Transcript of Kevin O'Leary's Crypto U-Turn, Data Center Lawsuits, and the $28 Sandwich Rematch

You know what stops you from being diversified? Greed. Greed. You always think, I'm so right, I'm gonna bet the farm on this thing. And you're never right, because karma comes and spanks you like a baby seal.

Kevin O'Leary, aka Mr. Wonderful, is the chairman of O'Leary Ventures and an OG Shark who has never, ever met an opinion he would not say out loud. You might not agree with him on everything, and I certainly do not, as you'll hear. I don't know, Kevin, I'm gonna, I'm gonna push back on this one. But you cannot deny that he has interesting and entertaining takes on money. So he is back on Money Rehab, and we talk about his new stance on crypto, the stakes of the Clarity Act, which could get voted in or out any day now.

Unless the bill passes, it's stuck here. It's not going anywhere. $60,000, $70,000. Bitcoin will go nowhere if that bill does not pass.

Why the data center debate is so, so spicy.

You know how many lawsuits I've been hit with for just data centers?

And we create a financial health checklist that gives you license to treat yourself, or at least we try. I started this conversation by asking for a truce.

No, it didn't work. Shame on you.

I will not be shamed. I'm Nicole Latvin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some Money Rehab.

Money Rehab.

Kevin O'Leary, welcome back to Money Rehab.

Great to be back. Love this place.

I love when you're here, except for the fact that this time you did not bring your little friend. No, did not bring the LaBooBoo back.

No, I didn't. LaBooBoo is no longer with me. It died a tragic death. Uh, it hung off my bag until it just looked so ratty that I think a dog stole it. So, plus I was going into some crazy meetings internationally with— not everybody gets it. Like, the BooBoos aren't as hot as you would think in, let's say, Zurich, you know, that kind of thing.

That's not the vibe.

Or, uh, yeah, or, you know, UAE wasn't quite hip with it. So, you know, it caused more friction than excitement.

I mean, you have a lot of shtick going on. Like, you have the gold jacket and the lobster necklace and the two red watches and the LeBubu. But I will remind you that last time you were here, I offered you $5 million for the LeBubu and you turned it down.

Yeah, that was probably a mistake, but I think I've done quite well since that offer on other things, controversial stuff. You know, I think, and this is controversial itself, people say, "Why are you such a social media whore?" And I say, "I'm advertising my entrepreneurs every day. I am reducing their customer acquisition cost and I'm increasing their return on ad spend." That's what I do. I invest in them and I do everything in my power to get their story out there on every media There is, and you're part of that. I mean, you got— this thing's very successful, in case you didn't know. Thank you so much. And so I wouldn't be here. I would not be here if I was gonna waste my time. I'm being honest with you. This would not be something I would do unless I thought I would get something out of it, you'd get something out of it, and my entrepreneurs would get something out of it. That's being honest.

So you're a self-professed social media whore?

Yes, thank you. Very proud of it. Pretty good at it too. And I think you kind of fall in that category too, by the way.

Are you calling me a social media whore?

I think you're on social media. I didn't say you were a whore, but you're out there.

I mean, I think that what you bring up is a very important point. When you're doing it strategically and you're investing in companies, you're not only putting your actual money to get equity, but if you have sweat equity or value that you can add on top of that, then you're only increasing your own investment.

And it's measurable. So what matters to our team, and I say team because even since I saw you last, it's doubled in size, we try and optimize engagement. If we have a story to tell, we want as many people to hear it as we can because it's very noisy out there. There's a lot of competition for people's minds and eyeballs and time. And so I ask myself that all the time and trying to distinguish between what is noise and what is signal, which I think is how you should live your life.

So I'm gonna then call myself a social media signalist.

Very good. It, it avoids a little controversy, which sometimes isn't bad.

Listen, if I was not in business or if I was not investing, you would never hear from me ever.

Right.

I would be under a tree reading some poetry. Like the reason that I'm on social media is not for vanity.

No, I get it. But I mean, you're building a business here. That's what you're doing. You're an entrepreneur. Um, this is a medium that you have found a way to optimize, right? You got a team, they're doing it. You know, I'm very selective now on where I burn my time, particularly on podcasts, which are long format. They're long format. So time, time is the most valuable commodity there is.

It's the only thing you can't get back. You can always get more money.

You can't get more time. And so I don't need any more money. But I wish I could buy more time with it, which you can't, unfortunately.

Okay, so we agree on this, which is crazy because the last time you were here we fought a lot.

Well, I hope we do it again.

Okay, let's do it. But I think we can find some truces though.

I'm using money to buy longevity. I'm trying every possible methodology to extend my cognitive health and mobility that I can. I'm— experimental treatments in Dubai, Complete radical change in diet, exercise.

Are you on Ozempic?

No, here's the debate. One of my longevity guys, a guy I respect a lot, I've got about 6 of them now. They're all different specialists. He said, why don't we start microdosing Ozempic? Here's the needles. 2.5 is the measure. You're going to stick one in your stomach every single week.

And you couldn't do it?

So this was just before Shark Tank started taping. I thought, do I want to mess with my brain just before I go on the tank? That's probably not a good idea. I'll wait till I get off the tank. And then something else came up and I said, yeah, do I want to stick that in? Because if you listen to people, it changes a lot of stuff. Like it's, it's going into your brain and messing with, you know, receptors.

That's not— it's not a magic fix with no side effects.

Well, so they're in the fridge, and I just— 2 days ago, before I flew here, I was shooting a commercial yesterday. I reached over the bag of the needles and grabbed a bottle of wine and took it out. I was thinking to myself, I don't want to do that. I'd rather— I'd rather force discipline on myself to Eat better food, maybe, which I can do. That's something I can do. But there's other things coming up with LP-1s that are interesting about heart, about brain, about Alzheimer's, all kinds of claims that are— I haven't heard any negative ones yet.

Nothing verified. We should do all the disclaimers, all the—

No, no, I'm not telling anybody to take this. I'm not taking it. You asked me, I'm saying no, I haven't done it yet. But if this keeps— I mean, this drug is getting a lot of accolades for sure.

I mean, I think we can agree that we spend a lot of our health getting wealth, and then when we get wealth, we spend a lot of that getting back our health.

I like that because I would like to spend— you know, the analogy for me is I invest in so many things, why not invest in myself? Why not put a lot of dough into me? Which I think is— I don't mean watches, I mean staying healthy. That's it. So I don't think I've ever felt better than I feel now, and a lot of that has to do with sleep management, I think. People don't get enough sleep. It matters.

How many hours are you sleeping?

7 hours and 20 minutes a night. Not every night, obviously, but I have a— A system that says there's a deficit of 40 minutes, make it up. I'm really anal about this stuff. And the only negative, I don't take drugs, I don't smoke, I work out, I eat very well, is wine. It's my only problem.

