Transcript of Hour 2: Cheese Doodles for Stephen A. (feat. Yaron Weitzman)

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This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats podcast.

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I don't know what defensive metrics Mike uses, but Greg Cody during the break was howling, yelling at everyone. The Colts allow the sixth fewest points in the league on defense.

Points, I mean, but you can throw all over them and they've been in advantageous positions, often controlling games. But I mean, you're a fantasy savant there. Greg Cody, if you got a wide receiver, you're starting them against the Indianapolis Colts. I think that they're a team that is highly reliant on turning the ball over. We'll see if they can repeat that in the postseason, but I don't know if it's possible. This was a whole thing with Miles Garrett in the offseason when he was trying to leverage like it was reported to be an impossible contract to move. But if there is a team that can make it work, that you could absolutely trust them if they get someone like Myles Garrett and then all of a sudden you would see a huge change in their odds and it'd probably be Indianapolis.

Yeah, I would just say that when you have that kind of a point differential and you get out to big leads like Indy has tended to do, the other teams are going to pass a lot. So the passing statistics are going to rise. You know, the yards against are very high, but I think that's a product of the way they win games.

Well, I think one of the things that happens with them is not unlike what happened with Houston and San Francisco this weekend where San Francisco can't do anything because they don't have the ball. The Colts are controlling the games with their offense against every everybody. But let's get to not baseball. Even though Jeremy continues to be insanely mad that we're not talking more about the World Series, let's go on to LeBron, something we don't talk a lot about.

We haven't had enough LeBron.

Yeah, we've got Jerome Weitzman here who has a couple of books. The latest one was the one we were talking about last week, A Hollywood the dreams and drama of the LeBron Lakers. He began his career, this is an award winning NBA writer, but he began his career by being the guy who brought Stephen A. Smith his cheese cheese doodles. Like that was the first job that he had and he parlayed that into a book about the Lakers. A pretty good deal thank you, Jerome. Thank you for being on with us. Have a lot to talk to you about. I guess the detail from the book that everyone loves is The Russell Westbrook LeBron's a phony story. Is that the one that you expected to pop when you wrote the book, or did you expect some of the others to pop in the details from the book?

Thanks for having me. I'm also. I'm glad that, that Stephen, a detail gets glanced over too frequently and I'm glad you grabbed onto. Um. Yeah, no, that was the one. You know, when you do this, you kind of, you report and you kind of, you get different details. And that was the one. When I got that, I remember I was sitting on my, on my couch and kind of told my wife after being like, oh, I think we got the excerpt here. Like, I think this is it. I just. Because it has the personalities and I feel like sports books should have some silliness to them too. And the Will Smith being involved there just six months after the slap just makes it perfect. So that was. I was pretty happy with that one.

I have a number of different questions to ask you, but is it true that the Lakers threatened to sue you just when you started down the path of this book?

So not the beginning. So that. That is true. So I'll go behind the scenes here. You know, when I started this, I reached out to the principals, reached out to Jeannie Buss, told her I was going to do this book. We met a few times off the record, and I'm only sharing that because she has referenced, quote, the writer who's doing a book on me, on us in multiple interview or an interview. So I guess I figured we were clear there to then just talk about it. And at some point, I don't know what changed to this day, I don't. But I remember the day of the Dan Hurley news, right? The day it was game one of the. I think it was 2024 NBA Finals, the Lakers. That's the day that WOJ broke that Dan Hurley story. And that evening I get an email from the desk of Marty Singer and I have to Google him after. And he's a famous defamation lawyer. And he says that the. He says that the Lakers, he's basically representing the Lakers. I've described it as like, it wasn't a quite a cease and desist, but a we're watching you.

And then so I figured, you know, there goes informal communication. So I sent them fact checking later on when I was done, but before we were published. And I mean Dan, you know this. You do the fact checking process and I'm okay being told I'm wrong. Like, I'm okay. It's kind of like, let's talk, tell me where you think this context here. Other things to change. And instead of getting on the phone, they had the lawyer send me a really long, aggressive letter. And many of the points were just factually inaccurate. Like to the point where, you know, I sent them a quote from a 2017 LA Times story that was on the record and they said it was fake, things like that. But, and, but the part of the note was, you know, along the lines of, make no mistake, many times people threaten to sue and don't have the means or ability to do so. We. We do. So, I mean, I guess to this day I'm okay. We'll see, I guess.

Did it scare you, though? Did it scare you? You talked to more than 200 people, right? So like, yeah, close to 300.

