Transcript of BUILDING WEALTH THROUGH REINVENTION: INSPIRING JOURNEY OF RESILIENCE || MATT CHICK || EPISODE 062

When I was 13. There's two ways that you can look at that. One, you could take the things that you see on a daily basis. I learned work ethic by watching my stepdad call out of work or my mom not work. I learned how to be a good human by watching other people be bad. Either become the thing that you hate the most or don't become the thing that you hate the most.

When was that exact moment when you realized that real estate was your way out and was a chance for you to rewrite your own family legacy as well?

I like that question a lot. I didn't I was in a car business. I was running four dealerships. I had over 60 employees, running 25 salespeople. I enjoy real estate. Real estate as a traditional sales agent, I enjoy it to a degree. Real estate investing is really what I'm passionate about because you create your own income, you create your own opportunities. Sure, you got to go out and hustle and find it, hunt and kill it, drag it home. But at the end of the day, you get to decide what you make on that deal.

The code to winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. If you are interested in learning about Real estate, real estate development, investing. I have a person right now who is very experienced in the field. He's also a coach, he's a founder, above all, a father and husband as well. So this is going to be a very, very enlightening interview. So if you are specifically interested in learning a lot about in the real estate space, pay attention. This is going to be a very, like I said, educational, very informative interview. Without further ado, the man himself, we havea check.

What's up, man? Thanks for having me. I'm jacked. I'm excited, dude.

Thank you so much. Thank you very much, boss. I mean, one of the things I do love about people, I think you and I discussed earlier on before we started, everyone, someone's got a story. Everybody. I know you just shared something briefly. You started to speak about Christianity, path, being an atheist, and finding God. But obviously, you mentioned that your path was filled with hardship and poverty. How did that shape your hunger for success in real estate?

Man, I actually get that A ton, right? Because everybody loves the rags to riches story, right? Because people can relate to it, right? But I was born into a poverty family. My mom didn't work. She went to school pretty much full-time. My stepdad was making 12, 13 bucks an hour. My real dad was gone, left when I was three, came back when I was 13. But I think there's two ways that you can look at that, right? So one, you could take the things that you see on a daily basis. I learned work ethic by watching my stepdad call it a work or my mom not work. I learned how to be a good human by watching other people be That. Either become the thing that you hate the most or don't become the thing that you hate the most. When was that exact moment when you realized that real estate was your way out and was a chance for you to rewrite your own family legacy as well? I like that question a lot. I didn't know. I was in a car business. I was running four dealerships. I had over 60 employees, running 25 salespeople.

I enjoy real estate. Real estate as a traditional sales agent, I enjoy it to a degree. Real estate investing is really what I'm passionate about because you You create your own income, you create your own opportunities. Sure, you got to go out and hustle and find it, hunt and kill it, drag it home. But at the end of the day, you get to decide what you make on that deal. The code to winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. If you are interested in learning about real estate, real estate development, investing, I have a person right now who is very experienced in the field. He's also a coach, he's a founder, above all, a father and husband as well. So there's going to be a very, very enlightening interview. If you are specifically interested in learning a lot about in the real estate space, pay attention. This is going to be a very, like I said, educational, very informative interview. Without further ado, the man himself, we have Matt, a Chick. What's up, man? Thanks for having me. I'm Jack. I'm excited, dude. Thank you so much. Thank you very much, boss.

I mean, one of the things I do love about people, I think you and I discussed earlier on before we started, everyone, someone's got a Story. Everybody. I know you just shared something briefly. You started to speak about Christianity, path, being an atheist, and finding God. But obviously, you mentioned that your path was filled with hardship and poverty. How did that shape your hunger for success in real estate? Man, I actually get that question a ton, because everybody loves the rags to riches story, because people can relate to it. But I was born into a poverty family. My mom didn't work. She went to school pretty much full-time. My dad My stepdad was making 12, 13 bucks an hour. My real dad was gone, left when I was three, came back when I was 13. But I think there's two ways that you can look at that. One, you could take the things that you see on a daily basis. I learned work ethic by watching my stepdad call out of work or my mom not work. I learned how to be a good human by watching other people be bad. Does that make sense?

So it's like you go... So poverty, when it comes to creating money and finances, there's only two paths here for me. It was either stay in poverty, stay broke, stay exactly how I was raised, or go create something out of life. It's either you either stay exactly where you're at or you get to go build something. And for me, it was I didn't like where I was at. I hated being broke. It's probably why I did stuff that I did to make money at an early age. And I I just hated. I hated being poor. I hated it. I hated it with a passion. So I knew that wasn't for me. And for me, it was like, okay, I'll go do whatever I need to do to make sure that I'm not poor, to make sure that I have money. So for me, it was like, take the lessons I've learned from my parents that weren't good lessons and turn them into positives, right? So either become the thing that you hate the most or don't become the thing that you hate the most. So for me, I turned away from it. Not everybody is that lucky, though.

Some people fall into the same trap, the same things, the same lessons, and they become the same identity that they've had their entire life. So it's through personal development, self-growth, and all those things. And that's an easy way as well.

You're just used to it. You're accustomed to it. You're surrounded by it as well.

Man, we've been broke multiple times. I've taken a ton of risk in life, and I've lost money and made money. There's times, but you're right. Being poor, I'm scared of it, but I know that I can get through it. It does create a resilience in you. If you know what it's like to boil water on a stove to take a bath or you know what I'm saying? I don't know. Some people can relate to that some more. Or we've had potatoes or eggs. I can't eat eggs to this day because we had so many eggs growing up because they were cheap. So they'reNot cheap anymore. They're not cheap anymore. That's billionaires. Yeah, I know. So it's just like you just get condition of those things that you just don't want to be that way anymore. So for me, it was good. It pushed me to to want to go create something that's worth having.