Do you also invest in wine as an adult? I do. Because you've been out there too. You mentioned some controversial investments, not the LaBooBoos anymore. So we're bearish on LaBooBoos, but we're bullish on collectibles.

Well, we have to get into data centers soon. That's the big change for me.

All right, let's fight about it. We have an agenda of fights.

Good, good, let's go. You want to talk about controversy? You know how many lawsuits I've been hit with for just data sets?

I've been seeing.

Yeah, unbelievable.

And so I don't know what you can talk about there, but what's the latest?

You know, it's crazy. In the same time that one was filed against me, another one I won in North Dakota, which is now public. I think they went after me for $100 million.

So clarify what happened. So the one that was against you and you got— Well, let's say lawsuits.

Let's talk about, because I have many lawsuits, but I'm just saying generically, let's start at 30,000 feet to talk about the society we live in and the role of litigation in business and investing. That's the best way to start.

So it almost sounds like you're using it as a badge of honor, the fact that you have so many lawsuits.

No, I don't. I don't want litigation.

I mean—

But what I've realized is I'm a target. People say, "Oh, I'm gonna—" Here's a classic lawsuit. "Just sued you for $100 million, but if you settle with me by midnight tomorrow, I'll walk away for $250,000." There was a time when I would do that. Not anymore, because that just invited more of that behavior. Now, here's my new mode of operation, because this has been going on for years. "Okay, I sued you for—" The one in North Dakota was for fraud. You're a fraudster and I'm suing you for $100 million. After going through the whole process, the judge threw it out, said the claims were frivolous and had no merit and just false. But that's not where the journey ends for me. The case is over, but the journey's just started because I want to know who were those people? Who paid them to do that? How did that happen? I've never talked to them. Their journey is just starting with me now. And the reason I have to do that is I have to show others that are considering doing the same thing what that journey looks like and what it costs. It ain't free.

'Cause you can start with a contingency lawyer that's probably, I don't know yet, we're gonna find out through the whole discovery, that said, look, let's just sue O'Leary for $100 million. I can probably get a million out of him, I'll keep 30%.

Yeah, but they're using the contingency, you're not. So how much are you spending on this?

I have to hire a real lawyer and pay them a lot of money, hundreds of thousands of dollars, just on that journey itself, just to get to court.

Do you know what the bill is?

Don't know, I just got this ruling yesterday. I have to wait and see. But now the journey begins for them because they ain't seen nothing yet. And it's so important that I do that for them, but mostly to show others this is the cost of bringing a frivolous, baseless claim. This is what it costs because in America, if you use a contingency lawyer, it doesn't cost you anything. And that's a problem with our system. In England, if you lose, you pay the other side's fees.

And the other person has to respond. Yes. So in—

so these cases, of which there are multiple cases, they all have a start, the trial ends, and then the other journey begins.

So you're giving the message, we don't negotiate with terrorists. No, I can't. I tried. Do you have a budget?

Do you have a limit? I have an unlimited budget. I have an unlimited budget because every claim is always $100 million or $1 billion or $5 billion. It's all, you know, the, the FTX litigation, which I was just one person in, that was $5.2 billion. Like, that's a lot of money. So they just keep— nobody sues you for $10. Like, so we're in a very litigious— my point is, at the 30,000-foot level, We're in a very litigious society and people use it as a tool, a weapon in business. And I understand it and I appreciate it and I respect it. And I now play that game in a different way because now I understand how it works. That's my answer. That was a long answer.

I mean, some of what's been going on with the data centers We need data centers. I was an early investor in SpaceX. I'm on your team. We need to get more. Yeah, we need them in America. Yeah, I think, I think we can agree on that. My concern is that some of this rhetoric that's been going on specifically about the Utah case, calling names and the rest of it, is not, you know, Kevin, uh, not great for our cause because you're giving the opposition and ad of, of what you're saying about them to use against this really important cause.

Yeah, but, and you brought up a good point earlier, that's an active complaint. So no, I'm not going to talk about it. It's going, it's starting its journey now. However, I will say on a categorical basis, I agree with Senator Cotton on the investigation he asked the DOJ to start and allegedly has started about the Singham Network. I agree with the president's comments last week about foreign entities interfering using— we have freedom of speech in America. We can go out there and put stuff out there because we believe that we have the right to do that. But our adversaries know that too. You couldn't do some of the things that happen in America in China. You'd be gone. They control that. We don't do it the same way. So if you're an adversary and you want to have influence on any sector, I think the sector that is more interesting to look at is not data centers, it's power, because you can't have a data center without power. And if I look at what happened in the last 2 years in China, which I think is our adversary—

would you agree with me on that? Yeah, but what I'm saying is that we don't want to be adversarial against different states. You know, Maine has put a moratorium on data centers. New York too. I think Missouri, a town in Missouri, is also against it. People— it's a not in my backyard situation.

But why is that? Let's ask— you tell me. Okay, so where did this claim come from that data centers use up so much water that It's like the entire water table of a state is gonna go down 10 feet. All these ridiculous claims. Do you know what uses more water than many data centers? A golf course. Why aren't we shutting all the golf courses down? If you really are worried about water in any state, look at how much water a golf course uses, because the modern-day data center today does not use water like the ones from 20 years ago. So now we have a closed loop like your car radiator. You use the same water to cool the chips, so you're not using more water than that. And the turbines that used to use a lot of water are now, in many cases, air-cooled or a combination of water and air, or battery and solar and turbines, and in some cases wind. So everybody's got the same problem, but the idea that it's going to create massive amounts of heat, massive amounts of light, massive amounts of noise, huge drain on water— Where did all that come from?

Who said that in Michigan or in Virginia where all these claims and all this litigate, everybody that's building power, it seems, gets sued.

Look, we need more power, period, the end. We need it from the land, from the sea, from space. We need it everywhere, but I want us to win. As the US. And so isn't it better to join forces against foreign adversaries versus doing more infighting?

And there you are, you agree on the only way this is going to get resolved. And I think Senator Cotton has started this narrative. All of these claims, all of these claims in all of these states and all of this misinformation costs money. And what he's doing, and I totally agree with him, is let's discover. If you bring a claim in Michigan, you bring a lawsuit, you open yourself up for discovery. And in discovery, you find out who's paying for what. That's the nature. So all he's saying is, let's dig in. Let's lean in and find out Where is all the capital coming from that pays for all of this? Because it costs money. And I think if you and I talk again in 12 months, maybe, maybe 14, 18, I don't know how long it's going to take. We're going to find out.

What you're saying, I think, if I can read between the lines, and I'll say this, not you, if you do a financial colonoscopy, essentially, which is what discovery is, and follow the money trail and see where the money is coming, that perhaps some of your claims that you've alluded to.

I'm not talking about Utah.

I haven't said anything about Utah, about that some of it might be coming— money might— could be coming from China or other places.

