Transcript of AI Faceoffs at the Super Bowl, Bob Iger's Heir Apparent, and WaPo's Brutal Cuts

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Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York magazine and the Box Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swischer.

And I'm Scott Galloway.

And what the fuck is going on behind you, Scott? There's like Scott, Scott, also Scott. To explain for listeners, Scott has a new background in his studio, and guess what? I'm not in it.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Oh, this. Oh, Look, it's Ed. The metaphor I would use is that you're my first wife, and these are Bella Russian hookers who I have.

What is happening?

Do you want the honest truth, or am I supposed to be snarky around this?

Whatever. Either one. It's probably a bad explanation.

No, I'm We're very focused on enterprise value, and Vox owns a piece of pivot.

No, we do, but go ahead.

Well, we own it, but Vox... The thing I hate about the corporate structure and ownership of pivot is that everyone has veto authority, but no one has control. I like having control. As you know, about five years ago, I started launching my own pods. Quite frankly, your pivot has the biggest reach.

My pivot Now it's my pivot. It's like our children, your children.

Go ahead. But I'm very focused on trying to create distinct enterprise value that I have control over. Pivot is the biggest and the best in your first born, and I love it and I'm fond of you. But in terms of trying to build enterprise value, I'm focused on the prof Gpods because I control it. Let me tell you, you're the same way. You have on with Kara Switzer.

I just have on, that's all. But go ahead.

Well, but control is an addictive It is. I like making decisions. Quite frankly, we make a lot of money from pivot, but it's very difficult to figure out a path to enterprise value because Vox controls or semi-controls the IP. I'm just very honestly, very focused on building enterprise value around the plethora of podcasts we are developing here at Prop G.

Yes, but let me make an argument. They don't actually control it. We mostly do whatever we want. You know that. It's me you're talking about.

Or it's going to be very difficult for us to sell Pivot for a shit ton of money, and that's the business that I'm in.

Well, in a couple of years, we can certainly, correct?

Yeah, I guess in terms of agreement or the IP turns back to us.

It's just me that's your problem.

No, I like working with partners. I've always had partners in my business. I think that when I advise young entrepreneurs, I'm being serious, do it with a partner because I think the most rewarding thing in life is to raise kids with a confident person that you love and also to build economic security with someone you care about. I think that is really rewarding. I also think it's much more rewarding to build businesses with someone else. I think one of the most rewarding things about Pivot is you and I built it together and occasionally we get on the phone and we just bask in our success, and it's really fun. The way I describe it is, inevitably, when I travel, because I'm usually on a corporation's time, I stay at these amazing places. Inevitably, when I'm alone, I get upgraded to literally the presidential suite at the George Sank in Paris. But if you're in it alone, it's like it didn't happen. It just doesn't mean anything. I do think building businesses, I've always had partners. My partner at PropG Media is Katherine Dylan, who I've worked with for 15 years. My partner at Pivot is you and to a lesser extension, Bankoff.

But yeah, the most rewarding thing is building something with a partner. But with respect to the pictures behind me, I want to set Prop G up in a corporate structure position such that I can sell it for a shit ton of money to an old media company that's panicking that they're not in the fastest, growing-out, supported medium. Is that too much information?

Then what are you going to do with your first marriage Pivot that got you all that?

That got you. I'm still here.

I'm here on- That made you attractive to Russian whores.

I take you to the Olive Garden every Thursday night. When we get drunk at a convention, we might have some bad sex. But I'm still here. I'm still here. I'm hanging around until the kids go to college, until Taylor and Zoe go off to college. I got to be honest, Cara, at this point in my life, it's like this resistance subscribe. A lot of people reached out to me and said, Why didn't you organize with these people are like, the idea- Yes, I heard that.

I've gotten a lot of calls from people saying that.

The idea of getting a bunch of activists and liberal media figures on the phone and trying to get consensus, it sounds like my worst fucking nightmare.

Yeah, I got that from a dozen people. Who was the last one? Katie Kirk? Katie Kirk, I think.

Katie reached out to me. To be honest, they're right. But my view is, I'm a ready, Fire, Am guy. I'm going to do what I can do. I've got a ton of momentum. That's what I said. I've got a ton of momentum. Then you do your thing and I'll support you. But the idea of getting on the phone with all of these people to decide whether Netflix should be on the list or not, that's just not my style.

I know that. I know it. Everyone was like, Why do you do that? I'm like, Because he doesn't like you. I don't know. He just wants to sit in a room with you.

No, it's not that I don't like these people. It's like, I would rather take a leadership. No business I have ever started made any sense.

Yeah.

And not only that- You want to do your own thing? This goes to a deeper spiritual thing. One of the things I don't like about getting older, I used to be more fearless when I was younger. I used to call people I wanted to meet, and I used to approach people. I used to go to crash parties I wasn't invited to. And now I'm just recently heckling from the cheap seats. I have very strong opinions about everything, but I'm doing less. I want to move back to taking risks and actually doing shit and risking public failure, because I think that has been... Other than being born a white, heterosexual male in the '60s and the irrational passion for my well-being of my mother, the reason I am somewhat successful is I've never been afraid of public failure. I've gotten more afraid as I've gotten older. I want to get in the game. I want to get back on the field.

Yeah, you got to get back. Yeah, it's okay. You can leave me. You'll see what happens when you leave me. Anyway, I don't really care. I have other things I can I'm leaving you.

I still return your angry text messages at 2: 00 AM.

No, guess who called me the other night? You because you wanted to chitty chat with your favorite person on the planet.

But let me just say- I had an edible and I was bored. No one else would talk to me. I had to call someone in Eastern Standard Time because everyone else is asleep.

No, but we've been sharing, you've been sharing, speaking of looking ridiculous, why were you in a fur coat looking like an unsuccessful pimp for your resistant unsubscribed? That made me laugh my ass off, I have to say, with a hat. Tell me where are you right now? Give me a quick update, and then we've got a lot to talk about today.

I think the truth has a nice ring to it. Out of the gates, it was bigger than I expected. I got to about 100,000, 150,000 uniques a day. It It's leveled off and it's not growing. I'm not hearing from as many CEOs. I've been doing some research around how do you sustain a movement like this. One of them was- Join with people. They'll hold this great in the sum of its parts. I will take I'm like, Oh, is this island on my own. I'm like one of those Japanese soldiers in the hills of the Philippines 20 years after the war has ended, terrorizing everybody. No, but there was a study done out of Kellogg, and it found that it's actually not economic damage, it's public shame being vis-a-vis the media. It's media attention. I've been going on CNN once or twice a day. I was on MSN Now. I've been on NPR. I'm about to go on. You need to go on Fox. Yeah, I'm probably going to go on Fox. I'm like you. This is going to sound arrogant, but it's true. I can get on any network any day of the week. I get it.

What's interesting, though, is when I do, and I'll come back to the... When I do these crazy, unchained, weird, he's definitely not running for President now videos, They get about five or 600,000 to a million views. When I go on CNN primetime, I get three to 400,000. The power of social is so powerful. What I find about social is it's a chance to be your spirit animal. People love that. I went up to my partner's closet. I grabbed a fur coat and a ridiculous hat because I was going to talk about a lamb man. That's your hat.

