Transcript of How to Respond When Someone Hurts Your Feelings, says “I was just joking,” or is Passive-Aggressive w/Jefferson Fisher

Do you know how to respond when someone says to you, "I was just joking," but actually they really hurt your feelings? We've all had someone say something hurtful or passive-aggressive and then follow it up by, "I was just joking. Oh, I was just joking." And today we're learning the secret tips and tools on how to handle this in a way that helps instead of hurts our relationships. So back by popular demand, communication phenom and trial attorney Jefferson Fisher is here to talk with you and me today about how we handle this the right way and avoid handling it the wrong way and how it impacts all areas of our lives. Jefferson Fisher is a trial lawyer, a fifth-generation award-winning attorney, writer, and speaker. His work has gained him millions of followers all over the world through short, simple, practical social media videos teaching people how to argue less and talk more. Whether it's handling a heated conversation, dealing with a difficult personality, or standing your ground with confidence, Jefferson helps you communicate during life's everyday arguments and conversations. And his brand new book called The Next Conversation: Argue Less, Talk More is out now. Jefferson says, You can change everything about your life by what you say next.

And you and I are in for a treat because Jefferson has stepped away from his busy legal practice. He got on an airplane. He flew here to be with you and me today. Whether you're listening for yourself or because someone that you love shared this episode with you, I want to welcome you to the Jamie Kern Lima Show podcast family. Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this. With every single person you know because it can change their life too. Before we jump into this episode, I'd be so grateful if you take 2 seconds to click on the follow or subscribe button on the app you're listening or watching the podcast on. It'll help you because you're gonna be the very first to get the episodes and it's gonna help the show because by you following it, it's more likely to be promoted to others to discover. And if you leave a 5-star review, that would be even more amazing. And just thank you so much. This is our show. Together, and it truly means so much to me.

Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life.

Jamie Kern Lima.

Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima.

Jefferson Fisher, welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.

Thank you so much for having me, Jamie. I'm honored to be here.

I'm so excited you're here.

Yeah.

Wow, what has happened with you, with your advice, with your videos. It has become a phenomenon.

Thank you. You're very sweet. Thank you. Yeah, it's truly been a blessing, and right now I'm just holding on.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm excited. So much to dive into today. We've all had, we've all had somebody say something that was like hurtful or passive-aggressive, and then they followed up by, I was just joking. Yes. And so many of us don't know how to handle that the right way. It can cause issues in friendships and relationships. I know we can handle it wrong or we can handle it right. And so Jefferson, when someone says, you know, I was just joking.

Yeah.

How do you process that? How do you handle it? How do you not blow up a relationship or harbor resentment because of it?

Yeah, what you don't do is let it go. When somebody's— Yeah, because—

Don't let it go. 'Cause you know, so many of us, we let it go. And we'll, well, we bury it inside.

You got it.

But on the outside—

You're carrying it.

Yeah.

They just gave you something to carry is all they did whenever you don't speak up for things like that, 'cause they will do it again. But when you speak it out and when you call it out, you don't let it go, you're telling them, "This is not going to fly with me if you do this again." Let me give you some responses to that. Okay. I'm just joking. Some of my favorite are, one, to look them just— and this is where breath comes into place, right? When you're able to have that conversational breath, you just kind of take a moment. You say, hey, look, I'm just joking. It's— then be funnier. Then be funnier. Another I like is, then you need to find new material. Mm. Or you need to work on your material. So it all depends on that personality. Even if you were to say, well, then you need to work— let's work on your material. Like, that's a very almost, uh, humorous way to say, nah, that's not gonna fly.

Not gonna fly. I want to break this down for a second, um, because this happens to so many of us all the time. It could be a colleague that says something, it could be our partner, it could be a family member, a friend, another mom at school, whatever, they say something and then they're like, "I was just joking." And then you're like, "But were you?" And you start thinking about it and you harbor it. And like you said, you hold onto it. So the first thing you're saying before you even react, your first reaction is a breath, a conversational breath. "Is it worth my time?" "Is it worth my time?" Just take us through that. Okay, take us through for anyone hearing about this concept for the very first time. Okay, 'cause this is so powerful, you guys. I don't want you to hear this and be like, "Okay, take a breath, got it." No, no, no, no, no. This is like legit changes the chemistry in your body, gives you your power back, okay, on how you handle situations, whether it's your partner at home or your friend or your, you know, in-law or that person that does not like you no matter what you do.

Whatever it is, the power of a breath right after something like this happens. Can you explain?

Yes.

