Transcript of How To Improve Your Life With ONE Change | Oprah & Mel Robbins

This is coming to my podcast. We've never met. I hear that distinct voice. Come on now. Oh, how are you doing?

Oh, I just wanted to look in your eyes, but first, let me just feel your oh my gosh.

Look at us.

We're here. I have been waiting for this moment, and I am so ready. Really? Oh, this is so much bigger than a conversation.

You're having a moment. You know, I've had a lot of low moments.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of my life that I have not been present for.

And I'm not gonna miss this. Thank you. Thank you for recognizing

me. So, everybody, thanks for joining us on this podcast. I'm so glad to be able to have this time to share with my very, very special guest, Mel

Robbins. Hey, it's your friend, Mel. I am so excited that you're here with me today.

Mel Robbins began her career as an attorney and worked sometimes as a radio host. While she and her husband, Chris, were raising their 3 children, a business failure landed them $800,000 in debt. To make money, Mel started a new path as a life coach and motivational speaker. A friend invited her to do a TEDx Talk. Mel called it, how to stop screwing yourself over.

It turned out to be a prophetic title.

When you feel stuck or dissatisfied in your life, it's a signal.

It's now 1 of the most watched TEDx talks ever and was the catalyst for the Mel Robbins millions know and follow today. Her mix of authenticity and no nonsense advice is the secret behind 2 best selling books and her mega hit, the Mel Robbins podcast.

And I also wanted to be sure to tell you, in case no 1 else tells you, that I love you and I believe in you.

Powerhouse speaker, you're a global podcast sensation, and best selling author. Just I mean, can you even take all of that in yourself?

Can you

take it all in?

I can in this moment because I'm sitting across from you.

Yeah.

And I have been so in the dirt Yeah. And taken it 1 day at a time Yeah. And 1 conversation at a time Mhmm. That when you are focused on just what you can do in this moment or what you can do to get through the day or what you can do to make things a little bit better for yourself or the people that you care about or strangers that you bump into. Mhmm.

Okay. So let me say this. I have over the years read, I don't probably thousands of books, And this is by far just 1 of the best self help books I've ever read. It's it is it is right up there with all the greats. All the greats.

And the reason it is, I think it's it's a it's a life changer. It's life altering for anybody who reads it because it's your personal story. It's like you're speaking into our ear, and it comes with your knowledge and your acknowledgment of the mistakes that you have made. Mhmm. And it's it's it just is there to set people free.

Yes. That's what you've done.

Thank you.

That's what you did. Thank you. It's incredible. It's incredible. I couldn't believe it.

Page after page after page after page. Yes. Yes. I believe it. I couldn't believe it.

I couldn't believe it. And it's so simple. You know what I love about it is is that you are saying in these pages everything I was trying to say for 25 years, day after day after day after day after day. So let's start with the light bulb moment. Can we start the light bulb moment?

Yes. The prom. I love

this moment. You know, Oprah, I have dreamt about the day that I would get to sit down and be with you. And in all of those manifestations Mhmm. And dreams, never in a 1000000 years did I think I would be telling you that my life changed at a high school prom. Never in a 1000000 years.

And we have 3 children, and so the the first 2 are girls and having gone through the prom with them. I mean, that was, like, 5 months of headaches and spray tans and promposals and stress and. And when it was finally done, I was like, oh my gosh. Thank goodness that's over. So when our son Oakley was coming to his prom, I thought this is gonna be a breeze.

And it was actually way worse because he was so noncommittal. We didn't even know if he was gonna go.

22 weeks before.

2 days.

I thought it was 2 weeks. 2 days

before. Okay.

2 days before.

2 days before, he's all of a sudden, like, I think I'm gonna go. And I'm like, we live in the middle of Vermont. Where am I gonna get a tux? Oh, and now you want those white tennis shoes? And so it was like, boom, boom, boom, boom.

48 hours of stress, stress, stress. And so we finally get to the point where Chris is, like, putting his tie on, and we're about to run out the door. And we're heading to the pre prom photos. And so we get to the pre prom photos. We take the photos.

And because of the buildup, I'm, like, already stressed out. And

because it's his first prom.

Yes. And because I've been a lunatic. I mean, I'm, like, controlling and I'm trying to find stuff, and now I'm trying to micromanage everything. And we get to the prom. We take the photos.

Everything's fine. And then out of nowhere, it starts to rain. And by rain, I mean, downpour. And so now you got 20 kids in black tie and all of these parents milling about, and now everyone's starting to look around because nobody has umbrellas, nobody has anything. And so I turned to Oak, and I'm like, hey.

