Transcript of Financial Stability Starts With Changing How You Think About Money New

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show. And I'm Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with best-selling author and my good friend, Dr. John Delony. And so we'll be taking your calls about life and money. So give us a call. The lines are open at 888-825-5225. And if you can't get through, 'cause usually they're all booked up, keep calling, keep trying. You can even leave a voicemail, but we wanna get to your questions. All right, so let's head off to Denver, Colorado. Starting us off this hour is Kevin. Hi Kevin, welcome to the show.

Hello, hello, hello. Um, uh, I, I just have a few questions. Um, you see, I am, um, I'm in the Army and, um, I moved here, here recently. I am married, I'm 20 years old. And I have my own house back where I moved from, and I am expecting— my wife is pregnant.

Oh wow.

And she had to stop working. And see, before the Army, we had an income of around— we brought home around $10,000 a month. And I guess we got kind of used to that. I have a newer vehicle. And, um, and you see, now, now that she's pregnant, she actually stopped working. And, um, we have to pay rent here in Denver and, um, well, close to Denver. And then we also have to pay our mortgage and then the vehicle payments.

Okay.

So right now I'm actually losing about $1,000 a month consistently. Every single month.

Okay.

And I gotta, I gotta figure out a plan. We do have a little bit of money in the bank, but I don't quite know what my first step should be.

Are you, uh, are you currently on base somewhere?

Yes, I am. You are?

Okay. How much is rent? Do they charge? I mean, uh, well, it depends.

They do, they do. It's a, it's, um, $2,000 even a month for base rent. For rent. Yep. Yep. For base rent. It comes out of my paycheck.

What's your housing stipend?

It's, uh, they give me $2,200 and I believe $75 and they take $2,000 out for rent.

Can you just use that for your mortgage?

I can, but then that won't, I won't, I can't, I have to find somewhere else to live here. And I can't go into the barracks because I can either live in the barracks or I can get BAH, which is the money for housing. Yeah, so I can't pay for both places.

I missed it. Where's your house that you own?

Tennessee.

Okay, you got to put that on the market today because you're broke. Well, you don't have anything. There's no well to it, brother. You can't afford it. Um, you got to sell your cars.

You see, well, we have, we have 3 vehicles. We have 2 paid-off vehicles and one, um, that's not paid off. It's a, uh, 2021. I, I owe $30,000 on it.

What's it worth?

We have—

what's it worth?

It, it, it Kelly Blue Books for $40,000.

Then sell it. Sell today, right?

And then you pocket $10,000. And are the other 2 cars drivable?

Yes. The other two cars are drivable. This is a little bit older.

That's fine. Doesn't matter. Yeah. So that, and then Kevin, for the home, let's just pretend John's world is reality. 'Cause I think it is what he just painted you was this of selling the house. How much, how much would you guys walk away with because of equity in the home in Tennessee? If you were to sell it today versus what you owe, what would you walk away with?

Well, I built the home myself when I was, uh, 18. I started it at 18. It's a barndominium. And the living quarters was done and all of that, but it's not fully finished. And that's, that's why selling it might not be a good move, because if I did sell it, I don't— I'm not even sure if I can get what I owe out of it because it's not fully finished.

Because it's not finished.

Oh, $212,000.

When are you going to finish on my—

well, um, I was hoping to take leave in here in the next few months and go home and finish it, but that leaves me with I have right now $30,000 in the bank. Um, I also have a motorcycle that, um, is paid for and it, it, it's worth around $10,000 as well. So I could probably, if I theoretically, if I sold that, I might be able to come up with $45,000 or $50,000.

Okay. So my, okay. Yeah. So if you sell the car, you get $10,000 from that, sell the motorcycle, $10,000. Um, you have $30,000 in the bank.

Yes.

That puts at $50,000. Do you have any other consumer debt, Kevin? Any, uh, student loans, credit card debt, personal loans, anything?

I do not know. Okay, just my mortgage.

And you guys are $1,000 in the hole every month is what you're telling me with this mortgage?

Yes.

Okay, and why did your wife— why did she stop working? Was she like severely ill from the pregnancy?

Well, that originally, yes, but then we actually moved from— well, she— I, I She moved from Tennessee to here in, in Colorado. And, um, when is she due? Of course she had to stop her job. She is due in September.

Okay. I mean, it sounds harsh, Kevin, but I mean, I, I worked up into 38 weeks, and if she's, if she's medically able to versus like on bed rest or something from like a medical perspective, she needs to be working. She needs to be at a coffee shop. She needs to be at— I don't, I don't care where it is because you guys need $1,000 a month and she could bring that. She could bring that for the foreseeable future until she has the baby. And then in September, you guys gotta look up and say, okay, we gotta figure out how we're gonna get $1,000. 'Cause you can't stay in this and you can't keep grabbing from your $50,000. If you do that, it's obviously eventually gonna be, yeah, it's gonna be gone.

When do you, what's your mortgage payment every month?

It is $1,500 even.

Okay, I, I'm just telling you what I would do if I was in your seat.

Money's just getting thrown.

There's no— yeah, brother, you like— you're in a very solvable problem. The challenge before you is— and I'm gonna use this word to be provocative, okay— but you have a fantasy about your life, and it feels good to have always have this place in Tennessee that one day I'm going to dot, dot, dot, and then one day after that I'm going to dot, dot, dot. What I want to do is bring you out of that picture you've painted for yourself down the road into your current situation right now. You happen to be sitting on a couple of lottery tickets, a $10,000 one that you sell a motorcycle, a $10,000 when you sell a car, and you got a new baby coming and you live on base. And like, if I would take $20,000 and pay somebody in Tennessee to come finish this place out and put on the market and pocket Mm-hmm. $200,000 in equity.

It's a, it's a great point, Kevin, to listen to John in that because the 18-year-old, that was 2 years ago before you were married in the Army with a kid and a baby on the way.

Yeah, it's a different life.

Your life has changed, Kevin. And the sooner you can reach that reality, the more stability you're gonna create financially in your family. But as you continue to hold onto this 18-year-old and the dream that he had, you're going to continue to feel this force, this tug of pull in your heart when it comes to your finances. And it's not worth it. And you can always go and do something great. It's not like you can never have a barn in any other place.

Well, let me just tell you, dude, I've got a place on some land in Tennessee and actually it's being worked on right now. Rachel Cruz's husband is working on it. Like he's the GC. He's the GC on it. And it's awesome. And it took me 20 years later than I thought it was going to. And let me tell you, it's awesome. And the best part, it's mine and nobody can take it from me.

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it, and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids," and I immediately went and got term life insurance.

That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me— and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

Me too.

They don't know what to do next.

Me too. I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here, and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly—

these are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family.

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Up next in Indianapolis, we have Grant on the line. Hi Grant, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

So, uh, recently I have gone to a bit of debt because of online blackjack, and I was curious what's the best way to go about a mindset shift and the best way to attack this debt.

It's a lot. That's a, that's a growing, um, yeah, a growing thing that we're seeing is online gambling, whether it's sports or not. How much, how much debt is it?

Uh, it's around $13,000 in credit cards. I also owe $5,000 on a car and $2,000 in a personal loan.

Okay.

Uh, are you married?

I am not. I am single.

Okay.

How old are you, brother?

I am 23.

Okay. Um, I, I don't think a mindset shift is going to help you here. Um, and I'm going to tell you, like, I'm biased, okay? I'm just watching online gambling destroy a generation of men, especially young men. And when I say destroy, I'm not saying that, um, I'm not saying that flippantly. It's melting people. And so I— it used to have to go to Vegas to gamble. You used to have to— it's like you can just get cocaine in your pocket now, right? And so I would, at 23, if you were my friend, if you were my son, um, I would tell you to go see— go to Gamblers Anonymous, go to a meeting and start treating this as seriously as I think you should.

Yeah, no, definitely have had a lot of family and friends be there for me, but they, they're not experts. They, yeah, they keep telling me the same thing.

Yeah. And if those closest to you love you enough to say, hey, you need to go see somebody, or you need to go get a handle on this thing, then let them love you in that way. And, um, we could spend a whole, a whole 1-hour show, whole 3-hour show on the ins and outs of addiction. Just know this, um, I, I like when I'm watching the fights with my buddies, I like, I'll put $5 on this guy, I like that, it's fun. And when Rachel and I go to Vegas, like, I like to go to blackjack tables and stuff like that. I intentionally don't have it on my phone because the folks who make those apps, they're better than me, they just are. And they know how to hook you, they're designed to keep you on them, they're designed to incentivize you to never put them down. And now with prop bets, man, you know this, it never ends.

Yeah, right.

So all I have to say is, until I lost it all. Yeah.

And you're, you're up—

just knowing you're up against a machine that is designed to eat your soul. And when you, when you recognize that, I mean, that's one of the 12 steps. I'm powerless, right? I can't, I can't defeat you, so I can't go to this bar anymore. The problem is the bar's in your pocket now. And so deleting all the apps today getting this debt squared up, and then going to a Gamblers Anonymous meetings and make it a regular part of your life for a season. It won't be forever, but make it a regular part of your, of your life for a season and begin to answer the question, what am I trying to distract myself from, right? Why am I not okay in my own skin? And the pathway through that is honesty and openness in front of other people. And there's no hack around that, right?

Right, Grant.

How much, um, sorry, from the just the financial side, I'm curious, how much do you make a year?

Uh, I make $68,000. I'm an accountant.

Okay. Um, and you have $5,000 on your car. Is the personal loan— was that— did you take that out and use for gambling too, or is that for something else in life?

That was to help me pay my rent this month because it got that bad.

Okay, gotcha.

Yep.

So I'm wondering from the financial aspect, and John obviously can talk, um, so much about that, that addiction side, which actually I kind of want to loop back to in a little bit, John. But, um, but for you, Grant, what it would look like to get a handle and some quick wins financially in the, in the positive realm, because it's been such a negative connotation with your money, with all this debt and the stress that this whole gambling world has caused, that I'm wondering some quick wins for you financially and how that's going to, I think, give you some confidence of moving at least in the right direction, right? Some of that action, because it is, you have to change obviously and be aware and all that with the addiction side. But I also think like, right, some positive movements going forward. So I think, getting on a detailed budget, and I think cutting some things out lifestyle-wise just to get some margin this month, 'cause to pay your rent, right? Just to get your head above water, I think is gonna be really good. And then start paying off some of this debt, and maybe you're working extra, you're working weekends, you're working nights, but you're really shifting your energy towards the positive side of finances, which is actually gonna look more sacrificial.

The positive brings the sacrifice, but I want that for you. I want you to get ahead of this from the financial aspect, you know, as you kind of tackle the, the, that emotional side of it, John, because we see this, Grant, you're not alone. The, the growing from like the sports betting to the gambling, I mean, all of it, it has grown so much 'cause of online. And what, like, I know there's probably not one source, but what would you say for people listening, John, that is, are just like Grant's, like what is that thing? Is it that, yeah, you're just not comfortable in your own skin, you're having to find excitement somewhere else, it's going sideways. Like what's the—

I, I think it's a, And Grant, jump in here if any of this doesn't sound honest, okay? Or doesn't sound right to you. But Rachel, I think we're at this weird apex of humanity, if you will, where we don't have to solve for basic things anymore. And there's a sense of aliveness that has left all of our bodies, right? I hear this a lot with married couples who would classify themselves not in a great, but in a fine or, or good marriage, and somebody has an affair. And what they always come back is, I felt alive again, I felt 22 again. And so instead of doing the hard work of asking yourself, what makes me feel alive in my day in and day out— and by the way, none of us are going to feel alive 24/7, 365— but, um, we have a culture where we just— like, Grant graduated from college, got his first accounting job, goes to work, comes home, goes to work, comes home. And you begin to just get that— your life gets gray. And then all of a sudden there's like a—

there's a hit over here.

