Transcript of Episode #102 Featuring Javant Benton! The Author of the Smashing New Book "MAKE YOUR OWN: 120+ Minimally Processed, Oil-Free, Wheat-Free, Sugar-Free, Plant-based Recipes"! HEALTHY VEGAN EATING!

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We got a lot of, of things that we think alike on. He's doing some amazing work and I love to get into the types of topics that he is going to get into today. And I think he's going to teach you guys a lot, but also myself. And I really dig his attitude, his character, the eloquence in which he speaks. So I'm going to give him a little intro here and we're going to get right into it because I want to take advantage of my time with him. So He goes by Healthy Vegan Eating online, so I probably gave away who it is already, but he's a content creator. He's a self-taught cook and healthy eating and lifestyle advocate, and he's been doing this well over 15 years. He has a book coming out that we're gonna get into this month that is gonna really highlight his craft and what he does. And I really urge everybody to check this out. I've been blessed to see a little bit ahead of time, and this man knows his stuff. So I want to present to you my new friend, Javon Benton. Welcome, brother.

Oh, thank you, man. Quite the introduction. I appreciate it, bro.

I'm known for my intros, man.

So I see. Right. You got me feeling myself there for a minute, man.

I like it. Is one thing I don't do is blow smoke, and it is well-deserved. So I appreciate you taking the time today. I know you got a, a ton going on considering your book is coming out very soon, so it's a real pleasure to talk with you and I'm looking forward to sharing you with my audience. So let's start with this. You go by Healthy Vegan Eating online, and I would like to get into why the name and a little bit about your background in terms of what you've kind of overcome and, and what brought you on this journey to get going here.

Yeah, so, um, Healthy Vegan Eating, I decided on that name because there are some people who feel like, uh, by transitioning to a vegan diet in and of itself, you're going to be healthy because you're giving up meat and saturated fat, etc., etc. I don't necessarily agree with that, you know, completely, but I wanted to make sure that there was a distinction made between eating vegan and eating healthy vegan. Because for those who transition from a standard American diet where you're including meat, And you transition to vegan, there's some things you wanna be mindful of to supplement, for example, and things you wanna make sure you're including to cover all your micronutrient bases and getting your vitamins and minerals and those kind of things. So healthy vegan was just kind of a signal to people like, oh, wait a minute, why are you calling it healthy vegan? Then it starts a conversation and then I can enlighten them if they need enlightenment regarding some things that you definitely wanna be mindful of and not just say eliminating animal products means I'm healthy. It doesn't work that way.

I love that. And, and I'm really glad, and this is why I'm thankful to have this conversation with you because I I, I talk a lot about diet and I bring on every walk of life and belief from people that are like super low carb and into more of the only meat diet. And then I got people that are at the polar opposite, love carbs and do this, but I haven't had anybody yet that is more on the vegan side. So I really want to get a lot of facts from you, differences in your belief systems and thoughts on how all of this works. So you bringing up the fact that just because you switched to vegan does not make it healthy. I want to get into that and I would like to hear some of your thoughts on some of your, I don't know, your top recommended foods for vegans on how they work around, you know, their protein intake, keeping it higher. 'Cause that can be a little bit tricky when you're going vegan for some people. And what are some of the foods that you work with a lot to keep people on the healthy side?

Yeah, well, well, the, the good news is, is that there's hundreds, man, if not thousands of foods that you can eat. You know, my goal when I'm eating is to make sure that my micronutrient needs are, are met. A lot A lot of people really focus on macros, you know, the, the fat, the carbs, the, the protein, and, and rightfully so that should be considered. Uh, but it's been proven that micronutrients are where the real, you know, bang for the buck are, you know? And so, um, and when I'm saying micronutrients, I'm including vitamins and minerals and then things like polyphenols and flavonoids and all these other constituents of food, uh, that are really health promoting. One of the big myths, and, and I had this thought too regarding protein before I became vegan, is Well, if I'm not eating meat, where am I gonna get my protein? And, uh, what a lot of people don't understand is that if you are eating a variety of foods, if you're not just eating like, you know, 6 or 7 or 10 different foods, if you're eating a variety of foods, I'm saying on a vegan diet, a variety of foods, and you're meeting your caloric needs, it is difficult not to get enough protein.

Then comes the question, what is enough protein? And, you know, depending on the expert, depending on the expert, you'll get different answers. 'Cause you got someone like Valter Longo and, and his camp saying you need to restrict protein some 'cause methionine, et cetera. And then you have people, uh, like Stu Phillips and, and Don Layman. I don't know if people recognize these names, but these are people who are protein experts and they, they really promote a much higher intake of protein. So it depends on where you fall. The RDA is 0.8. They recently started suggesting 1.2 to 1.6, which is more in alignment with what I go for is 1.6 grams per kilogram. And what I'm saying to you to answer your question directly, It's easy to get that amount of protein as long as you're meeting your caloric needs and you're eating variety of plants. And then I try to be mindful, and this is what I tell people, to include some high protein stuff in there if you're on a vegan diet, like lentils, like beans, like nuts, like seeds, like quinoa, like broccoli. But keep in mind that even a banana has protein.

Now, granted, it's not much, but the point is when you're eating a diversity of foods, everything is giving you some protein. and then you're mindful to also include some things that are high in protein, and you will have zero issues meeting your caloric needs and meeting your protein needs.

So just to go back to that, you said 1.6 to kilogram, not per pound, correct?

Correct. Correct. That 1.2 to 1.6 per kilogram. So that'd be about 0.75 per, per pound.

Per pound. Okay. And, and I come more from the bodybuilding and fitness background for so many years, and you know how they are. They're like, 1.5 to 2 per pound. And so, and also, and I, I'm wondering your thoughts on this when it comes to people that are training heavy that are wanting to bulk up and put on size, then where are you at with the protein intake? Are you still in a similar realm or are you more along the lines of, okay, we gotta jack this up a little bit?

Well, you will need more, but the studies that I've seen say that you, you maximize your muscle gain capacity. At about 1.6. And over that, the gains are so minimal when you go to 1.7, 1.8, 1.9, 2.0. The analogy often used is, you know, if you take a rag with water and you squeeze it out, that you can squeeze out the water easily up to 1.2, 1.6. If you want to get 2.0, you got to really squeeze that thing. So it takes effort to start eating that amount of protein. And the other issue I would have with it and why I would recommend to a friend if they ask not to be looking for it. I'm laughing 'cause that's a lot of protein, you know, 2, 2 grams per, per, per gram of body weight is because to eat that much meat, assuming it's meat-based, you're gonna be raising your IGF-1, your insulin-like growth factor, really, really high. Now insulin-like growth factor is a hormone that we all have, and when we're young we need it because it, it promotes growth. But if you elevate that hormone too much as an adult, what happens is it doesn't just promote muscle growth, but it also promotes other cellular growth.