Where are you guys going for dinner? Because I'm thinking I need to help with the situation. He's like, well, I don't know. And I'm like, wait. You don't have dinner plans?

And you got 20 kids?

Yes. And then I turned to my husband. They don't have dinner plans? He's like, I guess not. And so now I'm getting all activated over something dumb, and I start to look at my phone for reservations for 20 kids, and I can't find anything.

And the other parents are milling about. And I'm like, oh, what are you gonna do? And he's like, I think we're gonna go to the taco stand. Now keep in mind, this is like something that 4 kids can fit in. Yeah.

These kids are in black tie. Yeah. It's pouring rain. And I'm like, what? And I don't know what it was, Oprah.

But I just was about to go into monster control mode. And my daughter who is home from college reaches out, grabs my arm with that sort of, like, forceful grip and yanks me towards her. And she's like, oh, you're being annoying. Was this Sawyer? This was Kendall.

Okay. This was Kendall. This was Kendall. So I'm like, but but it's right. And she's like, mom, if they wanna get wet, let them get wet.

But but but he's gonna ruin his shoes. Mom, if he's gonna ruin his shoes, ruin his shoes. But but but her dress, mom, let them. Mom, let them do what they wanna do, but they don't have friends. Let them eat a taco stand.

Let them get wet. Let them dance all night in wet tuxedos. For crying out loud, mom, it's their prom, not yours. Just let them. And there was something about the cascade of let them.

Let them. Let them. They just hit me. And I thought, yeah. Let them.

Let them. Why am I thinking about his dinner? Why am I not thinking about mine? Yeah. And why couldn't you just

let and so what if the sneakers get wet? And so what? You you need you left out the part about the whole corsage. You'd wanted her to have the corsage, and then your son said Oakley said, no. No corsage, and then you're standing there with the corsage.

And you let them. Let her not have the corsage. Let them.

I was so Did you

know then how powerful it was?

Oh, no. No. No. No. No.

No. No. I went I I just felt, like, my self release. Mhmm. And the next day, I'm standing at the garden center.

Mhmm. And you know how when you're in line and there's, like, 5 people in front of you, and it's like beep beep beep, And you feel the stress rise up and you start looking around and you feel agitated and then you start thinking in your head, you know, why aren't they getting any other but a thing to open up your hair? What's going on up there? And now all of a sudden you think you can run a grocery store or a garden center better than anybody else. And then you're fussing and you're like, let them.

And it was like instant peace. And I started to say let them. Anytime I was in a situation where I was annoyed or stressed out or bothered or hurt or worried or frustrated, and it had this unbelievable impact of having an immediate release.

Yeah.

And what I started to notice, full stop, is that I didn't have time and energy because I was turning other people into a major problem in my life.

All the time.

All the time. I was giving my power to other people, what they were doing, what they were saying, what they were thinking. So if I go back to the grocery store, what's amazing about that story, you're standing in line. The stress is coming up. When you start to get all flustered by what other people are doing, you're now trying to control something you can't control.

Because you will never be able to control what other people are doing, what they think, what they say. You cannot control how a grocery store is staffed or how fast the line is moving. And when you focus on things that you can't control, you miss the single biggest most amazing thing about life. That you are actually always in control. Because there are 3 things that are always within your control, Oprah.

You can always control what you think. You can always control what you do or don't do. And you can always control what you do in response to the feelings that rise up. So instead of standing there in a line and burning up for 15 minutes over something stupid and then allowing that to stress me out all day and affect the rest of my day. When I say let them, I immediately recognize that this is something

that I have no power over. Correct. I have no power over. Correct.

Yes. Correct. But I do have power because I can leave the store.

Yes. I always say that that's why I love that The Wizard of Oz. There's so many wonderful teachings there. When Glinda the good witch says, go away. You have no power here.

It's because that's not your territory. You only have territory in your own body and your own person. Yes. And you have no power in anybody else's territory. This is what I love.

In my mind, the crux of the let them, let me theory, which is most important, is that the more you say this, the more you allow people to live their lives, the better your life will get. The more control you give up, the more you actually gain. Can you explain that, Mel?

I absolutely can. We have spent our entire lives managing, worrying about other people. We have made it our jobs to make other people happy. We have made it our job to have opinions about the grocery store, about what our kids are doing. And in doing so, you have given all of your power to something you will never be able to control.

Absolutely. And what I discovered, Oprah, is that the more that I said let them, the more I noticed Yes. That I was spending time wishing that people would be different. I was spending time judging the people in my life. I was spending time wanting people to be in different moods.

And that is time that I could actually redirect back at myself and focus on what I

can mood? Let them.