Okay, for the person hearing this for the very first time, so what does that mean?

A conversational breath, or just injecting breath into your sentence, so let your breath be the first word that you take you are using the power of what they call physiological sigh. And you do it like this. You ready? You're going to take 2 seconds in, then 1 second at the top, and then about 6 seconds of exhale. And you can do it all just right there. Nasal breathing in your nose.

In our nose.

Yes.

2 seconds in.

Mm-hmm. One at the top.

And then another one at the top.

And then if you can, 6 seconds, 5 to 6 seconds of exhale. And what it's doing is it's giving you the effects of a sigh that's going to calm you down. If you listen to this and you did it with us, I can almost guarantee you feel calmer and more at peace than you did before you did this. And what it does is it injects you with the choice, the choice to understand, is this worth my time? The choice to make sure that, is this who I want to give my time to? Is this person worth me getting out of my chair for to stand my ground? Who does this person to me. It gives you some time to think about it, have your analytical side working, not get emotionally flooded in that moment. And what I love about when somebody says, "I was just joking," depends on if it's somebody that's a total stranger to you, somebody who is a work associate, or somebody who's a friend to you. But it's as easy as saying, "Oh, it doesn't sound like a joke. It sounds like an issue." that has a different context to it than "be funnier" or "let's work on your material." It just depends on who you're talking to.

If you're talking to your mother-in-law, you might use, "Well, let's work on that material, huh?" That's a little bit kinder. Or if it's somebody who's being passive-aggressive at work and they go, "I was just joking." Didn't sound like a joke. Sounded like an issue. I mean, whenever you are using that, what you're telling them is, This, "I was just joking," stuff isn't going to fly with me, so don't do it again. That's the message you're sending whenever you call it out like that. But then be funnier. Packs a punch every time.

Okay, and so when we take a deep, we take a conversational breath, 2 in through our nose, 1 at the top, and then out for 6, it gives us our power so we can make a decision, a thoughtful decision on what we wanna say versus just reacting or internalizing it or anything else. And then letting them know, you're saying, "Don't leave it, like, don't leave it." You wanna let them know. And I love that you're giving us tools to put in our toolbox, right? That we can pull 'em out and we know exactly what to say when somebody says those things. And now when you say that, what happens then if they're like, "Oh, no, no, no, I was just kidding. Oh, don't take it so seriously. Oh." What if they get defensive? What if, you know, it goes, into a whole thing, or then they just kind of like, how should you handle it after you tell them clearly? Like, "Well, get better material." Or, "I'll be funnier then." How do you handle it then afterwards if they don't know how to handle it?

Yeah, are you saying what's the next conversation? Is that, how do you handle it next?

Yes.

And it's gonna depend greatly on context, but the biggest thing is when you're, making sure you keep that conversational breath and you're staying engaged and your logic side is dialed in and focused in, you can get real curious and start asking more questions. So if you say, "Then be funnier," and they go, "Well, I mean, look, sorry, I was just doing X, Y, and Z," and they go, "Okay, I was letting you know, it didn't sound like a joke to me," you're having that next conversation of, "Is this something that we need to talk about?" or "I'm happy to go deeper on this with you." often they're gonna start just backpedaling. "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no." When that happens, you let them go. So it's part of the boundary setting. You're letting them go. You've let them know, "Hey, that fence that's around my property here, yeah, you started to step into that. Oh, okay, you didn't mean to? That's no problem. See you later." And you're just kind of letting them go, but you're not being the attack dog. You're not going crazy and barking everywhere. It's that controlled sense of, I know where my line is, I know where the perimeter is, and now you do too.

And now they're so much less likely to keep doing it, right? Because a lot of people just keep doing it over and over and over. What happens in a group setting? You know, you're around a group of people and somebody does it, and they're like, "I was just joking." How do you respond in that moment? Like, what are a couple good things to say? And maybe, maybe those fit, like, "Oh, get better material." Or, you know, what do you do, what do you say when someone, does that, they belittle you or, or they just say, "Oh, I was just joking." And you knew that and it was hurtful and it was in front of everyone else. There is so much more coming up in this episode. You are not gonna wanna miss it. But first, I wanted to share this with you. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy: How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life for You.

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Plus, when you're a part of my free inspirational newsletter community, you'll be the first to get behind-the-scenes content, inspirational messages, and be the first to learn about upcoming events and more. It's the place to be, and I sure hope you'll join me there. So if you're not on the list yet, you can sign up for free at jamiekernlima.com or click the link in the show notes below. And here's to becoming unstoppable together. And now more of this incredible conversation together. What do you say when someone does that? They belittle you, or, um, or they just say, oh, I was just joking, and you knew that, and it was hurtful, and it was in front of everyone else?

