Transcript of The Firing of Kristi Noem New

From the New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. On Thursday afternoon, President Trump fired his Secretary of Homeland Security, Christie Noe, ousting the leader of an agency at the center of his second term agenda. Today, my colleague, Hamed Ali-Aziz, on well known who did everything possible to ingratiate herself with Trump, ended up losing his trust. It's Friday, March sixth. Ahmed, good evening.

Good evening.

I just want to be candid. This was not our plan for Friday's episode of The Daily, but it is a size economic development for this administration, and we felt we had to cover it.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, Christie Noe was the face of President Trump's aggressive crackdown on immigrants across the United States. She was unapologetic, and President Trump backed her over and over again after all the controversies she faced over the last six months. Then really abrupt, President Trump notifies her just But moments before she gives a speech to folks on law enforcement, she's fired.

Right. The other reason why this felt so enormous is that the entire premise of the second term Trump cabinet was that it was unfireable in theory. In Trump's first term, he fired people left and right because he had picked in his mind all the wrong people. But the second term was this huge corrective, and he was only going to pick ideologically aligned cabinet members who were not going to push back, who were going to do exactly what he wanted, and he wouldn't fire people even if they got into pretty serious trouble. That was really the case until Nome, who becomes the very first cabinet secretary to be fired in the second term.

Yeah. I mean, it became pretty clear that Trump was trying to give off this appearance of stability and the fact that they had everything under control. Christie Noem really was among the most loyal of his cabinet secretaries. I mean, she really put President Trump at the center of whatever she did. She was always talking about President Trump and fulfilling President Trump's promises. And ultimately, it felt like that almost made her somewhat invincible to a firing.

Right. Until now. So let's tell the story of how she became no longer invincible despite doing what seemed month after month like exactly what it was Trump wanted her to do and celebrating Trump the whole way.

It was surprising that President Trump selected her. The DHS Secretary role really is perhaps the biggest role for his biggest promise, the promise of mass deportations. You need somebody in place to carry through a really ambitious and difficult operation. The selection of Christie Nome was a surprise because on the national level, she was primarily known for writing a memoir in which she admitted to shooting her own dog that she felt like was misbehaving. Of course, she was the governor of South Dakota. She'd been a congresswoman as well. But President Trump, he decides that she is the right person to run this massive agency and in many ways takes her from political irrelevance to the biggest story of 2025.

First of all, I want to thank El Salvador and their President for their partnership with the United States of America.

Right away, she embraces this idea of being out there.

Here at Seacot today and visiting this facility.

Going to El Salvador, where where she's filming a spot in front of shirtless prisoners.

First of all, do not come to our country illegally. You will be removed and you will be prosecuted.

Saying to undocumented immigrants that you could end up here if we catch you.

But know that this facility is one of the tools in our toolkit that we will use if you commit crimes against the American people.

We should say she's standing in front of a prison that we've reported on where people, including those who were in the United States, claimed to have been tortured and sexually abused.

Yeah, exactly. This comes right at that time last spring, as the Trump administration is really unleashing DHS on immigrant communities across this country. There's Christie Nome.

You're in New York City this morning. We are getting the dirt bags off these streets.

She's standing alongside these ICE officers, and she's got the tactical ICE vest on. She's at times holding weaponry.

You're going to go. You're going to go home, and you're going to get prosecuted.

She is not a law enforcement officer. Going inside to the homes where people are being arrested as if she's part of the operation.

Do you know why we're here today?

.

She wants it to be known that she is at the tip of the spear of these enforcement action. She's on the front line. She is becoming, it seems like quite proudly, synonymous with them.

Yeah, it felt like she wanted to be at the center of this story. She wanted to be on Fox News, on these conservative news outlets day after day, spreading this message that I'm the one that's going to carry through President Trump's biggest promise. But really, her effort to put herself at the center of the Trump administration's deportation campaign put her down a path that ultimately haunted her. Really, the thing that you can point to is that she stars in these ads.

I'm Christie Noe. From the Cowboys Who Tamed the West to the Titans Who Built Our Cities.

In which she She's riding on horseback. She's wearing a cowboy hat.

America has always rewarded vision and grit. Our greatness calls people to us for a chance to prosper.

She's almost giving a speech about the greatness of America.

Anyone who searches for freedom can always find a home here. But that freedom is a precious thing, and we defend it vigorously.

And then warning individuals who are in the country illegally You cross the border illegally, we'll find you. That DHS will come and find them.

