Transcript of Talking Dateline: The Bluegrass Mystery New

Hi everyone, I'm Andrea Canning, and we are talking Dateline. And today we're joined by Blaine Alexander to talk about her episode, The Bluegrass Mystery. And if you haven't seen it, you can watch the episode on Peacock or listen to it in the Dateline podcast feed and then come right back here. Later, we'll have an extra clip from Blaine's interview with one of Ella Jackson's friends about the two words she'd use to describe Ella as a mom. But first, let's talk Dateline. Hey Blaine, how are How are you?

Let's do it. Andrea, I'm so glad to see you.

How are you?

Good.

And I hope that you had a wonderful birthday because I know—

Thank you so much.

It was a big one. Congratulations.

40 years, which is wild.

Oh, I'm sorry. I was going to say 30. I thought you were 30.

Oh, that's so sweet.

You look 30.

Thank you, my love. I'll take it. I'll take all of that energy as I enter my 40s. Awesome.

Okay.

Thank you.

So, all right. So let's get right to this episode. Blaine, first, just give us a little recap of the Bluegrass Mystery and what it was about.

So this is a story that takes place in Kentucky, as the name might tell you. Um, this centered around Ella Jackson. She is somebody who was a fantastic mom by all accounts. She had an adult son, Philip, and a younger son who's about 6 years old named Alex. Um, but one day her husband called 911 to say that she'd gone missing. Police don't do anything until about 24 hours later when her adult son calls and says, you know what, this is not like my mom, this doesn't seem good. Please investigate. Investigators look at 3 men in her life: her current husband Glenn, her ex-husband Jason, to whom she's still very close and friendly, and her adult son Philip. And so through a number of different twists and turns, they ultimately settle on Glenn Jackson, her current husband, who had killed her and disposed of her body.

Yeah, I mean, let's start from the beginning. That 911 call, that was one of the most bizarre 911 calls I think I've ever heard. Where, you know, he's saying, you know, "I heard on a show you don't wait to report someone missing." And then he's talking about how everything is great, like, with him. Or I just— What is happening in this 911 call?

It was the oddest thing that I have ever heard.

Can I help you?

Hi, my name is Glenn Jackson. This is not an emergency. I haven't heard from my wife in over 24 hours. Okay, is the child with you? Yes, yes, and he's fine. Everything's great. I don't personally think anything is wrong, but I heard on a show a while back that you don't wait 3 or 4 days to report somebody missing. Right.

And I kept— I kind of refer to this as like the tale of two 911 calls because you have these two calls that come in in about 24 hours apart. But yes, the first one is from Glenn Jackson, her husband, who has no concern in his voice, doesn't seem worried. In fact, he basically says, this isn't a big deal, my son and I are good, it's just that my wife has gone and I don't know where she is. And so most people listening to that would say, oh, that's, that's an odd reason to call 911. Um, but when I spoke with the investigator who led this entire thing, he told me that he really gives so much credit to Philip, Ella's adult son, for making that second 911 calling saying, please check into this. This is not my mom's normal, normal behavior.

Yeah.

You need to look further into this.

Yes. It, it reminded me of when I was a local news anchor reporter in Cincinnati. Mm-hmm. I was working the night beat, you know, and I had been sent to the police station to cover some story. And this man came into the little waiting area where I was waiting to do my interview. He comes in and he tells them at the window that his wife is missing. And he's very calm, like, doesn't seem really too concerned. I'm sitting right there listening to the whole thing. And I said to him, I was like, "Do you, like, do you want help from the news? Like, I'm a news reporter. Would you like—" And he's like, "No, no, no, no, we're— it's fine. We're not there." And I was like, "All right, you know." I guess it's probably fine. She'll turn up. And sure enough, her body was found behind a motel. And it went unsolved for a really long time until I, you know, I looked it up not too long ago, like, whatever happened to that woman? And he pled guilty to her murder. So I was there the moment he reported her missing in the police department.

