Transcript of Tony Hawk: "They Offered Me $500K For Everything, I Said No!" | Ep. 449 with Tony Hawk

A skateboard and a steel mindset can change your life. You don't give up. I had put my body on the line so many times with that move for over 10 years. Threw out my back, broke my rib, came away limping every session without coming through. When I finally did it, it was like, oh yes, I can put that behind me.

Tony Hawk, everybody!

Tony Hawk.

The first man to land a 900. The name behind a video game franchise that did nearly $2 billion in sales. Then he put everything into building a business for skateboarders.

You risked your house to start Birdhouse when skateboarding was dying. Conviction or insanity?

A little bit of both. We were so full of our previous success that we felt invincible, and that was the hard lesson.

What was the darkest moment?

When you're so hyper-focused on something like that, you lose So, Tony, I mean, this room is incredible.

What is one thing in this room that we're in right now that if you could only hold on to that one thing, what would it be?

Oh, wow. That is— I didn't think this was gonna be so heavy out of the gate. Uh, good question. I would say probably This board right here, because it was one of the first, uh, signature models I had and, and one of the first ones I rode in 1982. So this is one of the first skateboards with my name on it, and I actually rode this in 2 different competitions then.

Wow.

Um, and then I gave it to an amateur skater at the time as a hand-me-down, and he gave it back to me about 10 years ago. So this one has like come full circle.

Wow, that's amazing. So I know we went deep, we went deep right away.

That's okay. I mean, that one, I guess if I'm looking around, that's the one.

What is that thing?

This is a prop that they used in the movie Hook for Robin Williams.

Oh yes, I remember that.

Robin Williams' character rode this board and then fell off of it and it shot up and went through a basketball hoop and landed back on him.

Wow.

So it's not rideable, but I just love how it looks.

It's bamboo.

It's such a great prop, like, that they put time and care into making.

I mean, it stands out. It stands out for sure.

Yeah.

Let's go back to your history, because I grew up, I wanted to be a skater, but I was horrible at it. Rollerblades were my thing. I was doing on the curb, getting injured every other day, and I realized this isn't going to be my profession.

Okay.

When you told people around you, your family, friends, that this is the thing you're going to do? Did they think you were crazy?

I was so young, it wasn't even really a concern that I'm choosing a career because— and I guess if I had to put it in the context of inline skating, like, inline skating in the '90s was a viable career option. People were making money at it. People were professional at it. When I started skating, yeah, people were professional, but that didn't mean they made any money. It just meant that they had their name on a skateboard and that they might be able to win $100 first place in a skate competition. Like, that was peak skateboarding in 1980, '81. So when I chose to do it, I was only 11, 12 when I got serious. And, you know, it just didn't feel like I was choosing a career. Um, so they didn't I didn't really get— I mean, people made fun of my skating, my skate style, but my friends and family just thought, thank God he's got somewhere to focus his energy, because I was like just a ball of hyperactivity, as they used to say. That was the term in the '80s.

No ADHD then. It didn't exist.

They called you hyperactive. And most of us wore that as a badge of honor.

Has that always been a passion, or do you have any other passions?

Skateboarding?

Yeah.

Yeah, in board sports in general. So I was surfing as long as I've been skating. Not nearly as accomplished at it, of course, but— and snowboarding when snowboarding was created, basically. And the only other hobby or passion that I had before that was playing violin.

Oh.

And I played violin until I was about 12. And that is when my violin teacher got upset with me because I would go off to skate competitions on the weekends and not play in school concerts. And he told me I had to choose.

What do you think would have happened if you—

I mean, I, I don't think I would have been, you know, some maestro violinist, but, um—

Could you imagine if you stopped skating for violin?

There's part of me that regrets listening to him because I miss being able to do it. Like, I tried to pick it up and it wasn't like riding a bike. It's hard. There's so much nuance. And there's this— obviously playing an instrument is something, but, but the fact that he made me choose was— seemed mean to me. But maybe he was right because—

Do you still remember that teacher?

No.

No. I'm wondering, I'm curious what he would think of it, like making you the decision.

Maybe he, maybe he thinks he helped you choose the right path.

Maybe. Yeah, yeah, maybe. Yeah.

He takes credit.

