Transcript of "Sacha Baron Cohen"

Guys, when's the last quickie you had? Sean?

Well, probably yesterday. What do you mean by quickie?

What do you mean by probably yesterday?

Welcome to SmartList. Smart.

Lies.

Smart. Loss. Smart. Loss. Smart. Loss. J.

B, let's just get into your hair's midway short.

Yeah. I know. Look at that. Tomorrow morning, the rest of this garbage comes off, and I'll just be in to stubble, and then I'll be into a mullet.

You already cut a little bit of your hair, a little bit.

I'm going to keep the party in the back and pull in some business on the sides and the top, and that'll work for two days. Then Then we go backwards 20 years. I'll go back into your level, your short hair, Sean, and clean shaving.

Like a Michael Bluth. You're going to go back to a Michael Bluth.

I'll go back to a Michael Bluth or a Marty Bird or really every other part I've ever played in my life. How dare you?

How dare you?

The acting stretches have not been significant in my career.

Will you be sad to see the change go?

Yeah, a little bit, but I got to tell you, I don't know how women do it with the The long hair and the showering. It's always tangled in your face, and it takes you 20 minutes to wash your hair. It's just a nightmare.

It's been coming up on a year since you've been growing that hair out and stuff.

I mean, this is longer than a year. Yeah.

This is going to be a big departure.

Yeah, I can't wait. My daughters are excited to be done with my nonsense. My wife is not happy about it.

I saw your wife last night.

Yeah, that's what I heard.

Yeah. She said to me, she's like, I like it because my hair's getting a little bit longer than I usually have. It's very long now. She goes, I like it that way. Then our friend goes, No, it's too long. I don't like it like that. Then also proceeded to tell me that I was a little overweight.

Oh, this is another guest at the party? Yeah.

This is the host. I'm like, Okay, well, that feels great.

I think you look beautiful. You actually look a little thin to me.

That's what I said.

I'd like to fatten him up a little bit.

You look thinner.

Sorry, I don't mean to talk to you. I just don't like it in this shit. There's some concubine that's just come in. Can you hold, please? I'd like to plump you up a little bit before our session. I love. Sean, how are you feeling? You're still in New York. We still haven't seen each other. I know. It's as if we don't like each other.

But when you're done with your show- This is my plan.

I was going to say this, but I was going to say- I was going to say, please come over. Thursday night, let's do it because I'm getting in Wednesday. Let's a Thursday night dinner, either at Shani at your apartment or somewhere.

That would be great. Yeah, great. Because I'm furious that I have now... I'm finishing on Wednesday after seven or eight months on this thing.

Well, and not including the prep, a month of prep.

Well, no, that includes it. My wife, because she's smarter and kinder about our friends than I am, has forced me to not come home after eight months of being away and stay an extra five days to go see our friend who's opening in a new play. I have to sit here and just kill five days of my life waiting for this.

But that's when you come over and we'll take care of you.

But I mean, I don't think our friend would care if I come see it in a month or in two months. Yeah. Right? Is opening night that big of a deal?

No, but yeah, it's nice. We're all going to go. It's going to be nice. You're doing it for somebody else.

Why didn't we all do it later?

What do you think your face is doing right now?

It probably looks pretty pissed off. It does. That's just gravity.

Yeah, but it's the good, nice thing to do.

We're going to have dinner, the three of us. Then we're going to do Jack, J. B. We already talked about it this week.

You're going to kill some time for me. You're not going to be stuck out on Long Island. You're going to stay here in the city.

No, I'm not going to go to Long Island. I'm just going to be in the city the whole time. Oh, great.

Yeah. All right. Then I've got you until the kids and the wife I get here on Friday. Exactly right. Sean is still in town. Yeah. I'm still not seeing him.

We worked it out. We have it all laid out for you when you come over. If you're listening out there and you want to grab a lunch or something, just let us know.

I was walking down the street the other day and a girl had her earbud in and she goes, Oh, my God, Sean Hayes. I go, Yeah. She goes, You're really in New York, just like you said you were on the podcast.

I don't make It's a good job. Now, all right, here comes a guest. It's been 24 minutes this guest has been waiting with my bad technological problems. All right. Today, for your listening pleasure, I brought to you an actor, a writer, a producer, an academic, an activist, and a cellist, all in one. A cellist? A cellist, yeah. For me, his ability to deliver social, political Political and religious commentary wrapped up in side- splitting comedy is completely unmatched, making him one of the most effective and valuable satirists we have in this world. He started multiple movies, both comedic and dramatic, worked with some of our fanciest directors, been nominated, won multiple awards, and he is my absolute favorite person to see at a party. Guys, the sneaky handsome, devastatingly funny, Cambridge smart, yet always cheeky, Sasha Baron Cohen.

For God's sake, look at him go.

Sasha, I'm so sorry for the delay.

No, don't worry.

I mean, a man of your- I'm not.

Now, I don't feel so bad knowing it. Now that it's Sasha, it's okay.

Will, let me butter him up and then you take him down. Okay, thank you. It's ridiculous that I've left somebody of your stature waiting this long. I apologize. Come, come.

Please. It's an honor. It's an honor to be 114th? Yes.

You're deep. You're deep You should have been on earlier.

Yeah. You bury when you do, when you have a big act, you don't have the marquee act first. You have the opening.

You make people wait.

You have them 114th.

You have 230 opening acts.

It's deeper than that.

Hey, Sasha.

Hey, how are you?

Nice to see you. Nice to meet you, Sasha. I don't think I've ever met you.

Have we never met? That seems bizarre. I'm sorry. Lovely to meet you.

Lovely to meet you too.

We'll keep your knees bent on that one. Sasha, you're in Los Angeles or New York?

I'm in Moraya in French Polynesia, where I live now.

Oh, wow.

