Transcript of South Beach Sessions - Brandon Marshall

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Welcome again to South Beach Sessions. Always Always happy when this guy's around. Brandon Marshall, one of the most prolific receivers ever, six-time Pro Bowler, 6, 100 catch seasons in 13 years. Also a bit of a pioneer in both the new media space for athletes and mental health awareness. Before it was popular to be a mental health-aware person in sports. Always appreciated your vulnerability. Thank you for making the time for us.

No, thanks for having me. This is the first time I've been here at the whole setup. This is beautiful. The team is amazing. Do you really mean what you just said, prolific? Because are you just trying to have a great intro?

No, you had 21 catches in a single game, six seasons of 100 catches with no quarterback help. Like, your quarterbacks were pretty I'm glad.

Well, I know my stats, but one of the things you just said is one of the most prolific wide receiver's ever. And so now you're putting me in the same conversation as the best pass catchers that ever. You know what I'm saying, coming into the NFL.

I don't know how many- Because I'm not in the Hall of Fame right now. It's hard to get into the Hall of Fame as a wide receiver. Do you see me as a Hall of Fame receiver? But said, I wish you had had better quarterbacks.

Do you see me as a Hall of Fame wide receiver?

You're right there.

See, that means no.

You're on the edge. That doesn't mean no. I say no. Do you see yourself as one?

Do you have a vote? I don't. Or did you ever have a vote? I don't, no. You should have a vote. But if you had a vote, what would you vote?

Well, I'm in front of you right now. I can't say no.

He said no. It's okay.

No, I can't. No, no, no, no. Wait a minute, though. I'm not saying no because I don't have the numbers in front of me. 6 100 catch seasons is usually good enough to get into the Hall of Fame.

Which is number one in the NFL. You knew that?

I did not know that that was number one. That's number one. Well, see, there you go. That's right. And you didn't have a quarterback. You didn't have a legitimate quarterback. You really turned that... No one has ever turned this around on me faster. We just started and you already got me in a corner.

Yeah, I got you in a little pickle. I turned my phone up. I was going to let you read something that one of the Cliff, who was our... And I don't really care at all, really. I don't. But hearing you say that made me think, does he really mean this? But I was going to turn my phone on and let you read through what our Cliff, Chicago Bear, when I was there, he did all the contracts. He was in charge of his salary cap, and he sent me this memo of why I should be in. And it was like, Wow, this is pretty cool. When you retire, you see things a little differently. You're more grateful. You slow down a little bit. So it's always cool hearing other people's perspective.

I want to be clear, though. I don't have the numbers in front of me to compare you to why it is that Andre Reid or Tori Holt. I don't have them in front of me. That's the only reason I'm being hesitant. I'm not being evasive, nor am I being dishonest with you. I didn't know for example, that you were the only receiver with six 100 catch seasons.

Well, there's two. There's myself and Antonio Brown, I believe. So I'm tied with maybe him and maybe one other. And it's six in a row is the record. It's not just six because you also have Mike Evans. He's done it. It was like, well, he had 10,000-yard seasons, but 100 catch seasons in a row.

But you say you really If you don't care? That seems like not easy to believe that you don't care.

I can understand why because of how I started. But basically, you said prolific, one of the most prolific wide receiver. You know this. I'm a podcast host as well. You want the best intro, et cetera. I just wanted to see if you really believe that. That's it.

Now, where are we on it? Because now we're stuck in the mud. It sounds like you think I don't believe it. No, but just I want to be accurate. I want to have my facts straight when we're doing comparison shopping on this stuff.

Does this show have a budget for a fact checker? Can we get a fact check on that before the end of this show? Can we have someone come in and read him all of my stats and compare them to- You said you know them, so you can make the argument.

You're eligible now, so let's make the argument on your behalf with the person most qualified to make the argument.

I will say this, right? I had 17 different quarterbacks. If I had any of the greats or really good quarterbacks for extended period time, I probably would have finished top five in every single category. 6'5, 2'30. At the time when I was playing, I'm a little overweight right now. I had a fun time out there competing against the best corner is in 101. That's where I made my money, right? And I prided myself on being a man to man. You can count on me.

Well, it doesn't seem like I've ever met a corner that would be large enough to be able to size up with you. Not in my entire life covering sports would I have seen a corner that would have the body that you do.

It's so interesting. Now it's going to come off like, oh, yeah, Brandon really cares about the Hall of Fame. But it all comes from, it stems from Cliff sending me this little this memo. And so I did a little research, I did a chat. And the Pro Football Hall of Fame, so the wide receiver in the Pro Football Hall of Fame makes up 10 % of all the guys that got in. So it's the least voted position in. So it's really tough for a wide receiver to get in. Which I think there's guys like myself and some of the other names that should be in. It actually makes our case even more powerful, more meaningful. Now, when you look at it, I peel back the layers a little bit more. There's only three guys that are 6'5 or taller with those type of numbers. So I look at that as well.

How is it that you were only a fourth-round draft pick? What were the reasons for that? Did you expect something different there on draft day?

No, I don't know. I think we all hope for something different. But for me, I went to UCF. I think it's just part of my journey, my process. I went to UCF, a late bloomer. When I was little, I dominated. But then when you get to high school, if you're not in the right situation, the right environment, go to the right school, all that stuff matters. If I played at University of Miami or if I went to Florida like I was hoping for, maybe I went first or second round. Maybe. Who knows? But I think my journey was perfect for me. And so going to University of Central Florida and only having one real dominant year. My junior year, I played safety. And then my senior year is when I had my breakout. But who are we playing against? Tulsa, no disrespect. You're a big safety.

That's a big hitting safety.

