Transcript of AI Spending Spree, Crypto Winter, and Kara's Message to Jeff Bezos

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Try Odoo for free at odoo. Com. That's odoo. Com. Jeff Bezos, let me speak to you directly. I don't like you. You don't like me. So what? Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swischer.

And I'm Scott Galloway.

Go Seahawks.

You like the Seahawks?

I like Jody Allen, the owner, sister of Paul Allen. I knew her a tiny bit. I knew Paul, her brother who died, who was one of the Microsoft founders. Just really cool lady. I can't stand Robert Kraft. I think he's a terrible person. The whole Katz family was for the Patriots. It's only because they live there. Nobody likes Robert Kraft. I was happy about that.

I like the Seahawks. Well, I'm happy you're happy. The thing that summarized how I feel about it was the Elmo account said, I hope both teams have a really fun time. That's about how much I care about the Super Bowl. And the other one was, Elmo said, he's not a bad bunny, he's a good bunny.

He's a good bunny. That's how I feel. The Naga lost his fucking mind. We'll get to that. But first, let's have a little bit of resist and unsubscribed. How's it going, Scott? You everywhere. You are Like the village whore, as they say.

But go ahead. No, I'm not a whore. I'm a ho-er. Ho-er. I'm a hoa. I'm a hoa.

You are everywhere. We have a montage of Scott everywhere. Let's check it out.

Resist and unsubscribed Resist and unsubscribed. Explain to me why I should unsubscribe from Amazon Prime. If you really want to hurt or send a message to the President. What he does listen to is the following. If you look at the times when he has really checked back, immediately responded and pulled back. It's been when one or two things has happened. The bond market yields have spiked or the S&P has gone down. This is when he backed off of his plans to annex Greenland. It's when he's backed off of tariffs. When you go after big tech platforms with just a small decline in spending, this is what moves the market. I think the string we can pull here is to go after the subscription revenues of big tech that now represents 40% of the S&P. You're hitting them with a $10,000 decrease in market cap with just one subscription cancelation. This is a chance to go after the soft tissue of big tech, whose leaders the President appears to be listening to.

Soft tissue you make hard. Tell me, so tell me where we are.

Came out of the gate strong. We're getting about 100,000 Uniques a I, and I asked ChatGPT if I wanted to get 100,000 uniques with no paid, or what would it cost me to drive 100,000 people to a site. It was interesting. It said 100,000 to 200,000 for the site, but it would take 4,000 to $5 million. We're getting, quote, unquote, $4,000 to $5 million in traffic to the site, and I haven't paid a dime for anything.

No, just your time and your outfit.

But it started going down earlier in the week. I did some research on the bus strike in Alabama and then the Kimmel thing. What it ended up was that the study from Kellogg, which I'm really into about protests that are effective versus those that aren't, is the unsubscribed to Disney were actually declining dramatically. But the thing that got Disney to reverse course was a ton of media that was shaming them and creating dissent, and that the media that impacted that was traditional media. So I decided on Tuesday, I was going to get on as much traditional media as I could, and I was able to do it. And then all of a sudden, the site visits are now back to about 100,000. But just to do the math, a good e-commerce site gets 2-4% conversion. This gets more because these are people just coming to the site. People are unsubscribing 2-5 platforms, so let's call it three. I'm thinking I'm getting about 10,000 unsubscribes a day or 300,000 subscribers over the course of... Anyways, I've done the math here. I think I can notionally take about a quarter of a billion dollars of market cap out of these companies.

And does that change anything? It doesn't. It's all right.

It's irritating.

It's a voice in the choir. And I asked ChatGPT what it thought of the resistance movement so far A one is you throw a party, no one shows up. It damages your reputation, makes other protests less successful. And 10 is the President and Sam Altman are forced to scale back some of this stuff. And it said, right now you're at a six. And that is people in product management teams are probably talking about it, but not the executives yet. Oh, they are. I thought that was a fairly honest appraisal of where we are. But yeah, I've been all over the place.

I've heard from a lot. My sons know about it. I'm just telling you, it's got a lot more... I'm getting text from people I haven't heard from in a while, so it's interesting. They all like it because here's why. You can do something, right? I can do that. That's easy, right? It's not easy. I just, I should do that. It gives you permission to do something you were going to do, and it gives you a framework and instructions, right? That's why it's successful, I think, in that regard. I think you have to do some more podcasts, maybe, possibly.

Yeah.

Maybe Joe Rogan, that's where I would go.

Yeah. Well, Rogan has invited me. But, yeah, next week, this week was traditional media. I'm sorry, last week was traditional media. This week, I'll start doing- The O'Von, those people. They love you. More pods and stuff like that. So, yeah, I need to do... I was just on pierce Morgan, and that digressed into a food fight with some ultra-conservative guys calling me desperate and trying to tank the US economy because we lost the election.

Yeah, that's what you're doing.

You're an idiot. But anyways, yeah, I think you're right. I think I have to- Not food fight people.

Don't do the food fights. Don't go on any of those. I think you should go on a Brett Baer or someone like that would be useful, or any of the more reasonable people over there. They're not a handy because it's a food fight. You don't need a food fight for this. You need a, just let me explain it to you. I think Rogo and Theovon, any of those people, and they like you, right? Go on the let them, go on Mel's thing. Go on.

Yeah, but Mel makes you come up to Boston. That's the problem. Mel invited me on. I really like Mel's podcast.

Then you have to hug everybody.

So I was invited to go on the PBD podcast, but similar to Mel, he makes you come to him, and he's in Fort Lauderdale. So I don't know. I should probably make the effort.

Oh, not that guy.

Well, I got it.

He is constantly wrong.

If you want to be part of the resistance, you have to go behind enemy law.

He's going to do a food fight with you. Whatever you're going to do, end up doing a stupid food fight. You need to go on people that want to listen, and we'll have a normal debate with you, but not like, who? You don't want to be used as a chew toy for the right on this one. I'm sorry, it just doesn't.

A chew toy for the right. Yeah. I like that.

I don't know. Well, I'll think of more ideas. I have some more ideas and stunts. I mean, you'd be better off on a Mr. Beast or somewhere Something like, something where there's more like that stuff.

One of the Ground Zero CEOs called me Saturday morning, and they're so good. They're so smart. They're just like, I just want to understand it better. How are you? What could we do better? I got off the phone and I'm like, Maybe I should take them off the list. I'm like, Oh, my God. It's what they do. It's what they do.

They start massaging your feet. Oh, my God. That's what they're doing now, massaging your feet. They're not massaging your feet.

They're like, We have some disagreements, but I really respect what you're trying to do here, Scott. I'm Oh, my gosh.

I saw the post made you one of the 50.

You got to believe I was number 49. You weren't. But hold on.

Oh, they're after you. They want to massage your feet, Scott.

I'm with Ky Trump. Ky Trump is one of the... I didn't even know there was a Ky in the Trump family.

Yeah, she's a good golfer, I guess.

That's fine. It's a pretty random list.

You know what I say? You could smile more. You could smile more. No smiles in those pictures.

No, the reason I have $100,000 in veneers is so I don't have to fucking smile.

I understand. Stand. I was just using the lady thing. Anyway, let's get to the Super Bowl. Anyway, I'll think of more ideas. I appreciate that. I'll think of more stunts. Let's figure out a stunt for South by Southwest, something like that. Keep it going. That's coming up. You didn't watch the Super Bowl, right?