I just happened to be sitting there on a bench listening to the whole thing and thinking, this guy's a little too calm. Yeah.

You know, I mean, that's kind of how it is, right? Like we say this a billion times whenever we do these stories, there is no guidebook or playbook of how you should react when something like this should unfortunately befall your family. But if your wife has gone missing, if someone you love is just gone and you don't know where they are, yes, you would expect a certain level of, you know, fervor, concern, something.

I have to be honest. I also think, um, as, as uncomfortable as that situation would be to be in, I think I, would probably go down to the police station and say, "Hey, is there somebody I can talk to?" But I digress, Blaine. Um, so funny. So let's talk about Jason, who you mentioned was the, um, the ex-husband. This was unbelievable to me. So as much as I thought, based on that opening 911 call, that Glenn had done this, then I hear about Jason and the fact that he has a wife who was murdered and it was unsolved, I was like, "Okay, Jason— Wow, Jason must have done this." You know, I was really— It really threw me for a loop because what are the odds? And now your second ex-wife has been murdered, and you're still close to that ex-wife? I thought maybe he's not over her and, you know, he did this.

It is really unbelievable that there's somebody who— Essentially, lightning would strike twice, right? Like, that you would be somebody whose wife is murdered in cold blood. I mean, he's young, they're just starting their lives together, and then decades later, almost essentially the same thing happens, right? He was still very emotional when he spoke about his first wife, uh, Irina. Like, he, he started tearing up, and I think it even caught him by surprise, right? Because this is 20-plus years removed from this, this crime, and it still chokes him up. It's interesting though, he drew a distinction because I asked him, I said, how, how does one get through something like that, have another tragedy happen, and then get through that again? And he said he sees them so very differently. He says his first wife He's like, "This is like the product of a system. Whatever happened, whoever would go up to someone and just kill them in cold blood, there was some sort of societal something that made this person the way they were." Right? That was kind of his rationale of it. But he said, "But when he talks about Ella, the fact that she was killed by somebody with whom she was supposed to have been the safest, her spouse, that is the one that really angers him because that's the place where you're supposed to be safe." That is a cruel— like, that's more of a cruel crime in his mind.

But to your question though, Andrea, about— Certainly it makes him look suspicious, and that's exactly what Detective Friend told me. That's what the chief told me. Even if they were very suspicious of Glenn, there's no way that you cannot take a second and third look at Jason when you hear that.

It sounds like he struggled a little bit with the interview, even though he's an open book. He had nothing to hide, but it sounds like it was very hard for him to sit down and talk about all this.

I think it was hard for him to talk about um, his first wife, to a degree, because that is, that is still so raw. I think his, his— in talking about Ella, his focus was very much, I want to get justice for her. And so he channeled it. There's grief, but also there's, like I said, anger. And there was a lot of just like, no, we're going to nail this guy.

I mean, it must be really unsettling to know that Irina, his first wife, that that crime is still unsolved to this day. How many years has it been?

More than 20 years, easily. Well, here's what's strange about this, Andrea. This happened right in the midst of the DC sniper Oh my gosh, I remember that like it was yesterday.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's something that all of us remember. We remember just the terror. And so when we went to Prince George's County and I spoke with the detectives there, I mean, they just kind of talked about— remember the fear? Like, everybody, they were hanging, remember, tarps over gas stations so people could pump their gas. And it was just terrifying. And so initially, when they found her just shot dead, nothing taken, no robbery, they thought, oh my God, is this another sniper victim? And so they investigated it like that for, for a little bit, but then they realize it doesn't fit the pattern.

Um, so, so yeah, I mean, is there anything, Blaine? I was just thinking, since it's unsolved, Irina's case, are there any details that you can give to people listening? If, you know, if there's any tips to be called in?