Yes, that would have been fun. So my dream school was the University of Florida. When I was in fourth grade, I had this vision, this dream in the name of being a gator. And I got that opportunity my senior year in high school. Went on a visit, Coach Spur, that's when he went to the then Washington Ridskins, and then insert Ron Zook. So Ron Zook had me as an athlete. So they brought me in and he offered me at safety. And I just looked at him on that Sunday at the end of my recruiting trip in his office. I was like, Coach, man, you can put me anywhere on the field after camp. Give me through camp to prove to you that I can play wide receiver. If I don't, you can put me anywhere in the field. And he looked at me and he was just staring for a few seconds. My father sitting next to me He said, Do you want to be a gator or not? And I just looked at him and I looked at my pups and I said, Thanks for the opportunity. I think I'm going to go to UCF.

You told him that, right?

I told him that. Yes, I told him just like that. And I was That was probably the first big boy decision I had to make. This is my dream as a fourth grader. When I'm getting emotional talking about thinking about the journey, I'm from Pittsburgh. So my father, he loved driving. So we would drive 17, 18 hours from Pittsburgh back down to Florida. And when my father realized my dream and what I wanted to do and where, he would wake me up four in the morning. There was one particular time, four in the morning, we're on the road. He shakes me. He said, Son, son, wake up, wake up, wake up. And I'm like, What? He said, Look. He said, You're on campus. I'm like, Man, you know what that did for me? Walking around campus as a fourth grader, four In the morning, looking at the field, looking at the dormitories, looking at where they work out, looking at where they eat. Just me and my dad. And so to get in that situation, and then you have to say, Man, I I know I can play safety, but I think what's best for me right now is a wide receiver.

I know it's best. I felt that.

You were right.

He was right, too. That conversation about Hall of Fame, people were looking at this. This is crazy. There's not a podcast that I've ever talked like this about my career. I don't know what's happening. Maybe I'm just getting old. But he was right, too. I believe that I would have had a better NFL career at safety. I just didn't want to deal with the stingers. That's the only reason why. I don't want... Man, you hit and you got that stinger, that sensation to go down your hand, and you got to wait 5, 10 minutes for that feeling to come back.

Wait a minute. You think you would have been a better safety than you were as a wide receiver.

Yeah, I think I would have been up there with... Because I was a ballhawk. I was a ballhawk. I was a playmaker. And very good football IQ, so I can see everything. I would say that I would have been more like an Ed Reid type. I would have been more like an Ad Reid, but I would have played the game a little different. So to me, I would have been up there But the best safeties for me is Troy Paul Amalu at Reid. And then we have Sean Taylor in that discussion. And then you can put some of the guys like Brian Dawkins, and there's so many others. I think I would have been up there with those three, Sean Taylor at Reid and Troy Paul Amalu, and my name would have been in there.

You mentioned your father. What can you tell us about the relationship with your father and where and how he imprinted you the most?

Where it stands now is Our relationship is tough. It's not where it needs to be. I don't know if I'm ready to have that conversation publicly. I talk about it sometimes, but I don't ever go into details. He was my hero growing up. People ask me all the time, who did you look up to when you were little, when you were playing ball? What football player impacted you the most? And really, the answer is my father. Where I come from, when I walked out the house, everybody always reminded me how phenomenal and prolific my father was. And that's the truth. But I also admired Barry Sanders. If I I had to give a name, I'm going to say Barry Sanders. That's why I played the game the way I played the game. I was a running back growing up. But the real answer is my dad. I looked up to my father. We came from a tough environment. In Pennsylvania, where we're at the East Out of Pittsburgh, where I grew up, is the poorest county in all of Pennsylvania. So you go to Philly, you go to Pittsburgh. Where I grew up is really tough.

And so that's the environment. A lot of times, if you want to get to know somebody, just look at their childhood, look at the environment they grew up in. I'm sure we'll get into this. It's like, well, why did he make the decision that he made? Or why did he do that? Or why does he act that way? And it's like, do you know where that guy comes from? Do you know what he's dealing with? Now, it's not on us. We can't control what happens to us, but we do control how we respond to it. So as a young man, when you start getting You know, older and you're maturing and you start getting into the world and you're 22, 23, 24, you're making these decisions or you're dealing with these consequences, you can't look back and say, well, I'm from Pittsburgh. I'm from the poorest town in all of Pennsylvania. You got to say, you know what? I got to respond appropriate. And that's where you get into that mental health stuff. And like, how do you start working through the trauma? Or how do you start working through some of those challenges? But it's a forever thing, right?

It's a journey for all of us.

When you say tough environment, though, what are the details that you are thinking of?

I mean, everything that you would see. Watch Snowfall on. Have you ever seen that? No. Oh, you would love it. What shows do you watch?

I'm sorry. Don't judge me.

Okay. So drug dealing, killing, all of that stuff, like gangbanging, all of that. And that's not a unique story. Eighty % of the lead come from these same environments, right? So it's a universal thing for a lot of our athletes, right? Coming from those type of environments.

But how did it form you? I'm not looking to do poverty porn here. I'm just looking at the things that shaped you when you say, Look, we're all products of our environment.

My pain, my sadness gives me my strength. My strength ruin my mind, body, and soul. I've been trapped all my life, not by man or cages, but by my own emotions. Where I've been while traveling inside myself can be summed up by one word: damn. Actually, when I was here and you was covering me in the peak of my chaos, when I was playing for the Dolphins, remember? I ended up at McClane Hospital in an outpatient program. And I was there for three months, Monday through Friday, 9: 00 to 5: 00. I was on campus. And after, I would go to Reebok's headquarters and I would train. This was the year of the lockout, right? So I had this whole offseason. But I also was willing to walk away from the NFL while I was working on myself. And I would write when I would get to the root of something. So you asked the question, How did it shape me? How did it mold me? It made me the football player that I was. That's why I was so great. But then once I walked in a locker room or left the facility, I didn't have that switch.

