Transcript of Episode #130 Featuring Ulrich Dempfle, CO-FOUNDER of Carol Bike! STOP OVERTRAINING! The ReHIT Revolution! How to maximize your results in a fraction of the time! New

All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Dylan Gemelli Podcast. So I am excited as can be today because the things that we're going to talk about are right in my Fitness Wheelhouse, and I've got the, the man that I am really, really delighted to share some different aspects of training with you today. And science side, health side, we're gonna get into it all. So you may already know once you hear the name of the company, but we're gonna give you some of his credentials. So he's the CEO and co-founder of Keral, and this is built on his background in mechanical engineering. To develop the world's only reduced exertion high-intensity interval training bike. He heads up all aspects of product development at CAROL, from the data to the science to software and hardware. So he is exactly the person that I wanted to talk to because I've been using the CAROL bike, fell in love with it, then met him and really fell in love with it because he's so awesome. So everybody, welcome Ulrich Denfel.

Thank you so much, Dylan. It's a pleasure to be here.

It's really good to connect with you, man. We had some really good conversation before learning about the bike, and I was really blessed to have the opportunity to speak with you because I got some extra in-depth insight and information. So we are about to get into some detail here, my friend. But first, before we get into different key aspects of training and what you're trying to do here. Let's talk about your background a little bit first and how that brought you to finding the Carrell Bike, and let's get some insight there on how we, we got to this point.

Sure. So I came to the bike and to Rehit by, by chance. This was a lucky coincidence. I'm a mechanical engineer, as you've said, but actually most of my life I worked, um, in healthcare with hospitals, with payers, trying to make care better. And the, the number one thing there is prevention, so trying to stop people getting sick in the first place. That's, that's where you can make the biggest difference. And if you look at what's really effective for prevention, it's exercise. That's the number one thing. If it, if it was a pill that you could prescribe, it would be like the mega blockbuster. And the only issue with it is that very, very few people actually do it. So if you look at serious studies, they show if you strictly measure, only 5% of Americans get the recommended dose of exercise each week. So we, we all know how important exercise is, but we just struggle to do it. And for us, this was really relevant because we, we've been setting up programs for people with chronic diseases, with heart disease, type 2 diabetes. And, and for those populations, for those patients, exercise would be so important.

But even if the doctor prescribes it, it's really hard to get people to exercise. Mm-hmm. And then we came across the science of REHIT. Yeah. Reduced exertion, high intensity interval training. And, and that was like a light bulb. I mean, literally a life-changing moment for, for me, for my co-founders, because we thought this is something that can really move the needle. Um, for many individuals and for, for, for the whole population, because if you ask people why they don't exercise, the number one reason is lack of time. And that's exactly what, what Rehit solves, because you can do basically the most efficient, a very, very effective workout in as little as 5 minutes. And so that lack of time problem is just, um, taken away.

So let me ask you something here.

Mm-hmm.

This is related to, to my thinking and helping somebody like myself to overcome this problem. So I am of the ilk because of how I've trained my whole life that, you know, it takes these long durations of training to get the most out of it. Yeah. And I've been doing that since the beginning of my existence, I think, cuz my dad started training me when I was 3 and back then it was really focused on endurance, long distance running, that type of training. Now with what you're doing, and correct me if I'm wrong, we're trying to take like what we think we would get out of a 45-minute workout and knock it down to like 5, 7 minutes. Is that, am I right in saying that?

That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So. We, and this is not just us claiming it, there's very, very solid, very robust scientific research behind it that proves that this 5 minutes can be, or is as effective as a 45 to 60 minute run. Um, and so if, if time is an issue for you, then that's obviously a great thing. Now, I don't blame you at all. We, we all grew up with no pain, no gain. And somehow the image of, of somebody sweating in Lycra or in, in your sports clothes is, is that's what we've come to believe cardio should look like or what, what exercise should look like. But it's just, that's one way of doing it. It's certainly not the most efficient way of doing it. And there are smarter, more intelligent ways of training. That can give you the same benefits in much, much less time.

I love it. It's hard. Like, so it, let's look at this from the mental perspective. How do you take somebody like myself and convince them that this is going to work? Is it just by get on the bike and do this, try it and don't do anything else and compare and contrast? Or how do you, how do you convince somebody that's got a thick skull like myself, for example, on, on doing this?

