Transcript of Jennie Garth on Negotiation Lessons From 90210 and Habits That Are Quietly Costing You New

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If you're a '90s kid like me, you will definitely recognize today's guest from a 90210 poster you probably had on your bedroom wall. When she was just a teenager, Jenny Garth was cast in the show that defined a decade of television. And some of the lessons from her character, Kelly Taylor, have stuck with her. So much so that her new memoir, I Choose Me, comes from one of the most iconic moments on the show. Today, Jenny and I talk about how to talk to your spouse about money, how negative self-talk impacts your kids. And if you have ever felt like you needed to quiet your own ambition to keep other people comfortable, she shares the cure. I'm Nicole Lapin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some Money Rehab. Well, I'm so excited to welcome you, Jenni Garth, to Money Rehab.

I'm so happy to be here. I need to be rehabbed. Nicole, help me out.

I got you, sister. Well, I was on your show about a year ago, which was crazy because I would really like a redo.

I know you were.

I was a mess.

You had to have been out of your mind.

I was like in diapers with my daughter still postpartum. You remember those days? Uh, my house, my studio burned down, everything. And then I was like, but I have to go on Jenny's. How could I say no? And so like I dug deep.

Could you have done it another time?

Oh my God.

So I'm coming back.

Okay. I, I couldn't believe when I found out that you were going through all that. And your house had just burned down. I, I don't know how you even showed up.

Thank you. I showed up for you because you're amazing. And it was so fun to have the conversation. Obviously you were in this chair, and so I wanted to ask you so many more follow-up questions, but I was like, duh, this is not my show. So now it's my turn. Yeah, it's your turn. Um, but when we were talking, you were saying how you didn't grow up with money and you always had this like scarcity mentality about money. Take me back to the beginning. Like, what was your early relationship with your parents? How did they talk or not talk about money?

There was no talk about money. Um, the only thing I remember about money was that I used to get a job on the farmer's land surrounding our farm, and I would get paid, you know, 25 cents an hour to pull weeds out of his soybean fields and the cornfields. And I would walk— it's called walk the beans. I would walk the beans for $0.25 an hour. And I was elated to have like $5 or something at the end of the day or whatever, a couple weeks that I could go buy candy with and not have to like ask my mom for money.

And you made it so big from, from the beans to the big screen, the small screen, all the screens. You know, you were so young at the time when you started making real money, like much more than $0.25.

I would Yes, yes, hopefully.

Did that scarcity mentality go away at that point, like when you had money, or did it still stick around?

I just didn't understand money at all. It was never discussed, and, um, I, I had no idea what it was or why you needed it or how to handle it. And I learned that pretty quickly when I landed in Hollywood. You know, we were paying for our apartment at first, and then once, you know, I got a job and money started coming in consistently I bought a, my first house at, I think 16, 17, 18 years old. Can't remember exactly, but, and then that's when like the big girl responsibilities settled in and the pressure of like, oh, okay, so I have to have X amount every month or I don't get to have this house, you know? And so I quickly learned about, you know, what it, what it would take on my end to, sort of accommodate a comfortable lifestyle. And that changed over the years as I became a mom and all of that. But I got, uh, I got a crash course in feeling the responsibility and the sort of the burden of, uh, the pressure, I guess, of money and money management. But at the same time, I had other people doing it, and so they were handling all the details, all the nitty-gritty of managing it.

I had zero idea what was happening with my money.

Yeah, you told me that, uh, nobody thought you needed to know about your finances, which is really scary because that's when people get taken advantage of.

Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure I did at some point along the way. There were some moments that I was unaware of or decisions that were made on me my behalf that probably didn't benefit me first and foremost, even as a fiduciary with a fiduciary in place. But I'm not gonna look back. I'm only gonna look forward. I felt really things like my money is in a good place right now as far as, you know, I'm making money and I'm spending, you know, a little less than I'm making. So it's, things are good for the moment and I have a whole new team on it. So But I did decide around 50 that, you know, my husband was urging me, get a handle on your money. You need to know more and more and more. And I said, okay, yeah. So I really did try to learn some things, but it honestly, it's like a different language for my brain. Totally. Are you used to hearing that?