But also, I mean, he sometimes— I literally couldn't play some shows because I was injured. So for him it was like, that's just a— that's non-negotiable. You're out.

At some point I read that you were making more than your teachers. However though, You then went to living on $5 a day Taco Bell because of the changes in the industry. Were you close to quitting?

I was never going to quit skateboarding. No, because, I mean, look, I started doing it when it was the furthest thing from cool you could do. I started doing it when my classmates would make fun of me for skateboarding to the point where they said, haven't you outgrown that yet? When I was 13. Right. So I was already used to the ridicule and I just loved doing it. Like, I didn't do it for accolades, obviously. I never— I didn't get into it because I thought I was going to be rich or famous, because nobody was rich or famous. So when it took a downturn in terms of an industry, a business, and in popularity, I just knew I had to find a way to make a living, but I was never going to quit skating.

You risked your house to start Birdhouse when skateboarding was dying. Conviction or insanity?

A little bit of both, I think. I, um, I knew I wanted to be still in the skate world, industry, business, whatever you want to call it. And I think I had enough experience and belief that I saw skateboarding come and go already 2 times by the time— we're talking about 1992 is when I started Birdhouse. And I thought, well, then that means it's cyclical and maybe it will come back around again. And obviously my time as a pro must be coming to an end because I'm old now. I was, I was 24. And so I was considered old for a pro skater. I was considered outdated as a vert skater, as a halfpipe skater. And so I thought, okay, I'm going to start a business and, and do— be behind the scenes and then curate a team and, and aesthetic. and just do our own thing. And that's what we did. But it was, it was hard. Like, the, the first 4 years of Birdhouse were not profitable. And I did— I had— I took a second mortgage out on my house, ended up selling that house for what I owed on it, moved into a much smaller place, and scrimped and saved and ate Instant noodles and Taco Bell, um, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for years.

But I never— I, you know, when looking back, it wasn't like I was— felt like I was struggling or felt like I was trying to figure out where my next meal— it wasn't like that dire. It was just I had to cut back if I wanted to keep skating. I had to cut back.

Mm-hmm.

And I, at that point, was providing for a family. So I was doing everything I could to make up for that by doing— I learned how to edit video back when video was just coming into digital form. So I was kind of ahead of the game. And so I did freelance video editing for about a year to make ends meet.

If somebody was to ask you to become a legend, pioneer, icon that you are, Is it possible to do without such sacrifice? What would you say?

I don't— that's tough. I feel like in my time, no. I mean, I was completely obsessed with skating and with really with my own skating, um, and focused on it and, and wanted to just keep getting better at it, you know, probably to a fault because I was, I was, I had success, but I was never resting on my accolades. And it wasn't about that, the trophies anyway. It was about getting better, getting better and getting better at it. And when you're, when you're so hyper-focused on something like that, you lose sight of everything else, relationships, um, and how to prioritize your time. And, you know, you, you get, uh, you get obsessed.

Possessed.

Possessed.

I like it. But I think with what I know now and how I can allocate my time and prioritize it, it was something I had to learn the hard way. But I feel like if you're asking me, is it necessary? There are probably resources available now that I definitely didn't have that could make— that could help you to balance that out.

Activision offered you half a million dollars to give up future royalties. Why did you say no?

Only because I luckily found myself in a position that I was not trying to— that I wasn't living paycheck to paycheck anymore. And that had just— I just turned that corner, and I had a new house with a mortgage I could afford. And when they offered me that money, that— yes, that sounds fantastical. I mean, I never heard anyone even speak numbers like that in front of me. Because when you say half a million dollars, it sounds like half a gazillion dollars. But, but I realized that I'm doing all right. And I don't absolutely need this money. So I'm gonna let it ride.

Fast.

You know, that's my risky gambling side, which is definitely part of being a skater, is putting yourself at risk.

I know before that you had a bad licensing deal, correct? I think you even saw your face on toilet paper.

I did, yeah. Well, not face, but my signature.

Oh, your name.

Yeah.

Your name. That would have been cooler though. That would have been— have you ever tried that? You know what? The Tony Hawk toilet paper? TT?

Let's talk after this.

THC?

This is gonna be live on Amazon Prime.

There you go. TikTok Shop.

Those are for the true haters.