Why why is it your job to manage somebody else's mood? Why? And better yet, why should somebody else's mood at work, at home, wherever impact your mood? Mhmm.

I love this on page 56. You say, why get stressed out about things beyond your control? It don't really matter. How does something so small have such a large impact on you?

Because you allow it. Because you allow it. And this is the huge thing in this. What is happening around you does not have to happen to you. Right.

What other people are doing, yes, you are going to feel something. You're gonna have an opinion. You will respond. This is human nature. But what you do in response to what somebody else is doing is where your power is.

This is how you take responsibility for your life, Oprah. And let's look at the word responsibility. Yes. It is the ability to respond. And we forget when we get ourselves so stressed out because the grocery line isn't moving the way that you think it should moving, and now you're draining your life force over something so stupid.

And then you wonder, why are you so tired? Why are you so overwhelmed? Why are you last on your list? It's because you allow death by a 1,000 cuts.

Mhmm.

You allow people's moods and inconsiderate strangers and the headlines and the news to be something that impacts you. There's a different way to live. You just say, let them. Let them. Because what you're doing, and this is the really important part, is you are recognizing that this is not within my control.

Therefore, it is not worth my time and energy. And if you respect yourself and if you love yourself, you will focus your time and energy on what is within your control. And that becomes let me. Yes. Yes.

Yes. And this is

them and then let me.

Yes. So there's 2 parts to the theory. The first 1 everybody loves because when you say let them Yes. You're gonna feel superior to everybody else.

That's right.

And it helps you detach.

But I I also like what you say, Mel, that it's not the same thing as letting go. Let them is not the same thing as letting go.

Explain that. You know, I have never been able to let anything go. That probably doesn't surprise anybody. I I just feel like if somebody were to tell me, Mel, just let it go. You know?

Just just let it go. Your mom's disappointed, so just let it go. But it feels like I'm defeated. It feels like I have no choice.

That's right. That you surrendered.

Yes. Yes. I like to feel the the the peace of surrender, but I didn't know how to access it. And I think 1 of the things that I really strive to do is that if something's complicated or it's too intellectual, I can't remember it or I can't apply it.

Well, this is 1 of the things I love about you and your podcast and your work here on the planet at this time where it's most needed. You break down complicated ideas into simple terms and forms that people can understand and relate to. And so let them you know, the Buddhists have said it. The stoics have said it. Great religions have all talked about letting go and letting God.

Mhmm. But you put it in common everyday language and principles that are not just relatable, but resonate. And that's why I had after after moment when I was reading this book, And I know that you are a woman who's made for this time Yes. For such a time as this.

Yes. And and everybody needs this tool because there is so much in the world right now Mhmm. That is out of your control.

Yes.

From the headlines to global politics, to what's happening at the local scoreboard, to what your mother's mood is, to the stress that your kids And

I love what you said about that. Everybody's already voted. You had the 2 candidates. The decisions have been made, and so let them. It's done.

Now decide what you can do and let yourself do that. And if you can't,

let them. Right. And the the second part of the theory, which is let me Yes. Is actually the more important part. Yes.

And the reason why is because, first of all, you have to say let them Because you can't take control of your own life until you stop trying to control everybody else and everything around you. And so let them is when you release control.

Oh my goodness. It's so freeing.

Yes. Yes. And then you have to say let me. Mhmm. Because let me is where you cue yourself.

Yes. In any moment Yes. Whether you're upset about the election Yes. Or somebody just said, I don't love you and I'm leaving Yep. Or you got a terrible health diagnosis or your kid is struggling, it's where you say, let me remind myself.

I always have power because I can always choose what I'm gonna think about this. And what a beautiful thing that is. And I get to choose what I'm gonna do or what I'm not gonna do. And this is where you remind yourself that you do get to choose if you stay in a relationship. You do get to choose if you're gonna offer support.

Why you say you're never stuck. All the people who say you get stuck, you're never stuck because you always get to choose.

Yes. Yes.

Yeah. You say that's a lie to yourself that you can you can leave a job. You can leave a relationship. You can leave a living situation, a date, an interview, or conversation, whatever. You're you're never stuck.

Never ever ever ever ever stuck. Ding ding ding. Yes. Amen to that.

And and and here's I I wanna really underline this because we convince ourselves. When you stay in a job and your job is not going anywhere, it doesn't make you feel good.

But a lot of people feel I have to stay there because I need them. I obviously, I need the money.

Of course, you do. But do you know how many jobs are on the planet? And if you actually are staying in a job hoping it gets better, who has the power? Your boss Right. And the people that you work for.

Right.

