Transcript of The A’s Leave Oakland, ESPN’s Latest Shocker, and Million-Dollar Picks With Logan Murdock, Bryan Curtis, and Joe House

Coming up, The Oakland A's Million Dollar Picks, ESPN. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did Over the Top. You can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel, or you can just listen to it. You can also listen to the Ringer WMBA show because we launched that last week in time for the WMBA Playoffs. Went chalk for round one, but they're about to get really good. So please subscribe to that podcast. You can hear us here at Sohe. And a cast of rotating co-hosts coming in to break down whatever is happening. If you like this podcast, you can watch it on our YouTube channel, which is the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. We ran a lot of the clips. We do Cousin Sal and I Live on Sunday nights as well. Then on YouTube TV, we had the Ringer Sunday pregame, which is an excellent show. Starts at 11:00 ET and runs really 90 minutes. I think it's the best gambling show, pregame show. Please check that out. It's also on FanDuel TV. I hope you have checked out Mr. Mcmahon on Netflix.

It went up yesterday. It was number two on Netflix. We just could not edge out the Menendez brothers. They were too crafty. I really thought Vince could take them, but there's two Menendez brothers. But anyway, a lot of people are watching it, and it's been really fun to finally get it out there because we spent a lot of time on that. We talked about it on Tuesday as well in this podcast. So anyway, Mr. Mcmahon on Netflix. Check it out this weekend. Coming up on this podcast, we're going to talk to Logan Murdoch about the last Oakland A's game in Oakland. We're going to talk to Brian Curtis to recap a pretty crazy day where ESPN laid off Zack low. And what does this mean as we head into the end of '24 and '25 for ESPN, what it wants to be? It just felt like a moment. And obviously, we worked with Zack, and we love Zack, but it was more We're like, What does this mean for ESPN Big Picture? Then last but not least, we're going to talk to Joe House and do Million Dollar Picks with him and talk about why this might be a Let's Be careful Week.

So that's the podcast. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're probably committing an HR violation here. Wilgenberg. Com, paternity leave. I think this is the first time I've ever asked anyone on paternity leave or maternity leave to say, Hey, come on, we got to do something here. But this is a momentous day. The Oakland A's last home game tonight. You wrote about-It's happening right now.

It's happening as we speak.

As we speak. Yeah, we're taping this on an afternoon. You wrote about this for The Ringer. This is the last of the three Oakland teams to leave the city over the last five years. Oakland now will have no professional sports after this weekend. So I had to ask, how are you feeling? What's going on?

I'm feeling just a range of emotions. I'm sad, first and foremost, that my team is leaving. The Raiders are probably the team that I have the most connection to, but the A's are a team that has always been here, whereas the Raiders have has been defined by its nomadic history, just going from Oakland to LA and the Vegas, right? So you expected the Raiders to leave at some point, but you never really expected the A's to leave. And it's weird. I went to where you referenced the piece that I did. I went to a game a few months ago, and there was emotions coming out that I didn't feel... I didn't even know we're even there. The only other comparison to a team... It's like if the Mets left New York, or something like that. It's not the relationship with baseball in this region is pretty special because you have two iconic franchises less than 10 miles from each other, the Giants and the A's. It's not like a Clippers-Lakers situation where one team is irrelevant and another team is the cream of the crowd. No, you had two teams that you had to draw battle lines with.

We're talking about the A's today, but I can't wear a Niners. If I'm cold and it's freezing, I can't wear a Niners jacket. I can't do it. There's no way that's even happening because it's just in my DNA to hate that team. And now there's no other team. There's not going to be any other teams to root for other than San Francisco teams or teams in San Francisco for this region. And that's really tough. The East Bay had its own identity. Specifically, Oakland had its own identity through these sports teams. And it's really hard to recreate that. I know we have the Oakland Ballers and We have some semi-pro teams out here, but it's not going to be anything like the A's. It's not going to be anything like the Raiders, the Warriors, too, even. I covered that team. They were in Oakland when they went on their dynastic run or most of it. I feel a lot of range of emotions. I feel sad that my team's gone. I feel anger because of John Fisher, just bar none, the worst owner in sports right now. If you had to put a ranking for bottom-tier owners, he's He's right there.

He's been in the pain of- No, he doesn't even...

There's nobody else in the finals.

It's just a one-man final. It's the John Fisher tier. It's right there. It's him playing against himself. But it's been really just gut-wrenching. He put out a letter a couple of days ago talking about just how sorry he was. It was just a Rock of shit, Bill. I don't know if you read it, but it was just basically we tried to get a stadium built. He did everything in his power to screw over, not even just baseball fans, but team employees. And there was a story that came out today in the San Francisco Chronicle about he's stiffing benefits of the stadium workers at the Coliseum. He's just a terrible owner. And to see how this has played out with him is just gut-wrenching because there's a lot of money in the Bay Area. You could just make one call to Joe Lake, and the A's are here. And just to know that it came down to somebody who never really put money Reinvesting to the team, never really put money into the organization. For years, just took a check from the league, from the TV money. He just took the TV money from the league, didn't reinvest into the team, didn't reinvest into the organization, the revenue share.

He just took revenue share checks this whole time. And it's just really disappointing because there's a lot of money in the Bay Area. There's a lot of prideful fans on the East Bay that are not going to have a team or any team. And the fact that the only teams that are available represent San Francisco. And I love San Francisco. I got a lot of family in San Francisco. That's great. But that's their team. The Niners are their team. The Giants are their team.

People aren't switching over. They're not like, Okay, now I'll be a Giants fan. It's not happening.

Every time I go to my family's house in San Francisco, over in Bayview, they're just talking shit about the writers. I'm not going to have that anymore. My kid ain't going to have that. That's really a thing right now. I know my kid is going to probably be a Giants fan and a Niners fan. There's nothing that I can do about it. No, you can't do stuff about that.

I did stuff with my kids. They just knew Lakers and Yankees were out, and they can go fucking live somewhere else. There's your room. If you want to keep it, you will not be a Laker fan.

So my kids knew. I sent a picture in the group chat of my Raiders hat into the family Murdoch group chat the other day, and I just got just torched. Why would you just put loser organization onto your son at this stage. It's tough because I can't say anything about it. But the A's are more gut-wrenching because they're going to go to Vegas, and Vegas doesn't even want them.

It's just tough all around. But he's following this Mark Davis blueprint of Mark Davis takes the Raiders, moves them to Vegas, gets the city to pay for 40% of the stadium, increased the franchise of the stadium, got in with football in a city that's growing as a sports city.

But the thing is, the key difference is Vegas is one of the Raiders. You can't convince me that Vegas even wants the A's or baseball in general at this point.

Who's going to baseball in Vegas?

It's just- And it's not even a dome stadium, right? Who's going to stay... Bill, I know you love baseball. Are you going to go watch A's Red Sox in the middle of July in Vegas?

No. Why would you do that? Never in a million years. I have some thoughts. I grew up... The first Red Sox playoff series ever was over Oakland during that last stretch when Oakland won the three World Series in a row, and then we beat them in the ALCS. But so there was that Raleigh Fingers, Charlie Finley. There was that era. There was that era where they had all the awesome starters with Mike Norris and all those guys. Then there was the Ricky era, and that bled in. Those two bled together. Then they had the Dave Stewart and Seiko Maguire, where all of a sudden they seemed like the most important team in baseball again.

Ricky was also on that team, too. Yeah.

Then they had the Moneyball era with Billy Beane, where it seemed like they were just outwitting everybody ends up being a movie. I think what's so shocking to me about it is, and this is not a new lesson, how much power a bad owner can have. I saw this in LA with Sterling. Not only is there a bad owner, not only is he ruining the culture, not only is he ruining fans, wanting to even like the team, but you can't get rid of them. They're like the tenant that just figures out how to use any... Like a parasite. Yeah, to use every loophole against the landlord to just never leave. It's like you read those stories on Apple News about this person rented out their back house to somebody, and seven years later, the person still there not paying rent. That's what somebody like John Fisher becomes. It's the loophole professional sports has never figured out. Once you get a team, you can't lose it basically unless you do something awful. So he didn't really do anything awful, but he was an awful owner. And how do you fix that? How do you stop it?

You can't, and now you lose your team.

Yeah. It's It's hard to even... That's a hard pill to swallow, right? Because even... I think about NBA, right? I know Sterling got his team. They made him sell his. But David Stern also made the Maloofs in a roundabout way sell their team, right? After years of them saying they wouldn't... And there has been a willingness from Major League Baseball of letting this happen in a way that's just really... I don't want to say criminal because that's a different connotation, but it's terrible, right?

Well, it almost seems like they were cool with maybe shoving baseball out of Oakland and pushing it toward another city. That's how I felt not knowing anything.

Yeah. I know there's connotations of where the stadium is and things like that in the city of Oakland. The pandemic has really ravaged the city in terms of just homelessness and also just stuff with local city government that is really going on right now. But I feel like that's been used as a scapegoat for a lot of teams. It's not like a team that, for most of its existence, at least in the last 30 years, the last long as I've been, sports teams have really just taken advantage of the fact that of Oakland's insecurity when it comes to wanting a professional team, the Raiders didn't win. They came back from Los Angeles and just taking all that public money that honestly just got paid back after 30 years and with all that interest being accumulated. That's something that I was thinking about when I went to the last game was just, yeah, I love these teams, but these teams have also taken advantage of citizens like me, where they're getting these free passes. And this is modern day sports, where they're getting these free passes to take public money, where public money can probably be best served in a school district, which is Oakland, or didn't have a great school district when I was growing up.

And then it's taken away from city funds, taken away from stuff that could really help the city in a lot of ways. You're not really investing from it, you're actually taking from it. And that's something the Raiders did. That's something that the A's have done for the last few decades as well. On one hand, it's tough to lose a team that you seep your identity towards. But then on the other hand, it's like, well, you're not You're not investing in us. You're not investing in the citizens. You're not investing in the kids and the next generation in the way that you say you are. So it's a double-edged sword. And that's sports in the modern day, where you talk about private versus public funds, and what gets used and what gets taken away. And then the other side of that, which I dealt with, was our school district was bad, and I had to go a different route. But I was a fortunate one that my parents could scrape a little bit of money. We weren't well off by any means, scrape a little bit of money to go to private schools, but I'm the lucky one.

There was a lot of people that I grew up with didn't have that. And so it's a two-edged sword where you talk about on the one hand, yeah, man, it's cool to have a team where you can take Bart and go to the East Bay or go to East Oakland and watch Derek Jeter, go watch Kobe Bryant, go watch LeBron, or go watch Peyton Manning. One of my favorite times ever was getting to see Peyton Manning on Monday Night Football in 10 minutes from my house. That was crazy. But on the one hand, you have that. But on the other hand, a lot of people are not getting city funds and not getting what they're supposed to be getting as citizens.

