Transcript of Worlds Collide | EP 9

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands.

I vowed I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this.

He's going to get what he deserves.

We always say that. Trust your girlfriends.

Listen to The Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up everyone? I'm Ego Bode. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo.

My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspira— it would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah. It would not be—

Right, it wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of lies.

Yeah.

Listen to Thanks, Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct?

I doctored the test once.

It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing.

Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini.

My mind was blown.

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped.

Laura, Scottsdale Police.

As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 10-10, shots fired, City Hall building.

How could this have happened in City Hall?

Somebody tell me that.

A shocking public murder.

This was one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.

I screamed, "Get down, get down, those are shots." A tragedy that's now forgotten.

And a mystery that may or may not have been political.

It may have been about sex.

Listen to Rorschach: Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

When Mike Maracini ended his year-and-a-half-long entanglement with Laura Owens, he wanted to be done with her.

I deleted everything on my phone. I didn't want to read her name. I didn't want to see her face. I just wanted to forget about that chapter in my life because it was a really hard time for me.

But years later, Mike would find out that his experience with Laura was the beginning of a pattern, one that thousands of people online had become obsessed with. Maybe most invested of all was Dave Neal.

It was almost like Laura had this dam that she was holding up with her own hands. The leaks were coming out and she was very much like a cartoon, just doing her best, duct taping this thing shut. And then this laptop came outta nowhere.

Mike Maricini's laptop. It had been gathering dust in storage for almost 5 years.

When I think of Mike's laptop, I just think of it like sitting alone in a giant room in a museum with just a spotlight sitting on it.

Mike had no idea that all the information he'd deleted could be recovered and that the memories he'd tried so hard to forget would soon become critical evidence.

They found thousands of pages of documents, but more telling was just to show how damaging Laura was to Mike. They unearthed things he had forgotten actually happened.

I'm Stephanie Young, and this is Love Trapped.

If you ever, ever, ever, ever try to leave.

In the last episode, you heard about Laura's year-and-a-half-long relationship with Mike Maraccini. Laura planned a trip to Iceland. According to Mike, it was part of the radio show he'd been developing with Laura. The trip was paid for.

It was lined up with like things to do the entire time we were in Iceland. So from start to finish, there was an event every single day of something to do, to report back on at the end of the trip for the podcast.

Today, he wonders who actually footed the bill for their trip to Iceland. After recording multiple episodes of the radio show with Laura, he asked her when he could expect to see compensation.

I brought up that we were just working for free and I had spent like 50+ hours on these podcasts, being part of the edits, being part of the research, and that I wasn't gonna do any more work for free.

After he set this boundary, he says Laura sent him some money directly.

I was paid one time and I think it was like $1,600 from Laura. I never got paid through a station.

The radio contract Mike had been waiting for never came to fruition. After that, he walked away. But looking back almost 10 years later, he wishes he'd never gotten on that plane to Iceland. From what he remembers, the flight there was miserable.

We're like maybe 2 hours in the flight and she's hysterically crying, hysterically crying. And this is probably like at midnight. People around us are all turning around looking at us and she's like lifting off my headphones and saying, "Please talk to me." Laura has a very different version of what happened on their Iceland trip.

She told her story 5 years later in a now infamous TEDx talk.

He said that he didn't want to end our relationship, but I couldn't understand why he didn't want to when he treated me like he hated me. He said that I brought it out of him, that it was my fault. That he'd never been violent before he met me, that I was responsible for his transformation from the all-American boy to American psycho.

Anyone can start a TEDx chapter. The one Laura applied to speak at was something called TEDx Mercer Island HS Women. HS seems to stand for high school. The chapter Laura spoke at was organized by 3 high school sophomores. Based in Seattle. On their website, the organizers say their goal was to empower women in the Seattle area. We don't know how Laura found this specific group or how she became a speaker there, especially because Laura doesn't appear to have any ties to Seattle. But once her TEDx talk was published, Laura seemed to think she was making a name for herself. She included the link to her TEDx talk in her email signature. She also sent the link to Greg Woodnick, the lawyer who was representing Greg Gillespie at the time. This was her proof of her status as a public figure. Here's Woodnick.

Not only was there a link to her TED Talk, which she was telling us about, but further down there was this curious Italian last name in one of the links also attached to the name Laura Owens.

That curious Italian last name was Marrochini. Woodnick's team tracked Mike down and found him listed on a court docket for a restraining order case Laura had filed against him. Shortly after, Woodnick got in touch with Mike, but Mike didn't want anything to do with Laura Owens. Here's what he remembers from that first phone call with Woodnick.

He was like, "By the way, she's got a TED Talk about you. Did you know that?" And I said, About me? Does she, like, say my name in it? And it's like, I think you should watch it.

So Mike went on YouTube and typed in Laura Owens TED Talk.

That was the only time I had watched, like, the first 30 seconds of it.

To this day, Mike can't bring himself to watch the whole thing.

It's absolutely crazy to watch knowing it's about me.

Yeah.

It's crazy, to say the least.

Even though Laura doesn't name him, Mike says he immediately recognized Laura's story is about him.

When I watched, I was in such shock because I know that she's referencing me the entire time, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put that together. All the views of those people that probably believed her and were against me for the longest period of time. It's a lot to take in. I had to turn it off though, because it just, I mean, it was all such complete lies and I just couldn't take any more of it.

In the TEDx talk, Laura presents a selfie she's taken in a hospital bed. Her face looks bruised. She claims this photo is proof of the physical abuse she'd experienced with Mike in the months after their Iceland trip.