One of the things I noticed as well from people I've interacted with, those that are still trying to find their path, usually those that had that poverty background, there's a level of anxiety and anxiousness. It's like a fear of, I don't want to go back there to the point where they're willing to do anything. Did you ever have that?

I still have anxiety this day. Yeah, for sure. Anxiety is a real thing for me. I've just learned how to use anxiety as a superpower before. Before, anxiety would stop me. It would worry me. I'd stay up at night. It would be challenging. I couldn't sleep. My wife is the only thing that could calm me down. Thank God for her. But now, I look, anytime I'm anxious, it's because I'm not taking action. So now anxiety puts me into action. So the thing that's creating the anxiety, if I can take action towards it, then it doesn't... As long as I'm going to go do something, if I'm worried about raising a couple of hundred thousand bucks or raising money for project that we have or a house that we just closed and we got to start construction or whatever the thing that gives me anxiety, I'll just go work on it. And if I can't work on it, I've learned not to worry about it.

I couldn't agree more. When was that exact moment when you realized that real estate was your way out and was the chance for you to rewrite your own family legacy as well?

I like that question. I like that question a lot. I didn't know. I was in a car business. I was running four dealerships. I had over 60 employees, running 25 salespeople, and I freaking loved it. I freaking loved it. Fast-paced, closing people, sales, high energy, sales environment. It was built for me, but my wife hated it. I was working six, seven days a week, 12, 14, 15 hours a day. I had two kids. When I get in, I had my daughter, my wife just hated it. She gave me an ultimatum of like, Hey, I already raised two kids without you. You're never around. If I have to do it, I'm going to do it legit without you. She swear she didn't say that to me, but that's how I heard it. Sometimes we hear stuff. She's like, I didn't say that. I'm like, That's how I took it. It forced me to get into real estate. I had a buddy that was doing pretty well in real estate. I've been invested in real estate for about 20 years now. So I was flipping back when I was 22, 23 years old, lost a bunch of money, and then was just dabbling in it.

So I was just like, man, screw it. Let's go. I'm going to go full-time and see what I can do. But became passionate about real estate once I found what the vehicle could actually do. When you get in the beginning, and you're just trying to survive, right? I went from making, I don't know, $125 to $130,000 a year in the car business to no income, 30 grand in the bank. That 30 grand doesn't last very long. You know what I'm saying? So it was that a necessity. Three kids at home and a wife, wife and three kids at home. I had to go perform. So I just worked it like a job. And next thing you know, you close a deal, you make 10 grand, you close a deal, make 15 grand. And then you're like, what can I really do? And then you have no ceiling anymore. Car business, I was capped. I was never going to make any more money.

As much as you can work so much, you can just go so high because it's still the same sales commissions, sales records.

And you don't own it. You don't own it. Eventually, you got to own a piece of it. Maybe not all of it, but eventually, you got to own a little bit of it. If you want to generate real wealth, long term wealth. And real estate does that. It allows you to own a piece of real estate or own a business. Or even if you're a high level salesperson closing 50 to 60 units a year, you're close to making a million bucks in GCI. So it's just shown to me. And then real estate in general, I enjoy real estate. Real estate as a traditional sales agent, I enjoy it to a degree. Real estate investing is really what I'm passionate about because you create your own income, you create your own opportunities. Sure, you got to go out and hustle and find it, hunt and kill it, drag it home. But at the end of the day, you get to decide what you make on that deal.

Oh, I love it so much. And so obviously, flipping, right now, it's become an ever so popular thing. The problem is also trying to see through these fake groups that just started after COVID. The problem with life before and after COVID is that there's just more gurus that just started something for a year or two that want to try and teach courses.

You need zero proof that you've done anything in it and you can go make money in it. If you could teach it. That's ridiculous. It's true, though. That's what it is, man. That's ridiculous. Social media has changed the game. If you have popularity, you have everything.

Which is even back then, popularity had to be earned. Right now, it's just like you say one thing, go with it, and people just follow the crowd as well. So people, even doing their due diligence, are like, Well, I found that guy was a fool, but you just looked at this amount of followers as well. You know what I'm saying? And that's the thing that I feel like that's so hard to try and see through the right people. And I don't know what it is, but the best way I've been connecting with high quality people is the fact that my surrounding is quality as well. And I've noticed that people like Jake and Joe, because because of how they are, I feel like sometimes you're also born with that natural discernment where you just know these people are just legit. 100 %. It ends up rubbing off that. It's so hard going through so many people. I'm like, this is people aren't genuine.

I'm sure you see it more than I do. I'm sure you see it a lot. You get to interview people and it's like, this is our first time meeting. You're either going to know I'm genuine or not by the end of it, right? I'm sure you see that a lot.

No, they spoke really highly of you. They spoke really high. I was excited about that.

I appreciate those guys. Yeah, they're good people.

When you started in Flipping, what was What was the process of which you did? Was it like, did you have to get the right credit score? Did you have to get the right lender? Did you have to get the right place? What was the first step that you-Deal flow is everything.

So if you can find the deal, you can find everything else, right? So we just got really good at finding the deal. So cold calling, bulk texting back when it was a thing, agent referrals. We were just laser beam focused on finding deals. And then once I started finding deals, there was really only a couple of ways I knew how to dispo the deal. It was either wholesale it or fix it up and flip it. So once I figured out I didn't have enough capital to fix and flip, I started raising capital, made a top 25 hit list. I have a buddy of mine that was doing CrossFit at 11: 00 AM during the day, and I'm like, either his wife supports him or he has money, because if you're working out in the middle of the day, you're either working at night or something, but he seemed pretty well to do. So we just started hitting that hit list and started pitching. I was pitching people. I was pitching people on what we were going to do, not what we've done. So it was all like, hey, here's my vision. Here's what it looks like.

