Transcript of The Fiancé, the Fake Cancer, and the Ultimate Scam

Hello and welcome to Juicy Crimes. I've got a real juicy one for you. I discovered this podcast. Someone sent it to me. It's called the Rachel Cancer Scam. As my listeners know, throughout the 10 years of doing Juicy Scoop, I've been extremely interested in grifters, people who fake cancer schemes, people who love bomb Dirty John. I was the first person to interview the person who cracked open and wrote about Dirty John on LA Times. It's something I've always been obsessed with. You guys might remember when I did serial dater about a man who dated several different women that I was just starting to tell my guest about. There's so much to get into this story. Please welcome the host of the Rachel Cancer Scam and the person who was scammed by this Rachel, Harry.

It's so great to be here. You know what? I have this hidden gossip obsession. It's like it lives in a little place in my brain that I try to not let out, but hunting wives. There are things. My girlfriend got me into hunting wives, and I said, Oh, Heather's talking all about it. Now I'm…

Well, I'm glad to hear that you have a girlfriend. Yes. Because this other girlfriend, Rachel, is a story that is so incredible. I start listening to it, and in the first episode, You say, This is a woman I was involved with over a span of 20 years, and at the tail end of it, which is just in the last few years, you were engaged. You thought you had a baby on the way. She told you that she was a helicopter pilot, a trauma nurse, so she can fly the helicopter and save the people. She also was an attorney, She, and all these things, and a mother of how many kids? Four. Of four kids. I'm going, How would you ever believe that someone could accomplish all that and have four kids and still at a regular job at the airport in San Luis, Abispo.

As a baggage handler and gate agent, by the way, not a lawyer, not a trauma nurse, not a pilot. Just so I can I'll clarify this. Yes, please. Let's get into it.

We can talk about it all.

I don't look like a complete moron, only a partial moron. With my relationship with Rachel, she was an LVN, which is the level below an RN, and she had become a pilot, just privately had taken some lessons, that was it. But she was a lawyer and a nurse. Those were the two things with me. She was never a helicopter pilot as I knew it. She was never a trauma nurse. She ran those scams on women that she worked with at the airport. She was a high-level grifter where she could grift different people with different things.

Let's go to the beginning of how you met her. Sure. Okay. Here we have the... It's called the Messenger, the Rachel Cancer Scam. That's the second season. Here's a photo of her. You blocked out her eyes, and she really was a beauty pageant She was successful in beauty pageants. What pageant was this?

She was. This was one of the Miss Texas USA pageants, maybe the Miss Teen Texas USA pageant, I believe.

She's very attractive, but what I recall from your podcast is you met her when she was a stripper? I met her-So let's hear the story of how you met.

You're starting with the worst. I had moved to Las Vegas from New England.

Okay.

Came out to Vegas. I didn't know anybody.

Now, what year are we talking?

2001.

Okay.

I took a business trip to Houston. I was single. I was making a chunk of money, and I didn't know anybody.

What was your career? Can you say or be vague enough about what you did?

I worked in a field related to the broadcast industry. I have radio in my background. I do voice work. At the time, I was working for a communications company.

Got it.

I didn't know anybody in the West Coast. I had a bunch of money in my pocket, and I went to I'm in Houston, and I found the beauty queen.

At a strip club?

She was actually working as an escort.

Okay, so you hired her as an escort. How did you hire her as an escort? Are we talking this? I mean, internet was around. Was it through internet?

It was through the Internet. I knew when I got there that that's what I was going to do. Okay. I thought, You know what? I'm 32 years old or 33 years old. I'm single. I'm having a tough time meeting people, and This is what I'm going to do for an hour of fun. Okay, whatever. I met her, and immediately I was captivated because she really, at that time, was stunning. She presents so well, and I was just I was enamored by her.

You have your one experience with her, and then do you keep in touch? What happens?

We kept in touch. The name she gave me when she was working as an escort was Madison.

When she met you as an escort, did she say, I don't do this a lot, or did she give you a girlfriend experience, or what?

She didn't really say much. She said she was new to it. I didn't know anything about the beauty pageant stuff. When we were done, she said, Listen, I had a really nice time. I'm going to give you my phone number, and my name isn't Madison. My name is Rachel. I thought, great. I ended up seeing her after that without the exchange of any money. It was once as an escort, and that was the end of that.

How often would you see since you lived in different places? Because she lived in Houston and you're in Vegas?

She ended up moving to Los Angeles shortly after I saw her. I think I saw her once more in Houston, and then a few times in Los Angeles.

When in Los Angeles in those early years, what did she say she was doing with her life?

Going to law school. Studying to become a lawyer, taking classes.

But in reality, at that time, was she a married mother yet?

Not yet. She was working at the Silver Rain.

Oh, the strip club? The strip club. Okay, in LA.

I didn't know that, but yes, that's where she was.

But you guys, how often are you talking? Do you talk on the phone?

A few times between October of 2001 and maybe over the next year, we would talk on the phone periodically. She came to Vegas a couple of times. I went to LA, and when I was there on business, I'd take her to dinner. We'd visit and spend some time, and then she ended up getting married.

You take her to dinner. You guys would have sex, spend the night together, and then kiss her goodbye, no strings attached, nothing like that.

I'm not going to disagree with what you said. I don't kiss and tell. I'm just going to say yes.

Yes, Heather. Okay, so then... Okay, so then what happens then where she gets married and starts having kids, and you also get married and have some divorces?

This is the craziest part of the story. It literally The nonsense began in a way here. In 2002, she meets a guy that she's working with at the strip joint. They get married. His name is Mark. By the way, Mark is still her husband today. Still her husband. They realize about six months into the marriage that Mark's divorce hasn't been finalized properly. So they get the divorce finalized properly. The next year, May 27th of 2003, Rachel and Mark go back to Las Vegas, go back to the Bellagio go, go back to the marriage office, they get married again. Seven months after that, Rachel goes to Flint, Michigan, and marries a guy in Flint, Michigan. So she is a bigomist at that point.

Who is the Flint, Michigan guy?

He's a guy, if you're familiar with the story, that was connected to a guy named Bobby. Bobby was a hockey player in Houston, a guy that Rachel had a crush on. He's a part of the story. But Bobby was a friend, a side piece, for lack of a better word, of Rachel's. When Rachel went to see Bobby after she married Mark, Bobby broke up with her. She said, You know what? I've had enough. When she had gone to see Bobby, he introduced her to this guy, Brian. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Rachel said, I'm not going to take this breakup lying down. She went back to the bar to meet Bobby's friend, struck up a relationship, and two months later, she was married to him.

To get back at Bobby, the hockey player, she's like, I'm going to not only fuck your best friend, I'm going to marry him, too.

That's right. And by the way, I'm still married to Mark, who I just married seven months ago.

What does Mark think is happening during all this? He doesn't have any suspicions?

She disappears from Mark. Mark calls her phone one day. His own admission is 20 times. Brian answers the phone. Mark says, Who's this? Brian says, I'm her husband. Mark says, I'm her husband. In the history of arguments, who's ever won that conversation?

During this time, are you not in contact with her?

Correct. I think I was already out of the situation. Okay.

You're living your life and you do get married at some point, right? Correct. Twice, right?

A couple of years later, that's correct.

