Transcript of Choose Lasting Wealth Over Temporary Comfort New

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Charles is in Seattle. Hey, Charles, how are you?

Good, how are you, Dave?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Just wanted to get your advice. A longtime listener, really respect your stance on just about everything, and got two adults still living at home, not really sure, you know, what they want to do with their futures, and just trying I'm trying to figure out the best way to stress to them the importance of financial independence, especially if something happens to their mom and I, how are they going to make it on their own?

How old are they?

21 and 19.

Okay. So young. At least they're not 34. You're ahead of the game, Charles. No.

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah.

Okay. I mean, there's a lot of things you can do. I think the thing I would do is just, I go back to my friend Andy Andrews. He used to say, "We're not raising our kids to be great kids. We're raising them to be great adults. We're training them how to be great adults." And so I would just have a conversation along that line that just says, "Hey, I'm your dad and I love you. And the way that the 30-year-old version of you is gonna like you the most is if you get your crap together. And so, and so I'm gonna help you by doing a couple things. One is I'm your biggest cheerleader because I love you and I want you to win. Number two, we're going— you're going to develop a set of goals that has you as a standalone household living not here within a few years. And if that involves you going to school, we can help you with that. If it involves you getting a certification in a trade, we can help you with that. You're welcome to live here for a period of time as long as you behave by our rules while you do that.

But we're going to set a target of what you want to do with your life and how long is it going to take to hit that target, and at that point you're leaving.

And— I like that.

Yeah, and just, you know, so let's sit down and work that out, and you get to help me, you get to decide, you know, if you're 19 and you want to do 2 years or 3 years of school or 4 years of school, we can talk about that. That's not the end of "Again, as long as you're living by the value system of this household. But I just want you to have a target, hun, because living in your mother's basement at 34, A, is not gonna happen, and B, is not good for you." Yeah, and I wouldn't make it either feel that they have to figure out their whole life. No, just the next step.

Yeah, right. So, what is something—

That you wanna do, that you can make a living, meaning you can live somewhere else. That's what "make a living" means. So what you gonna do with this next stage of your life? Not your whole life, but the next stage. What do you want to do? Set a goal. Have something you're aiming at. Are either one of them doing any education?

Uh, no, not right now. Just, just working.

Okay. And, and, um, so they're just comfortable?

Yes, that's a great word.

And they're not bad kids. You're, you're— otherwise you'd have been throwing them out anyway.

Yeah, yeah, yes.

You just don't— you just don't want them to be, you know, in their mother's basement when they're 34. And that's a good dad.

Okay.

So the always thing I think about is this. I always think about the picture of the eagle. The eagle builds its nest out of the most grotesque 6-inch-long thorn bushes. The thorns are 6 inches long, and then it meticulously fills the nest full of down to where the baby eagles, when they're born, do not feel a single point off of the thorns. As the baby eagles are born and start to mature, the mother eagle systematically begins to remove the down from the nest a little at a time.

Is this true?

This is true.

This goes well with your analogy.

A little at a time to make them uncomfortable to the point that there is a point and that they don't want to stay because it's a nest of thorns. And they stand on the edge and they, put their little wings out and they fall off the edge of the nest for hundreds of feet before they finally soar. But they would never soar as long as the nest is comfortable.

That makes sense.

And that's an act of love.

Yeah. And to make it uncomfortable, Charles, could just be an end date and to be like, hey, 9 months from today or whatever, you know, we're going to have to make a plan for you guys to Yeah, I think it depends on the kid.

It depends on their earning ability. It depends on what the plan is. If the plan involves some education and you want to let them stay there while they're going to school or something to make it affordable, yeah, that might be okay.

Yeah, but making it uncomfortable doesn't mean you have to like start being overly controlling.

No, we're not being a jerk.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not being a jerk, but you're just reminding you that this is not how life works.

Yep.

And we're all going to come into agreement on that. And your wife aligned on this, Charles? Is she gonna go along with this?

Yeah, I think we just both want to do what's best for them without being brash.

You don't have to be mean or rude, but it's just, this is the way it is. People grow up and they leave, and so we want to help you do that, and that's our last act of parenting. "Because then, I'll just be the parent of adults," which is the most difficult stage of parenting, by the way, 'cause you can no longer tell them what to do. Now, I just have to go along with whatever Rachel thinks she needs to do.

So—

Just look at me and smile. I'm just saying, that's great. Yeah, but nothing's on fire, Charles. Again, they're 19 and 21. I mean, I know—

It could be a 2-year plan, a 3-year plan.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It could be a 6-month plan.

Nothing is on fire. And again, I think you know the end game, of what's good for them. But you start those conversations.

Exactly.

And a system in place to help them, to help them get there.

Yeah, but the rent that you pay if you want to stay here 10 minutes more is you start developing a plan that we all agree to. That's your rent. And you will develop that plan or your rent is— you're going to be in default on your rent payment. And that means you got to move for sure. So you're going "to develop a plan with an exit date, because I love you." That's simple. That's tough love. Oh, God, I'm so tired of that phrase. It is not tough love. That is just love. Is the mother eagle being tough when she makes those thorns exposed? No, because that eagle sitting in that nest—

For survival, 'cause—

Exactly.

Yes, yeah.

They can't stay. You know, 3 adult, 4 adult eagles can't stay in a nest. I mean, come on. Hello. And now, turkeys, turkeys can do that.

It's fluffy.

An eagle that fails to fly is called a turkey. That's the way this works. So, yeah. That's a great question, Charles. I appreciate your heart. Yeah, and we don't recommend being rude or mean or nasty or something like that. Some cultures are more abrupt about this than other cultures.

Or the opposite. They're very much more—

Yep. You know— I mean, you can be anywhere on the spectrum. You can be all the way over on one side of the spectrum, all the way over on the other.

Yep.

Some cultures are more abrupt, some are not. Some of them live together their whole lives. So, but in an Anglo-Saxon North American culture, this is our normal way of operating. And it's the normal way of functioning in this economy and functioning—

It's good for them. You know, when there's a 24, 25-year-old living on their own, paying their bills, all of it, you are more productive. There's a sense of, yeah, there's a confidence there. That you're on your own, that's a good thing.

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I'm doing good, how about y'all?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I'm just starting to get into the Dave Ramsey stuff and I'm starting to build my do my baby step because I'm getting married in November. I'm starting the baby steps.

Oh, congratulations.

Thank you. My question is, do, uh, is a high-yield savings better than a money market account? Or, because I'm trying to get it where, like, my daddy has worked his whole life. He got into me, is you got to work until you 55, then you, you enjoy life. And I don't want to do that. I want to enjoy life as I go on, get older. And because I'm 24 years old, and I love to go out and do stuff and enjoy life as I go on through life.

I can appreciate that, Jeb. As long as you pay cash for it, we're all about that.

As long as you get out of debt and stay out of debt, you'll have the money to do that.

That's right.

Yeah.

But if you're financing that idea that you just laid out, then it would be a bad idea.

But you're gonna follow the Baby Steps, you said. But to answer your question, I prefer a high-yield savings account, Jeb, and this would be more for your emergency funds. So that $1,000 on Baby Step 1, and then once you are debt-free, all of your consumer debt is paid off, then you bump that up to 3 to 6 months of expenses. So I, yeah, we have a high-yield savings account.

At Fairwinds Credit Union.

Yeah, at Fairwinds. And yeah, and I like it because you usually can get a higher rate of return, slightly, not significant, but it's there. Now it does not have, most of them do not have the ability to have a debit card or write checks out of. So sometimes transferring money, you'd have to transfer transfer it to a checking account if you needed to get to it. But if it's all within one system like Fairwinds and you have a checking account with them, it's fine. You can just move money from account to accounts. But yeah, but we used to have a money market account back probably 15 years ago, but we just, we moved everything over to a high-yield savings account a few years back.

The biggest difference is not the rate. The biggest difference is usually your high-yield savings is gonna be with a bank and you've got those transfer capabilities. It's just easier to manage. But the rate might be, It's not that significant.

It's usually a little bit higher with high yield.

A high yield savings account is probably a 5 or a 10-year-old product. Money market accounts have been around for 50 years. And so, you know, when we first started teaching this stuff, we're like, you know, don't put it in a stupid 1% or half a percent savings account, passbook savings they call it, at your bank. Don't do that. And don't put it in a CD because you get penalties if you withdraw it because your engine blew on your car.. So use a money market account. And at that time, banks were starting to open these accounts they called money market accounts, but they were kind of mirroring the actual money markets is what they were doing. Most of those have been rebranded to high-yield savings accounts now. And so it's basically CD rates that are fully accessible. And you know, that's the reason Rachel's saying that, and she's exactly right.

Yeah, but seriously, go to fairwinds.org/ramsey, and there's the Smart Bundle. And so you can get that all, you know, taken care of. And you can, you know, you're engaged, you'll have your wedding soon. So you guys open up one for a high-yield savings account for the wedding and put your names on it and start budgeting out of that so you pay cash for the wedding.

Megan is in Nashville. Hi Megan, how are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Uh, so I guess we'll start with, um, debt. Obviously that's why I'm calling. Um, I'm 50 years old. Uh, I've been going through a divorce for about 4 years now. It was finalized 2 years ago, but I'm still kind of knee-deep in it with financial stuff.

Why are you still deep in it after it's finalized?

Um, because in the— basically in the decree, I was to refinance or sell the house. Um, I tried to assume the loan twice. We have a VA loan at 2.25% that's in his name only.

You can't.

He would not allow me to do that.

Well, they, they won't, they won't allow you to do that.

Right.

Loans are not assumable.

Right. Um, so I didn't qualify to refinance because, um, the money that he's actually supposed to be paying me, he's $40,000 in arrears. So what's court ordered and what's actually going into my wallet are two different things. So I didn't qualify to refinance. Um, so here we are a year and a half later. I'm still in the house trying to figure out like, if we leave this house, I don't know where me and the kids are going to go.

How many kids? How many kids?

I have three. They're 13, 17, and 20.

And what's the house worth?

Well, without the problems, probably $500,000.

What problems?

$70,000 in foundation work. Um, who said that's the main problem? Who said, uh, I've had a, um, well, there's cracks all over the house. I've had an inspection report. I've had a structural engineer come out. I've had an appraisal who, uh, he, my appraisal was about $120,000 less than their, his appraisal because they didn't take into account the fix on the house. So if it does have to be sold, it's either going to have to be sold as is.

So $500,000, but minus problems.

