Transcript of Kier Gaines: Why Healing Starts With the Truth You Keep Avoiding

The attention economy concerns me, and I think we're getting more desperate for attention. But I think the more we look for attention and notoriety, the less we hold on to some semblance of integrity and morality. And ultimately, I don't know where our humanness goes after that.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged. And today we are in Like, we are gonna be talking to a guest that's a prominent voice in health and wellness, diving deep into personal development, insightful. He's impactful and he's done something that he doesn't know yet that we're gonna talk about it. This actually changed my life. We are talking to none other than the amazing Mr. Kier Gaines. Kier, how you doing today, brother?

I'm good, Mick. What's good with you, brother? Thank you for having me on, man.

Man, thank you for being here. I'm honored. Um, there's some things we're gonna, we're gonna talk about, but I have to give you your flowers, bro. Like, I'm all about that, especially when we talk about, about mental health, which I know is a space you dominate in. Um, we're gonna talk about your amazing journey, but bro, I've been following you for a while. And you said something that you were going through that made me pause. And I was like, I'm implementing this in my life right now.

All right.

You said that you told someone they were hurting your feelings. Yeah. And when you said that, bro, every ounce of pride and ego that I had, I was able to step to the side because I understood the power of that. And so I just wanna thank you for giving me that power as a man, as a Black man, to be able to let somebody know, Hey, that just hurt my feelings. I love you for that, brother.

Hey, man, I, I love the fact that you picked up on that and you were able to do something with it. It's, it's such a hard thing to admit, especially as a man, and especially, especially as a Black man, because there is this, this motif of being impenetrable that I think gets assigned to us. And it's unfair, man. It's unfair because you're still a person, you're still a human. But when you put that motif on for so long, you start to believe it. that it's true. And after a while, you don't acknowledge your own feelings. And then there's this other part of it too, Mick, where when you admit to somebody that they hurt your feelings, now they got the power to do whatever with that that they want. Whatever they want.

Right.

They can say, man, pull up your feelings, just continue to steamroll you.

Right.

You know, they could listen, they could see you as weak and just avoid any type of conflict with you after that. It's really a mark of bravery to be able to admit something like that. It's still hard for me to admit. So I, man, I love that. Bro, I love that so much that that was able to help you.

I'm glad that you gave me the power to do that. And I know that there are people that are watching, that are listening right now. I'm letting you know it's okay to let someone or someones, plural, know that they hurt your feelings because feelings are real.

Oh yeah.

And that's what Keir taught me, man. Like, like the emotions that we have, the feelings that we have, they're all real. And a lot of times we keep that bottled in. And it makes it worse and worse and worse. And then we put ourselves in darker places because we don't give ourselves the authority to communicate back to others. And so again, I applaud you for that, bro.

Nah, right on, man. I think the authority piece is the perfect characterization of what that is. It's giving yourself permission. And for me, just the way I grew up, the hardest part of giving myself that authority is I always confuse someone who has hurt feelings with someone who's soft or weak. It's like, oh nah, I was, I would still beat you up.

Right, right.

Nah, that's not what this is. It's the acknowledgement of what's going on inside of me. And I think just being a man is so much about what you can control in your external universe, what you can manipulate for financial and economic gain, and how you could be seen, how you could be loved and respected. But gotta love and respect yourself and norm people on how to love and respect you. Hey bro, I ain't like when you did that. You don't have to always say it that way. You hurt my feelings. And for those that don't know, I shared that with my wife. She wasn't my wife at the time. She was my girlfriend. I'm like, hey, the way you talking to me is hurting my feelings, which is counterintuitive to the way that a lot of us are, are culturalized, man. So thank you, man. I appreciate that. I'm glad that was able to do something for you, brother.

Absolutely, man. Absolutely. So Keir, man, I, I start every episode by asking my guests a very specific question.

All right.

And, and all the accomplishments in life that you've had and, and the things that you do That we see publicly, but a lot of things that you do that we don't see, man. Like you, you are a, a monster of inspiration. You are a powerhouse when it comes to, to mental wellness and, and, and you really give back and help. And so my question to you is what I ask everybody, like, what's your because? That thing that's deeper than your why, right? Like, Simon Sinek taught us to start with why. Awesome. But I think that as you continue to answer that question and go deeper, what usually happens is you say, oh, this is my why because X, Y, and Z. And I care about what you say after you say the word because. So if I were to say, Yeah. Kierra Gaines, man, like all the things that you do, the continuation of giving back and pouring in and trying to make this universe better. What's your because? What's your purpose today, brother?

