Transcript of Judge Judy Sheindlin

Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. I am star struck today. Very excited to have our guest, Judge Judy Scheinland, who you can catch right now on Prime Video's new show, Justice on Trial, which is a terrific news show where she takes on and breaks down a lot of famous cases. But we have Judy on today, and we're going to talk to her about a lot of things. We talk to her about the importance of family. We talk about knowing your worth. We talk about how she feels about liars, and news flash, she doesn't like them. Second news flash, she also wears a really cute hat. Judy is here. She's here in the studio, and it's a real good one. I'm really glad you're joining us. As always, we like to start our episodes by talking to someone who knows our guest, who is a fan of our guest. We actually have our first super fan interview today. We are talking to Eileen Roman, Eileen is the mom of Belle Roman, our video producer who's here in the studio today. Eileen is a huge fan of Judy and her work on Judge Judy and her other shows.

Eileen is going to talk to us about why Judy is so important to so many, why so many people trust her, and why her show was the number one show for a million years. Eileen is calling in. She's a Boston gal, and she has the same name as my mom. Eileen, are you there? This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Each Apple product, like the iPhone, is thoughtfully designed by skilled designers. The titanium Apple Card is no different. It's laser-etched, has no numbers, and earns you daily cash on everything you buy, including 3% back on everything at Apple. Apply for Apple Card on your iPhone in minutes. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard. Com. If you can have any. Oh, my God, it's so great to hear that Boston accent.

I try to tone it down, but it's really not easy.

No, I mean, we will never get rid of it. And why should we, Eileen?

Why should we?

Exactly. I'm proud of it. I think it's really great that we're talking Coming to somebody who watches Judy Scheindlin and has watched her. Sounds like as much as I have because I think we're both super fans.

Yeah, I am a super fan.

Okay. Tell me when you first encountered our guest, Judy.

I mean, In the beginning. In the beginning, there was nobody like her on TV, and she was just real. And the stories can be the same, but the outcome was never the same. And I just loved her. No nonsense, straight-talking, hard-working woman. That's why I have so much respect for her, because I know it probably wasn't an easy journey.

Now, were you a working mom?

I chose to be a stay-at-home mom, but I took that job really seriously, and I gave it 100%. I really did. And that's what my mindset, because I always worked my whole life since I was 12 years old. I have paper route, working in a restaurant, everything. I worked at Brigham's, I worked at Jerry Jingle. I worked at all kinds of places.

I love Brigham's. Yeah, Brigham's. Oh, my God. Best ice cream ever. So you remind me a little bit of my mom. My mom was a teacher. And then back then, if you were pregnant, you had to quit. It's true. They were like, So sorry, your job is over. You were like, Of course, I'm so sorry, I'm pregnant. She had to stop. She stopped teaching. She raised us. She was at home for X amount of years, and then went back to work after. You, like a lot of women your age, were at home with a baby and looking to figure out what to watch on daytime TV. What do you think was so great about those beginning times when you were watching Judy as Judge Judy on TV?

I learned a lot from her. I learned how to stand up for myself. I learned about the law, things I didn't realize. Like funny things, if you get engaged and you break off the engagement, you got to give that ring back.

You got to give it back.

Got to give it back.

I didn't know that. I mean, that's silly, I know, but it was just things like that. The other thing that I learned from her was, I don't know, to be honest. She just wanted people to be honest. Any case she ever had, she just always... She could read people. I just learned so much from her. I learned, Don't give someone money if you think you're not going to get it You're not going to get it back. There's a chance you won't. I learned that from her, too. People loaning money to their friends or relatives, that didn't always come back to them. She would teach them, You got to get it in writing. Things like that. I learned so much. She just talked to young people, young parents a lot, how to raise their children, think of education. Things like that is what I learned.

I know what you mean. She broke social protocol all the time and reminded us, especially us women, that we should just say it clearly and plainly and move on.

She took an advantage of. Don't be smart. She always say, be smart. They didn't keep me here because I'm beautiful. I know all this stuff.

Me, too. Beauty fades, but dumbs forever is a great Judy.

If you eat the steak, you I'm going to buy it. Things like that, right? Yeah.

And you're right. You're tapping into something that is deeper. There's something about watching her that felt calming?

She has a rough exterior, but I really think deep down. She's really soft. And I think that showed at the end of the cases. A lot of times she would say something really kind or be careful or take care of yourself or don't take an advantage. Sometimes There were women there that were taken advantage of, and she would just tell them to be bright and smart, and you have your whole life ahead of you. That's how I judged her. I just thought she was just wonderful.

Okay, so I have the pleasure of having Judy in the studio today. And by the way, and have the pleasure of working with your wonderful daughter.

Thank you. I'm so thrilled. I'm so proud of my daughter. This is a dream come true for her.

Let's talk about how great she is for a second. She's covering her face right now. Tell us about why Belle is so great.

Well, Belle, she's hardworking. She's kind. She has empathy for people, and she's really enthusiastic about what she does. She loves what she does. And it's so great to see your daughters achieve a dream that they've always wanted. And she did it on her own, and I'm really proud of her for that. I think my husband and I instilled a really great work ethic in them. And I really believe that. And I think that helped her journey to where she is right now.

