Transcript of "Walton Goggins"

Hey, everybody. This is Walton Goggins. I'm the guest on SmartLess today, and I can't wait to have a conversation with these three fellows. Only one of them know that I'm going to be here. So let's get this conversation started. Thanks for listening. Welcome to SmartLess. Smartless.

Wait, who's guest is it today?

Shut up, Sean.

Jason's. You can tell by the attitude.

Fuck you, piece of shit.

Hey, look at Will's on the fucking Western set.

It looks like you have his smoking jacket on.

He's fucking quilted, just self-stitched.

What's it called? Santa Fe, something. Yeah.

Will, how much research? Will's doing a Western thing. Not a Western.

What is it? It's with Michelle Pfeiffer.

Yes. Yeah. He's reprising- By the way, our friend Michelle Pfeiffs, who said to me- It's Michi Fee. Michi Fee. They said, I said... She goes, I know we got to take a break so you can do your podcast. She's being coy.

She said with a mocking tone.

Yeah. I said, yeah- She was very good on the show. I said, You were great on the show. We loved having you, and I hope you got a good response. She said that people came out of the woodwork, too, and that people listened to it. How about that?

That's nice.

People always say, I don't want to do the show. I don't want to do the show. Then they're happy that they do the show. That's right. I don't know.

Don't you feel like we just all slept together in the same cabin somewhere? Because we just did this 10 hours ago.

I know.

You mean?

We just all-Well, let's go back to-Yeah, hang on.

Why is everyone sleeping in a cabin?

Because I'm dressed like I'm in a cabin.

Well, no, that we just all slept in the same house, and then we just woke up for breakfast, and then we started doing this again.

Yeah. Wait, what is your dream?

You know what I mean?

What was for breakfast?

Sushi. I just said sushi.

No, you didn't.

Yeah, I went to Zabar's. You know Zabar is really close.

Oh, yeah. Famous for their sushi.

Zabar's is making sushi.

It's true. I put a jacket on. I went next door, and I ate some sushi. I mean, I brought it home.

Hey, you shit pig. Remember Remember yesterday when you said I just had Chinese food? I thought to myself, self, that sounds really good. I ordered some Chinese for me last night in Naples. Oh, you did? How about that? We had Chinese for the first time in a long time. Why was it good?

That's right. What did you have?

I was wondering about your face because I could see there was something... Will.

Wait till you see my face after a sushi lunch today. Yeah.

Wait, do you get anything naughty when you order Chinese, like breaded chicken or breaded something or is it all like a bamboo shoots? No.

We had a couple of chicken dishes and a noodle dish and some vegetables. Because I said to Amanda, I said, You order, baby. I don't want to. Don't let me see anything on the menu because I'll order Sean's food.

She went totally clean and everything.

It was good and it was great.

All right, wait, Will, one of the grossest images I ever witnessed in my life was going over to Jason's house, and he's swimming in his pool in the backyard while-Yeah, you're right. Gross. Amanda has a big hat on covering the sun. From the pool on his floaty, he goes, Honey, can we get some sushi for lunch? While he's baking in the sun, it's so Hollywood-Hashtag relatable.

He FaceTime me once floating on a floaty in his pool. I was like, and all I thought about was Obviously, Ernest Borgnine in the pool. By the way, it just reminded me, I forgot to tell you. So a little while ago, I run into Griffin Dunn, our old pal, Griffin Dunn.

The great Griffin Dunn.

The great Griffin Dunn. So Griffin Dunn tells... So he says, I've been meaning to see. I've been meaning to tell you this story. I've been meaning to tell you this story. He said, Years ago, This is public record. He said, When Ernest Borgnheim was getting divorced, his wife cited one of the problems that she cited in the court record was of their differences, that she found that as a problem, as grounds for divorce, was that Ernest Borgnheim would Dutch oven her. He'd fart in the bed and pull the covers over her head.

Is that real? Is that real?

Swear to God. Apparently, and I looked it up, it's true. She hated it, and she was disgusted by it. So He was like, I got to tell Will. I got to call him. So he had my old phone number because I haven't spoken to him in four years or something, and I switched my number. So he keeps... He's sending me stuff, and he calls me The guy goes, Hello. And he goes, Hey, listen, now this thing about griff. He goes, Hey, Will. And the guy says, Yeah. And then he goes, Listen, Ernest Borgenheim and the thing and the reason he got divorced in the Dutch oven, this stuff. And the guy goes, This isn't Will. Okay, he's changed his number, and that is Why would you think I'd want to know this discussing?

That's really funny.

Listener, as a backstory, you should know that I bought Ernest Borgnine's old house. Years ago. Years ago. Will has been writing me for years that what I've done is I've made a bad purchase because-Not a bad purchase. Well, when you consider that supposedly, Ernest Borgnine was a world world-class masturbator.

He credited his longevity with the fact that he claimed that he masturbated every day.

I've always imagined him everywhere in the house leaning against the rail. I don't know why.

It's a good track. It's It's in the pool, too, Will. There's also lots of farts stuck in the master.

Okay, got it. When Ernest Cork night, no, no.

That is crazy. Welcome to Smartless.

I've been meaning to tell That's what we're doing.

I'm not going to do that. All right, let me pull up my notes here. Oh, yeah.

It comes from our guest. It comes from our guest.

It's organized.

All right. I've written a little intro. Where is it? Here it comes. What we've got here today.

It's so smooth. God. Stop shouting.

Well, we're back from commercial. What we've got here today is an actor, an exciting actor. This guy knows how to put you on his back and carry you into the world of some pretty interesting characters. Some are funny, some are scary, some are dark, some are breezy. Whatever it is, though, it's always a good ride. He's the actor that gives you the grin of expectation and the feeling of relief that you're in good hands for wherever you're going. Guys, I write these myself. You can tell. He was born in an Alabama, raised in Georgia, moved to Hollywood at 19, and has brought us iconic roles in films like Django Unchained, The Hateful 8. And on TV, he's given us gold in shows like The Shield, Vice Principal's Righteous Gemstones, a recently White Lotus, and Fallout. Dudes, here's Mr. Walton Goggins Jr.

Yo, man.

Here he is.

Now we get it started.

I didn't know that you had to masturbate every day to lead Mikael's Navy.