But if you come here the right way, your American dream can be as big as these endless skies. From President Trump and me, welcome home.

It's not just that ad.

If you are here illegally, you're next.

There are other ads as well.

President Trump has a clear message for those that are in our country illegally. Leave now, leave now.

Where she's encouraging immigrants to to self-deport.

The choice is yours. America welcomes those who respect our laws because a strong nation is a safe nation.

In these ads, which are playing on TV, they're everywhere. Propublic late last year reports that they cost the American taxpayer $200 million. I think that really started to concern some lawmakers and some folks that perhaps this whole effort of her being DHS Secretary was really just to further her own political ambitions.

Of course, as that's happening, the enforcement actions of the agents she's overseeing at the Department of Homeland Security become themselves deeply polarizing. How does that start to factor into what will come to haunt her?

Yeah, you see over the last half year, DHS agents chasing people in Home Depot parking lots, in car washes, allegations of racial profiling, US citizens swept up, and even all throughout this bad imagery that even some of the President Trump's supporters, including Joe Rogan, call out repeatedly. Trump stands by her. Then you get to Minneapolis. Minneapolis really is where things start to fall apart for her. There's the shooting of Alex Bretti, in which agents tackle him to the ground and then shoot him.

Good evening, everyone. Thank you for being here. There are two different things that- Christie Noem, hours after the shooting. I do want to address the tragic situation that we saw in Minneapolis today that unfolded on the streets.

She goes further than even the agency had in their own statement, which had raised some questions.

This individual who came with weapons and ammunition to stop a law enforcement operation of federal law enforcement officers committed an act of domestic terrorism. That's the facts.

She starts saying that he's a domestic terrorist. He attacked the officers at the scene.

Says things that turned out not to be true.

Exactly. In many ways, people question her credibility at this really key juncture where Minneapolis is teetering, where two American citizens at this point have been shot dead. Protests are raging. There are hundreds of DHS agents on the streets of Minneapolis. It's a critical moment, and Nome is just not able to handle it without saying something that is pretty clearly inaccurate at that time. President Trump doesn't fire her. He doesn't get rid of her. But it is an acknowledgement that she did not handle it well when he brings in Tom Homan, his border are, to take over Minneapolis and tells them to calm the situation down. That is something that never happens, where a DHS secretary, the person in charge of these immigration operations, is put to the side for a White House official and told, You don't need to take care of this anymore.

Right. She's getting layered, which when you're a cabinet secretary, there really shouldn't be any layers between you and the president. Then things get worse for Secretary Noem, courtesy, as I recall it, of our colleagues at the Wall Street Journal.

Yeah, really just as Tom Homan is starting to quiet the situation down in Minneapolis, this story lands from the journal, which gets into some of the sorted details of Christie Noem and her relationship to Senior Advisor, Cory Lewandowski, a former Trump campaign official, a controversial figure in his own right. Lewandowski is a special government employee, and he's this shadowy figure who is everywhere with Christine Ohm. He is the person who is yelling at ICE officials for not doing enough on arrests and deportations. He is really, in many ways, this incredibly powerful figure across DHS, in particular at ICE. And ultimately, again, he is not a DHS employee. He is a special government employee, just like Elon Musk was when he started Doge last year.

He really, in theory, should not have the authority that this journal reporting suggests that he has inside the Department of Homeland Security.

Yeah, exactly. He's essentially running this agency alongside Nome. Having unlimited power to do whatever they wanted to do, firing pilots, issuing polygraphs. The idea of polygraphing people left and right really concerned a lot of people who are working pretty hard to carry through on this really difficult task of deportations and arrests. So this story really got the heart of the drama and the situation at the top of the agency. I think crucially, also really heavily insinuated that Lewandowski and Noem, both of whom are married, were having an affair, which obviously has some major complications, given the fact that they were essentially running the agency together.

And yet, despite this journal reporting, Trump does not act.

He doesn't. But Noem ultimately has to go to Capitol Hill for a pair of hearings in which Congressional officials bring up all of these allegations, all of these exploits, and her response, her reaction, and how she handled that situation, it was a disaster and really steal their fate.

We'll be right back.

Obviously, there's a lot of interest in this hearing. I thank the secretary for coming.

So, Hamed, tell us about this disastrous testimony that Christie Noem delivers before Congress that does become her undoing.

