Transcript of Georges St-Pierre Reveals His Advice for Conor McGregor’s UFC Return and Talks the GSP Podcast

Conor McGregor finally going to return to the octagon. He's 5 years removed. What advice would you give him?

What I think he needs to do is What's up, guys?

Mystic Zack here. Welcome back to Double Cover. Today I'm joined by one of the greatest mixed martial artists to ever live, the one and only Georges St-Pierre, aka GSP. How are you doing, my man?

Doing fantastic, thank you.

So you just launched your own podcast, the GSP Podcast. What inspired you to start that and get into the media game more?

Well, a lot of things. Um, one thing that I found interesting when you have a podcast, it's like going back to school. But you choose the topics and the guests that you want to learn from. So what I really enjoy is to meet different experts in different fields, different topics that I'm passionate about, and to talk about it, you know, and to learn from them.

What are some of the podcasts out there that inspired you to start your journey?

Well, a friend of mine, Joe Rogan, I really admire what he does because he he touched on topics and subjects that, especially in the beginning when he started his podcast, no one wanted to talk about it because the risk of being discredited. And, you know, it's kind of inspired me in a way that I, you know, I think you— there's no shame on being curious about something, you know what I mean? And the more you are asking questions, it doesn't make you You're not supposed to make you look dumb, you know. It's— there's no— if you ask a question, it's because you want to know, you want to learn about something. And I think that's— it's a— it's, it's honorable, you know, to do— to ask questions that a lot of people are afraid to ask.

To segue into more, uh, mixed martial arts, but your day-to-day, you're still in great shape.

Yeah.

What is your training schedule like 9 years out of retirement? Are you still constantly in the gym? Are you still training mixed martial arts? What are you doing day to day?

I'm not training to be world champion anymore. I'm training more for longevity, but also because for me it's a therapy and I really enjoy martial art. I still go in the gym, roll, spar, wrestle with the guys, and I plan on doing it as long as my body allows me to do so. But yeah, I consider myself a martial artist. And a martial artist, I believe, he trains because it's part of his life. I don't only train because I have a competition coming up. I don't have any competition coming up, but I love it because for me, it helps me be a better person. We all have in our heads, and it allows me to canalize my negative energy.

That's exactly what a lot of fighters say is that, but a lot of them struggle with their identity post-retirement when they don't have that fight to train for and those start to take over. I did.

I did too. Even though I even often publicly say that I really never really liked to fight. But, you know, I prepared my retirement. But the thing is, when you fight, it's such a high, especially when you win. There's nothing really to compare to it. When you don't have that feeling anymore, you feel empty. But in order to not derail, you need to find yourself other goals, other, you know, other things that you want to do. And that's what I did. I'm more busy now than I used to be when I was competing because I'm more of a I would say an entrepreneur now. I have different businesses that I'm involved with and that keeps me busy and I still have goals and my goals are, you know, I want to be somewhere better, you know, in the future than I am now, you know? And I think it's important to stay hungry because if you're satisfied and you sit, I think that's when you might lose it, you know what I mean? And, and I think it's important to always strive and always look for better things. It's important.

Absolutely. There's another guy who's got— we've seen his ups and downs, but he's finally going to return to the octagon, Conor McGregor, July 11th. He's one of the greatest we've ever seen, of course, in the cage, two-time world champion, but out of the cage, revolutionized the sport when —when you talk about the most revolutionary fighters, he's there. I mean, he pushed the sports to bounds that we haven't seen before. What's the most important thing for him heading into this fight? He's 5 years removed from the Octagon. He had a devastating— what advice would you give him?

Well, an advice I would give him is— well, I've— not that I've done exactly the same, but I— when I came back, it was more than 4 years. So what I think he needs to do is to get out of his comfort zone, to not be the boss of his training camp. Let your trainer be the boss and tell you what to do. Choose someone that you trust. He has an excellent coach, Kavanagh, in Ireland. Excellent coach. The guy is a genius. So let him let him dictate what's the training camp, to choose your partner, to what to do. Because when you're in a fight, you don't decide what's going to happen. You just have to react accordingly to whatever the problem is. And so you're trying while you're preparing for a fight to recreate that environment, to put yourself outside your comfort zone. And I think it's very important because when you get money and you reach a certain status, you're sort of a boss, but you don't want to be a boss while you're training for a fight. You want to be like anybody else, like another number. And that's what he needs.

And it's very hard to do because, you know, I'm sure he's very wealthy now and everything. Yeah, has to be. So he has to go back into that mental phase that he once were. He was very hungry, he wanted to climb, and he was ready to do anything that he, that needed to be done to reach his goal. But once you have everything you want, it's very hard, you know? So he needs to put himself, willingly put himself back there, and it takes a lot of sacrifice.

Marvin Hagler said it's tough to wake up and run in the morning when you wake up in silk pajamas. It's true, 100%.

When I was in my prime, in training camp, I have my regular training partner that I have that I train every day in a gym, but I purposely fly other guys with my coach. We planned it, who they want me to bring in. And the job of those guys is to give me hell because they're not my friend. I mean, I'm nice to them And I really appreciate they help me, but I'm flying some different guys with different styles that are similar to my future opponent. So they bring me the similar kind of problems. It's impossible to find someone who's exactly the same way of your opponent because, you know, especially at that level, there's, you know, there's everyone is pretty unique, but you can find guys that have that will bring you similar problem that you will probably face. And that's their job. And Feras used to tell them, say, if you, you know, if you fuck with him, we'll pay you. I'll stop the entire academy and praise you for hours. Like, you know what I mean? And he willingly did that on purpose because he didn't want, like, some of the guys that we brought sometimes, they were sort of starstruck.