I didn't have the skills or the tools to be able to just breathe. You're not fighting right now. You're not in survival mode. That works on the field, but it doesn't work in relationships. It doesn't work in this environment. So dialectal behavior therapy was A blessing for me. Mentalization therapy, cognitive behavior therapy, one-on-ones with the great Dr. Gunderson. And then before that, just a clinical evaluation to see what's going on.

You weren't doing much in the way of introspection before that when you describe as chaos, when you describe this is the chaotic time, were you doing introspection? I imagine you were doing some thinking, but not necessarily learning or knowing the things you needed to know about yourself.

This is why a lot of us I would say high performers suffer. And let's be specific here on athletes because I don't want to just put stigma around the athlete. But yeah, the introspective work was, how do I become a better football player. I'm watching film. How do I run that route better? How do I get stronger? How do I get faster? That's what consumes you. And that's why a lot of us struggle is because our identity is wrapped up in that or we think that's who we are. So no, it wasn't until I fell flat in my face and listening to you guys hold me accountable or talk about me or in the situations, the way all did. And that's what makes you look in the mirror when you're watching you on ESPN. It's like, that's the worst thing you can hear. When you fall on your face or you just got arrested or something happened and then you turn on ESPN, it's like, da-na-na, da-na-na. How it goes? Da-na-na, da-na-na, whatever it is. And then it's like, Brandon Marshall, blah, blah, blah, blah, Good and bad, too. That's cool, too. When it's like, oh, Brandon Marshall, he made the top 10 highlights, et cetera, et cetera.

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So what was going on in your life then? Do you regard the Miami time as the hardest time during the professional time, or is there another time that you view as more chaotic than that?

Well, now, looking back on my entire NFL career was I mean, it was rocky. It was up and down. I don't think I ever enjoyed it, to the fullest, because I was always dealing with something, fighting something, right? But Miami, I would say, was the most impactful in the beautifulest moment because that's when I actually went to McLean. And that's when I was like, oh, football is the platform, but not my purpose. Let me go do this work. And that's when I found my purpose.

And that's the mental health stuff. As soon as you got there, you get on campus and now some of the stuff that's been troubling you has a name, right? You feel less lonely with it, right?

That's right. 100 %. The first thing you do is you go through a neurological evaluation or neurological evaluation, clinical evaluation to see what's going on with your brain. Or that's where they see if you may be living with something, right? Anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, so many things out there. And then in this particular program, I came at the right time because they had an event or a lot of specialists on campus, and they were doing workshops and seminars and all of that. I was listening to all the experts in the space. This is the number two psychiatric hospital in the entire world. I was listening to them. But the thing that was the most impactful was there was a panel with all patients. Someone that was there in a program for six weeks or was there for six months or almost like an alum coming back from six years ago, 10 years ago. And I was hearing their experiences. That was the first time I was able to put the name to it. I was like, Oh, there's other people that feel this way. You know what I'm saying? And then I'm seeing like, Oh, you've been here six weeks, and you're saying, Oh, you feel better, or you're stronger, or this works.

So that was the coolest thing for me is seeing other people. And that's I jumped into that work. I was like, Damn, no one's talking about it. And came back and I had a press conference with the Dolphins. And that was the first time someone in camp, the NFL Network, and I think maybe the ESPN, they all showed it. They broadcast it. And it was 20, 30 minutes straight. And I was talking about mental health. And I was talking about my experience. And yeah, it was the first time someone in that space, like that, talked about it.

Liberating?

I didn't look at it that way, and I still don't think it's like that's my life's work and my purpose. I didn't look at it that way. What was disappointing was me doing that. It was I knew I had to do that. And then I literally walked off the stage and I had a teammate pulled me to the side and then walked me closer to the door where no one can hear. And he said, Man, thank you for doing that. I struggle with that as well. And I was disappointed because I'm like, damn, I just told the world I was vulnerable and you're whispering to me because you don't want one or two people to hear. Obviously, you didn't want to get out in the middle. But I was like, man. So that's what gave me the fuel to continue to tell my story and put things in place to help others.

The combination, though, of football and masculinity seemed like two things that would work really against you sharing your vulnerability with anybody. And then there are a whole assortment of people that can't be trusted to behave with that vulnerability the way that you would like them to or to treat it with care.

Man, that's interesting. Listen to People thought I was my coaches, right? Because I start operating differently. I would come into the facility and I'm like, Hey, coach, can we talk about this? This is my second year with the Dolphins. Remember, I played two years with Dolph, and then I got traded after. That second year, I was meditating on the field. Like me and Ricky Williams, it's two peas in a pot.

He loved you. Ricky loved talking to you. He said, Finally, somebody who's a bit of a kindred spirit in terms of just being able to express themselves.

That's right. So I was meditating in the way I conversated or I would communicate. It was different. Like, Hey, when you did this, it made me feel this way. And they're like, first off, it's coming from me. And then second, in that environment, like, What the hell are you talking about? So I would go up to the office instead of asking for the ball. And certain things like, Hey, let's talk through this. What are you thinking? Let me tell you what I'm thinking. They're like, What? You understand? And then afterwards, I get shipped off and people People still think it was drama. I said, We just started off 0-6, and now we're saying we're going to draft a rookie quarterback. Who are we drafting? And so the new regime, I was having that real conversation with them. They were like, We can't have this guy messing up Ryan Tannehill. We got to ship him out of here. Which ended up working for me because Jay Cutler, I reunited with Jay Cutler and I love playing with Jay. And so it worked out for everybody. But it wasn't no real smoke or no beef. It was just, Hey, we just start off 06, and I don't want to be a part of nothing like this again.