No? No. I have almost no interest in the Super Bowl.

So did you watch any? You watched the ads on other places where they had- I watched some of the ads that people sent to me.

Yeah.

Many of them stand out. I still like the Anthropic ones, I have to say.

I thought they won the day. I I didn't like the one on the Jewish kid being bullied. You didn't? I didn't. I don't.

Too virtue signaling?

I think there are better, more effective ways to talk about the risks of anti-Semitism. I actually don't. In a weird way, I feel like it almost normalizes it or raises the prospect of bullying a Jewish kid.

A little after-school special tone, that thing. Yeah, I don't know.

I'm so far out of it, but I do see my kids at school. Shit, I don't know. It's so It's funny. What I noticed, I don't know if you've noticed this. I went to my kid's school when he was a seventh-grader in middle school, and there were ninth-graders coming down the hall, and I was way behind him, and I thought, Oh, this is going to be interesting. In the seventh grade, if I ran into ninth-graders in an unsupervised environment, they would pants me and throw me in the trash and take my lunch money. Instead, now they're like, Hey, little man, and they high five them. I think things have changed a lot.

For some people.

In school. Anyways, but The ads are always fun to watch. I just could... The whole Bad Bunny thing, I'm like, he's the most popular entertainer in the world. Let him sing.

Let him cook. We'll get to Bad Bunny in a second. But my favorite, I really like the Anthropic. I like the alpha. I like the funny The Elf ad. There's a whole bunch of them that were super funny, and I prefer those. Of course, I have to say the Lay's potato chip ad got me. Got me.

Got me. Oh, God, I thought that was so fucking ridiculous.

I know, but it got me. I agree. I knew it was coming.

The family Family Farm. We fetishize manufacturing and farmers. The Family Farm is a corporation that's bought out all these little farmers 30 years ago. I know.

And yet it got me. I was like, Don't, don't.

How many college grad girls do I think, are trying to help dad with the family. Hot cop.

She was hot, too.

She's in PR for Prada dating a hedge fund manager. And her father's put her through Hollywood. And she's hoping to get a mini-series. But no, she's going to home to Iowa to farm with her dad.

And wear a Carhartt. She had a beautiful... That Carhartt didn't have a speck of fucking dust on it. Did you notice that? She had like a car.

It was a Ralph Lauren ad.

I know.

It had nothing to do with the family farm.

But the potato chips are delicious, let me just say. I like a laced potato chip. They're quite good. They're good chips. They're a good chip. They're a fine chip. I'm trying to think which everyone was funny. I didn't like the Emma Stone one or the George Clooney one. They were weird. I don't want the weird ones. I like the funny ones, like the Instacart. I thought the elf one was funny. I will have to say the Jesus one was good. The Christian, like Jesus knows.

I thought it was- Oh, those are always nice.

Not always. That one was well done.

No, I thought the really powerful one. I don't know if it's the same people, the Jesus Washed Their Feet, that one?

That was a million years ago.

Do you remember that from a few years ago?

That was a different one, yeah.

This was a different one? Yeah. That reminds me, and it's not totally related, but just FYI, Donald Trump has mentioned more times in the Epstein files than Jesus has mentioned in the Bible, just saying. Or that the word meth is said in all eight seasons of Breaking Bad. But anyways, not related.

Not related. Anyway, they were decent ads. I would say the Anthropic still, Head and frigging shoulders. I open it, I had one that was somewhat effective, a little bit, I guess. That was good. It was solid, but not like the Anthropic. They got knocked out by Anthropic.

But the thing I looked at, or the only insider, the thing I found really interesting is if you look at the ads, a quarter of them were AI, 15 of the 66 were AI. The last time tech was as dominant in the Super Bowl in advertising, there's been two times in the last 50 years. When they all went out of business. One was in 2022 when it was called the Crypto Bowl, and it was Binance and FTX. Look what in that year, that was the year crypto blew up and there were a ton of bankruptcies. Then the time before that, what year Super Bowl did.

The money coming out of my butt year. Remember that one?

It was 2000. January 2000, a quarter of the ads were from dotcom, pets. Com and the like, and look what happened. If you look at economic history as a ratio or as the ratio of tech ads being above a certain amount, it implies this year is when AI crashes.

I'll tell you when I hate it was a Mike Tyson one. I'm sorry. It was my government money. It was my dollars paying for Mike Tyson, who has issues of his own, to tell me to eat an apple and that fat people are loosome. I'm sorry, that was really grotesque.

I've met Mike Tyson. He's a chain smoker. Perhaps.

I know. I was literally like, That's my fucking text. All you're telling me to eat an apple? Thanks. That was really gross. And of course, these Maha people are such... You know it was all their friends that made the edit. Of course, Brett Ratner was the director. Sexual harasser with someone.

I think that's them waving their middle finger in our face.

I know, but fuck them. That's my money. That's my money. Cut it out. Don't tell me to eat an apple. But let me just focus on the Bad Bunny Half-Time show. It knocked out of the park with a projected 128 million viewers. Apple was the one that did it, and Rock Nation was the producer. They've been doing... That's Jay Zee's group. It's been doing a lot of the really great Super Bowl ones. Jay Zee has been in charge of picking Super Bowl halftime for the last seven years. They've been really good, actually. Turning Point USA, of course, had a livestream of an all-American show featuring Kid Rock, who looked like he was lip-syncing, it seemed. The reaction and re-reaction to Bad Bunny show was so joyful and fun, and it was so full of... If If you wanted to go into it and look at the layers, he's such an artist. He's the biggest artist in the world. But not just that. It was so full of stuff, but you could also just enjoy it if you didn't know about.

It was hopeful, it was fun. I realized people asked me what I thought of the performance. I'm like, It's not for me. Tom Petty or George Michael can't be there, which they can't. But what I realized is it's not for me. It was a brilliant move on behalf of Roger Goodell because the NFL is investing in the future because more than 50% for the first time of people under the age of 18 are non-white. People identified... People saw it as anti-American, Puerto Rican or Ecuador. No, Reagan said it best, Anyone can come to America and be an American. That's uniquely what makes America America.

They're so butter because the culture war is they're not winning it. Nobody wants to watch Kid Rock. By the way, I should do a dramatic reading of Kid Rock's lyrics. These people, they were defending it, including that guy's You want to go on? They're like, Oh, Kid Rock. I'm like, literally, he talks about putting balls in the mouth. Come put your ball.

Okay, but the retort there is now do rap stars.

Of course, but this wasn't Bad Bunny. Fine. It was a bunch of really hot- It was pretty clean.

I agree. You know who the other big winner was in the Super Bowl? Was the prediction market apps. Yeah, what did they say? Coushe downloads Spike last month. The app recording 4 million downloads in January. That's up from less than 2 million in December. And not like that, it's killing. What did they say? It's It's killing the gambling apps. The prediction market apps from DraftKings and FanDuel got just 100,000 downloads.

Certainly, the more people that use it, the better. But let me just finish up on Bad Bunny. It was a great show. It was very like, you had Pedro Pascal as a background person. And Cardi B and a whole bunch of people. I thought Ricky Martin was lovely, looking fantastic, and Lady Gaga was great. It was so joyful. For them to attack it, it shows just what a bunch of fucking losers they are. I'm sorry, they just really are. It was so beautiful and so life-affirming and forward-thinking, and it is where our country is in a lot of ways. All I wanted to do is I've been trying to take Spanish myself.