Yeah. But they were young, very hungry guys. You know, they want to, You know, take your place. Yeah, of course. It was good. You know, he did it purposely. But that's what I'm talking about when you need to go back in that, you know, and it's hard to do once you're healthy, you're wealthy, you know.

Were you more nervous going to those sparring sessions with the brand new guys where you don't know exactly what they're going to give you? More switched on, right? Yeah, absolutely.

And that's one of the ways that you get outside of your comfort zone because when you spar with a guy that you know and you train with every day, you kind of know what you're going to— what you're going to— what you're going to get. You know what I mean? Even though if he's better than you in certain areas, great. Yeah, but you know. Yeah.

When you go with a guy that you don't know, when you spar with someone for lots of rounds, say for 100 rounds, it's almost like a dance and you guys are both going back and forth. I'll tell you, I box and I sparred Corey Spinks, world champion 5 times. I couldn't touch him clean. Don't get me wrong. We sparred so much, I got so comfortable. I had no butterflies. It was just like routine. But if I go to a random gym in a weird place and there's a guy who doesn't even look that good, but I don't know him and he's twitchy, I'm way more switched on and nervous. I'm thinking, what if— Yeah, you know, totally different.

Yeah, 100%. And I think that's one of the problem with a lot of guys. They— it costs money because, you know, especially when you get more successful and when you have the means to do it, You need to spend money to make money, and you have to see it like an investment. You will invest on yourself. And I was never afraid of doing it. A lot of guys, sometimes I tell them what I just like, hey, bring new sparring partner. Yeah, but it costs money, the plane ticket, the hotel. And I'm like, yeah, but it's worth it. It is worth it. And I used to do that all the time. It's something that I I don't see much from the new generation that are training him, and I think it's, it's, it's important. What's up, guys?

It's Mystic Zack, aka your host of Double Coverage, aka the biggest sports fan in the world. I personally endorse Fathead. Fathead is the absolute best place to get any sort of sports merchandise. I've been using their products all my life. Growing up, I had a Dallas Cowboys-themed bedroom. I had a Dez Bryant Fathead hanging above my bedroom wall. And now exclusively on Fathead. They have Knicks championship gear. They just pulled off the impossible, won one of the biggest championships in major sports by winning their first championship in 53 years. The city of New York's going crazy. Knicks fans are going crazy. Go to fathead.com using the link in our bio, buy some Knicks merch, celebrate that championship win, or support any of your favorite teams in any of the major sports across the NFL, MLB, NHL, wherever. One of the greatest things about your career, and I know you don't like talk about yourself that much, but Your only two losses you suffered, you got it back, you know, you won the rematches. What was the mindset of you going into the Matt Serra and Matt Hughes rematches versus other fights? And what's important for Max Holloway heading into this rematch?

Because McGregor beat him before.

So the two losses that I have in my career are against Matt. Yeah, Matt Hughes and Matt Serra.

If you want to beat GSP, you gotta be named Matt.

You have to be named Matt. It's like my kryptonite. I don't know why.

It's your kryptonite.

So The first fight that I have lost against Matt Hughes, at the time I was very hungry but very young. And Matt Hughes was a legend. He was like one of my idols. And I was going into that not to win. I was going to not lose. And even in the stare down, I remember I couldn't even look at him in the eyes. I was looking up the ceiling. I was like, man, what the hell I'm doing here? So that fight, started and I didn't realize until I watched the video after, I was doing pretty well until I got caught with a— and when I watched the replay of the video, I was like, man, I got all the skills to beat that guy. And I was doing very well. But while I was in the— I didn't realize. I thought he was like, just like— yeah, it's when I watched the video, I said, I told myself, I said, man, if I get a rematch, I'll beat him because now I know I can beat him. And when I fought him the second time and I beat him, it's not that much because I was on skill or technically better than I was the first time.

I was maybe a little bit, but just because mentally I was in a different place. I had confidence. Then I became world champion. I was very young. Everybody told me at the time how good I was and everything. My first title defense was against another Matt, Matt Serra. And Matt Serra was a veteran. He had a career, a very successful career, but he had certain ups and downs and he was like a Rocky story. He made it like very close. He beat Chris Lytle in a very close decision to make it for— a title fight against me. And I remember the odds. I think it's probably still to this day the biggest upset in UFC history, or, or one of the biggest upset.

How incredible was that performance from Justin? 6-to-1 underdog goes in. He's fought twice previously for the title, came up short both times. He's 37 years old, he's fighting at the— the most pressure that'll ever be on him against a guy that no one thought could be beaten. And goes in, takes it to him from the first round.

Yeah, he was amazing. Man, Justin is a freaking warrior. It's unbelievable. I'm gonna say something that most people will probably not agree with me, but I would love to see him retire. I'm a fan of Justin. I love the guy. Man, but I hope if he continues though, he continue and he's, you know, he retire when he's at his best, you know, like don't let the sport retire you. But what an amazing ending of a career would it be. I know in the MMA culture they want you to pass the torch, but leave with the torch, man. When you feel that you're gonna make a lot of money, you're gonna leave a lot of money on the table, but the The opportunity that will come to you once you retire on top are huge. And nothing prevent you maybe in a few years or maybe a few months, if you change your mind, you make a comeback. But I hope he stay healthy because I, you know, when you talk to him, he's very well, he's a well, very well-spoken person, you know, but you get, he been involved in a lot of wars. It's crazy.

