Transcript of These are Yes or No Questions | EP 7

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, it's Nora Jones, and my podcast Playing Along is back with more of my favorite musicians. Check out my newest episode with Josh Groban. You related to the Phantom at that point?

Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that.

That's so funny.

Sherry, stay with me each night, each morning.

Listen to Nora Jones Is Playing Along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.

You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct?

I doctored the test once.

It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing.

Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini.

My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young, this is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

10-10, shots fired, City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that.

A shocking public murder.

This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.

I screamed, get down, get down. Those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery that may or may not have been political. It may have been about sex.

Listen to Rorschach: Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If you're watching the latest season of The Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down.

Portia accusing Kelly of sleeping with a married man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues.

On the podcast Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise. The drama, the alliances, and the tea everybody's talking about. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey everyone, before we start this episode, I want to let you know that this one includes some graphic descriptions of pregnancy loss as well as allegations of sexual assault. On June 10th, 2024, the Laura Owens and Clayton Eckard paternity case finally went to trial. This was the definitive legal showdown everyone had been waiting for. But before Clayton's attorney, Greg Woodnick, could even walk into the courtroom, he was met with a surprise.

We walked into the courthouse, and my team was walking through security. I turned to my right, and kind of right up next to me is Laura's attorney. And he says something to the extent as, we need to talk now. I'm calling the police now.

At first, Woodnick didn't understand what was going on. It appeared that Laura's attorney was calling the police.

I felt my blood pressure racing that he was suggesting he was calling the police in a courthouse.

There were plenty of police and security guards already present. It was a courthouse. But today seemed to be different. Maybe it's because their trial involved a high-profile person. Or maybe something else was going on. Woodnick watched in confusion as Laura's attorney began to unravel right in front of him.

He was, like, running back and forth. Like, I remember seeing him go from the security station towards the courtroom, and it was kind of frantic. And we were just, like, standing there like, what the fuck? This is weird.

Woodnick stepped away from his team to investigate. It turned out Laura had a problem with someone who'd been subpoenaed to testify.

If I recall correctly, her attorney said, I'm not sure if she's even going to go into the courtroom because she's so scared. And I think that he'd called 911.

Laura said she was too scared to enter the courtroom. She had a protective order against both Clayton and Greg Gillespie, who were already there. But her panic on the morning of the trial was about someone else, another man she had a restraining order against. Someone she'd known for years before Clayton or Greg.

I was confused. I said, what the hell are you talking about? They are subpoenaed. Judge Mata already granted their permission to testify.

Maybe Laura didn't actually expect this man to show up, but Woodnick had subpoenaed him for a reason.

I think Laura had a problem with anyone coming in and sharing the fact that there were multiple prior victims who had very similar situations happen to them. I think she's doing everything she could to avoid the court hearing testimony from these individuals.

I'm Stephanie Young, and this is Love Trapped. There's no way out.

You better believe I'll be raising holy hell, my love. If you ever, ever, ever, ever try to leave.

On the morning of Clayton's paternity trial, Laura claimed she was too scared of one of the witnesses to go into the courtroom. She had her attorney call 911, but after a quick meeting in the judge's chambers, It was decided that the trial would move ahead. The energy in the courthouse was tense. Clayton felt it as soon as he arrived.

I had been to this court a couple of times because Laura would bring me there for prior hearings. And this time, I drive in, and there's armed guards, like, right when I'm driving in. And then I get out of my car, and I see a couple more of them. And I'm thinking, what is going on? Like, this feels too high profile.

That morning, the parking lot was buzzing. Many of the online detectives who'd been following every twist of this case had descended upon the courthouse in Phoenix, Arizona.

As far as people that had been covering the case, there was Dave Neal. There was Megan Fox. There was probably 50 people. That were part of the Justice for Clayton community that were there. And that's when it hit me that I was like, wow, I have a tremendous amount of support.

The virtual community had suddenly become an in-person one. Many of them had been in the parking lot since 6:00 AM preparing for the trial day. It was basically a tailgate. Content creator Megan Fox is one of the many people who flew in. We got up very early in the morning. I think it started at 8:00, and we needed to be there to set up our equipment, the camera and everything in the courtroom.

Dave beat me there.

He was already there. Dave Neal was the unofficial leader of Clayton supporters. He'd been following the story since the beginning.

I knew I needed to be there to see this thing to the finish line. It wasn't a question.

On the day of the trial, Dave set up a tent in the parking lot where he had a livestream feed going, giving commentary and analysis. He also brought a media sprinter van. The whole scene had a major sporting event vibe. Dave was joined by his old friend Reality Steve, who'd also been covering the story since the beginning.

It was something that had consumed a lot of my time from September of 2023 on. Went out there to support Dave because he was the champion of all this.

The court only allowed one camera to livestream the trial. A few months earlier, content creator Lauren Knighty had put her name on the list.

I was wondering how people get access to stream court cases, so I just went to the website basically on Maricopa County for the family court, and there was a form you could fill out basically to stream it. And so I put in my information, but I wasn't expecting anything.

Lauren had no idea that by filling out that form, she was about to become the eyes and ears for the entire online community. It was a role she took seriously. She was personally offended by Laura's alleged lies and wanted everyone to know the truth.

I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Why this was such a big deal. And everyone who had blamed Clayton or said, why don't you just shut up about this? You've already got people to know that she lied. I wanted them to see the extent of it. I wanted them to see that in real time and to understand the gravity of what this woman is willing to do, the lengths that she's willing to go to, and the way she's willing to guilt people and confuse their emotions in order to get away with what she's doing. And so the court reached out to me and they said, would you like to stream it? And I said, yeah, because I was going to be there anyways.