Well, you're talking about sports extortion, where these people that own the teams who have money, who know all the loopholes, and they threaten, Well, if you don't do this, we might go. We might go somewhere else. Now you're taking funds that could go to all these good places, and you're just helping pay for this arena that the people could probably pay for anyway. I think the fear of that, and the reason the cities over and over again will do that, is what's happening in Oakland right now. Oakland loses three teams, right? Plus COVID. You think of where the city was 10 years ago when everybody was talking about Oakland's on the upswing All this good stuff is happening here. Then now all of a sudden, there's no team. Whether we want to admit this or not, so much of a city's identity can come from sports and from the heroes people have in the stadiums and the joint experiences. Once you pull that out, that's the reason Oklahoma City, when there was even a little hint that they might lose the thunder, they've figured that shit out.

The mayor said, No, we got this. That's what happened in Kansas City, too, with the Chiefs. We're going to go to Kansas if you don't pay up for Arrowhead or to pay up for stadium improvements, right? Right.

And it works because there's always people to point to, right? You can point to the Seattle. They lost the Supersonics. They still don't have basketball. You can point to Hartford. Hartford had the Whalers. That was a great rival to the Bruins when I was growing up. Buffalo Braves. Buffalo Braves is another one where you lose that team. And now, at least Buffalo had the bills. Hartford has nobody, right? They've never had a team. They've never been able to get one back. Seattle has other teams, but they've never been able to get basketball. I guess with Oakland, now they're going to say, Well, San Francisco is right there. You can go see. But I don't think that's how people are wired.

You've been to Bay Area. That bridge, psychologically, it's 10 minutes That's an hour. Or 10, 15 minutes away, but it's a whole world away. It's not as simple as we're going to get on a bridge. From where I live in the East Bay, it'll probably take an hour to get to a San Francisco game. And I can see San Francisco from where I live. It's not that. And also, you even talk about just how much Oakland has been through over the last 10 years. Yeah, it was popping in Oakland, even when you came for the Warriors run. It was on the up and up. But also on the other side of that, a lot of my homies were pushed out. A lot of people that look like me were pushed out due to gentrification. Oakland has been through a lot, and it's really hard to imagine what's next for this city. Forget a sports team. I want to see what Oakland does as a city going forward because it's really been hit hard over the last few years. And I don't know. One thing that teams bring is spotlights to other things that are happening into Yeah, it's a good point.

Into what's going on in the region. And I wonder what Oakland is going to be without that spotlight of just good and bad, right? The spotlight of we need to do better, but also of the good things that we are doing, because Oakland has a stigma. I think it's the greatest place on Earth. I love being from here. I love living near here and love being around in Oakland. It is hard to, when you're here and out of towner, say, Oh, man, you're from Oakland? Oh, Man, it's this, it's that. Then on one hand, it's like, What can you say? But also, it's a beautiful town. It's a beautiful place that has continued to be on the short end of the stick, based on all the things that we're talking about. I I don't want it to have that stigma. That's going to be the hard part.

Well, you know what's interesting about that? You made me think of how when I would go to Oakland, I would see the stadiums, right? Yeah. Even during the Warriors run from.

Because right off to the airport, you get on the freeway right there. You could see the stadium.

Man, that baseball stadium is in rough shape. Sometimes you can see the sports buildings of cities and say, What? What's going on there? Why don't they have a new stadium? But it was almost like they were intentionally making the baseball stadium worse and worse. Trying to... That was the one part I didn't understand with Fisher. What was the point of making the baseball stadium almost a health hazard? It was probably the most unsafe baseball stadium or football stadium or any stadium that anybody in the country had in the last 25 years. I didn't understand that game plan at all.

It was some weird sabotage. It just felt like some weird sabotage. Because on the other hand, if you were to pinpoint the perfect place to put a stadium in Northern California California, that site is the perfect one. If you want to talk about public transportation, getting right there for Bart, it's right next to the airport. But the reason why teams didn't want to be there, and I'm including the warriors and including narrators in this place, because it's not... I'm trying to say the right way to say this, but it's a lot of Black and Brown people. It's a lot of low income people. It's not a place where people think that they can sell against advertising or sell a stadium. Hey, we could put it in middle of East Oakland. A lot of people with money are scared of that reality. That's why they kept doing the Howard Terminal when there was a local residents were like, Yo, You already have a stadium and a great stadium site. Why don't you just use that? They were trying to go towards that.

And build around it. That was the big thing, right? Because you went there and it was just basically the stadiums, that was it. It was traffic in and out.

But that's what I'm saying. These teams don't want to invest in these parts of the town. Instead, they want to invest in other places that really don't make as much sense. Because if you were going to go to Howard Terminal, then you're messing with the ports, and you're messing with a lot of other people that are Black and Brown. You're messing with a lot of other things when you could do it right here. And that's what I'm talking about, the double-edged sword, because you're like, Man, I want my team here. But also, they're not investing in us. And that's something that's always been on the front of the minds of East Bay people in Oakland, Citizens General.

The flip side of that has been what's happening in Inkwood, where they put Sofi. Balmer just built this awesome Clippers Arena, and you're seeing money trickling there. Now, part of that is because it's the opportunity. That was one of the only places to develop real estate. But it's also People are trying to invest in that part of extended LA and trying to figure out could we have stuff down here.

I would just say one thing about the Inglewood, the Unglewood thing, man. I wish that LA's public transportation was even a little bit better because it is hard as hell to get to the forum in so fine.

That's definitely not going to be easier, too. We'll see how it goes with the Cooper games. But my thinking with that is maybe 10 years from now, it'll be better. It's weird to me, though, because I always thought the thing that always struck me going to Warriors games was how convenient it was off of the airports. It just was a lot easier than maybe some of these other cities and why the right person didn't grasp it.

It's really hard to get to Chase Center. If you go at a certain time, it's pretty hard. Whereas going to Oracle, it was like, I don't know, you stay at that one hotel downtown, or if you stayed in San Francisco, it's just an easier experience just to get around.

What if the Warriors lost in that new arena, in your opinion? Because I know you've been there a bunch, and Everybody loved going to the Oakland Games, although the 2000 version of that was so much better. But still, there was definitely an atmosphere that now it just feels very fancy.

It's very sanitized. I'm I'm really glad I'm not coming back to the top of the year because I'm not trying to hear nobody from the Warriors get mad at me when I say this, but it's the truth. Taste Center is just a very plastic version of a modern-day stadium. There was a little bit of soul in that finals run, but you started to see this shift. I would say, even back in the Oracle days from '18 and '19, you started to see this shift. And there would be complaints from the Warriors like, 'Yo, why isn't it as loud as it used Why are people not- Yeah, I wonder why. Why aren't they into the game? And it's even more so now, especially now that they have those lower-level suites. I've never seen lower-level suites. I didn't even know what those were until I went to Chase Center. They have those lower-level suites where... And you see it on TV when you come back from halftime and there's nobody in the lower boat because everybody's in the clubs, they're in the JPMorgan club, they're in Golden Gate Club. And it's a lot more techy now. It's a big tech ethos.

They're catering now to the Silicon Valley, the South Bay, as opposed to what made Oracle magical. And I get it, right? The warriors want to make as much money as possible. This is one of the biggest windfalls in American history in the tech business, right? You want to feed off of that. But as a consequence, it can be dead. If you go to a Tuesday game in January, it could be pretty dead at Chase Center. As opposed to Oracle.

Just wait till five years from now and it's like, And here he is, Brandon Podzebski.

Oh, man.

There's no Steph Curry anymore because he's in Charlotte with his dad.

It's going to be louder at the Balcary's games than it is at the Warriors games in about three and a half years.

I was going to ask you about that. I'm excited. Wouldn't the big win would have been to put that team in the old Oracle? Yeah, but here's another thing with that. Tried to juice it back up. I know why they couldn't because they own the team and they're trying to get dates in there and the whole thing.

I like the fact that they were going to put it at Chase Center because those ladies deserve first-class. I get it.

I'm just saying. I've been in Oracle. That could have been a good link, though, to the old era.

They're actually putting the practice facility. They redid the whole practice facility at the Oakland Marriott. That's where the ladies are going to be practicing, and they have a state-of-the-art thing. So they're doing right by Oakland. The Warriors and the Valkers are doing right by Oakland.

That team's going to crush. What they got was a $50 million expansion fee? They've already probably tripled that, but thanks to the Caitlin era.

And you know, Lakeum is trying to get Sabrina. Stop playing. You already know that that's probably the first or second meeting to get Sabrina in three years.

Well, what's weird is, I think with the way the salary cap works there, it's not like you can bowl over another team.

You can just- There's another TV deal coming very soon for the W. So it's going to... Look, and also, don't underestimate Lakem. If he really wants to make a splash with this, obviously, he doesn't want to be... He doesn't want to get in the W to be a mediocre franchise.

This could be his new thousand points of late.

Listen, the Warriors are In about five years, the warriors are probably going to suck, right? So if you have some... If you have some like, Championship Ethos or something that Lake of Ken, like hang his hat on. Another thing that's interesting. And this is just This is something that you're going to enjoy because I know you love owner beef. I'm not saying this is technically owner beef, but it is like owner like side eye. Think about the dynamic between Mark Davis and Joe Lake of for the Aces versus the Valkerries. Joe Lake of has seen Mark Davis's work, just being in the Bay Area this whole time. You can't tell me that he's not looking at Mark Davis and the Aces like, I want to kick their ass, just off a GP. There's going to be that. There's going to be the Joe Lakev with Joe Seye out with the Liberty. It's going to be some owner beef. Wait, just wait till this is the next generation of W basketball. It's just as we get more money and more NBA owners investing, just keep a look out for that owner beef.

Well, think about, so it was supposed to be them Portland were supposed to be the two teams last year for 50 million each. Then Portland, the guy, backed out. So it only ended up being the Golden State team. Then a year passes, and then Toronto comes in for 125. So it's He's already two and a half times higher just in one season. If Kaitlyn had been able to pull off that game yesterday and just got into a game three, that would have been the biggest rating in the history of the league. But I think that rating yesterday- I was waiting for Kaitlyn versus Diana Tarasi.

That was what I wanted. That's what I was waiting for.

I'll tell you, here's how far the WMBA has come. I had a three-team series parlay that I put real money on with the Sun and the other two heavy favorites. I thought the Sun were going to wipe out the fever. Aren't you proud of me?

I'm so proud of you because I've been locked in on the W, as you know. Just for the listening audience, as we're at the end of this, let's go three minutes on the W real quick. I'm really intrigued by this Ace's Liberty matchup. I know that the Liberty are a favorite, and I've heard it. I've seen Andrea Carter already pick the Liberty, but I'm fucked that. There's a look in Asia's eyes that is like, what, 2018 LeBron, except I think she's going to win it. I think There's a look in her eye where the team isn't as good as it should be. Chelsea Graves has already been injured. They've had some... Kelsey Plum has dealt with some stuff. But Asia has been steady, and she has a look in her eye, and I think the Liberty are so soft, and I think that the aces are going to go through them, and I think that they're going to win another championship. I think it's one of those things that is destined.

I will say, really good home buzz in those Liberty games. That's a genuine atmosphere now. Dare I say, tough place to win.