And so if you have a tumor in your body that your, that your immune system would normally check for you and, and get rid of that, or I should say cancer, if you have cancer cells in your body, and we all do at some point, our immune systems eliminate that. But when your IGF-1 is elevated, then the growth factor 1, the IGF-1 promotes growth so quickly that sometimes that cancer can spread before your immune system can handle it. So all I'm saying in a roundabout way is my concern with eating really, really high amounts of protein is that my IGF-1 is gonna be elevated so high that I'm more prone to get cancer. Doesn't guarantee cancer, but it's gonna make you more prone to get cancer. And then there's other things that come along with that too. The saturated fat and diabetes, you know, downregulating your insulin receptors. So it's just all kinds of things that come with elevated meat consumption. Having said that, I know I'm giving long answers, but I just like to be thorough on details so there's no guesswork to what I'm saying. Having said that, I do concede, although I'm vegan, that, you know, um, a healthy diet— you can have a health-promoting diet with meat involved.

I say don't go over 10 or 15% of total calories in meat. And to make it healthy meat, either grass-fed, or the best of all in my opinion is fatty fish, wild-caught salmon or sardines. But you could construct a very healthy diet that includes some meat. I just used to go vegan.

And by the way, the answers are actually not long-winded and they're very helpful. So please keep doing it because I love the detail. The detail, the attention to detail is the most important because otherwise so many things are left unsaid. So I want you to expound on everything, please. That's why you're here. We need that. So let's do this before we go any further, because there is a lack of clarity on this and there's a lot of misunderstanding. Explain to me what defines a vegan and what is the difference between a vegan and a vegetarian, please?

Yeah, well, a vegan means that you're, you're eating no animal products whatsoever, whereas a vegetarian still includes primarily dairy. So a vegetarian can still eat the, uh, the dairy and the eggs and the cheese and, and that kind of thing. So they're not eating animals per se, but they're eating animal products. So that, that's really the distinction between the two.

So what qualifies a vegan then? No animal products of any kind, no meat. And what is maybe a food or foods that get confused there?

That's a great question. I don't know, man. I mean, I feel like it's pretty, you know, it's pretty straightforward. I mean, no, no animal products, just no, no animal products. It's just nothing. Nope.

No fish, no eggs, no nothing.

That's right. That's right. Now, now, now the really hardcore vegans will say, well, wait a minute. You can't eat honey if you're vegan because honey is produced by bees and is a— and so, and bees are animals and then people eat honey. You're not really vegan if you eat honey. I don't take it that far. I don't take it that far. But I, but Dylan, I'm a live and let live kind of person. So if that's your energy and, and that works for you, that's fine. I just only have issue when you're trying to dictate to others that they're not doing it right because they're eating honey or something like that. But there's not a lot of products that, you know, kind of blur the lines when, if you're vegan, you're vegan, you're not eating animal products.

Okay. Okay, cool. So we're clear there.

Okay.

So then that poses the question, cuz you're cutting out a lot of, a lot of foods when you're going vegan in, in fairness. And, and also I would argue when you go carnivore, you're cutting, you're, you're cutting out some things that I think that you need. I personally think that you're missing out on both ends, but like you said, everybody's different. And that's cool. Whatever works for you. When we're looking at, I want to cover fats and then proteins, cuz I think with a vegan diet you're getting plenty of carbs cuz you're eating a lot of plant-based, you're eating a lot of vegetables. I, you know, would get into, and so I, my assumption is there's no lack of carbohydrates on a vegan diet. Is it, and let's do this, is it possible to, to go ketogenic on a car, on a vegan diet?

Yeah. Well, you know, I, I think it is possible to have a keto diet that's also vegan, but I don't think it's, and, and this is my opinion, possible, or it would be very, very difficult to have a health-promoting vegan diet that is also keto because you're really restricting your carbs. And see, Dylan, this is the thing, man. The labels are so empty because what one person considers a keto diet, practicing a keto diet, someone else is saying that they're practicing keto is doing something totally different. Oh really, dude? I, I don't do any more than 50 grams of carbs. Oh, well I only do 70 grams. So it really, and that's why I talk, you know, in context and, and nuance. I like to talk in detail about these things, man, because it gets, the lines get blurred. But, um, but for me, restricting carbs down to, you know, 5, 10% of total calories, eating high fat and then a moderate amount of protein, which is a typical keto diet, you know, would be difficult to eat a health-promoting diet because the, the, oh shoot, the, uh, vegan portion of your diet is gonna be mostly nuts.

Um, you know, and getting your fat is gonna be nuts and seeds and that kind of thing. But you're leaving out a variety of vegetables that I think are, you know, essential to get all of your nutrients. So can it be done? Yeah, but a lot of things can be done that shouldn't be done. Um, and I would, I, I wouldn't go for it. I wouldn't go for it.

That's, that's my thoughts too. It's the same exact mindset. Could it, could it be done?

Sure.

Should it be done? No. I, I just don't see it. So let's, let's take a look at this cuz I am quite curious and I, I want to break down the macro side of things on everything. So what are some of the key foods that we're looking at to get your amount of fats in when you're on a, a vegan diet? What are some of your favorite foods that you recommend to people or that you cook with?

Yeah, well, the healthiest fats are polyunsaturated fats and But you know, the vegan diet can be full of 'em because you can get those in nuts and seeds. And monounsaturated fat is health-promoting also, and you got your avocados for that. So my main source of healthy fats are nuts and seeds and avocado. That's where I get— while, I mean, you know, some other things have fat, but it's just not a significant amount of fat. But that's where I get my fat from, nuts, seeds, avocados primarily.

Any like olive oil or anything like that, or you can't do butter obviously, so.

Yeah, well, see, I'm oil-free. A lot of people are not. I'm oil-free, but I use nuts and seeds to create sauces and nut butters to, to, to bake. And so where, where people would normally use oil for those things, man, I use nuts and seeds. And because I use nuts and seeds and I just blend them in the sauces, you still have the fiber. And that's where all the nutrients are. When you, when you take oil, you know, you're extracting that oil from an olive or from an avocado or whatever, and you're leaving behind a lot of the nutrients. And so I want to get those nutrients and phytochemicals and sterols and stanols and things that help lower cholesterol. And so nuts and seeds are superior. Now, again, just like I want to concede that you can eat meat and still eat a health-promoting diet, you can also have oil as a part of a health-promoting diet. I just don't. Oil is the most calorically dense food on the planet. 4,000 calories per pound, 120 calories per tablespoon. So if you're someone who has any extra weight on your body at all and you're eating oil regularly, If you're gonna cut something out, there's nothing you can cut calorie for calorie that's gonna make the difference that oil will.