Yeah, it feels like the culmination of everything that's happened over this past year, where all of her potential embarrassments come to Capitol Hill. Secretary, no, we're glad to meet you, even though it's been 13 months since you took office in more than five weeks since two American citizens were shot dead in Minneapolis. Democrats are incredibly aggressive. Can you explain why you decided to brand these victims who are outprotesting the activities of your agency and were killed as a result of it? How did you think that calling them domestic terrorists was somehow going to calm the situation? Bringing up all of her previous comments in Minneapolis.

That we continue to deliver information. Is it so hard to say you were wrong?

Is it so hard to say you were wrong? And even beyond that, they get quite personal. There are some pretty notable exchanges with Congresswoman Kammerger Dove.

So, Secretary Noem, at any time during your tenure as Director of Department of Homeland Security, have you had sexual relations with Cori Loewendowski?

Who really directly asks her about her relationship with Loewendowski.

Mr. Chairman, I am shocked that we're going down and peddling tabloid garbage in this committee today.

And she doesn't- One thing that I really answer the question.

What I would say to you is that what we do at the Department of Homeless. Clearly, every single day, every single day is to protect this country. If someone is asked if you or any federal official is sleeping with their subordinate, that should be the easiest. You should be wanting to answer that question. It's garbage.

Because it is not about your- But the real surprise with these hearings was that Republicans like Tom Tillis, like Senator Kennedy Louisiana. They're starting to point some really intense questioning of Christie now. I don't know that we'll have time for you to respond because I'm giving you a performance evaluation here. I'm not looking for a response. He is incredibly frustrated and angry. What we've seen is innocent people getting detained that turn out are American citizens. He feels unencumbered. We just want numbers. We want a thousand a day, 6,000 a day, 9,000 a because numbers matter, right?

No, they don't matter.

Quality matters, not quantity, quality. He's almost getting off this really intense disappointment of her tenure at the Department of Homeland Security. What we've seen is a disaster. Under your leadership, Ms. Noem, a disaster.

Right, even disgust.

Yeah, he is just pissed off.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And then- Thank you, Madam Secretary, for being here. Here comes Kennedy, somebody who is a staunch supporter of the Trump administration.

Properly vetting people at the Southern border is not racist, is it?

No.

Somebody who you would expect easier questions to come from.

Could you answer for the record?

No, it is not racist.

But right as he starts going- I believe you have a policy, Madam Secretary, that you have to approve all contracts your department. He is really getting into detailed questions about what was happening at her department.

How do you square that concern for waste, which I share? With the fact that you have spent $220 million running television advertisements that feature you prominently.

He is questioning her about this ad campaign and all the money that's spent there.

We went through the legal processes. Did it correct? Did the President know you were going to do this? Yes.

He did? Yes. Okay.

And pushing her on Whether or not the President was approving this type of massive expenditure.

To me, it puts the President in a terribly awkward spot. I'm not saying you're not telling the truth. It's just hard for me to believe knowing the President, that he would have agreed to that.

Again, this is a moment where Nome, somewhat like Minneapolis, starts to dig her own grave by saying, Yes, the President did approve this.

One thing, Senator, I think would be helpful to know is how effective that communications has been. They were effective in your name recognition.

I mean, I don't think- Ultimately, his line of questioning is really quite effective because President Trump gets wind of her comment and is asked on the record by Reuters whether or not he did, in fact, approve this spending like Christie Holmes said he did. And he says, No, I didn't approve that. Kennedy himself says that when he spoke with President Trump, he was, I believe he said, mad as a hornet. Right.

I mean, basically, the President is calling his DHS Secretary a liar.

Yeah. And a few hours later, she's fired from her job as Secretary, and Trump announces that he's given her this previously nonexistent job as the special envoy for the Shield of Americas, a job that nobody had I've ever heard of before and something that is really mocked as it gets announced.

That sequence of events certainly suggests to me that while Trump's dismay with Nome has perhaps been building for some time for a variety of reasons. In the end, what really cost her her job was invoking Trump's name as she sought to defend something that people in both parties regard as wasteful and self-promotional, these $200 million ads. I wonder if that's the way you see it, that she violated the President's golden rule, which is, Don't throw me under the bus.

Yeah. It's really this moment where Kennedy is asking this question of Nome and what Trump knew, where where Nome connects Trump to this idea of wasteful spending. And he doesn't want to be connected to this, and he doesn't want to be used as the justification and the excuse for this massive amount of money spent on her ad campaign. This aggressive immigration approach is ultimately not what got Christie Nome fired. It's really what happened with some of these stories connecting her to the spending and her performance on the Hill. I mean, the President wants people to be good on TV. And in this moment, it was, I think, really seen as an embarrassment and a joke. I don't think President Trump wanted to deal with that anymore.

