Transcript of Talking Dateline: Slow Burn

Hi everyone, I'm Blaine Alexander, and today we are talking Dateline. I am joined by my good friend Andrea Canning to discuss her episode Slow Burn. Hi Andrea!

Hey Blaine!

If you guys haven't seen the episode yet, you can stream it now on Peacock or listen in the Dateline podcast feed and then come right back here. Later on, we'll have an extra clip from the victim impact statement made by Jennifer's mother, Beth Karitas, and then after that, we will answer some of your questions from social media. Okay Andrea, let's talk Dateline. Let's Let's do it. So, before we jump into all of it, Andrea, can you just give us a quick recap of this episode?

Yeah, I mean, this one started out with, you know, there's a fire at Keith Cannaro's house. He's an entrepreneur, wealthy, very large home, um, and his family is inside the house, and they are dead, uh, and Keith is dead, and the whole family, it appears, has been murdered. Then there is another fire, 10 miles away. So the first one's in Colts Neck, the second one is in Ocean Township, New Jersey, and everyone's okay in that house. This is now Paul Cannaro. This is Keith's older brother. So two fires not too far away from each other, two brothers. Police start to quickly suspect that this could be Paul Cannaro, that he is at the center of both of these fires and the four murders. They wind up charging Paul with arson for his own house, and arson for his brother's house, and the quadruple murder of his brother's family. And he was convicted of all of his crimes.

So, this was one of our hour-long episodes, and this one just hit me so hard because in the entire first act, I was just on this emotional roller coaster because you show this beautiful family photo with these kids. We know that they weren't in school, but I'm thinking, "Okay, hopefully they were at camp," or maybe they were at camp, Maybe they were with a friend or a family member. And I just would not allow myself to believe that they had been killed too.

I know.

That's just—

I know. That's what made this episode for me just so much harder. When you are doing this to children—

Yeah.

I mean, it just takes it to another level. You know, innocent children, 8 and 11. This is their uncle. You know, he— I mean, Jesse took him to school for Special Person's Day.

What?! That just gutted me when I heard that.

What is he doing? Like, I just—

I don't know.

Like, it defies logic, the whole thing.

And I think the other piece of this is that it just— that they were stabbed. I mean, that is such an unbelievably up-close, personal way to kill anyone, right? But to kill a child. And so, as I was watching your storytelling through the first act, I'm thinking, "Okay, we know there's a body outside." Oh! Okay, it's Keith. He's dead. But then as they found more, I'm like, "Oh my God." Like, there were more. There were more. It was— the whole thing was stunning to me. I want to touch on your interview that you did with the first responders. And I was so glad that you were able to speak with them because I think anytime we can talk with first responders, especially, as I mentioned, when you have these stories of a house fire and they go in and it's like, "Okay, what are we going to find? Who are we going to find? What does it look like?" I wonder if you can just tell me a little bit behind the scenes about your conversations with them because these guys were clearly so affected. By what they saw when they found Jesse and Sophia.

What was it like sitting down with them?

Well, first of all, you know, we— our volunteer firefighters in this country, I don't think get enough applause, kudos, right? Pats on the back. They do this for free. And that Adelphia Fire Company was all volunteer. So, first of all, it's such a selfless posi— I mean, all fire— all firefighters, volunteer or not, are very selfless individuals, and they care a lot about the community. But then it's sort of like, like you take it up a notch when you don't even get paid, right? I mean, you could just see it in their eyes when they, when they talked about, you know, especially Carmelo, you know, when he held Sofia in his arms, when he, you know, we, and we didn't actually show the whole thing 'cause it was just, it was extremely sad. But he was just still, I could just see it in his eyes how horrible that moment was for him when he realized that it was a little girl that he had picked up.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that was— When I was watching it, I know that I was affected by it because I'm thinking, "Okay, maybe, you know, maybe it's his wife. Maybe it's Jennifer." And then to realize, "Oh, no, this entire family is gone." Well, and the mayor, JP, the former mayor, he would not—

He refused to even talk about the injuries of the family, of the mom and the two kids. He wouldn't even— He's like, "I'm sorry, I'm not going there. I'm just— I'm not even gonna get into that." And I don't blame him. You know, it's just— It's so graphic. It's so horrific. It's still so hard for people even to think about. This day to, to talk about it.

Yeah.

I want to talk about— what was our reporter's name? Um, Monica. Monica.

Monica.