You got to get the evil out if you want to stick around a while. Damn it.

I wanted to get that show.

Why do you look so sharp today? You're in a suit with everything. You're in a suit with everything.

You're in the middle of a junket.

Yeah, in the middle. Day, I think three or four, something like that. No, really? Yeah. But this is the first one for today.

We got you fresh.

So I'm doing okay. You got to be fresh.

This is for fallout?

Yeah, for fallout. Yeah, this is fallout. I know that there's a surprise guest, and I saw Will the other night. I know. Did you keep it zipped? You were so good. I didn't know who invited me.

Who the host was.

Dude, you were so good. No idea. I was focused on your full-length the other coat you were wearing, and it was 100 degrees in that room.

So was I because I was sweating. I lost 10 pounds that night. It was great.

Oh, my God. Hey, so here's the deal. Mgt, maybe we've just sniffed out what maybe the hole is sometimes when every once in a while, Walton, a guest will come up to one of the three of us and say, Hey, can't wait to see you next week. Or the rep. Or their rep or something like that. So what I think is the guest needs to be told, Michael, who the hosting fella is. They're told.

The rest are told. They are told. They are told. We're keeping that in. We're keeping that they're told in.

The host, the guest, knows who the hosts are. This is smartness, man.

No, but your people didn't tell you.

Yes, that's right.

They did not tell. You know who we need to be speaking to are Walton's representatives because they- They got them on the phone.

They're in the room. Some of them are in the room right now. Do you hear that? Why didn't you tell me? Honestly.

It doesn't matter. They have no idea what's going on in this conversation. It's truly just to cut down on homework for the other two. What's up, fellows? What's up, bud? It's so good to meet you. You're out there with the sandwich board for the fallout.

I am. Yeah, we're just starting.

Let's just jump off right there. How are you enjoying- God, he loves to jump off. What's the pre-call?

I love to jump off.

I just love to. What's the pre-call on that? You got a two-hour pre-call there for the makeup chair?

Yeah, man. It's like three hours before anybody else shows up. It got so bad. Not so bad, but we filmed the first season in New York for some reason, honestly.

Well, because you've got a place there, a beautiful place there in the Hudson Valley. They thought maybe we'll make it geographically attractive for Mr. Goggins.

But never saw it. Never left the city, really, except to go to Namibia. But we're out here now, and we were out filming in the desert. I've got this van that like so many other people- That you rent back to the company and you call it your dressing room? As a matter of fact, I do.

Wait, what?

It's working. Yeah, it's working.

What are you talking about? When you're a fancy pants like Walton and you're working all the time, the smart money is spent on a motorhome or a van or something like that. You buy it yourself. Yeah. And then you rent it back to the production as your dressing room. And so they give you the money for or dressing room rental. It all pays for itself. It pays for itself.

Kind of. I mean, it's a little harder in New York than it is in Los Angeles. Parking on eighth Avenue. Parking is very expensive there.

Parking tickets offset the rental fee. Yeah, but it did.

It worked out. It worked out. But so we got to a point where we were filming out in the desert a few times. And then I just stayed for the first time. I don't know if you guys have ever done this, but I stayed at base camp. Everybody else- You slept in your trailer overnight? Really bad hotel It's like in the middle of nowhere.

You slept at the location?

Yeah, at the location with a security guard. Everybody else leaves. I just had my food.

Did you stick them for the hotel money, too? Give me that.

Yeah, I got those $60. At a boy. I said, No, come on.

I love it. Let me have that, too. You have your shower and a little kitchen in there and everything.

Yeah, everything. It was only four steps to work. You didn't shower in there. My call time was... I did shower there. Did you? Yeah, as a matter of fact, every single night. Yeah, of course. You got to shower when you have that water. Jason would never use that water. On your face.

Jason would never use that water. Jason, you'd never use trailer water, right?

Yeah, no, exactly. I don't want to smell like a hose. I have filtered. I only use... But, Walk, you do strike me as a fella. You do strike me as a fella that is not afraid to walk barefoot on a hotel rug.

No, I walk barefoot across the desert. Exactly.

You're a guy that you're much... I'm a soft man. You don't seem like a soft fellow at all. You can handle quite a bit of taking away the creature comforts.

You know what? I had an experience where all the creature comforts were taken away. I didn't realize how many they were going to take away. But I took my... I'm a father. Sure. I know there's two other parents here and Sean, you have a dog. Stop bragging. I know that's... Yeah, hey. I just have one, so I can not take a job for a while. But I took him. He was 14, right? About to turn 15. And it's like, Okay, well, this is a big transition in your life, and we need to mark this occasion. I took him on a two-week horseback riding trip across Western Mongolia. Oh, wow. Yeah. No, it was a big deal. How old is he? It was a big deal. He's 14. He'll be 15 in about six weeks. It was just an opportunity for us to get out there and see the world. That's cool. We're both obsessed with Genghis Khan.

Jason would be stressed going to the first class lounge in Mongolia. It would be actually air Mongolia.

Where are you going to find a TV with CNN International or coffee pods or anything like that?

You don't get a signal, man.

But where do you... Again, you do strike me as a guy who's so... There's a lot of texture in your life. I'm surrounded with thread count and things like that.

I like thread count, too.

I know, but you know how to do both.

I like Mongolia and Kashmir. I like all of those things. But on this trip, here's what happened. Other than maybe we'll get to a parenting moment with my son, which was extraordinary. Yeah, I wanted to see it. I wanted to hear that. But on day Three. I mean, it took us about 72 hours just to get to the starting point and stopped and missed a flight, spent the night in Istanbul, which is, Hey, throw me in the briar patches. I love that place. And we made it to Alam Bitar. Then another plane landed in Western Mongolia, and then an eight-hour drive to just the starting point. We got there, and it was just the two of us. We're obsessed with that part of the world. And then we meet everybody. Nobody speaks English. We have an interpreter. It's just the two of us. Five horses, seven horses, five camels, and an interpreter, two horsemen, an eagle hunter. Who sets this up? And a cook, man. It's legit. It's the real deal. And we're both in the tent the first night looking at each other going, we're here, man. We did it. And the very first when we landed in Western Mongolia, my son looked at me and he said, I've never been this happy in my life, dad.

