Transcript of 448: Christa Pike, Gypsy Rose, Cornell 7 & Reddington’s New Statements

Hey, true crime besties! Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialously. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialously. With me, your host, Annie Elise. It is Thursday. I hope you're having a great week so far. Because it's Thursday, it means it is headline highlights. And let me just say this, we have— I say this every time and it's getting so old— we have so much to talk about. I don't know, like, what's going on in the world and if everybody just, like, took a hit of acid or something, but last week I feel like it was nonstop. Every day something new was happening. There was some crazy update. And I just couldn't keep up. And so here to break it all down with me is none other than Rapunzel herself, Amy Collette.

I was half thinking you might greet me in Korean.

I wish I could, but I do not speak it.

Did you learn anything?

I don't even want to say.

I said that very condescendingly.

I know.

I, I did learn a couple things, but I don't even want to attempt to say, repeat them because my Korean listeners will be like, you're butchering that right now. So the answer is no.

Okay.

But I am—

welcome back.

Thank you. I was in Korea all last week, which also, that is why as everything was happening, I'm like, of course the one week I decide to go off like the radar and like go silent and be in a different time zone, everybody goes fucking crazy.

No, we have a running joke here that when Annie goes on vacation, 2 things happen. Number one, true crime goes wild.

Yes.

And number 2, she usually wants to start a new show or has some crazy project. So we saw the story where she was like, don't worry guys, when I'm back, I'm gonna cover all of this. And we all thought, great, we need to brace ourselves.

And here we are.

And here we are.

And I haven't even told the team yet. Jess is right now behind the camera. Amy's here.

What?

I did have a new idea for a business last week. So great. Did you look at the, look at that enthusiasm? Can't wait.

So.

Stay tuned. Okay.

But hello.

Hello. Hello.

It is so nice to be back. Um, but there is what, look at this. I just got signed out of my stupid email account. How the hell did that happen? Um, there is so much to talk about. I know. Like, I don't know what's going on with people and why people are so crazy and why they feel the need to just like go ham.

But when I know you're gonna talk about one of your faves in a minute.

Don't, don't even say it. Don't even utter her name. But yes, I am going to be talking about her. Let me get locked in. Locked. God.

Okay, hold on.

Let me get logged back in here. What is going on?

So let me ask you, in Korea, do people follow true crime closely?

I didn't ask. It never really came up in conversation.

Okay. But isn't that interesting when you travel abroad? I just— I'm sorry, side note while you're lerging in.

Yeah, keep going.

But people don't ask you when you're abroad what you do for work, which is so refreshing.

Well, Actually, and I didn't even— I haven't even told you this yet. I did. And for my Korean listeners, I don't know if everybody's going to be on board with this. I know some people are like very against this. I saw a sanju. I don't know if that's how you pronounce it. It's kind of like not a fortune teller. That's— I think is like— oh, I think that is like diminishing it. But like somebody who reads your charts, your birth charts, your water signs, all these different things.

Like astrologists?

No.

Okay.

But like high level of accuracy will like tell you what is to come in your life. When I tell you I'm nervous, so me, all the girls got it done. It's pretty freaking accurate and like saying stuff about me that like I didn't share and that she didn't even know who I was before I went in there. So she couldn't have looked me up. She couldn't have done anything. Nailed automatically how many kids I have, that one is really smart. When I asked about him, she's all, she started pulling the cards and she's all, she's all, your son, he's very smart. You need to focus on academics.

All of a sudden, then I was like, She's like, and your daughter, she's tough.

She's tough.

That's so funny cuz last night I got a glimpse, I don't know how, but I thought of her in her teenage years and I just thought, oh my God, I'm fucked. I can't, you are. And I can't wait for it cuz it's kind of like a taste of your own medicine.

And it's like unassuming. She's like such this little like cutie with glasses, but like the kind who'll like look at you and smile and then like step on your toe and run away.

1,000%.

But yeah, so, um, that was really interesting. And so my point in bringing that up is I did end up telling her that I was in true crime because At first she's like, you would be such a good educator. Do you do anything for work? I was all, an educator? I was like, well, I guess I educate on red flags. And so, but yeah, that was a wild experience.

I can't wait to hear about that.

Yeah. Um, but yes. Okay. So we have a lot to talk about today and let's actually start with some happy news because we can start today's episode off on a positive note. I have a very good update to share in the case of the 14-year-old girl, Diana Ortega. who disappeared back in August, just days after the body of her newborn baby was found alongside the road in Monterey County. If you remember that, we talked about how that was happening here in California, how people discovered this newborn baby who was unfortunately no longer alive on the side of the road. And then an Amber Alert was issued for this— who they believe is the mother, this 14-year-old girl, and her father, who had allegedly abducted her and was also the father of not only the 14-year-old girl but also the father of her newborn baby. So again, if you remember, the authorities believed that Diana was with her father Sergio Perez, who was wanted on charges related to sexually assaulting her. So now the Monterey County Sheriff's Office has confirmed that Diana has been found safe in Mexico after being rescued by Mexican law enforcement. Sergio was also arrested during the operation after authorities reportedly found him in possession of narcotics, and Mexican officials are aware of the charges that he is facing back here in California.

So So it appears she has been rescued. He is now arrested. Let's throw away the key. I don't know what's going to happen with extradition and bringing him back to California and all of that. I think when we talked about this case, it was assumed that he was fleeing to Mexico and that that's where he was going to try to hide with her. Meanwhile, his wife and her mother was still back here, and if I remember correctly, wasn't entirely being cooperative.

I felt like there was something weird there.

Yeah.

So the point being, Diana is currently safe. She's in the care of local authorities in Mexico, and investigators say that they will release more information about her rescue and also Sergio's arrest at a later press conference. But happy that they have been found.

Absolutely.

Hopefully this girl can get the help that she needs. I can't even begin to imagine what she has been through.

I know.

Mentally, physically, emotionally, sexually, all of these things. So. Happy news with that. Now, as much as I would rather never talk about this person, and interesting little side note, anytime I'm out on tour doing like the live shows, I always do a poll with the audience saying, what is the case like you really want me to talk about? Somehow this bitch always creeps up to like the number 1 or number 2 spot, and I have never talked about her.

The top 2 cases that come up are the top 2 you don't cover.

That I will refuse to cover. And that is what? That's JonBenét and Gypsy fucking Rose.

Mm-hmm.

And the reason I don't like talking about Gypsy Rose is because, yes, I do believe in some sense she was a victim in everything that happened to her that her mother had subjected her to. But equally, I think she's a huge villain. I think she not only planned and calculated this whole master plan to have her mother murdered by her weirdo boyfriend fiancé guy, but I think she was an active participant. And if you need a reminder in all of that, they had sex on the floor after they murdered her mother and like were getting off on it. Like, she is disgusting. And the amount of fanfare that came out when she was released from prison, it made me sick to my stomach. Especially, and I've said this only during the live shows, I don't think I've ever said it here on an episode, but I know you've heard this cuz you go to the live shows. Shortly after her release, I was sent a Google folder, a link.

Mm-hmm.

With all the uncensored, unredacted crime scene photos of her mom, images that will never be removed from my brain. And just the amount of evil that it takes for someone maybe not to physically be holding the weapon and doing this, but to be complicit in the planning, execution, and then the aftermath of like the coverups and trying to blame Nick and all these things. It's just, it takes a true diabolical person to do something like that.

Well, it's one thing if you do sympathize with her and say, okay, you went through a lot of trauma and maybe it drove you to this crazy thing you did and you're in prison and now for reasons you've been allowed out. Okay, let's call it a day, whatever. But then to then have all this fame and to be going out and being so public and like kind of exploiting the whole thing.