And because oil doesn't have fiber, it bypasses a lot of our satiety mechanisms. You don't chew it. And when you chew a lot, it sends signals to, you know, stretch receptors in your mouth. When you swallow food, you got stretch receptors in your stomach. Oil bypasses all of that because it has no fiber. It's just, it's just liquid fat. And so, and so you tend to eat more. If I gave you, if I gave you a sandwich, let's say, and that sandwich was 500 calories, and then I gave you an apple, and that apple— let's say I give you 2 apples, and those 2 apples were 120 calories. You could eat that and say, man, I'm full, you know, but if I didn't have those apples, I wouldn't be full, but those 2 apples with this sandwich make me full. But if you ate that sandwich and put 120 calories or 200, the same amount of calories from the apple in olive oil on your sandwich, you would want more food. You got the same amount of calories, but you didn't get the same signal. And so oil tends to lend itself to making you eat more because it bypasses our satiety mechanism.

So if you're struggling with weight on your body at all and you wanna lose weight, if you're eating oil consistently, that would be the first thing I would say. If you can get rid of the oil, you're gonna see a significant difference. And you go, well then I'm gonna be deprived. I can't have this, I can't have that. And that's when you get my book or go to my, uh, social media. And you can see how to make the sauces and do the baking. There's nothing that I can't make that you go, well, you can't make that without oil. Yes, I can. Whatever you're naming, I can do it cuz I've done it. And so there's no deprivation involved, man. You're getting healthier, you're getting that fiber, you're getting those minerals and, and, and you're not putting that extra weight on your body.

That is a really good point. I haven't really heard anybody get into that about the oils, so to speak, cuz everybody's so pro-oil and that is a, it makes perfect sense. And that would be the first thing that you would want to cut because of exactly what you said. I, that is, that is a damn strong point, my friend. Thank you for bringing that up. And I'm, I'm glad we discussed that. So you are saying about using nuts then, what are some of your go-to nuts that are good for this type of cooking? I'm super curious about this.

Well, it depends on what you're making now, you know, now I, Dylan, you know, always say, man, like my recipes online and in my book are not for me. They're there to help people who can't, who are having trouble or think that it's just impossible or too much of a challenge to transition from a standard American diet or something close to that to something that's health-promoting because of all the things they have to give up. So what my niche is online and in my book is showing you that you can still have the traditional foods that you're used to, the things that you have that sentimental attachment to, the apple pie, the cookies, the mac and cheese, the burgers, the lasagna, whatever the case may be, pizza. You can make all that and you can make it with healthier ingredients so you don't have to give up anything you've been eating. My saying is, don't change what you make, change how you're making it, right? Change your ingredients, change your outcome. And so I say all that to say to you that, you know, I eat a salad every day, like a giant salad every day with lentils and steamed vegetables and this kind of thing and cookies made with lentils.

People would think I'm crazy and I'm fine doing that, but I wanted to reach back and be empathetic, man, to people who say, I can't, man. I can't. If that's eating healthy, I can't do it. I'm saying, okay, well, this is, this is also eating healthy. This is also eating healthy. You can still have the burger, the mac and cheese, as I said, the lasagna, the chili fries, all these things that are in my book. You can still have these things, but we're just, you know, getting the, getting the unhealthy ingredients out. But to answer your question directly, I use all kinds of nuts, but my main nuts that I use in cooking are walnuts, pecans, and cashews. Those are the three that I use.

I just wondered if there was like a certain texture or certain kind of nut that was really easier or, you know, that you utilized more than, I don't know, say a macadamia nut or a hazelnut. And those are maybe not as easy to cook as the others. I don't know. I'm just throwing stuff out there, but I was just curious if you have ones that are, you know, that you use more often.

Well, let me say, no, you're right on the money. Your intuition is right on point because cashews are like the go-to, as most people in vegan cooking would know. Cashews create a creaminess like no other nut can match. And, and they really can make a sauce that emulates, you know, something that's made with oil and made with butter and made with, you know, other type of fats. So you're right, cashews are the go-to. Cashews are somewhat high in oxalates. They're not super high, but they're somewhat high. So you don't want to eat a lot of 'em. Mm-hmm. But if you don't have any kidney issues, and that's not an issue as long as you're not eating too many. But I have a lot of people on my page that are nut-free. And so I offer nut-free alternatives and when I don't use the cashews to make the sauces and things that I typically would make with it. I'll use something like beans or I'll use beans or I'll use something like sweet potato, like white sweet potatoes and make a sauce or something like that.

Okay. I'm really glad you brought the oxalates up because I have a lot of good colleagues of mine that are very, very anti-oxalate and they, I think they go overboard personally with how they do it. But you know how that goes. And, and I think that sometimes when you see something that you see has a negative effect, sometimes you becomes so anti that you're not being fair or that you get, you kind of go over the edge and, and I get it because you maybe see or experience something yourself that happens to you. I mean, it happened to me. I went on a, I went on one of these binges where I had so much peanut butter and then I was also eating high amounts of spinach at the same time. And I got off the, the treadmill one day and I went to, to go to the bathroom and I urinated blood and I kind of panicked and I was like, what What is going on here? And my wife panicked. Well, come to find out I was on one of those periods where I had the nonstop eating of peanut butter, brother, like it was bad.

So I, I do realize there's a point, but I ask my question then to come off of that is what are some foods aside from spinach and maybe peanut butter or nut butters that would also carry heavier oxalates that we do have to be aware of, like during a vegan diet, especially to maybe don't overconsume.

Yeah. So now peanuts are not something I've heard that are typically problematic as far as oxalates go. But again, if, if you eat enough of anything, you're gonna have some type of a problem. But, but the, but the things that are super high in oxalates that you want to avoid, particularly if you have a history in your family of kidney stones, or if you have some kidney issues yourself, are like you said, spinach is number one. It's the highest there is. Beet greens in particular, beets to a lesser degree, but beet greens are very high. Swiss chard is very high. Um, rhubarb is very high, and I would put those kind of in the top tier of high oxalate foods. Those are the ones you really wanna minimize. But at the same time, all those foods are super health-promoting, right? Especially, especially the spinach. Um, so, so, you know, I do eat all those things, but just not regularly. Um, in the, in the, in the kind of tier 2, I would put things like cashews, um, almonds, um, other types of nuts. They're, they have oxalates. But here's the thing, bro. Um, you know, you know, the dose dictates the poison, right?

Because I tell people all the time, you know, have you ever drank a glass of water and gotten dizzy and felt like, oh man, I'm getting dizzy, what's in this water? I haven't. I haven't personally, and I don't think most people have. Here's the funny thing though, if you sit down and then 20 minutes you drink a gallon and a half of water, you can kill yourself. You literally kill yourself because you're diluting. I mean, you, you can literally kill yourself. So my point is, water is something that we can't go without for more than 72 hours without dying, that very same thing that can be a source of death if you don't get it can kill you if you overconsume it. And so I use that to apply to something like oxalates. When you say, oh, plants have oxalates and oxalates can cause issues, yes, if you overconsume those plants that are high in oxalates, but that still leaves a lot of plants that are, um, in play for people, again, who are not prone to kidney stones. If you're prone to kidney stones, it's a different ballgame. That the issue there is not the oxalates in the food.