Here's where I was when I actually posted it. In the hospital. After my abuser and I had a particularly rough night.

But here's the thing. Mike had seen this photo before, or at least one that looked very similar. And when I say very similar, I mean it looks like the exact same photo. Laura sent it to him 4 months before their trip to Iceland. And with the photo, she texted him saying she was at the hospital in preparation for an abortion she had scheduled the following day. This is what she sent him, with her text read by a voice actor.

I'm at the ER. My doctor wants them to get my fluids up so we can try to do the procedure tomorrow. Can you be back tonight at my place for sure? Looking bomb af on narcotics.

Even though Mike hadn't seen the TEDx talk, he was painfully aware of the allegations Laura made against him. That's because on June 9th, 2018, Laura filed a temporary restraining order against Mike Maracini.

She had these two bulldog attorneys that were elite attorneys, like extremely good. And these two people took it personal with me. They thought that I was beating the crap out of Laura.

According to her court records, It looks like Laura used a San Francisco-based legal clinic that specializes in free legal services for survivors of domestic violence, sexual assault, and stalking. I'm not naming this clinic because I don't think they did anything wrong. Clinics like this exist for a reason. It's their job to believe their clients, even if they don't have any proof of the abuse. These kind of free legal services for survivors They can save lives, and importantly, we know that falsified allegations of sexual abuse only account for about 5% of all claims. In June 2018, Mike had to give his sworn deposition to Laura's attorneys. At the time, he just started dating someone new, Danielle.

I'm Danielle Marroccini, and I am Mike Marroccini's wife.

From the very start of their relationship, Mike was open about what he was going through with Laura Owens.

I feel like most of it was told, at least the first month. I knew that she had accused him of domestic violence, and I did drive him to his deposition.

On the way to the deposition, Danielle remembers how nervous Mike was.

He was incredibly anxious.

They'd only been dating for a few months. When Mike got back in the car—

He was just defeated.

The deposition was much more intense than he'd expected. Mike thought he was just going there to tell the truth.

I do remember him just saying how they can find lies even though he's not actively lying. To frame him as this, like, violent guy.

For example, Laura's attorneys asked him if he liked guns. He was confused and said no. Then they brought up an old social media photo where Mike is holding a rifle. He says the picture was taken while he and friends had been shooting clay pigeons at a firing range. But Laura's attorneys used it to paint a picture of Mike as a violent guy who wasn't being honest about his relationship to guns.

It was post the deposition where my attorney's like, if you go to court, there's a high likelihood that they're going to press for a 5-year restraining order or a permanent restraining order if they find valid evidence. Now, there was no valid evidence at the time, but she was throwing everything at the wall. I feel like I'm fighting a ghost. I don't have evidence to support that I didn't beat her up. I don't know how I fight this.

Danielle took it all in.

I definitely felt hesitant at first, I think as most women would, but ultimately it just was this feeling that didn't track. Like, the things that she was accusing him of from the very short amount of time that I had known him just didn't make sense, and I thought If this man did these egregious things, why would he be telling me about them?

She decided to proceed with caution, but her friends were alarmed.

My friends did have the obligatory, hey, Danielle, those are really scary accusations. Once a domestic violence perpetrator, always a domestic violence perpetrator. And rightfully so did my friends warn me about that.

But Danielle saw Mike as gentle, the kind of guy who repeatedly went out of his way to be there for her. Early on in their relationship—

My dad passed away a little less than 2 months of knowing each other. Mike just said, I'm coming.

Mike made a 5-hour journey to be by her side. And he was there a few months later when Danielle received terrible news about her mom.

She passed away, like, 2 months after my dad. I just remember crumpling to the floor, and Mike was there. It just told me everything that I had needed to know about him very early on.

This is why she believed Mike when he told her Laura's allegations were false.

I'm so thankful that she gave me a chance and she stuck by me because we're now married with two little ones.

Danielle's been there with Mike through his entire legal battle with Laura Owens. After the deposition, Mike learned what he was up against: a domestic violence restraining order.

I thought it was essentially like a civil restraining order. But since we were in a relationship, it was considered domestic violence. That was not really explained to me clearly when it was happening.

The DVRO Laura's attorneys proposed would expire or renew after 2 years. And there was a mutual stipulation: neither of them could come within 300 feet of the other. That was appealing to Mike because he had no desire to see her or speak with her anyways. So he signed it, not fully understanding what he'd just done. He sent it to his attorney and wrote in the email, quote, "This was so difficult for me to sign knowing I never laid a hand on this woman, and this will be on my record for life." When I agreed to the 2-year restraining order, my attorney is like, "Let's just hope that she moves on with her life.

Let's hope she finds love." I was like, "Amen, sister." So that's what I thought I was signing up for, like a 2-year, it goes away.

In retrospect, Mike wishes he fought the DVRO harder, but at the time he believed his lawyer when she said this would be resolved in 2 years. After signing the DVRO, Mike and his wife Danielle tried to move on with their lives, but that document would impact them in ways they didn't expect.

I noticed that when I would go through the process of getting a new job, I would make it to the final and they were like, "Hey, here's your verbal offer pending background check." The first time I was like, "Oh, well, whatever, nothing's gonna show up." And then I didn't get the job. I didn't realize until I pulled a background check on myself that it shows up that I have a domestic violence restraining order and it's active. I would say that was the biggest piece of how it really affected my relationship, is being able to support and provide for my family because we ended up getting pregnant, real pregnancy, in 2020.

