who can fulfill the basic job requirements. You want a go-getter who actually wants the job. Somebody bought in from day one. But finding that someone buried in your inbox with 500 other applications, that makes finding a needle in a haystack sound simple. Which is why I love what ZipRecruiter is doing for small businesses. ZipRecruiter automatically puts the most qualified, most interested candidates at the top of your list with their new feature that lets candidates tell you in their own words why they want the role. So instead of playing resume roulette, you're interviewing the right people faster. And at Ramsey Solutions, we only hire people who believe in our mission, because someone who's genuinely bought in doesn't just show up to collect a paycheck.

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Hi. So I'm sorry if I sound a bit shaky. I'm a bit nervous.

That's all right. Take your time.

We're all good. Glad you're here.

So I just need help, like what, like what I need to do next step with my finance and You know, I just want to have a clear plan to pay off my debt. I made some stupid decisions at a young age. So yeah.

We all did.

We did.

It's okay. Yeah, it's okay. We all have our journeys. So how old are you now?

So I just turned 24 and recently I lost my job in July and I also do, um, like content creating. So social media influencing on the side, although they don't know anything about my personal life except fashion stuff. So I get brand deals. It's, you know, obviously you don't— their net is 30 to 60 to 90 days. Obviously you don't get paid right away. But since I lost my job in July, I've been, you know, getting brand deals throughout since July until October. And I haven't been able to get a job until recently. I got a new job.

Okay.

Um, that's gonna be paying me $24 an hour, but I will be working at a temporary job. They're all starting late. The temporary job's gonna start on October 13th, and the other one that's gonna be permanent. It'll be starting on November 2nd. And I have a lot of, you know, like, mis— overdue bills. And I also have a lot of debt with a lot of impulse spending and, you know, emotional spending. And also, I don't even drive and I have a car loan that I cosigned for my previous partner, my ex.

Mm-hmm.

And now it's in my hand and now I'm trying to fix it.

To—

I don't even know what to do. I don't even drive a car.

Where's the car right now?

So the car is at my current boyfriend. It's at his house and he's— I've been giving him money to fix it with whatever he needs. But you know, he's, he's been helping with other stuff.

I'm confused. Whose car is it?

It's my—

so the car's under my name.

But you said it's an ex?

Yeah. So it's cosigned, but I took the car back.

Okay, so the car isn't technically in your possession. I'm saying, could you go sell this car today if you wanted to?

So the—

he didn't take care of the car.

When I got the car back, the car— he had crashed the car.

It didn't total it.

It's just the front, like where the fluid's at, it's— you need a new bumper. And the seat inside, and he smoked, so he kind of destroyed where the gears and stuff like that. He ashed on there.

How much do you owe on it?

So on the car, I owe now it's like $9,502.50.

Okay.

And what about your other credit cards from impulse spending? Where are you at?

So I have 2 credit cards and I had, uh, it's now at $16,179.

Okay. So you owe $25 grand in total. Anything else?

Um, no, that is it.

Okay, so one of the keys— and I'm talking calm on purpose because I, I feel your sense of angst as you're like starting to walk through this. It's so laden with emotions. This guy destroyed a thing. Y'all had a thing together. He blew it. Like, all that, right? I get it. The path through for you— I want you to remember this statement: facts are your friends. Okay? Because really what you have— you do have a lot of relational challenges, emotional issues, betrayal. All that is real, and you're gonna have to process that. But right now you have an emergency math problem.

Yeah.

And the more we can focus on that, the, the, the more your body will sense itself getting back in the driver's seat of its own life, even though you don't drive, right?

Yeah.

And so I don't— I personally don't think you can wait 2 more weeks to start a temp job. I think you got to get on rideshare tonight.

So I have, I have some other money coming in, which is good. That's coming in So I have brand deals.

I know George and I both have brand deals, and we both know that those things come and go and move. Like, that's not stable, you know what I'm saying?

When is it coming and how much is it?

So I have one that's coming in, um, next week for $2,440, but I also take— put tax aside, and I also put tithes aside for 10% and then 20%. So total is like 30%. So it'll be left me with Um, around $1,952.

Okay. And what's your next bills to pay? What are you behind on right now?

I'm behind on my, my credit card bill.

Okay.

I'm behind my credit card bills and my utilities and the car loans. And yeah, that's the only thing. And then that's the thing I'm going to plan paying.

So let's get current on utility bills. So the thing you need to focus on right now is just one thing at a time. Right now it's your 4 walls. That's food, shelter, utilities, transportation. So you get current on your utilities. This is like all about survival, right? That's the base layer. Next, let's pay the car because that thing's gonna get repoed if you miss a couple payments, and then you're gonna be on the hook for the difference. They're gonna sell it at auction and still come after you.

They're gonna sell it for $1,000 and you're gonna owe $8,000 on a thing you're not even holding.

So then let's get current on that. That's your next A1. Then we'll worry about the credit cards later. Those I'm the least worried about. I want you out of it and we'll get you out of it, but right now you need to just Keep the lights on and keep that asset that you have in that car.

And there's a, there's a, there's a phrase we use in the, in the brand deal world, and that is mailbox money. You've heard that before?

No.

Okay. It's, it's just a check that comes and you're happy when it comes.

You just sort of woke up and money showed up.

But you don't live on that. You have to have a job where you're earning income. And then when you get a check in the mail for $2,000, awesome. It goes to debts, it goes to savings, it goes to that fancy guitar you wanted to buy, whatever. It's mailbox money, but it is not— we're not just going to sit around twiddling our thumbs waiting for it.

You've—

you have to go be hyper proactive.

So when is your rent due?

So my rent due this month, and, uh, it's, it's— well, I have credits, uh, towards it, so it's $1,194 because I overpaid the last one.

Okay.

So my, my rent due this month is $1,194.82, which I'm planning to use the money I have I'm thinking I'm not gonna take the tax out and the 10% out yet. And I'll do that with the next brand deals instead, since it's—

I would not recommend that. That's a recipe for waking up with a $10,000 tax bill. And more importantly, it's another sign that you're not living in alignment with your values. And if tithing is an important value for yours, let's live within our values because you've lived outside of them and you find yourself in a mess.

Fair?

Yeah.

So I would take that $2,000 check, pay my rent, make sure my rent is paid, make sure I've got heat for this Boston winter that's coming. I got lights on, and then we're going to start worrying about the other things. Is that fair?

Right.

Have you ever done a budget, Misty, where you actually put this on paper or in an app?

So I'd done it before, but I wasn't, you know, I wasn't taking it seriously.

I—

Are you ready to take it seriously?

Yes, I am.

Okay, good. I'm going to help you take it seriously. I'm going to give you our EveryDollar Premium app. It's on the house if you actually use it. And in that app, here's what you're gonna find in the onboarding process. It's gonna actually help you with personalized recommendations to create more margin. Margin is what you're looking for here. The gap between what you make and what you spend, and that whatever's left over, we can throw at the debt. So that will help you do that. You're gonna list your income at the very top, then all of your expenses. Four walls come first. We talked about that. Then minimum payments on the debts. Then we can figure out how much we actually have left over, if there's anything to throw at the debts. You're gonna list those debts smallest to largest balances, not the interest rates. EveryDollar will do that for you. You're just gonna attack the little one, make minimum payments on the rest, focus on one at a time, smallest balance first, the next smallest, the next smallest. And if you can go make $50,000, $60,000, $70,000, $80,000 this year, you can pay off $25,000 in no time.

Then you can worry about the car later if you can't sell it right now because of all of its issues.

But you need money, so go start earning today.

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We're headed to Portland, Maine up next. Renee joins us there. What's going on, Renee?

Uh, hi, good afternoon.

How are you doing?

I'm well. So here's my question. Um, my husband and I are very blessed. We've been married for 26 years and we are still very much in love. Gross, gross.

I love it, I love it.