I, I figured that out the hard way. I started when I was 18 on the floor of the stock exchange, and I was like, this actually sounds just like Japanese to me. And so I realized, yeah, that money is a language just like anything else. And when you don't speak the language, which is like, I don't get it, I don't understand it, but then you start immersing yourself in it and you're like, oh, okay, you know, if I went to Japan and I didn't speak Japanese, I'd be really confused. If I went to Wall Street, I didn't speak the language of money, I'd be really confused until you speak it. And then you're like, duh, I obviously— that's—

yeah, I think it was like, at first I didn't think and no one else thought I needed to speak the language. I needed to focus on the language that I did speak, which was making the money. And then I started to fake that I knew the language. Oh, so I would be in money meetings and they would be talking, speaking the language of which I had no idea, the acronyms. And I would say, yes, okay, um, okay, yeah, that sounds great, you know, really just faking it. And then I came to the place now where I know a little bit more and I'm able to say, hey, hold on, can you just break that down for me a little bit more so I can really understand what you're saying? And but I think before I just felt too scared to do that, or like they would treat me, you know, like, oh, this girl knows nothing about money, poor girl, what, you know.

Yeah, not rich woman, not poor girl. Like, you were— they were there because of you.

Yeah, it was weird being that young and having all of that happening in, in the realm of the money world.

Yeah. And smiling and nodding is, you know, what a lot of women do and why we do what we do to help open up this dialog about money. But I imagine when you were so young, there wasn't also a lot of talk amongst your colleagues or peers. Like, were people on set talking about what they made, or was that part of even the—

No, no. Everybody was sort of tight-lipped about their personal finances and what salaries they were making. And they, for, for many years on the 10-year run, that was the kind of balance that was happening until at one point, I think 3 or 4 of us really got together and said, let's go in as a team where there's more strength in the, in our unity and renegotiated some things like that. But for the, for the most of the time, it was very, Everybody did their own thing and nobody wanted to know anything about money from, you know, because what I didn't want to find out if I'm making— and in fact, I was making less than the other people on the show. And then there came a point where I was making more than other people on the show. And that's a very tender situation to talk to your castmates, your, you know, brothers and sisters, basically. And that letting people— getting people uncomfortable around that just didn't seem worth it.

But then it became worth it when you guys came together finally. So what do you think changed between, like, having those conversations be uncomfortable to turning into something really empowering where you could band together and advocate?

I wish it had happened sooner. I mean, I know that when, uh, you know, the big news about the Friends cast coming together and renegotiating as favored nations. That really was beneficial for them and made the even, you know, the playing field even because it is, it should be that we're all there doing our jobs together. And if it weren't for one of us or the other, it wouldn't work. I think we were just a little too late to that game and the sort of hierarchy system was already the like different levels of paychecks was already established. So we never got that equality across the board. And that was always a source of, you know, a little bit of a sore subject.

Do you think that was a sign of the times? Like, do you think if you did that today it would be different?

You know, I'd like to say yes, but I still think that happens. I think the number one on the call sheet gets X amount of dollars and then it goes down from there unless they go in and stand unified. Which we really didn't know that that was an option back in the '90s. And now we do. So I wonder what it would look like for an ensemble to go in from the beginning. But it's scary because we are all worried about our own money issues. Like, we all of us, you know, think about money and worry about money. And so we want to cover our own asses, you know. And so it would, it would take a special group of people that would commit to doing that. And I think it would would absolutely be beneficial. But unfortunately, it's still— women are getting paid less than men still in this industry, and it's, it's really hard to break those norms.

I mean, 90210 obviously changed your life. You said you bought a house when you're so young that your parents also moved into, uh, and they called you the Hollywood daughter. That in your book you talk about feeling uncomfortable about that with your 6 other siblings. How did you navigate that uncomfortability or like trying to put yourself down?

Well, I again had no idea what I was doing, and no one in my family had ever gone to Hollywood. There was no real money, there was no wealth in my family. So I, I don't know how I'm still sitting here, honestly, like after just really not having any background or training or teaching about how to deal with it. But I did absolutely feel at times like, because I was from a big family and I was already the baby in the family, I felt like I got spoiled. And my sisters definitely made it, verbalized it, that they felt like I was spoiled. And we all kind of embraced it and like joked around about it. No, she's the baby of the family, she's so spoiled. But spoiled in just the respect of More lenience. I think I even see that with my girls now. Like my first daughter was raised differently than my third daughter, just because you change as a parent, times change. So of course the older kids in the family are gonna have their, you know, comments about how the baby's being raised.

Yeah.

But I did definitely feel like I just wanted to have the energy feel the same in my family amongst my siblings. For sure, even cousins. I didn't want to be treated special, more special than I already was as the baby. Like, I, I'm very uncomfortable being in the spotlight when others are in my family or watching from the side. It just, it's a weird thing I have. Like, I don't want to outshine people or seem as if I'm any better than my siblings, you know. And I've always just felt like I need to keep that— I can keep that at bay, you know.