So Lauren set up her camera on row 1. She'd be recording everything and livestreaming it to thousands of people. At 8:45 AM, they opened the courtroom doors. Immediately, the room filled up with people there to support Clayton.

I think I realized this is more impactful than what I would have thought.

Clayton knew the trial was important, but it was another thing to see the room packed with his supporters, people who believed him. Laura's side of the room was noticeably sparse.

It was her mom and her medical expert. That was it. Dad wasn't there. Sister wasn't there. No friends. And I think that, to me, also spoke volumes. I know it did. I know when we walked into that courtroom and you had my side of the courtroom that was packed out, that had overflow, and then you had her side, which ended up being taken over by people that had came to support me.

Clayton felt the gravity of the moment.

I wasn't nervous because it's bigger than me, so I just need to show up as me.

Surrounded by a packed room of supporters and spectators, the trial that everyone had been waiting for finally got underway.

This is the time set in FC 2023-052114. Appearances, please, beginning first with petitioner's counsel.

Good morning, Your Honor. David Gingras on behalf of Laura Owens.

Just a few months earlier, Laura Owens brought a new attorney onto the case, David Gingras. You'll recognize him from earlier in our story. He's the lawyer who collaborated with Laura on a series of YouTube videos. Laura had gone through a few attorneys before she found Gingras. In fact, her previous counsel, the one who was with her at her deposition, dropped her as a client. That attorney went on to file a notice of candor, a formal truth correction used when a lawyer realizes the court has been misled. In it, he changed his stance on the truthfulness of Laura's claims and formally retracted his statement that Laura had not lied to the court. So for the trial on June 10th, Laura was joined by her new counsel, David Gingras. As for Clayton's team, good morning, Judge.

Rick Woodnick.

I'm here for Clayton Echard. Also with me is my co-counsel, D'Angerina, and Isabel Rani.

Each party will be given 50 minutes. We will take a 10-minute break roughly halfway through. I allow 10 minutes for technical difficulties because they just happen to everybody.

It was a bench trial, meaning there was no jury. It was just the two opposing counsels presenting their cases to Judge Motta. And critically, the trial was timed. The judge put a 2-hour limit on the whole proceeding. These kind of time limits are standard in Arizona family court. It forces both sides to present their cases efficiently.

You learn to get to the good stuff fast.

Woodnick had prepared Clayton to work within the time constraints.

He's like, we are going to have a time limit. He's like, you also talk a lot. I need you to give quick answers, just like snap, snap, snap, snap.

With the clock ticking, David Gingras called his first witness to the stand.

Your Honor, call Laura Owens.

This was her direct examination, her and her attorney's chance to tell her side of the story.

Laura, how are you feeling?

Um, nervous.

Okay, just breathe and we'll get through this really quick, okay?

Laura's attorney started with the basic timeline of events, and right away, Laura made a staggering admission.

Let me go back to the night of May 20th. In your deposition, you said that Clayton actually had sexual intercourse with you. Do you recall that?

Yes.

And was that true?

Yes.

Did you tell him that night that you did not want to have sex?

Yes.

And did he honor that request?

No.

Since the beginning, Clayton has told the same story about the night of May 20th. He says that he invited her over, they both took an edible, and they had consensual oral sex. 6 days later, public records show that Laura messaged a pregnancy support line. Looking for Plan B. Laura wrote, quote, "This past week, I was consensually intimate with a partner, although we did not have intercourse." But now, a year later, Laura told the court that Clayton raped her.

I remember when she said it, I just felt this massive wave of anger overtake my body. And I remember clenching my fist and just closing my eyes because at that point I just had to defuse the anger. I think I sat there for probably 3 or 4 minutes, but it was such a dump of adrenaline. I was fighting my body in that moment.

The focus shifted right back to Laura and the pregnancy test she took.

Those 3 tests, did you do anything at all to tamper with the results of those tests?

No.

Did you take any drugs, hormones, or any substance at all to affect the outcome?

No.

Did you use someone else's urine to, to change the outcome?

No.

That was the moment Laura went on the record denying she had ever altered a pregnancy test during the time she claimed to be pregnant with Clayton's babies. Then her attorney David Gingras addressed the contradictions in Laura's deposition head-on, the most glaring one being that she'd admitted under oath to altering a sonogram Using Adobe Acrobat.

Did you have a sonogram done in California?

Yes, I did.

And where was that done?

Planned Parenthood.

And you understand, and I'm sure Mr. Woodnick will ask you about this, Planned Parenthood has not been able to verify that you were ever seen there. You understand that?

Yes.

Can you explain that?

Yes, I went under a fake name when I went there.

Okay.

And you had a sonogram done. Did you ever present that sonogram as evidence in any court proceeding anywhere?

No.

We have obviously presented it in this case. But you've admitted already that you changed the name at the top or the location. Did you change the name at the top of the sonogram?

Of the location? Yes.

Why did you do that?

I changed it because Mr. Eckard was being threatening towards me, and I didn't want him to know where I had gone and try to track down my providers.

Laura's attorney then addressed the big question: what came of her pregnancy?

After the sonogram in California, Around July 23rd, did something happen in terms of you passing tissue or anything like that?

Yes.

Can you explain briefly what happened on July 23rd?

Yeah, I wasn't having any symptoms at all, but I did pass tissue that looked like it could have potentially been a miscarriage, but I, I wasn't sure.

Did you seek any medical care after July 23rd, after the tissue passed?

Yes.

Related to that?

Yes.

What did you do?

Um, I texted a hot hotline for pregnancy and miscarriage questions, and I also did an appointment with the telemedicine doctor as well.

Okay, and what information did they give you, if any?