That's right. You have this excitement. And then so you— this, this crossroads here of all of us are dead in our own skin, and then you throw into, well, I'll solve it, right? We don't— we have an allergy to boredom, we have an allergy to routine. And then now we got these magic wands in our pocket, man, that can take us on any ride— pornography, um, dating, uh, swipe rights to online gambling. And it's just it's destroying us, right? Does that ring a bell, Grant?

No, that sounds 100%. I mean, it— I would say it started out with, uh, kind of what you were saying earlier. I like to throw $5 on the fights. Yeah, just something I like to do. And then got my first job, and then we just wrapped up the busy season, obviously with tax season wrapping up. And it was just go to work 10 hours, come home.

Yeah, yeah.

And then eat food, go to bed.

Yeah, and you get on that repeat cycle.

Yeah, yeah.

You're one, one of the, one of the paths out for you— and by the way, this is a nightmare, I'm not saying it's gonna be easy— is I want you to start being intentional about making some friends, some real. And I'm in my 40s and I've had to go do this as a, as a discipline. Um, I'm gonna go put myself in situations where I'm gonna be with other people in the real world doing real life things. And not sitting around singing Kumbaya in a coffee shop. That's what I'm talking about. But like something silly, like I'm going to join a bowling league or I'm going to go do Toastmasters or I'm going to start a Saturday lawn business with a, with a kind of a friend and we're going to become friends. But you got to put yourself— I'm going to join a softball league. I'm going to go to comedy club. Like I'm going to do something where I have to rub shoulders and do a thing with other people because the days for you as a 23-year-old, Your whole life has been curated from the time you're in kindergarten to middle school to high school.

And then in college you were with the people in your own major.

Yeah.

And then you graduate, man, you walk across that stage and now it's you versus everybody for the rest of your life. And friend, you can just go home to your one-bedroom apartment and man, life gets—

The isolation can be real.

Real isolated real fast. That's right, man. So man, well, Grant, hey, we're gonna Hank, we're gonna hook you up with the EveryDollar app and it's a budgeting tool. I think it's the best one out there. but it's a tool that you can use to get a handle on your money on, on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, a monthly basis and beyond. Um, and then yeah, be, be, be real brave today and make a call and go to a meeting this evening and then get up early tomorrow and go to another meeting in the morning. And today's day one, brother.

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Are you sick and tired of working so hard but having nothing to show for it? Well, that is normal. And you guys, normal sucks, you know? Being normal in America today with your money, it's broke. It's paycheck to paycheck, and we don't want that for you because you don't have to live that way. And our EveryDollar budget app helps you find extra money every single month and build you a personal plan to beat debt and build wealth. And in just 15 minutes through some of the questions, kind of investigating your life, if you will, you can find thousands of hidden, in hidden margin. So you'll feel like you got a raise. We are here to help expose not only your financial habits, but also places that you can save money so that you can find margins so that you can get out of the paycheck to paycheck cycle. So don't live normal when you can live like no one else. So start EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Elizabeth in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi, Elizabeth, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you?

Hi, we're doing good. How can we help today?

So I recently got married and, um, we actually found out that we are expecting a baby at the end of December.

Oh, congratulations, Christmas baby!

But it's thrown a big wrench in things because we were on this debt payoff journey, and unfortunately now we're going to have a lot of expenses that's going to eat up a lot of our income. So currently, um, my husband and I make about $170,000 combined per year, and luckily I just landed another job, which in a few months it's going to bump me up about $17,000 extra, which is great. Um, but we have about $189,000 in debt, um, about $24,000 in credit cards, about $17,000 in car loan, and about $150,000 in student loans.

Okay, what's your degree in?

I have a master's in business administration.

Okay.

So right now, you know, on paper it looks really good that we make decent money, but our minimum debt payment and our bills alone per month eat up about $5,500. And now, even though I'm getting this extra raise by the end of the year, I don't have the ability to kind of stay home. So we also have to add in average daycare cost per month for a newborn where I live is about $2,600 a month. Yeah, that we're going to have to add in along with other, you know, costs for the child and groceries, which then decreases our amount that we have left over per month. Yep, which usually we put towards debt. So now it's kind of my husband and I are, you know, in a spot where we're not really We don't really know what to do. We're not agreeing. It seems like a really bad time to have a baby, and we just don't know what to do.

Yeah, it's an awesome, awesome time to have a baby. Okay, I'm serious, it's awesome. Yeah, and I know it's scary. It's awesome.

Okay, I was gonna say, we don't ever stop anyone from getting married or having babies. Like, the debt stuff is important, don't get me wrong. No, no, I hear you though. But you're also like, wow, that, uh, that paused the plans that we were so dead set on. Um, okay. Okay. What was, cause it sounds like you guys were on track. As you said, we were, we, you were in quote unquote the journey before you even found out you were pregnant. Had you guys estimated a calendar date when you would be debt-free, when all $189,000 was going to be paid off?

Well, my husband was using that EveryDollar app very religiously. So he's kind of, he was kind of more in tune with our debt payoff.

Okay.

Um, but obviously some things came, unexpected, which, you know, unfortunately we had to put certain expenses on a credit card, which increased the balance again. And sometimes it just seems we take 5 steps forward and then 10 steps back.

Let me challenge you on that. What happened that a couple making $170,000 had to solve right away via credit card?

Like, why did we have to put something on a credit card?

Yeah.

What happened that popped out of nowhere that, that y'all had to— y'all had to solve right away?

We had an unexpected lawyer cost for, uh, custody disagreement with my son and my ex-husband.

Okay, so how much money was that?

$4,000.

Okay, what I would love y'all to wrap your head around is this idea that we never borrow money, period. And here's what that means for y'all. That means you get a bill and you say, cool, next month we're not going to send any overage to debt, and we're going to take the $5,000 extra or the $7,500 extra, and we're going to pay this off next month. Okay, but what it— what, like, changing your psychology around it? Because for y'all, $4,000 is not an emergency because you can solve it next month, right? And you would have got a 30 days past due notice and a threat, right? And y'all would have written a check, and you would have moved on with your life. But psychologically, y'all, it feels like you went 100 steps back.

Right.

So saying I'm never going to borrow money again, it keeps you calm when the world throws stuff at you. Cause you're like, well, that's not an option for us. So I can pay you $2,000 this month and I'll pay $2,000 next month and we'll be good. Right. You get what I'm, you get what I'm getting at?

Not to throw a Dave story in here, Elizabeth, but I remember dad talking and he used to say this in the old FPUs that they would, when him and mom went bankrupt and it was like, well, right before actually, but they would draw a line or write out everything. And when the money ran out, a big red line went across the, you know, the yellow pad. And he was like, and I knew that X, Y, and Z creditors were gonna be calling. And he's like, and I would just answer and they would just yell and yell. And he's like, I have no money to pay you.

Yeah.

You can call me next month and we can have this discussion, but I have no money. Like, I'm done. Like, it was that, like, I know people are gonna be pissed and people are gonna threaten and whatever, whatever. But we are not borrowing money. And so it does, forces this.

You slow down.

Yes. This, this kind of extremeness. And then what I think it does too, Elizabeth, in some cases forces some level of creativity where the credit card, there's no, you know, that's not creative. It's just sitting there and you can just use it. Right. But it's actually like, oh crap. Well, is there something we can sell? Could you do X, Y, and Z overtime? Like, right. It actually forces you to come up with solutions. And so there's a, there's a mentality there that, yeah, John, John is spot on.

Can I ask you a question, Elizabeth? And yeah. I want you to say no, you've missed the mark completely and I'm all good. Okay. Is there any of this with the divorce from the past, quote unquote, and I'm saying this in air quotes, your student loans, and now quote unquote, you're pregnant. Are you feeling some guilt here? Because if you are, I want you to let that go.

Yeah, I don't really feel guilt as much because don't get me wrong, I used to be a compulsive spender, so I've been able to pay off like $70,000 in credit card debt over the last Couple years.

Oh my gosh.

Awesome.

So my husband is really kind of— because he is very— follows Dave Ramsey to a T, listens every day, wants to follow the steps, and I'm kind of adjusting my way into this. And now we're at this point where we were getting on a little— you know, we're going on our journey and then all of a sudden something gets thrown into it that kind of— we don't really know how to navigate it straight through it.

Yeah, and Elizabeth, um, to the— he'll know this if he's like an avid listener, 'cause we talk about this a lot, that when you are pregnant and you are specifically on Baby Step 2, you're paying off debt, 'cause if you're doing it, you have $1,000 and that's it. But if you are expecting a baby, we call it stork mode, where you do wanna put cash aside to have a bigger emergency fund during this. And some people have a dollar amount they go to and then they go back to the Baby Steps. Some people just take the whole pregnancy and just stockpile money. And then when baby's here and you're good and baby's good, they take all that money and throw it at the debt and just pay off a ton, you know, within that next month. So depending on what you guys wanna do, but I will tell you, you guys need some savings though for this, for this pregnancy.

Yeah, we only have the $1,000 in our emergency fund right now.

So that's gonna be your, your goal, I think. And you guys can, again, you can pick a number that you wanna have or, you know, again, or you just say, yeah, between now and the rest of the year, we're just gonna stockpile money on the side. We're good with that. And then you press play. Play to, to pay everything off.

You just have to promise you will not go buy a brand new minivan with $50,000.

Yeah, even my husband is like, maybe we should sell our car, maybe we should do this. I'm like, okay, let's—

you know, get some back.

I don't think it's as dire as you think it is, even close. I think this was just an adjustment to your picture that y'all had.

Yeah, but hey, if he could get $23,000 for the $17,000 car, sell it and go buy a $5,000. That takes $17,000 away, right? I mean, there are some moves moves, Elizabeth, you guys can do to make some big progress. But I could tell you from a lady that's been pregnant to a lady that is pregnant, having some cash above $1,000 is gonna bring you some peace, and then I think that's gonna put you more on that journey to pay this off and attack it. But I'm glad you guys are working together, and yeah, and that you're quote unquote adjusting to the Ramsey Way. I like that.

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All right, let's go to Jim in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi Jim, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um, I have a, uh, a question for you guys. I've been working the Baby Steps. Um, I went through a divorce about 5 years ago. I racked up some debt And I am about a month away from being able to pay off, uh, the last of my consumer debt.

Oh wow, congratulations, Jim.

Thank you. Um, and you know, now that the light is kind of at the end of the tunnel, uh, my ex-wife just notified me that she's moving out of county. Um, it's about an hour and a half away one way. We have 50/50 custody right now, and her plan is to commute the kids back and forth, um, which it's not really going to work. That's a lot of time for them to spend in a car every day. And so I've been looking for legal advice, and every attorney I talk to wants a retainer. You know, I have my $1,000, and I just don't— you know, they're all telling me they accept credit cards. I don't know how to pay for this. I don't know how to navigate it. I don't feel like it's It's not like I'm buying a new car or something. I just don't know what to do.

Yeah, yeah, I, I would let them know your situation. And how long would it take you to get $5,000?

So right now I, I've been saving about $1,000 a month.

Okay, that's been going towards your debt?

It's all been going towards the debt.