This isn't a bit.

Yeah, no, it's a bit.

Would you ever live in French Polynesia? Because that sounded great. You know what?

I actually considered. I looked into it very thoroughly, jokes aside. Truly? Really?

That particular spot.

During the pandemic, we knew we were going to move, but we were looking somewhere in the Southern hemisphere because we knew that The virus doesn't last as long in the Southern hemisphere.

The Northern hemisphere, the virus was crazy strong.

I think at that point, it was somewhere in the Southern hemisphere, and so we'd miss the virus. We were advised by someone at Johns Hopkins who I happened to be. And so we looked into French Polynesia. I looked carefully into Tahiti. It was interesting. There's a bilingual school. There's beaches.

Have you been to Bora Bora? Have you been to the Brando? Have you been to Moraya?

I have been to Moraya, and I've not been to the Brando. It's pretty great. And I have been to Bora Bora. Where's the Brando? And I can tell you everywhere else that I've visited as well.

This sounds like real elite fuck off conversation. No, no, no. But listeners- No, no, no.

But let's discuss the best hotels.

No, but listeners, I always thought Tahiti was on the edge of the Earth. It's It's only three hours past Hawaii for anybody on the West Coast. People on the West Coast, they go to Hawaii all the time. It's like Florida for the people in New York. It's eight hours. But it's just three hours past that.

You're very familiar with it, Jay, because you actually worked there. The first time you went down there- Yeah, I did.to fulfill an obligation.Couples retreat.

Yeah.

Yes. By the way, I am happy to discuss French Polynesia- At length.

Till the end.

Yes. Actually, it wasn't a I had a shark attack, though, once. You were? No, I was in a feeding frenzy. You were in one? In Moraya.

I went shark diving in Bora Bora. Yeah. So is that where it came from? Did you go down to dive with sharks and things got a little hot?

In those days, I think it's illegal now, they used to use something called shark feeding, where I was doing my Patty license.

That's how you get certified as a scuba diver, listener, Tracy. Exactly. Patty is for him.

Sean. Yeah.

And what happened? Then, yeah, The guy I was with, some French instructor, basically said, We're going to feed some sharks. And then he puts on a chain mail hand thing. Obviously, we're underwater. And he just said, Be near me. And it was just me and him. And he basically breaks open a sardine, I remember it. And then I remember seeing the droplets of blood. And then within literally two minutes, there were twelve sharks around. No way. And then he pulls out this bag, this tuna head. And he's got a chain mail hand on, chain mail glove on. And they start eating the thing. And it's really interesting. I'm there opposite. Then they get carried away. And there's a feeding frenzy, and you can't see anything.

And he's looking at you with eyebrows high like, Isn't this fine?

He's not looking at me. His glove gets knocked off and his regulator gets knocked out of his mouth. And then he leaves. He needs some air. He goes up and leaves me alone with the twelve sharks. And I can't see a thing.

Does he put up one finger like, I'll be right back.

No, nothing. It was literally nothing.

I went down there with a guy. He put a tuna head in his wetsuit, in the front of his wetsuit in order to have all the sharks. It was a big group of us. This was planned, and he said not to worry about it. We did a little bit, and then it was okay. You can see in their eyes that they're not interested in you. Sharks are always scary when your head's just above the water, you don't know what's going on below. But once you get under and you can look at a shark, look at you and then swim away, your fear of sharks goes away instantly. I highly recommend it.

That did not happen when the sharks knocked the regulator out of his mouth and He pulled the gloves off and he swam away.

Sean, you told me once you walked out of a Ralph's with 12 cans of tuna in your pants, right? Is that a true story? Did that happen?

It was like a dream come true. But Sasha, you sound like that was a It was a surprise that it went awry.

I was, and I basically started hyperventilating. I mean, this was my second time diving in my life.

Yeah, but I mean- Then actually the guy, he put his regulator back on, put the glove back because he'd left me alone, went back down, and then the first shark went to attack him, and he punched it in the nose.

I mean, this is not good for rights lovers out there.

That's what you're supposed to do.

He was defending himself. That's okay. If the shark is eating you and you're just going, No, I didn't want to punch it in the nose. You can hurt me.

I don't want to hurt you. Yeah. Give me a break. No, you were allowed. Are you sure that the shark wasn't just coming to him for more of that blood? He wasn't going to try to bite the guy, wasn't he? I don't think so.

I think they It was just in a frantic. He headbutted the big shark. Did they interview the shark after?

He headbutted him.

He headbutted one of the sharks, the Lemon shark, which I think was bad. Those are big. 12 feet long. He headbutted that shark.

No, of course. You have In France, we headbutt the shark.

Afterwards, I did go up to him and I said, Has anyone... In the end, I basically came over to me, checked my oxygen, and I completely run out of oxygen. Then we did some emergency procedure where you take his regulator.

He puts it in your mouth and you put yours in his mouth.

He's like, We both have to get in the same wet suit. Don't worry, it's fine. This is how we regulate.

This is a very long ruse. We're both in this.

We go down below.

This hasn't wrecked your love of scuba diving, no, has it?

No, I went back the next day. I did say to him, I said, Has anyone ever got hurt on any of your dives? And he said, Two people have died.

No way.

For real. Seriously. But it was painless. Yeah, he was a cave diver. Those guys are completely crazy. He basically missed the fun and the thrill of cave diving.

I think scuba diving is the most magical thing I've ever done. I would love to do it more.

But what if you said, Have anybody ever done? And he goes, Yes, two people. And you said, They're in a cave where he goes, No, I murdered them.

This was above. This was not in the water.

No, the night before I murdered them in the room. I strangled them.

Do you do a Have you done a lot of that stuff, Sasha? Do you thrill seek? Are you a thrill seeker?

Not really. No, no, no.

Have you ever skydived?