Yeah. It's so mixed. Like, I mean, listen, part of it. But I was, you know, as a reporter, you're kind of like, oh, I guess I did something right here. So that's a good feeling. It worried me a little bit. I think, you know, the publisher covers it. I also, you know, you go speak to individual lawyers. My publisher's lawyer was very excited. I felt, I think it's something, you know, those guys are kind of used to doing more boring stuff. I think he was very excited to write his letter back to them to explain why they had no case. Like, I had to tone down some of the language there at some point. It was. But I, yeah, it was a little worried. Some of the Lakers are powerful and they have lots of money and I guess I don't. So that'll be a problem.

Well, they're powerful and have lots of money, but I think people would be surprised at what a mom and pop organization they actually are. Like, I know the Lakers prestige is giant, but it's actually a family run organization that doesn't have another business outside of this. How much silliness did you run into when reporting some of this stuff? And were you surprised that the Buss family chose to sell the Lakers when they did?

I'll answer. Yeah, I'm still surprised. And I feel like we have not yet been given. So the book finished. Like I basically got a paragraph in on the sale, but I still feel like we have not been given a good reason why they sold the team. Everyone says, you know, ten billion dollar valuation. Ten billion dollar valuation. Well, I mean, genie Buss has no kids. And they were like, you know, mom and pop. They were still making millions of dollars off the team. The big winner in this is Jay Moore. Honestly, he was the big winner in the. The Lakers sale. Like that guy and his kids. And, you know, the background here is so Jeanne, you know, the six siblings, everyone, or, you know, there was another one who came out of the woodwork later on, but six major ones, four from the original marriage and two younger ones. The way the trust was divided is basically you need four to decide to sell the team. The two younger ones never wanted to. Three older ones always did. Jeannie was always a swing vote. She was always no, no, no, until now. And the part I find interesting, and this is stuff, you know, you uncover as you're looking at it.

But like, after she kind of got rid of her brother and she took over the team, she would always talk about how the Buss family, it was her dad's dream to have them in the fam.

The.

Have the Lakers, excuse me, in the Buss family for years. And the family legacy and all that. And that lasted, I don't know, maybe 10 years, a generation before she decided to sell the team. So, yeah, I think it's surprising and I still don't think we'd be given a good reason why they were sold.

Jeroen, what is an example over the last seven years, since he arrived there, of LeBron running the show there in LA?

So, okay, so okay, Bronny's the best example, but I will say, and we can get to that. One of the more interesting things that kind of I learned was that the idea of the clutch Lakers, it's overblown, right? And like the most obvious example is the. And this is public with the Ty Lue coaching search in 2019. LeBron wanted the Lakers to hire Ty Lue as their co. As. As their coach. Ty Lue was a perfect candidate for them. He was a great coach, former Laker, that matters to them. Had a good relationship with LeBron. And this goes back to the Bus family stuff. They said no. Then, you know, they offered him, or I shouldn't say they said no. They offered him a three year contract that was well below market value that he refused to take. But if, you know, again with the lawyers, you have to be very clear. They didn't say no. They just offered him a deal that they believe he should have accepted. So that's a great example to me of. And that was LeBron's year two. Like, that wasn't after the Westbrook trade. That wasn't after the issues.

That was LeBron's there year two. They say, yeah, we're not going to hire a coach. So, you know, Bronnie's a good example. There are other points to me, like, they were able to leverage his power during the AD negotiations. So the Rob Polinka messed up the salary cap and he basically. They messed up the sequencing. They had to convince AD to wave his trade kicker is the short of it. And in order to do that, Clutch then said, you know what, we're going to negotiate with you. If you waive our. If we're going to waive the trade kicker, we want to guarantee that you sign Kentavius Caldwell Pope. So that's not to say LeBron, you know, forcing them to do things. That's more leveraging the power that they had.

Were you able to learn anything about LeBron's presence or lack of presence at the Kobe Bryant Memorial at the arena?

So I got to give Pablo. I was not. Pablo nailed it down. I could not. It was one of these things where we all assumed and we all kind of knew. And I actually was at a point where, like, I was just going to kind of leave it ambiguous. Pablo nailed it. I was not able to. So no more than what Pablo said.

So you mentioned the response to the book from the lake. What about from LeBron's camp, which can be very protective. What kind of cooperation or lack of did you get from LeBron?