Okay.

And then what's owed against it?

Maybe $220,000.

Okay. You're not going to like me. You're not going to like me. Are you ready?

I'm ready.

Sell the stupid house.

Yeah.

This house has problem, problem, problem, problem, problem, and you're trying to— because you're a good mom, you're trying to minimize the pain of the divorce by letting the kids stay in their neighborhood and in their schools. Sell the stupid house.

100%.

It's— it's—

it's—

that's a good mom, but you're doing more harm than you're good by trying to hang on to a dream that has died. And your heart is broken and you're mad, and I don't blame you for any of that. That just means you're a regular person, and I'm on your team, okay? But that house is no longer a blessing.

Right.

Sell it as is. Get out of it. Get your money and go rent something in the same school district for a minute and get yourself stabilized and set up your life. And that'll also give you the money to put him in jail if he doesn't keep the court order.

Well, he's trying to put me in jail. He has me in criminal contempt actually. And that's what's coming out.

On the house?

He has me in jail. Yes.

Okay. Yeah.

Well, because I haven't sold a refund, trying to keep a roof over their head.

And where— well, that's that.

Yeah.

You need to put it on the market and you need to sell it. Not because of that, but because it's what's best for you. And then go ahead and have your attorney file on him for contempt for being $40,000 in arrears.

Right.

Yeah, you need to, you need to put his head in a vice.

Um, and I metaphorically making like, I make $25,000 a year working at their school. However, the schedule allows me to also go to school. I have my oldest is in college. My daughter just graduated. She's starting college and I just graduated with my associate's getting ready to start my bachelor's degree. And you were married 20 years, 23 years, and I barely got 4 years of alimony. So that ends, um, my daughter's child support ends in 2 months. My alimony ends in 2 years, but he's not paying it anyway.

So it doesn't end until he pays it. Doesn't end until he pays it. And we're gonna make him pay it. We're gonna use some of the proceeds from the house to make him pay it. I want to take all the teeth out of his case and put them all in your case. And you know that this house does not represent the blessing that you were trying to create. The money from the house and the freedom from the foundation problems and the freedom from the refinance problems and the divorce problems is worth way more to your family and your kids and you than the house is. Please let it go.

And she can't assume the mortgage. But so from a legal perspective, she has to sell it, right? If it's in the divorce decree?

No, the divorce decree said she had to sell it. It's that simple. She's got to sell it or refinance. She makes $25,000. She can't refinance it.

She won't make enough money to refinance it.

And you don't refinance it on 4 years worth of alimony anyway. That's not— they're not going to count that on the mortgage app. So, it's not enough alimony. If you're getting alimony for 20 years, you can count it. Child support for 2 years and alimony for 4 years is not gonna count because the mortgage company is smart enough to know how you gonna pay the payment when that's done. You can't. So, I'm not sure if you're talking about—

Yeah, Megan, go rent for a little bit. Stay in the same area. Just go rent somewhere. And then you can, and you'll finish your degree.

It's an adventure.

Start a new career path for you. And yeah, it'll be a 2-year limbo, 2 or 3 years. With all of that, but that's great. I mean, there's a part of me that I'm like, it's a fresh start. There's something to that that I think is great for you.

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Normal's how I feel and normal sucks." Are you ready? Well, you don't have to live that way. Our EveryDollar budget app helps you find extra money every month and helps you build a personalized plan to get out of debt and build wealth. You wanna live like no one else so later you can live like no one else? We'll hold your hand and show you how. In this app, and it moves people along the Baby Steps super fast. In just 15 minutes, you're gonna find thousands of dollars in hidden margin. You know, feel like you got a raise, and then you can begin to attack the debt and then see the way to build wealth. Don't be normal. Start EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Jay is in Orlando. Hi, Jay.

Hey, Dave, how are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Awesome. Hey, I got a quick question in regards to— I just need a little bit of wisdom here. So, uh, my family and I were building what hopefully is a forever home, and we would like to know, or at least I would like to know, what we should do with our current home. Should we rent it or should we sell it? Okay. Um, I can provide— I can provide a little bit more.

That's okay. Are you paying cash for the new home?

—No, no, we're not. —Then sell it. —Going to refinance.

—Then sell it. —Okay. —Okay, because you would not borrow money on the new home to buy a rental. And that's the same thing. By not paying this off, it's the exact same thing.

—How much is the new house going to be, Jay?

—It's going to be about $400,000, and we pay about $1,200 a month for our current home. It's about $160,000. $350,000 that we have left on it. Yeah.

And the new home is worth what? Or the old home is worth what?

$400,000.

Oh, the new— what about the new home? How much is the new home?

The new home is $400,000.

Oh, how much is the old home worth?

Right now? $350,000. About $350,000. Okay.

You're not exactly moving up a lot. Yeah.

I mean, I, I, I make a decent income. We're, we're expecting our third child, so we're trying to get extra room.

Our current home is 3,000 I said you're not moving up a lot. You're moving up $50,000 in value.

Yes. Yeah, it's the market here in Florida. It's insane, uh, to, to build a new home.

I'm saying that's not most.

Cheaper.

Yeah, most of the time when people move up in home, they move up hundreds of thousands. That's why I was curious. Okay, I'm, I'm good.

I don't want to be house poor.

That's good. I'm glad. I'm happy for you.

Yeah, but if you apply all that equity to this new house house, you guys, from a mortgage perspective, I mean, you're almost halfway.

Yeah, you're gonna get that thing paid off fast, quick.

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Um, the only thing is that we were— we wanted to start like a, a, uh, or like real estate property business to rent it out because we were looking at renting it out for $2,500. I would do that.

I would do that only with a paid-for property.

Paid for. Okay. Yeah, makes sense.

Because it just gives you a lot more margin and a lot more room. And the only other comment I've got is, Jay, there's no such thing as a forever until you get to heaven. Okay, because it's just a stupid house and you're gonna move. Okay, the number of people that stay in a house 40 years in America today is almost zero. The average American moves every 5.6 years. So I always giggle when I hear forever home. Now what this is, is a very nice upgrade that your family needed, and it's a good investment, and I'm glad you're doing it. But if you— the problem is, folks, when you frame something as we— you justify all kinds of stupidity if you say we're gonna be there forever. It's like someone saying, "I'm gonna buy a new car, but I'm gonna drive it for 26 years, and that makes buying a new car smart." No, it doesn't. It's still a dumb car. Okay, so, you know, that doesn't change the numbers. So just don't use forever home to justify anything. Just say, "Emotionally, we are ready financially to, with wisdom, buy a nicer home for our family." And you are, by the way, Jay.

And so congratulations. Daniel is in Boston. Hey, Daniel, how are you?

Wonderful. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve.

What's up in your world?

That's good. Yeah, so I got a few questions for you guys. Hopefully you can answer me. Uh, so I am a local 4 union operator. Uh, so I'm getting offered a significant amount more going private than unionized. So that means I'm not going to have health benefits. I'm not going to have health, dental, and all that good stuff on this private company, but I'm going to make— so I make $115,000, $125,000 a year being the union, and the private company is going to pay me about $235,000, $245,000. Okay. In what world is health insurance worth $100,000? That's, that's my question. Not any world. Yeah, so is this a no-brainer? It's a no-brainer. Private company for— it's a no-brainer. $100,000. You bet it's a no-brainer. I shouldn't be stressed out about no healthcare and dental.

Go buy a health insurance policy. They don't furnish it at the new company?

They do, they offer it, but you're gonna have to pay for it.

But that's fine, it'll come out of your paycheck.

How much is it?

Yeah. How much is it? I think it's, uh, so right now as of my local 4—

No, honey, I mean at your new company, how much does the health insurance cost?

Uh, $100 and so, what is it, like $17 a week or something?

So that's at the new company. If you take the $250,000 job. Yeah. Yeah. And you, and then you have health insurance when you give them the $17 a week, right? Yes, that's correct. Yeah. So what's there to be stressed about?

I think that I'm not gonna have it like dental, healthcare. How many mouths do you have?

For $100,000 a year, you can buy a dentist and have him stay in your home.

So this sounds like a no-brainer to take this, take this opportunity and run. Yes. Yes.

Yes. And your growth opportunity is gonna be be so much faster.

Yes, sir. And larger in the—

yeah, in the private sector. What you're learning, Daniel, is that the, um, that your source of provision is your ability to do electrical work. It is not the private company and it is not the union. It is Daniel. Yeah, you are the secret sauce. And so if this private company turns up bankrupt in 3 years You are still Daniel that knows how to do electrical work, and you're still worth $200,000 a year in the market.

Yeah.

And so that's your source of provision. The union is not your source of provision. The negatives about a union is, is they teach you, they brainwash you that the union is all-encompassing and they are your provider. And that's all bullcrap. Okay? The union is really good at some things. And being in a union many times is a good thing, but not if you emotionally accept that somehow that it's worth— that you should take a $100,000 a year pay cut for dental. They're not that good. There's nothing about a union that's that good. So nope. And here's the weird thing: you can actually go back. Yeah, if you hate it. 8 years from now, if you want to go back, you could go back. Now you won't have all the pension and all that crap, but I mean, in the meantime, you will have made an extra $100,000 a year, $8,333 a month, $2,000 a week more money. That's a lot of dental.

It's a lot of dental. Well, I was gonna say, I feel like his struggle, it's, you have the fact, I mean, he knows the facts. He can run the numbers himself. I think it's just this comfortability of, I've known something for so long, that's to your point, giving me a safety net, all of that, and I have to step out of that and that's— and that feels—

but he's been told, like, union health insurance is like the thing, the bomb. Don't lose it. Don't lose it. Don't lose it. Don't lose it. But dudes, health insurance is health insurance. If they pay the doc when you're sick, it don't matter. That's all there is to it.

And good for you, Daniel. Yay! Well done.

Congratulations, man. I'm so proud for you.

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Reminder for everybody out there, this show that we do is Monday through Friday from 1 to 4, live every day. It's on 640 talk radio stations across America, making us the second largest talk radio show in the land. My friend Sean Hannity is holding the spot of number one tightly And then of course we're on podcast and YouTube and everything else out there in the world, every other platform you can think of. Spotify is huge and all of those things. But anyway, if you're ever around Nashville, we're in Franklin, just south of Nashville, and our campuses are open to the public. We've got a wonderful bookstore and coffee shop, and all the coffee and the homemade chocolate chip cookies are all on us. They're complimentary to our guests. We want you to come in here and smell that chocolate chip cookies, feel like your mama's kitchen. And hang out with us in the lobby. And we've usually got 50 to 200 folks or so, somewhere around there, watching the show on the glass every day for 3 hours. And you're more than welcome to stop by and see the Debt Free stage and see all the stuff that we do in here.