Here's a model. Here's what I'm thinking. And, dude, we had two meetings. In one meeting, we raised a million bucks and started flipping one guy. He believed in it. The original ask was only for $60,000 because I wanted to spend money on ads. So we were going to wholesale everything. We were just going to wholesale everything. And then this guy was like, Hey, I'll come in and bring some money. And then in the very beginning, we were giving 30 % of our profit away to him. He would carry the house, carry the rehab, 30 100 %. And then as you start scaling, you realize buying houses with 100 % cash is an absolute mistake because your scalability is low. If your average asset is 400,000 bucks, $4 million doesn't go that far. It's hard to scale, right? So then we started using hard money with a combination of private money, went and raised about seven and a half million, have nowhere near that in the street anymore. But right now, we stay pretty lean right now. But we've done, I don't know, 155 deals over the last four and a half years, something like that.

What advice would you give? Because I've only experienced this thing recently, where obviously I'm going to be heading towards event space because I've been linking some of the top podcasts as well. So it's something that is in work in progress. And it was shocking to me when actually hadinvestors approach me and I'm like, Gosh, dang, I've only been doing this thing. And to see the potential, it's mind-blowing. But for people out there, you are so successful the first go. What advice would you give those that are trying to do funding and try and get investors on board.

Yeah, when you sell anything, you sell the future. When you sell a business, you sell the future. You got to show where you're currently at and that you're a viable business, but you always sell the future. This is what you could do with it if you take it, if you come along on the ride with us. Raising capital is no different. This is what we could do if you come along on the ride with us. You're a key instrument in it. I'm going to go raise 15, 10, 15, 20 million bucks or whatever it is. Then you got to create your hit list of people that you're going to go after that potentially have the money. And then you're going to go either is it private equity or is it going to go big bank equity stuff? And that's a whole other realm. I have no clue. A hundred % of my money is private. It's all people that I know. None of it's like bank. We have hard money lenders that will lend on the deals for us. It's all people that I've made January money relationships, handshake deals. I raised seven and a half million on a handshake.

Didn't have any, no contracts. Un Unbelievable. Yeah.

That tells a lot about someone's character. Because right now, it's just It's so sad with how much less trust people just have within people. And it's because there's many gurus that have ruined the industry, like in everything people have done. And I think just having that and just handshakes and still being afloat right now, it tells a lot about someone's character as well.

In 2022, when the market blipped, we lost close to half a million dollars of investor money. And then so I started calling all my investors, letting them know where we were at. We only had a couple of investors at the time. One guy, my main guy, he took 100 % of the loss. And then it took me, I took two years, and I paid him back. I think we have a balance of, I don't know, 80 grand with him still currently. But we kept doing deals, and I didn't take a dollar from it. I lived on my savings while I paid him back because that was the right thing to do.

And you know what many investors would say? Like, sorry, man, you know the risk that's involved.

100 %. I had people legit me tell me, hey, dude, you knew what the risk was. You don't need to do that. I go, no, I do because it was on a handshake. There's no flippin way I would walk away from that. Not one. Wow. Yeah. And we still own three houses together that's got another million dollars locked up in it. That once we sell them, we'll get them back.

Wow. I love stories like it. And then what would you say, somebody right now watching this thing, because I've had a lot in real estate as well. In your opinion, what would you say is the best way for somebody to start in the space? Would you say the Airbnb arbitrage, the investing?

No, dude, I suck with the short term rental, rental game, residential retail, But residential rentals, I absolutely hate them.

And that field is also sailing. I hate them. I feel like after COVID, it's going downhill.

I mean, if anybody follows the big sub2 guys and all that stuff, that's how you buy. That's how you do it now. Like the day of putting 20 % down on a $500 house, putting 100 grand down to get 400 or $500 a month in positive cash flow is absolutely ridiculous. Nobody should ever do that in my eyes. Other people are going to tell me I'm crazy. I know a lot of people that do that, but it just doesn't excite me. I'm still in a very big place of I like creating active income. I'm not necessarily chasing the passive income currently. I like active income, wholesale, fix and flips, novation, that stuff. Our residential retail team, we got 27 pending deals currently right now. So active income is where I'm at because I'm still trying to build.

I only recently learned about novation last year. The concept of it is just so fascinating. Because can you explain to the viewers what novation is as well?

Novation, it's really just a fancy term to say that you're replacing one contract with another. Exactly. That's it. It's such a beautiful concept. Yeah, it's it. You're literally taking your purchase. You have a purchase contract on the house, and then you have the ability to We use an attorney in fact document. We're allowed to then list the property on the MLS, find a retail buyer, find that, and then create a spread and then invoice for the difference. So we have to invoice for the difference once a lender gets involved. It's just unique, dude. It's just a unique beast. We don't do them in Arizona. We only do them in states that we're not licensed in. Our broker really didn't like us doing them here. And because we're licensed real estate agents, our broker didn't really love it. So I would either hire another broker to list the house. We wouldn't list the house here ourselves, or we just focused when we were doing more stuff out of state in Georgia, Florida, and Texas.

That's powerful. Yeah. No, I really like that. And I think the whole recurring generation, I'm getting this up, two guys. One of them I'm getting tomorrow. Cool. Then I'm coming back for Pace, I think next month as well.

He's a stud, dude. I like Pace a lot.