The DVRO had turned into an albatross hanging over both of them. Then in July of 2020, Danielle heard a knock at the front door.

I was probably 4 or 5 months pregnant. When the attorney came to our door and she was like, is Michael Maracini here? And I was like, who are you? I'm not telling you yes or no. Why are you here at my house?

Mike came to the door and stepped outside with the attorney.

It turns out the 2 years were up, and he comes back in and he was just like, she's renewing. And I was like, No. So it really blindsided us. I just remember erupting into tears.

By September of 2020, Mike was back in court with Laura Owens. Mike went in person, and Laura joined on the phone.

I hadn't seen her once in years. I moved away. And I thought to myself, like, how is this even possible? How could somebody renew when you haven't violated it?

Laura said she had proof that Mike violated the DVRO. She produced a screenshot of one of Mike's Instagram stories. He says his account was private and he had Laura blocked, but somehow she had a picture he'd posted of a smoothie he ordered at Barry's Bootcamp. Laura said that Barry's is less than 300 feet from her apartment, but Mike had a rebuttal. Barry's is a franchise. He wasn't at the one next to her apartment.

I said, "This is inaccurate. I was 30 miles away. I was in a completely different city.

This is my gym log with my smoothie order." In the end, it didn't matter if Mike had actually violated the DVRO or not because Laura was telling the judge she had reasonable apprehension of future abuse. In her renewal, Laura said, without a restraining order, I would never feel safe again. With that, the court renewed the domestic violence restraining order. This time, it would stay in place for the next 5 years.

I sat there and I said to the judge at the very end, I was like, please make this a civil restraining order because this affects my livelihood of getting jobs. My wife is pregnant. I am expecting a child here soon. I would really appreciate this could be moved to, like, a civil restraining order. And they essentially told me, no, she still fears for her life.

Danielle was devastated. This renewal came with shocking realizations.

We realized that she was never going to let him out of her grip and that the justice system will most likely never side with him.

Later on in this series, I traveled to San Francisco because at the end of 2025, Mike's DVRO was set to expire or renew once again. But before that happened, Mike was in for a surprise. He was about to discover the nightmare he'd lived through with Laura Owens was part of a viral story, and thousands of people online wanted to hear from him.

At some point I saw MM and I was like, are they talking about me?

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule 1: never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.

And rule 2: never mess with her friends either.

We always say that. Trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends—

Oh my God, this is the same man.

A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands.

I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target.

He's going to get what he deserves.

Listen to The Girlfriends: Trust Me, Babe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up everyone, I'm Ego Mortem. My next guest you know from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the big money players network. It's Will Ferrell.

Woo!

Woo! Woo! Woo!

Woo!

My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the Groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place they come look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you. Which is really sweet.

Yeah.

He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspira— it would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be.

Right, it wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of luck.

Yeah.

Listen to Thanks, Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In 2023, former Bachelor star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice, Miss Owens. Correct.

I doctored the test once.

It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for.

Sunlight's the greatest disinfectant.

They would uncover a disturbing pattern: two more men who'd been through the same thing.

Greg Gillespie and Michael Marancini.

My mind was blown.

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap.

Laura, Scottsdale Police.

As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news out of Maricopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges.

This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona.

Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 10-10, shots fired, city hall building.

A silver.40 caliber. Handgun was recovered at the scene.

From iHeart Podcasts and Best Case Studios, this is Rorschach: Murder at City Hall.

How could this have happened in City Hall?

Somebody tell me that! Jeffrey, who did it?

July 2003. Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest. Both men are carrying concealed weapons. And in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead.

Everybody in the chamber's ducked.

A shocking public murder.

I scream, get down, get down, those are shots, those are shots, get down.

A charismatic politician.

You know, he just bent the rules all the time, man.

I still have a weapon and I could shoot you.

And an outsider with a secret.

He alleged he was a victim of slapdown.

That may or may not have been political. That may have been about sex.

Listen to Rorschach: Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Up to this point, we've been telling the story of each individual case— Clayton Eckert, Greg Gillespie, and Mike Maraccini. But in the spring of 2024, in the lead-up to Clayton's trial, their worlds collided. The three of them teamed up with the internet detectives like Dave Neal and Schnitzel Ninja. So we're going to pick up where we left off and tell the story of how they all came together to support each other and try to get justice. In 2022, Greg Gillespie heard about Mike Maraccini's experience. Greg sent him a friend request. Here's Mike.

When I'm sitting there like, I do not want this back on my radar, that's the last thing I want. He tried to friend request me, and I had just gone through deleting everybody because Laura was watching me on social media. So I had, I think, probably like 1,000+ people on just purgatory of my social media, and I never accepted his friend request.

Greg's friend request went unanswered for over a year until December 2023.

I was doing New Year's resolutions with my wife. We were sitting on the couch and she was asking me, if there's something you could change over the last year, what would you have done differently?

The answer came to Mike immediately.

I should have reached out and I should have accepted Greg Gillespie's friend request, just knowing that I've gone through the same experience and just been somebody to talk with. I told her that was by far my biggest regret. And she said, why don't you change that?

Here's Mike's wife, Danielle.

And so he pulled it up and he accepted it. So we sat on the couch for probably the next 30 minutes crafting this message together.

For years, Mike thought he'd been the only one. Now he was writing to someone who'd been through the same ringer with Laura.