And it's a lot of fun. There's a lot of stuff to do here on campus. So come by and see us. We'd love to have you anytime. We get to meet people from every corner of the nation and from just about every country these days. Countries are stopping by and seeing us. So thank you for that. We appreciate it. We love coming out. We go out at the commercial breaks sign books and take pictures, and that's what Rachel and I were just doing a minute ago. Matt is in San Antonio. Hi Matt, how are you?

Doing well, how are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, so I've kind of got— we're working the baby steps right now. We have about $105,000 in debt, and but there's a lot of moving parts. My son was diagnosed with autism and And he's just really having a bad time in school, a lot of behavioral issues. And so they recommended ABA therapy, which is about 30 hours a week. And so my wife, who works nights and doesn't like her job anyway, you know, is— who's also the main carrier of insurance, we think that she's the one that should, you know, step back to be able to take him and do that. I'm a teacher and I make about $60,000 a year, and realistically it just doesn't work.— as far as our budget's concerned to make that happen. And so I was wondering— so our house is valued at about $580,000. And if we sold it, we'd probably get— we owe about $306,000, so we'd get around $250,000 after fees and all that. And then we could downsize and maybe pay for a house cash. And so I'm just kind of stuck. I don't know what the right move is. And how old is your son?

He's 7. How many kids you got? I have 2. I have a 10-year-old and a 7-year-old. I'm sorry, man.

Y'all are against it, man. Wow.

Um, do they know how long the therapy— how, how many years he'll be in that, that extensive per week 30 hours? Did they give you a time frame at all?

It is, uh, 25 to 30 for at least 6 months, and then they reevaluate it from there.

Okay. And this is who recommending this?

His, uh, his therapist. Okay. His, uh, doctor. Good. Okay.

Because I'm just wondering if it's a decision, something this big like selling a home and a job change, you know what I mean, all of it, um if this is more short-term versus making long-term decisions, financial decisions. But if you guys are feeling, as I imagine you would, as parents, I could only imagine, just wanting to be present and just having one of us there, knowing that probably the next couple years is gonna just be a road, and our presence is just important, right? And if you feel that from that long-term basis, then that probably would be something to think about.

We make money to do life. Not life to do money, right? And so you got life on you. Mm-hmm. And so I think your decision's wise. I would sell my home and I would pay off all the debt. And if you can buy another home with the remaining money, or a good down payment on a smaller home with the remaining money, that will suffice for a period of time. This decision is not permanent. It is not a forever decision. It's a 2-year decision. What'd you say your wife does for a living?

She's an operations manager for a freight company.

Okay. All right. At night? At night. Okay. All right. And, um, is she, uh, got a 4-year degree in business or something?

She has a 4-year degree. It's in interdisciplinary studies.

Okay. Okay, all right.

But just thinking of it from a career track, if she can plug back in after 3 or 4 years if she needs to.

Yeah, and so we might restart, so to speak, the house journey and the career journeys in a couple of years. And they might look completely different then. And you might have taken a step back, you might have taken a lateral step because you cleared off all this $105,000 worth of miscellaneous crap debt Now, it is incumbent upon you if you do this that you make it work on a budget, no debt ever. And I don't want to hear any excuses about, oh, life is tough and I went into debt. You'll screw this whole thing up if you do that.

Yeah, definitely. I think so. One of the good things is about $45,000 of the debt is the solar panels on the house. Oh, they would take over the lease on that, so that would get rid of that. That immediately.

Yeah, and you would get rid of— and you got the other money in your hand to clear off all the debt. Now you've got no debt except whatever you do for housing. And I would just view the housing— this is not a 10-year decision. This is a 2-year decision. And it's perfectly okay to rent for a short period of time, like 2 years or 3 years, while you're figuring out what life's gonna look like. But at some point, I'm guessing that your wife will plug back into some kind of She'll produce some kind of revenue. Could be work from home. It could be a lot of different things, but it's not for now. For now, we're gonna take care of our baby.

So you think that this is the wisest decision?

Yeah, I would do it, and it's emotional, but here's what I'm guarding against. I'm trying to use certain language with you because I want you to guard against this. This is not a a tornado didn't hit your house. This is a decision to sell one asset to clear the debts, and it's not a permanent decision. This is not a forever deal. This is a— this is— we're going camping in Europe for 2 years. You're not, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I want you to emotionally treat this very temporary because it can feel like, well, we sold the house after we got this diagnosis, and that's gonna be for the next 45 years. It defines us emotionally. You are not the single worst thing or best thing that ever happens to you. You're not defined by that. Those are just milestones along the road. And so I really want you to guard against that because I meet people in these situations that are 5, 6, 7 years later, and they're going, "Well, you know, we got that diagnosis and we had to sell the house and everything's never been the same," because they never recovered emotionally and never put hope hope and light back in their eyes about their future.

Your future is very bright if you want it to be, even inclusive of the things you're facing with this diagnosis. Mm-hmm. And so, I want you to see that. But yeah, in order to get to solid ground and get some of the chaos out of our life, get your wife off of nights, get the debt gone, have the money to take care of the child, yeah, I'm moving down in house. Yep, I will move into a Walmart tent for a short period of time. Right. But it is just that. It's just camping. It's just for a short period of time. And then you don't have to freak out about every little thing. Oh, because otherwise everything that you dislike about the next house is going to be magnified by your emotions because of it. Yeah, because it's going to be some— I mean, it's— you get pissed off about this stuff. All of us do. And so that's what I want you to guard against.

But yes, you will. Not tactically.

This is the thing to do.

Yeah, I was gonna say, you're not going to look up, Matt, in 10 years in years during this season and regret selling a home versus taking care of your kid?

Never.

You may look back and like, we worked our, we were not present, we were not there, we were exhausted, and he struggled for longer probably 'cause we didn't have the capability and the time to put into what he needed to start his journey and get his tools, right? So I'm like, the trade-off isn't even, yeah, it's not even in question. No. It's just a house. Right. It's just a house. Yeah. And, and— But also to your point, important not to be stuck in a loop of that debt will be my emergency fund. Debt will be the thing that catches me if we need more. You know what I mean? Like there has to be a hard stop or you'll dig yourselves back in a financial hole, which will then bring on more stress from the financial side. So this is kind of a ticket in a great way. It's a blessing to be able to even make this decision.

Yeah, I meet people who are facing stuff like this on the air here who have used it to rationalize really dumb decisions. You're doing quite the opposite. Hey guys, George Campbell here. If you run a business, your phone is basically your cash register, and every missed call is money you didn't know you lost. And missed calls, slow replies, customers who moved on before you got back to them, that's not a you problem, that's a system problem. That's where Quo comes in, a sponsor of today's show. Quo, spelled Q-U-O, is the smarter way to run your business communications. Quo helps you and your team share one business number so you can reply faster and stay on top of every customer conversation. Nothing gets missed and every customer gets a response. Because look, you didn't start a business to spend your days playing phone tag and digging through text messages. You're the owner, the operator, and the closer. So you need a system that keeps up with you. QWO works from your phone or computer. It logs calls, summarizes conversations, and gives you next steps. It's like having an assistant who never asks for a raise. So try QWO free, plus get 20% off your first 6 months at quo.com/ramsey. That's quo.com/ramsey. Always say hello with QWO.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, my daughter, is my co-host today. Tiffany is in Cincinnati. Hi Tiffany, how are you?

I'm good, how are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, I was calling to ask, uh, my son, he's 11 years old, came across a baseball card that he's thinking might be worth some money, and his first thought was that he want to sell it and invest, and I don't know where to start with that and how to help him. Yes. Yeah.

What's the card going to be worth?

Well, he saw the same card sell for $4,000 online, whether or not his gets sold for the same amount, we're not sure. Um, but that's what he's hoping.

Or like he was buying packs and one of the, and it just showed up in one of the packs. Yeah.

He bought an old box from an antique store actually and found this card in it. Yeah, this kid is fun. I like it. He's a blast.

Yeah. Okay. Well, Rachel and I wrote a book and we'll send you a copy of it called— it was her first bestseller— called Smart Money Smart Kids. And in that book, we tell people to teach their kids to do 4 things. One is to work, and this is his work for the purposes of this discussion. He's very entrepreneurial. I love him. And two is to save. 3 is to give, and 4 is to enjoy. And all people should learn to do those 4 things with money: work, give, save, and spend wisely. Okay, okay. And so we would tell you to break this up however you guys want across those things. In other words, I would not invest at all. I would give some of it. I would enjoy some of it. He's 11. It's not going to change his life one way or the other. It's not $4 million, it's $4,000. And so the lessons he gets from it will be more valuable than the actual money.

All right, great, thank you.

And break it down that way. Now, if you want to invest more than $1,000, you could sit down with a SmartVestor Pro, and there's some mutual funds that will allow you to open an account for $1,000 or less. I probably would— or more, I mean. I probably would not do that, but if you want to, you can. And here's the reason I wouldn't. The only reason to do it is not the investment, it's to let him have the lesson of how mutual funds work, have the experience of sitting down with an investment professional. Because this kid's kind of got it on the ball. This is a sharp kid. And he's the kind of kid that would enjoy sitting with an adult teacher.

He just bought some baseball cards and he loves to look at some Excel sheets.

And he's in an antique store digging through this. I'm just—

no, I bet he's great.

I'm like, I'm giving him a hard time. No, he, he, he keeps on top of our envelope system with me and he's pretty on it. He's into this kind of thing. He knows.

Well, you know, it's great. We— I have a nephew on my husband's side of the family. We were actually just talking about this the other day because even from an app perspective, you know, looking at the S&P 500 and putting some money and watching it go up and down and you're watching the— I don't know, the whole correlation, I think, is so good to learn around his age. So, for him to have some like visual perspective of the money, if he does, you know, maybe you say, "Hey, for $1,500, let's put it in an index fund or something and we have an app and we can watch, you know, watch it grow." And it loses, you know, $79 one day and up. I don't know, it's just kind of, it's a—

What happens when Trump bombs Iran? It's a fun exercise.

To like see reality, right? And even though we teach investments for the long term and you're not gonna, you know, obviously pull money out and that kind of thing because of what's happening, but for them to have some skin in the game and watching the market at a price like that, I think is great.