Again, it's like, sometimes, I don't know what it is. Maybe I'm just being biased because he's a member of the same faith that I am. But sometimes it's people like you, like him, where you could just sense like this. They don't want to rip people off. They just genuinely want to help people. Because I was reading a thing because he was doing a thing where he helped the homeless woman get a thing, and the comments were like, Well, why don't you just... Why do you have to show them? He's just showing out the possibility of what can be done.

A teacher man to fish, he eats forever. That's a good concept. A teacher woman had a fish, she eats forever. She never has to be hungry again. You all get canceled, I fire.

I promise you.

Yeah, I'm not worried about that. I'm just saying that's the philosophy. He did more for her teaching her how to do that than he could have ever written any amount of check.

I couldn't agree more. And it's the concept, I think, which stands by with capitalism at the end of the day, because if you know that there's potential and you're not kept and you're not subjected to be able to reach a certain level, you can actually reach that much potential. I remember coming here in the US, I don't know if you hear the accent, but I'm really from South Africa.

Okay.

But coming year, 2017, with my old mission companion from the church, and I served the service mission. And then I just started seeing the employment rate was like 3%, but then it's not the three %, it's the fact that if you know, in Utah, it's got a very door-to-door sales industry. Everyone knocks those, comes back, does an investment on a duplex or something like that, and starts building wealth at a super young age. I think seeing that from a foreigner's perspective or an immigrant, it's like, what the heck? What's possible here? You know what I'm saying? And then you hear the story that 99% of millionaires wealth comes from real estate, then you start realizing there's so much potential, but it's about doing the right deals, doing right to people, and making sure you're in the right trajectory, because you can easily get rich by scamming people as well. So integrity comes along. Do you want to add on that as well?

Yeah, take the right risk. I call it the Ten Commandments of Wholesaling, right? And one of them is it's not a deal until it's a deal. And a lot of people, when they first get into real estate investing, they're trying to force deals. So it's like, really know your numbers, know what you're capable of, buy it right, Fix it up right, don't overrun your rehab. Don't overrun your holding costs, right? Those are the little things that matter. It's like, really just pencil a good deal, right? And then make sure that you execute properly. I think a lot of people get excited about investing in real estate, especially in the flip space. And it's actually a recipe for disaster in my eyes, right? Because if you're too excited about it, you're trying to force it. You think you can push ARV, you think you can push what you're going to sell it for. You think you're going to be the next best sale in the neighborhood. Right now in the market conditions that we're currently in, it's just not true. Right now, I'm budgeting 2 to 3 to 5 % under what the last sold sale was before I buy a house.

So I'm going to come out on the market 10 to 15 grand lower than the last sale because I want to sell my house quick because it's about turns. And then if I can buy it off based off that number, then maybe I get lucky and hit the market and I make an extra 10 grand. But you want to buy off of a not a lucky number. You want to buy off, I call it a cake number. So there's two numbers, a cake number and a push number. I buy off my cake number. My push number is what I... Blue sky. If we get it, great. I'm excited. We made an extra 10, 15, 20 grand. If we don't, I bought it off my cake number and we still made 50,000.

That's powerful. And then would you say right now, if somebody were to try and start a duplex, out of these two options that I want to talk about, would you say maybe getting a duplex and then renting one out, living on the other one? Or would you say just... I know Utah was very, very common. There's basements where people end up getting a and then renting out the basement. Would you say those two would be a good way?

I think it's all just lifestyle. Is that how you want to do it? Sure. Whatever you can... If you have the capability of buying a duplex, rent one and renting out the other, great. If that's an area you want to live and you enjoy that, Yeah, for sure. Or a fourplex or whatever you can do. I think you just got to look at where you at and what can you currently do. Then you got to analyze what that looks like. Are you bankable? Do you have W2 income that you're actually bankable? What can you approve for? And then you got to run I'm not even math. Right now, the cost of money is so freaking high. Even if you're a retail buyer and you're buying at six and a half, seven % interest rate, your cost of money is pretty high. So are you actually going to cash flow that asset? Or do you have to sit on that asset for the next year and a half, two years, so you can buy out into a cheaper money to where you actually start cash flowing? So you got to really look at all the variables, right?

And then is that the life you want to live for the next two, three, four, five years? No, that's powerful. No, I think it's great. My favorite strategy is for people that... If you're just Just a normal person that's not getting into real estate investing, but you want to make sure you're acquiring real estate as investments over time, over a lifetime. Let's say you're a W2 employee, you got good income, and you want to just be in real estate, buy a house, live in it for a couple of years, make it a rental, Buy a house, living it for two years, make a rental. You do that for the next 5, 10 years, you got 10 houses. Or you get find a way to buy two. Two every year for five years. You got 10 homes, 10 homes at five, six hundred bucks a month cash flow. You're at five, six grand a If that excites you, and then over time, that becomes a hell of a lot better. You know what I'm saying? Over time, it becomes better. 20 years, 25 years, your notes are starting to get paid off or you got appreciation.

Now you can pull money And you're going to be able to get an out of your properties that aren't going to be taxed. So then it adds something.

That's so amazing. And then what's the turnaround in flipping? Let's say you buy a home and you want to flip, and howHow many days is the turnaround before it ends up flipping?

Every project is different. If you were to talk projects that I'm currently looking on, I want rehab to be somewhere between 45 and 60 days. That's good. Yeah, I want it to be done in eight weeks. So if we can be done in 60 days and back on the market, and I have 30 to 60 days of selling it, 30 to 45 days selling it. It gives me a four month turn to actually have it on the market and rehabbed, and then 30 days to sell. So I'm a four to five month hold process. Wow.

And that's when you get the cash just comes as soon as it's sold? Sold, right.

Okay.

And then what would you say is your first one, you said you made like 15K or 10K?