Um, his insane work ethic has which has just been an absolute dream. I took care of the kids. He took care of all of the making of our money and managing our finances and our retirement. Recently, I went back to work now that the kids are grown. And last week, a coworker was asking a question about a new withholding from the paychecks at our company because of a new benefit company that we're using. were working with, and she asked a question about my paycheck, like, was I seeing this withholding? And when I told her I've never actually seen my pay stubs, my husband, you know, gets them and takes care of everything, she got very concerned for me. And every day she's been telling me I'm in a vulnerable position and he has too much power. So my question is, is it okay for the one person I trust more than anyone in the world to be 100% in charge of my finances? of our money, or am I being a little irresponsible?

I agree with your coworker, but not for the reason that she is stating.

Yeah.

So can I get dark for a second? Is that okay?

Okay.

I've had multiple, like count on 2 hands, not one, times when I've sat with Young all the way to old widows whose husband just passed away.

Yeah.

And there's a particular haunting look in their eyes when they say, I have no idea where anything is. I don't know where the banks are. I don't know where our money's invested. I don't know what the insurance is. I even had one woman who was amazing. Her husband was a friend of mine. He was, uh, it was a colleague of mine and, um, probably 30 years older than me. Great guy. literally just passed away, like suddenly. And she said, I know we have tons of money, but I need groceries today. And waiting for disbursements, insurance checks, all that. Like she, she didn't know how to get cash because he always just took care of it all. He always just made sure everything was taken care of. And so I do think you're in a very vulnerable position. Yes. Like the nature of my job and George's job is we get call after call of people saying, I super trusted my partner and then I found out All the secret stuff. Let's don't even go there with you. It's a matter of, of safety, quite honestly.

Just if something happened to him, what would you do?

Yeah, what would you do?

You don't know the logins, the account numbers.

We do have files with all of the account numbers and passwords that he gives me, and we keep it updated, but I've actually never logged on to see them because—

So here's—

I'm busy raising kids and he's busy working.

Let me tell you what me and my wife do, and I won't tell you to do anything that we don't do. Once a year we get together and in, in our house, my wife is the one who actually hits send on the bills, right? Like she gets the electronic bills, she makes the payments, all that kind of stuff. All of our money's in one checking account and I mess with all of the retirement investments and taxes and all that kind of stuff. Once a year we get together, we make sure our, our documents, what you have is what we have is a document that says, here's all the logins, here's all the passwords, here's the insurance logins, all that stuff. So, If one of us just drops dead, we got, we each got that form, but also we go an extra step and I pull up, here's the retirement accounts, here's the cash accounts, here's what we have, and here's our total net worth. And I actually, I'm a nerd, so I get, uh, I have a friend of mine who's a Ramsey real estate pro and she runs comps for me. I just wanna be able to say, here's our net worth today.

And then we walk through, here's how much it costs to operate the house this year from lights to like to water bill, all that kind of stuff. But I just, I, for me and for her, I want everyone to know where everything is and what state everything is in.

And yeah, I, I have access to that information.

Yeah.

But you don't have a partnership.

Right.

And so there's—

And I was also wondering if I'm kind of being a bad wife. Like, I don't know how big of a job or how stressful it is to manage all of the money. He, he does it wonderfully.

I'm not gonna call you a, a bad wife, but I'm gonna tell you that yes. It is an extraordinary burden to carry it all.

Yes.

So can you be curious tonight and say, hey, can you walk me through the financial stuff? You've been carrying so much for so long, and I'm just curious how this all works. I know I have access.

And I just explain what you're doing. I just had an epiphany that one of us is just going to fall over one day. And nobody wants to think about that, but 100% of us, Are gonna die. Um, have y'all done a will together? Do you know where all that stuff is?

Yes. We, we've, we go to the lawyer every couple years and make sure it's updated.

So even you knowing, hey, where's our money? What are the accounts? What's our net worth? Like, do you have also some real estate holdings that I don't, that, not that I don't know about 'em in an untrustworthy way, but I just wouldn't know. You know what I mean? Uh, man, I, I think this is a way to bring y'all really close together. And I will tell you right now, Again, going dark for just a second. If he says no, that is a red flag.

Okay, well, I mean, he's listening right now, so I'm sure we're going to be doing that.

Yeah, so far it doesn't sound like he's doing anything malicious. It sounds like you just don't care, and so you're like, ah, I'm good, he's got it covered. But it's wise to have him explain what's going on in the pay stub. Explain to me what taxes are taken out, what retirement's going, what am I invested in. I think it would've actually bonded you as a couple if you both had that purview. And I think he'd appreciate it because he wants to nerd out on this stuff with you, but you've let him know, I don't really care.

Right.

And it may have been that y'all's marital arrangement is he has no idea what dentist your kids have gone to and when their school schedules and all. There's something about sharing that stuff, even if one of you manages it day in and day out, man, there's just power in knowing we're both on the same team all the way through.

You'll love it. Great question, Renee. Brandy's up next in Little Rock. How can we help, Brandy?

Hey, so I'm, I'm in a little bit of a pickle. I've, uh, I've done the EveryDollar.

Um, I've—

long story short, I've—

I had everything set this year to pay everything off but my house.

I was going to be debt-free on all of my debt. And I am trying to figure out how to rebudget with not knowing what my income is and increasing my hours at my part-time job.

And I'm still falling short. I'm like $200 over my budget.

Okay.

Are you working— so you're working part-time right now?

Yes.

Okay. Are you single?

The part-time job?

Yes.

Okay.

What about your part-time job?

So, um, I had the part-time job to pay off debt.

That's what I got it for. And now it is my primary source of income, but I can't—

What happened to the full-time job?

Full-time, I got let go.

What were you making doing that?

Um, doing that, I was making about $2,400 A month.

Okay.

And now what are you making with the part-time job?

Uh, well, I haven't increased my hours, so it's $800 a month.

And what are your bills every month?

Um, I did not add all of them up.

How long, how long ago did you get laid off, Brandy?

I got laid off in June.

In June. Okay. Um, are you scrambling like mad to find a second job?

I've applied to over 100 jobs since June, and before that, over 200 jobs before that since 2024.

Okay.

What kind of work were you doing?

I was just not an entry level, but I was in banking, just your basic banker.

Okay.

And you want to get back to that? Is that the goal?

No, I want to stay in banking.

I just don't want to do the role that I was in.

But again, that's not the only thing that I've been applying for so that I'm not limiting myself in just one field because I'm open to learn new fields.

For now, it's going to be just covering the basics. You might need to just make minimum payments on the debts and those 4 walls come first. And that's your food, your housing costs, your transportation. So can you make at least enough to cover that for the next month if you just hustle and do 3 jobs?

Um, it would depend on the job because I'm physically limited.

Well, currently your life depends on it. And so we need to find work that you can do to bring in enough income to at least cover the bills. And that just means the debt journey might be a little bit delayed, but every dollar's going to be your path forward. That is the facts. That's what you need on paper to make this work. Wishing you the best.

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John, I'm already starting my packing list for the Live Like No One Else cruise. It's happening March 14th through the 21st, 2027. That's 7 nights in the Western Caribbean with Dave and all of us Ramsey personalities and about, I don't know, 2,600 awesome Ramsey fans who have become debt-free. And we want to celebrate that. And so this kind of is a milestone marker for so many people. If you've paid off all the debt but the house, or even the house included, this cruise is for you. Come celebrate with us. All-inclusive pricing starts at $2,100 a passenger. That includes your cabin, food, entertainment, taxes, tips, all in there. So click the link in the show notes or go to ramseysolutions.com/events to book your cabin. It's going to be a good time. Calvin is in Minneapolis up next. Calvin, welcome to the show.

Hi, how's it going?

Good. How are you?

Better than I deserve.

We love to hear that.

Uh, my question is, should I lower investing from the 15% and make it 8% so I can save up a down payment on the house or pay the house off because of how much I already have invested?

So you don't currently own a home?

No, but this is a question for the future when I get there, because it'll be about a year from now.

So 1 year from now, you're currently investing 15%?

Uh, well, right now I am paying off the debt, which is about $15,000, but I'm putting $3,000 a month towards that.