So he's got that wanderlust like I do. So cut to day two, something like it happened. And he was like, wow, this is, excuse my language, this is really fucking hard, dad. This is This is hard. This is really hard. And he was missing his mom and missing his life. And I said, you know what, buddy? I understand it is hard. You're absolutely right about it. It's very, very hard. And you can be in this place and I'll hold you and I'll love you and I'll comfort you in this time. Or you can... He said he really wanted to go home. And I said, okay, but I'll hold you and I'll comfort you for as long as you want. I mean, for the next twelve days. Or you can accept that this is your reality. You're not changing this reality. And you can let that fester and you can react to that. Or you can accept the fact that this is your reality and actually learn and not waste that energy. Just tuck in. It's up to you. And literally at 14 years old, he said, Can I use the battery? Because you don't have cell phones.

We only have little bitty batteries with us or whatever. It's like, you can use the battery. If you use it up, whatever you want. He's like, I just need to listen to some music. He did. He sat in the tent. He came out about 45 minutes later and he just looked up at me with this big, beautiful grin on his face.

With a plane ticket. No, I'm kidding. Yeah, with a plane.

And he thumbs up like, I'm good, dad. I'm good. And then, so it's like, okay, he got through that. The next morning, I'm on the horse. We're all leaving this whole caravan. It takes a whole process of getting ready to go. I've been riding horses my whole life. My son is an unbelievable rider, and my horse just trips. I went down. I didn't see it coming. Oh, now he's got to go home. Yeah, she rolled on top of me.

Now it needs to be held.

Exactly. Well, this is what happened. She rolled on top of me, and I was able to push her off thinking like, Oh, my God, I just broke my leg. That's it. Looked down, I was like, Okay, leg's Everything's okay. And then I went to stand up and I immediately collapsed. Something was wrong. Something was really wrong. And my son looked at me and was like, Dad, are you okay? I was like, Yeah, dude, I'm okay. All right. I got up on the horse, rode for seven hours, don't remember it, had a couple of Advil. My wife threw in a bag. What I realized after a few days is that I broke my rib. Oh, God. And then all of a sudden, I'm taking the advice that I just gave my son because it's like, Hey, man, nobody's coming to get you. You're in the middle of nowhere. There is no helicopter coming to air vacue out of here, man, meta-vacue out of here. You got to go. You got to ride. And so it was another nine days.

Where is that in pain? Where is that?

That is... Dude, Jay, are you going to tell this story about- Do I have some cred?

Do I have some cred now?

Jay, you're about to tell this story about when that guy didn't have your valet ticket at the Governor's Awards?

Yeah, and I'm like, Hey, man.

You waited 10 minutes for them to sort your limo. You remember that?

A solid 10 minutes. This happened two days ago. I had to talk to a bunch of people I didn't want to talk to. Yeah.

My tucks was itchy. With gift bags in your hands. Yeah.

Then we offered to hold him.

Well, where Where'd you get this thick skin, emotionally, spiritually? Did you have a couple of good parents?

Well, I think we all have thick skin. It's just a matter of being exposed to it. Look, I'm a poor kid from Georgia, and my parents were divorced when I was three years old. And I grew up around a bunch of, when I say crazy- You say it with love. With love, yeah. Curious and really colorful. I like that. Colorful Southern women. And a little bitty farmhouse outside of Atlanta. And, yeah, we didn't have we didn't have anything. We didn't have central air. We had a heater that emitted... I mean, it is the cause of global warming, this one particular burnish that we had in our house. And, yeah, we just didn't have much. But we didn't want for much. And I don't know, I just think growing up that way-What about all this all this privilege and luxury and-I love it.

Elitism that you're rolling around with every once in a while? You think is it getting you soft?

I love it. Yeah, it's fine. No, dude, is it getting me soft? Yeah, I mean, I suppose. Everybody has a new normal.

But you know how to categorize it, right? I think so. You're still able to go to Mongolia and get along. Absolutely.

Can I ask you some questions about that story? That it's crazy.

I just can't believe I'm talking to three of you, man. This is just so- Likewise. There's two of you I know, and Sean, I don't know. So, yes, ask me anything.

We went to... Sean and I went to Istanbul once.

Okay.

What? Yeah, we went to Istanbul.

Don't make it together. They were at the Four Seasons there, the That's true.

That is true.

But, if you remember, a week after we left was a big terrorist attack.

Do you remember that? I know. A week after we got out of there. Wow.

We'll be right back. Now, back to the show.

The broken rib, how do you get through that many days?

This is going to be about ribs at Chinchin. Okay.

It's really interesting. How do I get through with a broken rib?

Yeah, I get you through that many nine days. What do you do with the pain and how do you heal? What do you do?

He's hard, man. He can do it.

No, but I didn't know what was happening. I got to be honest with you, man, I felt like, oh, maybe this is internal bleeding. Maybe this is it. I was scared, but I tried not to show that to my son. I said, when we got to this particular, the next location after that seven-hour ride, and I crawled into this tent. I mean, they took me off this horse, which, by the way, I had the only horse in Mongolia with Alzheimer's, man. She had no idea who I was. It's like, Man, I've been riding you for eight hours a day, man. I didn't even stop for lunch. I've only been gone for 20 minutes, man. I'm here. I don't have a cent. I mean, really? But no, I craw into this tent and I looked at my son and I said, Listen, man, I'm going to take this Advil and we're going to see if I wake up with any relief. And if it is, then I think we're going to be okay. Everything's fine. And I did. I fell asleep. I don't even remember falling asleep. I woke up, I don't know, three hours later or something like that.

And I felt marginally better, right? Because I'd found a place that wasn't so painful, Sean. And then I was able to make it out of the tent. I walked in. I mean, I'm in Mongolia. It's the best horse people in the world. They had an idea of what it was. And then while I was sleeping, they fermented a bunch of Yack vodka. Sure. Yack milk. And so I just, I drank. We killed a goat that day. Jesus Christ. And I drank this Yack vodka. They just went to be left there for the next thing. We had these two gallons of Yack vodka. In the morning, with coffee and follow it with a shot of Yack Vodka and a little bit of Advil.

You can't get that at the Marriott.

Just a mouthful of goat.

Yeah, exactly. We had no refrigeration for that goat, but we ate that goat every way one can eat a goat.