It's a beautiful language I take it for five years in high school, or I took them in the seventh or 12th grade. I can barely order in a Mexican restaurant. Me, too.

I have to. This is the year I learn Spanish.

This is the year. But what I try to do is I try to take economic trends away from the Super Bowl, specifically the advertising. The two trends are the following: one, it looks like this is the year that AI might crash because there's so much cheap capital going into it vis-a-vis the Super Bowl. The second thing is there's been a huge transfer in economic value or market capitalization from the gaming apps to the prediction apps. In just the last three months, the earnings per share estimates for Flutter Entertainment, which is the gaming or the gambling apps, has been cut in half. Draftkings earnings estimates are also down 29%. The biggest apps for the gambling apps, and now the speculation markets are eating their lunch.

Absolutely. And as you noted, the NFL made a great choice here in terms of how it handles that. Smart, really smart. The beautiful visual of San Francisco on the front, which I'm sorry to tell you was a rainbow flag, kids. But also good for San Francisco, looking great. All these people are like, What were they talking about? Looking great. San Francisco is on the upswing, and I have to say- It was great for your city.

It was like a chamber of commerce. The The only time I turned it on was late at night, it was 11: 30, and it started. It was immediately this beautiful vista of the Golden Gate Bridge around the golden hour. You're just like, wow. Occasionally, there's a moment when you're in California, and you're like, Why did I leave again? All the time.

Why did I leave again? Exactly. Every fucking day of the week and twice on Sunday. Oh, my God. When I wake up at my house- The fog comes in over the golden gate, cleans all the shit out of the air, and then it's crystal clear and sharp and I mean, it is a beautiful city. Every morning I wake up there, Scott, I weep. Louis is moving there. Just so you know, my son will be moving to San Francisco and working for someone who's in politics there. But I'm so jealous of him. Anyway, he's living in the.

Elmo says bad bunny is a good bunny.

He's a good Bunny. Anyway, let's move on to the... Speaking of crypto, while the DAO hit a milestone high of 50,000 last week, crypto has been heading the other way into a crypto winter again. Bitcoin has just had its worst weekly decline in more than three years, down roughly 45% from its all-time high last October. The downturn is being blamed on a few things. Volatility in other markets, terror fears, uncertainty around Fed share nominee Kevin Marsh. I don't know about that. The ongoing decline has been brutal. For some of crypto's biggest champions, Michael Saylor's strategy, I know you're an admirer, just reported a $12. 4 billion quarterly loss. Wow. But don't expect a Bitcoin bailout. Treasury Secretary Scott Besson said in Congressional hearing last week that he has no authority to do that. Of course, Trump was crypto president. Nice job, David Sacks, by the way. They got what they wanted, the crypto people from Trump, everything they wanted. They got rid of the Gary Gensler, they got rid of Sherrod Brown, they got rid of critics. What's happening here?

Well, first off, I should just point out that I am easily the worst crypto investor in history. Yes, because you just put- I finally threw in the towel and I bought some shares in a Bitcoin treasury company. I bought it at 14, and within 45 days, I sold it at $4. 50.

Oh, nice done. Well done. Well done.

Yeah, well done. Look, CoinMarketCap's Crypto and Fear Greed Index is now at a nine, indicating extreme fear. This is the highest reading, and the index is nearly three years of existence. Bitcoin has basically been cut in half since it's high. Investors had two and a half billion dollars of Bitcoin liquidated in just one day alone. Even after Friday's- And certain Bitcoin.

Bitcoin and then the others have gone down 90 now, like the Melania coin, the Trump coin.

Oh, the shitcoins, yeah. Even after Friday's rebound, Bitcoin is down 43% from its peak. Then the stocks related to Bitcoin per year comments have been hammered. Microstrategy is down nearly 70% from its peak last summer and down 15% this year. Coinbase is down 60% from its summer peak, down 30% this year. Tom Lee's BitMine is down 85% from its peak and 34% this year. Cryptovolatility is currently about 8X higher than that of the S&P 500. But what I would say the following, and I don't get this market. I respect that Bitcoin has established itself as a tangible asset because of scarcity value, because of its technology. I think the rest is pure speculation. But what typically has happened over the last decade is when Bitcoin has these draw downs and there's all this fear, over the last 10 years, when we look back, those have been buying opportunities. I always like to talk about what I'm thinking of doing. If Bitcoin keeps getting hammered, I actually might buy a little bit, not because I believe in crypto, but because I like diversification. I do think this market is incredibly volatile. I do think Bitcoin has established itself as a legitimate asset class.

But what's unusual is typically Bitcoin is meant to be, it should benefit from a weak dollar in inflation, and it's not. It ends up that it's not the default contraindicator of a weakening dollar.

Silver, gold, that stuff.

We'll see. At the end of the day, crypto is really... It's not investing, it is speculation. I would argue that a little bit of money, 1-3% of your portfolio in Bitcoin may not be a bad idea.

And only Bitcoin, not the other shitcoins.

I would not do any of the others. The others, to me, are just greater fool theory come to life.

Yeah, you've sucker. I call them sucker coins.

They're really sick. You have to watch it every day and all this stuff. It can take a real... Volatility is fine. If you're willing to endure volatility, it means you'll greater returns. But what you want to do is you want to diversify across multiple volatile asset classes such that your mental health is somewhat protected. One of the reasons I like owning real estate is I don't have a scorecard every day. Yeah, you just buy it. Also Hope for the best. If you're looking at your phone too much, and you're really good at this, if you're looking at your phone too much because you're checking your stocks all the time, A, that's a hit to your human capital, and B, you never want to go all in on one thing because the markets Trump individual dynamics. If you bought $10,000 with Amazon in 1999, it was worth $400 by the end of 2000. That takes a huge emotional toll on you. What you want to do is you want to be diversified and you want to be in good ETFs, good indexes, and then put them away and not look at them and think of them as things you want to hone for 5 or 10 years.

Look at them once a quarter if you can. I don't look at all. You know that. Yeah. I think your to investing is actually the right approach to investing.

I'm hoping when I'm... It doesn't really matter. I was thinking I was doing again the math again that I keep forgetting to do. I'm like, Well, when Saul is going to be able to drink, he'll be 21, Alex will be 37, I'll be 100 and fucking 12. It doesn't really matter to save for retirement.

It doesn't matter. You don't even buy green bananas anymore.

You know what? All I need is money to put me in a home and have nice nurses. I can swing that with what I've got, even if I lost a lot. Anyway.

I'll be pushing you around.

No, no, wrong. I'll be pushing you around. Other way.

I'll hire really hot nurses. I'll manage that. I'll manage that side of your life.

I'll manage them for you. What are you talking about? I'm like, yes, he's a little handsy, but just put up with it. I'll give you an extra 10.

A little handsy.

A little handsy. Handsy-ish. Just slap them.

Just slap them. I told you. I already have my nurse picked out, a guy named Maruelo, very big, with very well moisturized hands.