Oh, that's so nice. I want you to know she's crying in the studio right now.

I'm so proud of her, Amy. You have no idea. And to have her work with you, it's just amazing. And I'm really impressed with... You're also one of my heroes because I love to see women in places where they guide and help other women through their work or their personal life. And I feel like that's what you do.

So I'm really- Thank you very much, Eileen. I really appreciate that. Okay, so we're going to ask Judy a question, and We're going to, and I need some help and some thoughts. What do you want me to ask her today?

Well, I think one of the reasons why I love Judge Judy so much is that she can really read people. She can really tell if you're telling the truth, if If they're hiding a secret, I really feel like she can read people. I want to know, did she always have that instinct in her? Or did that something that developed as time went on and she It became she had more cases in front of her? But I really think that is one of her most important attributes is that she can read people. She can tell what... She can read people. Yeah, she can't fool. You can't fool Judge Judy.

Believe me, I know I'm worried. I mean, we're about to do an interview. I mean, what if she just in the middle of it goes like, I don't believe you.

No, she knows.

She knows everything. It's going to be hard for me to not do a Judge Judy impersonation to Judy Shindlin, who, by the way, it's going to be hard not to call Judy Judge Judy.

You look like her today with your black robe on.

Thank you for saying that. Subconsciously, I try sometimes to think about slight subconscious ways as a nod to my guest, and I was like, I'm going to wear this.

You did it. It's going to be an honor to speak with her.

It is an honor. It's an honor. All right. Thank you so much, Aileen. Thank you so much, Amy.

I really appreciate it. Have a great day. I can't wait to hear this episode. I'm so excited.

Thanks so much. This episode is brought to you by Volkswagen. Here's the thing. You don't need a yacht, double-barrel last name, or a skincare fridge to feel fancy. You just need the 2025 Volkswagen Tiguan. It offers luxury that's actually within reach. I'm talking impressive interiors with real wood accents and massaging front seats because your back deserves the good life, too. Visit your local VW dealer or vw. Com to learn more about the 2025 Volkswagen Teguan. I love your style. I don't think people get to see you in your actual clothes. People only see you when you're working.

That's helpful. So you can walk around almost anonymously until you speak. It's interesting speaking. By the way, have you seen... Are we on now? Yeah, we're on. Have you seen those Baby Judge, Judy?

Yeah, the AI. The AI. I'm obsessed.

Is that frightening? That is so frightening.

You are all over TikTok in a way. I mean, everywhere. But your sound, your clips, your audio clips are everywhere online.

But is that fair? Good question. It's a good question. Is it fair? Because they can really have you say anything. They can have you comment about anything. I mean, I've seen some very reputable journalists It's talking about penile dysfunction, and clearly all AI generated.

But I would say the young people are very aware of AI. They are very sharp to see it and sense it. They know what is AI and what isn't. Their eye is now trained.

But you still have an older population. We have to be considered.

Well, I know. They're going to get the older population. That's who they're going to trick.

They're going to get the older population.

So you're We are doomed. Judge Judy is here. No, clearly not. Judy Scheindlin is here. We are so happy to have you here today. You're right. What I love about you is exactly these conversations, which is deep-end conversations right away. Complex deep-end conversations. You have them in life. I'm lucky enough to have had a few with you already as your new friend and also in your work. What I always appreciate about you is you are not afraid to discuss complicated things and also to admit things are complicated.

Yeah. You have to worry about it a little more when you get old because you get opinionated. If you notice that about old people, they get very opinionated. I know. You like to think as you age, you get to know people and you develop a tolerance, which I did for a period of time. That's over. That period of my life is over. I am so intolerant of anything that interferes with my everyday happiness. Okay. I said, What am I going to discuss with Amy today?

Look at Judy already taking over this interview.

So let's talk about kvetching.

Okay, good. Let's talk about it.

I love kvetching. It's a great thing.

Fantastic word, too. Great Yiddish word.

Yes. You live part in the city, part in the country. You're a country mouse and a city mouse. But in the city, and even in the country, you're supposed to pick up after your dog.

Don't even get me started.

I I mean, I actually walk my dog and I watch people and I can tell when they're pretending to look for a bag.

Oh, I had one, but I forgot. I have a dog outside in the world, but I don't have a bag with me.

I said, What should be the punishment for somebody who doesn't pick up after their dog? That's a great question. I came up with, death is probably a little too exaggerated. But let's take this example. Let's say you've been dating your fiancé, your boyfriend since high school, and you save up enough money to have a and do a photography piece in Central Park with your gown.

Oh, dear.

The photographer is there and you're in your gown that you've saved for for five years. You sit down on the grass because you're going to take this wonderful photograph with your gown spread out and somebody hasn't picked up after their dog. Now, as the punitive The punishment, the same? I mean, the crime is the same, but the effect on the victim is totally different.

If you're a- Your Honor, if I may. Yes. I think you are, if you're in a central park, if you're in a public place anywhere in New York, you can't sit down. The minute you sit down, you've given up all rights.