The issue is your condition. You follow me? So someone who doesn't have that precursor to kidney disease or kidney stones or anything like that, you just wanna make sure that you're being reasonable and you're not over just eating spinach or eating spinach all the time. And when you eat it, you cook it because that minimizes it. So, um, so there, there are ways around it, but I'm, I'm not concerned at all myself being a vegan, eating lots of plants. I'm not concerned at all about the oxalates.

Yeah, I, I got on that kick for a little bit and didn't stop eating 'cause spinach is one of my go-tos. And I was like, this is ridiculous. Just don't overdo it because there's so many good benefits there. And I have some heart stuff and especially with that and, and everything else that we know is good with spinach, it's just like you said, you can take too many vitamins and be toxic. You can take too much magnesium and have heart rhythm issue. There, there's a lot of stuff that you can overdo. And so I think it's just temper what you do and move forward. So I got a question for you. I, I, cuz I'm curious because some of the things that you do are so ultra creative. And for me it's like the only way I could ever get super creative in the kitchen is when I smoked pot. Right. And so I just was all over the place.

Yeah.

So I'm curious because you do some sweet stuff, man, like How did you come up with some of this stuff? Was it trial and error? Did somebody kind of guide you? What was your motivating factor here that got you so intricate into what you were doing and figure this out?

Man, it was so organic, bro. I mean, it was never a, like a, like a, like a mastermind type, type of thing. I'm gonna learn to make these foods. Initially, man, like everybody else, I struggled to transition to healthy eating, man. I, When I was giving up things like cheese and bread and sugar, and I didn't know how to make desserts without refined sugar, I was hurting. I mean, I was really hurting. And so some of it was just, you know, outta necessity. Necessity will make you do things right. And so I had to come up with ways. And then in looking for ways to avoid the sugar, I said, well, why do I ever use sugar? I would get a recipe to make brownies without sugar and go, oh, so I can just use dates to sweeten it. Why don't I use dates for everything? And then I was like, oh, oil. I should cut down on oil. Well, how do I cook without oil? So I would Google that, but there was no one at the time. This was about 4 years ago. There was no one at the time that I saw that was putting them all together where they were no oil, no refined wheat, no refined sugar.

I also don't eat any rice, particularly white rice, uh, and minimally processed ingredients, no ultra-processed ingredients. No one was putting that all together. So that part I had to kind of adapt on my own. And I always tell people, man, it was powered by passion. You know, I got in the kitchen and I, and I made the mistakes and made the error and, and went through the little frustrating moments so that other people don't have to. Now I hand you a book or I give you my social media platform and you don't have to struggle and make the mistakes I did. You know, it's all about empathy for me, man, because there are people I love that are dying by what they're putting on their spoon and their fork, and they're never gonna eat a salad like I do. They're just not gonna do it. But I don't wanna lose those people, man. So my thing was, if I can figure out to make, how to make healthy food look like what they're used to seeing, the texture be like what they're used to eating, and the flavor be like what they're used to tasting, how could they say no at that point?

And so that was really what motivated me. And then as I started doing it and, and had success, you know, success breeds success. And so you, you like it and you feel like, wow, I'm really doing something. And then Dylan, if you go on my social media platforms and read the comments, I mean, you know, I can't make these up. People are raving about the stuff that I'm making, man. They, they love it. And so that gave me confidence to say, look at how people are responding. So I started taking requests. I got so full of myself, like, what do you want me to make? Give it to me. And listen, and a great example, Dylan, a great example, man. Two days ago, I think it was, I posted Rice Krispie treats, but I don't eat rice and I don't eat refined sugar. But I figured out a way, and I'd never seen that recipe before, to do it. And people are loving that recipe. It's doing really well on, on, on my platforms right now. But, um, but you know, I did Fig Newtons, I do Girl Scout cookies, I do all kinds of things without the refined wheat, the refined sugar, and all the junk ingredients.

You know, I'll tell you this because listening to this and knowing what I know as being a nutritionist and also someone that suffered an eating disorder most of their life, it can be hopeless and you live in the dark a lot of times and a lot of people don't talk about it. They just don't. It took me a lot of years and to have a platform and to realize that God wanted me to help people. And so I need to humble myself and talk about all of my own areas that are lacking and because it, it, it shows people, right? So what you're doing is you're not just giving people healthy eating, you are, but that's not all you're doing. You're giving people hope and you're letting people see that they, They don't have to live in either fear or angst because that causes stress when you can't control what you're eating. And you listen, people that eat like shit, they know they are, they do, and they can't help it. They really can't. So you're not just providing ideas, you're giving people hope. It's far more. I hope you know and understand that, that what you're doing is far deeper than just a recipe book.

You're providing something that is going to save a lot of people. And I just want to say thank you because I understand now more from you talking to me that I want people to realize it's okay to have these problems. It's okay to struggle, but there are people like yourself that have an answer. So it's appreciated. I just want to throw that in right now before we go any further.

Well, thank you, bro. And of all the things that have happened, and a lot of positive things have happened since I've been doing this, doing a social media thing and writing a book and that kind of thing. By far the thing that touches me the most and that, you know, motivates me the most are messages that I get from people saying, hey, my joints don't hurt anymore, my diabetes is gone, I finally got my husband on board, my son will finally eat healthy food. And man, that just warms my heart, man. I've had some bring me to tears talking about kids and things and how they wouldn't eat things. It's just, it's just amazing. But I love what you said You know, the thing about my book, the word that I like to attach to it more than anything else is empowering, right? Because like you said, you know, if, if you lose hope, I'm not just, I'm giving you the recipe, but then you're making it. You see what I'm saying? So you are taking care of yourself. You're not just going and pulling something off a shelf, which probably has something in it that you don't want anyway, or going to a restaurant that, you know, to get this food.

You are creating your health in your kitchen. Your laboratory is your kitchen. you know, cause it's either gonna be your lab or it's gonna be the lab of the chemist who's making the medications that you're gonna be taking, right? So you can pay the farmer or pay the pharmacist. It's your choice. But what I like to do is pay the farmer, get that produce in here, man, make it into the type of stuff that you love to eat. And it's all win-win. It's all win-win.

I love it. I, I want to, want to shift to something here cuz this is something that, that I know gets discussed a lot in fitness and bodybuilding worlds and. I've gone back and forth on this for years until I kind of transitioned more into like biohacking sphere and other aspects of health. So I don't get into these arguments anymore, but I want your thoughts when it comes to, is it possible for bodybuilders and people that are really getting into looking for their pro card and training, are they able to do that as a vegan? Is it possible to get the adequate amounts of every nutrient that they need to really be on that level?