They told me that I needed to monitor myself, but that they felt like unless I had more symptoms, I didn't need to worry that it was a miscarriage.

On November 2nd, Laura had told the judge in Clayton's restraining order hearing that she was 24 weeks pregnant. But now she was claiming in court that she'd had a miscarriage on July 23rd. In the direct examination, neither Laura or her attorney addressed this massive inconsistency.

For the last time, were you pregnant with Clayton?

Yes.

Did you think that you were pregnant with Clayton?

Yes.

Do you have any reason to think that you weren't when you filed this case?

No.

Did you lie about being pregnant with Clayton?

No.

No further questions, Your Honor.

With the direct questioning over, the floor belonged to DeAndra Arena for the much anticipated cross-examination.

Good morning, Ms. Hobbs.

Good morning.

You understand that you're currently under oath and must testify truthfully today, correct?

Correct.

And you understand the difference between the truth and a lie, right?

Obviously, yes.

But Clayton's attorney, Greg Woodnick, didn't think that was so obvious.

Laura is a tough witness. Laura has her own agenda when you ask her questions. And she's got a confidence about her, which is interesting because she can confidently answer a question with a completely bullshit answer.

Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past 2 seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Laevay, Mavis Staples, Remy Wolf, Jeff Tweedy— really too many to name. And this season, I've sat down with Alessia Cara, Sarah McLachlan, John Legend, and more. Check out my new episode with Josh Groban. You related to the Phantom at that point?

Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that.

That's so funny.

Sherry, stay with me each night, each morning.

Say you love me. You know, so come hang out with us in the studio and listen to Playing Along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In 2023, former Bachelor star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth.

You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct?

I doctored the test once.

It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case.

I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for.

Sunlight's the greatest disinfectant.

They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing.

Greg Gillespie and Michael Marancini.

My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news out of Maricopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges.

This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona.

Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

10-10, shots fired, City Hall building. A silver A.40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene.

From iHeart Podcasts and Best Case Studios, this is Rorschach: Murder at City Hall.

How could this have happened at City Hall? Somebody tell me that! Jeffrey Hood did it.

July 2003. Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest. Both men are carrying concealed weapons. And in less than 30 minutes, Both of them will be dead.

Everybody in the chambers ducks.

A shocking public murder.

I scream, get down, get down, those are shots, those are shots, get down.

A charismatic politician.

You know, he just bent the rules all the time, man.

I still have a weapon and I could shoot you. And an outsider with a secret.

He alleged he was a victim of a slapdown.

That may or may not have been political. It may have been about sex.

Listen to Rorschach: Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Iris Palmer, and my new podcast is called Against All Odds, and that's exactly what the show is about— doing whatever it takes to beat the odds. Get ready to hear from some of your favorite entrepreneurs and entertainers as they share stories about defying expectations, overcoming barriers, and breaking generational patterns. I'm talking to people like award-winning actress, producer, and director Eva Longoria.

I think I had like $200 in my savings account and my mom goes, what are you gonna do? And I was like, oh, I'll figure it out. We had a one-bedroom apartment for like $400 a month and we all could not afford, like, I was like, how am I gonna make $100 a month?

I'm opening up like I've never before. For those of you who think you know me from what you've seen on social media, get ready to see a whole new side of me. Listen to Against All Odds with Iris Palmer as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The paternity trial on June 10th was just getting started. The courtroom was packed with spectators. Laura was the first on the stand, but her direct examination left quite a few unanswered questions. Clayton's attorney, Deandra Arena, was eager to jump in. Deandra had cross-examined Laura before at Clayton's restraining order hearing on November 2nd. In that one, Laura admitted under oath to being 24 weeks pregnant. This posed a big problem because now Laura told the court she miscarried back in July. Both couldn't be true. Before Deandra turned up the heat on Laura, she laid the groundwork, reminding Laura of what she said in previous hearings.

You testified that you were 100% pregnant on November 2nd. Correct?

Correct.

And you testified that you were 24 weeks pregnant specifically?

Correct.

I'd like you to take a look at your Exhibit A11, please. Miss Owens, this appointment that you attended at MomDoc on November 14th, 2023 was 12 days after I cross-examined you, right?

Correct.

And during that cross-examination, I pointed out that you had no legitimate medical medical records to support the pregnancy, right?

I mean, you said that, but I don't agree with it. No.

At this appointment, Ms. Owens, it was confirmed that you were not pregnant, correct? Correct.

Deandra knew she wasn't going to get a straight answer out of Laura, but she could try to catch her in a lie. The courtroom fell silent as Deandra turned her attention to Laura's alleged miscarriage. The thing is, the medical records didn't match Laura's testimony.

In your deposition, page 151, line 24, you claim you passed the 2 sacs which appeared to have a membrane in September or October, correct?

Correct.

But in the MomDoc records, you claim you passed the 2 sacs a few weeks after your alleged ultrasound at Planned Parenthood, right?

Um, several weeks after.

Okay, well, you would agree with me there's an inconsistency there, right? Right.

I wasn't sure what the date was.

No OB-GYN or qualified medical professional conducted an ultrasound, performed a physical examination, or performed a blood test to confirm your alleged pregnancy on or before August 1st of 2023, right?

Wrong.

Okay, let's talk about that because I suspected you would answer that this way. You claim that you had an alleged ultrasound at Planned Parenthood in Southern California, correct?

Correct.

And you testified during your deposition that the alleged ultrasound with Planned Parenthood was in Mission Viejo, California on July 7th, 2023, right?

I did say it was there. That's where I was staying at the time, in Mission Viejo.

And while being examined by your attorney You said that you went to Planned Parenthood under a fake name, right? But you didn't bother to provide our office with the alleged name that you went to Planned Parenthood under, right?

