Transcript of The Big Suey: Rick Barnes Says 'Effort Needs To Be Better'

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Welcome to the Big Sui, presented by DraftKings.

Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Lebitard podcast.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that.

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys? I've done it. And now, here's the marching band to nowhere, Fatface and the Habitual Liar.

This episode of the Dan Leventard Show is presented by DraftKings. Draftkings, the Crown is yours.

I thought that the best point that Jeremy made in the last hour was pointing out that the warriors flipped stance on reporting, where all of a sudden they're saying, Yeah, we're going to wait Jimmy Butler out on his rehab, and we're going to take care of him, being very careful not to hurt his feelings because in all likelihood, Familyhood, Milwaukee said, No, thanks. Don't want that expiring contract. And so they had to reverse course by all the reporting changing on Jimmy Butler. There were a couple of other things that I wanted to get to with you guys, though, here today. And Zaz, do you want to hear for a second a couple of the mistakes that you made in the last hour? Because I'm sorry to do this to you, but I'm not sorry to do this to you. Let's hear one of the things that Zaz said during the last hour that was a Zaz mistake.

It's a pathetic offer. I don't have a problem with that one.

It's a pathetic offer. Okay, you don't have a problem with that one?

No, that's his character. He stammers sometimes.

I don't have a problem with that one.

No, that's play on.

Okay, that is play on. Play on. All right, what about this one?

Reggie, was Derrick Rose battling LeBron for best player in the year in the league? Let me tell you something. You did that one twice. More than that. I'm going to have a hard time sleeping tonight because I don't know why I couldn't say that right. I I did several times. Reggie, was Derrick Rose battling LeBron for best player in the year in the league? How do I keep making the same mistake?

Are you talking in too many places? Because this is possible.

How do you make babble in one syllable?

Is it possible that you're talking too much in too many places. Is that possible that you're not... Because I will tell. I texted Mike just this week, and there are a couple of places that I am feeling vulnerable. One of them is wearing headsets for 21 years. For the first time in my life, over the last I have to ask my wife to repeat herself again and again because my hearing from 21 years of doing this, or longer, really, is headphones have affected my hearing. Me too. But another place that I feel vulnerable is by the time I get to Friday, my stamina isn't what it used to be. I can feel by Fridays that I'm having some trouble speaking clearly. Do you think the fact that you're doing Zazlo 2. 0 show, you're doing ESPN radio, and you're doing this, this might lead. And you're older.

I also see him on The Great Cody Show, which came out this morning.

And you're older. You're talking in a lot of places. Is it possible that you're having more difficulty talking because you're getting paid in more places for talking?

I shouldn't have any trouble on this show. This is the first thing I do of the day. I'm at my freshest for this show. I will tell you, I'm a little bit worried about it. I just turned 45 years old. I think it has to be an age thing. I do. And that That bothers me.

That bothers me. You turned a three-sylable word into a one-sylable word.

Battling.

Battling?

You're battling through it.

Battling. Battling.

Battling.

I don't even know what word that is.

Battling. Battling? Is it- You don't know what battling? Am I saying battling? Is You can't understand what you're saying?

Was that LeBron is battling with Derrick Rose? Reggie, was Derrick Rose battling LeBron for best player in the year in the league?

He was, bye.

He was battling. He was battling.

He was battling. Put it on the poll, please, at Levitard Show. Can battling ever be one syllabus at Levitard Show? Bye. Zazlo is getting pissed off as well at reporters who don't know anything. How could he not?

How could he not? I can't be the only one. The major drawback to this Yannis trade scenario is I am refreshing Twitter every five seconds, and that's really obnoxious. I'll just be living my life. And then my brain says to me, Check if Yannis has been traded every five seconds. And I have to check, and it's really obnoxious. So I can't wait until Thursday rolls around. But part of the problem is you have all these reporters out there who don't know shit. And it's so easy to tell which ones don't know anything. I really believe it boils down to because, Dan, as a journalist yourself, you and I, just a couple of journalists here in this room, you could probably back up here and attest to the idea that journals aren't just making stuff up. But times are different now. Times are different with the way the internet is and social media, and everybody's got to be first, and everybody's got to get information. You're telling me you don't believe that so Sean Shams comes out with the report last week that the Bucks are now aggressively listening to offers, and there's a real possibility that Yannis is going to be trading.