But it's all about the lesson. It's not about $1,500 is gonna make him $8 million when he's 65. It actually might, but it probably won't, okay? That's not the reason. No, no, but— But that's some really good thoughts. That's a lot of parenting going on here, and she's a great mom. Hang on, we're gonna send you a copy of that. The other thing that popped into my head was that actually what we did was two things about those subjects. One is, we had your college funds in mutual funds. And so it wasn't your skin in the game, it was ours. But we, by the time you were that age, we would get out and show, "Okay, you have this many shares, and it's worth this much a share." and if you multiply those two numbers, you have the actual value of that mutual fund. And so I've got 100 shares at $100, that's $10,000 worth, okay? So you start to look at that and go, "Okay, $124 a share." And you start to, like you said, they get the lesson of—

Yeah, they're able to see it.

And then the next month we would get the paper statement in those days. We would open it again and show you guys again, this is the college fund. That had the benefit of showing you how a mutual fund works, but also Also, we brainwashed you and said it's your college fund, and so you just assumed you were going to college. So that was a good thing. We didn't have to have a discussion about that. You just always thought you were going, and so you went. It was amazing. And the second thing was we actually did not take any of y'all's money and invest it in anything. Instead, you guys had to buy your own car. Mm-hmm. And so you had your miscellaneous birthday money, children's savings account at the bank. If you worked a little bit and babysat, you put some money in. If you got to hit the lottery on a baseball card, you put some of that money in. And we matched, we had 401, we matched whatever you saved up to buy your first car. And so, you know, if I remember, you saved about $6,000 and $8,000. We got a $16,000 car.

A $16,000 car in those days was not a bad car at all. It was a great car. You got a nice little BMW. Lasted me through most of college. Yeah, a little 323 BMW, and it was a great little car. And so, but that, so that money in Tiffany's question, if it was at the Ramsey household, it would have gone in the car fund. Yes. There would not have been mutual funds. No. Wouldn't have done any of that. No. But we had other ways we were teaching you the market.

To show it and to feel it. Yes.

None of those are wrong answers. That's right. That's right. They're just some of the answers.

Yeah. And I have an 11-year-old, and she's working some this summer. And I actually, we just opened, it was probably 2 weeks ago, with Fairwinds, you can get up to 10 high-yield savings accounts. So, under ours, "So, we opened up another one." I put a little seed money in just to kind of like, "Hey, just make it a little fun." And then, yeah, and we're paying her. She's done some babysitting. She's done a couple of things. She'll come here every now and then to help out. And we do, and I show her as we transfer money into that savings account. But we're talking about the card now, and she's 11. But I'm like, "Girl, you got, yeah." I mean, and if you want one at 15 with your permit to practice, you got 4 years. To save. And so, that jumpstart, Tiffany, for his car, honestly, that could be a— it's a nice jumpstart.

Yeah, not a bad one. And so, moral of the story is, when they're 11, the Ramseys, we send them to the salt mines, and we crack the whip on them. Child labor laws. They have to go to work. We bring them to Ramsey and we work them like dogs.

No.

Not. No, it's a great environment. Everyone's been so kind. She's here today. Helping out, doing some work. It's good, it's good.

Yeah, but yeah, and that's what I mean. This guy, this young guy, his initiative to go to the antique store to scratch around in his hobby is something he's passionate about and digs out this car and legitimately can get some great money doing that. And then thinks he's got a $4,000 hit. That's awesomeness. It'll also make him go do it again. Yes, and again and again and again. In, especially if you get to enjoy some of it and have the joy of giving some of it. Mhm. And so give some away. Always give some away. Money's not much good if you keep it all.

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Hattie is in Denver. Hi, Hattie, how are you?

I'm good, thank God. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, what my husband and I are wondering, if there's ever a reason to take out a business loan if you feel feel that it would be paid back by the business in a succinct amount of time. Um, we've fully paid for— like, we're debt-free and we're working on paying off our house. Good. And I run a small, um, niche religious home daycare, and it's the only one of its kind in the state that's Montessori. And I can only take 4 children for legal reasons. But if we were able to do construction, um, and finish the— to code all issues. I'd be able to take up to 12 children, which could be conservatively $8,000 a month and higher if, you know, if I filled all those 12 spots. I currently have a waitlist with 9 kids on it, and so we're just wondering if we took out— um, the construction cost, sorry, is $25,000 to $30,000. So if we took out a loan for that, that could be paid off within 3 to 6 months, would that make sense for us? Mm-hmm.

Um, I don't borrow money and I don't teach people to borrow money, especially in business, because it represents risk. The way you've outlined this makes it sound very, very reasonable, but you've only outlined it if it works. You didn't outline it if it doesn't work. If the contractor's a crook and it gets delayed 8 months and it takes forever if you get ripped off, if you get sick, if one of the kids gets sick and you get sued. You haven't thought about any of the things that happen to all of us in business every day. There's 3 rules of business. One is it takes twice as long as you think it's going to, it costs twice as much as you think it's going to, and you're not the exception. Those are the 3 rules. And they happen to me, they happen to you, they happen to anybody that's in business. And so, you know, it could unfold the way the way you designed it, but I doubt it will. Not because I'm a pessimist, not because I'm cynical, but because I've run a business for 35 years, and it never works exactly like I freaking think it's going to work, ever.

And so, and I have a great idea in the shower every morning, and most of my ideas suck. By the time I get them to market, I lose money on 90% of them. And, but I've made really good money on the other 10%, so it's all worked out. I want you to grow your business. I love your business. I like what you're doing. I think all of that's good. I just don't want you to put it in jeopardy for $25,000.

Um, how much savings do y'all have? Yeah, so, well, okay, so yeah, we have about $25,000 in savings, which is our 3 to 6 months of expenses. But my husband was very nervous to use that. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. He— and what is your household income now? So we make about $9,700 a month. Um, I do have— I took on a weekend job to try to make some more money that it brings in an extra $1,000 a month. We've started to save for the construction.

And how, what does it take to operate your household?

Um, Um, we're pretty close. We do send our kids to private school, a religious private school, and we don't want to cut the money there.

Um, and I'll operate your household.

Yeah, we're, we're about $9,500. Why? What's your house payment? So I said the private school fees, our mortgage is $3,100, which we don't think is so bad for our area. Um, that matches even renting in this area. Um, and but our school fees are the biggest expense for our kids. How much are they? It's about, uh, $2,000 a kid per month.

$4,000 a month. $50,000. Yeah, yeah, it's a fine school. It's a very expensive school. Yeah, it is. It's not just religious, it's expensive. There's lots of religious. Yeah. It's an expensive religious school. Very. Not very.

No, it is. Well, compared to Nashville private—

$50,000 a year.

Well, for 2 kids in private school Nashville, that's what it runs.

Anyway, I'm not suggesting you take them out. It's more than your house payment. So you just need to— you really do value this. And she runs a daycare with it. So it's obviously a core part of their Yeah, yeah. So what I'm trying to figure— what I'm trying to figure out is, is there a way I can take $15,000 of the $25,000 and add another $10,000 while construction's underway out of my cash flow?

So yeah, because we can add about $1,000 a month, but we were saying by the time you wait a year and a half—

No, I'm thinking I want to wait a year and a half. I'm gonna start construction If I've got a way to get to the 10 by the time the construction's complete, how long does it— how long is the estimation on completing the construction? 6 weeks. 6 weeks.

It's not a big project, it's just, it's silly things like an emergency escape window, flooring, drywall.

It's like very— how many bids have you gotten on the construction?

I got 3. Okay, so the lowest Lowest was closer to $25,000. The highest was closer to $40,000. So I'm averaging $30,000 based on like, you know, what everybody's doing. I don't think $25,000 would be realistic because, as you said, it always costs more than you think.

What we would do at the Ramsey House is we would use some of the emergency money down maybe to $10,000, maybe $15,000 of it, and we would find the other $15,000 very, very quickly by drastically cutting stuff in our monthly budget because we would want to do this. This. And we would not go out to eat, we would not go on vacation, we would sell some stuff that was laying around. We'd look up and go, I don't need that over there, I don't need that over there. And you're— you're 7? Yeah, yeah, that's right. Okay, but I'm gonna do anything I can to get my income up and my outgo down and cash flow it and maybe get this done. But no, I'm not gonna tell you to borrow money. I'm gonna beg you not to. To. You're gonna make much— many more mistakes when you borrow money. And we coach about 10,000 small businesses through EntreLeadership, and I always teach those men and women in those businesses that when you take your next idea and you borrow into it, you magnify the size of your mistake. You magnify the drama. You magnify everything. And it's so weird heard that when you're dealing with a contractor with money out of savings, you handle the contract different, contractor different, than you handle it if you're using the bank's money.

Because it's like real freaking money. It's very emotional. And so all of those are reasons to— the borrower is slave labor.

Flooring options are very different. When you're like, eh, is it like $5,000 or $6,000 more? That's fine. With the loan perspective, it's like, okay, maybe we can, this, that. $5,000 or $6,000 in this is like, heck no, we have a tightened up budget. Nope, get the cheaper floor, right? Like, it limits your options in a good way and helps you make those decisions.

Yeah, and what of this can I do to get to the increased capacity? And then what of this was luxury?

Like, what do I really have to have?

What portion of this rehab do I have to have to function.

It sounds like she's done her work too. I'm not questioning.

I'm just saying, that's the kind of stuff I'm gonna do. I'm gonna minimal functional.

And also your business is daycare, which is always needed all the time. So if you, you know, if you couldn't get all of this done in the next 6 to 9 months, because you're saving and moving it to cash, it's gonna be okay. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you're gonna be able to recoup that money because there will always be a market.

Yeah. For daycare. You'll always have a waiting list. Yeah.

And the fact that it is so It's kind of a one-of-a-kind type of daycare is the way you explained it with the— she mentioned the religious piece, the Montessori piece, all of that together is great. It makes you unique. You're not just another one out there. And I think that's awesome.

You'll always have a waiting list. Yeah, you'll always be able to do that. But I promise you, you will not regret going a little bit slower and doing this with real money. You won't regret it. It's harder, but it's easier. It's much easier in the long haul. It's much more sustainable. Your business will be open 5 years from now. You won't be calling me up going, tell me some contractor story or something I don't want to hear.

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Have you, have you switched your example of if they play bridge because mom plays bridge now? So is that what makes you think You know, mahjong or bridge?

I've got these things stuck in my head from random locations.