So I sent him a message apologizing, like, hey, I'm so sorry for what you've gone through. I know what it's like to deal with this person and their consistent chaos. I'm just really, really sorry that I wasn't there for you. And he responded very quickly and said, like, hey, Mike, I really appreciate it. If you ever want to set up a call to chat sometime, more than happy to.

Mike thought they were a club of two. That's when Greg broke the news.

He goes, you haven't heard, dot, dot, dot.

There was another guy. Same trap, same tactics.

And I was like, wait, there's another guy? And our eyes just popped out of our heads. And then he sends, like, an article. And Mike and I were like, what the fuck?

It turns out the other guy was kind of famous.

I was like, who's Clayton? I don't know who Clayton is.

Mike had never watched The Bachelor, so he typed Clayton's name into Google.

It pops up immediately and it's like Reddit articles.

There was an entire subreddit about Clayton and Laura. He started reading.

At some point I saw MM and I was like, are they talking about me?

That night, Mike and Danielle already had a date planned. Mike's mom was babysitting, so Mike and Danielle sat at a sushi restaurant and started scrolling. They had a lot of catching up to do. It was overwhelming to see the same pattern playing out a third time. And because of Clayton's fame, every small detail was public.

And my wife breaks down at the restaurant, starts crying because she had doubted me at times when she had thought to herself, like, though I don't believe that you ever hit her or did things like that, but like, I'm sorry for ever even doubting you. We were at the bar. I'm sure the sushi chefs were like, what is going on with these two? They haven't talked all night. They're both on their phone and now they're crying.

Mike thought his relationship with Laura was a traumatic one-off event, but now court documents from his case were being shared online, analyzed by YouTubers and content creators. Thousands of strangers had become incredibly invested in trying to prove Laura's lies, like the woman who goes by the username Schnitzel Ninja.

I found out about Mike Maricini early on in the coverage of the case, and his court documents had been obtained from the San Francisco courthouse, and I went through those and The story just did not make sense to me.

If Mike went through something similar to what Clayton was going through, he could be the key to finally exposing Laura's pattern.

To find out there was this other person who actually dated her for a year and a half, my mind was blown.

But first, someone needed to reach out and see if Mike would be willing to talk.

So I sent him a fairly lengthy message just explaining who I was, why I was reaching out. That I was sorry he had been through what he had been through, and wondering if he was willing or interested in talking. And I wanted to give him more information about the case if he hadn't heard yet. That was the other thing— did he even know about Clayton? I didn't even know for sure at the time if he knew about Greg Gillespie. I reached out to him to see if he wanted to have a conversation with me, not expecting that he would, but it turned out he did.

She wanted to be transparent about who she was, so she messaged from her personal account instead of her anonymous username.

I was thinking about the fact that Mike had been through this himself. He was a real person who had been through this experience, so I wanted to put that personal touch on my reaching out to him so it wasn't just a random person behind a screen or behind a phone. The next time I looked at my phone, I saw a message from him, and I couldn't believe it.

They started messaging. Making contact with Mike was a turning point for Schnitzel Ninja.

I started feeling more compelled to be involved when I found out about Mike Maracini. It's my opinion that she was lying about everything she claimed he did to her.

Schnitzel Ninja had seen the TEDx talk, and she didn't believe Laura's story.

If this were someone I cared about, I would hope that if someone had the time or the resources, whatever they had to give to help, I would hope that they would help. And I had time and I made time. So Mike was really the case that kind of drew me in further.

Meanwhile, Mike was playing catch-up, reading everything he could find about Clayton and Laura's case. He couldn't believe it. And soon after he found out, Mike decided to DM Clayton.

It's like, hey, I don't even know if you're going to see this. You got a lot of followers. I'm going to probably go into the message abyss. "but I just wanna say how sorry I am that you're dealing with this individual. I've dealt with her, and I'm so sorry. If you ever wanna talk, I'm more than happy to chat." And within 2 minutes, he responds. And I remember it starts off, he goes, "I know exactly who you are." And he wants to set up a phone call.

So Mike and Clayton hopped on the phone.

It was surreal at first to obviously find out that there's now another individual that went through this. But my story really paled in comparison to Mike because Mike actually dated Laura, which was mind-blowing when I found that out. And to know that he had been going through this for 6+ years, I mean, this is an ongoing battle he was facing. And the great thing, as I found out very quickly, was he had incredible support from his wife that was helping him through this troubling time. But ultimately, he wanted to reach out and let me know that I wasn't alone. And the beautiful thing was, is that his story was going to help me out so much. I did ask him a question of if he had saved anything from that time with Laura, whether he had any any photos or texts or anything of the matter.

When Mike connected with him, Clayton was preparing for his family court trial with Laura, the same one you heard about in episode 7.

I told him, I was like, hey, I don't really have anything.

Mike spent years trying to put enough space between himself and the chaos Laura created.

I deleted every photo with this person. I want nothing to do with this individual. Individual. I deleted all my text messages from my phone. I have nothing to be able to offer you guys. I can just be there as, like, support.

In the lead-up to Clayton's family court trial, he and his lawyers were looking for verifiable evidence of Laura's pattern. So Clayton pushed Mike to take a second look.

I'll never forget, I was talking with Clayton And he said, like, "Do you have, like, a laptop or anything? Like, sometimes iCloud will store this information for you." So I go and I look at my storage unit. I'm like, "Oh, I still have this thing." It's completely dead.

Mike didn't even have a charger for his old laptop. His wife Danielle had to track one down on Facebook Marketplace.