Yeah. So there's different people, different approaches, but if you, if you love your science and your papers, you can go to our website, carobite.com. There's a ton of resources about the science, links to all the original papers. Just last summer, a fantastic new paper, gold standard methodology from McMaster's University in Canada published that beyond any doubt the claims that we're making. So this is done on our equipment. This is the most prestigious research facility in exercise physiology in this field and very, very rigorous. So the scientific data is there. The other thing is, yes, you just try it because we say now, oh, 5 minutes. And I don't blame anyone who says like, oh, 5 minutes, that can't be. But let's go into this. Once you do it and once you've experienced it yourself, you will understand how this is effective because with a REHIT workout, you basically trade time for intensity. So in a REHIT workout, it's 5 minutes or maximum 8 minutes, 40 seconds, but as little as 5 minutes. But it's, there's a gentle warmup. A very mild recovery and a very mild cooldown. They're so light you almost don't notice that you're pedaling.

But then there's— and I've experienced it.

Yeah, yeah. There's two 20-second sprints. So you only work hard for two 20-second sprints. And there the bike is optimized for you to reach really your maximum intensity level. So for two very short periods, 20 seconds, you push all out. You, you're pushing to your limits and that just creates a different physiological response than long endurance training. And I tell you, like everybody who tries it after they've tried it, and we, we tell them like, actually everybody starts with two 10-second sprints to, um, to, to kind of work towards the two 20-second sprints. You immediately understand why this is effective because yes, going all out for two 20-second periods, um, that, uh, it, it gets your heart rate, uh, really elevated. You breathe heavily. Um, and so the, the, this, this, uh, old wisdom, no pain, no gain, there's a little bit of truth in that. There's a little bit of truth in that. Um, so on a carob bike, you, you know, there's, uh, it's, it's hard to go all out for 20 seconds, 2 20 seconds, but at least it's very, very short. And what I like to say, what it's like for me is I can see the light at the end of the tunnel as soon as I've started.

It's basically the first 10 seconds, I don't even notice that I'm sprinting. It's like a slight, the deceptive. And then like 10 to 15, that's, oh, it's getting harder. And the last 5 seconds are really quite hard. But I know it's only 5 seconds. If I go for a run, which I also do, if I want a decent time, I have to push myself every single step. So the mental load, the mental load is much, much higher here. It's, uh, with Rehit, the mental load is very, very low because it's so short. And yeah, basically as soon as you're on the bike, you're almost off the bike again. And, uh, in the sprints, as soon as you've started, you see you have the end right in front of you. So you, you're getting to the finish line really quickly. And so, so that makes it easier. Yeah.

That's what I want to ask you too, because I've really taken a strong focus on the mental side. In usage with the athletic side because they play such a key component here. And you have to think when you're really doing something fitness-wise and athletically, your mentality's really controlling your ability to go further and longer and, you know, more consistently, cuz your mind can shut you down or can motivate you. So here's, here's a question for you because once again, I'm gonna relate this to myself, but I'm sure there's a bunch of people that feel this way. When I get done with a long cardio session, I feel this, no matter how many times I do it, I feel this rewarding feeling of I just accomplished something that was, that was difficult, no matter how many times I do it. And that's, I think that some people don't understand that when they say they get a high or something off of the training that they do, the feeling of accomplishment is part of that. Do you get that same sense and that same feeling when you do like a, you know, 5, 6, 7-minute session on the bike?

Do you, do you find that you get that as well?

So for me, absolutely. Yes. Because while the exertion is in total low, you do push momentarily to your limits and the recovery. Yeah. I even need some time to recover afterwards. And absolutely, I have that sense of accomplishment. In fact, so I do this, I'm so sorry. Um, I do this, uh, every other day, first thing in the morning, and it's just a great start to the day. Um, because you, you've, you've backed your first win. And so, uh, I very much see that this is, you know, a, a, a perfect way for morning routine, for example. To, to get into a winning day.

Well, and, and this is one of the things I like about it because one of the kickbacks that I often get from people and clients and people that are asking me, well, how do I do this? Because I don't have enough time, which I, I don't like that excuse. I'm gonna leave that alone for now. But this is, yeah, this is a good strong way to overcome it because yeah, everybody's got 5 minutes.

Correct. Absolutely. Yes. So, so that excuse doesn't count anymore. The time component is just that, that's taken away and you don't even have to do it. So the recommendation is to do it 2 to 3 times per week. It depends a little bit what your objectives are, what you're trying to achieve. The whole list of benefits is very, very long because exercise has so many benefits and, and this is a very, very efficient, very effective exercise, but the, the The headline benefits is one VO2 max improvement, so improves your cardiorespiratory fitness. It improves your VO2 max, your ability to, to burn oxygen. And the other is improving your metabolic health, preventing things like type 2 diabetes and making sure you're metabolically healthy. Those are the headline benefits and you get very, very substantial improvements in a short amount of time. And if you're, if you're more focused on VO2 max and cardiorespiratory fitness, 2 times per week is even enough. So 2 times a week, 5 minutes, that's what you need. If you're looking for metabolic health, then, um, 3 times a week, maybe even every other day, 3 to 4 times per week is optimal because the effects are slightly shorter-lived.