I just hope he stay healthy and I'm a huge fan. Yeah. Yeah. I would love to see him fight again, but as a human being, I would love to see him retire on top like this. Like, what a great ending and a blueprint of a, of a career that would be for the younger generation that look up to him.

So inspiring. Not about how many times you get knocked down, but how many times you get back up.

And he's done it over and over and over. He's the embodiment of it. Yeah.

He became a friend of mine. I got to train with him back in March. We sparred. Did pretty good. And, uh, but I had a great time and saw his hard work and effort and very normal, the most modest guy. I mean, you go to his house, you see the way he lives, and you see kind of his mindset and lifestyle. It's so mundane, you wouldn't expect him to be the most— you know. So, um, huge fan of him. And I agree with you, I think unless Conor McGregor wins, I would get out. Yeah, I mean, but the McGregor fight, it might be too much that's generational money, you know, your grandkids.

And I haven't thought of that. That's a good point. It's true. Him and Conor would be an incredible fight. And, but however, I— correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they're in the same weight class. I think Conor is fighting 170, right? So, but if it's a fight that he wants, I think that would be the fight if he wants to finish up. He's got to have proof. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's big money. Yeah.

But I think that would be probably the second biggest fight in the sport's history behind McGregor, could be.

Yeah, probably, but I'm not sure if, let's say, depending on what's gonna happen next, if let's say Conor wins in a crazy fashion, his aura will automatically come back. Yeah. And then Justin that just, you know, won at the White House, you know, incredible underdog, now that would be like That would be the fight to make, to make, and maybe at 155 or in a catchweight, whatever. That would be the fight, right? Yeah, I agree now with that. If Conor wins, especially if he wins in a good fashion, if I'm Justin, that's the fight. I mean, that's what he should do, and he's going to be there. Yeah, because what more can you get? Like, he beat Ilya Topuria in Now his next fight, if it's not Conor, that got back to his aura, like, that's the only thing that could be bigger. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm just— we're just, uh, yeah, we're just speculating.

Yeah, speculating. But I hope— I love Max. And, and actually, I want to touch on this. What's important for Max? Because they fought previously, it was a long time ago. Max was so young, he wanted to do so many things after. But McGregor went on through a lot of things after as well. What's important for Max heading into this rematch? Do you— how does he get the last fight out of his mind? It's probably not that hard for him because he's accomplished so much, but what's key for him?

I think from Max's perspective, I mean, I'm a so-called expert, but I got it wrong all the time, you know, in my prediction. But I— the way I analyze this fight from, from what I've seen from both guys, if I'm From Max Holloway's perspective, I think that he needs to put a lot of pressure, to focus on volume. Conor is a striker. You don't want to go first with Conor. So a lot of fake, make him throw his big left, you know, his main weapon. Make it throw and miss, you know, fake it and make it throw and go third on him. And put a lot of pressure and focus on putting that pressure in a way that you want to, you know, bring him in the deep waters. I think that's Max Holloway's blueprint to beat Conor. Conor, on his side, is to, you know, to control the distance, you know, like to get enough space, you know, where he's, you know, he likes to have a wide stance, you know, but is to, you know, to make Max commit, step into the, to put him where he wants him to be and use that.

Yeah, and he's such a fast starter. He is.

That's the problem. When the, if the fights, the way I see it, if the fights, if the fight is a fight high pace that finish early on, it favors, according to us, I think Conor. But if it goes in the deep waters, if it's a 5-round war, I think it favors, uh, Max.

What Conor is thinking, I'm sure, is I saw Topuria, he's been in so many fights, more than Conor. I mean, no one's had more time in the octagon than him. It's one weight class up, he's gonna have his power. That's got to be Conor's game plan, in my opinion.

Yeah, but I don't think he's gonna try to grapple him like Oliveira did, or I think he's gonna They're both very big for their weight classes that they fought previously, and now they're fighting at 170. People don't know that, but Max Holloway is a big, big guy too. So I don't know which one, who's the biggest naturally, but I know Max Holloway is very big, and Conor obviously is big because he made the movie Roadhouse. We saw Conor's got this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't know who it will favor, the fact that they fight at 170, but they're both Big guys.

Yeah, they'll both be fully hydrated, right? So, you know, no dehydration, which makes a big difference. Yeah, yeah, it would be.

Uh, I'm gonna watch that fight. I'm really looking forward to it. Are you going to it? I'm not sure yet. Um, probably— I'm not sure yet. I depend on my upcoming schedule.

Yeah, yeah, but it's an exciting one. How would you rank the UFC in the history of the UFC's events?

It's one of the best ever. I mean, it's very unique. I don't think we'll ever see that happen again. And also all the fights were like— all of them. I think so, right?

Yeah. Every single one. First time. And it was— it was unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Another fight that happened. Your trainer's brother fought Sean O'Malley. Yeah. Tough fight. Yeah. Sean looked great and obviously he had You know, Zahabi's got to go back to the lab. For Zahabi going back to his training camp, and he's obviously got a great team around him, what's important for him to keep going and not let this affect him in the future?