Well, pausing. Like, we've— I know we've, we've been talking about is the power of the pause. Not only does the conversational breath control you it naturally injects a pause into it. And so when somebody says something that's hurtful, it could be as easy as, "Don't be so sensitive," or, "I was just joking," or maybe they really said something to— a backhanded compliment, or they put you down in front of other people.

Yeah.

Imagine we're at a group setting, there's a lot of people, and maybe you're part of the crowd, and somebody says something to me that's hurtful. And instead of going, reacting to that, of like, "I can't believe you, oh my gosh," and having this big emotional reaction, you just have that pause that's given by the breath and you just let their words fall to the ground. Now there's just silence. Now everybody feels uncomfortable. So everybody now is going to share. They're not going to be looking at you. They're going to be looking at the person who said it. Because when you give that pause or you ask questions of intent, which is deep into what I go into in the book on saying things with assertiveness, handling just these specific questions. When you can ask questions like, "Did you mean to say that out loud?" Now the spotlight's not on you. It's right back at them. And so every time they say something hurtful, they're wanting the dopamine. They're wanting that response from you. They feel that control that they get. They're wanting that spotlight on you. Say, "Hey, everybody, look at what I just said to so-and-so." And when you can— And half the time other people laugh.

Yes, they do. Right. And when you can let that just fall, as if you're— like, if you said something hurtful to me and instead I— instead of catching it, Jamie, instead of me catching it and throwing it back, which is what so many people do, they grab onto it and I got to do something with it. I have to hit it back over the net. I have to send it right back to them. Instead, you just have the choice. You throw a pitch, let it go by. There's things called balls and strikes. It's a bad pitch. You don't got to swing at it. You don't have to hit it back over the net. You just let their words words fall to the ground, which allows you to, in that moment, which is given to you by the breath, that pause to say, this is the message you're sending when you pause like that to say, are you sure that's what you wanted to say? There's a power in just letting their words sit there. Because often when you don't say anything, people will say, they'll go, oh, I mean, what I meant to say was, or they'll apologize before they even say anything.

Go, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. The pause says it for you. Without you having to say anything. But when you use questions of what I call intent, or questions of purpose, or, were you wanting to embarrass me? Did you say that to embarrass me? All of a sudden, spotlight goes, womp, right back to the other person. And now they're going to start feeling the heat. And now it's the peer pressure that they're going to be feeling of, yeah, you said something you shouldn't have said. Or what I also encourage people to do when you're in that group setting, get the other people involved, and you're using words like "we" or "did y'all." I'm from Texas, so "y'all's" gonna be what I said. But if somebody says something hurtful, you could easily say, "Did y'all hear what I heard?" That right there is gonna call attention real quickly, not to you, but to the other person. And so I think there is a way that you can use your words to embolden the group, which they're trying to use to switch over to your side, side of saying, "What you just said was not acceptable." Two things that you just said are such good tools because I think we so often just play back.

Someone throws that at us, we don't let the ball drop. We think, "Oh, I've gotta hit back." You gotta catch it. I gotta catch it. I gotta swing at it. I gotta get, you know, and it, but then you take it on in you and you're carrying it. And you're saying, "Mm-mm, let it drop." Yeah. And you take your breath and then the pause. And this is big. And I know your new book, "The Next Conversation" with Jefferson Fisher, again, so good. I've read it cover to cover. And this idea of the pause is gonna, people are gonna be hearing this for the first time right now as we say this, as you're talking about it. And it might just seem like, "Oh yeah, pause, I get pause. I press pause on the whatever." No, no, no. The pause, I find it personally, Jefferson, I find, pausing and just letting there be is one of the hardest things to do.

It is hard.

It's one of the hardest things to do, but it is so powerful.

It feels so good.

Oh my gosh. And also like everyone, okay, so listening to me and Jefferson right now, think about this. When's the last time you had a conversation with somebody or were in a room with people or in a meeting and there was all of a sudden just like silence or pause? There almost never is. And when there is mid-conversation, woo!

People listen.

They listen. And it's just, and your emotions, even when you look at someone in the eye and if you're not talking, and it's just like that pause, I mean, it's such a thing. And so you're saying leverage that.

Yeah.