Not kind of.

Yeah.

She is absolutely exploiting it.

I feel like that's, that's where it absolutely lost it for me.

Yeah. She is disgusting. And so as much as I would rather never talk about this person, We are going to talk about Gypsy Rose for a moment because her longtime on-again, off-again partner and the father of her daughter, Ken Urker, has now died, and he was just 34 years old. Now, obviously, you hearing my tone in this episode, you know that I can't stand Gypsy Rose and I feel a certain type of way about her. But regardless of everything that I can't stand about her, this is more about Ken, and that's why I want to share this update, because he was a father, a brother, a son, and his family is grieving. And honestly, it's only been a few days now, and this entire situation has has been very messy. People of course assuming, did she have something to do with it? What's the likelihood that 2 people close to this girl have now died? But also the aftermath and her response, how quickly she was giving exclusives on this situation. It just feels really gross. Now if you don't know, Ken and Gypsy originally met while she was still in prison for her role in the murder of her mother Dee Dee.

They got engaged in 2018, ended up breaking things off Got back together, broke things off again. And then of course, while they were apart, we know Gypsy married Ryan Anderson. That of course didn't last. And then she got back with Ken. Actually, it was a few months after she was released from prison in December of 2023 that she announced that she and Ryan were separating. And then almost immediately Ken was right back in the picture. So they reconciled in April of 2024, and then 8 months later they welcomed their daughter Aurora. However, just last Thursday on October 1st, which was actually also Ken's 34th birthday, He was found dead inside his home in Louisiana. According to the police report, Gypsy's half-brother Dylan and his wife became concerned after Ken had apparently been struggling emotionally the night before. Then he failed to show up for work the following morning. So Dylan went to the house, looked through a bedroom window, and he saw Ken lying unresponsive on his bed. And when deputies arrived, Ken was cold to the touch and he wasn't breathing. However, what they found inside the home, that has raised even more questions.

Because according to the report, deputies found syringes and a spoon right next to a brown powdery substance in the bathroom, which usually— I'm not a huge, you know, drug savant, but brown powder substance, I believe from all of my research, is heroin. Another syringe was also reportedly sitting on Ken's nightstand along with a holstered handgun. His face and arms were blue, but there were apparently no signs that the bedroom or bathroom had been disturbed, meaning there was no break-in. no fight between him and somebody else, no third-party culprit, or even, I guess, second-party culprit, nothing like that. So an autopsy was done, but as of right now, there is no official cause or manner of death, and tox reports are also still pending. However, based on the scene and the substances that were found, they believe that it was an overdose. Whether that overdose was intentional or not, we don't know. But Gypsy has publicly said that she believes that Ken may have overdosed, even though the investigators still have not officially confirmed that. And this is where things, like I said, really start getting messy, because Gypsy has given several interviews since Ken's death saying that she had texted him happy birthday that day, that she got concerned when he didn't respond.

In one interview, which was the day after he died, she said that Ken had not been in a good state of mind recently, and she said that she didn't know whether or not his death was intentional or not. But what I found really gross about this whole thing is within hours of it being discovered that he had died, she was giving exclusives to TMZ, to People, to all of these media outlets before his family could even speak on it. And his family then did speak out saying they wanted to keep details private. They wanted to keep it within the family. They weren't trying to go broadcast everything. But Gypsy Rose, being the little annoying clout-chasing, limelight-loving weasel that she is felt like, oh my God, I just found out my former fiancé is dead. Let me pick up the phone and call TMZ and let them know the scoop and everything I can. Let me somehow make myself the victim in all of this. Let me say how, um, I sent him a happy birthday text and I was concerned about him. It's just so gross. She also described Ken as her soulmate and her, quote, red string, saying that their connection was something that even death could never erase.

She also blamed at least some of what Ken had been going through on the intense online harassment and cyberbullying that he had received because of their relationship, which— this was really interesting too because in some of her exclusives that she was giving to media outlets, she started pushing a new law that she wants being brought into the forefront of, you know, tighter restrictions on cyberbullying and all of that, which, yeah, great, okay, fair. But also, again, this isn't about you. And his sister and his family, they are direct— like directly negating that it had anything to do with the cyberbullying. But it's, again, in my opinion, Gypsy trying to scoot her way to the front of this to somehow use it as a place to receive all of the attention, platform herself, and re-victimize herself. So like I said, Ken's sister Autumn, she's telling a very, very different story than what Gypsy has been spinning. According to Autumn, Ken and Gypsy weren't even together when he died. They were broken up. She claims that Ken ended their relationship more than a month prior and said that Gypsy was making it sound like they were still this happy, beautiful, committed couple, even allegedly telling people that they were still engaged and planning on having baby number 2.

But Autumn basically said no, none of that is true, which— take a listen directly from Autumn.

You know, she tried to paint a fake narrative that they were engaged and blah blah blah. Bitch, no, y'all weren't. And you're not gonna fucking do to my brother what you did to Dee Dee. You're not lying on his name. I'm I don't care if you're trying to make it seem like y'all were all alone. Bitch, you're not lying on his name. He was not with you just last night. He was detesting your fucking name. He— stop. You have Aurora.

You have her now.

You got what you fucking wanted.

She also took issue with Gypsy's claim that her unanswered birthday text is ultimately what led everybody to realize that something was wrong. Because if you remember, she said, I texted him happy birthday. When he didn't respond, I got concerned. She's saying no, that's not at all how it went down, because according to the police report, it was Dylan and his wife and Ken's boss who all 3 became concerned after Ken didn't show up for work. The report does not say that Gypsy was even there when Ken was found, or that she was the person who contacted the authorities, which once again, listen to Autumn and what she has to say about that.

No, Gypsy's brother Dylan, correct? Yes, he did. Him and his wife were the ones, and another woman, and she doesn't want me to say her name. They were all at church And they had dinner or something planned today, and they went over there and they found him. And when I talked to him last night, he said he was going home to go to sleep and that he had work in the morning. This is why they say sticks and stones.

So I don't know, make of that what you will. Autumn said that she actually spoke to her brother just hours before his death, and that in that conversation Ken told her that he was tired, was going home to sleep, and that he had work the next morning. Then their conversation ended the same way that it normally did, with the two of them telling each other, I love you. She did say that Ken had recently been struggling, particularly after an old prison phone call between him and Gypsy had resurfaced online. People began attacking him over it, and I believe the context of that call— and I'm just paraphrasing here, so please do your own research— But it was something along the lines of, if authorities found CSAM material on my phone, would you still love me? Or something like that. And I don't know if that's because he actually had material like that on his phone or if he was just speaking in hypotheticals, kind of how sometimes people will be like, if I ended up becoming addicted to heroin, would you still love me and see it through? Like, I don't know the context of all that, but I did see that circulating the internet.

However, when Autumn was asked whether or not she believes her brother intentionally took his own life or not. Autumn said no, she believes that his death was accidental, and she said that the family is still keeping some of the details private within the family. Which again, we don't have the official cause of death yet. There was that drug paraphernalia that was found at the scene, but the tox report is still pending. So I don't know, curious what you guys think, if you think it was an accidental overdose. I think that The signs are there that this was an overdose, whether accidental or not. I can't put myself in his brain, so I really don't know. I it's really weird that Gypsy's trying to say that they were planning baby number two, that they were so happy. But again, not that weird when I really think of what a lying little asshole she is. So I think again she's trying to just make herself the victim in all of this, and she's obsessed with the limelight, and I just. I fucking really despise that girl.