So that the training effect for VO2 max is, is more a longer-lasting effect and the health benefits for metabolic health. That's a more acute effect. And so you, you'd want to do that more, uh, regularly.

Got it. So let's talk about VO2 max. One of the things that I've really studied quite a long time is VO2 max, but more recently, I'd say the past 6 months to a year, there's been a lot of people talking about how relative that, that number is in terms of our lifespan. And our heart health in general. Can you talk a little bit about how important VO2 max is in multitudes of ways? And it's more than just what people have defined it for in the past.

Absolutely. If you had to pick one health marker to, to look at and to focus on, VO2 max is probably the best one to take. So VO2 max is the strongest predictor. Strongest correlate for life expectancy. And so that's one thing. And then to, to put some color around that, so, uh, there, there's big studies with tens of thousands of participants that have shown that low cardiorespiratory fitness, so low VO2 max, leads to more avoidable deaths than smoking, diabetes, and obesity. Combined, combined all 3 of them. So, and that's when people think about, oh, why should I exercise? Historically, people thought like, oh, I should lose a bit of weight. I should do some exercise. But there's so much more. So of course it helps with weight management, but in terms of longevity and energy to live a fulfilled life. VO2 max and exercise offers just so much more. So yeah, VO2 max is really, really profound. If you improve your VO2 max by 10%, for most people that means adding 2 years of healthy life expectancy. Yeah. So, so you can make a big difference with that. And now here's the thing, you, you really don't need too much.

So there's study after study has shown that with this exercise, with REHIT, so in, in the academic studies, usually it's done 3 times per week, that participants see an improvement of 12% in their VO2 max in the first 8 weeks of training. So that's more than 2 years of healthy life expectancy. After only 8 weeks of training. And it doesn't stop there. So other studies have shown about 20% improvement after 20 weeks. And if you, if you continue doing that, I mean, that we have case studies where, where people improve their VO2 max by 50%. In fact, that happened to me when I, I started using the bike. Maybe it was from a low base, but you can see very, very profound improvements. In a short period of time. These are not first the bike, but this is something we try to do is it gives you, it's highly quantified. So you get your dashboards afterwards and you can really track your progress very, very precisely. And you see from ride to ride and over time how you get better. But the improvement is for most people so profound you absolutely feel it. So it's nice to have all the dashboards and the metrics, but you very much also just feel it because it's, it's such a significant change.

I love it. And this is it. I'm so glad you broke this down cuz I've talked to a lot of people about this, but they haven't explained it as well as you just did and how important this is. E, cuz see, when I started getting into VO2 max and, and things of that nature, I only looked at it from one set and like, oh, this is going to help my endurance. I can go forever, but I wasn't seeing it. Cause this was, I mean, I started kind of getting into that more in like the middle 2000s, you know, nobody was really talking about what you're talking about and the studies and everything. And so conveying this message to people, I think between you and I, especially as we, as we, you know, go through our journey of helping people, we need to focus on this aspect of it because we're talking about lifespan. Hair and, and not just living, but not just living longer, it's quality of life too, right?

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. That it's, it's kind of healthspan. It's, it's quality of life. Absolutely. Because you, you just, you have more energy. So what happens if you, if you look at what, like what affects your VO2 max, your ability to burn oxygen. So there's, there's two big sides to it. One is oxygen delivery. So that's how strong your lungs are, how strong your heart is, how much blood your, uh, heart pumps with each stroke, how good your blood vessels are. So that's oxygen delivery. And, and there's good studies on that, uh, to show how this workout, how REHIT improves that. And then the other side is oxygen consumption, and that happens all on a cellular level. That happens in your mitochondria in the cells. So those are the, the powerhouses in your cells that burn oxygen. And Rehit triggers a very, very strong signal to your body that it has to grow more and larger and more efficient mitochondria. And this happens all in the two 20-second sprints. And so That is what improves your VO2 max and what gives you more energy, or what gives you more energy for life and for, for all the other activities you're, uh, involved in.