Yeah, but hey, I've been to... Every time I take my summer league quest to Vegas, I make sure that I go to a Aces game. I still think it's the best environment because Barclays is still an NBA arena, and there's other stuff to do. There's nothing else to do in that Mandalay Bay arena except watch the game. And they are on top of you. It is popping. It is loud. And they have the Chicago Bulls, the '90s Bulls that they're watching. They get really into it. It's going to be fun. It's going to be fun.

I bet on the links a month ago, and I still feel good about it. Five to one.

If he's to call, you're 42 points.

The links are legit good.

They're really good, and they have a great coach.

Well, since you went on paternity leave, we launched a Ringer WMBA podcast. So when you come back, you have a place to get off your takes with Cyril.

I can't wait. With Cyril, I can't wait. Cyril, have me on the show. This is my last show, though. I'll see you guys on top of the year.

It's my last show. Yeah, no. We had to do this. This was the one thing. How's it going with the little homie?

Little homie's doing good. He's a beast. He's eating us out of a house and home. I haven't gotten sleep. It's good to see somebody outside of this house for the first time in weeks.

Welcome to Dad Club, by the way.

I'm here.

I'm really here. As I told you, really, really enjoy those first 15 years because we literally don't either of our kids anymore. They're not even 20 yet. So it goes fast.

That's what I heard. I'm excited. I'm trying to get this Raiders propaganda. I'm done with the A's. I can't believe I'm wearing this hat right now, but I'm going to try to see if you'll be a Riders fan. Well, it's the last thing.

It's a fair while.

It's all I got is him being a Riders fan. That's all I have. We'll see.

All right, Logan Murdoch, we'll see you in 2025. Thanks for popping on. We appreciate it. Good to see your face.

Good to see you, too. Thanks, man. Thanks, Kyle.

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Zack Lo, who worked with us at Grantland, who I think was the best all-around basketball person who did this in the NBA, was let go by ESPN today. It was a layoff. It was another ESPN layoff. There's been a few of these. It's not like I've done a podcast every time, and I'm friends with Zack. But it just felt like there's a moment here with ESPN that I felt like we should hit, and you agreed, and we're just going to talk about it. So what was your reaction when you heard?

The first reaction was, wait a second, you just renewed the NBA rights for two and a half billion dollars, and then you laid off the best NBA writer in America in the same breath, that really happened? A week and change after the biggest NBA newsbreaker in America left the network. And that was the first reaction. And then The second reaction is something you and I've said over the years as we've seen these layoffs and people walk out the door of Bristol is, if ESPN doesn't have room for Zack Lo, who does ESPN have room for?

And who do they want in the room?

It's the question, isn't it?

It's clearly a strategy, and they clearly value certain things. I think everybody gets mad anytime something like this happens, and I get But to me, it's more interesting what the strategy is and what they're thinking and where Zack fit into that. Because obviously, and they had an issue with this 10 years ago when I was there. They didn't know how to monetize podcasts. They didn't know how to get real value from them. Zack's biggest value is as a writer and a podcaster and a steward of the game and also somebody who can go on TV and be good. But it seems like what they value now is people who can do TV hits first and foremost, and hits that you can cut into 70 to 90 second videos that can go on their website or go on YouTube. The better the headline is for those hits, that seems to be where the value is. I'm not besmirching some of the people that do that stuff. I'm just saying that seems to be how they value it. It's either that or the giant names, which you've covered many times in Ringer Pieces, like getting the best possible people to a football game.

Spending money in the high-end talent, I'm sure they're going to bring back Steven A. Smith. But I think that's what they're becoming. I think what's so fascinating to me is that it's the opposite of where they were 10 years ago when they seemed to try to want to be everything, but also really have, I guess for lack of a better word, a soul. I'm not sure what the soul is going to be if this is what your strategy is. That's my big take.

First of all, we should congratulate Zack Zack for inaugurating a whole new era of television where you would come on television in your sweats. Remember, he was doing that even before COVID. It would be a TV hit and everybody be in their suits and we'd see Zack from his apartment and you'd be like, Look at that. That guy looks slightly different from what I'm used to seeing on TV. Now that's what we all do on Zoom. I completely agree with you. I think the strategy is fascinating because ESPN, like every other media company in America, is walking across this bridge from the world of cable television to the world of streaming and over the top. And they're making a decision who's coming over the bridge with us. Who do we want to be part of this new world? And they've picked a couple of big guys, the Steven A's and the Pat McAfee's. They've picked a ton of sports rights, which they've done a good job signing up. But the interesting question to me is this all feels very TV oriented to me. It feels like we're getting people to do these TV hits, even though we're admitting we're not really a TV company anymore.

If Zack's value, if you're saying, well, we can't see the value of him as a TV guy cutting up those 60 second clips that now dominate the website. But isn't there money to be made with a Zack Lo NBA podcast?

Apparently not. If VSP is selling it, I just find that weird. But listen, it's not their business. What you've seen from a lot of the stuff they've been doing the last five years is outsourcing stuff. Omaha is producing producing more and more shows for them. It's insane. Why aren't you producing your own shows? Why are you constantly... Connor left and his company does a bunch of 30 for 30s and produces the espies for them. It's like, Why aren't you guys doing this? On the one hand, they're outsourcing a bunch of stuff. Then as concurrently, they seem like they're thrown away, at least the podcast piece of everything. They have podcasts, they have a bunch of them, but it doesn't seem like they care because If they cared, they would have kept Zack. When you talk about this new world that they're entering, the world is sports rights and just enough people to seem like you're still the biggest. Is that what it is?

It's totally flipped, hasn't it? Because remember, old ESPN, they didn't really have the games you wanted to watch, but they had the people you wanted to listen to. And new ESPN now has all the games you want to watch. They have the Super Bowl in 2027. They have the NBA Finals. They have all these huge packages, but they don't really have the people that you want to hear talk about the games a lot of the time. Still plenty of good people there. I don't want to write everybody off. By the way, how many times have we been playing that game, you and I, over the last 10 years, where we say, You know what? At least ESPN has, and then we fill in the blank with somebody everybody likes.

It's the Dats, Dats, Dats. Yeah.

At least they still have Mina. At least they still have Wickersham. And Zack was on that list before today. And that list is getting really, really small.

What's the point of having hardcore feature journalism at this point anymore? So you're going to dabble on that every once in a while, but not always have it, or you're going to have some of it, or you're going to have a new version of it. That's another thing. My point is, I don't understand the strategy. I feel like I've always understood, at least somewhat, what they're doing. And now it seems like their strategy is five different things happening at the same time because now they're on the gambling side, too. They got in super late on that, probably four years too late. Doesn't seem like they're in on podcast the same way. Seems like they're really in on the YouTube, TikTok, all that social stuff. That seems to be the thing they point to when they talk about success things. They also talk about how the ratings are up, but we all know the ratings are up because they started counting bar TVs and airport TVs and things like that. The ratings aren't actually up. It's just the way they count the ratings, it's more people. But I do wonder, to me, the next one is PTI.

What happens with that show? Because we're seeing a certain shift toward a certain type of content. Where does PTI and two old guys that are beloved and institutions at the place who are one of a kind, and the show is always the best when Will Bohn and Cornizer on it, where do those guys fit going forward? And this is the first time I wouldn't be surprised. They're just like, Yeah, we got rid of Will Bohn and Cornizer.

Two guys that were grandfathered in, no offense to Mike and Tony, from another age of television. But to me, the whole daytime ESPN is a real question, right? Because in the cable TV universe, what did you do? You just turned on ESPN. And for a lot of it, it was just on all day. So that floated a certain programming during the day. Is that going to exist? When we get in a streaming world, at four in the afternoon, when there's not a game on it, you just say, I just want to put ESPN on to be the background noise. So I think you're right. That show doesn't fit in with what the Pitaro regime vision of ESPN has been. But I also just think ESPN is probably just changing in a very, very fundamental way. And I don't know how much daytime ESPN there's going to be because that's really one of the only things left, besides around the Horn.

Well, we haven't seen streaming sports stuff, just talking head stuff work for people like, I will go to Peacock and watch this. I will go to Paramount and watch... People aren't doing that. Oh, Max has... They don't. But People are in the habit, maybe this is older people and maybe it's not people 25 and under of, Oh, I'm just going to put ESPN on. I wonder if maybe that's starting to fade, too. So it just feels like it's getting louder and more distinct. But on the other hand, they're still taking swings. They're spending more money in the ManiCast, right? They took a bunch of swings with their NBA coverage. None of them worked. They went and they spent money on Doc Rivers. They doubled down on JJ. They were paying Woj as much money as anybody. But now you think the last year, just NBA in general, the last year, they lose Doc, they lose JJ. They lose their lead color analyst twice after firing Van Cundy. Woj is just gone. Now, Zack Lowe is gone. It's your brain spinning. Now, I guess what we're going to get, and I like Steven A, so this is not a slight of Steven A, and I really think he's a good guy, but it feels like they're moving toward, It's a Knicks playoff game.

Here's Steven A. 'S entrance. And that's what they think people want. And I don't think they're right.

No. How did that go over with Jason Kelsi during the Eagles game the other day? People were just like, I don't want this.

This is too much. They were trying so hard. Yeah. And I like Jason and Kelsey, but I didn't like the way they used them. Then he stayed in the booth, and it's all of a sudden, Akeman's gone from a game that was really good because as soon as somebody's in a booth, you know this, they have to interview him. And Jason, nobody knows better than you that that push-push, you just have to figure out ways to work the guy in. It's like, Fucking Akeman are the best announcing team we have. What are you guys doing?

Can we talk about the center some more? This is great. Great content. Keep going with this. I want to come back to your idea about the soul of ESPN because I think that is a really interesting question, because when you write stuff like this or say stuff like this, ESPN will come back. But did you see the rights package we just signed? Did you see how we got the entire SEC, the entire college football playoff? Man, they have lost so many things about ESPN that made it unique over the last decade and plus. I put a list together a couple of years ago when we did a piece about ESPN Layoffs, one of the many stories I read about it. Dude, when you just look at the list, Simmons, Rosillo, the Grantland Gang. Okay, that's inside the house here. Michael Jamel, Dan Lebitard, Keith Oberman, Wesley Morris, Matthew Berry, Mark Stein, Chad Ford. You want to keep going? Chris Felica, Tom Adam Rinaldi, Mike... Did I say Tarek already? Adam Amin, Jason Benetti. I mean, like Bomani, both Mike Gholix. I could go on and on and on. Just think- Both of them.

Three Mike Golex. I think there's four Mike Golex.

Several, many Mike Golex. Just think of how many people walked out the door? And again, your mileage may vary on some of those people, and I totally understand that. But it's like people have fewer entry points to get into ESPN. That was part of the cool thing about old ESPN. You could like this and not like this, but you'd still be in the ESPN mothership because you're like, I like Bill. I like Rosillo. I like this. I like Mike and Mike in the morning. This is my entry point. Those people are all gone.