I was gonna say, mom goes on like—

Uncle Charlie goes to church with you or whoever it is.

Yeah, you added bridge. I was like, is that a slight against mom?

That's a no-no. No, it's just, yeah, but you don't want to pick— But she does tournaments. My wife's bridge partner is not how I pick a real estate agent. Not a chance. Or mahjong. They're good with math, but that doesn't mean they need to be my real estate agent. All right. Jerry is in Atlanta.

Hi Jerry, how are you? Hey, how are you doing? I'm good. Good. How can we help? Um, well, I am $55,000 in debt and I'm trying to figure out a way to get out of it and I don't make enough to cover it.

How much do you make?

Uh, a month fluctuates between $1,200 to $2,200 a month.

Why? What do you do?

Uh, right now I work delivery gigs. Why?

Why don't you get a job? I had a job.

Um, so I've been in the restaurant business for 12 years.

You've been in the what business? I'm sorry, what business? Restaurant business.

Working restaurant? What were you doing at the restaurant? Uh, I worked at Papa John's. I worked at Fellini. I know.

What did you do at the restaurant?

Oh, Uh, chef, cook, uh, dishwasher, uh, front house, back house. How old are you? I am 36 years old.

Okay. All right. So your problem is an income problem. I think you already knew that before you called, right? Correct. You don't make any money. You're at the poverty level. And that's not a put-down. It's not. It's a mathematical observation. So what are we going to do to fix that?

And then we fix the other thing. Well, the hope was to better my career, so I went into automotive and I became a certified parts specialist. And so then I worked my way through there, 6 years of that, and I got a job working with U-Haul, and that was great. And I think it was like $2,400, $2,500 a month um, just enough to pay my bills, pay my rent and everything. Um, and then I was told there's other jobs out there that can make more— $1,200 a week versus $650 a week. Um, so he got in touch with me, so other people, and I got in touch with them, and they told me that they would have a job for me available, um, as long as I had a truck available to use of my own. And that's what I did. I went ahead and pushed the gun for it and got it in the truck. And now I don't have either one of those jobs. So how did you—

you were recruited by somebody who promised you something that wasn't true, right?

I think it was true. It's just the economy the way it is, gas went up. And as I, I— last time I talked to him, he said he was having the make these deliveries himself. So he picks up motorcycles and sells them.

Yeah, he promised you something that wasn't true, honey. You didn't make them— you didn't make the money you were promised for whatever reason. Okay, so let's go back to where we started and say, where can we land now after that mistake? Because that was a mistake. So now where do we to go make $3,000, $4,000, $5,000 a month. What do we got to do? And you guys, so you're certified parts specialist. Does that set you up to work at AutoZone or whatever?

It does. Um, and what does that pay?

$35 an hour?

Actually, AutoZone doesn't pay that much. Well, they pay $16 to $17 an hour.

Well, you can make more than that without a certification at Target. $20 an hour is a going rate at Target, just working over there moving boxes around, you know.

So, or UPS or something, I don't know, Jerry, is there just anything that you can just plug into?

So what I want you to— the answer to your question is you have an income problem, not a debt problem. Your debt problem is the result of your income problem, and you're not making enough to even get by. And, and you've defaulted back into this for some reason and have accepted it. And I don't want you to accept it anymore. I want you to get mad and scratch and claw and go get 6 jobs where all you do is work all the time until you get your head above water. And then you try to get a good job out of those 6 jobs, and you keep working and working and working until you move somewhere. And I want you to aim at something to where when you're 46, 10 years from now, you're making $7,000 a month minimum. Now what is that? What is the trek? What is the journey that takes you there step by step by step? You're probably not gonna jump from where you are to there in one leap, but you can begin the steps, the certifications, the thought process.

I mean, the auto industry in general, mechanic, all of that, I'm like, you can, you can get a lot, do a lot Pays very well.

In that sector. Yeah, yeah. And so, and it pays— AutoZone, whatever they pay, pays more than you're getting. So that's not a bad step. But I don't know what a certified parts guy person is able to do. I don't know how that works. But I assume you work in a parts department at a Chevrolet dealership, you would make more than you're making now, and maybe more than you would make at AutoZone. I don't I don't know, but that's what I'm going to start looking at, and I'm going to start looking at that like every minute of every day. You don't have time to do anything else except that. You are starving to death, and so go get you some food. That's what this comes down to: a healthy level of desperation, urgency. And, um, and, and then, you know, and then once you land in something, be very careful when someone promises you the moon. Someone who delivers motorcycles promises you the moon.

Well, and my fear is when he said, if you have a truck, and I don't know if the $55,000 is a truck loan for the job that he had to have, but making sure you stay financially secure, Jerry, in these transitions is important too. So any certification or anything, you cash flow it.

If you have a big truck loan like Rachel mentioned, sell it. Now. All right, Casey's with us in Pittsburgh. Hey Casey, what's up?

Hi, thanks for having me. Sure. So my question is, my husband and I are on Baby Steps 5 and 6. Good. We got a little bit of a late start to saving for college. So we have 2 kids, they're 10 and 8, and we really just started. So we threw like $2,500 in each of their 529s. Mm-hmm. But we currently are paying an extra $500 a month on our mortgage so we can drop it from 30 years to 20 years. So I just wanted to get your take on how much should— should we be really throwing all of our extra money at our kids' college to fund like a 4-year in-state tuition, or should we keep splitting it where we're putting an extra $500 on the house and then throwing everything extra at the kids' college?

Have you guys mapped out tuition rates and what this $2,500 will be in 8 to 10 years?

Yeah, so putting it into the calculator, essentially, to get to pay for 4 years of in-state in Pennsylvania, we would have to put like $1,500 in for each of them per month, every single month.

Yeah, which isn't going to be realistic, right?

That's not realistic. That's right.

So yeah, I mean, what I would do is fund as much as you can with the reality of knowing you may slow down your house, paying it off fully just to get some more money in. But then also remember scholarships, grants, working through college, cash flowing it maybe as they are in it as well are all the options.

But then living at home and going to community college the first 2 years is an option too.

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Jamie is with us in Indianapolis. Hi Jamie, how are you? Good, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, I need massive help help on budgeting, how to get through it, and how to keep from spending kind of out of control.

Okay, is the, is the out of control spending because you can't stop, or you feel like the life you guys have created, or you've created, is needing a higher dollar amount because of payments and all of it? Okay, how much do you guys make a month?

Um, it's just my husband working. He's a truck driver. He makes roughly $5,000, $5,200. Okay, and that's what he brings home?

That's what hits your account every month? Yeah. Okay. Um, what's your mortgage payment?

Um, we don't own a house, we rent. Okay. I'm afraid to buy a house just yet. Okay.

Uh, how much is rent? $1,200. Okay, yeah, that's reasonable. Um, what kind of debt do you guys have?

Um, we have like 4 credit cards. We owe some stuff on like bills, like we like didn't pay, so we have to pay those. And then we owe to like Verizon, then we have medical debt, and then I have student loans, and then car.

How much does it all add up to?

Around $24,000. How much is the car? The car, it's $8,219, but it was from a couple years ago, so it's gotten repoed since then. Like, I haven't had it in a few years.

So you're— you don't have a car payment right now?

You're repaying it? No, after I started listening to you guys, I will not do a car payment.

Okay, so you You, but you don't have a payment now. You have an $8,000 repo. All right. Yes. And, um, okay. What are, how much is your student loans?

Um, $7,100. Okay. All right.

Are you paying payments on those or are they in default? Are they in default?

They're in default. Uh, probably like a month or two ago, I tried calling and going on the website and the girl kept telling me I had to wait because it wasn't in their system them yet, so they couldn't tell me if they could bring them out of default or I could start making payments.

What bills are you behind? You made a comment that there's still bills.

Oh, okay. So these are bills from like other like places we've lived. Right now we're not necessarily behind on our bills, but like these that we owe within debt is like Progressive, Duke, And I think that's it. Yeah, those are the only two. And Verizon.

Okay, so it sounds like you got like 8 or 9, 10 bills floating around between all of that and the debt payments. Yeah. Okay, how much a month is going to all of that?

To the debt payments? Mm-hmm. Okay, right now, 'cause we do have an active credit card, my husband is trying to pay that off, but the interest on it is so much much, it like isn't hardly going down.

How many kids have you got? Two. And you don't work outside the home? No. I—

How old are your kids? One is about to turn 7. He is in school. The other one is— will turn 5 in December, but I'm trying to get him into an all-day preschool next year or this year so that I can work. Yeah. So I can work during the morning.

Okay, so let me tell you what I think I'm hearing, and you can correct me if you want to. It won't hurt my feelings, okay? Okay. It sounds like you all are completely freaking clueless. You have no idea where your money's going. $5,200 comes in, you aren't paying payments on the student loans, you aren't paying payments on the repo, you aren't paying payments on hardly anything except one tiny little Visa card, and you can't even seem to pull that off. You have no idea idea where your money's going. Does that sound accurate? It's very chaotic and very stressful. Does that sound accurate?

Yeah, you're about like 100% spot on. Okay.

So how does she build a budget from that, Rachel?

Yeah, well, Jamie, I would sit down and look at where your most— where the highest dollar amount of expenses is going. So you can look category-wise, look back the last couple of months and just see food, Is it restaurants? Is it random, you know, moments of shopping? Is it Amazon? Like, where is it all going? And then you have to make a realistic budget to say, "Hey, the way we've been living isn't working," which you feel that, you feel the chaos. And then to say, "Okay, in order to have a level of control and this peace that you're looking for is that detailed plan that's going to strip back a lot of it." profit. So, I would go down the main categories. We'll get you EveryDollar for a year. The premium one. The premium version, that'll attach to your checking account, Jamie. But I want you guys to walk through these categories and really say, "Okay, if we had to limit it," and we say beans and rice, rice and beans here at Ramsey, or if it's ramen, whatever it is, but cheap, cheap groceries, no out to eat, nothing. That's the food category. What can we barely scrape by to make sure we still have food?

And then you just kind of go down the list.

And I bet, Jamie— Food is first.

Lights and water, Yeah, your four walls. Yeah, food, shelter, utilities, transportation.

Pay this reasonable rent.

Stay current on the bills. And then I— see, $2,000 will do all that. And I was gonna say, I bet you will find $1,500 to $2,000 after you live on nothing. You delete Amazon, you do nothing. Literally no spending money, no life.