I'll have some men there that manhandle you. Anyway, Anyway, let's go on a quick break. We come back Amazon spending spree and what Jeff Bezos is saying about the Washington Post's future. All stupid things, just FYI. Support for this show comes from Delete Me. Whether you're a public figure or a private citizen, it's easier than ever for bad actors to get your personal information. I've tried delete me a lot, and I really have had a great time figuring out how much information data brokers have about me. It's scary and it's surprising, and I am always disturbed by how much they bring together and how sometimes wrong it is. It's really important to get your data in line with things. A dashboard on delete me is very easy to use, and you can tell them what you want deleted and what you want to keep an eye on. Delete me It makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. With DeleteMe, you can protect your personal privacy or the privacy your business from doxing attacks before sensitive information can be exploited.

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99% uptime and enterprise-grade security with no add-ons required. Two hundred and eight million businesses around the world rely on Wix for their websites, because with Wix, you can own your individuality, create freely, and scale fearlessly. Ready to create a website? Go to wix. Com/harmony. That's wix. Com/harmony. Scott, we're back. Amazon spending plans are making waves on Wall Street after the company's single massive catbacks ramp up. Amazon said it expects to spend about $200 billion in 2026, nearly a 60% increase from last year. Ceo Andy Jassie justified the spending by sending strong demand for AI, robotics, chips, and satellite. Makes sense for their business in a lot of ways. The announcement appears to spook investors, though, sending stock down 10% and wiping $133 billion off of Amazon's market cap. What a massive amount. Let's talk about this. They are at the same time, the suck-upery that Jeff Bezos has been doing, and Andy Jassie, too, for Trump is reaping benefits under Trump's new tax, the company's corporate tax bill fell to about $1. 2 billion last year, down from $9 billion the year before, even though profits jumped roughly 45%. So what Scott says is corporate taxes.

Just like this has been a boom for... Trump has been a boom for these people. So talk a little bit about these spending because they need to spend in robotics. They obviously need AI to go with the robotics and chips and of course, satellites delivery. They have such an unusual business that it's both analog and advertising and where they market things. It seems like a company that should be spending here, but your thoughts?

Well, the problem with, or one of the things that makes our economy so fragile is just a small number of companies that can allocate this capital. This week and last, Amazon, Google, Meta, and Microsoft unveiled plans to spend a combined 660 billion on AI build-out this year. That's a 60% increase from last year. Apple is the only big tech company whose CapEx decrease from last year. And the sheer magnitude, it's just shocking. That's three times the global R&D of the pharmaceutical industry. So we're now spending more on data centers and chips. We're spending triple what we're spending on trying to research treatments for cancer and diabetes. They're spending more than it cost to build the US interstate highway system. We're spending more. Those four companies are going to spend more than we spent on the Apollo Moon program and the international space station combined. It's the equivalent of spending about $2 billion a day on AI. But what I think you're looking for, if I look at the stocks that are responding to the market positively versus negatively, it's, okay, a big eye is really impressive because it separates you from the rest. Snap can't spend billions of dollars to increase the AI targeting of its ad stack.

Most companies just can't spend that money. But the company that's really done well here is a company that not only has the huge eye, huge CapEx, but also is right away showing that they can garner the return that justifies that eye. And that company is Meta. Meta is showing increased click-through, increased advertising, increased ARPU, and it's saying, This is working for us, so we're going to outspend every other media company in the world, maybe with the exception of Alphabet. But these types of investments, there's just no getting around them. They're absolutely staggering. I can't figure out if it's good bad. I guess I'm hoping it results in a lot of vocational jobs.

Wouldn't you imagine lots of their business does need this stuff? Speaking of advertising, they do a lot of it in marketing, right? So they have to understand what's effective to bring up for people when they search on Amazon, their logistics of their various centers, the fulfillment centers, the robotics. It seems like a lot of this stuff does lend itself to AI being more efficient or giving them efficient instructions. I would imagine their business lends itself to this. You're right, they're the only ones that can spend this much. Then once it's spent, nobody can catch them ever.

It's just going to have very weird second-order effects because if you look at where the money is being spent, if you look at data centers, most of them could have their lights up during the day. A huge data center that costs hundreds of millions to build, employs what a Chilli's employs. Obviously, a huge burst in vocational skills. But then what happens, there's no really ongoing employment here. What I look at is, all right, if you think about... I mean, people say, Is AI going to affect me? My standard line has been AI is not going to take your job. Someone understands AI is going to take your job. What you need to think about is, is AI complementary to what I'm doing or is it a substitute? Justin Wolfers, the economist from Michigan, pointed this out. If you think My mother was a secretary. She would be out of work right now because AI came along and word processors. At the same time, everyone thought ATMs was going to put bank tellers out of business. There are now more bank tellers than there were pre-ATM because what they said is, Let's use technology to upskill you so you can give people mortgages, figure out their financial planning.

So just at a ground level, it's like, Okay, how do I use AI as a weapon as opposed to being on the wrong end of the weapon? But the economic reshaping here is just staggering. But I do think we're at that point now with all great technologies that end up going on to be hugely important, that this is... I think we're overdue for a correction. And the technology I keep coming at, and I'm about to buy stock, is Novo Nordisk just hit a five-year load. Novo Nordisk, actually, it rebounded yesterday, but Novo Nordisk, the maker of, I think it's, I forget which one it is, was Amprix or Ragovi. I always tell people the most important technology is not AI, it's GLP on and talk to somebody who loves AI and uses it.

Speaking, there was an ad for Serena Williams did, a Super Bowl, by the way.

Well, talk to someone who uses a lot of AI at their work, really enjoys it, gets a lot of use out of it. But that person is also on GLP-1. Ask them what's having a more profound impact on their life.

Can you do a short rant about the corporate taxes and the benefits of being in the Trump administration for these companies by sucking up?

Well, look, as a percentage of GDP, Basically, corporate taxes have never been lower, and as a percentage of GDP, wages have never been lower. As a percentage of corporate profits have never been a higher percentage of GDP. In some, There's always a healthy tension between capital and labor. But basically what you have with AI, shareholders love AI, because what you're seeing across all of these companies is margin expansion, but no incremental increase in employment.

And then lower taxes.

That's great for shareholders elders. Then the lower tax argument is basically the strategy for the last 40 years in the Republicans. If we just lower taxes, it'll trickle down. All it's doing is just pushing back debt on young people. But if you just look at the balance, if you just assume at some point we have to pay for our Navy and our parks and for food stamps, the question is, well, who pays?

I can't believe they went from 9 billion to 1. 2 billion. That is a savings. That is a... God, I wish my taxes were there.

Repeat that, Cara?

Amazon's new tax law, the companies This is Amazon's corporate tax bill fell to 1. 2 billion.

Automatic expensing. Yeah.

Profits down to 45%.

The tax code has gone from 400 pages to 4,000, and the 3,600 pages, one by one, fucked the middle class. These aren't malicious people who say, Let's fuck the middle class. What they are is really talented people on behalf of lobbies like Amazon that says, Let's figure out a way to expense all capital expenditure in year one.

But it's Trump's new tax law. It's even more advantageous to them. This This was always the game, folks, is them getting more for themselves. It really was with Trump. Some of them don't like him. Some of them do.

This has been happening across Democratic and Republican administrations.

Yes, agreed. But this new tax law is 1. 2 from 9 billion. That's quite a lovely two.