Right. Well, you know what else was interesting about it is it seems like there's a certain... Granted, Twitter is Twitter. But I did notice Zack was trending today, but it also said he was trending with Kendrick Perkins. That was one of the interesting topics of this, right? Is that people were looking at this like, ESPN is choosing this Kendrick Perkins' direction of their basketball coverage over the Zack Loe direction. I don't even know. I mean, look, there's a million reasons why something like this can happen. But I don't necessarily blame Kendrick for some of the stuff he says or the way he's trying to provoke people because they're telling him to do that. If you're being produced a certain way, if you're being incentivized a certain way, and you're on TV and you want to gain more and more whatever power, you want to be on TV more, you want to make more money, you're going to do what the people are like, That was great. I loved what you said about how Jason Tatum is in an alpha. Just stare in the camera and do that again for 90 seconds. And that's just the way this shit's going to So there's really for the people that bitch about it, just don't watch.

That's really the only way any of this stuff is going to change. If you don't like this direction, wherever we're going, you don't have to watch it. I don't watch this stuff in the morning anymore. Do you? No. Are you watching their morning shows?

I'm so little. I mean, so little. And I only see the clips, and then it's that 45 second clip you're talking about. Perk goes off on Jason Tatum. I'm like, okay. But look, you're right. It's not a one for one trade. It's not like they say, okay, we can either pick Perk or we can pick Zack, and only one of them can stay. I don't think it quite works like that. But it's not not that either. Because just like you said, they figured out what they want, right? Some of those people are good. Orlowski, people like that. But we want that guy. He can give us 45 seconds, really good meaty seconds, and then we're going to put that on the website. That's going to be the new article for us. Other articles?

Right now, there's a video, Perk. Nobody is scared of the Celtics with a picture of Perk and Jason Tatum. It's like, what? Nobody's scared of the Celtics? Click. That's where we're going now. I don't know. Maybe we're the older people now who are nostalgic for some era that's just gone anyway. But I do feel like, especially when we were there 10 years ago. They did care about the big picture of some of this stuff, and now it seems like they intermittently care.

See, I don't feel like an old guy on this because you and I being old guys be like, Where's the original edition of the Sports Reporters? When it had the guys from the Chicago Tribune, that's what I wanted to see. We're talking about Zack freaking low, man. If you want to reach young basketball fans, isn't that one of the ways to do it?

Yeah, and also somebody that was a real A thought leader and inspiration to a whole generation of people, and also a fucking awesome guy. We worked with him. The guy gives a shit, he puts in his time. He's not a look at me, look at me. He's a really generous teammate. There's just so many good things that come with working with that guy that if you don't appreciate that, that's nuts. I just don't understand that. But part of me wonders, the evil side of me wonders, do they do this knowing somebody else is going to pick them up and they're just off the hook? It's almost like when baseball teams leave their right field, they're unprotected on the waiver wire knowing somebody might actually claim them. The timing of this is weird. He was the only guy that they laid off right before this whole end of the quarter thing. Nobody else was in it. They're back channeling and telling people, no, no, this is part of the RG3 Sam It is? Why didn't you do this two months ago then? Yeah. You're doing it right for the NBA season? He was on NBA today.

He did a podcast with JJ Redick yesterday. So what are you doing?

It's funny to your point. I had somebody text me today. It's not a I had time to be an NBA media free agent right now, given what's happening with all the rights. There are people out there in a year who might going to want people.

I've heard that, but look at Amazon's NFL coverage. There's no reporter on that stuff. They just have ex players and a host.

This is Albert, we're erasure, Bill.

You know what I mean? It's not like there's going to be 40 jobs. It's not like they're going to have some whole universe built around reporting stuff. I don't know. I wish I could explain ESPN, and I just can't. The gambling thing, I think, was the first sign that maybe they were just outright missing on stuff. When you just have to keep doing this over and over again and rebooting who you are and what you're trying to be, now they pin themselves in a position with Steve and A, where they basically have to keep them. Oh, absolutely. He can name his price.

He's coming across the bridge. I mean, like I said, when we're talking about people who are going to be part of the new ESPN, Steve and A is part of it.

Yeah, that has to be. But there's also a little bit of a lawlessness that as somebody who was suspended for three weeks and suspended on Twitter a couple of times. Wait, what? I look back on some of the stuff I did. It wasn't one Kent as bad as some of the stuff that people are doing now. Ryan Clarke, openly challenging them about his extension. Do they have bosses? What's happening?

But this is the thing, right? It's the players' coach here of ESPN, too, where the people we pick, we pick them, and we just let them do what they want.

We're not worried about-Including if they want to have a sex tape on Instagram. That's fine. I'll look the other way in that one. Is it going to be a first take Tuesday? Okay, cool.

We're good.

Oh, my God.

Uncle was getting it on. I just don't understand it. Who's in charge? What are you trying to do?

Yeah. I mean, that's what I say. And again, like I said, every time I say these words, and we've had some moments here, I believe I had a column called ESPN's Year From Hell a little bit earlier in 2024. Look at the sign. Just sign the sports rights. Just resign the college, got the whole college football playoff. That's what ESPN is now, right? It's the games you want to see. If you're looking for a strategy, the strategy is the games you want to see, a handful of guys who host talk shows, and we'll figure out the rest.

Well, I wonder if it's almost like what happened with movies in the 2000s. They're like, Let's just do franchises. Instead of spending money on these 10 movies and hoping one of them hits, let's just go get a fucking DC comics thing going and we'll make Lethal Weapon 7, and we'll just do some sequels and lets everybody turn our brains off and not try to make good stuff. It is funny. The ESPN's version of that is sports rights. Hey, we have all the sports rights. It doesn't really matter who's announcing them except for football. And it doesn't really matter what the shows are around them because people are going to watch the games anyway, and we're fine.

Yeah. I do come back to, you just spent so much money on the NBA. So the NBA is one of your franchises. That's one of your Marvel franchises that he has ESPN. So don't you want the best people around it, even if they're not Mike Breen? Surely you want other people around their title.

Yeah, but they just had the most rollercoastery, rocky, behind the scenes year ever covering the league last year, right? Did it ultimately matter? People are still walking. They're like, I'm not watching game four tonight. There's too much chaos at ESPN. People don't care. Ultimately, they could have... Jj is leaving and they have Woj reporting on it. And it's this whole basically internally created soap opera around the Laker job that they're just getting clicks out of. And it was annoying, but it didn't stop people from watching the finals.

Now you're sounding like the ESPN management because you're going, Oh, well, it doesn't matter. Just as long as we have the game.

I'm just trying to figure out what they're thinking. Yeah, I think that's what they're thinking. It's like, Guess what? People are going to watch sports and the UFC deal is going to come up. We're going to redo that. We're going to have UFC. We're going to have NBA, and we have college football, and we have WMBA now, which is growing big time, and on and on and on. And we have sports all the time, and that's why people come. And we've done a million research models on this, and this is what people want. Where they missed was the ESPN back because they just got in too late. They have no chance with that.

I completely agree. But you know what? This sucks because it's Zack. And Zack's great. So it just sucks. It's not fun. And it's not... Again, your soul I just got to keep coming back to that word because you just look at ESPN like, I want to visit ESPN a little bit less today. It's not going to die. Espn is not over. There's no need to go in for the full think piece treatment here, but it's a little worse today, maybe a lot worse without him.

What do people say? Because you talk to everybody and you've been at the forefront of smartly writing about sports media and not going crazy and not getting caught into like, I have this scoop, but just trying to write big picture takes about where things are going and where things are leaning and where things are moving and what little trends are happening and trying to explain why this happened, incorporating the history of things. When people talk to you about ESPN, what are the most common things they ask you?

It's interesting because before, I think 10 years ago and certainly 15 years ago, it felt like the ultimate destination. And it especially became in the 2010s, the ultimate destination for sports writers, not just for people who wanted to be the next sports center anchor, which was a funny flip. Espn became the worldwide leader in sports writing for a pretty long patch there. And you and I were both a part of that. You much, obviously much more than me. But you know what's funny is when I talk to people now, very few of them talk about ESPN as a place they aspire to work at. And it's not that they think ESPN is bad. I just don't think they think that's attainable anymore. They just don't see that as a logical pathway. Because, again, if you don't have room for Zack, do you have room for me? It just doesn't compute. So I think for a certain type of person, it's just not even on the bingo card anymore as a place they would work.

The other piece of it, and we'll see if Shams is a part of this, whether they want to stay in the information business in the post-Woj era. And some people in my life were like, Woj, maybe he knew he was getting laid off and they gave him a heads up, and he got That's not what happened. I think he was genuinely... There's no conspiracy theory on Woj. I think he was burned out, and I think he just wanted to do the St. Bonnie's thing, felt like he made enough money. But this information culture that they've created, where all that mattered was getting those scoops, which you and I never really understood. And I'll be interested to see if they break away from that or not. I think the big scoops matter. If you know somebody is getting traded, like a major player is getting traded. If you know a team is getting sold, if you know somebody is going to retire, But when it comes down to Isaac O'Coro, who has signed a three or 38 million dollar extension negotiated by Brian Curtis of Curtis Agent Media. No, that's where you lose me. So I wonder, are they going to double down on this information there or maybe start shifting away from that, too?

My guess would be they'll start shifting away.

Maybe. Can you think they can unhook themselves from the machine that they hook themselves up to with Woj and Schefter and Jeff and everybody else?

What's the upside of it? So the upside is you're not being embarrassed that other people are getting the scoops, right? But I mean, I'm not ashamed to admit, at The Ringer, we've never cared about that stuff because our theory was always, Well, the stuff will come out and then we'll react to it. We want to have the best, this happened, what do you think? People, we don't really care if we have the people who are burning the phone lines trying to break information. I guess from an ESPN standpoint, I know it was important to have Wosh. On the other hand, a lot of the stuff was his Twitter feed, which isn't on ESPN, and they're not really able to monetize in any way. Now, he can give them a heads up, stuff's coming. He can do a Monday morning, I'm about to do this, nobody has it, get ready. For the most part, unless it's a giant I don't really see the upside. I don't personally get it. What do you think?

I never have. I've never seen it other than what you mentioned, which is having the name of a rival media company on the bottom line, where you have to credit them when they break something, which is obviously what drove them.

Yahoo's agent Wojnarowski reports, dot, dot, dot.

Which completely drove them bonkers when they had to do that. But I had fantasy on Pressbox last week, and we were talking about this, having the same conversation. He's like, I don't get it. Not only Why do you necessarily want that? Why do you want somebody at that price point that you have to pay them to be the ultimate insider? Because even if it's Shams coming over, that's going to be a lot of money. I mean, that's millions of dollars, right? That's what the price to get him is going to be. So here's the time in the company, when it's tight, when you're trying to cut talent salaries, do you want that much money just to have the pride of not having it on the bottom line? Is that it? Because you're going to do- I think that's That's literally it.

I don't think there's another reason. I think it's about if we're supposed to be the worldwide leader, how do we not have this stuff? But I think what happened to Woj's career the last 15 years is pretty informative. From 2010 to 2014, he was a really fearless basketball journalist. He operated a lot like how Matt Belny is writing his Hollywood column now for Puck. He was really well-sourced, but he also didn't play I've ever seen a favor trade, didn't do any of that stuff. Within 10 years, favor trading was the business. I honestly feel like that was part of the reason he probably got out, because I think in your DNA, if you want to be a reporter and you want to be fearless to shift the other way, where now everything is a favor trade. I don't know how you can do that for that long.