Yep. So you about $1,000. Okay, how fast is she going to be doing this move, do you know?

Uh, yeah, it's going to be within the month. Um, school is just ending.

Yeah.

And she's also quitting her job to live with a live-in boyfriend and requesting an increase in child support.

Yeah. Um, the best option I could give you is to sit down with an attorney and say— kind of tell them what you're doing, um, and that you're— I mean, literally say the words, I'm used— I'm paying off my debts from my last thing, from my from a— I'm on the Ramsey Plan. And most of the time they'll roll their eyes or they'll laugh, and you could say, here's my pay stubs, I'll get you paid, um, but this is time sensitive. Um, but man, you're— I mean, it— I'm just telling you, as a dad, I would go to the ends of the earth to keep this from happening. So I, as a guy who's sitting in the Ramsey chair right here, um, I wouldn't beat you up if you went over to a credit union to pay that. I can't tell anybody to borrow money, but just because it's got so many downstream consequences. But someone's trying to take your kids. Someone's trying to break the law and take your kids.

Yeah.

And there is a— there's an entry fee to that because I know every state is different, right?

But county to county, you can't do that, right? Like, she is—

I mean, is she violating the divorce decree?

So the divorce decree did say that you're— we're not supposed to move out of county without notifying the other parent, which she did. Um, and it's not so much that she's an unfit parent, it's just that that's a huge burden to put on the kids, uh, especially with moving. One of them's in high school and the other one is starting junior high school.

Yeah. Would you be willing to take 100% custody?

I would be willing, yes. Okay.

Because I'm just wondering, when you get a lawyer on your side, is there going to be something that they can do, you know what I mean? Or, or like, is it in, you know, the divorce decree that it's like, well, there's nothing, there's nothing legally that you can do? Yeah, or is there?

That's why we had originally— we had agreed on custody, so that part of it was, was pretty amicable during the divorce. But now it just doesn't seem like a real, a real possibility with that much distance between us. Sure.

Uh, do you have anybody, um— and I'm always, again, I, I live in such a Gonzo world, brother, that, that most of the people I sit down and talk to, whether in my personal life or on my show, like it's because they're in a tough season, something bad has happened. But man, there's the data on live-in boyfriends and kids is no bueno, right?

Um, so he would have a case to fight it.

I would— I'd fight it to the ends of the earth. Um, when you've sat down with attorneys and discussed them taking you on, have they told you you have a shot or not? Most attorneys will be honest with you.

I, I have been told that they think I have a really strong case, and that's immediately followed by, we need $5,000 now and another $2,000 30 days.

Yeah, that's usually what I hear is a $5,000 retainer. Do you have a friend that can write a letter just to stop the move at this point, or no?

Um, no, she's actually already moved most of her stuff. Um, I was sort of the last one to find out about it, except I had a heads up from the kids.

Okay.

Uh, and so I—

Have you told her I'm gonna go fight this in court?

I haven't. She, she expressed that she wants to try to do it outside of court but provided that she gets an increase in support.

Yeah, but she's not— I mean, she's trying to hold you hostage, and that's not going to fly.

Yes.

Um, yeah, she's living in a fantasy world. Are y'all able to sit down and have coffee? Um, actually, you know what, I wouldn't do that. I would send— I would send it via email. I would keep all my communication in writing. Um, but I would let her know the terms are— and I would put what she has asked you for. You're trying to get an increase in, in child support for— to trade an increase in child— of money for me to have time with my kids, and I reject that. And you didn't give me due notice of when you were moving out, and I'd like— I would put all that in writing and let her know that you're contacting an attorney and to hold tight.

Okay.

Um, yeah, yeah, you're not crazy, brother.

No. And especially when it comes to our kids, it's like a child that's sick or something. You're going to do whatever you can to your child, right? I mean, like, there's, there are those moments. Yeah. So I would say fight the fight. The only, if there was a word of caution, and it's only because we've seen and taken these calls on the other side that people fight in court and specifically with divorce, not always just custody things. And it's a 4-year-long thing and they pay, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars out and they end up losing at the, whatever it is, right? And there's like, there can be an endless cycle in the legal world with fees and attorneys.

If she's quitting her job and ask— and moving into somebody with somebody has no rent and asking you for an increase, she doesn't have any money either, does she?

No, she, she will have none, and she's going to be totally reliant on this guy that she's not married to. And I wonder what happens the first time they have a fight.

Of course. Yeah, and it's not a stable home for your kids, of course, and you know that, but she doesn't have $500,000 to fight you.

To keep you in court. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

So her family does have money, and I've had people tell me you don't need an attorney for this, you can do this on your own. And that was my plan initially, but I realized I'm so emotionally, like, involved in this, I just don't know if that's a good idea or not to try to do it on my own.

I, I, I just know too many— I know too many of my personal friends who've gotten burned trying to do things on their own, and I know too many um, great attorneys who make it their life's mission to take care of people in your exact situation. Someone who's getting taken advantage of, and the kids are the fulcrum of that, of that taking advantage. And man, they just make it their life's mission to make sure kids are taken care of. And that's what you're trying to do here.

You're not—

I don't even hear one ounce of vindictiveness in your spirit. I hear you want to take care of your kids.

Yeah. And yeah, do you think if— I mean, now I'm just— I feel invested in this story. Do you— if you pushed her from a legal standpoint, or if you chose outside legal counsel, would she give you majority custody, do you think, to keep the kids close to their school and from a lifestyle perspective? Or do you think she'll fight you on that?

I think it's money is her motivation right now, um, and I don't even want anything from her. I just want the kids.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

But it doesn't make any sense that she's trying to bargain with her kids and try to give you more time with them, but she wants money. Like, that doesn't even make sense.

Yeah. And the kids have also expressed to her that they don't want to go there, and she tells them she doesn't care.

Yeah, of course. Yeah, brother, I would, um, I would sit down with an attorney, with, with somebody that you've got some friends or colleagues that have used in the past that has a good reputation for being trustworthy. And not just trustworthy that they're going to fight for you, but trustworthy they'll look you in the eye and say, hey brother, I don't think you have a case. And the best attorneys I've ever sat down with have said, I don't want to take your money because you're not, you're not going to win here. And I always really appreciate that. But yeah, again, I'm just telling you dad to dad and Rachel's a parent, we'd go to the ends of the earth for our kids.

For sure. And Jim, I think it's so wise on your part, so self-aware to be like, I'm so emotional right now that I don't think I could probably make great decisions. I need help. I need someone. And that's what we talk about. It's like, where can you outsource people that you trust to help you in situations, financial and otherwise? Yep.

And I'm assuming, by the way, I'm assuming that you're working this Ramsey plan to a T and that you've sold everything you can sell. If I had guitars, if I had a car in the garage, if I had a riding lawn mower, I'd sell everything I had to avoid going into debt. But yeah.

Oh, Jim, you're a good dad.

You're a good man, brother.

Yep. Call us back if you need us, but we'll be praying for you guys. Yeah. And pray that it works out for you. Hey guys, healthcare is one of the biggest stress points in your budget. It's confusing and most of the time it feels completely out of your control, but there is a better way to handle it. Christian Healthcare Ministries isn't health insurance, It's a health cost-sharing ministry where Christians share each other's medical bills. And it's not a new idea. CHM has been around since 1981. It's predictable and proven, and they've shared over $13 billion in medical bills for their members. Plus, you get more flexibility. There are no network restrictions, and you don't have to wait for open enrollment. Now let's talk about how CHM helps your budget. Because programs start at just $115 a month, and many families save hundreds of dollars a month compared to traditional options. So if you are tired of feeling stuck, check out Christian Healthcare Ministries. Right now, CHM is offering new members a 50% credit towards their first month of membership. Go to chministries.org/budget and use promo code Ramsey. That's chministries.org/budget and use promo code Ramsey. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio.

I am Rachel Cruze, hosting with Dr. John Delony this hour. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. All right, let's go to Daniel in Los Angeles. Hi, Daniel. Welcome to the show.

Hi, how's it going?

Hi, doing great. How can we help today?

Question. Um, I'm 54, my wife's 53. Um, looking to need some help here. We want to buy a home. Um, business is bad right now. Um, got about $31,000, $32,000 in debt. Uh, income's not coming in the way it used to come in. Um, and so we're just looking for some hope, you know, being 54 and 53. Um, we really want to buy a home and be able to retire with, with some wealth. And, um, what do you do for a living? It's really tough right now. I'm in the commercial truck business. I sell commercial trucks and right now it's, it's slow. Um, typically it's a very, very, very good business. I'm talking about making over $300,000 a year, but right now I'm at about $108,000, um, after taxes, I mean before taxes. And, um, it's really expensive to live in LA, California. And my, my, um, my, uh, my, uh, outgo on a monthly basis about $8,000 a month. And, uh, towards what? It's expensive.

I'm sorry, what are you spending $8,000 a month on?

Uh, car payment, uh, rent, um, life insurances for, uh, me, my wife, my daughter, uh, car insurance, fuel, um, food. Um, all the household necessities, it's about— it equals about $8,000 a month.

What's your total? What's your total debt load?

Uh, $31,000, $32,000.

Just on credit cards?

No, no.

What's the car? Is it $32,000? It's all just in car?

It's, uh, $28,000 in car and then a medical bill that's about $30,000 right now.

Okay. If you sold your car, what would you get for it? Private party?

Oh, I have no idea. It's a 2023 Dodge Durango.

Okay.

I have no idea, to be honest. I think we checked. I think, I don't know, to be honest with you, I've never checked.

Okay.

Probably you're probably upside down on it.

Yeah, I think we are. And, um, I know things are going to turn around with commercial truck business, but, um, it's just bad right now, you know?

Yeah. Well, yeah, let me ask you that. Is, is there talk in your industry Is there writing on the wall here, or is it just with all the stuff going on overseas and the, the every, every business I know is talking about how AI is gonna impact them and gas prices. Is that what's, is that what's contracting your business right now?

No, AI doesn't, AI doesn't affect us. I mean, we're, you know, we deal directly where it's, it's, um, I deal directly with businesses, with business people. Um, it's just the market right now. It's just that coming outta COVID, it's been really, really bad.

Um, but that was, that was 5 years ago.

Yeah. And that's what I mean, since coming out of COVID it's been really, really bad. It's during COVID it was really, really, really good. And we just haven't been able to turn around, you know, I mean, I do have my customers that call me.

Here's my big question then, as, as a 53-year-old, what I don't want you doing is waking up and being 58 and saying it's going to turn around when you had a chance at 53 to sit down with your wife and say, hey, we have some hard choices to make. A, do we have to live in one of the most expensive places on the planet? And not only is expensive just to live there, but then they also take half your paycheck every month.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Do we wanna stick in this business and keep riding it out? $108,000. So if you're at $108,000 at this, you know, in the, in the middle of Q2 or at the beginning of Q2, you're gonna end up at $200,000 for the year. That's a still a great salary. It's just an adjustment from what you were making.

No, no, it's $108,000. It's $108,000 period for the year.

Oh, for the year.

Yeah.

So you've lost two-thirds of your salary.

What's, what's the thing is I moved from the old dealership I was at. I'm at a new dealership managing it.

Okay.

I have the commercial department. And so I required them to give me a guarantee of $12,000 a month for the first 6 months. And then the remaining 6 months after that, $6,000 a month. And then, you know, above that, my commission, a percentage of what I require.