You know, Dylan, I can't, I can't say no, but I won't say yes. Cause obviously I don't know. It's not something I've tried, but I just know that, um, you know, and again, man, I try to be very delicate, bro. Cause I, I'm not one, I'm a live and let live kind of guy. But you know, in my opinion, from what I've read and seen and what I've been told by experts that I've talked to, you know, the human body is not designed to be massively big, you know, the kind of muscular, density that you put on doing really, really serious bodybuilding is not natural. And again, if you're eating meat, you're raising your IGF-1 because you're having to eat so much meat that you're raising your IGF-1 to levels that can promote cancer. And so, and so I would be concerned about that. But furthermore, man, you're just doing something that really isn't natural. Again, this is my opinion. For those who get pleasure out of bodybuilding, who get something out of it mentally or physically, I'm not knocking your thing, man. You do what you do, you know, because I mean, heck, I could die tomorrow and it doesn't matter what I was eating all these years.

I'm in a car accident. You get in a car accident. So go for what you know and what you love. So I'm not trying to discourage anyone, but I just don't see a way to eat a healthy— again, operative word is healthy— a healthy vegan diet and be a big bodybuilder. Because look, I'm very— look, if you look at my book, you'll see, I mean, I got a picture in there and it's in the protein section because I know people have this question about protein. And I'm very muscular. I'm not a big guy, but I'm very defined, very cut. And I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but I'm just being, you know, just matter of fact here to say that I'm all about, you know, how important it is to have, you know, adequate musculature, especially as you get old, man, to avoid, you know, the hip fractures and all kind of things. So I'm all for lifting weights and working out. I do it and I do it avidly and consistently. I'm just not going for the big bulky muscles that aren't really natural and aren't really useful, to be honest with you, other than for vanity or to compete.

And again, if that's your thing, I'm not knocking it. I'm not out here saying you shouldn't be doing X or Y. You do what, what works for you. But for me personally, I wouldn't try to do that.

I appreciate the transparency, and you are 1 million percent right. There is so much data that I have on being too big for too long and the amount of stress and strain that it puts on your heart. I'm not just talking about joints, ligaments, and long-term injuries. I'm talking about our hearts and other internal organs where it, it shortens your lifespan. It's proven. And you, you're in what's called an mTOR state as opposed to being in the AMPK state too long, too much. And it will kill you. It absolutely will. And that's why you see a lot of these guys that they die young. Or they see a lot of guys, they, they degrade, and some of that's from steroid use, but they, they start to degrade and then they're injured all the time. Constant injuries.

Yeah.

You know, and also the consumption of too many calories is, is not good. Right, right.

So that's right. In fact, the only thing that's been proven scientifically to extend life is calorie restriction. It's been proven in different species of animals. And that's the only thing that is repeatable over and over again to extend life is the restriction of calories. So when you're eating a ton of calories to put on muscle and put on weight, you're going against the very thing that extends life. That, that can be a problem. And mTOR, you're right, mTOR is necessary. And if you're a vegan bodybuilder, you have to be aware you got to get enough leucine to activate mTOR. You need 2.2 grams, I think, of leucine at one time. You have to do some strategic eating to do that or eat more to do that. So, yeah, mTOR is important, but you're right, you don't want to live live in that state, uh, prolonged, prolonged.

No. And they stay in that state way too long. Yeah. I have gotten into that. We won't get into that, but you and I both know what we're saying there. It's, it's, it's not good. It's actually quite dangerous. But yes, you are also right. And I'm gonna ask you about, uh, this. As we get older and we age, sarcopenia and muscle degradation can be fatal. And as you pointed out, you can be very prone to broken bones, ligament tears or stretching, et cetera. So we obviously want to avoid that. What are your thoughts then on supplemental intake? Like, are you good with, is there any issue taking creatine or other supplements in terms of like as a vegan, or is there any issue there that you run into with people in terms of what you recommend?

Yeah. Yeah. I think supplementation is essential for some things like B12, for example. And, and for me, omegas, omega-3s as well. But in light of protein powders, you know, as we get older, particularly over 62, then our ability to assimilate certain nutrients goes down. And so we can't utilize the nutrients as well as we could when we were 30 and 40 and 50, et cetera. And so for some people, particularly if you have an older person, again, over 62, that's particularly active, they may need a protein powder because, you know, you can't, you can't utilize it as well. And if you say, well, I'll just eat more, well, that's difficult to do, particularly as you get older anyway, to try to just eat more things with protein and then you're upping your calories at the same time. So I am a real good quality protein powder. I'm not against— I take protein powder sometimes depending on what I'm doing. If I have a particular goal or something I'm gonna be training, it's different times, but not often where I do take a, a protein powder myself. And I suggest it for people who feel like they need it because they can't get enough through their regular diet for their activity level or their weight or whatever the case may be, or their age.

So there are times where supplementation is, is needed.

That's where I was gonna go is to the protein powders and your thoughts on plant-based proteins. So whether it's rice protein, pea protein, do you have any thoughts on those not being as good as whey protein and the efficacy there at all, or? I'm curious as to your thoughts there.

I don't— when you say not as good, it depends on, you know, how you're looking at it because, you know, that's kind of a debate that people have with meat versus plant protein anyway. And, you know, and a lot of people don't realize that plants have all— all plants have all essential, you know, amino acids. It's just that the ratio that they're in are not as high as meat. You know, with meat you get the amino acids and they're in the right quantity where you're going to You're going to grow, you're going to get what you want to get. But from plants, you know, the plants aren't as complete with the proteins. You follow me? So you have to eat more variety to get the same thing. But having said that, you know, creatine, man, that's something different. Not only does it, you know, bodybuilders love it, right? Because you get that water weight, you get the muscle look. But it's been some cognitive benefits from creatine that I've read and studied that are impressive. And my osteopath, who is like, doesn't play, he knows his stuff. He, he's in favor of it. Uh, and so was a couple of health experts that I'm fortunate enough to, to know and be connected to.

And so I'm usually the last one to come around. I try to be a minimalist with everything when it comes to food, but, uh, but I've come around on creatine. I gotta admit, I don't take it regularly. I don't take it regularly, but I do take it and I do want to take it consistently at some point. And then protein powders, you know, again, man, these labels, you, there's so many different protein powders out there and some of 'em are too high in lead or too high in cadmium or too high in this and just, you know, aren't quality, but a quality protein powder, I'm all for it. All for it if you need it.

Yeah. We have to look at, there's a thing called Clean Label Project and they test for everything. And the pe— the companies that utilize that are the ones that I look for. But yeah, you're right, man. The creatine, the past, 3 years especially, it seems like everybody's caught on to like what all it does and the cognitive benefit. And I have my 73-year-old mother taking it, my, um, many teenagers that I know, cuz it's good for everybody for multiple reasons. But the cognitive benefit, the ability to stay sharp, menopausal women, it's phenomenal for all of them. So I'm glad you brought some of that up. Let's get into a little bit about the book. Book. So what can people expect? Because the book is coming out very soon and I, like I said, I had a chance to preview and it is on another level of badass in my— sorry, I'm just gonna say it for what it is, but let's, let's get into a little bit about what people can expect from it. Is it just recipes or is there more intricate detailing into what you discuss? What, what can people look for to give 'em a preview?