I know. It's like she's just trying, you know, when someone passes and they try to like then be like, they were a good friend of mine. It's like, no, they weren't. And she's obviously trying to exaggerate the state they were in. I was curious when I heard that it was an overdose and obviously they found the paraphernalia, if it was that he was having a bad time and that it was his birthday, which brought up maybe some emotions and that he did that and like was reckless with it, or if it was just an accident. And yeah, you know, but I saw something where, yes, she was trying to pin it on the online bullying and basically saying like, we need to stop this. But then surf— videos were surfacing of her where she was having these crazy outbursts.

Oh yeah.

Basically talking all the shit on him online. So then that— I'm like, what are you talking about?

And there were things in the past which obviously like toxic relationship or not, it doesn't necessarily tie into this. I mean, maybe it loosely does, but yeah, where she would like berate him, she would talk poorly about him. There were times where they would get in fights, and I don't remember if it was him or Ryan, but where she was like slashing the headboard at one point and threat— making all these crazy threats. But yeah, with her trying to pass this law for cyberbullying, well, if anyone else was doing it, I think it would be a great thing to do.

Of course.

But she's doing it to be like, look, you guys were attacking us, attacking— like making herself a part of the narrative as well. Yes. And you know what it's giving? It's giving the kind of person who posts on their Instagram their— a picture of their arm with a hospital bracelet and says, say prayers, but doesn't give any context.

Ugh.

And wants the people to comment and be like, are you okay? Oh my gosh, what's going on? And then like leaves everybody on read 'cause she just wants you to stew, like stew and like think about like you know, that she's the victim. That's what it's like reminding me of.

An opportunist. An opportunist.

An opportunist.

Yeah, an opportunist.

Um, no, a huge opportunist. And she just— now that she's kind of been fading, I think, from the public eye or even the celebrity of it all, because people are starting to realize like, oh no, you actually are evil regardless of what you went through as a child. Like, you still— what, like, you're still evil and you still planned all of this and seemingly have no remorse. I think that all of the opportunities have started to fade. So any way possible for her to reinsert herself into getting the public's attention, and even more than that, getting the public's good graces, I think she's going to try to do.

Well, I mean, it's not a good sign when your ex-fiancé or baby daddy dies and everyone's looking at you.

Yeah, being like, what did Gypsy have to do with that?

Yeah, exactly. That's pretty telling.

So hopefully that's the last time I have to talk about Gypsy Rose. I really hope so.

Is a deep dive coming?

No, a deep dive is not coming, but I do hope that Joey King is signing a contract for The Act 2.

Oh, you do?

I mean, did you ever—

would you watch it?

Did you ever see that series? She did a great job. And side note, Patricia Arquette— I don't know if she's still alive—

she used to follow me. Oh.

And I love her.

What? That is like—

I love Patricia Arquette.

Wow, I love her too.

She's so good.

She was in that other prison movie that So good.

Danmara, or, uh, the Escaping Danmara, or Dagmara, or whatever. Yeah, she's so—

that was so good.

I know, she's great. I don't know if she still follows me.

I—

maybe she doesn't. Patricia, if you're listening, I love you. Um, all right, what do we got?

This next one is out of Quincy, Illinois, and it's kind of strange because it's not getting a lot of attention right now, but it should be because it's pretty crazy, and I know more details will come out. So on Thursday, September 24th, police were called out to an old apartment building that was used to be in a post office in downtown Quincy, Illinois for a wellness check because one apartment in particular had been smelling absolutely foul for months. Neighbors say they had noticed the smell for quite some time, but because apparently this building was kind of known for not smelling great to begin with and having issues, some thought it could be dead mice garbage, maybe even pest control, something like that. But over the last 2 to 3 weeks, it had gotten significantly worse, so much so that one neighbor described it as unbearable. But when police got inside, they realized that that smell was coming from something much worse. It was coming from a decomposing body on the couch. The next day, the Adams County coroner identified the victim as 24-year-old Destiny Daniels, and her body was so badly decomposed that they actually had to obtain dental records and conduct a forensic exam of her teeth just to confirm her identity.

And as of right now, 2 weeks later, her cause and manner of death are still pending. But immediately there were questions just about how long Destiny had been inside that apartment. One neighbor said they hadn't seen her since December 22nd of last year, and another said they hadn't seen her since around February 22nd of this year, when Destiny was reportedly seen arguing with her boyfriend in the hallway of that apartment building. And keep that in mind because that's going to be very important later on. So about a week after Destiny was found, her sister Amanda spoke out and said that she had actually gone to the apartment before looking for Destiny, just 3 days before police found her body. And at that time, she said she was told that smell was from some sort of sewer backup. She explained that her family had lost almost all contact with Destiny about 6 years earlier when Destiny was just 18, after a disagreement involving her boyfriend, Colin Blanchette. Destiny had told her family that she was going to drop Colin off and then come back, but then she never did. And Amanda said that she did see her again about a year ago, gave her a hug, told her she loved her, and gave Destiny her phone number.

And Destiny had promised that she would call, but Amanda said that she had never heard from her.

It was really hard, but the last time at least I got to give her a hug and tell her I loved her, and I'd say that was A year ago. And I gave her my phone number, and she said she'd call, but— and I never heard from her. I drove by that apartment building a million times, and never once would I have thought something like that.

However, another family member apparently was receiving messages from Destiny's phone, and Amanda couldn't quite give the exact timeline for when those messages stopped, but she said they had been frequent and recent. So then the question was, who was sending all of these messages to this other family member? Because remember, neighbors said that they hadn't seen Destiny since at least late February, and by September her body was so badly decomposed that they had needed these dental records to help identify her. Well, her family thinks that it's Colin. Amanda claims that Colin had isolated Destiny from her family over the course of their relationship, which we just briefly talked about. And Destiny's family now believes that she may have been dead inside that apartment for at least the last 7 months. They allege that during that time, Colin continued using the apartment, driving Destiny's car, paying the rent, and using her cards. Now, to be clear, these are just allegations made by Destiny's family. Colin has not been charged in connection with her death, and police say that he has been fully cooperating with their investigation. But I mean, there are some obvious questions here. Because according to neighbors, Destiny and Colin did live together.

So if she was really dead inside that apartment for a month, Did he just not notice this decomposing body on the couch? Did he not question why his girlfriend hadn't been around if she wasn't at the apartment? And even if she had moved out at some point, even if there was some other explanation that we don't know about yet, make it make sense. Because I would imagine there would have been some level of communication between them over all those months.

Not to mention if he was using her cards.

And paying rent at a building that they shared. I mean, obviously there'd be some record there. And Destiny's family also claims that Colin told friends months ago that she was, quote, gone. But apparently people thought he was just joking. Colin meanwhile reportedly told police that Destiny just never left the apartment because she had anxiety. So obviously some conflicting stories there. And as more and more questions keep coming up about Colin, people realize that he had just seemed to disappear. It came out a few days after Destiny was found that he was apparently on a planned trip to the Lake of the Ozarks, and her family doesn't believe that this was just a coincidence and suspect that he may have known that Destiny was about to be found and was actually going on the run. Again, police have not accused Colin of killing Destiny, and investigators are still waiting for the full autopsy results. Crews wearing full hazmat gear were seen removing furniture from the apartment just last week, and Destiny's family has asked authorities to secure the room and make sure all potential evidence is properly documented. For Amanda, though, this is about making sure that people know who her sister was.

She described Destiny as a ray of sunshine who was always joking and laughing. She had been an honor roll student, and according to Amanda, 7 colleges were interested in her with full-ride scholarships on the table.

She was a ray of sunshine all the time. She, she could brighten up any room that she entered. She was always joking and laughing. She's always picking on somebody. She was on honor roll. She was going somewhere. She had 7 colleges interested in her, full-ride scholarships. She could have met anybody she wanted to be, and she met him and decided to stay, take a gap year. I thank God every day for giving me her.