And that's really quite clever. So what happens in, in those true sprints, we're basically, we're, we're simulating an emergency situation, something like as if you had to, to run for your life or fight for your life. You pick it, you pick the scenario. You create a massive spike in energy demand compared to rest. So your energy demand in your biggest muscle groups, in your quads, in your glutes, goes up by a factor of 100 compared to rest. And that's obviously much more than— no, your body can provide that with certain energy systems. So not your normal aerobic energy system., but, um, your body is forced to mobilize lots of glycogen. So glycogen is a storage form of sugar stored in your muscles. And because your, your body doesn't know how, whether this is a 20-second sprint or 3-minute sprint, or whether it has to fight for the next 10 minutes, it mobilizes lots and lots of glycogen, about 25 to 30%, which is a phenomenal amount. As that is mobilized, as that is taken out of the it stores in the muscle. Other molecules get released as well. So there's something called AMP that gets mobilized with the glycogen.

It gets activated to AMPK, which then activates something, and I apologize, it's, it's called PGC-1α, which is your body's master regulator for mitochondrial biogenesis. So for the process of developing more and larger and more efficient mitochondria. And all of this happens in two 20-second sprints. And so the fascinating thing is if you go for a run for an hour, you, you also activate and release PGC-1α, just you use a different pathway. Um, and in REHIT you use this, um, AMPK pathway, which is very, very efficient, is extremely quick. And therefore, I think I, I can say that with total confidence that there's no more efficient cardio workout. So there's, um, there's other effective cardio workouts, no question. Norwegian 4x4s. If you do endurance training, endurance runs, of course you will also get fitter. But in terms of efficiency, how much you gain for your time, for your effort. There's just nothing that is that efficient. So that's, that's really something that sets Rehead apart. And there's even, so this is where it gets crazy. When you, so 2x20 seconds, if you think I'll be, I'll be extra brave, I'll do 3x20 seconds, or I'll do, I'll do 5x20 seconds.

No, the, the data shows that if you do more or longer sprints, You get worse results. Wow. So, uh, and so the, the data is absolutely clear that you don't get better results and the data is indicative that you probably get worse results. And this is slightly puzzling. Um, our academic partners, the professors there presume that this is all linked to psychology. So if you know that you have to do 5 sprints and they're like 40 seconds each. You just don't push to your limit. You, you hold back, you go like 80%, 90%. And with Rehit on a Caro bike, it's really easy to go to 100%. I would, I would even say we've designed the bike. You, you don't even notice at first that you're going to 100%. And therefore you push momentarily to your limits. And that just makes you fitter and stronger and sends this very powerful signal to your body that it has to get fitter and stronger.

That falls under the more is not always better concept, which I have to adhere to often, and I have to teach people that as well. But that, it's so true. And I'm so glad you pointed that out because, you know, somebody like myself or people that train heavy, it, you're gonna have the tendency to like, oh, I'll just do some more. I'll just do more and that, that falls into overtraining, correct?

Yes, absolutely. It can. I mean, if you do very low intensity zone 2 training, mm-hmm, in some situations that also has its case. And if you, if you're doing it at that low intensity, I don't think you'd fall into overtraining. If you have the time, if you enjoy it, that's, that's also fine. It's just less efficient if you do high intensity at like 4 hours. Yes. Then you're, very quickly and overtraining, and you'll get all sorts of like, like your body will be flooded with stress, uh, and cortisol, and you'll have other issues to cope with. Okay.

Well, that brings up very good points that I hope everybody listens to because if you're only going 5 minutes, then it's very easy to do. Now, the design of the bike, because when I first heard about it, I hadn't seen it. This was a while ago. And I was like, you know, it was, we were moving to a new house and my wife was saying, ah, we don't need more stuff in our house. We don't own more stuff. But then when we saw it, it was like, man, this is not big. It's going to fit perfectly. And now I have it sitting outside and it's facing my swimming pool. And it's just, I mean, it is so perfect, but talk about the size of it. And it's not that heavy either. You think stationary or bike that it's You're never gonna pick it up or anything like that. So structurally, how did you guys, you know, come up with this and why do, why is it so much more efficient in how it's built?

Yeah, so it's, it's a very high quality exercise bike, but there are a few really special things about it. Um, we've always tried to keep the footprint so that it could fit into, into most people's home. You need basically 2 foot by 4 foot. That's really not very large. It's a, it's an entirely commercial grade, gym grade exercise bike. So those bikes are used in commercial facilities where they get 5,000 rides per year. And it has to be a very robust and sturdy build because you go all out. So you exert maximum intensity and we've got some big users on there. Got some rugby players, some football players who, who churn out scary amounts of force. And then what sets it apart is, is that it's basically fully automated. You don't have a button to twist and change the resistance. The bike does that all for you. And it does it in a way that makes it, um, as safe and as simple as possible to, to get to your limit. You, you could try to do it on a regular exercise bike and I'm pretty certain you'll be disappointed. So when we, because the science existed before we started to build the CAROL bike, initially researchers, universities, academics did this on specialized research equipment.