No cooperation, but I would say a less aggressive lack of cooperation, if that makes sense. Right. I think they're just at the point where, like, they don't. I mean, LeBron doesn't really do long form interviews of any kind anymore. And I have no issue with that. Like, I got power to him. Why he's got cameras following him around. I assume Netflix has 15 documentaries in the can already, right, for what he's doing? So, yeah, no cooperation. And I think their thing is, like, they don't want to even do fact checking because it's just then I can say cooperate when I get asked this question. So it's just, yeah, we're out. All good.

What do you have for us in terms of what LeBron actually knew about Anthony Davis and the LUCA trade? What's true there, what's real there? According to, you know, you'll talk to, as we said, almost 300 people.

LeBron didn't know. I know no one believes that. I know one's got conspiracy theories. I mean, I have, like, in the book, we have the the group chat, basically. So Luca, the Luca, that trade happens a Saturday night. And the background here, by the way. So I live in New York at that game. The Lakers were at MSG that night, the night that Luca was traded. And other reports will tell you this too, like in the hallways, Rich, Paul, Savannah, James, this always happens for the Knicks games in New York. They're all hanging around in the hallway there, getting ready for dinner plans. Like, it is very clearly not a group who is aware that this seismic deal about to go down. But anyway, they all go out for dinner in their separate ways. And Sham sends that tweet that we all remember. And Bronnie shares it in the group chat and goes, is this real? And the players only chat and asks, is this real? And AD goes, did these blank words just trade me? And LeBron puts a WTF in there. I think LeBron said he was at dinner and AD basically says, good luck, fellas, and leaves the chat.

So I don't think LeBron had any idea that, that this was going to happen. And honestly, for the Lakers perspective at that point, like, it's kind of, if you're getting Luca, you no longer are. Like, you don't have to worry about that. You've already moved on, right? And even at the press conference the next day, I found. Or whenever they officially did it, I found it so interesting. Rob Polinka shouting out Luca's agent, Bill Duffy and management. It was just like it was a complete. We've moved on to a whole new group here.

Well, if he doesn't know and no one believes that, then he's probably actually hurt by all of that. No?

I would guess so. The only thing is though, like, and he said it a few days later, he said if he was really upset, he could have waived his no trade clause. And I forget his exact quote and gone out of there. Like, I think Luka is. There's two parts to it, right? I think in terms of the basketball, I think Luka is one of these guys that other players respect. And LeBron has this real appreciation for. Remember LeBron when he was thinking about building out that his own line of the shoe, of the shoe company, like, Luka was someone he targeted. So I think understanding that, like, you know, Luka is better than A.D. everyone knew that. I do think though, that. And we're seeing him deal with this, the idea of no longer have having the power, control, I think that's something. And we're seeing him sort of deal with that now. Like with his picks up the contract and the weird statement about I want to join a team's winning. But then he's pretending. He's saying he's all happy and just sort of the wavering we're seeing is I think that would be sort of all connected to the losing control there.

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Don LeBatard, Quiet Man.

Yes. You know, I'm a married man. I don't cheat on my wife. Despite that gratuitous line in back in my stugats, I wish you were here. My wife, I really miss her. No, I don't. That's the thing about being married, you know, you're not allowed to say, I don't miss my wife. I've been gone two days. I haven't been gone long enough to miss my wife. I'm sorry, I call her. I'm on 30 seconds. You know, what am I. Hello?

All right.

All right, we'll see you. All right. And then, you know, I'm gonna see her in two days. How's jumping Charlie? Good.

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugach. Where is the relationship now between Lebron and the Lakers? Yes, I would say, I don't think so. Backing up. I think one interesting thing from the beginning is that when he first came, I think Jeannie Buss thought this was going to be like her version of Jerry Buss and Magic, right? And even she had the relationship with Kobe. And it was never that, even in the beginning. Just Lebron was cut differently. Just didn't work. And again, the Westbrook trade really broke things. So we can talk about that if we want after where it's right now. I mean, I think you saw during the media day or if a Rob Polinka was asked about, like, what would you, would you get. Forget the exact phrasing. Would you give LeBron another contract? And his answer was along the lines of, you know, I think he said we'd love to see Lebron finish his story here. Which is really a non answer. And I keep joking like parentheses. And we hope that story ends now, right after this year. Like it's just a non answer. So I think that kind of summarized it like it's the Lakers, they're fine.