Stop pretending. It's your hat. What's that? It's your hat and coat. But go ahead.

Well, I like to spend $1,600 for Kim Osabe in Aspen for a hat that I look like Billy the Special Child, who's the latest winner of the Make A Wish Foundation in El Paso, Texas. You look so ridiculous. I look totally fucking ridiculous.

Fucking ridiculous. Anyway, where are we going? Very briefly, resisted unsubscribed. We have a lot to talk about today.

There's so much going. A lot of the organizations that do actually organize, Defiance and Indivisible, I'm coordinating with now. I'm trying to reignite the momentum, and I'm going on a bunch of public media. Granted, I hear from people who are supportive, but I'm hearing from high school kids saying, I'm trying to get my entire senior to unsubscribe from Spotify. Will you do a Zoom? I hate to admit it, but I'm trying to... The worst thing, what's even worse than fighting with your allies is fighting without them. I'm trying to do a better job of reaching out, which I hate.

I know, but you're going to have to, sweetie. You got to. It takes a village.

It's leveled out, and I need to reestablish some momentum.

It's a good idea. People got excited about your good idea, right? We'll talk about the Washington Post later because I've gotten 900 calls about that.

People are back to- Well, the Washington Post and journalists are just so fucking precious.

You guys should have discussed over it. We're not precious. Scott, I need you to stop. 300 people are back yesterday. Trigger. You literally, 300 people are back. I'm going to slap you back to last Sunday. But first, let's first stop. We'll get to the Washington Post, and you better collect yourself because I'll slap you. I will. I'll slap you back to last Sunday.

That's the dynamic here. I say something stupid, and then you say... And then you come in with your warriors of wokeness, and everyone's like, I love Cara. I'm on Cara's side.

I love Cara. It's not warriors of wokeness. 300 people lost their jobs. You could have a little empathy. Anyway.

20,000 people lost their jobs at UPS, Cara.

Well, so what? You know what? We go with the Washington Post, a debt of gratitude for the stuff they did for many, many years.

It's people whose parents put them through Sarah Lawrence, and they're more precious than everybody else. We talk about them.

They're not more precious. It's still important. It doesn't matter. You don't have to stack rank people in misery. I can't wait.

Come on. That's not true. I'm not doing that. But we should talk about it because I do have some thoughts on it, and I know you have some thoughts on it. We will.

We're going to get to it. But first, we're going to talk about Anthropic, something really fun. It's taking aim at OpenAI and ChatGPT with a series of Super Bowl ads, Poking Fun. It is the perfect satire. At recent news, that ads are coming to ChatGPT. I want to play one of the Anthropic ads, all of which. There's four of them, I think, that feature a young man visiting a therapist to talk about his mom. Let's watch.

How do I communicate better with my mom?

Great question. Improved communication with your mom can bring you closer. Here are some techniques makes you can try.

Start by listening. Really hear what she's trying to say underneath her words.

Build conversation from points of agreement. Find a connection through shared activity. Perhaps a nature walk. Or if the relationship can't be fixed, find emotional connection with other older women on Golden Encounters, the mature dating site that connects sensitive cubs with roaring cougars. What? The tagline appears on the screen at the end. It says, Ads are coming to AI, but not to Claude. They've struck a nerve with Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI. Sam Postal, the ads made him laugh and then went on to share a novelocized rant, as TechCrunch put it. He argued the campaign was dishonest and misrepresented how ChatGPT would ever use ads. Oh, my God. Fuck him if he can't take a joke. I think these ads are brilliant. The way they depict chat bots is perfect. That pause, the smile, the lowest common denominator advice. But these are great branding, as you told me. Tell me, as a Mr. Brands, what do you think about these?

This is genius, and this will be seen as the pivotal moment for when in 12 months, Anthropic is more valuable than OpenAI. This is a definition of Intelligent branding. One construct or vehicle for great branding is you ladder the competition. Is that a competition? Well, the way you ladder the competition to try and zero in on the soft tissue is you go, We're this, they're this, and then you say, Okay, is this point of differentiation truly different? Are we really different this way? Two, does anyone care? Is it relevant? Three, can we own it? Is it sustainable? In this instance, they said, All right, we're not going to have ads. Is that different? Yes, ChatGPT is having ads. That's truly differentiated. Is it relevant? Yeah, it is relevant because you're providing your most intimate information. There's a memory around AI, and the idea that it's not giving you the best answer, but an answer it can monetize is really uncomfortable for people. Then is it sustainable? Mostly unless OpenAI, which is a On zero chance, they might backtrack on this, but basically this is the perfect branding. It's differentiated, it's relevant to consumers, and it's sustainable, and the execution here is just gorgeous.

It's just beautiful. This, occasionally, When Hyundai came out with their seven-year warranty ad, that changed the complexion of Hyundai. Occasionally, there's an ad campaign that literally changes everything. They're fewer and fewer because people don't take advertising as seriously. They take real-time innovation more seriously. This already is the out of the Super Bowl. This is going to be the moment when Sam Altman, quite frankly, shit the bed, and Dario became the new face of AI. But I believe this will be the pivotal moment with also a focus on enterprise versus the consumer. They're going Dell versus gateway going consumer, or they're going enterprise versus consumer.

This is a consumer play because it's all about people asking advice from these things. Let me tell you, one of the things that really struck me, and I I don't know how you felt about it, was the tone of voice of these. One is better than that. I just saw another one, and it was perfect. The execution is fantastic. It was a woman talking to another in her business plan and was offering her whatever, a web space thing. But the voices and the lack of emotion and the lack of empathy in their voices, and yet the robotic nature of people. This is what AI sounds like to people.

The shift in the tone. It goes from human to anodyne. Exactly. It is genius, actually.

The thing about- And pause it. The pause until they answer. Because no one would do that. Everybody jumps when they talk, they have a normal interaction. But the pause is what got me. It was perfect.

It's not worth it. Well, the Super Bowl is basically the ads aren't worth it. Whatever they're charging, 8 million for a 30 second, it's not worth it. The only way it's worth it, and you know if the ad was worth it before the ad ever airs, and then it's how much play is it getting on YouTube. All Already, Anthropic's ads are worth more than their spending because everybody's talking about it's buzz. Ben Stiller's ad for Instacart is going to be the silver medalist here. It's fucking hilarious. It is.

It's with, what's his name?

Benson Boom. Yeah, he does the lips and everything. But basically- Don't do the flip. This has nothing to do with the ad on the Super Bowl. It's about your permission to be evaluated and go viral because you're advertising at the Super Bowl. And already, Anthropic has gotten a huge Huge return. And also, if you'll notice, Sam Altman is sounding very defensive.

Oh, my God. I laughed, but he should have said nothing or said that was funny. Those were the only two answers, right?

But this was a pivotal turning moment. What do you think?

I thought I just loved it. I thought it was perfect. It also was... It really put a finger on what people don't like about AI. It really did. Yeah, they're such like, eeu. It's not a person. It was actually in their brand of we're not those guys. It didn't say what they were, but it said what they weren't. I think that and what they aren't is something that's very unattractive to people. What they are is attractive. It's like, I want to use this AI, but I don't want that. That's what I thought was effective there. Anyway, good job, Claude and Anthropic. It really is. Sam really should have just said that was really funny. Loved it.