Well, so you think that there is joint culpability?

That's how to say it. Maybe. Why I like this thought experiment is you are a responsible dog owner. You care about your... I know you love your doggies. I think that it speaks to the deeper thing that you talk about all the time, which is what are the consequences of actions? I love what you say, which is there are reasons for behavior, but not excuses for behavior. That's true. And behavior, there's many reasons to behave a certain way, and that behavior has consequences. I think it speaks to the larger thing. We're like, where are all the consequences anymore? There's no consequences for anything anymore. This is what older people say and feel, but it feels that way right now in the world.

Yes. That has serious implications. That has serious political implications, and it has serious economic implications. I'll tell you a cute story about consequences. I don't think I've told you this story before. I had a case, one of my little cases on television, and it was a shopping cart from the Piggly Wiggly in Florida. I don't know. Somebody took their groceries, they filled their trunk with their groceries, and they left the cart. Gust of wind comes along and the cart goes into the next car and dents the car. The owner of the car sees this scenario unfolding and soos the person who left the cart. Interesting. The defense was it was an act of God. I didn't create the wind. I put the cart down. The cart was stable. A gust of wind came, blew the cart. Anyway, I found for the person whose car was damaged, my reasoning was, but for your negligence and not taking that extra moment to put the cart in the assigned position for carts, where they are, the wind would not have been able to pick up and hit and damage the car. Okay, so now we're fast forwarding about two or three months.

I'm in Florida, where I live in the wintertime. And shopping at Publix.

Fantastic. I'd love to see that.

It's a big parking lot. I load my car up with the groceries that I've gotten, and I notice that I park pretty far away from the appointed CART Patrol. I looked around, and there were three women standing in front of the store looking at me.

Wait for you to return the cart.

Wait for me, having seen that episode, waiting to see what I was going to do. So, of course, I took the cart and I put it back where you were supposed to.

I assumed you would have returned the cart no matter what.

I probably would have, but it was the reaction of the women. They said, All right, let's see if this gal follows what she preaches. It's a simple thing. Now I never go shopping unless I park my car car right next to the place where you deposit your car.

But you must get that a lot where people are turning to you to see if you're going to- Follow the rules. Yes. Because people know you as a person who talks about the importance of these rules. Then as a person in everyday life, we are human beings, we try as best we can to follow the rules. Do you get that a lot? Do you get people I'm projecting that on you?

I don't know whether I do or not, and I know this is going to sound a little hokey to you. Life has been very good to me, and I like to do the right thing. If you do the right thing most of the time or all of the time, it doesn't guarantee that at the end of the day, all good things will happen to you. But it's been my experience that if you don't do the right thing, eventually, not immediately, but eventually, that's going to come back.

There's so many things I want to get into because I'm curious as to where this strong feeling about there being a system to follow and the importance of law and order and also how you found yourself motivating yourself in your own path in life started very young I assume, in your own family. What was New York in the '50s like in Brooklyn? And what was the feeling in your family with your siblings and your parents about what was the way to operate?

Always the right thing. My father was a dentist. My mother ran his dental office. His dental office was in the house, so we were all very close. And there was never a question of trying to get over on the system. It was always you work, you earn a living, you take care of your family, you save up, you go to Grossinger's for a weekend for the Concord.

Wait, what was Grossinger's?

Grossinger's was a resort like the Concord Hotel.

Like Dirty Dancing?

Exactly, but bigger. Okay. But bigger. That's where Jewish people went for the weekend. Everybody was gluttonous. There was much too much food. You took dancing lessons. I hope that the people who watch your podcast know what Dirty Dance is. I hope they do, too.

I think they do. I think they do. I think turdy dancing is still a-It's still happening. But what was young Judy like? What was your-I pretty much followed the rules.

When the couple of times that I I incurred the disappointment, wrath of my father who never hit me, but I never wanted to disappoint him. I said, You know what? It wasn't worth it. Marvin wasn't worth it.

Sneaking away with Marvin.

Sneaking away with Marvin wasn't worth it.

It never is. No. But you've spoken about your relationship relationship with your dad. It was a very important one for you. Do you think it gave you confidence?

Of course. I do think that women find their confidence from their fathers. They find loving, et cetera, from their mothers, I think. I know some women who would argue with that. But the women I know who feel terrific about themselves had wonderful, encouraging relationships with their dads.

And you did? And I did. How did he used to encourage you? What did it look like?

What did it look like? It looked like if I had a pimple on my forehead, he said, Oh, my God, that is so gorgeous. Everyone should have one. Not quite as big as yours, but everyone should have one. And he recognized my limitations, I think, my intellectual limitations. I'm not an academic. And believe it or not, Amy, I'm not intellectually curious. Interesting. I'm not. If something is, it is. I don't have to know why it is. I know it just is. It makes my life much less complicated. And he understood that.

Was he like that?

No, he was more of an academic, and he filled people's teeth, but he wrote poetry, and he carved things in wood and soap. He loved the ballet in the He was more of a renaissance person. Not me. I'm a meat and potatoes girl.

But you're so good at figuring out- People. Where did you get your people skills?

