Transcript of A Rollicking NBA Mailbag and March Madness Storylines With Rob Mahoney, Tate Frazier, and J. Kyle Mann

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ihn. Tamaris! Bill Simmons Podcast presented by the Ringer Podcast Network. Rob Mahoney is here. Kyle Mann and Tay Frazier will be joining later to talk a little March Madness. I have a new rewatchable smart CR. How's CR month been for you, Mahoney?

I mean, isn't every month CR month for us?

Well, I just— we, we officially put a stamp on it, told everyone. Yes, even though every month is CR month, this is really CR month. You're gonna be on the fourth one we do. So we have Till I Even Die in LA is going up tomorrow, and then you're gonna be on The Nice Guys, which we're doing a week from Monday. So stay tuned for that. We're gonna do a little mailbag, and I have some topical questions. Rob, I only sent you like 3, so some of these are surprises. You're not gonna be surprised by this first one. This is from every Lakers fan I know. Simmons. Can I believe in the Lakers yet? 3 question marks. That's just, that's an amalgam of all the Lakers texts that I've gotten. I know you did a little bit with Zach on his podcast on Thursday.

Yeah.

Their last 11, they're 8-3. They have the 4th net rating, 1st offensive rating. Luka, not that he didn't look like Luka before, but this is probably the most fun it seems like he's had. And they had an awesome win last night that came down to Austin Reeves throwing the ball against the rim and catching it and putting it back in, which works. 1 out of 200 times. I don't know.

But that was the one.

300 times. There it was. That was the one.

As precisely executed as that could exactly be.

So what do you think? I mean, my 4 contenders right now, I would say the 3 West teams. I think the Celtics have to be in there now with Tatum.

Sure.

And then Cleveland, Knicks, Pistons. I want to see how these next 13 games go. Would you move that 4 spot in the West is wide open. Um, would you, would you have the Lakers as the 4th best team in the West right now?

I, I'm very tempted and I, so here's the thing. It's tempting because the Lakers have been so good. The defense I think is legitimately worlds ahead of where it was a couple months ago. Marcus Smart in the rotation and the starting lineup has been really good for them. Luka, as you mentioned, just been unbelievable. Like all those things are real. They're also real because the Nuggets have been kind of like, eh, like trying to get their feet under them. It's hard to know who's gonna be healthy for them and when. They're still finding their way. The Rockets have fallen off a cliff. The Timberwolves are out in the wilderness. So it's like, if not the Lakers, is it the Wolves by default? Like, I don't know who else you would pick.

I mean, you could have talked me into a stealth underdog Clippers case before Niederhauser got hurt, and then Kawhi sprained his ankle yesterday. It just seems like, well, they lost to the Kings.

Like, at that point you're at risk of relegation.

That's, and then, and Russ was talking just incredible amounts of smack. Nobody's ever talked more smack. 35 games under.500, then Russell Westbrook. They, there's a couple things with the Lakers. One is the close game stuff where you just feel like even yesterday they're down 109-103 with 2 minutes left and you still feel like they're in it 'cause they have Luka, right? And then they have Reeves as the second option. The free throw differential is nuts. It's, I think it's, I think they're plus, they're over.300. I think it's +320 for the year. They're first in the league. They just get 5 more free throws just 'cause of the style of play they have and 'cause they're the Lakers. The biggest thing for me though, the LeBron, Luka, Reeves, Smart, Ayton, that 5-man is now +5, which isn't terrible. You want your best lineup to be +10, +11. It's okay. And Smart has been, I think, better than I thought he was gonna be. Ayton is still a roller coaster ride. I don't trust him at all. But I think in the playoffs, you saw it yesterday, The ball seems to find Marcus Smart with a minute left, with 40 seconds left, with 38 seconds left.

He's just the guy they're gonna leave open and these games come down to whether he can hit that shot or not. I don't trust it personally. What do you think?

All of recent history would agree with you and it's just like by default with the rotation, there's nowhere else to turn. Like he is, he is the guy out there and having him defensively has been so important for them. Like I'm okay. I'm okay with that trade-off because he's going to miss a fair number of those shots, as you're alluding to, but he's going to make enough other plays to hopefully make up for it in the ways that they need. And so if, as long as that's kind of coming out in the wash, that's great for them. But really the Marcus Smart piece of it is just, it's going to matter less than, you know, Luka being able to problem solve at a level that basically no one else in the league can, save for a couple of players. And if you're talking about these other kind of contenders in the West, I just trust an offense led by him. With the ball, even with, you know, everything that they're still sorting out in terms of the chemistry and the on-court flow with LeBron, with Austin. All of that stuff is fine because Luka can figure it out.

And he, I think he can figure it out more consistently than even someone like Ant can at this point, to be honest with you.

And they had a timely LeBron injury, as weird as that sounds. He only left for a couple games. It reset the calibration and he came back and it's been interesting to watch him reinvent himself as this basically third option. Can I rebound, make some hustle plays? He made a great diving hustle play yesterday, which I've never seen him do. JJ said afterwards, he's like, I've never seen LeBron do that before. And LeBron's like, yeah, I don't think I've ever done that before.

I mean, he was, he was full Rodman horizontal extension into a dive for a loose ball. Like for a dude his age at this point in his career, to say nothing of everything he's accomplished. I mean, just a fucking awesome play to watch.

Yeah. And I wonder. You know, I was thinking about players' older stages of their careers, and he is the oldest player we've ever had in this situation. But there was a Shawn Marion, Dallas 2011, where he was just a different version of himself. Better defensively than LeBron, obviously LeBron's better offensively than Shawn Marion was, but really figured out how to be an effective, awesome kind of third, fourth banana role player. Yeah. Right. Karl Malone figured that out in the 2004 Lakers before he got hurt. We've seen guys kind of morph into somebody we never thought we'd see. I wonder if he can do it, because this was the first time when he came back from that streak and they were playing so well with Reeves and Luka. This was the first time I really felt like he was like, all right, it's you guys now, and I'm over here and I'm here to help, and I'm going to chip in and figure out with my, with my super basketball brain how I can kind of nibble at the edges. I don't know if it's going to work or not, but I had written this team off as a contender.

Now I'm like, because of what's happened in the West and because Denver is just a train wreck at the end of these games. Yeah. I just wonder like, yeah, maybe they could win 2 rounds. I don't know.

It's like at this point they feel like a somewhat convincing maybe. And for where they have been, good way to put it. That is a dramatic improvement. Like that is leaps and bounds ahead. And if you look at all the season-long indicators, they're not gonna be all that convincing. Like things like point differential and stuff like that. The Lakers are gonna be way behind some of these other competitive teams in the West. But you zoom in far enough and they just look like a totally different team.

All right, couple more mailbag questions. We'll see in the Lakers. Obviously I'm horrified. It does leave the, the chance still of a Celtics-Lakers Finals, which would be, which should be a basketball holy war. I really hope that happens.

Are, are you horrified though if it does come down to it, the Lakers go on a great run and it is a Marcus Smart shot that really seals something important for them? Is there not a part of you that would swell with pride?

I do like Marcus. It is funny getting the PTSD of having been in that situation so many with the no, no, yes Marcus shot. And now the Laker fans are just have, have basically taken that over. Okay, more mailbag stuff. So heading into, this is from Christian in New Haven. Heading into Oscar Sunday, Joel Embiid has officially missed as many games as he's played. Right now it's 485 to 485. Did you know that it's dead even?

Wow.

45, 45 missed played. Which side, this is Christian asking, which side will get to 500 first? Games played or games missed? What's the gambling line? So I, I think with his injuries now and the fact that they're in the playoffs, we're gonna see him again. So I, I think I'm probably a little more likely to bet on the games played versus the games missed. But I, this would be unbelievable if he got to 1,000 exactly and it was 500, 500. We could not have predicted that. You seem like you seem saddened by this.

I mean, I'm saddened by most things surrounding Joel Embiid, especially if it does end up being 500 games missed first. Like it would be a fair representation of what his career has been for the most part. But yeah, I'm gonna be pretty bummed out about that.

Yeah, this is, I mean, you could kind of see the signs even when he got hurt in the draft process and he is a big guy, 7'2". There's a lot of red flags. But when you look at the games played the last couple years, I think it's like 33, 19. Yeah, it's tough.

This whole Sixers season has been such a mess. Like, I feel like I like a lot of the fringe guys on their roster, and at some point I wished on a monkey's paw that like, I wish Dominic Barlow would get more minutes. And this is what happens. Paul George gets suspended. Tyrese Maxey is out with, you know, with the ankle thing or whatever he's dealing with. Joel in and out of the lineup. Like, it's, they just can't. Ever get any positive momentum in any direction. And that's in a season where they just drafted VJ Edgecombe, who's awesome.

The McCain trade, as, as relatively minor as that was, did not help.

Damning.

The fact that he went to OKC was immediately good. I actually thought they got a lot back for him. They got the Rockets pick, 3 second rounders. He wasn't really playing for the Sixers, but now it looks terrible.

Are there, are there any other GMs or teams where if they call interested in the guy at the end of your bench, Other than the Thunder, where it's like the Thunder, like I think you should be suspicious, but is there anyone else in that category for you where if the Spurs call or if the Nuggets call or if the Knicks call?

Oh, I think, don't you think Brad Stevens is at that level now? He's like cherry picking these, you know, weird role players. Like even somebody like Keita was just kind of released by Sacramento. I'd be nervous. Presti, Brad Stevens, San Antonio would be the three I'd be nervous.

As much as I would like to dispel Celtics fanaticism around this point. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Like, Baylor Shireman is an important part of this team. It's like 4 consecutive years of late first and like early second round picks coming home to roost. Like, they just have cracked this stuff.

Hugo having like one of the 10 greatest plus-minuses of all time. It's a classic. This is from Harriet. Didn't say where she's from. Have we reached a weird place with these scoring streaks? So this is, I guess, coming off the SGA thing.

Sure.

We treat them like this continuous thing, but the second the playoffs start, the streak goes into hibernation. SGA claims he's at 120+ straight games at 20 points, but he went under that number 3 times in the last playoffs when the games matter most. She's confused. I'm a little confused by it too. But I think this is what we do with regular season streaks. 'Cause I went back and I looked, Wilt, when he had his long streak, he had, yeah, I don't know, 6 playoff games or something, but he never went under the 20. So it actually would've rolled over. But we, there is this delineation between regular season and playoffs. So I'm okay with it. The, the bigger thing to me is, did you know this was a streak like a year ago? Did you know what the record was? My whole thing is when we have these streaks and I never knew what the record was and who held it, and then you're telling me it's a streak.

Yeah.

I'm just like, okay, I guess that's a streak, but it's not, you know, like the 33-game Lakers streak. That's a streak. I know what that is. People remember it. People have been talking about it forever. But did, did this feel like a manufactured one to you or one that we should have recognized sooner?

So I knew that Wilt held it, but yeah, I could not have told you the number. And to your point, like that, I think that does separate it from being like the pinnacle in terms of these streaks or these records that are broken. Yeah. You need to know it in specificity if it's really hitting home. At the same time, like it's an amazing record to hold and it's amazing and an incredible achievement for Shea in particular, who has just turned himself into like such an undeniable force and exactly the kind of guy who you would think would hold a record like that.