I can't think of anything I'd rather not do.

Just watch Jason's face. Really?

Because I'm going to invite all of you on the next trip.

I would have an uncomfortable time just researching that trip.

You know what? Okay, this is reading about it.

The websites I'd have to go to to research this would have a font and a user interface that would be esthetically unappealing to me, let alone go to the country.

It's wrong with me. You know what? Because my son was at this age, I said, and he's obsessed, I got a smart kid, you all. He's a very, very, very bright, very curious man. I can't even say young Young man, because if you sit with him, you feel like you're talking to somebody's been-How old is he now, Walton? He's still 14, man. He's 14, okay. He's a New Year's Day, baby.

So this was a recent trip?

Oh, man, I just got back two months ago, man.

How's your rib now?

You know, better. I mean, look, it's such a long story, but it made it... It kept going. And day three, it took me... That's when it got really bad. And it took me an hour and a half just to get out of the tent. I'd wake up before my kid did just so that he didn't see me that way.

So you'd go do this trip again? Oh, yeah.

With you guys, the four of us.

You won't find me that. I'll drive you to the airport. That's it.

What about a safari in Africa?

I'm in. What's the most adventurous experience that you've ever given yourself? Go ahead. Yeah.

Well, right before COVID hit, I booked a Scotty thing where we were going to go on the Orient Express. It's like his dream to go on that train across Europe. That's the most extravagant thing I would have ever done. But that's on a fancy train.

You didn't wind up.

You didn't-No, because COVID happened. Have you ever done anything out of nature, though, either of you guys?

Well, I did A day's worth of work. Schedule F on a Nightrider episode once. They had me in a Honeywagon. Honeywagens, let me tell you something. If you're looking to stretch out and catch a nap at lunch, you're fucked. Schedule F?

Yeah, you are. In the forest. Schedule F.

Yeah, that's hard. Yeah, your legs are straight up and they're flat. Your feet are flat against the wall.

You can't do it. You got the xylophone wall that you're hearing everybody's business next door. I don't recommend it.

You remember your roommate? You remember who it was?

Some old Timer, bless his heart.

Some old Timer.

Jack Elam. Might have been Jack Elam.

I don't think... I would go if it was like, the kids say glamping. If it was...

Because I love- What we should do, I did. When I was your son's age, I was 15, I did a three and a half week canoe trip up in Northern Ontario. What was that? That was 1985. We got dropped off on the side of a road, and it was three and a half weeks of canoeing, and it ended up being a whole thing. We got way behind because the maps were so old. We had to portage every day for the last eight days. Portage. We had to get rescued by. We paddled into this bay, and we knew we were way behind, and we had to meet a bus at a highway. And we knew we were hundreds of kilometers or miles or whatever behind. And we paddled. We paddled into a bay. You didn't see anybody. And there was no roads up there. There's nothing. It was way up Northern Ontario. And we paddled on this corner. There was a cabin there. We saw some people there, and they dropped. Sometimes they drop people, a lot of Americans off for fishing for a week on a seaplane. And there's a couple there, and we paddled up to their dock, and they're like, Are you boys okay?

By the way, I never let Mike... We were all 15, and then the two guides were 18. So the five of us and then two guides. And we were like, we're in trouble. And at which point, the plane that worked for that company drove by and saw our canoes and came and he landed and asked us the situation. He said, okay, well, we'll get in touch with somebody. This is way before cell phones and all that shit. And we were like, what's going to happen? And then two hours later, we see a twin Otter come and land. And it's the Ministry Natural Resources. They picked us up and we strapped a couple of our canoes to the pontoons, and we took off and we got out of there. The craziest thing was at the end of this bay, there were these two small islands really close together, and on each island was a wing. We were like, what's that? We're like, What's that? They're like, Oh, back in the '50s, a plane tried to take off. It was too heavy, and it didn't make it. It sheared off both wings.

Oh, my God.

We're like, Are we okay? Then the guy's like, Bush pilot. He's like, Oh, yeah, we'll be fine. No worries.

Were you scared? Did you Did you remember that feeling of being- About day four of us being way behind, we started to get a little bit scared.

It was just we were out there, and we was like, nobody knew where we were.

Anyway, I couldn't eat when they broke for first team. I had to wait till background. I had to eat when background ate. I'm like, Guys, I've got a line. I'm saying a couple of lines today. And they're like, No, we're going to want you to- Look at my sides. Stay in holding, and then we'll let you know we got to get first team through first.

I had to eat when background ate.

But I made it.

You made it. You made it.

You look great, Jay.

Walton, you grew up in Georgia. Can you say... God, it's hot there. Anything specifically from that area that has shaped you into the actor you are today? I mean, I guess you basically said it. It seasoned you a bit, right?

I was going to say this. I don't know if it's Georgia, but also the way that you live your life and you're talking about the stuff you do, you have such an unbelievably free wheeling style. I mean, that is the greatest as such a compliment. You bring something to every role that you do. No BS. You bring this life, this free wheeling thing that is so fucking alive and fantastic every time you light it up, man. I wonder if that is because of your background, dude.

I've been exposed to stuff. He's got things to draw on.

Look, that's a lot coming from this a group of men because I am such big fans of all of you, as you know. I mean, Sean, you don't, but I am. Well, that's very sweet.

Likewise.

I genuinely live every day like it's my last day. And what I mean by that is I know what it's like to be hungry. I know what it's like to be cold. I know what it's like to be uncomfortable. I know now what it's like to wear really nice clothes. Because I've had this beautiful run and to wear... Do wear them well. Well, that's very you say. But it's like, well, why do you think these people are letting you wear these clothes? I said, because I'm wearing them like, I'll never get to wear them again. And that's the truth.

And I mean that, and that's okay, too. You do have an allergy to buttons, though. And just like Justin, he's got an allergy to sleeves. What do you say with you two? You're in a fight with the clothes.

Hey, man, I'm taking my cues off Richard Deere. I'm taking my cues off. You know what? I did a movie with Richard, man. I did a movie with Richard, this was a few years ago, and it was with Dinklage and Bradley. We were sitting there and it was really, really tired. It was a long, long day. I looked at him and I said, Man, I'm so tired. I'm really tired. You must be tired, Richard. He said, You know what? You're right. I am. I'm very tired. He said, But you know the Is there a difference between you and me? I said, No, man. What's the difference? He said, Tomorrow morning, when I wake up, I'll still be Richard Gear. Motherfucker. You won't. You motherfucker, man. You're exactly right. You will be. So it's okay. You're okay. That's really funny.