Because why not? Because why not? I think that I realized very early that I'm a pretty good translator where I can take things that are pretty complicated and I can put it at eye level so that it's digestible for folks. Why not? Why not have a better understanding so that you have a chance at a better relationship? Why not Have a better understanding of the way your feelings work so that you can anticipate them before they get there and that you can manage them once they're on top of you. And then that you can maintain some sense of emotional stability once they're gone. So you're not just beating yourself up for what you didn't say in the argument.

Why not? Why not?

Why not have the opportunity to know yourself better as you change throughout time and you go through grief and you go through experiences and you go through hurt, you go through happiness. Why? Why? I don't understand why not.

Yeah. I love that, dude. I love that. And when did you realize, when did you first sit down and say, hey, I want to share with the world and, and, and go deeper? 'Cause I've heard you talk a lot about depth, right? Like a lot of times, I, these are the words of Mick and Mick only. I think with AI now, Everybody can sound really good on a subject.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. You can write yourself a bestseller.

But they're not going deep into it. And like, that's where I can find out who's real and who's not. When did you know that mental wellness was gonna be a space that you were going deep into?

That's a good question, Mick. I feel like it, when I learned how important it was in my own life and I learned You know, you ever, like when you're in a college class or when you're any, in any type of training and you walk in and you have an understanding of whatever subject you about to go into, like, all right, I, I know what I'm talking about. And then the more that instructor talks, the more you realize, oh, I was on level 1 of 50. I thought I knew everything, but there's a science to the science to the science that I don't understand yet. And I think as I started to accumulate life, like I said, my girlfriend at the time, we found out we were pregnant. She's my wife now, but this was 7, 8 years ago. I started trying to figure out what it is I wanted to do with my life. I tried to better understand who I was and how I worked and why I did the things I did. And the more I would come to these understandings, the more I realized it was still so much more to go.

Um, and I realized that when we spread the problem wide and we talk about it in a very wide way, but we don't talk about it deeply, we don't get anything done. We just feel good about discussing it. And that didn't feel complete to me. It didn't feel fulfilling. So I started, just like how you don't ask the why, you ask the because.

Mm-hmm.

I started saying, and then what? Well, you need to be aware of these things that you think and feel. Okay. And then what? Well, once you're aware of these things you think and feel, you have to start being able to try to determine how they affect you. Okay, and then what? Well, once you determine how they affect you, you gotta determine how they affect the people around you. Okay, and then what? And when you keep asking, and then what, if you're not only drilling deeper to get to the bottom of the problem, but you're also casting a wide net of your own understanding.

Right.

So that you're not just moving in a way that satisfies your most surface-level urges, you know, the desire to be better, desire to be loved, seen, and respected. But you, you can walk into a feeling of self-love, into a feeling of self-respect. You can not just say, hey, I'm, man, I got these people pleasing tendencies. You can be honest. You can have self-honesty, which I write about in my book. And the self-honesty says, hey, I'm afraid that people will abandon me if I don't allow them to just, you know, do the thing uninterrupted.

Yep.

And then you ask, okay, and then what? What happens when they abandon you? And it's just, maybe it's just me and my curiosity for life, bro. But I, I'm, I'm about solutions. I see the problem. How, what are we gonna do about it, man?

That's it.

And that's what kindled me to start on this journey.

Hey, so you, you talk about the book and we're, we're just gonna go there now. So before I knew you were writing a book, been a huge fan of you. And if people would have asked me, you know, tell me about Kier, tell me about what you love about him, what you like about him, I would've said this right here. Kier makes me think about the most uncomfortable truths. And so I call the segment of the show, I actually called the Unplugged Truth based on me talking about you. So I'm breaking news right now. So this is the second segment of my show. I always call the Unplugged Truth. And I got it from you because you made me think about uncomfortable truths, right? Like the things we don't wanna tell ourselves or accept about ourselves.

That's right.

And so then now let's talk about this book. It All Starts When You Do, to me, is the most uncomfortable Unplugged truth ever, ever, ever, ever stated because, and, and we're gonna go into the book, but just the title, It All Starts When You Do, just opens up so much internal uncomfortableness, bro.

Damn right.

We have to answer that question.

Yeah.

Are, are we going to start?

Are we gonna start? Are we gonna start? How are we gonna start? And when are we gonna start? start for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's, let me, let me do a better job of being a book person and move the, the book into frame. But it's, it's, um, yeah. Nah, nah, nah. An uncomfortable truth. One of my uncomfortable truths is when I'm really focused, I'm gonna forget stuff. So I'm gonna forget to move my book in the frame. And instead of just killing myself over it and just being, oh man, I'm so stupid. I'm so dumb. Say, hey, how can we do this differently next time?

Yeah.