Well, he needs to learn from what went wrong and, you know, and not repeat the same mistake again. I don't know what's going to be his next fight. I think that he was asked to headline a card in Canada, I think for October. I'm not sure what's going to be his decision. You know, he needs some time off, you know, for sure. You know, it's a lot of sparring, a lot of preparation. Plus, he got to, you know, he got to probably be in that fight. Um, but, uh, yeah, you need to take some time off.

People say after a fight like that where it's not too close from, you know, bell to bell, oh, a rematch, we never need to see it, it can never happen, you don't have a chance. But then we see Petr Yan versus Merab. Merab dominated every second of that first fight. I mean, it was like 50-43. Everyone said, oh my God, this was such a blowout, I never want to see it again. And they fight a few years later. Everyone counts Jan out and he beats him.

Yeah, that's the beauty of this sport. Yeah, yeah. It's the ability to adapt, how good you are to adapt to a certain problem. You know, there's fighters that are— I'm one of them, by the way, that I've always been very good in rematches because I'm lucky. I have a great team. I'm very good. At analyzing and transforming myself into the perfect nemesis of my opponent. And this has to do with the ability to adapt. When you fight a guy for the first time, sometimes you expect certain things, but you find out quickly, always, that he's never as good as you thought and he's never as bad as you wish. He's always different. Yeah. But the second time you fight him, you know, he might have changed since the previous time, but you have a better idea of what you're going up against.

Absolutely. And I think your biggest advantage was the fact that you were a Swiss Army knife where you had every discipline and you had mastered martial arts to a certain degree. There's only a few guys, in my opinion, who have done that. You, Mighty Mouse, Jon Jones. There's a few guys who can kind of take it anywhere. How do you as a 19-year-old get into wrestling and become that high level of a— we don't see that in the wrestling room. It's always guys who start at a very young age. They're bred to wrestle when they're very young, especially usually in an American program. But now we got everyone in Chechnya and Russia and all that too. But how do you as an adult, as a karate practitioner, take up wrestling and have the mentality to get that good and then use that throughout your career?

Yeah, I mean, I was always very good in sports, very good to adapt. I started karate when I was 9 years old as a self-defense. It quickly turned into a passion, and later on, that's how I earned a living. But when I was 9 to up to maybe 16, I was doing karate maybe twice a week only, an hour class twice a week. But I was playing other sports, hockey, track, basketball. I was always doing sports. And there's a lot of studies. It might seem surprising to a lot of people. There's a lot of study that came out recently because a lot of people wonder, hey, which discipline should I put my kid, my kids in to if I want to make him a great athlete? And I think the, what it show, what the data show is that it's better at a young age to do different things and to specialize later on in your life. So while a lot of people see that as a surprise, oh, you started so late, how come you become so good? I think it's the most common theme among champions. Cyril Gane, who's the heavyweight champion, started martial art late.

Yeah, he was a basketball— he was playing basketball, soccer. I think it's something very common. Most people think that most champions start their sport very young. Maybe they get initiated young in their sport, but they didn't start specialize young. There's of course a few exceptions like Tiger Woods, you know, there's guys that are exception, but most of champions, I think the data supported, they start to specialize very late in their life. And there's a reason why it happened. I think it's because when you start very young, we all have a window. You know, if you do the same movement pattern over and over again, at one point doing sport is healthy, but doing sport to the elite level is not. So your body breaks down faster. So you have a certain window in which you want to be at when you're— and you want to keep that window while you're in your prime age, which is probably in your 20s or early 30s. So when you specialize in— I mean, you could start specialize late in your teenage years, but when you get into the elite level in your 20s and 30s, that's when is your best bet.

To, to be, to, to earn a living out of it.

Yeah. There's a very famous story in American football. There's a quarterback named Todd Marinovich and his dad came out. He was a football player as well. He said, I have the best plan for my son. He was 5 years old. His entire life's gonna be dedicated to football. He had a special diet, routine, schedule. He was never allowed to do anything. Couldn't party, couldn't have a girlfriend, nothing. He had to train, train, train, train, train. And by the time he got to college and he got away from his father, he was the best quarterback in the country. Got addicted to drugs, partying, was doing everything because of how much it was forced on him. And then it was an NFL pick. And I mean, he's recovered now. He's a painter. He's all these great things. But he flamed out because of all the drug problems that came with that. And it was just because he was pushed on him so much from a young age. What I meant more so with you is just I see the grapplers that can pick up the striking like Justin Gaethje, college wrestler, Rashad Evans, college wrestler. It's not usually the karate guys who get so good at grappling.

It seems harder to pick up wrestling specifically at a later age. Usually they're good enough to defend it, but they don't use it as a weapon.

I was very lucky. I, at the Montreal Wrestling Club, I had a lot of mentors that took me underneath their wings. And but one thing I have to explain is that takedown in MMA is different than takedown in wrestling. In wrestling, it's a lot of hand— has to do with hand fighting. Which is very specialized in wrestling. In MMA, you can use chain wrestling like Khabib, like you drag your opponent to defense and then you chain wrestle your way to a takedown. Or you can do mostly like what I did. I use a lot of proactive and reactive takedown from the center of the octagon, from a distance, because I'm very explosive. So that was my my God gift, I would say. So I was using those proactives. So which proactive is when I initiate the takedown, I create a distraction and then I go, I shoot to the legs. You know, proactive is when I bait my opponent to come strike me and in the timing I go for it. So that was more my thing and Because I was coming from a karate background— karate is a striking sport mostly— I was able to identify the cues and to know what is coming so I could time the takedown perfectly.