What's more uncomfortable about this is the following. The number one use case, do you know what it is? Therapy. Imagine you're giving someone the most intimate details about your life, and then the AI decides where to insert an ad. I'm getting served all of these ring light therapists that are, quote, unquote, mental health professionals telling everyone, you don't need a job, you don't need a relationship, you need to work on yourself first. Yeah, that's helpful. Anyways, they imagine... I heard one of these ring light therapists recommending a dating site, and I thought, is this person being compensated by this dating site? Imagine sitting down and talking to a therapist and giving them your most intimate details, and they say, Oh, you should absolutely go on Lexapro. And by the way, I'm sponsored by Eli Lilly or whatever.

Well, although doctors are, aren't they? I mean, that's his tale as old as time.

Anyway- People People are using AI as a more trusted doctor than their doctor. It is. People are going to AI.

Doctors get all those gimmies from pharmacy people.

And by the way, that's been seriously pulled back and regulated as it should. I used to get invited to these dinners to speak about... Back when I was running a brand strategy, I was going to get invited to these dinners with neurosurgeons sponsored by Sandoz or whatever. They pulled back on that a lot because they realized... But if you're giving AI the most intimate... If you're saying to AI, Okay, I have prostate cancer, my Gleason scores are this, and I don't know whether I should have my prostate removed or if I should just continue therapy, low fat diet, the idea that the AI might be trying to figure out what ad to insert at that moment?

Yeah, it has a very Facebooky feel to it. I'll tell you that.

With Google, you expect it. With Facebook, you expect it. But right now everyone's under the impression that the AI is their friend and trying to help them.

Absolutely. All right, moving from that, let's run through a rapid fire update on all the Epstein news that's happened since we talked. I mean, seriously, this is just first let's listen to what President Trump had to say to CNN's Caitlin Collins when asked about Epstein's victims. This was something else. Then JD Vance followed up with a really even worse version of it. But let's listen.

What did you say? What did you say to the survivors who feel like they haven't gotten justice?

You are the worst reporter.

No wonder. Cnn has no ratings because of people like you. You She's a young woman. I don't think I've ever seen you smile. I've known you for 10 years. I don't think I've ever seen a smile on your face. Well, I'm asking you about survivors of Jeffrey Epstein, Mr. President. Because you know you're not telling the truth.

That was something. Let me say, I think the reason she got under her skin is because what she was talking about was the survivors of Donald Trump.

You know what I mean? You mean that he's mentioned 5,700 times in the Upstein?

Yes, exactly. I think he knows deep in his incredibly narcissistic denial personality, he knows, right? He knows what happened. These people know what happened. It's typical old man says, I've never seen you smile. I've had women have that happen to them all the time.

Yeah, smile, sweetheart.

Yeah, you should smile more. You should put Kera Swischer on the back of your thing and say, Thank you. But that was really something. Then what was incredible is that JD has followed it in a really ridiculous interview with Megan Kelly, in which he said, Well, he just wants her to have fun. Oh, my God. He's the cringiest cringe of He just takes something that's bad and makes it worse, which is really hard to do in this situation.

I see. It's funny. I had a different reaction there. I expected it from Jeff. What I thought was especially heinous was Megan Kelly defending. The President referenced her menstrual cycle. There's got to be a line where as someone has a certain level, and I go back, not just me. Everyone should have a code in lines. The key isn't to be likable. Everyone deserves boundaries in a relationship and boundaries around the behavior they accept and not accept. When the President insulted the looks of Senator Cruz's wife, that should have been a red line, and it should be like, I'm never supporting you ever again. When the President referenced Megan Kelly's menstrual cycle, that should have been a line where she would, I would think for the rest of her career, go, This guy has a problem when it comes to women. I was texting this morning with Molly Jongfast. The thing I've been trying to wrap my hands around, I want to get your viewpoint here around the Epstein files. The problem is, or I see the biggest problem, is that what we need is a thick layer of an institution that we trust, and that used to be the Department of Justice, to go through in the FBI these 3 million pages and say, Okay, our job is to use discretion in the rule of law to parse what is a legal criminal behavior that deserves public attention and what does not deserve public attention, like being on an invite list to a party in St.

Bart's that Jeffrey Epstein was going to... Because right now, we're overpunishing shit that is trivial and superfluous, and we're under punishing child rape. Everything has been mushed together. Because we don't trust an institution to go through this and say, This is criminal activity and warrants public scrutiny and legal scrutiny. Quite frankly, folks, we're not even going to release this shit because all it does is impugn people for no reason. But the problem is there's no arbiter, there's no institution that traditionally we've had trust in that we're comfortable with doing it. So everyone's like, release the files. They release all 3 million. I don't even know if this is helping right now.

No, there's more. They've released half. They've released half. They're not going to release it. What are your thoughts? He's a pig. I'm sorry. He's just an old man pig, and JD Vance made it worse. And Megan Kelly, forget it. She's a bluffer to all of them, and she's going to put this on her show. So, hey, Megan, good to give you content. You'll attack me and not Scott, who's appropriately critical of you, but that's fine. Whatever you want, girl.

I've been on Megan's Have you been on her show? No, of course not.

Why would I soil myself?

I don't get it, though. I think she's very talented.

She has turned into something else. Scott, you're not paying attention.

No, don't interrupt my sentence to score points with your Woke warrior. Stop with it.

What is with you with the Woke warrior? Did something happen to you?

What I was going to say, let me finish, is that I register that she, like Candice Owens, has literally gone off the fucking deep end. I can't figure out if it's because the algorithms love rage bait, so they get more money every time they something in Cendieari, or they have literally gone insane. They haven't taken a red pill. They've swallowed a red cyanide pill. But I would argue over the last few years, Megan has gone very, very conspiracy theory and has decided, the more insane incendiary shit I say, is it that she's making money or has she seriously lost her shit?

Yeah, I don't know. Honestly, I don't care. She's just one of those people I've decided to put in the trash bin of my whatever. She can say whatever she wants about me. If I provide good content to her, knock yourself out, girl. Anyway, next up, Bill and Hillary Clinton have agreed to be deposed on camera at public hearings in the Epstein investigation. When I Roe, Connie, he said, They absolutely should. I agree. So should President Trump. They should also bring him in. They should bring all these people in. But they're having them. Hillary this morning was like, Bring it on. I'm a little scared for the Republicans, honestly. She wants cameras there. She's like, so obviously, she's got something off her sleeve. I think this woman has run out of fucks after being like, whacked her. I mean, some of it is her fault, but boy, have they just... She's loaded for bear, I would say, is my feeling. They could throw them... She's going to talk about Trump the whole time. That's what she's going to do.

Going back to my brand strategy course, I do people as brands, and I look at them as brands and break down their core attributes. I did the Clintons, and I did Bill and Hillary, and they both, especially Bill, but their brand attributes that are so powerful. First off, Bill has Oprah-like empathy. I generally get the sense. When I met Bill Clinton, I thought, This guy cares about me. I'm going to support him the rest of my life. You get the sense he genuinely cares. It comes across as so genuine. It's hard to believe it's not genuine. Anyways, the second thing is, you would never want the Clintons on the other side of anything you're doing. These people are ruthless I don't care if you're picking players for a softball team. If these people had no athletic ability, I would still want them on my team because they would figure out a way to kneecap the second basement.