TikTok Shop. Yeah, whether you hate or love. Yeah, yeah.

No, I— well, what happened was I just, I learned the hard way that I can't just sign my IP away and, and give anyone approval to put my name on products that I wouldn't see. Um, and it came to a head when I went to this company that was doing licensing. They were doing fingerboards and Uh, watches, uh, wallets, just accessory type stuff. And it just wasn't of the quality that I would've approved. And, and then I saw that they had this sort of, it looked like a test unit, like of toilet paper with my name. And I was like, what, what is this? And they said, oh, one of our accounts, uh, jokingly said, well, you could put your name, his name on anything and it'll sell. So we made that for them. But, and yes, it, I understand that that was funny, but all at the same time, it was at the expense of my actual name and likeness.

Mm-hmm.

And I realized in that moment that they didn't care about the quality of stuff with my name on. They just, they just wanted to sell product. They just wanted a new product. And I actually had to pay a lawyer to get me outta the contract because I, I said, you can't just put my name on this stuff. And they said, actually, we can.

It better be Cottonelle. If they put my name on something, I only want Cottonelle toilet paper because otherwise I'd be very insulted. You know, like, it better be the comfortable 3-ply.

What's the thread count?

155 Egyptian thread. Do you think though of this happening to you, because that was before Activision, correct?

Way before, yeah.

So do you think that experience though led you into when Activision came around, you had a slight knowledge?

It was one of those stepping stones. Yeah, I think the, the, the time that I really— the, the most profound time for me was, was years later when skating started to come back around. Because this is what the year I'm talking about is, like '88, '89. Um, and then we kind of went through the downturn of skating, uh, as a business. And then in the late '90s, it started to come back around with X Games and stuff. And I did a promotion in 1997, uh, for a cereal brand in New York. And I thought it was the biggest— it was, it was the biggest thing I'd ever done in terms of being like, uh, a brand partnership, a brand endorser. They did this huge event, uh, in New York City with a ramp and with an announcer, and they brought in a crowd of people, and, and we had to basically talk about the cereal mascot as if he's our real friend, and we're so glad that he's into our sports now. And the whole time I just felt— I mean, obviously it's dishonest and silly, but it just felt like a cheat. And it felt like we were losing the integrity of our sports to fit in with with marketing to fit in with, uh, you know, the ad agencies of Madison Avenue or whatever it is in New York City.

And, and I was like, this is not staying core to our values. And then I did, I, I did it. I was contractually obligated to do it, kind of slyly made fun of it in the, in the way when I was doing it, um, because I had some other— I was, I was with other, uh, people like Dave Mirra was there and Johnny Moseley was there. I mean, all this stuff is not hard to find, but— and we were all kind of feeling silly about it too. But right after that, I got the Activision contract. I got the Activision offer. And I— because of my experience at that commercial promotion, I was like, whatever they do, if they're gonna put my name on it, I have to have approval over it.

Mm-hmm.

And that was the best timing for that. And luckily Activision didn't have high hopes for this game. They knew it was gonna be a fun project. And so they let me have that, that approval. Um, they agreed to my contract.

Hmm.

And that was, I mean, beyond obviously getting offered crazy money for a buyout, that was the best thing about it. Because then when the game came out and it was proven to be something that the core community liked, but also the mainstream community liked, I had a lot more leverage when I would do brand partnerships after that because they would trust my voice. And that continues to this day.

Tony, what advice would you give to a talented content creator nowadays to protect their image and business?

Um, keep control of your brand. I mean, as soon as someone wants to either license it or buy it or whatever it is, merge, and you don't have that creative control, they are not going to do it in, in your voice. They're not going to do it in the, in the value system that you've created.

Do you like being an entrepreneur?

Sure, yeah. Well, I mean, when there's success.

I actually met you here in San Diego in 2015 for the Entrepreneurs Organization. You were a keynote speaker. Oh yeah, yeah.

I mean, yes, being an entrepreneur is fun, and it feels like you're always in something new, and there's exciting, and there's build. And, um, you know, you're building— helping to build a brand or a direction or whatever, but it doesn't always work. And I would say more often than not, it doesn't work.

What was the darkest moment of your entrepreneur, or the maybe even the lowest?