Right.

And you knew that we were seeking your records from Planned Parenthood specifically because of the alleged ultrasound that you had there, right? Right. So wouldn't it have made sense for you to provide our office with a copy or the name that you allegedly went to Planned Parenthood What name did you go to Planned Parenthood under?

I felt like the whole purpose of going to Planned Parenthood is to remain anonymous and that that's one of my protections.

Just to be clear, Laura is testifying that she had an ultrasound at a Planned Parenthood in July, which confirmed her pregnancy. But in their discovery, Woodnick and DeAndra never received any records from that appointment. Laura says it's because she went to Planned Parenthood under an anonymous name. But Deandra doesn't let this go because she's trying to establish if there are any medical records at all that could prove Laura had an in-person ultrasound exam with an OB-GYN.

I want you to take a look at Exhibit 28. Is this a true and accurate picture of the ultrasound you claim you received at Planned Parenthood in California on July of 2023?

That looks like it, yes.

And Miss Owens, this ultrasound image does not say Planned Parenthood. It says SMIL, which I'll call SMILE for purposes of court today, correct? Correct. And in your deposition, you admitted you altered this ultrasound picture to say SMILE instead of Planned Parenthood, right?

Correct.

And you admitted in your deposition to altering this picture on the Adobe Acrobat program at your house, right?

Correct.

During the deposition, you testified the date listed here of July July 7th of 2023 was correct and hadn't been edited by you, right? Correct. But you later admit that you lied about this July 7th ultrasound date, right?

Correct.

And you executed an affidavit on April 16th of 2024 claiming the correct date for this already doctored ultrasound was actually July 2nd of 2023, correct?

Um, correct.

So I want to get this Let me get this straight, Ms. Owens. You initially claimed you had an ultrasound at Planned Parenthood on July 7th, which you doctored to say it was from Smile, right?

Correct.

Then the story changes again, and you claim that the ultrasound image should actually be dated July 2nd, 2023, right? Correct. So you changed the date on the ultrasound from July 2nd to July 7th, correct?

Correct.

And you utilized this altered or fake ultrasound to try to convince Mr. Eckert and the court and the media that you were pregnant with Mr. Eckert's twins.

This was never submitted to the court.

You're aware that Planned Parenthood has no record of an ultrasound for you, correct?

Under my real name, yes. And more.

And again, we've established you didn't provide our office with the name that you allegedly went to Planned Parenthood under, correct?

Correct.

You never attended an appointment with Planned Parenthood in this case?

Yes, I did.

The contradictions in Laura's story are maddening. If Laura had actually received an ultrasound at Planned Parenthood in July, those records would prove she was pregnant when she said she was. But Laura couldn't produce them for the courts. And she wouldn't give the courts the fake name she allegedly used at Planned Parenthood. The only thing Laura had was the ultrasound she admitted to altering on Adobe Acrobat.

Can you take a look at Exhibit B-29? This is a true and accurate copy of our request and the response from Planned Parenthood regarding your records dated April 26th, 2024, correct?

Um, correct. I don't believe I've seen this, but I have no idea.

And while you've indicated today that you went to Planned Parenthood under a fake name, this letter actually indicates that you have scheduled an appointment for July 2nd but that you failed to attend.

Correct.

It also indicates that the ultrasound image that you claimed was from Planned Parenthood was not from Planned Parenthood because it was not consistent with ultrasound images generated by their practice, right?

Um, not by the one in Mission VA. Oh, correct.

These are yes or no questions. This document states that the ultrasound image you have claimed is from Planned Parenthood is not consistent with ultrasound images generated by their practice, right?

By that practice, but as they said, I could have been seen by another different entity.

You're well aware that this request covered All of Orange County and San Bernardino County.

It didn't cover Los Angeles though.

So now you're saying you went to Planned Parenthood in Los Angeles?

Yes.

So you're telling us you went to Planned Parenthood in Los Angeles on the day of trial today?

Yes.

Okay, when did you go to Planned Parenthood in Los Angeles?

Exactly when I said I went.

When was that?

July 2nd.

You can hear DeAndra's frustration. She'd been preparing for this cross for months, but on the stand Laura was introducing new information, shifting her testimony yet again, like claiming she went to Planned Parenthood in Los Angeles, not Mission Viejo. That was a convenient correction because Clayton's attorneys hadn't subpoenaed records for the Planned Parenthoods in Los Angeles. Like we said earlier, the trial was timed. They only had 2 hours to get through everything. So DeAndra moved on to another staggering admission of Laura's.

I'd like to go back to the two SACS you passed. So again, in your deposition, you claimed you passed them in September or October, right?

Yes.

But then you changed the date and claimed that you passed these two SACS on July 23rd, 2023, right? Right. And you actually had an appointment scheduled with Dr. McPool, who you've claimed is your high-risk perinatologist, for July 24th, 2023, right?

Right, that I canceled days prior.

A perinatologist specializes in fetal medicine. Laura told the court she made an appointment with one because she had a history of multiple miscarriages.

So wouldn't you agree with me that for someone who has had miscarriages in the past and who has an alleged high-risk pregnancy, it would be prudent to attend an in-person appointment shortly after passing to sex?

Um, well, that's why I asked the doctors online.

These are yes or no questions. I see you're looking at your attorney, but you need to look at the question for me.

Okay, can you ask the question again?

Laura seemed flustered. Deandra knows how to read a witness, and she told me she picked up on Laura's physical cues.

There was a point where I noticed when I was cross-examining her that I had completely lost her eye contact. And it was very apparent to me that she was looking behind me.