Oh, so this is a ways away. You're in Baby Step 2 and you're looking at Baby Step 7.

Yeah, I'm trying to plan for the future here.

Okay, well, here's what we— I would say in Baby Step 2, you're only focused on the debt, of course. Then we've got the emergency fund in Baby Step 3. 3 to 6 months of expenses, then you're in Baby Step 3B. That's where you would begin saving a down payment. And this is a choose-your-own-adventure. Some people choose to invest nothing during that time and just save up a down payment aggressively for 1 to 2 years. Some people choose to invest 15%, or maybe you split the difference, take the match from your employer and put the rest towards the down payment fund. So what's your plan for that?

Well, I already have about $200,000 in investments, so my That's kind of where this question stems from, is because I already have that much in at such a young age, should I lower that percentage and actually try to hammer all this stuff out?

How old are you?

19.

Oh wow, how'd you get $200 grand in retirement at 19?

Uh, unfortunately an inheritance.

Oh, someone passed away, huh?

Yeah.

Okay, so this wasn't like earned wealth that you saved up and invested?

No.

Okay. Well, here's what I would tell you. Investing is a muscle. And right now, even though you may not quote unquote need it, again, we don't know what the future holds. I would be flexing that muscle to go, I'm a guy who invests consistently, no matter what's going on, no matter what my income is, I'm comfortable putting that money away and living on what's left.

Sure.

Now you might do that after Baby Step 3B. So that could be, you just save up aggressively for that down payment. What's your income?

Um, about $120,000 a year on my full-time, and then I have a part-time.

Amazing.

Well done, dude. What do you do for a living at 19?

Uh, I'm a conductor, trains.

Nice.

Fantastic. Okay, so you're saying you're gonna be debt-free in a couple of months?

Yeah, that's the plan.

A couple more months. You have the emergency fund?

Uh, I have a starter one, gonna build that one up.

Okay. So by, I don't know, spring, you're gonna be starting to save up the down payment?

Yes.

And then by summer of 2028, you're hoping to buy a home?

That's correct.

Okay.

Nice.

I would continue investing 15% of whatever your income is until that house is paid off. I would not lower it to 8%. I know you have a good starting point with that $200 grand, but I think that muscle's too important to not let it atrophy by going, well, I could invest less. I can go down to 8%. I think there's something very wise about investing no matter what. And if you have too much money in retirement later on down the road, you can call back and send me hate mail. I'm fine with that.

And I'll tell you this, Calvin, there was a year that my wife and I unplugged investing because we were so close to paying our house off that we just went, we basically Baby Step 2'd the house in 4, 5, and 6. And But we were well into the pro— the process. Do you get what I'm saying?

Yeah.

And so just doing it as a way of life over 5, 10, 15 years, man, future you is gonna pay the price for having no investments out there. Um, but as a momentary pause in action to aggressively do something else, I, I, that's what I did in my house.

Okay.

But it's just not a, a, a good long-term You're talking to 2 guys who hate mortgages probably more than anyone in this building. So we are all for you aggressively paying it off. But in that case, here's what I did, Calvin. I kept investing 15% and I found other ways to pay off the house faster.

Ooh, George is better than me.

So all that to say, I'm better than John. And I would encourage you to do the same because what you have working for you is amazing work ethic and skill. And so just put that to good use and invest the whole time. And on top of that, if you want to pay it off faster, I think you're going to find a way because you're going to make more money over time, right?

Yeah. Yep. Every year you get 8% raise.

And once you pay off the debt and have the emergency fund, all that margin can now go towards the down payment. Once you have the mortgage, now we can apply that extra to the principal on the mortgage. So my guess is you're going to be debt-free before you're 30. Can we all agree on that?

I hope so. Yeah.

Just make that the goal. And you will be so far, you're already so far ahead of America as a whole, let alone 19-year-olds. So man, if you can just stay out of debt and you take on that mortgage, 15-year fixed rate, no more than a quarter of your take-home pay, and then make a plan, say, I'm going to knock this out in 7 years.

And it will also impact the size of the house you buy at 20 or 21, right? If you're reducing the amount you are investing and it will feel like who have got a bunch of extra money, I can qualify for a bigger house. Like, just stay on the track, man. Stay on the track. I'd rather you have a— be 30 and have a paid-off house that's a little bit smaller, a little bit more— that it's yours. It's yours at 30, man. Then you're, you're way ahead of the game, crushing it.

Brandon is in Louisville, Kentucky. What's going on, Brandon? You there?

Hey, so yes, sir.

What's going on?

So my question is, I've accumulated debt. I'm a recovering gambling addict. Um, been clean for 7 months, working a program.

Congratulations, homie.

Congratulations.

Awesome. Thank you. And you know, that's the— that's one of the biggest steps. But, um, currently, uh, on a $15,000 IRS payment plan over the next couple years and also about $30,000 in credit card debt. Um, my wife wants separate accounts because she says she doesn't trust me with the money. Um, and just trying to figure out the best way to attack all this, you know, while maintaining on the course.

How, how long is she gonna— going to— do y'all have a plan for reunification there financially, or is this just indefinite?

So hopefully we're kind of going through a trial separation right now. You know, everything still is joint. Um, I'm staying with my mom.

Oh, so it's not just your— it's just not, not just your money that's separated, it's your marriage is separated.

Yes. And so I'm going back and forth. I'm going back and forth to our house, um, you know, a couple nights a week to spend it with the kids.

Okay.

Um, without, you know, we don't want to flip their lives upside down.

Well, you know, let me say this, their lives already are upside down. The quicker y'all can own that and manage the upside-downness instead of pretending— how, um, What are the parameters of this separation?

So honestly, we're just kind of just going with, like, going with the flow. You know, it sounds weird, but our kids have kind of gotten the routine. Okay. Of, and so we're trying to keep it consistent with, with our house, you know, letting them stay in the house.

Sure. So here's what I wanna, I wanna, I wanna really encourage you. Okay.

Yeah.

When you do a separation, Yeah. Put some parameters on it. And here's what I mean. In 30 days, we're gonna go have lunch together. In 60 days, we're going to X, Y, or Z. Because if you don't, it, what ends up happening is one or both of you are seeking this thing called it feels right. And it's, it, it's really difficult for that. You end up making feeling-based, emotion-based decisions and you don't end up coming back together in a way that both of you are very clear about what coming back together actually means. You miss each other so bad you just throw caution to the wind, or she continues to feel not safe, not trustworthy, whatever, and you get further and further and further apart. And really, a separation then just becomes a feelings-based trial divorce. And so you, brother, gotta— if, if you're out on your own and you're separated right now, living in your mom's house, George, tell me if I'm wrong, like, bro, you've got one plan, and that is to work 3 jobs, 4 jobs, 5 jobs, Work exhaustively, because you've got some debts to pay off ASAP.

You're doing this debt snowball on your own, and I would attack that IRS debt first, because they can really screw up your life, garnish your wages. So I would just go ahead and knock that out.

Maniacal.

Then work on the credit cards, and depending on your income, this might take a year, 2 years, in the middle of the storm you're already in. But man, stay on the path. Way to go.

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Our question of the day is brought to you by Ask Ramsey, your free AI money tool that provides personalized money answers based on Ramsey principles. Check it out at ramseysolutions.com/askramsey.

All right, today's question comes from Eddie in Montana. Eddie writes, I love sinking funds.

Nerd.

I've only heard that sentence from one other person, and that's you, George.

Yeah, I, I submitted this question.

I love sinking funds, but I'm worried I started them too soon. When a major car repair came up before my emergency fund was fully funded, I drained several sinking funds to avoid debt, and now I feel broke again. Should I have a fully funded emergency fund before starting sinking funds?

Oof.

Good question, man.

Yeah. Sinking funds happen regardless of your Baby Step. Now you don't want to go overboard and have like 48 sinking funds while you're trying to pay off debt. You want the margin to go toward the debt, but things like car maintenance and repairs, like, you know, you're going to have to get new tires. You know, you have to get an oil change. Let's set that money aside every month so that it's there when we need it. Now you had a major car repair come up. So that's a little bit different. You were going to feel broke and luckily you avoided debt.