And today he had 10 in the fourth quarter and they're pretty easily beating Minnesota who's just out to lunch. I don't know what's going on with them. But then somehow got the 10 points and it was organic. It wasn't like he was like gunning it against the Wizards in the fourth quarter. You know, he was still like, the game was a little bit in doubt and he got a, a great and one against Ant to get the record. But it's weird. I think the, the Kobe 9 40-point games in a row is more impressive for me.

More impressive than Shea holding the now former Wilt record?

The, the night when it happened, it was the '02-'03 season. Yeah. We had no scoring at all that year. Right. That was like, there was like 5 teams that were fun to watch. And when somebody had 40 points, like once you were like, whoa, he had 41. It was, it just was a lot. And I think I, I vaguely remember, I think Shaq got hurt and Kobe was in that, I'm ready for this to be my team. Shaq's out. Let me carry us, gimme the car keys. And was fucking awesome. And I thought 9 straight 40-pointers, like somebody getting a 10 for that, I'd at least have more of a, an opinion on it because I remembered the Kobe streak. But yeah, 120, it'll be interesting. Like, could Shay get to like 200? He's so, he's so automatic and he is such a robot. It would almost be like he would have to get hurt in the first half or get foul, crazy foul trouble. It's kind of hard to imagine a scenario where he wouldn't get 20. It's too, it's too easy for him to score.

It's so easy for him to do it. The team is set up for him to do it. And especially in a season like this where, you know, J Dub has been unavailable for good portions of it and also not quite himself when he has played. It's just like, this is Shai's time to do exactly this sort of thing. And he can modulate as you need him to in a playoff series. I, I do think the question of like how we count this stuff is interesting. I don't, I don't have a good alternative because if you, if you include the playoffs, guys like Shai will get disqualified for being good. Whereas a Zach Levine will just all of a sudden become a record holder because he never actually plays a playoff game. So I don't think it's like fair to penalize him for it, but I don't think there's a great solution.

I agree with you. So the Warriors in '16, when they won the 25 straight, they also won the last game of the previous season. So technically it was 26 straight. That's true. We just don't do it that way. We delineate it. This is from huge fan of the pod, Juan. As an early birthday gift, my cousin got me tickets and I got to witness Bam's 83-point game in person. What started out as a quick grab for some cheap tickets turned into the most fever dream experience I've ever had as a Heat fan. What NBA game have you attended that felt most like a fever dream?

I gotta say, I hadn't considered the experience of just like buying a normal Heat ticket and showing up and getting that game. I, like, I, we've talked so much about like people tuning in at home, you know, the players on the court, all of us, and like wringing our hands about what this means for the ethics of the sport, but just like You just thought this was gonna be a normal weeknight and Bam Adebayo scored 83 points and now you have to make sense of that in your everyday life. It's just like a really unique thing.

I can't imagine even in the first quarter being like, does Bam have 30? What's going on here? My fever dream game was, I was at the game when Larry Bird and Dr. J had the fight. Wow. And it was just the most, and it happened right in front of me and it was the most startling. And Bird was kicking his ass that game. It was kind of the passing of the torch game. But watching them actually get in a fight was the most stunning thing I've ever seen in person. Obviously the Artest melee would've been much crazier, but just like, wow, these guys are fighting.

Yes.

Like these were like the two icons of the league along with Magic, you know? And it was just like, I, I can't believe this is happening. The only other fever dream game I had was the Game 6, 2012 Celtics-Heat that I went to when LeBron came out and it seemed like they were gonna end the, end the Heat dynasty before they won a title and they were gonna blow up. And then LeBron, completely crushed them. And it just felt for 2 hours, like, just helpless. Like, oh my God. Have you been to— what was your fever dream game? Do you have one? Maybe you haven't had one yet.

I think for me it is distinctly Game 6, Klay versus Oklahoma City in 2016, where he hit 11 threes in that game. Like, I've just never seen a human being engulfed in more flames than Klay Thompson in that game. And it was one of those that in the moment it was like, This feels like something just shifted, like history just kind of changed in real time. And I thought that was going to mean the Warriors were going to go on to win and be crowned as one of the great teams of all time, which they still are. But I would say it did two things fundamentally, like Kevin Durant probably doesn't leave the Thunder without that game. And then we don't get the just absolutely iconic Cavs comeback in the Finals in quite the same way or anything resembling the same way without that particular game. So a lot did shift, just maybe not quite what I expected.

And we would've had an OKC-Cleveland 2016 Finals, which would've been strange. So Joe Robinson sent a two-part question based off the BAM '83. If you had just said for last decade, 5 guys you would've pegged to break the '81, he said for him it would've been KD, Luka, Curry, Harden, and Dame. Did that look like the right 5 for you?

That checks out.

KD, Luka, because I don't, I don't think LeBron, he was never a guy that was going to do that.

Yeah.

I don't even know what LeBron's highest point total was, but I don't even think he got to, it's just not how he played. I don't think he would have taken that many shots, but those 5 guys seem like the right guys.

Those seem, those seem like good, honestly, like healthy MVP season Joel, I think was a decent candidate for this. Like he's had so many runs where he's doing like point a minute or better. And then maybe Russ at the height of his powers when no one could tell him no and he could take any shot he wanted. I could see him at least gunning for it.

And Cam Thomas, that would be your 8th. Just Cam Thomas really feeling it one night. Uh, his second part was a more interesting one to me. And I talked about this with legs a little bit, but he asked, with Bam scoring 83, does somebody break Wilt's record before 2030? I don't think before 2030, but I do think it'll happen. I went back and I looked at Bam's 83, Kobe's 81, Kobe's 62 against Dallas when he only had the 3 quarters.

Yep.

Luka's 73, Dame's 71. And I tried to figure out like what the box score would look like. So Kobe's 81 where he is 28 for 46, he had 7 threes, 18 for 20 from the free throw line. So you'd have to bump some of that up anyway. Here's, I think somebody would have to go 30 for 46 to have to make 30 field goals.

Yeah.

14 for like 25 from 3. So 14 threes, 16 twos, and then 26 for 31 from the free throw line. Now, as crazy as all that sounds, it's slightly elevated from some of the best performances in those different categories. So 30 for 46, you'd have to go 16 for 21 from 2. It's like, well, that's crazy. Well, Luka, when he had his 73, Luka was 25 for 33. But he was 8 for 13 from 3. He went 17 for 20 on 2s. And this leads to my point. I think if anyone can get to 90, I think it's Luka. The more I thought about this over the last few days, like combination of 3-point shooting. Yep. Physicality. If he was in shape enough to have the endurance, if he went for it, like guys were out on the team, if the game stayed relatively close, if he started fouling guys out, I think he would be my pick.

Everything you're saying makes sense. Like he has the role for it, he has the talent for it, he has the game for it. He also has like the fuck you spite factor for it where like this wasn't really an issue for Bam and the Wizards, but like on the wrong night against the wrong opponent, if you get under Lucas' skin, like ask the Chicago Bulls, like they just went through this. Like you talk trash to that guy in the middle of the game and all of a sudden he goes off for 50. Like it's just like—

Varelas was apologizing after, I didn't mean to.

Wasn't familiar with your game. Like, I think he has all of that going in his favor. The question of like someone breaking 100, though, is I think it would require like a dramatic shift in the way the game is played. And so that might be an argument against Luka, just as somebody who is anchored in the here and now. If someone is going to make, like, eventually make a run at that thing, it may have to be 10 or 15 or 20 years from now, where ultimately the old, like, the strategy of the league has shifted so much that it would allow for it because So many of the recent scoring binges, Bam included, frankly, have been so 3-point reliant because that's the way that the league has changed over time. Yeah.

Right?

Like there's just so much more allowance for guys like Steph and Luka to chase records and pursue them in that way. But that's just kind of what everyone does now. And so if someone was going to do it, if someone was gonna get close, I would think we might have already seen it.

Bam was 7 for 22 from 3. If you tweak that to 11 for 22. Now I'm at 95.

That's fair.

I think Bam, part of the recipe was what Bam did in that game where he had the 30 in the first quarter. I think that's a necessity. I think you need between 30 and 33 in the first quarter, and I think you need to be over 50 at halftime. And then that fourth quarter, if you're in the mid to high 60s, you can really game the fourth quarter. And you saw a little like Miami with the fouling and trying to get the ball back. I think you could game the system a little bit. Brad from Nashville writes, hi Bill, one night in 2006 Kobe scored 81 and I was high. I emailed you to tell me the— that— tell you that the Mambo is freaking me out and it made the mailbag. 20 years later in 2026, Bam scored 83 and I'm drunk and I'm emailing you to tell you that it's freaking me out. Some things never change. Thanks Brad. Thanks for weighing in.

Uh, Brad, I think us and the, you know, the people who love you in your life might need to sit down and have some conversations.

Brad, Brad, can you appear at this location at 3 o'clock? Some of your friends are gonna be there. Sure. Derek from Charlotte says the NFL has been doing the replay reviews during the commercial break, coming back from the play ready to go, and the announcers tell us the decision. Why can't the NBA do this? They spent commercials reviewing the play. We come back, they're still reviewing. Then they give us a 35-second explanation no one needs. It's a great point. I think this could just be done in 3 and a half minutes. Review. Let's go to commercial. Come back. The refs have 75 seconds to determine it. How many, how, how long can you stare at the replay monitor? Like, what's a long time? Do you know right away or not?

Like, they're out there like watching one battle after another. They're just like fully locked in for hours.

It seems like there was one the other day, or I swear it was like 10 minutes, but I just think it's like 75-second shot clock on it. Basically just see every replay.

Yep.

Get 4 of them. And this should not take more than 3 and a half minutes total, and we should be in commercial for some of it. Why, why wouldn't that be how we did it?

I'm absolutely willing to concede the commercial time, like sell me Taco Bell or whatever it needs to happen, especially when you'll catch moments during these broadcasts where actual gameplay is going on, game goes minimized, ad goes almost full screen as like, again, as the game is going on, why is that not happening during a replay review? Why aren't we just factoring that? Like, you're just going to have time baked into all of these games where somebody challenges and there's dead time on air and you can do as many reads as you want. You can rapid fire them if you like. I will be a susceptible audience.

And why haven't they figured out the league pass timeouts when they just cut to the people dancing on the— to try to get on the jumbotron for 3 minutes?

That's what I want.

You don't want that? Well, I tell you, my wife loves it. And, and it's very illuminating on different parts of the country how, how desperate and excited they are to get on the jumbotron. Oh, right. So some of the coasts, little, little more restrained. We get into some of the more fun cities, people are really getting into it.

Okay. So you really have a sense. I was worried you were going coastal elite with this, but you're saying people are being too cool on the coasts.