So now they want to know exactly what happened, of course, and if there really is someone that knew something all along, and of course, if her boyfriend had anything to do with it.

I have an idea.

I was— if you can't see it, what do you think?

I'm raising my hand. I have an idea. I think that he knows what's going on. You do? Groundbreaking.

I mean, what's kind of crazy is like, I'm not living in a building that smells so bad for months that I'm just ignoring it and there's a decomposing body.

And well, well, well, you are if you are so dumb that you don't know how to dispose of the body and you're trying to just keep that person alive in theory so that you can Use their credit cards, spend their money, text family members from her phone pretending she's still alive until the money depletes or the remains are too rotten and decomposed at that point to continue on.

I mean, that's some crazy shit.

How many cases have we covered like that though?

And it's so sad because you have this 18-year-old girl who had 7 colleges approaching her, her whole life ahead of her. I feel like that's so cliché to say, but it's like her whole life ahead of her, and then Tale as old as time. You meet a guy, he isolates you, and like, the poor family. But I'm like, the family hasn't talked to you in 6 years, and then you see your sister and obviously you don't reach out to her after you have the number. Like, that's so awful.

It's really sad. It's going to be interesting to see what comes out, not only in like the discovery and the evidence, but also if more friends come forward who possibly had some sort of eyewitness account of the relationship and what had been going on over the last 6 years. Was she truly isolated? I mean, for him to tell people too, like, she doesn't leave the house, she just has too much anxiety.

Mm-hmm.

That's a red flag too. Like, I don't think so. And it seems to me like, yeah, he met her, he groomed— not, I don't wanna say groomed, preyed on her, isolated her emotionally, financially, psychologically, maybe physically abused her, but to where she then became dependent on him and she didn't reach out to her family. I think that's why her sister Amanda said, like, when she saw her, she gave her a hug and said, here's my number, call me, like trying to give an olive branch. Um, yeah, well, and then— Really sad.

If the family thinks that he fled to the Ozarks because maybe he thought maybe the body was going to be found in the next few days, I wonder why he thought that. Is it like the smell had just reached that point where, yeah, you know, Oh gosh, how sad. I know.

Okay, so we have an update in the Lindsay Clancy case because both sides were back in court for a hearing on September 29th. And look, I always read your DMs, guys, I know. And once this hearing happened and once Reddington said what he said, the amount of messages of people be like, you're gonna talk about it, Annie? You're gonna talk about it? Oh, you're real silent now, aren't you? And I'm like, No, I'm in freaking Korea and I don't have a mic. I will talk about it. So I am here and we are going to talk about it. So the hearing was basically to set a new trial date, go over some of the post-trial motions that have been have been made since the trial, and Reddington made a few statements and appealed to the judge in a way that makes made a lot of people believe oh he thinks.

Pat—

not Pat, I don't want to say he thinks Patrick did it because he has come out saying he doesn't believe Patrick did it, but saying there's not enough evidence. So the biggest issue was that Kevin Reddington was asking Judge Sullivan to essentially step in and find Lindsay not guilty, arguing that the state simply did not present enough evidence during the trial to prove that she killed her children. And he tried this once before, if you remember, before closing arguments, I believe it was. He tried this as well, saying they haven't met the burden of proof. You need to find her not guilty. And the judge said no. Now he was trying again. Now prosecutors obviously disagreed and said that there was plenty of evidence, including digital data, uh, Patrick's testimony, and Lindsay's own statements. Which, before you interrupt me or scream at your AirPods and say, well, her own statements are because Patrick said, Patrick said—

I know, I know.

But they're saying, you know, we are— we don't agree with this. I think there's plenty of evidence. But of course, people have started talking a lot about Reddington's argument here because all throughout the trial, the defense was arguing that Lindsay wasn't criminally responsible. And that argument was because the trial wasn't— what's the word I'm looking for? Split. What's the word? It starts with a B. Whatever, you guys know what I'm talking about. But because the trial wasn't split, which he initially tried to do, so then at that point The only real legal argument he could make is not guilty by reason of insanity. So understand that as well. But now Reddington is basically saying from this hearing, like, okay, but you also didn't prove that she did it. There wasn't enough evidence. The investigation was bad. All of these things. Now, was that purely because that's the argument that he needed to make for a required finding of the judge to find her not guilty? Probably. But it is an interesting shift because Because like I said, everybody online— not everybody, but a lot of the people who do believe that either Patrick's involved or somebody else is involved— said, oh, this is Reddington saying there's not enough proof, there's not enough evidence.

He's actually now going to try to get Lindsay off entirely with not guilty. I think that that is absolutely true. I think that— I don't think it's because he believes that she's not guilty. I don't think that it's because he believes Patrick did this, because not only has he spoken out in multiple interviews since the trial saying leave Patrick alone, Patrick is a good— was a good husband, a good father, all of these things. But also, he never disputed the fact that Lindsay did this, which again, I know that that was the argument that he had to go with, not guilty by reason of insanity, during the first trial. But even after that, he was vocal about the shortcomings of the healthcare system and all of those things. But now, if you're going to go to a retrial, of course, as a defense attorney, your strategy is going to be get my client off by all means necessary, whether that's saying there's not enough evidence to prove that she did this, whether that's trying to bring in enough reasonable doubt. Probably not an alternative suspect because I don't think there's enough evidence to bring that in, but certainly enough evidence with reasonable doubt.

You don't have to prove who killed the children. All you have to do is prove there's not enough evidence to convict Lindsay of it. A perfect example, which is I think also a big reason why people think there's corruption and cover-up and all these things in this case is Karen Reed, right? They didn't have to prove that the Alberts killed John O'Keefe or that he was killed in that basement. They just had to prove from the defense's side that Karen didn't do it. Or they— I'm sorry, they didn't even have to prove that. And obviously it's not their burden of proof, it's the state's. So I'm saying that loosely, but their job is just to cast enough reasonable doubt and poke holes in the state's presentation. They don't have to be— they're not the ones who have the burden of saying, well, here's who really did it and let me prove why. So I know that was really long-winded, but all to say, I do believe this is a strategy from Reddington trying to do whatever he can for Lindsay. I don't think it's because he truly believes that Lindsay didn't do this and believes somebody else did.

Not at all. Especially based on things he said. And especially too, because he is open to a plea deal, which if he truly thought that he could prove that she's not guilty, that there was enough evidence that she didn't do this— remember, he said he loves her like a daughter. You think he would accept a plea deal? Most likely not. So strategy, yes. Do I think that it's because he's going to finally have that mic drop moment and either implicate Patrick in any way or something else? No. I think he's gonna say, use it to his advantage of, look, they took it at face value for what it was. There was never a really thorough investigation even looking into other people. Let me cast as much doubt as I can to prove that, like, to show that they didn't prove their argument that she did this. There's not enough proof, not enough evidence, and like, let's see what comes of it. However, a few days after that hearing, Judge Sullivan made a ruling on that motion, and on October 1st, he denied Reddington's request to find Lindsay not guilty, saying that there was enough physical and circumstantial evidence for a jury to potentially convict her.

He also said that whether the jury believed the defense experts who testified that Lindsay wasn't criminally responsible because of her mental health was ultimately for the jury to decide, not him. Now, there were supposed to be a handful of other motions that were talked about at this hearing too. However, most of them got postponed to November 2nd. That's when the next hearing is scheduled to be. But here's the thing that a lot of people are talking about in all of this: the new trial date and what that potentially would look like. When would that be? How soon and how quickly would that come? Because that's what this hearing was originally supposed to be about. Well, Judge Sullivan wanted to get another trial on the calendar. However, both Both sides had asked to hold off until these motions that they had talked about were done, the ones that got postponed, um, until those motions were decided. I personally think that that's because they are going to have some sort of plea deal in place. That's just my personal opinion. I think that they want to see how these motions are decided. Then the state is going to determine, hey, should we offer a plea deal?