Yeah, I love that question. Obviously the main thing are the recipes, no doubt, but I tried to make it comprehensive and informative. And so, you know, I use a lot of ingredients that people wouldn't think you could use to create the things that I create. And some ingredients that I use will be things that people haven't heard of, like arrowroot powder, for example, or psyllium husk. Now, maybe you've heard of them, but, but a lot of people haven't. And there are other things too. And so I have an ingredients index where I go through almost every ingredient I use. And I, and I tell you why I use it, what it's used in place of, and why I use it instead of the other thing. So the book is very educational. I have a make your own meal matrix where I show you how you can learn to make certain things. And then, you know, once you learn how to make my veggie ground, for example, now you can go and make that burrito using the veggie ground, which is a staple recipe. And it doesn't, it doesn't, it can be a little confusing if it's not in front of you and I'm saying it this way.

But I just basically show you how to connect recipes and connect different methods that you're using in one recipe to adapt and even create your own recipes. I'm empowering you. It's not, when you're done with my book, not only can you make the 134 recipes about that that I have in the book, but you start to conceptualize, you start to understand the concept behind what I'm doing. And again, that word empowerment, it empowers you to say, you know what? I'm trying to think of something I didn't put in the, in the book. Uh, mac and cheese isn't in the book, but you know what? I think I can make it now. 'Cause I know how to make the cheese sauce that he did, and I know what kind of noodles are healthy, and I know, you see what I'm saying? And so that light bulb, I want that light bulb to go off so you can get out and experiment and do your own thing and make any type of recipe that you want.

See, that's it. That's what I was, that's what I was hoping that you were gonna say and get into is what are we substituting? Why? And so we can see and visualize and understand what is being taken out. Wow, this can be used for this reason or for this substitution, because I'm assuming that some of that stuff in there is going to be a little bit mind-blowing to people when they see what you're doing and what you're taking out and using in between.

Absolutely. And, you know, people that follow me are kind of adjusted to it, so they, they're, they're used to it. But there are a lot of people buying a book who do not follow me, and I think mine is going to be mind-blowing. You know, but in a good way, in a very good way. That, wow, because people say that to me, you know, they write me and go, wow, you could make this with that? I never knew you could use this to make that. I hear that all the time. And, and it's, and it's a shame really, man, that we're indoctrinated in this way of eating where everything is processed. It's done for you. You just go buy the frozen pizza, just go buy the frozen lasagna, you know, just go buy the fruit, you know, whatever. Go buy the ready-made crackers and go buy this. And, and I'm showing you that if you take what they give you, you're gonna get what you get. And by that I mean these food companies, man, they're interested in one thing only: profit. And they're gonna put stabilizers, emulsifiers, food colors, food additives. They, they're gonna put things in there that make that food last longer, taste better, and, and it's not nothing close to food.

They're, they're, they're ingredients you can't pronounce that chemists, chemists are making in a lab, and then you're putting them in your body. You know, so long. So, but when you make your own, when you make your own, you can skip all that stuff.

I think if people had any sort of clue on what they were actually eating, if you told them, they would pass out, you know?

Oh boy.

I, Javon, you know how many times I eat out in a year? None. I don't. Even when I travel, I have to have a kitchen where I'm at. We cook everything. I don't touch anything anywhere for years. And I work.

You're making it safe for me to be myself, man. I usually hold that part back unless I'm pushed, but I don't either. Matter of fact, I did a live the other night on IG and someone said, what do you do when you eat out? And I started laughing and I didn't want to, I said, you know, I probably haven't eaten out in 3 or 4 or 5 years, man. I don't know how long it's been. I just don't eat out. And look, Dylan, here's the thing, man. I'm funny this way, right? Because even if I knew the food was perfect, the ingredients were the ingredients I want, I don't want some stranger I don't know in a room I can't see putting my food together. Cause I worked in restaurants, bro. I worked in restaurants as a teenager and I've seen things come off the floor and go on the plate. I've seen people scratching their head and doing stuff and then making your food. And so, so bro, I, I, I don't want any part of it. Now, having said that, I know a lot of people like, come on, you can't be that strict.

I'll go to a restaurant with you. I'll have a glass of water and, and I'll provide some good conversation. But I'm probably not going to eat. I'm just probably not going to eat.

You sound— I mean, we're identical. And I also worked in kitchens and I worked at some high-end restaurants and I was back there and I was going, this is what goes on back here?

For real? Exactly. Yes.

And you see when it's busy and they're sweating back there and going 100 miles an hour and like, no, just no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We even when we travel, The first thing we do off the plane before we even go to where I'm staying is go to Whole Foods or whatever health. So I've been in some small towns and it's just the local health store and I'm stocking up before I even go. And it's like, even for one day, bro, like I go there and I'll, I'll like, I'll buy whatever I need and some of it I'll even put in my, my bag that I'm checking to bring home because it does get pricey. But no, there is no way on the planet Earth. So I'm going to really get into your book to enhance my repertoire of what I cook over here, and maybe we can do some, some, some videos together on what I'm doing that and test it out, and you can guide me and show me.

Hey, I'm all about it. I love that, man. You know, I— when I went to, um, San Diego yesterday, it's one of the rare times that I did eat while I was there, but it was because I was visiting Dr. Fuhrman. I don't know if you're familiar with him, but Dr. Joel Fuhrman. Yeah, so he's like my health hero, and, and so I was out there on his podcast and then we hit it off. I had already met him, but we hit it off so well, he invited me to his home and now I ate there because I mean, this guy, you know, he, he's like me and I was eating some fresh stuff out there and just loving it. But, yeah, I'm like you, man. Even when I travel, I'm very strategic about what I do and I just bring things or like you, I look for that. I look for that Whole Foods and stock up. Yeah.

I love it, man. That's awesome. Well, your book is coming out on March 17th. Correct.

Correct.

Okay. So we got to make that thing a top seller and get that in front of everybody, because I think that the impact that that is going to have is going to be tremendous. Now, let me ask you this, because I know some people are going to want to know this and I want to know this. Do you do any kind of coaching, whether it's group coaching videos you put out or one-on-one coaching at all, or is it just strictly follow your, your social, read your book and get everything that way?

No, no. I had a lot of people asking me and telling me that they would love some coaching and, and that kind of thing. So I created an app and my app is a year old. It's at healthyveganeating.com or excuse me, hveating.com, hveating.com. And in my app, I have all my recipes except some of the ones in the book, over 500 recipes, but not just that. I have workout programs where I did over a, it may be like 200 exercise where I demonstrated for you. You choose what you want. If you want to lose fat and put on weight, or if you want to lose weight and you want to do it at the home and not the gym, I've got workouts with dumbbells, workout for at home, calisthenics, machines, you name it, man. It's very, very, very comprehensive. So people who want to work out regularly, and then I did some videos, workout, I call Workout with Javon, where I'm in these beautiful locations, man, at the, at the beach, at the lake, in these parks, and I'm doing workouts and you work out with me. Um, and then I have a section on positive mindset and a lot of exercises I put together and a lot of affirmations where, you know, I'm guiding you with affirmations and that kind of thing.