Then after that, every other reporter starts coming out with their little tidbits, their little nuggets, their little information.

Shams always knows what he's talking about, correct? I think so, yeah. I've got to be honest here. I did not think that Woj was a replaceable creature. I did not think that there was anybody on Earth who could actually do that job credibly the way that Woj did and does. I shouldn't say does anymore because he's not doing it at all. Shams does it as well as Woj did. I didn't think there was such a thing. So you're not talking about him?

No, he's the guy. He's the top guy. He's got his information. And then everybody else starts following suit. I really believe it's everybody else like, I got to show that I'm in the game somehow. I better have some information. And you could always tell. You could tell the bullshit. I saw someone the other day, some other reporter is like, The Heat don't have any draft picks to offer. No. Yes, they do. They have two draft picks to offer. And there's another one, The Heat can trade their 28 first-round pick and their 29. No, no, they actually can't. They're not allowed to. And then there's another one who was coming out and saying, Yannis' hesitation with a potential trade to Miami is Pat Reilly's militant style. It's like, Pat Reilly has nothing. Here's the thing. People don't understand. Pat Reilly doesn't have anything to do with the day-to-day team. Eric Spolstra is 1,000% in charge. Pat Reilly has nothing to do with the team on a day-to-day basis. You could just tell the reporters who are just reporters, I say in air quotes, who are just trying to get in the game.

Name names, okay? Because you're not talking about Shams, but who are you talking about?

It's even names that I don't recognize. It's just people out. They got 10,000, 20,000 followers.

Okay, so it's the internet. It's not reporters.

It's the- It's some. Are you followershaming? It's some. No, I said that as they're actual reporters. It's not someone who's got 200 followers.

It's someone who- But you're not naming names.

Because I don't remember them. I don't know these fools.

All right. It seems like you're scared.

It is Super Bowl week, and ESPN's morning radio show, Evan Cohen, is not getting up at 3: 00 AM. He's starting the show at 3: 00 AM. It's crazy. A 6: 00 AM show, along with the other people he hosts on Sportsmanlike with. They're going to be in a warehouse, and no one's going be coming by there at that hour because who the hell is going to come by there? Who's going to come by Sports Radio Row between 3: 00 and 7: 00 AM in the morning in San Francisco?

I think Michelle has a 2: 00 AM make-up call time.

I think they all must be at least up by 2: 00 AM. They have to be up by at least 2: 00 AM just to prepare a full day's show. All of them, I don't know how they're sleeping this week. You'd have to go to sleep at 6: 00. You'd to go to sleep at 6: 00 at night in order to do a morning show.

Should we have someone on from that show? When our show starts, what's it like? Paint the picture for us. Nobody's here.

Yeah, there's not going to be... I mean, they're going to be 3: 00 AM.

There's no janitors even there.

There's not going to be anybody there. It's going to be lonelier than when Kevin Rogers saw Lincoln Kennedy.

I was there for that.

You were? Yeah. Can you paint the picture for us?

No, it's just Kevin's doing his night show there. I was still there because I think we were going to go somewhere, to some party afterwards.

The FHM party.

Maybe. I was waiting for Kevin to be done.

I'm pretty sure it was the FHM party.

And Lincoln Kennedy.

Well, hold on a second. You don't have to recreate it or paraphrase it. We have the sound. Lincoln Kennedy, what's up, man? Yeah, I'm working.

Where are you going?

You're on the FHM party tonight? You're on FHM tonight?

All right.

I'll see you later.

All right. We'll see you later. Zaz, you were somewhere to Just to the right of K-Rod.

Yeah, I was sitting at that table. Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, but it sounds like if we could play that again, Lincoln Kennedy is saying you're not there. He's saying no one is there.

Lincoln Kennedy, what's up, man?

Yeah, I'm working.

Where are you Are you on the FHM party tonight?

You're on FHM tonight?

All right.

I'll see you later.

I'm sure Lincoln Kennedy was just looking at his watch wondering, When's K-Rod going to get here?