Yes, you're broke. And when you get real radical like that, You're smart enough. After talking to you, you're way too smart to be this broke, but you're just disorganized and chaotic, and you can fix that. So you sit down with this EveryDollar budget. We're gonna give it to you when you get off the phone, and then you send a— send the link to your husband. Is he on the road?

Um, yeah. Or is he in town? No, he's on the road.

Yeah, send the link to him. Download this. You and me are gonna look at this. We're going to decide what we are going to do with $5,000 this coming month, and then we're by God gonna stick to it because I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Okay, that's one thing. So I started reading one of your books, The Complete Guide to Money, and, um, I try to like— okay, it says in the book don't bring up your name as like a— oh, you said this, Dave Ramsey said that, right? Um, so I try not to because I've done that in the past and he didn't like that.

Well, what I don't like if I'm you is being broke. And so, Bubba, who's out there driving a truck, you're gonna freakin' do this or your life's gonna be miserable because I'm gonna make it miserable. I don't care what Dave Ramsey says. I'm tired of living like this. We're going to fix this, Bubba. This is you talking, not Dave Ramsey says or the book says or there's an intellectual discussion here. I'm sick and tired I'm tired of my sucky life and we're going to fix it. And you're gonna quit spending like you're in Congress on the road and I'm gonna quit spending like we're in Congress back home and we're gonna get in control. Like your life depended on it because it does. You gotta get, the two of you are gonna have to get passionate. I don't really give a crap what Dave Ramsey thinks. That doesn't even matter. It shouldn't even enter into the discussion. But you know, you guys have got to get upset enough about this to attack it, both of you. And as long as you just dance around and go, "Well, I can't figure out how to do this," you're gonna not do nothing.

There's always a reason to do nothing and be broke. Look around America. Everyone in America does nothing and is broke. And they're sitting on their thumbs. And meanwhile, you can fix your life here. You can go do this. You're smart enough to do it. But, you know, and Bubba's gonna come along. He ain't got a choice. He gets out there bringing home the bacon driving, good, grind those gears, man. Send me a check and quit spending it. We're about to do this. Get it done. And you guys gotta start having a discussion with that kind of thing, not where we're mad at each other, but where we're mad at this status quo, this mediocrity, and we're not gonna live in it anymore.

Yeah, and it's gonna build a whole new set of habits for you guys, Jamie, 'cause you probably have been used to being like, "Well, the kids need that, just get it, this or that." it's gonna change completely, which it should. You should have a 180 response to everything to get a completely different result of what you guys have been doing. Keep doing what you've been doing, but getting what you want. It's gonna feel different. And it's gonna be hard. It's gonna be hard, but I tell you, that hard is much easier to push through than the hard of sitting of what you've been doing and sitting in that stress. And so there is freedom on the other side of peace and control and margin. You just have to control that ego. Income, and that means usually saying no to yourself.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Andrew is in Dayton, Ohio. Hi Andrew, how are you?

I'm well, Dave, how are you? Thanks for taking my call. Sure, how can we help? So my question is, should I go into debt with my father to double my income? So a little bit of background—

How long you been listening to this show?

A little over a year, and me and my wife are on Baby Step 4 now. So what are we gonna say? I know, but it's tough because, so here's a little bit of backstory. Me and my dad work together and he owns semi-trucks and I drive this truck currently. It's worth about $64,000. And he told me that he would sell it to me on interest-free payments of $2,000 a month for 1 year. And that would double my income. So I'm at a bit of a crossroads.

Why do you have to buy it from him? Can you not just rent it or use it?

Well, that's what I do now, but you know, I would go from— I make about 30% of every load right now to 72% if I actually own the truck myself.

Gotcha. Why? Because he pays for it, probably.

Yeah, yeah. Who's gonna— who's booking your loads? Him. Is he going to continue to after you buy the the truck?

Yeah, that's why he gets that 28%. So I would make— right now he gets it for booking it or for owning it? Well, right, right now I make 30%, so he gets that 70% for booking and owning the truck. If I own the truck, I would get 72%, and then he would—

oh, 28% for booking it. I see.

Yeah, and using his trailer and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, sounds like a no-brainer till the thing blows close.

Uh, yeah, that's, that's the other thing.

Sounds like a no-brainer until diesel doubles because the Strait of Hormuz is shut down. It sounds like a no-brainer until Trump decides to bomb somebody else and screw up the oil supply. It sounds like a no-brainer until— see, you're projecting a perfect future, and that's the only way this makes sense, and perfect futures don't exist in business.

Yeah, I mean I mean, that's, that's definitely fair, but I—

No, that's the truth. That's not just fair. That's the world you live in. The world I live in. Now the question is whether you're going to admit it or not.

Yeah, no, don't do it.

No, don't do this. This is crazy. Crazy and crud. Don't do it. Your dad owns the truck free and clear? Yes. I have a counter proposal. Okay. I will rent it from you for $2,000 a month. Month. That goes towards ownership. That goes towards ownership.

Well, that's, that's essentially what he would be doing.

No, this is essentially different because if things go sideways, he still owns the truck and you don't. That's different if the dadgum engine blows, honey. And guess what? Engines blow in trucks. Brakes go bad in trucks. Transmissions go out in trucks. Y'all wear them out, man. You run the road with them. You've not accounted for any of those things in this scenario. So if you want to rent his truck and him sell it to you for a dollar after you've accumulated the— it's $2,000 a month for— until it got to what, how many thousand?

$64,000 a Well, that's what it's worth, but he said he would give it to me for $24,000, so one year of $2,000 off the top. Oh, okay.

So I'll rent it to you for $2,000— I'll rent it for $2,000 a month for one year, and you sell it to me for a dollar. Same thing to him, right?

Uh, yeah, fair enough.

But the truck is his. It's not yours. Until the purchase price.

And if the world falls apart, you don't owe your dad $24,000.

$24,000. Yeah, that was the kind of second part of my question is, is, uh, us being on Baby Step 4. Um, I mean, I, I have the money to buy it free and clear with that $24,000, but basically it would leave me with really nothing left.

Oh, so that's your emergency fund?

Yeah, right. But how much do you make?

How much do you make a month, Andrew?

Uh, about $6,000, but if I bought it, it would be around $12,000. Are you married? Yes. What does she make? Um, she's a part-time nurse. She makes about $3,000 a month.

And you've got kids? Uh, yes, 3. Okay. And what do you drive during the day?

Uh, like as my personal vehicle? Uh-huh. Uh, paid off truck. Worth what? Uh, probably about $10,000. Huh.

Okay. Uh, reduce your emergency fund to $10,000, sell your truck, and pay your dad cash for the truck. I would do that. Okay.

And then double your—

You're not going to do that. All of a sudden this idea doesn't sound so good. I just sold his truck.

Yeah, but if he does doubles his income, like what he's saying. Yeah, it's worth it. It's worth it. $10,000. $10,000 in 2 months.

It's worth it till I sold his truck. Drive a $500 truck because you're not driving it anyway. You're driving a semi, honey. And go pay cash for this sucker. Oh, but now, now we got down to it. See, borrowing is now a convenience in this discussion, not the only way to expedite the idea. So you can either rent the truck for 1 year and buy it for a dollar, but I wouldn't. I'd pay cash for it and start making my money now. And I'd sell your truck.

Yeah, be a one-car family for 3 months.

I'll get you a $500 hoopty. Yeah, whatever. Well, I mean, for 1 month and get you a $5,000 truck. I don't care. It's not gonna be much different. But yeah, the voice tone changed.

Awesome.

Jack is with us. Jack's in Jacksonville. How are you, Jack? Good, how are you doing? Better than I deserve.

What's up? Hey, so I've got a question about my retirement. I got to make a decision which direction I want to go with it. So I'm currently on a 401 plan. I work in public safety, uh, and that plan, they're matching, uh, 25% into it, and I have to contribute a mandatory 10%, so 35% of what I make. The option I have to go to starting next year would be a state retirement, which is more defined benefit versus contribution. Retirement age is about the same. I already have 5 years on the state retirement from a previous job. So I'm trying to figure out which way to go. I think I can retire okay both ways, but I don't want to make a million-dollar mistake.

It would be about that. So you stay with the 401. Why won't they have— why don't they have 401 as well? To?

Um, it's just because of the— since I work for a city, they had a city pension, then they switched it to 401, and then they'll give everybody a one-time chance to go to state retirement next year, or yeah, stay on the 401.

If you put $500,000 or $1 million in this, or you put some money in it and it grows to $500,000 or $1 million and you die, your heirs get the money. If you go all state retirement, nobody gets the money but the state when you die.

You die. Okay, yeah, but right now it's got $163,000 in it in 5 years, and that's all gone when you die, right?

If you put it in the state, if you put it in the state. So I'd do the 401. I also would look into personal Roth IRAs and see how much of this I can roll and how quickly I can roll it to Roths and let it grow from here. But we always take a private plan over a pension because when you die, you lose the pension. And the private plan, the million dollars or half million dollars or whatever you've gotten in there by then, you don't lose it when you die. And it makes more in the open market than it, than it does with a pension. You should not feel uncertain about investing, and you don't have to. That's why we created Investing Essentials, a 2-night virtual event where George Campbell and I walk you through my playbook for investing. Investing and Wealth Planning. We'll simplify everything from 401s and mutual funds to passing on wealth so you can invest with confidence. Tickets start at $199. Get yours today at ramsaysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes. Okay. Our question of the day is sponsored by Yrefi. If missed private student loan payments are keeping you from making progress toward your goals, Yrefi may be able to help help you explore refinancing with a low fixed rate and a payment you can manage.

Visit yrefy.com/ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y, dot com, slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states.

Today's question comes from Ava in Massachusetts. She said, I'm 23 years old and have just graduated from college. I have $25,000 in stocks and $3,000 in cash. I have no debt and will start a job I'm going to make $130,000 a year with a potential of $30,000 in bonuses. I would like to finance a new Tesla Model Y, Dave's favorite car, side note. Just kidding. Out the door, the car's going to be $53,000. I was given a rate of 2% APR if I put down $23,000, and the monthly payment would be $442 for 72 months. Obviously, the smarter decision is to buy a used Tesla with cash than to borrow the money. Buy the Model Y in a few years. But I've been obsessing about this for several months now, and I want to get in if I can. How stupid is this decision?

Really?

Extremely. Is it 'cause it's a Tesla, Dave? No. The way she's going about it.