It's funny. I talked to Shad about this the other day, but the amazing thing about Insiders to me is also you can never say, I don't know. When When something breaks or when there's something going on, you can never come on television and be like, I don't know the answer to the question. We know as journalists, even if we think we have sources, there are times when you just don't know. You really don't.

I can say there's a lot of times.

A lot of times, right? But there's this idea that not only do you have to, I can't take my phone in the shower, whatever that thing you were laughing about the other day was, but you just can't say, I don't know, because then all the magic disappears. You're not the Almighty inside insider anymore. What? You don't know? You don't know what's about to happen? And to me, that's always just like, what? Just a strange existence for anybody to be in, much less a journalist.

Part of me is thinking, if this does end, There are some benefits. We could watch an NBA or NFL draft and not have every pick spoiled. We could have TV pregame shows where we don't have to awkwardly shoehorn the insider to be like, I am I'm wondering that Memphis is very interested in center. We could, I don't know, just talk about other stuff. But the big picture point, we're heading in 25 with this new streaming only ESPN thing, and it just feels like this is like the Zack Lo moment feels like something we'll remember where we're like, remember ESPN was creeping this way, and then they laid off Zack, and then they went this way. I think I see that, and it It feels like you do, too, which is why we wanted to do this segment.

I do. It feels important, right? Even if, again, that whole list I just gave you of people that have walked out the door, for some reason this one hits a little bit differently. It does. And maybe it is. Maybe it's the beginning of something. Maybe we'll look back and we look at ESPN 2030, where holograms are doing SportsCenter and the AI write-ups have gone way beyond what they're doing now, that this will be a moment. I totally can feel that.

Well, they have some good stuff going still. They still have all the rights, which is really the only thing that matters. They whift on ESPN radio. It seems like they've whift on the podcast business. But the YouTube and the TikTok and the Snapchat and you name any thing that has risen over the last 12 years, they're in there in the best possible ways. Maybe that's their business, and maybe people like us just don't see it. They obviously see some I'm not going to start a vision that's different than, I think, what we see. Maybe we're the dinosaurs.

Like I said, I feel like the old guy with you sometimes. I don't feel like the old guy right now. Defending Zack Lo doesn't make me feel old. That makes me feel young if anything.

How about Skip Bayliss, unemployed? That's got to make you feel old.

Did I put his name on the list of people who walked out the door the last 10 years? No, that's another one.

There's another one. The end of the Skip Bayliss career. Now, that's-Oh, my God.

My first guy when I was a kid, man, I'm going to tell you.

That would have been a great eight-episode podcast series that only seven people would have loved, the rise, rise, and whatever of Skip Bayliss. But going into those Dallas Cowboys years.

Oh, my God.

He wrote three Cowboys books in five years.

I have all of them, and so do you. They're really good.

Yeah, they're actually really good books. They got a bad rap. It was just that era where you could just get crazy inside had access with the football team, or you didn't know how true some of the access was, but that's what made it fun to read.

He told me one time when the Cowboys did their first Super Bowl in the Jerry Jimmy era, he had breakfast with Jerry Jones the day of the Super Bowl. Just think about that now at the hotel. That's crazy. Yeah, that happened.

Are you worried about the Cowboys?

Hell, yes. Are you kidding? I'm actually not worried, resigned.

We're taping this before the Giants game. They might beat the Giants like 45 to 10 today.

I'm the opposite of Cousins Sal, where he's having the flicker of hope, Keep Hope Alive. I'm just resigned. I'm out. I just think it's done. I know. I still think there's a nine-win slip into the playoff scenario, but that's about all I'm hopeful for.

By the way, I had a nitpick. You and Fentasy did your top campaign movies on your pod. Dave is not a campaign movie. Dave's being an office movie. That's fucking cheating. There was no campaign in Dave.

C. C. Sean Fentasy.

Well, that's just A, lazy, and B, he cheated, which is par for the course of that guy. He's just going to try to win. He's going to try to win with however he does it. Dave. Where's the campaign in Dave? Did I miss it? Was it a deleted scene? He's just in office. What the fuck is he doing? Come on, Fennacy. Kurt, it's good to see you.

It's good to see you, too, Bill.

All right, we're taping this on a Thursday afternoon. We didn't want to wait for that stupid Giants Cowboys game and do it after because that game's dumb. Who cares? Joe House is here. He has a quarterback. Jaden Daniels is in his life as a superstar in waiting. House is so excited. If you can't see on the video, he's in a hotel room. He just ran in a hotel room. Is it just massages every day? What's going on? You just need to be rubbed?

I just wanted to be close to the offensive greatness. I have the offensive greatness of Jordan Daniel.

Jaden Jails.

Jaden Daniels in my life. I know his name. I am on the campus of James Madison University at the moment because I wanted to be close to the former Holy Cross coach. What's his name?

Bob Chesney.

Bob Chesney. He dropped 70 on North Carolina last week.

Yeah. Why did we bet on that?

We've got nothing but offensive explosions surrounding us. There were some offensive explosions in my living room Monday Night, let there be no doubt.

Yeah. What were the techs like? You haven't had a lot of, Oh, my God, you must be so happy, football techs in the last 20 years.

They're all of the same kind, which is not believing it, right? We had RG3, which was an incredible run in 2012, all the way up until Daniel Snyder and his cheap ways put an end to RG3's career on that field. Then we did have a minute with Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins did take the Washington team to the playoffs in 2015. I went to the game. Congrats.

Who can forget?

Who can forget. But there was a minute there.

People are still talking about that.

This is a thing where we got the right guy for the right situation at the right time. It happens so rarely in Washington, so it's wonderful.

I actually had dinner with two Washington fans on Tuesday night, and they were just so excited because it wasn't just a performance. There's been pieces about Daniels where the teammates, the way they're talking, I love this stuff. This is my jam. The teammates being like, he's him. When we're following Jaden, this is the guy. When the guys on the team just start raving like that to reporters, you know something good is happening.

I'm getting the same chill that I had Monday night because I did spend hours with all of the breakdowns of that, the whole Internet. Thank God, it was the amazing convergence of events for that. And I'll stop in a second. It was a Monday night football game, the biggest stage. And The Bills beat the crap out of the Jags, so nobody was watching it. Everybody flipped right over to Washington. And that game was exciting because there was scoring on every goddamn possession. And so the breakdown of the tape afterwards is like, when you go slow and watch the decisions he's making, when you go slow and watch the poise he's showing in the face of oncoming rushes, that's the stuff that put your hair up properly.

Well, one of the games we're looking at is for... Because we're going to do a million dollar pick, and we did well last week, and we'll get to that. But Cards Washington. Cards are favored by minus three and a half in Arizona, and the Cardinals are a team that I've really liked. They're one and two, but both losses were good losses. They really hung with Buffalo. They really hung with Detroit. This is the worst possible classic stereotypical bad spot for Washington. Coming off a late Monday night football game, everyone's super excited about how they did. So they're riding high. Congratulations all week. Short week, cross country, and they have to play a team that has good offense. And guess what? Guess who doesn't have good defense? Washington. The stats are just awful. They're 32nd on third down, their 30th on first down, 31st against the pass, 28th against the sacks.

If you have that defense, you better score on every offensive possession. You better not punt because if you give the other team the ball, they're probably going to score.

Right. And the bangles, all they did wrong was just not score a countdown every time they had the ball, which they almost did.

Like, literally one miss field goal. It was a five-point game, but really, it was They had one miss field goal on one of those possessions.

Yeah, so no echo in this game, but McBride is questionable. But you guys were running the ball. Washington has the fifth best run offense right now, seventh yards per play, fifth on first down. Good stuff was happening. The defense is bad. But I'm looking at that one, and I think we both like the over, and especially if we adjust it. Are you allowed to bet against Washington a million dollar pick? Because I'm going to offer you Arizona money line over 43.5, and that's minus 101 on Fandil.

No, I think I'm a sober realist. For me, we got the validation for the whole year for the third game of the season. All I hope for with this Washington team is to hit the over of six and a half wins. That's the only thing that I really invested in. I'm fine. I bet on Tampa in week one. I don't I don't think that there's anything wrong with trying to make money. The money is still green.

What do you think about that over 43 and a half with the Arizona money line?

Yeah, I do like that because one of my favorite bets from that game is Washington over 23 and a half. As its team total.

So it's basically the same bet to some degree because they probably got to score 24 to win that. I like this Cardinal's team. I was really impressed. I said it on Sunday. I was really impressed by their two losses. I thought they hung around I don't think their defense is very good, and they'll probably give up points. I wanted to do the minus three and a half, but the cheap countdown potential of the commanders, the Seawards, the Commies. What are people calling them, the Commies?

I don't know. No, Nobody calls them the Commies. I don't want to say it. What do people call them?

Washington? They call them the Commanders. They call them the Commanders.

Doesn't Kevin Durant call them the Manders?

The Manders?

I think he does. I think that's what Katie calls them.

That's pretty I don't mind that. All right, that's one I'm giving you a couple that I had flagged as maybe's.

I'm not going to talk you out of that. The only thing with that is, Arizona, you expect them to score quickly. That's why the over is the angle. But I don't want to mess with the 50 and a half. I like it down in the lower 40s.

43 and a half is nice. 44 points is 24 to 20, and you're hitting it. Yeah. Next one I was on the fence with, and I think you like this more than me, but the Vikings at Green Bay, Vikings plus three. I think the reason this is a stay away from me is I see both sides on it. But the case for the Vikes, which I think you and I both, that was our blink test of like, the Vikes, the way they played the last couple of weeks. I mean, no three, no, but the last two weeks were just awesome, awesome wins. Last week was an absolute ass-kicking in Houston. There's an Aaron Jones Fuck You game.

Yes, there is.

Possibly going back to Lambo. Like that. I'm circling.

He's a bad Mfer.

There's the Jordan Love coming back off of a knee injury that he's probably not 100% on. Brian Flores just blitzing the shit out of him. The Minnesota stats are nuts. They're first in sac, second in QB hits, first in QB hurries, first in tackle losses. They're also the most confusing defense when you're watching on TV. They're showing this, they're showing that. This guy's up, this guy's hopping back. There's a lot going on. My concern would be if I'm back in Green Bay, this is a lot for love to first came back. Then on the other piece of that, Green Bay beat Tennessee and Indianapolis. Congratulations.

I mean, both of those were with Malik Willis. I want to count this as this possibility. It wouldn't shock me if Willis starts this game and plays the whole game. If they're doing the Rope-A-Dope with love, right? Oh, interesting. They want to make Floris try and prepare. And Floris has the experience, right? They played Green Bay twice. It's a division game, but two different styles of quarterbacking entirely, two different types of threats. Just adding that onto the Minnesota plate because I think it's a dead-even coaching matchup.