But here's what I'm saying. You're a good salesman. And if you, if you know how to be a good salesman and you know how to lead salesmen, you're going to have a job anywhere. But your job and your particular thing that you're selling has— you're going to be down two-thirds. And if you've been struggling for 5 years, I'm just telling you as a guy, you're older than me but not by a lot, the hope is decreasing. Yeah, it's a time to sit down and have a really hard conversation and say, do we want to move to Texas where we don't have any— we don't have any, um, state income tax, or we're gonna move to Tennessee or Nevada somewhere? And we're gonna—

it's very hard to do because we have a special needs child.

That's what I'm asking. That's what I'm asking.

My in-laws, who live with my in-laws, they raised them. My, my wife, when she was younger, she was irresponsible, didn't take care of her son. Um, my in-laws are aging so bad, they still watch him, but eventually, probably in about a year or two, they're not gonna be able to watch him.

So Daniel, so I think what, I think what's hard is what John's saying is if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're gonna keep getting what you've been getting. And we, and you just don't wanna look up. 3, 4, 5 years down the road and you're in the exact same position financially where you're not able to buy a home. And so if our goal is to get our head above water financially, if our goal is to be homeowners, if our goal is to retire with dignity, then at your age, you guys got about 10 years, right? 10 to 15, depending on if you can work even longer to say, we gotta—

I was thinking about 15.

We gotta figure, okay, so we gotta figure this out. So if there are some non-negotiables, that's fine, right? There's a non-negotiable, we're not gonna move, is what I just heard you say. So like, as much as John and I would convince you to X, Y, and Z, you're like, nope, we're not. Okay, then what are some other negotiables? I mean, the, I tried doing Kelley Blue Book for you, Daniel, and I made me enter my email and all this stuff. I didn't know how many mileages were on your Durango. I was like, dadgummit, I wish I could find the price for you because honestly, the last 6 months or so, people calling in the show, Unless you rolled over negative equity. We actually are seeing some people are like, no, I owe $23,000, but I can sell it for $30,000. I mean, you may be, I don't know, but look and see, hey, if I am even $3,000, $4,000 underwater, you can go get a loan for $8,000 at the credit union, sell the car, go buy a $4,000 car and get rid of $28,000 of debt. Like there's some moves you can make that can be very significant for you guys, Daniel.

I mean, you guys are paycheck to paycheck. Back, and a car payment freed up is what? How much do you pay on the car per month?

$800. Yeah, $800.

That's pretty, uh, that's pretty nice to get that back in your pocket, wouldn't you say?

Yeah, yeah, it would. And Daniel, think about this, like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna round them, I'm gonna round the math off, okay?

Can I, can I—

yeah, go for it.

Add something. I, I am extremely good at what I do. I mean, very good.

Of course.

Um, but Um, but right now it's just bad. However, and this is not, it's kind of sad. I mean, obviously we had Eaton fires here a few years ago in California and that's going to start picking up the market because of the fact that contractors start buying trucks and vans, you know, for, because it's going to start rebuilding. So sure, I know that'll affect the business in a positive way, but I'm just so frustrated, angry.

Okay. Okay. But you got to act, you know, you got to act. All right. And so like, I can't, I can't get, I can't motivate you. You have to decide you want a different kind of life. And let's run the math out. I'm going to, I'm going to round the numbers off, but let's say you work for 15 more years and you make $100 grand. You're going to have $1.5 million. $750,000 of that's going to go to the state of California and $750,000 are going to be in your pocket. To spend how you want to. If that's okay with you, then so be it. What are y'all gonna do with that $750 grand?

I don't want the, I want, I want more.

Okay. And Michael Phelps is a great swimmer, but if I throw him in the middle of a raging river, it doesn't do him any good. You can be the best person at your job, but if the market's gone, the market's gone. So take those skills and have the courage to go somewhere else. You only have hard choices ahead of you. Make the hard choices that are gonna get you where you want to be, like sell the car, like reduce spending, like get a new job, possibly.

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mamabearlegalforms.com, code Ramsey. Next up, we have Cecil in Augusta.

Cecil. Cecil.

Is it Cecil? I say Cecil.

Cecil, you there?

So sorry.

Yes, hello.

Hey, what's up, man?

Um, okay, Cecil, can I just say, can I defend myself for not reading it correctly? Rachel read your name as Cecil because I literally was I was just having dinner with friends and their daughter, that is her name. And so we were talking, so when I saw it, I just went to there. I'm sorry, forgive me.

It's cool.

I'm sorry, you're a dude from Augusta.

Hooked on Phonics did not work for Richard.

I got it, whatever.

So what's up, brother?

So, um, recently I've had a very large string of unfortunate, um, situations. My income has gone down drastically and my expenses have gone up drastically and I'm just drowning and I don't know what to do.

Hmm.

So what happened with your income?

Um, so I did a lot of side work on the, like DoorDash, as well as I did a lot of just painting and help people in my area. Recently with the gas prices and other things, I had to slow that down. Okay. And as soon as I slow that down and my income starts getting lower, as well as some changes at my primary job where my income dropped significantly— what happened there?

Oh, hey. Cecil, can you, can you speak directly into your phone? Maybe step to where we can, we can hear you a little bit better.

Cutting out a little bit.

Okay. Um, I had to take a class for my work and I get a differential based on the weekends and my income went down by maybe $800 every 2 weeks.

Did you fail the class?

No, I passed the class, but the class isn't going to upgrade my income at all. And I'm out of it now, but that led to the down— downgrade.

Just while you were in the class, but now you're out of the class. Can it go back up $800?

It has gone back up $800, but the rest of it has gone down. And also my car has gone out, so I can't even do the sides even a little.

Okay.

What do you do for a job?

I work as a CNA. As a CNA? Like a nursing assistant.

Oh, okay. Okay.

A certified nursing assistant. My guess is that there's a market for that. Could you go get another job somewhere else?

Unfortunately not without my car. I have rides through my weekends because I only need a certain amount. I pretty much, I work 17-hour shifts Saturday and Sunday. Okay, and then just one 8-hour during the week.

Okay, what are you doing the rest of the week?

The rest of the week I am doing schoolwork. I am in college to change my career into accounting.

Okay, how much school do you have left?

I just started.

Okay, how old are you?

I'm 21.

Okay, um, I don't think you can afford to go to school. I think you have to, I think you have to be working 40 hours a day.

You just gotta pause, brother.

Or, or you go, or you go at night and it takes you a little bit longer. Um, but you gotta put the out, you, and I know you're putting the hours in on weekends, but the formula you have laid out for us, um, and what it sounds like is without DoorDashing or having a side hustle, you're not able to pay your bills. Is that correct?

Um, I, I'm able to, I'm able to pay my bills, but the problem is my cars. My car has gone out.

Your car's gone out. Okay.

What does that mean with your car went out?

Uh, I'm a mechanic also on the side and it's something that I don't even know. It's a head gasket leak, but there's also something else going on.

Have you gotten an opinion?

Yes, I have gotten a couple.

How much have they, have they quoted you?

Anywhere from $3,000 to $6,000.

$3,000 to $6,000. Okay, okay. Um, and, and you don't have a car right now is what you're saying?

No.

Okay. Um, and it's not running at all? It's just, it's done?

It's done. I can't even take it anywhere.

How much money do you have on the side if you're making all your payments and stuff? How much money do you have saved up?

I don't have anything saved up. I had a string of separate emergencies for healthcare.

Okay, um, yeah, I mean, what I mean, I mean, at this point it's, it's extreme enough that I'm like, all right, uh, do you, do you move in with family, uh, to save on rent?

Or do you Uber to and from?

Bring in a roommate? Uber to and from work?

From nursing? It's gonna cost you your first hour of work there and your first hour of work home with that 6 hours in between.

And if you're working 60 hours a week, you know what I mean? Like you could, this will shift pretty quickly. I just think you're just trying to do too many things at once and you're not able to get ahead. And so something has to give right now. So I would do, if you can do school at night, don't go into student loan debt though. But if you're able to cash flow it through school, do it at night or press pause on accounting for now. Get your head above water, get an emergency fund, get a car that is running, and then out of a place of strength, make a change. In a career or to, you know, for school. Um, but it doesn't sound like you're in a place to do that. You need to be working 60 to 70 hours. Yeah. Um, and again, yep, if that's an Uber to and from until you— till you save that, it may take you a month or two.

Or to pay a co-worker $5 to come pick you up and drop you off or whatever, pitching in on gas or something.

Yeah, absolutely.

And Rachel, we're getting this— we're getting calls a lot over the last 6 weeks, maybe last 3 or 4 months where people want a certain thing to be and it's not. And I've been there myself, you've been there. I want so badly for the car just to turn on, it's not. Or I want so badly to get a degree and get out of this current job I'm in, but I can't. Or I want this, but this is reality. And I feel like so many people right now across the country are just stuck. They were living such thin margins and suddenly student loan payment kicked in, or suddenly the gas prices went up just past where they could keep floating there, exposes everything. Yeah. Um, or their jobs are cutting back hours, or they can't— they just got a degree and AI has taken away the first bottom layer of hiring, and so they can't even get into a position. The reality is, if you're faced with what I wanted to be true isn't anymore, the longer you stay there the more anxious you get, the more depressed you— like, you're— that's just your body trying to take care of you.

And man, Rachel, if I could tell people one thing, it's just take action. Yeah, just take a step in a direction towards— I've got to stop going to school. I don't want to. Be real. Grieve it. Grieve it like crazy. Or I've got to take on a third job, or I'm gonna have to start asking people for rides, and I hate asking for anything. Or I gotta start Ubering to work. It's gonna cost me an hour and a half of my workday to get there, an hour and a half to get back. Okay. 'Hey, that's what I've got to do right now,' or 'I got to move in with family for a season.' Yeah. And I'm embarrassed that I have to do that. But delaying what is real, what's right in front of you, for 'I wish it was different' doesn't get you anywhere closer. And in fact, what we're finding is it's just putting you further and further behind.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think acknowledging the outside factors are very real, right? The changing job market, very real. The housing market, very real. You know, you could plug in the gas prices, right? I mean, like you can plug in external factors that are happening, but John, the people we see that are winning and we've, we're meeting 'em in the lobby. We have a great, we have a great audience today. They've been sharing a little bit of their stories. You know, when we have a caller on the debt-free stage, you know, doing their debt-free scream, like I will say the common denominator with people and it, and they don't always get there the first day stuff starts happening, but the common denominator of people changing their lives is realizing I'm, I'm the answer.

Yeah.

External factors are gonna happen. Things are gonna happen that we can't control, right? That is, we became good friends. I feel like, you know, you started here around the pandemic.

Yeah.

Like during COVID And I remember you would say it all the time, like control what you can control. And during that time was a strong message, but it still rings true today of like, things are gonna happen. You guys, the external factors are real. Maybe you started out in student loan debt and the person next to you didn't cuz their parents paid for co— whatever it is, right? Things are gonna happen. But it's the people that look up and say, you know what, I'm in charge. Of my future, and I have to make decisions. I have to choose things that I don't maybe not want to do. I don't want to work the extra job. I don't want to sell the car. I don't want to, but I'm going to choose to actually do something to the action, put it into the action, and actually start to see things shift. And so, it's up to you guys. It really is. And those are the people that win, Jon. Those are the people that call us, and you're like, we're debt-free, or we're almost out of debt, but you know, this is happening, whatever it it looks like.

But it's beautiful because you start to see that shift and you can feel it in their tone.

Get to reality as fast as you can and take action.