You try to give myself some grace. Some people have an uncomfortable truth of not admitting when they're overwhelmed. I, I'm overwhelmed. You can't say that. Why? Because you feel like it is a scathing indictment on your capability. If you're overwhelmed, well maybe you ain't got the capacity 'cause you too weak or you're not deserving. Nah, it's not about my capacity. It's too much going on. It's too much for one human to handle. You know, in our family, sometimes people who have these behaviors that aren't healthy and aren't adaptive, you know, they'll say rude stuff or inflammatory or hurtful things to you and they just say, oh, that's, that's just the way I am. And one of the uncomfortable truths is it's, it's too late for me to change. No, it's not. Define change. You don't have to massively change all the time. You don't have to change who you are. Sometimes you just change a few things that you do. Let that be the sample test and see what happens after that. So in my mind and with the clients that I see in therapy, one of the more recurring observations that I have of folks is that the biggest breakthrough that you need is oftentimes on the other side of one of your most difficult challenges.

And those difficult challenges are usually framed and an uncomfortable truth that you, you do not wanna confront, you're avoiding it. And we got a lot of avoidant language that makes us okay with avoidance. And that's, that's cool until it's not. Um, but what, what you're— the only way to go through it, Mick, is to go through it, bro. Like, it's, that's the only way. You can go around it, but it's still gonna be there.

And—

Right. I don't like the boogeyman chasing me down. I don't like— you ever heard of this thing? It's, my daughter is 9 and there's this, Like, tale of a snail. It's like you take some type of deal and a turtle or snail follows you for the rest of your life.

Yeah.

And if it touches you, it's like poison or something. And you're like, oh, I'll just let the turtle follow me for life.

But you—

oh, because it's slow, you wouldn't think it's ever gonna catch you, but you have something chasing you for the rest of your life. You never know a moment of peace. And that's how I feel about uncomfortable truths that get left on the table.

Dude, I love that. And that, Like, we're gonna talk to the, to the audience. We're gonna talk to the people that are listening, that are watching, because I know personally there's somebody on the other end that's like, that sounds great.

Mm-hmm.

I love it conceptually. How do I get started then? Like, how do I get started with no longer avoiding? How do I get started accepting that? Yeah, it really does start when I do. How do I take that first step to put hands on that wall to really start pushing and maneuvering? So I'm gonna give you the floor, brother, because this is your world, this is your domain. You're the expert. Like, there's a person right now that needs this key.

No, no problem. Let's, let's start with 2 light loads. I used to be a personal trainer, so you, you always start with the easy joints first. Let's, let's, let's start with some jumping jacks. 2 things that you can immediately do. or, or immediately pay attention to. One is the amount of awareness, awareness you have toward those things. Um, so being aware that the fact that you put things off is starting to affect the way that you obtain your goals, or your loyalty towards certain people is starting to affect your ability to grow. Your, your unwillingness to put yourself out there has maybe hampered your mobility in the job market. Maybe you're not where you wanna be. Maybe your inability to make the right decision has pigeonholed you into a life that does not feel good on your skin. Some people just can blame it on everything. Oh, it didn't, you know, the universe didn't work out, or it just wasn't time, or, you know, it just wasn't meant to be.

Yeah.

I think it's the awareness of, no, I made that mistake. No, I, I didn't try hard enough. No, I, I didn't do the best that I could. It's the awareness while knowing that that awareness is not going to feel good because the next thing you're gonna need on top of that is the mechanism to get yourself out of a tailspin, which is a whole nother conversation. But first, it's awareness when, when we talking about starting. And the other thing that you can do right now, um, well, you know what? I'm sorry. Let me say one more piece about awareness. Awareness is also not just allowing the thing to exist. And you just kind of make a mental note of it, call it out. Like, call it out loud. Uh, I'm procrastinating again. I'm supposed to do that. I'm supposed to do this work 2 hours ago, and I'm procrastinating because I do not want to do it. I have to, but I do not want to do it. It's telling the truth of the situation, even though it doesn't feel good to say. But I see you. I see you, procrastination. You can't hide from me.

You're right there, and I'm calling you out. I'm calling you out loud, verbally. It's not just living in my head. I'm saying it out loud. That's the first thing you could do to start. The second thing you can do is start to become curious. Curiosity is such an amazing characteristic to hold because not only does it allow you to see something difficult, it asks, it, it, it really kindles you to think about the why. So you start moving around it. And when you get really curious and when your curiosity turns internal, like introspective, we call that self-interrogation of automatic thoughts.

Mm-hmm.

So it's interrogating the first thing you think. The first thing you think, you just usually allow it to shoot from the hip like a Western film, just bang.

Yeah.

Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. That's just my first thought. That's the rough draft. You don't get to get met to the world. You don't get, you don't get introduced to the world as the rough draft.

Yeah.

I wonder why I think that. I wonder what narrative is attached to that. When do I first remember starting to think this way? Who else in my life thinks this way who influences me? Interrogating your automatic thoughts and being aware of the thoughts that you have are 2 really good starting points. to get some inertia and to get some momentum so that you can start moving in the direction that you wanna move to, not just being stagnant in the ways that your life has either trained or conditioned you to be.

That's why you're here, brother. Like that's, I promise you somebody needed that, man. And, and I'm gonna tell you, so this is me getting personal on how you helped me.

Let's get personal, man.

So my uncomfortable truth moment You helped me overcome and you didn't even realize it, right? Like I, I've seen and followed you forever.

Thank you, man.

I realize, and I, I know that there are a lot of people out there, especially if you're an entrepreneur, if you have a business, if you do any type of consulting, and I'd be curious to get your part or your take on this too. You helped me understand that as much good as I wanted to do in the world, I can't do everything for free. And, and, and here's what I mean. It was real easy for me to say, oh yeah, I'll help you with that. Um, and, and it's my business, right? So if I've got a business that teaches emotional intelligence, if I've got businesses that, that develop AI, like if you were a friend or a buddy, I'd be like, yeah, I'll help you with that. I'll do that. I won't charge you. But it would eat at me because the same amount of time and energy and effort that I was giving a client that was paying me $50,000 or $100,000, I'm giving my buddies, friends, people I liked. I do it for free. And, and I know people are like, Mick, that sounds weird. You want to charge for everything you do.

But when I tell you the energy, Keith, that goes into Doing the same thing, I started feeling awkward of, well, how can I charge someone X, but then I do the same thing for someone for free? And mentally it was eating at me of, and here's what you helped me overcome. How do I tell a friend, no, I won't do it for free. You can pay like everyone else pays and get the best of everything that I do. And it really sucked to tell someone no.

Yeah.

Like it really, really sucked to tell someone no. Because my heart, the heart that I have is I never wanna leave anyone. I, I, if I make it to the top, I want everybody to come to the top with me, but everybody's not willing to do that work. And it, it made me understand, or it made me believe and start to see Not that purposely I was getting used. I'm not saying it that way, but people understood that I probably was gonna say yes.

Oh, they knew that dynamic. Yeah, of course.

And, and you helped me, you helped me with that uncomfortable truth of, hey, Mick, can't be nice to everybody. And, and that was really hard. And, and people may seem like, yeah, that's, that's an easy switch to turn on and turn off. But when you, when you are me and the heart that I had, like, It was tough, bro. But, but now I can promise you I've overcome that. And people that know me now are like, oh, I'm not, I'm not going to Mick unless I'm ready to go to Mick and I'm willing to invest in myself to be the better version of me.

That's right. 'Cause you normed them. You know something interesting that you said, and I'm not trying to therapize you, but you said you can't be nice to everyone. In my mind, allowing friends to get services from you, and if you're an entrepreneur, you understand this, it ain't personal. Allowing my friends to get services, from you that you pay for, that's not niceness to me necessarily.

Right.

I think there is an element of kindness to it, but when it becomes hurtful to you and your business, um, I don't know what word to put around that, but being, being firm is not the opposite of being nice. And I think that's a, that's a tough thing, especially when you got a big heart. I got a big heart too, man. Um, and I had to learn to be more firm with people 'cause folks ask, hey, can you come speak here? Can you come do this? And it's different. It's not Like I'm building something that takes me 25 years to build. And then it's a lot of like that obvious time-consuming work. It's, it feels like I'm just going to go do a speech or, yeah, sure, I can, I can go talk to your school. I can talk to your nonprofit. But what happens is my currency is time now. So I was spreading myself very thin. And now every second that I spend outta the house, outta the house is time away from my family. It's time away from my wife. It's time away from my hobbies. It's time away from my peace.

And it's, and me saying no to that opportunity isn't me not being nice. It's me being protective of the things that I am assigned to protect. And my business is the thing that I'm assigned to protect. And if I'm doing 45 random free speaking events when I have this big one that they, 'cause you know, when they start paying you, Mick, they want you to, you gotta show up, bro. It ain't—

Yes.

Yeah. You gotta show up.

Yes.

You gotta show out and you have to perform and deliver. And it's hard to do that when your bandwidth is low. So now I'm, I'm glad you did that. And one of the things I did to overcome that is when my friends have things, I got a friend who's a professional photographer, but as soon as we call, I talk money first. Hey bro, send me a quote. Yep. Send me a quote of how much you're gonna charge me for this, because I believe that if you do something really well, you should not be doing it for free. Capitalism be damned. I'm sorry.