The vibe in the room shifted when people realized Laura wasn't even looking at the person questioning her. Instead, she was focused on her attorney, David Jingras, who appeared to be making gestures from the sidelines. DeAndra decided to continue her cross-examination because she couldn't afford to lose any more time. Instead of stopping the clock, she just moved positions.

Okay, I'm gonna stand here because it seems like you're looking at Mr. Gingras quite a bit for guidance.

No, I don't need— I don't need guidance from my attorney. I know how to answer the questions.

DeAndra had a whole stack of documents and exhibits she wanted to get to. Given the time limitations, she had to decide on the spot which ones to focus on. One of these exhibits was an HCG test Laura claimed to have taken at a doctor's office. HCG is a hormone your body produces during pregnancy. Anything above 25 indicates a pregnancy, and as a typical pregnancy progresses, HCG levels can rise to over 200,000.

You doctored this particular test twice, Miss Owens, correct?

I doctored the test once.

Okay, and when was that?

When I tried to send it to Dave Neal to get him to stop creating harassing videos at me.

Let me explain. Months earlier, Laura had sent content creator Dave Neal a copy of her HCG test in an attempt to prove to him that she was actually pregnant. It looked like it came from a doctor's office. The thing is, Dave had already seen a copy of this same HCG test. It was publicly available on Laura's attorney's blog. But the test Dave had a copy of had a wildly different HCG level. The two tests had the same date on them, October 16th, 2023. Dave sent the copy of the test he'd received to Clayton's attorneys.

And what amount did you dock the HCG level to for that particular—

I—

it was like 102,000, I believe.

Here, Laura starts to get tripped up on her own story. She admits to altering the test and sending it to Dave, but she doesn't remember if she Photoshopped the level to be 102,000 or 131,902.

Ms. Owens, you'll recognize this as it looks like the same test from October 16th, but It has an HCG level different than what you just indicated, and it says 131,902.

Okay. Yes, that's—

So you also doctored this test?

No, I didn't know what the number was that I had made it to.

As of October 17th, 2023, when you received this test result, you had reason to believe you were not pregnant, right?

Yes. After doing some research, yes.

Okay, but then you proceeded to lie under oath at hearings before this court on October 24th, October 25th, and November 2nd, correct?

That's not correct, no.

Instead of telling the truth, you tampered with this HCG test to increase the level and offered that as support for a pregnancy to a content creator, not to the court.

On the stand, Laura's credibility was crumbling.

During the November 2nd hearing, you denied that the DNA test results came back with little to no fetal DNA, right?

Um, what?

During the November 2nd hearing, I said that the, the test was— the question is on.

One of Deandra's next questions was a real simple one. Had Laura been seen in person by a doctor during this alleged pregnancy?

You also testified on November 2nd unequivocally that your OB-GYNs were Dr. McCool and Dr. Higley, right? Right. In fact, you went so far as to state that your main OB-GYN is the perinatologist, Dr. McCool, right?

Correct.

You further testified on November 2nd that you had last seen Dr. Higley on last Friday, right?

Right.

You lied to the court when you made those statements.

I had the appointment scheduled, which you guys have.

Yes or no question.

I know, but they— it needs to be answered, correct? It needs to be answered. I had an appointment scheduled with him that I did not attend, but I did have an appointment scheduled.

Okay, so when you say you were seen by a doctor, that's not the same as having an appointment scheduled, correct?

Correct.

So we would agree that you were dishonest when you said you were physically seen by Dr. Higley the Friday before the November 2nd hearing, correct?

That's a very minor thing.

You can hear the courtroom's audible reaction.

Stop.

Stop.

Yeah, really.

Ms. Owens. You know.

I mean, if this is good, I'm not comfortable if this, if the JFC crew is gonna be having reactions, honestly.

JFC stands for Justice for Clayton. It's a term that kind of became a calling card for the online detectives. Laura often refers to anyone who questions her as part of JFC. But on that day in court, the truth was Laura got caught in her own lies.

Deandra asked her about the medical fraud, and Laura says, well, it was just a little bit. And that's when you heard everyone just groan, like, oh my God. I even did. I was like, oh my gosh, like a little bit of medical fraud, like as if we can downplay that.

Deandra remembers this moment well. She found Laura's answer very telling.

I think that response gave insight into how she views things and perhaps why we were in that situation, why the trial was happening.

Judge Motta stepped in to address the interruption.

Okay, I'm going to stop the clock at this time. Counsel, you ask questions. Ma'am, you answer the questions. I could ask the gallery to please keep your—

I think I'm still talking.

Excuse me, ma'am, keep your comments to a minimum or you will be asked to leave. Go ahead, counsel.

Miss Owens, you've never been seen by Dr. McCool or Dr. Higley for any medical appointment, correct?

Correct.

And the records from Dr. McCool's office indicate that you made 4 appointments that you never attended, correct?

Correct.

And the records from Dr. Higley's office that we obtained indicate that they have No records for you from August 2020 through the present, right?

I'm sorry, you said Dr. Higley or Dr. McCool? I'm— can I like take a minute?

You know, can we have just a 5-minute recess?

Sure, at this time. No, go ahead. What were you gonna say, counsel?

I'm just concerned about our time constraint, that's all, Your Honor.

So, well, we factored in a 10-minute break, so what we'll do is we'll take it now, and then when we come back, there will be no further breaks So that's just something for the parties to keep in mind.

All rise.

Right as things were falling apart, the court hit a pause. Once they resumed, DeAndra didn't miss a beat. She picked up the questioning exactly where she left off. Had Laura actually attended the doctor's appointments she claimed she had? And were there any records to prove it?