Monica Guy. Monica Guy. I thought, what a fantastic interview. I mean, one, she's a reporter, right? And so she's there, she knows what's going on. But two, she knows the family, she clearly knows the community. I mean, this is something that just— her, in a certain way, I loved having her voice in this story and just hearing her perspective.

She was— she, she was a unique— yeah, because it is a small town, right? And then to be not only you're a neighbor, then you're a reporter covering the story. And she said, you know, in the story you heard her, she said, it was the worst day of my career.

Yeah.

You know, because like tragedy just doesn't usually strike that close to home for media, right? And for Monica to be able to sit down and talk about it was really, um, like I was— it was really impressive that she was able to get it out, but in such a like really heartfelt way. And she didn't want anyone thinking she's trying to get attention for this or anything, 'cause she's not. You know, she was there to honor them and just talk about how deeply it affected the community, what wonderful people they were. That was Monica's, you know, reason for doing the episode.

Yeah.

Well, it was a powerful voice to add to the episode.

She really had a powerful voice.

I agree. She did. Speaking of, I was so impressed. I loved hearing from the friends who knew, uh, Jesse and Sophia, the siblings. Um, because I mean, gosh, how— I was struck by the fact that they were so young when this happened, and now they've grown up. They're several years now removed. What, 5, 6 years? But the fact that they were obviously so impacted by this, and it was such a large moment, especially in the life of a child. I thought that hearing their voices really just kind of drove home what this did to the community.

Absolutely.

I mean, we, like, in our, in our town, we just, we just had a young boy in my daughter's friend group die of cancer. Oh, you know, and, and I saw how that just hit the young community so hard. Yeah. You know, it was, it was really devastating for them. But that's one of those things you can explain. You know, that's, that happens in life. People get sick, right? It's It's not fair and it's sad, but it, you know, it happens.

It happens. Yeah.

But to have to explain to your children that their best friend's uncle killed them, you have to explain evil.

You have to explain that someone is evil, someone is mean, right? And that's a lot harder to drive home to a child.

I don't know how those poor parents told them the news. You know, it, it's really hard to imagine having to tell your children that.

And kids grow up together, right? I mean, that's their sense of safety is their friend group and the people that they're around. So I'm really glad that they, um, spoke. What was it like for you talking with them? How were they during that process?

Well, I know it was really hard for them. They really wanted to do it. That's the thing. There was no pressuring of these kids.

Sure.

Because the moms were going to do it.

And that's important to say. Yes, they wanted to do this.

The moms were gonna do it and the kids were gonna do it, and then the moms decided they couldn't handle it, you know, it was just too hard, so they backed out. But the kids We're like, no, we're not backing out. We want to do this. We want to do this for our friends. They pulled it together and I tried my best to put them at ease. And they were like just lovely, lovely children, teenagers. And it hit me when, when, you know, the, the boy said— I was talking to him before we started the interview and he said, I'm a senior. Yeah, I'm graduating. And it hit me in that moment. And I thought, wow, Jesse, would have been graduating.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, like, with his class this year.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And that just drives it home even more, right? Of where he would be now. When we get back, we will hear some of the emotional victim impact statement made by Jennifer's mother at Paul's sentencing. You know, I have to say, I talked about the fact that I went on an emotional roller coaster in Act 1, but— Probably the first 3 acts. I was all over the place watching this. And I think— and it was funny because Jay and I were watching this together, so I'm like emoting out loud, and he's giving his thoughts.

You sound like my husband. He sounds like Tony. He does that.

Just kind of, what are we thinking? Because I always go into it cold. I hadn't read any of our stuff in the file or anything. And so, um, so at first, when you— I remember when you mentioned that he had been taken to school for Favorite Person's Day, or, you know, I was thinking, oh my God, it might be him. They're spending so much time talking about Paul. But then When I heard that there was a fire at his house, I said, "No, no, no, no, no. I was wrong. It's not him. We're now being targeted." Right?

Yeah.

That was exactly what I thought. And I remember thinking, "Oh my goodness, is it for their money? Is it people are jealous of—" I mean, I really started— that went through me for a loop. Yeah. Which I'm sure was the point of him doing that. That definitely threw me for a loop in that. The whole thing was stunning to me. We see these stories so often, and I know you've had some, I've had some, where someone tries to set a fire to cover up the evidence. And— in some way it doesn't work, right? I think that when I saw that part about him going up and unplugging the security camera in the middle of the night, it's like, okay, that clearly—

that, you know, Blaine, it's not the first time that I've— I had a story last year where the killer, you see him walking up to the camera and disabling the camera. I'm like, what, do you not think that these images will be telling? Like captured? I don't understand. What do you think happens up to the point where you disconnect?