I think people are being, it's like some people are like, oh look, come on. There's, you go to some of the NBA cities, they're trying to get on, they're doing dances, they're shaking stuff. Great stuff. Uh, next question's from Brian Greenway. He had a nickname for Con Canipo. He wants to call him Shotgun Con. Not only is it a cool nickname that, that captures, you know, his shooting. It also describes how Khan rode in Bill's car, presuming Bill didn't strap him into one of Zoe's old car seats. I'm glad people are still getting mileage out of that. By the way, I didn't drive him to his house. I drove him to his hotel.

Sure. It's an important distinction. I appreciate you clarifying on this point.

I would do it again.

Uh, the only problem with this is you can't vote for it. Like, you can't be the one to assign Khan the Bill-oriented nickname. It has to come from— it's got to come from the world.

It's gotta be organic. Parker writes in, what's the most important 3-point shot of Steph Curry's career? I figured you'd know. Couple that jumped to mind for him. Double Bang. Yep. Gold medal. The, the final 3 MSG record breaker. 2015 Game 6, 7 minutes. I don't even remember that one. And then 2022 NBA Finals Game 4, which doesn't necessarily have the one signature shot for me, Rob. Olympic shots, one double bangs, two. And I think he hits 3 threes in a row in the third quarter of Game 4 in '22 in the Finals in Boston.

Yeah.

And the second one is just from 32 feet and Tatum bumps into him and they don't call it. And it's the official moment of that game where all the Boston fans were like, oh no, I've, I've, I've seen this movie before when he gets like this. Oh no. And then he hit that third one. Right after that one in the corner when he gave it to Gary Payton, Payton gave him the little slip pass back and he hit it. So that sequence, but it's, it's really the collective sequence. I think it's the Olympic shot. What do you think?

I would go double bang. I think just, really, I think just because it's like a statement of identity, right? Mm-hmm. It is, it has become so intertwined with the mythology of Steph, kind of how we understood him as a player and the unique threat he presents on the floor. If, if like the, What is the official name that's been given to the Olympic shot? The gold, the golden dagger, the golden slumber, the go— I think it maybe it is the golden dagger actually. If it had never happened, I don't think we would— I mean, maybe we could workshop it. If it had never happened, I don't think it would change the way we think about Steph. But if the double bang had never happened, I do think that would change the way we think about him.

So you're saying double bang was basically like his Scorsese Taxi Driver Yes. Like arrival.

Like, yeah, it's like the world is now different, but this is, this is something else.

The world is now different.

Yes.

Buckle the fuck up. Yeah, I think that's good. I think you're right. So double bang one Olympic shot two, and I would say that third, that middle shot of the three against Boston. Mm-hmm. Because that's his greatest game. And that's like, that's the exclamation point for the career that puts him in the 10 to 12 best all time. He needed that last finals.

Oh, I mean, and those, I would say those shots in particular, especially the ones in Boston. I mean, Brad might've been in that crowd because it was among the drunkest crowds I have ever seen at any sporting event. It was like some of these games were starting so late. You could tell people have just been drinking for 6 straight hours in anticipation of these games. And then Steph is just silencing, you know, all of your shipping up to Boston. So condolences.

That's Boston right now during St. Patrick's Day, the St. Patrick's Day parade on Sundays. Stay safe out there, everybody.

Nobody's—

nobody in that parade is watching this. Uh, this is from Chris Deaves. This was an awesome question. I didn't even really come up with an answer for this. He lives in San Antonio. The town has always wanted an NFL team, but it won't happen because of the Cowboys. But hypothetically, would you trade Wemby for the Los Angeles Chargers?

Oh my God.

Is it better to have one dynastic pro team or two franchises at once? FYI, I would not do it for Wemby. So he would not trade Wemby for the Los Angeles Chargers. Um, so I guess the way to look back at it, because they've had this already with Duncan— would they have traded the entire Duncan era? Duncan's just somewhere else, but you get an NFL team that whole time. What would you pick? Really tough one.

I don't—

I don't even know where I land on this, Bill.

I don't think it's that tough. You're gonna trade one of the most successful runs of any sports team in modern history for like, what if there's a chance this football team is good some point? Like, why would you do that?

What if you love the NFL? You've always wanted them to get a team.

You're asking the wrong person to start. Yeah.

I would keep the Wemby slash Duncan, cuz if you have a chance to have one of the 10 best players of all time playing in your city for 15 years, I think that trumps the NFL team.

But where's the line? Would you trade Stephon Castle?

Oh yeah, I'd even throw in some picks. Yeah, that— I mean, that's— no, it would have to be a generational thing. I'd be interested to know what the Spurs fans would think. I bet it would be like 80/20, I'd rather have Wemby. But I bet there's like a little— because they're not getting an NFL team otherwise.

Like, come on, what are we talking about?

Well, you're not an NFL guy. Uh, this is from Nathan in Appleton, Wisconsin. He said the perfect gift for Cousin Sal to get you would be a 2025 Patriots AFC Champions t-shirt. Mm-hmm. My question for you, what piece of championship apparel would've been the biggest good-natured fuck you to a fan friend of that team?

Oh, wow.

As a Pats fan, I don't think it's possible to top a '07 Pats AFC Champions t-shirt. So this is really kind of a race for second. I had a couple other ideas, but I don't know if off the top of your head if you had one.

I'm trying to think, 'cause it's, I just don't think there's anything you could say to like a Warriors fan about blowing 3-1 that they haven't already heard. Or, and they have so many championships to keep them warm at night. So like what, that's the thing. So, so who are really even the other contenders for the NBA?

I have some, I have some options. The 2004 Yankees AL East Division Championship when they, then they go to lose 4 in a row to the Red Sox.

Yep.

Even though the Yankees have won World Series before and since. Tough loss. I don't think that's the answer. Oh, 7 Pats, whatever. The Pats won 6. I had the Warriors down. The 2 I kind of concentrated on were both NBA, although I, it's almost too mean to do it to Buffalo. I feel like that, like you might actually get beaten up if you had like a Bulls AFC title, whatever. The '76 Suns Western champs. That was the year, the triple overtime game when the Suns fans are still mad at the referee who didn't call the Paul Silas timeout.

If you're giving a fuck you gift to somebody who was invested in the '76 Saints.

He's 78 years old. He's like, why, why did you give me this?

You trying to commit murder? What are you doing?

The '93 Knicks Eastern, um, whatever division they won when they lost to the Bulls that year. Um, with like a Charles Smith writing on it, I think would, would be really mean. But I, I think the answer is, um, is, is probably anything with the Bills or the Vikings cuz they haven't won. That's just a, an extra level of mean. Anything from, uh, any conference championship that they won, but they don't have, like with the Warriors, we're like, well, we did win in 2017 and '18. Right. Like, it's fine. When they, when you haven't won, I think that's probably the worst one.

But I think especially if they've won, any team that's won since, like, I just think wouldn't be applicable. The, the only other NBA thing that comes to mind is if you really wanted to dig in on the Lakers fan in your life, and this isn't like a, you have to dig up this merch that was never made or shipped off to another country, you know, and donated. If you just wanna like really hammer them on the bubble title and just like keep talking it up and keep, keep reinforcing how, what an amazing accomplishment it was.

Oh yeah. Like an ironic, the bubble, the best title anyone's ever won. I like that.

I think it could work.

Tom writes, I know NBA title defenses are a big thing for you. That is true. I do love a title defense. I do think that should be considered part of the championship title. How do you rate OKC's title defense this year? Where do you think it stacks up against the the recent ones, he thought, he thought it was a really good one. So I think it's been a home run.

Yeah.

I know they're, they're not going to get 70+ wins. A lot of that had to do with injuries, but I wrote down some stuff. SGA definitely, I think, went up a half level, and this was a guy who was the MVP and had an awesome start-to-finish year last year, but the end-of-the-game stuff is really starting to feel a little MJ-ish, right? So that's like crazy. That has to be part of the title defense. They've really gone out in these signature games and treated them like real playoff games, like the Denver game the other night.

Yeah.

Or Boston. Like, I do feel like they, they're defending whatever place they have in the hierarchy.

Yeah.

And you could feel that in these games.

Even the response game against the Spurs where it was just like, oh, you guys think you have the one up on us in this matchup. This is what happens when we take you seriously.

Yeah. They introed a new, a few new characters, which for a TV show is important. We've been, AJ Mitchell has joined the cast.

Huge.

Jared McCain, um, a slightly more offensive Kayson Wallace. He's here too now.

Hell yeah.

Um, so we have that. Um, then some other fun stuff. Dort replaced Draymond as the league's biggest villain.

Definitely.

I don't even think it's questionable. He's running away for that. They become the poster boys for foul baiting, which is the league's second worst crisis other than tanking. Now there's other people that do it, but I think people point to them the most. So that helps their like relevancy title defense thing. Their fans and media members are just, you talking about us? What? There's a lot of that.

Very combative. Yeah.

Combative, combative basketball city. Their games are always entertaining. And then, you know, 20, they have 26 J-Dub games right now and half a Hartenstein season and they're on pace for like 63 and 19. I give this, I give this title defense an A+.

Hard to imagine things going better considering what has not gone well, right? Considering that those injury concerns and yeah, short-term and long-term, how could you hope for more than this?

You can't. Really fun to watch too. I think their games have been super entertaining. Josiah writes, he had a nickname. Him and his buddies have started calling Keontae George the Speaker.

Oh, is this a keynote bit?

You've heard this.

This is, this is a peril of anyone who texts or types a lot about Keontae George.

So that's what he said. Every time they're Jazz fans, every time they type Keontae, it gets changed to Keynote. So they just call him the Speaker. So Giannis is another one where this happens, where it always throws in the apostrophe. It's the Giannis apostrophe S. And it's— I thought Eddie Cue was like a huge— the guy that runs Apple Content, I thought he was a huge NBA fan. I don't know, how are they having these typos with the Apple phone?

Get it together.

Come on, Apple.

My only concern about Keontae George, the speaker sounds like something deeply religious from a state where they just don't mess around with that stuff. So like, I just want to, I want to get clearance that like we're in safe ground here, you know?

Okay. Ron from Florida wants to know, he's, which current NBA teammates are most deserving of the Reggie Willis Howie Kendrick Memorial Award presented to two teammates who need to switch names? He volunteers Jeremy Grant and Donovan Clingan. Clingan just looks like a Jeremy to me. Big fan of the pod.

He does look like a Jeremy.

So just walk me through this. If Shea Gildress-Alexander and Isaiah Joe had just switched names 8 years ago.

Okay.

And it was Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and Isaiah Joe. Is Isaiah Joe just a cooler name? Because we call Shea SGA. It has to be an acronym. It's People spell the Gilgis wrong. Some people call it Gilgis.

Yeah.

If he was just Isaiah Joe, would that have increased his cool, cool quota by like, I don't know, 10%?

Isaiah Joe is a pretty cool name, but it's a pretty great name. Shegill just— Alexander also has a nice ring to it.

So you think we're used to Shegill? You think that Shea works because it's so distinct?

I think it's so distinct. My question is, are we switching both names or just one name? Like, no, you have to switch both.

It has to work for each guy.

So it's not Jeremy Klingin. It's— Donovan Clingan becomes Jeremy Grant and vice versa. Okay.