Would you? I have not. I would not. Have you?

I was a week away from it, and then I canceled it because I I said to myself, Okay, what do you think you'd feel at the end? And then I realized all I would feel is relief. And then I thought, Well, I've just had my first kid, and I shouldn't be doing things that I'm excited about having gotten away with it. No longer should I be doing things I get away with. So I stopped. I said, You know what? I don't want to do it. None of you guys have done it. Would all three of you do it?

I did this simulation thing, but not-That doesn't kill.

What do you mean? The little fly suit at Universal Studios? You get the two with the air? No, that doesn't count.

It doesn't count?

So Sasha Baron Cohen. Let's drop the Baron.

Just to make me even more jeerish.

Okay. Well, let's- But wait, is it...

Baron is not a part of the last name, is it? Is it just Is that your middle name?

It's part of the last name. Yeah. Oh, it's part of the last name.

Oh, got it. Yeah. Sasha, your blend of comedy and, for lack of a better term, education, as I said in the intro, I find personally so admirable and you make the medicine go down super easy for ding-dongs like me. And the stuff you shine a light on, not only just on issues, but also ethics and bigotry, et cetera, et cetera. Where does that come? Well, I know where it comes from, but tell the audience, when did When did you figure out you could blend your social awareness with your comedic talents?

Firstly, thank you very much for that. It's lovely. I could spend all day.

But please don't.

I think it's the first time. Actually, the second time I did Borat. So basically, Borat was created. I was doing a satellite TV show called F2F, where I was the host of it. It was a discussion show for teenage kids. We talk about everything. And you talk about teen topics. And I wanted to be a comedian. And so I would go and prerecord characters that I could throw to. Basically, I went out once and I had a skateboarding character that was an early form of Ali G. And then I basically saw some real skateboarders, and the guy I was with, this old director from E-link Studios who had lost all his money and was working on this really shitty satellite TV show. I said, Look, those guys look like me. I go, Do you think I should talk to them? And he said, 100 %. So I go over to these guys, and I'm basically on my skateboard and I'm playing this early Ali G character, and they thought I was real. And after about three minutes, I said, Guys, I'm not real. This is just a… I'm playing along. They were completely freaked out.

And then a tourist bus came. I jumped on the tourist bus. I commandeered it. I started rapping, got off the bus, went into a bus.

What year was this, Sasha? What year was this, maybe?

This was, I think, 1995 or '94. Okay. Anyway, I basically go into a pub. I start breakdancing. They call the police. I go into some big business. I claim that my dad's upstairs and he's the CEO. They call security. We run back to this live TV show. I run, they put on my normal clothes. And this guy, this legendary guy who was an editor at Ealing Studios, is editing while I'm on air. This is the days of pneumatics. He's like cutting. Everybody's losing full frame and he's adding music. And this guy was a legendary guy. Wow. And I'm cutting to this stuff, and it's me with real people. So it was the first time that it was a comic character with real people.

And you realized that you could Trojan horse some of the social commentary inside a comedy.

You're right. I'm not really answering your question at all. This was the first time I ever did characters in the real world.

You weren't doing that shit yet. Even Ali G, you weren't really early on Ali G, you weren't really making a commentary. You were just fucking with people.

Yeah, early on.

Well, but you were exposing the- Hypocrisy. The low brow perspective on certain things that deserve a high brow analysis. Yeah?

I think in a way, Ali E. G. Was a undermining of the establishment. It was essentially saying, okay, these people that run society, they are completely out of touch with society so much that they will believe that this guy is real despite him asking the most absurd questions ever.

Can I tell you, Sasha, I think I've told you this, and J. B, you might know this, but I don't mean to speak ill of the dead. Please do. Here we go. But they don't give a shit.

You're not going to have criticized Hitler again, are you?

No, I told you I wouldn't ever remember. You made me... I signed a piece of paper.

You made a promise to him. Yeah.

Stop it. I was in tears.

You were in absolute... You were a wreck. I was furious. I was weeping. It's one of the weirdest positions.

I was weeping at the Vanity Fair party when you were.

It's not a position you think Sasha would have, but boy. No, was years ago, right after it air, and I want to say about 2003, 2004, something like that, you were still doing L. A. G. At the time. It was before Borat. I was at a party because he was on Arrested Development with James Lipton. Jason, you were there, too. I I've just seen it, and I said to James Lipton, I go, Oh, I saw you on L. A. G. I said, God, that was so funny. The actor studio guy? The actor studio guy, yeah. He was on Arrest of Development. He played the warden of the Prison. That's great.

Warden Gentles, Gentiles?

Yeah, that's right. I think that's right. It's a really funny bit to have him as the warden. The whole time, he's really just trying to get them all to mount a play, like a musical. But I said, Yeah, I saw you in L. G. God, that was so funny. He goes, I knew when he came in, I knew that it was a bit... He went on this whole thing, and I just watched it, and I'm thinking like, No, you didn't.

No, he had absolutely no idea because he took me off camera after we'd finished the interview back to the other room. I was still in character. He completely believed who I was. That thing showed me like a painting of a naked- Of his wife.woman. Yes. Is that possible? It's of his wife.

Yeah, it is. Yeah.

He goes, That is my wife. Yeah. Which you wouldn't do if you thought... And I was like, Yo, man, yo, she is. Man, I was boned out. Yo.

Somebody else. Wait, you know how I know that? Somebody else has told me that very same thing. That he took him back and said, This is the naked picture painting my wife. There we go.

You verified the story. That is fact-checking. We have just fact-checked. There you go. We've established me as a reliable witness.

That started the classic line from Borat of, It's my wife, right?

Yeah, It's my naked wife.

No way. James Lipton.

She was beautiful, by the way. She was beautiful. Classically, if we use those ways to categorize women, what does it even mean?