That, I don't know. That, I don't know. That, I think, is probably genetic, just like music play, just like Mozart, Mozart or Rembrandt. I think you have a particular skill. I I think everybody has a particular skill.

Just getting back to little or younger Judy, you decide, okay, I have this part of me that sees the world this way. I want to go to law school. What year did you graduate law school?

I graduated, I think, in 1964 from law school. I did college in five and a half years, went summers, and got out of law school. Then I had It was a job that I hated.

Yeah, corporate lawyer?

I worked for L'Oréal of Paris. They were hiring two lawyers, a man and a woman. The man, they put in the corporate effect. Me, they gave a sheet of drug products, their L'Oréal products, suffrage and all different kinds of hair tints. They gave me the job of calling the drug stores and getting orders from them. He was doing law work. We were doing sales, basically. And I was doing sales secretarial work. So I did what you did then. You got pregnant. That was the only way to quit a job. To get out of your job. Then I was home for a while with my kids for a bit, and I started watching soap operas. Which one was? Now, I don't remember, but I said, Life has to be more than this for me. I was fortunate to go to an event, a lawyer's event, and I met a man who was a law student with me, and he said, I'm looking for somebody in the family court. I work at Corporation Council. In the family court, you're interested in a job. I remember going home and telling my family, I said, mommy's going to work and who's going to take care of us?

I said, a very nice lady. They said, who is it? I said, I don't know Not yet. But she'll be a very nice lady. You're going to be very happy.

But I love that story because I think on behalf of working women everywhere and women that work in the home, which is also its own job, that you always were an example of a woman who got great self-esteem from their work and we got to I see work in real-time. I mean, that is what watching you feels like. It feels like a very successful woman at work.

You can. I mean, you have two boys. You love them. They love you. We have this host of a family now.

You have a blended family.

We have a blended family. My second great grandchild, who's cute as a bugs here, I'm sure some would I prefer that I be home to make them a hot lunch and send it off to school like everybody else's parent moms did in those years.

Yeah, you were very unique in that way.

There weren't a lot of full-time working moms, but I can tell you now, they are reaping the benefit of my being a full-time working person.

How did you deal with being one of a few during that time? Did you struggle at all with feeling?

No, I I didn't struggle at all. I just felt as if it was right for me. I think that if you're happy at home, being a full-time homemaker and parent, They're needed. You need somebody to take kids on field trips and to be there for the bake sale and be a really active part of the PTA. That's what makes things go around. If that's satisfying for you, That's great. But I always believe that a woman has to have a way of earning a living.

Why?

Because if a woman, different from a man, if a woman doesn't have a way of supporting herself, she is in a position of being controlled. That doesn't happen all the time, and it doesn't always happen in a fashion that's aggressive. But that's a mentality. In the back of your mind, you should always have a way of saying, I don't like this. This is not making me happy. This is not making me fulfilled. I would like to change, but I can't because I don't have a plan. I don't have an exit plan. That's very sad for a woman. A man always has an exit plan. I mean, he could live out of... Most men can live out of a shoe. A woman, they really can.

But I think you were ahead of your time in that thinking. You were. I did. You were. I mean, you were unique in that way because you were coming up during a time when that wasn't always the way women certainly weren't encouraged to be that way, but also couldn't find it in themselves.

No, they were supposed to be nurses or teachers.

Yes.

My first husband thought that that was the only thing women did. They were nurses or teachers.

My mom talks about that, that her father sat her down and said, Do you want to be a nurse or a teacher?

Nurse or a teacher.

Yeah. He was a lovely man. He loved her? And loved her very much and believed her to be smart and all of those things, but just assumed, which one? That's your choice. Right. Yeah. Did you get any pushback at the time from other people? Were you Did you feel supported when you were making these choices in your life?

I felt always supported. I felt always supported.

Then you find yourself in family court, and you've spoken about this, but it's so interesting. I love how you speak about this, which is basically your life keeps unfolding, and we don't get to know you, Judy, until you're in your late 40s, maybe?

I started my program when I was 52.

Yeah. And you speak very often and really eloquently about the idea that you never know what is around the corner, and you never know how your life is going to unfold. And you just take this dramatic turn in your life from being in family court to being on TV. When you were first on TV, did you have to learn how to be yourself, quote, unquote, on TV?

It was easy. No, it was easy because I didn't have to make up a person. That's the person. If that's the person that they said, We want this person on TV, why would I want to modify that or change it? It was easy for me.

But being yourself isn't always... It's easy for you, but it isn't always easy for people.

That's unfortunate for them. It was very easy for me. The public can tell, Amy.

Yeah.

Public can tell when you're phony. Public can tell whether you believe what you're talking about. I often say, and you know, I say, If you tell the truth, you don't have to have a good memory. I stole that from somebody, but whoever I stole it from his dead. It's now become mine. We don't remember. I find if you tell the truth, it makes your life so much easier.

How can you tell when someone's lying?

Well, first of all, if it doesn't make sense, it's usually not true. If the story doesn't make sense to you when you're a relatively normal human being, it's usually not true.