Hey, that's always been my mantra. I just thought other people would, would resonate it back and, and I, I got firm. I think that's better. That's a better way to say it. I definitely got firm.

So yeah, it's not comfortable though. It's not comfortable all the time, but you gotta practice it. And it sounds like you practiced it enough that now you're good at it.

Yes, sir.

Yeah. Yeah. You get good at the things you practice for sure.

Keir, man, like again, huge follower, huge fan. I want to go into some hot takes now. And, and by hot takes, it's, it's nothing, nothing crazy.

Here we go. But Mickey, you gonna get me canceled, man? Is that what we doing?

Nope. Not doing that at all. This is me again, giving you your flowers because my hottest take of the day is this. All right. I trust Kier Gaines because one, he's gonna tell me the truth. And 2, this is a hot take. He has the credentials to back it up.

Oh yeah.

And, and, and so I don't think people understand the depth of having like licensed credentials. I'm not talking about credentials of 200 people said Kier's hot. You gotta go follow him. You gotta go listen to him. I don't mean credentials of Google reviews or, or social media followers or engagement. I mean like real ass credentials, bro.

Yeah.

Like, like, like licenses, continuing education of those licenses. And so this is a, a part of my hot take. Does it piss you off when others, and I'm not talking about anybody particularly, and I know there's been some news lately, I, I'm not even talking about that. I'm just saying it's real easy for people to put air quotes for those that are listening, not watching, credentials behind their name, man. Like, But for somebody that's done the work, let's talk about credentials, man.

Your question was, does it piss me off when people do that?

Yeah.

No, it doesn't piss me off. I get a little disappointed. I get disappointed and I get concerned. I get disappointed because I think that we are living in a really interesting anti-intellectual moment right now where the opportunity gap is so wide and there's so many people on the not receiving in of the opportunity, whether it's the opportunity to further your education in college, whether it's the opportunity to gain certain skills, the opportunity to learn how to research. 'Cause Googling something is not research. It's just, it's Googling. You're not, that's not what research is. Research, real research can't be found just in a simple Google search. That's not how it works. Um, but I think there's so many people who aspire to be, who don't have the opportunity to be, that when someone comes, when someone is visible and they say, ah, credentials don't matter, or you don't have to go to college, the anti-intellectual rhetoric, it makes them feel like, oh, well, if you say that and you're there, then it's possible for me too.

Yeah.

I read on a 6th grade level because I was in a state with terrible education and I got socially promoted and I would love to be where you are. And you saying that intellectualism is not the barrier between where I am and where you are, it makes me feel like this thing is possible for me. But that's a lie, man. That's a lie. And it's so much deception. So I get disappointed, but then I get concerned because credentials are there for a reason. I know we are getting taught all the time that these things don't matter or Uh, they're inconsequential. I, okay, I guess, but there's a lot of protection for people there. You know, it's one thing to say, um, even in my field, it's one thing to say I'm a therapist and that's cool. It's one thing to say I'm a coach. You can, you can call yourself whatever.

Mm-hmm.

But when you have taken the test and you have received the training and you have received the mentorship and the guidance and you have The hours, I mean, the hours of practicing. You can't replicate that. You can't replicate that. So then it becomes a safety concern when you're in front of people like a postpartum mother, when you're in front of people like a man who has self-harming behaviors, when you're in front of people that says, hey man, I think, what do you, you say, you talking all that? Okay. A man sits in front of you and says, man, I've been abusing my wife for the last 5 years. What do you do?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

If you're not trained and you haven't taken those continuing education units and you haven't been mentored properly and you haven't sat across from someone who's dealt with that, Yep. and walked them through it, or someone who's been on the receiving end of abuse and walked them through that to some type of self-healing, then you don't know what you're doing. And we can say whatever we want on the internet, But when it comes to helping people, and being a therapist is about helping people, 'cause the money is not good. It's not. Don't nobody get here to be rich.

Right.

If, if you can't really make a meaningful change in those people's lives, what are you doing? Like, what is all of it for? It's just the attention economy concerns me. Um, and I think we're getting more desperate for attention. And I think, and I'm not talking about anybody in particular because this applies to many, many, many folks. Um, but I think the more we look for attention and notoriety, the less we hold on to some semblance of integrity and morality. And ultimately it just, I don't know where our humanness goes after that.

Nah, man. And, and I love that you brought up the intellectualism because I literally was in a debate 3 weeks ago on that same topic, and I used very similar words to you. And I, because I get asked all the time, like, did college change your life? Could you have been where you are without college? I'm like, wait, are you talking about the social aspect of college? The, the, the intellectual aspect of college? Because those are 2 different things.