This is something that the Prince George's County Executive wanted to speak about because it is— I mean, at the end of the day, it's a cold case, and they were, you know, very eager to have the opportunity to speak about this case. It happened, um, off the Green Line. She was walking from the metro station to her apartment, and she was shot point point-blank range. Nothing was taken— no cards, no credit cards, no money, no anything. Um, she was found with a can of mace in her hand, and that's it. They didn't see that there was any sign of a struggle or anything. No, no assault. Part of the reason why they thought sniper initially, because there seemed to be no reason— no rhyme, no reason, no anything like that. I asked the detective, I said it was almost like somebody was laying in wait, waiting for her. He said yes, that's what it seemed like. So somebody who would have known that she lived there, that she takes the Metro, that she kind walks that path. Um, but yes, they are looking for any tips. And so they said, hey, if it jogs any memories, if anybody remembers anything, to please call Prince George.

Do you know her last name? I— Hans. Hans.

Okay. Yep. Irina Hans.

Who should people call if they have a tip? They should call Prince George's County Police Department.

Okay. Um, and that's 1-866-411-TIPS. And her name was Irina Hans. So they're looking for any information.

Well, I'm sure she has a family who would love to get more answers, including Jason. So Jason, absolutely. Blaine, when we get back, we are going to play a little bit more of your interview with Ella's friend, Jo Lynn, who is going to talk to us about what an incredible mother Ella was. You know, what a— what a wonderful twist in a really horrible story that Jason and his wife are adopting Ella's son, Alex. I mean, that was really amazing.

You know, it's one of those things where you never know kind of how a story will end. And happy endings are so very rare when we do these types of stories. But that really was just a beautiful, um, a beautiful wrap-up of all of this. I think the whole thing, the relationship between Jason and Ella, is just a beautiful reminder that love can take so many different forms. They didn't work as husband and wife, but they still really had love for each other and wanted to remain in each other's lives. To the point that Ella, I mean, it was clear that Jason was the person she trusted when she was she was trying to get away from Glenn, she would call Jason. When she was trying to figure out, "How do I— You know, I'm not in a good marriage. I'm not in a good situation. What should I do?" That was the person that she kind of went to for advice. And so, their love didn't work in a marriage setting, but it really did work. I mean, he is the person that kind of took over. So, he said, "You know, I know what Alex meant to her.

Like, I love him simply because she loved him." And so, that's really what started it. And I have to give a shout-out to Natalia as well, because that's— Jason Hans' current wife. His wife. And what a beautiful show of love on her part to just say, "Gosh, we don't have kids, but okay, come on in. We're gonna adopt her and become a full-time mom." I mean, that is— That is—

What good people. Something. And, you know, Ella, by all accounts, it sounds like she was an incredible mom. And I know we have an extra clip from one of Ella's friends talking about— Ella as a mom. Who are we going to hear from, Blaine, in this clip?

We're gonna hear from Jolynn Stevenson. She is a neighbor of Ella's, lived nearby, and basically watched Ella raise Alex and got to know her very well. They go from, you know, just being, "Oh, neighbors, we wave," to becoming really, really good friends. And so, she speaks beautifully about the kind of mother that Ella was. Ella took motherhood very seriously.

Very seriously. It was her primary, um, focus in life. Hmm.

What did that look like? Just kind of describe that for me.

All in. All in. It was— that was her main focus. She felt, or at least it seemed that she felt, if she could throw as much love and joy and, you know, a real wonderness of childhood into her children, that maybe what she had been through wouldn't be forced onto them. Mm.

Her sons really were the center of her world.

All the time. Absolutely. Yeah.

How would she— whenever a parent talks about their child, there's typically this kind of sound of pride in their voice. I mean, you can feel the love, you can feel the pride. How would Ella talk about her sons?

Exactly as she said, with, with pride, being the center of her world. I never heard her speak negatively about them. I never heard her be frustrated with them. I'm sure she was. I'm sure she was.

I'm a mother.

I know you're a mother.

You know. But she never said, oh my gosh, driving me crazy. He's driving me— he's doing all this stuff.

She never used those moments to burden someone else with that frustration.

It sounds like she was just really mindful of the energy she put out to everybody around her.