But what I love so much about watching you work is in your show and shows, you can have a tolerance for people's unfortunate choices and mistakes and learning moments, but you have such a low tolerance for being lied to. It's like if someone lies to you, they're done.

Well, you can only lie to me once, and then everything else you say becomes suspect. Exactly. Did you have insurance on the car? Yes. Can I see the card? The dog ate it. My phone fell in the toilet.

I've seen you do something which I find very satisfying to watch and calming to watch is where you'll give them another chance in that moment. I see sometimes you say, I'm going to ask you again. You just say, maybe you just lied out of quick, sometimes, reflex. People are just so stressed.

You're being kind. You're a much kinder person than I am. You are. I know you are. You know what?

But the reason why I say it, Judy, is because I don't like to be stressed when I watch shows. I don't like to watch people argue, and I don't like to watch people be made fun of. It's not my thing. I loved watching your shows. I didn't feel like you were there to humiliate or to let people humiliate each other. There was a controlled environment that you were in charge of, and you were paying attention. There were times where I felt like there were gestures of grace where you would say, I'm going to let you answer that again.

One more time. That's nice of you. I'm glad. Listen, I'm glad you're a fan. Do you disagree? I know. Do I disagree? No. I think that sometimes people do. Their initial gut reaction is to be self-protective.

Yes. People lie because they're nervous.

They're protecting a position. Yes. Then if I catch you by the eye, I'm going to say, You know what? You have parents. Do you think the parents want to hear that? They're going to watch and they're going to tell their friends to watch this episode. They're going, You're having friends who will watch it. Are you sure you want to go there? Because I have the capacity, I have the capacity to make you look like an idiot. You want me to do that? It'll be my pleasure. I'm good at it. That's what they pay me for. I would much rather you tell me the truth. But if you don't, I can handle it.

You can handle it. I mean, you can do it. I mean, I imagine being somebody in your life who is... Do you find that what part of you in your personal life is softer than what we see on TV?

Everything.

So what part of you is the softy part that people don't get to see?

With my dog. When my dog snuzzles up next to me, if I'm not feeling well, and they can sense that. She usually sleeps on the foot of the bed. If she knows that I'm not feeling well, she comes over and checks on me at night. And I love to smell her. She smells so delicious. And nothing but giving. If you're an animal lover, then you know that it's pure love that they have have for you if they're a good dog. So I'm soft with her.

I find you to be very warm.

I like to think so.

So what would people describe as the warm parts of you that people don't get to see?

Sometimes you meet a person who has a kindred spirit. As you age, you peel that back and you eliminate people from your life. But every once in a while, you meet somebody new. That's what happened when we met. We don't see each other all the time, but I know we have a fondness for each other. That's a lovely thing. It's something that becomes more lovely when you're older because you used to have lots of people to meet. I came downtown today from Greenwich, Connecticut, where I live.

You don't do a lot of these, Judy.

I really appreciate. I only did That's one, and that's this one. Don't call.

Yeah, nobody else. Judy's not on some tour right now. Don't think she's going to do a bunch of these. She's not coming out of it.

She's not leaving Greenwich. I really just came to see you for an hour.

Okay, let's talk about us meeting because I feel like I manifested it in my own way and forced us to be friends. So thank you for going along with But it's true. I remember meeting for the very first time. We were on a talk show together. I think it was Kelly Rippa and whoever was hosting with her at the time, I don't remember. And then I brought in my book that I loved your books. I asked you to sign them. We had a quick talk. I thought, that's it. I won't bother Judy anymore with that. Then I heard that you were going to be given a Lifetime Achievement Award for the Daytime Emmies. I called up your people and said, Can I give it to Judy if she doesn't have someone giving it to her yet? And you very nicely said, Yes, it was my pleasure to write that speech. It was the easiest thing I had written. So then I got to give you the speech. We got to hang out. I had a very exciting moment where you handed me something on stage. Judy came up and gave me something in the palm of her hand, and I was like, And it was this.

You gave me this necklace, which I wear all the time. It's a very good luck charm for me. And then we started to create a friendship together. We started to like, Let's have lunch and let's actually try to be friends. And what I love about it, number one, is that I felt like it was... I mean, I'm the most... You are by far my most... I've been the most nervous and most star struck to interview you, everyone that I've interviewed. You are by far the most famous person that I've had in my mind on the show. And when you said yes, we jumped for joy because I know you don't do things you don't want do. Let's just put it that way. Not anymore. I don't know if you ever have, Judy. I don't know if you've ever really- Well, have you done a satellite media tour? Okay, you're right. You had to do a few things. Yeah. But it's what calms me about you is I know you're going to have no problem saying no to things you don't want to do. It really meant a lot that you came. It means a lot that you're...

Also, you represent What I think is your ethos, which is it's never too late to figure out what you want to do, and it's never too late to make new friends. How are friendships important to you? How did they sustain you?