I went through all the rosters 'cause I really enjoyed this question. I couldn't find a perfect one. I thought for sure I'd be like, oh, there's gotta, and I just couldn't. I was like, it was just way harder than I thought. Ben Nielsen wants to ask, he asked, are we officially done with artificially built basketball teams winning championships? LeBron era Heat, '16 Cavs, '19 Raptors.

What does that mean?

Warriors? Just, I guess, like, instead of homegrown, homegrowing your, your guys.

Yeah.

Either using free agency and slapping guys together, making big, some sort of big piece champions that are built more organically. I'll say this, I do think it would be way, I think it'd be impossible now to do the 2011 Heat. 'Cause I think the league's too deep to just be like, we're gonna have 3 guys and that's it. You have no chance in 2026. Everybody, there's so much depth.

Free agency just doesn't work the same way either at all.

Yeah. So I think in a weird way, it's a weird question, but I think he's right. I think it would be way harder to just be like, like what the Nets did with KD and, and Kyrie. We're gonna use free agency, we're gonna build an instant contender and blow. I don't, I don't know if you could do it the same way anymore.

I don't think you can do it that way, but also I don't want to pretend like the Knicks drafted Jalen Brunson. You know, like they're, I think there are successful cases around the league right now. Like we're, we're talking about towns and we're talking about the Lakers as a potential contender. That's not because of a guy they drafted. Like there's still really successful teams who are building them quote unquote artificially, whatever that means.

Alec D wants to know, can life as a Kings fan get any worse? After 20 years of incompetence, we've reached a new level. Worst record in the league. Now they're, they're actually not worst record in the league, but when he got this, when he got this, they, they were the worst record.

I would argue that might make it worse that they've, they've gone like 3-1 in their last 4.

So maybe it's even worse. Yeah.

Yeah.

But he also wants to point out they have a top 5 payroll. So the 3rd worst record of the league and a top 5 payroll. He's like, how could we do worse than this? And the answer is, I don't really know. This is really the James Dolan. This was the mid-2000 Knicks where they would have, you know, the 2nd biggest payroll in the league, but they would go 19-63. I think when you can combine overspending With a terrible record and really no assets, that's, that's peak. Can you do worse than that?

I think this is about as bad as it gets. Like the guys who are on the team, no, nobody wants in terms of like seeing your way out through a trade, even if you're hoping for the draft. Again, they just fell from the worst record in the league to like the third or fourth worst record in the league, which with the flattened odds isn't as devastating, but wouldn't guarantee you a top 5 pick. Disaster could strike. I had no idea they were the 5th highest payroll. That is a fucking mess.

He said they're top 5. It might even be higher than 5.

Oh my God.

Dan King wants to know Cooper Flagg Celtics fandom in Maine ties. I don't know if you saw the Celtics game. The entire state of Maine was at the Celtics Mavs game rooting for Cooper Flagg. There's a bargaining chip that has not been discussed, says Dan King. Ace Flagg. Ace's twin, the twin brother who's at University of Maine, he was a freshman this year. The University of Maine wasn't very good, but he was, you know, he plays basketball. And if you sign, if you sign Ace now, maybe do a second round pick, stash him on the roster for you. Maybe you sign him to like a 5-year deal. So it's like, hey Cooper, look over here. I like this Ace Flag. But by the way, Celtics Dan King points out Celtics G League team is in Maine. Ace flag on the Maine Celtics as the lure for Cooper. By the way, I know you have a lot of Dallas fans in your life with your Texas connections.

You can't do this to them.

You can't. They absolutely hate— like, it's really getting bad how much they hate when I pick up this Cooper flag stuff.

Understandably. They've been through some stuff, Phil.

I'm sorry. I get it. I get it. But so So the Thanasis Alexander Tupacupco— can't speak.

Come on, Bill.

And, and Tedacupo.

There we go. That's closer.

Do you believe in this as a strategy? Lure the family member. It's pretty interesting.

I feel like it could work the other way just fine. Like, couldn't you just—

you're stuck. Well, like, you just wait, wait to get him and then get the family member.

Yeah. Like, don't you need to get Cooper first and then you can just sign Ace Flag to whatever contract you would like to sign him to? Because Otherwise, I just don't know that Ace is gonna be in a hot enough demand unless I'm just like dramatically misunderstanding his potential draft stock. That's fair to think that he will lure Cooper there.

Stephen describes himself as a mildly delusional Celtics fan and sat at 3 for 8 years. He's been ridiculed. I sent this to you ahead of time. He believes that if Shane Larkin doesn't get hurt during the 2018 Eastern Conference Semis against Philly, Celtics would've beaten the Cavaliers and lost in the Finals. He thought he would've given some key minutes in Game 7 when Terry Rozier was falling apart. Your thoughts? Is my Shane Larkin would've saved Game 7 theory insane? I will continue to believe it until my dying days. So my, obviously it's an insane theory.

Yes.

My question for you is, what's your most insane basketball historical thing that you actually believe that you will die on the corner of?

Before we get to that, can we make sure Shane is okay? Can we get like a wellness check?

Steven? Yeah, Steven.

Sorry, Steven.

You might not be okay.

I mean, Shane, I wanna check on too, 'cause I, I think he's playing overseas somewhere, but yeah, we, we gotta check on some things. Mine is that Sam Cassell definitely did break his hip doing the Big Balls dance in 2004, and that we would be looking at a dramatically different version of NBA history if he had just like slightly smaller balls, to be honest with you.

Did he really get hurt doing that?

It's, some people believe so, including me.

Oh, that's a great, why isn't conspiracy built? My, why haven't I done a deep dive on that?

It's a great question. That's a great one.

Yeah, 'cause they lined up really nicely with the Lakers.

Oh yeah. Lined up nicely with the Lakers. Probably could have won that series if they had been a little healthier. Then, you know, the 2004 Pistons title that we hold up as this like beacon for all these other teams. What if it just like literally had never happened because Sam Cassell wasn't quite so enthusiastic?

It's a great one. So Sam Cassell's big balls dance swung the Finals and they'll probably match up better with the Pistons. Mine is, uh, I've said this before, it won't be a complete shocker to people, but the 2002 Celtics who lost to the Nets in 6, I think they could have thrown some haymakers at the '02 Lakers. They really matched up with them well. I know this is the insane theory you'll believe to your death. They beat them in LA, I think 2 years in a row. Yeah. The Pierce-Antoine combo, for some reason, like the Lakers just didn't really like playing with them. They like going at Kobe. I don't know. I just feel like we could have thrown some punches.

You think the Antoine Walker era Celtics were going to be—

Tony Delp, Rodney Rogers, Kenny Anderson. I don't know. Are you okay? Is everyone okay? I think we would've done better than the Nets. Okay. Oh, 2 questions from Justin from Oregon. We'll go quick. The next weird career arc, like the Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, like the late prime that gets extended. Who's your best candidate for that? Do you have one? I sent this to you.

I mean, there, I think there's some guys where it's like, what if James Harden just becomes José Calderón for a while? You know, what if he just becomes a pure caretaker point guard? Like, I'm gonna commit zero turnovers and have 12 assists a game. And it's like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna shift into a totally different kind of player. But I think he could do that if he wanted to.

So he's like fun old guy at a pickup game.

Exactly.

But that's his NBA career for like 4 years. It's like just super fun to play with.

I think we talk about like, oh, the guys who can hang around a long time, like the Stephs or the LeBrons, for example. But if you can just be like a point guard who can manage the game and not not have to move that fast in bursts, I think you can play a while if you would like.

Mine was Carl Anthony Towns slowly morphing into his Sam Perkins early '90s situation.

I like that.

Stretch 5 with some size rebounding, not a lot much else. He's only making like $5 million a year, veteran experience. And then his second question was 5-year panic trade, which young superstar will eventually be involved in the next shocking, we never thought he'd get traded move. K.D., Luka, et cetera. This is clearly Paolo would be the answer for this, right? I don't even know it'd be that shocking, even though he is been playing better lately.

He's been playing better and he's been playing like super well in kind of a simplified context. So I think that that's the only thing about this question is of the young guys you would consider superstars, I just really don't see any of them being moved. You know, like your, your Wembys, your Anthony Edwardses, your Kades or Tyrese Halliburtons, like that's not happening. So yeah, I think Paolo, the conversation will continue, or Franz if you prefer, like however you suss those guys out. I also have just come to accept, I don't have a reason for this, I don't have a mechanism that will force it to happen, but I've come to accept that the Sixers are just like not operating in a normal plane of existence. And so if you told me someone panicked and traded Tyrese Maxey, I'd be like, yeah, that sounds like a normal Sixers thing to me.

Very fair. I would throw Evan Mobley in there too as the kind of like they trade him and then he puts on 15 pounds of muscle and all of a sudden goes up a level.

Can we go back for a second to the weird career arc? Because yeah, there was one thing I was thinking about for the first time and it is what is a 35-year-old LaMelo Ball like? Like who is that person?

Like White Chocolate on the Memphis Grizzlies in the mid-late 2000s.

Just, just really embraced, not even as a basketball player, like who is that person. Like, what happens to someone like LaMelo Ball when he has to reckon with the reality of his 30s? I, I just, I'm, I'm baffled by it.

I can't wait to find out. Derek from Bloomington wants to know, how do tall players sleep on the road in hotels? A king bed dimension-wise can only comfortably fit a 7-foot-4 person sleeping diagonally. This means Wemby is sleeping diagonally with his feet 2 inches off the bed. Isn't he getting less than ideal rest every road game? All right. I'd made some— I sent some texts on this one to find out. And, uh, teams carry extenders for the hotel beds for the tall guys. Wow. And Wemby has a custom extender. That's what I found out.

This is honestly great intel.

So they have this covered. Yeah. They don't want these guys sleeping badly, so they, they have like little extender things. So, never thought of it. Great question.

See, 10 years ago, that was like an ESPN the Magazine feature and you just potted it out.

Tim Keown's furious. Uh, This is from Hans. I'm not going to pretend to pronounce his last name, but it's O-N-G, O-N-J-A-N-W-E-S. He said he found he had the exact same reaction to finding out Bam scored 83 as he did to finding out Luka got traded. Um, my brain breaks upon realizing the realness of it. I may never be the same. What other NBA moments were like that? So this is basically the craziest wait, what happened NBA moments this century. And I'm gonna offer you the Luka trade, Bam 83, and the Artest melee. I think our unassessed— it's almost like a 3-person Mount Rushmore. I think that's really it. I think those are the 3 where the reaction was the same, like, wait, thinking it was a joke.

Yeah.

Wait, what? The Pistons went— the Pacers went in the stands? What happened? I think those are the 3, and I don't think there's a 4th one.

The Pistons and the Bam one make particular sense because it's like they, they're just happening in front of you. And so there's kind of not a way you can challenge the reality of that situation. Part of the Luke experience, as we've all talked about, was that initial wave of like, this can't be right, right? Like we couldn't wrap our heads around it to a degree that it seemed like it had to be made up. The only other trade honestly that I remember having anything resembling that level of reaction to was when Allen Iverson got traded to the Nuggets. And it was just like, this feels so wrong on a fundamental level that they, like, SportsCenter must be wrong. Like, they must be like misinformed about what has happened here. But that doesn't compare to the Luka trade.