I'm saying that on aggregate, nationally, not just for power or data centers, for elections which are coming up. Who funds all this stuff is the question. And so I think there should be total transparency on where the money comes from. I always say for everything that's that requires capital to move the needle, be transparent.

Listen, you want to get to the heart of any story, you follow the money trail.

Yeah, that's my point. I think that's a reasonable assumption. I think that's the right thing to do. I don't know what's going to happen in any one state over another, but, you know, do I find myself as one of the 15 groups that develop data centers under tremendous scrutiny? Yeah, I do. I mean, it's, it's not— listen, I'm building in Alberta. I've got one in Norway. I've got one in Finland. I don't see people picketing in Norway. They try and bring those jobs there. They want them. Those are successful, up and running power and data center facilities. Okay.

Now that we're taking a pulse check on all things power, we have to get— help me untangle your thoughts on crypto lately, because at first you own 27 coins. Then you say it's going to $150 for Bitcoin. Then you say poo-poo on the poo-poo coins. Where do you stand now, Kevin?

Well, I'm glad you brought it up because when things change, I change my, uh, strategy. And so what has changed since last time you and I talked about this? Let's just go through the list. October last year, third week. Let's take a snapshot of what occurred. There was a lot of optimism that the, the Genius Act had just passed, which made stablecoins legal, and they're now being used for legal tender. USDC, Tether, all that stuff, they're being used all around the world. And it's backed by a security, usually the Treasury bill, less than 92-day duration. That's a known thing, and it's been adopted and is being adopted. What was assumed is right after that bill, the Clarity Act, or the Infrastructure Act, it was called back then, which would finally make a determination about what is Bitcoin, a commodity or security. What is it? Let's, let's rule on it, make a decision, and then decide which regulator is going to oversee the policy. They did that in March, essentially calling it a commodity. Yeah, but the act has still been stalled. The Clarity Act, it's right now in front of lawmakers as you and I speak, and there's a lot of hope that this time it's going to pass with a lot of regulation in it.

For example, not allowing interest on stablecoins, but a bank can pay you interest on cash. Seems a little unfair, so they've got to work all that out. Not allowing a president to— any president to profit on the trade of of coins is also being contemplated in that act and other things. But mostly what the most important thing is, is that it would make it easy for an institution to say, well, my compliance department has now seen its law and now I can own 3% weighting in crypto. Back then I had 27 positions. You're right. Here's what happened. All these institutions, big ones, the sovereign wealth funds started doing their analysis for— because I remember there was a conference, the Cantor Conference, that was going on in Florida at the time, and I spoke there along with many others about this situation. Wasn't even a dilemma. If you do the analysis, and this is the part that nobody did, the whole crypto industry was saying, you gotta own this, you gotta own that, you need a little bit of this and a little bit of that, you know, that whole thing. Like which blockchain, yadda woof woof woof woof, was going to make it.

Some young analyst, I don't know who, said, hey boss, I don't know anything about crypto, but you asked me what positions we have to put on to get exposure to the market. And he said, you only need two. You get 97% of the volatility, the entire market, with Bitcoin and Ethereum. The rest are poo poo. And he was right. And the— all the poo-poo coins collapsed. They, they lost, some of them, 90% of their value. A total dire— it was diarrhea on crypto. It was all over the floor. And everybody out there trying to tell their story about their poo-poo coin went, what happened to my poo-poo coin? And, and at the same time that was happening, you asked me for the answer, I'm giving it to you, okay? The concern that AI was going to change enterprise software development. Do you remember that? When all of a sudden the software companies started correcting in multiples because people were using Claude to write code. So if, if you're writing code to make a blockchain, and you think that has a lot of value, that became into question.

So you then became obsessed with Bitcoin and Ethereum as the only two coins?

I didn't get obsessed. I simply sold all the poo-poo, and I sold the poo-poo. I was very lucky. Some of the poo-poo, before it went to technically zero, I mean, it's trading for— it's all worthless now. I got out of, and I took it, and I just bought three things: USDC, Bitcoin, you know, Bitcoin and Ethereum.. And those came back somewhat, 50% retracement, but the rest of the diarrhea poo-poo, you're screwed. But as in infomercials, there's more! At the same time, the concept of quantum computing emerged, which is horrible for Bitcoin or anything to do with digital security, because what they're saying now is We're all, instead of 15 years away from quant breaking any algorithm, Q-Day, as it's called, could be around the corner. What that means, nobody knows. But that scared off, in my estimate, about 10% of sovereign wealth to say, you know this Bitcoin stuff? Forget it. Like, I'm just not gonna get my head, why am I gonna take that risk if Q-Day's coming? So you had all of these things happening at the same time.

And crypto got slaughtered. Yeah, Bitcoin's down 44% year to date. The market's up 18%.

But if I'm an institution, I don't need anything. The numbers don't lie. You just go back and look at the numbers. Look at 18 months worth of vault closing prices or any price you want. There's no closing price on Bitcoin. But the point is, just look at the data. It's sobering. It says you only need to own Bitcoin. Some people say I don't even need to own Ethereum. Why? I just need Bitcoin if I want to be in crypto, that's it. And so I think now the more interesting investment would be to figure out which blockchain becomes the standard for inventory and contract management in the S&P 500. I don't know which one's gonna— that would be an interesting enterprise software investment. I don't know, you don't know, nobody knows because you can't find a single blockchain that's standard. Across all 11 sectors.

Well, Figure is trying to figure that out. Everybody's trying to figure it out. As like the picks and shovels, so to speak, of blockchain. Exactly, exactly.

But if it's just enterprise software, yeah, it'll trade at a 12 multiple, 15 multiple, so what? It's all the excitement of what crypto was going to be and the alternative banking system and all that hype. It's just, it seems like a le booboo ago, you know, it's just another le booboo. And I'm not against crypto. I'm a big believer in digital payment systems, USDC, but it was just one of those NFT moments. And now as we sit here a year older, I think it was a year you and I were sitting here, a lot of money's been lost.

A lot of money has been lost.

So what's your new price target? Unless the bill passes, it's stuck here. It's not going anywhere. $60,000, $70,000. Bitcoin will go nowhere if that bill does not pass.

So you don't believe Bitcoin is digital gold, Ethereum is digital oil?

No, I think that people like the idea of a hedge on inflation, and Bitcoin could be one of those. Gold certainly is. But until I see the whites of their eyes in an institutional analysts say they're putting a 1% position on. You know, for all of this hype about Bitcoin, nobody owns it. Not— how much do you own? It's a tiny— in fact, I was just looking at that this morning. I was looking at my, my weighting of all my crypto, which includes infrastructure elements to it. It's down from 19% to 14% of our portfolio. Part of that's price correction.

It was as high as 24% once, which is against Mama Georgette's rule of no more than 5%.