But this is not like they are no longer deferring to him. It's very clear. And the jj, like all these hires were part of that too. Like everyone forgets before the LUCA trade, they were really signaling this idea that we are changing our ways. Like if you listen to the JJ Redick press conference, it's fascinating to go back to they're talking about player development, the need of changing your ways. In the second apron, they were talking about, like they were going to make some player development app, which, I don't know, we should look into if they ever did that. Like, this was a whole different ethos that the Lakers were preaching. Then Luka falls into their lap and things change. But I think they were sort of on their way to moving on from LeBron.

What did you learn about the relationship with him, the team, Bronnie, last year that we didn't know.

Ronnie, I mean, I don't know if it's not. She didn't know. It's. It's. To me, it's been interesting that Bronnie sort of.

It's.

He's faded into the background. And I think that's a testament to. Everyone likes Bronnie. Like, it's really. It sounds simple, but Bronnie by all accounts is a really good kid and works hard and just kind of understands his place and is not anyone's face. And it's again, it's nothing you didn't know. But I think it's just like he's just another one of the players. I mean, you see it now, even this kind of feels like just another 10th man, which is weird considering. Considering, or I should say 12th man, or maybe 13th. But it was. It's weird considering where we were at before the draft last year.

You also said, though, that Palenque, when you say Palenque gave a non answer. Palenka also did say LeBron deserves the ending that he wants. He did say that. And I know the Kraft said that with Tom Brady as well. Maybe it's just a thing you have to say, but this has been frayed for how long? You said Westbrook broke things. He wanted Kyrie Irving too, right? LeBron wanted Kyrie Irving.

Yeah, LeBron wanted Kyrie Irving. And that was the background to, like the, you know, in that Will Smith story with Westbrook getting angry at LeBron. The idea being LeBron going everywhere saying, I want Kyrie Irving. And for salary cap, like, the only way that could have worked through a salary cap was by giving up Westbrook. So everyone understood that. Yeah. After the Westbrook trade, like, basically became everyone blame each other, right? Everyone blame each other. This was his fault. This was his fault. They did it. It was their idea. And all the. I mean, you see, like all the passive aggressive tweets would pick up after that. In terms of Polinka, you were asking like, yeah, he said that Polinka also has A reputation for how you phrase this. You know, the things he says are not always carried through. How about that? Right? So there's a reputation there.

How do you phrase this? Okay, so the Polinka's words don't matter is what you're saying. That's a good way to do that.

Okay.

All right. No, yeah. Well, Polanco. Polanca said something, and it doesn't matter what Palenque says because the words don't mean anything. Can you give us your top five biggest revelations or holy ship moments from the book without ruin? The name of the book again. A Hollywood ending. The dreams and drama of the LeBron Lakers. Number five, please.

No allies. All right. I'm disappointed. Okay.

Okay. Yeah, no, you decide that. You get to decide. You get to decide that. Would you like some Olis outside?

Sure.

We can do.

Yeah, we can do a couple, if that's okay with you.

Yes, please. Yeah.

So, okay, we got one. Oli is that. When Anthony Davis first arrived in la, the coaching staff was so concerned about his willingness to play through pain that staffers were informed to keep drills light during warm ups out of fear he'd get nicked up and then take off time.

Look at that. What a league says likes that one. Zaz likes this list.

If that's. I already.

I do like it.

I like it a lot.

If that's an Oli, look at the smile. Zaz is. Is radiant over here. Okay. Another Oli.

Yeah. So if you remember, Jeannie took the team from her brother Jim. Right. People might remember there's all this infighting. The. The brothers tried orchestrating this boardroom coup. One of the reasons Genie was able. Successful there is that her lawyer discovered that Jim owed lots of money to lots of people, including loan sharks, and they threatened to make this public if he decided whatever they wanted.

Those are Olis. Those are good Olis. Look at Zazlow Zazzle looking post coital over here.

I love good NBA controversy. It's good.

Another Oli, or where you at the end?

This is what's a quick Oli, but I have to throw us in here. Not a single Lakers beat writer for a Main street outlet has acknowledged in public that this book exists. We can move on to number five after.

Why is that?

What.

What's happening here? I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't. That's for you guys to connect the dots. I just figured I'd share that, you know?

Okay.

Now, Dan, this is number five. This is gonna Help an old take of yours age pretty well, I think. Okay, so. And this was a once controversial take, but when Magic was the team president. I'm gonna read this. The sounds of daytime TV shows like Judge Mathis, the Andy Griffith Show, Spin Off Mayberry, RFD and everyone's favorite Family Feud were often heard coming from inside his office during the day.

He didn't work very hard.

He did not.