Right.

So even if you drain these sinking funds, you did the right thing by not going into debt and using other money, even if you have to replenish those sinking funds later. So just know it's going to get easier once you're out of debt with a fully funded emergency fund and you have those sinking funds building. You're not going to feel broke anymore. So right now you feel broke because you are kind of broke. That's sort of the game when you're in Baby Step 2.

I would've told them to save up and get an emergency fund and then start saving for things like a new car, a new boat, or whatever. But I guess a sinking fund can also be for, I'm gonna need new tires this year. I know that, right? So to me it depends on what's the nature of a sinking fund. Is it for—

It's not for emergencies.

A new car someday, or is it, I'm gonna need tires? Because I, for me, I'll just put that in my budget, but I guess that's technically a sinking fund.

Yeah. It just depends on if it's a big bill, like a $1,200 insurance bill that's paid annually. Well, you don't want to just try to cash flow that in the month that happens. A lot of people can't do that. Sure. So what you do is put $100 aside every month. Every month you can transfer it to savings. You can let it build in checking. It depends on the way you like it. And that way you have that money ready to go. So the, the sinking funds and emergency fund are sort of yin and yang to me of we know this is coming and we don't know what's coming.

But where people get in with sinking funds is they'll have a car with 150,000 miles on it and they'll say, I know this is going to crash someday. And so I want to start a sinking fund now. And I would say in that situation, you need to get an emergency fund because your refrigerator can drop tomorrow.

Yeah.

That fully funded emergency fund is the priority. And if something happens in the meantime where you would've had a sinking fund, it's okay to use some of that if it's a true emergency. But again, if you know you're going to need a new car, let's just save up for that car and not call it an emergency.

But that's a good question. I wonder if we even need to get more sophisticated with classifying sinking funds, one for Like you said, insurance, you know, it's coming every year.

It's basically if you couldn't cash flow this in a given month, then let's create a sinking fund for it.

But you know, it's coming October 15th. You gotta pay your life insurance bill or your car insurance bill for the 6 months or for the year or whatever. That to me is different than a sinking fund for a vacation that's coming in 2 years or 1 year or a, I don't know, whatever further down the road expenses.

Yeah. Not everything has to be, I mean, if it's 10 years away, we don't have to worry about it right now.

Sure.

But you can do the math based on your household income and your margin to decide how much can I put toward this while still hitting all of my other financial goals and staying on the Baby Steps.

And also, man, I know we gotta get to the next call. I wanna double-click on this because you said something that's really important and it's just good for people to remember. Man, I remember these days so much and I mean, I still have 'em now, but not at the same acuity. And what he just mentioned here, It's so frustrating to finally pay off your last credit card and then start saving money, and then immediately something happens and you feel like you just went back and that you're now— you're like he said, I feel broke again. I just want to cheer you on for a second. A, yes, you feel broke again because you're back to zero margin. True. And this is exactly why you saved money so you wouldn't go all the way back.

Yeah.

Imagine if you, Didn't have that.

Right. Have to go knock on the door of a creditor and say, will you, will you save me? Um, so it is super frustrating. The feelings of frustration are right, good. And this is exactly why you save money. Um, because not if, but when things are gonna hit and they always will hit.

And that emergency fund, I call it the Never Go Into Debt Again Insurance Policy. That's really what it is.

It's a pretty dramatic way to—

I like it.

It's a long acronym, but—

It, it doesn't have a ring to it. We're working on the marketing. We'll, we'll come up with a catchier name for it. All right, Laura is in New York City, New York, up next. What's going on, Laura?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Um, I started listening to you guys about 2 weeks ago, so I'm so grateful to be able to have the opportunity to talk to you guys.

Welcome to the cult, Laura.

We're glad you're here.

Thank you. Okay, so a little backstory. I'm 27, my partner's 26. Um, we both separated from active duty in 2023. Um, we've been long distance for a year and a half. And in November, I'll be moving across the country and we're finally moving in together. He will be paying like 70%— 70% to 80% of the bills while I pay off my debt since I am in Baby Step 2. He was able to secure his big boy job right after getting out of the military. And right now, I'm using the GI Bill for flight school. I'm still in the reserves and trying to work part-time to pay off some of my debt. And I guess my question here is, as far as moving in, like I know most callers here are married and already have combined assets and joint accounts. So as far as moving in, like, I want us to budget together. Um, he has no debt, and even if, you know, we keep our money separate, I just want him to get on the right path since he has the advantage and the leverage to do so. But how do you know? I want us to budget together, and I want him to invest for his future, and eventually it'll be our future.

But how do I navigate this as a girlfriend and not a wife without coming off as controlling and overstepping?

Yeah. I mean, you, I cannot recommend enough, and I'm talking to you like you're my sister right now. Okay? Um, yes, y'all are taking this quote unquote next step in your relationship and yet y'all have chosen to do that. All that, that's y'all's decision, but keep your finances separate, your money and his. And if you want to encourage him to, begin thinking about the future and saving money and not borrowing money and following Ramsey principles. The best way you can influence him is by living it out. But what I've— what we see time and time again, I've seen personally time and time again, is people are dating, they move in together, they start splitting everything. And God forbid, and I would never wish this on you, but something goes awry and somebody, they've— people have joined accounts as though they are married and there's no legal protection. protection for you if there's a separation. And what that means is he may have paid off all of your debts and then y'all break up and he's like, hey, I want money back. Or vice versa, you've helped pay rent and you pay out it way, way into his mortgage that his name is on, on the, on the deed.

And you say, well, I want some money back. And there's no legal protection. There's no legal separation protection for you.

Right. So we actually don't plan on combining assets. I mean, combining any money. We don't plan on doing that. I just meant more so like us living together, like, hey, let's have a budget on how much we should be spending with our money separately, how much we should be spending on this. And we're actually going to be renting, so he doesn't own anything yet.

But he has no say. Sure. Well then if it's like we're splitting groceries, then it's kind of going to be a split budget. You guys are still going to do your own budgets, but you're going to then split the food bills that come in. So I wouldn't combine our budget and say, this is our household budget. It's just gonna be, all right, I'm allocating $200 to food. He's allocating $200 to food. So we got $400 to spend overall.

Well, tell me this. My wife has, thank God, over the years, uh, even when she was my girlfriend, was like, like, I'm thinking about when we were in college and we were dating and she was like, hey, here's an idea. You could study for that exam and actually pass it. Uh, I'm not gonna go out with you tonight cuz I'm studying. And I was like, oh, I guess I could study. What is it about the conversation that you don't, that you think he's gonna blow you off, that makes you feel like he's gonna think you're controlling? If you sit down and say, hey, this matters to me. I see—

So actually, as someone with, you know, as someone with debt and someone who made, you know, financial mistakes in my early 20s, I see him as someone who lives so simply, has no debt, that I'm like, wow, you could be maximizing your money. And he makes, he makes over 6 figures. He lives simply and his money's just sitting in savings. So it's not even like— So he doesn't invest anything more for himself?

No, he has.

He told me, well, I brought this up to him. And what he said was, I don't really like the idea of money just coming out of my account without me like seeing it or knowing. I'd rather do it myself.

I totally get that impulse.

So I've been talk—

yeah.

And so I've been slowly talking to him about this, like planting the Dave Ramsey seed, like every, you know, every couple of days. What do you think about this?

We're gonna send you, we're gonna send you both the Financial Peace Digital Course. Okay. And you can, you can tell him, hang on the line here and we'll send you a link to it. You can tell him, I want to watch this together and let Dave, me, George, and others, and Rachel, and those on the videos teach you here's why the principles work over time and in the short term. And here's the peace that you can bring to your future self by doing hard things now. Um, I think that's gonna be the best thing. And tell him, I want to watch this together.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Campbell. John Deloney is next to me. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. James is in Atlanta up next. James, welcome to the show.