And they didn't love that coming from a player.

When you said you get to McClane and you're listening to people and you are listening to how they feel, how did you feel upon arrival? What was going on inside? What was the pain that you're talking about that shaped you?

So how did I feel? Well, back up a little bit. So I was married, and I don't know if I'm ready to I'm not trying to talk about it.

You don't have to give me the details to that. I'm not trying to be prying or invasive.

I know, but it's like you got to understand the whole journey to get to how did I feel, right? I'm sitting there and I only went there because I didn't want to lose my wife. That That's it. So I wanted it. I was there and that's the only thing I was thinking about. I didn't even understand what I needed at the time or what was wrong with me. I just wanted my marriage to work, right? And so it wasn't until halfway through where Dr. Gunnison looked at me, said, He said, You keep blaming everybody else. I was talking about Coach McDaniels, my ex. I was talking about this, my wife. I was talking about the Dolphins, everybody. I'm like, Look at how treated me. Look what they said. Look what they did. You don't think that my response is justified? And I kept doing this. I kept pointing at everybody else. And I had that breakthrough moment when Dr. Gunnison, he looked at me, said, How did you contribute? And the way he said it, he didn't talk to me in a therapeutic state or like a therapist. Most therapists like, Hey, what do you do?

He talked to me like a coach. It was the first time someone in that setting talked to me like a coach.

And talked your language.

And he wouldn't love this, rest in peace. Well, maybe I talked about a little bit, but he yelled at me. He talked my language, spoke my language. Why is it everybody else's fault? And that shock me. I was like, This isn't supposed to be therapy. I'm supposed to be laying on the couch. And I thought, you were supposed to just listen to me. And so when he did that, that's the first time I sat back and I listened to him. And then he just kept saying, how did you contribute to it? How did you contribute to it? I don't care if it's 20 %. You need to control And then that's when I start doing the real work. So the first month and a half, it was just that, pointing the finger at everyone. Then the next month and a half, it was like, I don't care what they said or did. Let me just dive into what's going on with me. And that's where I had the biggest breakthrough.

I don't imagine, though, that you would be very trusting necessarily in a relationship. And I don't know that anybody could be in a good, loving relationship if they're not loving themselves correctly either. So there's some of that that you were doing, contributing without realizing you were contributing to it.

You've done therapy.

Yeah, I've done a lot of therapy because I think it's an exceptional toolbox. Why wouldn't I get an expert in mental health to help me provide, to help me have the tools so that I can help myself when I'm not with that person?

Yeah, that's interesting. Minority men, and especially the stigma around us and how our families look at it. Now, it's pretty cool to hear that. Sorry, I didn't know that a part of your journey, but I can hear how you're talking. The questions you're asking is like, Oh, he's done therapy, or he knows what he's talking about here. Yeah, it starts with that. You have to love yourself. But why would you at that point, given what your past was? I was just talking On the way down here, I was talking to my business coach, right? I walked in, I'm seeing what you're doing. I'm getting all these questions like, This is so cool, right? This is the goal for a lot of us. And you are a pioneer in this space. And when you talk about new media, the way I describe new media is more so like athletes. But new media is also you saying, You know what? I'm not going to go to traditional route, the linear route. I'm going to do it myself. And now you look up and it feels like I'm at Series XM or iHeart. I'm like, Whoa, I know these likes.

This room probably cost, I'm sorry to get in your pocket, it probably cost a million dollars to build out, maybe 600,000. But anyways, I was talking to my business coach on the way down here, and I just did one of the coolest things in my My journey, right? I'm in your footsteps, following your footsteps. So I just sign this production deal with Netflix, not a podcast deal, a production deal.

Congratulations. Thank you.

But I was telling them like, But I'm not as excited as everybody else. Everybody else right now, Oh, my God, it's a big deal. So cool. But I'm looking at right now, I was like, I I don't look how I feel right now. I'm out of shape. I'm overweight. I got this relationship, that relationship that I need to tweak and get right. There's some certain things in my personal life that I just got to get right. So to your point, it's like, can you trust? But it starts with, do you love yourself? Are you happy with where you're at? And when you get older, you start understanding that none of this stuff really matters. It's like, how are you? Are you okay? And you think, Oh, I get more. I get more studio. I get another deal. That stuff at the end of the day, is the stuff that's driving us crazy. You got to be right.

Oh, the chase can have an absence of joy in it if you're not really present in gratitude, appreciation, and- That's right. Because there are any number of problems that will present themselves every day that will get in the way of it. That's right.

That's everything.

And if you're competitive the way that you are, and if you're used to conquer the way that you are, and nothing will ever feel like football does. Nothing will. How good it? Because nobody gets their identity stripped from them at 35 years old. Preaching.

Well, that's part of it is the reprogramming of yourself. To be in a position I'm in now, you go from chasing to attracting. That was a good one. Yeah. And that's a beautiful thing. I tell my team now, it's like, no, just focus. This is where we're at and we got to go do this and Super Bowl is coming. No, no, no. Whatever is supposed to happen is going to happen. It's going to come, but don't chase it. Don't chase it. In the past, Ball or even early on in my entrepreneur journey, all the opportunities. Let's be everywhere. Let's do it. No, no, no. This is where we're at right now. Just own where we're at right now and see what happens.

Are you gentle with yourself?