I have no idea if there's anything on it, so I'm just cracking this thing open for fun.

Somehow Dave Neal heard about Mike's laptop, and he heard it might have some messages from Laura Owens on it. Here's Dave Neal.

When I think of Mike's laptop, I just think of it like sitting alone in a giant room in a museum with just a spotlight sitting on it.

Dave got in touch with Mike.

And he's like, listen, I'm afraid to open it. My iCloud, it might delete things. I don't know what's in there. But he was like, I think I have text messages from Laura. And boy, he had no idea what was in that laptop.

When they finally powered it on—

It's got everything. Absolutely everything. Every message that has ever been sent to and from. Every photo. Every single item.

Immediately, Dave Neal jumped in to help. First priority was making sure everything on that laptop was backed up. Second, if any of Mike's evidence was ever going to be used in court, it would need to be authenticated by a computer forensics expert, which would run about $3,500. Dave had been covering Laura's story for about a year. He knew how Laura operated when confronted with proof.

He couldn't just present an email from her. She'd say it was made up. Someone hacked in, dog ate my homework. She's made every claim to get out of everything. So we said, we need to hire someone who's a professional that goes into court and tells other people this is real.

You already know what Dave's about to do next.

So we do a fundraiser. Before I hit publish on the livestream, before like we went live, we already hit the $3,500.

With the funds secured, Mike got in the car and drove about an hour away to meet the forensic expert. Here's Mike.

I felt like I was holding, like, a newborn baby. I was, like, gripping it so tight that I was just like, please do not drop this. Do not get in a car accident. Because I had to drive it, like, an hour to this individual to authenticate it.

When the report came back, the data was verified. The text messages Mike had from Laura were genuine and unaltered.

We got the report back. It was legitimately, like, 2,500 pages. And there's just absolutely no way she can deny that this exists.

That was the first moment where I really just felt like people believed in me and wanted to see my innocence be shown and like the truth to come out because I had been fighting her for so long.

In helping Clayton's defense, Mike was finding validation he didn't know he needed. He was grateful for the community who believed and supported him.

I'll never forget that moment. It was really, really powerful for me. I just— I'm so thankful for the community, for what they did.

So many of the discoveries you've heard about in the last few episodes were all coming together in the 2 months before Clayton's trial. Content creators Dave Neal and Megan Fox discovering the Fiverr logo on the ultrasound, the altered HCG test, Chase J. Jones, and now Mike's laptop.

All of the evidence seemingly came out at the same time. It was almost like Laura had this dam that she was holding up with her own hands. The leaks were coming out and she was very much like a cartoon, just doing her best, duct taping this thing shut. And then this laptop came out of nowhere.

Dave was talking about the case almost every day on his podcast and YouTube channel.

We always say sunlight's the greatest disinfectant. Everybody get all the information any information you have, bring it to light. You might have something that looks stupid, bring it up, let the public see. There's 10,000 people watching this. Someone's gonna see something you don't see.

That's exactly what happened. As the internet sleuths pored through documents, they found another man, a fourth man. All they had was a first name, Matt, but journalist Megan Fox tracked him down. I find people a lot. I can find people. Finding him was one of the toughest things that I've done as a journalist. It turns out Matt and Laura met about 2 years before she met Mike Maraccini. So I basically got on Instagram and I sent everybody connected to him a message asking him to contact me because of this story that was happening. He got back to Megan, or rather had his lawyer get back to Megan. Matt said he didn't want anything to do with Laura Owens, but in Laura's deposition with Greg Woodnick, she volunteered the information that there was a fourth man.

How many men have you told that you were pregnant by them?

Uh, total of 4.

Okay, I want to go through them. Mike Marascini?

Correct.

How many times did you tell Mike Marascini you were pregnant by him?

Uh, twice.

Greg Gillespie?

Once.

Clayton Eckert?

Once.

Who's the fourth man?

Um, his name was Matt.

You recall what year this was?

Uh, 2014, 2015.

How did that pregnancy end?

Um, that ended with a miscarriage.

How far along were you, allegedly?

Um, I was maybe 6 weeks.

Was there ever a suggestion from Matt that the pregnancy was fabricated?

Um, yes.

Matt suggested your pregnancy was fabricated?

Yes.

4 men have alleged that you have claimed to be pregnant by them and that it was a lie, correct?

Correct. We've reached out to Matt for comment and didn't receive a reply. There's been a lot of online speculation about him. From what I've heard, Matt wants to stay far away from this story, which I completely understand. So out of respect for his choice, we're not going into any further details about him. A week before Clayton's family court trial, The witness list was published. As you know, Greg Gillespie and Mike Maraccini were on the list. Even though Mike was subpoenaed, he still worried about what Laura would do if he showed up. He hadn't seen Laura in over 5 years, but she still had an active domestic violence restraining order against him. Here's Mike's wife, Danielle. He goes, "What if I get arrested, Danielle?" When Mike and Danielle arrived at Clayton's trial, You'll remember Laura's attorney called 911 and tried to report that Mike was violating his restraining order.

My nervous level went through the roof. He is on the phone with 911 rattling off my details of what I'm wearing, my height, what color my shirt is, what color my shoes are. So then I'm fully rattled.

Clayton's lawyer, Woodnick, tried to reassure Mike and Danielle.

I just remember Woodnick being like, we've got you. Don't worry. You have a subpoena. They cannot do anything. This is a courthouse. You have a right to be here.

Woodnick was right. Mike and Danielle took a seat in the back. His heart was racing. After everything he'd been through with Laura, the last place he wanted to be was in the same room as her.