Yes. Yeah. And I, to this day, do not know how she did it. It's a skill. It's an incredible skill.

Yeah, it's an incredible skill.

Yeah, I don't know how she did it. So that was Jolynn.

I mean, you could just hear Andrea when she talks about her friend. She just admired her. I mean, she was kind of a, a mom role model for her. Um, she talks about just the many ways that Ella would pour into Alex. And we keep talking about Alex, of course, because he was the younger one, but it was the very same with Philip. But by this time, Philip was an adult. He's grown. I mean, they had a close relationship, but it was very different. Um, but I mean, would read to him constantly. I mean, just filling his mind with science. And it's interesting because when I met Alex, um, you know, and we said he didn't wanna show his face current day, um, but he really wanted to be there to honor his mom. He is a brilliant child. I mean, worldly, it's clear that he travels a lot now with, uh, Jason and Natalia, but he traveled a lot with his mom. You know, when you come across kids and you're like, oh, you're gonna do well. Like he is, he is one of those children. And so you can see just the nurturing that his mom poured into him even at an early age.

Mm-hmm. And so, Jolen really captured that, I think.

I love that. I love that. I mean, that is one of the best endings, you know, that I've seen in a while, where the son runs into the arms of two loving people who really want him. Yes, exactly. And are going to, you know, keep him hopefully on the right track, which it sounds like he's doing great, so— Yeah. And who actually knew his mom.

Like, Jason actually knew his mom and can really speak about his mom. So, it really is such a beautiful— situation for him.

Uh, one of the things that really struck me from the story that we see so often is victims speaking through their own words from before they died. And, and this was a really good example of a victim who had big concerns, um, and kind of knew that something might happen.

I mean, she made close to 70 kind of secret recordings of these— Yeah, of these interactions that she had with Glenn. The reason that she was trying to get all of her ducks in a row, according to Jason, was that she was fearful of what would happen to Alex if she were to leave. Because she said, this is according to Jason, to the investigators, that she feared that Glenn had connections, he had money, he had means, and that were she to leave, that he would be able to take custody. Of Alex. And so she was trying to work with an attorney, she was trying to work with advocates to kind of figure out what she could do, um, to get out of the situation, but also make sure that she kept custody of her young son. And so that was, by all accounts, kind of the delay in getting out. But in the meantime, she was very clear that she was endangered. And so she was recording, she wrote in her journal to say basically this, this about her husband. And then, as you heard from Philip in one of the police interviews, she even told her adult son, hey, if something happens to me, here's where you need to look.

All the red flags were there.

And, and he is just an odd guy, uh, Glenn. He is— he drops to his knees at the park when he's been annoying women, and then the, the officer sees him and he drops to his knees and says, 'This is how I talk to students.' And you're like, you're like, 'Yeah, these are not kindergarten students, that you—

these are college students, basically adults.' Yes. I'm so glad that we got that, that body camera video because it really had nothing to do with the story, but it, it gave a very good window into the type of person that Glenn just his oddities. I mean, I think Detective Friend did a very good job of describing it in our interview. And I should mention, that was our first— that was the first time Detective Friend had ever sat down, ever done an interview. That was the first time he'd spoken about this. But he really talked about, in those long interviews that he would have with Glenn, just how strange it was. I mean, this is somebody who's just— would be— I guess the word filibuster comes to mind. I mean, he would sit and filibuster and just have these kind of meandering explanations. But then, yes, the, the, the body camera video. He's out there at a dog park talking to women, but obviously they're very uncomfortable, uncomfortable enough to call police. He squats down, keeps getting back up. I mean, all of it together just paints a picture of a very strange, uh, individual. But the detective was very clear, but he was like, you know, this is somebody who always wanted to be the smartest person in the room, right?

And that's the same thing that Jolynn said about him. That's the same thing that Dana, another one of Ella's friends, said about him. All of them were like, he is this person who wanted to to be the smartest person in the room and kind of had this way of talking down to people, in a sense.