Of course.

We'll be right back. Now, back to the show.

At the beginning, when I asked you about the risk-taking, I was like, Would you do anything else other than swim with the sharks or whatever? You said, No, absolutely not. We talked about skydiving. I just realized realizing what you do is so high risk. It's like, that must fulfill some like-Yeah, the fear.

You love that, that rush of like you're about to get caught.

You're not doing that as much anymore, correct? Is that because you're just like, older and wiser and you don't want to get hit or run anymore?

Sorry.

Yeah. No, end of question.

Interrupted. I thought I was waiting for that.

You threw me a line. No, I can go on.

Then there was an awe. With the last Borat movie, there was quite a lot of that stuff. Actually, we did There was a scene at a gun rally, which got quite hairy.

I remember reading about that.

Yes, it was. People were semi-automatics and automatics in the audience, and it was a militia, unfortunately, that had organized it that then didn't take it very well. I was singing a song called the Wuhan flu.

That's right.

Everybody what you got to do. I can't even remember it.

Where does the fearlessness come from, though?

I'll tell you the truth, with that scene, because we knew that they were going to be... Basically, it was a gun rally, and everyone was in the middle of COVID. We were the only movie shooting. And so my security said, Listen, you need to have a bulletproof vest on. I put on the bulletproof vest and I said, They go, That's fine for pistols. And they said, I get once if somebody shoots the semi-automatic. It's not just one person. I was singing on stage. They built an amplifier that was pretty much bomb proof. They basically said, If people stop really shooting with the semi-automatics. Go behind the amplifier and you'll be safe.

Jesus.

It's unbelievable. The thing is, you're in the scene, I'm on stage, and you have this conflict between, I'm terrified, and then you also have, I need to get the scene. I was doing the same verse again because I felt I hadn't got a good take of it. People were getting more and more... They realized at some point that it was me on stage. There was somebody actually undercover from Black Lives Matter had infiltrated this gun rally. Basically, they recognized me and word spread that it was me. Then people started trying to storm the stage.

Because they realized they were getting clowned.

Yeah. Obviously, they all had guns. But I'm trying to get the scene and obviously to do as many different takes. Eventually, they did storm the stage, and actually somebody pulled a gun. Luckily, I had a very good bodyguard at the time who managed to take a bullet. Wow. Yeah, he's dead, but we gave him such a beautiful funeral.

That's why you said at the time. Yeah.

Yeah. He went away so well. He had such a beautiful and reasonable funeral.

It's funny you mentioned reasonable because I was going to say, as part of this, and the situation you describe, you have to deal with a lot of people who some might consider to be unreasonable, to be extremists in certain ways. My question is, when you deal with all these people and you're revealing all this or pulling back the covers on all this shit, do you ever have a moment where you go, You know what? This person is a good person. They're just really... They've just gotten off on the wrong path. Or misinformed. I'm sure some of them are despicable, yeah, but just some are misinformed. But actually at their heart, they're good people.

Yes. I mean, on the last movie as well, there were these two guys I spent three days in a house with called Jim and Jerry, and they were- Wait, this is Bruno, right? No, this was Ballrat, too. They believe that Hillary Clinton drank the blood of children and COVID was a conspiracy. That Hillary had killed kids. But they were actually... They were nice people. They were good people. They were just misinformed. And so you suddenly realize they're They were actually feminists because, well, when I was being... When Boris was being a misogynist about his daughter, they were like, they took it upon themselves to teach me that it was important to be respectful to your daughter. If she wanted to do her own thing, she should do. They were actually good guys, and you suddenly realized, and it was a surprise, because they had those views, and you want to dismiss these people as being horrific. Then you suddenly realize that actually any good person, if they're fed a set of ideas and set of information that's wrong, can believe conspiracy theories that ultimately lead to horrific stuff.

At the risk of stepping towards political, which we try not to do on this because God knows people get enough of that shit away from here. Tell me about it. But just on this subject, do you feel hopeful at all that there's a scenario of possibility where those who feel so disenfranchised and aggrieved can be brought into a sense of, well, Well, actually, I guess we aren't. We needn't be tribalized. We can all get along and work as one. Do you see that as a possibility?

I don't, given the state of the current Internet and information laws, basically.

Yeah, that possibly you can penetrate this misinformation and make it healthy.

Well, you're being fed so much stuff that polarizes you. If you look at the craziness that is going on in the world, everything has been accelerating since social media came along. So until really, in my opinion, until you actually get laws that... Get legislation that curbs the power of those social media companies and says, all right, actually, you can't spread lies like this that kill people or that completely undermine democracy.

And you are legitimately educated on this issue of free speech versus trying to keep the social media sites from being regulated. So my question to you is, what is that difference between, well, free speech, it should be given to everybody, but you can't yell fire in a crowded theater? So what is that line? And who is the one that can say, oh, yeah, this qualifies as you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, so therefore you can't say that? Who decides what statements get put in that category?

I mean, these are very big questions, huge, and they vary from country to country. So in England, Australia, or in Germany, you have law wars about hate speech and about certain types of misinformation. In America, obviously, you have complete free speech, but it's not up to those- Except for yelling fire. Yes. Well, actually, you can at the moment. The Internet companies, because they're not regulated because of this thing called Section 230, they can put out- Which is a free speech thing, right? Section 230 isn't really about free speech. It basically says you can't sue them. So once you can't sue a company, they have no obligation to maintain the free speech of United States in the same way that a restaurant can, say, Say, You know what, I'm going to throw you out of the restaurant for saying this or that or having that KKK hood here. So I think the fact they're saying that they care about free speech, basically because it's fantastic for their business model. It means that they can have every single person in the world can be on Meta, can be on Instagram, can be on X. They're not actual.