On which one?

The first flip you did.

Oh, first flip I did was... No, it was a home run. I did like 55 grand on that one, 60,000, something like that. Wow. Yeah, most of them were really good until about 22. In 22, I decided to scale, raised a bunch more money, had 21 projects going at once, and it just It didn't work out.

And then are you also in the commercial space?

Not a ton. I'd love to be in it. We help people get in a commercial, but we don't flip commercial.

Commercial? Oh, yeah. But isn't the process a bit more unique and different?

Yeah, for sure. It's different. What I like about commercial, it's definitely more business, right? It's more business to business, right? But I haven't flipped commercial, so I don't know.

Do you have any commercial investments, though?

No, zero. I'd be open to it, though, for sure. That'd be a good lane. What we're really looking at right now is specs. We're going to do some development specs. We're looking for land like out east, Queen Creek, Apache Junction. We're looking to do some specs. So I enjoy the flip game. Everything serves its purpose, but eventually you got to figure out what is it good for, like annually, right? I know guys that are flipping 15 to 20 houses a month, and that's their business. And they're okay with some $15,000 profits, some $50,000 profits. My goal is to make 55 grand a house, or I I won't do the deal. Wow. So if I can't make 40 to 55, then we just pass on the deal. And that's on an asset class of 5 to 600,000.

That's crazy. And then with that, in the flipping range, obviously, every state has got its own state laws and permits and stuff. Primarily, just do that in Arizona, right?

Yeah. We don't flip. We flipped in Texas, and it was a nightmare. But we don't flip another state. We wholesale in other states.

You probably don't flip in California.

That's where it is as well. No, not interested. You know what I found, dude? I used to-I was provoking you. You felt for it. No, I'm out. Sorry, continue. I found probably about three years ago, I I am that guy that has shiny object syndrome. I like different businesses. I like different ideas. I'm an idea guy, more of a visionary than an executor. So I enjoy daydreaming about big stuff. And I just found that it just didn't serve me, man. So about four years, three and a half I made a decision to just stay laser-been focused on what I'm good at and what I know. And now I just say no to everything else. Wow.

It takes a lot, especially knowing what your personality is. It takes a lot of discipline.

I had a nail salon. We had a nail salon that we owned. We had six or seven different businesses. None of them were freaking crushing. They were all just a distraction from the thing that would actually make me money. I just said, screw it, I'm out. Not doing it.

I love that. I think with this level of success, the trajectory that you've been on, I I noticed one of the things that most entrepreneurs that are successful as yourself have, there's a mentorship, people that guided them throughout the way. Did you have that for yourself?

I've paid so much for coaching. I'm literally paying. I pay $6,000 a month for coaching right now with three We're in coaches.

Do you mind sharing them?

Yeah. So Dustin Runian, Alex Sheplack, and then I have a guy named Coach JD. Coach JD is in California. Dustin Runian runs a big real estate team here in Lake Havasu. Just a freaking beast of a man, big in a development. He's raised, I don't know, hundreds of millions of dollars in money for development as a real estate team that does a ton of transactions. But he really helped me in just focus and clarity on what was important. He believes on taking work on the person and the person will develop the business. So we've worked more on the person rather than the business. And it just goes. And then Alex Sheplack, he's my marketing coach. And then his wife, Shannon Sheplack, is my health coach. So I pay a ton for coaching. If you don't know the answer, you can either go figure it out or you can pay someone that's already been there. So a high level of accountability around what I want to do. So I tend to pay for coaches, and my coaches become my friends, and then I have amazing relationships with them all.

I've never, ever interviewed a single person or came across a single person that has not invested in themselves in coaching. I have to.

It's the mostIt's the most important money that you'll ever spend in your life. Exactly. It's a cheat code. I can pay someone. One of them, I pay $1,000 a week. Another one, I pay $1,250 a month. Another one, I pay like five or $600 a month to. But literally, there are people that have done it. Now I just got to go execute it. And that's in a struggle in itself, right? Because if it's not a habit yet, you got to go, especially on the health stuff. If it's not a habit yet, you got to go figure out how to make it a habit. Business is no different, right? If you're not used to banging the phones and make 500 calls a day for you to go do it one day and then go do it for the rest of your life, you got to create that habit, right? So that's the important piece.

I think another thing I always see as two components to it. One, yes, you're paying them to try and, like you said, cheat code, give you the path that can lead to your success, but also helping you avoid the mistakes that they did. A hundred %. And then number two, it's also you're holding yourself accountable. Now that I've paid you, you're going to have to act on it because how many things have I gotten for free that I'm like, I just put aside it for free. You don't value it as much. But if you pay, I'm like, Well, I pay you a thousand bucks. I'm going to get my thousand bucks worth of what it is. So that's how I always see it. I do the same thing right now. I go to many networking events. I find ways to try and find myself in the right room and ask questions.

That's so important.

It's everything.

I've paid thousand bucks for dinners because I knew people that were going to be there that I wanted to be involved with. I've paid thousands of dollars to go to events, but I was purposeful. Figure out who's going to be in the room, and then why do I want to be connected to that person? Then I was purposeful on making sure I connected with them when I was there. Being strategic is not a bad idea.

I love it. I love it so much. From obviously going to selling about 40 homes in your first year to leading one of Arizona's fastest-growing teams. What would you say are those habits that changed from when you started to where you act right now?