Yes, yes. And I'm super protective of myself right now, which causes a lot of problems. A lot of people don't understand. They may say, Well, why you don't trust people. Or, This is a negative way to look at things and it's like, no, I'm protecting myself right now, which is a version of being gentle. I'm very protective of who I let in, whether that is just a conversation I'm having or in my business or in my home. You're super protective, man. That stuff matters. Everybody's not for you. Everybody's not for you.

I would imagine you've spent a great deal of your life, though, in a bit of protection mode, no. I mean, if you come from a poor background that has some of the stuff in it that I would find in Snowfall, if I were to be watching it the way that you suggest that I should be and judge me for not doing, and then you get professional football. I don't know how much anyone is prepared for whatever comes with that celebrity. And then you have the other step of leaving professional football and being stripped down to, now who are you? I would imagine that you've spent your entire life in a form of protection.

You're 100 % correct. That's what it is, right? It's survival mode. When you come from those areas, you're not necessarily thriving, you're surviving. Step outside, it could be a wrong turn or putting on the wrong color, walking down the wrong street could be the difference between life or death, right? So as soon as you step out your house, you got to be aware of everything. And then when you make it to the league, it creates a different challenge and element to it where it's like you come from survival, so you're already watching everybody and all your moves. But then you make it to the league and everybody that comes in your space, it's like they're trying to sell you something. They want something, right? So now you create this wall where it's like anybody that comes into your space is like, who are you? Why are you here? What do you want? That's not a healthy place to live in if you're not seeing it through the right lens.

And your mother's 19 when she has you. So what are you learning about relationships in your home?

Well, I mean, now we're talking about why do we operate the way we operate, how we open up this show is like, do you know that kid's journey? So let's put it into this setting that our sports fans may understand this because an emotional conversation like this or a therapeutic conversation like this could go over some people's heads, right? Some people may not want to hear it. But if I am an owner or general manager, and I got to hire a coach, right? We just had 10 job openings, right? The first thing I'm looking for is a leader of men, okay? So the Mike Thomas of the world is so much needed now because of all these challenges that we're talking about. So organization. So not only Mike Tomlin, do I want Mike Tomlin to understand, I need the general manager, I need the owners, I need everybody in the building to understand. All right, let's go really deep into this kid's childhood. Let's see how he operates and that's going to... Or his experiences. That's going to tell us how he operates and how he's going to handle things. You just mentioned my mom, so I bring that back into it.

It's like 19, What she went through, right? So she became an alcoholic, and now she's 10 years sober. So she's doing a phenomenal job now. And she's the most beautiful, beautiful woman in the world right now, inside and out. But when I was growing up, she wasn't there to nurture. So then you get into the whole conversation of you have daddy issues, mommy issues, right? The feminine and masculine energy are both critical, right? You can't just grow up so macho and so masculine. You also got to have a softer side, a more vulnerable side, man and women. But if your mom isn't there to nurture that and your father's not there to build the other side, then you're just rough, right? And so, yeah, You brought up my mom, and that's the first thing I thought about was that. It's like our journey together. But she was 19 and she came from that same environment. My mother was molested, right? And these are things that she talks about publicly and openly, and it's her story and how she's helping others. But then you're a young person dealing with all this and you haven't healed from that, and then you bring children into the world, then what happens?

The things that we don't deal with, our kids, I have to deal with.

And so how did that instruct your relationships, what you were seeing in the home or were not seeing in the home?

I think the biggest challenge for me is when you're first-generation, not first-generation millionaire, not first-generation to graduate college, none of that. But when you're first-generation aware, damn, we come from these troubling environments and this toxic culture in our neighborhoods, et cetera. There's better. This is how we're supposed to be talking to each other. This is how we're supposed to operate. You just try to change it, especially if you're competitive. And this is why I said I didn't really enjoy looking back on that. I didn't really get everything out of the league, right? And it's sad because that was my dream as a four, five-year-old. I want to play in the NFL. I accomplished everything. That's one of the things I remember thinking about when I was at McClane Hospital when I first got there. And I was sitting there and I was like, damn, I got to dream again. I had this dream in place since I was a baby. And now I'm sitting here at 22 Well, I was thinking at 22, I accomplished everything. What's next? I spent my time in the league like, Hey, Mom, like fighting my Mom, in a good way.

Mom, I think you're an alcoholic. Mom, we can't eat like that. We can't drink like that. And I was doing that in all my areas, in my brothers, my sisters, my mom, my dad. Like, Yo, we can be better. We can be better. And we talk about generational stuff there. And it's like it takes... We needed some experts and a different approach. I was just trying to will that to my family. So I spent pretty much my entire career just trying to shove it down people's throat. Like, no, we can be better, we can be healthier. And that created a lot of friction in my family. Now, thank God, me and my mom, we saw when she broke through, she was able to receive that. But there's some fractured relationships because not everybody can handle that. And also what I realized, not everybody want to be better. So why Why am I, and we, people who are in this position, fighting so hard, trying to teach people how to fish?

Your drinking, is it learned? Were you having fun?

Oh, I got a DUI, but that was just immaturity and just being young and dumb and not understanding a vehicle can kill someone. Thank God that didn't happen. So No. No. Yeah, alcohol, substance, right? Using that stuff the wrong way can put you in a position to lose your life, right? Like even Henry Rugs, right? You have one night out and then you drive 100 something miles per hour. A young lady and her dog is gone and now you're behind bars, right? So I think some of that is for a lot of us just immaturity. For me, thank God, I didn't have any substance abuse issues. And that's where the mental health stuff can get really challenging when people are dual diagnosed. It could be I'm dealing with this, this, and a substance abuse issue. So when I was at McClane, one of the things that I would do is some of the people in my group that was dealing with those things. We were just like a family. We just hang out. So I had a few people in my group that dealt with substance abuse issues, and they would go to AA outside of the program that we were in.