They don't care really about free speech. No. Look at Elon Musk, who consistently talks about free speech, and he'll do that. And then out of the other side of his mouth, he's decrying the government for doing X, Y, and Z, or he's kicking people off, or he's muting them on Twitter. I actually don't want to talk to him. I don't want to give him any more air I'm the guy, in my opinion, so fucking unfunny. It's crazy, which is, I think, the most damning thing about... No, a lot of damning things, but the fact is how profoundly unfucking funny he is is so astonishing.

That's why your work and your courage, quite frankly, in my opinion, is so valuable. I'd take it. I wish you were back on a weekly show. I'd take it once a week.Thank you for all of that.I.

Think you're Yeah, JB, we need to have that... You need to be in there lampooning and really shedding light on the hypocrisy alone is so fucking jarring.

It's refreshing.

It must be fun for you when you have those people say... When you put them in that position And then they say the thing that you're like, fucking hell, this is unreal.

Yeah. I mean, obviously, it's horrific, but you go, while I'm actually in the room, I'm editing the scene as well. So in my head, I'm going, once they've got the thing, I go, oh, that's great. And now one follow-up question, bang. Okay, now I'm going to move on to the next bit. Because there's obviously no direct to that.

I've always been taken by your- Figure. Yeah, your silhouette.

It is surprisingly... Think more about that. I mean, the- What do you mean? What do you mean my figure? Stay on that topic. What do you mean? It's surprisingly...

It's surprisingly But I did say Sneaky Handsome in the intro, I believe. Thank you. You did start as a model, but we don't need to talk about that. More Wikipedia accuracy. But your ability As an actor is... Breathtaking might be overstating it, but I don't have a better word.

I don't know.

I don't know. But it's like your comedy never comes from jokes and you're never making, it's rarely as a pratfall or making faces. It's about your ability to be so convincing with an extremely eccentric character. And yet you can be literally sitting in front of somebody who is super smart and maybe even primed to sniff out some got you moments, and they still can't tell that it's you. But not even when you're doing those characters, when you're just in films and traumas and stuff. You didn't take formal training as an actor, did you?

I only did one course. I started with Philippe Gaulier, the legendary clown teacher.

At the Saint Bon? Clown. Clown School.

At l'école Philippe Gaulier. At a Clown School. That was it. I did it. But no, I didn't really train in acting. No.

It's just something that... But your commitment. Tell us. Does it just come natural to you? What do you...

Well, I think, We did an experiment in 2016. That show Who's America came out of me and my collaborator, Anne Hines and Dan Zweimer. We basically said, You know what? Let's just create some characters. I've done a movie. It'd been a complete bomb. I was like, Let's take this opportunity to create some characters. We decided to go every week for the next 10 weeks, We're going to create a character, write it, create a fake prosthetic head for it, and at the end of the week, shoot with a real person, with the character. I did that for 10 weeks, and there were a variety of crazy characters, some that made it to the show. Six we put in the show. Then I realized basically, what I was able to do is once I've got the way the character speaks, and once I work out what it looks like, and once I work out the clothes are, and I've got a couple of phrases, I can just stick in it. That was a couple of weeks in. I was like, Oh, this is what I can do is I can... They call it inhabiting a character, but I actually...

If I've got 30 seconds, whatever, then I can go in it. Probably, there must be something wrong with my brain.

No, I think some people, it's just comfortable to them to pretend to be somebody else, and they just know how to be super subtle and convincing and authentic, and it doesn't trip them up, and you're able to stay in it.

Well, there's a freedom, but there's a freedom, too, if you think about it, because a lot of those times when you're shooting, especially some of the, whether it's Borat or Bruno or whatever, you've created a character or multiple characters, but the people you're working with are not aware that they're in a scene in the same way. It's much, A, it's difficult because it's complete verite. You're actually in their real life. You've got to not just convince the audience, you got to convince the person you're dealing with in the moment that you're real, a real person. You've got to do that. There must be a certain I don't know. Making that leap is tough, I would imagine. Just getting into that.

Yeah. What making it real? I mean, it's funny. Sometimes I'll have a director I wanted to do a scripted movie, and they'll go, this time you're going to be playing a real person. I go, Hold on, the other people I play are real people, which is why I'm with Dick Cheney for three hours. He doesn't doubt once that he's with a real person.

What about Giuliani?

I mean, thank God. You started that.

What can you say? Can you say anything? Can you talk about Giuliani?

Yes, I can, I think, talk about Giuliani. That was amazing. I mean, essentially, that movie. So we were like, why do we bring Borat back? Actually, I got to thank Kimmel, where Kimmel said, We want you on. It was like the midterms. And he wanted me to do some sketch where basically I was a Ashton Kutcher type who had been manipulating Kanye West into turning him into a character that was so ridiculous that he would hang with Donald Trump. And basically, I said, I'll do it so long as Kanye will do it. This was years ago. This was 2018, right? I called up Kanye and said, Will you do this thing? He'd already met up with Trump and I said, Will you do this sketch where it says, We're planning out, we're going to create this ridiculous character, and it's going to end up with you in Trump Tower, and it's going to be as if you were playing along. He said, I love the idea, but I need the President to agree. I was like, Trump? I go, No, don't ask him. I couldn't do... He goes, No, I love him, and I want you to...

I need to ask him. I go, Please do not tell him we're doing this sketch at all. I couldn't do that sketch. Then basically, I decided to do Ballrat. Actually, I spoke to Chris Rock. Is that a name drop? I I think so. Sure. We'll pick it up. It's a name drop.

Yeah, here it is.