Um, and then, uh, and then a section on sleep and, and in the sleep section, I'm doing some guided sleep and some guided relaxation things. So it's the four pillars of health as I see 'em, because I tell people, man, if you eat a super health-promoting diet and you exercise every day and you're not harboring stress and, and trauma, but you're getting 4 hours of sleep, bro, you're not gonna be healthy. You're gonna, you're gonna sabotage all the other things you're doing. So it really is a synergistic approach that works best. So in my app, I emphasize all 4 pillars. So, and I do offer coaching through my app and I, and I do a fair amount of that. So, so yeah, so I do offer coaching, but it's a subscription-based app. I have a lot of people subscribe that, you know, people are kind of, um, taken to it. So it, so I really like it. It's, it's probably my, Until the book, it was a favorite thing that I've done is putting together an app. 'Cause it's so comprehensive, man. It's really helping a lot of people.

Well, see, and that's just it. I spent way too many years focused on just the fitness side and then kind of the hormonal side. And, and I kind of did all of that, which is great. You have to have that. But if you don't piece the mind and body together, get the sleep, get your mind right, not be in the stressful states and fight and flight all the time. You can eat the best, you can do all this, but if you don't piece it all together and you're never gonna be fully healthy. So I love that you're doing that and really taking the time to cover all the bases. Even though you have a specialty, you're smart enough to know we gotta do it all or it doesn't matter. I love it.

Absolutely. I think absolutely, man.

That is so wonderful. 'Cause you know, you know how it is, bro. Like everybody wants the quick fix and then they don't, they think they can just take a pill and it's magic or just do, oh, if I eat good, I can do this, or I can work out and eat like shit and it's gonna be okay. And that doesn't, it doesn't equate at all.

That's right. I love it, man. Yeah, unfortunately that's the society that we live in, you know. That message is being pushed by people, um, you know, the easy way, right? But the easy way, bro, leads to, you know, hard problems.

So, and I think too what you're stressing is so important because there is nothing like making your own food and the way that it tastes and being able to enjoy it when you're done It's not, I don't ever look at it like, man, I have to go do this. It's like, man, I get to do this. You know what I mean? And you're blessed to be able to do it.

Yes. Yes, man. You sound like I'm talking to myself here, man. I love it.

But you have to look at everything in life like that because if you don't, you take things for granted and before you know it, they're gone. I was just talking about this the other day. I said, you know, there were moments in time where I would go, man, I'm so tired. I don't feel like doing this. I don't feel like recording today. I don't feel like driving to the studio to record. And then it dawned on me, what if I didn't have this? What if, what if none of this was here and I didn't have this chance to do any of it? No. Now I look at it like, I don't care if I'm tired or what I'm going, man, I get to do my interview with Javon today, man. I get to go drive to the studio and record today. I get to do that. So it's just like that. I get the opportunity to learn and eat healthy. I get the opportunity to take the time to enjoy doing this. Because what, what are you doing in your free time? Talking, you know, scrolling around on the, on your phone, talking shit in chats or whatever, or reading political garbage.

So I think that one of the things I want people to take away is you're giving people the opportunity and showing them you can do this and get the chance to do this and turn your life around and enjoy it at the same time.

I love how you're talking, man. I mean, uh, you know, appreciation is so powerful. It really is, man. I, I always say one of the best things to give and receive is appreciation. You know, when you know someone truly appreciates you, speaking for myself, but I think it's true for everyone. When you know someone truly appreciates you, man, that's a beautiful feeling. And when you do something, you know, yeah, pre— I love what you're saying, man. You gotta appreciate things. If not, you know, makes things so much more difficult.

I don't know if you know Ben Azadi or not, but he has a really good book. He talks about metabolic flexibility. He's a big, big timer on here. And he told me when I was interviewing him, one of the things that everybody's missing is a certain vitamin and it's called vitamin G and that's vitamin of gratitude. I do too. And I stand by what he said to the maximum percent that if you don't have gratitude and I'm talking for everything, like when I leave the gym, I thank God that I'm able to even not only work out, but that I, I'm able to afford to go to the nice place. And I make sure I say it every time I leave, 'cause you just don't know when that stuff's not there. And I think that the gratitude to have somebody like you that teaches about how we could eat, that deserves gratitude. And the gratitude in what you're teaching and then the food that we get to eat. I think if people had that appreciated it, they would be healthier and they would be happier. In terms of everything that they're doing in life.

I agree 100%, man. And one thing that I say is, you know, when you're making your own food and it's healthy food, it's the ultimate expression of self-love, you know. And, and that's something that I didn't know about, you know. I didn't know that was going to be a result of what I'm doing. But when I know that I'm eating food that's super health-promoting and I feel the energy from it, and I'm— even when I'm in the grocery store buying, I look and I see all this color and I'm getting stuff. I just feel good about me. I feel like I'm nurturing myself and, you know, my self-esteem and just, and just how I feel about myself really, really goes up. And I love that. And then also, when you're talking about gratitude and appreciation, man, I have some people that, that died at 40, at 50, and it was a result of what they were eating. Now, they may have had some other issue, pre-existing issue, but it could have been addressed if they did things differently. And, uh, man, I can never go out here and not appreciate a day when I'm able to see it and see it in a state of health like I'm in and enjoy it.

So, so when something negative happens or something, you know, man, it's so minor, bro. It's so minor. I'm, I'm here and I can change it. I can change the next moment, the next day, and still be here and enjoy the time I have. So I don't do well with people who are negative, um, and who put a lot of negative energy out there and who are self-limiting. You know, everything you bring up, they see the issue and the problem and why you can't do it. And why it won't work. I don't work well with, with that because there's just so much to be grateful for, man.

I agree. There's a lot of a lack of accountability and responsibility. And I think if people just took the time to look in the mirror, I had to do this, man. I had to, I was Mr. Excuse Maker and Mr. Everybody Else a lot of my life. And when I figured out that the true reason was in something I was lacking, or inadequate with, or my mentality or attitude, and everything clicks, you know what I mean? It just starts to fall into place and click. And when you become responsible, not only do you get better, but you feel better. Because like I said, we all know, man, people know, you know, in your heart when you're fighting dirty or you're making excuses or whatever, we know. And it feels pretty damn freeing when that's gone.