That's okay. We talked about Rob Polinka. So his reputation. So when Luke Walton was the head coach, he became so untrustworthy of Polinka, thinking that they would agree to things. And then Polinka would say something else in another meeting that anytime he met with Polinka, he would insist that a third person would come, make sure that there was basically a witness that someone told me as a member of the coaching staff. Quote, he kept feeling like he and Rob would discuss something and agree, and then Rob would go off in a completely different direction. We're gonna. I'm gonna add two more quickly on Palinka here. Once he misquoted the Bible, he likes to think of himself as a Bible quoter. He would say, you know, this hits my. If you see my name, you'll know my background. But he talks about mana coming down from heaven. He quotes it from the book of Genesis. Except there is no manna in the book of Genesis. There's about three or four other books, but not in that one. And Frank Vogel found out he was fired via a WOJ tweet after a game. They were sitting that final.

That final game where he gets fired. He's sitting around, he looks at his phone and goes, well, we'll just tweeted that I don't have a bleeping job anymore. So that's all Rob Polinka. Number three, the Lakers party habits. Okay, so when Lakers players will go out to clubs. Rajon Rondo would bring his iPad and watch film in a booth out there. Connected LeBron when he would run a party. Guests were required to sign NDAs. Also connected Jared Dudley, who sort of would organize the parties, was known for being able to get hundreds of women to show up. And one player short. Daniels told me a story that he went to out once with Kyle Kuzma. They go out for a bunch little dicky. Other famous people there. Wakes up the next morning into a text from Kuzma saying, welcome to KU's world. Okay, there's that. And then. So I had number two was the. We'll skip number two because we had the group chats. We'll go straight to number one. During the AD negotiations, the original AD negotiations in 2019, the Pelicans front office at one point was under the impression that Rob Pelinka did not know what pick swaps were.

That's really good. It's in the name.

Yeah, it is in the name. So be. And then maybe. Because again, serious journalists. Let me make clear. So I have the Lakers statement, you know, response to this quote to make it appear that Jeannie or Rob does understand. Sorry. Because it was about Rob explaining the genie. I'll give the background here. Basically, Rob would say the David Griffin in negotiations, Jeannie Buss doesn't know what pick swaps are. And David Griffin said, why don't you explain it to her? And he said, well, how would you explain it to her? So this story was then relayed to the Pelicans front office. They took it as Rob Plinka saying, you know, my friend doesn't know how to do this. So this story is shared.

I get it.

Explain it to Roy.

That's amazing.

So this story is then, you know, in the fact checking process. This was the Lakers response. Quote, to make it appear that Jeannie does not understand basketball and that she needs mansplaining to inform her about pick swaps is false and outrageous. And any assertion that Pelinka did not understand pick swaps sufficiently to explain the genie buss is, quote, outrageous and quote, falsely portrays Palinka as unknowledge about NBA contracts, something that no one has ever claimed about him. And it's utterly ridiculous to suggest about one of history's most successful basketball agents. End quote. There you go.

The name of the book is a Hollywood ending. The dreams and drama of the LeBron Lakers. None of the Laker Beat writers are acknowledging that it has been written. None of the Laker Beat writers are using any of the information that is in the book. A book that he was threatened. You know, he was sweat. He was threatened with defamation for. Thank you. Your own appearance. Appreciate the time and the work. Thank you, sir.

Thanks, guys. Really appreciate this.

Actually, before you leave, I should ask though, can you tell me something about how long you were bringing cheese doodles to Stephen A. Smith and what are the details that are important to know there?

I will say. So this was around 20. This is like when Steve and I. I live in New York. This is ESPN Radio. This is when his. The beginning of the comeback, right? He was kind of making his way back to espn. So he was hosting a radio show there. And anyone who's interned for Radio knows that job means often going to get snacks for the host. So Diet Coke for Michael K. But Stephen A. Cheese doodles. And the problem. I quickly learned it was every show, but I quickly learned that cheese doodles are not one of those chips that are, like, regularly available at every bodega. You have to go actually searching for cheese doodles. So I would go. ESPN radio is above Penn Station. I would go into Penn Station and go searching for cheese doodles. And also, it wasn't on purpose, but Stephen A. He often. I think he would often underestimate the cost of some of the food he would ask us to get him sometimes. And so, yeah, maybe came up short there. So that was about six months of work. That's how I made it to this part.

Did he like the crunchy cheese doodles or the original, puffy, softer cheese doodles?

Great question.

I gotta be honest with you. Like, I don't. Again, cheese doodles harder snack to find than you think. In, like, the moments, I would just be grabbing whatever I could possibly get.