I just really am scared of her more than she's scared of me.

Danielle held his hand as Laura entered the courtroom.

To see the man who is my protector, not just of me, but of my daughters now, just crumble in fear to this person is such an infuriating feeling. And when she walked in, my husband was just a shaking mess.

My wife probably stared at her the entire 30 minutes she was up there, but I never made eye contact and I never laughed during her ridiculous comments.

Mike didn't know if they would have time to call him to the stand because the trial was timed, but if they did, he was ready.

I originally went to the June 10th hearing with full intention to testify.

In the end, there wasn't time in the trial to hear Mike's testimony, but when he and Danielle reflect on what happened at the trial—

when I saw Laura get cross-examined and get completely crushed, it made my mood much, much better because they just caught her in so many different lies.

When she had the balls to say that actually she had gone to a different Planned Parenthood that they didn't subpoena. That was probably one of the more memorable moments sitting in there.

Even though they didn't have time to call Mike in the trial, his presence there made a difference to Clayton.

It was really great to have their support in the courtroom. And for me also, just to have a strong individual like Mike in my corner that validated everything that I had been through and was also willing to fight alongside me. That's why it was so important for me to have him there.

Mike and Danielle remember exactly where they were when they read the judge's ruling in Clayton's family court case.

I felt like finally a piece of this empire that she had built had been dismantled. I was like, this judge is not having it.

Laura thought there was no repercussions, so that's why she thought she could just keep lying and getting away with it. And now she's paying the price.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one: Rule 1: Never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.

And rule 2: Never mess with her friends either.

We always say that. Trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends—

Oh my God, this is the same man.

A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands.

I said, oh hell no. I vowed I will be his last target.

He's gonna get what he deserves.

Listen to The Girlfriends: Trust Me, Babe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up everyone? I'm Ego Voda. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell.

Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo.

My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day and I, I was like, and Dad, I think I wanna really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the Groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place they come look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.

Yeah.

He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspir— it would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be right.

It wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of love.

Yeah.

Listen to Thanks, Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In 2023, former Bachelor star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct?

I doctored the test once.

It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for.

Sunlight's the greatest disinfectant.

They would uncover a disturbing pattern: two more men who'd been through the same thing.

Greg Gillespie and Michael Marancini.

My mind was blown.

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped.

Laura, Scottsdale Police.

As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news out of Maricopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges.

This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona.

Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 10, 10 shots fired, City Hall building.

A silver.40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene.

From iHeart Podcasts and Best Case Studios, this is Rorschach: Murder at City Hall.

How could this have happened in City Hall?

Somebody tell me that.

July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest. Both men were carrying concealed weapons and in less than 30 minutes both of them will be dead!

Pow pow!

Everybody in the chambers ducks!

A shocking public murder—

I screamed get down, get down those are shots, those are shots, get down!

—a charismatic politician—

you know he just bent the rules a little bit there—

I still have a weapon, and I could shoot you.

And an outsider with a secret.

He alleged he was a victim of a slapdown. That may or may not have been political. It may have been about sex.

Listen to Rorschach: Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

We're going to pick up where we left off at the end of Clayton's family court trial. After the judge's stern ruling, you might think that Laura would self-reflect. Instead, she responded with indignation. She began a campaign against the family court judge who'd ruled against her, Judge Mata. It all started with a Medium blog post. The day after Judge Mata's ruling, Laura published this on her Medium account. It's titled "When Judges Play Doctor: Ignoring 99.9% Medical Certainty for 0.1% Doubt." We're having a voice actor read an excerpt from it.

On June 18th, the court ruled that a pregnant woman cannot be considered pregnant unless a judge agrees she is. Yes. You read that correctly. Apparently, in a twist of medical and judicial logic, it is now up to the courts, not doctors, to diagnose pregnancy. Despite medical evidence and a 99.9% certainty from an OB-GYN who has delivered more than 22,000 babies that I was pregnant, Judge Mata chose to believe the 0.1% chance that my multiple positive pregnancy tests were due to something other than pregnancy. "To add insult to injury, she has referred me to the Maricopa County Attorney for prosecution.

Yes, you also read that correctly." Laura's blog post goes on to quote Judge Mata's ruling, citing passages and describing why the judge got it wrong.

When I found out I was pregnant, I was lost and I didn't know what to do. My depression worsened, making it nearly impossible to think clearly or make decisions. In the ruling, the judge wrote, "The court finds failure to seek in-person care for a high-risk pregnancy to be both unreasonable and uncredible." This cold assessment ignored the severe depression I was grappling with, which made every moment of my pregnancy an emotional battlefield. In all honesty, the medical care choices I made weren't what I would have chosen in ideal circumstances. If this had been an expected pregnancy, I would have definitely sought proper care. But the circumstances were far from ideal, and the way Clayton treated me was terrible, leading to a restraining order being granted against him. The judge's opinion on what a reasonable person would have done doesn't take this into account, nor does it recognize the immense pressure I was under. Judge Mata then claimed that I have a pattern of similar, if not identical, behavior and referred the case to the Maricopa County Attorney's Office for review. Really? This was the first and only paternity case I have filed. The legal issues involving two of my exes were entirely different.

Yes, I was pregnant by both and had abortions, but the legal matters were unrelated to paternity.

A few weeks after the ruling came down, Laura and her attorney filed to have Judge Mata removed from their case. They alleged that the judge was biased and prejudiced against Laura. And therefore unable to preside over the case. I asked Clayton's lawyer, Greg Woodnick, about Laura's claim.