Which would, in my opinion, look like her going into a facility. for X amount of years seeking treatment. I don't think that it would include any prison time, but that's just my guess. And I don't think Reddington would accept anything that included prison time. I do think he would accept something of her going into a treatment facility. Um, however, what's interesting is people noticed that Reddington specifically said he would not be available for another trial until June of 2027.

Oh wow.

Which interestingly enough, that just so happens to be the same month that Judge Sullivan reaches Massachusetts' mandatory retirement age. So is that another strategy? Is that a coincidence? Who knows? But people are definitely putting it together and being like, oh, is that because he wants a new judge entirely on this case? What's gonna happen there if he's delaying it? Is that more likely to box in the state into offering a plea deal because they don't wanna wait until then and they don't want a new judge? Who really knows? So for now, Lindsay has not been acquitted. Another trial is, yes, still on the table, but there is no new trial date yet. Everybody is going to be back in court for another hearing on November 2nd, and I will be following it to see what comes out, and I will bring you the updates.

So can you do that? Can you say, I'm just not available for over— or for like—

Yeah, if your like schedule is so packed. Because think about if you're like a sought-after attorney, you're working on things for a long time, going through discovery, all these things. You could say like, I'm not available until then.

But the judge probably could fight back and argue, but But if that was a strategy, you'd have to what, fill your calendar with stuff?

Yeah.

That's kind of crazy. I know. Because then I feel like, I don't know, like where, like what's the boundary there? What if someone's booked out for 2, 3 years? Like you're just gonna, I mean, there's gotta be something in place where it's like, no, sorry, you have till then to find a new representation or something.

There probably is something because people do have, um, you have a right to a speedy trial.

That's, I was gonna say that, but I'm like, I don't wanna quote that wrong.

Um, However, I do know in a lot of other cases too, when it's been like a very complex case, it takes so much time to even get through the discovery because it's boxes and boxes and thousands of papers. And so they say like, we can't go to trial for a year because we just don't have enough resources to even get through all the evidence and be well equipped enough and prepared enough for a trial. So I don't know, we will see.

Wow. I know, I know everyone's so split on this one.

I know.

I saw them coming for you.

They were coming, but that's fine. We all can agree to disagree in the clerb. We all fam.

Well, this next one everyone has also been asking about.

Oh my gosh, I know.

And it's a lot.

No, it's so much. I'm doing the deep dive right now.

Yeah, I honestly didn't even know this was possible. So today we're going to talk through a very brief summary of Christa Pike. And what happened with her execution. But as Annie said, a deep dive is coming.

And as soon as I heard about the failed execution, I was like, hold on, what'd this like chick even do? What's going on? It's so much worse than I even could have imagined.

I had— yeah, I had never heard of her, to be honest. And it sounds like I don't want to know about her.

And look, like, I believe in the death penalty. I truly do. But I also would be lying I said that after hearing what she did to even receive the death penalty, I'm not kind of happy it didn't work.

Really?

And that she was in pain and that her arm was burning and that she's incapacitated.

Okay. Well, let's get into it in your words.

Let's get into it.

Christa Gail Pike is a convicted murderer who became the only woman on death row in Tennessee and the first woman to be set to be executed in Tennessee in over 200 years. She was convicted of first-degree murder for the 1995 torture and killing of her 19-year-old classmate Colleen Slemmer. So in January of 1995, when Christa was just 18 years old, she and her then-boyfriend and friend lured Colleen into a secluded area on the University of Tennessee agricultural campus. Colleen was tortured and beaten for more than 30 minutes. A pentagram was carved into her chest. Her skull was crushed with a piece of asphalt, and after she died, Krista kept a piece of her skull as a souvenir.

Like I said, yeah, I— lethal injection until you don't die but that your arm is burning.

I mean, what 18-year-old even thinks of doing that?

A psychopath.

That's wild.

Yep.

So again, very brief summary. There's a lot that goes into this case, but ultimately Krista was found guilty and sentenced to death. She spent the next She spent the next 30 years on death row, and on September 30th of this year, she was scheduled to be executed at 10 AM. But as you probably know by now, things did not go as planned. Less than 2 hours before the execution, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals issued a temporary stay while they reviewed evidence surrounding Christa's PTSD and severe childhood trauma. But then later that evening, the U.S. Supreme Court cleared the execution to proceed. Then, just before 7:30 PM, the curtains to the execution chamber opened and Christa was strapped to a gurney with an IV in her right arm and her spiritual advisor by her side. When she was asked if she had any last words, Christa said, quote, I'm going to leave this world the way I spent most of my life, and that is with love, end quote. She also said she loved the people who were angry with her just as much as the people who were on her side and said, quote, I'm at peace and ready to go.

Then the execution process started. Krista was given a dose of phenobarbital, the medication that's used for lethal injections, but within minutes she started complaining about her arm, saying that it felt like it was about to burst open and that was really throbbing. And instead of quickly becoming unconscious like everyone had expected, she continued moving around for the next 10 to 15 minutes. She kicked her legs hard enough that the sheet covering her actually came off, sang with her spiritual advisor, lifted her head to look at the IV in her arm, moved her jaw around, and took these extremely deep breaths that witnesses said moved her entire body, so much so that it looked like her body was actually levitating off the gurney. Could you imagine being there and seeing that?

Yeah.

I feel like that would make me Pass out, like, of sheer shock.

Yeah.

I would not even imagine what that was like.

Yeah.

Now, eventually the curtains did close for several minutes, and witnesses said they could clearly hear Krista snoring. It's believed that this is when she received the second dose of phenobarbital. And then when the curtains opened again, Krista appeared to be asleep and loudly snoring. But witnesses say that at different points, it almost looked like she was choking. She lifted her head, let out a loud grunt, And then continued taking these deep, labored breaths. And the way the witnesses described it was almost like it was a scene out of The Exorcist, which is what I was kind of envisioning. Yeah, it'd be freaky. Jerking and like involuntary movements is kind of how I was picturing it.

It'd be freaky to watch.

Yeah. But just after 8 PM, Krista was reportedly gasping for air, and the curtains were then closed again this time. And this time they were closed for good. But witnesses still stayed in that room for another 50 minutes afterward, completely confused about what was happening and still able to hear Christa snoring behind the curtain. Eventually, they were asked to leave, and as they walked out, they saw emergency vehicles arriving at the prison. Christa was then taken by ambulance to the hospital for medical treatment. And I think that's where an obvious question here is that a lot of people are asking, is like, why, if this person is scheduled to be executed, are they then having these life-saving measures and taking her to the hospital for medical treatment? when they were again just trying to execute her.

Yeah.

Which— that surprised me too. Well, there were 2 big problems. Tennessee's execution protocol only allows for 2 doses of the lethal injection drug, and Krista had already received both. And at that point, leaving her there suffering while they waited for her to die raised constitutional concerns about cruel and unusual punishment. And regardless of how anyone feels about it, there are still legal limits on how an execution is able to be carried out, and that varies by state as well. At the hospital, Krista was placed on a ventilator and was in critical condition. She stayed that way for about 6 days, but then on Tuesday of this week, she woke up. And not only did she wake up, but she was able to speak. Her attorneys say that her prognosis is unclear, but at a minimum, she will have a very long recovery. So what happened? Well, according to an emergency court filing, Krista's IV apparently blew, causing the fentobarbital to go inside the tissue of her arm and spread throughout her body rather than going directly into her bloodstream. So now her attorneys are asking the governor of Tennessee to commute her sentence to life in prison rather than death.