They add a texture. We have a big family, and I could be busy with the big family all the time. They're different. The kids and their mates and grandchildren, they love different. But bringing in a new friend into your life, especially someone younger, if you are, is a whole new perspective It gives you a different texture for things. But for coming in to do this today, I can't even tell you where I would be or what I would be doing. But this was very good for me. I didn't know it when I said, I had heard you say someplace that you would like to have me as a guest. I was so touched by the fact that you took time and actually made a call to present me with something that is a very sweet moment for me with the Emmys. I said, This is a person who's really a mensh, and she's not a phony. When some people tell me about, I watched your show, I grew up with you. I sat with my grandma, could you please sign a picture? I want to put it in her casket because she loved you.

All true. I just got one from Germany, a letter from Germany, that this man's best friend passed away, and he was cremated, and he wants to be able to put a note from me with his friend's Asha. Could I please say something It's personal to Fred?

That you appreciate it being a friend. Fred is not going to know if you write that or not. You can get somebody else to write that.

But I knew that you had a different understanding of watching the courtroom and watching me in the courtroom. So I knew you got it. And you're so terribly talented, and it's just such a shame your plate is so full because otherwise, there are so many things that we could do together.

I still I want to work together, Judy. It would be fantastic to work together with you. I mean, we're both used to running the show, right? We both are like, we like to be- No, you're a writer.

You're the writer. You see, I don't have that talent.

Well, I would argue that you do have that talent.

You're doing it in- I don't know. Let me argue with you. I don't. Let me.

Hold on. Because you're writing in real-time on that show. You do not You have lines on that show.

No.

You've written how many books you're a writer. When are you going to call yourself a writer?

There's a creativity that you have that you have to know your limitations that I don't have. If I were to say to you, Amy, what I want to do for my next adventure that I would like you to play with me at doing, I want to steal I'll Baby Judge Judy back from AI.

Now I know why we started talking about it in the beginning. Now I get it.

I get it now. I want to take-We need to sue AI. Baby, I want to take Baby Judge. I haven't shut him down. I haven't even... I said, I want to get more people involved with this character. This is a genius idea. And then I want to take this character and create a South Parky so that I can Judy Kvetch through the baby. Speaking through Baby Judge Judy would be a whole lot of fun. It would be a lot of fun. But you need the right writer.

That's right.

I know- Judy is still pitching me on this. I'm still pitching her.

I love it.

I love it.

I love it. Because first of all, I'm very flattered. Two, what I think I hear you saying is that, and what I love about all the stuff that you do is you keep trying to figure out, in what way, what is my next adventure I mean, you're always looking for that. You're always looking for- You have to take your next adventure with your station in life.

Now, my next adventure is not being a centerfold. I know that.

You have to- Okay, but this is perfect. Let's talk about your bod.

Judy? It's not as wonderful as it was.

I've seen you in a T-shirt. You look incredible.

That was 10 years ago.

No, just a few years ago.

Well, a few. Life catches up with you. Yes. Life catches up with you. So if you're smart, I was at a Forbes conference years ago talking about women, and they said, If you had one piece of advice to a woman, and these were all business women, professional women, what would that one piece of advice be? And I thought for a moment, then I said, wear sleeveless as long as you can. That's my best advice. And then you have to know when to stop wearing sleeveless.

Of course, you got it. But you weight train.

I did, but I can't wear sleeveless. I don't care how much you weight train. Life catches up with you. That's why animation is so perfect. Because you can still have a voice.

That's right.

You still have a voice. You still can create the message. You're creating it through a fun character, and you can show up sleeveveless.

But to me, you're an incredible example of someone in their 80s who are… When I was growing up, being in your 80s was Cryptlike. Yeah. You barely knew anyone in their 80s. It was a miracle to live in your 80s.

Now we have people running the country in their 80s.

I was lucky enough to be invited to your 80th birthday, which was Western casual, an incredible dance party. You love to dance. You and Jerry were on the dance floor. Jerry's also-We were on the dance floor. We were on the dance floor. Thank you for remembering. Jerry's also keeping it tight. Jerry's also keeping it really tight. I guess. You guys are in great... I don't even just mean... I mean, it's just an energy for life, basically. I feel like I know people like myself are looking ahead to women in their 60s, 70s, and You used to see, how are you doing? Because you're right, life does catch up with you. But you don't need to decide to get caught up in what is a crazy amount of pressure and ageism in this country and how we We don't want older people to stop talking and disappear and retire. We want them to all get quiet and lie down and go away. You're certainly not doing that.

The trick is as you get older, you have to stay relevant. If you are interesting, people will want to gravitate to you. Old people will want to gravitate to you, and you have to be able to say to old people who want to gravitate to you, You can't pull me down. You want to get out there and chacha with me? Great. But I'm not sitting home with you and watching the filter in the pool. If all else fails, I can always get a job with a law firm because I had a roll back. You weren't stuck.

Yeah. I mean, that's what it felt like watching your show is you didn't have a vibe of like... I don't know how else to say it. It wasn't a thirsty vibe, as the kids say. It was like, I'm going to do the job I usually do. I'm going to try to do it over here. If you like it, great. If you don't like it, fine by me. So watch. And that is also an incredible negotiation technique. And look, I don't want to talk to you about, we all know how incredibly successful your show was and how incredibly successful you were on it. But I think that the way you talk about negotiation and the way you negotiated is interesting, especially for women.