No, no, no. I'm talking all of the positions. So you've got Ethereum in there, you've got Bitcoin in there. Of your overall portfolio? Yeah. You've also got holdings. BitZero is a company that's the one that has the power contracts in Norway and Finland. It's now on NASDAQ. It's a trading company. You know, I'm a shareholder in that and I I just bought it because they have power. They don't care if it's a hyperscaler or if it's AI or it's Bitcoin or Ethereum. They just have power, land, fiber, and permits, which I think is the best deli you can have.

So you didn't sell any of your crypto?

No, it just corrected in price 40%, as you know. And BitZero actually was my best performing asset in crypto. I think I invested in that when it was a private company, went public. So it's been a, you know, a good— I haven't sold a share yet because I believe that what's going to happen, and you talked about it earlier, the real commodity today about all crypto and all things digital, including data centers, is power. We don't have enough. Other countries, the lowest cost of power in the world is $0.01 a kilowatt hour in Saudi Arabia, then Norway and Finland at $0.03 to $0.04. Canada, 4.5 cents. Stateside, 6 to 8 cents. So we're not the cheapest power here. Canada is going to be a big winner in this thing.

So if power is the winner, why don't we just invest in power and not crypto? We had Bill Ackman on the show last week. He doesn't have a dog in that fight. He's like, no thank you. I don't want anything to do with Bitcoin. I don't want anything to do with crypto. Not interested.

Well, there, there's a good example of how you know, that fight's already been lost for him. He doesn't care. I'm saying to myself, if the bill passes, which is a bet on the bill, I'm betting on the outcome of the bill. And I worked on that bill with Hagerty years ago and Gillibrand, like way back. It was— Genius Act and the Infrastructure Act or Clarity Act were once one big bill. And they decided, let's get this thing resolved with stablecoins. Beautiful. Well, I— well, you know, but it's, it's— I don't know, Kevin.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna push back on this one because I think generally in the market you buy the rumor, you sell the news. Since March it's been considered a commodity. It's gone into big inflows of ETFs. I bid— I own, you know, the song, the FFBTC. It's, it's a poo-poo ETF.

It's nothing.

I mean, I don't think that having clarity go into— you think the fact that it's invest and we already have ETFs. I think it's a bigger problem. It's like you saying, OK, there's a patient, the patient has a cold and the patient has cancer. So let's give the patient some cold medicine so that the patient's going to get cured. The bigger issue is, is the demand, not just the bill. Well, I would listen.

You said you think it's Bitcoin's big. It's nothing in the context of the global market, FX market, currency market. Commodity market, asset market. It's nothing. And so it's going to remain nothing.

Bitcoin's $1.3 trillion. It's nothing.

That's— I know that sounds like a lot of money. It's nothing. It's nothing.

It's— I mean, Ethereum's $230 billion.

That is nothing in the context of global sovereign wealth holdings. It's, it's, it's, it's lunch without protein.

So do you think the better play to get exposure responsibly is Coinbase, Robinhood. I know you invest in those.

I own all those. I own those, and those are infrastructure. They're in my crypto basket. I call it that. I actually think the play that will outperform until we meet again, so to speak, will be just pure power. If you make power, if you invest in power infrastructure, that's turbine manufacturers, transmission, manufacturers, companies that are aggregating power contracts from nuclear and hydro. What's the best place to do that? Well, for me, it's— I'm not recommending this to anybody, but for me, the country that's winning, countries that are winning, are the Nordic countries. So for me, the one that's performed the best has been Bitzero, because all it's done is said, I can't— it used to be a Bitcoin miner, it cast it away and said, we don't do that.

Yeah, but somebody that's not an accredited investor who's looking for a public market exposure—

that is public, it's NASDAQ. So it's a, it's a, it's a company on NASDAQ. I think this BitZero is, uh, AIBZ, it's, that's its symbol on NASDAQ. And I'm not recommending the stock to anybody, I'm just saying that's what I did to get exposure to power. And, and I think I want public markets because I want the transparency in the quarterly reporting. But I'm looking for more bid zeros because I think in the next 36 months, the pressure to maintain and grow energy is going to be the winning play in all things digital. And crypto isn't— it's irrelevant to that. Just, you know, doesn't matter.

So like the picks and shovels.

Yeah, but it's more power. Like, where did you get it?

So if somebody hasn't invested in crypto, you say don't jump into the crypto party.

Yeah, I wouldn't. I— you're betting on a bill passing. You're, you're betting on a bill to go through lawmakers' hands, which is always risky because you will never get institutional following until that happens. And if it happens, then you could get a double because you'd have all these people saying, "I'm in the next 1%." But now you've got the Q Day, which we talked about earlier. So 10% of those people that say, "No, no, Nanette, I don't understand quantum computing's risk to breaking the chain." So if you had a quantum computer, you could actually break the blockchain.

So could Bitcoin go to zero?

Well, it would be stolen is what would happen. You know, with quantum computing, you're trying to crack a code so you can steal stuff online. It would definitely correct. I have no idea what would happen when Q-Day comes, but the very fact that we're having this narrative, it might be interesting to figure out how to invest in quantum computing. Now IBM had a 25% correction. It was once considered one of the plays for quantum computing. And last week it corrected 25% when it missed its quarter. So you got a lot of volatility here. That's a big correction, 25%, for a behemoth like IBM.

Listen, I talked about this in one of my books, so it's not a secret, um, but I dated the CEO of one of the big crypto companies, and he had bodyguards with him all the time.. And it was then that I thought, holy shit, somebody could kidnap this one man, steal all the coins. I mean, we can bleep it out. Oh, gross. No, it was, it was, uh, oh, we can, we can bleep it out and don't use it on your—

No, I, I know who that is. That's great. On your, uh, well, how'd that work out for you?

Well, it was cr— it obviously didn't work out, but it was crazy to me to see that. Physical manifestation of the fact that somebody could kidnap a person and wipe out billions of dollars of coins. Just— well, steal billions. Steal billions of dollars.

In fact, that nightmare did play out in a company called WonderFi up in Canada. The CEO was kidnapped and that company was bought by Robinhood just a few weeks ago. He was held ransom in a car until the company paid in crypto to release him. So, you know, that's the nasty side of crypto. It's the really dark side.

It's the really nasty side. It's the thing that scared me for a long time. It didn't scare you until recently because you're a bullish Bitcoin stan until now. I'm transparent.

I tell what I think's the facts. How I— listen, I don't recommend doing what I do. I do it because I'm trying to manage my own risk. Um, but I think on crypto, we just did a long, you know, analysis of the last 12 months. And I think I would say, tell me what's wrong with that analysis, because it's what happened.

All right, let's play our money game. This is different than when you came here last time. So you open the money bag. Yep. You find juicy questions.

Is there anyone that you're financially competitive with? No, I'm competing with myself. I'm trying to become a better investor.

So when you look at Bezos, you don't feel jealous?