You know, you see these people who think things all the way through in so many different ways, and that just seems like it's such an obvious miss.

Well, and it made me think of, you know, in the case of Nancy Guthrie, which is still unsolved, and of course, you know, our hearts go out to Savannah for that, and we really, if anyone obviously has any tips, you know, call the FBI. But, you know, that was such a big part of that story as well. You know, the final image of someone disconnecting connecting her camera. And it seems to keep coming up in, in these Dateline episodes, how the cameras factor into things. It does.

I think it got a lot of people thinking about their own security, their home security systems, in a different way. And it does bear pausing on that too. Um, I want to give that number: 1-800-CALL-FBI. That's the number that we've been putting out there. Um, thank you for doing that. And her family so much. Like, it's, it's, it tears at us at all, at all times. It really does. 1-800-CALL-FBI.

Yeah, we just want it solved for Savannah. And her family.

I'm glad that we got a chance to, to put that out there because people are always listening, especially our Dateline listeners. I mean, you and I talk about how astute our Dateline viewers and listeners are, and so if they know anything, please, if you know anything, call FBI. Absolutely. I want to talk about the money here. It's certainly no stranger to a Dateline plot that there's insurance money involved, that there's money, but when you set the sum, $1.5 million, I was shocked at just how— that's not a lot of money to massacre your entire family, including children, right? And I say this, I say this delicately because there's no amount of money that's worth killing anyone or your family or anything like that. But $1.5 million, I, I was, I was honestly expecting the number to be higher, right? If that's kind of what he stood to—

well, again, but they say it was more than that. The prosecutors say it was more than that, that he was jealous. He was vindictive. He was angry with his brother. And then if you looked at those— what, the one section of the email section where Paul and Keith were emailing each other? And yes, and you know, uh, Paul says, I don't want to sell the pest control business right now, I want to wait. And you can see how Keith controls everything. He's like, no, we're selling now. Like, and because Keith was the one with all the money, he was what, 90%? It was 90% his business. So The pest control was 50/50, and then the IT company, which had been very successful in the past, was 90/10 for Keith. Got it. And the IT business was— did very, very well. But then, you know, it, it's the need for an IT business, like outsourcing IT, you know, is just fading away, right? So, and AI is getting involved in that. And so anyway, he, he realized, he's like, you know what, it's This has been a good run. It's time to get out of the IT business.

And I just wanna sell everything at this point. You know, just be done with the pest control. So, Paul didn't like that. And so, it was more like the prosecutor said, you know, greed, revenge, like all, you know, kind of a—

All of those things.

A cauldron of bad blood, right? On Paul's side, really. And Keith— Sure. You know, some, some said that Keith was growing tired of his brother and, you know, taking care of him. And, and also he had caught him, um, you know, according to prosecutors, Keith had caught him stealing. So he was really getting, you know, frustrated with the situation. And Paul was living above his means with his other woman, his daughters, all of his fancy cars. And, you know, he, he wasn't bringing in enough money to cover all that.

I think you labeled it right when you called it a story like Cain and Abel. Yeah. It was very akin to that. You know, this deep jealousy. I did have one question, and I wonder if you could answer this for me. I wondered why Keith texted Paul in the middle of the night to say, "Hey, looks like my generator's out.

I'm gonna go outside and fix it." Yeah, well— Were they already talking? So, what we learned was that Keith was, like, the businessman, Paul was the tech. Paul was the techie, the, the guy who took care of everything for Keith. You know, Paul's the guy who fixes everything. So probably, you know, Paul had a feeling that he would come out there, and, you know, sure enough, you know, he— it was a trap, right? He, he led his brother outside to a trap, which is so scary that he was lying in wait, you know. Of Of course.

Let's talk a little bit about— So, of course, he's arrested, he's charged, and it goes to trial. Let's talk about the trial. Specifically, I want to talk about Paul's defense attorney, Monica. Monica Mastalone. Yeah. Yeah. Monica Mastalone. And I've got to say, one, when she— when you— I think you had it in a tease at the end of Act 5 of, "There's a third brother." I thought, "Maybe it was the third brother." I mean, I was all over the place with this episode.