I think she's good. I think she's good.

I can't wait for this. If I were the Trump administration, the last fucking thing I would want is cameras on a very well-prepared, 155 fucking IQ, Secretary Clinton.

Because she is- Did you see Trump said, I like Bill Clinton?

Like he was- All of a sudden, he's trying to be like, They're pretty good people.

Then they shouldn't have to undergo this.

I'm sorry. Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton are testifying. Could the Trump administration Be any stupider. Be more stupid. You're going to have a bunch of... Trust me, there's going to be three or four moments- They're never going to end. Where some idiot staffer has given a bigger idiot Republican a stupid question. You are going to see One of the Clintons slap them back so silly. I can't. I literally can't. I'm not going to watch this. This is my Super Bowl. I can't wait for this. Only person I've ever knocked on doors for.

Anyway, let's get through the last two. Melinda Rich Gates, another smart cokey, said, Reference this to your ex-husband and filled her with unbelievable sadness that he, along with others, needed to answer the question that remained. Gates himself apologized yet again. But I thought Melinda Gates handled herself with so much class given she keeps getting asked about her the behavior of her ex-husband. I would hate that. I would hate that. I thought she handled it well. Let me add into that. You can pick either one. Cbs is pulling a 60 Minute segment with Longevity guru Peter Atia. But the Network's news editor, Sheep Barry Weis, is reporting refusing to fire him and contribute. I'll weigh in very quickly here. I've heard from a lot of Airmont people. They really want him gone, and they should because you can easily replace him with someone like Scott Galloway, for example, who knows all about that. Scott could actually do a good job.

You're the longevity person now.

Yeah, I'm the longevity person. I'm using it for marketing. I'm like, great, keep this Epstein soiled person who already a lot of people think is a bit of a grifter on there. Plus, she's added Andrew Hooperman. I know you like him, and Mark Hyman, who is really... I'm sorry, it's just codswallup a lot of the stuff he blah, blahs about. Anyway, either one, Melinda or?

Okay. I think Melinda French Gates, joins a crew of women, and this is sexist, who seem to have a different approach to how they equip themselves when they become billionaires. And that is, they're more focused on philanthropy, they demonstrate grace, they demonstrate empathy, focused on their kids. They have just... I mean, I've told you this, one of my personal heroes is Mackenzie Scott. The approach she takes to her life in giving versus the other half of the marriage, it's just there's There's something about the female brain, and this is sexist because I'm distinguishing between the sexist. It's actually true. By the way, let me be clear. Let me piss off women. I think men, oftentimes the male brain because of testosterone and more risk aggressiveness, sometimes, more than often, I think outstanding entrepreneurs, and I think that male aggression has put us on the moon and discovered vaccines. Let me give some credit that is also disparaging or people are going to take it as a hate crime against women. When they become billionaires, it appears that the female brain is much more about, how do I help others versus how can I have the most fucking fabulous life in Aspen.

There does seem to be a real distinct difference between these divorces and how The female side of the equation acquits themselves versus the male equation.

I would say, Serguey Brenn and Anne Wojcicki is another example of that.

They're everywhere. Look at these examples everywhere.

She got dragged to Epstein Island by him, too.

Look at all these examples everywhere. Then also, though, and I think we're going to disagree on this, but I'm wondering. I think Dr. Peter Atia is a fucking distraction here. Let his colleagues, let his podcast listeners, let his podcast network, as far as I can tell, he did not commit a crime. He just comes across as a creep. No, of course not. Hold on. We don't think that. Hold on. There is credible evidence that the President of the United States, who has been mentioned 5,700 times, may have engaged in child rape. I could give a flying fuck about a longevity doctor and the creepy emails he sent. This is about criminal activity amongst our cabinet and our President, not creepy emails from a wellness doctor.

I get your point. I I'm going to say yes. But do we have, again, as I said before, do we have to stack rank these things? I mean, you can say, and I agree with you, I repeat it.

One's about indictments, the other is about who cares.

We should be focused on criminally indicting the people who have abused young women, or young women, not women, young girls. Girls. Children. Let's just go right to children. I'm not even speaking of Meg and Kelly trying to figure out which age is okay. None of them.

The 15-year-old, they're 15, they look like they're 18, so it's okay.

They're wearing extensions. Oh, my God. I agree with you on that. That said, it's okay to say, eeu, to Howard Ludnik, yuck, what a liar, about his his affiliations would think. It's okay to say, wow, Peter Adia, what a creepy dude. It's okay to do that also. That's all. I just don't think you have to- There should be a DOJ releasing to the public information into grand juries, get on diamonds on criminal behavior.

Quite frankly, they should not be releasing. Kevin Marsh or whatever his name is, it comes out. He's in the Epstein files because he was on an invite list. Yes. If we had institutions we could still trust that aren't perverted by the president's total overrun of a co-equal branch of government, you could have an FBI and a DOJ that would say, Here's the information we're releasing because it's pertinent, and Here's the information we're not releasing because all it does is create distraction and dilution of the real criminals here.

But the guy who was head of Paul Weiss, who acquiesced very early to the terms, he had to step down because of his... I mean, I'm just saying there are devils. I agree with you. I think we are actually agreed on this. But I just would note that Peter Artier wrote, The worst thing about being friends with Epstein was that he couldn't tell a soul about the financier's outrageous life. I wouldn't want to work with this fucker.

If AI went through every email you sent, could they find shit that makes you look really bad?

Not like this. No, not even close. No, no. No. No. And not you either, by the way, FYI.

I don't think so either.

Come on. It's mostly you yelling at me. Really, that's what happens, people.

Anyway. Oh, yeah. Me yelling at you. I think you got your pronouns off there, whatever we're calling me yelling at you.

You put whatever picture you want on the back.

Who text the other at 2: 00 AM?

You need to apologize to so-and-so. No.

You're being unfair to Sheryl Sandberg.

You know what? We had a lovely chat last night, Scott and I did, just so you know. We did.

We spoke last night?

Two nights ago. Last night, two nights. Anyway, we had a lovely time. The edibles are checking in. No, I went out last night with my lovely wife. Okay, let's go on a quick break. We come back. Alphabet earnings, really interesting.

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Scott, we're back onto some earnings. Alphabet B, earnings and revenue expectations with a net income up almost 30% from the year prior. Well done, Sundar Kajai. The company specs 2026 CapEx spend to be... This is incredible. 165 and 175 billion, which could be more than double 2025 spending. And obviously, all in AI, shares are down 5% in the last couple of days because of the time of the taping. What do you think of these Alphabets Because you've been focused on the owner of Google.

Alphabets was my stock pick for 2025. This is nothing short of staggering. Annual revenues at 400 billion right now, YouTube revenue up 9%, Google The cloud up 48%, Cara. Oh, and by the way, OpenAI was supposed to kill Google Search. Search is up 17%. Google Services Revenue up 14%. They move fast.

They finally move fast.