No, I mean, I'm, I, you know, I think he's fantastic and I celebrate Elon Musk. I think these guys are geniuses for what they brought, but I've got my own world to deal with. You know, I have to be sharp. For me and my people. So I try and be the best Mr. Wonderful I can be. I mean, I'm not Bezos and I'm not Elon Musk, but I'm doing my thing. That's what I do, you know. And I, and I think that's part of— if you're an investor or you're a manager or you're an entrepreneur, you better worry about yourself. You, you get up every day and you do what you've got to do because that's how you're going to move ahead. Don't be jealous about somebody else.

I feel like there still is kind of like a billionaire dick swinging contest where people— there's always levels of—

well, what I've learned, what you will learn, is there's always somebody richer than you. There's always someone more successful than you. And no matter how successful you are, There's always— keep looking up because someone's out there. But while you're moving up the ladder, you're doing okay for yourself and a lot of other people. So don't be jealous of it. Be happy that you're at— you're where you're at. Like, you know, be— I've said this and I don't think it's controversial. You're not wealthy until you have $5 million in T-bills liquid. You'd be amazed how many people that you think are wealthy don't have $5 million of liquidity. You'd be stunned. Do you? 100%. That I— that's all I focused on until I had it, and I've never touched it ever. I look at it every night and I kiss it. I say, that is my security in case—

what do you mean you kiss it? Like you kiss your app?

Of whatever broke. I have a dashboard, some very sophisticated software that aggregates my entire positions everywhere, including private companies, mark-to-market in case they raise capital overnight. I know exactly where I stand every night.

Kiss your portfolio every night.

I kiss it. Good night, million. I kiss the $5 million because that was very hard to make. That was really hard to make. We doing another question here? Let's do another question.

Okay. So do you have a man crush on Elon or Bezos?

No, I, I, I, I, professional. Are you kidding? Anybody criticize those guys is crazy. Particularly, you know, politicians that go after them because they're billionaire or trillionaires. Look at all the jobs they create. Look at all the taxes they've paid. Look at all the changes they made to society that bettered our lives. I mean, politics is nasty, but I, that whole thing with Ken Griffiths the other day with Mondami. That really pissed me off. That's how—

I mean, but go back and look at the Howard Schultz testimony, that he talked back to lawmakers and he's like, I came from nothing, I grew up in the projects, I did the American dream, I've created so many jobs, like, stop coming after me.

Have you ever Googled your net worth? No, but I get it sent to me all the time, all these estimates of my net worth. What does it say? Well, you can see It's, it's a big range actually. I'll tell you, I'm a little superstitious about this. My mother said something to me once, never boast about your money or one day you won't have any.

It's like a karma thing. I was told always pick up a penny or you're not worth a penny.

Right. I'm so— when people say, um, you know, uh, This— there was a piece that came out last week. Paulina does this profile thing where she walks around with you for, um, 3 days, which, you know, I've never done that with anybody before. So it took a few weeks to figure out how to do that because she's going to get into private meetings with all kinds of, you know, different businesses and stuff. And I said, well, I said, "What happens if they kick you out of the room?" She said, "Never happens. Just, I'm your assistant. You walk in, I've got a paper and a pencil, and I just watch you work for 3 days." Profile, I think it's called. She's done a lot of people. So I took her around New York for 3 days, and she said, "Well, I want you to disclose your net worth." I said, "Not doing it. I think that's very bad karma." But the article's out there with all the estimates in it.

So it's not accurate. It's accurate.

Listen, how could it— how could anybody get access to all of the different positions I have?

How could they ever know? So you never Google it? I, I don't Google myself at all.

It's, uh, I don't understand why that's useful use of time. Think about the challenge of signal-to-noise. You want to get your 3 things done every day, including this time we're having here. This is on my list of 3 things I'm doing today, and I'm getting it done because we said we'd do it. But sitting around Googling yourself sounds like a really perverse— it's almost like pornographic. That's kind of weird. That's a waste of time. Like, you don't know yourself. Like, that's crazy.

I think it's not that you don't know yourself, you want to see what other people are saying.

No, but what I love is when people are, are doing like asking AI about themselves. What the fuck is that? That is the most perverse thing you could do to yourself.

I don't know. I think when you're running a business, you want to know what people are saying about you, if it's accurate.

Just read your social media feed. They'll tell you what they think of you. They hate you. You know, if you're, if you're in the data center business, they sure do. What's the most expensive gift you've bought someone else? Oh, I mean, this is always watches.

What? How much? Oh, to your wife, I assume.

Well, I mean, I give watches to business associates, Mark marking closings of deals. I'm very, very fortunate because I know all the major maisons and brands, so I, you know, recently I went to Rolex and, you know, when Marty Supreme got the 9 nominations, we didn't win anything, but we got 9 Oscar nominations. One of my businesses is collecting cards. We didn't even talk about what's going on in that— Fanatics Fest just happened in New York. It was Unbelievable. Those cards that you could have bought for 50 cents in 1952, some of them are trading for $50 million. You just bought a $12 million one. 13.92, now worth 21.

How is it worth so much so quickly?

So what happens is when you buy a piece like these, the high-end pieces are very liquid. So there's an index called Card Ladder. So what Cardladder does is it's like an exchange. It looks at every trade of every card every 24 hours. So if you have a LeBron, you know, dual logo man, Kobe-LeBron, and there's another iteration of it and it traded, it's going to mark to market that value. So if you look at those cards, you're going to get a pretty good idea. You could argue there's variance, and I'm sure there is. But that card has been a huge win for us, and it's one of many cards. But I decided to wear that card to the Oscars in a Tiffany chain that LVMH— we talked about this a lot. I said, you know, there's a popular cultural thing going on here. Why don't you guys build me a one-of-a-kind chain of diamonds and rubies and white gold? I'll wear it around my neck because Logan Paul had done that. A fight once, and I thought— and I know Logan Paul— I thought, what a great idea. So we built a one-of-a-kind with— it was, um, 2.£5 of white gold, 110 carats of rubies and diamonds, and a $30 million card in it.

In that case, and how many bodyguards did you have for that? We had a ton of bodyguards, but we didn't need any bodyguards inside of the Oscars because it was— that was the time of the threat of the— the war had just started. It took 3 hours to get into that building. There was dogs and scanning and yadda yadda yadda. Once you're in there, nobody had any weapons.

So you were wearing—

I was wearing it. What?

How much was the whole thing worth?

So $32 million on the chain, okay? So I went to Dolce and said, "Look, Dolce, I'm gonna wear this thing. Do you have a one-of-a-kind jacket that would really 'Bring out these rubies and diamonds.' And they said, 'Yeah, we do. It's in Rome.' And they flew it over, and they said, 'Look, we'll just lend it to you.' I said, 'No, I don't wear rental runway. I have to own everything on my body. I have to own it. I'm not gonna be a shill for a rental.' So they said, 'Well, we can't sell it. It's a one of a kind.' I said, 'I bet you for the Oscars you're gonna sell it to me.' And then they went back and forth and back and forth, and they had a crazy price. It was insane what they asked for. I had to sign an NDA at the end for what I bought it for, but I also had to agree to send it back there. It's sitting in a museum right now, but it's mine. Okay, that jacket is mine. It took 6 months or 7 months to stitch all the sequins on it. There's pictures all over the internet of me wearing this thing.