But that— but you are shiny, and you are shining through light. Have you heard of tall poppy syndrome?

No, please tell me.

Like, you cut yourself down to make everybody else sort of feel more comfortable, or high-achieving people sort of like put themselves down to match the norm. You know, I see women, I see myself do that a lot.

Wait, are we the tall poppies? Yeah.

And then we like cut down to the rest of the poppies.

We get pruned.

Just be the tall, shiny poppy.

Okay, I like that. I'm going to think of that because I'm really working on that and I have done a lot of work on it because I was in some therapy session at some point And I remember them saying to me, Jenny, it's okay to shine. Like, that's why you're here.

Yeah.

And I— it kind of opened up things for me because I've always felt comfortable— uncomfortable shining because of the way other people might feel in the wake of it.

I felt the same way until recently. We had a behavioral scientist on and he told me to stop it because it makes him feel bad. Like when he gave me a compliment, I'd be like, oh no, you know, yes, whatever, brush it off. And then he's like, but it makes the giver of the compliment feel bad, like that they're stupid or wrong, or, you know, if they think you're so smart or so pretty and you're like, no, I'm not, then, you know, you wouldn't want that perception, right? And so it flipped how I thought about the self-deprecation that I default to, or that just receiving compliments, or just shrinking. Yeah, you know, shrinking yourself to, to make others feel better might actually have like an unintended side effect that I did a reverse.

Uh-huh. That's so interesting. I like thinking about it that way.

So through a bunch of therapy— you and me both— um, trying to work on that, it sounds like you've tried to flip your mindset and like stand in that light.

Now, my age, being 54, I, I feel like confident stepping into this sort of divine energy, female empowered energy. I feel very much more comfortable in that than I ever have. And no, I'm not afraid of the impact that I I have on people or don't have on people. Like, I'm, I'm more comfortable in who I am now. So that has an impact in, in every aspect— business, family, home life, friendships. You know, I come to the table with much more, much more of an ability to listen and be present instead of worrying about all those things in my head that I've spent so many years trying to ignore. But they've been you know, reverberating.

Yeah, yeah, uh, that's the greatest hits. Like, I always call them like the ruminations. Like, oh, I see you, I see you coming back.

And it's weird when you— like, you— we think we're the only one that has this problem, these uncontrolled negative thoughts that break, break ourselves down or keep ourselves in a certain box or keep ourselves small. Because we're filling ourselves with fear by listening to that voice. And you— but fear is just false evidence appearing real.

Say it one more time.

Fear is false evidence appearing real. When it comes to the fear we hear in our minds, the fear we feed ourselves, it's not coming from anybody else. I mean, there is fear. Fear is a good emotion to have.

Yeah, but like when you're running from a bear, right?

Fear There's certain times when you need to really listen to the fear, but when it comes to like negative self-talk, it's false. It is actually untrue, but our minds are so convincing and we just believe them because, oh, well, you've never steered me wrong before. You've kept me safe and here I am. But when you really wanna break free of those limiting beliefs, that's when you have to really just face that fear and tell it no thank you.

Well, I can even feel, and it's only been a year, that like mean Jenny has kind of taken a seat. Because when we were talking, you had a lot of negative self-talk about money. Like, not a little, a lot.

No, because you know what, what happened? I've gone through a couple of different phases. Like, when I started out not knowing anything about money, I never even thought about it. It'll come, it'll go, who cares, whatever. I'm young and living my life. Then I started to get more scarce, more of that scarcity mindset of I'm responsible for these 3 girls and the mortgage and all the people that work for me. And I started to be like, oh, I better hold on to things. And what if I'm not going to make enough money to buy them that again? You know, I started to really get more tight, more worried about my finances. And then the latest is that I've gone back to the original mindset because that felt much better for me and it actually brought more money in.

Hmm.

Like when you start squeezing it, squeezing the reins and pulling back and attaching to like, what if? And oh no, that's when the flow stops. And I, and I, I know that sounds like, okay, woo woo, LA, whatever, but It's honestly the truth for me. And now that I am back to, yes, I am managing my money well now. I'm involved in all the conversations. I'm running a business now and having success in that and really working with the numbers on, on that on a daily basis. Like, but still not worrying about it, knowing that it'll come and it will go just as it's supposed to.