Now, all right. You pack up from Georgia. You You go to a Georgia Southern University. I think I got that right. You do a year there and you say, You want to know what? I think I know what I want to do. You jump. Did you ride horseback from Georgia out to Los Angeles? Yeah, I did. I rode a horse. I've seen this entire nation.

Yeah, I took a long way around. You tied that horse up. I went with the northern route, then came back, and then took the southern route just to get in LA.

You pulled in to Los Angeles there at 19. Wow, not on your own. You start the process of chasing the dream. Was it a difficult thing to get an agent and get auditions right away? Did you have a colorful first job to pay the bills during this process? What was that first year?

Look, we all have our stories, right? There was no way I was ever going to go to New York. A vertically integrated city was way above my pay grade. I couldn't handle that living life.

Sorry, because you thought New York would be too expensive to live in?

Well, too expensive, but so radically different, right? Yeah. Right? Then the life that I grew up-The urban sprawl. Well, not sprawl. No, I grew up in the country with space, a little bit of space.

And a big family, a little family?

No. Well, I have a half brother now, but at the time, I was really raised and an only child, and it was my mom and her three sisters and my grandmother and my cousin who's like, she's my aunt's daughter, like my sister. And then all of these crazy, crazy Southern hippies, all of these guys. I had just a lot of people that came through my life.

So New York was too much of a cultural shock, potentially. Well, maybe on some level, absolutely.

And I also think that I was just really attracted to the West and the idea. Growing up in a place where the biggest view that you have is a football field, because of all the pines and all the rest of it. I just love the idea of seeing from miles in any direction. And so, yeah, I left at 19, drove across country with my dad, believe it or not. Oh, right. And I had a number. But I watched. I'm not without people in my life that were in this business in the sense that my aunt was an actress in the theater and her husband, my uncle. So I grew up watching them on stage. Sure. But I really didn't... I like doing this. I did like doing it. I didn't know this was what I was going to do for the rest of my life. I just really wanted to see the world.

But when you landed day one, what do you do? What was your plan?

Well, I started working in Atlanta. I started working like... Yeah, like Kyle Chandler was in this group and my buddy Ray McKinnon. And there There was a lot going on in Atlanta at that time. I got a few gigs there. One was a pretty big one called murder in Mississippi. It was nominated for eight Golden Globes with a bunch of really great actors in it. I got an agent pretty quick because I'd come out before.

And they said, Come on out.

Yeah, I that. I don't know. They were reluctant. I don't know why they took me, to be quite honest with you. But I didn't know. I had a guy's phone number, and when I first got dropped off- At the Oakwoods. No, I got dropped off at this woman. I worked with her husband, and she was a manager. And I actually put this on my inside version of it on my Instagram. But I got dropped off at this apartment. Woman, her husband, picked me up and I got back to her apartment right off like Sierra Bonita in Hollywood Boulevard. And she asked me to sign this paper, and I said, I just don't really know. I don't think I should do that. I don't even know what I am. And she said, Well, if you don't sign it, then you have to leave. I said, Well, I don't have anywhere to go. And she said, Well, you got to figure that out. I said, Well, can I just spend the night? I'll be out of here first thing in the morning. She said, Yeah. And I left first thing the next morning. And I had an audition, actually, with a cast director by the name of Pam Dixon.

And I sat, I was there four and a half hours early and with my luggage. And she said, What, you've been the whole time? I said, Yeah. She said, Well, just bring your stuff inside. Just hang out. And I did, and didn't get the job. But afterwards, I had a phone number from a guy that I'd worked with, and I ran into it, a Rio Bravo in Atlanta. And I called it, and he answered the phone, a pay phone. And he said, Yeah, man, I'll come pick you up. You can stay with us. And that was it. That was the beginning. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had 300 bucks in my pocket and then got a job like everybody else. What job?

What were you doing?

La fitness. Sure. 5: 00 AM to 9: 00 AM shift, making four bucks an hour.

Were you checking folks in or were you a personal trainer?

Checking them in, man. Yeah. And the shittiest shift. Giving them locker keys. Yeah. There was nobody there. Shower flippers. Just me. Do you remember where that was?

Which LA fitness that was?

Yeah, Oxnard and Coldwater.

Oh, in the valley? Yeah.

Oh, with the racquetball courts. I used to play racquetball in there.

Did you? As a matter of fact, they did. Yeah, did they have that? Sure. They must have had that.

They did have that on the LA River. On the LA River.

Would you play there with Schwartz? Yeah.

Johnny Schwartz.

Johnny Schwartz. Would you guys play there? Johnny Schwartz.

He'd kick my ass every day.

Where were you living at that point? Were you living in- I was living at the top of the Sunset Tower.

That's where he kept his course.

That's where you started your journey in Los Angeles.

Listen, I will say, Walton, it's not surprising. Again, I'm going to get down to what I know from you over the years, and that this stuff opened up because you come in life with such It's a great positive attitude. It is a really great, not to get too weird, but it is a great example of you come out, you make a call, you're open, you're very positive, and you get in life what you put into it. It's almost like, I think that that lesson, again, that you gave your son, I mean, this is all part of a bigger, if you take a broader view, that you've just got this great vibe. And again, it's no surprise to me, man.

People want to hang out with you.

Yeah. How do you say? Well, I mean, look, we all have our path, right? How did we get that first job? How did we get a second job? How did we get a decade later, 20 years later? I mean, I've been at this 30 something years, 35 years. I just don't compare myself to anybody else, really.

That's so crucial, isn't it? Yeah.

We have a lot of friends in common. I've got a lot of friends who are a lot more successful than I am and a lot that aren't. But it's the same, right? Sure.

We're all the same.

Yeah. Yeah, it is. I mean, we really are.

Sean was saying something interesting because we were talking about this thing I went to the other night, and Sean said, Isn't it funny That no matter what, on a certain level, nobody thinks that they've made it. I don't care who you are because you're always trying to, right? You're always... There's no... People are like, Oh, you made it. I haven't made it. I'm thinking about, how do I... Right?