We had a successful skate brand, Birdhouse. We have a successful skate brand, but we also had a distribution company attached to Birdhouse. We were doing other skate brands and other skate accessories, at some point surfboards. And we decided to help fund a high-end denim brand because we thought the designer was amazing. And he was, and he had a really good eye. And we were into that time. I mean, this is like— early 2000s, and, um, we were wearing the gear and we thought that the look was cool and got way in over our head, had way too much, um, at risk in terms of loans to this company. To— we didn't understand the cost of production. We just didn't, you know. And also, like, people don't want to spend $200 on jeans. Crazy, you know. But we were, we were so kind of euphorically approaching it because of everything, all the other success we had. And at some point it was like, oh, we— this, this company's dragging us down as a distribution company, and we're barely gonna get out of this, you know, even if we sell it. We did end up selling the brand for what we owed the bank.

So I would say that was the darkest because it pulled profits from everything else. Um, and, and other people that weren't associated with the brand felt the pinch and it was unfair to them.

Reminds me of JNCO. You remember JNCO jeans?

Sure. Yeah. This was on a much smaller scale than JNCO, but yes.

I remember I had one pair because it was so expensive. I saved up for like 3 months to buy one pair of jeans and then they just eventually disappeared.

Yeah.

These weren't gigantic. That wasn't the look.

But I know my, my jeans were the size of this table, which is kind of coming around again.

That, yeah, that's, that's almost retro and cool again.

It's definitely hard opening a new industry, new category, and it requires a lot of capital doing into that luxury.

It is. But like I said, we were so, we were so full of our previous success that we felt invincible. Yeah. And that was the hard lesson. Like, no, if you're getting into a into a business that you're not familiar with or you're not confident with, it's probably not going to work.

Do you have people constantly coming at you with ideas or things they want to do? I imagine it would be hard to, with this experience, then you have all these other people coming to you like, I have this idea, do you want to get into this? Do you cautiously approach things?

I cautiously approach things. Yes, that's probably the best summary of what you just said.

Yeah.

But I do get a lot of it. And, and I, to be honest, I, I get a lot of sort of side door offers of, of things where this is already funded, we're oversubscribed, but if you want to come in, we'll let you come in. And if it's something that I think is, has a lot of potential, I will. But I definitely have spread myself thin on investments in recent years, and not everything is, is hitting or, or But they're, they're moving along. They're not, you know, they're not all failing, but, but I was in a lot of ways expecting, like, are we gonna get our return? Is there an exit here? Uh, but that's not up to me. And, and obviously I have the same thing where I've had some great successes as an investor and you get used to that and that's not the norm. And I know that now.

Yeah. They said like you invest most VC, but invest in 10 and 2 get lucky. And so that's about—

I'll go with that.

That sounds like a pretty good— that sounds maybe better of Oz than I have going right now.

But yeah.

Tony, you helped build a video game franchise with nearly $2 billion in sales. Should Tony Hawk have owned more of Tony Hawk?

Oh, I would never complain about the royalties that I made from video games. Sure, I could have maybe gotten a better contract somehow, but, but I don't think I could have at that time because Activision was relatively small at the time I signed on with them. I didn't have any other options. Um, so we had— I mean, I think the, the partnership was beyond, um, anything I could have dreamed once it started being successful. And so, um, to answer your question, I don't think so. And I, I'm so thankful with my relationship with Activision. Like, we had the best run ever. It was crazy. I'm gonna— I would be insane to complain about that.

When you hear $2 billion in sales, and I imagine they're also very thankful of you because I remember Activision at the time. I think they— I don't know if they got bought by Blizzard or there's— I know over time they've become something.

Their biggest hit, but it's when I connected with them was Pitfall.

I don't even remember Pitfall.

Well, because you're not that old.

Oh, maybe I do. So, I mean, so they must have been the same thing. They're as— it sounds like they're probably as thankful to you as you are to them. Sure.

And I've had plenty of honest conversations with them about it. I mean—

What comes to mind when you think like, wow, something like my name, my likeness, my hard work turned into $2 billion in sales?

Well, it just sounds outlandish. Um, I can only speak to how it affected me, um, in terms of my career. Uh, yes, my finances, but more just like people— when people say Tony Hawk, half the time they're talking about a video game, which is wild. And I'm honored. Um, but I never imagined that that would be my brand. So to speak.