So in a way, it's my karate that helped me set up my takedown. My wrestling helped me finish that takedown. If you know, if you—

yeah, it's just so like Wonderboy Thompson, he's so incredible at karate and he got such good defensive wrestling that the guys couldn't take him down. He could use his karate, but you don't see him taking guys down. You know, it's just totally different. Usually that's— and then you see wrestlers who never want to wrestle. They only want to strike like Dan Henderson, Justin Gaethje. These guys are wild. They don't have any interest in wrestling. They just want to—

yeah, I think they I think the key, I mean, there's no perfect formula. There's the specialist and the generalist. There's like, I would call myself more a generalist. I'm not the best striker. I'm very good at striking, but I'm not the best. I'm very good in grappling, but I'm not the best. But I'm very good everywhere. And there's also the specialists that are the best at one particular thing. But they lack a little bit in others. But because they're able to keep the fight where they're strong, that's how they become successful. There's pros and cons in both style, but I always found that if you're a generalist, it gives you more option. Yeah, because you can transform yourself and become the perfect nemesis to your opponent. Which is not the case if you're a specialist. You don't have that option. You just have to make sure you keep the fight where you're strong, and that could limit your way of winning a fight if you face a problem that you can't solve.

Well, the sport's come so far. UFC won, everyone is a specialist only, and then Royce Gracie won as the jiu-jitsu practitioner. But now it seems like there's so such little specialists. Everyone's become a generalist. Look at Islam Makhachev. Yeah, I mean, how incredible are his skills?

Yeah, he's, he's, um, I would say he's, he's a, he's now a generalist. He's a specialist. We all know what his endgame is, but remember, uh, Volkanovski. So he's, he's in a way, he's a, he's a, he's a generalist too. So, so So that's the key, you know, like you want to become very good everywhere, you know, like Jon Jones used to be mostly a very good wrestler, used to throw people, and now he became one of the best strikers. So that's the goal, you know, as you progress, you want to make sure that your weaknesses become strength. He would strike with his ass.

People don't talk about, what are you doing in the clinch, Jon Jones?

Oh yeah, and the hard thing for his opponent is that Jon Jones has a reach advantage, so most of them have in their game plan, I'm sure they were like, oh, I'm gonna close the distance on him, but Jon is like an amazing fighter in close range because he has those, he's as close as a perfect fighter as it as you can find, you know, is basically like the perfect physique, perfect athlete, incredible fighting IQ, is unbelievable.

He's so great. And I think that even in recent times, the people have grown up watching him like Ciryl Gane, where I think they find themselves like, I can't believe I'm fighting Jon Jones, and they're almost watching him instead of being in the fight. Yeah. Like he psychs guys out before the fight starts. Yeah.

I mean, it's part of the mind game. Yeah. And I mean, he's just— Jon, I found that looking at Jon Jones' fight, he always been better when there's more at stake. When he fought guys that they're, you know, he's supposed to win, you know, easily. I don't know if it's a mental thing or a preparation issue, but I always found that the more he has to lose, like Daniel Cormier was a question of honor for him. Like, you know, like Cyril Gane was coming back from, you know, like heavyweight for the first time. The more, the bigger the fight is, the more stressful it is, the better he performs. The fight that he, you know, like he's highly favorite, you know, like I found that You know, maybe that's why he's so good. You know, to be a champion in the sport is to be good when it counts, to be good when it matters. A lot of guys are good in the gym, but to be champion is you need to be good when it matters the most. And yeah, Jon Jones is the embodiment of that. Big-time performers.

And it's in every sport, you know, even American football. We cover it all, but like they coast in the regular season. And then like Eli Manning, I don't know if you're familiar with American football, but This guy, he was average in the regular season, very average, threw a lot of interceptions, but twice in the playoffs he pulls off the most miraculous runs in the history of the sport. He has the most big-time throws completed ever. It's inexplicable. Yeah, the, the, the flip that switches for him when the games are tough.

Yeah, he rises to the occasion.

Yeah, 100%. You know, it's like a mental thing that you almost can't comprehend as a normal person, as a civilian.

Yeah, 100%. And then I think a lot of it has to do with the preparation. There's different kinds of preparation. There's the physical preparation that you put yourself through, the hard work that you do in the gym, like that's physically, are you in shape? Are you injury-free? You know what I mean? And technically, you know your stuff, your knowledge, tactically, your preparation, everything is physical. But there's also the mental preparation. That has to do with visualization, imagery, stuff that you need to do. I believe, I believe strongly in that. A lot of people, sometimes they roll their eyes because it's a little bit like esoteric, but I think it helps a lot and it's something that can make a big difference between a guy that's going to crumble under the pressure, between a guy that's going to make it. Because the guy that, that gonna crumble is because he didn't work on it. The guy that, that rise to the occasion, maybe he thought of it, he felt it before, he visualized it. So when it happened, it feels to him like it's not the first time that it happened. So he has confidence in himself.

Yeah, a good friend of mine, I was with him for his training camps early on, Jake Paul. He's fighting these huge fights, so much pressure on his shoulders. Half the training camp is working on his mental. He's, I'm going to this guy. He's walking around, he's visualized doing his breathwork, and he believed it so much to the point where he got to the fight and he was just living what he had already seen in his head a million times. That's what no one understood that was outside. They're thinking, this kid has to be so scared. He comes from YouTube and now he's fighting the greatest UFC fighters of all time. But he just had already won in his head. So it was like nothing for him to go out there. And that was his biggest advantage.