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The Ramsey Trusted program is the only way to find a top agent that you can trust who will make your home a blessing, not a burden. And it's easy, just compare agent profiles, interview them, and choose the right ones to work with. To find a Ramsey local trusted real estate pro for free, go to ramsaysolutions.com/agent or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. All right, let's go to Gerald in New York City. Hi, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you doing?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Uh, first of all, reality, what a concept, right?

Um, who would have thought?

Who would have thought we'd make a job out of it?

I have a shirt, I have a shirt that actually says that. Uh, funny. So I have, I'm retired, 63 still. Um, I'm set. House is paid for, cars are paid for, no debt. I have a pension, Social Security, my wife still works. So our investments are— I'm working with Fidelity and the broker wants us to— because I made the mistake of saying that we don't plan on touching anything for at least 10 years. And he thinks we should be in 100%. And that's really my question is, is it wise to really, at where I am in life? I mean, I did all the right things in life and I'm okay. And on top of that, I should also say this. So, I have like $450,000 in cash and he thinks we should put at least $300,000 of that into the market as well.

Well, my, my first, I'll let Rachel talk about money. My first red flag is anytime you're talking with, uh, having a relationship with a professional, whether it's an attorney, whether it's a tax person, or whether it is an investment professional, you should never think I made a mistake of being honest. Like that to me is a big red flag. If you can't sit down with your investment professional and say, here's what I want to do and here's what I'm thinking. Of course that you pay them to give you their opinion and their perspective, but they work for you, right? And if you feel like, oh man, I shouldn't have said that to them because now they're going to try to snake my money or get me into some high-risk something or other, man, I would say walk out that door and never go back.

That's just how I'm perceiving it. Okay, again, reality, what a concept.

Yeah, right, right. That's not reality, that's just how I'm perceiving Well, I think, I mean, you've done well for yourself financially and you've done well for yourself professionally. You're still married, so I would tell you that your gut is probably a pretty good— got a pretty good, uh, um, BS meter on it.

What, how much you, how much you have with him right now?

Yeah, uh, a little under $600,000.

Okay, and what are you, what is it invested in right now?

It's— I was at 60/40 And I just bumped it up because I literally just met with them and I—

60/40 meaning what? Be more specific when you say 60/40, what do you mean?

Well, I guess so, so, uh, 40, I guess more in the bonds and the safe things.

Oh, okay. Okay. And what does he have you in, in stocks? Is it like index funds, ETFs? What is it?

Uh, more index funds.

Index funds.

Okay. It's all Fidelity stuff. I'm letting them manage my money. So they are definitely charging me for that. I am quite aware of that. There is, right?

Well, I mean, a broker fee, but I do the same thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, what's, um, when I'm running these calculations, um, what's crazy is if you just left it, if you, if you had transferred the 40%, yes, we, I would not recommend having money in bonds and CDs. I have $0 in bonds unless you're a 98-year-old And you're like, "It just makes me sleep better at night." I'm like, "That's great, whatever," at that point. But you're a young 63. And so, I just did a quick calculation. If you had that $600,000 and you just left it alone, like you said, maybe you use some of it, but just what it could grow to by the time in 25 years, it'll be $7.2 million. If you went quote unquote aggressive, meaning it was just in the market, which isn't even necessarily aggressive. You could do, more aggressive type funds. But if you are, if you're just in, you know, the S&P 500 and index funds and all of that, like, it's, it's pretty wild where it will grow. And CDs, some of them, depending on the rate, won't even keep up with inflation. So I'm with him. I would not do 60/40. I'd do 100%.

And then, which is what they were saying, I would do—

that's what, that's what I do. That's what I mean. That, that is—

Dave's a little bit older than you, and that's how he does his.

Yeah, I'm not telling you anything different.

Um, So I would, I'm glad Dave's not here today, cuz I, I would've been nervous talking to you.

Oh no, he would've been proud of you, Gerald. You've done so well.

Yeah, you've done great.

You've done so good.

Okay.

The, the 4, the 4, I mean, I've worked my whole life, but doesn't mean I don't have, uh, fears.

No, it's fair.

I'm scared of him too. I'm with you.

My question is, my question is, Gerald, if you, if you guys don't really necessarily need to touch that money, is that because your wife still plans on working? Are you guys, can live off Social Security?

Like, I have a pension, I have a pension and Social Security. I bring in $10,000 a month, and then my wife is still working for at least another few years. She's bringing in $2,500 a month. Okay, everything is paid for.

Yep. Um, so you don't need the money is what you're saying?

The right things, kind of, in, in life.

Sounds like you did.

I did most of the right things in life.

Yeah, it's great.

I mean, I have a lot of cash and, you know, I don't want to use names or anything, but you know, I heard someone say until, uh, you know, our president is out of the office, I would keep cash because cash is going to be king when everything drops. You can jump in and drop it.

And then we don't have a crystal ball. We don't know.

Nobody does.

No, because it did go down after the IRA and now it's back up and above what it was. So I'm like, no, yeah, I, um, I think that the longevity of investing takes out these weird little dips and stuff that we get because of an administration.

I mean, personally, and I like cash. I, I have more cash than normal, and it has nothing to do with anybody in office. It has to do with I'm kind of a lunatic.

Okay, so Gerald, you gotta do what you're comfortable there, I guess, with that aspect.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have probably the 6 months or more just in the regular savings.

Okay, Gerald, let's—

I have my cash is in Amex and then in the money market. All right, hold on, Gerald.

Let's, let's, let's wipe let's wipe everything clean for a second, okay? If you lost all of your investments, it went to $0, and you looked up and your cash went to zero, you have a paid-for house, paid-for vehicles, a pension, and Social Security.

Yes.

Here's what I'm telling you.

My wife's income.

Here's what I'm telling you, that you did good. You did good. Okay, here's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing a 63-year-old guy who is waking up every morning and saying, what's my purpose now?

What do I do? Exactly.

Okay, and if you get up every morning and you fret over your money, you're a millionaire.

I'm not doing that. I'm not gonna do that.

Okay, then you're gonna have to do something. You're gonna have to join a bowling league or join some weird club in, like, in New York. You're gonna have to do something, right? Get a group of guys to go throw seed at pigeons. I don't know what you do in New York, but But like, but like, listen, you gotta have to get a gang, otherwise you're gonna like— your body will fall off a cliff. And I'm being serious.

No, you're right. I work out every day.

I know, but you work out alone. You work out alone. I want— you gotta get—

well, you should— if you saw my gym, you would understand why. I have a gym at the house. I, I am not fine. I am— we did things right. That's all I'm going to say. I'm eternally grateful. It's because of my beliefs and everything that just— I feel that.

I know, I know, I know. But listen, on this call, Gerald, you've told me, I think I've done everything right, enough that leads me to believe you're still wondering if you did everything okay, if you're— if you did a good job.

Yeah.

And so I'm telling you, you did a good job, and I'm telling you, you've got at least 20 years left, if not 30.

And so I better be going for that 100% and stop messing around.

Well, your money, yes, but right now you're fine financially. You're more than fine.

You didn't do— if you do nothing, Gerald, you're fine. So you're saying nothing? If you do nothing, you're good.

I want you— I want the next 30 years, I don't want you sitting on a couch with your phone out checking internet articles and fretting over your money. I want you out having fun.

Yes. And from the financial aspect, I want more bang for your buck. And I think you'd be making tons more in the market. So I would, I would move that 40 over. So if you did nothing, that's fine. But I think you could be way more efficient financially.

Yes.

By being in there. So, uh, yep, in the market. And then if you want to keep on to the $450,000, that's a lot. It's a lot.

Maybe a quarter million, then you could scratch by, right?

That's right.

And then go get it, gang. Go do some fun things.

And you've done great, Gerald. We're proud of you.

You did good.

So good. So great. The Ramsey Show question of the day is bought— brought to you by Yrefi. If private If you're in debt, student loans are in default, and you're not sure what to do next, Yrefy can help you explore refinancing with a low fixed rate and a payment plan based on what you can actually afford. Go to yrefy.com/ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y, dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states.

Today's question comes from Renee in Nevada. My husband has a gambling problem and has money invested in a retirement account.

Account.

How can we protect that money so he can't withdraw it? He agrees with me that we have to protect this money so he cannot access it. Can we put it in my name or another kind of account? He has withdrawn around $40,000 in the last 2 years, and there's about $85,000 left in the account.

Gosh, listen, gambling—

people who care about people, we got— dude, I am as First Amendment guy as they come. I am a leave me alone guy as they come. but access to gambling is destroying families. It's just destroying teenagers. It's destroying college students. It's destroying society. We have to draw some lines there. It's just, it's, it's out of control, man.

Mm.

Geez.

And I mean, honestly, from Renee, I mean, not 401s. I mean, they have to be in your specific name to get the tax benefit. And I mean, I guess you could talk to your, if you guys have a financial advisor and have some kind of documentation that says, and let— but he could still log into his account. I mean, I, I don't know, there's not a way to like— I mean, in a trust or a living trust or something, there could be some like legal loopholes, but you can't take it out of your name.

Um, I guess he could possibly put— you could, you could come up with a password on the account.

Yeah, he doesn't have that. That could be good.

So he could call around and get it.

I—

Rachel, I don't like Um, this really puts Renee in the seat as—

oh, that's a good— yeah, as the, as the mom and putting responsibility on her, or as the police officer.

Um, it, it's in many ways, um, gambling. Like, so if you, if you have an addiction to cocaine, um, or to alcohol, one of the first things you do is you get rid of all the alcohol, and then you have to decide, I'm not going to be in places where alcohol is, which it's just tough for folks going through alcohol rehab because they lose their friendship, their friends, they lose their, their, you know, cheers. They were places where everybody knows their name, right? It's hard. If you're struggling with disordered eating, it's a different thing because I have to make peace with food. I can't just cut food out. Similar with gambling, you can delete all the apps and stuff, but you have to make peace with money because that's how the world works.

You have to use it and interact with it.

You have to interact with it, have some sort of relationship with it. And So, um, Renee, if it's a very short period of time and you're trying to step up while he's getting in rehab and he's getting help, good and great and grand. Um, but if this is— this is not a long-term solution for you to become the police officer of the family finances. Um, especially—

yeah, well, because that's— I mean, a little bit of the addiction world, I've heard you kind of talk about this, that no one else can fix you. Like, so you can put things in place that are wise and smart, put hurdles, but he has to decide. Yes, that's not going to solve, right?

You?

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, he's got to go. If it's at this level where he is withdrawing from his account and he's looking at you saying, I can't stop, he needs to go to an inpatient facility.

Yeah.

And disconnect himself from the planet for 30 days or 60 days or 90 days and get, get the help he needs. Because this is not a long-term solution here. But short-term, I mean, short-term, I have given the password to, um, Amazon Prime to my wife before. I gave her my debit card for a season. I just carried cash when I was out of control. But I wasn't struggling with gambling addiction, right? I wasn't addicted to anything. I was just being a brat.

Oh, and you know what? It takes a level of humility because we had a call earlier in the show about this, to admit to something, right?

It's the worst.

And to go get help. But, and I know you've probably seen this, John, more than me. I've had only a few people in my life do like true 12-step and been in it, but there's some of the, of the deepest, most wonderful people that I know that you that walk through recovery. Yeah, it changes you.

Like, addiction and shame feed on secrets. And the beauty of a 12-step program is you walk in and you say, my name is John, and here, here it all is, here I am. And you're surrounded by people who are like, yeah, here's us too. And you realize they still like you and they don't kick you out. And you realize you're not the worst thing you've ever done. It's hard.