The habits, they're all the same. It's working like it's a job every day. I work this like it's a job for me, even though I'm my own boss. I show up and I do the work that It's supposed to be done to make sure I have what we have. But the number one thing to focus on ever when you're building a real estate team is recruiting. So the number one thing you should always do is always be recruiting. And I've had ebbs and flows in that. Like, right now, my real estate team is smaller than it's been in a while because I took my foot off for recruiting. So today, I don't know, last week, I recommitted to recruiting. I got a pipeline of four or five agents that are thinking about coming on board. So the work works. It's just do the same thing over and over. Something that's tough for me, that it might be tough for a lot of people is the consistency in the thing that breeds you the result. It's always being willing to do the same thing over and over. Entrepreneurship is actually really boring. When you work for yourself, it's actually very boring because the boring things are what works.

So And for guys, I like excitement. Like, I thought chaos used to serve me, but chaos was ruining my results. The truth is the only thing that matters is doing the activity on a daily basis that breeds the result that you want. Exactly. So if I know that recruiting feeds my business and I need 40 or 50 agents to get back to 100 million in production, then I got to go recruit every day. That means send 20 face-talking messages to agents, congratulating them on closings, sending text messages, calling the school list. That means I have to go do those activities or I got to hire someone to do those activities for me. Right? So it's just being a real estate agent is no different. Being an investor is no different. If you want to be a real estate agent, it's 20 connects a day. Go talk to 20 people a day for the rest of your freaking life, for the rest of your life. As long as you're an agent, it's 20 people a day. That's the standard. If you want to be an investor, then I would talk to 20 real estate agents a day and see if you can find deals.

That's how I would network for the deals. Or you got to go spend money to find deals, or you got a cold call or door knock. Whatever the one thing is or two things are that you're going to go do, you got to do that for the rest of life, and you got to commit to it.

I love that. I love that so much. But the problem that lies on this whole thing is the fact that, yes, you did admit and say that entrepreneur can get boring. What happens? You know Robert Kusack is cash flow quite a time. The employee, small business, big business investor. It's the fact that when people go from E to S, they get so in love with the idea of doing everything because there's a lack of trust in delegating. Like, I want to do, I want to do, I want to do, which could lead to burnout. Also, it could lead to stagnation, but also leads to the fact that you just think that no one is good enough to do what you can do. And to some degree, it's because also people feel like they're investing so much in their own businesses that they feel like people can't be able to do that level. Have you ever struggled with that before? No. Okay.

No, I'm the guy that delegates everyone. My old business partner explained me perfectly. I'm really good at step one. I'm good at getting the relationship. I'm good at creating the opportunity. I'm good at step one. And then step two through 99, I need someone else to do. That's just who I am. That's just who I am. So my partner today, he carries a lot of the heavy lifting with the retail side and production and all that. My job is to go create opportunities, invest in real estate, raise capital and agent recruiting. So we just stay in our lanes. But you have to know yourself well enough. I didn't know myself well enough to do that. You know what I'm saying? Does that make sense? So you have to know yourself well enough. And it's explained and it describes me perfectly. That's why I don't take offense to it. If someone goes, are you good at executing? No, I'm not. I'm really good at building relationships. I'm good at getting stuff done at Defcon 5. If it's at a point that it has to get done or it's going to blow something up, I'll get it done.

But until it's Defcon 5, I suck at getting it done.

Interesting. And what's the hardest part about recruiting the right people? Because recruiting is, it's not that hard. Get an add out, get a few people there, but the right people that see your vision.

Culture is everything, and then holding standards. Got to be able to hold standards. Culture is everything. We really have four standards on our real estate means 20 connects a day, show up to 90 % of everything put on, clear your tasks every day. And the last one, I have to cuss, but it's don't be an asshole. And what that really means is have a spirit of contribution. And I stole this from Dustin and run you. And then how he runs his real estate team. Those are literally his standards. The only one that he doesn't have is tasks done daily. I have one that all your tasks have to be done daily. And the spirit of contribution basically means, hey, in the beginning, people are going to pour into you. When you have a question, someone's going to answer. Sooner or later, you're going to have the answer to a question that someone else has. You're expected to give that answer. We're here as a community and help each other to get where we want to go. And if that's not who you are to your core, then we're just not going to be the right fit.

Because we give everything away for free. I'll help anybody anytime. Don't care. I have a couple of coaching clients now that pay me. I invite them to the team stuff. Not everything has to be paid for. There's a lot of stuff people get for free just from being in our world.

And that's so true. I couldn't agree more. Culture makes or breaks a whole team. And you've seen cultures that are just a little toxic. You've seen cultures that are super complacent, where people don't see a vision. You see people that are like, oh, I just want to clock in and clock out as well, because you don't want to really be there. And are your sales reps? Is it a commission thing?

All of it. Yeah. Okay. So we have about 12 people on staff that we pay, and then the rest are 1099 contractors. Okay. Which is also hard in itself. It's actually easier to pay someone. And most people work better when you're paying them as an employee. I have a freaking crazy concept of like 100 % payrolled real estate agent team where everybody is on salary. And I think that we could do more business because then you hold them accountable to the standard because you're paying them to do it. And most people would probably do it easier than they would do it themselves. And I could pay them probably 30 % less of what they would make as a regular agent just doing it on their own. Most people operate better as an employee. It's very rare to find someone that can operate to a standard. At least I haven't found it. Out of ten, you're going to find two or three. And then you try to hope to God, you keep the two or three. That'sthat's what it is.

How's retention on your side?

We have an attrition rate of 30 %.

Okay. Yeah.

Which we need to fix. It's industry standard for a real estate team. But I would like it to be a lot less. And that's going to come down to culture. It's also going to come down to opportunities, and that falls on us. The bigger we can create the team, the more opportunities we can give agents, the bigger they could see a vision within staying. And those are our burdens. We have to make it so big that they never see themselves going anywhere.