The market was a little spooked by their CapEx expenditure. In this In this case, it's a feature, not a bug because they have the money to do it. You want to talk about a comeback story for the ages. Back in 2022, the market decided that Search had an existential threat with ChatGPT, and the stock was off 40%. And guess where the stock is now since it hit that low? It's up four fold. Since the quarter that ChatGPT was released, Google Search revenues are up 48%. They get about 90-95 times the number of queries as ChatGPT. The thing I took from these earnings were two things. One, staggering. And two, I think OpenAI is fucked. They're getting attacked from the side by Anthropic with incredible positioning, highlighting their soft tissue around advertising. They're getting attacked from above by Alphabet, which has more and probably IP and a fire hose of 2 billion people a day to point at their own AI platforms. And they're getting attacked from below by these open-weight LLMs out of China. I I saw this and I'm like, Jesus Christ, this company is on fire and well managed. Then I thought, there is no...

I think we have seen the peak of OpenAI's valuation. They're supposed to be raising money at 850. I think that'll be the high watermark.

All right. I hope. Well, interesting. Are now on to Disney, the company top earnings and revenue expectations with the Experience Department reporting over $10 billion in quarterly revenue for the first time. That's the parts. Overall, revenue for the entertainment segment of the company was up 7% year over year. Not bad, but he made another announcement, the CEO, Bob Iger. Josh DeMauro, will replace him. He has been at Disney for 28 years and most recently served as chairman of Disney Experiences, which makes it roughly 60% of the profit last year. The company also promoted top television executive, Dana Walton, to President and Chief Creative Officer. I mean, she gets the consolation prize, I guess. Once again, Scott, Cara was right. Let's listen to who I predicted Disney would choose in the October of 2024. Any idea who's who's going to be the next Bob Iger? Probably be someone internally. I'm guessing either Josh or Dana Walden. It just seemed like it's hard to run a company like Disney if you haven't been there in 103 years. We asked our friend and founding partner, Bob Bill Cohen, for his thoughts on the transition. Let's just quickly listen to him.

What do you have to say?

In many ways, it was the inevitable choice. In some ways, it was the most ironic choice. I say the ironic choice choice because, of course, Bob Chappek ran the Parks and Events division of Disney when Bob Iger selected him to be his first successor, and We all know that that did not work out at all. Now he's got Demaro as his successor, also from the Parks division. I say the inevitable choice because, look, let's face it, That's the division that's been hitting it out of the ballpark for the last few years. He's been monetizing the Disney IP beautifully. They were also very smart in keeping the people around at Disney who have the skills that he doesn't have, including Dana Walden promoting her, Alan Bergman, Jimmy Pataro, running ESPN. So he's got a good cast around him. If tomorrow can keep up what he's done in the Parks Department and increase the Disney stock price, which, of course, is what everybody wants him to do because it's floundered for the last couple of years, he'll be a success. If he can't do those things, and it's a big question mark still, he may go the way of Bob Chappick.

It's Chappek, actually. But this is really interesting. I thought that was really smart. Scott and I both think this company is going to get bought for some reason. Just right, correct? Are we still on that train?

If it doesn't get bought, it's inviting an activist. They'll give the new CEO a 24-month honeymoon period. But I wouldn't be surprised if someone is aggregating stock right now, because if you look at the 10-year returns of the S&P, it's almost quadrupled. Disney, it's flat. Bob Iger is the guy who decided after a successful tour of Vietnam to go back and basically has had his legs blown off. I mean, one of the worst decisions in corporate history, personally, was for Bob Iger to decide to shoot his successor and come back in like he was MacArthur. He wasn't. Anyways, this company will have an overhang on it until they do the following. This should be good bank, bad bank. If you will, it should be the streaming service, the studio, and the parks. They feed each other, IP, there's synergy, and there's flywheel. Then they've got to get rid of ESPN, ABC, cable networks, FX, Freeform, Disney channel, Nat Geo, because these things are just an anchor. The linear businesses are just awful, but the experiences, the parks and cruises and streaming are growing and getting profitable. When you have a conglomerate like this, what the market does is they find the shittiest business, which is the linear business, and they assign that multiple to the entire company.

Disney is probably, in my view, is one of the few values or good buys out there right now because it has unmatched IP. The parks business, assuming that the tariffs are reversed and people start coming back to the US at some point, is singular. I don't care what anyone thinks. If you don't take your kids and spend $1,400 a night in a shitty hotel three or four times before the age of 10, they call child services on you. They have a monopoly on children.

Not just that. It's toys.

Frozen. You have to have Disney+.

They still haven't been... I don't think they don't have Cocomelon. I think that's it over at Netflix. They still haven't caught on to some trends. That's my worry for them is they've got a lot of old trends, a lot of old stuff. Like K-pop Demon Hunters, for example, that was Netflix again. And some of the other ones that are very popular with kids, the more cutting-edge ones, they don't seem to be on top of them. I would imagine that Dana and there has to really focus on that. They have the traditionals and frozen, too, I mean, three and four coming out, which, of course, we have to see, and then we'll have all the things. But they've missed a lot of turns on the newest viral phenomena that are very lasting, too. That would be my thing. But content isn't the point. It's the parks. It's the streaming. It's the IP. And what do you do with that? And so to me, they have to really understand, maybe have a little more of a range in IP or something like that as they're doing over at Netflix and places. They could be a little more innovative.

But you're right, it has to be spun off. Let Jimmy Bidaro run all of those. I'd known him for a long time from Yahoo and very smart executive.

Their Experiences division in Q1 reported three times the operating income as the entertainment division. Division. The entertainment division, while the crown jewel there, the streaming services are actually getting some leverage. Their operating income was up 72%. If you have this unbelievable singular business with enormous modes called the Experiences division, and you have the studios which create IP for your streaming services, which is getting momentum. Right now, Netflix is Walmart and Disney is LVMH in the sense that Disney has a singular positioning around family that will be very strong for a long time in command margin. Those two growth companies together, and then you shed the problem child, the linear networks. This company immediately... I said this last year. I think they could sell, and they won't do this, ESPN, ABC, Entertainment, Global Networks, FX, all that shit, Natgeo. I think they could sell it for a dollar, and the company would be worth more in six months because it's an enormous overhang on them. It is.

Even though it makes a lot of profit.

Every analyst report says the following, Good, good, great, good, but There's always a but. And that is these huge cable companies. And by the way, that company, that bad bank- Why has Iider just done it before he leaves? I think he wanted a bigger number. He put a for-sale sign on these things 24 months ago. He did. But private equity, and now it's like whatever the one is from Comcast, someone is going to consolidate these things. And by the way, that'll probably be a good stock because someone will come in and start cutting costs faster than revenue declines. People usually overestimate the speed of revenue declines. That'll be a good business. It'll be a totally different business.

There's going to be a lot of activity because look, if Paramount doesn't get Mourner, that's going to be someone on the look out. You've got Comcast waiting in the wings. I went an Olympic party last night. Boy, they have a great month coming up. They've got the Super Bowl, they've got the Olympics, and they've got the NBA, something or other. They're calling it legendary February. They've got to do something. So there's going to be a lot of activity here. And you're right, the spinoff of ABC provides an opportunity for any of these players going forward. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we're going to talk about the Washington Post layoff, and I'm going to get some advice from Scott Galloway.