And in fact, when we first heard about it, this was on a, on a BBC science program. I, I was so excited. I went the, the very next day into an equipment store and bought myself a standard exercise bike, but it was almost impossible to do this type of workout. And so we contacted the researchers, they invited us to their lab and showed us the equipment. And those were bikes that were like $10,000, $15,000, and they were operated by a second person. So to, to get this right, you need the optimal resistance for you. You need to accelerate to a high pedal cadence at a low resistance, and then your optimum resistance has to kick in very rapidly once you've reached basically your, your cruising speed. And, and previously in the labs, that's what, um, a lab technician did. Um, but that's obviously not practical for a regular user. And so, um, we, we thought, oh, we can build a bike that fully automates that, that basically includes that lab technician through the electronics, through our AI, um, and have a computer-controlled, AI-controlled bike that optimizes the resistance and coaches you through the workout for each user.

And that way we, we can create a entirely personalized workout that also adjusts as you get fitter and stronger for a phenomenally broad set of people. So my mother, my mother is 83. She's just probably one of our most frequent users. She uses it every other day, religiously, always texts me her scores afterwards. That's great. But we have, we have professional athletes on it. And, and gym owners and people who, yeah, just phenomenally 10 times the, the power output of my mother, maybe even more. And so we can tailor that very, very precisely to each individual. And it will get more challenging as you get fitter and stronger. And if you've, for some reason also, you had an injury or took a break or so, it will also adjust. So you have a highly personalized. And, and very, very simple to perform, very efficient, like most efficient workout that you can do in, in very, very little time.

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So I like the concept of always mixing things up and shocking your body. So doing this for me at like 3 times a week and then mixing in the longer distance cardio, that way you're always shocking your body doing it. Is that a good fit or do you think like that's overdoing it? And also when it comes to weight training, is it fine to weight train on the days you do this and mix in some other things? Because we don't, obviously don't want to overtrain. So what's your thinking on. Those kind of different aspects of what we're implementing.

No, I think that's entirely fine. Mm-hmm. I would think of it, I would, I would ask myself and everybody who uses it basically, how much time do you have available for exercise? And then stack the different components. And so the, I, I think doing rehab on a Carrow bike is pretty much your highest ROI that you. Can get for your cardio. So that, that would be the first thing I schedule in and would do that 2 to 3 times a week. And then, um, the, the next thing I would, like, if you have another, whatever, half an hour per week, I would do weight training. That would be very clearly my next priority. And there's also ways to do that more efficiently and other ways to do it more casually. So when I'm, when I'm with my son in the gym, we, we take hours, but that's fine because it's social and it's, it's just fun to be together in the gym. Yeah, sure. If I do it at home in the morning, I try to do exercises like whole body exercises, single rep, high load that, that give benefits like really, really quickly. And then no, absolutely.

You can schedule other forms. Of cardio in there as well. And there are different things you can mix in. So if you like other forms of interval training, like Norwegian 4x4s, brutal hard, you come off the bike sweat drenched, which on a rehit ride, most people don't even sweat. So it's, it's that short. But Norwegian 4x4s, absolutely sweat, very effective workout. What we call fat burn rides, which burn a phenomenal amount of calories. So if, if weight management is a priority, then mixing one or two of those in absolutely makes sense. Zone 2. Zone 2. We have a slightly awkward relationship with Zone 2. We have lots of options to do. Yeah, it's, it's one of those. So it's, it's, it, it has its place. Yeah. But we feel that it got a little bit overhyped. Maybe, maybe that's also dying down again, but there, like 2, 3 years ago, everybody was suddenly talking about zone 2 training as if it was the, the, the only thing you should do. And that's is really misguided. It's not your first priority, it's your third or fourth or fifth priority. I agree. Great. Then, then yes, absolutely you can.

And to be honest, zone 2 training, if that involves hiking in the mountains, absolutely. I love it. Just sitting for 90 minutes on a stationary bike. You can, you can. I don't do that very often, but so no, absolutely you can mix things up. And we have, it's just kind of what you make your top priority and what you basically is your foundation layer in the stack. And if you have this REHIT as a foundation layer, you, you have a lot of your cardio covered. With very, very little time. And then you can, then you can add depending on your goals. So weight management, if you just enjoy, so, so there's plenty of people who enjoy going for a run. Wonderful. Do it. It's perfect. Just not everybody.