For sure.

Right? Those are 2 different things. And I could say maybe I didn't, or maybe one helped me in a way that another didn't. But what's critically important to me, and I don't care what field you're in, Even if it's not college, great. But are you continuously learning? Are you continuously getting those credentials in whatever field that you're in? Because to me, credentials are safety and protection.

Yeah, for sure.

Like, like, and, and how I ended this debate, and it truly was a debate, was this: you get arrested, do you want Pookie that can go on AI and get some answers for you? Or do you want an actual credentialed, passed-the-bar attorney?

That's right.

Because here's what happens with credentialing, and this is why I believe in it, and this is why intellectualism is so important to me. And you hit on it. When something goes left, I need that licensed person that understands why it's going left, how to steer it back, How to, how to make the pivots and changes that are needed because that's their profession and that's what they do.

Mm-hmm.

Not someone who can go Google search someone or put something in the Claude or, or whatever and get a response. It's gonna sound great. It's gonna sound like, yep, I know what I'm talking about. But usually those perfect scenarios don't exist. And that's why you get the licenses. That's why you further the education. You continue the education. Because, and I, I know that you know this, some, some law might've changed in the past 6 months.

I was just thinking about that. Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

That now you can't say this word or this medicine exists that didn't exist. And, and now we gotta verify it and make sure that it works. If you're not going through continuously educating yourself, keeping up with the proper credentials, not only are you outdated, But now you've eliminated safety and protection for the people that you're supposed to be there for.

Absolutely. It says that I am abiding— credentials say I am abiding by a set of guidelines and rules that have been put in place by a governing body of experts, and they deem me fit to do this duty. Not only that, but if I don't do it well, I am going to be held responsible.

Right.

I'm going to be held responsible if I hurt someone or If I take someone off of the path, um, that they choose. And, and look, man, it's the craziest thing about it for me is, um, it's, I, I think that the hours of practice is what we kind of sleep on. I, I think if I'm not mistaken, I could, I could be wrong about this, but I think therapists, in order to get our license in some states, have a similar number of flight hours to, um, a pilot. I don't think a commercial pilot, but I think a pilot. And, um, you know, it, it's, it's cool to land a plane when it's 70 and sunny.

Yep.

You know?

Ah, yeah.

You turn left. Yeah. What about when the wind is blowing 40 miles per hour north by northwest and there's zero visibility and there's hail coming down and you can't get in touch with a radio control tower? Everybody still needs to get to the ground safely. So the, the training matters, but I also think intellectualism kind of did this to itself by being so exclusionary. You know, sometimes people who are of a higher IQ or higher understanding or more worldly or more cultured look down on people who aren't. And I said this on Threads, you said, I said, I love when people intelligently disagree with me. I love that. But keep in mind, intelligent doesn't mean more educated.

Right.

Yeah. Right. And, and just like smarter doesn't mean articulate. I know plenty of smart people that aren't. My grandmother was not an articulate woman, but she was a brilliant woman.

Different, different. Yeah.

So I, I think we kind of did it to ourselves with kind of like this moral superiority, value, virtue signaling type thing. And I also think, you know, the political, the place that our country is in politically also adds fuel to that fire. You know, we, we hearing this from the highest stations like, hey, that type of education's just not important by people who have that type of education. I just, it's, it's fascinating, man. It's fascinating how you can control what people think by By leaning into what they believe and repeating the same thing over and over, you can really bend people. You can make, you can break people by doing that.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Keir, man, like, I, I've always wanted to ask you this question. And, and so this segment I'm gonna call The Room. Was there a room, a moment, a dinner, a lunch, and a meeting That truly changed your life? Like, I can always go back to the first time that I met Daymond John and had a conversation. My life changed because I realized that there were paths that I needed to take. I realized that, oh, it's all about action. It's never about words. And I, I will never forget that room in that moment. Was there a room? Was there a moment? Was there a meeting? that you can look back at that was like, this changed the trajectory of my life or my career?

I don't know if it was a room or a meeting necessarily. Um, I, you know what? It was a conversation. It, it changed the trajectory of my life in an unlikely way. It wasn't a famous person. That's actually my barber. I ended up getting a new barber and, um, he has, I left my old barber because the energy was just bad.

Hmm.