A lot of people, they ask me, how come something that is in your head can become real? Like, it doesn't make sense. The best way I can explain it is think about anything, like a room, this room. Someone had to create it first in their head. Maybe it's multiple people that created, and when it merges all together, that idea of this room, the carpet, the color of the walls, this became unified and they were able to— it was able to be materialized. That's how you create something from scratch. It first started as an idea, something that does not exist materialistically, but it exists in your mind. I think it's the same thing In sport performance, you need to have the idea first, your goal, your dream to make it, to materialize. In order to materialize in the real world, you need to make it happen up here and then it materializes in the real world.

Barriers get broken all the time. If someone would have told you at the beginning of your career someone would become a world champion in two different weight classes at the same time, you can't do that. They won't even let you. And then McGregor does it. And then all of a sudden you get a rush of double champions. Because they saw that it can be achieved and everyone sees that. They said no one could run a 4-minute mile. Yeah, one guy beats it, 19 more the next day, right? So that's just how it goes. Once barriers get broken, then people see it, they can visualize it right in front of them, then you can achieve it.

Yeah, exactly. That's the best way I, I can explain it. It all starts from an idea or combine ideas from different individuals and then you can materialize it. I think that's something that is very powerful, that most champions, they start believing and acting like champions before they became champions. Look at Usain Bolt, look at Jordan, look at all the great champions in sports. And it's something that I've learned from them and I try to replicate it. In my career. I try to keep—

people ask me about things years from now. I go, I can't. I'm not going to have the time. You know, I'm going to be— I can't take that risk. I'm going to be too big and whatever in my space. And they go, you're not that big. I go, I'm going to be the biggest. So I'm preparing for that. There's no other reality I live in. I'm going to be at the top. There's no other way you can put it to me. I'm not going to be there. What if this doesn't happen? Then I'll get over it and I'll break that barrier and I'll keep going.

I think it's Michelangelo who says the danger in life— I might screw it up, but basically he says the danger in life is not to set your goal too high and never be able to reach it, it's to set it too low and reaching it. Because once you've done that, then after that you have nothing else that you want to improve. So I think there's nothing wrong to set your goals very high.

What are your thoughts on the current state of combat sports? Obviously the UFC, the biggest player. Still have boxing, Zuffa boxing, Karate Combat, RAF. We're almost— could be hitting a golden era. Netflix MMA. What are your thoughts on everything? What are— what have been some of your favorites, maybe outside of the UFC?

Oh, I, I love, uh, that the fact that there's other organization rising. Competing with UFC. It's very important, especially for the athletes, because the UFC has the monopoly. The monopoly. Monopoly. The UFC has the monopoly. So it's important for the performer, for the fighters, that they have other options. The industry of mixed martial arts is very, very unique. You know, like if you play hockey, you have different teams. That you can go, you know, American football, same thing, soccer, you know. But in UFC, UFC is the most prestigious organization in mixed martial arts and they have a power, you know, and it's not good for the fighters that if they don't have other options, it's always better for them from their perspective, for the fighters, that if things doesn't work well for the, in the UFC, they can go somewhere else. And it's important, you know, I will always support the fighters because I was a fighter. So from my perspective, I think it's a good thing. I'm a big fan of all those other organizations like, you know, like Raph. I love to watch it sometimes, you know, all the Jake Paul's promotion on Netflix.

And I love the show. It's entertainment.

Do you think they could be a legit competitor?

Absolutely. There's different forms of entertainment. Like, for example, if you see a certain celebrity fighting another celebrity, you're going to tune in because you want to know what's going to happen. It's entertainment, but it's not because you want to see who's the best fighter in the world, you know what I mean? Or the best boxer in the world. If I want to see who's the best boxer in the world, I'm going to watch Alexander Usyk. Of course, next fight against whoever it is to see, you know, who's the best, because I think he's the best. But it's all a form of entertainment, and I'm not against that model of entertainment. I think it's genius. I think, for example, like what Jake Paul has created is genius, even though, like, you know, we say, you know, you want to see who's the best in the world, like maybe one day he's gonna knock at the door and for a title fight. Man, he went against Anthony Joshua in every way. That is like a ballsy move. I think he, I think it would be interesting if he, you know, from in his weight class, if he can, you know, climb maybe the rank and go for a title fight.

I think it's doable. I think he can do it. I couldn't agree more.

Yeah, I call him a cruiserweight prospect. People are like, you're crazy.

He's a prospect. 100%. He trains behind that persona that he is, the YouTube, because I've went to, what is it, Puerto Rico. Oh, you did? Yes, yes. I've trained there many times with John Danaher in jiu-jitsu, but I've met him there. He has an incredible team. Like, he trained with the best, the best trainer, the best sparring partner. My friend Jean-Pascal. I was there for that. Yeah. He's willing to put himself, even though he's very wealthy, he's willing to put himself outside of his comfort zone in order to improve and to be the best. And he has the money and the resources to do it, and he's willingly doing it. That's why he's so good. A lot of haters, but I respect a lot of what he does. I think it's entertainment at his best, and I wish him the best of luck in this journey.

I've said it, if he continues on this journey, I think he's gonna become cruiserweight champion.

Yeah, the only danger for someone of his cuz he has access to pretty much everything he wants, is to fall into, you know, like freaking like the trap of life, you know, the MeToo, the this, that, like if he stay away from that and he focus on, you know, what needs to be done, I think he can do it.