That doesn't compare to the trade rumors. And like, we had no idea it was coming. The only, it's a smaller one, but I remember where I was when it happened. It was a Friday afternoon, 2 days before the Patriots lost to the Giants in the Super Bowl. And I was in Arizona with my dad. We're having a drink outdoors and all of a sudden on the ticker it flashed that the Lakers had acquired Pau Gasol from Memphis for Kwame Brown and Crittenden and a number 1 pick and Pau's then pretty fat brother. And, and we were just, it turned out to be the gem of the trade. And we were just like, what else was in the trade? And we're just watching the ticker and then the ticker would come and we, this was pre being able to find out stuff on your phone. Phone, some texting people on my BlackBerry. It was like there had to be more in the trade, right? And there just was nothing. And that was the trade.

Well, you, I think you've backdoored us into maybe the only other candidate, which is the Chris Paul to the Lakers trade getting canceled by David Stern.

That's the fourth one. You're right. We got to, I wrote back-to-back columns and back-to-back days for Grantland about that. You're right. The canceled trade is the fourth one.

Truly trippy stuff.

See, Rob Mahoney, that's why you're the best. Uh, two more and then we're done. These are both LeBron related. We're doing great time. We got Tate and Kyle coming in one second. Ben Mao wants to know, he's a conspiracy theorist for us. LeBron is behind the let's shorten the season push because if it's successful, his records will never be broken.

Wow.

I will never, I'll forever be in the MJ camp, but if I found out LeBron was making this push, it would cement him as the greatest strategist chess player of all time and could be a new category in the GOAT debate. Um, he's definitely not pushing for this because, uh, I felt this way for a while and so some others, but I loved it. That'd be amazing if he was like, if he was like working behind the scenes for a 70-game season, cuz that would, that'd be it. He would own every record forever.

How did Michael Jordan not do this? Like someone with a true burn it all down mentality. Like I think LeBron actually, I think he does like care to a degree about being a caretaker of the sport.

Yeah.

But like a, a real gunner, like a real ruthless, like ruthless competitor who would wanna hold onto all that stuff for their whole lives. I could actually see that. I actually see it.

Yeah, this, that's a Michael Corleone Godfather 2 move.

Yeah.

Okay, last question from Edward Bender. You've talked recently about LeBron's destination next, next season, mentioned Golden State as a likely landing spot. I still like that one, by the way. You've also talked about this being the final year of Steve Kerr's contract with the Warriors. What if Lacob hired LeBron to be the player coach for the Warriors, à la Bill Russell with the Celtics in the last 3 years? By the way, I think player coaches are illegal, but I think so. Hold that to the side for a second. It would bring up a ton of attention to the team. LeBron's a basketball genius. We haven't had a viable player coach really since Russell. For LeBron, it would be another legacy burnishing achievement. I'm not a salary cap expert, but maybe there would be some salary cap stuff that would help. To me, Steph is the biggest hurdle. Who says no? Would Steph want to do this? I got really excited about this idea. This really would be like, if, if you're in like a lifelong eternal battle with, with basically Jordan and Russell and Kareem for who's the best player of all time. LeBron's at the point he needs to start adding stuff to the arsenal.

Mm-hmm. Russell has this amazing player-coach thing that he did the last 3 years. He won 2 titles playing 48 minutes a game and coaching, which really should be mentioned, I think, even more prominently when people talk about him. LeBron just doing that and doing a good job with the Warriors would— it would flip— it would not flip it, but it would, I don't know, tweak it a little bit, right?

LeBron won one more title and one player coach, and let's throw Coach of the Year in there. 'Cause if obviously if they win, I think he'd win Coach of the Year too. Does, does, would that make him the GOAT if he won one more with an active Coach of the Year, as you're saying, a really singular achievement that is technically not legal, but if anyone was going to make it legal, if LeBron went to Adam Silver and said, I really want to be a player coach for my final NBA season, change your rules. I think they would just change it. I really do.

I think they would too. He could coach Draymond, right? Draymond's the one, he's the one person Draymond seems to have real reverence for. Him and Steph together. Maybe you get Jimmy Butler coming back. Maybe you get one more old guy. You're basically like, you're the Expendables.

Yeah.

It's like the Sly Stallone movie. You're like, guys, it's just, it's the old guys. We're gonna make a run here and I'm gonna coach the team.

Al Horford suiting up for the second half of the season.

Oh yeah.

Ready to roll it back out. Let's do it.

I got genuinely excited about this. I don't know if he'd want to do it. And then I was trying to think, how could somebody— could we have a player coach? Not the way people coach games now, right? In the NBA, like Mazzulla's, like people like that. These guys are maniacs. But maybe the zag is we're spending too much time trying to coach. Let's go back to the basics. Roll it out.

Simplify.

Let's not overthink this. Yeah, we have some great offensive players on our team. I don't know. I got excited about it.

I think the more we talk about it, the more I really want it to happen and it absolutely won't. And so thank you for cratering my hopes and dreams in real time on the spot.

Well, by the way, to circle back to an earlier question, this would be the fifth holy shit moment of the century, wouldn't it? Like it comes out LeBron is the gonna be the new player coach of the Golden State Warriors. Be like, what? That would be—

so here's my question. If the Lakers, you know, say it didn't go well, LeBron is the players coach. They decide to have a players-only meeting. Is LeBron invited to the players-only meeting?

Great question. He's not.

It's tough. It's, it's tough to not be one of the guys anymore.

But he'd have Draymond in there telling him everything that happened in the meeting, so it'd be fine. All right, Rob Mahoney, you can listen to him tomorrow on the Ringer NBA Show, which is also on Netflix, by the way. Uh, you're taping tomorrow morning, and you're also on the Prestige TV Podcast. And I'll see you in the Rewatchables in a couple days.

Sounds good, Bill. Thanks so much.

Thanks, Rob. We're gonna take a break, come back with Tate and Kyle. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by Sam's Club. It is that time of the year when you just got to get in your car and go somewhere. I've done that plenty of times in my life. Nowhere gets you ready to go quite like Sam's Club. Snacks, the gear, super low prices on gas. They got a bunch of stuff that keep you and the whole crew rolling. And here's what you got to do. You got to join the club of Yes And at sam'sclub.com/yesand. You must be 18 years or older to purchase membership, and membership is subject to qualifications. Visit sam's club.com/yesand for details. This episode is brought to you by Venmo. Supporting your team never gets old, but here's something new. You can now pay for your game day wings and rep your team at the same time.

How?

By getting your college colors on your card. Score more with the college branded Venmo debit card. Get up to 5% cash back with Venmo Stash. Sign up at venmo.com/collegecard. The Venmo Mastercard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. Select schools available. Venmo slash bundle terms and exclusions apply at venmo.me/stashterms. Max $100 cash back per month. All right, Tate Frazier, Jake Kyle Mann, they are here to talk March Madness with us. I— they just sent me the brackets because I was doing the mailbag with Rob and I couldn't see and My guy Akuff is in the 4th spot in the West with number 1 Arizona. I'm just furious. I'm so upset. Why can't they give us good things? Why couldn't they have paved the way for some sort of run? This is terrible.

This is the wrong attitude, Bill. If you're going to be on this island, this is an opportunity for Darius to just do some scorched earth and establish and plant a flag, man. We're not afraid. We don't run.

Let's do this. But I have the other flag for Burris potentially being the number 5 pick from Arizona. I'm— these are competing corners. I don't have enough flags, Tate.

Maybe winner gets the number 5 pick. Maybe that's the way that you look at it. Sweet 16, whoever wins, that's the number 5 pick.

That's great. So before we get to some of the madness stuff, Tate, who is the biggest winner this weekend, player or team, for you?

I think Arizona's the biggest winner because Arizona did not get the number 1 overall seed. But if you look at the bracket, the East is just kind of a, a gauntlet there for Duke. I mean, they have to basically deal with Dan Hurley potentially as their number 2 seed. Obviously that's turned into a bit of a rivalry. They both try to claim Madison Square Garden. They also got Rick Pitino and the Johnnies sitting there as a 5 seed.

That's a tough 5 seed.

They got Tom Izzo and Michigan State staring them down as well. So they just have a lot of tough teams in, it's the blue blood bracket there in the East. So that's a tough draw for Duke. And then if you look at Arizona, they got a pretty clear path and we might have a situation where if Arizona, Gonzaga end up in the Elite Eight, we get the master versus the protégé there with Tommy Lloyd versus Mark Few. So pretty good matchup there for Gonzaga and a pretty good spot for Arizona as well.

What do you have, Kyle? Same winner or somebody else?

Yeah, I mean, I agree with Tate. I mean, the most interesting thing here from the draft standpoint is we have, you know, your eyeballs go immediately to the potential Kansas-Duke thing. I mean, if Peterson comes out and if Peterson goes on, speaking of scorched earth and making tournament statements going into the draft, I mean, if Peterson comes back and, you know, plays really well in that matchup, a big thing for Duke we should mention is, you know, they're down Caleb Foster. Tate seems to have some optimism. They're gonna have to win Tate to get him back. I mean, you know, they're gonna have to be in the tournament. And then, you know, Patrick Ngongba, who's a big guy for them, who's good, we'll see if he's back and ready to go. So pretty, pretty testing, challenging bracket for them even though they, you know, they won the ACC. But it's, it's a challenging pod for them for sure.

All right, enough madness talk. No, just kidding. But I do want to talk to A.Cuff because can we just get A.Cuff out of the way now?

Can we give you some credit, Bill? You've been watching a lot of college basketball. You've been texting us during Champ Week. So I just wanted to put that out for people. If anyone's disrespecting you, uh, you are watching the game, so salute to you.

Yeah, I mean, one huge— so I watched, I've watched all week, but then yesterday I thought I was going to be missing stuff because I was supposed to hang out with my wife, randomly not feeling well. So I'm like, how about this, why don't we watch something on the, you know, the 3 TVs? Give me the 2 on the left and you could just watch whatever you want. We'll just hang out all day and with the dogs, it'll be great. And I watched an insane amount of basketball, but I saw every Arkansas game, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Acuff, his best game was today because he wasn't really that good yesterday. But I, you know, playing these 3 40-minute games back to back to back, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, is pretty brutal. Um, you know, especially you're trying to play for— so I got a little worried yesterday with him. Today I'm willing to say it. I don't know if anyone else has planted their flag in this. He's starting to look a little Kyrie-ish to me, and I know that's sacrilege. Kyrie is like the one of one one of the most skilled guards we've ever had.

Ambidextrous, incredible finisher. Just like the guy you would create in a lab. There's stuff Acuff does, Tate, that just makes me think of Kyrie as I'm watching him. Is that crazy?

No, I don't think it's crazy. I saw a lot of people talking about Allen Iverson, right? I mean, you got like the Baron Davis comp. I mean, obviously not as explosive. Steve Francis also. Like, there was a lot of guards in the early 2000s that I feel like come to mind, some of the smaller guards.. But as far as being a chameleon, I feel like that's what Acuff is in a game. He can be an engine for you. He can be a creator for you. He can be a spot-up shooter for you. And offensively, he just put on a masterclass. I think the real thing and the real knock for Acuff, and I'm sure Kyle will talk about this as well, is defensively there was a couple times where he had the matador defense where Duke Miles, he's just like, yeah, you go ahead and score so I can get the ball back. I think that's fair.