They had a great night together at the FHM party. I'm sure they caught up.

I want to talk about something that happened this weekend. I don't know why it is I would be surprised that competitive people, competitionahologs, as they age, would go to every length and measure, including possible cheating. In order to get advantages. I don't know if you saw that Paul George made nine threes. The game, Paul George has been pretty bad for them over the course of this season. They need Maxi and Embiid to do just about everything, and Paul George hasn't given them very much. But he did have one game where he had nine threes, and then they immediately tested him for it. And then he got in a league that is really, really soft on drug suspensions. Nobody in the NBA used to get drug suspensions. Back when marijuana was banned and everyone knew that everyone in the league was smoking marijuana, Kevin Durant smoked so much that he might as well smoke while he's playing. Just run up and down the court smoking while he plays because he's not bashful about that in any way. But nobody gets gonged in that sport because their drug testing system is so useless. But this weekend, Dylan Brooks was making fun of Paul George about this.

He's like, Talk about that on your podcast. I don't think anybody believes any excuses. I don't believe there is any way that a league, especially this league, because it suspends people so infrequently, suspends anybody and the explanation, no matter what it I don't believe there is a single explanation, even if it's an honest, honest mistake, that anyone will believe. I think that this explanation, that I'm taking mental health medicine and I didn't know what I was putting in my body, is as not believable as if he said, I got suspended for 25 games because I drank shampoo, I drank bleach out of one of my mom's shampoo bottles. But it's a great move by Paul George, because I haven't heard that one used before to garner sympathy. Is there a way for anyone who gets suspended 25 games by that league for it to be an honest mistake? And you would believe that it's an honest mistake?

It's really difficult, Dan, especially with as progressive a league as the NBA is as it pertains to mental health. Pretty much everything is allowed. There are some stimulants that are against the rules. However, they even give waivers, provided you present the proper prescription and you just run it by the league. It's really, really difficult to get pinched for something like this in that league.

Yeah. One of two things happened here to Paul George, and anyone who winds up getting pinched for any of these banned substances. Either you tried to cheat and you got caught, all right, or you're incredibly foolish. And the incredibly foolish part is all you have to do is you take the bottle of the thing that you want to take and you go up to your trainer and you say, Can I take this? And then he says yes or no.

It's that simple. It's just like that. It's just like that. And also we're talking about a player that has struggled to stay on the court, that at his age, you can understand if he were to turn to something to get back on the court and have an extended run and show that he's worth the money, it doesn't go beyond the scope of imagination here.

Don Levatard. John, can you rate my Pacino from that billiard scene in Carlito's way, if I do it for you? I think it's pretty good.

Yeah.

Okay. Stugatz. You think you're Big Tom?

Or you're going to die.

Big Tom.

That is on my infamous scale of 1 to 10. That's a 7.

6.

Solid.

Good job, Dan.

Good job, Dan.

That's a Sui nominate right there. That's really good.

This is the Dan Levatard Show with the Stugats. Let's look into the past and see how many players have been popped for something outside of PEDs.

So the last 25 game bans Jody Meeks in 18 for PEDs. Wilson Chandler, PEDs, 25 games. John Collins, 25 games for PEDs, a peptide. Deandre Ayton tested positive for a diuretic. Some say it was and they were trying to wash it through. Bobby Portis, 25 games for a pain medicine, and then Paul George with this very-I also got Tristan Thompson here a couple of years ago. Tristan Thompson, too, but ambiguously mental health medicine, whatever that may be.

So So he didn't name the medicine, and I haven't seen this move used before by anybody. It may have been used, but one of the things that I found interesting about it, never mind the optics or the PR about it, what an amazing shift in that league and the way that league armors up on masculinity for Paul George to say openly, I'm not a cheater. I just need help with mental frailty. I need help with mental illness. What a seismic change in how it is men present as men in that league that the second one is no longer a stigma, at least in part because of what DeMar DeRosen and Kevin Love did. This stuff was never talked about before, where I'm sure he garners at least some sympathy in some corners. I don't think everyone is saying what we are. There's nothing you can say that I will believe if the NBA gets you gone for 25 games. I think many people are saying, Well, maybe, even though it seems fundamentally implausible because of what Zaz is saying. And the reason it seems fundamentally implausible is, Paul George just cost himself $12 million. When the risk is that high, what Zaz is saying is so.