I want you to take a look at what's our Exhibit 17, page 110. This is a picture you took of a portion of a page from Banner, correct?

Correct.

Where is the rest of the document, Ms. Owens?

Clayton had it.

I'm asking you, where is the rest of the document in this particular exhibit?

Um, I, I don't know, but there's nothing I was trying from it. Clayton got the entire thing.

Ms. Owens, you recognize you've been accused of faking records in this case, right?

Yes.

And you expect the court to accept a picture of a portion of an alleged record?

Um, you guys got the results yourselves, so these are yes or no questions. That's not fair.

An opportunity to conduct redirect examination, and you can elaborate then.

You guys know that you have the results of this that show the same thing, so I wasn't hiding anything here. That's not fair.

I have to move on, so I'd ask that the court find this non-responsive.

The court will designate it as non-responsive.

For someone who's been involved in court cases nonstop since at least 2016—

You know what, that's not accurate. I have not been involved nonstop since—

Stop the clock for a moment, and I'm going to remind the parties: counsel, you ask a question; ma'am, you answer the question. Otherwise, We move into a different area that I don't think anyone wants to go into. Counsel, resume.

Ms. Owens, you have been involved in court cases since at least 2016, correct?

Non-stop, or are you saying since 2016? Can you just rephrase the question?

Please answer the question as I've asked it. You've been involved in court cases since 2016?

No.

Okay.

Deandra wanted to ask Laura about her case with Greg Gillespie, but her time was almost up. She concluded with a final, very memorable question.

Ms. Owens, I want to give you one more opportunity. The media is here. You know that this case has gone viral. You have an opportunity right now to come clean and start fresh. So I'm going to ask you one final time. You were never pregnant by Clayton Eckert, correct?

Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past 2 seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Laevay, Mavis Staples, Remy Wolf, Jeff Tweedy— really too many to name. And this season, I've sat down with Alessia Cara, Sarah McLachlan, John Legend, and more. Check out my new episode with Josh Groban. You related to the Phantom at that point?

Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that.

That's so funny. So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to Playing Along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In 2023, former Bachelor star Clayton Eckard found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth.

You doctored this particular test twice, Miss Owens, correct?

I doctored the test once.

It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case.

I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for.

Sunlight's the greatest disinfectant.

They would uncover a disturbing pattern: two more men who'd been through the same thing.

Greg Gillespie and Michael Marancini.

My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news out of Maricopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges.

This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona.

Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

10, 10 shots fired, City Hall building. A silver.40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene.

From iHeart Podcasts and Best Case Studios, this is Rorschach: Murder at City Hall.

How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that.

July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis Arrives at New York City Hall with a guest. Both men are carrying concealed weapons, and in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead.

Everybody in the chambers, ducks!

A shocking public murder.

I screamed, get down, get down, those are shots, those are shots, get down!

A charismatic politician.

You know, he just bent the rules I still have a weapon, and I could shoot you.

And an outsider with a secret.

He alleged he was a victim of a slapdown.

That may or may not have been political. That may have been about sex.

Listen to Rorschach: Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Iris Palmer, and my new podcast is called Against All Odds, and that's exactly what the show is about— doing whatever it takes to beat the odds.

Pods.

Get ready to hear from some of your favorite entrepreneurs and entertainers as they share stories about defying expectations, overcoming barriers, and breaking generational patterns. I'm talking to people like award-winning actress, producer, and director Eva Longoria.

I think I had like $200 in my savings account, and my mom goes, what are you gonna do? And I was like, I'll figure it out. We had a one-bedroom apartment for like $400 a month, and we all could not afford like I was like, how am I going to make $100 a month?

I'm opening up like I've never before. For those of you who think you know me from what you've seen on social media, get ready to see a whole new side of me. Listen to Against All Odds with Iris Palmer as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Clayton's attorney ended her cross-examination of Laura Owens with a jaw-dropping question.

When I asked that question at the end, like, I really wanted to give her the chance to do the right thing. Frankly, it might have been a waste of a cross-examination question because I knew how she was going to most likely answer. I still wanted to give her a chance to see. So I'm going to ask you one final time. You were never pregnant by Clayton Eckert, correct?

That is absolutely incorrect.

With Laura's testimony concluded, the trial shifted to a battle of the experts. Each side got to present expert witnesses. Laura's attorney started by calling retired OB-GYN Dr. Michael Medchill.

Mr. Eckert has said that he doesn't believe that a pregnancy was possible here because there was no intercourse. Do you have an opinion about that? Regarding general, not regarding him or her, but in general.

Well, it's said that men are like basketball players. They dribble before they shoot. They also dribble afterwards. And if you are rubbing genitalia together, it is possible to get pregnant.

As you can imagine, this dribble before you shoot moment became instantly iconic in the online community. Clayton's side called Dr. Samantha Deans, a former associate medical director at Planned Parenthood. She was there to answer one question in particular: could someone be seen by a doctor at Planned Parenthood anonymously?

Laura claimed it was anonymous and from Planned Parenthood. Any thoughts about that?

Um, patients cannot be seen anonymously at Planned Parenthood. Having been a former medical director of Planned Parenthood, PPFA, which is our national, um, guidelines require identification at the time of a visit to confirm the identity of the patient.

The patient can't be seen anonymously.

After expert witnesses, it was finally time for Clayton to take the stand. You've heard him tell his side of the story in this podcast, but this was his chance to say it under oath. Despite the pressure of the courtroom, Clayton's story remained consistent.

Clayton, I'm going to be lightning fast. State your name to the court.

Clayton Eckert.

Woodnick had prepared him well. Clayton was uncharacteristically concise.

How did you meet Laura?