Either or put it on the poll. Are cheese doodles harder to get than you think? And are you allowed to do Cheetos there?

Or.

They have to be cheese doodles. It's not something that's ancillary.

You know what?

I wasn't gonna. It's as early in my career I was gonna risk it. I was just gonna go pure cheese doodles.

Thank you. I appreciate all the answers. Also, I wish I had interns like that. I don't believe there's been anyone around here who's ever brought me snacks.

You do. I've gotten you chicken wings.

Chicken wings.

I used to get you Pollo chicken wings.

Coffee. Get out of town coffee. What kind of revision.

Remember those little chicken wings Pollo had?

I used to.

When I was sitting in the corner, I would go get, like, 20 of them.

What the hell are you talking about? Did you get 790?

What?

I don't remember being brought to me. I don't remember that.

Turn his mic off.

I wasn't even here, and I know that happened.

Jerome, thank you for being on with us.

Thank you, guys. Really appreciate this.

Mike Ryan here. Want to talk to you about the official ticketing partner of the Dan LeBatard Show. Game time. That's right. The Game Time app gives the advantage back to fans. It's a hack for unlocking amazing tickets, and it experiences in just a few taps. It's incredibly easy to use. I use it often. And the game time guarantee means that you can Trust you'll get 100% authentic tickets on time and at the best price. Plus, fees are always included, so what you see is what you pay. They're not tricking you, folks. Zone deals Favorites panoramic seat views. The low price guarantee their unparalleled ticket coverage, which means your purchase is covered with the most flexible customer service policy in the ticketing industry. I can go on and on. Take the guesswork out of buying NFL tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account and use code DAN for $20 off your first purchase Terms apply again. Create an account and redeem code Dan for $20 off. Swipe, tap Ticket. Go download the Gametime app today.

Don LeBatard Surely every time you're watching this, you recognize that your wife is laughing, that she married. She married Larry David.

I. I do. Yeah. One of the great characters in the history of television, in my humble opinion. And. And to my credit, my personality.

In my humble opinion, followed by to my credit, to my credit, amazing.

My personality, just amazing. Predate. Curb your enthusiasm.

Stugats.

Oh, wow.

I'm not gonna say Larry David.

Okay.

Patterned himself.

You copy. All right, put it on the poll, please. Juju did Greg Cody copyright being an asshole long before Larry David.

This is the Dan Lev with the Stugach. I miss those chicken wings. Honestly.

Those are good. They canceled them at Pollo Tropical. I don't know why they. I don't know why they canceled them.

And then they brought wings back for a little bit, but they were too big. They're not the same little ones as they used to.

Back to you, Dan Kent. Thank you. Kendrick Perkins says any number of asinine things, but what's been happening with him lately? Ja Morant has pointed this out and saying, I don't bleep with Kendrick Perkins anymore, but Kendrick Perkins says that John Moran should thank him personally. Kendrick Perkins, for bringing ESPN's attention to John Morant. That Kendrick Perkins is tough love. No, no, no, no. Not tough love. No, no, no. He is saying that ESPN recognizes John Moran because of Kendrick Perkins. That Kendrick Perkins and ESPN went to Memphis to cover John Moran. He did this on a podcast with Zach Randolph and Tony Allen. He. He evidently. Kendrick Perkins.

What was that podcast called? Just by curiosity, Please.

I don't know. The. I just saw the video of the two of them.

House is something. Give me something.

I don't know the name of the podcast.

I'll find it out.

Thank you, though, for looking that up. The. The absurdity of the claim, though, is that ESPN Wouldn't have covered out the.

Mud.

That you would have absolutely gotten me with that fake podcast if you had said out the mud with Tony Allen and Zach Randolph. The claim, though, by Kendrick Perkins. Do any of you object to. To the idea of Kendrick Perkins being on television only because he says things like that? No.

He's become like, I think he's more famous for his television career at this point. Most people know him from just saying stuff on tv, and I like it.

He says funny stuff.

He says funny stuff.

We requested him.

ESPN's NBA coverage is interesting. And I think now that you have more things to compare it to, you try to figure out where ESPN is.

ESPN's got the best studio show of all time.

Well, no, I understand that, but the rest of their coverage, and I mean historically, too, Kendrick Perkins was like, at least one of the more consistent parts of that.

Kendrick Perkins told El Duncan on television the other day, why would you need an aspirin when you could have a perk?

Wow, man. And then he, like, did, like a mic drop. Lean back.

He's.