Yeah, it's a name drop. I spoke to Chris Rock, world famous comedian and actor, and he said, Why don't you... I was in a rush. Basically, I was going to go on air two days' time. They said, Just do Borat going door to door. We did Borat door to door, got the mustache out of storage. Then I realized that basically Borat was just an extreme form of Trump. They had almost identical views. Borat was 30 to 40 % more extreme with everything. I was like, oh, great. We can bring him back for Trump. And then I was like, How do I infiltrate Trump's world? I go, Okay, if he has a daughter who's 15, wouldn't it be great if Trump had sex with her? And so, originally, I was trying to work out how to get this actress in with Trump. We got to close them for a while, but it was... We spoke to a lot of ex-Secret Service guys, and the idea was like, I would jump out of the wall somewhere. We had all these plans where Trump would be in a room, I would be inside the wall. We would hollow out a wall, then build it up around me, and then I'd burst out when he was with her.

Oh my God. An ex-Top Secret Service guy looked off the present. We go, What do you think of this plan? I'm going to be in there. I'll be in there for five hours. He said, The issue is that Secret Service have a machine that sees if there's anyone else, anyone in the walls. And I go, All right. So I go, What's worse comes worst. They find that I'm there. And what? They pull me out. He goes, No, they shoot you dead. I go, Why? He goes, Because why else would you be in a... Why would there be a living person inside a wall unless they were coming in?

It's a safe assumption that they can't negotiate with a guy like you. They just kill him.

So we basically gave up on Trump. Also, we thought at the time that he was the most protected person in the world. I mean, this was prior to those last unfortunate incidents. But Rudy. But then we found out Rudy was a possibility.

A little bit of a softer target.

Yeah, but we knew that he was going to be crucial. We researched him. We found out what he drank when he started drinking.

Was the answer anything?

I think there was a particular type of alcohol. But then we heard that he would sweep the room. He had a very senior head of security who would come in and sweep the room. And so we built a fake cupboard inside the wardrobe. So a fake back to... There was a wardrobe that if somebody opened it, it would have a fake back to him. Behind that was me. And so the idea was, I just stand in there for an hour and a half and the necessary bit, jump out if he was close to kissing the girl playing my daughter. Anyway, basically, the We had a crew member who accidentally put me in the wrong room. I said, When is... I would have to be in position for this to happen. Otherwise, there's no way to get into the room because his head of security would come into the room, sweep the room, sweep every room, and then he would sit outside. So no one could come in with Rudy and her. I was in the wrong room, and I said, Wait a minute, how long till Rudy goes to the room? He said, Oh, he's on his way there now.

I was like, Now? Basically, I ran to the room and I literally saw Rudy's leg come around the corner. I ducked into the room, went into the wardrobe, went behind the fake wall, closed it. Then I heard the door open, off his security, sweep the room that I was in and then come out. So he swept all the room. We did the scene. By the way, so I'm in there for a hour and a half. The only way I can communicate with the director was through a cell phone. We thought of everything. I pick up the cell phone, I'm in the pitch black, and there's 3 %. Oh, yeah. Now and a half. I was like, We did everything. We've got hidden cameras, we've got the... But somebody had not charged the cell phone. So at some point, I had to climb out of it and make eye contact with the brilliant actor Maria, who's playing my daughter. And she's like, really on the bed, and she's coming out, looking me going, What do I do? And a Eventually, I confronted Rudy. He freaks out, goes out the room, and his head of security pushes me into the room.

I'm playing Borat, and Borat is so naive. If he sees a chair, he'll say, What is this machine with four legs? And suddenly, the head of security is pushed me back into the room going, You're going nowhere, because I had an escape route. So my security guy was going to take me down the escape route, but the head of security pushes me into the room. He goes, You're going nowhere. You're staying right here. And I said, This is a false imprisonment. You are standing on my property and you will leave now and unhand me now. And basically, he realized that and read the law, ran down, ran down the fire escape, got into a car, got to the crew hotel. And then essentially, my lawyer says, he found out what we did. And he said, Okay, you got to get out the state now. I go, That's ridiculous. Why? They go, Rudy had called something, and I'd met the manager of the hotel a year onwards in DC. And he said, Rudy had done something. I don't know what he'd called in, but he said every single type of law enforcement descended on the hotel.

They shut down the hotel. They confiscated all the equipment. All the crew was stuck in the hotel rooms. And then my security, I had a policeman that I'd hired. He realized that I'd set up Rudy Giuliana. He immediately told Rudy's security where I lived, where I was staying.

Jesus Christ.

And so my lawyer was like, get the hell out of New York City now. I was like, that seems a little bit over the top. I called up this other security guy I I know a lot of security guys who runs these detectives, New York and stuff like that. I said, listen, I've been told I have to leave New York State in the next 20 minutes because I interviewed someone, and I go, he goes, What did you do? I go, All like some lingerie and politician. He goes, Who was it? I go, It was Giuliani. He goes, Get the hell out of the hotel now.

Oh, my God.

I start texting everyone who I knew outside of New York, Hi, how's it going? I haven't seen you for a few years. This was the middle of the pandemic. This is when Manhattan was completely empty. You'd go up Fifth Avenue. There was not a car or a person. I go, How's it going? Any chance I could stay soon? When? 15 minutes. People are like, free down, not responding. Eventually, one of them says yes. Basically, I drive to Connecticut, and it was fantastic.

But you got all the footage and you got your equipment. We got all the footage.

Then, yeah, it was interesting. It was interesting.

We will be right back.

And now back to the show.

Sasha, I would imagine that the thrill of acting and also the social relevance, political relevance of some of your efforts is thrilling. Does it compare with just the pure acting thrill of being in a film that's directed by Martin Scorsese? I mean, that's just one-third of what you're doing when you're doing your other stuff. Can you compare the two of them? Are you drawn towards one versus the other?