And I went. And it was the coolest thing ever. And that's when I was sitting there listening to their stories, and I went and got a pamphlet after, and I said, Oh, I think this is my mom. And so that's when I started having that conversation with my mom, Mom, I think this is you. And she didn't get it right away. I was playing for the Dolphins and I was on date night. I'd never forget. I was coming down Sheridan and about to turn on 172nd. And then I get a call from my mom, 11 o'clock, and she's crying. And she's like, Baby, I need help. You're right. I just finished watching Mary J. Blies' story, and that's me. And I said, Wow, okay. I said, Let's do this. And then she ended up going to Betty Ford, et cetera, et cetera. But that was after a year or two of just like, This is you, mom, this is you, Mom. This is you, Mom. Maybe I just planted the seeds, but Mary J. Blie's story, which I can't wait to connect them to. I always say that any time I talk about my mom's story, I can't wait until I'm in a position I can put them two together.

It's like, sometimes you know as a celebrity or an athlete, your reach and how you bless people. And those are the coolest things when people come to you like, No, no, you really helped me. You really blessed me. And so Mary J. Blige saved my mom's life.

Take us through that part of the journey where you're like, Okay, now I have a classification.

I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorders, BPD. And the best way to describe BPD is like an emotional disorder. Can you self-regulate, right? So now you can see myself out there I'm in a fight and the guy didn't throw me the ball or something happened and it's like, on the sideline. We see that a lot. Do you have the skills and tools to be able to self-regulate? Say, I didn't have those skills and tools the first couple of years in my career and even as an adolescence. So that's where self-assessment, dolly to behavior therapy, mentalization therapy, and all the work at McClane, where that worked helped out at. And it's this emotional disorder, right? And that's why you have to learn those things. There isn't any medicine for it. It's a difficult thing to treat, and some impossible, but if you get in the right program, it's smooth. And BPD, borderline personality disorder, like I said, it's an emotional disorder, but It presents itself in over like 260 different ways. Go back to Ricky Williams. I ended up at that program because the first day I got to Miami, Run Ricky, Run came out and he had his premiere down on South Beach.

And so I remember sitting there and watching that and I was like, Oh, that's cool. I was like, That's cool. But I think that guy that he's talking to is the guy that I talked to two years ago. The NFL flew me out there to Boston to meet with this guy just to do evaluation, not even evaluation, just to talk to. And then I flew home. That's it. Just one time. Then I seen this guy in this documentary. Now, a year later, when I'm out there, well, that The whole year, I'm talking to Ricky, and I'm like, Ricky, man, do you think I'm bipolar or something, man? Because I keep coming in. The coach say this BS, and then I respond this way. And it's like, I can't even control my feelings and what I want to say. And he's like, no, Brandon, I don't think you're bipolar. I just think you say the things that we all want to say and shouldn't say.

That sounded a little more like Michael Jackson than it did Ricky.

Right. Or Ricky talks so soft.

No, I know.

I know. No, I don't think he... But I'm saying that because Ricky opening up, and then also I had that connection with the same guy in that documentary. And I started connecting with him and asking him questions. And how I ended up there was because I was having those conversations with Ricky, and I looked at that, I said, Man, If this guy in this hospital helped Ricky, then they can help me. That's how I was thinking then, right? Because in that documentary, Run Ricky, Run, we're talking about a guy who just signed for $8 million or whatnot, and then he went to Australia, lived in a tent, right? So I'm like, Man, not knowing how complex all this stuff is and his story is different, because even Ricky, to this day, I think that he'll talk about his diagnosis a little different than I would, right? But that same doctor, Dr. Gunnison, they talked about borderline personality disorder. Boom. And so that's my journey with it. But look at the difference. Ricky Williams and then Brandon Marshall, two different stories. That's what I mean by it presents myself differently.

But having a name for it, being less alone with it. Like, what did it do to have some tools?

Everything. So as soon as I got that diagnosis, and I have a shot this whole documentary, And so I have this footage I never put out. But I got this moment in my hotel in Boston after I got the diagnosis, and I called my longtime assistant, Cathy Lena. I'm like, Cathy, have you ever heard of BPD? I couldn't even say it, but the smile on my face, my energy, even in that clip, it changed. You can see it. And I always say that that diagnosis was 50 % of the work. Just knowing that there's something that you can label this, and then there's a program or there's work that you can do. I said, Oh, this is easy. Now, I'm used to the work. I'm used to the commitment. So now you're saying, I just need to go through these programs, DPT and CBT, all that. Okay, great. Sign me up.

Because you're an achiever, you can work. If you can be given tools to apply football mentality to this, you're going to put in the work. What was happening Anything right before that? Did you think you were crazy? Were you being nice to yourself? Were you like, Why can't I control my emotions? Do I have anger management issues? What's the self-assessment you're doing before this?

Nothing before. Everybody was the problem. When I got to the Dolphins, just signed the biggest contract at the wide receiver position. And it was intense. I would say the Miami media was harder than the New York media. And a lot of people say, It was so hard in New York. And man, Miami was different when I got here. And the way I was covered, rightfully so. And I would say rightfully so. There were some things that was like, This is a little too much. But it was really tough. So When I'm sitting here and I'm like, Now they gave me the money, and now I can act accordingly because I'm happy. I got what I deserve. That was the problem, is Josh Chris McDaniels didn't pay me in the way he treated me. And then you still have those moments in practice or in meetings that leads to the conversation with Ricky. When you're like, I'm going to go in today. I know this coach is going to say something crazy. I just had 120 yards. I just had a shutdown, and he's going to try to rip me the shreds of why I'm not great.