Laura targeted me on LinkedIn. She asked to do real estate. We ended up exchanging contact info. She became flirtatious, sent me a provocative photo. I told her to come over, and then we saw homes the next day.

Did you have sex with Laura?

Absolutely not. I've said time and time again, she performed oral on me twice. That's it.

Have you heard other versions about what happened?

Absolutely. Many versions. She's claimed that she was raped by me. She also claims I was too high to remember what happened that day.

I'm going to repeat what you just said. She claimed you were— she was raped by you and that you were too high to remember?

That's correct.

Were you too high to remember?

Well, that's incorrect. I remember every single thing from that night.

Did you rape her?

No, I did not.

Then Woodnick asked Clayton to describe some graphic details from the night of May 20th.

You stated that she had gave you oral sex twice that evening, is that correct?

That's correct.

Where did you complete?

Her mouth both times.

What happened the second time?

She ran straight to the bathroom.

Woodnick says the reason he asked this question is because he always found it to be a suspicious detail in Clayton's story. He told me he's never ruled out a kind of spit maneuver. It was a possible way Laura could have impregnated herself while she was in the bathroom, which is not to suggest he believes Laura was actually pregnant, but just that he believes anything is possible.

Were your fluids ever down there as Laura has claimed?

No.

What happened the next days?

The next day we went and saw houses. I told her that I crossed a professional boundary. I told her that that was a one-time thing, it would not happen again. She became very agitated at that point, was crying, and asked for me to give her chance.

Wait, hang on for a second. She came over to your house, she gave you oral sex twice. The next day you told her you weren't interested in her?

That's correct. I rejected her, yes.

And then 4 days later, what happened?

4 days later, she started making claims that she could possibly be pregnant.

But hang on, did your penis ever go inside her accidentally, inadvertently, or anything like that? No.

Woodnick also took a minute to acknowledge the reason the courtroom was so packed.

"You're a public figure, you're The Bachelor, that's why everyone's watching today.

Are you embarrassed to say who you've had sex with, Clayton?" "I think I'm the last person to lie about who I've been intimate with." This is a reference to the Rose Ceremony from hell on The Bachelor, when he told two women he'd had sex with both of them while they were both standing in front of him with cameras rolling. Clayton certainly wasn't afraid to go on the record about his sex life.

"Did you have penile vaginal sex whatsoever with Laura Owens?

No, absolutely not.

Has that been your story since day one?

My story— my story's been consistent since day one.

I'm going to show you exhibit number 3. Did Laura start communicating with you more after she said she thought she was pregnant at 4 days?

Yes, non-stop. She sent me over 500 emails and text messages, 13 different phone numbers.

13 phone numbers? How many messages?

Over 500.

Many of those emails and messages were admitted as evidence. Woodnick directed Clayton's attention to one email in particular, and it's one you've heard before.

Specifically, Exhibit Number 7. I think you stated that it was a true and accurate copy. I think the caption says, "The final opportunity to consider abortion." Do you remember getting this from Laura?

Yes.

Further down in that email, Mr. Clayton, and this will get awkward, but further down in that email on July 1st, which was weeks after the alleged encounter, Laura references her tight vagina. Why is that both uncomfortable and relevant to the court today?

Because she's stating that if I would have felt how tight her vagina was, I might change my mind, which is her stating that I never penetrated her. We never had penetrative sex.

Wait, the exhibit that the court just received has Laura saying that her vagina was tight, as if you hadn't been in there before?

That is correct.

Well, had you been in there before?

I had not, no.

All right. She also sent you communications in Exhibit Number 7 talking about wanting to have sex with you during a week, a trial week. What was that about?

Yeah, she said that she would be the safest person to have sex with since she was already pregnant.

But hang on for a second. She told you she wanted to have sex with you because she was already pregnant?

That's correct.

How did you How did you feel when you read that email, Clayton?

I mean, sick to my stomach. All of this has made me sick.

Clayton sped through his testimony in 12 minutes. By contrast, Laura's had taken almost an hour. Her attorney already used his allotted time for questioning, so there wasn't a cross-examination. After Clayton's testimony, the trial was over.

I felt like I had just basically ran for 2 hours straight, full sprints. I was running on adrenaline the entire time that I was in the courtroom. Because for me, it was— we were either gonna get the outcome we want, or we're gonna be silenced. My fear was, what happens if this judge just says, "You know what? Let's just drop it all and just move on"?

Before the trial adjourned, Judge Mata told the courtroom what to expect next.

So at this time, what the court's going to do is I'll take this under advisement. What that means is I'm going to go back. I'm going to review the notes that I took today. I'm going to review the evidence that was admitted to the court. And then everyone will receive my order in writing.

Arizona law gives a judge up to 60 days to give their ruling. Now, the record was closed, and Clayton was stuck in a holding pattern. His attorneys were cautiously optimistic.

We definitely felt the trial went well. But listen. I have lost trials that I have thought I was going to win, and I have won trials that I thought I had lost. With a bench trial where the judge is acting as the judge and jury, you just never know.

A week later, Judge Mata released her ruling. It's 19 pages long and incredibly thorough. We've had a voice actor read some of the judge's decision.

The Court finds that petitioner Laura Owens acted unreasonably when she initiated litigation without basis or merit. Without an authentic ultrasound, sonogram, physical examination, and in conjunction with a belief she passed tissue in July 2023, the Court finds the underlying petition premature at best. At worst, fraudulent. And made to incite communication, a relationship, or both with the respondent, Clayton Eckert.

In other words, Clayton won. The judge granted his petition for non-paternity.