Because this is huge, okay? Because everyone, and if you're listening to us and you're like, yeah, I have this happen to me all the time. This person said that, that person, you know, and you're taking it on, That's not good. That's not good. And you can start applying this right now by just letting the ball drop, taking your breath, doing the pause, and then either saying something back if it's a one-on-one or involving even the group that sort of like you said, draws that line in the sand, like, you know, that this is your boundary. And then they backpedal. Like, that's the thing that happens, that pause. 'Cause I'm thinking of times whenever that's happening in communications that I've had, And if you just pause, it almost gives that person like an, "Oh, oh crap." And then they start backpedaling and then they almost apologize before it even happened.

They start filling in that space for you.

Yeah, this is so good because so many people, Jefferson, they keep hitting back and it becomes this multi-year-long thing. There's friend groups where, you know, picking on each other is sort of a thing that just happens. But maybe not everyone likes it and maybe everyone's taking it on and it hurts them and they're just burying it or it's happening in families. It's happening if they go to Thanksgiving, they're dreading it 'cause so-and-so's gonna do this thing again and then say they're just joking and da-da-da-da-da. And the next year it's the same, the next year it's the same. These are tools right now that shift the dynamic and give you your power.

Oh yeah, and you always keep it. When somebody's saying something hurtful to you, What's more powerful? Who's the more controlled person? If somebody says something hurtful and I go, "Me? What about you?" And I throw it right back at them, I come back with that zinger. That's one way. Or they say something hurtful and I let it fall to the ground, putting my breath in place and having that pause and asking a question like, "Did you say that to be hurtful? Did you want that to hurt?" Now it's a totally different dynamic. I have responded to their comment without responding to it. I just asked them to audit what they did. I'm now using my words as a mirror for them so they can hear exactly what they said. Like, and this can apply not only in the workplace but also at home. Like, my daughter, um, she hates for her hair to be combed. Hates it. It's always a fight. But when I was like, uh, Rue, I need you to, um, it's time to do your hair. And she'd be like, oh, Dad, okay. But she knows it's not appropriate behavior. And instead of getting upset, getting mad, I just looked at her and just was silent.

Without me saying anything, she goes, sorry. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that, that silence is— I didn't have to do anything. And so often that's, that's the whole point, is just because they threw something at you, you get the entire choice of catching it. Because what happens is people will catch it and they'll hold on to it for years.

Yes.

There are people that are listening right now that you are holding something that you caught when you were 5 years old, when you were 10 years old at school. The mean girl at school said this and you are still holding on to it. They— somebody said something to you in junior high that hurt your feelings, that said something about your hair or your weight or your size. And you've held onto it forever. And the whole point of what we're saying here is the pause of that, of knowing where you are, to let that go. You don't need to carry any of it. The same power you had to allow you to catch it, you, everybody has the same power to let it go.

So good, so good. And you know, there's gonna be so many people who are hearing this for the first time, realizing they're still holding that thing in their body.

Everybody is, yeah.

Right? And if we don't learn how to not catch that thing, not catch the ball, let it drop.

Yeah.

Like, it just keeps stacking and stacking. This is so huge. It's so, so good. And it's gonna change so many lives today. It already has mine. I'm already thinking about the ways I'm gonna apply this right now. I'm so grateful for these tools. Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. Please share it. Share this with every single person you know because it can change their life too. Make sure to pick up Jefferson's new book, The Next Conversation: Argue Less, Talk More, and check out his brand new Jefferson Fisher School of Communication. We'll link it in the show notes. And if you love today's episode too, well, my only ask is you please click on the follow or subscribe button for the show. On the app that you're listening or watching it on, then give it a 5-star review, and then share this episode with everyone you believe in. Share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it. Post it and share it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today. You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode.

Just thank you so much for joining me. And before you go, I wanted to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You, right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. It's an honor to welcome you to each episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show, and here I hope you'll come as you are and heal where you need, blossom what you choose, journey toward your calling, and stay as long as you like because you belong here. You are worthy, you are loved, you are love, and I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. Do you struggle with negative self-talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit. The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful, and when you learn to take control over your self-talk, it's life-changing. And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life.

It's called 5 Ways to Overcome Negative Self-Talk And Build Self-Love, and it's a free how-to guide to overcome that negative self-talk, to build confidence and develop unshakable self-love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self-sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life, one filled with self-love, resilience, and Unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence, and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekernlima.com/resources or click the link in the show notes below. Who you spend time around is so important. So important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration, which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiekernlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your One-on-One with Jamie weekly newsletter newsletter and get ready to believe in you.

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The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on worthybook.com. It's such an honor to share this podcast together with you, and please note, I'm not a licensed therapist and this podcast This podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.