Yeah, I first got acquainted with him, I was there for Logan's training camp and he was just starting getting out of fight, but he was working so hard and he didn't have a trainer. And he was sparring tough and he was just like, had the willingness to learn and improve without any help. And I said, you know, you have all the characteristics of a potential pro boxer. You should really take it serious. Then he had his first pro fight and I was there and his second, his third, his fourth, his fifth. And then as it was going, he could see it. You know, at first he told my friend, he was, I'm going to be the best YouTube boxer. He was, no, you're not. You're going to be the best professional boxer. Get out of that mode, start calling out the professionals, because you're going to get there. And that's what broke the mold and got him to where he's at today. And to see his journey through hard work and dedication— he's tough. Yeah, he's nails. Yeah, yeah, he has that toughness that you need. God-given. You wouldn't think someone from his background would have that, you know, in his stardom and whatever.

And he shouldn't, but he's got this chip on his shoulder from everyone doubting him and talking so much.

They first tried to laugh at him, then they tried to ignore him and all that. Nobody laughed now. He's there, you know, he's a force to— He beat Anderson Silva. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Tyron Woodley, you know, like, yeah, it's boxing. And but it's— he did it and he lost that fight. But it was, it was still a little bit competitive. It was competitive. You could see what Jake was thinking.

Like, if I land that, you know, You know, I can do the impossible. He called it David versus Goliath.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it could have happened, you know, but they, you know, it didn't go his way. But, uh, I respect that, that he, he did took the risk, you know. It takes a lot of courage, you know.

And this, I say Anderson Silva because he beat Chávez in boxing, and Silva looked up to Roy Jones Jr. for a long time. If he had gone into boxing rather than martial arts, I think he would have been a world champion. Yeah, because he has that acumen and the, and the skills and just the athleticism to do anything in, in martial arts, combat sports, anything. You spoke about this recently. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but you almost had a super fight with Anderson Silva, one weight class up. I saw you breaking down how it went. How do you think that fight would have gone if you had a crystal ball?

Well, it—

like, if it happened when we were in our prime, how were you visualizing it when that fight was being talked about in your guys's prime?

Well, from my perspective, if that fight would have happened, it would have been in a— because at the time I had a lot of competition in my weight class. He had a lot of competition in his weight class. And I knew that if I would have taken that fight, it would be outside of my line. It would have forced me to perhaps, you know, go outside and then I would need to go back to my weight class. So at the time, when it was asked, it was talked about once with the UFC. We gave them the request. We wanted to be compensated with a special contract for that fight outside of our existing contract. That was one thing. We wanted to be in a, how do you say, a weight class that is a catchweight. I think it was 180, and we wanted to have implementing— that was the 3 conditions. And once we gave our conditions, they never get back to us. So that's why it never materialized. But the way I was— if the fight would ever happen, of course, there's no secret Anderson Silva was like fighting like The Matrix, was a very good striker.

So my plan would have been to use a lot of feint and fake to with a lot of forward pressure to close the distance, to put him down and yeah, to use ground and pound. And you know, that would have been my—

like with Chael Sonnen, the first fight, a little bit.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, from my perspective, and I'm sure from his perspective, I'm sure he has a different game plan that he sees himself winning that fight. So, so that's the thing, we will never know.

They never go for the catchweights, the UFC. I don't know why I would love that. You know, you and Khabib was the other one. Yeah, that didn't get made.

I, I know, I know, uh, I know Anderson. Anderson fought in Pride at 170, um, but later in his career got very big, uh, and I don't know if he could have made 170, uh, when he was late, later in his career.

He'd gone up to 205.

I think James Irvin in like the first round at 205, Forrest Griffin Yeah, so for that reason, I think, yeah, and Stephen Bonnar as well. So he was very big. Knowing he was like, he had maybe something like 30, £40 over me, you know, because I was not a big weight cutter. I was like, I have a very large frame, but I'm not thick, you know, like I, I have very long reach, but I'm not someone who was like, in terms of thickness, you know? So people have a misconception that I lose a lot of weight. I never did. I walk around 185, £186, and I cut like 15 to £16 to make weight, which especially nowadays, fighters at 170, they're close to £200.

Look at Michael Morales.

They're big. They're big guys. This guy's like, I—

it was he 210?

Yeah, they're very big. There's guys in my era too that were very big, but at the time I was fighting in my prime, the weigh-in was the evening of the day before.

They need to implement like a similar system to ONE Championship. Exactly.

So, you know, one of the— so exactly, that was I think the best system, uh, to prevent um, hopefully will never happen, you know.

Yeah, and some of these guys— how Pereira made 185. Yeah, how McGregor used to make 145. I want to touch back on a name that you brought up earlier, Oleksandr Usyk. I call him the master of boxing. Yeah, um, I got to spend some time with him, and he's an incredible champion, undefeated. He just relinquished all his titles. He said, I have one last dance. Um, what do you think about him and his fighting and kind of how he is as a boxer?

Probably the best of all time, or one of the best of all time. It's just unbelievable. And he was not a heavyweight. I think he was light, like cruiserweight. He was cruiserweight and unbelievable, like the way he moves and everything is— if you want to learn about boxing, he's the perfect model. To, to mold yourself after, you know, it's just unbelievable. We need to get him on your podcast.

Would love to. Yeah, 100%. Usyk on Podcast GSP, let's make it happen.