It's the whole other thing. The whole idea is stupid. I'm not kidding, I know. Number one mistake people make when they graduate from college, buy a new car. I've been driving my high school college car and it's a hoopty and now I make big money and so I'm gonna prove I'm a graduated adult and you go buy a stupid brand new car. A new car loses 75% of its value in the first 4 years. Teslas are worse than that. Go look at a 4 or 5-year-old Tesla and figure— and look at how much they've gone— go down in value.

Yeah, buy that Buy the 4 and 5-year-old.

No, don't. What? The technology is a disaster. No, it's not. Yes, it is. You can't even reboot them. No. What are you talking about? Anyway, don't buy. No. Listen, I am a Tesla owner. I know. George just gave that car away to get rid of it.

He did not. What are you talking about? God. That is not true. Dave just hates electric cars.

Electric cars. No, I hate the value.

He hates electric cars.

Yeah, the value's dropped. I do hate electric cars, but I hate the value drop.

So, if you're gonna— yeah, so, if you're gonna go buy one, go buy a used one, so you don't take the hit.

On any car. On any car. And don't finance it. If you have to finance it, you can't buy it, and it shouldn't be more than half your annual income. And if you can't pay cash, don't buy it. And, you know, and buy a used car unless you have at least a million-dollar net worth. And quit obsessing over new cars. That's gonna make you broke the rest of your life. —life. Yes.

Yeah, what's the— you say the phrase all the time, "Car payments is what keeps you—" Middle class. Middle class. 100%. Because if you invest— the car payment really is, it's the borrowing, paying interest on something that's going down in value, all really for a status type of life is really what you're trying to buy. You want the comfort and the look of it and how it makes you feel. And if you invested that car payment, over the course of your life. I mean, it's millions of dollars that you're giving to the bank or the car dealer versus you. And so, the financing of the cars, not smart. And our millionaire study, what the top 5 brands of cars that the average millionaire drives: Ford, Toyota, Honda, Chevy, and Lexus.

That's it. So— I miss Tesla.

Well, I missed a wrap Raptor. So, I'm sorry. That's a Ford. Or whatever you drive. Whatever you drive.

I got two Fords. I paid cash. I paid cash. And a Chevy.

I paid cash. No, but for real though, the car, it is, that's where people get in the most trouble from a financial perspective. So, yeah, I would, Ava, I'm sorry, girl. You can get it eventually, but save up and pay cash. Pay used and buy used until you have a million-dollar net worth, then you financially can take the hit of a new car, if that's what you choose to do. So, we're not against new and nice cars. We're not against those. But you have to be smart about it, and you can't—

you need to have a million-dollar net worth.

You have to be able to afford it.

Yeah. Because they go down in value too fast. $442 from age 23 to age 65 in a decent growth stock mutual fund is $4.7 million.

And that's not Dave Math. It really is. You just pulled that out.

No, I just used the calculator.

I know, I know. Just clarifying.

The financial calculator on Ramsey.com, okay? RamseySolutions.com. So yeah, so $5 million, that's what that Tesla decision is gonna cost you. That's what I meant by earlier when I said extremely stupid. Yeah, don't do it. Don't do it. Pay cash for whatever you buy and don't buy a new car unless you have a million-dollar net worth. And all the things you own with wheels and/or motors and/or batteries added up in value together should not equal more than half your annual income. And please go look at the 5-year-old version of whatever it is you're thinking about and watch how much they went down in value. Yes. Particularly items that are a new model of any kind, including Tesla. But so if Ford comes out with a new body style—

Wagoneers with Jeep did the same thing. Yeah, exactly. That whole thing. I mean, those went down real bad. They suck. Yeah, real bad in value.

Wagoneer is one of the worst on depreciation. It even beat Tesla. And so it's horrible. And so just go look at how much they go down. I mean, it's just ridiculous. And the reason is that an 8-year-old Tesla, people are worried about whether they have to buy a $10,000 battery and the car is not worth $10,000. And that's the truth. That's why George had trouble moving that car. He almost got stuck in it.

Yeah, but you just said he gave it away for free.

Well, he didn't give it away for free, but that he had trouble getting rid of an ancient Tesla. Antique Teslas are not gonna be running around. I have an antique Corvette, but there won't be any antique Teslas, okay? They won't survive that long. So it won't make it. So the battery won't last that long. It's gonna be sitting over there in a flower, being a flower box somewhere.

I'm telling you, in 15 years, you never know what's gonna happen.

We'll see, we'll see. Maybe they'll invent a technology to revive them and reboot them, but that would be great. But in the meantime, Old ones aren't doing well on the market, regardless of whether we have a discussion about whether I like them or not. Doesn't matter. But they're not doing well in the market. So no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Number one mistake people make when they come out of college. Buy a brand new car on payments. Don't do it.

I'll see you at the gas station, Dave.

Oh wait, I don't have to. Oh wait, that's because you're plugging in on my building and getting free fuel. I am, that's right. I still don't understand that. I don't have any gas tanks here at Ramsey Solutions. All of us that drive gas cars don't get free gas, but all you people that get electric cars get to plug into my building for free.

And we thank you for that.

And that way, you get to go home later. And I paid for that fuel, but I didn't pay for all the other team members' fuel. I don't know. You own the building. That's, yeah, I think I'm— do they make little things where you have to charge charge? You have to pay? Yes, I bet they do. I need to put pay down. Let people pay for their own.

Stop that. No.

Well, I mean, I have to pay for my own gas. Kelly's got to pay for her own gas.

Joe pays for his own gas. Y'all, come on now. This is 2026. 2026. That's what it is. Oh, yeah.

No, I missed the equity in this. I'm just losing it. Too funny, y'all. Too funny. So we have me driving a truck and Deloney driving a truck and Rachel and George driving Teslas. And Jade just got a new, really nice car. I won't disclose it, because it's not my story to tell. That would be unfair. But she just did really well. But it's not electric. So, us gas eaters, us gas burners got you 3 to 2 right now.

Me and George. You and George. We're kindred spirits. That's why we do Smart Money Happy Hour together. We get each other.

That's it. That's it. We get each other. Hey, I don't care. I actually, the truth is, we joke about this so much that I've gotten so much hate mail on it, it's hilarious. But I actually do think, I think the Tesla is a phenomenal piece of technology. I really, it's a lot of fun. I'm just not an early adopter on cars, and I'm still waiting on them to come out with the app with the loud muffler, because I need a loud muffler. I'm a redneck. He's so redneck. Redneck needs a loud muffler. I need a loud muffler.

Can't take that southern out of him, y'all.

I need a cam that goes, "Brum, brum, brum, brum." truck to feel, feel good. That's it. That's it. Whatever. Compensating. Whatever it is. I don't know. Whatever it is, I'm still doing it all. I still love the vroom vroom. It's still the best.

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Smartvestor. People ask me how we made millions in investing, and so we created a 2-night virtual event to walk you through how I have done it, what my playbook is in real estate and in mutual funds, and how I chose not to put money in X, Y, or Z, all of the other things that are out there floating around that people ask about. So we're gonna unpack what not to do and what I have done. If you're interested in that, we've only done this 2 times, and it's called Investing Essentials. It's George Campbell and I. We're gonna be doing another one September September 1st and 2nd, and it's the only place I go through this playbook, all the nerding out and everything on the wealth planning. And we're also going to add some new content this time on reducing taxes on high, high net worth individuals and navigating wills and how to build a lasting legacy and dealing with wealth in the family. All of that will be woven into Investing Essentials. Tickets start at $199. That's $199. Get yours today at ramsaysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on the podcast or on YouTube.

Dave is in New York.

Hi Dave, how are you? Blessed by the best, and yourself? Just the same.

How can we help?

I am about to inherit $2 million and And I don't really know what to do.

Wow. How old are you?

So 40. Wow. Okay.

What's your net worth today?

Um, about $150,000. Good.

And what's your, um, and what's your income today?

My wife and I, we make about $90,000 a year. Uh, we are missionaries.

Okay. All right. Okay. Well, that's a good framework on the way to view it. And it'll help you. It's helped me a lot as my wealth has built over the years. And it'll help you too. And that's the framework is looking at this through a spiritual lens. And so in the Christian world, we often call the management of God's money stewardship. You've heard that, I'm sure. Yeah, and we are Christian. Yeah, and you said missionary, so I assumed. And so if I am a steward, that's not technically a Christian term. It's technically an Old English term that means manager. You're a manager of $2 million. That's different than I became an owner of $2 million. It sits on your heart a different way. Totally. It's lighter, for one thing, not as heavy. It's heavier if you're the owner, it's lighter if you're the manager. Um, and then it also keeps my perspective on I have a job to do, and, uh, that is I am not up to speed, which is why you're calling, because you're very wise. I'm not up to speed on how to handle, how to manage this much money. I've never done it before.

I'm a new a rookie, and so what does a rookie do? Well, they get the playbook and they start trying to figure out what to do, and that's what you're doing, so good. The Bible also says, "In the multitude of counsel there's safety." And so you're gathering counsel by calling here, and I will tell you to put together your counsel. Your counsel needs a CPA in it that does taxes. Your counsel needs a good insurance person, a broker that not selling you investment life insurance, insurance, but that just has all of your things that you need to have insured, insured properly. You probably need a real estate person in your corner. You definitely need a financial advisor. SmartVestorPros@RamseySolutions.com I recommend. The tax advisors that are Ramsey Trusted at Ramsey Solutions I recommend. But in each of these cases, you put together a group of people in these different parts of money, and they all need to have the heart of a teacher. Because God did not give them the $2 million to manage. He gave it to you, and it's your job to learn from them. The good news is it's not rocket science. You can learn, man.

You can learn it, okay? It's going to be very basic understanding of some of these investments, and then you're going to invest some of God's money, you're going to give some of God's money, you're going to enjoy enjoy some of God's money. These are all biblical things to do. You can invest some of it in generosity into the kingdom, which is what you've spent your life doing. And so that's going to be— that part will be easy for you. But even if you were like at the Ramsey Family Foundation, when we're picking a ministry to financially support, we vet them for how wise they're doing, how wise they're operating the ministry. Yeah, because we're investing God's money into that ministry. And so if we're investing money into a company, we vet the company to see how well it's run. Same thing with this. And so you're going to do all of that.

I have a question for your, like, your just day-to-day life. What does that look like? Are you guys renters or do you have kids? Are they in school? Like, kind of what's your, your rhythm right now with life?