This offensive coordinator has come in. Last week, he said, Hey, sometimes when you these big acquisitions, it doesn't always pan out. I knew that was a shot at me. Yeah, I know. But you know what? I see it. Don't say nothing. And then Coach puts it, put this up. Brandon, the The Vawn best 56 %. I mean, you're sitting here every time we target you 56 % completion percentage. The Vawn's at 80, right? Like, Yeah, you had this and that. And I'm like, what the And I take my Gatorade, throw it at the wall and walk out. Why did you do that? And then that leads to, Hey, Ricky, do you think I'm bipolar? No, Brandon, I think you just say the things that we all want to say that shouldn't say. So that's where I started to have that... I start really assessing and looking at myself. And so before the situation I was talking about where it led me to McClane Hospital, I was flying myself up to McClane Hospital once a month, right? And nobody knew it, right? Because after that conversation with Ricky, so I was like, If that guy can help you, then he'll help me.

So I start flying up there and everything's going smooth. And then it wasn't until a couple of months later, he was like, Brett, I think you should come. You'll benefit from really coming up here for an extended period of time.

What do you regard as the most joyous time in your life? Is it now or is joy a struggle for you?

I think joy is a struggle for a lot of high performers because you're chasing. There's a lot of highlights in my life, but what I'm excited about now is just peace, not chasing. So I think the best days are ahead of me. But the best highlights. I mean, yeah, I talk about the NFL the way I do, but man, there were some dope moments in the NFL, right? There were some dope moments in my childhood, right? Where I come from, We used to have the... This is one of my favorite childhood memories. We take our monkey wrench and we pop up in the fire hydrant, right? And you see those old school movies, the kids in the street playing with the water, et cetera, et cetera. So a lot of amazing moments, right? But I know my better days are ahead of me, you know?

I don't believe, and I'm going to press you on this, I don't believe you answered the question about what you learned about relationships in your home because you're saying you're growing up, you're feeling quite alone, yes?

Well, I didn't know at the time. No, I wouldn't say I grew up feeling alone. I didn't know. I think when you get older and you go through that therapeutic process and you start like... That's why I didn't like it. I was like, Oh, you did therapy. When you start, there are certain things that you learned and you can look back and be like, Oh, This is how my childhood went. What I learned about relationships, there was a lot of negative that I learned about relationships growing up and in my childhood, right? I think that where I came from and a lot of people come from that do what I do or did what I did, we think that We have to stay with family. Oh, this is blood. So what we do is it's like they can cross your boundaries, they can be disrespectful. It's like, okay, we'll move forward. And so That's just not true. I think that boundaries and respect is important in how we treat each other. And if those boundaries are crossed or if there's no respect there, then you should move on from the relationship. And so that's what I learned about relationships early that I had to fix later.

Do you have something that you're prouder of than everything else? Is there something that fills you with self-esteem more than all the other things?

Yeah, I think that my entire journey, it's tough. But like you said earlier, first to do this, first to do that. That's a part of my journey. So I really appreciate the journey. And that's what Coach Sperano, rest in peace, he was our head coach for the Dolphins, love him. He was one of the greatest leaders of men ever. And that was the first time I ever heard that saying. And it was, Embrace the journey not the destination, which everyone says. But that was my first time hearing that. And I really do, man. So all of that. But my kids, I have twins that are 11 years old and I have a six-year-old. They're freaking phenomenal. Also, what I've been able to build off the field, freaking phenomenal. It's not easy, but I enjoy it. That's the first time that I've been able to take my mind and use my mind to create what I want instead of my body. You're out there. I don't know, I say it's easy going out there catching a football, doing all of that. But being able to use this It's pretty cool. So that gives me a lot of joy.

And also it gives me a lot of joy now I'm becoming a sushi chef. So now every Tuesday, I come down to Miami with my guy, We, and I'm learning everything about it. So That's pretty cool.

You know you're strong, right?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Because it's been tested again and again. So I would assume that you're pretty proud of that as well. What have you learned not to do in parenting because of how you grew up and because you don't want that feeling for the things in life you love the most?

That's scary, man. Sometimes I feel like I'm projecting as a parent.

I'm not trying to judge your parents. I'm just trying to figure out how it is that you want to make sure that your kids have a different experience with life than the one that you had.

I think that the most important thing is love. Just being there. So love and being present. That's the only thing that matters. Now as this entrepreneur in chasing, there's the first couple of years of their life, I'm still focused on me and trying to build this empire and all of that. And then it's like you miss things. So early on and quickly, I had to redirect that like, No, this is important. So now I I could be sitting down with the CEO of Netflix or Brandon, head of non-fiction at Netflix, the bosses. If my kids call, I'm always going to pick up the phone. There's been so many meetings, big meetings where people call me. Hey, this is just my rule. My kids call. I'm always there because my kids don't call me all the time. So if my son calls, that's important to me. I'm going to be there. So I think those are the things that matters the most. And I think what scares me, though, is I don't want to parent from this place, but I'm like, Man, I don't want to be... I remember when I was 22, 24, you talk about being alone.

That's when I felt alone. Really, it's like, 'Dang, I don't got my father right now to help me navigate through this situation or Now I got, how do I buy this house or how should I be looking through that, looking at this? ' And I don't want my son to do that or my daughter. I don't want my sons or my daughters, my daughter to go through that, right? So that's what I'm afraid of is not having relationship like your pups. That's why every time I always say that, man, you can see the reverence, you can see the respect. And I think that's what we all want, is that relationship. I always want my sons to just have that.