Talented dude, man, but the energy just wasn't there. I always left the chair feeling worse than I did when I came in. Just negative, man. So negative. Um, and I, I floated in between barbers from that one. I landed at this guy I have now and, um, he, there was a point where I was afraid to, um, like take my career to the next level. Uh, kind of afraid to tell people what to do 'cause I didn't wanna say the wrong thing. 'Cause therapists really don't tell people what to do. I was afraid to expand. I wanted to offer courses, but I'm like, man, I can't charge somebody for a course. Like, that doesn't, that doesn't make sense. Like, why would you, who would pay for that? And he's more of a like Myron Gold, like finance type of dude. And they do like the funnels and all these matrixes to make sure people buy. And that's not my ministry. Like, it's—

Right.

If I could, I would democratize wellness and have everything I say and do be free for everyone forever. But that's not sustainable. You know, it's hard to record on these nice cameras when your family's homeless. So, um, he really got me comfortable with the idea that your mind is a commodity. Like your, your mind is the commodity and the things that you think are obvious are not obvious to everybody. And I knew that, but to hear the dude giving you a shape-up tell you something like that, it, it, it changed the way that I see what I could be in this business, not just someone who has good ideas, but someone who can actually be a changemaker, someone who can actually have an offering that extends beyond an Instagram page. Yeah, man. Shout out to Charles. Charles is my barber. He's a brilliant dude, man. I think he opened my eyes to that. It's crazy, all these big rooms I be in and it'd be the one where I'm sitting down and getting a haircut that changed my life, right?

Getting the dark Caesar. Charles said, let's, let's have this conversation with this shape up.

That's right.

I love it. I love it. Barbershop conversations, man.

Oh man. Life, life-changing, bro. Life-changing.

For sure.

We talk about family, we talk about our kids, we talk about ourselves. We hold each other accountable. Um, it's, it's the only thing as a husband, father, entrepreneur, God, what else do I do? Media personality, all the, all the stuff, all the stuff I am. That's the only thing that I do just for myself. There it is. There it is.

Well, before I get you outta here with my rapid-fire top 5, I gotta be remiss if I don't bring it up again. It All Starts When You Do. Um, everybody do me a favor. Let's, let's go preorder this book now. This book will be a New York Times bestseller, so you don't want to try to order it when it's too late. Like, let's go get it right now. And I'm gonna do this, Keir, man, like, Because I believe in the mission of everything that you do, and I love this book and where it's going. The first 20 people that message me, I'm starting, and I don't care if you do it on LinkedIn, if you do it on Instagram, but message me, I'm starting. I'm gonna personally buy a copy of this book for you.

Oh man.

Because that's gonna be life-changing.

That's gonna be— Mick, you a different dude, bro. Not only do you have incredible lighting over there, like I see you glowing, bro. You gonna have to drop the skincare routine. You got me looking ashy over here. That's, man, anybody who's listening, Mick's audience, man, that's, it's not many people you meet in this business that come across this authentically. That's rare, man. Thank you sincerely. I know that this is like, it's like a whole thing when you doing a book and let's just pull the curtain real quick. You know, when you're on tour and you're doing a book and you're selling a book, it's really, about the thing that you're trying, you're trying to get people to have this product in their, in your hands so you can be successful. I'm trying to get people to get this in their hands so they can be successful. You know?

And it's gonna do that.

So I appreciate you, brother. Real talk. I appreciate that.

I appreciate you back. I appreciate you back. And another thing too, and I meant to do this earlier because I've listened to the, what, 9 episodes deep now? New podcast.

Oh, the pod. Learn the hard way.

Yeah. Doing some amazing things with the podcast too. So I need everybody, Yeah. Name of the podcast so they got it.

Learn the Hard Way.

Learn the Hard Way. Go follow it. Apple, Spotify, uh, YouTube, wherever you stream your podcast. It's, it's a really, really dope, uh, really inspiring, uh, really factual show. It, I, I love it from beginning to end. So, so yeah, everybody make sure that you are subscribing to that podcast too.

Thank you.

So I meant to, I meant to do that earlier in the intro, bro. So.

All in good timing, bro. No worries.

There it is. All right, I'm gonna get you outta here on these top 5. You ready?

Let's do it.

All right, so you are DC's finest.

Yeah.

What is your favorite restaurant in DC?

In DC?

In Chocolate City.

God dang. Ooh, man, you put me on. Oh, you know, my favorite restaurant in DC is, Um, what's my favorite restaurant? Hold on, make you smoke me with this one. What's my favorite place to eat?

Coming out the gate hot.

Yeah, man, you came off the top rope with the metal chair. There is a restaurant called Sequoia. It is on 14th Street. It's a sushi restaurant.

Okay.

I got cool with the chef, man, and they got this toro. I don't know if you a sushi guy, but they got this fatty tuna. They hit it with the blowtorch. Squeeze a little orange zest on it, man. This sushi's so fresh. Got great noodle dishes. My favorite place to eat in the city.