So you gotta let them reveal who they are. You gotta let them reveal whether or not they value you and how they're gonna treat you. And then you gotta say let me. Let me choose if I'm gonna stay in this situation. Let me remind myself that I am capable of doing the work to go out and get a different job.

Let me remind myself that it is my responsibility to create a life that makes me happy, which means if I'm not happy in this job, don't you dare stay in it and give the power to them. Take the power back. Let me get my rear end out there and go find a job.

Well, I had so many underlying spaces in this book. I was just like, well, I just need to stop highlighting and just reading the whole book. Okay. I love this on page 90. You're so much stronger than anyone's opinions about you.

And I think that is so I need to remind myself about that now because there's so much, you know, vitriol and crazy things and conspiracy theories and all kinds of nutsoid stuff Yes. On the Internet that I just can't even imagine. People think that's true or they're saying those things about me, but

let them Well and here's why you have to. Because I wanna remind you that if you want a better life and if you wanna tap into your potential and if you want better relationships, you need the time and energy that you're wasting on things you can't control. Yeah. And you need the energy that is being drained by all these things that you are allowing to stress you out. You need that energy and time to actually do the work to advance your own goals and your own health and your own relationships.

And so instead of giving your time and energy to all this other stuff, the more you say let them, the more you're actually honoring your time and energy. It is the ultimate boundary. Mhmm. And I wanna explain something, Oprah, about the power that you give to somebody else's opinion. Okay?

Yes. Please do. As you're spending time together with me and Oprah right now, I want you to just think about your favorite social media platform. And I want you to think about the moment where you're about to create a post. And so you pick a photo and then you're like, I don't really like that photo.

And then you pick another photo. And then you're thinking about the filters. And then you go to start to write the caption. And then you're like, here's an emoji or should I write that? Is that a little bit too much?

For who? I want you to stop and consider that that entire time, who are you giving power to? You are actually giving power to what another human being is potentially going to think Mhmm. About what you're about to do. Now you will never be able to control or guarantee what another person thinks about you.

Because the average person has 70,000 thoughts a day, and you can't even control half of the ones that pop in your mind. So what on earth makes you think you could crawl up in someone else's head with your social media post and guarantee that they're not gonna unfollow you or they're not gonna roll their eyes or whatever. And I and I'm telling you this because it's something you can relate to. And I need to remind you, your social media is for you. That's for your self expression.

That is for you to be able to put out into the world your art. Mhmm. The things you care about. And how sad is it that in that moment, you are giving power to another person

out of Kenya? Think they will like

instead of what you like. Correct. And if you look at all of the draft posts, because everybody has 100 of them Mhmm. That is a graveyard of all of your potential. And the reason why you didn't post those things is because you stressed yourself out so much giving power to somebody else's opinion that you exhausted yourself, and you didn't do it.

And you do this all day long. Yeah.

Well, that's why I like when you say, let me live my life to make my self proud. Let me make decisions that align with my own values. Let me take risks because I want to. Let me follow the path my soul is turning me toward. That's why we're all here.

That's why we're all here. And you will never do it if you are constantly afraid of what people are gonna think. And so here's how I want you to use the let them theory. Just say, let them think a negative thought. Let them.

Because that's what you're scared of. I mean, actually say

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Let them thinking negative thought. Because once you release from that fear and then you say, let me live my life in a way that makes me proud, a funny thing happens. You don't actually think about what other people think when you're proud of yourself because you know the truth.

That is so powerful. Okay. When did you learn that? Did you have to learn that the hard way? Did something have to happen?

I learned everything the hard way. Like, I think that is my lot in life to just dig a hole or fall in 1 Mhmm. And just have to figure it out. And I I think I've been learning that all along. I still I I use it every day.

I mean, I'm proud of myself, and I still catch myself stopping and thinking.

Well, I wanna talk about people that feel like, they can still control other people. You say, here's the truth. When you push someone, it only makes the person push back. You're working against the fundamental law of human nature. People need to feel in control of their decisions.

You want people in your life to change, but pressuring them creates resistance to it. You may be acting with the best of intentions, but it's yielding the worst results. That's because every time you fight against human nature, you will lose.

And let's talk about human nature.

Let's talk

about that. So, ultimately, what the Let Them theory is about is control. And every human being has a fundamental hardwired need to be in control of their lives, themselves, their decisions, their environment. Because when we are in control of our jobs and what we're thinking, we feel safe. Now here's the problem.