Judge Mata issued a very thoughtful, very detailed, multi-page ruling. After that ruling came out, there was a filing by Ms. Owens suggesting there was some sort of impropriety on the court level by the court, and that motion ended up getting addressed not by the trial court judge, but by the head of the Maricopa County Superior Court Family Law Division. And that judge disagreed with the filing by Ms. Owens completely.

That didn't stop Laura from taking it a step further. On November 11th, 2024, she officially filed her appeal with the Arizona Court of Appeals.

Briefs were filed by Laura. We filed responsive briefs. I think they filed some sort of reply to that. Which they would be allowed to do at the appellate level. And then the Court of Appeals ruled on it, denying all of Laura's requests for relief.

The decision from the Arizona Court of Appeals stated Owen's position on appeal is unreasonable.

Laura wasn't happy with that, so she filed a motion for reconsideration, asking the Court of Appeals again to reconsider their ruling. And again, they affirmed their denial. So the Court of Appeals essentially rejected the argument twice. They also ordered attorney's fees.

Laura had already been knocked down twice, but she was still at it. Keep in mind, this was after Laura had been referred to the Maricopa County Attorney's Office. But Laura had a right, as does any litigant, to ask that the Court of Appeals' decisions be reviewed by a higher court. So that's what she did.

Essentially, she asked the Arizona Supreme Court to consider it, and the Arizona Supreme Court declined to consider it and also ordered attorney's fees.

Multiple judges had now ruled against Laura. Each time, her bill increased.

She had an attorney's fees award in the trial court, the court of appeals, and ultimately the Arizona Supreme Court.

That total came out to around $196,000. And at the time I'm recording this, Laura hasn't paid that balance.

I don't think she ever intended on paying it anyway. And the reason I say that is I think there was a video recording of her and her attorney where they announced on a YouTube video that they produced that she had no intention of ever paying it.

Here's the YouTube video Woodnick is referencing. You'll hear Laura's attorney first.

By the way, you can tell me if I'm not allowed to say this, but people are asking, when are you going to pay Clayton? Are you going to pay Clayton? Um, I hope that you never pay Clayton. People think he's gonna put you in jail. We don't do that in America. If you have millions of dollars stashed away, he can go look for it. If you don't, he ain't getting nothing. You could file bankruptcy, or you could just not But either way, there's no legal requirement for you to post a bond. All that means is he can go after you and collect. But if you don't have the money to be collected— I don't. Yeah, well, then guess what? You get blood from a stone or you don't. So we're not going to post a bond for anything. You're not going to jail for nonpayment. That is not an option. And Clayton can just fuck off and do whatever he's doing. I still wish the guy well-ish. I mean, I'd want him to get some therapy and figure out, like, why am I such a dick?

In the middle of the appeal process, Laura's attorney David Gingras started posting YouTube videos. Some of them feature Laura. You heard clips from these in episode 2. I'm going to take a detour into these videos for a moment. Let's start with this one from January 2025. I am David.

You are Laura. You are Laura. And we are the dynamic duo of disaster, uh, here to bring you A little bit of a post-holiday treat, shall we say?

You won't be surprised to learn that these videos have since been taken off YouTube. But things posted on the internet have a way of sticking around. This specific one was posted on X. Okay, so we're recording.

Hello everyone. It's Douche Canoe and Pregnancy Faker. Yeah. We have just— I think you're supposed to look at the camera. See, I'm I'm not a professional, you are.

David Gingras joined Laura's case right before the trial with Clayton. According to Gingras, they didn't know each other before that. She reached out to him cold. Within less than a year, they began posting videos like these on David Gingras's YouTube channel.

I feel like you and I are sort of Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia, and, you know, Dave Neal's Darth Vader, or, you know, other people are Jabba the Hutt. I'm not going to say who.

In total, they posted about 5 videos together on YouTube. Gingras posted another 20 or so with just him on the mic. In this video from December 2024, he addresses why he's doing these in the first place.

The YouTube comment section, it's a really mixed bag of people saying, why are you doing this? Why are you, you know, throwing more fuel or oxygen on the fire? Are you really helping Laura's interests? Are you putting Laura's interests first? And, you know, people— I understand the criticism, but at the same time, you know, there is no playbook. It's a bizarre situation that we're in.

I can't tell whose idea it was to make these videos. They were posted on Gingras's YouTube channel, but Laura's clearly an active participant.

You obviously approve whatever I post, and I'm doing this for you. I think I'm doing it for you.

Some of the things they say are downright surreal.

I was dating a guy from my high school who was my friend in high school, and I dated him through pretty much the end of senior year.

Is that somebody that we know about, or we can keep his name out of this if we—

I think he's known as Victim Zero, although we never slept together, so.

Well, that doesn't stop you from getting pregnant, as we know. That's true. Ba dum bum, rim shot. You're absolutely right.

In this one from December 13th, 2024, Jingles is wearing a Santa suit complete with a beard. Behind him is a bag of coal with a list of names on it. The first names on the list, Dave and Megan, presumably content creators Dave Neal and Megan Fox.

I mean, look, it's Laura, it's Christmas time. I've got a naughty list here. Of people that will be getting lumps of coal.

I love your naughty list.

I know, I had to do it.

The video is titled Bachelor Paternity Scandal: Laura Confesses All to Santa. Did you ever see that movie Fatal Attraction?