Then I went to Rolex and said, look, Rolex, you know me, what watch is gonna work with this outfit? And I'm gonna walk the red carpet, and you just bought the rights to the Oscars. Your entire executive's gonna be there in LA. Would you ever consider selling me the ruby? Now, in watch culture, there's this mysterious watch that doesn't exist that is a— I mean, you gotta be into watches to understand this. It's rumored that maybe it's out there. It is the grail piece of all watches. It is the white gold ruby and diamond Daytona. Grown men weep just looking at pictures of this mystical beast. Does it exist? And I got on my knees and begged for it. Begged. I said, could you consider, just after all our relationship time together, and, and I've been a great steward for the brand, I've never sold a Rolex, I've talked about the importance of the brand, isn't this the moment to consider if the Myst— if the mystical beast exists, that I would have it on my wrist? And then back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. The The morning here in LA before the Oscars, the phone rings.

They gave me an address and they said, be there. And there it was. We opened the box. The entire Rolex staff had never seen it. All the dealers from around LA came to see it. And for an hour we looked at it, didn't touch it. We just looked at it and said, like, it's real.

It's real. Did you cry? I did.

And I wore it seriously. I was, I was weeping. It was mine. I own it. I have that piece. You know how many people have that piece? Maybe nobody. Like, it's, it's not known.

So what was the full value of what was on your person for the Oscars?

So, más o menos, that watch, maybe it would trade, if it traded, for $1.8 million. I mean, people have talked about it. There's other watches like it, but not that watch that trade around that range. The jacket, let's call that, although the NBA thing, just under a million.

So you're 35 mil? Yeah, walking around with 35 mil.

Now I'm celebrating art when I'm doing that. I think it's not about the money. It's the impossibility of getting those together for that 3 hours that made it so magical. Now they'll never be together again. They're off in vaults all over the place, and that watch, the chance I wear that again outside is friggin' zero. Like, you know, it's— and anyways, that's a hell of a story, but for me, I was really motivated by that. It's not— but I didn't want to— people say, oh, what an asshole, he's wearing all this is wealth. No, I'm not. I'm wearing art. That's what that is.

With collectibles, is there step-up in basis when you pass it down? So I'm assuming you're passing this stuff down to your kids.

Yeah, you got a very good point here about this. Um, it's an unregulated market, but when we looked at the data— this, you're bringing up a very good point here, because if you go back to, uh, '58 and you look at what happened with Picasso's while he was alive, the basis then was 1,000 French francs for, you know, a Picasso oil. That's what you bought it for. That painting sells for $58 million right now. And if it stayed in the family, how do you tax it? And I think that's what the regulator is going to start to think about, because this year alone Walmart will sell $1.5 billion worth of collectible cards. Target, $1.1 billion. The entire market's going to be over $5 billion just for Fanatics.

I mean, I'm really fascinated by the upstream gifting and the upstream basis planning, which I think is really interesting. Unfortunately, you could not do this. It would be gifting to your parents if they're still alive, and then when they pass, you would get that step up or it would go down to your kids.

Yeah, but I think what's going to happen to that market is it will be If the law passes with that— remember, tokenization is in that Clarity Act. Remember that? I think you could tokenize these assets and keep these cards in vaults forever. I think that's what's going to happen because they can't be in light. They're autographs, so they have to be in a Utah vault somewhere, in dry vault. Yeah.

And over a certain amount, you also have to get it independently authenticated.

Tokenization is liquid. You could, you could own the card or you could sell half of it off in a token. I think that's where we're going. I'm fascinated by the market because of how broad it is. It's called the hobby, and I had no idea that pretty well every father in America is into it. You find that out. But I brought these cards on cable television. People freak out. They bring their kids. The whole class comes in, security guards everywhere, and we bring the card out and we just take pictures with it. Kids love cards. They know it. Everything you need to know as a young entrepreneur, you learn trading cards. When to invest, when to hold them, when to fold them, what to trade, you know, betting on rookies in their first year. Are this a winner, loser? Oh no, Tani. Imagine bought an Ohtani, um, rookie, what that's worth today, $3 million. So, all right, another one. Other than your spouse, who would you call to bail you out of jail?

That's a good question.

I don't think I'd call my spouse. She'd leave me in jail. Like the I have so many lawyers. Um, you know what I've learned— any of the Sharks? I bet you Cuban would do it.

Cuban would bail you out?

Yeah, yeah, he'd bail me out. I believe that. Yeah, we have a crazy relationship. I got it. I'm trying to get him back on the show.

Who wouldn't bail you out?

Um, Barbara? She'd probably bail me out too. I think the Sharks have a weird You know, I always say about Barbara, the only reason she gets to LA is I buy her a new broom every year. I just can't help myself saying that. It's too much fun. But we have such a long history together. So many things have happened to us and our families. It's been 18 years. You know that thing about Friends and all that, that show for a while? That was nothing compared to how long we've been on. It's insane. Like, 18 years. Practically no shows get that. Not of this genre of like, you know, and I think the crazy thing is having basically almost finished this season, it's the best season we ever shot. It, it's the best season we've ever shot. The products this season, some of them captured that early AI wave. And so the other thing that I would tell you about, and I believe that Shark Tank is really, it's 2 years ahead of the market in terms of what products can be on the market. Here's something to think about. You'll find this fascinating. Dramatic pause.

The fastest growth companies on Shark Tank in terms of sales growth were companies that created foods with zero preservatives, zero sugars, zero additives, and they were really expensive, but they tasted good as opposed to shit. It wasn't the fake meat stuff anymore full of salt.

No poo-poo.

It was amazing what has been created.

It's like the Erawan effect.

Yeah, yeah, I know, you're right. But all of a sudden, a new generation that never cared about what they put in their mouth cares, like really cares. And so health is wealth, we're taking it full circle. Well, I mean, we're talking about people 28 years old. Yeah, you know, so the That was a really interesting trend, and there was a lot of those, including ice creams, like frozen foods and stuff that were zero additives, like nothing, and tasted fantastic. Really hard to make. So I think I answered that one too, Julie.

I'll call you if I get— Which what? Thrown in the slammer. I'm going to call you.

Yeah, well, will you leave me there? Yeah, I'd leave you for there. You'd learn something in there. I, I did a show called Redemption where I did spend two nights in jail.

You want to bail me out? I'm joking.