Okay. You have two marriages, two divorces, no kids. Correct. You're all in Vegas this whole time? Correct. Okay. Let's go back to what's really going on in her life. Who does she end up divorcing and what's going on? She's married to two people.

It took Brian three years in Flint to divorce her. The only reason it took him that long is Rachel refused service. He was trying to divorce her, trying to serve her, and Finally, the judge said, We're going to grant you a divorce with her in absentia. Okay.

Then she's back with Mark, and he doesn't care that she was fucking somebody else?

I don't know. That's a really good question. And son of a bitch, shame on me for not saying, Mark, what the fuck? You know what I mean? If my wife ran out-I just have to say, like I said, I've listened to a lot of it.

I follow you on social media. Have we seen what Mark looks like? Or he's staying in the center. Yeah. Is he a decent-looking dude?

Decent-looking guy. He's got one of those little Abe Lincoln things. Okay.

What was his career?

He worked as a sound and security installer, so He's a pretty bright guy. He's a tech guy. Okay. By all accounts, a good husband.

When you find out that your wife had another husband in a different place, but you take her back, does someone like Mark ever share with his mother that her daughter-in-law is a hoe? Do you share any of this? How would anybody ever embrace her at another family function, knowing that she pulled this, even if your son takes her back?

You haven't We haven't gotten to this part in the podcast yet, Heather.

Well, it bounced around, but yes.

In 2012, Mark starts working up and down the Coast, up to San Francisco, down to Malibu, and Mark's mother is living with them. Okay. Rachel ends up bringing another guy named Mark home, into that home where Mark's mother is. We're just friends. We're just friends. One night in the middle of the night, there are noises upstairs Mark's mother realizes she's screwing this guy. I'm in their house. What? Mark's mother says to Mark, I can't be part of this. I got to go. Rachel, the enemy of the narcissist, is the truth. Rachel had Mark ostracize Mark's mother from the family. So for 10 years, Mark didn't talk to his mother.

But why is Mark so okay with her being a serial cheater?

It's a great question. I've asked him a million questions. He's been on the podcast twice. I talk to him several times a week.

Did he cheat, too? When he's up and down the Coast, is he at least getting love elsewhere? Maybe that's why he doesn't care that much. Did they have an unconventional thing?

They had four kids, and I think he just loved her and wanted to believe what he wanted to believe. For the same thing you'd say to me, shame on you for not seeing it or dealing with it. For him, I don't know why. It was there. It wasn't just one guy. It was the marriage to Brian, this guy, whose name is Mark, also in 2012, there was another guy at that very same time that Rachel told the same story she told to me, which was, I'm pregnant and I have cancer, that she was working with the bank. There were a group of guys in 2012 that she ran scams on.

Okay, so let's just... Because this is where I, for my purposes, need to just keep a linear because I find it very confusing. So Now you're not in touch with her. You don't follow each other on anything because it's mid 2000s. Then she gets back with Mark, has kids. Do they have money? Do they live in a decent house? They're not struggling. They're not like...

Yeah, they made a decent living, and honestly, they were never estranged. Once they were married officially in 2003 in Las Vegas, they never divorced. Again, even to this day, they're still married.

Okay, so she's having these kids.

Yes.

When do you connect with her again?

Around 2012.

How does that happen?

I reach out to her. My marriage at the time is falling apart.

I found out-Marriage number two?

Marriage number one. Oh, sorry. I find out that my wife has been unfaithful, and I reach out to her.

How did you reach out to her? She still had the same number?

I found her on social.

Okay.

Facebook, I think. Hey, great to see you. Great to see you. We start talking, and I said, I'd love to reconnect again. She said to me, What are you looking for? I said, I don't know. I said, Maybe happiness. I was just unhappy. Then she told me, I've got a couple of things to tell you to update you on my life. Number one, I have four children. Number two, daughter number two is the product of an essay, a rather violent one. I have full custody of the kids because Mark has been beating me up and had beaten me up. Then fast forward six, eight months, she suffers a really bad beating. When they open her up, she tells me that they found cancer in her, and now she's got cancer. That's where that started.

Let's go back a little bit. When she says, I have four kids, all with Mark, but number two was with someone else that came, and what? Was it someone she knew or she said- Somebody in a bar. Okay. He was okay with that. She's pregnant. She's going to keep the baby or whatever. Okay. These kids, when you start talking in 2012, are ranging in what age?

At that point, they were two to maybe seven or something like that, eight.

At this point, why would you want to get involved with a woman that has four kids and an abusive ex-husband-to-be? Was she still looking that good in her Facebook posts that you were like, I don't care that you have four kids? I mean, that's a lot. Hot or not, who wants to take that? Are you seeing yourself as stepdad of the year, like when you never been a dad before?

Is this where I get to phone a friend? The fuck? What? This was supposed to be fun. This was supposed to be like, Hey.

It is, but these are the things. I'm just listening to it as I'm walking my dog going. I just don't... I want to know because I believe there are women, I've always said this, that have an ability, just like men do, to be a chameleon and turn into whatever that person is. When you hear about someone who's... When I find a woman's been married four times or whatever, I'm like, Wow, you got four guys I used to get on a knee and say, You are the greatest thing ever. And I am someone that's like, Do they give the greatest blow jobs? Do they have some secret Venus Trap vagina? What the fuck is it? Or is it they're so... I think it's more that they just make you feel like you're the greatest thing. When I talk about a Dirty John type, when I studied that case, I was like, I think a guy comes around and is like, You are the greatest, most beautiful, the funniest, the smartest. And us, as women, go, Finally, someone gets me. Obviously, we should be together because you think I'm this great. If you didn't even come for me, I wouldn't come for you.

It's just that you thought I was so amazing that, therefore, I love that.

Heather, in the history of the world, and I learned this from a friend of mine that's 82 and he's never been married, he said to me, Young man, in the history of the world, the only thing that's He was defeated as pussy. I thought about it for a minute. I thought, besides it being the most misogynistic thing you could imagine, it's true. There is something in the power that women have. To me, Rachel, there was something when I first met her that was so charming and so wonderful. The way she would talk to me, there was something disarming to me about her, and I was in a shitty spot. You said something interesting. You said they mirror you. Narcissists, one of their specialties, and this one is a narcissist. They mirror you. This is what she did to me when I got caught up in the cancer scam. I was just in a spot where I was, I suppose, in love with the idea of being loved or in love.

I mean, you see yourself as a Captain Sabohoe. What are we doing here?

Yeah, and I've shared my background a little bit with you and on the podcast, Captain Sabohoe is an interesting descriptor. I think that When I found out that she was getting beaten up and she had cancer, my instinct kicked in. It took her three days to try to talk me out of going to deal with Mark.

She tells you this, and yeah, that's what I was like, Wouldn't your first instinct to be like, why aren't you calling the police? Why aren't you getting a protective order? Do you need an attorney? I'm not going to risk my life and end up in jail. I'm not going to beat him up, but he better beat the fuck out of the house. If this is that you really cared about, why didn't you go that route?

Honestly, my opinion was, fuck the police. I'll go there and take care of it myself. I got a background, and I didn't have an issue with it. That's what I wanted to do. It just infuriated me that he would do that. To find out.

This is all just on the phone? Is she sending you photos of a Black guy or anything?