Uh, Ian Cron, one of our friends, he wrote a book, and I'm sorry, and if you're listening to this, I can't remember the name of it, but it was a little bit like the—

everybody needs a 12-step.

Yes. And he was like, It's those, those meetings are more like church.

Yes.

Than some churches today.

Like, than most churches today.

So saying all this to say, Renee, that your husband, if he chooses something, it just sounds intimidating. When you just said like go to an outpatient, I even was like, okay, yeah. But then you go back to your— and you're like, no, that, that's where change is. And those people that walk that change, actually on the other end of it all, I don't wanna say they're like better people, but it's— they're a— they, there's something different about them.

They've had to— they've had to mind. And I've known folks who've gone to multiple different rehab centers. It doesn't always work the first time. Time or the second time or the fifth time. But there's something about saying, I'm worth the investment, and getting well.

Yeah, Renee, I hope that that's helpful and that encouragement to you guys and for anyone out there that's hearing this. All right, let's go to Atlanta, Georgia, and we have Amanda on the line. Hi Amanda, welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for having me.

Absolutely, how can we help?

So I have a question, and maybe I'm looking for a little bit of validation with a decision. I am a single mom And I'm wondering if I need life insurance to take care of my child, uh, if something were to happen to me. But the— and I know the immediate answer might be yes, but my son has a trust, and then he would inherit all of my assets as well in addition to survivor benefits.

Okay, what was the trust from?

His father's passing.

Oh, okay. Oh, I'm sorry, Amanda. Okay.

Um, how much is in that trust?

Uh, when it's all settled, it'll be about $600,000.

Okay.

Okay.

How old's your son?

Uh, 4.

Okay.

And then what assets do you have that he would inherit?

About a million in property and—

property.

Okay. And retirement. Okay.

Um, I mean, when you look at that numbers-wise, I mean, you could pan it out and just think, okay, for his life, college, living expenses to whoever's gonna be taking care of him, right? I'm sure you have a will and all that in place. You know, is that enough? And I think you could make that decision. The reason I still lean towards having some term life is honestly, it's so inexpensive, Amanda, I think it's honestly worth it because if something were to happen to you so tragically, if you did have, I mean, how much money do you make a year?

Between $150,000 and $200,000.

Okay, so if you had, you know, $1.5 million on you or something, I think when you look at a policy like that, it is gonna be so inexpensive. That I think I would, and I may just do like a 10-year term until he's 14. Because again, that kind of gives you some runway. And the only reason I say that is I just re-upped, Winston and I both did, and we're self-insured. Everything's paid off, we're Baby Step 7. But when we ran the numbers, I was like, it's so inexpensive that if something were to happen, it is just like, it's just that extra cushion, that extra peace of mind for him. And again, you probably, you don't have to do a long, long-term policy and shop it around. If you go to Zander, zander.com, Zander Insurance, or, you know, ramsaysolutions.com/zander, we've been working with them for over 30 years and they're an insurance broker, Amanda. So they will, so you type in all your info and they basically shop around all the top companies and find the competitive rates. And most of them you don't even, you don't even have to do all the, what is it?

Like the, where they check in on you and they get They do all your blood work. Yeah, some of them you don't have to do that. Like, it's so— it's so simple and so inexpensive that I, as a mom, I would— sorry, it's a very long answer. I just want to give you my why.

Um, here's what I would do it, Amanda. Um, and you may have had some of this lived experience. When did your husband pass away?

Uh, last year.

Oh man, what was his name?

Sorry.

Uh, his name was, um, Robert.

Was he awesome?

Yeah.

Yeah. So here's, here's why I would. I've sat with people whose spouse has passed away and they have quote unquote a lot of money, a lot of assets, but they have no cash and they've got real estate, they've got trust, and they need groceries and gas or they need tuition payments or whatever. And so I like the idea of having a policy that pays out out relatively quickly so that if your son is 17 and he's heading off to college, he doesn't have to worry about selling $1 million worth of land and estate and stuff like that. He can continue on with his life and then deal with the asset, um, assets later. That's just, that's my opinion. I would have it.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting with Dr. John Delony, and we are taking your calls. So give us a call at 888-825-5225 to talk about your life and your money. All right, let's go to Henry in Tampa, Florida. Hi Henry, welcome to the show.

Hey there guys, I just want to say when I was a delivery driver in the UK, I would binge listen to the Ramsey and Dr. Delony shows. Yeah, I'm very happy to Long time listener, first time caller.

Very good, Henry. Well, glad you're calling in. How can we help?

Okay, so I'm 25, uh, and I just moved here 3 weeks ago, uh, from the UK.

Welcome.

And, uh, thank you, thank you. I just got married 2 weeks ago to my amazing wife.

Awesome.

Is she American too, or were you guys both from— you say England?

No, she— yeah, she's from Florida. I'm a Brit who cannot do with heat. I would not choose Florida if I had the choice.

Good luck. You're heading into the summer months.

Oh, I know, I know, I'm dreading it. Um, I'm just happy to have the air conditioning. Um, so basically, and, um, until I get my green card in what could be about 6 to 12 months, I'm not allowed to work. Uh, so after upcoming paperwork fees, I've got about $16,000 in my savings. I'm just wondering how I can spread/invest those savings to give me a decent amount of growth. Um, although I'm not, it's not coming from an income.

I guess my first question is, man, I've, I've heard of green cards taking a lot longer than 6 to 12 months. Do you have, do you have a good path?

Um, yeah, it's, um, 6 to 12 months is of course just the, um, estimate, but that's based on what, what the processing times are right now. So it's, uh, it's an optimistic one, but it's, uh, it's what we could potentially be looking at. Yeah.

Well, that's, that's us US folks. We're the optimistic bunch, right? You're already, you're already drinking the tea. I love it.

Um, is this the only experience with that?

Actually, we don't drink tea, we drink coffee. So we, uh, yeah, you're drinking the coffee.

Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that.

Um, okay, so Henry, yeah, for the investment side, I mean, are you, are you guys wanting to use this money? I mean, you guys are newlyweds. Yeah, you need it, purchase a home, are you you know what I mean? Are you going to use it probably in the next 4 to 5 years?

Okay, in the, in the next 4 or 5 years, yes. Currently we're living with my now in-laws, so we're in a pretty good position in that sense. My wife's working, um, so that's great, and she's got savings as well. But I'm just, I'm just trying to see how to basically like, uh, build upon my own savings because I just, I don't want to be leeching off my wife. I'd rather it be the other way around.

Well, I, I You, you've— you listen to the show along, so I've got a reputation. In fact, Reddit always beats me up for— I'm harder— I'm hard on men. But I'll tell you, I mean, you, uh, man, I can't believe I'm saying this, but you've got somewhat of a pass. I mean, actually, you don't have the pass, right? But like, but I mean, legally you can't. Um, but my concern for you is taking 6 months to 12 months. I'm not worried about y'all financially. It doesn't sound like you got a place to stay. Your wife is working. I'm more worried about—

yeah, what you're gonna be doing.

Oh, so when I do end up working, I'll be working. So next week I'm going to meet about— going to a meeting about doing volunteer work with a social media team at a church, because I do photography, videography, and editing. So I'll be building up my portfolio until I can work.

Dude, you're— I'm so glad you're here. Yes, it's awesome.

We talked to so many people who are like, I'm just stuck and I don't want to do anything.

And here you like, you're doing it and you have an excuse to not do anything.

Yeah, you're doing exactly the right thing, which is—

I want my opportunities.

It's awesome, Henry.

Just sit on the side of the road with a billboard and say, you have lots of opportunities here.

Look at me.

I could— I'll tell you what, I'll just— I'll set the— I'll set the billboard up because I can't deal with the Florida heat.

Sit in the shade of it.

Yeah. Yeah. So from an investment standpoint, Henry, honestly, because of where you guys are and the fact you're probably going to need this money, it sounds so boring, but I think I'd just put it in a high-yield savings account.

Yeah, I would too.

'Cause I mean, it'll grow 3, maybe 4, probably more like 3%, 3, 4%. And you'll make a little bit off of it, right? But if you invested at this point, I'm nervous that you guys are gonna need it. And sometimes riding out the market in less than 2 to 3 years, you don't always, if you, you know what I mean? If the timing's off, like you don't have that longevity of the growth in it. In the investment. So, um, I know it sounds boring, but I think I would just set it in a high-yield savings account because I think you guys, you're, you're so focused that I could see you guys moving forward so quickly on decisions because you're gonna have the ability to. And I wouldn't want it stuck in some investment and you're trying to like time the market because you know you have to get it out.

Okay, what do you, what do you want to work when you get this, this green card? What job are you gonna have?

Visa? I'm, I'm terrible with all this stuff.

Well, that's what I'm wondering.

Could—

what do you want to do?

What do you do? Just as a long-term job? Yeah. I primarily work in social media. Like I said, I do photography and videography. So yeah, I'm going to be working with this social media team at this church too, basically.

Awesome.

Because they're a little bit behind on social media, so to just get them up with the—

Sure.

I love that. Henry, you're an awesome guy.

Well, and if you're able to find even a 6-month or 12-month gig with somebody who will sign a work visa over for you, there in Florida. Um, and I imagine Florida has more experience with, with work visas, but that you might find a company that will pick you up, um, and sponsor you until you get your green card. So it's an honor to talk to you, brother.

Well done, Henry. All right, let's go to Raleigh, North Carolina, and we have Tyler on the line. Hi Tyler, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are y'all doing?

Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Hi, so I have— I recently graduated from college in December and I am also new to the Ramsey sort of Baby Steps program.

Welcome to the cult, brother.

Graduated. Yes, thank you. So when I graduated, I graduated with student loans, car payments, all that, okay, totaling up to like $105,000. Oh, um, and yes, so, uh, between now and then I've got it down to $90,000.

Good for you.

Last 4 months. But I'm looking to see, as far as my student loans go, I work for the state, and so there's a public service loan forgiveness after you work wait for 10 years, um, you get all of your student loans wiped. So I know about the debt snowball and targeting the smallest thing, and that's definitely my biggest thing, so it'll be the last thing I target. My question would be, once I get to—

no, I would not—

I wouldn't wait.

I wouldn't wait.

Do not wait. Okay.

And here's, here's, here's my two reasons. One, um, this is, this is me calling balls and strikes. The Fed has picked up up the number of applications that they're processing, right? So there was years when I had former students who were part of the debt repayment program working with the state, and they were— it was like 1% were getting it.

Yeah.

And everyone else is getting rejected. They have increased that. Okay, but here's what I want you to think through. Number one, 10 years is 2 elections away from now, right? 10 years ago, would you have predicted today?

No.

No, nobody would.

No.

Right. And so, A, who knows who's gonna be in office in 10 years and what program they're gonna say, I'm not honoring, I will honor, whatever.

And Congress passes it, right? I mean, like, yes.

Yeah. Who knows?

Yeah.

The second one is 10 years ago, I was 2 states, 4 houses, and 3 careers from where I am right now.

Wow.

And I would hate to have thought that I couldn't be in the seat I'm in right now because I was tied to to a $90,000 federal repayment program where I worked, right? So I want you to be in control of your life and you're crushing this debt. Just get it knocked out. And by the way, if they decide 6 months after you pay it off that they're gonna wipe away every student loan in the, in the country, know that you were a person of integrity. You signed your name to a piece of paper, you said, I'll pay you back, and you kept your word to yourself if nobody else.