If you do something that makes me upset or worries me or hurts me, now I'm gonna need to control you, Oprah, so that I can feel safe. But here's the problem. You have the same need to control yourself that I have in me. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. So when I step in and I think that I know best or I think that you should do something or I wanna change you, what's gonna happen is I'm gonna push against your hardwired need to be in control of yourself. And so you will push back. And what I want this changed my marriage. It changed my parenting.

It changed my relationship with how I am at work. The let them theory is gonna make space for change to happen because people need to feel like changing is their idea. People only change, Oprah, when they are ready to do the work to change.

That's what I loved that you emphasized over and over again as well. Nobody's gonna change until they're ready.

Yes. And we make the mistake of thinking that we can push somebody else to do it. And when you push against somebody else, especially somebody that is struggling, you know, I often think about the fact that the hardest working kid in a classroom is not the 1 getting the a's. It's the kid who's failing. Because they know that they're not doing well.

And they can do well if they can. And if they're not doing well, it's because they're at a moment in their life where they can't. They're missing skills. They're missing hope. They're missing support.

And so the kid that's struggling or the adult that's struggling Mhmm. They're in deep active conflict within themselves. A human being knows, Oprah, when they're not reaching their potential. Yes. Don't we all?

Yes. And so they're already putting so much pressure on themselves because they know that they're not studying and they're not excelling. And we do this with our health. Like, I think that I think the heart the people that work the hardest at the the health are the people that are struggling with it. Absolutely.

And we don't stop and think about that. We actually come in with judgment and opinions and suggestions like, oh, you know, if you kinda cut calories and go for a walk, you might lose some weight. Oh, thanks, Einstein. Like, I didn't think about that.

That's right.

Yeah. And so when somebody pushes you even with the best of intentions, what happens is it creates more pressure. And so you didn't actually create motivation. You created resistance. Resent resentment and resistance.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And you also created distance in your relationship. And so if you really want people in your life to excel

because now they'll just try to hide it from you or not be truthful with you or not be forthcoming.

Yes. You have to say let them. Because what it does is it creates for the first time space for the person to feel accepted instead of judged. It creates space for them to really learn from life, and it creates space with your support for somebody to tap into their own god given potential to change. And what I've also realized is that every time I have stepped in and tried to pressure 1 of my kids to study harder or do this or do the other thing, You know what I'm actually doing?

I'm actually saying to them, I don't think you're capable of this without me. When you step in and try to do it for somebody else Yes. And you don't just let somebody face the natural consequences of their decisions. When you keep rescuing somebody or making excuses for them, what you're saying is I don't believe you're actually capable of doing this on your own. I don't believe that you're capable or strong enough to rising to this.

I love this because this is a big lesson for people with adult children who they are still supporting financially. You say when you enable others with money, your words, and your actions, you don't independence at all. No. I mean, I had to learn this the hard way because you think by giving people money, and I can tell you for sure, it does the exact opposite.

Yes. It does the exact opposite. The exact opposite. And look. It is a good thing to worry about people.

Yes. It's a great thing to see the potential in somebody. It is an act of love to want somebody to be healthy and vibrant and thriving. That's not the issue. The issue and the problems that I have created for 54 years of my life, Oprah, is that I was going about it the wrong way.

Yeah.

You were going about it the wrong way because what? You didn't you just didn't know or you didn't know?

I didn't have the Lathem theory. Yeah. I had no idea how human beings worked. See, you have to push yourself Yeah. In order to make change happen.

But if you push other people, you actually stop it from happening.

I really related to what you write about jealousy on page 144. In life, if you're not motivated to do something, it's going to take something painful to force you to change. Share with us what happened when you went to your friend's newly remodeled house. 1 of the reason I appreciate this book so much is all the stories. You know?

Molly, the interior designer. I mean, the fact that you are allowing us to see inside of your mistakes the way that you do.

So I this was at a moment in my life where my husband and I were struggling, and a lot of people were kinda taking off in their careers, Oprah. Mhmm. And I remember pulling up to a friend's house, and she had just finished a renovation. Beautiful house. It was the kind of house that I'd always dreamt of.

I wanted so desperately to be a good friend.

And be happy for her.

And to be happy for her.

Yeah.

And deep in my heart, she deserves this, and I want this for her. But I was so jealous. I was so upset because I was in a place in my life where I wanted these things and I didn't have them. And I was looking at life the wrong way. See, I used to think that if somebody else was winning or got what I wanted, it means I'll never have it.

I used to look at other people and I would see them as competitors in the game of life. That if somebody else had a podcast, oh, there's too many. I'm too late. You know, I can't do it. Yeah.

And here's the thing that I learned with the lesson theory. Other people never block your way. Only you can do that. Bing bing bing bing bing. Wow.