Okay. So I'm a, I'm a big data guy and I'm a big guy that likes to read the science. So I appreciate what you've done and put out and how accessible it is to prove what you do. So let me ask you this. There's a lot of people that focus on calorie amounts, calorie intake, calorie burn. I mean, it's hard not to. I try to teach people to, to be careful about doing it over, over too much, you know, in their mental side of things that can cause problems. But let's face reality, that's really important data. So one of the things that I found when I started researching the bike was that a lot of the calorie burn happened after the workout. Yeah. So it's, if I'm remembering correctly, it was about for up to 3 hours after the workout, your me— you boost your metabolic rate. Am I right? You're close to right in that?

Yes, absolutely. And it's called EPOC. It's excess post-exercise oxygen consumption. Um, yeah, we have, again, this is independently tested. By one of our academic partners, basically putting people on the bike and then having them wear breathing masks where you, where you measure exactly how much oxygen you take in, how much CO2 you, you exhale, and you know exactly how much calories they burned. And you have for 120 to 180 minutes elevated calorie burn after the exercise. And in fact, For REHIT, it's 66-70% of the total calorie burn comes in the 2 hours after the workout. So after you've got out off the bike, so we can put some numbers in because for, for REHIT, we can quantify so that the bike will tell you not only what your calorie consumption was during the 5 minutes, 8 minutes on the bike, but also what your epoch was. So what's the total calories you've burned? And so for, for me, when I do it, I, the, the total calorie consumption is around 210, 215 calories. And that's, that's a meaningful amount. Yeah. It's not, uh, of course if I went for an hour-long run, this would be even more, but it's a meaningful amount.

Like my baseline calorie need is probably something like 2,300. So it's, it's like close to 10% of my daily kind of baseline calorie need. And for, so if weight management is important to you, and let's face it, it's important for many of us. Mm-hmm. It's, it's a helpful thing.

Awesome. So people that are worried about that and tracking it, all of the data's right in front of their face.

Okay, beautiful. And you know, I think, and there's less, this is more my hypothesis. Um, I'm just looking at only experience. I, I do think if you do such workouts and you become metabolically flexible and you're, you're not insulin resistance but have good insulin sensitivity, it's also easier to lose weight and it's easier to fast because you're, you're able to access. So insulin regulates how we store fat and also how we access energy. It's easier to go through a fast because you can tap into your body's fat reserves essentially, and your brain's not screaming at you because it is literally starving, but you you can still feed it and the brain is not screaming at you. There's a secondary thing, a secondary effect, I believe at least, that, that makes it, that makes it helpful for weight management. I do think the number one for weight management is obviously what you eat and how much you eat. That's like, there's no amount of exercise that if your food intake is out of control, there's, there's no amount of exercise that can fix that.

No.

If you, if you, um, look after your nutrition, then exercise is obviously helpful.

Yeah. You, I always say this, you cannot outwork a bad diet no matter how much you think you can. You cannot do it.

Have you heard the term exercise bulimia? So yes. Where, where people either, either kind of work up credits.

Yeah.

Go for half an hour run so they can have that muffin. Or have that muffin first and then try to run it off. So yeah, that's not the best way to deal with it. Um, it's obviously, it's, it's, uh, it's good. But, but yeah, it's better to, to have, have a proper way of eating and proper nutrition and then use the exercise as a helpful support for that. And it use the exercise really to, to give you energy and give you longevity. Which, which is so fantastic at.

Yes. 'Cause people don't understand internally, you might be able to maintain weight eating crap and working out hard, but internally what you're doing and metabolically what you're doing, it's, it's a disaster short and long term. So I always like to make that a point that I don't care how much you work out, the diet starts everything that you're doing and controls that aspect of it. So That poses me to the next question then, because I live in the weeds. I've been a nutritionist for, I don't, almost what now, 20 years, I guess. I can't believe how fast the time flies. So I, I have this back and forth about fasted workouts and then carb timing and all of this. Can you talk a little bit about what your, and everybody's different. So I just want to make this clear to everybody, one size fits none here, but just in general overall, what kind of dietary methodologies do you have when it comes to training on the bike?

Yeah, sure. So I know this is somebody, a question that many people would like a definitive answer. There's not really one and it comes down to preference. What I like and what I do is to do it in a relatively fasted state. So first thing in the morning. Maybe have a glass of water, but before I have breakfast, uh, before I eat anything, or if I skip breakfast, then yeah, then even longer because it just feels nicer to me. It feels nicer to me and I even think it suppresses hunger a little bit. So if I do, uh, time-restricted eating, I find the, the workout helps me extend that. That window. I mean, I don't do it too excessively, but I don't feel straight after the workout I should now, rah, rah, rah, refeed immediately. Yeah. That's, that's, that's just not how it feels to me. I feel it's, it's nicer to do it fasted. It's nicer to do it in the, in the morning. And that's, that's my routine and routine and consistency is, I mean, that's ultra important. I mean, as you can have the most beautiful exercise equipment, you can have the most scientific AI-powered workout, you still have to do it.