Let's call it what it is. Monica had a very difficult case. To defend. Very. I mean, the evidence was really stacked against Paul, so, you know, I think she did a good job for what she had to work with. But that was— that's one you can call an uphill battle for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. It sounded like— I want to ask you about Paul's family throughout all of this. It seemed like they were standing by.

I mean, they wouldn't do interviews. They, they weren't interested. Um, but yeah, the daughters testified for him. The family showed up to court. I don't know how much, but that they definitely were trying to help them. So— Wow. But yeah, they wouldn't, they wouldn't speak to us.

Well, one family member we did hear from, and this is our extra sound, we also heard from Jennifer's mother, who spoke at Paul's sentencing hearing. Tell us a little bit about her, and then we can listen to what she had to say.

Yeah, I mean, the family also declined to do interviews, Jennifer's family. Mm-hmm. What I know from their testimony in the courtroom is just how gutted they are, how devastated they are, how, how does a family move on from something this horrific?

Well, let's listen to what she had to say in court.

Jennifer, my daughter, was a beautiful person. She was warm, vibrant, caring. Wife, daughter, sister, friend, and most of all, a wonderful mother. Keith was a loving and devoted father, husband, son, and brother. He had a brilliant mind, and his success was only because of his incredibly hard work and doggedness. He was the son I never had. A true loving son. A man who would be there to help anyone in need. Jennifer and Keith had the same birthday and sadly now share the same day of passing. My grandson Jesse. I wish I could have seen him grow up. He had a mind like his father's. So smart. Deeply interested in history. A kind heart. Cared about everyone. Sophia, my beautiful granddaughter, So young, she loved to dance, sing, play with makeup. She put on makeup better than I did. She was joyful, spirited, and kind like her mother. Jesse would be graduating now and going to college in the fall. Sophia High School. Lives stolen. There is not an hour in the day I do not think of them. And to think of them is to think about this terrible thing, how their last moments were terrifying, painful, and horrific.

How each of them looked at their Uncle Paul as he killed them, killing them in front of each other like an animal.

Ooh. Wow. That's hard to hear, right? I mean— Wow. Yeah. But at the same time, she's so well-spoken. She hit, like, every point, as hard as it is to hear.

That was, like, so powerful. I mean, she really drove it home. She did. I think watching them— They had to look into the face of their uncle. As he slaughtered the family. And then ultimately, then that's—

and we, you know, we had someone saying that in one of the interviews, and I said, I, you know what, I don't really want to include that, you know. And sometimes you just make that editorial choice because it was just— it's almost too painful. And to— like, maybe that's the wrong call, I don't know.

But you know what, I think that— and I had this experience recently with a story that involved kids too. I thought about you as I watched this piece because Obviously, we're both mothers, and there is something about doing these stories where children are involved, where children are harmed— It's the worst. —that is just so hard.

It is the worst. It's so hard. It really is the worst. It's like, "Ooh." I'm like, "I'm on the verge of tears right now." Oh, yeah.

I think that you handled it so well, though. I mean, both talking with the friends who had had to deal with such a tragedy so young, in honoring— The kids, Jesse and Sophia, I think that you handled it so beautifully. Oh, thank you. And it's not easy.

Um, well, they— I understand that. They made it easy for me, you know, 'cause they were, they were so lovely. You know, Cassie, our producer, wanted to remind me of something, and this'll, this'll lighten the mood for a moment here for all of us.

Okay. We'll take it, please.

We do these long interviews and we are constantly interrupted by weed whackers, lawnmowers, planes, trucks backing up. Trains, people with bad mufflers going by, talking, clanking. I mean, literally, you name it. Sirens, whatever. Yeah, yeah. And we were doing an interview, and I guess it was with JP, the former mayor, and we kept getting interrupted by chickens because they— every time they would lay an egg, they— that's what the owners told us of the facility, that whenever they lay an egg, they start clucking or whatever. And so we— I was like, that's a new one.

I was like, where are chickens?

Was there just a chicken farm right there?

Some type of like barn setting. Yeah. And the chickens were like out back. And so, um, yeah, it was kind of funny because, you know, it's, it's like, add it to the list, a new sound disruptor: chickens. That is hilarious.

You know, I've got to say, we do some— we do interviews in some interesting places. Well, no, this was a well-told episode. I really appreciated it. And thank you for this conversation. This was a good one. It was a tough one.

But yeah, always like having these conversations with you, Blaine.

Agree. Thank you. Coming up next, we're going to answer some of your questions on social media.