I think I got a couple of pictures when she was beaten up. By the way, she invented a friend by the name of Laura who shared part of this story. I would get texts from her and all When I was investigating the entire story, one of the things that came up was the number for Laura was actually registered to Rachel. I talked to this woman. This was before people were cloning voices. She had someone that was complicit in her storytelling.

Wait, you think it was a whole other person or you think it was just her doing a voice?

I think it was a whole other person. I think she had a friend who she said, Will you do me a favor and use my phone and call him and tell him? I think she had a partner in crime.

I think it was just heard her doing a voice. I don't think it's that hard to do a voice, maybe because I do voices. But I used to break up with guys for friends, and they would listen on three-way, and I would be the person breaking up with them because they didn't know what to say. Then I'd be like, You're I was an idiot. That guy was so nice. But I'd be like, Hi, and I would just do their voice. I'm like, I think she could just create a voice. I don't know that you really think people would... I guess she could lie to them.

Here's what I think.

Tell me what you think.

Mark knows Laura. Laura Edwards is her name. Rachel and Mark work together.

So she does exist?

She's a person. Laura Edwards and Rachel work together at Kinder Care in Santa Clarita.

She was also a daycare provider?

She had a little daycare. I saw it. She had a license to... I guess a daycare provider. Yeah, that's it. She worked at one of those places.

Okay. Okay, so When she says this horrible thing happens in 2012, then are you like... Now, have you physically gotten together yet since 2002?

No, I think I saw her Maybe a year and a half after. It took time, but I did end up seeing her after that.

After what?

After 2012. Maybe the 13th or the 14th.

So the attack, the fake attack happened in 2012. Then when you see her after that, is it your understanding that now she is free of him and she's a divorced woman.

Correct. She also had a new guy come into her life that Laura told me about, a hero, guy named Bobby. Turns out Bobby was the same guy from the early 2000s that she was obsessed with in Houston. The hockey guy. She invented him to come back into her life. She ends up marrying her in our story.

Wait, so Bobby doesn't exist?

Bobby does exist.

But he doesn't exist in 2012.

Bobby existed in 2000 and 2001 in Houston as a professional hockey player who ended up breaking up with Rachel.

Then she tells you, Professional hockey player, my ex-boyfriend has come back in my life.

When she told me about Bobby, and I know this is a lot to follow, when she told me about Bobby in 2012, he wasn't Bobby the Hockey Player. He was a guy that was in the wine business in Paso Robles. Bobby's father owned a law firm, was a lawyer. When Rachel graduated law school, she worked in Bobby's father's law firm. Bobby ended up, apparently, fathering another child outside of the marriage, and then she killed Bobby off.

In her fake story.

In her fake story.

Bobby never existed because she never went to law school. She never worked at a law firm.

Bobby was a hockey player in the early 2000s.

Do you think she told you that she had this winner of a guy that has money and is of a law firm world to make you be jealous and desire her more?

I think ultimately it was to desire her more. I think she had a storyline. This is no different than a movie script. I think she said, I'm going to develop this character named Bobby, a name from my past, and I'm going to create this new plot line for Bobby. Bobby was in her life from 2014 to 2017, and Bobby passes away of an overdose.

Now, during this time, you're still in Vegas. She's in San Luis Obespos now? Yes. You're into her, but are you physically seeing her?

I think I saw her once or twice. I got divorced at that time. Okay. Then I ended up getting remarried to someone who I was friends with who I... I don't want to say much about that.

Well, does wife number two, did she know about Rachel? Did not. Did she ever suspect that you were talking to somebody else?

I wasn't talking to Rachel during those two years. I never did that. I never communicated with Rachel during those two years when I married my wife, too.

Then wife number two, how long does that last?

A couple of years. There's infidelity there, not on my side.

It was ugly-So every girl in your life has cheated on you?

Yeah, at least a couple of them have.

Have you looked into that? Heather.

I'd like to phone a friend. Again, how many calls? How many friend calls can I make during this?

Are these women all a certain type? I mean, you went for someone that was selling her body that was a stripper. Is that your type? Like a girl that is super sexual but will make you, convince you that she's Mary Magdalene, and she's going to change her ways because you are that moral high ground and great guy, so you're going to make a hoe a housewife.

Listen, I'm not some moral high ground. I hired a hooker.

Right, but I'm saying in your mind, is that the trick that these women use? Sure. Okay.

And that, by the way, that's the expression the hookers have. A guy is a trick. Why is he a trick? I'm going to trick him into thinking that-I'm into I'm into him. I'm into him.

Yeah. Then the other marriage dissolves and then you weren't talking to her during the second marriage.

I might have gotten a couple messages, but Nothing.

Nothing in person.

No. I'll tell you what, now that I think about it, Rachel sent me some pictures during my marriage that I just put away and I don't think I even responded to. Like pictures.

Like sexy pictures. Yeah, sexy pictures.

I just quickly It's like, Hey, miss you, and it's just like... Yeah, naked.

Weren't you scared that the wife might lean over and see that?

I deleted them off my phone. I'm like, No, I don't want any part of that. I can't be part of that. I can't have that temptation around me, not because I can't resist it, but I just can't. It's not okay. If I saw that my wife was getting naked pictures from a guy, I'd be fit to be tied.

Okay, so now this is a photo you've covered her eyes to, but you can see she She is attractive. She has pretty blonde hair. She has a good dye job. Extensions her real hair. I don't know. She has a sense of style. She tells you, she sends us to you and says, It's picture day at the law firm. Now, what year is this?

2017.

You think during the time that you're in and out of these two marriages, she has successfully gotten divorced, had another boyfriend who died, and is no longer pursuing doing is no longer really a nurse anymore because now she's a lawyer.

The nurse was a backup. She said, I'm keeping the nursing license just in case I need it. I'm keeping it active.

You must think that this beauty pageant turned stripper, turned hooker, turned nurse, daycare provider, now lawyer. When does the end mother of four? When does she sleep? When she's going... I mean, even Kim Kardashian is still not a lawyer, and she had all the help in the world to pass the bar without going law school, and she has four kids. How did you think that she was doing this? Was she just the most genius stripper that ever lived?

Listen, I thought in 2001 when I met her and she said she was going to go to law school and starting to take classes, and the fact that she didn't end up passing the bar until 2015 or '16, I thought that seems to be a reasonable enough time. If she's taking her classes online, California is the only state in the country that allows you to take the bar online online and then pass it and get your JD and then allows you to do an apprentice program. Right.

To become a lawyer. You don't have to go to actual law school.

There's only one person in the history of that program that's gone through that program and is now a practicing lawyer, by the way. I found that out after the fact. To me, the accomplishments weren't anything out of the ordinary. She got an LVN license because she went to college. She told me she went to college. She had a degree in biomathematics.

She had a degree in biomathematics after she was doing beauty pageant stuff with Eva Longoria, by the way, was in the also in the pageant. With that degree, she's like, I would also like to be a high class hooker because that looks like Fun and Pretty Woman was my favorite movie.

I think she left high school and thought, The way I'm going to make money is I'm going to capitalize on the fact that I'm beautiful, that I get attention.

Do you think she ever went to college?

She never. By the way, she barely graduated high school.

Right.

So no, she didn't go to college.

She didn't go to college. But you believe she did have a college degree, and she was just doing this to supplement her lifestyle?

I'm a man of reasonable intellect. I may be an asshole and an idiot or whatever you think I am.