That is so true. Other people lead the way Yes. If you allow them to. See, other people show you what's possible. And if you let them be successful and you let them be happy and you let them get in great shape and you let them make a lot of money, they're gonna reveal a formula.

That's

right. And if you're so busy like I was, giving power to other people's success and then

You're preaching here today, Mel.

You're preaching here today. I I'm I'm you are capable of creating anything because success, love, happiness, money, friendship, these things are in limitless supply. Limitless. Yeah. And what we get wrong about the game of life is you're not playing against other people, you're playing with them.

That's right. And you can learn how to be a better player from other people. But if you're so busy giving power to other people's accomplishments and then using that as an example for why it's never gonna happen to you, you're gonna miss the fundamental law about life, which is it's there for everybody's creation. I remember going to

a producer's home, who was the richest person I ever known at that time when I was in Baltimore, Arlene Weiner. And I walked into her home, and the house was surrounded by trees, and there were trees when you looked out the kitchen window. And I was like, wow, Arlene is rich. If I ever get some money, I'm gonna have a house with trees. Yeah.

And so I use that as my motivation. When I walked when I first was hired by Steven Spielberg for The Color Purple, I went to his studio at Amblin, and that's what gave me the idea for myself. Oh my god. That means this is possible? A person can have their own studio?

So it resonated so deeply with me what you were saying is because I've applied those principles not even knowing I was applying those principles all these years.

But I couldn't because I didn't have a tool. I couldn't because I didn't know how to stop the flood of jealousy Mhmm. And insecurity. Because, you know, I take the tour of my friend's house and I see the queen bunk beds, and now I know why all the kids are at their house and not at my house, and I feel like a gigantic loser. And I'm not evolved.

I'm just soaking in my jealousy. And so what I do is I get in the car and my poor husband, Chris, sits down, and I just aim it at him as if it's his fault. Because we don't know what to do when we feel so overwhelmed with, like, doubt and shame and upset. And so we tend to just act out instead of seeing what's possible.

How do you not I mean, even if you say let them Mhmm. There is a part of you that still compares yourself to that, though. Yeah.

That's not a that's not a problem. Comparison's natural. Yeah. It's what you do with the comparison that matters. Absolutely.

So if you use comparison the way that I did in that story and for most of my life, most of my life, I would see somebody doing something or they had achieved something I wanted and I was like, whoop. There you go. Never gonna happen for me. So I was using it to torture myself. I was using the example of somebody else's life as a way to tell me that my dreams are not gonna happen.

Instead of

Instead of saying it's happened for them means it's possible that it can also happen for me.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And the friends, by the way Yes. That really upset you are super important because you can look at people that you admire.

Yes. And you can look at people that have all these amazing things as you're manifesting. But a lot of the time, they don't galvanize this pain inside of you to actually do something about it. When it's a friend and you know there's no secret sauce or trust fund or anything that gave them a special advantage and they just work their tail off Mhmm. And you start getting upset about that, the reason why you're upset is you're not upset at your friend.

You're upset at yourself.

Yourself. Yes.

Because you gave up on yourself. And that anger is important because it is a signal from your body that I want that. See, I don't get jealous of things I don't want. Do you wanna do you wanna know what jealousy is? Jealousy is your blocked desire and dreams.

Jealousy rises up because somebody has something that is trapped in your soul. And you've been so busy giving your power away to stupid things and other people and managing all the stuff that's out of your control, that you're draining the time and energy that you could be using to slowly chip away at those things. Jealousy is like knock, knock, knock. Pay attention. You're supposed to have a house like this, dummy.

Stop stressing about all this stuff that you shouldn't be worried about and remind yourself it's time to get to work.

Oh, so good. The chapters in relationships are so good. And, oh, how I wish I had this book in my twenties. I'm getting this book for every single girl at my school. Every single girl.

It's you are never too young to learn this lesson of let them. And on page 40, you say, the question is I wish I'd had this. The question is, why do you want to be with someone who does this to you? And the answer, bing, bing, bing, you don't. Don't waste your energy chasing someone who's already left.

The hardest thing about being a mom of, you know, 25, 23, 19 is and even just kind of looking at people that write in is your refusal to see somebody's behavior is the truth. Don't listen to what somebody says.

Listen to what they show you.

Correct. Behavior reveals who someone is and where you stand in their life.

Yeah. That's why Maya Angelou always said, that's my favorite lesson. You know that when when people show you who they are, believe them the first time because they always show you.

Yes. But here's the mistake that I made forever, and here's the mistake we all make. Instead of being in a relationship with the reality Yeah. You are up in your head explaining away behavior, which means you are in a fantasy. You know, if you are fooling around with somebody and they slink out like a cat in the morning, and you're then convincing yourself that they care about you, they're not the problem.