Let me get outta your way.

Yeah, that's fair to bring up. But as far as if you just watch him on the offensive end, it's incredible to watch. And for Calipari of all people, and obviously like he champions his guys quite a bit, but he's been pretty fair in the sense that like he is in a top tier of the group of guards that he's had. And that's saying a lot when you go through all those guards— Jamal Murray, SGA, John Wall, Derrick Rose, the list goes on. So for him to be in that conversation says a lot about Acuff. And if you watch him, it's just incredible to watch. And you mentioned his fatigue. I mean, he really wasn't tired at all. He just kept going and going, and he was great down the stretch.

You know, Kyle, one of the things with him The reason I kept thinking of the, of the Kyrie thing is he really can run a team, but then also be the scorer, but then go back to running the team. And he's like an old school point guard where we talk a lot with the NBA guys like that the guard position is just kind of, kind of melted away. And you, I look at somebody like Darius Garland and it's like, that's kind of the old, old school point guard that I grew up with. And we just don't have a lot of these anymore. And if anything, there's more like zero guards and more like the Russell Westbrook types. Aikoff's like an old school, I can either set guys up or I can get my own thing. And I think he can finish in traffic. The defense is obviously not awesome, but you know, it's not like Kyrie was an incredible defender. But I, the question for me is the size and do, are we just moving into this world with OKC and San Antonio and the Celtics where everybody just wants bigger guards and that's why he's gonna fall back?

Yeah, I mean, you hit it when we were talking about him this, this weekend. It's kind of like you can love a player and then, but you have to run it through that, that test, that gauntlet, that prism of like, are they gonna be able to play against San Antonio and OKC? Both of these teams, I mean, even you go into like the Pistons, a lot of these, the Celtics, these teams have big physical switchy defenders at the, in the, in the backcourt. And it's, it's tough. It's, it's a tough time. You know, the thing for me is I hear, you hear a lot of comps when I watch Acuff. When I initially watched him, my first thought was just like, you could tell this guy has old point guards in his life because he just has He just has this, this sanity and this, this sense for— he sees levers within the game that other players don't see. I've noticed, like, he can see, like, the defense is doing this. If I do this, if I do this action, he'll tell us. He's pointing all the time. And Tate and I have talked about this a lot.

I mean, this Arkansas team, I, I do not know where they would be without him. He is like the smartest player on their team, obviously, but he just kind of directs traffic. They were one of the best transition teams and most efficient and prolific in the country, and a lot of that is because of him.. He hits it ahead just relentlessly. He never ever leaves that on the table. For the comps though, getting to that, I mean, I really don't see the Derrick Rose, Iverson, incendiary speed type guys for him. I see a cerebral game manager in the vein of a CP3, except for I just don't see, yeah, I, he's somebody, the defense, the defense, it reminds me when I see him do those matador plays, it reminds me of my high school coach just burned into my brain because I was an awful defender. Big shock at my build. But I could just hear him going, Ole Kyle, man, Ole. And that's what I think of whenever I watch Darius Aikov. But man, he carried one of the biggest usage rates in the country and was just like zero waste. You know, that's just how smart he is.

Knew when to pick his spots. And yeah, he absolutely showed out today.

Yeah, there's some Kyrie, some CP3. I like like some of the best parts of those guys.

I've heard Deron Williams.

So little one.

Yeah, I like that he gets stats. As dumb as that sounds, these are 40-minute games and you're just like, yeah, here's, I put up 32 and 11 today. Like that's not nothing. In the, you know, when even though we have the 3-point shot, little pace stuff like that, but him versus Fleming, Fleming State, the Houston guard who has been in the number 5 spot for the last 2 months. And I don't see it. I don't understand if you're gonna just go those 2 guys again. There's another guy I could see in that spot that we've, we were texting about today, but I don't see the Flemings versus him with the advantage going to Fleming. So where do you stand on that?

I love Fleming's. I love his game, but I think, you know, it's tough when you have the smaller guards and I think there's kind of a group of 4, right? Burrys is in that group. Mikell Brown, Mikell Brown is in that group. Bruce Pearl just called him Markell Brown on the broadcast. So maybe that's his new nickname.

Bruce's accuracy was all over the place.

Yeah.

Bill, you missed it. Bruce was on fire today. He also did a nice stump speech for his son not being in the tournament and tried to call out the committee chair. He's becoming quickly the Bronny James of coaching. Stephen Pearl. It's not his fault.

But can you imagine if Ben was coaching a college team and didn't get in the tournament? Can you imagine what Bill would be like?

I would go nuts on my pod. But Bruce Pearl's pretty— I mean, his approval rating is pretty low at this point, isn't it?

It's, it's dubious.

Yeah, yeah, it depends on the camp you talk to, you know what I mean? Like, he can be very gregarious. But, but back to Fleming. I mean, I'm a fan of Fleming. He has the scoring prowess. There's times where he has the defensive caps as well. I think it's great that he plays for Coach Sampson. I think Kelvin Sampson's done a really good job of getting him to learn how to play team defense. That's something that will translate. His own ball pressure has gotten better as the year has kind of waned on. But when you look at him versus Acuff, I mean, there's games that you can point to, but Acuff hasn't had less than 17 points this season if you go all the way back through his game. So like, even when he doesn't play great, he still gets the bottom line number of points. And I think there's some games where Fleming's even— he said in the championship game against Arizona, him and Sennac didn't quite show up. So there's some times he has that he can be a little Houdini. So I understand why Acuff has kind of jumped him in the general consciousness right now.

Well, and you have, you have the Arizona guard and then you have Kyle Skye, who if you just go and you watch the YouTube clip of his 45-point game against some crap team where they're up 30, but it's like, he's just looks like the all-time most NBA player-ish guy out of all these guys. I don't know. I think it's gonna bounce around. Do you think, Kyle, that the March Madness, like the next 2 weeks, is gonna affect the draft possibilities with these guys at all? 'Cause I feel like it, hey, I don't say this every year, but I think this year I think it could swing some stuff.

0: Yeah. I mean, if you just look at the, the order, I mean, this, it's, I don't think Kingston is as solid at 4 or 5 as he's been in a while. I think it's kind of come into question lately. And I think the Burry's conversation, like we were talking about, and we can get into him in more detail. I think, and then, you know, Mike L actually started higher in the year and he kind of got dinged as it went along, but he was the 5.

Yeah.

So I think it's, it's really in flux. Like, I don't, I don't think it's really super set at all. You know, speaking to the Kingston thing, Kingston is, I like him a lot. It's just like what you were talking about. He has, people swear that he's like 6'4". I've never gotten to stand next to him, but when you look, when you look at him, you're like, optically it just doesn't, he's got narrow shoulders and he just seems, he seems small, but But Kingston is, is super— he's probably the fastest player in the draft. I would say he reminds me of Maxey at times in the fact that he just blitzes, blitzes, blitzes. He's a really good passer. I think it speaks to Kingston's, you know, character and credit though, that he came into a team that had two returning backcourt players from a team that went to the national championship game, and he came in and just kind of took over the, over the main spot there and ran that team. But he just needed to be more consistent. 79, oder Dr. Oetker Vitalis Müsli ab 516 Gramm für nur 2,22 €.

Aldi, Gutes für alle. You know what's funny, like, watching— oh, and I watched a lot of college this week. I thought the product was really good. We've had so many— we've had— no, but we've had so many years where, you know, it just seems so inferior to the NBA in so many different ways. I watched like Arizona-Duke and Arkansas, ironically, who somehow has lost 8 times.

But those, those are like real teams with like running real offense, great action, great secondary action. Yeah, now they have like multiple actions within one possession.

It's high quality play.

Yeah. And then Arizona basically is 4 first-round picks, and the guy who's— if you didn't know anything, you were like, who's the best guy on this team? You would have said the point guard. Who is like gonna be a great second round pick and I'm sure he's gonna end up on Miami and he'll have like a 10-year career.

It's always Miami. We always, it's something deep seated about Miami.

I know. Can't believe it. But it's, it just felt like a more mature product this year. And I don't know if it was a product of, it's just like, this is a fluke awesome class or what? What do you think?

Oh, what do you think, Tate?

Well, I was gonna say just kind of a mix of like the European guys who were coming in. You also have this great freshman class, which is getting compared to like the 1981 class, right? Which anytime you're talking like Mullins, Jordan, Elijah Wan, I mean, that's a ridiculous group to be in, you know, conversation with.

Yeah.

And then you also add in the fact that these guys who are veterans are coming back because they're getting paid to come back. A guy like Jayden Bradley decides to come back and have more of a role after Caleb Love goes to the NBA. So I mean, you mix those three pockets together, you got a triple threat of good basketball. And also the coaches have a little bit more leeway with these guys because it is professionalized at this point. So I think you add it all together, it's been a nice mix. And I, I've seen some people even pointing out the fact that they've enjoyed the product so much more. A lot of people, as you know, Bill, come in and march parachute in, but it seems like the parachuters are having fun.

Yeah, finally we need it. You know what part of this is, Kyle? And the All-Star Game is like this too. You, you really just need guards that know what they're doing. And a lot of years with college, like even Purdue, it was so much fun. By the way, that he, he is, he, their point guard is absolutely 100% ending up on like Indiana, San Antonio. I'm sure Brad Stevens is gonna like try to figure out how to steal him,, but you just can tell he's gonna end up on a good team. They'll be like, haha, they took him 37th, they're so stupid. And then he'll have like a 12-year career. But Kyle, so many guards that kind of just know what the fuck they're doing this year, which to me seems unusual. I don't feel like that's, that's been the case that much in college anymore.

0: Yeah. Especially if you look at the, look at it through the lens of the lottery. I mean, we have a lot more guards. Like we've said, there's not, there aren't as many wings that are kind of being pushed up into that level. But yeah, the guard quality, and to speak to the quality of college basketball, it's just guys are incentivized to stay. And, and I think something that's really helped too is, you know, we do have the guards, but if you look at the top teams in the— there's a return to kind of a traditional vibe in college basketball where all the best teams are big. If you look at Michigan, if you look at Florida, if you look at Duke, I mean, just down the line, these— they all have solid front courts. Some of them even— there are nights where I'm just like, God, I wonder if this team could like kill the Wizards inside or something. Like Michigan on some nights. I'm just saying, not that— of course, Bam proved that That's, you know, anything's possible. But yeah, I mean, just the depth of the talent and getting guys to come back, I think, is kind of the driving force in my opinion, in addition to a good class.

Like you mentioned Arizona, like I was mentioning, I was saying like Kharchenkov for them is like their, what, 5th dude? And I think he could play 10 years in the NBA.

Like he's a good player. So when we look at big picture, and I want to talk about Burrys a little bit too in a second, but when we look at big picture, Cause the big, the question you guys are gonna get over the next 4 days is who should I pick? Who should I bet on? Who's your favorite? Who's your sleeper? So we'll go, who do you think is actually going to win? Who would be, who would surprise you the least if they won?