So adherence, adherence is like the most important thing in exercise. And I believe having a, a fixed routine, how to do it is, is very, very helpful in that. Therefore, if you have a bike at home, it obviously helps if you, if you have it at the same time each day or every other day so that it just becomes second nature. Don't think about having a shower. You don't think about brushing your teeth. You don't think about hopping on the bike because it's so quick. And then that's a very, very good way to build that, like a healthy habit, a winning habit. And so I would always prioritize that. Yeah.

Totally agree. And that's why I like having Serenity, having the bike where you can look outside with it. Even you could even put it outside realistically, like when you live in Arizona, or I do, it's, it's, it's perfect. So it's, there's, there's a lot of facets there beyond the physical, like we were talking about with the mental that correlate together. And that's why I like it so much is because it's good on the mind. And when you have something that's kind of soothing on your mind, And, and still provides that sense of accomplishment. It really works quite well together and it sets you up for success throughout your day because it gives you such a good start to your day. I would really, I wanted to see what you say, but I encourage people to do it in the morning because it kind of sets a standard for your day and sets you up for success.

Yes, exactly that. Exactly that. I think there's research that shows that if you, if you make your bed first thing in the morning, you have you have a better day. So there's, there's just like winning habits and this is, this is one of them or can be one of them that just sets you up for success. Exactly that.

I agree. Let me ask you this. So when it comes to like bikes and, and things that you do at home, I mean, there's always been exercise bikes at the gym since I can remember being born. But I, I feel like that Peloton was like the first one that came kind of more mainstream that was like a big deal. Yeah. How did you, do you find them to be one that you are a competitor with or what, what's the difference between them and, and the Carrow bike? Because for me, I've used both and I'm not saying this because you're on here. I find a significant difference of what I get out of it and, and comfort and enjoyment. It's pretty, pretty significant in my view. And like I said, I'm not saying that because you're on here. I've made that statement clear multiple times without you here. Before I ever even met you. So can you just, and I'm not asking you to bash them or anything like that. I'm just talking, I've got a different—

I wouldn't. So Peloton, they've done a fa— they've got a great product and they've done a fantastic job. Um, now their bike is, or their value proposition is around celebrity instructors, great soundtrack, and a sense of kind of online community. Now, or, or like doing it in a group from the comfort of your home. That's, that's very clearly not our key proposition. Our proposition is getting you maximally efficient, scientifically backed AI personalized workouts that you can do in no time at all. That's, that's our core value proposition. Having said that, you can do Peloton rides on our bikes, so you, you can have multiple different apps. Yes. Yeah. So we're, we're, Peloton is pretty much a locked ecosystem and you couldn't run other apps on there. With a Carole bike, we, we're not a locked ecosystem. You can have, like, there's a bunch of other cycling apps. So Swift, Rouvy, there's people who have like a carbon road bike and Lycra cycling pants. They love to use that and that's all available on the bike. Um, and if you, if you want to mix in Peloton because you, you like the music and sometimes you want to have a, a lower intensity kind of fun workout, then that's also fine where you have the option.

And so do we compete with Peloton? Well, in some ways, yes. In some ways, no. We, we do completely different things. We compete in a way because few people have two bikes in their home. And so we, we'd love them to have a Caro bike at home. That's obviously the thing. But, um, no, it's a very different thing and we wish them all the best and good luck in their endeavors and we are trying hard to, to do well in ours.

Well, you know what, one, without competition, there is not, not much success of any kind. So that's a beautiful thing. And it's, I, I'm a, I'm always the proponent of everybody has options, but you said it, this was my interpretation and you said it, I feel like that one is more driven on fun and environment as opposed to results. I'm not saying they don't care about results, but I'm saying primarily Carol, to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, seems more results-driven. And not that it's not fun either, but there's more, I don't know, I feel more comfortable on your bike and I feel like I get a better workout as opposed to that one where I feel like it's more catered to let's go have some fun.

Yes, exactly that. So very clearly our customers, I think, come to exercise with more purposefully. They have very specific goals. They want to improve their VO2 max, they want to improve their metabolic health, and want to do that in very little time. And they want to have scientifically validated, maximally efficient workouts. So yes, absolutely. That results component, um, seeing the benefits, feeling the benefits is, is very much at the center of what we offer and what people seek, what people want when they get one of our bikes.