You take your medication to your team doctors and you say, Is this okay for me to use? And that That's how you ingest things. But it's really a seismic shift in everything happening in that league that Paul George is willing to do the double of, No, I'm not cheating. I have that shame. But I'm going to tell all my fellow players in this league something that 10 years ago, none of these guys would have admitted to because nobody in that league wants to admit that they need help.

And I ate it all up. Yeah, Paul, you were looking for a mark I'm your mark. I'm an empath.

I did not believe him, though.

Were you thinking of me when you came up with this excuse? You probably were. I took the bait. Hookline and sinker.

I believe Jeremy took the bait. I believe that I have been scarred by Ryan Braun.

I think I still believe him.

I do.

I've been scarred by Ryan Braun the way that Derrick Rose has been scarred by the Dwyane Wayne statue. Ryan Braun, I did believe because I'm like, Well, he wouldn't do it that forcefully. He wouldn't stand on a field and deny it that forcefully unless he... Nobody would lie that aggressively. Who would lie? No, but that aggressively. Lying is one thing. Lying with defiance and arrogance and scolding reporters and doing it calmly and confidently. Lying that well, I fell for Ryan Braun, but it's the last time I felt like that. They won't get you again, Dano.

Except for maybe this time.

No, not me.

Yeah, come on. He stole. He did that kissy-face thing, and we felt bad about it. Come on, let's believe him. No games. Unsuspend him. Justice for PG.

Unsuspend him. I believe Jeremy might have had a soft spot for everything Paul George was saying, I did not. I immediately thought it was public relations bullshit.

Yeah, it might be naive, but I don't know. I think if you're someone taking drugs for your mental health and you make a tweak to those because something else is going on with your mental health, you might just make that tweak before necessarily consulting with someone within your system or maybe even did. Look, I could be totally misled here, and maybe as someone who takes mental health drugs myself. I'm just looking at it with a level of empathy that is too deep because it's something that I would be really embarrassed about or upset about if it affected my ability to do my job. It's the reason I take drugs is so that I can get out here and perform and do my job and be stable. Maybe if he's someone on... Maybe he needs to take Xanax to be able to fall asleep. Maybe it's one of those types of drugs, but I don't know. I think this is something where I'm going to take the guy at his word, and if I'm proven wrong, if this all ends up being a farce, then I could be even more upset and look at him in a light that is really frustrated with the manipulation of our empathy.

Got another one. Hell, yeah. Knew that Snowflake would join me. He was way stronger on the subject so people can mock him when the truth comes out. Hell, yeah. What's up, Zaz?

What's up, player?

What's up, Trevor? You've ceased being me as that character. You're now doing you as...

You're just doing-No, I'm in the dark recesses of your mind. We're good. No one can hear us. Just you and me, big guy. We look good today.

Can you get me, since Jeremy's reporting is so good, Eric Reid complimenting Jeremy during the telecast yesterday? Impressive investigating journalism for Jeremy Tasheda. That's a good story. That's it. Wow. Good stuff. That was slightly sensuous by John Crotty there. That's it. Am I wrong? What was your story? Wait a minute. Hold on a second. We'll get to the investigative report of Jeremy Tasche in a second. That is dangerously close. I'm going to say this, and I don't do this flippantly. I feel like the way that John Crotty said that is very close to sexual harassment. I'd say. I think he's saying Taché. Oh, Tashay. But there's an undercurrent of I'd say. I'd say. Tashay.

Yeah, now that I hear it, I don't like it.

What was the investigative report, Tashay?

I took a deep dive into the Twitter account, Did Pella Get Hit? Which is a Twitter account that is run for every time Pella Larson gets hit in the face. And of course, Dan, on Saturday night, with six minutes to go in the fourth quarter, he was hit in the face again. So I had reached out to the young person who runs this account. They're a 21-year-old heat fan who first got into Miami Heat basketball. Thanks to the Dwyane Wade dunk over Anderson Varejão. They saw that highlight and said, I got to get into this sport. They also said that they would sacrifice anything for the Miami Heat to win a championship, and that the reason they run the account is because Pela is exactly the type of player who exemplifies heat culture. When I reached out to them for any further comments they might have. They said, Please tell Pella to wear a mask.