Who is it, Tate? I gotta take a deep breath before I say it. Duke is an indie team. Duke has won in 2010. Duke has won in 2015. I do feel like this Duke team got a really tough draw, but I think it makes the story even better if they get outta Greenville. They lost in Greenville last time they were there. There. 2017 lost to Sindarius Thornwell. You remember that South Carolina team?

Really tough.

That was fun. Yeah, that's a, that's a place that they haven't had great history. But if they survive Greenville, they'll have, you know, obviously North Carolina fans pulling against them. They had that in the ACC tournament as well. They're both in Greenville this time. But I just feel like this Duke team, especially with Gongwa being back, they need the rim protection. I think he will be back and help them with the rim protection. And Cam Boozer's never lost. Like, this guy has never ever lost in his life. And I do think that matters at some level. And even in the ACC tournament, Virginia had 'em on their heels and felt like, wow, Virginia's gonna win this game. And then they just found a way. And Caden Boozer, who has stepped in for Caleb Foster, has really done a good job. And Cam was the one that got him involved in the game. You got him an open 3 early. He knows where his spots are. They had this twin connection with each other. So I think like if I just open up on the day of the national championship and Duke wins and they beat Arizona in the championship game, game.

That feels like inevitable at this point.

You're going back for the brother, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tate's just gonna— I'm passing out.

Yeah, yeah. I was psyched for the brother because, you know, they— we've been— these guys have been in our life since what, 7th grade, 6th grade? And they've always been a tandem, and it was always like, Cam's the better one, you know? And when you're like, yeah, that my brother's the better one, I'm not— you're always— I was kind of subconsciously root for the other one, but I thought he had some good Kyle, who, who would be the least surprising to win the title?

I mean, I'm leaning towards Arizona right now. We'll see if Jaden Bradley is like hobbled, but they just have everything. I mean, they've got rim protection, they've got shooting, they've got experience. They've got, you know, Kawhi has been, you know, up and down. He's a guy that, you know, has flirted, has been in and outta the lottery in the beginning of the year. He was higher up. So he has a little bit to prove and he's a winner too.

Yeah.

You know, that's been, that was one of the big things going into the year was who's, who's more of a winner, Kawhi or Kambuza. But to speak to what Tate's talking about with Duke, I think another, you know, next factor here is, you know, yeah, Caden is being underestimated, but defensively, man, at like the 3-4 spot, Duke is tough. They got Dame Sar, who's a kid who came in, an international kid, very, very long, could be a high pick, end up having a surge late in the process. And then Malik Brown, very, very physical 3-4 guy who's a great passer and really physical. So, but I'm going to pick Arizona at this point because I just think they have everything.

What do you think? I have Arizona as well, just from what I really was watching this weekend. They just seem like almost like a junior NBA team to me. They had everything you'd want. And Burrys, who I just feel, you know, he was, he had a great run in LA. There's a good, there's a good, I think he won the title, but he had like a massive game in the title game. But just, you know, and it wasn't like, I think he was a top 10 guy on all the lists and all that stuff. It's not like he's a surprise. But he's the guy when we're talking about the draft, because there's just too many guards and not— I just don't think all these teams are going to need guards in the NBA draft. And he's the guy that I think could have a chance to go 4th or 5th because he's got more size. He's just a prototypical, like, 2-guard, can swing. I could see him on all these different teams. And I think there's a little extra there in the bigger games too with him. So he's probably a Probably he's like what, 9th on the list now, Kyle?

It's about that 8th, 9th range. Yeah, people have had him in that like 9 through or like 8 through 15 range. But I look at him and I'm just, there are major Kayson Wallace 2020 like 3 vibes with, with this guy where same age, you know, about the same age in the process. He's a little older than the other guys. I just think, I just think that there's a possibility that teams are gonna be reaching for the shiny thing with going for these upside guards like the Mikel's or the Kingston's or, you you know, Keaton Wogler's shooting or Acuff. And then you've just got this— his high outcomes might not be as like tempting as some of those guys, but he's just steady and he plays for a team that he fit into a role and just— and he doesn't really have a big-time weakness. He guards, he plays both ways, he's got good size to guard both positions. I just think that he's a winning— he's a winning player. He reminds me— it reminds me a lot of the Kayson Wallace thing.

It really does. Yeah. I'm excited to see what happens with them next 2 weeks cuz I was texting you guys about how You know, we always do this with the draft where you just rank the guys like with the potential, but when we actually get to the draft and it gets to a team like Utah's picking 5th and it's, they're just not gonna want a point guard. Like they're, they're kind of committed to Cante George at this point. What they could really need is a 2 guard or a wing or, you know, and sometimes these guys move around.

Tate, what's your biggest sleeper? Biggest, biggest sleeper? I mean, Arkansas is definitely in the mix. I really like what Acuff could do. I would call him a Kemba candidate, so I would throw them out there. I think Gonzaga I would watch out for just in the West. I know that we love Arizona, but Gonzaga's fallen off like the national conversation a little bit. And this team, Mark Few, I don't know how many more years he has as a head coach in waiting right now. And I do feel like Gonzaga has to win one championship. They, they've just been so due. And last time we were in Indy, we remember Gonzaga undefeated. They go there to the national championship game, they're playing Baylor, Scott Drew's Baylor team with those three guards, just completely— Davion Mitchell, I mean, physically just overwhelmed them, you know, Corey Kispert and those guys. So I think they might have a little bit of redemption. So I am concerned about Arizona in that stretch. And also Arizona just has to get over the mental hurdle of getting there. So that's another team I would throw into the mix. And you know, I mean, I'm going down the line, I have to bring him up because I love him so much.

What if Rick Pitino just did it? What if Rick Pitino just knocked off Duke?

It just went to the Final Four.

He's drinking a beer.

He's drinking a beer. 0: He's walking through the door speech.

He finally, finally turns around. 3: I just would love that storyline. I mean, he was having a great time in the Big East They win it. He seems like he's like having the best euphoric moment of his career right now. He's kind of swooning a little bit. So I don't know, I, I, I still like the Johnnies. I do see their problems and I see their issues and obviously they can't play as physical as they, as they did against UConn, against a lot of teams with the officiating in the NCAA tournament. But that would be an incredible storyline if Vampire Rick Pitino knocked off Duke.

0: I was hoping you were gonna say Pennsylvania and TJ Power after their electric performance today. What a game. The Ivy League final.

Who knew?

That was so much fun. Duke, he was Duke and like a pretty high recruit, right?

Wasn't he like 5-star? Yeah, went to Duke, went to Virginia. I think he scored 35 points in his career at Virginia and he had 44 today in the Ivy League Finals. So, uh, what a turn for him.

Unbelievable. Put it together late. I thought he was doing really good. I was, I was shocked by him, but he was a beast that game. Kyle, who's your sleeper? Uh, in terms of— well, I was gonna tack on to what Tate was saying there Smith. If we could get AJ D'Abanza versus Gonzaga, I think that could be pretty fun. If we could get, you know, an Innocente and Tyon Grant-Foster, just that would be a really interesting statement game for them. But I, you know, I'm looking at this and I'm just, I'm seeing, gosh, I mean, I don't really like anybody out of the lower left side of the bracket. UConn is sitting right there. I could see them making a run in that bracket. You know, and then, but Arkansas is another team that they could lose in the second round or they can make a run to the Final Four. That team, it could go either way. So UConn though is a team that Tate and I, they're kind of our zombie team. I feel like anytime you think UConn's dead, Danny Hurley's got that intensity.

I think that they could make a run. Well, and they also have a guy who's gonna be the lottery pick, seems like it, who's averaging like 12 points a game. I don't know what's going on there.

Braylon Mullins.

Yeah.

Do you like Braylon Mullins? Mullins? Yeah, good shooter. I think that it would be really good for him to come back for another year. I don't know how Kyle feels about that. I just think he's kind of been projected in this lottery space. But if Braylon Mullins was given the keys of the offense, he had a full healthy year, I think we'd see him completely unlock. Eric Ryba, who's another guy that he came in with, I think those two guys playing together, that would be a lot of fun for Hurley. And we forget, I mean, last year UConn should have— I mean, not should have, but they could have easily beat Florida. Very close to beating Florida. And they dominated the tournament 2 years in a row. So Dan Hurley and his offense has been tough to stop for anybody, especially game planning for UConn. It's one thing for the first game, it's for the, the second game. And once you get into the tournament, when you have to scout this team, it's really tough. Their actions are layered. We've talked about that a lot, Kyle and I, just how, how good of stuff that they run.

Luke Murray, shout out to him for putting some of that stuff together. So I just think UConn's gonna be a tough out for anybody. And Dan Hurley has a chip on his shoulder and anytime he does, because he leads the country and he's gonna get teed up or do something insane, which is also great. That's why Fran McCaffrey being in the tournament is awesome. Patino, like, we have a lot of good characters. Don't forget the UCLA coach.

She's amazing.

Are you raising your voice at me? Greatest press conference moment of the year.

We do have, it seems like, a higher concentration of crazy coaches than we've had in a while, or like character coaches, like what kind of what we had in the '80s. Yeah, when I, I think of The amount of like good teams we have, interesting teams, guys who could just take over a game, you know, and put up like 30, 33, 35 upset potential. We didn't really talk about the Darren Peterson X factor part of this too. What happens if he's just fucking awesome in these playoffs? What happens if he looks like young Kobe all of a sudden for 2 weeks? Because there's been some— Kyle, I know you've been monitoring it. There's been signs It's better than it was, right? Yeah.

I mean, he's, he's, it's been up and down all year. He's been slowly kind of trying to acclimate. I really think, you know, if you circling back here, I mean, Kansas is also another sleeper there. Their highs have been very, very high. I mean, they beat, they beat Arizona when they were humming. I mean, they kind of owned them. I mean, they, they've had some, they can beat anybody. They've also, you know, their motivation and their consistency has been up and down, but they could get hot, Tate. I mean, you could see this. I mean, also, could this be the Bills self? There's, there are whispers of that, that this could be the, the Bill Self swan song. He could have that in the air. Just, you know, go out there, do one for the Gipper. One last one.

I, I could see them making a run. Yeah. So scared to be deprived of his great coaching if he decides to leave.

That'll be tough. I wanted you to let this one fly.

Go ahead. Go ahead. I'll really miss his chess master routine.

What do you think, Nate? Yeah, I mean, I like this 5. I like their 5. I worry about their depth. Like when they have to lean on El Marco Jackson, you saw that when they benched Bryson Tiller Tiller and they had to kind of go away from their starting five because, you know, Bill Self was trying to send a message to Tiller, I guess, in the Big 12 tournament. Maybe that was a lesson learned. But Council's a guy who's getting— who can get really hot. We saw him against NC State this year. He hit like, from what I remember, like 10 threes, maybe more. It was just a ridiculous performance. So when you have Council there, Darren Peterson seems to be loved by his teammates. There was a little bit of a strange period there, but he's won them back over, you know, like I think he won back, which is good. And then Trey White's like the perfect X factor in the NCAA tournament, does all the dirty work, can hit big shots for you. And then you got Badunga, who's one of the best rim protectors in college basketball. So I mean, they kind of check all the boxes.