Oh, what's up guys? Hey, how y'all doing today?

Doing great.

Thank you for taking my call. I'm a big fan of the show.

Thank you. How can we help?

Yeah, yeah, man. So, uh, well, my question is really how can I get a mortgage? How can my wife and I get a mortgage when we don't have a credit Uh, so a little bit of background. I'm 29. My wife is 27. Um, I left my W-2 job to start a business last year and my wife left her job, uh, to take care of our little one, our little son. And so, you know, we've been going through the process now of trying to get a loan. Um, my income is going to be right at $250,000 this year and our net, our net worth is, you know, a couple hundred grand. And, uh, right now the brokers are telling us, and the mortgage lenders are telling us we can't get a loan because we don't have credit cards and we don't really have any credit score. Uh, so we don't, we don't really have any debt to date. And so I'm trying to, I'm trying to figure out why I'm such a bad candidate for a mortgage when I feel like we're in a great financial position. So I would just love to get some advice.

I love it, man. Well, you guys are crushing it. I'm so proud of you. Just hearing your numbers and your story is so impressive. How long have you been making this kind of money?

It's been probably about the last 2 years, 2 and a half years.

Fantastic.

And just so you know, you're talking to 2 guys who have both got mortgages with indeterminate credit scores.

So you just, you've been barking up the wrong tree, as they say. There are lenders that do this and the ones that don't do it act like you are an alien from a different planet. So they don't know what to do except follow the broken system that they know, which is, can I just put your information in and pop up a credit score to then grant you the loan? So what you're looking for is something called a no-score loan, and it's a process called manual underwriting. Have you heard of that?

I have heard of it. I don't know much about it.

Okay. So what it does instead, you know, back in the day, I'm talking like 1987, they didn't have credit scores. So what you had to do was go to the bank and you had a relationship with that bank, and they looked at all your numbers, your tax returns, your income, all of that, your utility bills. Did, can you pay your bills on time? And they would grant you the loan. So it's a similar process. They, they look for proof of payments. They're gonna look for verification of income. For you being self-employed, it's going to be even more important. So they're going to pull your tax returns. Uh, do you guys rent right now?

Yes, we rent.

Do you have at least 12 months of documented on-time payments for rent?

Absolutely. Great.

Do you have 12-month history of checking and savings statements?

Yeah, for sure.

Do you have proof that you pay your phone bills and utility bills on time? Insurance payments on time?

Of course.

Ta-da!

Do you have a solid down payment?

Yes. Yeah, we have a good down payment.

Ding, ding, ding.

So if you do this on a 15-year fixed rate where the mortgage is no more than a quarter of your take-home pay, how much house can that buy you today or at the time you want to buy this house?

Yeah, I mean, we should be able to get at least, you know, $300,000, $350,000 easy at that rate.

Amazing.

How much do you have saved right now for the house? Just on its own without your emergency fund.

So you're telling me I don't have to rent and take out more credit cards to get this loan?

No, no. If you just— I, I just gave you the actual checklist that they would walk you through if you called up Churchill Mortgage today, which are the people that we've recommended in the space because they specialize in these no-score loans while other lenders and even real estate agents have no clue how to do this, or they just don't.

And James, listen to me. I got a no-score mortgage from Churchill. While sitting in this seat. Okay? It's possible.

Yeah.

Because I've done it.

And it's not cuz John's special, although he is very special. It's just because they, they're willing to go through the work and most lenders just don't want to do it because it is manual. It's not automated through a credit score. So as long as you check those boxes, a lot of people call and say, whoa, I didn't know. Well, yeah, you need on-time rental history. You need proof of income that's stable. You need proof that you've paid other bills on time. But as long as you have that, And you choose a good fixed-rate mortgage with a solid down payment, you're gonna be a great candidate for this.

Great candidate.

I should be able to get $40,000 or $50,000 to put down.

That's awesome, man. Way to go.

Yeah.

So call up Churchill and here's what they'll do. They'll pre-approve you and that will get you through the process to where when you actually wanna go buy that house, it's gonna be so much easier than starting from scratch. So call them up or, uh, jump on churchillmortgage.com and get in touch with them, man. Great question.

Yeah. Good for you.

I'm inspired by him.

Good for you for crushing it in your, uh, personal business, man.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

Way to get punished for just not playing a stupid game of a credit score where you pay off your debt and your score goes down. That makes sense.

Well, I think people are, are on something as big as a home purchase, especially for a first-time home buyer. I think it's a shock to people, not only about the credit score thing, but it's a shock that nobody cares about you. You are a number in an algorithm in a spreadsheet. And if you don't meet— if you meet this number, here you go. If you don't meet— and it's like, no, no, no, I'm a guy. I'm clearly doing a great job. I've got a good marriage. Don't care. What's that number? I'm gonna plug you into a formula. And I don't know, there, there, I, it surprises me still that it's so, it, it's behind the scenes, even though the commercials have smiling people and they're all shaking your hand. Nobody, they don't care. They just want a, a number to plug into a number to plug into a number. And my experience with Churchill, it's, yes, they're a sponsor of the show, but my personal experience is they're real people and they listen to me and they say, hey, I need this form. I need this piece of paper. Let me see this. But they're great.

They work with me. They're humans. They treat me like a human.

So that's right.

So I love it.

And a lot of people think, well, it's going to take me so much more time. It's going to be so much more expensive. And that's a bunch of hoopla because it's not true.

Yeah.

It's really not that much work if you find someone who knows what they're doing.

And who will actually do it and treat you like a human and not a—

Exactly.

Not a number.

The other pushback I find funny is people, they get mad at us because they go, wait, once you get a mortgage, you're going to have a credit score. So what was the point? And I'm going, the point wasn't the goal of a zero credit score. The point was to opt out of a broken financial system where you have to stay in debt and keep all of your credit accounts open to win.

Right. So it's kind of like saying, I'm going to drive the speed limit. Well, that police officer over there just gunned me. Yeah, but that's between him and his— I'm not playing the game. I'm not worried about getting a ticket because I'm You know what I mean? It's like somebody's gonna be scoring you over here. Knock— they can knock their lights out. I'm not gonna— I'm not participating in that.

That's right. And if you follow our plan, you're gonna pay off your mortgage early, and then your credit score will soon disappear once again. So that's what happened to me.

Again.

And now I don't have to think about it. I don't have to download a stupid app to keep up with my credit score, to then get mad and confused as to why it's going up or down. It just doesn't matter. And I still get great insurance rates. People also complain about that, John. They say, wait, without a credit score? You're not gonna be able to get a job. I'm like, no, they're pulling your credit report when you get a job, not your credit score. And that's to make sure that you don't have a bankruptcy or you don't have bad debts, cuz they don't want to take that on. There's, that's a risk for them. So that's what they're looking for. And so all the angles like, well, it's gonna affect all these parts of your life. I'm going, it, it doesn't.

And I would love to have a candidate who's coming to work for me that if I happen to work for a place that pulled credit score, because I'm gonna put you in a, in a, In a job with high responsibility where I need to see if you can manage stuff. And the business decides to pull your credit report as part of their fact-finding on that. And I was to say, hey, you have a zero score. Tell me about that. And the candidate smiled and said, yeah, 10 years ago I decided I don't want anyone to tell me what to do financially. And so I don't owe anybody any money.

Oh yeah.

I would hire that guy on the spot.

That's right. And the last one we get is renting an apartment. And having actually done this multiple times with multiple apartments, some of them corporate complexes, some of them landlords, all they really want to know is, can you pay? Do you actually have the income? And are you a criminal? Outside of that, you might have a slightly higher deposit that you'll get back once you move out. But it was such a nothing burger after everyone told me, you'll never be able to live anywhere without a credit score. You'll rue the day. I'm alive Let's tell the tale, guys.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

If you found value in the conversations we're having today, pass it along. Sharing the show is one of the biggest ways you can help us grow. So hit the like button, the share button, text a link to a friend. You never know who could this, uh, who, who this show could help. We appreciate it. Sarah is in Sacramento up next. Sarah, welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for having me.