I don't think you're a bad person. I'm fascinated by the story, obviously. I do ask the questions people don't ask. I appreciate your honesty.

I firmly believe that she's a smart woman But she's sneaky smart and she's evil smart. I fell for that. Listen, I wanted to believe her, and I wanted to believe in her.

What I don't get is, and we haven't even gotten to the cancer part. The scam is just being a pathological liar, getting people to be in her life, believe her, whether they're friends or romantic or whatever, loving the attention of various men and playing them against each other. But at this point, she's not making money off of this. She's not having you send her 5,000 a month or anything like that. It's really just a scam of mind fuckery.

When the scam was exposed, Heather, she sent Mark a message, and she was to explain her lies. She said to Mark, I lied to Harry about cancer for attention.

Okay, so now let's go back to how the lie happens. Now you think she is practicing lawyer. She is divorced. She has four kids. She lives in San Luis, Abisbo, and she also works at the airport?

She was not working yet physically at the airport. To me, with me, She never worked at the airport. Until her cancer scan was exposed, I never knew she worked at the airport.

When is the next time that you physically get together romantically?

August 27, 2021, we meet in Santa Barbara. That's where the whole thing begins.

Okay, so you have a lovely weekend. And chemistry, just like it always was.

Stunning.

Still very, very attractive. How old is she at that point?

She's 40, maybe.

Okay. You think she is a divorced mom of 40 practicing attorney living in San Luis, Abispo? Correct. Who drove a few hours down to meet you in Santa Barbara. Correct. You have a lovely evening or weekend. Yeah. At that point, you leave Santa Barbara and you're like, This is the woman of my dreams. We're going to live together. I'm going to be a stepfather. I'm going to go see when she tries a case in court. What in your mind are you thinking your future looks like?

That night over dinner, I'm looking at her and I'm thinking, I've known you half of your life. I met you when you were 21, and you are an accomplished woman, and I'm proud of you. And like, Heather, I could do without the laughter. This is where I was.

I know. I get why. The thing is, it's so embarrassing when someone love bombs you, lies as a grifter, whether it's a friend, whether it's romantic, because you are a good person and you don't lie yourself. So it doesn't occur when people are like, I was so dumb, I can't. So I know I'm laughing whenever I'm not, because it's like, I've interviewed enough people and I've counseled enough people when they are so hard on themselves. And I'm like, But why wouldn't you believe that you were lovable and that this person was this great person and that you deserve this great person? Why would you think that someone who's entering your life is lying about their career? You wouldn't think it. So I'm saying, yeah. But when you add it all up, yeah, it doesn't make sense. But at the same time, I see where you're coming from.

Especially at that point on August 27th, 2021, I'm thinking, boy, look at what you've become. You're still very beautiful and you're sweet. And the way she would talk to me, there was something to me about that always. There was something that provided comfort to me in her voice.

Why don't you tell us so girls can hook some guys? A lot of girls are trying to get a guy. What is the secret?

Rachel told me something in October when I was getting ready to go to Billy Bush's birthday party, which I talk about in the podcast. She had written me, and this is how she hooked me, I think. She wrote to me and said, We can no longer keep doing what we're doing. We can't be friends with benefits. You can't fly to Santa Barbara. I can't come to Vegas. I need to see what I'm capable of. I looked at that like it was an ad. It was like my hold my beer moment. I said, Wait a minute, if that's what you're looking for.

Like a real relationship.

Like a relationship, why don't we look at doing that? Why haven't we ever connected before? There have been periods of time where we were both single between 2012 and now.

Between Mark, Bobby, and Michigan, Flint, or what a Flint, Michigan. Okay, go on.

God, you are tough. This is like Ted Koppel with tits. Like, what the fuck? I thought this was going to be fun. Go on the gossip show. It'll be great. It'll be fucking great. Now, thank God, I'm not wearing my Apple Watch. It would be calling the police like, Have you fallen? Is there an emergency? Jesus Christ.

Okay, go on.

I'm thinking, where was I?

You said, Why don't we have a real relationship? Why don't we have a real relationship?

She's accomplished. She's a lawyer. Nothing is far-fetched. She's got an LVN license that she doesn't use.

She's Reese Witherspoon and legally blonde. Look at her. That's right.

She's just doing her I thought, boy, she's beautiful and she's smart, and she loves me. She writes to me before we go to Billy Bush's house, and she said, I can't do this. I'm looking to see what I'm capable of these days. I'm ready to be loved and I'm ready to love. I said, If that's what you're looking for, if you're serious, I'm interested in exploring that with you. Not like, let's get married today, but if that's what you're looking for, maybe this is our time.

Now, at this time, does she even talk about her kids, their activities? Oh, my God, this one is doing this in the house. I mean, a mother of four, it sounds from your podcast that she really didn't, and you didn't overly ask.

I did, and I've deliberately kept the children out of it. One of her daughters is a very accomplished, very good softball player. Her oldest daughter, who she is estranged from Madison, is in school and I think is going to end up being a doctor. Her 14-year-old, and this is verified, just graduated college over the spring last year. Real story, true story. It's been in the paper. There was a news story.

Her 14-year-old graduated from college.

Yeah, while in high school, by the way. While in high school. Brilliant. It's on the news.

I'll send you- That's crazy. Well, I mean, sometimes I'm just like, yeah, sometimes that hype... I mean, I do believe intelligence is somewhat genetic, not always, but somewhat, can be. I do think it not skips the generation or the parents didn't really use their intelligence in the right way, and then they push their kids so much. But that's insane that she has a genius child while she... When was she even home with them?

By the way, in the middle of this podcast, Two months ago or three months ago, she calls the local news station in San Luis, Abispo, and says, My daughter is this genius child that graduated from college at 14 years old, and she's on the fucking news. Rachel It's ridiculous. Rachel, and I saw it, and I didn't put it on my podcast. I didn't talk about it in social media. I thought, the nerve of her to know that I'm talking about her every single day, and you're going to put yourself on the news? Get the fuck out of here.

Okay, so we got to get to where this all... Okay, so she doesn't talk that much about the kids, but you're just like, Let's try to have a real relationship. Sure. After that, then how often are you physically seeing each other.

We saw each other a bunch. There's a bunch of time between August 27th and really through April of 2022. August the 21st-For five, six months, you're seeing each other always in these rendezvous cities, or did you ever go to her house and see her kids and spend the night? I wrote to her and called her on November first of 2021. I said, I need to talk to I flew to Santa Barbara, and I sat with her, and I said, Listen, I want to make a go of this. I want us to be a couple. She looked at me like I had six heads. I had to say it three times. Finally, the next day, we agreed to it. We'd become a couple on November fourth, 2021. From that point, we began communicating every single day. I ended up going back and forth to Santa Barbara once or twice, and then I go to a Taskadero, which is where she was living. A month and change after that.

So a Taskadero Where is that?

That's in San Luis. In between Paso Robles and San Luis, in this row.

Do you ever go to her house or you just stay at a hotel?

I stay at a hotel. I meet the girls once. Where? Only once, In-N-Out burger. Her daughter, Madison, worked at In-N-Out in a Tascadero.

Did she say, This is my boyfriend, Harry?

Oh, no. First of all, what she told me was, We have to pretend like we're not together. I promised them after Bobby that I would never bring another man into their life. Of course, Bobby wasn't a marriage.