Of course I'll bail you out. Try and stay out of jail. I've been to jail for that show, and I spent— I was booked, and the people that put me there did not know I was on a show, and I was scared shitless, and it is nasty. It is nasty. You don't sleep very well.

Like, I wouldn't imagine.

You know, you know why most people are in jail? Two reasons: drugs and alcohol. When you see the people coming in, it's mostly drugs and alcohol.

I would love a good story, like, you know, kidnapping an alpaca or something across state lines.

Okay, this is a good one. Has money ever ruined one of your relationships? Yes, yes. Which relationship? I'm trying to remember which one was— there's been a few, but this was a business relationship of somebody that I formed a company with, and we fell out of sync about who was worth what and why. And so money can really destroy relationships. In the context of marriage, though, When I wrote that first book, Men, Women, and Money, and I did the research with divorce lawyers, it turns out that the majority of marriages that fall apart between 5 and 7 years are from financial stress, not infidelity. Most marriages—

or financial infidelity, which is a real thing.

Yeah, well, that's why I invested in Whole Prenup. She's a Shark Tank deal and she's doing very, very well. We provide prenups for women online. Every woman should get a prenup. Every—

yeah, we have a partnership with them.

Big fan. Yeah, well, and we together offered Katy Perry a free prenup because every— she needs one. She's going to marry Justin Trudeau and everything he touches goes to zero. So I think she can pay for her own prenup. It was a joke, but it got a lot of press.

But also, what's, what's crazy is that the more famous you get and the richer you get, the more free shit you get.

It is true. Is that weird? I get, I get a lot of stuff. I get a lot of watches. I get probably 3 or 4 a week. There's a lot of new makers, young watchmakers, and I will wear one that I like and I will talk about it. But I get a lot of stuff I don't like, and I don't want to be obligated to anything, to anybody. So I prefer not to get free stuff. I just, you know, I can afford to buy it and use it myself. And so it's sort of a It's a debate. All those Hollywood bags, you know, you go to the Oscars, something, you walk out of there with all this stuff.

What do you do with the stuff?

Um, uh, you know, I, I, I give it to the, the driver I was with all day because that guy worked very hard.

I want to do a reality show where the driver is The Bachelor. Yeah, undercover Bachelor.

What do you think? Uh, you know What I've learned about reality shows—

when I was at CNBC, they asked the driver when they brought in anchors for auditions, how did, how did they treat you?

Yes, it's true. It is true. Um, think about, you know, you brought up a great topic. Think about how much television has changed since you were there, how different it is today, and how, how television is merged with Television produces content for social media. That's what it does. And it reaches its eyeballs on social media.

Well, as you're thinking through Shark Tank segments, I'm sure that's top of mind. What's going to resonate on social media?

Not only is it top of mind— How many followers do they have? Yeah, so the new— our new strategy on Shark Tank is we have merged our social media of the show with those streams of the sharks. We have a massive collective of followers, and so we coordinate, our teams coordinate, we coordinate with the network, we coordinate with, you know, the actual entrepreneur. It's like a ballet, and it's working. I mean, it's, you know, my kids see my stuff. They don't have TV. They, you know.

Last question. I think I know it's the best one.

Oh, is that right? Save the best for last.

You know the Kill Mary Fuck game? Yeah. All right, so we're doing the PC version. Yeah, where it's Kill Mary Fire. We're making the business version. Nancy Pelosi, Elizabeth Holmes, Cathie Wood.

Well, I think it's a form of ranking, isn't it really? Right. So I— but I have to tell you, I know Cathie Wood, and so I very much respect her as an investor. And we do have a lot of narrative, particularly about crypto and things like that. So She's at the top of the pecking order.

So you'd marry her? Yeah, probably. Obviously you have an amazing marriage already.

Yeah, yeah, I get it. Linda's gonna put up with this bullshit for a minute here. I have a lot of respect for Nancy Pelosi because I met her years ago. The amount of tenacity she has, the amount of just constant barrage of abuse she takes from the other side, all politicians, is extraordinary. I mean, she is like— except her portfolio is insane.

She must be the greatest stock picker.

Yeah, well, there's a lot of speculation about that. Elizabeth Holmes is a fascinating story, isn't it? Because I think she got caught in a rabbit hole. At some point she knew, oh, fuck, This doesn't work. But I've— and rather than just say, look everybody, we lost our dough, which is really hard to do. You think you can do it, it's not easy. You try and squirm out of it, and she got caught. She's— and I feel sorry for her, she's in prison right now with the children outside. I mean, that's tough, you know, that's really tough.

I mean, I don't know that personally, but yes, I think, you know, I'm not condoning what she did by any stretch of the imagination, but I know that within that space entrepreneurs are, you know, she's one deal or one funding away from it being okay. Yeah.

You take a lot of risk, um, when you strike out on your own. People don't consider that risk, but what do you have to do to be successful as an entrepreneur? You really have to work like insane amount of time, but also be lucky.

So you would fire her? Or you would kill her?

Who would you kill? I guess I'd have to kill Elizabeth Holmes. I feel bad about that, you know, but I have too much respect for Nancy Pelosi. I don't agree with any of her policy, none, but I've been on that side of politics. I have never seen the dark side until I did it myself. Here's the difference. Celebrity, which I now live with, people dislike you or they like you. A lot of people don't like me because they think I'm the mean shark and all that stuff. When you become a politician, 50% of the population hates you and some of them want to kill you. I've experienced that. That's a whole different— You've had death threats? Oh, like, yes! But that was when I was running for leadership of the Conservative Party in Canada. I've never been threatened before, legitimate threats, you know, and I thought, this is fucking crazy, like this is something else that— and this happens to all politicians. It's a thankless job from that context, you know, bullets are flying at them, we're in a very contentious time now. These— I've had death threats on these data center projects, and my family's had them.

And in one case, the FBI went to the woman and, um, because we called the DOJ and said, this looks credible, this is too crazy, it's against my daughter. She was freaking out. So they went to see this woman, and, um, I don't think she'll be making any threats. There's something very sobering about a bunch of SUVs with the sirens on coming to your house, I think. Like, that's what happened to her. So the FBI does their job, and I'm thankful for law enforcement, and I thank them, and it did stop that particular situation. But I think, you know, in full circle, the way we're going to get out of this mess on all data centers in America is get the facts out. The industry itself has done a very poor job, and I'm part of that, explaining how these things work.

But does this stuff scare you? Does the hate scare you?

Yeah, but you know, I've talked to the other guys that do this, that data center development is actually real estate. That's what it is. This reminds me very much of what we used to do in climate-controlled storage for pharmaceutical companies. We'd build these buildings and we'd have to lease them, or we'd have to buy the land and build them and then lease them. We needed power, a lot less obviously. We needed zoning, all of it. And there's always some element of a community that's against it for reasons maybe they don't even know.

They just are against it. Okay, I want to have a truce. Yeah, last time you came on the show, we had a fight that I've been thinking a lot about.