You gotta have a Kendrick Perkins.

You know, as long as it's not Tylenol.

Every network needs one.

Guys, is LeBron a top five athlete even in Los Angeles right now?

Is he a top five Laker?

Well, I mean, like, I'm talking about actively, so.

Shohei Ohtani.

Well, here we go. I put together a list.

Well, wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

You said.

Yeah, Jeremy, top five Laker of all time, you're going to go Kareem.

I'm sorry, I thought you meant actively right now, because I knew Mike was going Los Angeles generally right now. I. All time. You're right. I'm not sure he is a top five. Right, because obviously Kobe, Kareem. I mean, there's. There's several other guys. Yeah.

Noted underachiever shaq.

I think LeBron might make it as number five on the list of top five Lakers of all time. But what is your top five list of Los Angeles athletes?

Current.

Current. Like, how good they are right now. I understand in terms of fame, only Ohtani could probably argue that on a global scale. But I mean, actively. Good. Right now, as we know, LeBron is presently out with sciatica. So this was an interesting list to put together.

See how he sits on the bench, by the way, looking like a gargoyle.

Oli. Kelsey plumb.

Hold on, though, Mike. I need to understand the list, because LeBron James, statistically, last year was still one of the 10 best players in the NBA.

Statistically and statistically, Kelsey Plum is among the league leaders in scoring.

And that's why I'm not objecting to Plum. I'm objecting to the idea that you're saying that LeBron isn't one of the best athletes in Los Angeles right now when he was still a top 10 player last year.

You're objecting to the Oli. We don't even know where this movie's going, pal.

The horse before the cart.

Yeah, baby cart before the baby cart.

Oli. Adrian Kempe, top 10 in the league in points in the NHL. He did the Horns down celebration. Even though that wasn't Austin. It was Dallas, but whatever, still Texas. Now, this was the toughest debate that I had. Justin Herbert. Oli.

Nah, you don't even mean that.

Yeah, he's never won anything.

You don't even mean that yourself.

This was the single toughest decision because this is the final Oli. Before we crack Our top five.

Matthew Stafford.

Those guys aren't even the top five.

No, no. Number five. LeBron James. Number four. Is everybody okay with this? Damn.

Well, I did. I misunderstood because I thought you were saying all of these people were better than LeBron James.

No. Only now, henceforth, the names that you're hearing right now are better at their sport.

You asked is even top five. But you're, you know, the answers. Your question.

Yes, that's right. Well, I was to do this thought exercise. He's number five. Number four. I'm gonna piss you guys off with this one, but it's accurate. Dennis Bonaga, LAFC, a tremendous player.

Second and third word for it.

Top three player in the league. Is LeBron a top three player in his league?

No, I mean, he's. Yeah, He's. He's top 10.

Golden boots.

That's not three.

That's not three. That'S not three. He's not as good as Dennis Bonaga is at soccer right now.

Probably around six, seven.

All right, so the joke's officially dead.

All right, number three. This one was tough because you can make an argument he's not the most talented player or best player on his own team, but Dan says you only need to have his hands open. It's Puka Nukua. All right, number two is Luka. And number one is the guy that's toeing the slab today for the Dodgers, Shohei. Oh, Itami.

I'm willing to actually entertain the idea that Jeremy threw at us earlier in the show.

Six.

Seven's dead. Well, yes, that I agree with the moment that Zaz makes the joke, it's over. And moves his hands back and forth. I don't think I thought it was done long before Zaz did that, but now it is dead.

Nail in the coffin.

Now the coffin has been set on fire and the skin has melted and the remains are ash and there's nothing left.

It's not my fault.

I know the cool trends.

The, the thing though, that Jeremy said that I don't, I don't think, Cody, you have more experience than any of us here at covering sports. It's going to be hard to form an argument on behalf of anyone else when he says Shohei Ohtani is the best athlete ever when he can do two things that are really hard to do better than most people. He's not the pitcher that he is as a hitter, but when I see in postseason baseball somebody doing these particular things like getting on base nine times or hitting as many home runs, that used to be the rarefied air of only Reggie Jackson three home runs in a game. But in a playoff game and in a playoff clincher before getting to the World Series, he hits three home runs, one of them out of the stadium, and is also throwing 100 miles an hour and striking out 10 people. Who else do you put in the conversation? I put Deion Sanders in that conversation, but because he was playing two different sports and doing two different, two very different things, but he wasn't the power hitter that Shohei is not.

Not a long enough run. But peak Bo Jackson.