But then were you thinking, These kids are this young. If we're going to make a go at it, I'm going to wait till everyone's over 18?

She said, Give it time. I'll work on a plan to do it. Let's not rush them into it.

I said, Fair enough. Now, are you now telling Billy Bush, your friends. This is my beautiful girlfriend, Rachel. She's a busy mother for an attorney at law.

I'm spilling the tea.

You're telling everyone about her. Correct. Now, is she ever like, Oh, I'd like to meet Billy Bush and go to a Hollywood party?

On October ninth, 2021, she accepted my invitation to go to Billy's party. She said, I can't come to the party, which was the next night on the Warner Brothers lot, but there was a dinner the Saturday night before. I go to Billy's, and Rachel and I, and Ali, Billy's girlfriend, and a couple of other people are at his house, and then we all go to dinner. Rachel's with all of us.

The other women think she's great and normal, and they all think she's an attorney.

I saw Billy and Ali last night for dinner, and Ali said, We were with you the night before Billy's party. I said, Yes, you were.

Okay, so everyone thinks you've got a great gal.

She presents beautifully.

Okay, and what is the story about where then she says there was some other event that she goes, I have to fly out so that I could be in the Boston Marathon.

It was that night. October seventh, she says to me, I'm ready to see what I'm capable I'm ready to love or be loved. October ninth is the Billy Bush dinner that we have. October 10th is Billy's party. She said, I can't be at the party because I'm flying to Boston to be in the marathon on October 11th. Okay.

That was that.

Fast forward to December. I'm spending a lot of time with her in a Tascadero. I stay at the Home 2 Sweets, which is right off of the 101. The week of December I guess, 14th, we're talking about marriage. I said, I really think I would like for us to be together. I love you. I've always loved you, I think. On that Friday, the 17th, she said to me, I will marry you on three conditions. One, you'll always fight for us. Two, you'll never turn your back on us. And three, you'll never turn to another. I thought, that's a romantic thing. I'm like, Yeah, I'm in. That's easy. That's December 17th. I go back to Vegas on the The morning of the 19th, she sends me a text and says, What are the dates that we were together over the last few months? I thought, Well, that's interesting. Come to find out she's missed her period and she thinks she's pregnant. She said, I think I missed my period and I think it's possible I'm pregnant, but also the last time my cancer came back, I also missed my period and I never missed my period.

I don't know anything about your evil lady parts, and I don't know whether that's a true statement or not, Anyway, she talks to her oncologist, goes and gets a blood test. That night, two days after I said, Let's get married, she calls me hysterical. I mean, this is the best, the best, That cry, that ugly cry. She's on FaceTime. I'm looking at her and she is boohooing and trying to catch her breath. I'm so sorry, Harry, that I brought you into this. I have cancer. My cancer's back. And by the way, the doctor thinks I'm pregnant. I'm like, Fuck. I said, Listen, don't worry about a thing. I am going to come there and we're going to get this figured out together. It's too late for me to fly from Vegas right now to San Luis, Obispo. I'm going to find someone to watch my dog. I'm going to jump in my I'll take a truck and pack a bag, and I will see you tomorrow. I will drive all night, and I'll go to the oncologist with you. She said, Don't do that. I'm very private about that. Will you come Tuesday? Sure. I go there Tuesday, and that essentially started the entire trip to stay up there.

But that next day, when she went to the oncologist, she said, I'm going to go to the OB next. When she left the OB, she sent me a text that said, do you want to see OB-GYN? Ob-gyn. She sent me a text that said, Do you want to see a picture of your baby from today? I'm 55 years old. I've never had a kid. I'm like, Yeah, I want to see my baby. She sent me a picture of the baby in her belly with her name on it, with its expected date of birth. I thought, I'm 55 years old at the time. I'm thinking, I'm going to be a dad. I begin to romanticize this thing. My hook is in her mouth, I'm flopping around on the fucking boat. I'm in. I've waited for her. I have waited for her. And now she's pregnant and she has cancer. Oh, my God. My head's spinning. What am What am I supposed to do? I'm a good man. You know what I mean? All the laughing and bullshit and silliness aside, I'm a good person. I'm not going to walk away from someone that's pregnant with my baby that has cancer.

Right. But also you're madly in love.

I think I'm in love.

Oh, okay. Yeah, but you're right. Okay, so jump to, we now know she was never pregnant. How did she... Did she just Photoshop? Obviously, she's great at Canva or whatever.

She's a Photoshop expert. In 1997, when she graduated high school, just barely graduated high school, she wanted to move to Houston to become an escort and a dancer and an adult model, male magazine.

That's what one does after high school. Correct.

Life goals. She says to her boyfriend, Brad, who I've spoken with, doesn't want to come on the podcast. But she said to Brad, Listen.

The high school boyfriend.

I need to move to Houston. They're talking about Houston. He doesn't really want to go. About a week later, she goes to her sister, Sherry, and opens up her baby book, Sherry's pregnant at the time with twins, and she takes the ultrasound of twins out of Sherry's baby book, rips the top. This is pre-Photoshop, 1998, rips the top of it off and hands it to Brad and says, Here you go, Brad. You're going to be a daddy of twins. Can we move to Houston? That's when the pregnancy shit started.

And what did he say?

Yeah, I'll move to Houston.

And then when they get to Houston, she just says, I had a miscarriage? Correct. So when does your miscarriage happen?

February 10th, 2022, while she's in Mexico.

Why is she in Mexico?

Family vacation.

With the girls, with her daughters.

With the girls after she started chemo with a chemo pill. And by the way, I thought she was stuck there with COVID. By the way, she was only in Mexico for a week. She was not in Mexico on February 10th. She had already been home. She went to Mexico on February 18th, and she was home by the 23rd or 24th.

Now, at this point, now, looking back, what do you think? Was this just a fun game, or was she saying all these awful stuff so that you would dump her and then she'd move on to another scam and be done with you?

She had no idea that I would be all in on it. I think in the end, she panicked, and she had to continue to lie and tell more lies. There's no way at the beginning if you had said to Rachel, Hey, listen, you're going to run a scam on this guy, just pregnancy and cancer, and then just get him in, get them out. On to the next scam. She had no idea that I would say, I'm not going anywhere. She didn't count on that.

So The baby doesn't work out, but now the cancer has gotten really, really bad.

I don't want to take any more treatment. That's in February. We get to April or May. She claims to go to the oncologist and says now she's stage four. I'm saying, Rachel, you need to take treatment. Please, I'm begging you, take treatment.

All this time, is she talking about her daughters at all? I can't believe I won't be a mother to They're devastated. She just doesn't even talk about them at all.

My family will take care of them. There are people in my life, church people, that will rally around them. Just bullshit.

Just not what an- She's still going to court?

No.

At this point, does she have the job at the airport yet? Has she told you she has the airport job yet?

That didn't come through.

Where does the pilot thing come in?

While she was in the hospital, which she went in on June fifth, 2022, a year… Actually, I'm sorry. June of '22, she goes into the hospital via ambulance. By September, she's working at the airport. As a baggage handler, while I think she's in protective isolation at French Hospital in Slo. June, July, August, September, four months.

Me and that her cancer was so bad, which I've never heard this happening to anybody, that she can't have one visitor?

Protective isolation because her immune system is so compromised. And I said, Listen.