It came about later, though, you should know. I had a much better relationship later in life. Not to say it was a bad relationship. My father was just working a lot. It's an exiled community. The thing he was teaching is work, work, work, work, work. And so the bond of the relationship actually came I knew him coaching my teams, but it became stronger later in life as I became an adult who got good at taking care of the child me that had a lot of difficulty with the fact that I was trying to please a man who didn't do pleasure. I had a hard time making him proud. And so I personalized the fact that I wanted to please him, and he wasn't really somebody who did a lot of pleasure. He was busy, and it's an exile living, right? So there was also a lot of fear in my household that a child doesn't really even know how to absorb.

Wow. So you really do understand what I'm saying. Those daddy issues, mommy issues, survival, right? And a lot of people... This conversation that we're having right now is just so surface level. People that's listening or watching this, they just start going a little deeper into these things. Like, do I have daddy issues or mommy?

How it affects you and how you operate. But, Brandon, you came from something much harder than I did, though. Just Even knowing superficially what it is that you come from.

Yes and no. But that's the thing. Like, yes and no. The most important thing is even at what you said, exile, community in that type of mindset. That's survival. So my survival may look a little different than your survival, but I know what survival does to your mind and then how you put that into the world. So yes, but like, man, nobody wants to be in survival.

Well, the part that I can't really understand that I'm even now in my late 50s coming to grips with because I don't remember a lot of things in my childhood. I don't have a lot of childhood memories. But I now know that my home was filled with fear because my mother was holding my hand. I had seizures. I was absorbing some of the fears of them being in a new country, them not speaking very much English, them being married very young, not knowing how to navigate a relationship as young people. So I don't know. I'm just beginning to learn how some of those traumas manifest. You mentioned trauma early. I don't know what you identify as your trauma, like what's embedded in you.

Wow. I mean, we'll be here another hour. That's why I leaned into the survival. It's just how you operate. Like, the first thing is Relationships are important, how you see people. You talked about trust. But when you're six years old, I felt like something was going to happen to me. Like, that was a real feeling for me. I go to another neighborhood, my aunt's neighborhood, right? And my brother and I were walking in the back streets. Why? Because we know that this is blood territory. There's Cribs, there's Bloods, there's other people in different neighborhoods. But I come from this neighborhood. At six, seven years old, you're thinking about that.

Yeah, that's not a trauma.

That's trauma. But that's shaping how I view people, how I treat people, how I navigate through the rural. So now when you have Coach Shanaher or Mr. B, the owner of the Denver Bronco, is talking to me. If you give respect, you get respect. There ain't no hierarchy boss and all of that. So there's times it's like, Hey, bro, you can't talk to me like that. Don't talk to me that way. That comes from trauma.

So you're telling Mike Shanaher, Don't talk to me that way?

I ain't ever did. I ain't did Big Mike that way. No, but no, No, no, no. I never did that. But there's a... No, I never did. But other coaches I did, me and Coach Shanaher, we never had that type of moment. But I had I was playing for the Chicago Bears, and when I start really leaning into the mental health stuff, and I wore lime green cleats on the field, and I was trying to establish lime green as the official color for mental health, like cancer has yellow and with Liv Strong, Lance Armstrong did. And so I took advantage of this moment. They ended up finding me. The story has been told already. They weren't going to let me play the game. So that was the whole thing. And then after the game, I had this walk with George McCasky, Mr. Mccaskey, and they were just like... They didn't like the way I wear my socks. And then I also wore this lime green cleats. And I just looked at them and I was just like, How long have you guys owned the Chicago Beers? I said, Yeah, I got three years to establish something that last that long for my family or the world.

And so respectfully, any time I get an opportunity to wear lime green cleats That's what I'm going to do. And if you don't like it, I guess you may have to trade me. I said, Now the socks, I understand, right? It didn't look good with the orange and the lime green, so I wear all blue. So I can tweak that, but I'll never change my approach to mental health. That's how I handle that situation when it's like, I don't... Yeah, you're the owner, but I also stand for something as well.

Before we get out of here, what would you like the people to know about Project 375? Some of which was born in here, right?

Yeah. So Project 375 now, well, here's what I want to say. I want to leave you guys with this. We got to take care of ourselves first. And here are five things that you can do, right? Number one, you got to train. You got to take care of yourself. And that's why I say it earlier in the show. It's like how I feel about myself. I'm overweight. That stuff matters because it affects your mood. Endorphins and so many things get released. It affects you. We got to take care of ourselves. We got to be able to train. So that's number one. Number two, fuel, how we eat, what we're drinking, what we're putting in our bodies. We got to eat better. The food that we're consuming is killing us. The third is mental. These are my five pillars. The third is mental. If you need talk therapy, it's okay. It's okay to talk to someone. Fourth is recover. We're not sleeping, it's grind and hustle culture and mindset. No, you got to be able to say, Let me turn off the phone. Let me turn off the laptop. Let me get to sleep. Let me take care of myself.

And the last thing is team, right? You got to surround yourself with key people. And you're blessed If you have 2-3 to four, it got to be everybody. But you need to have certain people in your life that you can walk with that you call confidence. Those are my five pillars. That's where I always want to lead people. I take care of yourself.

Appreciate your way of being. Appreciate your style. Appreciate I appreciate your vulnerability and appreciate your growth, sir. Thank you for spending this time with us. I meant what I said about you being prolific. You had me sweating early on because I don't have the numbers in front of me on the Hall of Fame. Did our crack... They didn't do anything. Our crack research staff didn't do anything. They just sat there and ignored everything we were doing. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you.

Thank you. What a blessing.