I remember the first film I did was Talladega Nights. It was the first trailer I'd been in. Ricky Burby. I went in Ricky Buffy. Basically, I remember seeing that there was a bed in the trailer. I'd never had a trailer beforehand because we'd always been in the back of a car. I was like, Why is there a bed? Somebody's accidentally put a bed in my room. They go, No. I go, What am I meant to do with it? Sleep. I thought, Wow, this is actually an incredible gig. But when it's the other stuff, it's much less stressful. Although I just did this show with Alfonso Cauron.

Yes, let's talk about that. That's coming on Apple.

We had a 15-minute scene with me and Kate Blanchard. They wanted to do in one take. That became pretty exhausting and pretty- Do you have a passion for acting?

Like the freaking craft of acting?

I mean, if it's good and you're working with an incredible director, and you're an incredible director, my friend. I love you so much. No, you are. Can I just say- You take your time. Let's do the remainder of this about Jason. But- But- Yeah, then it is great.

But it's in different categories for you, though, yes? I mean, it's not comparable, right? They're different things, yes?

No, because you're just doing the act. Everything else is, how are we going to get into the room? What's the escape route? Who's that person? That person is looking suspicious. This person doesn't quite believe me. My fake ear is falling off my head. Then your number eight in the thing is this scene. It's performance. Yeah.

Now, Sasha, I speak on behalf of millions of people that are fans of yours. I am like I am, like a huge fan We're constantly waiting for your next thing because you're one of the few artists that combine art and politics and have been so successful in all of those improvisational types of whatever you call them. These movies where you play these characters. Obviously, you can't tell us what it is you're working on, but could we expect another character to pop up in a movie soon? Are you excited about that type of thing to do that again? Because from the outside, I can't wait until- Short of the straight acting thing with. I can't wait for those types of things again. Or are you done with that?

I think they are. Yeah. I mean, the last one became so extreme. It was after that gun rally thing that I was talking about, I was essentially on the run. I had a militia following me, and I was going from safe house to safe house for about four days.

That's the movie.

Yeah, exactly. By the way, it is the movie because you finish that song with that malicious, you go, Oh, that went really well. And then the escape itself is tough because we're in an ambulance. We're surrounded by 30 guys trying to pull me out of the ambulance. They pull open the door.

I'm struggling- But we can't get enough of that. We can't get enough of that.

Yeah. I mean, that's the behind the scenes stuff. At some point, there needs to be a behind the scenes movie. We shot. We did have... We've got a bunch of footage of the last 25 years. But yeah, I think it became so crazy in the last one that you realize you've got to be... There's a certain amount of skill and preparation, but also you're going to be lucky. And at some point, your luck runs It runs out. It runs out.

And they're just the practicality of it because it has been so successful for so long, this type of, again, for lack of a better term, ambush type of thing. People know you. They love these films. Millions and millions of people have seen them. You just can't sneak up on anybody anymore.

Yes. Well, I think that just the danger element meant that I just didn't really want to do it again. I felt I had to do it for that election. I had to do it. I felt it was like I was terrified about what's his name going to get.

Well, let's not come off the gas just yet, okay? Yes. We're not out of the woods yet, Sasha. Still need you. That's true. I haven't asked you one fucking question and We're done. You haven't. We're finished with the time. No, I've got all these things all highlighted and everything. I apologize to the listener. We haven't done any legitimate journalism here. Let's at least talk about Disclaimer and working with Alfonso Cuaron and Apple and Kate Blanchard. I mean, it's well, well, well deserved for your acting talents to be working with these people at the top of the profession. So have you seen it all the way through? Disclaimer?

I watched it for the first time in Venice. Yeah. And I mean, no one could believe that I hadn't watched it until then. And I'm like, the embarrassing was I was laughing at the jokes that I'm making it. There's not many, but it's quite embarrassing. You are at a premiere watching yourself, and you're one of the only people laughing at jokes. And then I was really moved by one of my performances. I was like, near-tier. I realized I'm just a complete narcissist. Just looking, just really moved by my own performance.

Wait, it wasn't until Venice this year that you realized that?

Wow. I never knew there was a connection between between actors in movies and narcissism. No, I had no idea.

I'll bet it's absolutely stunning. It's actually excellent. When does it come? It comes out October.

Or it came out.

When does it came out?

When is it? When is it? When is this coming out? October 11th. When's this coming out?

Yeah, it came out.

It came out October 11th.

It came out October 11th. It was amazing.

It's incredible.

No, I mean, October 11th. The weather was so great that day. That was great.

That's fantastic. Sasha, when do we get to... Are you coming back to Los Angeles at any time soon? We can all hang out again like the old days. I love to see you. Yeah. God damn it, I love seeing you.

And Sean, it'd be lovely to meet you in the flesh.

I would love that, too. I'm around. Just give a shout. If you need a place to crash when you're in trouble in New York again, my place is yours. Great.

If you don't mind malicious coming to your door.

Yeah. No, are you kidding? What do they look like?

You were really nice to say yes to this. I know you don't do this a lot.

No, I'm awful at it. The honest I'm very bad at it.

It's fantastic. Are you kidding? I'll see you socially.

Socially, it's a pleasure, but the slight pressure with the...

No pressure. No, this is great. This is fantastic.

By the way, very muscly. I can see your... I don't know if you're doing this intentionally, but I've seen glutes. I've seen... Oh, no, he's got everything. No, you've been working out, looking very much.

Put your arms down.

Are you doing this for a reason?

This is for my pin-up collection. Early I think this was my July for my calendar. Wow.

Wow, you really actually do look incredible.

Prison with Arnett, that's the calendar. Yeah, it's so good. Sasha, thank you so much. No, thank you. We love you a lot. Please come out to LA.

I love you. No, seriously, I love you both. Sean, you seem very lovely.

He's the best of the three of us.

Miss you, Sasha.

Always a pleasure. These two I do love.

We're trash compared to him.

Where do you got to love him? I love you, Sasha, even though we don't know each other. I love you. You love me?