Yeah, it's good. I mean, these are probably two of the best four teams in the NFC. Green Bay is banged up. I didn't like that part. So here's the flip side. Sam Darnold on the road. There's a lot of Sam Darnold excitement right now. He started 3-0 in Carolina. This could be Sam Darnold's Can Everyone Settle Down? I'm Sam Darnold game. Love killed Minnesota last year. He killed all this butt shit. He's actually good against it if he's healthy. I think that's why this is ultimately a stay away from me, because I remember having Minnesota in that game last year with Josh Dobbs, and Love just murdered them. I can't get that out of my head. Sometimes the right defense is just a nice matchup for a QB. Something about... Could we talk ourselves into a Vikings tease? We could. Are there better tease options? We'll get to that. But Vikings plus three, I don't know. The line feels right. Ultimately, it might be a stay away from me. How about you?

Yeah, I'm on the side of the Vikings, but I understand all of your hesitation and reservation. The real determining factor for me is the Green Bay quarterback situation, because they are either going to have a Jordan Love return, which is a tough situation, tough circumstance for all the reasons used with the... Or it's going to be Willis up against Brian Floris, who give him the time to properly prepare for it.

That I know I don't like. I'm going to raise my hands and congrats to Malik Willis. But that one I don't like because when you're watching that weird packers offense they had the last two weeks, one of the things... The teams they played I just didn't have the person to do this, but just move everyone up and just attack the moment the ball snap because everything is going to be around the line of scrimage. I don't like their chances against Minnesota because that's what Minnesota does, and that's what they are. Another thing with the packers is I know this is a must-win game for the Vikings, but it's really not. They could lose this and it's fine. They have some injuries. It is Green Bay. It's division games. It'd be three and one through four. I know it's the vision game, but they'll We'll get it. I know they want to win, but this isn't... Whereas if you're the packers and love's coming back, you need this one. Anyway, they'd be two and two, and they would have squandered their Minnesota home game. So not awesome. Next one. You have more Falcon-Saintz thoughts than I do.

Falcon are now minus two and a half at home against the Saints. This feels like a sucker line to me. Oh.

Why?

So we're just off the now because they couldn't block Jalen Carter? We're out?

Well, it wasn't just simply not blocking Jalen Carter. It was a blueprint of how to slow that offense down, a blueprint of how to take the run away. And they lost their center in that game. I mean, Jalen Carter, part of that, Jalen Carter's success had to do with the injury to the Saints Pro Bowl center.

The O-line is not the same.

Right.

Guess who also lost two offensive linemen last week? The Falcons.

True story. I know. They're both questionable at the moment. I don't know if they've been declared formally out. I just want to give props to Atlanta because they have impressed me. I mean, we were properly skeptical at the beginning of the season with them against Pittsburgh. We cashed that. That was a nice situation for us with Pittsburgh. Had them on the money line. And then what they showed against the Eagles and the Chiefs, who has played that schedule in the first three weeks? And they were right. They had two one-score losses. A one-score A one-score loss to the Steelers and a one-score loss to the Chiefs.

The Steelers was a legit loss. They didn't deserve to win that game. No, for sure. Chiefs, they should have won.

Well, it was past interference in the end zone, ball on the one, then you don't have to mess around with all the shenanigan silliness of figuring out fourth down plays. But I just think Atlanta, having seen that Philadelphia blueprint, we haven't really seen the Atlanta defense with the new personnel in full force. So I just think it's It's a decent matchup for them. I like Atlanta, laying the points.

How about this? I hate myself if I bet either team, and it's a stay away. What is the I'd hate myself either way game? If you're like, I'm going to take the Saints, and then car sucks again. You're like, I hate myself. How I felt on Monday night with Trevor Lawrence, where it's just self-loathing, the self-loathing bet of the week.

There are some self-loathing bets on this board. I don't think this one is it, but we don't have to bet it. I'm just telling you my preference. I like it.

I got to say there's I'm with you. I'm leaning to where you're leaning, but I feel like there's too many injuries on both sides. That's fine. This division makes me nervous. Sure. How about this? Maybe you're just better off never betting on a division matchup in the NFC South. Maybe that should be added to the gambling manifest. Just stay away.

We got to be careful. No upside. You're 30 wins in trouble.

Well, there's only going to be one win out of this one.

Yes, true story.

All right. I'm leaning toward a stay away for that one. Fine, fine, fine. Leaning, I did say. Here's one I really need you to talk me out of before something bad happens. Maybe you won't be able to. The bears who are 0 and 3 and They're laying three points to the Rams. I'm looking at this going, Kind of like the bears. They're 32nd yards per play. They're 28th in QB hurries. They're 29th in sacs. But on the flip side, the Rams are 32nd in yards per play. They're 31st in QB hits, which is something that Chicago defense is, they've at least shown that. They have no Cup, no Nekua. They're not top 14, basically in anything offensively but passing yards. I just wonder, there's a world last week where they don't get that fake punt against the Niners, and the Niners just beat them by 20. We're like, Holy shit, the Ram season's over. They stole it. They snuck it out. But now they're going to Chicago. They're outdoors. The bears are own three.

But the bears-No, the bears are one and two. They were throwing the ball last week. One and two, the bears.

You're right. The bears are one and two. Yeah. That's right.

They stole that game from Tennessee. Their defense won a game.

Right. But that almost felt like a loss. I was in my head. I was counting it as a loss because their offense was awful. Yeah, you're right. They're one and two. You're going to talk me out of this? Please do.

The bears are sticky poopoo. I mean, if you want to go get yourself in a position where you have to count on Coach Iberflus, who will be returned to his rightful place as a defensive coordinator or assistant soon enough. That is right around the corner. Caleb Williams, behind an offensive line, they improved their skill positions there in Chicago, but not the goddamn line. And that poor man continues to be at risk, and they can't do any of the things with their new toys on offense. They can't establish the run. That kid is running for his life on the pass. Now, here's the reason why- But did you see the stats when he wasn't under duress?

He was actually really good. There were great stats. If he just has three seconds, good stats.

Get him the three seconds. Now, this is the defense that you might be able to do that, this Rams team.

That's what I'm saying. The Rams, this is the defense. 31st and QB hits, 32nd in yards per play. So, yeah.

It's a disaster Monster of a secondary as well. The Rams, the bears do have the best unit in the game. So if you want to make a bet on which team has the best unit, it's the bear's defense. The bear's defense has won a football game already. They beat the Tennessee Titans. So that could be the roadmap, the blueprint.

You're talking yourself into this now.

I just don't want to have anything to do with it because then you have to look in the mirror and say to yourself, I laid points against Sean McVay and Matt Stafford with Fluce the Douche. I mean, you can't... Who's going to do that? You can't... That's one.

Fluce the Douche?

What rides with Fluce?

Well, here's one we're going to argue about. Oh, actually, no, let's do this one. Let's get this out of the way. The Raiders are minus one and a half against the Browns. I feel like there's not a lot of chances in our life left to fade Deshaun Watson with a bad offensive line. The Cleveland offense is bottom three in yards per play, QB hits, pass yards, sacks allowed, third down conversion. I think unofficially, most times, a receiver has looked just bummed out and like they wanted this season to end and they wish it was week 18. But this Raiders team was dog shit last week. Got carved up by Andy Dahl and got called out by their coach after the game. I just don't know how that... This feels like a perfect matchup for the Raiders. They're home, it's only one and a half. I saw I was leaning Raiders, but this violates my don't bet on two shitty teams rules.

Can we just say that and move on? I detest this game. We're not betting on Garner Minchou Dees Nuts. We're not doing that. Minchu, Deez Nuts No way.

Absolutely not. The Raiders can't run the ball.

I'm not sure that the Antonio pierce motivational tactic is necessarily going to work with everybody in that locker room. It feels like that locker room could be right Right on edge. That's a phenomenal game to stay away from.

I want to know in 2024, where, let's be honest, people are a little more sensitive than maybe they were 30 years ago. Just being blasted by your coach, is that a good strategy when your coach has done Jack shit? Then this guy just gets the machine gun out and just. I love that. He's going after everybody.

We're in a moment now where you can get Devante Adams. There's a solo camera on him for the entirety of games, we get these phenomenal shots of that poor guy sitting on the bench holding his head. He's poor, poor Devante.

It was like, Oh- Get him out of there. You didn't realize the Garner-Minschuh-Aiden-O'Nevano combo might not have been a good idea? Just realizing that now. All right, we'll stay away. Two bad teams, blah.

They do have a good defense. If Max Crosby and Christian Wilkins go crazy, they could beat the crap out of the grounds.

But that's the problem. Max Crosby is not healthy, and Miles Garrett isn't I don't know who's healthy. We're doing this on a Thursday.

Let's stay with it. Great point.

All right, now it's time to really argue because I love the lions this week, and I think you like the Seahawks a little bit. That line is now lions by three and a half at home against Seattle, who is three and a half and doing really well this season. It's a team that we've ridden a couple of times. I wish we rode them last week. That line is now, yeah, three and a half.

Let me hear your case.

Well, a couple of things. Walker is still not 100%. Good point. They're two best guys in the D-line, including Murphy. They're an awesome rookie. Both of those guys are hurt, and if they play, they're playing hurt, but they both have leg injuries, so that sounds great. Seattle played Denver in New England and the Skyler Thompson Miami group, and they barely beat New England. Honestly, New England should have beaten them. Denver hung around in Bo Nix's first game when he was absolutely terrible. He has been much better since. The Lions, I still don't feel like I've played an awesome game yet. We hit on them last week.

Really?

Well, just a lot of you see the pieces, but it's just they haven't. It's a meal with a bunch of awesome things on the table, but it doesn't all make sense Hook and ladder in the first half. Right. I think this is the week. It's a night game, and it's the Seattle team that's playing with house money a little bit at three and out, and you could talk yourself into, Oh, they'll be able to throw the ball. Mike McDonald, don't give him a week to plan it. I just think the lines are way better. And this line, I don't understand why it's not six if the Seahawks aren't healthy. On top of the fact that they can't block, and the lines defense The defensive line has been awesome. So I really like the lines, but I think you're leaning a little Seahawksy, right?

Well, and it all boils down to, ultimately, Jared Goff, who this season, if you look at, I have him right now in the advanced stats. His PFF grade, he's 29th thus far this season. His EPA numbers, expected points per play stuff is horrendous. It has him in the company of Garner Minchou and Jacobi Brissette and Bo Nix. That's where he is thus far this season.

And counter, maybe he's due for a good game.

Well, Here's the problem. They went up against a Tampa team that was missing its secondary. They went up against a Cardinals team that was supposed to be the worst defense in the NFL. And they started the season with the Rams, who was a defense in transition. We've seen that teams can score against the Rams. We watched what the Cardinals did, the Rams. Now, the Rams defense, yes, has injuries and all the rest of it. But 20 points in the regular time game against that Rams defense, 16 points against the injured Tampa defense, and then 20 points. All of the points for Detroit were in the first half. They didn't score in the second half. And that game swung on the inappropriately called back pick six that Jared Goff through. The refs took that away. That game was close, close. I mean, Khadamari threw a pick in the second half that kept the Cardinals from really making it dangerous. But I'm just not going to do the lions. That's all.