Yeah. So no kids. We're both 40 and we are currently renting. From family members. Okay. Currently, we do have a heart to buy a home. And currently, apart from the $2 million that is coming up, we are currently underfunded. Living in New York, it's extremely expensive. And, you know, missions-wise, what we do, we are are roughly around $2,000 to $3,000 a month short. Now, we, um, the way we've done that is we've done like end-of-year fundraising. So in our organization, we actually do have a little bit of a nest egg, and we draw from that each month. Good. Continue to do that.

Yeah, yeah. I would pretend like you didn't have this.

That's what I was gonna say. There's something about— yeah, for you guys, um, putting this way, I think, is going to be most of it. Now, the housing thing, I'm— are you guys going to be in this area for a while, for the foreseeable future, do you think?

Or is there like— so yeah, so that's a great question. Um, actually, what the Lord has done very recently, we don't have an exact timeline, but anywhere between the next 6 months and potentially 18 months, the Lord is moving us to, um, a third world country. So actually our, uh, our expenses will decrease. Okay.

Um, and don't buy a house if you're leaving.

So I was gonna say, yeah, yeah, I mean, that's the plan. I would be— I'd be giving some of this. A majority of it, I would just put it— I would invest it. I mean, index funds, mutual funds. I would put it away. Um, and if you guys needed a little bit, I, I just don't want this to drip disappear over— yes, you know what you mean— 5 to 6 when you start to— like, there's something about living within your means still that I think is really wise. And like you said, you guys will be moving to a different country, so your expenses are totally different.

But don't— don't also— do not— back to what I was saying earlier— do not sign up a financial person or an insurance person or anybody who's telling you what to do. Their job is to teach you.

Yeah, because we currently— we can't— so I do have maybe another two-part question that goes off of what you guys are asking as as well. One, we do currently have a financial advisor. They are through Primerica. So I do have term life, and we do have a Roth IRA that we are maxing out each year. Now, that isn't a part of the question that I was going to ask. You were actually just getting to that in regards to if we need a little bit of extra money. My heart is 100% to do everything that you guys just shared in regards to generosity and living below our means. We currently still do. Now, we've already done our budget for the, the new location, and we are still going to be looking at around $1,500 a month short. Is there a way to— I, you know, I've heard about like dividend funds, or is there a way to collect some sort of income.

Any mutual fund can pay you an income. Any mutual fund. You can just take a systematic withdrawal, a certain amount per month or a certain percentage, either one. Any mutual fund. It doesn't require it to— the funds or the stocks inside don't have to be dividend funds to do that. You could do that with a simple S&P. And would you recommend he do that and they could live off $1,000 a month? I'd recommend you go back to Fundraiser. Fundraising and raise your money and not touch this money. If you got a $1,500 a month drip, take it out like you're doing now out of your comp— out of the mission's budget that you put together with your retained earnings inside that. Dave Ramsey here. For more than 30 years, I've been talking to folks on the air, and I can tell you that most people are broke not because they don't make enough money, but because they don't have a plan. You need to give every dollar you earn a job, because when you do that, something changes. You stop guessing, you stop worrying, you stop stressing. Our EveryDollar budgeting app will show you how to find extra cash, pay off debt, and finally start winning with money.

But most Most people won't do it. They'll keep living paycheck to paycheck, keep hoping things will change without making a change. It's time to say enough is enough. It's time to take control of your money. It's time to start your EveryDollar budget for free today. Go download it in the App Store or Google Play. Our Scripture of the Day, Psalm 62:8, "Trust in him at all times. Pour out your heart to him, for he is our refuge." Sam Levinson said, "Don't watch the clock, do what it does. Keep going." Ooh, I like that. All right, up next is going to be Beth in Los Angeles. Hi, Beth, how are you? I'm good.

How about you, Dave? Hi, Rachel. Hi, Beth.

Thanks for calling in.

I have, um, I share two teenage daughters with my husband. Um, he currently owns a home. Um, it's under the property taxes under his name and his sister's name. Um, the mortgage is just under his name. Um, lately he's been experiencing some health concerns, so I want to know, is there anything Um, is there something, a legal thing that I can do so that way in case something does happen to him, um, my two teenage daughters do get a portion of that home?

Okay, you said the property tax, property— there's a deed, the title to the home. Who is the home titled to?

I'm not sure. Well, that would be, that would, that would be the essential part of information.

Okay, and then the second question is, there are several types of things you can do with two individuals that aren't married. Tenants in common, tenants in entirety, there's several different things you can do. And until we know California law, and we know how it's titled, we don't know how big a concern you have. Okay, but is your husband— is he still able to do business? Yes, yes. Okay, then you all start talking about this tonight and get to the bottom of this. How is it titled, and how do we ensure that your portion of the ownership goes to your— is it your daughters? Is that what you're wanting?

Yes, that's correct, my daughters.

Okay, well, number one, you need a will. Does he have a will?

No, he doesn't. Well, he needs to get a will.

Everybody that's breathing that's over 18 years old needs a will. So how complicated is your all's estate other than this house? How many other things are there?

Um, he has his like stocks and investments, and I also have my own home as well, and also some little investments.

Um, but so this is a second marriage?

No, no, no, it's our, it's our only marriage. Why do we have—

why do we— I have my own home.

What's that mean? Oh, because I had, I had purchased a home before I met him. Okay. And then he had this home before he met me and then we joined forces and that's, um, you know, that's how it is.

And, and how old are y'all?

Um, he's in his late 40s. I'm in my early 40s. Okay.

You need a will. If you want to do a simple one, both of you need one. If you need to do a simple one, you can go to mamabearlegalforms.com. And that you can do one overnight. It's very easy. It's really not complicated. It just means you have to deal with the fact that you're gonna die someday. Welcome to the emotions of that. But if you want to get complicated, obviously you can go to an attorney, but don't drag this out 2 years. Get it done now. And wills need to be state-specific, and they need to be in California, okay? If you're a resident of California, you go by California law, not by Tennessee law. And California law is different in so many ways. But yeah, so, um, but anyway, you want to make sure that your will lines up with that. And then while you're doing that, you need to jump on the phone and learn about, uh, with an attorney probably, learn about his portion of this house and how to ensure under California law that his portion of ownership goes to his sister. It might be— or goes to his daughters, not to his sister.— and some— there's one type of deed that you can do in some states that when you die, his portion would automatically go to his sister.

You want to make sure you don't have that, okay? Okay. And, and that California doesn't allow that. And I don't know the answer to that because we don't know how this is titled, and I don't know California law that well. So, got it. All of that to say say, "We just want to, if we need to change the deed, if we need to put the deed in a trust, if we need to put it in—" It may be as simple as he states in the will that his portion goes to his daughters. It's probably that simple. But you want to double-check because you don't want to have to fight with a sister-in-law after death.

Yeah, do you guys have a good relationship? Because I'm sure she has to sign off if you change the deed and do a couple of things. Right? Would she have to—

she'd probably have to sign off on it. He could sign off his portion with quitclaim into a trust without— in any state, he can do that. Okay. So yeah, we're very friendly.

It's— yeah. Yeah.

So if you needed something from her, like a signature, it's not like a big thing.

You're very wise to be concerned now because you can't fix— you can't buy fire insurance after the house burns down. You can't fix estate deals after somebody dies. Dies. So you need to do it now, tonight. Okay, don't— yeah, yeah, not, not because 40-year-old people, things happen to them all the time. 30-year-old people, things happen to them all the time. Everyone needs a will, and it's, it's just to protect your family. And it's, what do I will? What do I want to have happen? And if you don't write that down, that's your last will. What is my will? What is my I'm my last want, and here I'm gonna testify to that, my last will and testament.

And it just makes it so complicated for the people that you leave, right?

Oh, it's so hard on everybody.

You're done, you're gone, but man, for everyone else. So hard on everybody. Untangling a mess is not fun during grief.

So, get wills and do a little bit of research on what happens to his half in California in the way that's titled. Matthew is in San Antonio. Hey, Matthew, how are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Um, we have a lot of house problems. We are looking for counsel whether we should sell the house, um, and start over and hope to break even, or invest and then to possibly gain, or if we should just—

If you didn't own it, would you buy it again?

No.

No, right? No, sir. Yeah, if you didn't own it, knowing what you know now, it's not romantic to buy a fixer-upper. It's a pain in the butt. And that's what you discovered, right? Yeah, yes, sir, very much. Yeah, those people that do it on television, you know, they have crews and editors and it makes it look like it happened in 1 hour and it didn't. It happened over weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks and everything that can go wrong goes wrong. And there, those television shows are full of crap. And so that's not how life works. And you discovered that. Sell it, man. It's no fun for you.

Did you guys do it because you wanted to fix it up, or is it what you could afford?

It was what we could afford.

Yeah, that's what's hard. Some people—

before— yeah, sorry. Yeah, no, no, I was affirming that.

Yes, that's what we're seeing more and more is because of the market, you're buying things that are not— it's not new, right? And so you're gonna have to— what, what's going on with it? What are the problems?

Um, major problem is the sewage drain is broken inside the house underneath the foundation. Average pricing we've been receiving to fix it has been $20,000, has been like the lowest on average. Um, how long have y'all had it? For less than 3 years. We're going, going on, going on into our third year, but it's really been a little over 2.

Okay, how much do you— how much is it worth?

Um, We received the loan for $135,000. Uh, now what I mean, without it, the plumbing being fixed, I'm sure it dropped dramatically. Um, we still owe $130,000 on it. Can you get out of it? So within, within 10 months, um, we can within 10 months because we got, um, a first-time homebuyers, um, no doubt. I forgot what the loan was called, but like no down payment basically, like loan. Um, so we, so we have a minimum of—

we have to say, is the sewer functioning? How are you living in it?

Um, thank you, Lord. There was an unfinished bathroom. It was sold as a 3-bedroom, 1-bath. There was an unfinished bathroom on— in the garage that, that pipes around the house and taps into the yard. Um, so that's how we, we use the restroom. And then we wash dishes, um, with, with 5-gallon buckets It's like, like that. Yeah. And we have two young kids and I have not been like an on top of it husband. This is just something that has been like a healing action. Yeah. Yeah.

What happens if you sell it earlier than 10 months?

We owe the money back for that, for the down payment.

How much was that?

I could be wrong. I believe it was $5,000, but I could be wrong.

What's your household income? What's your income?

Um, without overtime, uh, $3,300. Um, with overtime, um, a little over $4,000.

I wonder if you can scrape together $5,000 and get out of it and go rent somewhere.

I wouldn't live in a place with 5-gallon buckets, man. I'd get out of there. Um, yeah, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.