It's so funny that you say the, the woo woo LA part because I tend to not be super woo woo, but I, you know, want to understand all viewpoints. I think when it comes to money, there really is energy in money. And so when you hoard it and like hold it really tight, it doesn't come back around, right? And so I, I believe that there is a lot of— as woo-woo as it does sound— there's a lot of energy in money and the way that it moves.

It's a powerful energy.

Do you think some of the negative self-talk came from other people though? Because you've said that other people viewed you as being pound foolish, Pennywise. And so maybe you took that on, or like that.

Oh, for sure.

That was— you were so empathetic that you like internalized that.

Yeah, I, I took on the, oh, you're pretty, you don't need to worry about it. I took on the— yeah, what's the one? The Pennywise, pound foolish, right? I, I took that on when I heard that from someone. I also took on messages of like, you're too emotional, like, you, this isn't healthy, you know? And I also just decided to not believe that anymore. It's very hard when you're receiving messages, messages from people in your life that you trust and they have a big impact on you. But once you kind of step out of that mindset and out of that experience of being told those things about yourself, you're able to kind of defy those things, look at them, examine them, and think, is that absolutely true? Actually, no, it's really not.

Our last conversation, you wanted me to sign books for your daughters too. In what sense do you think being a mom and them seeing everything that you do— like, I even— my daughter's 1, and so she copies everything I do. How do you think that impacts, like, your self-talk around money? Because they— even if you try to hide it I feel like they feel it or they know, and that's how they learn.

Well, it's definitely different. One of my daughters is completely on her own, independent in every aspect, actually kind of two of them. And then my 19-year-old is in college and, you know, still comes to me for money all the time. And we talk about like, figure out what your priorities are and focus on, you know, think about your monthly budget. And I'm really trying to, to, to set her up for success. Although I'm very weak when it comes to saying no to, you know, she wants to get her nails done or whatever. She knows her, her father's probably not gonna say, oh sure, here's some money for that. Cuz he just doesn't get it. And so I'm the one that's usually, you know, Venmoing, Apple Paying all day long with that one, but still trying to teach her and trying to have her get a part-time job. So, she can feel that independence, cuz it's very important. I remember before I was an actress, I had, you know, starting with walking the bean fields, I worked as a secretary in a real estate office. I worked as a waitress in a restaurant. And that building of that independent mindset of like, I can take care of myself if, if I need to, is such an important thing for women.

To feel. Yeah.

And I think just, well, teach me how to be a girl mom if you can.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It never stops. You said that she's always watching you and yeah. Yeah. They do that.

She's just like, she's 15 months old and I go, and she goes, right? And then you just extrapolate that as they grow.

Yeah.

They watch you spending or hoarding or hiding purchases or, you know, whatever else. And then that, becomes their habit. And so I saw something recently, probably on Instagram, it was like a meme that was like, you would kill for your kids or die for your kids in a lot of senses, but would you live for them or would you change your habits for them?

That's interesting.

I was like, oh, that hit.

Yeah, I've never been one to spend my money frivolously on fancy handbags or high-end label clothing. I'm those things just have never been important to me. I think because I've always realized that I am the cornerstone of what's holding this household up and I don't need certain things, you know, I just don't need that. And I would rather save that money. I spend my money when it comes to our home and keeping it nice and, you know, up to date and all those things. I'm much more prone to spending my money on like, some plants, some landscaping, or— it's so expensive though. There's a big sales happening right now though, people. Spring, spring sales for plants, just so you know.

It's your plants, plant lovers. But I do want to thank you because when I was on your show, you asked me for a recommendation for a financial advisor, wealth management, because that's naturally like the number one question that you would ask when we're talking about this stuff, and you wanted to help your audience understand how they could get help. Uh, the first step to any recovery is admitting you have a problem, especially around own wealth, and I gave a recommendation, but I went back and that recommendation didn't feel right to me. So I asked your producers to take that part out, but it actually inspired me to start my own advisory firm. I love my own wealth management, Private Wealth Collective, because the, the recommendation I gave you just like didn't sit well in my heart. It wasn't the way I wanted to do business. It felt really jargony and gatekeeping, very male and like intimidating in a way that when I was first starting out would have made me too scared to join the conversation. So I wanted to do it differently. And that is so exciting by our conversation.

Oh my gosh. What's it called?

What's your private wealth collective?

Private wealth.

Tell the girls. I will bring them over.