All right, I'm gonna check. I'm, I'm back in DC in a couple of months, so I'm gonna be up there.

Oh, hit me up, man. Hit me up. I'll show you the town.

Let's do it. Let's do it. Who is the better cook in the household? You or wifey?

Oh man, my wife is a Haitian woman. Do you, have you ever had Haitian food before?

I have. I don't need to ask any more questions.

Yo, I'm getting embarrassed over here compared to her. She, she's amazing. That's one of the first things she did was cook for me when we were dating and I tasted her coconut jasmine basmati rice and I was like, yeah, I ain't going nowhere.

Never cooking rice again, huh? Yeah, I'm done.

I give up. I retired.

I retired. All right. Question number 3, bro. Like, what is a book you recommend that is not your book?

It All Starts When You Do. Can I do 2?

You sure can.

One is, uh, I'm reading this book right now called, uh, you know what? Nah, let's, let's start here. I will recommend Atomic Habits. I think that's a pretty— Atomic Habits is a good one. Um, and The Coddling of the American Mind by Jonathan Haidt. Um, and great.

I'm adding that to the list right now.

Oh yeah. Coddling of the American Mind. That's a pretty good one. And for Black men specifically, um, Black Boy Smile by Dee Watkins is a really good book. And also Long Way Down. by, um, by Jason Reynolds is a really good book.

Adding that one to the list too.

Yeah. I'm a huge reader, man. Black men need to read more fiction, by the way. I truly believe that.

Yeah. Yeah. Agree.

Agree.

In wellness, what's one trend that needs to be challenged? Like, what's one trend you're seeing that is like, I don't know if I agree with that one?

In wellness?

Yeah. Mm.

Walk away from the things that don't serve you. I don't, I don't necessarily agree with that. I think that's well-dressed avoidance. Sometimes things don't serve you and you need to walk away from 'em, but be curious about the things that don't serve you. Why don't they serve you? Is it that they don't serve you anymore? Is it that you change? Is it that they change? Is it that things changed around you? I, I think that we too easily give up and walk away from things that are inconvenient for us.

There it is. I like it. I like it. Last one, Key. Your story is being written right now. I believe that. What are 2 words that you wanna make sure define who you are and your legacy?

Ooh, I'm always weird about legacy 'cause I feel like legacy is for me to make, not enjoy.

Um, I, I believe that too.

Mm-hmm.

I believe that too.

I would say, um, I would say authentic. I don't think there's anything that's more of a nod to your lineage than you being who you, who you are, who you really are. Um, and consistent, man. I think it's one thing to show up, but if you could show up in different areas in the same way, with the same fervor, with the same velocity, with the same love and the same intent on impact. I think that says a lot about you, man. So authenticity and consistency, I think those would be my 2. What about you? What would be your 2?

Man, mine is, is very simple. Kept promises, bro. Like if I give you a promise, I'm gonna keep it.

Keep doing that. Yeah.

And, and, and that's what I want. My 2 words, I kept promises, man.

I love that, man. I'm changing mine. Mine's kept promises now. I'm stealing that. I ain't giving it back either. I made it up.

Nope, nope, nope, nope. We editing that out. Nah, I'm joking.

Nah, I love that, man. I love that. I think more of us need to keep our promises, not just to the world, but to ourselves too.

Yeah, because what that's allowed me to do Is actually make the right promises, right? Like if I tell somebody I promise, like I know I'm gonna keep it, which means I don't say it a lot, right? Like, because I'm not just gonna inflate something. I'm not gonna overpromise and underdeliver. So if I give you my word, like trust me, everything that, that's in me is gonna keep that word.

That makes it mean more. Nah, that's brilliant, man. I love that.

Yes, sir. Well, Kierman, I know how busy you are. I know you got so much going on. I'm completely honored to have you on. Everybody—

Honored is all mine.

LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, go do that. We have links to the book in the show notes, in the descriptions. Remember the first 20 people that message me that you are starting. So I'm starting. Um, I'm gonna make sure you get 20 copies. If you're number 21, number 51, whatever, just go buy the book. It's okay. It's okay. Amazon, Barnes Noble.

Yeah.

Everywhere books are sold. When it's time, your local bookstore, just go get the book because it's gonna change your life. And it's a book that's gonna actually help you.

Absolutely.

Right? Like it's, it's a book meant for you. And I think that's why I love the intentionality around the book. So Pierre, I appreciate you, brother.

Man, thank you for saying that. That's why I wrote the book. Appreciate you, Mick.

Absolutely. Absolutely. To all the viewers and listeners, remember, your because is your superpower. Go unleash it.