You are. Because you refuse to see the behavior as what it is, which is they don't care about you. They're not interested in committing.

Admit that to yourself.

Correct. And the more time you spend with somebody who has no interest in what you want in life, the more you are keeping yourself in a prison and robbing you from creating what you actually deserve.

Okay. So how do you differentiate between letting them?

Mhmm.

They're not giving you the intention that you feel that you deserve, so let them. They're not giving you what you want Yep. So let them. How do you distinguish between that and I now need to move on to don't waste your energy chasing someone who's already left? Yes.

Because in essence, that person's already gone. They're not giving you what you want. How do

you know the difference? In terms of who's worth fighting for? Yes. Well, you get to choose, Oprah. Yeah.

You get to choose. Because if it's like, if we're talking about a breakup. Right? We're talking about that somebody has said I don't love you and they've left. Right?

The relationship is over.

Or they are showing you through their behavior that the relationship is over.

Oh, yes.

Because it's true. They may not have said the words Yes. But they have

They have quit. They have quit. Yes. So you have to keep going. Let them let them walk out the door.

Let them treat me in a way that is actually not that attractive. It's kind of a turn off. Let them confuse me. Because there actually isn't anything confusing about people's behavior. It's your inability to accept it at face value that is confusing you.

I love this so much.

Let me let me because you always get to choose. If this is your biggest hopes and dreams to be with somebody, the gaslights you and doesn't make you a priority, then choose it. And the only way that you know that you can powerfully choose it is if you can stop complaining about it. And so, keep coming back to the let me part. Let me remind myself that I can always think whatever I want about this.

And let me remind myself that I can stay. I can leave. I can decide what I put time into. I can decide what I don't put time into.

There's so many gems in this book. I I just I don't even know what to tell y'all. You just need to get the book. You need to get the audiobook, and start underlining for yourself and and keep it by your bedside table is what I would say. On page 104, you you say people can only meet you as deeply as they meet themselves.

Mhmm. Most people haven't gone to therapy, and they haven't looked at their issues.

Mhmm.

And they don't want to. But the fact is most human beings, you say, have never done the work to understand themselves. And so they can't begin to be what you need them to be because they haven't been able to do it for themselves. And a therapist shared this with you.

Yes. So my therapist is the smartest woman I've ever met, Anne Davin. And she said, Mel, most adults are just 8 year olds in big bodies.

I believe that is true.

And the reason why that's true is being able to act like a mature adult and manage your emotions and express yourself in a responsible way. It's a skill, and you have to learn it. And if you are not surrounded by adults that knew how to do that, then you have not been taught how to do that.

I know there are many people listening to us right now. You're in working situations where you're around people who are behaving like they are in middle school still, and they're grown ups and they're coming to work in their suits and things every day and are still Yes. Because most people are still emotionally there.

And here's what I love about this. Because I have a deep concern, as I know you do, of the rise in estrangement. Mhmm. I have a deep concern about the labeling of behavior and the labeling of people and the rise of what I see of very immature behavior of just ghosting or cutting people out without even an explanation. And what I love about the let them theory is that this is not a license to just cut off communication and shrug your shoulders.

Make up, let them. It's not supposed to make you lonely. And it's also not because I get a lot of pushback from people going, well, wait. I'm just supposed to let them be rude. I'm just supposed to let them do this and let I'm gonna be a doormat.

No. Right now you are a doormat because you're tolerating the behavior. This isn't about tolerating any kind of abuse or any kind of awful behavior. This is about seeing it for what it is. This is about saying let them.

Let them be who they are. And let me see this with very clear eyes because I know there is no way I can change who this person is. Mhmm. And if somebody is treating you poorly, they're already doing it. And when you say let them, you for the first time see with clear eyes exactly who you're dealing with.

And then you gotta say the let me part. Because if you recognize you're never gonna change this person because somebody saying

let them allows you to stop lying to yourself.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And the 8 year old in a big body creates something very important. Because a lot of us have family members that have very challenging behaviors.

And we still

That's a good way of putting it. Yes.

Well, you know, I think family teaches you how to love people you hate sometimes. Right? Mhmm. And let them it's gonna create space. It creates space for people to be who they are.

And it creates space for you to decide how much time and energy you wanna pour into people who may be very emotionally mature. And what I find is that when I view somebody, for example, that might have a very narcissistic personality style. Mhmm. Always about them. They fly off the handle.