Everybody else thinks. They say, and it's this great line, I just saw the movie Jay Kelly, which is pretty good. George Clooney says that he spent his whole life trying to get something that he thought he really wanted, and then he got it, and then he realized, Oh, wait, it's not over. Now I got to keep it. It's like, so no matter where you are, even if you think you're there, you still got to work on trying to keep it if you care to.

Do you think they'll put your quote on the poster, Jay Kelly? Pretty good.

Pretty good.

Why not? On the back. Yeah, on Sunset Boulevard. There it is.

It's pretty good. I highly recommend.

Can I ask you, gentlemen, something? Do you ever... Do you get insecure walking into a room? I mean, yes, in general. Every day. I live my life Every moment.

Yeah, right?

Walking into a room?

Walking into a room with an event or a bunch of actors or writers or directors, like something affiliated with this business.

I I don't get insecure about status because I don't care about it. I get insecure about carrying a conversation.

Carrying a conversation? Yeah. Really? Yeah. You're in the incredible conversationalist.

No, but the work that it takes for me to get up to being a good conversationalist is exhausting. It's exhausting. Yeah, it's exhausting being interested in somebody you're sitting next to at a table with placards with your name on it next to somebody you don't know and you have to...

Start from scratch.

Hey, what's going on? You know what I mean? I get anxiety about that, but not so much about status. I don't care about status.

No, not anymore.

I think that I'm just naive, and I don't know what it is. I'm blessed with that. It's just like, I just don't have any sense. I had a really cool... I was doing this interview thing the other day. It's going to come out. I had the pleasure of sitting next to Benicio Del Toro. That's somebody I would like to sit next to. The woman said, this idea of imposter syndrome. She said, Do you guys ever suffer from imposter syndrome? She said, Benicio. He goes, What is that? I was like, Oh, man. That's wild. That was so dope. She goes, No, you know that thing? And he goes, I don't know what that is. I was like, Fuck.

That would make me feel even more of an imposter.

But it was so dope.

That would send me over the edge.

But But at the same time, it was so cool because it was such a great lesson of you don't have to. You can let that go. And he has it naturally in the most beautiful way. But like, oh, yeah, you don't have to have it.

That's right. I've gotten aware. I've just gotten... It scares me a little bit, but I've gotten really comfortable at work. You know what I mean? And that's not a feeling that I'm comfortable with. I like to be when I'm working, I'm not very social. I'm alone. I'm just off doing my thing. And then you come in. I don't hang out and just small talk. I don't have the energy. I'm like you, Sean. I get exhausted.

Yeah, me too. I'm an introvert for sure.

Yeah.

But you know what, David, famous David. I just looked it up, the David Bowie quote. I love this. You probably know it. Aging is an extraordinary process whereby you become the person you always should have been. So all of this stuff that we're talking about, I think the older you get, the more you're like, I can walk into a room because who gives a shit?

I just had an extraordinary experience, and who knows if it'll translate, but I am up here doing this thing. Where are you, by the way, man? I'm in Montana, outside of Bozeman, Montana.

He's in the back of an in and out.

I'm doing this. I have the pleasure of doing these scenes with the great Michelle Pfeiffer. Jay, what do you call her? M Fife?

Michi Feef.

Michi Feef. She's so brilliant. I just had this moment, and I think it's age. I don't know if it's age or what it is. I could just say it honestly, that I was just there doing this thing, and we're literally shooting on the edge of this river that's out there that's beautiful. What I'm looking at is insanely beautiful. And then snowcap mountains in the distance and the thing. And we're about to go, what am I doing in this scene? And what am I doing? I just went like, oh, man. I literally was It was like, anything can happen. Just enjoy it. Just be right here. And then it was just like, unreal. Incredible. Yeah. I'm just letting go. I don't think I could have done it as a younger man. I think that as I'm getting older, I've just let go of so many hang-ups.

Well, because you asked that, do you have that? Because you asked us that, do you have?

Are you still- Well, I guess what I was getting at, just to hear your experiences. Yeah, I think that I just carried so much of the The people that I've gotten to play. They're pretty lonely. They're nefarious, and they got a lot going on, and they're under a lot of pressure, mentally and emotionally, for the most part. And so I quite enjoy being in that state, in that place, especially at work. But something happened recently where it's similar, but I just showed up like, Yeah, hi, how are you? And I was just not... And I was there. I'd read the script 250 times. I know what's happening. But all of a sudden, I just didn't need that anymore. I mean, it's like the difference between your 20s and your 30s, and then for me, becoming a father at 39, so let's call it 40s, and then learning how to be a parent. Oh, God, oh, God. Now I'm a parent. I'm in my 50s, and that's okay. I know how to be a parent. I feel like I know how to tell stories, and I I enjoy it more than I've ever enjoyed it. So it's just a new experience for me.

I don't have that.

But it's freeing, though, right?

It is so free, man. Yeah, I love that. It is. It's so free. I love it.

We'll be right back. And now back to the show.

Well, do you feel that... Because we do this thing where we're playing people, and I I think all four of us are interested in playing people that don't have it all together, people that are somewhat broken in an interesting way and vulnerable and human and have flaws and all that stuff. Have you felt like we're talking about as we get older, we get better, right? Just as people. Do you think that that's at odds with playing characters that don't have it all together? Like, as we're starting to get our shit together as we get older, it's at odds with playing characters that are a little bit broken. Then, in fact, as you get more and more successful, maybe, as we were joking about earlier, you get a little bit soft because things are privileged around you and luxurious and stuff. Do you fight that embrace of success? Does it go against what you like to live in? You know what?

That's a great question. I would ask you all to answer that question, too. But because I think we're told a lie early on that you got to struggle. You got to live in it. You have to be fucked up to play fucked up people. The truth is, no, man, you can just be really evolved and not create distance between yourself and that experience, actually really empathize with these people. And I think that's where I've gotten to in my life. And outside of... I I generally empathize with human beings. I believe that all of our paths are by nature, narcissistic. We cast ourselves as the antagonist and the protagonist in our own story, and we just watch how we interface with the fucking world. When you step outside of that, when you really step outside of that narcissistic DNA quality of survival, all of a sudden the world just becomes... It's just easier. Life is easier. It's It's just calmer. And I'm calmer. And I feel that happening in my professional life. It's happened... God, I had such a hard time. I watched you guys on Kimmel, the three of you on Kimmel. And I listened, I saw you, Sean, and I saw how far you sat and speaking about your anxiety.