The question I want to ask you now that we're all, or most of us, are slightly immune, numb to to drug suspensions and cheaters is, has there ever been that you guys recall an honest mistake? Can any of you remember a situation where a guy is cheating and we have to go back and say, Hey, I'm sorry, we got it all wrong? Where are the mistakes that you would have or the excuses you would have or the explanations that you would have that end up being verified so that the league would be wrong? Because one of the other things that's in play here, Paul George can say what he said because the NBA is contractually legally obligated through collective bargaining to not say anything about it. It's a totally private issue. So he can say whatever he wants, and the league isn't going to counter that. The counter is you're suspended, $12 million is what you end up losing. But can any of you remember a circumstance where the explainer or the excuser is actually being wronged? Is there any such thing as a false positive that any of you remember?

I remember Travis Henry appealed in the NFL, and he actually won the appeal. That's the only one I could ever think of.

That's a good one because I didn't even remember that one. The cynicism around this feels to me like it's earned just because the league does this so rarely and has to be careful about doing it because you're taking $12 million from somebody.

Whatever happened in the Al Jazeera report with Peyton Manning's wife getting stuff, and then all of a sudden, his The neck was okay, they went on a Super Bowl, and then it disappeared. Was he wrong there? Was he not wrong?

It was not reported as he was wrong. He was claiming, That is HGH or testosterone that's being sent to my wife, allegedly. Then it just fated away.

The league apparently looked at DeAndre Ayton's and believe that there was no malicious intent there to bypass the rules. There was zero trace of any PED. But that's the diuretic. But because he had a diuretic in his system. Yeah, but that's enforced in the law. The diuretic that he tested positive for is known to help flush systems out. But that's the last thing I'm seeing on that.

You guys were surprised, were you not, by the Paul George thing? The way that that thing ends up happening, I think everyone has the same reaction, which is, I understand that we're used to these guys cheat, these guys try to cut every corner. Nobody is actually innocent. However, when a suspension arrives, it does so as a bombshell. Like, Paul George being suspended for 25 games suddenly takes over the sports news stream, but you're not surprised by it? No.

I guess Aaron Eckblad got pinched for this, and he was a player that, I guess for his roster, was considered older, even though he's actually not an old man, but had been struggling through injuries, big price tag, wanted to be there for his team, and then found some consistent form. And then we get the positive result, and you realize, Oh, maybe that's how he found it. I look at Paul George, I say that guy's body is broken by a long career. He's trying to live up to a contract. It matches the profile is what I'm trying to tell you.

Oh, but I guess what I should have said, the way that I should have phrased it is, there's an initial surprise, and then what you do is you go through the library of, Oh, old player just made nine threes, has been struggling with a great many injuries. You go retroactively and you do the biography, but the initial news report to me landed like, Whoa, I was surprised. But it had less to do with Paul George than it does with how infrequently that league does that.

But he's been in the league for a long time. He knows the rules. This isn't This is a rookie move. This is a guy that knows if you ever put anything in your body, that run it by your training staff. So it might be the bullshit, Zaz.

It's the bullshit, Dan.

Thank you. Good analysis by all of us. It's the bullshit at Lebitard Show. Put it on the poll. Is that good analysis on the Paul George situation? It's the bullshit. Because I do believe that we got a new form of bullshit at the very least. We're agreeing with that, right? That's not an excuse.

That's a fresh manure. You're right.

A maneuver or manure? Both.

Garner's sympathy from the right bad faith actors that are out there in the media landscape that wanted to be known that they are an empath.

Name some names, come on.

Finally, you say it.

That Woke Queen, Jeremy Tashay, Dan Levatard.

To us, residents.

Oh, wow. That's pretty good. It's in there.

It's better. You think I haven't been practicing?

Stugatz.

I didn't realize we had a substitute complicated legacy.