You have to know your worth. You have to know your worth. And women often have a problem fully appreciating their worth. I didn't at the beginning, but I quickly, I was a fast read on this one, I quickly understood that I could go anywhere. But as hard as you try, you haven't been able to find anybody to do this. You've put on a lot of people. You've tried a lot of alternatives that haven't been as successful. So you want to continue making what you make, I'm going to teach you how to be a partner rather than an employer.

Good language. I'm going to teach you how to be a partner. Can you tell everyone how you would negotiate?

Well, every few years, I would sit down with the president of our company at the Grill on the Alley We all knew what was... We were there to talk about renewal, and I would have an envelope, and in the envelope would be two or three conditions, three years or four years. This is my salary, but nothing lengthy. I would take out the envelope and pass it over to whoever the president was who kept getting changed. I was still the same person. I recognized that. The face at the other side changed, but this face was the same. I would slip in the envelope and I would say, Don't open it until you get home. Let's have dinner first. Then tomorrow, you'll tell me, Yey or Nay. One The final year, the president of the then company was adorable. I won't name him. When I took out my envelope, he said, Judy, I have an envelope. When I handed him, he went to hand me mine. I said, I'm not taking your envelope because if I take your envelope, it's a negotiation. This isn't a negotiation. He laughed. He actually left. I said, But it was true.

If I took it and looked at it and opened it because... Of course. Well, he did say, Maybe it's more than what's in yours. I said, Then I'm a loser. Then I'm a loser. But this will satisfy me. Yes. This will satisfy me. They put it away. We had a great dinner and we signed on for another few years.

It's so baller. Also, it goes to exactly what you talk about, that when you're trying to figure out how to negotiate, it's like less is more. Figure out your worth, state it, and then the ball is in someone else's court.

Yes, but you have to make yourself indispensable. That's the key. You don't have to be a television personality to make yourself indispensable. I know doctors who close their practices five years early because their assistant or their secretary who runs the office says, You know what? I'm retiring. And they say, Well, you can't retire. I'm not ready to retire. I can't run this place without you. Well, you You want me to stay? I don't want to work on Friday. I want three weeks of vacation in the summer, and this is my new salary. Well, you've made yourself indispensable. It doesn't matter what you are. And you have to be aware of that. How you fit in. Can somebody else that they find do what you do? You can't have unreasonable expectations. I mean, you can't want to own the company. Well, you could want to own the company, but who would want to own that company?

Then- Have you bought the company?

Who would want? I don't consider myself an artist, so it's easy for me to get down and dirty.

Yeah.

Interesting. I don't have an agent, and I don't have a manager. I mean, incredible.

I mean, the fact that you negotiated yourself in person.

Well, that's easy. It's much harder for the company who needs you to turn you down in person than it It is to turn down some intermediary that is dealing for 50 people. And he said, he's... And also when it becomes less urgent for you.

Well, that's what it felt like always. Again, that's why it was interesting to watch your show. It did not feel like, honestly, that you even had dreams about being on television. No, I didn't. Yeah. So watching it was... And I wanted to ask you a question. So we do this thing where we ask somebody who is a friend of our guests, who knows our guests or is a fan of our guests, we ask them a question that they should give to me to ask you. First of all, I tried to get your buddy Sam Jackson. He's not available. He's on a boat.

Oh, it's summertime. Sam would be on a boat.

I don't know a lot of people know that you and Samuel L. Jackson are great friends. We are great friends. Like, really good friends. Can you just tell me how you guys met?

We met through Sam's agent, Tony Howard. The one thing Sam hates more than anything in the world is bullshit.

Yeah. You both love that.

He's right up front, and everybody knows that. I think that that's what made us friends. We get each other. He has a wonderful wife, Latanya, wonderful and talented wife, and he does spend the summer on a boat.

Yeah, he's on a boat. The question I got today was, so Bell, one of our video producers here. Belle, how old are you? I'm 32. 32.

I have food in my refrigerator older than you are.

So Belle is a big fan of you, like everyone here. And also, Belle's mother, Eileen, who is also the same name as my mom, share where Eileen has watched you since the beginning, and she felt very, I guess the way she would say is seen, heard, and represented. And we talked about how your show gave both of us this sense of almost like a grounding in a very watery world. You watch it and you're like, two sides come. There's some judgment. There might be some way out of this mess. That's how it always felt. It's not going to be perfect, but we're going to try the best we can to figure it out in real-time. We're going to ask people to tell the truth, and there's going to be somebody in charge that isn't going to let things go crazy.

Somebody in charge who's a woman, which is probably what? That's right. Eileen?

Eileen.

But probably, I don't know your mom, but I think that a lot With women, I know from what people tell me, a lot of women who felt that there weren't options for them because they had not seen situations where women were in control, not only of their own lives, but a lot of other people's lives as well, that it made them feel good and perhaps gave them a little bit of a jolt. You don't have to stay in that terrible situation. You can, but you can push yourself. You can do better. Don't bring that other bum home from the bar and give him your credit card and let him drain your bank account. And look at him. There's nothing there. Look, I see. I would watch some wonderful women, wonderful, smart, professional, working women. And I'd look at the schlub that they gave their car to and their own credit card that they paid for. And I would look at them and I would say, You must have something that I'm not seeing. It made them feel good because somebody had taken advantage of them, or they felt felt that they had no power, that they were just going through the motions of life.