And I still have it on some level, but I had it. I really had It's also a little bit of a superpower, but yeah. It is a superpower. And getting ready to walk into a room for people that experience that, it's like, okay, I'm going to show... Because I show up for shit. You know what I mean? That's right. I show up for a conversation and nothing is half-ass. That's right. I show up for everything. And if you put that much into it, if you care that much about it, well, then... And it's not performative. It's not a performance. But it takes a lot from you. And on the other side of that, you got to just be be alone and quiet and do all of that. I envy people that can just fucking move through it, man, without expending a ton of energy and still be just as charming and all the rest of it.

I know. I know. Me too.

Yeah, but I wonder if that- Very similar. Because there have been times when I have been less insecure and really just cruised through it and not really... I just don't feel like, while I might have a lesser level of anxiety, I just don't feel like I'm participating as much. I don't feel like I'm feeling the day as much. I like being insecure in as many things and situations as I can. I just feel like I'm a little bit more eyes open, ears open, heart open, if I am. I worry when I get too comfortable. Anyway. All right. You come out to LA, you start working. Do you remember what that job was that gave you a little bit of like, Oh, wow, I think I might be able to make a living at this. Some people have raised some eyebrows. I'm getting some calls. Was there one that initiated the momentum that you've kept going since then?

Yeah, very specific. We've all had many before this happened and after this happened events in our life. I valley parked. I sold cowboy boots. Then I became a personal trainer at the same gym that I started this thing. I did all of that. Then Then I got this movie called The Apostle with Robert DeVall.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You're so good. I love that movie. You're great.

But I was 24 years old, and it was through the process of telling that story and the relationship that I had with Bobby on the other side of that that I felt like, okay, I can... You know what, man? Because I always were. I worked as soon as I got here. I was very, very fortunate. I'm a poor kid, Georgia. I just squirled it away, always, and just lived off whatever I made, doing whatever job that I was doing. But at that point, I thought, well, you know what? I'm not going to do that anymore. And I'm just going to focus on this. And then I don't think people really knew what to do with me, because on the other side of that, thinking my manager who was actually sitting here was my manager then. And she leaned in my ear or somebody that she was with, leaned in my ear and said, hey, man, your life's about to change. That's good. Because it was a Toronto Film Festival or whatever. And then on the other side of it, people just thought, well, this guy's just fucking from there. He's just a local hire.

They thought you weren't even like an actor.

You were a real-Yeah, exactly. It's like, okay.

What a compliment.

I guess it is to Bobby DeVall. That's what he says. And then I just kept cruising. I just said yes in life more than I said no. My 20s weren't under a microscope. I just got to do my thing.

But now when you walk down the street, you're getting stopped. You have been for years. But what's your relationship with that? Do you feel like those are two separate people, the person that the public recognizes, wants to talk to? Or have you been able to incorporate that into what seems to be an incredibly authentic person? From the very beginning, you've been very tapped into keeping it real, not being full of shit, no artifice, no veneer. Yet the public basically has a say on who they think you are as well. Sometimes, Fame, there's a discomfort with merging those two things. Have you made a fan of that?

Oh, you know what? Honestly, whether you like it or whether you like me or you don't like me, I am me. Me. I am me privately. I am me publicly. Anybody that knows me very, very well listening to this podcast would say, Yeah, he's the exact same. And interfacing with people on the street, this is no bullshit.

No, because editing yourself everywhere you go is exhausting, too.

It's like, Oh, I got to be this person. Yeah, because the person who's not full of shit, who's no BS, would be at a dinner table and enjoying your conversation with your friend. Then a fan would come up and ask for a picture or something. The person who's truly no bullshit would say, Hey, man, I'm having dinner. I can't do that right now. But this is like an example.

Kurt Russell would say that. Kurt Russell did say that. He called somebody out who said, I'm a pilot. He's like, No, you're fucking not. You're not a pilot. Tell me about this thing. But that's not my personality. That's not where I come from. That's not how I was raised. For me, and I really mean this, man, when I'm stopped on the street, it has been a lot, and it has been a lot over the last two or three years. But honestly, man, I feel like I can provide for my family. It just means that somebody else is going to hire me.

And we have a public job. That's part of the job.

It is part of the job. And I genuinely love meeting people. I I don't know. I live my life differently in that way. And I never meet a stranger. I like even where we live now, which is radically different than where we've lived our entire life. I My friends are the painter and the plumber and the artist and all the rest of it. But that's... Man, listen, I was raised in a household with crazy fucking Southern hippies. Crazy. Like, insane.

With love.

With love? Yeah. Absolutely. But certifiably and insane in the best way.

We all are.

Like a Christmas at our house with one little heater, whatever. More often than not, somebody would go to the store and then whoever went to the store would come back with three or four people. And that would happen to a couple of people who come back. So then all of a sudden, in this family of whatever, there would be 25 people sitting around our Christmas tree when we had food. And then we would go, because we didn't have gifts for them, we would just go pick out... I remember giving my Atari pitfall game to somebody, just like my said, just go in there and pick out something you can give away. I went in and wrapped it up in a Christmas present. I had just been playing it all morning and gave it out. That's what we did. I don't know. It's just how I lived my life.

I love that. Wait, I just wanted to ask, we could go through tons of your stuff, Hateful 8, Django, Cowboys and Aliens, The Unicorn, all those great things that you've done.

And then a TV of a Shield. Anyway, it's-On and on.

But only because it's the big, recent, massive thing is White Lotus, right? Yeah. It's like you were so fucking great in that, and it was such a great season, and the world watches that show. It's so massive.

That must have done different.

You got to work with your buddy, Sam Rock. Well, our pal, Sam Rock. Yeah, I love Sam Rock. That must have been fun. But shooting in Thailand must have been, well, maybe not for you. You probably loved all the fucking hot, sweating conditions, right? Lots of open-toed shoes.