I agree with you. Two things can be true at once. Biden, for all the talk about progressive policies and the need to reduce the deficit, taxes on corporations went down. During the Biden administration. Here's the bottom line. The only way you get reelected, which must include reservations and blow jobs because these people cling to power like an African dictator. That was both offensive and a hate crime and racist. But these people have decided that they will do anything to stay in office. The way they stay in office is with a thoughtful lobbyist who says, Oh, just implement this one little tax change called 1202, where entrepreneurs and VCs get their first 10 million out. And incrementally, what we have done is lower taxes on the 0. 1% in corporations and we haven't raised taxes on the middle or low income. That's a myth. What we've done is we've raised taxes on future generations with $7 trillion in spending on $5 trillion in receipts. The people who've had their taxes increase the most are a 55-year-old who is now $2. 25. Because we have the full faith in credit to borrow that money, that full faith and credit and that borrowing power will go away.

At some point, someone's going to have to pay the piper either through massive inflation or revolution or much higher taxes.

Yeah, absolutely. It's kissing up works. But Speaking of kissing up, Jeff Bezos is finally speaking about the future of the Washington Post following last week's layoffs. He said in his statement, The Post had an essential journalistic mission and an extraordinary opportunity. Bezos added that readers provided a roadmap to success and that data tells us what his value were to focus. Well, data, they all left after he did any number of things. The Bezos' statement came shortly after a Post CEO and publisher, Will Louis announced his exit from the paper. I think it was exited from the paper, allegedly. First CFO, Jeff Donofreo, I met him when he was at one of the tech companies with CFO, is stepping in as acting CEO. I'm going to comment on this. Data tells us what is valuable. You're kidding. No shit, Sherlock. At the same time, you have to create products that doesn't necessarily follow data. You have to use both data and creativity to create a journalistic product. I mean, anyone would tell you, Don't get together with Scott Galloway data speaking. And of course, it worked out beautifully. You have to have lots and lots of things that go into But media, Jeff Bezos has made a number of errors recently over the last two years, and that's the reason people have fled in droves from the post, as other places are doing much better in the York Times, Wall Street Journal, the numbers are up.

Lots of really interesting independent media companies. It's not true that he couldn't do something better here. And of course, he's never blamed himself for this fuck up. Will Lewis, Goodridden's has been terrible. Bezos, again, did not step in and deal with this guy when he was very clearly fucking up. So that's my thoughts. You don't have to have any, but you can.

What I don't get is, and maybe you've done some reporting here, we have this ideas about putting together a new group. The bottom line is it's subscale. Why wouldn't the New York Times or even the Wall Street Journal take this on and start out some of the overhead costs, but take that traffic and a great brand and try and do something with it. They could.

I would think Bloomberg is always the one. Oh, Bloomberg.

That's a great one.

Bloomberg, to me, would be the most... But he's getting on. I mean, I hate to say it. A younger Bloomberg, certainly. That was one of the possible buyers way back when, when they were trying to keep it out of Rupert Murdoch's hands. But you're right, the Wall Street Journal would be interesting. But why I'll call Mary Levin and ask her, and she'd probably just go, What do I need that for?

What do I need that headache?

What do I need that headache? They've got a great Washington firm. What do they get? What are they getting? Nothing.

Well, I'm just going to be I'll tell you how this would work. They would go in, they buy the brand, they buy the subscription. They pick their 40 or 60% most talented journalists.

Most of whom they've hired, but go ahead.

They'd clear out the admin, the sales teams. The bottom line is print journalism, whatever you want to call this type of journalism, is in structural decline. It requires, and everyone wants to talk about reinvention, sure, you have to invest in innovation, but more than anything, it requires consolidation and cost-cutting. The Washington Post... I would just think that the Washington Post would be an outstanding Washington Bureau, and they built a lot of credibility. They have a decent subscriber base.

It's not a decent... It's A lot of decency. It was until this past year, it's cratered because of decisions Jeff Bezos has made, direct decisions by Jeff Bezos.

I've heard their website traffic is off by nearly a half in the last three years.

It's crazy. Anyway, it's- But you're buying- You're buying a great brand. A vehicle is how I look at it.

But what you have to do is, I hate to say this, it's a perfect candidate for a prepackaged bankruptcy. Oh, interesting. And that is you declare bankruptcy, You clear out all the obligations, including probably even overpriced headquarters, all the obligations they have, and you say, Okay, 30% of you are keeping your job, and that's it. No solution here is elegant that's going to paint a brave new... Everyone's hoping. If there's some guy who comes in and thinks, You know what? I got five or six billion dollars. I'll waste a billion over the next 10 or 20 years. Fine. I don't know if that person... It's like they say in therapy, no one's coming to save you.

It is a great brand. It's a great brand, and there's a lot you could do with it that's different, and if you had some of the breathing room. But you got this meddlesome owner who every time he meddles, does something stupid.

He hired- Do you think he's meddlesome?

I do. I think he is. I think he He meddled in the Kamala thing. It was him. He meddled in all manner of things here. He's meddled in a lot of stuff. Let me just tell you, Jeff Bezos, let me speak to you directly. You are an astonishing entrepreneur. You did amazing things with Amazon. When you went left, when everyone went right, everyone didn't believe you. You really know how to run an e-commerce company, and you're okay at space. I think it's a little bit more of a luxury for you, but whatever, go for it. I don't care if you spend your money there, but you don't know squat about media at all. To act like you're an expert in this is really exhausting, and you're not. You suck at it, you should get out of it, and you're just not good at it. I don't know why we listened to you for five seconds on this topic. There's lots of smart people who know about this. You should put it in their hands or just sell it. Just sell it. You don't care. Buy Vogue, Jeff.

The problem is whoever buys this is inheriting an unsustainable cost structure. Yes. So it's either a prepackaged bankruptcy or you say to the current owner, you're going to have to do the hard work and clear out a lot of the costs here.

Which he may be doing.

You probably have to bolt it on to another infrastructure, whether it's Bloomberg or the NYT or the Wall Street Journal. But if a bunch of people get Jones up into raising money and finding people and try and reinvigorate the thing, you're basically going to create... It's trying to bring Frankenstein back for a second time.

Well, I would agree. There's a lot of people who contact me, and they get disappointed because they go, Well, that's not economic. We need One of the things that the reporters do is they're like, We need this for democracy. I agree with that, but you still have to run a business. I say that, I'm like, Don't make that the argument. It's, of course, the argument. It's the understanding. The press is very important for the future. It's always been. It's part of the many things that help our democracy thrive. That's not the argument. You have to create. I always say, I said it to someone, I think they were disappointed because they wanted me to be like, Let us grab Joan of Arc. I was like, It's called the news business You got to make a business out of it. You got to figure it out and get the costs in line. What I think has happened here is it's been so distant and meddlesome at the same time. Will Lewis was incompetent and meddlesome at the same time and cruel not to say anything while you did it. I mean, as you say, how you leave is how you...

How you leave is critically important. Him showing up all ragged look at the NFL parties while he was laying off people. Just not a good look. It's just not a good look. It's not respectful. These people have worked hard, a lot of them. Most of them, actually. I don't know. You're right. It has to be something fresh as I am, but to me, it's a great vehicle for somebody, including... I have some ideas, but it's a great vehicle, and it's still not a dead brand. That's my feeling.

It's not, but it certainly could. People will say that this is another example of how democracy democracy dies, that the Washington Post dies. This is the bottom line. There's a ton, and a lot of these people will end up at places. There's a ton of sharp, critical, anti-establishment new media brands, The Intercept, Democracy Now, Jacobin, Chapo Trap house, Citations Needed, Navarro Media, The Bullwork, Truanin.