When you hit that 900, because I imagine you did it over and over and over again. When you hit that, were you like—

The attempts?

The attempts. Yeah.

I tried it for more than 10 years, off and on.

When you hit it, when you did it, did you feel empty after, now that you achieved it?

No, it was just relief. Not empty. No, not at all. I mean, I think what people, what people saw in that moment, um, obviously just the, the determination, the grit of what it takes to, to skate, but, but more like that is what it's about for us, is trying something you've never done before. Even if it's someone— even, even if you're trying to learn a trick that exists, a kickflip or whatever, when you finally do it, like, the only person responsible for that is you.

Yeah.

And it was because of your absolute determination, perseverance, endurance that you made it happen. So I think what people saw in that moment was what it takes to be a skateboarder, to do a skateboard trick. For me, it was more just like I'd put my body on the line so many times with that move for over 10 years by that point. Um, threw out my back, broke my rib, uh, you know, came away limping every session without, without coming through. Uh, and I'd almost get— I had kind of given up on at that point. So when I finally did it, it was like, oh yes, I can put that behind me. But empty? No, it was more like— and, and that's, you know, probably a detriment to me and my mental health was What's next? Because after that, I was like, oh, I got this now, variations of this. I want to do an Indy, I want to do a varial. And I tried and failed, but that's more my mindset.

And is that still worth it with all the injury?

Yeah, I mean, I— yeah, the injuries, the injuries suck, but I, but I would never trade them for what skateboarding brought me in terms of My sense of self.

You don't look injured now, so that's good.

It's good. Yeah, well, you haven't, you haven't seen me try to back up my car. How's the knees? I mean, I, I mean, I definitely have—

You always wore pads and a helmet. That's one thing I liked about watching you.

Yeah, well, you're generally, you're going to do that if you're riding big vert. I mean, my ramp is 14 feet tall, so if you're going to ride something of that stature, you're going to probably do it with pads. But really, my— the nature of my injuries mostly— yeah, I've broken— I broke my elbow and my leg and my pelvis and my thumb and fractured my skull and all this other stuff. But, but really, the, the biggest ongoing chronic issue is, is whiplash.

Mm.

Because when we fall, especially if we think we've made something, you shoot out. So you get this like snap of your neck. And that's what has kind of plagued me the last 10 years or so. But I actually got proactive and I went to BioXcellerator in Columbia and I got stem cells on my neck and my cervical spine, and I got basically 20 degrees of range back in all directions of my neck. And, you know, I'm not some— this is not some paid endorsement. I'm just telling you the truth.

I've been thinking about getting it for my knees because when I walk downstairs, I can hear Crispies. Like Rice Krispie treats in my knees.

You have the crunchies.

I have the crunchies.

I mean, I got the crunchies elsewhere.

Okay.

For sure.

And like my elbow and stuff. But this is what was preventing me from skating to my fullest.

Skating was, at least when I think back to my time, it was an interesting culture of like not selling out. Like there was this whole thing of like almost an underground feel. When you got bigger and you got more popular and you were doing more things, did people come to you like, oh, you're a sellout?

All day. Yeah, absolutely.

It's still—

but, you know, I never— like, I didn't get into skating because I was trying to gatekeep it or covet it. I did it just because I loved it so much. And if I was able to make a living at it, all the better. And so when you ask me, like, for instance, I did— obviously I did some big campaigns I mean, Activision is, is, is a gift they kept on giving, but, um, I did big campaigns for, uh, fast food restaurants and for snacks and things like that, cereal and whatnot. Uh, I wasn't, I, I wasn't warping my values to get there. It, it's like if those companies had reached out to me when I was 14, that would've been amazing. If they reached out to me when I was 22 and barely paying my mortgage, that would have been even better because I was still like, like I was eating at those places. I was eating those products. I was, I was participating in it. You know what I mean? It's not like I was like, I only eat organic. And, and then I got an offer like, oh, never mind. It was, it was never like that.

So, um, I don't know if that answers your question, but it's just more like we didn't have a chance to sell out.

Yeah.