And if Krista wakes up with brain damage severe enough that she no longer can even understand that she's being executed and why, she could potentially be deemed incompetent for execution automatically. The governor has also stopped all executions in Tennessee for the rest of 2026. Well, the state investigates exactly what happened and whether or not it could have been prevented or how this all went so wrong. So again, there will be a deep dive on this very soon, and we'll have a lot more in-depth information and maybe even more updates on her condition at that time.

Yeah, I probably will have more updates on her condition, but I mainly wanted to like dive into why was she found— like, why was she— no, not why was she found guilty, but why did she get the death penalty? Because I think she was like, what, the first woman ever to be executed?

She's in Tennessee. Yeah. And like in death on death row, she was the first woman to be put on death row.

Yes. I was like, so I was curious, like, what was this crime that she did? And once I started getting into that, that's where I was like, oh, holy shit. So I don't know if this was like divine intervention, prolonged suffering, or what happened here, but I'm someone who likes to believe that like justice is justice is justice and couldn't have happened to a better person.

Well, what happened to the other 2 involved, which I know you'll tell us, but stay tuned for Monday. Yeah.

Stay tuned. Um, yeah, this is really freaking scary. I don't know, where are you? What do you feel like? Do you feel like it's sad and bad and she should have just been put down? Do you think that like she should have had the firing squad instead? Because also think about that too. I get lethal injection is not a pleasant experience. However, when you are getting a drug administered via IV and it's supposed to incapacitate you within seconds or minutes, I only can think of when I've gone under general anesthesia. That's what I was thinking about. Yeah, for surgery. And like No offense, but it's pretty peaceful. It's the most pleasant experience out there. I'm like, what's the street name for this drug? No, like, it, you know, whenever I've had to go under for surgery or anything, it's like they just say, start counting back and you go to sleep. So I'm like, and I get lethal injection from what I've heard, and I've never heard obviously from anyone firsthand, but like maybe now I can. But like from what I've heard, it's not pleasant and it does burn when it's going in because of how strong it is.

But still, like. Like, that to me seems like a much more humane way to die than the firing squad or like the electric chair. The electric chair. What was that movie? The Green Mile with the dry sponge?

When it, when it went bad. Yeah. Like, that's kind of what I like. That to me is torturous. I, I don't know. I guess.

But like, if you are someone who's so callous that you not only at such a young age committed such a heinous murder and he's torturing—

he's torturing a souvenir. Yes.

You take the school, like you are a sociopath. So the fact that you get to just sleepy time.

No. And I know, you know, the final word she said that you're gonna talk about, which again, I didn't know anything about her.

At the crime, you mean?

Yes. At the crime. Yes. And I didn't know anything about her or what she did. I just saw her face plastered over the news and like, of course read into it. And immediately I thought, what did this girl do at 18? And, and did have sympathy. And then when I heard more of that, I'm like, oh no. Okay. And isn't it with those last words, what she says, beyond ironic, like, Isn't it ironic, don't you think?

It's, it's like your execution day, not going your way. It's okay.

Okay.

Does your new project involve singing? No, it doesn't. It should.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um, ow. Okay, so I hope that I didn't piss off a lot of people just now, but because I know some people are very against the death penalty or Conversely feel like this was an epic failure and she's a victim and she should have just like—

I mean, definitely get your shit together, Tennessee, and figure out what went wrong because that should not have happened.

Well, it seems like the IV just blew and that I, I've had IVs blow in me before and like—

2 times it doesn't work?

Well, if they used the same port and just inject, they wouldn't have known that it blew. They would've used the same port and just re-injected.

And it went into her tissue again. Or not into her, not yet.

Into the tissue, not her bloodstream.

Yeah.

Um, all right. So, well, if I haven't pissed people off yet in today's episode, I was just gonna say you're about to.

If I, if I haven't ruined your day yet, it's, it's here.

So this next story has absolutely exploded over the last couple of weeks, and if you have been anywhere on social media, you've probably heard people talking about the Cornell 7. It's been all over my feed. You guys have been sending it to me. I told you I was looking into it. I did. And here I am. I'm here to talk with you about it today. Now, it started with everybody on Jane Doe's side. However, now the tide is shifting a little bit—not with everybody, but with a few people—and there is really a lot to unpack with this entire situation. So for now, what I want to do is I want to give you the basic rundown of what happened, how this was originally handled, and why the case is suddenly back under investigation and in the headlines almost 2 years after it happened. But also. For today's segment, I wanna stick with only the primary facts. As always, do your own research, form your own opinions. If you want a deep dive that goes into more of the speculation, some of the audio calls, some of the other stuff, like, absolutely let me know. But this will be a lengthier segment in general.

But I wanted to just keep it very much like, here's what we know without letting all of the noise come in, if that makes sense. So this all goes back to October 19th, 2024, when a 20-year-old Cornell University student who is identified publicly only as Jane Doe went to the Chi Phi fraternity house after a night out with friends. According to a civil lawsuit that she filed last month, Jane had already been drinking before she arrived. Then once she got to the fraternity house, she says that she was pressured into consuming more alcohol, marijuana, and ketamine. Which I will never understand why ketamine is such a popular drug with young people these days. You're not just young people, old people too. But like when we were young, it was falling into the K-hole. That's what everybody would like describe it as. The fact that ketamine is like, I, I was gonna say like the new age cocaine kind of, cuz like when we were in school it was marijuana for sure. And then people started loosely dabbling with cocaine.

Yes.

I've heard from a lot of people that people still do cocaine. Yes. But obviously are scared cuz it's cut with fentanyl and all of the things. But now that ketamine is way more popular for people to do, and that scares me.

Well, it's used like controlled in therapy now. Yes. And then I have heard, and I've talked to people who actually have a prescription for ketamine. Oh. And it's like comes even in the form of a nasal spray and it's meant to like, I think curb anxiety and like it, it's by a doctor. Like legit.

Am I, am I wrong though? Isn't it also a horse tranquilizer? Or is that something else?

No, that's what I always learned it to be. So I don't know, but I know there's these like psilocybin-led therapy sessions where ketamine and like different drugs are used. But yeah, I was shocked. I learned that this summer where somebody actually showed me they had their prescription ketamine and they're like, yeah, my doctor prescribed. I'm like, what?

Well, yeah, the fact that people are just using it recreationally, I don't know, maybe I'm a boomer, but it freaks me out.

I think it's like that with everything though. I mean, Marijuana is legal in a lot of places, and I think a lot of people shouldn't be using it and misuse it and overuse it.

That's fair. So anyway, my point is she alleges that she eventually became so impaired by all of these substances that she was drifting in and out of awareness, and that over the course of 7 hours, 7 different frat members sexually assaulted her. And one of the most disturbing pieces of evidence that has come out in this case so far is a Snapchat group chat of over 50 men who were members and alumni of Chi Phi fraternity. I think it was 57 to be exact. According to court documents and records from Cornell's investigation, at around 1:42 AM, while Jane was inside one of the bedrooms, a message was sent to that group chat on Snapchat essentially, quote, advertising that she was in there and inviting everyone to come into the room. And the messages— you, I'm sure, have seen the screenshots— they were incredibly vulgar. One said, free pussy in Alum PU. Another said, like, you can walk in and whip it out. Then at another point, someone asked whether the, quote, shop was still open. And according to Jane's lawsuit, several fraternity members eventually did go into that room and allegedly sexually assaulted her. So Jane reported what happened to Cornell University Police about 3 weeks later on November 8th, 2024, and she was formally interviewed several days after that.