You're so wonderful, I forget what we're fighting about.

No, no, you're wonderful. Uh, you say people who make $70,000 and buy $28 lunches are—

finish this sentence. Crazy. And boy, have I taken shit for that. I'm not crazy.

I don't understand. You've said they're stupid.

I don't want to call people stupid. I want to point something out. Why do that when you can invest it in yourself? You don't need to spend $28 to get 60 grams of protein for lunch. You don't have to do that. You can, you can cook a chicken at home and you can bring it with you and eat it. In a sandwich.

So I'm just going to say you can't budget your way into wealth and that everybody needs small indulgences.

That's ridiculous. Then no, no, I don't, I don't agree with you. I'm trying to— Shame on you.

Shame on you.

No, shame on you.

I will not be shamed for eating a delicious sandwich that I can afford. And here's why. I would like to propose a truce index, a benchmark that people can follow. You Can you buy a $28 sandwich if you have no consumer debt? A, B, have participated in matches for any retirement plans from your company, have recurring investments, have an emergency fund. If you've done those items, can you buy a sandwich?

Are you still just making $70,000 a year?

Yeah, but you've had no credit card balance. So, you know, at north of 20%, obviously you're paying more in interest than lunch. I will give you that. But if you're doing all the responsible items with your credit card debt, your emergency fund, your employer match, your recurring investment—

okay, honey bunny, let me answer the question. All right, is there anything you can buy for $28 that tastes as good as 28 years of compounding at 10%?

Yeah, nothing, nothing tastes as good as compounding feels for sure. But why can't you do both?

Can I buy $28? Honey bunny, I just won that fight.

And no, you didn't. I, I'm buying my sandwich and I'm investing.

Click here to vote. Kevin O'Leary, I— click here to vote. You can't find anything that tastes as good as compounding that $28 for maybe 30 years. Depends when you're starting at the market rates, 8 to 10%. Nothing tastes that good. Nothing. And so the point is, I'm right, you're wrong. It's that simple.

It's just not true. I think you can— if you've done that checklist, which I think is a responsible checklist, then you can buy the sandwich. You're already investing. You've invested the $28 in the market at compounding rates, 8 to 10% over time, and you are satiated.

And I just don't want you to waste your money.

Your small indulgences. I don't want you to waste your money. Track— it keeps you from binging later on. You can vote here.

It is not worth spending $28 for lunch. I still say that. I don't care how many million more people text me about that. I am right. You should not do that. You shouldn't— look, no, you can't spend $5 on coffee when you're making $70,000. That is stupid. I'm not saying you're stupid. That act is stupid. It's 18 cents to make a coffee at home, okay? Put it in your thermos.

Yeah, but why do you work so hard in life? To enjoy your life.

You're enjoying your life listening to what I'm telling you to do because you're going to be much better off later in life. I'm protecting you from yourself. Thank you very much. That's exactly—

I think there has to be a stupidity threshold. You cannot just blanketly say don't buy a sandwich, don't buy a fancy salad, don't buy a lobster.

You just abused me like you are right now. Bernie Sanders last week. Oh my God. I mean, Bernie, throw me a bone, for crying out loud. I mean, don't ever. That's what he did. Every— listen, even my own daughter and son said, Dad, Bernie is abusing you now. Like, you gotta stop with the $28 lunch. I said, guys, you know I'm right. I mean, this is crazy. I don't even spend $28 on lunch. I think that's stupid. What do you mean? Look, look, if I'm just gonna go into town to do a hit on TV, I think— this is what I believe— I prepare something really healthy without any salt in it, without any crap that I don't want to eat, and I'll just wrap that up and stick it in my bag, and I'll eat that. And, you know, I feel better that I've eaten something good for me. It cost me next to nothing. And I— listen, I'll tell you, I'm trying to get 80 to 100 grams of protein a day.

Yeah, but that's not how you made your wealth, Kevin.

Wealth is health. Health is wealth.

You did not budget. You did not wrap a sandwich your way into being a millionaire, billionaire, whatever.

I'm saying if you're only making 70 grand, you've got to figure out a way to save 20% of that and let it compound. So you have $1.5 million in the bank after you finish. But I want to just point something else around the health factor. I eat a chicken a day because I'm having a hard time getting to 100 grams of protein. I don't want fake protein.

How much is that chicken?

Maybe I get 68 grams out of that.

How many dollars is that chicken?

Uh, $5.99 to $13. But that's a whole, that's 2 meals. So I have for breakfast, you may find this.

Yeah, but you're traveling right now. I, you're probably eating out. I would like to see what it is.

As a matter of fact, when I leave here, I'm getting on the plane. There's going to be 2 avocados carved in half. Nothing— no, no, no, no. What kind of plane is it? Uh, this one is a, uh, Citation X. Okay, I rest my case. Goodbye. But the point is, what I'm going to eat on it is going to be half a chicken and, and a full avocado.

Perfect. So you're spending $13 on a chicken and $30,000 to get I couldn't do what I do without a plane.

I mean, people say I spend millions of dollars traveling, but I go to 3 to 5 cities a day. So in this, I have done this, you know, what are we today, Tuesday? Like, I've already been to 1, 2, 3, I've been to 5 cities since I left to come here. So I had to get to these places. How am I going to do it? You know, so I get criticized a lot. But by the way, I don't buy planes anymore. It's like boats, you know that old thing? I basically have a network of planes and I lease. If I'm alone, I don't need a big plane, I just need a fast one. I mean, you're never gonna win the private plane fight, okay? I get it. But I can't do what I do without a plane.

I'm not actually fighting you on that one.

Well, you seem to be.

You're looking for a fight. I started this conversation by asking for a truce. Oh, it didn't work. I came to you with an olive branch.

It didn't work, no. It definitely didn't work. It's just tragedy.

All right. Let's go back to the thing we can agree on. Time is your most valuable asset. I am so grateful that you spent your time with us today. We end all of our episodes— I'm honored. I'm honored. —by asking our guests for one final tip that listeners can take straight to the bank.

Well, I think what I've learned, um, is the most important thing in life and investing— this is Money News Network. That's why we're here. Okay. Is the concept of diversification. It has really saved my hiney in the last couple of years. You know, I could have gotten much deeper into crypto. Didn't happen. I forced the discipline at 20% as the sector. Remember that? Remember all that? And then I trimmed those positions. I'm not just talking crypto, other things that I was involved in. I said, this is too much of my net worth. I'm going to make a change. And I'm going to— and then the market did crazy stuff. And because I sold some stuff, put it into other stuff, I've enjoyed a much better outcome. Because I— you know what stops you from being diversified? Greed. Greed. You always think, I'm so right, I'm going to bet the farm on this. Thing, and you're never right because karma comes and spanks you like a baby seal. That's what happens. That's exactly what happens. So diversification, that's it.