I felt relief whenever Judge Mata made that ruling because that's all I wanted. I knew my truth the entire time that I was fighting her. But I needed a legal document. Unfortunately, I'm like, it doesn't matter what I believe my truth to be. I need something to corroborate my story. And I got that. So when I got it, it was just basically like the weight had lifted and I could take a sigh of relief. I'm like, okay, I won.

But Judge Mata didn't stop at the non-paternity ruling.

The court further finds the petition was was filed for an improper purpose, such as to harass the other party, to cause an unnecessary delay, or to increase the cost of litigation to the other party. On the day of the trial, she testified that she anonymously sought care at a Planned Parenthood in Los Angeles. This undoubtedly caused Respondent to incur substantial legal fees attempting to locate records that may or may not exist in Los Angeles, but now appear to have never existed in Mission Viejo. Additionally, petitioner acknowledged she altered HCG test results, an ultrasound, and sonogram. The court finds petitioner provided false testimony as to the viability of the pregnancy in all three cases addressed in the procedural history. Laura Owens knowingly presented false claim, knowingly violated a court order compelling disclosure or discovery such that an award of attorney fees and costs is appropriate.

Laura was ordered by the courts to pay Clayton's legal fees and costs. It's a hefty bill, and at the time I'm recording this, Laura still hasn't paid it. It's a steep consequence for her actions. But there's a chance it wouldn't be the only consequence she'd have to face.

It is further ordered, the court having determined that Laura Owens has a pattern of similar, if not identical, behavior and court involvement, referring this matter to the Maricopa County Attorney's Office for review of Laura Owens's actions.

Judge Mata believed Laura's behavior warranted a criminal investigation. Woodnick was floored.

You don't see that often. But you also don't see people like Laura Owens abusing the court system the way she did.

Referrals to the county attorney are not a common outcome in family court. They are a rare consequence for those who push the judicial system past its breaking point.

And I think Judge Mata was rightfully concerned with what happened. Rightfully troubled that someone would come to court and continue with what was so obviously a lie. I think Laura did herself absolutely no favor with the changing of the Planned Parenthood testing location on the stand. When someone is willing to do that and waste the time of the court, the resources of the court— and it wasn't just Judge Mata's courtroom, remember. I think there were two 2 or 3 prior judges just in Arizona who had dealt with Laura. There was 1 or 2 commissioners on the protective order matters, plus Judge Mata's time, plus judicial staff time, plus clerk time, plus security time dealing with it. And I think Judge Mata said, you know what, you deserve to have this matter referred to the county attorney. Remember, Judge Mata didn't decide to charge Laura. All Judge Mata did was say, you know, someone ought to take a look at what happened and do a deeper dive here to see if there's criminal ramifications. What she did was say, hey, look, county attorney's office, y'all need to look at this.

The county attorney took her recommendation and started digging. And what they would find could finally bring Laura's actions to a stop.

I think it's extremely rare for people to go the distance that Laura did lying. Say what you want about Laura Owens, but she was all in. I think as I say this, she is still all in on her lie.

There's one more moment from the trial that you haven't heard yet.

Between 2014 and the present, you have alleged that you were pregnant by 4 different men, correct?

Correct.

And all 4 of those men told you, one way or another, that they believed you fabricated those pregnancies, right?

The first was not so specific about that.

And 3 of them are here today, right?

Correct.

Remember at the beginning of the episode when Woodnick arrived in court to find Laura's lawyer panicking and calling 911?

Her attorney said, I'm I'm not sure if she's even going to go into the courtroom because she's so scared.

The person she was scared of? A witness Wudnick had subpoenaed. Someone who didn't have a chance to take the stand.

My name is Mike Maraccini.

I dated Laura from March 2016 through summer of 2017.

On the next episode of Love Trapped.

I remember in total she had told me She had 2 pregnancies and 6 abortion attempts were made.

I don't know how this is possible. He says to me, I promise I will get you out of this relationship.

No way her mom is gaslighting me right now about her daughter having cancer.

Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to follow Love Trapped on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And please leave us a review. A 5-star rating helps others find this show. We're grateful for your support. If you would like to reach out to the Love Trapped team, email us at lovetrappedpod@gmail.com. That's Love Trapped pod@gmail.com. Love Trapped is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeartPodcasts. This show was executive produced by Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning, and Ben Federman, written, produced, and hosted by me, Stephanie Young. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. Producer on this episode is Sydney Gladue. Additional production support from Todd Ganz. Our production manager is Kristen Malkieri. For iHeartPodcasts, Ally Perry was our executive producer. Audio editing and mastering by Anna McClain. Additional editing support by Tanner Robbins and Matt Del Vecchio. A special thank you to our voice actor, Carrie Hartman. This podcast was developed in collaboration with Danny Passman and Lev Abramov at Crybaby Media. The Love Trapped theme is composed by Oliver Bain. Music library provided by MIB Music. A special thanks to Carrie Lieberman, Will Pearson, Jessica Kreinczek, Allie Kanter, and the entire iHeart Podcast team.

And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, it's Nora Jones, and my podcast Playing Along is back with more of my favorite musicians. Check out my newest episode with Josh Groban. You related to the Phantom at that point?

Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that.

That's so funny.

Share each day with me, each night, each morning.

Listen to Nora Jones Is Playing Along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckard was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.

You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct?

I doctored the test once.

It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing.

Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini.

My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura. Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

10-10, shots fired, City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that.

A shocking public murder.

This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.

I screamed, get down, get down, those are shots! A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery that may or may not have been political. It may have been about sex.

Listen to Rorschach: Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If you're watching the latest season of The Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down.

Portia accusing Kelly of sleeping with a married man. They holding K. Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues.

On the podcast Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise. The drama, the alliances, and the tea everybody's talking about. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an iHeartRadio podcast. Guaranteed Human.