Yeah. So the classic Debt Snowball, Tyler. No debt consolidation, no loan forgiveness, just smallest to largest, and you're killing it already. $15,000 since the beginning of the year.

Well done.

Hey guys, Rachel Cruze here, and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories. But you know what else there's more of? Spending. Oh, between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything. And that is why I love the EveryDollar budget app, because it helps you plan your money, track your spending, and find more margin in your budget so that you can put extra cash towards the goals that matter most. Enjoy your summer without the money stress. Download the EveryDollar app in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today. All right, let's go to James in Springfield. Hi, James. Welcome to the show. Hi. Hello, welcome, welcome. How can we help today?

Okay, so I have a decision on the table in front of me today, and, uh, it is a job change situation. So, um, at my current job, I am doing— we do okay. Me and my wife, we make about $72,000 a year, maybe about $17.50 an hour. We get a $1 an hour shift differential on the weekends. But for the last 3 years, we worked this job with no— like, we don't get any PTO, no vacation, no benefits. It's like bare bones. They actually just implemented a sick— like, occurring sick time or whatever.

What's the job, dude?

Uh, in-home care. We do— we take care of people.

Are you— are y'all 1099? No, you're W-2 employees.

Yeah.

With no days off and no sick leave.

No, we do have— we do accumulate sick days. We can accumulate up to like 56 hours, I think.

But no vacation. So there's no benefits. This company has nothing for you guys.

Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, with where we're at, we live in a town of like 800 people. That's kind of the norm here, which is unfortunate, but it's just how it is.

It is. Okay. All right. How can we help today?

So I've been considering, and I got a call today, and I've got a decision put on the table in front of me on whether or not I want to take this job, uh, working in a CNC factory for, uh, they do contracts for Boeing Defense, which makes me really happy because I like stuff like that.

Wait, CNC factory?

Yeah. Yep.

I remember CNC Music Factory. That's one of James's favorite bands, but that's not what you're talking about.

No, no, no, no, no. Like, uh, computer parts machining. Yeah, for F-14s and stuff like that.

Oh, okay.

Very different than CNC Music Factory. Okay, all right.

Yeah, yeah. But, um, so my big question is, is like, me and my wife have been working here for the last 3 years. It's really allowed us to like kind of get our lives together, you know? Like, we're consistently making good money. Uh, you know, we homeschool our kids, so it's kind of tough for us to both work and find something that works with our schedules and stuff like that. And going into this new job, I would take a little bit of a pay cut, like close to 50 cents an hour, but I'm also— like, at this job that I work now, I get overtime and stuff, and I would be not only losing all my overtime, but I'd be losing like 5 hours a week. I'd be like 35 hours a week. And, uh, I really like the idea of the change, and I'd have a set schedule. Like, at this job, we don't have a set schedule. I mean, I could have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday off, or I could have Thursday, Friday off. I could work 12 hours, 4 hours a day. It just all over the place. And so it's kind of like, I guess the big benefit for me of the new job would be like consistency for my kids, you know, not having to get them up out of the house at 11 o'clock to do shift change.

For sure, better quality of life it sounds like, but less hours.

Yes, exactly.

Is there, is there a pathway for getting a raise? What does that look like in this company?

Uh, whenever I—

this is kind of the other reason why I'm really on the fence about it, is like anytime I try and ask about about that kind of stuff. He's kind of— this guy just came in from Kansas City and bought this place, and he's been like trying to get the numbers up on it. He just signed some long-term contracts with Boeing, which were very promising and stuff. But whenever I talk about raising, he's kind of like, well, you know, nothing set in stone. I don't really have a—

he's got to make sure that he make— that he gets his numbers up before promising anything. Okay.

Yeah, the business was kind of drowning when he bought it.

Okay, so the question is, is it worth the jump because it'll be a decrease in pay but a better lifestyle from a consistency standpoint. Is that what you're asking us?

Pretty much, because right now me and my wife, we take home on average probably $53,000 to $55,000 depending, because I get overtime and stuff.

Yeah, yep. And then how much would it— how much would it be then if you took this job?

Probably take like a $600 to $800 decrease.

Okay. Okay, um, is it offset by—

we're also trying to pay off a lot of— like, not a lot of debt, we don't have a ton of debt.

What would it feel like making— yeah, I mean, could you guys live off of $4,800 a month and be okay?

Our gas, groceries, bills, and like every single dollar that has to come out of our account adds up to right about $4,000. Okay, that— like, it feels tight.

You know, right. Um, for us— and then what debt, what consumer debt do you guys have?

Uh, we have a car loan that's about $7,000.

Okay.

Um, we have credit card debt altogether. We're about to pay 2 of them off, but that adds up to, I think, right around $2,700 or something like that. And then, um, I had some— we had 2 vehicle incidents. I didn't want to file insurance claims because it was minor damage, so I did use Affirm, which I knew I shouldn't have, but I did it and, uh, fixed one of my cars— well, both of my cars— with the parts and stuff from that. So Affirm, I think I have $2,000 or $3,000 probably. All in all, I think I'm under $12,000 total debt.

Gotcha.

And I'm also in school right now.

Golly, y'all have a lot going on.

What are you studying?

Uh, accounting.

Are you cash flowing?

Uh, well, Pell Grants paying for a lot of it. I'm out of pocket like $600 a year.

Okay, great. Yeah, um, I would be okay. I mean, it's $12 grand, so I'm like, if you guys— and you got $900— that realistically, right, if you're going all crazy, um, you know, and you're only doing what you have to do, needs versus wants during the debt snowball, just pretend that you could throw $900 at it. And if you worked extra, James, which I know you would have a full work week with this, but if you went and worked weekends— could you work? Could you work for your old—

no, okay, I might be able—

could you do home health one or two days a week?

Yes, I was going to say on the weekends, surely they need you.

Well, I mean, I'm just trying to see how you can make it a possibility.

Okay, so here's the thing. If you could find an extra $1,000 a month on top of that $900, you guys are completely debt-free by September, October. Completely. Like, so, so I'm like, okay, perfect. So, um, if you can find that extra $1,000 that's— that would have been there if you stayed in this job, if you could replace that with something else, I think I would be okay with the move. But there's a part of me that I'm like, I think you make— you make better money at this job, and I know it makes life inconsistent, but for another 6 months and then take on more overtime with that job and make more. I'm like, could you get out even faster?

And then—

yeah, well, sorry to cut you off. Go ahead.

No, go.

I was gonna say, the thing that has me pausing for you is listening to you talk about the home health job versus talk about the CNC job. Your whole cadence and tone changed. You sound excited about the CNC job, but the other variable is you're going to school for accounting. So yeah, you're not— this isn't like a career move for you where I— there's been several jobs where I took a pay cut because it was going to get me where I wanted to go, and every time that's worked out to my benefit. But I was going to something, not from something, right? And so yeah, for you it sounds like you're just— I mean, home health will burn you out. That's a tough, tough gig, especially with a, with us, with a company that doesn't seem to care much about you outside of the workplace. And so I can imagine you wanting to just stop doing that, and you found the first ship out of that, you know, out of that harbor. But man, if you ride it out for a couple more years, you're going to set yourself up totally different and then go do the job you're going to college to do, you know what I mean?

That's kind of, that's kind of like where I'm at, is like I could take this job now short-term struggle, I suppose, but more of a path. Because like, even when we got this job, they were like, there's no opportunity for a raise. The only reason we got raises was because minimum wage increased in Missouri, and that was a nightmare in and of itself. Right, right. Uh, you know, my other option is, do I just stick it out here? I have a projected— I just finished my first term of classes in like 9 weeks because I'm doing like a self-paced.

How long do you get done in school?

September 27th, probably give or take.

Yeah. You're talking a year and a half, I would say put, and I know that, I know that's hard to hear, but you're taking a pay cut for something that's not getting you where you want to go. 18 months of stability and you're gonna throw everything back up with a, with a degree in accounting. And by the way, before I took one more class in accounting, give them one more dollar, I would make sure in my local area there's gonna be jobs for accountants, um, that you can, you can You can start working to use that degree once you get it.

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Good.

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Hi, thank you for taking the time to speak with me.

Absolutely, how can we help today?

Um, okay, so it's kind of a concept, but I would love to get your guys' opinion on. So I started listening to you guys about a year and a half ago, and just the contentment and joy and things that have just come from changing our mindset of not trying to keep up with the Joneses or look at what's next and all of that has just completely changed our life. And so as my husband and I are sitting down and just planning for the future, we are trying to decide how to help our kids basically. And I recognize they're little, we don't have to make this choice or these decisions for a long time, but you know, we're doing the 529 accounts and we We live in California, so it's ridiculously expensive here. And just imagining what a house is going to cost once they're ready to buy. And the thought of like, okay, well, we could start investing to have accounts set up to help them with that. But then I just think about my husband and I, and we're doing pretty well. And the pride that I have when I look at us and I look at my husband and the scratching and the clawing that we did.

Pride, um, for our careers and our finances. Like, it was me and him and God against the world. Like, we started nothing.

Yes.

And I'm just thinking, like, am I robbing them? Would I be robbing them of that? Like, I want my daughter to look at her husband with the pride that I look at my husband with, you know. Um, but I also don't want to be like, okay, you're on your own, kids, figure it out in this ridiculously expensive state. So yeah, we're just trying to get— figure out how to balance that.

I, I've, I've got some opinions. What do you think, Rachel?

Okay, quickly, two thoughts. I think regardless is if you help them with the house or not, they're gonna, they're gonna run into some crap in their lives regardless. It may not be financial, but they're going to run into some things. And I think if they have the character and maturity of what you're raising them to be, they're still going to be looking at each other as spouses and be like, we just took on the world. And it may not be a money issue, but it could be something else. So I think it's more the character of the person That's there. And then my second thing, kind of along with the characters, is I would pray, 'cause Winston and I have these conversations, Hillary too, with our kids, that we raise them in such a way that we don't have to turn a switch at 18 years old to be like, "Oh crap, now you gotta be responsible. You gotta think about other people. You gotta be generous. You gotta learn that money won't make you happy. Ah, you gotta learn that stuff." You know, like that switch doesn't just flip when they leave your home.

It is an act of who they are. and as parents, you walking life with them while they're under your roof. And then when you launch them into the real world, the prayer is they're not gonna be perfect, obviously, but the prayer is that they have a level of insight into money and contentment and hard work because you all have maybe, um, manufactured some of that while they're under your roof so that they learn and understand how to handle money. Um, so that if they are given some financial gift, whatever that looks like, it doesn't ruin them. It magnifies who they are. So those were my two thoughts that came up, but John may have others.

I love what you said, and I did everything Rachel just said. Hillary, I want you to teach them how to scratch and fight and claw. And because you're right, it's kind of like you're a professional MMA fighter, right? And you and your husband, and you going around and fighting all their fights for them will keep them from having broken bones and bruises, but they won't be tough when they face the real world. And so what is that going to look like for y'all that's going to be different? Like, in my house, I could have bought my son a truck. He just turned 16, but he worked for 2 years to save up to buy his truck because I wasn't going to give it to him, right? And he knew that years ago. And he treats that truck— and it's, it's my old truck, and I gave him a great deal. Obviously, I did all the parent things, right? Gave him a great deal and all but he loves that truck and he takes care of that thing because he— it's years of his life he invested in it. And so I want to teach him how to scratch and fight and claw.