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So How did this movie get made? Who's it for? And if this is finally Melania Trump's side of the story, what does she have to say? That's coming up on Today Explained from Vox. Listen weekday afternoons, wherever you get your podcast. This week on Networth and Chill, I'm talking about what happens after you've mastered the basics, how to build wealth that actually lasts for generations. With the top 1% holding nearly a third of the nation's wealth and 98% of them being men, breaking into generational wealth isn't just about getting rich. It's about changing who gets to stay rich. Plus, I'm explaining the great wealth transfer, $124 trillion about to change hands over the next 25 years, and what it means for you. I'm answering your questions about calculating your networth, whether you should rent or buy to build wealth, and how to pass your retirement accounts to your kids without losing them to probate court. Whether you're just getting started or already maxing out your 401(k), this episode will show you how to think bigger than just making money today. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on youtube. Com/yourrichbff.

Scott, we're back with more news. The Washington Post is laid off about 30% of its employees. The cuts impact both business and newsroom roles including over 300. They're roughly 800 journalists. Interestingly, I looked at old memos, Bezos had added up to a thousand. He really grew it, and now he's ungrowing it. In all sections, the company have been impacted with a focus on sports, local news, and international coverage. Executive editor Matt Murray told us to have company had lost too much money for too long. It will now be focused on national news and politics, business, and health. Maybe they can hire Peter or Tia. I want you not to say people are precious right now. I want to talk about this because I've gotten dozens. I had been interested in looking at figuring out a way to buy it. I've gotten lots of calls this week from both employees, very wealthy people, people who are civically minded here in Washington, rich people. What do you think is going to happen here? I mean, let me just very briefly, since I I worked there, again, I started in the mail room. The way they did this, Bezos hasn't said a word.

The CEO didn't talk to any employees, hasn't been seen since they did this. They handed the bag to Matt Murray to deal with it, which to me was just cowardly. I put on threads, Bezos has twice the muscle, and then he's half the man from when I met him. That was a personal insult. I meant it in a really very significant way. What do you do with this? What What do you do? When I get all these calls, I'm doing great with the podcast, although apparently you're leaving me. I'm not.

I'm just banging Belarusian horrors.

Okay, it's fine. I don't care.

Consensual. By the way, real quick, who would have thought Hunter Biden would come across as so wholesome? All these prostitutes are on TikTok saying he was respectful. I can see it. They're all like, he likes crack and having sex with grown women. And he looks wholesome right now. He's not in the Epstein files. He's nowhere in the Epstein I have to say, yeah, I agree.

He looks like Richard Thomas from the Waltons right now. Who else did I see? Maybe Gavin Newsom. I'm like, How did you not get me? Anyway, tell me what to do here. Tell me what you think. Obviously, let me just tell you, thanks, Jeff. Really, the economics have changed. Everybody knows this. Stop lecturing us on things they know. They definitely had to cut costs. If I took it over, I'd cut costs, not in this nasty, prickish way while I'm appearing with Pete Hegset, looking I've had way too much Botox. I would say something to them if I was doing this, given how rich I am, and I certainly could afford it. I don't mean to say he has to lose money, but boy, the look is so bad. It's such a bad look. Him swanning around Paris while he's done this and then not even speaking to them. The whole thing just stinks the way he handled this. A really good people who will find jobs at some point. But it's a lot of people in the market all at once. What to do here without insulting Joe?

Go ahead. Okay, so this is Kara Swisher calling me at 11: 00 PM or midnight, asking my advice around the Washington Post and if and how you should get involved. Is that accurate?

Yes, correct.

Okay. First thing I say is, Hold on a second. I got to take my dogs out to pee because I just took edibles and I'll forget. If they pee on the stone, I'm going to be in a world of hurt. That's the first thing I say. All right, so now you're back. I take the dogs on a walk and I think about it. This is what I would say to you. Don't touch this thing with a fucking 10-foot pole, because here's the bottom line. First off, Jeff Bezos has made terrible personal brand error by not doing the following. He should have said, I have incredible reverence for journalism, for free speech. I bought this because I think it plays an important role in our society. It has come to my attention or I have decided I'm just not the right owner. He should have sold it to Bloomberg or some other billionaire two years ago, and they would have had a going-away party for him, and he should have wrapped himself in the importance of great journalism. What's so sad right now about the Washington Post is from, I would call it 2018 to 2023, they were on an upslope.

I started reading the Washington Post. I subscribed to it for its business news. I thought they did a really good job of business coverage. Talented journalist, an important- Good stories. Yeah, an important American asset. He should have gone out. Instead, he looks like someone who is purposely trying to disassemble it limb by limb. Now, the reason you should not get near this, Cara, is because if you were worth 10 billion and willing to allocate 2 or 3 billion over the next 20 or 20 years, I'd say, have at it. For the good of society. Have at it. It's philanthropy because here's the bottom line. In an era of social media where two-thirds of news is now garnered off of social media where they don't have to pay for content, long-form, thoughtful fact-check investigative journalism is a shitty business. Also, let me be clear that few news rooms I have been in, and I've been in some important ones, there's a general expectance and entitlement that, Oh, you're some rich person and you're funding my very important civic duty. I find there's a lack of recognition of the fact this is a private company that needs to figure out a way to make money.

I think that's been starched out of them. But go ahead.

I agree with you. I still think they find themselves especially precious, and that billionaires owe them a living. I don't think so. There may be There may be billionaires who see an opportunity here to... If you could find a billionaire backer who said, This is so important, and there are amazing journalists, it's an important asset. We have fewer and fewer of these assets that actually do the work and people trust. This plays an important role in society. I'm hoping that someone pops up and says, I'm putting together an advisory board of 12 amazing journalists, business people that will be the oversight board. Other than writing a check for $200 million to subsidize this thing every year, I'm not going to be involved because I see the importance. The same way someone writes a $100 or $200 million check to their favorite, to PETA or to or to planned parenthood or to whatever it might be, whatever their philanthropy, the NAACP, this has become a philanthropy. I say that in the best of terms in that it has a social good. But as a a capitalist endeavor, this shit just doesn't make any sense. Unfortunately, if you got involved without having billions of dollars to throw at the problem, you would get all of the frustration with none of the credit or the appreciation Regardless of your skills in journalism.

So unless you're willing to partner, unless you can find a billionaire who says, Okay, I'm going to take your guidance around an advisory board. We're going to run this thoughtfully, we are going to impose some discipline on it, but we're willing to lose 100 to 2 million, 100 million a year, it's just going to be good money after bad and more frustration.

There's no restructuring of this from your perspective. I mean, it doesn't have to be what it is. You and I have both started businesses and quite successful ones.

Unless you're going to milk it, there's no business here. There's no for-profit business here. This shit's expensive.

That's what I'm saying. What else could you imagine it being?

I think the Washington Post- What's the one in London where you live?

The Guardian, right?

Don't they have a- I think in order to get profits. You have to engage in rage baiting and A/B testing and a lack of fact-checking. The New York Times has done everything right, in my view, in terms of investing early in innovation and technology, and it's still a small, shitty business. Onlyfans will do more revenue than the New York Times this year. Absolutely. What do you do? Of course, you invest in digital. Of course, you have more subscription programs. But the only business strategy here is the following. You have to find a deep pocketed billionaire who says, This is such an important asset. It has such positive externalities for our society that it's worth me cutting a check for 100 to 200 million a year. But the notion that someone's going to come in and reinvent the Washington Post with new subscriptions, new ideas. No, it's not going to happen.