However, the criminal case went nowhere. The DA's office reviewed a 6-page sworn statement prepared by Cornell police, which described Jane as voluntarily drinking and using drugs that night and described at least some of the sexual activity as consensual. And based on that information, prosecutors said that there wasn't enough evidence to prove a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Which kind of frustrates me because in that moment they didn't even take into consideration that she could have withdrawn consent at any time. Even if you start having sex consensually, at any point you can remove consent and say, hey, stop, get off of me. Like, I'm coming to, I don't wanna do this. And they didn't even seem to take that into consideration. They also, I don't know if they took into consideration that it could have been pressured consent and that it wouldn't have been consensual at all at that point, and that she was pressured into it. I don't know. There are a lot of different variables and like I said, it's incredibly messy and, but But stick with me. So when Jane's full police interview became public almost 2 years later, it painted a far more complicated picture.

Because while she described the initial sexual activity as something that she was, quote, pretty okay with, she said that later in the night she became completely incapacitated and described of what happened as coercive, and even told investigators, quote, I can say with 100% confidence I was raped. Now, that full interview was never given to the DA's office before, you know, they had decided not to bring charges, and they never independently interviewed Jane before making that decision either. Cornell, however, continued with its own investigation, which included roughly 50 interviews with 32 witnesses and 12 days of hearings. And by the end of it, the 7 men who Jane accused, they did receive some punishments, if you can even really call them that, because Because in my opinion, these punishments— and I'm going to use air quotes here— punishments are pretty freaking ridiculous. 2 of them were expelled after Cornell found them responsible for sexual assault. 2 others were suspended and placed on disciplinary probation, while a 5th person who had already graduated was banned from the campus for 3 years. Then the last 2 people involved received no contact orders were required to complete sexual misconduct training, and they also were required to what has now become the most infamous piece of punishment— again, very loosely— they had to write reflection papers.

Because yes, the main part of their punishment was that they had to write essays reflecting on the situation. But absolutely no criminal charges were brought against any of the 7 men or the other 50-plus men who were in the group chat Didn't intervene, didn't stop it, and didn't report it. Now, this lawsuit was filed on September 16th, and within a couple of days, journalists at Cornell's newspaper reported on it, which is really what brought it into the spotlight. And eventually it was all over the headlines and all over social media, which in total, the report was 101 pages, and it had been filed against the 7 men, Cornell University, Chi Phi fraternity, and several other defendants. And in total, it laid out Jane's allegations in full detail, including the Snapchat messages. And as more records from the first investigation started becoming public, so did those details about what Jane had told the police versus what the DA's office had actually received. So the case very quickly became a national story, and eventually the DA announced that the criminal investigation would be reopened. But before that investigation could even really get started, New York Governor Kathy Hochul stepped in.

She said that the newly released information raised serious questions about how the case had been handled the first time around, and on October 1st, she ended up taking it away from the Tompkins County DA's office altogether. Now, whether that's because they did such a piss-poor handling of it the first time around, or because now it's tainted with the jurisdiction, I don't really know. But she appointed the New York Attorney General as special prosecutor. Meaning that the AG's office is now going to be overseeing the entire thing, meaning the DA who didn't do anything in the first time around, he's out. He's not going to be involved. And again, none of the 7 men have been criminally charged or convicted in connection with Jane's allegations as of right now. Some of the men have also denied participating in any sexual assault. Some have now even countersued or sued the school themselves saying that they are victims because they were under the influence. So there are a lot of things that are still happening within this case. Now, I also do want to acknowledge something because there has been a lot of conversation online over the last few days questioning Jane Doe's version of events, and I don't think that it would be responsible to just pretend that that conversation isn't happening and only give you a one, you know, one perspective, point of view kind of look as to what's happening here.

So newly reported text messages and investigative records show that in the days immediately following that night, Jane Doe did not initially describe everything that happened as sexual assault, also describing some of the multiple partner encounters as being her choice, even so much as saying to a friend that she was a willing participant, that sometimes women get blamed for it when men don't, and things like that. There were interactions that she initially characterized as consensual, but then on October 30th, after learning that she had been uninvited from a Chi Hi fraternity event, she sent a very angry text in response saying, the woman will always get the short end of the stick, and she accused the guys of covering for themselves. So that has now led some people online to suggest that being uninvited is what motivated her allegations. of saying this was sexually assault, that early on she said that she was complicit, that she consented. Then after being disinvited, she felt like she was no longer welcome and felt like they looked at her a certain way. And so that sparked her to file these allegations. However, the actual timeline, when you break it down, it's far more complicated than that because a roommate had told investigators that around October 28th, which was before that text message.

She overheard Jane Doe confronting one of the men, asking him, how could you let this happen? And by November 3rd, Jane Doe was explicitly telling one of the men that she believed 90% of what happened that night was not consensual. She also sought a rape kit days later and ultimately went to the police. So yes, while there are some discrepancies between how Jane Doe initially processed and described parts of that night And the allegations that she's making today. Those discrepancies are absolutely relevant, and they undoubtedly will be scrutinized. But I think that we shouldn't collectively be so quick to, I don't know, discard what she said, think that she was lying, or, I don't know, jump to conclusions yet. There's so— it's so much right now he said, she said, and there's not enough information or proven fact to know what truly happened that night. And that's not to say she's lying, that's not to say they are lying. I'm just saying, like, we don't know enough at this moment to say conclusively one way or another. And so I think we need to be very careful about making the leap from her account evolved to she fabricated a rape because she wasn't involved— invited to a party.

At this point, there simply isn't enough evidence establishing that as a fact. And there is other evidence, though, that has to be considered alongside those inconsistencies. Including the fraternity Snapchat messages, the photograph that was circulated of her from that night, witness accounts, and Cornell's own extensive investigation. Because the truth is, even if she did consent to a 3-way, even if she consented to a 5-way, she didn't consent to being offered up sexually to a group of 57 men in a group chat. Surely she didn't. And also, I want to just point this out too. This all happened within days, right, of her texting saying that it was consensual to then rescinding that and saying that it was not. It's very normal for somebody to not fully process an event or even to try to rationalize a traumatic event in the early days while trying to figure out what really happened. It's easy to be like, play it cool and be like, no, I was a part of it. I was a willing participant. To then being like, Like, wait, I wasn't. I was so impaired. I really wasn't. Like, and I don't even remember X, Y, and Z coming into the room.

Like, it's not uncommon for it to take multiple days to process something fully and after trying to rationalize it earlier. So I just wanna point that out there. Now, can somebody years later go back and say, I don't like— yes, it gets murky. It gets murky if somebody's changing. You can't withdraw. You can withdraw consent in the moment.

Mm-hmm.

You can't withdraw consent after the fact unless you realize that you weren't actually in a state of mind to give consent in the first place because you were so impaired. I hope that's making sense. Well, yeah, and I, I feel like it's kind of talking in circles and I'm trying to do my best to explain it objectively, but like, it's complicated.

It is. And like a conversation I know we've had here at the office is just like when you're that age and you're in col— like everyone's impaired and at these parties. And so I'm not saying that means certain things should be allowed or not. Of course not. Like, but I think it's more than anything to me, like an opportunity for education, which sounds so cheesy, but it's true. It's like parents should be teaching their sons not, not to abuse. Of course, that goes without saying. But also just if you're intoxicated, you may perceive something as consensual. Mm-hmm. And it might be consensual to both, but you're both in a position where you shouldn't be making that decision.

Yeah.

So like understanding the responsibility of that. Yeah.

Having the conversations with your sons, your daughters, what consent looks like. Yes. Being very careful. And like I said, even if she did consent to having this 3-way or having a couple other people join in after the fact, it's my belief that she did not consent to being offered up to the entire fraternity group chat saying, come on, free pussy, come get it.