Yeah, just like. Okay, like in the-Provided your own wardrobe. I went to that part of the world 18 years ago. It's a long story. I've said it, so I won't repeat it here. But I went all over Southeast Asia. Once I got to a certain point in my life after studying, I didn't party really in my 20s. I was hyper-focused on what it was I was asking myself to do. I didn't go to... I went to Rocksbury. Wall of the Brown Derby, right? Yeah. All the places over in Los Felices with Elaine and... What's the name of the place? Anyway, I did all of that, but barely. And so then when I turned 30 years old, and we were on the second year of The Shield or after the first year of The Shield, I just said, You know what? This is my time. Now, I'm just going to finish a job, and I'm going to take off and go somewhere in the world and just hang out and get to know that place. And I I've done that now. I'm very envious of that. I'm family and with family for... God, I mean, I'm 54 years old, so I've been doing that for 24 years.

It gives you-Your passport must be a mess.

But it just gives you such a richness of life that's not just about doing this stuff. It gives you real-world experience. Sean and I talk about this all the time. Having that real-world experience and getting out in the world is important, man.

How do you do that? How do you find something new to bring back to the table? I mean-I try to do that, too.

I try to get out. I think it's what Will just said. I have to force myself to get out of the house. So I have-I'll put on CNN International.

I'll see how it's all going.

I like to go places, man. But even the dumbest thing-I need to do that.

When Jason asked me to go to the Dodgers game, I was like, yeah. And by the way, never been to a Dodgers game in those seats. But just as far as an experience goes, it's like, wow, I have that in my brain Yeah, and you didn't take the 101.

You took sunset. That was new for you, too.

Backroads. That's an adventure, man. It was an 18-inning game. Oh, my God. You didn't take the five, man.

It was great, though.

Now, what about... Before we let you go, tell us about Fall Out. Tell us about... So you've made a friend of the three-hour makeup session. It's certainly worth it. My God, what an incredible job they do with you. Thanks, man.

It's a big... You know what? We got to do this You get a call from Jonathan Nolan. The first word out of your mouth is yes. Read the scripts afterwards. And one of the writers was... She wrote Tomb Raider, and she was a friend of mine, Geneva Dworot Robertson and Graham Wagner. I knew through some friends. I was just a fan of his, really. But it started, it was all on the page. I didn't know how they would tell this story. And it was a lot. Like, day one was It was really intense thinking like, Man, I'm too old for this shit. I don't know how I can pull this off. It was in New York and it was like 99 degrees with a heat index of like 106. And then we just kept... And by the way...

Go ahead. No, just to say your makeup, it's like you don't have a nose.

No. But I do have a nose.

I know, but how do they get rid of your nose?

It's called a CGI. Okay.

I didn't know. I thought it was like... Yeah, okay.

Still there. Yeah, Now, they do that in the post. So people see me when I do my nose. Actually, I just saw these screeners that they send out to everybody. And one scene they didn't do the effects on yet for the credit center. It was like, Oh, fuck, that's my nose.

But do you have to act with a tracking mark on the tip of your nose?

Yeah, it doesn't affect me because I can't see it.

Is it like a little X or a dot or a green?

It is five dots. One, two, three, four. Four dots. I'll send you a photo.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we did it, man, and it came out and it was really well received and it became one of the biggest shows in the world. It truly is a global experience. I mean, this game resonates so deeply with so many people all over the world. We got an opportunity to do it again and jump right back in there. I've been on a long run.

One of the best pilots I've ever seen. The first episode I've seen, it's amazing. Thanks, man. Thank you.

Did you shoot the second season back in New York, too?

No, we're in LA now, man. Oh, nice. We're here. Yeah. And it feels good to be back here and to work with an LA crew to see all of these. It's so rare to work here. It's so tough here in this town right now, but it feels great to look out and go, Yeah, we're back home. And so we did it. We did season two. And look, we've all been down these roads a number of times. And you know that if you get this first of the season, if you can get a critical mask like it, and I knew it with a shield, and with justified, and with the righteous gemstones, or any of these things, that you have an opportunity to do something transcendent, really. If you can play it safe, Or you can go for it. And that's what everybody did. And it's about coming out on December 17th.

That's right, on Amazon.

Yeah, man. And we're really, really, really excited about it.

Well, you always go for it. You always go for it. And as I said at the top, you never drop us. You take us with you. You carry us safely on these great creative journeys that you take us on.

What was the show that you and Danny did that killed me? That was the other one before James-Vice Principals.

Vice Principals. Vice Principals.

That's so good.

Well, you killed me in that, dude. Thanks, brother.

Yeah.

I'd give a limb to work with you one day, buddy. So my fingers are crossed for that. Likewise. Same. Same. This will have to do until then. Thank you so much for coming on the show and talking to us.

You're just a legend, dude.

You are, buddy.

I'll buy you a glass of whatever you want whenever I see you next. I look forward to continuing.

Just take me on a horseback ride. I got to get a cultured.

Yes, anything.

What if I... Season me. What if you woke up with me in Mongolia?

In a tent in Mongolia? I would need a few batteries. It'd have to be a lot of batteries in there.

Okay, man. All right, you all.

All right, pal. Take it in. Thank you all.

Nice to meet you all.

Great to see you, dude.

All right, I'll see you soon. Bye, bud. Okay.

Yeah.

The slam.

He slammed it.

He did it. I love him. Yeah. I know. I feel a little... I do feel a little seasoned. Just even talking to him. I don't need to go to Mongolia just yet. I know.

By the way, those are the guys. Obviously, we have tons and tons of favorite episodes. This is one of my favorite ones. That guy I can talk to forever. How great is his vibe?

That's a good dude. His lust for life is just incredible and infectious.

Wouldn't you want to invite him over?

It's funny when he talks about walking in a room. Every time he walks in a room, he lights it up and it's genuine. It's not put on. That's so funny to hear him say that. As I said, I saw him the other night. He just comes in and he just has this like, as we say.

He's got a sparkle. A little fairy dust.

He does have sparkle.

When you were talking about your experience, the outdoor thing, I wanted to tell my story about my camp when I went to camp. Let's hear of it. As As a kid, I went to music camp at Blue Lake Fine Arts Camp in Michigan, and it was in the middle of the woods. That's my only outdoor long term woodsy thing. Sure. Anyway, who cares? But after two weeks of being in a camp in the middle of the woods, I was ready to say, bye. Bye.

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