Meanwhile, he was like the weirdest guy in the room. Yeah, strangest, for sure. Um, okay, so I do— I'm, I'm— I never want to be judgy. However, I will say this.

I love this, this little intro, by the way.

I'm sure this man is very nice, but the friend who did not tell the police when Glenn basically confessed to killing Ella, and then he was like, "I didn't know if it was a real confession." I'm like, "How about you err on the side of caution?" I mean, the confession itself was wild, right?

That Glenn called him over under the guise of, "Hey, let's get our kids together. Let's have a playdate." And he takes his phones. He describes how Glenn took both of their phones and put them in the car, like, away from them.

Oh my gosh.

And then comes back and kind of— You know, the way that we were standing, leaning against the car, that's kind of how the conversation went, essentially, according to him.

This is not enough for this man.

And he confesses. And he confesses that this might be real. And, you know, and you heard me ask him, I was like, why not take this to police? He eventually did. But he said, yeah, she hadn't been found. I didn't know if it was real. Really wasn't sure. There, there are some questions I know that some, some folks have over that. But that's—

yes. Well, you were very nice to him, but I was like, "Come on, let's just use some common sense here." Uh, the— you know, a lot was made of the sentence that Glenn received. And I'm sorry, but like, he could be out by 2034. First of all, he's on house arrest. Then they give him time served for his house arrest, and then it's this short?

So, let's talk about the house arrest. To make bond on murder charges first is wild, but to come out and to be able to be on house arrest for 5 years, I mean, that is an incredibly long time. Time. And Jillian talks about the fact that, I mean, remember, she still lives nearby, and so she sees the guy walk into the mailbox. Like, she sees him knowing that he's been arrested for allegedly killing her friend. That's just got to be terrifying in and of itself. But then move on to that, and then he— or move on past that, and it's the Alford plea that he takes. And just, yeah, for Alford plea, for anybody who's listening, it's basically acknowledging that the prosecution has enough evidence to convict you without actually pleading guilty to it or taking responsibility. And that just incensed a lot of people.

It really really did. Um, and then, yes, yeah, yeah.

And then that sentence is short, like you said.

All right, Blaine, coming up next, we are going to highlight some of the questions and comments people have. Love it. Come on. All right. Okay, welcome back. We have, uh, your questions and comments from social media, and we actually heard Blaine from people who had Glenn as a professor at Eastern Kentucky.

Oh wow, interesting. Oh, okay, let's hear these, right? Can you imagine looking back and saying, I was actually in his lectures while this was going on? No. Oh no.

Okay, uh, so Mackenzie Combs wrote, I was a student in his class at Eastern while all this was occurring. Very interesting watch for sure. Christian Gayhart, he was my professor at the time of the murder. Becca Townsend, I had Glenn Jackson at EKU shortly after she disappeared, he seemed off and acting weird. Wow. Yeah.

Well, first off, to all, all three of those students or former students who wrote in, thank you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. Um, what an unbelievable intersection. I mean, I think that we've gotten a lot of different comments of people who maybe knew about cases, but I can't imagine one where there were actually students who were in there while this whole thing was going on. After this man was— now we know the timeline had actually killed his wife. That is a— that's astonishing. That's a story. Oh my goodness.

Um, oh, we, we got another comment from Daniel, Daniel Kramer on Facebook. Daniel said, here with my notepad, keenly picking up body language and listening to every word of every interview of everyone involved, because you just never know. I appreciate you. So true.

I appreciate you. You're a very thorough viewer, and we appreciate that. You know, I have— I've got to say that but there have been a couple of times when we've had comments, or I'll just kind of sift through our comments on social media during an episode. And a couple of times viewers have picked up on things that I didn't see, or there will be like a small detail, or, "Oh, did you notice that?" Or something that is just like most people with the naked eye would not see, or raise some sort of question. And so, shout out to Daniel and our other eagle-eyed viewers.