Da da da da da.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but this is something bigger in my opinion.

But even just—

And a big problem.

Then, I mean, in recent years it's been coming up, the revenge porn where you're not even allowed to share messages of people that are, um, you know, exposed or whatever. And so even just sending that out regardless of the context of it, you're not supposed to be doing. So I mean, she was vi— her privacy was violated in so many ways.

I agree. And I, it's, it makes me frustrated because I've seen a lot of people now saying she's not a victim, that she's doing this as retaliation because she was trying to impress one of the guys and then she got disinvited and was no longer a part, like the cool girl in the frat. And so she did this as punishment. I believe wholeheartedly that she was a victim in this. Now, to what extent, we don't know, but I don't believe that everything that happened in this situation was consensual. And I think she, It's like if you are, even if you said, to your point, even if you say it's consent, it's like if you're too impaired, like it blurs the lines tremendously. And like this crossed that boundary in so many different ways for, for what these guys did. And so the fact that people are now saying she's not a victim and questioning her integrity, that's tough because so many people are already so scared to speak up and like speak their truth when something happens, especially if they were under the influence because they carry so much shame with that. And so I don't know, like I said, there are a lot of conflicting accounts here.

That's why this needs to be fully investigated based on the evidence rather than tried on the streets of TikTok. But I wanted to at least address it, share what we know. Like I said, do your own research, come to your own conclusions, and form your own opinions. I certainly have mine. I believe she was a victim, and I believe these men need to be held accountable.

Absolutely. And I think the story has evolved so much since it came out. I'm sure there will be more details that come out. And again, I think there's just an opportunity for everyone to learn, like learn from this and like it's so horrible and so many people were affected and how easy it is to just jump in with your friends, not in that case, but just on a group chat or, and like you should speak up.

I think that's a good point too, is like don't only have the conversation with your kids about consent and with your girls about consent as well, but also have the conversation about if your child is privy to information like that or sees something, to speak up and to do the right thing.

Absolutely.

And to intervene. And like I said, I believe she was a victim. I believe that a lot, if not all of these men are to blame and that there wasn't consent. However, because they have not been criminally charged, that's why I made it a point to not share their names in this episode. Because right now it's all still allegations. It is very confusing. There is a lot of conflicting stuff out there. So once we know more and once we are able to iron out the fact versus fiction, I will probably do an update. But also, if you guys do want that deep dive, let me know. And curious to know your thoughts on this. Yeah, definitely. And look, I know that a lot of people have different opinions on this, and that's why I said do your own research, form your own opinion. However, that being said, I came across a clip recently of the Megyn Kelly Show where she's discussing this case, and I have to say, the things that she is suggesting about Jane Doe disgust me and really upset me. Because I'm going to play the clip for you, but I'm paraphrasing here.

She basically says that because Jane Doe is ugly and overweight, that she wanted this, that she was happy to get the attention from multiple male people and that it was, you know, a wanted interaction because of that, because otherwise she's not known as the pretty girl who gets the attention. And I, I have to tell you, when I first saw this, I thought maybe it was AI. I was like, there's no way that this is a real take from a human being and that these words are coming out of her mouth. However, it appears it was on her show and What I find so rich about this, because she also goes on to say at the very end of the clip how she, um, how Jane Doe only brought these allegations forward because she was uninvited from that party and she was spiteful, and how she was pissed off then, which I find that really rich considering we know from— if you've been following lawsuits and all the Fox News scandal back years and years ago that Gretchen Carlson had filed a major lawsuit against Fox News for the unwanted advances and sexual harassment by one of the top executives there.

And Megyn Kelly herself came out and said that she also experienced that and had, um, self-harm ideations because of it. And she didn't come forward with that information publicly for nearly 10 years, but yet now she's shading this girl who arguably was trying to process a very traumatic event, figuring out what exactly even happened, and started confiding in people days after it happened. She didn't even go public with what happened with her for 10 years. And I'm not saying everybody has to go public when they experience something like that, but my point is, certainly she can draw from her own experience to know that it is not always easy to come forward and to share these And that sometimes it takes time for your mind to understand what happened to you. And so I found this clip deplorable, disgusting, so vile. I— it is one of the hottest takes that I have heard in a very long time, and I cannot even believe that it is real. Again, I want to emphasize that I do believe everybody should form their own opinions and come to their own conclusions. Absolutely. However, sharing that somebody would ever potentially ask or welcome sexual assault because they are ugly or overweight feels grossly irresponsible.

So take a listen to the clip and you tell me what you think.

The absolute freakout by all women— not all of them are freaking out, but the ones who are over this— accounts for zero agency for women whatsoever. They— no one will even consider the possibility that that this woman made a decision to get it on with 4 men total, uh, not 7, and enjoyed it. Because I'm just gonna be honest, she's not the most attractive gal. She's extremely beefy in, in like her arms and her legs. She has a whole video online talking about her cankles. Um, and she Possibly enjoyed being admired. This is how women make these mistakes— admired, wanted. Some women even, you know, foolishly say loved by these guys at Cornell. But this is probably a first for her. She's probably thrilled to be so admired because she clearly didn't grow up the incredibly beautiful one. I'm not trying to be insulting. I'm just trying to tell you the narrative that is likely to have occurred here. In my opinion. And why can't we account for that possibility? That the girl who was never the most sought after suddenly had 4 guys who wanted to have sex with her, and she counted this— yeah, in her inebriated state— as a win and liked the feeling of being sexy and desired and wanted.

It happens. Sorry, it does. And that's why she kept saying yes. Why do we have to go right to she's a victim? Even she took weeks to get there. It wasn't until they told her she couldn't go to the party. We all know that, right? This is so disempowering to all of womankind, to all of us, to our daughters. We are capable of making decisions. She made the decision. to drink and then show up at a fraternity house at 11 o'clock.

I don't know, that clip just completely pissed me off. It makes me so beyond angry, and I needed to share it. And I, I don't even know where to go from here. So thank you guys so much for tuning in to another episode of Headline Highlights. If you missed it this week, on Monday I did a 2-part episode, so in total it's like 2 and a half hours but split between 2 parts on the podcast. And it's a mega deep dive into not only Chris Watts, but also exposing everything about his mistress, Nicole Kessinger. Because, you know, I've been following this case forever, and I went through over 5,000 pages of the discovery back in, gosh, was it 2022? I think maybe 2021. And so I've had, I've matched up her phone records, this and that. And so the full, like, Nicole Kessinger exposé is part 2.

Mm-hmm.

Chris Watts is part one, so that's out right now. You can go listen to that. And yesterday I released an Annie rant, which my Annie rants are basically where I talk in a way that's unfiltered, uncensored, no script, just kind of go off the rails. And that released yesterday, but it's only available on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. And it's all about Chris Watts dumping his fiancée.

Yes.

And what happened, which like, who thought if you're dumped by Chris Watts, I was like, time for some self-reflection.

I was like, wow, that's a rejection you didn't see coming.

I know. So I went a little off the rails in that episode, but it is available for you to listen to right now. So lots of content this week. And of course, on Tuesday, an all-new episode came out on my second true crime podcast, 10 to Life. So that is 1, 2, 3, 4 episodes, 5 including this one, that you have this week to listen to.

That's a lot.

It's a lot of content. That's a—

it's a lot of content for being out of town. I'm trying.

I, you know, I'm I was off for a week and I'm back in the game.

Lucky us.

All right guys, thank you so much for tuning in. Till the next one, be nice, don't kill people, don't have sex without consent, and for the love of God, please stop following Gypsy Rose. Okay, bye.