Because the opportunities weren't even there. And then it was like when I got the opportunity to do big campaigns and big endorsements, I made sure that the quality control was there. And so when I was presenting skateboarding to a bigger audience, maybe, maybe a TV audience that had never seen it, it's going to be of the best quality and integrity about skateboarding. So yes, the creative could be all over the place and do some of it silly and whatnot, but if you're gonna show skateboarding, it's gonna be in its realest sense. And I feel like I did a good job doing that.

Did you eat your Wheaties?

Um, I— well, yeah, but Frost Flakes. In fact, uh, Tony the Tiger was on my ramp 2 years ago.

That's cool.

Which is wild. I mean, that, that's the kind of thing that's like I first placed my entire childhood, you know what I mean? And now that I'm— I mean, I'm on a box. Like, it's crazy. That kind of stuff, it's just super fun to me. So I don't think about— well, I don't even consider that— is that compromising my values? Absolutely not. It's like celebrating where I came from.

Skateboarding and AI, what do you think of the technology?

Honestly, AI has not been able to replicate skateboarding properly, so I don't really consider it at this point. Um, I mean, it's unfortunate that maybe at some point it's going to fool people, that they think, oh, that person actually did this trick or whatever it is, or this trick exists. So, but, but I don't really see it benefiting or degrading skating.

I see you have something over here. It's the Olympic flame. I don't know if that's what it's called, but Yeah, the Olympic torch. The Olympic torch. And I read that it's when the Olympics brought on skateboarding. What was that moment for you like?

It was cool. I mean, I was helping the process along as much as I could through the years, through the early days too, of what are all the hoops you have to jump through? What are the connections you have to make? And then I went to Lausanne, I pitched skateboarding as a discipline. Um, and then when I saw that it was going to be actually included in the Tokyo Games, I backed off of, of my involvement because I didn't want anyone to think that I was, that I was manipulating it, that I was somehow, um, making the rules. You know what I mean? I just like, I didn't want to be responsible for the decisions they were making like that because I, I, I I also didn't have the bandwidth to help in the minutia like that. Um, so it was more like, okay, it's in the Olympics. As far as I'm concerned, my work is done. And, um, I mean, it should have been there all along. Like, you know, that's my attitude is they needed our cool factor more than we needed their validation.

I know, like, they have that—

Breakdancing made it.

That's true.

Yeah, but I, I know the weirdest one is, you know, I understand what happened with breakdancing when the viral stuff. But, but, you know, I, I grew up in the '80s. I grew up in street culture with skateboarding. Breakdancing was happening. It was cool, you know, headspins. Like, it was at the Reagan inauguration. Like, it was, it was sick. So I was kind of excited that it was going to be there.

It just—

then something else happened and it got weird.

So the worst one is those, you know, the ice thing where they like— it's like the curling.

Yeah.

What is that? Well, that's the thing.

What is curling compared to skating? I didn't want to use that as an example a long, long time ago where I was like, curling couldn't have that much audience or couldn't have a bigger audience than skateboarding would have. You know what I mean? But I don't— I'm not there to throw other sports under the bus. I'm just saying, if you're going to have all this stuff, you should have skateboarding. It has a way bigger audience and way more excitement to watch on air. Um, and that was my pitch. It was just like, you put this on TV and people are going to see it and they're going to watch it and appreciate it. Um, and, uh, yeah, and so it finally happened. Um, now my— the last piece of that for me is getting verti— vertical skating as a discipline, because right now it's only, uh, street and park.

Mm-hmm.

And park is has vert elements, but it's not what you guys consider vertical halfpipe skating. Like, let's put it this way, no one's done a 900 in, in the park event in the Olympics because everything's too small.

But you got a good place for the Olympics right here.

Oh, I have offered my ramp up for LA 2028. Yeah, you don't even have to pay for— like, I will bring it there, we'll put it up. Um, but It cannot— I know the rules deeply enough that it cannot be a discipline in LA 28, but it could be in Grizzly.

I feel like there's a resurgence in skating, but it's almost alongside music. Like you're saying, music, culture, skating, even hip-hop now. Like Lil Wayne was always talking about skating. Like there's an interesting resurgence, I feel like, where it's shifting among different groups of people and that are picking it up. Are you seeing this? And I imagine, are you, are you seeing like different people that are coming to you and more attracted to the Tony Hawk brand?