I just worry about their depth. If you get Badunga in foul trouble, that's kind of the recipe to beat them.

Yeah, I asked you guys about him like a month ago because I was like, this is just a classic, he's going to be the 47th pick in the draft and end up on some team playing 25 minutes a game. Really? Like, what happened? Oh, he's 2 inches too So 30 teams in a row passed on him. I think there's so many fun subplots this year and there's so many good ways this could go. So I'm not going to get my hopes up too much, but you know, Louisville, I think has my, not Louisville, Arkansas, I think has my heart this year. I think I've watched them the most.

I'm the most intrigued by them. You love Cal. You're just a Cal guy.

I do. And I know, I know it's looming and I know, I know the Cal crazy collapse when he gets too tense and that he'll probably screw this second half up of one of these games. But I honestly think talent-wise, I think they can hang with any of these teams and they have a guy who will be completely unafraid on the biggest stage to, to do his thing. So he's one, I think Peterson qualifies for that too. AJ's gonna be a fucking maniac, right?

Like he, he'll just be, he'll be all 40.

He will knock him out. I don't know.

Or he could go, he's not coming out.

40.

Yeah. He's gonna be like, he's gonna have 7 coffees.

Face. Not allowed, I don't think, in the BYU honor code.

But yeah, is that true? Yeah, he's just drinking sodas.

Dirty sodas. Dirty sodas.

Yeah.

Well, and then, and always fun to root against Duke too, even though I kind of like the Boozer twins.

So it's fun to, they're a likable duo, you know what I mean? Like, I can't even hate these guys. And defensively, they play such great defense as a team. That's really the reason why you believe in Duke. I mean, we can talk about, you know, Cam Boozer and everything else, but defensively they're so good. And when they have Gongbo they really have no weakness because of Malik Brown and Damay Sar. Like, the ball pressure from Sar, the, the deflections from Malik Brown, and then if they don't get it done, they have Gongbo on the back end. So it's 3 levels of defense, which is tough to beat.

I just like that I don't have to take it personally anymore when you, you, when you're ragging on Calipari. I used to just have to eat that forever. I'd just be like, God, Bill hasn't discovered Mark Pope yet, so that'll be a new misery for me.

I was gonna say, Cal, we're not even like on the map anymore.

North Carolina, Kentucky, You're catching Tate and I at a very low time, Bill. It's a surprise that we're even in good spirits.

Well, I mean, the Caleb Wilson thing was— yeah, that was devastating. I thought he— for some reason I thought he was going to come back, and it's just apparently he was coming back.

He got hurt ramping up to come back, which is even sadder, you know what I mean? I got a text on the Wednesday. They were like, yeah, Caleb's getting ready for Duke on Saturday. I'm getting fired up. I'm texting my parents. I'm like, Caleb's coming back for Saturday, get fired up. Then Thursday I got like a sad face text and I'm like, oh no, what is it? What does sad face mean? He's not gonna play on Saturday. It's like, no, he broke his thumb on the other hand and he's out for the season.

So you had this, this completely lovable, awesome top 4 lottery pick who probably would've gotten better than it mattered and you don't even get to root for him one time when it actually matters and he's gonna go to the NBA now. Yeah, kind of sucks. That's the rub with college. I was thinking, by the way, I had this idea for college. No NIL money for the first 2 years. That would be my NIL fix. Stay for 2 years. Third year, lots of NIL money. So we get a little more stability with the jumping around. People will probably hate that idea, but I was wondering like, what if you're just a student, a real student athlete for the first 2 years, then year 3 you can cash in?

I mean, it would be fascinating if you put it in a trust too. Like what if you just had the money sitting in a trust? That's, that would be a really good— and you couldn't touch it until if you were on the third year, then you could touch it, do whatever you want with it. But for the two years, it just accrues interest and it's sitting there. You kind of know what's going on.

You have to play the third year to have it.

Well, you still get it. You still get it regardless. You know what I mean? I guess you can still get it regardless if you go to the NBA, but if you come back for the third year, then you just get the money and then you can do whatever you want with it.

I like that. All right, so Acuff is my guy for the tournament.

Who's your guy, Kyle, man? Oh Lord.

Let's see if you have a guy.

Have you officially adopted someone yet?

Yet?

Oh geez, I mean, I have a lot of guys. I have a lot of guys that I love to watch.

No, you have to pick one. You're not gonna list 7. Pick one. Who's your guy?

Pick a guy. I love La'Barron Phylon. I mean, he's been one of my favorite players. He's probably going to be a late lottery pick for Alabama, but Phylon and Acuff have kind of, you know, he's really— he's got kind of Mike Conley vibes. He's a really tough as shit kind of, uh, just a wiry kind of guard, but he'd shoot the ball. He's wiggly, you know, he's competitive, he's He's one of my favorite players.

I'll tell you this, 'cause the draft's gonna be stupid this year 'cause there's too many point guards and not enough teams that need point guards. One of these guys is gonna fall to like the 17th, 18th pick and it's gonna immediately be a godsend. Some team that's actually like a playoff team, you know, like I'm trying to think who would be like 7th, like Charlotte all of a sudden, you know, that like they have the 17th pick and it's like, oh, we'll take him. So there's just too many people at that position anyway. All right, Tate, who has your heart?

I'm gonna go with Keaton Wagler for Illinois. And this is a team I just keep going back to Illinois and Wagler. I got to see him in person out here at the UCLA game. I just love the way he plays. I love the way he passes. He has shown some signs when teams get physical that he doesn't play so well. And I can relate to that. You know, when there was a lot of ball pressure, I'm just like, this is not how I want to play. I'm like Devin Booker when he got double-teamed. I'm like, we're doing double teams. Like, what are we doing? What are we doing? Yeah, that's Keaton Wagner's MO. And I just like the way he plays. This Illinois offense is one of the best offenses in the country and one of the best offenses all time on KinPom. So like when they get going, they're a lot of fun. Love Brad Underwood. I am worried about their draw 'cause they got TJ Power in the first round and probably VCU in the second round after they upset Carolina. So that could be tough for Illinois. But I, I buy into this team and I buy into Wagner.

So that, that'll be my guy. Yours is Nate Amen, right, Bill?

That's your guy, right? Yeah. I don't, I don't wanna be mean with college players, but that's the only one There's, there's 10 guys and then there's a drop-off. So I've done all my work on the 10 guys and Amen's the only one I don't get. He was the 4th ranked recruit, but we, I've just been there with these really tall ball handler, you know, kind of not strong guys. We've, we've failed with these guys as high lottery picks for 45 years.

So I'd, maybe he'll convince me otherwise. He's gotten stronger at least like because of Tennessee and the way they play. Like he's had to get stronger. So he's gotten a little bit more physical. Ankle, but I'm with you. His balance is so bad. Like, I kind of go back to balance. Like, he feels like he falls down a lot and gets pushed around a lot, which is not good.

It's like what I texted you guys. I'm watching all these guys as I think about them, like projecting them, and I'm watching these games, I'm having a good time, but I'm also like in the back of my head, what is this guy going to be like as a pro? And you just have to think about them going against OKC and San Antonio and Boston and all of these 6'7", 6'8" wings Kayson Wallace and Derek White and Hugo Gonzalez and just on and on that, and then Wemby waiting for you in the paint. And if in my head it seems inconceivable that you could handle that kind of level of basketball, it'd be really tough for me to take you with a top 10 pick. So, you know, we'll see with, with Amen. But there was a little Brad Sellers. Oh wow. So I'm going way back. Like that, we've These guys, yeah, yeah, there's been the tall skinny guys that are face-up guys and they, they make me nervous. So the Illinois kid though, the fact that he wasn't a top 100 high school recruit, 3-star recruit, chance to be a 7, like basically a top 7 pick, I think that's like the craziest story I can remember in a while.

Kyle, is that—

when's the last time that's happened?

Somebody's went from like off the map to top 7 lottery pick in I can't think of a specific name off the top of my head, but I, I've talked to a lot of people. Kingston had a similar thing going on where he was a Puma circuit guy, if I'm not mistaken. And there's an interesting inefficiency that comes down to, is there just video access to these guys? Because Puma's video access just wasn't very good, and Kingston suffered because of that. And Keaton came from like an independent grassroots team, if I'm not mistaken. So he just got played for his high school team. Another guy, Bennett Sturtz, who might end up being a lottery pick for Iowa, was a kid who was just like, I don't care about being on a big grassroots team. He was like, and he's awesome. And he ended up at like D2 and he says kicked ass every level. There's some of these guys that just don't care. And then when they get to the level, they shine. They don't play the game. But it happens more than you would think.

One guy I can think of recently is Cedric Coward. You know, Cedric Coward was completely off the beaten path and then he just kind of came out of nowhere. So he, and he just knows how to play basketball, which I feel like Wogs Clarkler checks that box. And Underwood had never seen him play. He just saw video of him passing and was like, I like this kid. And that's how he ended up at Illinois, which is also insane.

I mean, but at least Coward was in college for a couple years, right? Yeah, this guy's in 12 months has completely changed his thing. It's pretty cool. Tate, odds on LeBron going to one of these Arizona tournament games? -250.

If it's— if they make it to the regional final, he's definitely there. You know, I see Gonzaga, Arizona, LeBron's there, all the Arizona fans are like, this is our time. And then Mark Few somehow wins this game. And then Arizona fans are like, I blame LeBron, you know, like I have to point the finger at somebody.

Not a peep about Bryce.

I mean, isn't it, isn't it crazy?

It's like he got redshirted, right?

Is it? Well, is it?

Yeah.

Well, just him being in the college experience.

Yeah.

We haven't heard any, no LeBron sniffing, nothing. Yeah.

Just, he took his warmup ball for the picture. What do you guys think about that? Like they won the championship and then he took his warmup off for the picture. 'Cause if he looks down 10 years, they're like, he definitely played his warmup.

Off. Kind of smart. You gotta keep the warmup on if you didn't play.

Maybe next year will be the circus.

We'll see. Yeah. All right, so will you guys come back on a week from Tuesday for my pod then? So we can dive back into what happened that first weekend. And then Tate's obviously gonna be on Ringer Gambling, the tailgate, the award-winning Ringer Tailgate Show. He's gonna do some college hoops as well. Oh man. Kyle's gonna be on Ringer NBA talking about this stuff. And when does our first mock draft go up for, for the Ringer?

When are we doing that? Uh, we're finishing it up right now. We're getting all our profiles put together, so we're gonna have a lot to read and a lot to digest coming real soon.

I can't wait. All right, thank you, Kyle. Thank you, Tate. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well. Don't forget, Rewatchables coming tomorrow, putting up a little bit earlier for CR month. I know you guys have been enthralled by CR month, but we have, uh, To Live and Die in LA coming tomorrow, and, uh, I will see you on this podcast on Tuesday. Thanks Everybody must be 21+ in President Select states for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18+ in President DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESEARCH. Set. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 877-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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