I'm a huge fan of it, obviously.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Absolutely. To do what he did at cruiserweight against great fighters, Gassiev and Michael Hunter, then move up to heavyweight. And when he first moved up, there were so many skeptics. Yeah. And what's crazy is his manager, Egeis, said he was going to be the undisputed world World Heavyweight Champion, and everyone thought he was crazy. And actually, when he was negotiating certain contracts for Oleksandr, he would say he would put in a clause that dictates he gets a certain amount if he becomes undisputed heavyweight champ when he first moved up. And they thought, oh, he's crazy, it's not going to happen anyway. So they would put it in, and then they cashed in when he beat Tyson Fury. Good for him, you know.

Yeah, very happy. This is a very good and powerful underdog story, you It's good, it inspires people, it's amazing.

To do what he did against Joshua twice and Fury twice, I mean, the difference between him and Fury is like night and day. Oh yeah.

You know, he's just an incredible athlete. Like, he's another one that I just hope he's gonna— when time comes, I mean, he's in his prime now, you know, sky's the limit. But when time comes— He said one more fight. Oh yeah, one more.

Yeah, well, I wonder who will be— Maybe the Rico rematch. Did you get a chance to watch that fight?

Oh yeah. That one was, yeah, Rico, yeah, I think he did very well. He did excellent. I think he did very well. He surprised a lot of people. Like, I've watched the fight as a fan. I've not watched it, I didn't score it, but I think in a rematch, I don't know if it's, I don't wanna make any excuses, but I wonder if Jusic trained, like, prepared himself 100% for that fight. It could be also the fact that Rico has a weird style, you know, because he's coming from a kickboxing background, you know? That would be very interesting to see a rematch. I think it'd be great.

Yeah. And that'd be a great final send-off.

100%. 100%. And if he wins that, you know, he's like, go back, go to the— get out under the sunset, you know.

Straight to the Hall of Fame. Yes. And Terence Crawford just retired undefeated as well. Straight to the Hall of Fame.

Terence Crawford is another one I think is best pound for pound. Like, he is unbelievable. These are—

those are the two best of this generation. 100%. 100%. And the two of them are the two guys who I think can stand toe-to-toe with any generation. You know, Crawford can go against Sugar Ray Leonard and Tommy Hearns, all these guys. And Usyk can go against— I don't want to— but Ali and Tyson, all these guys, you can see them fighting.

Yeah, you know, well, that— there's a thing in, in combat sport, we always compare that guy versus that guy. For example, who would have won between Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, and then we put Usyk in the mix. Same thing in MMA. It's only speculative because we have no way of knowing for sure. But if you look at other sports, for an example, like 100 meters, we know that Usain Bolt, the race that he ran and beat the world record was the fastest race ever. We know that other sport where we can measure the performance, the performance tend to be better as time goes by. But in combat sport, we have this thing that for some reason, sometimes we stay— we always say, oh, this guy would kick everyone else, which I think is wrong. And it's not appealing to me to say that because now I'm retired. And yeah, you know, a lot of guys, their pride, they want to be remembered. But I lean towards the theory that— I mean, it's a theory, but it's measurable in other sport, but not measurable in combat sport. But I think as time goes by, fighters get better.

I mean, performance get better. I don't think that the person is better. I think their performance get better because they have access to more knowledge and technology. When I wanted to learn jiu-jitsu and I was 19 years old, 18 years old, I needed to drive to New York, 8-hour drive from Montreal, get physically in a class and learn it from the Renzo Gracies. Now I can grab my phone and learn it in 2 seconds. So the access of knowledge and technology that I have now is so much better than I had at the time. That's why I think fighters would be better if you would have put them against an old timer. Most of the time, not always, but most of the time there's exception. Not because they're better athletes, because they are like Einstein said, if I've seen further, it's because I'm standing on shoulders of giants. The same thing for me when I was in my prime. I've learned from my predecessor, you know, Royce Gracie, Mark Coleman, Mark Kerr, those guys that were beasts. And I've learned from them. And now the new generation can learn from me. That's why I think they're better than what I was.

There's a good chance like Islam Makhachev beats anyone ever right now. Probably. Yeah, probably.

I would think so. You know, logically, it's— I would say so.

His skill level is almost like unfathomable in each discipline. It like almost shouldn't be human, but it's almost like he's a machine trained to fight. His boxing, his kicking, his grappling, his submissions.

And as good as he is, maybe in two decades there will be a young guy— and not maybe, there will be another guy that will be better than any one of them that we have today. And that's how it goes.

And I'm going to tell my son that Islam would kick his ass. But it's every sport. It's not even just basketball. Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, my grandpa, Bill Russell, the greatest player ever. Yeah, Grandpa, he couldn't shoot threes. He couldn't do anything. He couldn't score that much. He's the greatest ever.

Not even— it's not nostalgia. Nostalgia. And it's appealing for guys like me that people think that. And it's very flattering that I'm very flattered. And when somebody, they say something like this about me or But the truth is, as time goes by, things get better.

Yeah, it's sports, music, everything. Everyone loves when they were a kid what they were watching. I believe so. Yeah. So whoever the best wrestler— you know, we talked about professional wrestling. Everyone always— the old guys are so much better, you know, but it's evolved and they got more athletic and they do cooler stuff.

There is exception. There is guys that will transcend in history that will maybe be the best for a few generations, but eventually Eventually. Yeah, absolutely.

George, it was an honor to do this podcast. I appreciate you so much. I'm excited to see what you do on your podcast journey, and I can't wait to speak again some other time.

Thank you, man. I appreciate you. Appreciate you.