Um, well, I'd say I, I have seen that. I'm more, you know, I'm more closer to the center of the— of skating, obviously. And I've seen it attached to street culture, to hip-hop for a long time. Only in recent years has it, has it been so connected that you actually see these rap artists skate for real.

Yeah.

And Lil Wayne has always been a great advocate for it. But there are plenty of other artists. I mean, Tyler, the Creator, and I just think Vic Mensa, they, they actually are good at skating. And it grew— they grew up with, with those that as a touchpoint. So I think that's what you're seeing now is all of that kind of emerging into adulthood, um, and skating goes right along with it. Yeah, I mean, the, um, or, or, you know, on the other side of that, I've heard plenty of people say like, I didn't even know about skating until I played your game, and I lived where, you know, I lived in inner city, or I lived here where there was no access to skating, and then we started doing it. And that's the— I mean, to me, that's the biggest compliment I could ever receive.

Tony, finish this sentence: a blank and a blank can change your entire life.

Let's see. I mean, for me, it's as easy as a skateboard and a dream change your life. I'd say the more realistic version of that is a skateboard and a steel mindset. Can change your life, but both in different ways.

What's a steel mindset?

You don't give up through pain and arduous attempts.

What's the biggest sacrifice of a steel mindset?

I mean, besides fractured relationships is your body. I don't care about getting hurt. It's different now because obviously there's, there's more— I'm old, so, you know, more frail. But, uh, in terms of when I was skating, when I was trying to learn tricks, invent tricks, whatever, getting hurt was just a hurdle. It was not something that was going to stop me. And I didn't, you know, I didn't, I didn't like— I didn't have a death wish. I wasn't trying to, you know, I didn't— it wasn't like I was chasing pain. But I didn't mind enduring pain if it meant that I was going to get to this goal of learning something new.

We've talked to athletes. I think it's a very common thing that athletes will say. They're very hyperfocused, being the best, being number one at the expense of relationships, at the expense of their body. And then many times when they retire, it's almost scary for them because they don't even know their identity was in it.

Sure. And I, well, I think I've learned to transition my focus and my energies and my obsession into healthier outlets. Still skating. I mean, I was on the ramp less than an hour ago trying to do some new thing, but it was something that wasn't as life-threatening as it once was. But yeah, I agree. And But also at the same time, there's a— and this is, this is kind of specific to skating, but, but when I come away from the ramp and I'm bleeding, or if, you know, something's swollen, I'm kind of like, still doing it. Like, it's a thing of pride.

It's a good addiction.

I mean, I don't know if that's a great addiction. I'm just telling you, like, that The deep-down feeling is like, I'm still out there.

Tony, how do you want to be remembered?

I think selfishly, as an innovative skater, because that was the focus of what I was doing for so many years. But I hope someone that made skateboarding accessible to a new audience.

Tony Hawk, this is amazing. Legend.

I appreciate it. Thank you.

I hope legends are never forgotten because I feel like as time goes on, I think right now everyone's so focused on what they see on social media is what they remember, what they think about. And I have this fear that legends and as people continue to age, people are just focused on who's now popular on social media. I don't want the people that have been really doing it for a long time to be forgotten versus the people that you're just seeing on your feed.

Sure, but at the same time, we stand on the shoulders of giants. Like, there's evolution in every activity and every interest, um, and the same goes for skateboarding. Like, you know, you're focusing on 900. There's a kid that did 300 900s in a row. There's— sorry, there's a kid that did 3 900s in a row recently. Now they're doing fakie to fakie 900s. I mean, we're probably going to see one no-handed soon. That's the evolution of what we do. And in the context of the pioneers, sure, they shouldn't be forgotten. But at the same time, their legacy lives on through what is happening now. And you can either acknowledge that or not. But I'm just excited that I get to witness what's happening now because it's incredible. Like, It's the best time for skateboarding right now. You can get into it. You can have support. Parents encourage it. There are parks everywhere. You can be in the Olympics.

I might pick it up. There's a chance for me?

For sure. I mean, you already know how to— you already know how to be in motion.

I'm afraid to step on it. So I think I got to get over that fear.

Yeah, get over the fear.

Rice Krispie knees. Rice Krispie knees, you know, it's very scared. But Tony, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been great.

Thank you.