You were breaking social protocol. You were saying it out loud in real-time.

I was saying it out loud. You get flack when you have an opinion, and I have very strong opinions about everything, you get flak.

Yeah.

I don't care. I think we're almost at the end, but I'm going to tell you. I love that Judy is wrapping this up. I'm going to tell you one story. You said sometimes some people like and some people don't like. When did you know that you were an entertainer?

Yeah.

Jerry and I were sitting in a bagel restaurant called Tal Bagel on First Avenue when we were living in the city, and we would go there for coffee in the morning. There were two women sitting not too far away. You got your bagel and you came down, you sat down at the table. We overheard them and they were talking about the show. One of them said, Oh, God, I love her. I cannot wait for four o'clock. I love her. And the other one said, I can't stand her. She is such a bitch. She is such a mean-spirited person. And I looked at Jerry and I said to him, I know I'm an entertainer. I don't care what they think as long as they watch. One hates you. And when you look at the people who, you look as I sometimes do at IMBD or whatever it is, you see how your show is rated, right? You have five, and it's this big yellow line. Then you have a one, people love you all the way to five, people who hate you all the way to one. Then there's two, three, four in the middle. I have very few two, three, four in the middle.

I get fives and ones. That's it. You love her or you hate her as long as you watch.

And they do, too.

They watch. You I throw a shoe at the television. I don't care. As long as your Nielsen number then when I was connected to Nielsen is there. Now ask your question.

Well, this question is actually it ties into what you're saying because Eileen was asking, you have a strong sense of intuition about yourself and other people. Her question was, was it learned or was it natural? I feel like we talked about it. But what it speaks to is this bigger idea of you stay very You track yourself really well. You know what you want. You have a strong sense of self.

I do. It came from father.

It came from dad.

It came from dad.

How do you cultivate it? How do you keep cultivating it in yourself? How do you help other people find it, or do you?

Everything is by example, Amy. I don't think that you can... If somebody is sick, you can't tell them, Feel better. I want you to feel better. I I want you to, You're not happy? Be happy. Ra-ra, get happy. You can't do that for someone else. All you can do is set the table.

Is there anything you're not as certain about as you get older?

I don't know the answer to that question, but I think younger people, and it may be good, they're more naval gazers than I I don't sit there and say, Oh, my God, are you in or out or left or right? But I don't. I'm a what is, what is, girl, because I probably could benefit from therapy.

Never been?

Never been. People will say, Well, you for sure could benefit from therapy. I say, Well, that's true, but I really don't I want to know.

I understand.

I'm not that interested in why I feel the way I feel and why this hurts me and why this makes me happy or why this makes me sad. I just want to say this makes me sad. And if I can excise it from my life. So the answer is I'm not that introspective. And as I said when I started this chat with you, I'm really not an I'm not inquisitive. I'm not intellectually inquisitive. If I like the pizza, I like the pizza. If I don't, I don't. I don't want to know what you put in your pizza so that it would make it a better pizza. I don't care. I'll go from Joe's Pizza to Anthony's Pizza, where I know I like it and not try to change Joe.

The very last question, what is making you laugh? I know you love to laugh. You're a big laffer. In these times, in these days, where do you go to let off steam? Is it old stuff? Is it new stuff? Do you listen to stuff? Where do you go to to laugh?

I have very funny children. That's great. Many of them have over the top funny sense of the world, funny sense of themselves. We see each other often. I keep the family close to wherever I am, and they're all wonderful and accomplished. They make me laugh. I don't find anything really... The people that made me laugh were old school people. Who were they? Who were they? Don Rickles made me laugh.

I love Don Rickles.

There were moments when Henny Youngman made me laugh. Take my wife, please.

Did Do your kids tease and wrote?

No, they view the world with a light eye, and they're fun and funny. Anyway, it's been fabulous.

Okay, Judy's done. Judy's done. I love it. You're right. I've taken too much of your time. Judy, thank you for doing this. Thank you. It means so much. I really appreciate you being here. Love you.

Thank you. Love you.

Wow, that was really incredible. It was really exciting to have Judy in the studio and I really hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did. For this Polar Plunge, as we wrap up this episode, I just want to remind everybody to return their grocery carts into, at the very least, an empty space, and if not, the designated area. I know it's a thing, right? You get all your groceries in your car and you think, I'm done, and the idea of going back out and doing that. But it does make a difference. I would implore to try to even grab one that isn't yours. And then an angel gets its wings. If you believe in karma, I don't know, that's a good thing to do. So just do it. Just do it. And picture, just like Judy did, all these women staring at you and judging you. Picture people judging you. That can really motivate you to do good things. Bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weis-Burman, and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paperkite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya MacMullen, and Elea Zanaris.

For Paperkite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovelle, and Jenna Weis-Burman. Original music by Amy Miles. All I ever wanted was a really good hang.