That's one of my favorite words, man. You're hitting the freeing. I love that word. I love that word. I love that word. And you're, you're right on point. You know, regardless if you're religious or not, one of my favorite quotes I've ever heard is that God, whoever your God is or your entity is, God grants us youth and wisdom, just not at the same time. Right. And that statement is so poignant and it's so true. And so my thing is I never knock myself for what I did or didn't do in the past. You know, I just recognize that that's where I was mentally at that time. That's the situation I was in and I dealt with it. As who I was at that moment. But I don't want to be making the same mistake. I want there to be growth. I want to evolve. That's my number one thing, man. I love learning. I love growing. And that's why I was able to take this on too and figure out these recipes. I just love to learn, man. I feel like I'm evolving. I don't want to be the same person 5 years from now than I am now.

I want to be better. If not, then I didn't grow and that's a problem, right? So, so yeah, man, everything you say, you know, perfect alignment with me.

I love that. And it's true. And, you know, one of the things like that, like you said there, because everything I do now operates around God's work, his, his spirit in me telling me what to do. And one of the things I learned is there's a lot of smart people, a lot, and they got a lot of knowledge, but there's a big fine line between knowledge and wisdom. And people don't understand the difference. And the, the wisdom is what makes you the smart one, because that makes you realize how to use the knowledge you have. A lot of smart people do a lot of dumb shit. You know what I mean?

That's right.

That's right.

Yeah.

So that's one of the things I learned. Another thing I learned that I think you'll agree with— a lot of the best teachers have made the most mistakes. They just don't make them twice.

There you go. Yes. And that's what I was saying. You know, I did what I did, but I'm not going to— I'm not going to do it again. Once I— once I have that wisdom, you know. Yeah. Don't repeat it.

But would you say that a lot of the things you came up with that are so brilliant, you had to make some pretty, pretty good mistakes to learn how to do the right things, right? And be able to say, you know what?

Yeah.

And you just say, let's go, let's— I need this.

That's right. I mean, you know, I always, I used to say to people, I'm in love with the struggle, you know, because, you know, like, I don't want, I don't want it to come easy for me, whatever the it is, make me work, make me figure it out. Out, you know, and I come from modest background, man, low-income family, and I didn't have anyone talking to me about health and nutrition and even finances and those kind of things, man. So it took me a lot longer to figure things out because I didn't have it modeled for me and I didn't have a plan in place and the guidance that I would like to have had looking back. But at the same time, I wouldn't change it, man. I'm in love with the struggle, meaning the struggle makes you strong and it makes you appreciate it. If you have everything you want from the time you can remember, how do you appreciate anything you have? You know, I'd rather work for it. And so, um, it's always nice to have a goal. And my goal right now is, is just reaching as many people as I can with the Make Your Own Message.

And, uh, hopefully, um, and, you know, the message will resonate and a lot of people, uh, will take to it.

Well, one more question for you. So what do you, what do you have planned now as the future goes? Cause this book, I, I'm assuming was a huge milestone for you. And I know the process for writing a book is not easy. And so. What's, what's next? Is it like promote this book, get people more onto it, and then, then what is your plan moving forward? Are you gonna do another book? You're gonna step up the coaching? How are we gonna see you become even more impactful? 'Cause I know you're not the kind of guy that's like, okay, I did this, I'm good to go. I know there's more. And if you, if it's, you know, just gimme a little sneak peek if you don't wanna give it all away.

Yeah. You know, there, there are a couple of products that I want to create, a couple of product lines, 'cause people are asking for certain things that I use in recipes and they want to know my advice. And I'm like, you know, I could, I could make a nice clean version of certain things. So I wanna do a product line. But other than that, Dylan, I let the people dictate, man. I'm writing a book because so many people asked me to write a book. Again, I didn't go in with any plan except to share. I didn't know you could make money on social media. I didn't know what an influencer was. I'm being honest, man. People had to talk me into getting on, people had to talk me into getting on social media and I didn't know what I was doing. And, um, so I was just doing it outta love and I still am. And then things just, you know, came to fruition. And so, so to answer your question, I don't know what's next. That'll be dictated by how well the book does. And, you know, and I'm going out on these national shows soon and I don't know what kind of opportunities may come out of that, but it's always about the message, never about me.

I don't need a lot of money, man. I don't need a bigger house. I don't need a better car. You know, I can go on vacation when I want to. I just like to be at home playing my keyboard and, you know, connect. So I'm very simple, man. I'm an introvert too, and I tell the other people all the time, this is out of my box, man, to be out here on Front Street like this. But, um, but I have the right motive, and the right motive is helping people. As long as I'm doing that and people are wanting me to do something more, I'll keep following their lead and, uh, just trying to do good work, man.

I appreciate it. I could kind of tell when I first met you that you were a little introverted, but I got a way of making people kind of, kind of show who they are. So I'm glad I'm able to do that. I am lacking in a lot of things, but I'm good when it comes to getting people to open up and make them comfortable. So I hope that I did that for you today because I really enjoyed the conversation. And I think that we got to maybe see a different side of you you don't always get to talk about. And I think you are freaking phenomenal, bro. And I'm really happy to have met you and have this conversation.

Well, thank you, man. Totally mutual. And you're right. You do have a good way. This is probably, and I've done, you know, over 100 interviews over the 4 years. It's probably my favorite interview. I mean, I, it really is. And I'm not saying that, man. I'm saying that, hey, look, this is going to be on my platform. Everybody will hear this. Probably my favorite interview. I would say it is my favorite interview. It just felt like it was just you and me, man. Just talking and it was free. And, uh, and I love, uh, yeah. And you know your stuff too. And that makes it fun. So.

Yeah, I appreciate it, man. Like I said, I love every second of this conversation. We're gonna make sure everybody hears it. So do me a favor, I'm gonna link your— where to get your book and make sure that everybody knows where to come find you. But just say it out loud for everybody, your, your best ways of communication so that they kind of hear it from you too.

Yeah, so my social media platforms are @healthyveganeating, @healthyveganeating. I'm on Instagram, on YouTube, and on Facebook. If you wanna check out my app, you go to hveating.com, hveating.com. You can go to my website, it's healthyveganlifestyle.com, www.healthyveganlifestyle.com. And on my website, you can buy my book, you can see my app, you can see it all. So it, you know, puts everything in one spot for you. And then my book's available at Amazon, Target, Barnes Noble. If you're in Canada, Indigo, small bookshops, and, you know, anywhere else in between. So. So I'm out there. If you're looking for me, you can find me.

I love it, man.

I love it.

This is, like I said, phenomenal. Actually, my wife has seen the recipes too, and we're going to, we're going to mess around with some stuff here and see what we can come up with. And I'll send you some pictures when we do some shit.

Oh, I love that, bro. I would love that, Dylan. Please do, man.

I will for sure. Awesome, brother. Well, like I said, it was a real pleasure to talk with you today, and we're going to make sure everybody gets to know you. Vegan or not, because you are making a massive impact and I love your mindset and everything else you're doing. So thank you, bro. We will make sure to get the word out. And I truly hope that this has the impact that I believe it will for everybody listening. So that being said, stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Gemelli and Javon Benton signing off.

All right.