Well, if this is not a larger change, of course, for the Department of Homeland Security and its approach to immigration, I think we should talk about the person Trump has picked to replace Nome and run the Department, Senator Mark Wayne Mullen of Oklahoma. What should we know about him and how much is he basically just going to keep the existing approach that Nome did with perhaps more restraint in his testimony before Congress.

Mullen is somebody like many Republican politicians. He is somebody who supports President Trump's deportation agenda. He has been very vocal backing the ideas of a more aggressive DHS. But I think somewhat more to the point, he's this big guy, an ex-MMA fighter. For many Americans, their first experience with him was when he challenged the head of a Teamsters Union to a fight in this incredibly viral video.

Sir, this is a time, this is a place. If you want to run your mouth, we can be two consenting adults. We can finish it here.

Okay, that's fine. Perfect.

You want to do it now? I'd love to do it right now. Well, stand your butt up then.

You stand your butt up. Oh, hold on.

Stop it.

Is that your solution?

No, no. Sit down. During a hearing before Congress.

Yeah, during a hearing before Congress. No, I have the mind. I'm sorry. Hold on. Can I respond?

No, you can't. This is a hearing.

God knows the American people have enough of a contempt for Congress. Let's not make it worse. I don't like thugs and bullies. I don't like you because you just described it. He's somebody who doesn't shy away from a fight. He's willing to go back and forth with reporters, with other politicians. I think Trump likes that, and he perhaps wants that from someone who's leading this massive law enforcement agency.

Right. So overall, Mullen is a stick to your guns appointment over at DHS. Rather than this being a referendum on the ways in which immigration enforcement under Nome has worked. This really, at the end of the day, is only a referendum on Christie Nome herself.

Yeah, I think so. I think perhaps there is some expectation that without some of this drama, without some of these scandals, that maybe Molen can be more effective in following through with this this deportation agenda, really in the face of all this polling that shows that Americans are starting to get disgusted by what they're seeing on the streets. Trump hasn't backed away from any of that. Right. So it's going to be on Molen to pick this up and see this aggressive and at times unpopular campaign through for its next chapter.

Mohamed, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Thank you for having me.

On Thursday afternoon, Democrats and Congress said that Nome's firing would not change their plans to keep the Homeland Security Department defunded until they see major reforms across the agency. Meanwhile. Hey, Christie Noem. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Several of the party's leaders openly celebrated Noem's ouster. Governor J. B. Pritzker of Illinois, a loud critic of Noem's immigration tactics in his state, warned Noem that leaving the job would not absolve her from blame. Here's your legacy, corruption and chaos, parents and children tear-gassed, moms and nurses, US citizens getting shot in the face. Now that you're gone, don't think you get to just walk away. I guarantee you, you will still be held accountable. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. On Thursday afternoon, When the US House of Representatives blocked a bipartisan measure that sought to rein in President Trump's ability to continue the war in Iran without congressional approval. Because the US Senate had blocked a similar measure a day earlier, Trump now faces no constraints on his ability to wage the war. In Europe, Britain and Italy accelerated their deployment of military equipment and personnel to protect their citizens and infrastructure in the Middle East as the war continued to spill out beyond the region.

For many European governments, the deployments are occurring despite their skepticism of the war.

While the region has been plunged into chaos, my focus is providing calm, level-headed leadership in the national interest.

During a news conference on Thursday, British Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, reaffirmed his decision not to participate in the attack against Iran, even if it upsets the United States.

And it means having the strength to stand firm by our values and our principles, no matter the pressure to do otherwise.

Meanwhile, the fighting raged on. The US military said it was finding and destroying Iran's mobile missile launchers, while Iran struck pro-American Kurdish forces in Iraq who are seen as allies in America's plan to overthrow the Iranian regime. Finally, Iran's foreign minister, a accused the US of committing a, quote, atrocity at war by sinking an Iranian warship off the Coast of Sri Lanka on Wednesday and killing many of the sailors on board. The ship was thousands of miles away from the conflict when it was struck. Today's episode was produced by Olivia Nath, Carlos Prieto, and Kaitlyn O'Keefe. It was edited by Rachel Quester and Maria Byrne. Contains music by Marion Lozano, Alishiba Itup, Roni Misto, and Diane Wong. Our theme music is by Wonderly. This episode was engineered by Moxley. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Babar. See you on Sunday.