Exactly. And also incentives and stuff like that, right? And seeing like, hey, listen, if I reach a certain target, this is what's going to be able to be there as well. Because-100 %. Real estate is such a... It's a cycle. So coming with teams, coming, coming and going. It's like, Oh, yeah, let's try that. Let's try that thing.

And most teams are a race to the bottom, like commission splits, brokerages are racing the flat fees. Most of it's a race to the bottom on how cheap someone could be with you. But we don't prescribe to that.

And what do they do? Do they just do cold calls?

No, we have five Legion lovers We focus on Sphere, social media, open houses, leads, and then agent referrals. Okay. Those are our five lead leverage. Okay. Yeah. Super, super laser beam focus on what we do. If someone comes in and plugs in and do what we tell them, they'll make money, guaranteed.

And what would you say is good in that field in making money per year?

Oh, I mean, good. I know agents make a half a million, $600,000 a year. Okay. Yeah. I would say average agent, they all want to make six figures, right? That's the big... Anytime you interview a real estate agent, they want to make six figures. That's what it is. But if you get 20 connects a day, you'll make six figures for sure.

I think that's one thing I like as well about real estate, is that it's been consistent over the years and what the standard expectation is, because with all these other industries, I was in the solar industry where it was slightly more than six figures, but then it went... It's one of the booms that go up and down. But insurance and real estate is one of the most consistent stuff over years and over time as well. And also the fact that I noticed that you Should I have to help a lot of entrepreneurs also make six figures? Is you giving a realistic expectation rather than saying your first year, you can make like $30 million.

No. I tell everybody. Anytime someone says, Hey, I want to make 100 grand, I tell them straight up. I go, I don't own a bunch of businesses. You can make 100 grand part time. So if you're not willing to work 40 or 50 hours a week, then let's just get rid of the 100 grand goal. If you only want to work 20 hours a week, then you can probably going to make 40, 50,000. Now, I know people that have done it, that have made multiple six figures. I know a good buddy of mine worked at the post office, and he was doing 40 deals a year. That might be wrong, so don't quote me on that. But he was making well over in the six figures and running a real estate team and working at the post office. That was just an animal, just a freaking animal. High energy, super fit. Do is just an animal.

That's an anomaly, though. It's not a very common thing. It's not at all.

No, not at all.

What's the most painful investment that you've ever made? And what did it teach you? I think you may have mentioned that the one you lost is after COVID, but is that the most painful one?

No. If we're talking deals, like investment deal, I would say I had a deal that I bought. We call them relationship deals. I was trying to get in a relationship with a guy. It was a deal that I typically don't buy sight unseen. So what I did is he had a house. I underwrote it. I didn't really necessarily love it. I asked him a bunch of questions on it, and I ended up saying, Hey, dude, I'll buy this. I'll take this off your hands, but I want to see everything that you get. I want to be a legit buyer for you. So I bought it sight unseen. He told me I couldn't walk it, and I knew I shouldn't have done that. Anyways, I bought the house. Rehab was only supposed to be 50,000. That's what I was told that it was going to be. Ended up getting red-tagged by the city. The addition that was on it wasn't permanent. They made me rip it off, redo it. So I ended up having to tear off 600 square feet of this house. Permanent, put 600 square feet on, do a full rehab. Cost me 145,000 bucks when it was supposed to be 50 grand.

So it was 100 grand over budget. Wow. Sold the house, and then I lost $142,000 on one project.

I'm a visual learner. You know what I'm saying? So I paint pictures every time people are talking. Right now, that's like, oh, my gosh.

It's like lighting a bag of money on fire.

I need to get antidepressants for that.

It's horrible. It's horrible.

And I think it's important because then you learn from these mistakes. I don't do it now. One thing I can't stand as an entrepreneur is entrepreneurs that just have these success rates and success stories are one, one, one, one, one all the time. Because when something It does happen. You're not prepared for it as well. But that was a lesson. Do you think it has helped you see things a little differently now?

I will say no, if I can't walk it. If you got to buy a sign to see, and I just don't trust it anymore. And there's a lot of guys that do, and they're willing to take the risk. I'm just not that guy. If I can't walk it, cool. Send it to someone else.

So you're risk averse, pretty much?

Yeah. So the way I underwrite deals now is I disqualify them. If I can't disqualify it, then it's a deal. I literally look at every deal on why it's not a deal now. Every deal. I don't even try to make it a deal. My only goal is to make it not a deal. And then if I can't do that, it's probably a deal. Wow. So I literally tear the deal apart.

And do you also focus on the residential side? Do you focus on the high-end homes, like in the high millions?

We've done million and a half is our biggest. Okay. Yeah, a million and a half. I would. It just takes so much more capital, right? You just place in way more money. Your rehabs are bigger. Now you're like, 2, 3, 400,000 in rehab. Your holding costs are 10, 15 grand a month per project. It just takes a lot more capital. So the risk reward for me. And I haven't seen it work out where I'm making multiple six figures on the deal. If I'm putting up a half a million bucks of capital, I'd like to see at least a return of 150 to 200 grand. And I have found that they could be $100,000 rips or they could be $75,000 rips. So for me, I'd rather go do two at $500,000. Wow.

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

It's just longer projects, right? You start getting a 3500, $4,000-square-foot house. You're reconfiguring it. You're doing a bunch of stuff. And then you're dealing with a different buyer that has a different attention to detail. So now it's got to be meticulous and it's got to be perfect, which is fine. I enjoy giving that product, but there's no room for error at that point.

And then what's the ROI for an investor that invests in you in these projects? What's a return on investment? 10 %. Okay. That's good.