No, it's so true because no. Oh my gosh. Okay. When I have a money management meeting, my— the 3 men come over in suits, and I'm always like, oh, okay guys, thanks for dressing up. I'm sitting here in my jeans. Um, but they do— it's intimidating. But I don't let it intimidate me anymore because for so many years agents would come to the sets like periodically to visit their clients or whatever, and we would go, oh, the suits are here. And so, yeah. And so now whenever I see a man in a suit, it just kind of makes me laugh. I don't know why, but there's something about it, such a posturing situation. Negotiation happening, um, that I, I just kind of let it go now. But it is intimidating when 3 suits are sitting across from you saying words you really don't understand fully and showing you charts and all the numbers and the, the graphs and the things. It's a lot.

But like, you are so crazy smart, Jenny, and you have built so much money and wealth and career. And I have seen in your memoir, you have lived many lives. You have figured out so many harder things. Than whatever is on those charts.

I know you—

and that's the thing, you really have. Like, it's true. I know that like it feels that way because it can be intimidating, but damn, you have just seen so much more and been through so much more.

Yeah, so much harder. I feel, I feel like a definite shift in my mindset about being a businesswoman now and being just confident in that. And if I don't understand something, I'll ask a question. Yeah.

Because you're like, I'm a smart person.

If I don't get it, tell me, say it in a different way that I can. Yeah. Obsessed.

I'm so glad. You also asked me when was the right time to start talking about money in your relationship. Yes. When did you and your husband Dave start talking about money?

It's interesting. We come from very different backgrounds as far as our relationships with money. I am—

Is he like an abundance guy?

He is a make it, spend it guy. Oh, he is a live your life guy. You know, he's a put it on the credit card guy.

Oh.

And I am not like that as much. It was so interesting because when we got together, that was when, like right in the middle of my like starting to grip again because I would see him being so free with his money and didn't feel right to me. So I started to really hold my money closer. We've never joined our finances. We have, you know, we spend equally on things and we, we just, we, we still have things separate. And I don't know when I'll feel comfortable doing that joint thing, or if I ever will, honestly, because I've worked so on my own since the very beginning, you know. I, I love providing for people. I love treating people. So we divvy up things in our house on a level that makes sense for each of our incomes, and there's no, you know, worries about it.

So like one person pays for this bill, one person pays for that? Like, who pays when you guys go out to dinner?

We alternate usually, or we have a— we have one card that's both of our cards that we kind use for when we're together and we both pay into that. So I don't, I honestly don't think about it. Like whenever I, whenever I go to dinner with anyone, I accept the bill. Like on, it's my default because that's the way it's always been. And I, when I do go to dinner with somebody, even him, and they take the, the bill and pay it, I'm like, Thank you. Wow, that feels so cool to, you know, because I'm so used to you, your friends come, everybody have— let's all have dinner together and I'll pay for it. But, you know, that's a lot of money these days. So when someone pays for my lunch or my dinner, I get really excited.

It's exciting. Well, in your book, you talk about how you bought your first husband a lot of things like cars and motorcycles.

Yes, yes.

Probably more.

Yeah, a music studio.

That's a lot of stuff, Jenny.

Yeah.

And you did that because you thought he would love you more?

Probably. Yeah, I did that because I'm a generous person in my heart, and if I have money, I want everybody around me to be happy and comfortable. I love that about me. But I learned that gift giving needs to be a little more intentional, maybe a little more selective. And, you know, he walked away with the things that he walked away with. And I never thought again about it because what's the point?

Until memoir time came around. Until memoir time came around.

Yeah. Yeah. No. And just reflecting on how you— I've changed, you know, and I mean, my husband and I joke, he's like, man, I wish I was husband number one because I would have a Harley and a Defender. We make fun of it, but I'm like, yeah, I'm much more sensible now. Sorry.

So did you have to actively unlearn that money can't buy love?

Yes. In that situation, it was proven that that, you know, isn't the answer. And in other relationships, I've always been independent, so I've never been in the position of, what do you call it, when someone else is the breadwinner. And I don't know, I've never been in that situation. I've never been in the situation of accepting any kind of like post-divorce payments or alimony, whatever, child support, any of that. I've always paid for everything that I need or my children need, and they're their dad also steps in and pays for what he thinks they need. So, you know, I, I'd rather, rather than have conflict about money, I just try to not hold on tight to anything. And I, but I am much more sensible and more protective of the wealth that I have created because I see how hard I've had to work to get here. And I want to have something to leave for my girls when I'm gone. And you, you know, one of the things about life, You never know when it's your time to go. And I want to be prepared so that they are taken care of after I go.