Brought you by I'm a Toyota. 441 Power Line Road, second down to 9. This is the Dan Levatard show with the Stugatz.

We're good, buddy. No one's looking at us. We keep it moving. Gus Malzohn retired?

Now, you're not doing my character anymore. Hey, hey.

Inner dialog.

That wasn't it. Look, the other- Inner dialog. The other stuff is- What about all these recruits that were betrayed by Gus Malzohn's dog and pony show? The inner monolog was accurate right up until you got to Gus Malzohn. I was not thinking about him, not subconscious.

Mike hasn't been that involved. Look at him. Toss him FSU jump at him. Give him a shot. Work him in the offense.

Haven't been thinking about Gus Malzohn in any way. Don't care about Whether he stays or goes, one of the worst college coaches to ever win a championship. Can you guys get me the sound here of Rick Barnes, who is not a comedian. Rick Barnes doesn't do a whole lot of just off-the-cuff improv when critiquing his players. And he realizes here in real-time, the Tennessee coach, he's been at it a long time. He realizes, Oops, that's not the way I should have said any of that. At the end of the game, some of the passes that we throw, I don't know what to say other than, Sometimes I wonder if my guys are betting on games. I shouldn't say that, but it rates that. I don't want to say that. But I just What's happening? Because I know we're too good of players to do that. Was that a best? I apologize. I shouldn't have said that. That is some great body language. All of that-Being genuine and then oh, crap. He's trying to hide behind his own hand. A lot of covering the face. It's not a good hiding place.

I wish I saw the SID's face.

Well, but I think you did. The camera panned over. Mike, I think you did see the SID's face when he turned to his left and searched and then immediately started apologizing. This is a coach who's been in charge for a long time. This is a man who knows what real power is. Watch how insecure he immediately becomes with body language and everything else, and watch how quickly he looks for the life raft of a public relations director off-screen. At the end of the game, some of the passes that we throw, I don't know what to say other than, sometimes I wonder if my guys are betting on games. I shouldn't say that, but That's what Ray said. I don't want to say that. But I just wonder what's happening. Because I know we're too good of players to do that. Was that a best... I apologize. I shouldn't have said that.

Sid standard like a referee when the kick is going to go. Come on. He's like, No, no, no, no.

It's just the body language is so good because he's initially frustrated by It's just, Oh, we're bad passers. And, Oh, I've made it worse. And then the nervous laughter. And then, Oh, this is a position of power. And, Oh, I cannot have with around point shaving scandals and FBI investigations. I cannot welcome people to wonder whether our bad passes are because my guys are betting on games.

Suspitions are a bit heightened around my sport, specifically. No one was going to be paying attention to anything he said in that press or no one. No one. I defy you. That's correct. Find the Twitter account. That's correct. It's like, Rick Barnes says, Effort means to be better. You would never have heard it. This was so avoidable.

It's not only that it's- Computer Burns, sweeten about it. It's not only that it's avoidable, it's that Rick Barnes, for decades now, has come in and out of press conferences without saying anything at all that anyone cares to remember. He He has a mastery of doing press conferences that no one remembers the echo of anything that he has said.

Thirty-five years strong, Dan. Not a word. I couldn't tell you a word he said outside of that time that he joined us on our show and opened the door to Nascar Talk.

Can you guys think of, in the hypothetical, something worse that he could have said in fiction than it is that he said? Outside of slurs and things that would get you immediately fired, what is the thing that he could have put out there that no one was actually thinking about, worse than the thing that he did put out there.

I tested positive for drug performance because of my mental health.

You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone in sport that has said less over the course of 35 years than Rick Barnes. It's true. This is uncharacteristic.

You know what? I'm giving him a pass. He's already in my book. No problem.

Okay, that's good. I'm sure he feels better about that today. That some guy in Miami who pulled out a Bob Saget shirt that's been in his closet for 30 years this morning because it's too cold, gives him a pass for making what is an identifiably egregious mistake. An egregious mistake that I'm sitting- Identifiably? Shit. I didn't even notice. I did not. That's not in my- Stop talking to me.

As you described an egregious mistake. Identifiably egregious mistake.