Counter. Detroit's run 151 plays in the last two weeks, and it's actually like law of averages. They should be scoring more points. They shouldn't be doing dumb shit. There's two bad golf passes. There's a fourth down play where they ran a stupid play. They've been dominating these games.

The counter to the counter.

I'm just in on the alliance.

No Ragnou. Ragnou is out.

You're all pro. No Ragnou at the center.

Yeah. Let's make this our argue game. We didn't have an argue game last week.

Yeah, but when we bet on the argue game. Well, I was going to throw this at you. Detroit first half, Detroit game, Parlay plus 100.

Okay. All right. So that I'm willing to do. That takes care of the cheap countdown from the Seahawks at the end.

They could just take the lead early. The Seahawks will be down 10. They'll all of a sudden lock it for 68 yards or Dike Metcalf, and then it'll be lines up by three, sweating it out. But We'll have first half in the game, and we're ready to go. They're at home. They should take a lead in the first half against fucking Seahawks.

Your point is right. This is an enormous step up for Seattle's defense after they got to play against Bo Nicks and Jacobi Brissette and Skyler Thompson, right? So there's real offensive weapons on this blind seat.

Those guys all suck. Although Bo Nicks has been pretty good because we're about to talk about- No, we had a great game against Tampa. Guess what? We're about to talk him right now because he's getting too many points against the Jets. The Jets are seven and a half point favorites at home against the Broncos. I don't really understand it because Denver's defense has been pretty good. I really feel like they put together a good game and a half. I said this last week on Million Dollar Picks. We were talking about how Denver really looked good against Pittsburgh in the second half of that game. Then last week, they just played great. They beat up Tampa. We probably should have taken the underdog money line on that because I think both of us like Denver. You like Denver, you like the Giants, both of those hit. So seven and a half just seems high because you can run on the Jets. Then you move the ball on the Jets in general. And even if this game is a double figures, I feel like they can get a cheap countdown late. I also like, they can throw Sertan on Garrett Wilson.

Yeah, that's the case for sure.

And we got Sean Payton against Big Shot Bob Sal.

The only reason... So the look ahead was seven and a half. So the numbers is consistent with what the look ahead is, and nothing changed over the course of the season. The problem is the situation for Denver. Second straight road game, rookie quarterback. The Jets have their second consecutive home game. They played three games in 11 days. They got that Thursday night game. They kicked us. Now, they got all the rest that they need in their home preparing for a rookie quarterback. We're going to see whether or not this Jets defense really can... They did perfectly fine against the one dimensional Patriots with those injuries.

No, you have to throw out the pass game. Okay, that's fine. Thursday night, the pats go down by 10. They can't beat anybody. Sure. It was just one of those games. No lessons learned from that one.

Okay, that's fine. I agree with you. Seven and a half is crazy. And also, this is the season. Hello. Five and a half points or more. The underdog now is 14 and two. The underdog has won 10 of those games outright. Ten and 6, the dogs are in those circumstances. So anytime you see anything over five and a half, it's like, better be careful because it's the way the season's been.

It's a fun pick, too. It's a fun one to root for You have the cheap countdown at the end, potentially. But I think Bo Nix is look... I thought he was really good last week in that Tampa game. I know Tampa's secondary is a disaster, and I get it, but he was really good in that game.

It's going to be fun. The part of the thing that you're hearing out of New York is that Hackett and Rogers really want to stick it to Payton. They really want to stick it to Sean. This is because they didn't get the chance last year when they played. And so they're going to try and run it up. But I like Sean Payton. He's the smartest guy in the room. I would have put all those guys together. It's fun. I don't want to make a big investment in it because I could see a scenario under which the Jets-We could also stay away. Yeah, that would be my inclination. But I like where you're going.

The thing I don't like about it from a Denver side is if I'm going to beat the Jets, I'm going to pound the run, right? And I'm just going to try to keep the ball and keep the ball away from Rodgers. But the Broncos haven't really run the ball that well.

No.

And as anyone knows, it was Javante Williams on their fantasy team. But all right. I won't put that in bold, but I'm going to include that on the list. So then Eagles Bucks, where, sadly, the hurricanes hitting as we're taping this, but we just learned over the years, those just become automatic stay aways, those games. I actually like that match up for the eagles, but we don't even know if they're going to be playing that game, and I hope everybody's safe there. But I think that's a cross-off for us, right?

Yeah, let's stay away from it. There was injuries on both sides, too. It created all kinds of uncertainty.

Stay away. All right. The big ones, really, the only ones we have so far, Cards Money Line with the over 43.5 Detroit first half game plus 100. I'm going to take out the Broncos, and then I'm going to throw you my favorite bet in one second, but we're going to take a break. All right, coming back. My favorite bet of the week, and I hope you agree, is the Steelers in Indianapolis minus one and a half. They've been incredibly good to us, a million dollar pick, week after week after week. Buckner's out for the Colts. There's going to be a lot of Pittsburgh fans there. Indy's Defense is just a flat-out atrocity. They're 31st against the run, 28th on third down, 32nd on first downs allowed, 26 then yards per play. Their offense isn't much more awesome either. 27th on first down, 28th turnover, 24th pass. But most important, throw the stats out. Anthony Richardson's all over the place, and he's going against the best defense in the league. Pittsburgh, first in red zone efficiency, first in Third down is allowed. First and first down, second against the run, third in yards per play. This is seventh in QB hits.

This is the best defense in the league in their first and points. I mistakenly said 16 on Sunday. It's 26 points allowed this year. I just think the defense wins the game singlehandedly. I was trying to figure out ways to get fucked on this. It's really just Richardson doing those two long 55-yard bombs where it's like they have eight first downs, but somehow have two touch downs. I'm just acknowledging that. But I think this is the game where they let fields cook a little bit, let them throw in this crap Colts defense. I have no idea how the Colts won last week. I don't think they're good. I think the Stewards are really good. They need this game. They need to go seven and one in these first eight. I can't believe the line is only one and a half. I don't get it.

So here are the cautions that I'll offer. In the first place, the Colts have an incredible offensive line thus far this season. They're first in the NFL in both pass and run blocking, according to PFF. Another thing, the Stealers defense, yes, awesome. But Kirk Cousins in his first game off of the Achilles, completely immobile. Bo Nicks in his second career start in the National Football League. Half of Justin Herbert full-Hey, they knocked his ass out.

Give them credit for that. They sent him this sideline.

He was already immobile, and yes, they completed the job. The other aspect of caution is just historically, Mike Tomlin is much better in the dog spot as opposed to a favorite. He's the only 45% as a road favorite in his career against the spread 33, 40, and The reason that I think I'm inclined to join you on the Steelers is because I don't think that we've really seen Justin Fields yet. I've long been in the camp of Fields. I had Fields on my fantasy team last year. And I will tell you, in our keeper league, I gave serious thought to keeping him for $1 or whatever it is, plus the escalator.

Hoping that he was going to play.

For this upcoming season, even though Russell Wilson had been declared the starter, because the The field's upside. We haven't really scratched the surface. They really haven't done any designed runs for him. And this could be the week. The pathway for the Colts to beat Pittsburgh is to try and give Pittsburgh a dose of its own medicine, like what we expected last week out of the charges, which is just try and run the ball, try and squeeze the life out of the game, try and play a game that's only 2 hours and 45 minutes because we're just running, running, running. Jonathan Taylor left, Jonathan Taylor right. But fields, to me, is the wild card, and at one and a half points... Here's the thing that I also am willing to count, Steiken's good.

Steiken's good, but he also has some of the dumbest big plays of the game calls of anyone.

Well, they trust Richardson. The problem they have is they trust Anthony Richardson.

This is a bad defense for him to play in his fourth start of the season. I'm with you. And his sixth start ever.

In his whole career.

I really believe in the Stealers team. I think they're good. The question for me is, could this be the game where Fields just sucks? Like he sucked a bunch of times against the bears? Sure. But against this Colts defense, why would this be the game that he falls apart?

I love this version of the Stealers where it's apparent that they are treating every one of these early season games, early games on the schedule as absolute must wins. They have to get all these wins before they get to the portion of the schedule where they have all those division games and other super talented teams at the back half of their schedule. Here's the other thing. The pedal is down.

The Browns are going to suck. The Bengals are own three. The Ravens are playing the Bills and could be one and three after Sunday. The Stewards could be 4-0. They could have a three-game lead in the AFC North. So I don't know. I like this. They've been really good to us, and I'm still in on them.

Me too.

Okay, two more. Ravens bills.

Okay.

See, unfortunately, I heard East Coast bias today, and I know where you're leaning on this, but I think we're seeing it the same way. Look, Ravens minus two and a half against the bills. Why is that line lower? Why is that line a pick-em? Josh Allen just looks like he's the best player in the league. The bills look They're going to be able to throw on the Ravens. They're getting a pass rush this year, which none of us expected. They figured out some secondary thing. There's some Ewing theory with Stefan Diggs, even though I never won a title with him. The tease is just so tantalizing here. This feels like a one-score game to me, and I'm not positive who's going to win. There's that. If it's Bills plus up all the way to plus eight and a half, Ravens could be in double digits. Well, we know what happens when they go up double digits to put the game on a platter for the other team. The Bills might be able to win, and it allows us to tease with the next game we're going to talk about. But Bills plus eight and a half, does that make your nipples hard?

I absolutely love it. It's not Jaden Daniel's Zipper zone quite, but it's way up there. I absolutely adore the Bills as a teaser leg this week. I think The back door is extremely open with this Ravens team. It's a wide open back door situation. I'll just leave it at that. I could take this much deeper, but I won't do it.

You haven't had nearly enough drinks. I have not. Baltimore First defense, 28th in first downs, 32nd in pass.

It's all in the last 10 minutes of the fourth quarter.

Yeah, because it's all when the other team realizes, Why the fuck aren't we just passing every down? They can't stop anything. Something about Josh this year, and shout out to the Cus. That was his Super Bowl pick. I thought it was... I really battled on them back and forth, and I ended up giving that AFC out to the Jets because I really wanted to work the Jaguars into the play-ups, and I gave the Jaguars the Buffalo play-up spot. I think I did pretty well with the future so far, but that was, I think, by far my biggest mistake. There was a case for the Bills. There was a case against the Bills, and the case against them was they have all this dead cap weight. Milano got hurt. Now, Bernard got hurt during the season, but none of it seems to matter because Alan's been that good, and maybe he's just going to be this good the whole year, right?

Well, this is the game where it might matter, right? I think we finally are going to see in Baltimore a team that's going to try and take advantage of the injuries, the linebacking core, Taran Johnson's compromise.

They'll run the ball down their throats.

Yes, they're going to scheme that way, for sure.

I've been really impressed by Buffalo's pass rush and just their front in general. Every game, it's jumped out.

Von Miller, he's alive.