I don't think that. Let me tell you, I think there is... I agree with you. It's not a big money. You're right. The New York Times is incredibly successful and it's a very small business. I wouldn't say it's a shitty business. It's a small business, right? Sorry, Meredith, but it is. It's small. But she's done a great job with her small business. And it's profitable, which is great. I wonder if you could do that here and have a similar juxtaposition, because the Post has always been the Jan to Marsha at the New York Times, right? But I like Jan.

Pretty distant second. I know. It is.

And of course, the journal is in there, too. And that's going to undergo something when Rupert goes. That's going to change. But it's a It's really interesting to me. I know it's emotional. I know you think it's emotional, but I always think if I was in a ZBS, I'm like, I don't know what to do here. The post, I'm like, Well, what if we tried? It feels like there is some opportunity here, and I don't mean to make a lot of money. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about making something that is sustainable, useful, profitable enough, and serves an enormous profitable in terms of society, in helping society and helping really good journalists do what they do best and get out of their way. That's my feel.

There is no way you can maintain the quality of journalism and the fact-checking and the investigative reporting unless you have someone who recognizes the public good outweighs the profit here. I agree. We keep finding new people who think that they can have both. The reality is, if you want to give people bodily autonomy and have planned parenthood in Mississippi, you're going to lose money. I mean, this is a public good. It plays an important role. I pray, I can't for the life of me, figure out why Bezos didn't find... This is the bottom line, Republican billionaires by football teams Democratic billionaires by media companies.

Except now that he turned into whatever he turned into.

Why didn't he call Michael Bloomberg and say, Michael, you already have a newsroom. Could I have it? Take this off my hands for a dollar. And Bloomberg, whatever you think of Michael Bloomberg, he's a hero of mine. Yeah, I like him. I think he cares about democracy. I think he really appreciates journalism. He tries to hit it down the middle. I think he would do a great job with The Post.

And he's not so insecure as Jeff Bezos.

And at some point, one of these 30 or 40-something crypto or tech billionaires is going to pop up. Matthew Prince from Cloudflar just pulled out of my ass. He strikes me as a really thoughtful guy, a really nice man. I'm like, Is your legacy going to be a cloud-based company, or is it going to may be saying, journalism is important. I'm going to take a billion dollars, and over the next decade, I'm going to make sure that the Washington Post continues to have- Or maybe a lot of these people. No fear, no favor around DC politics, or it's a consortium of them. But the first meeting has to be, Stop the fucking consensual hallucination. We're going to lose $100 million a year.

I agree. On a personal level, I have to say when I was talking to someone this morning, we were very much like, I was like, I'm making a ton of money and I get to do what I want. It's easy. It's not easy, it's just pleasurable.

Cara, I'm telling you, if I were advising you personally, I'd be like, Don't get fucking near this. Look at your life right now. You're having an impact, you're making a shit ton of money, you got young kids at home, and you want to be up late at night talking to the editor of something saying why he's pissed off of you because you went from 11 people to nine. You don't need this shit at this point in your life.

Anyway, I do would say, let me just tell you, please give to their guild. They got laid off. These are people who've done an amazing public service, and I gave a substantive amount of money for me to them.

I'm sorry. I'm going to piss off everyone. Why are we giving money to people laid off at the post?

I do that with lots of layoffs, my friend. You don't know that. I do.

Did you do it with the 12,000 people laid off at Amazon last week?

If there's a fund, I'd be happy to give to it. Absolutely. I do. I do. I'm sorry, I do that a lot. You don't know that. It's a quiet little thing I do. Anyway, I will. If there's a fund for Amazon, please let me know, and I will be happy to give to it.

No, you won't. You're not going to give money to people laid off at Amazon corporate.

I will. You're wrong. Just because you're a greedy fuck doesn't mean I am. I give a lot more money.

You really think greedy fuck is the right- I don't think that.

I think you give a lot. I think you're very generous.

I'm just- Anyways, I would like to know what the This is what the severance is. I'll give you an example. There's a cupcake thing called Sprinkles. The female founder came on and said, This is not what my legacy wanted to be. She sold the private equity and she gave people one day's notice when they all got fired. Those people should be publicly ashamed like crazy. I would like to know what the severance is for these 300 people, but there are massive layoffs everywhere.

I agree. Also, those people- You're stack ranking.

You don't have to stack rank. Those people are being laid off. This is going to sound weird. In some ways, They're going to be better off. The Washington Post gets very talented people. In an effort to reduce costs, they have hired, they've gone younger and younger because younger people are willing to be underpaid. You're going to see so many new substacks. You're going to see so many little pocket is going to hire a bunch of these people. You're probably going to hire one or two of these people. These people are going to go on to greener pastures as opposed to being subject to the whims of a billionaire who wakes up and thinks, Oh, I don't know how I feel about the post. Lay off 300 people and keep my distance from it. But what the fuck is he thinking not finding someone else to take it off his hands? I don't get it. I just don't get it.

I know. Let me say, a lot of the decline recently, it's definitely a secular problem, has been directly because of his stupid ass decisions. There was one after the next. A lot of these problems were because of the way he's been managing this. And his CEO, let me just say, Will Lewis, you should be ashamed of yourself, of how you've behaved in all your idiotic ideas.

We have a bunch of producers at our different podcasts. I don't know if you can see, I have some of them behind me.

I know that, yeah.

But I sent a message to the woman who runs our company and said, We should be reaching out to some people at The Post. Find people that we love. The Post right now is literally a recruiter's dream. Yeah, it is. Every one at The Post, even the ones that didn't get light off, will return your call right now. Yeah, that's true. I feel sorry from the sense that this was their dream job. These people are going to be just fine. These are very talented people. I think part of capitalism is- I get it. If you make it easy to fire people, you make it easy to hire them. I think I would bet 95% of these people in two years look back on this and go, Yeah, I I miss it. It was great training, and I'm making more money and having more impact and more relevance now. More fun. Yeah, it's true. I don't have to wake up and hear what a guy in Parting in St. Bart's thinks about layoffs.

It's true. But in any case, Steph, you're such an asshole. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Over the last several years, AI companies of all shapes and sizes have been desperately trying to get their hands on every bit of available data to make their models better.

This week on the VergeCast, we have the story of how Anthropic destroyed hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of books, and fed them all to Claude. Plus, we have information on who in tech is in the Epstein files, what's going on with Netflix, whether it's Woke, whether it's going to buy Warner Brothers, and whether Peloton is going to successfully sell you a treadmill ever again.

All that on the VergeCast, wherever you get podcasts. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. I'm going to take a moment, though, before you do that, to say, Savannah Guthrie's family with their mom missing. I know I've met her mom. She's amazing. I hope, hope, hope they find her alive. It's so sad what's happening. It's getting far too much like media is jumping all over in an untoured way. But if that helps get her back, I'm all for it. But I just want to send my love out to her family. They're wonderful people.