Absolutely. How can John and I help?

Um, so my husband and I are on different pages about using our investment that we have in crypto to pay off our mortgage.

Wow.

Now he, he does agree that he would like to use it eventually, but he would like to wait for it because he believes it's going to grow exponentially and it's too volatile for me. Um, and so I would rather pay it off now and have some peace of mind.

And then—

How much does he have in Bitcoin?

Um, enough to pay off our mortgage plus some.

Wow.

So we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars. What did he pay for all that Bitcoin?

Um, that's part of the issue is I don't know exactly what his base price was, but he, you know, the tax hit that we'll get on it. So, um, part of my question today was, um, because I don't know if him and I will get on the same page right now, but if there's any Any strategies with the tax hit that we'll get.

Is that what he's actually worried about?

Well, he's worried about that, and also he believes that it's going to keep growing, and so he'd rather wait for it to grow more so he has to sell off less.

Then why would you ever sell it if it's going to grow indefinitely?

Because that means your tax bill is going to grow too.

I know.

I understand and I agree.

Here's the— so what is your main goal here? Is your main goal to pay your house off or is your main goal to get out of it? That's your main goal?

Well, my— yeah, that's what I thought this was for, is to like, if we were successful at paying our house off with this investment, that would meet Like that would be sufficient for me.

Okay. So I think that's the place to start because the Bitcoin is the proxy war here. It's the third rail.

And it's—

What do you mean?

It's not really about the Bitcoin. It's not really about the tax strategy.

He has a thing that's not yours that he's not including you on that was y'all's and now it's become his. And the thing beneath the thing is I want to, I want to not have a mortgage. I want to feel safety and security in my home. So if you need to keep this precious thing, and by the way, I own zero Bitcoin, not one shred. And do I wish I could go back in time and buy a whole bunch at nothing? Of course I do. And I also didn't get into Beanie Babies and NFTs and all these other things. You throw enough darts backwards, one's going to hit great, and it could go up 5 trillion% and it could go to zero. Because it's always gonna have to be traded for actual money at some point.

Right?

But that's neither here nor there. I, I have crypto friends, I've got Bitcoin friends, and dude, there is, there's just the, that conversation is just a, a, a ship that sailed. The real conversation in your home is, I want the peace and security of having a paid-off home. If you don't want to use this, A, we need to talk about our shared vision for what retirement looks like and our shared vision for the future. But I want us to come up with a plan right now for how we're going to pay off the mortgage in 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, et cetera. Because that's going to force you both to the table and say, okay, we're going to take separate jobs. We're going to take extra jobs. We're going to have to not go on vacations, whatever. What, how much sacrifice is he willing to make to hold onto this precious Bitcoin thing?

Right?

So at the current rate, if you didn't sell any Bitcoin, how quickly are you guys going to pay off the house?

Oh, a long time.

So are you even making extra payments on the principal right now?

No.

And why is that? Is there no margin?

Um, we're paying off some other— we're paying off, um, a car.

Oh, okay. Um, you got other consumer debt?

Yeah.

So we have a little, not much. We have like $20,000.

Um, That's a lot to a little guy like me, but you guys are rolling.

Okay.

So $20,000 on the car. Any other debt?

Um, no.

Okay.

Do you have an emergency fund?

Um, we have about $5,000 in the bank. Otherwise everything else is wrapped up in crypto.

Like no retirement?

Gosh. No. Um, his is, his is in there. Mine is a pension.

Okay.

Let's use real numbers here. How much do you have in crypto?

We're not going to come steal it. I promise. I wouldn't know how.

Um, like today's value might be $600.

How much of your net worth is in crypto?

All of it.

Oh, sister.

I'm scared for you.

Yeah, dude.

I know, exactly.

This man is addicted to this. This is greed at this point.

Sell off, sell off a piece of it to clear everything.

If this was a single stock in a company, wouldn't it worry you?

Yeah.

And companies actually produce something like revenue and products and services and stuff. That's the scary part. I'm not anti-crypto. I'm not anti-Bitcoin, but it leads to situations like this, which then makes me anti-Bitcoin because people get so much tunnel vision. They put all of their eggs in that basket going, you're an idiot if you don't believe in this, like it's Santa Claus or something. And so you guys need to have a whole different conversation. This is not about paying off the house. This is about legitimate safety and security and diversification.

Yeah.

You're incredibly vulnerable.

I mean, Bitcoin went down like 50% in the last 12 months. It took a huge nosedive and it's recovered a little bit, but that's frightening to have half your net worth disappear because a bunch of dudes decided, I'm a little spooked.

I know.

Yeah, exactly my point.

So have you had the conversation, I don't feel safe in this house?

Um, he knows that it, that it's too volatile for me to stomach.

No, no, no, that's not what I said. Have you looked at your husband across the table and said, I'm scared for my safety, I don't feel safe in this relationship because we are 100% leveraged on a very speculative thing?

No.

Okay, let's don't— let's clear as kind, let's sit down and say, I'm, I'm scared. And I want you to hear me say you're choosing to have a scared wife, um, over this, this speculative thing you got.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

And that's like, I, I need you to own that as my husband.

Mm-hmm.

And as a, as a husband, if my wife comes and says she's scared about anything, that it stopped the presses for me. Even if I don't agree with it, if there's no boogeyman outside, if she says, I'm scared about what's outside, you better believe I'm getting a flashlight and I'm going outside.

Right?

Yeah. But don't, don't, don't tell yourself, well, he already knows, or he thinks— be very clear. Because you got $600 grand. I mean, how much would clear your mortgage?

$400,000.

$400,000.

Plus your $20K car loan. Plus let's fill the emergency fund. And so how much would we have to sell to make this happen? 500 of the 6?

Well, with capital gains, you'd probably have to get rid of all of it.

And he's unwilling to do that. I don't think he's gonna do any of this. I think he's made up his mind.

That's tough.

He—

yeah, for right now he has.

And that, that— but here, here's the thing, Sarah, that's not gonna change because if he makes more He's gonna say, see, I told you so, we have more. And also it's gonna be a bigger tax hit, so let's just leave it alone. So let's just leave it alone. And then what?

And then if it goes down 50% again, it's gonna be like, well, we gotta ride it out.

You can't retire off of this because you don't know what's gonna happen with it. And he refuses to sell any of it.

Is he still buying more?

No.

Okay.

No.

What's your household income?

Um, take-home is $170,000 a year.

Fantastic. Do you guys have kids?

Yeah, we have 3.

And you're both working full-time?

Correct.

Okay.

Yeah, I hate this for you because you'll have a get-out-of-jail-free card. You'll have one.

Yeah, this is some golden handcuffs if I've ever seen them.

Yeah, it's just—

You were so close to security and safety that it just boggles my mind. But again, I, I think there is a level of selfishness and greed that comes along with anything. this speculative, anything that's done this well in a short period of time, that I don't know that a conversation is going to convince him. You might need a third party. You might need to go to some counseling to get to the bottom of it. But this conversation is not about Bitcoin.

Well, that's what I say. Like, if it's about I'm— I need safety and security and you're withholding that from me and he says, I don't care, that's the— that's the foundational problem.

That's the smoking gun.

Listen, your home is your most expensive asset, and now you're ready to sell fast and for a lot of money. But in this wackadoodle real estate market, one mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. This ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner, someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well, and negotiate the best deal. That's where a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent comes in. To find one near you, go to ramseysolutions.com/agent. That's ramseysolutions.com/agent.

Everyone needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck and agents who know their stuff. But Ramsey Trusted Insurance Pros are vetted and coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interests at heart. So go to ramseysolutions.com/coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey Trusted agent. Alonzo is in Chicago up next. What's going on, Alonzo?

Top of the afternoon, you guys. How you doing?

We're doing great.

What's up, man?