Because Tua, the instinct is to throw away week two because Tua got hurt. But by the time Tua got hurt, that game was over. They dominated them for two hours. It's probably the second best team. They're the team that I thought Houston was going to be, to be honest. All right, so we'll put them in a teaser leg. Love it. The Ravens hook They hooked us up last week. No disrespect to them.

Right.

Thank you.

Yeah. And they can win. And then they'll be two and two in the AFC North.

Well, the other teaser leg, so what's that going to be? Well, I have an idea. How about the fucking Chiefs minus seven in LA against the Chargers. And the Chargers, we've ridden a couple of times.

Yes.

I have a bunch of future bets on them. But this is a throw away game. Herbert's probably not playing. I think it would be crazy to play him. They're missing their two best tackles, Joe Alt and Slater. Both those guys are out. James got suspended for their secondary, and then Bosa, go figure, he got hurt again. So they're missing not only five starters, but five of their best eight players, five of their best seven players. And they're in a buy next week. And they've overachieved anyway. They're two and one, and they'll look at this and go, You know what? Let's get to the buy. We were probably not beating the Chiefs anyway, two and two. This is just a nightmare matchup. And I don't see a scenario where they hang... Is Taylor Heineke... You're rooted for Taylor Heineke. He's going to be running around LA and making plays and doing stuff. Get the fuck out of here.

Yeah, no chance. He's six yards behind the line of scrimage in a cloud of dust. That's the Taylor Heineke experience. The only thing that I'll urge as a caution is the lines moved a point in the direction away from the chief. The Chiefs were minus eight at one point. I'm trying to figure out what has happened to pull this down to seven.

I have your answer. I think people have been looking at the Chiefs defense and thinking it's a little house of cards-ish. That there's a lot of when they play straight up defense, they're actually a bottom eight defense. When they're blitzing and doing stuff and basically using tricks to get pressure, they're better. It's a lot of trick stuff with them. I just don't think they're going to need a lot of tricks with chargers. The chargers were having trouble moving the ball last week when the tackles were playing. You take out their run game and now you're making Heineke throw to these subpar receivers.

I guess maybe some of it, too, is the Chief's run defense hasn't been awesome. But I would think that if you were going to be skeptical of the Chief, it would be more on the offensive side of the ball.

Totally. Because But then the other piece is the Chiefs are 3-0, and they're three plays away from being on three. So maybe people look at that and it's like, Man, that line's pretty high. Harba.

Let's grab all those points. But Chiefs historically haven't covered those big numbers. But look, we are in Exotica. We are going to do a tease. We don't need all the points. Just grab it seven down to one. That's living life the right way and push Buffalo up to eight and a half against Baltimore in a one-score game. Baltimore doesn't blow anybody out. They're definitely not blowing out the bills. I'm going to knock on wood right now. I don't want to talk it into existence. But that's how we do it, BS.

Well, here's the thing. We missed on the tease last week. We didn't do one last week. We didn't do one. But we lost the first two weeks, and we have not hit a tease yet. Now, because of these records of the five and a half and up favorites. Like, all the teases have been destroyed this season.

They have been.

It's going to be an overcorrection where now everyone's afraid to do the tease. It's like, come on. It's going to be the Chiefs against Easton Steaker, Taylor Heineke. They just have to win by one point. And the bill is to be in a one-score game against the Ravens. Plus, it's your birthday.

We're not going to lose it.

It's your birthday week.

It's your birthday week. Did Dave Chang make you some chatter for your birthday?

No, he didn't.

He I'm going to save that for when I come out. We can celebrate it together. I want some Chang chowder.

You know what happened to me? I might have to have my dad on to talk about this. This already happened to you. I am now out of the 18 to 54 TV demo. When they talk about the Covenant Advertiser's demo of 18 to 54.

Right.

I'm out. They don't care about us anymore. Did you start watching the Chicago MBC shows? What happened to you when you hit 55?

Ncis Indianapolis.

You were like, Oh, Chicago fire, and then a brand new Chicago PD. Is that going to happen to me?

Is law and order still on us?

I'll be like, Oh, homicides on Peacock. Where did I find law? I'm going to bang on Season 7 of Homicide. What's going to happen to me? Am I still going to like White Lotus? Am I too old for White Lotus now?

Is LL Cool J still doing that investigative show? That's the one.

There's that Fox surfing show. Am I not in the demo for that now? That new surfing show they have?

I think that's awesome. Those waves are incredible. I could watch that for hours. I'm mesmerized by big waves.

Does that make us the wrong demo? These TV people are so stupid. We all have nice TVs now. To have a show with the ocean in HD where the waves.

Yeah, giant waves. And lifeguards.

I'll sit and watch that. Why it took so long? What are these people doing?

It used to be called Baywatch.

So one more thing, FanDuel is having... Yeah, it used to be called Baywatch, which was an important show of our college days.

Important. Some would say vital.

So FanDuel has for a featured bet this week, an anytime TD score bet, that if you hit, you get a 50% profit boost. So we're just going to add that to our bet.

Got to plow into that.

Marvin Harrison, TD plus 100. Is that what we want to do?

I love it. I mean, all you need to do is look at how has the opposing team's best receiver done against the Washington secondary week by week, and it looks pretty effing good. Jamar Chase with 115 yards and two touch downs. The League Neighbors had an incredible game. Both Godwin and Evans had great games against. I mean, you At some point, you have to accept the free money.

All right. Is it time? It's million dollar pitch time. So we're going with four bets this week and then the little Harrison thing. Okay.

We built up a nice nest egg with the winnings from last week.

Do you want to scale back at all and do less than 200K a bet, or you want to keep it at the 200K bet?

This does not, to me, feel like a big 200K bet week. I think we're still learning- Scale back to 150? Yeah, there's a lot of injuries out there, too.

All right, we'll scale back a little bit. The Million Dollar Picks for week 4. Last week, we won $380,000, and it would have been way more, except the Jaguars decided to pull our pants down. I hate the Jaguars. Never again. Notice we didn't even talk about them when we did our Million Dollar pick. I was like, Oh, the Jaguars, seven against Houston. No, fuck you, Jaguars. We're done. We're done with you. Go to your room. Don't come out. You're We hate you. We are up for this season, $504,000 through three weeks. That's pretty good. Pretty good.

Yeah, not bad.

The Million Dollar Picks for Week 4. The Steelers who have They've been our MVPs of Million Dollar Picks.

They have, undoubtedly.

Even you're in now. They are laying minus one and a half in Indianapolis to Anthony Richardson, who is the trick or treat quarterback, maybe of our generation.

Right now, it's more trick than treat.

It's a lot of tricks and occasionally some treats. We are going into this fully well-knowing. There might be one play, maybe two, where he just goes back and he throws it 60 yards, and it's in perfect stride. We're betting on all the other plays, the plays you don't see on the red zone, the passes that sail over people's heads.

The leading the league in interceptions.

Yeah, we're betting on the turnovers and on an awesome, awesome, awesome Stewards' D and house, you're a little bullish on the fields. I do think he might get moved. I'm getting a little more to fields each week. Maybe so. Yeah, I'm stacking it up. All right, so we're lowering a little this week just because it's week four, perennially. 150,000 on the Steelers minus one and a half. That's our first one. Next one is a little parlay action. The Cardinal is playing your Washington team. The over, which is over, it's like 49 and a half or 50, but we're going to bring that over down to 43 and a half in the cards money line, and we're going to parlay that, and it's minus 101 on FanDuel. Fine. We're jumping on that. Just the cards need to win by one point, and we need 44 points or more total in these two offenses with no defense on either side. Let's go.

That's right. I don't even feel disloyal going against Washington. You set it up perfectly coming off the- You're You're not winning the Super Bowl this year.

You just want an Austin, Jaden Daniels year, and don't get hurt. That's it. This is a don't get hurt, Jaden Daniels. Keep giving us joy.

The Super Bowl was winning in Cincinnati in week three on Monday Night Football in front of a national audience. We've done it. We've done it. Right.

With Troy Akeman, super impressed with the throw in the corner as he just gets violated in McLaren. Yeah. Okay. So we're putting 150K on that. And then because Fando has this little special, the 50% profit Profit Boost for any sorte of shutdown score. We're going to go Marvin Harrison, Anytime Touchdown, which is plus 100. And we're just going to throw 5K on that for Shits and Giggles. Yeah.

Get the profit boost.

Yeah, we like you, Marvin. All right, next one. Detroit at home on a Monday night against the Seattle team. They can't block anyone that has defensive line issues that might not have Walker. Detroit has not really played a good start to finish game. I think it's going to be this week. Detroit first half, Detroit game parlay. I talked to you into this. You did. Even money, plus 100 on Fandil.

Fine.

I'm good with it. 150k on that. Just take a lead in the first half, Detroit, and take care of business. You can fart around, and Goff can throw his one stupid pick, and Ben Johnson can have his one terrible fourth down play that Jameer gives us running sideways, doing a flip lateral pass, and gets You can do all that, but just win the game and take a lead in the first half. That's our third bet. Then the last but not least, we're going back. We're doing a tease. We're not listening to Rahim and everybody else who hates teases.

No, Rahim likes teases as long as we do it properly.

It's a special week because we have this gift of the Chiefs minus seven in LA with five of the best seven chargers out, including both of their tackles, their safety who runs their secondary, their best sack guy, and their quarterback who's the star of their team. None of them are playing. We just need the Chiefs to win by one. We're taking that down for minus seven, minus one. By the way, there's probably going to be 45,000 Chiefs fans at that game. Just going to mention that. We like the chargers, not the week. They have a buy week next week. Just whatever. We don't care. We'll be two and two heading in the buy week. Everyone will get healthy. We'll be fine. Chiefs minus one, Bills up to plus eight and a half in Baltimore. One score One-score game. One score game. You have to say who's going to win that game.

I might be making the case on the Ringer pregame show Sunday morning for the Buffalo Money Line. Buffalo Money Line.

I like it.

I like it. On the money line against Baltimore.

That's what's great about that line is I actually think it should probably be a pick them or maybe even Bills minus one or somewhere in there. But I think it's a one-score game. So we're taking Bills plus eight and a half, and that is our tease. So four bets this week, plus a little Harrison. It doesn't add up to million dollar picks. It doesn't always have to. Sometimes we have to be smart. Scaling it back a tiny bit, 150,000 on the four bets, plus the little Harrison bet. And those are the million dollar picks for Week 4. Joe House has a quarterback that we're betting on in this game because we have the over in that game. So you can still root for him to do stuff and not feel bad about it.

Believe me, I will.

House, great to see you.

Thanks, BS. Happy birthday, buddy.

All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Brian Curtis and Joe House, and especially, Logan Murdoch. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Serruti for producing as well. I will see you on Sunday with Cousin Sal. We're doing it live, remember. You can go to my YouTube channel, watch us do the podcast live on the Bill Simmons channel. Don't forget, Mr. Mcmahon on Netflix. It is available to be consumed, all six episodes. So find some time over the weekend. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Sunday. On the wayside, never on, said. I don't have a few years with them.

On the wayside, on the wayside, never on, said. I don't have a few years with them. On the wayside, on the wayside, never on, said.

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