And I want to say this too about, because I've, I'm a big gym equipment person. I have an elliptical, I have a treadmill, and I have the bike. And when I buy things, I'm, as I've gotten older, I've become way more calculated. And what I mean by that is I'm a former model. So I used to buy really high-end clothes that I would wear like twice a year. You buy all of these things and you spend all this money on them, but you don't really get any ROI back on it. But when you buy a piece of equipment like this and you use it every day, not only am I looking at it on the usage aspect, but I'm talking about what it's doing for you physically and mentally. This stuff, you look at it and it's like it costs you a penny a day. It's like it— there is no price tag on it when it comes to investing into certain things. Things. So when I look at things like this, it's like this is a no-brainer to me because I know there's always hurdles when you have to buy a larger piece of equipment, but this is like, it pays for itself so quickly and everything that you get from it.

So I always like to put that out there. You get what you pay for in life, right?

But yes, and, um, so I think we're still, you know, uh, obviously we're not the cheapest bike on the market, but we, we have priced ourselves, we want to be eventually, uh, in every home. We really want to move the needle on cardiorespiratory fitness, on cardiovascular health for the whole population. That would be our ambition. And therefore we are not, um, you know, the, the, the Gucci and LVMH price level. We, it's, it's a, I think in terms of what you're getting, it's very reasonable.

I agree 100%. And that's why I wanna make sure I point that out is when you're looking at anything, you need to look at how much am I using this and how does that factor into the cost and what am I getting out of it in general? And then it's like the massage chair I bought. It was very, very, very expensive when I bought it. But guys, I use it every single night. It was like, wow, this is— that pays for itself. So last question for you is what's, what's the vision now moving forward? Is there anything new that you're doing? What's your desire with the brand and the company? Just longer term, aside from having this in everybody's, every single person's home? I mean, what's the, what's the future look like for Carol?

Yes. So, um, one is we still have a way to go to have, because this is, you know, we've been talking about it now for some time and people need to be convinced. So we have still a journey in front of us to really get the word out and to explain why and how you can have such an efficient workout in just 5 minutes. So that's, that's one for us. We have other things in the cooker. So there's, there's software enhancements. So the, the bikes are obviously all connected. Every, every couple of months we have new releases, new workouts. As the, as the science, science evolves, the bike evolves. And then yes, we're, we're looking very actively also into other modalities and we'd love to do something in strength. I can't say too much about that yet, but we, we really, so we believe that strength training is also super important. So cardio is obviously is, is wonderful, but strength is also something, especially for women. Yeah. I, I always recommend, yeah, lift some weights too. And they're also, they're, they're smarter ways to do it. So yeah, watch this space. We'll, we'll be there.

Excellent.

Well, you know, I'm gonna be one of the first people to know, 'cause I'm gonna, I'm, I'm putting you on the spot to, that you have to tell me so I can be ahead of the curve, please.

Absolutely. Yes, yes, yes.

I love, love what you do, man. I love the care that you put behind it. I love the science and your ability to convey exactly what people need to know. It's not marketing BS and nonsense and false claims. There's so much science, there's so much care. So much time. I, I desire so much to have more people like you around that do such, such amazing work with care for others first. So I just want you to know how much it's appreciated, not just by me, but for everybody, and that I can talk to people about people like you who are the people that I like to put out there so that people see and know. So thank you for your work and your efforts.

Thank you so much. And this means so much to us because it is really like you're doing a fantastic job and such an important job to tell people about what's available and what's, what's new and what's, what, what's actually real and what is hype. And so that's a, that's a really important mission and we're very, very grateful. Thank you so much.

Absolutely. Well, I have a little link here that I'm going to put in the description. If you guys go to carolbike.com. Dylan, you can go there and take advantage of some offers with Carole Bike that's extra special for you. And all you got to do is click the link and let it do the rest. I'll put that in the description below. And, and also I will put a link down here for some studies on the webpage. And so everybody can go read, because I think that it's so important to learn on your own as well as what we're teaching you and read. It's there for a purpose to educate yourself because because then it, you get more out of what you're doing. So I want to encourage that.

Fantastic. Yeah. Thanks so much.

Thank you so much for coming on here and discussing this with me and taking the time to do it. And for all of your efforts and everybody at Carole Bikes, send, please send my love and, and the appreciation as well. And, I'm looking forward to the future, my friend.

So thank you.

That wraps up another one, everybody. Please, please take a look at my link. Check out the Carrow bike and prioritize health. Stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Gemelli signing off.