Hello, everyone, again. Blaine had to go off on a shoot. So we are here with the incredibly talented and hardworking producer, producer of this episode, Cassandra Marshall. And hey, Cassandra. Hey, Andrea. Or Cassie, as I like to call you. Um, yes. So, uh, you are here to help us with our social media section. All right, let's start with— this is from Flutie Fan. She says Keith was shot in the head and still ran outside. That's quite a feat. But I don't— do we think he— that was in the house? Probably not, right?

No. I can understand why a viewer might be confused at that point. It's the sort of the way the investigators felt. I mean, they get to the house, they see him out there, they see he's shot, there's a fire going on. But what they learn in the next couple of days and weeks is they find the shell casings out in the yard. And so in that moment, they didn't know that. But later, they— based on that evidence, conclude that, you know, he was shot at multiple times out in the yard. And then later, they sort of get access to his electronic equipment, Keith's, and learn that, you know, the electricity had gone out in the house, and so he got an alert about that, and he went outside to check the generator, the backup generator, which was near the area where he was found. And so they, they feel pretty confidently that he was lured out there by the electricity being cut off and then shot at.

Yeah, that— I mean, that was all they believe part of the diabolical plan by Paul. Exactly. Um, okay, so this is from Southern Beach Girl. She said, I can't even imagine how heartless you have to be to stab little kids. I mean, that was probably like the number one comment, right? Is how is this— how can someone do this, right?

Everybody we spoke to in interview was just heartbroken and said that this was probably one of the most heartbreaking and difficult cases they worked because of that element of the kids being involved, and especially being the niece and nephew that to everybody's experience, they were quite close, you know, that he had a close relationship with them. It wasn't like they were— the whole family were estranged. Not that that would justify it in any way whatsoever, but it did add a layer of disbelief and just sort of like, you know, being sick to your stomach when you think about their last moments and knowing that it's at the hands of their uncle.

Nothing about this case makes sense. This is from Caitlin or—

S-T-R-Y-X-Owl.

Don't they say don't mix business with family? Hmm.

Well, I mean, yes, it did have horrible consequences in this case, but I mean, I think we all know that there's tons of family businesses out there that are successful without any kind of problems whatsoever. And from what I heard in my reporting and at trial, this business relationship worked very well for a very long time. You know, this was— these were issues that they had coming to a boiling point, you know, in the last year. So you never know what pushed— I mean, we cover stories all the time that we don't understand, pushes people over the edge.

And that's the problem, is when you try to understand things, like, you, you know, you're gonna beat your head against the wall because there's just— there's like no understanding. You know, family businesses, sure, they probably have all kinds of drama, I'm assuming, you know, for people. Right, right. But—

And they said that these brothers fought all the time. That was sort of the nature of their relationship, you know? But then they would make up very quickly, which is why, like, for example, remember the fact that even though he was— Keith was arguing with Paul and about to cut him off, like, when the electricity goes out, who does he call?

Text first. Yeah. Or text. He texts Paul. Paul. Yeah, right. And the defense used that, you know, as part of their defense that, um, that, that this was something they did, but they always, you know, made up quickly. Um, okay, so let's see. Sergeant Marty: Defense lawyers really have to compartmentalize their work, huh? Cognitive dissonance. I mean, defend—

I mean, this was a public defender, and I mean, all defense attorneys have this sort of like, you know, oath or duty to defend their their client to the best of their ability. You don't— And public defenders especially do not get to choose their cases. So you work with what you have. And this defense attorney was very articulate with us. You know, I think we both sort of felt— She felt that it was her duty, it was her calling. She was passionate about it, doing the best that she could. And she also talked about how Paul's wife and friends were supporting him throughout this process. So, I mean, I think she did what she was supposed to do.

She did her job. And that's what makes our country different from a lot of countries, you know, around the world. We have, like, a pretty amazing justice system. It's not perfect by any means, but, you know, it's— you know, they're there for a reason. Yes. All right. Well, that's it. For talking Dateline. Thank you so much. Um, I, I want to say— well, I'm supposed to say Cassandra, but I'm going to say Cassie. Thank you. Um, thank you for coming on and answering. Thanks for having me. Our amazing viewers' questions and listeners. And thank you all as well for listening. Remember, if you have any questions about our stories, you can DM us your audio or video on our socials at DatelineNBC, or leave us a voicemail at 212-413- 5252 for a chance to be featured right here. And you can watch the video version of Talking Dateline on Peacock or YouTube, or subscribe to the NBC News app. We'll see you Friday for an all-new Dateline on NBC.