Yeah. I guarantee 10 % of return for anybody that places money with me. I haven't needed money in a long time, so I don't necessarily raise capital much anymore. But if someone wants to get on in their eligible projects because we align, if I like them, I got one guy right now that just Just generally wants to just get in the game. He's got about 100,000 bucks, and I'll do a deal with him, and I'll give him 20 % of whatever we make. I probably won't pay him 10 %. I'll give him 20 % of the profit on the deal just because.

Wow. And would you say what's the turnaround for that? If he does that.

Six months. I tell everybody six months.

Wow.

So if he's willing to put up 100, I'll probably return 20 grand to him in six months, which is phenomenal. Where else can you get that? It's a no brainer.

Where else? I'm trying to even think of a volatile stock market. I'm trying to think of of bonds. Bonds is always a guaranteed thing right now, but that's still like what, 4%, 5%, depending on what it is. And that's also in a 12-minute span. It's ridiculous. That's amazing. 20% on that.

It's huge. Yeah. So it just depends. I only do that for people that are coming into my world, though. It's rare that I need a bunch of money anymore. I have enough capital raised. I'll never scale back to 20 projects.

What's the highest you've gotten from one investor?

Three and a half million.

Where the heck did you get these investors? I need you to change my circle.

Yeah, one time I had three and a half million out on one guy. He's actually my business partner now. So that's why I said, I don't need a bunch of money anymore. So when things got bad, he was the guy that took 100 % of the hit. We were partnering before that. But when he goes, I'm going to take 100 % of the hit, he could have easily said, no, I want all my money. And I would have gone. It would have taken every ounce of dollar that I had in the bank to make it right. So when he did that, it solidified. I'll do whatever he ever needs. Genuine friend to this day. I'd go to war for him. I'd protect his family like they were mine. I'd show up and take on hell.

That's this interview in, so while I hardly even looked at the questions. Let's start the interview right now.

No, but that's the relationships we're looking for in life, isn't it? That's what it's all about. If we're looking for genuine relationships that we care about others. I mean, that's why we're here.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I like that as well, because when you build relationships with people, it has a different feel. And And especially in this conniving and evil world, you can cherish and value it so much because you realize, wow, you really are a very unique anomaly, and I'll go and do anything for you and for you as well. I'm glad you found those. I'm glad you saw it on yourself. And what advice would you give people to try and get those genuine relationships?

Oh, you have to be genuine. Like, vulnerability is everything. You have to be genuine. You have to be real. You have to be about it. I don't even know how much more time we have, but for me, I come from a background of where my family were, my brothers. It was people that I was doing illegal stuff with, people that I was running life differently. So you had a legit bond. You would literally go to war for each other, right? If one dude was in a fight, you all were in a fight. And I hate to relate that to this, but it's that vulnerability, that sacrifice, even in today's. So that's how I value my relationship. Am I willing to go put my life on the line for someone else? And if it is, that's a relationship that I care about. But it only comes by being authentic and vulnerable and real and having authentic conversations. It's not about me winning on him and him winning on me. It's about how can we help each other win and level up and get where we want to go. It's a true brotherhood, right? So it's about that brotherhood that look for.

So if I can't have that, then I'm not about it. I suck at small talk. I just want genuine relationships. So I find myself going deeper in conversation faster. And then if it just doesn't match, it doesn't match. And we can be acquaintances and love each other, but we just would never be close, right? And as men, we're looking for genuine relationships that are close because a lot of times as men, we feel like we have to have this facade, but it's not true. It was so much ego.

I got to show up to be something I'm not. I got to be able to try and say, drive the cars that I'm not calling them in a forward, like to try and live a life, something like try and portray something. It's just...

I drive a '98 Silverado, and people make fun of me all the time. I have one body, he goes, You're the richest bro. He goes, You're the brokest rich dude I know. It's the greatest compliment in the world. It's the greatest compliment. My overhead at my house is ridiculously low. People laugh. I live a simple life, man. I enjoy that. I know what it's like to be broke. One person does beat you, though.

Warren Buffet. Oh, yeah, dude. I don't think you can be like, you know what I'm saying? He's the only person I could say beats you. He has his three bedroom and all that.

I know. That's true. I got a nice house. Yeah, that's true. But it's guys like that that I learned from, man. It's guys like that. I don't want to be the flashy guy. Never have been. I just want to be myself. Show up, be me, and then whoever that resonates with, I'm happy with. If it doesn't resonate, I'm okay with that.

Matt, every time I conclude and ask all my guests, this one thing is the last and final one. Because I say the coach winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow, in your definition, what does the term winning mean for you?

First thing that comes to my mind is a relationship with God. But I don't... Winning in life is having a relationship with God and knowing that your time here is not forever. So just get right with him. So when you're done, you're done and you're going to the right spot. But then if I was talking like a worldly winning, I think the relentless pursuit of something that excites you. I don't necessarily know if it's about achieving or monetary value. It's something worth living for on a daily basis, something worth creating. Relationships, family, being productive in society, a business that provides the lifestyle that you want. It's about living with purpose and never losing sight of that purpose. Having something to live for that's greater than yourself.

Powerful. Wow. If you could let our viewers know where they could get a hold of you, if they want to try and get in a coaching program, learn on courses and Instagram handles, social media, whatever it may be. And I'll leave the description. I'll leave titles in the description section as well regarding that.

Instagram, I am Matt Chick. Facebook, Matt Chick. Those are going to be the easiest ways to find me. I suck at all the other platforms. Still figuring that out. But Instagram is phenomenal or Facebook, Matt Chick or I am Matt Chick on Instagram. Awesome stuff. Yeah.

The code of winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. The man, the myth, the very legend himself, Matt Chick, baby. Let's go.

That was fun, baby. That was fun, dude. I loved it. Thanks for having me.