Uh, okay. Um, I was reaching out because I'm currently a college student. I'm 19 years old, and, uh, my first year of college I decided I wanted to start a business, and I started selling cologne and perfume. I made enough money for me to Uh, well, I made enough money thinking I could buy a new car, which is what I did. Unfortunately, I fell into that. I succumbed to that, oh, I deserve it. Um, I heard you mention in the previous video, like, you know, like, just keep grinding. And, uh, I bought a new car. Right now, the car payment is about $759 per month.

Yeah.

The insurance is $180. Um, and then, uh, my phone bill. So my every month expense is $1,011. I'm currently in the space where I'm trying to figure out whether I should continuously pay this or voluntarily give the car up. I did complete Baby Step 1. I use the car every day for DoorDash and landscaping, and I also still do my perfume business here in college, but it's causing a lot of stress.

Yeah.

Because I have that feeling where I have to work every single day on top of school. I'm a full-time, you know, college student. So like, it's kind of— it's a little bit stressful and I'm trying to figure out whether I should continue down this road or pivot now and, you know, pursue something else. Yeah.

So dude, A, I'm so glad you're recognizing this at 19. I didn't recognize this till I was way older than you. So you're, you're ahead of the game just knowing like, oh, I don't ever want to be in this situation again. And, uh, stress is real, man. I've, I've made dumb car purchases too, so I'm right here with you. Um, what's the car worth?

Um, I took it to a dealership. Uh, they overcharged me about $5,000 on the car because I was young and moving fast. So he said, uh, I'm about $5,000 in negative equity. He said they were willing to give me about $20,000 for the car.

Is this the same dealership you bought it from?

No, this was, uh, uh, same, uh, Honda but not the same dealership though.

So if you're— if a dealer is telling you you're $5,000 under, my guess is you could walk— you could sell it on Facebook Marketplace and basically walk away even.

Because have you looked up the private party value? Because the dealerships are going to lowball you every time because they got to make their profit.

So if you go to Kelley Blue Book and look at personal sale And you're a hustler. You know how to, you know how to sell, dude. That's what you do for a living. So you're good at this. I can almost guarantee you, if they're, if they're just telling you you're 5 under, you can get real close, if not even Steven. Get somebody to buy this car from you, take it off your hands. You take care of it. I know you do. And you can walk away, man.

Okay. So you said Kelley Blue Book. I haven't heard of that.

kbb.com. It's, it's, it's basically the, the The one publication that everyone goes to for the price of a used car, a new car. And it's got, it's got a little meter on it that says like, what kind of condition is the car in? And it has a dealer trade-in value, a dealer for sale value, but also has a private sale value.

And that's the one you want, 'cause you're gonna get more for it, but it's also more hassle 'cause you gotta sell it yourself instead of just dropping it off at the dealership. But your best way out of this is not a repo, whether it's voluntary or involuntary. 'Cause here's what happens, Alonzo. They're not just gonna get you out of the loan. You're gonna be on the hook for the difference. It's called a deficiency balance. They're gonna go sell that car at auction for $10,000, and you're still gonna be on the hook for the other $10,000. So it doesn't actually solve your problems. What would solve it is coming up with the difference. So whether that's your savings or even a personal loan from a credit union, if you can come up with the difference to clear the title and get rid of that car, that'll free up that payment, the insurance, and get you breathing again.

And if you listen to the show very much or seen our videos, you know that we are like, one of our main reasons for existing is helping people get outta debt. But I'm okay if you go down to a local credit union and show them how hard you're working, all this. And let's say you are able to find a buyer for $24,000 and you owe $25,000 for getting a small loan for $1,000, the difference plus $3,000. So you can buy yourself, dude, just an embarrassing sophomore in college car to get you to and from And always worried it's gonna break down on you. And now you've got $4,000 to pay off and you can hustle up some business because you, you don't mind grinding. You, you can do that and be out of this thing in no time.

Could you get by without a car for now?

Uh, definitely. I, um—

Oh cool, that's even better.

I definitely can. I do use it, like, I don't really use it for personal—

You're using it to make money. To pay the payment.

Exactly.

Which is insane as it sounds, right? Who's the lender? Who do you owe the loan to?

So I owe the loan to executor.

Okay.

Now I want to ask a question because, uh, I know you said to sell it. So I put about 22,000 miles on it. It's— and I just got glass.

That's great. That's nothing.

Okay.

That's—

I mean, that's basically a new car. That's great, man. And it's a Honda, you said?

It's a Honda. I made sure to get, um, you know, oil change and everything. Oh man.

Yeah. Dude, Honda with 22,000 miles is a brand new Honda. That car's going to last somebody for a decade.

Great resale value on those cars.

Great resale value.

So you got this, man. You got the work ethic. Please don't let it repo. Keep making the payments, keep up with the payments no matter what it takes. But the goal is come up with the difference that's owed and then you can sell this thing outright.

Go to kbb.com. And Alonzo, can we make a commitment together?

Yes, definitely.

Like, I hear promise in you, okay? I don't know a lot of 19-year-olds that are going to school full-time and also working multiple side hustles. And the stress you feel opening your eyes before you feed yourself, before you clothe yourself, you owe the world $1,000+ a month, right? That's a— that's stress. Let's make a commitment now You're too valuable to the world that my kids are inheriting, okay? I need guys like you out there grinding, pushing, and changing the world for the better. Make a commitment now. I will never be owned by somebody else again. I'm never going to borrow money again.

I would never be on— I'm writing this down, by the way— but I would never, ever, ever in this world be owned by somebody else.

There you go.

Because essentially, like you said, it's not about The money is about the time.

That's it. And the peace, man. You're 19, and I know this isn't cool to say, I want you to enjoy college too, right?

Exactly right.

I want you to be able to go on a date and not be having to work 7 jobs to pay for the car that just gets you more jobs, right?

Exactly.

Yeah, get on KBB, just get that thing sold, man. And if you have to borrow a tiny amount of money from a local credit union to, uh, to cover the, the difference between what you owe and what they're going to pay you, great. And get that thing paid off ASAP, and, and you be in the control of your life for the rest of your life. It's good. It's an honor to talk to you, brother.

I appreciate you guys muchly, and please keep doing what you guys are doing, and I'll be probably listening to the show later on today.

That's awesome. I love it.

Can I also ask, who's buying perfume? I'm just most impressed that you're able to sell perfume and cologne in 2026, man to man.

Dude, he's on a college campus. Those guys smell terrible. They don't bathe.

Best place on earth. I came down here and struck a gold mine.

Yes!

It's about how you pitch it to the people.

Do you buy it wholesale and then it's just sitting in the trunk of your car?

Or do you make it in your bathtub?

No, you know what's so crazy? I have a strategic method of marketing. So I have like a bandana. It looks like an army of bullets, but it's not. People get confused all the time. And they be like, bro, what is that on your chest? And that's how I get them most of the times. I walk around with like a—

Oh, you got like a visual cue that gets them talking, and now you got a conversation starter.

Exactly, dude. Exactly.

You're gonna crush in sales, Alonzo. I don't know what you're in school for, but you may want to just drop out and go full-time sales, man.

You got it. And yeah, George, few places where you're gonna find more people in one area that don't bathe regularly than— yeah, in a, in a dude's dorm desperately looking for a date. Yes.

And now Alonzo's smelling good over here. They're going, what are you wearing, dude?

Exactly. Well, and they're ready to move away from Ax body spray or whatever to Cologne. That's what's up.

What's your favorite, Alonzo? Before we go, give us your best cologne right now. What's the one that's in?

The best cologne is Kenneth Cole Black. All right, never go wrong.

Listen, that's from a cool guy, John, so now I know what to go buy.

Here's what's so funny. I can almost guarantee between breaks George is going to be online buying Kenneth Cole.

Your boy's going to be Googling. I might buy from Alonzo at this point.

I feel like he deserves the sale.

Way to go, man. You got this. Call us back if you need anything else.

Thank you.