She's like, Girl in a Plastic Bubble?

Yeah. And I said, Listen.

Like John Travolta?

Correct. Boy in a Plastic Bubble. Okay. I remember that. I'm old enough to remember that. I watched that on ABC on a Friday night. That's how old I am. Me too. God. So I said to her, Listen, this doctor is telling you you can't have any visits. I call bullshit. Every one of those doctors goes home at night and takes have a suit off. They go live their fucking lives. They go out to bars, they go to dinner, they live their lives. I will do the same thing. They can give me shots, they can quarantine me.

Have you ever looked up, do people have full isolation when they have stage 4 cancer?

They can't. Protective isolation is a thing. You have to be really sick for it.

But it was-And is she sending you cancer sick photos?

Oh, yeah. You got some, right?

I don't know if I put them in here. No, I didn't. But it's all on your-Instagram? Yeah, the Instagram, which is the_Rachel_cancer_scam. She looks awful and everything. She's like a little beanie on and the whole thing because obviously she's no hair. Does Billy Bush, do other friends know that your fiancé is stage 4 dying and is 84 pounds?

At that point, I was talking to Billy Bush at least once a week while I thought she was in the hospital, especially Even before that, even before she went in the hospital and I was living in a Tascadero, I would talk to Billy once a week, and he would say, How are you holding up? How is she? You've got to convince her to get treatment. I mean, all of these people in my life were rallying behind me. That's part of the shame and humiliation of all this is that I brought people into this scam. All I thought I was doing was Loving someone who loved me that was sick.

When she says she's stage four and all that stuff, I mean, at this point, are you still thinking there is hope that she will recover and you will have a wedding and eventually all be the braided Bunch together?

My father was 50 years old when he found his own acute myelogenous leukemia. He was a scientist, and he beat it. It was a death sentence at the time in 1990 when it happened to him. When you talk to my father after that, he would tell you, The reason I'm alive today is not the chemo. It's because of what's here and what's here. And my father spent-In your head and your heart. My father spent the next 30 years of his life counseling people all over the world on how to beat cancer. With their mind and their body. Take the medication, take the chemo. But my father says, and I believe this, my desire to beat this cancer and stay alive was far stronger than that cancer was. Maybe that's not the case all the time, but my father did a lot of good in this world.

Let's jump to when you realized it was all bullshit.

I saw red flags in a bunch of different places that I refused to really jump on her about. Beginning with the Billy Bush thing when I thought she was in Mexico with COVID and stuck. I called Billy saying, Hey, can you call one of your friends at Wheel's I'll go up or get a private plane and get her out of there and get her home? She's sick. She miscarried our baby, and I'm just worried about her, and I need to be with her, and I can't get to Mexico. He called the people that own Moon Palace, and he called me back. I have the message on my phone. I played it on the podcast, and he said, Something's weird. My buddies say that your girl's gone.

That she checked out.

I said, No way. I texted her.

You think she's laying in a room, vomiting, sick. Miscarriage. Depressive.

Covid.

Yeah. Right.

I wrote to her and I said, Hey, Billy's trying to get you out. I think he can get you out. I think they can send a plane for you. She said, Well, I appear checked out because I'm in a different wing. People that have COVID are put into a different wing, and I'm not a registered guest. There was this line of bullshit. I should have stopped at that point. Listen, I have a private investigator license. I don't use it. I know that sounds ridiculous, and you're going to want to throw your coffee at me. I don't use it. I don't have a need for it. I got it for a specific reason for someone who needed for me to do bodyguard work for something, and that came with it, and I have it, and I have those skills. I just didn't use it. Along the way, I found things that didn't seem right, and she would gaslight me. I would say, why is... If you and Mark have not been together since 2012, why are the two of you on the house in a Tascadero together? Well, if that happened, that's fraud, and I'll have my lawyer deal with it.

Why are you bringing him into our lives? Every time you mention his name, you're bringing him into our lives.

That's what she'd say. Every time you mention him. Yeah. Did she say Mark had visitation rights? She just said he's completely out. Completely out. Did she say she got any child support from him?

Didn't need it because she was a successful lawyer.

What was she living off of during this time? Mark.

Okay. In his business, she had no money. He had nothing. She still has no money.

Why did she even get a job at the airport?

Flight benefits. When you work for an airline, you can pay 40, 50 bucks a leg and fly wherever you want to fly. While she was in the hospital with me, Heather, she took 19 trips around the country and the world.

What would she do on those trips?

Go take her girls, go with Mark, whatever. Go wherever. I'm sitting at home thinking I'm a virtual caregiver to a woman with stage 4 cancer, and she's fucking flying around the world. Are you kidding me?

Would she also go by herself and have other boyfriends and stuff?

I don't know that.

But then she does have a She's very different at the job at the airport, right? Yeah. She's a whole another side piece.

That's correct. A whole 'nother' side piece. And that guy, by the way, when I found out when she was exposed, I called that guy, and I said, Hey, this This is who I am. I'm going to send you some stuff. I said, I'm worried about Rachel. I sent him the fake cancer pictures, the ultrasound. He never responded to me. That guy doesn't respond to me. That guy said, I'm not supposed to troll him.

Because he's still with her.

They're still together. They're still together.

They're still working the shifts at the airport.

He just got fired. Just a month ago.

What did he get fired for?

You don't know? I can't talk about it.

All right. But she still works there?

I believe she's very close to getting fired.

Now, so where do the criminal charges come in? Because to me, everything we discussed, there's nothing that she did criminally wrong.

I love the way your mind works because there is a lot of this stuff. I'll take you from 2006 to the first technically criminal activity to right now. 2006, she runs for the Water Board up in Santa Clarita. She loses that election. She's running for-She's dressed Just like that with a hard hat on and some plans. That's in her brochure. She runs for what? She's got these aspirations to run for office. Okay. No shit. She runs for office in 2006. She loses the election, but she doesn't lose her way to the bank. She takes the money that they gave her in campaign funds, and she embezzles it, puts it into her own account. The Fair Political Practices Commission in California goes after her for the money. There's still money owed 20 years later.

How much money was it?

I don't know that exactly, but they're still taking Mark's tax return because she forged Mark's name on her application as the treasurer of her campaign. That's number one.

Okay.

2012, when she's getting beaten up the first time she has cancer, after she scammed one of these other guys, she goes to the state of California to an organization called Capslow. Capslow supports people in situations like this, abuse spouses, people that need shelter. She gets $27,000 out of Capslow.

As a domestic violence victim.

Presents herself as a single parent, presents herself as living at an address she doesn't live at, misspells her name, R-A-C-H-E-L-L-E.

Why does she do that? To not be tracked or something? Correct.

It's her disguise.

Okay.

About 14 months later, she gets a letter Capslow. Say, You committed fraud. You're still married. You're not a single parent. You misspelled your name. Now she owes them at that point, $28, $29,000. Fast forward to today, as we sit here at the end of summer in 2025, she now owes them almost $90,000.

Because of interest and all that.

Interest, penalties, fees, all that. Then, by the way, they sue her, but they don't hand it over to the DA's office. So there are no criminal charges filed, which to me is bad.

It's fraud. Because we could have stopped this.