You'D have to grab an athlete who can do two different things at the top of the, at the top of the food chain. But these two things that we're talking about, he's the best hitter on a team that has Freddie Freeman, a guy who's now hit multiple walk off home runs, a team that has Mookie Betts, he's the best. And as a pitcher, I think you.

Almost under, you're almost underselling his pitching. I think if he dedicated just to pitching, he could be an ace.

No, he, he is. He, he is an ace. I, I can assemble an argument that he's better than Tyler Glass now, but this team, he's not the best pitcher on this team. But just the fact that he's pitching as well puts him in the. I, I. You've heard me say before, okay, that if hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in sports, I think a close second is being a cornerback trying to guard wide receivers. When the wide receiver knows where he's going and when the Quarterback knows where he's going and the precision of those things. And Deion Sanders was able to do both things, cornerback and hit a baseball. But he wasn't nearly the baseball player that Shohei Ohtani is.

And even to that extent, Right. If you want to say, okay, take the cornerback skills, take the hitting skills, make them comparable. They were both elite. Shohei is a far better pitcher than Deion was as a baseball player in general. We got to remember, in 2022, Shohei hit 34 home runs. He also finished fourth in Cy Young voting individually as a pitcher. If he was just a pitcher, he would be one of the best pitchers in Major League Baseball on his own and probably be on a trajectory for a Hall of Fame career with that on its own. He won three out of four MVPs. He's probably going to win another MVP this year. That's four out of five. And he came in second the other year while he finished fourth in Cy Young.

Vote.

You look ridiculous.

I'd like to see a hockey player who's a skater and a goalie or.

Both, or a hockey player who's great at hockey and an Olympic figure skater. That's what I want to see out of hockey.

It's like if Tom Brady was also Myles Garrett.

But here's the thing.

Gustav Forsling could be.

No, I want to hear more about what? Greg.

No, no, because that's the same. It's a similar skill set, Right? It starts with skating. You strap on a pair of skates, okay, you're great. You're. You're Connor McDavid. Yeah, but then what are you doing?

Pitching and hitting are totally different. And when Mike says Bo Jackson. Bo Jackson was not nearly the player that. That Ohtani is in baseball.

Greg, you're talking about the movie the.

Cutting edge with D.B.

Sweeney.

There you go. I thought I invented that.

I got one that we're probably overlooking unfairly, because you'll think of him as an entertainer first. But keep in mind what he did as an amateur wrestler, the fact that he tried his hand at the NFL and was a UFC world heavyweight champion. Brock Lesnar.

Oh, the beast.

Okay, you know what? If you. You look at Olympic decathletes, okay, if you win the Olympic decathlon and you're considered the greatest ever at decathlon, you probably have an argument that you're the greatest athlete ever. But when we talk about Ohtani, I think it's also fair to say that Babe Ruth, in his time, did everything and did it as well as Ohtani did. What impresses me about Ohtani is that since then, when you look at all the great athletes and we mentioned Deion Sanders and Bo Jackson and remember Michael Jackson even tried baseball. They're never as good.

Michael Jordan, Michael Jackson.

Michael Jackson had been a major league baseball player.

That would have been great.

Now we're talking diversity of skills.

A lanky center fielder. You saw him play basketball.

He had been doing the moonwalk to first base backward. That's how quick he was. I wish Michael Jackson had played baseball. But the point is, these guys, the greatest athletes, when they try a second sport, they're not nearly as good, and that includes Deion Sanders. So Ohtani doing what he's doing. Best since Babe Ruth. That's all I'll say. Best ever. I want to see the best decathlete ever and have.

This is a new and unimproved Dan Levitar show with the stugats Gamble on by DraftKings. Gustav Forsling.

Yeah, Gustav Forsling. And. And he dominated a couple of guys on the Panthers.

He said, boquist, Yeah. I was like, I feel like everyone says you're our best skater. I feel like you could do it. He's like, boquist could do it.

Brock Lesnar.

He ended the streak. Oh, the football season. Cruel beast. Sometimes it gives, sometimes it rips away. Sometimes you got good times, sometimes you got bad times. But one thing that'll always lift your spirit is making it Miller Time. Because game day just hits different with Miller Lite in your hand. 50 years of great taste, simple ingredients, and that iconic golden color that you can spot from across the room. It's a real eye catcher, folks. And here's the kicker. Just 96 calories, 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. The original light beer since 1975 and still hitting different five decades later. So whatever your game day looks like, remember, Miller time is always a good time. Miller Lite great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.