Glenn Close? That might have been before your time. I didn't. So again, I'm a lot older than you. So that movie was actually, you know, I don't forget what year it came out, 1989, '90, something like around that time. So you were like zero. But that movie was kind of terrifying for a lot of people, um, you know, because Glenn Close plays this woman who's like obsessed with Michael Douglas and she stalks him. They have one hookup and then she completely stalks him and his family. He's married, um, and they— they— she winds up boiling the bunny, the guy, the family bunny. They— she boils it on the stove. Did you— did you know that? No. You ever heard that phrase, bunny boiler? No. No. So it comes from that movie because Glenn Close is obsessed with Michael Douglas, and he doesn't want to have a relationship with her because he's cheating on his wife, basically is what happened. And Glenn Close doesn't take no for an answer, so she keeps stalking him, breaking into his house or whatever. And she broke in and stole the family bunny and boiled it in a pot on the stove.

I feel like people think that you're in that ballpark, okay? So let's, let's try to talk about why you're not.

Here's another clip from the Santa video.

We talked about the fact that filing a paternity case if you knew that you weren't pregnant would be the dumbest thing you could do. It wouldn't work, for one thing, and it would guarantee you that your lie would be exposed as quickly as possible. And I've said before that it's like a drunk driver, a guy, you know that you're shit-faced drunk, and you deliberately go up to a cop and you say, "Hey, bro, can you test me?" ever do. No person. I mean, I guess, I guess if you were mentally ill or so drunk that you forgot your name, that might make sense to you. I don't see that in you, Laura. I don't see you as being a crazy person. Um, you're a little different. I'm a little different. Everyone's a little different. But you're smart enough, I think, to know that filing a paternity case when you know that you're not pregnant, when you know that you faked the whole thing, when you know that there is no sonogram, when you know that there is no baby, you are literally inviting the court to test you, right? Right. You are exposing yourself to being exposed unnecessarily.

The whole time, Laura is smiling and nodding along, like she and Gingras are in on the same joke.

And for you to go straight to court, you're either— you were either pregnant or you're crazy. It's one or the other. If you're crazy, You know, at some point we're gonna figure this out. I just, in 8 months, I haven't seen it. And maybe I am blind.

Most attorneys advise their clients to keep quiet. In this case, Laura's attorney is actually doing most of the talking and putting it on the internet. I asked Clayton's attorney, Greg Woodnick, about these videos.

It was bizarre. And colleagues would say to me, you know, what the fuck? My response was, "I don't know. I've never seen anything like this before." So if your question is how common this is, the answer is never. I've never seen this before. I can tell you the chorus of communications I have received from attorneys in this community has been unanimous regarding how unique their presentation has been on social media.

As you'll recall, After Judge Mata's ruling in the June 10th family court trial, she referred Laura's case to the county attorney, a woman named Rachel Mitchell. In one of these videos, Laura and Gingras address the criminal investigation and even joke about what might be on the horizon.

You and I are on a journey together here. We're gonna get there. We're gonna get through hopefully Christmas. Laura, if Rachel Mitchell comes knocking, if the journey involves a stop through Rachel Mitchell territory. That's okay. You'll come out the other side. Donald Trump has been indicted 4 times. He's going to the White House. You know, I mean, anyway, it's Christmas time, people, and I just think it's time to move on. You know, I hope, I hope that Rachel Mitchell doesn't give you shiny new bracelets as your Christmas present.

On the next episode of Love Trapped, Laura was in for a rude awakening. She was about to find out how serious county attorney Rachel Mitchell was. In January 2025, Laura got a knock on her door.

Laura, Scottsdale Police.

And it wasn't even 7:00 in the morning.

I'm on the phone with my attorney. I'll put him on the phone right now. This is my attorney, David Tingris. My David Gingras. I don't know who you guys are, and it's not even 7. Do they have authority to search before 7 o'clock in the morning?

The police are there, Laura. You need to let them do whatever they're going to do.

¡Gracias! Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to follow Love Trapped on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And please leave us a review. A 5-star rating helps others find this show. We're grateful for your support. If you would like to reach out to the Love Trapped team or have a similar story to share, email us at lovetrappedpod@gmail.com. That's lovetrappedpod@gmail.com. Love Trapped is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeartPodcasts. This show was executive produced by Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning, and Ben Federman. Written, produced, and hosted by me, Stephanie Young. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. Producer on this episode is Sydney Gladue. Additional production support from Todd Ganz. Our production manager is Kristen Malkiri. For iHeart Podcasts, Ally Perry was our executive producer. Audio editing and mastering by Anna McClain. Additional editing support by Tanner Robbins and Matt Del Vecchio. Thank you to our voice actor, Leslie Tolley. This podcast was developed in collaboration with Danny Passman and Lev Abramov at Crybaby Media. The Love Trapped theme is composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by MIB Music. A special thanks to Carrie Lieberman, Will Pearson, Jessica Kreinchek, Allie Kanter, and the entire iHeart podcast team.

And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands.

I vowed I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that, trust your girlfriends.

Listen to The Girlfriends: Trust Me, Babe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Boda. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell.

My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspir— it would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be, right?

It wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of life. Yeah.

Listen to Thanks, Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct?

I doctored the test once.

It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing.

Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini. My mind was blown.

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 10-10, shots fired, City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that.

A shocking public murder.

This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.

I screamed, get down, get down!

Those are A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery that may or may not have been political.

It may have been about sex.

Listen to Rorschach: Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an iHeartRadio podcast. Guaranteed human.