I feel affection you. I feel an instant warmth. Oh, he's a little love thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah, very charming and lovely persona.

You just want to pet him when you see him.

He totally does seem like that. You're right.

You're not going to sue me for saying that, are you? Okay. K. Monty Strong on a podcast.

Loved it.Thank you, buddy.Thank you.

Thank you, buddy. Thank you and goodbye. Enjoy Enjoy the rest of your night. Thank you.

No, thank you for agreeing to-I can't wait for a disclaimer.

Everybody check it out on Apple.

Honestly, I would say I thought it was excellent, personally.

Yeah, we'll see you at the Emmies all day. I was glad.

I hope they put... They should put that on the poster. I think it's excellent.

I personally thought it was excellent. I have seen stuff that I've done. I was like, That is bad. I laughed and I cried it myself.

But it'd be pretty fucking funny to have a quote from one of the stars of the film. So all of them.

K Blanchet. K Blanchet. A guaranteed Emmy Tour de Force. K Blanchet.

End of quote.

He's great.

Kevin Klein. I am in this.

Kevin Klein's in it, too?

Kevin Klein's in it. He's actually fantastic in it.

I love him.

I love him.

I see more from him. All right. Enjoy the rest of your night. All right. Thank you.

See you soon. Loved to meet. Loved to meet. Loved to meet. Loved to meet. Okay. Tiddaloo. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Thank you, pal.

Bye, bye, bye. Bye, pal. Bye, bye.

That's a great guess, Jay. That was really, really great.

Yeah, great job, J.

I just love him.

I mean, he's funny.

He's got great stories. One of the funniest guys, I mean, he's up there with Sean Hayes, Will Arnett, and Will Farrell in my world. I just can't. I get in an instant good mood when I'm with these people.

I was going to say to him, nobody does... I mean, it sounds so cliché to say it, but it's true. Nobody does what he does. Nobody's ever done what he does.

No one's got the intelligence, the balls, or the acting talent to do what he does.

Yeah, it's like a Peter Sellers.

Which is his hero, by the way. We didn't even get into that. Yeah.

It's like a version of that in real life when he goes- But applying it to the real world. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Which is so interesting.

He's really cool. I never met him before. He just seems so... I'd love to hang out with him.

He'd love to hang out with me so much. He's the greatest at a party. Yeah, I just start to hover, and he's eventually got to walk away from me because I just put in too much time.

Yeah, he seems hyper intelligent. He is.

Oh, yeah. Cambridge. Educated. Oh, wow.

Yeah, of course.

Not a ding-dong. Speaking of ding-dongs, what's for lunch today, Sean?

I'm going to do a French dip.Oh, God.And with French fries.

Why is it always something special? What do you mean? It's always got something with sauce or some really electric flavor to it. How about just some sustenance?

Aren't you amazed at how fast I know my answers whenever you ask what I had or what I'm going to have?

Well, we're cutting into it right now. You can probably smell it. Where's it? Where's it? Where's it? Where's it? Where's it? Where's it? Where's it?

You can probably smell it.

Yeah. Is it already... It's just waiting on the tape. Where's it from?

No, the second night. There's a place, a block away. I can't remember the name of it.

Don't say the name. Someone will try to poison you.

Yeah, no. I can't remember, but it's a block away. It only takes a second to get. Yeah, it's so good. It's so good. It's one of the best in the city.

You know what I'm going to have?

What?

Nothing.

Yeah.

Because- You know what you should have? Because I've got this stupid level of discipline because of my passion for my character, my strung-out. I get it.

I know you do. I know you're joking, but it's true and it's very admirable. It's not a healthy way to do it.

I know. I'm tired of being thin.

But Wednesday, that's what I'm saying, Wednesday, after Wednesday is over and you wrap your beautiful show, an amazing Making sure that everybody's going to go apes shit about.

Yeah, Thursday. No, Wednesday. No. Yeah, Wednesday I wrap. So Thursday, our dinner, can it be something super fattening?

Yeah. I have to have... Because I have lost weight, I'm on a new thing, which is it's all about eating more and eating the right thing. That's what I'm talking about. Losing weight unhealthily is not good. You can lose weight and also do it in a healthy way and look like this.

How are you doing? Then what am I going to have Thursday night? Am I going to have steak? Is steak okay?

Yeah, a lot of steak and veggies, no starch, no bread, no nothing like that.

Can't you do pizza? Can you do pizza?

You can have a little bit... No. No? No, man. A little bit of starch at lunch, a tiny bit, like a little bit of maybe a sweet potato, a couple of pieces, maybe a little bit of rice like that much. A couple.

You got to release the valve every once in a while. You want a little tiny little bite of pizza, Sean, go ahead.

One sheet meal a week.

One meal. To keep your metabolic rate going, right? Yeah.

But it's not But here's the other thing. It's not fast metabolism or slow metabolism, it turns out. Hot or cold. What you need to do to keep your metabolism hot is you need to feed it with the right stuff at the right time of day. I went and saw this guy.

Unbelievable.unreal. This is the guy you're dating? Oh, a nutritionist.

We're just seeing each other. I met him right behind... You know the party store on Sunset? Sure. I know the guy. I hear, Shh.

He says, I'm going to be in a Corolla.

Yeah. He No, anyway.

How many times did he flash a bright? What was the code?

It was Morris Code, and I thought he said, help. It was, can you help me with my pants? That's what it was.

He He was just a person. He was like a bystander.

We'll just commit to it.

Just do it. Someone's hungry. Try to do it without going up on by this time. Okay.

The guy, I know that guy that you met behind the party story. He was just a regular bystander.

Bystander.

Yeah, not as good, but- Bi-bye. Bye, everybody. Smart.

Smart. Loss. Smart.

Yes.

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