A lot of them are doing original reporting, but go ahead. Yes, go ahead.

Well, that's the correct point in that there no or little economic viability in hard-hitting investigative journalism, especially at the local level. The amount of grift and corruption and name your local state capital because there aren't any reporters covering any of this shit. But the notion somehow that we're not going to have any really thoughtful, interesting, progressive media if the Washington Post goes away, no. All of those people go to smaller There are cool little media firms that are doing a great job, and quite frankly, have figured out a way to be more economically viable. The Atlantic.

Total cash flow positive, apparently.

Does The Atlantic do well? Yes.

Very smart. Nick Thompson, Lorraine is a great owner. Jeff Goldberg and stuff. They're making products people want. This is the thing. We'll just stop talking about this. Jeff, you're bad at this. Just at least have a talk with me. Just meet me. I don't like you. You don't like me. So what? Big deal. I'd love to have a talk. I know you're a smart person, but you really need to do something else and not sell it to a hedge fund or the wrong owners. Just do the right thing just for the last time, do the right thing.

I don't know. I can't handle the Atlantic. Every headline feels like it was written by someone who's disappointed in you but still wants to be invited to your wedding.

They've done some amazing reporting. It's not true. You don't read it enough.

You just read headlines. The Atlantic doesn't do hot takes. It does foreplay for a conclusion I already disagree with.

God, it does not. It's the only one that also has concerns. Sometimes, I call it bad Atlantic and good Atlantic. Sometimes they do the most irritating things that you would like it. They're contrarian.

I think the Atlantic is what happens when someone at the bar who's a woke person that's not that attractive, makes eye contact with you.

No, it's doing great. It's doing great. Anyway, let's go on a quick break, and we come back. The latest Media Merger gets Trump's seal of approval. Support for this show comes from Odoo.

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Support for this show comes from Atteo. Atteo is the AI CRM built for how modern companies work. You connect your email and calendar, and Atteo automatically build a complete picture of your customer relationships. Every company, every contact, and every interaction, all organized in one place. From there, it keeps itself up to date. Atio understands customer calls, adapts to how your business works, and uses AI to research and surface important context, so teams stay aligned without manual upkeep. If you're looking for an AI CRM that's built to grow and adapt to your business, check out Atio. You can go to attio. Com/vox, and you'll get 15% off your first year. That's attio.

Com/vox. Support for this show comes from Coreweave. Everywhere you look, AI is expanding what we thought was possible. And at the center of it all is Coreweave. Medical research and diagnosis, education, complex visual effects for movies, science and technology breakthroughs. Coreweave powers AI pioneers around the world with purpose-built tech, building what's never been built before. Coreweave is the essential cloud for AI. Ready for anything, ready for AI. To learn more about how Coreweave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweave. Com/readyforanything. Scott, we're back with more news. This is interesting speaking of media stuff. President Trump is now endorsing Next Star Media's takeover, a six billion dollar acquisition of Tegna, saying it will help knock out the fake news because there'll be more competition. These are two giant local firms. Back in November, Trump seemed to be opposed to the deal, writing on true social no expansion of the fake news networks. Now, I guess they sucked up them because of Jimmy Kimmel, everything else. Next Star owns or partners with over 200 stations. With the addition of Tegna, it would cover roughly 80% of a country. Excuse me, I would call that a monopoly.

The SEC currently prohibits companies from owning broadcast stations that reach over 39% of US as well, so that's double. So Trump obviously shifted because, I don't know, is there a donation somewhere, something else? I don't know, but it's a massive... They're allowing this merger and then opposing the Netflix one. It's so ridiculously hypocritical every time they turn around. They like one thing, but not the other. Any thoughts on this Tegna next star thing?

Yeah, but The Atlantic is like the person that ruins brunch by asking about the long term implication of eggs.

Okay, move along. They're doing great without your insults. Tell me about this one.

Every Atlantic journalist thinks that sex is a phase you'll outgrow.

Okay, let's move along. Next star, Tegna, much more significant.

You and I are both talking to Democratic Canada's President. One of the platforms I think they should adopt is Trust Busting. We need to go the other way. If you want to bring prices down, you can't have three chicken companies, you can't have three pharmaceutical companies, you can have four streaming media platforms, you can't have one search engine. You need to break all of these guys up. We need to go the other way. We need to separate the whole point. Can we talk about Ted Serandos' Congressional testimony? Because I think it's related. Sure. You had some coin-operated Republicans who are being funded by the Ellison's.

Tim Scott, particularly recently, has been on a tear.

Try to say, I'm worried about Netflix claiming that 50% of Netflix's children's programming is LGBTQ content? Yeah. And just so you know.

They never cared That's what I'm talking about. I don't think that antitrust is people.

Media companies are allowed to have a viewpoint. Yes, they are. Fox has a viewpoint. It has a bias. Cnn has a viewpoint. It has a bias. Netflix, as far as I can tell, is the most apolitical of all of them. They really don't. And the way it works in a capitalist society is the person with the biggest check shows up, and then it goes under regulatory review around whether the concentration of power will ultimately be bad for consumers. It has nothing to fucking do with how much LGBTQ content you think incorrectly has been incorporated into kids' content. To see all of a sudden these Republican lawmakers start talking about media bias and free speech, it's just insane. It's like, okay, how much money are you getting from the Ellicons who don't want to do what you do in a capitalist society and just pay more for the prize you want. So this politicization or weaponization, the Trump. Trump should have nothing to do with any of this. He should be, oh, well, as far as I understand, highest bidder wins, and I appointed the FTC and the DOJ to do a review. That's It's it.

Even the Ellison- He shifted. He shifts on everything depending on who gives him money. But that's...

Yeah. So I hope that... And by the way, I've said, and I talked to Ted Surround us over the weekend, I've said, I hope neither of them get it. I think there's too much concentration of power here. I don't think one man should control TikTok, CBS News, and CNN. I also don't think Ted should control what is, I don't want to call it the Walmart of content with Netflix and the LVMH, HBO. I'm like, Ultimately, that'll give you too much pricing power. It'll be good for shareholders. If I were on your board, I would tell you to do exactly what you're doing. But we don't need one man owning TikTok, CBS, and CNN, and we don't need one person owning HBO.

Ted is not The Ellison is our owner.

Well, one company, but they'll all be focused on... You get my meaning here.

I get it, except that The Ellicons have promised to change... Of all the people that are actually trying to change it, The Ellicons have promised Trump they'll make CNN.

Netflix is the least Political. Correct. Their bias is more subscribers and shareholder value. That's what their bias is. The Ellison seem to have more of a, quote, unquote, political- Thumb on a scale. Yeah, more of a political bias, although at some point they're going to have to be... What I don't get, you know what they've really missed? I told Ted this on Saturday. He's just not like this because he's too much of a gentleman farmer. If Netflix wanted to go gangster, they'd do the following. They'd get every single labor union in Hollywood to recognize one fact. If Netflix takes over, let's assume one of them gets it. If Netflix takes over a Time Warner, I think employment will be flat, maybe to a little bit down. If the Ellicons get this thing at the price, they're going to have to pay for it, and they're ground zero for AI, do you know what's going to happen to the employees at these companies?

Yes, I do.

Dad is going to say, All right, we've got to figure out a way to justify this cost. By the way, I am huge into compute and inference, and I'm buddies with Sam Allman. I have no love for Brian Cranston or these directors or these precious screenwriters or scriptwriters at Spongebob Squarepants. How can we use AI to take out 80 %.