Don't we have the best viewers and listeners ever? Yes. On Dateline, without question.

Yes. Without question. Half of you guys actually could go into investigative work yourselves if you wanted to. So, if you need a second career out there, look into that. It's so true.

It's so true. And they come up to us everywhere. You know, when we're out, when we're in airports, when we're, like, you know, shooting stories, they— I don't know about you, but I love engaging— Oh, absolutely. —with them when I'm out in the field, or out in the wild, the world, because it's so great to hear their perspectives and what they're interested in. I find it to be very interactive. Whether it's in person or on social media.

I think it's so much fun. And I also think that it's— it— you kind of get the different reasons as to why people watch, right? Or why people are drawn in or want to solve or want to protect themselves or whatever it is. So, yeah. And I also always get that people say we put them to sleep at night. They'll turn on the podcast and our voices put them to sleep.

Oh my gosh. I got this, um, I got this message from a woman who was on a girls' weekend and she woke up in the middle of the night and she heard my voice and she was like, what is happening? And so she like left the room left. She went out of her bedroom and followed the voice, followed my voice to another bedroom. She opened the door and her friend on this girls' weekend was fast asleep with her podcast going, phone, or her laptop or something right next to her because she falls asleep to Dateline. Oh my God. And she hadn't shut it off. Oh my gosh. So she heard my voice coming from the bedroom.

That is hilarious. That is— you were just kind of floating in the house right there in the vacation home, right? Well, the thing is, the power of the voice, right? So many people know us only through podcasts. I went to a few weeks ago, I was at, uh, Kale Me Crazy ordering some lunch and the gentleman who was behind the counter was like looking down, he was typing my order. So I'm saying my order and then he goes, Blaine, are you Blaine from Dateline? He hadn't even looked at my face, but he was just like, I recognized your voice as I'm talking about my like quinoa salad. And he said, I listen to that podcast through rush hour traffic all the time. So shout out to, I forget his name, but, uh, in Kale Me Crazy. And he listens all the time. Yeah.

And also, Blaine, too, you have a unique, um, name too. Blaine. Like, I feel like it's a very, um, memorable name.

That is true. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Yeah, I, I'm like Andrea, right? I got like the boring, the boring Andrea name, but that's okay. Beautiful name. Um, yeah, I was named after a downhill skier, Andrea Mead Lawrence. Really? So my mom was a downhill skier and she named me after this, this skier that she looked up to.

You know, it makes a lot of sense because you were so adventurous. I can imagine you having some downhill skier, like, energy in your name and in your blood. That makes all the sense in the world. That actually answered a lot of questions for me, so thank you. There you go, there you go.

Okay, it's all about— right, yes. Um, okay, we got a clarifying question from Jude Marie Goudreau about motive. Um, Dateline NBC, you didn't say why he did it. Was it because she was going to divorce him? Um, and then Carol Colleen McDonald responded to Jude Marie and said, "I was wondering this as well, but he didn't admit anything, so only, uh, he knows, I guess." But do we know?

Uh, Jude, thank you so much for that great question. So again, he didn't confess, he didn't admit anything, and so this was all kind of left for detectives to piece together. But they do believe that perhaps the tipping point, or what set him off, was Ella finally being about to leave. And him getting upset and flying into a rage and killing her. Or she said something to the effect of, "I'm leaving you, I'm divorcing you," or he found that out in some way, and that's what sent him over the edge.

So that is it, Blaine, um, for this edition of Talking Dateline. Always a pleasure to see your face and to discuss all of these interesting things that we cover.

Absolutely. It's like a reunion and a conversation all in one. I love it.

It is. Yes, thank you. All right, uh, remember, if you have any questions about our stories, you can DM us your audio or video on our socials @DatelineNBC, or you can leave us a voicemail at 212-413-5252 for a chance to be featured right here. And you can watch the video version of Talking Dateline on Peacock or YouTube or subscribe to the NBC News app. And with that, we will see you Fridays on Dateline on NBC. See you.