That's a play on for me. Go ahead, Dan.

Thank you. I appreciate, Tony, your compassion in these moments. I'm an empath.

Tony's compassion, Chris's compassion for Rick Barnes, but But you're an idiot.

Empathy for Paul George, and I'm a fool. You're a fool.

Tupping up.

At this point, Jeremy, I believe that everyone listening to this, no matter their level of empathy, thinks that people in sports who get caught cheating are actually cheating. I don't know where it changed for you guys. I told you guys the story, right, of this is funny. It's a funny story because I was suspended from ESPN for a year. But no one told me. I didn't know that I was suspended for a year. And the reason I was suspended for a year is because Lance Armstrong was about to host the ESPYs, and I'm like, I don't get it. Lance Lance Armstrong's list of things on circumstantial evidence that he's a cheater is here, and Barry Bonds' list of things that he's a cheater is here, and one of them is Barry Bonds and vilified identifiably, and the other is hosting the espies as an American hero. Lance Armstrong, for me, the boldness of the lies and all of that is a mark, a point where everyone can say, Okay, they're all doing it now, because what he was selling us optically was that he was Captain America, right? So at this point, I'm assuming that anyone who has watched sports for even a modicum of time doesn't believe an excuse that any athlete makes if an athlete is accused of cheating, never mind caught cheating, if it's the Astros or anything else, doesn't it stand to reason?

Never mind athletes getting old and mortality and not wanting to get old. Doesn't it stand to reason that if athletes are looking in every crevice and corner for an advantage, that the pharmacy would be one of them? It's just the most normal thing in the world. And I'd argue that if Paul George has been doing whatever he's been doing that made him have nine threes in a game and look, athletically, he was doing 360 windmill dunks in practice and then got tested. It happened right after that. If that works for Paul George, it's almost worth the risk and the $12 million. If it's something that actually works for an extended period of time. I don't know if he's caught immediately upon using or not. I don't know how it is that that happens. But it would be really bad luck if the first time he's using it is immediately when he gets caught? Of course. Well, okay. So if it actually makes you feel better, what do you imagine Paul George would pay for a fountain, for anything that's a fountain of youth?

So you're saying maybe even though he's losing $12 million right now, maybe he's made countless amount of money because he had not been caught.

I have to count for you. I have to count for you. It's his first time. $406 million in his career that he's made. $12 million isn't even a fraction of that.

You don't even associate that league with catching anybody on this stuff. They don't have that problem. Nobody listening to this thinks that basketball has a performance-enhancing drugs problem. Look, man, last week, David Samson comes on here and says that Michael Jordan, that wasn't a suspension. Michael Jordan left the sport for two years because of whatever was around gambling. And that is where his cynicism and his suspicion, and many people have it, will point to something like Michael Jordan. When I have said, and I have not accused LeBron James of performance-enhancing drugs, but he's an unprecedented human body. And when faced with things I've never seen before in sports, I don't just shrug my shoulders and assume that people aren't using. Who would shock you? Let me do it another way. Is there anyone who would shock you? Because if right now, hypothetically, and I'm not saying this, but if right now, hypothetically, I said, Hey, Shoheya Ohtani, you'd then go back and do like, Well, wait a minute. Of course, it's an unprecedented human body doing unprecedented human things. How surprised am I allowed to be?

Right. We're talking about current players, current active players who we should be surprised?

I'm saying that if we've arrived at a place of cynicism where Mike's shrug in his shoulder, Yeah, Paul George, not surprising, nothing surprising. There's nothing surprising about an athlete cheating? Who's surprising? Are we doing this just physically? Is there someone who's great who could surprise you or would surprise you? Is there anything out there that would be something that the audience would say, I can't believe it. I've had the optics of what I thought a person was have been shattered for me, forever changed. It's not the same way as it was before. That person who I thought was pure is now a cheater.

It's got to be LeBron, right? The longevity, just everything being it. You don't think it would be a massive bombshell?

It'd be a bombshell, but you wouldn't be surprised, would you?

There we go. That's the good stuff. Got other people to accuse LeBron. He's cheating, right? Unless he has a mental health issue, then I'm an ally.

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