That is their big calling card, even though I don't think they have any specifics.

Hey, Writers Guild, Aftra and Sag, do you realize, literally, the ass-fucking and not the good kind you are about to get if the Ellison's and AI have to justify the price that Zaslov has been able to get- By the way, Larry's numbers are off rather significantly, too.

He's lost billions and billions. He's way down. He doesn't have the extra money to spend, so they're really going to cut. They're really going to cut. Because this is a ridiculous extravagance for them. This is an extravagance. This is a yacht that they're buying. I would agree. But on that topic, the FCC under Village Idiot, Brenda Carr, as it launched a probe into The View. The FCC is investigating whether the show broke equal time rules for interviewing political candidates after the show interviewed Democratic Texas Senate candidate James Talariko. I think what The View should do is invite Brenda Carr on and have them eat him, all those ladies, because they would take him apart bit by bit. Another thing that's stupid, just stupid. What are you doing? This is not making the airwaves safer for anybody or better or more fair. This is just you playing politics for your next job, you dumbass. All right, that's all I have to say about my new car.

Your thoughts? We need an FTC and a DOJ that do their job.

This is FTC, but go ahead. Yeah.

Well, okay. Yes, all of the above. These aren't supposed to be weapons of enriching the President and his allies. This is all the same. This is all cut from the same cloth here. These are supposed to be independent agencies that think about the consumer, also think about shareholder value, also think about the health of US markets. But again, it's the boring shit nobody wants to talk about. Our markets have become way too consolidated, and the result is they have way too much... We have two good schools in every major city. We need five. They need to be competing. I just went through this early admissions bullshit. They take the admissions rate from 9% to 14%, so we all go early decisions. Do you know what that means? It means if you get in, you have to go. What do you think happens? The deal is the following. This happened with my son. You pick one school, they tempt you with a higher admissions rate. If you get in, you have to immediately withdraw all applications from every other university. What does that do? It gives you no pricing power. You can't ask for a financial aid.

You can't ask for a scholarship. So what do they get to do? They get to increase their prices faster than inflation, which education has done. By the way, the agency that provides accreditation such that you can get debt from the government, low interest debt, to pay for your student loans has not admitted almost any new universities. In every major city, there are two great schools, and that's it.

That's it. Did the Galloways just get the bill for school? Jesus Christ. I know. I'm almost done.

It's lucky I'm a rich man. I sent my son down yesterday.

I'm on my last couple of ones.

I want to give you a lesson in tuition and what it means to pay for tuition and post-tax dollars and how much this meal plan is going to cost you and just how ridiculously blessed you are. And by the way, be fucking nicer to your mother after I go through these numbers with you. It is, do you realize- The Gallowets just got the bill. When you think about the means of getting ahead and the means of establishing a family and saving, you think about education, you think about housing, What has my generation done? They have purposely created scarcity such that the houses and the degrees we already own skyrocket in value, which is absolutely fucking young people. How on earth does any middle-class family send a good but not frequentially remarkable kid to college these days. How does that happen? You know one of the reasons why these gambling sites are booming and gaming is booming? Because if you're not saving for a house, you're more inclined to buy crypto or do stupid shit with your money, and you're less inclined to stay in a relationship or taking a risk on a relationship because you're not saving for a house or building anything.

Yes, indeed. I did do a 529 many years ago for the boys, and I was very aggressive, and I was glad I was. The stock market did well and was able to pay for their college using that. But I have to say it's not. I know sometimes those 529 29. It's not the way to go, but that's what I did, and it worked out for me.

But God, it was cool. I got the tuition. Like I said to my son, I'm like, This is a state school? Yes, exactly. Wait, hold on. What's going on here? This is a state school?

I know. You haven't even gotten food and living. Oh, my God. I know. Welcome. You know what? I'm going to go down there with you when you go visit him.

Oh, we're going to have so much fun.

We're going to have so much fun.

We're going to go to the UVA Cal game. It's going to be amazing.

I'm coming down there. I love UVA.

Oh, it's going to be a ton of fun. He's already told me. I told I got him last night, I'm coming down for the UVA Cal game. You know what he said? I'm like, Oh, that's going to be funny. He's like, I don't know if I can get you tickets to the football game. I don't know how it works. It doesn't matter.

We just want to come down. We're going to ride horses.

Something tells me I'm going to figure out a way to get my own ticket. He's already making excuses. He's already envisioning me embarrassing him in front of his friends. He's already trying to discourage me from coming to a football game in fall. Anyways, we're going down.

All right, we're going. Scott and I are riding our horses down there. All right, one more quick break. We'll be back for Wins and Fails. Hi, everyone. This week on On with Kare Swischer, I'm joined by the iconic actor and activist Jane Fonda. You've heard of her. Jane and I talked about her roots as an activist dating back to the 1970s when she was protesting the Vietnam Roar to her ongoing fight for climate, free speech, and ultimately, our democracy. Here's a taste of what she had to say. Hope is very different than optimism. Optimism is everything's going to be fine, and you don't do anything about it.

Hope is a muscle.

Hope is when you fight. Hope can be rage-filled, breaking down the door with a battering ram. This is a wonderful conversation. I am privileged to be able to talk to people like this. Jane Fonda is the bomb. She just is. She's always been that way. She remains that way. She will go down in history as that. You can listen wherever you get your podcast and search for us two on YouTube, and be sure to follow on with Kara Swischer for more.

Last month, Nora Maby, a reporter in Montana, was looking around on Facebook for story ideas.

In Montana, particularly in rural areas, Facebook is where a lot of news is shared. And a post from the local sheriff caught her eye. He said that border patrol agents had rocked up outside of business in the very small town of Freud, Montana, to take someone in, and that he, the sheriff, was trying to assist them. But then at the end of his post, he added this. It's important to note that this man was not a threat, not a danger to his community, has no criminal history, and has been a great member of this community. Which I just haven't seen a statement like that from law enforcement, particularly in a really conservative area that typically has a lot of support for all types of law enforcement, Border Patrol included. Coming up on Today Explained, the story of Freud, Montana, a town where most people voted for President Trump, and how residents reacted when reality hit home. Today Explained drops every weekday. Megan Rapinoe here. This week on a Touch more, the one and only Flage Johnson joins us to talk about leveling up for the WMBA, managing NIL money, and how she's nurturing her music career.

We're also taking a closer look at why participation in girls' sports is declining. Surprising, we know. And we're giving some love to Valentine's Day and what it's like dating a pro athlete, and who's the best athlete couple of all time. Check out the latest episode of A Touch More, wherever you get your podcast and on YouTube. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I think I'll go first. My fail. As always, Elon seems to be abandoning his plans to go to Mars. He posted over the weekend that SpaceX has shifted his priorities to to build a self-growing city on the moon in order to get to Mars so that we can save the human race. This guy changes his tune so much. It's just like, oh, my God, when are you going to stop believing this nonsense? He's done an amazing He's doing a amazing job with the things he's had here on Earth, but not compared to the lies he tells about what he's going to be doing in the future. But he's going to the moon, folks. So that's what he's doing. Again, sounds good. He should go. I think it's a great idea.

More Elon off the planet, the better. Sounds great. My win is I got Scott Galloway to watch Heated Rivalry. How did you like it, Scott?