We could have stopped this. This could have, by the way, been stopped when she embezzled campaign funds in '06. Right. Didn't get stopped. Didn't get stopped in 2012. Mark, the husband, after all this comes out, sends me two years worth of text messages. He said, Just for your own records, I know you're working on the podcast. If you want to see what was going on in our lives, I held that for a year. It was too painful for me to look at. When he sent it to me, I held it. You held it.

I didn't look at it. Now you looked at it, and what is it?

I looked at it in March. One of the things I found was that Rachel had an EBT card, a benefit card.

For food and everything.

While she was living with Mark and he was making well into the six figures, and she was flying around the world on her trips from the airline. I call, Slo County. I end up literally hitting the jackpot, I get a chief investigator in the fraud unit. I said, My name is Harry. Harry, the Rachel Cancer Scam. This is who I am. I tell him the story, and he said, The DA doesn't tend to prosecute these cases unless someone shows a history of egregious behavior of fraud. I said, Well, I think we hit the lotto. He said, What do you have? Meanwhile, from my FAA investigations, from the TSA investigations, from my letter to Robert Isom at American Airlines about the fake pilot's license, I have all of Rachel's information.

Because she also produced a fake pilot license? She did. Because when she was working at the airport as just like a ticket taker, she befriended people, and you had one of the... I heard one of the interview where she told the friend that worked there, Oh, tonight, I am doing my shift as a trauma helicopter pilot, and I flew down and landed on a cliff because a pregnant woman who was in the middle of contractions, I then got out of the helicopter and delivered the baby and then brought the baby back on the helicopter to go take it to the hospital. But I'm here now, that's what I did last night, but I'm here now to collect tickets.

None None of that shit, by the way, it's all true, none of that shit happened to me. I didn't fall for any of that. I fell for other things. But yes, you are correct. She didn't deliver the baby, Heather. She cut that baby out of that woman as the story goes.

I did the woman then just have to die on the cliff?

I don't know. But here's the thing. At the airport, that's when they started to catch on to her.

Some of the coworkers.

The coworkers were like, There's no way. And by the way, in Slow County, there are only a handful of helicopter pilots. When you talk about being a helicopter pilot, you're talking about a very specific line of work. It's not like airline pilots. We could walk through this building and we could find five people that are certified to fly a plane. You don't find a lot of helicopter pilots. In Slow County, there's only a couple of guys, I don't know if there's any women that are qualified and especially that would work for Mercy Air doing this. That's when they started to call bullshit.

Right. Then I just don't understand why you'd make up lies of having multiple jobs and careers to people.

Here's the airport thing, and this is so insidious. She tells the folks at the airport that she's working as a trauma nurse and a pilot for Mercy. Then she says, By the way, my second daughter attempted self-harming, the worst kind, and she's hospitalized for it. Will you guys cover my shifts so I can keep the Mercy air job because that pays our bills because I'm a single mom. Will you guys cover my shift here at the airport? Well, the reason she did that was because she wanted to keep her flight benefits. Rachel's flight benefits are the single most important thing. At this point in my life, in this podcast, if I can get her out of that airport job so she loses her benefits, she loses her currency, she loses her identity. Right now, she flies around wherever the fuck she wants to go.

I just can't imagine that someone's thinking that someone would have two kinds of careers like this. I guess you would just say the trauma nurse thing was only on occasion when there's a trauma?

There's not that many. There aren't that many things that happen, especially in Slo County. If that was true, if the baby story was true and there was a helicopter rescue in Big Sur or wherever it was, and the helicopter landed and a trauma nurse made a C-section and cut a baby out and saved a woman's goddamn life. You don't think that would be on the news?

Exactly. But wait, now I missed the part. When did you find out it was all bullshit and she was never sick? And how did you confront her? When did you, without any doubt, said, Oh, my God, for whatever it was, a year and a half or 18 months, I thought the love of my life was in isolation, dying of cancer, mother of four, and I wasn't going to leave her. I wasn't going to break up with her, even though I couldn't see her. Then you find out the whole thing was a lie.

How? 562 and a half days after she went into the hospital, I get a message one day from the woman at my office from the front desk that says, Hey, Harry, there's a Mark so-and-so on the phone. I thought, Why is he calling me? Like her husband.

Did you think maybe it was that she died?

There were two choices. One, She's passed. Or two, he's calling me because he found out that I'm in touch with her and he's calling to start trouble.

Okay.

I said, Send it to voicemail. I don't want to talk to him. I let my blood pressure go down. I go out to my car 15 minutes later and I said, Hey, Mark, this is Harry. He said, I understand you know my wife. I said, Stop right there. I said, You're lucky I didn't fucking kill you a dozen years ago. I know what you did to her. I know you beat her up. I know that you're an abuser. I know that you did all these things. What do you want? He's like, What are you talking about? I hear his voice for the first time. I didn't hear it when he answered the phone. He's this calm, soft-spoken guy that I have just jumped all over with my asshole-imposing sounding voice. He said, Tell me, what's the nature of your relationship with Rachel? I said, She's my fiancée. I'm still pissed. She's my fiancée. She's not your wife. She's my fiancée. She's wearing my ring. He said, Fiancée? He said, When's the last time you saw her? I said, May fifth of 2022, when she left the Santa Barbara Hotel. At the same time I did, she went to start cancer treatment, and I went back to Vegas.

He said, I'm not looking for any trouble. Is this your cell phone you're calling me from? I said, Yeah. He said, Hold on a second. He sends me a video, and I hit play on the video. He said, This was taken last night. It's Rachel walking into the marital home with flowers in her hand, not from Mark, but from the new boyfriend. I'm like, Oh, my God. I've been thinking that for the last 563 Every day she's in the hospital and she's going to die. Maybe Mark was calling me to tell me she's passed on. But there she is walking with another dude's flowers into her home.

How did he know about you on that day to call you?

Because five days before that, he realizes Rachel's disappearing a lot at night. He looks for her on Find My Phone and sees that she's at a home in Paso Robles. He goes to the address and he sees her car in the driveway. He walks up to the door, he rings the doorbell. A guy comes to the door in his pajama bottoms and no top, no socks and shoes. He says, Can I help you? Mark says, I'm looking for my wife. Who's your wife? Rachel. She's busy. Whatever. Mark ends up sitting in the driveway. There's some argument at home. Mark waits for Rachel to come out. 20 minutes goes by. He just goes home, and then Rachel comes home. Mark goes to pick up his daughter five days later. In the meantime, there had been a fight at the airport. Mark went to go see Rachel three days after finding her at Russ's house. He has a fight with Russ. Two days later, the 20th, he goes to pick Madison up from the airport, the child from school. Madison said, What happened to you? He said, I had a fight with mom's boyfriend. Madison said, Harry?

Mark said, Harry? Who the fuck is Harry? Madison pulls out her phone, says, This is Harry. She's got my Instagram account, pictures from a a year ago of Rachel and I all over my Instagram account. He said, This is Russ. Who the fuck is Harry? Then at that point, that's when he called me. I'm like, Oh, my God. This is like the sands through an hourglass. These are the days of our lives. That's how I found out. That's how I found out. She said, Oh, mom's boyfriend, Harry, you mean? Because Madison had found a note that I wrote to her and saw pictures on my Instagram and saw the social media like, Here I am with my girl, Rachel, in Santa Barbara. That's how I found out.

Then, do you confront her then?