It's very draining to be around them. I'm not scared of them anymore. Mhmm. Because they don't affect me. And I get to choose how I show up.

I get to say, I know exactly who this person is and I'm just gonna let them be. I'm not gonna have any expectations it's gonna be any different, but I'm gonna remind myself. Let me remind myself it's my energy that matters.

You know, this book is so important, and I say that, understanding, like, what it takes to live a life that's fulfilled and on purpose and given in service, it's so important for where we are now in our culture. I think that for whatever reason, you've been given this this moment in time to speak to people in this way is going to change so many lives. And I'm wondering how that sits with you. What kind of space, this kind of power in this moment holds for you?

Thank you for that question. I actually feel like an instrument for consciousness, for Mhmm. Compassion Mhmm. For people to truly stop making other people a problem. Like, you're on the planet right now with 8,000,000,000 human beings, and we're all going through this thing together.

And there is such a rise in judgment and bigotry and hate and isolation because we're making other people a problem. We're allowing them to stress us out. We're giving power to their opinions. We're tolerating emotional immaturity with judgment instead of understanding and just having better boundaries. We're paralyzing ourselves because of other people's success.

We're trying to change people instead of learning to love and accept them as they are.

Mhmm.

And you don't have to live like that. Your life can be so much more peaceful. You have so much more power and time and energy. And when you stop living your life as if you're against everybody or you know better or you just create this incredible peace within yourself.

Why do you think this all came together in this moment in time for you? I mean, you've been working at it a long time, and you've made mistakes. And you start the book talking about being $800,000 in debt, which for most people, I like, how do you ever overcome that? And and so why why when you sit with your husband and and you talk about why now, why this moment now, what what is the answer to that? What happened?

I believe that this is divinely ordered. Yeah. I do. And, I often think about, you know, if you're standing in this moment, you can look backwards, Oprah. Mhmm.

And everything that has happened to you makes sense. And you can see the path and the turns and the hardships and the lessons and the things you regret and the things that you learn from, and everything has led you to this moment. I think it's a superpower to stand in the present moment and actually believe that this moment is leading you somewhere extraordinary. You just don't know when or where it's gonna happen. And so in moments where I have been deeply afraid or paralyzed with fear or engaging in my own really immature and hurtful behavior, whether it's in friendship or my marriage or screwing up with my kids.

Kids. Yeah. Because I just didn't know. And that's kinda that drives a lot of my work. That I didn't know that I had dyslexia and ADHD.

I didn't know that that was the source of so many of my struggles and why I had such terrible anxiety. I didn't know that you could literally say let them and have instant peace. I everything that has been a problem in my life, I just didn't know the problem that I was dealing with. Mhmm. And if you actually don't know what the problem is, how the hell are you gonna solve it?

Right. And so I often think about how many people out there just don't know that they're pushing against the wrong thing, but the real root of the issue is something so simple. And so for me, when I've been in those moments that I just am like, why am I doing this? And is it ever gonna change? And where is this leading?

And will I ever ever meet Oprah Winfrey 1 of

these days?

No. I I mean it. Like, I I I kept saying myself. Really? I kept saying to myself, you're not meant to be there yet.

And you have to stand in this moment because I believe that success comes down to 1 thing. Being willing to get out of bed on the days that you don't feel like it.

That's right.

And putting 1 foot in front of the other and slowly chipping away at the things that you care about and trying to be a little bit better of a person. And if you can do that and if you can be kind to other people and if you can give up your timeline, and you can just keep reminding yourself in those dark days that your job is not to give up, your job is to glow. And the way that you do that, Oprah, is you say, I know that this moment is leading me somewhere. I do. And when you believe that, you keep going.

I wish for you the greatest success. I hope this book stays on the bestseller list. I hope it it never goes off. I really do. It's a game changer.

But it's it's not just a game changer. It's a life changer. It's a life enhancement. I think when people read the book, you're gonna wanna share it with other people. There's so, so, so much more that we didn't get to in this conversation.

The Let them Theory is on sale December 24th. Wow. Give it to yourself as the gift for 2025. You can also preorder it now. Buy 1 for yourself.

I'm telling you, don't just buy 1. You need to buy at least 2 or 3. Do not just buy 1 because you're gonna be reading it, and you're gonna wanna give it to somebody else. And then you're gonna mark up your book, and you're not gonna wanna give them your book, so you need to get more than 1. I'm telling you, it's a perfect gift for the new year.

Make it your personal goal to let them. And, of course, Mel is also the host of the wildly popular Mel Robbins podcast. Thank you everybody for listening. Congratulations on this.

Thank you. I love you.

I love you too. You can subscribe to the Oprah podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.