Yeah. So you've always been the breadwinner and it sounds like you've always taken care of other people.

I was not the breadwinner in my second marriage. We were both bringing in money, making bread for the household. We were both making bread. Yeah, but I think I never really thought of that. It's the bread. Here's two things that are silly and funny. One is you just made me think the breadwinner, and money's called bread. I honestly thought it meant like putting food on the table.

Breadwinner. Both can be true.

The other one is making ends meet. That's an expression that people would always throw around, and I was like, why do you want to make meat? I, I was like, I don't get it. And then finally I was like, okay, the ends need to meet.

That's silly things.

It is.

And all the clichés are weird. Speaking of clichés, I have a new game called Secure the Bag. Oh, if you don't mind, I would love to play with you. Okay, you pick a question. Okay, and we can answer them together. You can also pass. There's really— we're making up the rules as we go.

Okay, I'm gonna pull one out.

You can phone a friend.

Let me put on my glasses here. What's something you believed about money that you've had to unlearn? I think it goes back to the scarcity. I think that's one of the biggest things for me was learning that when I'm living in scarcity mindset about finances, it gets more and more scarce. Yeah, like I'm, I'm like we talked about, I'm suffocating the flow and the energy of it. So I've had to let that go and relinquish that concern, that constant worry, because it doesn't help me.

Yeah. You saw it become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yeah. I hate those, by the way.

I know, but I mean, they can be really great, but usually they're not.

They're not, you know, spoken of in a positive way.

Do I pull another word?

What do you mean?

The abundance. Yes, it could be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Exactly, like a positive.

Let's bring—

but isn't it usually like—

it usually has like a negative connotation. But let's bring on the positive.

Positive, positive.

Abundance brings on abundance.

Oh my gosh, when you step into like telling yourself what it is that you want in life, it will come to you. Like when you can imagine yourself— I mean, it's so much more than manifestation. It's actually living into the life that want ultimately. And I know people talk about that, but it's really true. It's like when you stop holding yourself back, whatever it is, a dream, something you wanna create from the ground up, when you stop telling yourself you can't do it, you're— other people are doing it, you have no right to be doing it. When you stop that ridiculous conversation in your head, it opens up the new conversation for why not me? What if? I, I like to say now, something that's very new for me is the sky's the limit. There's— I've always kind of felt like there's nothing you can't do, but at this age in my life, I really truly believe that there's nothing I can't do. There's nothing I can't survive. And living like that just creates a more of a fearless, you know, approach to things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And now we're all up in space, so like it's beyond the skies. Let's go to Mars and the moon. I'm good.

Right here with my feet planted on the beautiful grass in California.

Love it. Okay, next, positive self-fulfilling prophecies.

Yes.

Okay, positive self-fulfilling— abundance is the best one. You can— abundance in anything.

Yeah.

And alignment. Live— just tell yourself living in alignment is the most important thing to you, and it all falls into place.

So you— we were talking about this, uh, right before we were starting, I became a mother at 40, 40, 40. I was almost 41. Uh, you became a mother at 24.

Mm-hmm.

Um, what would you tell me as a new mom?

Ooh. I would tell you to remember to take care of yourself. And that just sort of like encompasses the whole concept of my book and my podcast and my clothing brand is to just remember that yes, we are caregivers and that's our job to keep little people alive. And we love it so much. It's, you know, that natural maternal instinct, but we need to remember to turn that love back onto ourselves and make sure that that's a priority. You know, whether it means taking a nice hot bath at the end of a day, Instead of making dinner, let your husband order in something, or let your friend take care of dinner for that night. You know, just little things that you can do to stay in touch with how important you are to this whole process.

Amen. And to end, I'm going to ask you the same question that you asked me on your show. What was your last I choose me moment?

I think my last I choose me moment is kind of like an ongoing thing. I have a new puppy. And who is here? Yes, she's here. Uh, her name's Dottie. I have 3 other dogs too. They're very jealous, but I choose to bring her with me wherever I go because I feel a certain sense of, um, ease when I have my puppy with me. And I think it goes back to my love of being a mom, of a caregiver. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's so reciprocal, that kind of love, that unconditional love that you have with your kids or you have with your doggy kids, you know? And there's just something so like, blood pressure regulating for me to have nervous system, whether they're calming me or I'm calming them, it doesn't matter. It's, we're, we're taking calming each other. Yeah. So my last I choose me moment is bringing my dog today.

And I'm so glad you did. Honestly, you, you chose me too in that process.

You have to hold her. She's so sweet.

Our whole team.