It's really interesting, isn't it? How some stories really I mean, 35,000 people have supposed to have been murdered in Iran. But this story really hits you because, A, people really, really appreciate and have a lot of fondness for Savannah. But occasionally, there's a story, and it just it grabs It does. I mean, this story has really grabbed people because this is everyone's nightmare, not knowing what's happening, not knowing what's going on. But I was really struck at how, and it's nice that occasionally people slow down, and when they hear an individual story. It really moves them. I think the attention being brought to it is probably a good thing. Probably is. I think there's a lot. If anyone sees their mom, they're going to know it. That's right. I think it's... Anyways, I- There's a surprising, not big number fear of kidnappings, too, in this country. It's very rare. We all talk about the fear of kids and kidnapping.

It's all over TV, but it's not true.

It's very rare.

All right, let's hear a prediction from you.

Effectively, I don't know. This is really good news, but essentially, there are social media bans breaking out all over the world. Norway has a complete ban under 13. Belgium requires children under 13 to have parental permission. Germany requires parental consent for users aged 13 to 16. Italy requires parental consent at sign up for users under the age of 14. Spain just announced that it's the latest country. They're banning social media kids under 16. Eighty-two % of Spaniards support banning social media for kids under 14. Greece is also nearing a social media ban for children under 15. Australia has implemented a similar ban. Also, just a shout out to my colleague, Jonathan Hyte. I think this would have happened anyway, but he's expedited it. I agree. I think he deserves a lot of credit for this. Sure has. I mean, for those of you who think about going to academia, you can go into academia, study social science, get a PhD in psychology, and someday get entire nations to ban phones in schools. To think that academic economics don't matter, you can have a lot of impact. Anyways, that's not my prediction. My prediction is that this is essentially not only common sense around our children, but this is the beginning of reciprocal tariffs.

What do I mean by that? Other nations are sick of the sclerotic, irrational, punitive economic warfare that the Trump administration has levied on them with tariffs. Their tariffs are the following. They're going to start banning our social media platforms. The UK is already going after X. You are going to start to see, over the course of the next 12 to 24 months, entire nations say, You know what? Maybe we don't need YouTube here. Maybe Metta should not be here. Maybe we won't use Zoom.

I think France is stopping using Zoom in the government.

They're going to blanket in, Okay, Metta is bad for children, which is true. But the real motivation, in my view, is going to be like, You know what? We're sick. If you're going to start making it harder for Americans to buy our Mercedes and our Vuitton, we're going to make it harder for people to watch YouTube and be on Instagram. I think European nations and the rest of the G7 are sick of big tech coming in, sucking billions of dollars out of their economy in exchange for opening a Facebook office in Milan. Their newspapers are going out of business, their media companies are going out of business, their manufacturers are going out of business. This is essentially the thing that is tipping these companies over and giving them the backbone to start banning these things, and it's going to go up the food chain. Pretty soon, you're going to see a large nation say, You know what? I don't think we need Google. While it's being done under the very righteous and worthwhile cause of protecting children, which I celebrate and I think is important, effectively, what this is is a reciprocal tariff, and pretty soon, it's going to start creeping up.

You know what's going to happen? Countries are going to decide, You know what? We no longer want to use Goldman Sachs and McKinsey to do our banking. If you're going to start fucking with us, we're going to start fucking with you.

Speaking of consumers, they're consumers, so they can speak with their... They can walk. They can walk. That's the thing. There are alternatives.

I love the idea I love consumers speaking with their spending power. I think it makes all the sense in the world.

I know you do. That's why you look like an unsuccessful pimp this week. What's your outfit for next week?

I don't know. I'm thinking I bought... I'll give you a hint. I have a hockey I have a Nike jersey, and I'm not wearing any pants.

Oh, nice. That's good. Good. Be on brand. That's perfect. That's perfect. On trend and on brand. That's really important, Scott, and I think you're right. Before when Europe was not innovative the way the US has been on all these services, there are alternates right now. There are so many alternates to everything. If Silicon Valley thinks they hung the fucking moon, well, they did. They might have, but no longer. And there are alternates in every single category now that you don't have to put up with the ridiculous midlife crisis antics of Jeff Bezos or whatever fresh hell meta is going to leap and leash upon us. There are choices now. Some of them might be China, by the way, and that's saying a lot if that's where they're going. I agree with you. I think it's really important. Just so you know, everyone, we will talk about Malt Book and Open Claw next week. It's fine. Agent to agent was always the plan, but we'll talk about that. It's interesting. We also We'll talk about Section 230. There's been a new bill to overturn and replace it. Ondly enough, I ran into Joseph Gordon-Levitt this week, and he was here helping.

We'll talk about that next week because Section 2 there is really interesting. I had some really interesting discussions with him and others about Can I just say I love the image of you being barely able to see over the mail card going around and people mistaking you for a 15-year-old boy?

Can I just say I love that image? I love that you started the Washington Post mail room. That is really cool.

I reorganized it. That is really cool. It was so messy. I reorganized all the boxes because I'm so anal retentive. I remember doing that. What are you doing? I'm like, This is inefficient. Then I was in college. It's true. I was slightly taller.

Hey, little fella, don't worry. He'll grow. Oh, wait. No, that's I'm not a social switcher.

Anyway, they didn't know my name at all. Let me tell you, from doing that, everybody who was talented was nice to me. Untalented people were assholes. It was really fascinating.

I worked in a mail room. I worked in a mail room of Southwestern University School of Law, where my mom in the secretarial pool, and we used to have lunch together.

Here we are together again without my picture behind you. Anyway, I'm not offended.

But here's the thing. I'm going to have to move to a... Everyone's all over me. You're selling your Apple stock. Did you unsubscribe this? I'm going to have to move to Ted Kuzinski's shed and no entertainment and have a ham radio because I'm running out of things to unsubscribe to. I wanted to... I've been binging that gay hockey thing, which I think could easily turn me something.

Yay. What do you think? Really quickly, what That's just funny because we'll have a bonus episode tomorrow. I spoke to the executive producers of Heated Rivalry about how they made the breakout hit for a fraction of the cost of other major streaming shows and what they've got coming out next. What do you think so far? I made Scott watch Heated Rivalry.

I think it's an important series for young men to watch because there's different forms of leadership and masculinity and empathy and love and sexual identity. I got to be honest, Cara, every time I see something like this, I'm reminded of how many people I lost to AIDS back in the '90s. I don't think I hope and trust that young people, and especially gay men, realize how important science is and how fortunate they are and that America has made a lot of progress around these issues. I can't watch anything about gay men and not think about the '90s.

You and I, both. Absolutely. Anyway, I'm so glad you're watching it. I hope I can't wait until you get to episode 5. Anyway, we want to hear from you, and we have some homework for our listeners today. Send us a message about your favorite or least favorite Super Bowl ad after the big game on Sunday. Go to nymag. Com/pivot or call 855-51-pivot.

Also, I woke up this morning in a Toronto Maple Leaves Jersey, a half-bottled drink of Jack and a condom hanging out of my ass. I don't know if that is anything We're taking that out. With anything.

We're taking that out. Go to nymag. Com/pivot or call 855-51-pivot. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe, not unsubscribed, to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week.

Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Sonja Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Inertat engineered this episode. Manola Moreno edited the video. Thanks to also to Jibrose Ms. Sivira, and Dan Chalanne. The ShotCroise Vox Media's executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York magazine of OxMedia. You can subscribe to the magazine, nymag. Com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier.

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