And I won't have the money to buy him a house when he graduates, right? But man, he'll have the tools in his toolkit. And so some of that is, as he's gotten older, I've talked more about our household budget with him. In fact, our 10-year-old daughter, we just started— she leaves lights on on everywhere, right? We just started talking about the light bill, and here's what, here's what the light bill cost. And now I'm watching her go through— she's now, she's turning off the lights when I'm in the middle of doing something. She's like, Dad, it's expensive, right? And that's a little bit far, but I want our kids to know how the world works, and that way they're— I don't want to give them bruises, and I don't want to manufacture broken arms for them, but I do want them to know how the world operates. And as their parents, whether we have nothing or we're in a season of abundance, and they're going to know that life isn't free. And that means they're gonna not have an allowance, but they're gonna get paid for jobs. And I love hearing— my 16-year-old came in the other day and he's like, I need to put gas in the car.

And my wife said, there's 3 weeks worth of dog poop you haven't picked up in the backyard, go get on it, right? And so he's like, oh yeah, that sweat equity equals gas in the truck, right? And so he's going to learn those lessons so that when he goes out there— but you are dead on A— two, two people who get married, them two plus God plus the world, that's it. And the other thing I'll tell you is the data is pretty clear. The greatest gift parents can give their kids is to love each other recklessly, and that gives kids something to anchor into as they head out into the world. And so it sounds like you and your husband are doing a great job already.

Yeah, so I think the goal, Hillary, would be that you teach them in such a way while they're under your roof roof, how to do things and how to have the dignity and the self-efficiency of learning work and where money comes from and all of that. So that if later, 'cause part of our message is changing your family tree. And part of that does look like, you know, we've had people on the show and they're like—

I don't want them to need it when they're 70, right?

And my entire team— That's right. So, so yeah. And we've heard people that are like, I'm the last one to ever be in debt and I will do X, Y, and Z. But I do expect them to have jobs and whatever, like, I don't know, whatever the formula is. Is. So my goal would be, cuz Winston and I talk about this, that if there is anything in the future that is given, if we pay for their tuition for college, if we pay for their wedding and they don't have to pay for their wed— like whatever that thing is, that, that doesn't ruin them. Right. And if it ruins them, then the character was never built in the first place. And so yes, have the dignity of creating their own paycheck. They need to be, yes, out in the world cuz it's good for them. It's good. Good for society, right, to be hard workers and all of it. I just don't want something dependent, any level of a financial gift, to ruin them. I really— that, that would be like a, a character flaw. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. Um, and I mean, again, they're little, but we are working pretty hard on, you know, they do this for money and we're doing generosity and all of those things.

Totally.

Yeah, the gifts just kind of won't even matter.

That's right. And we did 401 Dave in our house. We had to pay for all half of our cars. That's what we plan on doing with our kids. Jon's already lived through it with him. Yeah, it's 401 Dad.

And, and I, and I love it. And here's another thing, Hillary, um, what I have found besides chores and things like that— and I'll tell you, in our house we divide up— there's some things that you do in our house because you're a part of this house, right? I'm not going to pay you for being part of the family.

Yeah.

And then there's other things that are jobs that either I would hire out or that I have to do, and so I'll pay somebody to do it, and you might as well take it.

Um, Dave was always like, I don't want to create little union workers. Every sock you pick up, you expect a quarter. He's like, no, sometimes you just have to pick up your crap.

But, but I'll tell you, one of the greatest things I've seen, and this is something I stumbled into, is my son and I started going to breakfast every once a week back when he was in 5th grade. And watching him watch me tip, that's when he got the idea of money. Because he would watch—

I—

it started with, hey, how much do you— how much you want to give as a tip? And he'd say $2. And I was like, let's do more. And he would watch them, the waiter or the waitress us, they would smile. One time at Christmas, they chased us out in the parking lot to give us hugs. Like him seeing, and my daughter now too, seeing what generosity looks like and how it's received. That for whatever reason has been the biggest shape shift in that, oh, we can be a blessing to other people. I wanna be a part of blessing other people. What does that mean? Well, that means you gotta work real hard so you have your needs taken care of so that you can bless like crazy. And so all that to say is there's a bunch of little things you and your husband can even when they're young, to begin to teach them about how y'all handle money. And they're gonna mirror what y'all do out in the world.

Yeah, and the importance of money and where it is, the role it plays in your life, Hillary, which is gonna be good. It's not a tactical lesson, but they're gonna see the importance of it or the, hey, it's just a tool to create a life that we love.

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Our Scripture of the Day comes from Hebrews Hebrews 4:16. Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Norman Vincent— is it Peel? I don't know, tell me, John.

You—

I don't know, according to you, you know, yeah, you know that, uh, those names, they can be hard.

Norman Vincent Peale.

That's right. He said empty pockets never held anyone back, only empty heads and empty hearts can do that.

Oh, Norman Vincent Peale was a famous ice skater.

Are you being for real right now?

No.

Oh gosh, I was gonna fall for it and be like, oh, I had no idea. Is he an author? He's a writer.

Yeah, he was a— yeah, he's an author. Oh, he was a James American Protestant clergyman and an author. Yes, he's a writer.

Ooh, clergyman, fancy.

Do you know what clergyman— or as Rachel calls them, clergate.

All right, let's head to Denise.

I can say this name.

Denise in Houston, Texas.

This is D-Nice and H-Tone.

Hey, hey, Ron. Okay, that's a great skit. That's so good. Okay. All right, Denise, we're coming to you in Houston.

What's up, Denise?

Hi, Denise. Hi, how are you?

Um, I guess I'm okay now. Better that I'm, uh, talking to you guys.

All right, we got you. I was just in Houston this weekend. It's my hometown. And I love it.

And Denise is my sister's name. So we feel connected to you already.

We got you. What's up?

Okay. Awesome. Well, I'm a spouse of a disabled vet that recently received our 100%, but in the interim I occurred debt personally and, um, business-wise. I occur about, uh, $35,000 in business-wise and probably about the same in personal debt. The company I used to work for went bankrupt 2 years ago, so I decided to do my own business, which was a boutique. Um, but now I think I'm ready to go back into, um, the workforce because the tariffs actually made my business, you know, kind of fail somewhat. I'm still doing it part-time, and I just need advice. Um, I'm a great sales consultant, so it's finance manager, and, um, yeah, I just need some guidance.

Okay, and it's $35,000 in business debt, and then you said $35,000 more on personal?

And the personal, yes.

Okay, what's the personal debt? What— break that $35,000 down.

Credit, credit card, credit cards.

Okay.

And loans.

Was it used, um, were you using that on the business, or was that just like personal? You were just using it life?

Yeah, I was using it for life.

Okay.

While we go through trying to get the 100%, you know.

Yeah, where are you at on that?

Um, I'm just— I was paying what I can, like a lot of them are being default. I just recently, you know, negotiated like one or two of them. But yeah, okay. But I'm— yeah, it's just I just thought Ubering, but I know I need to go back into the workforce.

Okay, but you're, you're still part-time at the boutique and you own the boutique, correct?

Yes.

Okay, how are you, how are you working part-time? Do you have, do you have other workers that are there when you're not there?

No, I don't, I don't.

Okay, um, with all the merchandise and everything you have in it, if you ended up selling it or liquidating everything, do you know what you would get out of the Well, that's what I started doing, but then I got overwhelmed.

Yeah, I paused it for 2 weeks because I've just been really, really overwhelmed. But, um, I think I need to go back to, um, trying to liquidate it and—

yeah, because what's it making a month? What does it bring in a month?

Um, it was bringing like at least 6 grand. Grand. But now because of the tariff and all that, um, maybe 2.

It's bringing in 2 grand, and that's profit after your expenses and everything? Okay, so you're not going—

you're not going in the red because I paid? No.

Okay, so it's 2 grand. And is that— sorry, with you working part-time, making 2 grand doing— with all of it, if you think you went full-time, would you double that? Or probably not, just with the amount of foot traffic and stuff because it's a boutique.

I probably would. I guess I just got nervous and overwhelmed and started Ubering and just kind of—

yeah, because if you brought in $4,000 a month, if that's what you made, and if that was— I mean, I guess you'd have to bring it home and pay taxes on that. Yeah, it's still not a ton. What did you— does your husband work?

Uh, no, he's a disabled vet.

Okay, how much does he get in disability a month?

Uh, he got disability, he has, um, his pension and stuff. Um, I think about $5,000 or $6,000, which he's taking care of the other bills. The only bill that I need to pay is my car note, which is a Corolla. And what kind of set me back, not just the tariff, I got into a bad car accident, okay, which set me out of work.

Oh, sorry.

Okay. Yeah.

Well, I think, so one of the best, I think, actions for you guys is even the way you're explaining how you guys are paying bills in the household, it kind of sounds like he takes care of this, I take care of that with his salary, my salary, all of it. I want you guys to look more holistically and say, here are the bills of the household, regardless of who drives what car or whose credit card, whatever. As a household, here's where we're at. Here's where we're at, and as a household, here's the income that's coming in. How can we most efficiently use this household income to tackle not only the household bills, but also get us out of debt? And I do wonder if there's more of a, yeah, that holistic approach might help. I don't know, Denise, 'cause I'm wondering if you do, I probably would, yes, either look somewhere else or go full-time in this boutique and see if you can make $4,000, 'cause if so, that's $10,000 a month you guys are bringing in, you know, if that's the case, which is not bad. That's, that's good. And you guys can make some headway on some of this debt if that's the case.

So I think you kind of have to plan out and put your business hat on and just say, okay, realistically, could I profit out $4,000 out of this business or more? And if it doesn't look realistic, 'cause you're saying tariffs and all of this, when you look at your expenses, if it just feels like it's gonna go into the red or your effort is better spent in another position, in another job, because you could double your income, right? If that's an option, then looking to liquidate everything in the boutique. Yeah, what you could get out of it. So, so I would kind of, I would kind of map out those, those two plans, see and shop some jobs outside of that boutique living and just say, okay, what's out there for me realistically and what could I make? And I would say if I worked here full-time at the antique, could I double, triple what I, what I profit.

Okay, but I, Denise, like, if— tell me if I'm wrong here— you don't fully know all the money your husband has coming in, do you?

No.

Okay, I think part of the scary thing for you right now is you're doing all this alone.

Mm-hmm.

And there's—

because I've been a single mom, I guess.

Okay.

All my life.

Yeah. So, I mean, you know, and I, and I get you've been grinding your whole life. Are you married to this guy?

Yes.

Okay. I, I, I would love it if you sat down tonight and said, I want us to, for the first time, go all in on each other, and I want us to put all of our money in one account. I want us to put all of our debts on the table. I want to put all of our income on the table, and I want us to look at how the total picture of our financial picture and how are we going to work out on our debts.

I guess I've never been in this position before.

I know, I know, it's scary.

And I'm so used to doing it alone, and it is tiring.

It's exhausting, huh?

Yes, I was a single mom, but I will say My daughter is in grad school. I did so much to get her there.

You did good.

Yeah, you did good, Denise.

And I haven't, um, I did it almost alone, which was very important.

Yeah, but, but here's the thing. I want you to allow your husband, who looked you in the eye and said, 'Til death do us part,' I want you to allow him to love you like you loved your daughter. You're worth being loved now. And so both of y'all fight this thing together.

And Denise, hang on the line and Christian's gonna pick up. We're gonna give you EveryDollar, 'cause it will start walking you through the Baby Steps, the debt snowball. You guys get a budget together and sit down together and start mapping this out. So it's a good tool that may help start that conversation. But thank you so much for the call. John, great show. Thanks to everyone in the booth and our great audience today here in Franklin, Tennessee. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.