Mark and I have this conversation. He starts to tell me some things, and he said, Do you know Russ so and so? I said, I got no idea who that is. I said, Who is that? He said, That's Rachel's boyfriend. She's been spending a ton of time there for the last month. No idea. I said, You know what? Give me a couple of minutes. I'll be right back to you. Another moment of deep breathing, and then I sent her a text message. At that point, I understood that she was very sick, weighing only 66 pounds. She wasn't responding to my texts. She had disappeared in the hospital. I didn't realize she disappeared with another dude. So I sent her a text message. I said, Hey, do you know Russ so-and-so? I've been waiting sometimes days to get a response from her. I got a message instantly. No. I said, Are you sure you don't know Russ so-and-so? And she said, I have no idea who that is. I said, Well, it's interesting because I just got a call from Mark. And she wrote back and she said, What did he want? He's been coming around, starting trouble.

I said, Coming around where, Rachel?

She said-The isolation hospital bed?

The house, starting trouble with the girls because she told me, Mark's been spending time at the house to help watch over the girls.

That's good. Yeah.

And so she's got that shit going. And I said, enough. I said, You're not in the hospital. You don't have cancer. You're not paralyzed. You didn't have a brain surgery that wiped 10 years of your memory out. Where are you?

But you still think she's a lawyer? Fuck.

I don't know what I think. God damn it. Did we get recess from this?

We are going to wrap it up because there is so much more, and I do want people to check it out because now it looks Because you're in the second season of it called The Messenger.

Correct. The Messenger, the Rachel Cancer Scam.

And she is pissed.

Yeah, she's really pissed.

Where is she now and what is happening? She pissed that you're doing the podcast. She pissed that she's in these legal issues of fraudulent stuff or what?

She's setting her husband up, Mark, setting him up, saying that he was an abusive spouse. Because Mark said to her as they were splitting up when all this was exposed, he said, I'm going to tell the girls about everything you've done. I think the way that we heal as a family is with truth. I think that secrets in a family can be awful. At that point, she realized, because she's a narcissist, that she can't have a narcissist in her life. After begging Mark to get back together, as soon as she said that to him and he said, No, I'm not interested in doing that because of what you've done to me for 22 years. She then realized, I have to get him out of my life. How do I do that? I'm going to put him in prison. Mark robbed a business in 1992 and as an ex-felon. He can't have a handgun. He's got to strike against him. She's built a case. This is going on now.

She built a case against him?

For abuse.

Because he has that felony from '92? Yeah. Where is he now?

Wearing an ankle monitor, and he said to move out of the state. This story, this is a true crime story within my true crime story. This is one of the most complex stories.

What is she currently What are you doing now? One of your things said that she was a realtor.

She got a real estate license. That is correct. That is true and accurate.

I'm a little surprised about that because as someone who is, at one time, I was a California realtor, they do check your records and stuff. Anything that does with fraudulent stuff, I'm shocked that it didn't show up when she was applying for her license.

She was never charged with embezelment by the fair political. Oh, you're right. She was never charged in the Capsule issue. Okay. She got that.

Got it. She is a realtor.

That license expired.

Okay. She's not selling real estate, but she's still working at the airport. Correct. She still has three kids at home. There's no doubt she has a boyfriend or three.

Correct.

She will always have a boyfriend or three. Correct. If she goes to prison, she will have a boyfriend or three.

Or a girlfriend or three.

Probably.

Or prison guard or three. Yeah.

Okay. When I was listening to your podcast about this Rachel cancer scam and that she had this ex-husband, whether it was abusive, that sometimes she was with him, then he'd come back, and he had these moments where he beat her up. Do you think she was ever setting you up or playing with the idea that she was going to have her boyfriend/lover, you, do the classic triangle crime of maybe killing the abusive husband that isn't even abusive?

It's a fantastic question, and I have ruminated on this without really uttering the words on the podcast. I'll answer you and I'll say yes. This is what I think. I think after she was caught and she knew that I was going to stick around for at least a little bit to hear what she had to say because I communicated with her for a while, she knew that I wanted to get him out of the picture, not like I'll go kill him, but I want him out of the picture so that we can figure this out and so that I have... We have the opportunity to communicate. I think what she did was told me during those times that she was being abused physically and sexually, that she couldn't take her phone. He would control her phone, didn't let her drive. She He was riling me up. I think the end game was so that I would go there and I would deal with him. And by the way, that kills two birds with one stone. Mark is in the grave, and I'm in prison. So, yeah, I think that was the end game.

Wow. Yeah, I do, too. No.

No one else has asked me that. And I think it's a really astute and great question because what is the end game? The end game is I get rid of both of these guys. I get to go be with Russ or find some other guy with money, and these guys are both out of my life.

Yeah.

It's a lot.

Wow. Well, I'm going to keep listening. There's still so much more out there. It's amazing that you have these other men. When do you think Russ will come around? When is he going to realize what he's involved in and be your next guest?

That That guy must be the biggest idiot. He has sat through what are now 32 episodes of my podcast, being out there in his hometown, and he's still telling people, Rachel's a pilot. Rachel's a nurse. I don't understand it.

I just think he just doesn't want to know. She's telling him, This is this crazy guy that's a Fame whore that's been after me for For 20 years, I'm sure she's saying stuff like that and giving enough reason to not want to look at flags, right?

I want to show you something. That my camera right there? Yeah. That. Her initials on my chest.

Oh, now I see it. Okay.

Still, by the way, the only reason they're still there is Billy Bush said to me, Don't do anything yet until Before we put this on television.

Okay.

Yeah, I still have her initials on my chest.

Did you get the ring back?

No, didn't get the ring back. By the way, this is what the lawyers call intentional infliction of emotional distress, what she did to me. There's no question.

Are you suing her?

Not yet, but I can't comment on ongoing.

Well, this was really juicy. Thank Thank you so much for coming. The podcast is called The Rachel Cancer Scam. You can see it all. I suggest you start from the beginning. Even though we gave an overview, there's so many crazy characters and things that go in between that I did not cover.

Not to mention, during the course of our story, she killed off more people than Eileen Warnos, who to this moment has been the most prolific female serial killer of our time. By the way, they were all Rachel deaths. They were not real deaths in our story.

Again, just adding more tragedy to her life.

Her already tragic life.

Yes. In which you're the captain, save a hoe to try to help the hoe who became a lawyer, who became a-Trauma nurse. Trauma nurse, helicopter pilot, and soon to be American Airlines full-blown 747 pilot.

With any luck, the future felon Which her lower skills will come in.

Oh, yeah. She represents herself, which she probably will want to represent herself. So Juicy, thank you so much for coming. Everybody, check it out. This was a good Juicy, grifter, scammer, love bomber, dirty John, dirty Jane, all of it.

I am exhausted. I seriously thought I was coming here for a fun chat, and I seriously feel like I ran-It was fun for me. It was great for you. It was great for you. I'm exhausted. I need a nap. I'm to use this couch as a nap. Look at these cute pillows.

Thank you so much. Thanks. Thank you.

Amy, my little one. I ask myself a million questions every day. When will you give me your first smile? How much sleep do you need? How can I help you and your big brother to get along? At the hse's mychild. Ie and in the free MyChild books, you'll find the answers you need from doctors, midwives, public health nurses, dietitians, and lots of other experts. Mychild. Ie. Expert advice for every step of pregnancy, baby, and toddler health from the HSE.