People ask me all the time, George, what's your number one money-saving hack? I'm glad you asked. Nothing makes me happier than helping another frugal friend. So here's the hack. Get on a budget. Seriously, how are you supposed to save money if you don't know how much you're spending in the first place? And that's what makes the EveryDollar budgeting app a game changer. With EveryDollar, you'll get a clear picture of your spending, and from there, it's easy to see where you can get more intentional, cut back, and save more money. How much money are we talking? Well, the average EveryDollar budgeter frees up $395 in their very first budget. And if you ask me, I think you're way above average. So why are you still listening to me? Go download EveryDollar for free and start saving more money right now. Our scripture and quote of the day, we've got Ecclesiastes 5:4-5. When you make a vow to God, do not delay to fulfill it. He has no pleasure in fools. Fulfill your vow. It is better to not make a vow than to make one and not fulfill it. Mark Twain said, never argue with stupid people.

They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

That's awesome.

That's a good one. Grace is in Detroit up next. Grace, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi, thank you for having me.

What's up?

So my fiancé and I have been engaged for 4 years and we have 2 children and we are trying to navigate through paying off our individual debts and keeping things separate until we're married. Um, while also trying to handle medical expenses for one of our children and saving for a wedding. Um, so I'm looking for some advice on how we can work through the current debt and our financial responsibilities while also paying for a debt-free future when we also have some financial distrust involved in our relationship.

Holy moly.

That's a lot going on. Tell me about the financial distrust.

Yeah, so about 3 years ago, I discovered that my fiancé had accumulated almost $20,000 of debt from a period of time that he was off of work. The field that he's in sometimes has influxes, and thankfully he's moved on from that job, but that really caused like a huge amount of distrust in our relationship when it comes to the financial security of our future.

Sure.

So we spent a lot of time working through that, almost 2 years actually, where we got to a point where, you know, Bills were being paid on time. We felt like we were establishing a savings again. I got a little lax in some of the accountability on the financial side, and then I actually found out about 6 months ago that he had gotten into gambling, and some of those debt payments on his side had kind of gone to the side because he had started gambling with the extra money that he had. So we're kind of facing just this additional lack of trust that I thought we had resolved. And I'm thankful that there's transparency now, but it doesn't necessarily take away the hurt that comes from that distrust that happened again.

So the words I use here, Grace, I'll own them, is financial infidelity.

Okay.

He's cheated on you twice.

Yeah.

And this time it wasn't just Scrambling to cover debts and to pay for dinners with credit cards. This time he went a professional route.

Right. All right.

And so I don't want you to gloss over, like, it shakes the foundation of your relationship.

Yeah, 100%.

All right.

And so getting on the same page with money here, that to me is, uh, like, if you're looking at a picture of an iceberg floating in the water, that's above water. Below water, you have to ask yourself about, are you with somebody? Have you created humans with somebody that simply is more interested in doing what they want to do when they want to do it, or dealing with their own demons and not interested in building a life with you? Because it sounds like even the words you use, like, I got lax in my accountability. You're not his mom. You're his fiancée.

Yeah.

Right. And he's his not making bad decisions is not your fault because you weren't checking every, every, you know, every balance statement and every, you know what I mean? Like you have to have somebody you can anchor into.

Yeah.

And so, I mean, I'm worried about, tell me about being engaged for 4 years.

Yeah.

So, um, that actually is one of the biggest reasons, uh, that the engagement has lasted so long. Um, so I found out about the debt, about a year and a half after we got engaged initially. And that was just like way too big of a setback for me to be like, yes, let's move forward, let's continue planning. At that point, you know, we hadn't even gotten to the point of selecting a venue or any of the vendors for a wedding. So that was like our biggest setback. And the other thing that really contributes to that is one of our kids has a pretty complex medical diagnosis.

Mm-hmm.

And so just the, you know, emotional side of that, a lot of our time and attention has gone towards you know, our child's care. So it's kind of just been put on the back burner, which I hate to say, but, you know, the wedding and getting married, like, for us, it was just like, how do you come up with enough money or planning or, you know, emotional capacity to even think about getting married when you have so many other things that you're also trying to juggle?

Yeah.

And then obviously the distrust added on to that.

So there's— I mean, you're talking about marriage as though it is the party. As though it is a celebration.

Yeah.

Right.

And that's different than, I want legal protection for me and my children.

Mm-hmm.

And if you say you're in to the point that we've made multiple kids, then let's go down to the courthouse. We'll, we'll have a party later. We can't afford a party right now. Great. That, that, that's— Jillions of couples take that route. That's all good. Or we're gonna have a tiny little, uh, ceremony with some friends. I've married somebody in my yard.

Right?

Like, yeah, you can do it. The man, I don't wanna pile up on this guy cuz he's not on the phone. I don't like talking about people when they're on the phone, but, but how dare you take borrowed money and go gambling with it when you have a special needs kid that you're struggling to pay for? How dare you? What kind of dad does that?

Right.

Right. And if, if, if, if you're my daughter, if you're my sister, I would tell you to run from this guy. And I know that's hard. That's, that's easier said than done cuz you got kids with him. You got, But how dare you do that? Forget him not honoring his fiancée. You have a special needs kid. What are you doing?

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I do.

And I think that's where a lot of my anger around it comes from is not necessarily the betrayal to me, which obviously hurts, but it's like I've, as a mom, always worked to protect my kids. And one of my kids is actually from a prior relationship. You know, when I was young. And, um, so it almost hurts more also because like that was a position he chose to step into. Like he chose to step into a parent position before we even had our child together. Um, so it almost feels like kind of a double slap in the face.

Totally. But, but, but also, man, you and I could talk for 2 hours on this. Here's the thing. I don't think your challenge right now is getting on the same page financially.

Okay.

The challenge for you is, do I want, do I want to continue to pursue a long-term relationship with somebody that is willing to, Lie to my face, put me and my special needs kids at risk, and, um, who is then gonna take that and add to it the potential for addiction that George and I see are destroying men's lives and families all over this country in real time.

Yeah.

Like, so it's not, we're, we're not at the, hey, how do we budget together? We're at the, you have to do some soul searching and say, I'm gonna call this thing. Or here is the 100% ironclad path for you to regain trust with me and for what this is going to look like going forward. And I can't be your mom and I'm not going to be your accountant. I'm going to be your partner in this thing. Otherwise, otherwise, you know what I mean? It's never going to work out that way.

Yeah.

Where is he at with the gambling addiction?

Yeah. So after he had come clean about it, Because actually he came to me and said like, hey, this is weighing on me really heavy, which was a really big step for him. Um, he— we together sat down and ended up blocking him from like all of the sites. There's the way you can go in where if you re-enable it, you have to wait a year before you start depositing money. So it was all like online gambling.

Has he gone to Gamblers Anonymous?

Is he seeking treatment?

So that is something that he's working on. There's a service that his employer offers that he's doing for that. So yeah, he got to a point where, you know, he admitted that it was a problem. He recognizes that's an— it's an addiction. Um, but I, I, yeah, it's like the step after that I think I'm struggling with because, you know, I very much am the type of person that doesn't want to stay in a relationship that's very unhealthy for me, that could impact, you know, my financial security in the future. Um, but I also—

You say that, you say that, and I say this with all love of my heart, you say that as a declaration, but you've done it for 5 years.

Right.

Yeah, I hear you.

And so you're the one that has to look in the mirror and say, what am I worth? What's the safety of my kids worth? And what's the path to that worth?

Yeah.

And then if you want to, if this guy's all about— dude, I wouldn't do this job if I didn't believe in redemption. I wouldn't. Right. I believe I've sat with people who've changed everything and it's why I do this job. But man, oh man, oh man.

Yeah.

You're in a vulnerable, vulnerable spot, and you know that. You wouldn't be calling.

Um, right now it's keeping the finances separate. You attack your debts, make sure all the bills are paid, make sure the kids are okay, and make sure, I mean, to the best of your ability, that he's, he's doing what he says he's doing.

Right.

That's all you can do right now until you guys get to the point where you can tackle finances and goals and life together.

And continue to give him a clear path about what earning trust That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.