I did it on edibles when I was jet lagged, and I am rethinking everything, Cara. I'm absolutely rethinking everything. I thought it was wonderful. It's just really well done. I think it's important. I think young people need to have more sex.

There's a lot of sex in it.

Oh, my God. Crazy sex. I know.

Well, sex is their way to get to intimacy. You do see that, right? That's how they move.

Well, dudes use sex for intimacy. Women use intimacy. No, wait. Women use sex for intimacy. Men use intimacy. I think this stuff is important. I did some of it shock me, and I immediately had to go to that lesbian series just to get my mojo back. Yeah, a little bit.

I'll tell you, it was interesting. I interviewed the creators You should go listen to- I saw that.

They're Canadian, right?

The Canadians, yeah.

I want to do an erotic drama about the behind the scenes going on of the world's best badmitten team.

That's what everyone's saying. They're like, What about rugby? What about this? Can I make one other observation? I think one of the things about it, and then you can get your win and fail, is that there was one of the things they said in the interview, and I think there was this whole incredible market of people who like this particular book series. It's a romance novel for women, right? This is a straight women-oriented romance novel that was hugely popular. One thing, they were like, How could it miss when it had such a massive market of fans? People ignore these markets. That's one of the reasons. It's already caught on with everybody else. But the initial strength of it was for this romance novel market that all these guys that are green-lighting things did not understand. I thought that was a real win for smart creators who understand where their fan base is in market. I talked a lot about the business of heated rivalry with these guys. I thought that was... It's just a real win on a business point of view, too.

I come back to when I was thinking about a heated rivalry because everyone's asking me, What do you think about a heated rivalry? I think a decent place to start an entire political platform or guidance for a political system, an economic system. It sounds corny. It's love. That is, all right, if people can't make enough money in a low-employment economy such that they're so stressed out, they can't raise their kids well, that economic policy is getting in the way of love, and we need to revisit it. If the divorce rates are skyrocketing because of economic anxiety and because 40% of households have medical debt, that's getting in the way of love, we need to stop it. If any discrimination is stopping people from loving each other, committing to each other, and I think marriage is a good thing because it stops you from exiting relationships just because they both have outdoor plumbing, that's getting in the way of love. I think you could reduce. I think the whole idea of a prosperous nation, we tend to think it's the S&P. It's not. It's someone's ability to find someone else and to share their life with them and notice each other's life.

That's why I think the sex recession among young people is absolutely terrible. I also think about all the men I grew up with who basically imposed, society imposed on them a set of rules and standards that said you're not supposed to be in love because your inclinations towards love are perverted according to our laws. But I think you could literally start from the notion of love or connecting with someone economically, spiritually, psychologically, financially, and reverse engineer into what makes good public policy.

Anyway. There you go. Love, sweet love. That's what Bad Bunny said.

That's my platform. Love.

That was what he said. Love. Okay, so wins and lost?

Okay, wins and fails. Okay, so my win, I'm trying to bring attention to some younger creators who I just think are outstanding, and I consistently find myself on this one creators. I brought up Kyla Scanland, this young, got to be 26, female economist, so I keep bringing on Prop G. But recently, I find myself just absolutely obsessed with this guy on TikTok named Gio Hussar. He talks about economics and geopolitics, and he'll go deep into the weapon systems of Ukraine versus Russia. While the oil infrastructure for Russia is collapsing, he'll talk about the Fed and interest rates. This guy is just so... It's like the eighth-grade kid who was introverted and good at math, and he's found TikTok, and he's just fucking fascinating. You can tell he just does the work. So much of my thought leadership or my views on economics and geopolitics are informed by this guy's amazing work. People are consistently asking me, What are my sources of information? I got a lot from social media This one guy on TikTok, Giohusar, for geopolitics and economics, is a gift. It's also, to be clear, a real endorsement of these platforms. He's not Dan Rather or he doesn't have...

He's not Brian Williams. He doesn't have that polish. He just does the math, and he's unafraid. Anyway, my win is Gio Hussar. He's fantastic. Check out his content. My loss is the following. I fairly get criticism for too easily comparing the Nazis to the Trump administration. What I do think is fair, though, is looking at late-stage Weimar Republic and what was going on then in the Trump administration. Some of the things we share were a secret police loyal to one man, not to an institution, a collapse in the cultural and economic standing of middle-class men. Back then, it was about industrialization and automation. Now, I would say it's about AI. This notion that the enemy wasn't abroad, but it was the enemy within. The fact that we started shipping people to different sites outside of the country where they had some legal protection. What we also had in the '30s was a lot of the people in power very purposely started comparing undesirables or their enemies, whether it was gypsies or socialists or trade unionists or Jews. They started comparing them purposely to animals. When I saw the President this week, compare the Obamas, President Obama First Lady Obama, to animals, to apes.

We have seen this before. When you normalize the dehumanization of people based on their ethnicity or on their beliefs or on their religion, You have to shut that shit down right away. The notion that, Oh, he didn't see it, or you can't take him literally. Well, okay. The 60 million people who died in World War II would like a word. When the President of the United States is referring to past presidents and people who have been an absolute blessing to this society, when he starts comparing them to animals, we are '30s Germany. It has never been accepted before in our society. We have never normalized it. We have never allowed it. This individual is talking about, he's referred to as political enemies, as vermin, as animals. So all The notion that more Republicans have not stepped up and said, We just can't have this. We cannot go back. We cannot be like Weimar Germany. We can't have democratically elected leaders referring to their political enemies as animals. My fail is that so many people seem to be making excuses for it and not checking back on it. This is a different level of danger when we start convincing people, and we need Republicans here.

Democrats will always find reasons for why everything Trump does is wrong. If at some point, Republicans, John Thune, who I think is a good man, if he doesn't stand up and say, You can't equate our political enemies with animals.

Well, they only do that like Tom Tillis when they're not running again. Then they get, then they go.

Then they find their balls. Yeah. Anyways, my win is the geo hussar. My loss is the normalization of referring to people as animals, it leads to very dark places.

Yeah, I think your comparison is just fine. But anyway, before we go, listen up. If you have a juicy situation you'd like our advice on, call us at 855-515-pivot. Think work, dating, family, finance, make it juicy people. This is not career advice ask. This is I want to date my coworker, or I made a huge financial decision, I regret type ask. We want something a little more personal. We can't wait to hear from you on that. And elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, for the latest episode of On, I spoke with a longtime defense attorney, Abby Lowell, who is representing some of the most high-profile targets of the Trump administration right now. People like New York attorney general, LaTisha James, Federal Reserve governor Lisa Cook, and independent journalist, Don Lemon. This is very much to Scott's last point. Let's listen to a clip.

I don't know that I thought that them going after Don Lemon was their highest priority.

I should have known better.

Because what we know about this administration is they're very good basically saying, If this is my right-hand, pay attention to it while I do something with my left. They are the administration of distraction.

Okay, that's absolutely true. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pippin. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out.

Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoy Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Unertot, engineer of this episode. Rich Shibly edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Ms. Severo and Dan Chalan. Nishad Kharo, is Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine, nymag. Com/pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Support for this show comes from Tasty Trade. There's two types of traders out there, the ones who settle for the status quo and the ones who push the envelope. Tasty Trade is the platform of choice for the latter. With Tasty Trade, you can trade stocks, options, futures, and more all in one platform. It offers low commissions, so you can keep more of what you earn.

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