Transcript of Candace Owens x Ana Kasparian New

All right, you guys, I am so excited. Uh, I have been saying, you've probably seen this all over online, that I have been dying to host Ana Kasparian because I feel like at the exact same time, uh, her and I had perhaps a broader awakening about this left-right paradigm that is not serving the left or the right and is only serving the elites. It's how we are all feeling right now. And similarly, her and I are both under a very severe attack from Zionists who who I guess want our families to be harmed. Anna Kasparian, welcome to the Candace Show.

Thank you for having me.

I'm like thrilled to have you. It's just so funny because we hated each other.

Yes, so much. So much. I mean, it's— it is wild where we're at. But I'll tell you where I started to change my mind about you. Um, it was a few years ago where— well, first of all, it started with your firing at The Daily Wire and what you were fired for, right? Uh, the fact that you were willing to call out a genocide for what it is. Uh, and I And I really respected that 'cause there weren't really any media people on the right at all at that time who were willing to do it. Then after that, you went on, I think maybe a few podcasts where you talked about your evolution in regard to your perception of Muslims.

Mm-hmm.

And I was like, okay, that takes an honest person to say that, to like admit I was wrong. And especially on the right where, you know, the Islamophobia, Which I think is the product of brainwashing, is still very much prominent, right? And then the final thing that happened was you went on, I think it was Breaking Points, you were talking to Sagar and Jetty. This is before the election. You were in support of Donald Trump at the time, but Sagar asked you, you know, you're against invading Iran or going to war with Iran. What would you do if Trump gets elected and he goes to war with Iran? You just straight up said, I will no longer support him and I'll be vocal about it. And I'm like, okay, we'll see. We'll see. And you made good on that promise. And I, I'm, I really appreciate that.

Yeah. I, I think for me, I had to sort of reexamine it. It, it takes a lot of humility. I think when you have a public platform, people are always rooting for you to be wrong anyway. And I think it's a, the reason that so many people hold onto ideas even when they know they're wrong. Yes. They just don't wanna do the thing and go through the process of change.

But people love it. Yeah. People love when you're willing to be honest about, what you were incorrect about and that you're willing to recalibrate or evolve on an issue. I, I know that I'm growing and evolving. I mean, I started working at TYT when I was like 20 years old, and so I'm now gonna turn 40 in July. So that's 20 years. For me to not change at all would be ridiculous and embarrassing, to be quite frank.

Right, right.

And so I'm, I'm proud of my changes. I'm open-minded. I'm willing to have conversations with just about anyone as long as I know it's gonna be good faith. Mm-hmm. And, um, we have to find a way to bring the American people together because we are in the fight of our lives. Our government is not representing us, and the only way we can change things is if we're willing to build coalitions and work together on our system of government and making the reforms that we need. We need to get money out of politics.

Mm-hmm.

We need to ensure that foreign governments do not have a say on our foreign policy or our domestic policy. Um, if we don't do that, we're screwed. Our country's done. And so I'm noticing that there is some growing unity between the left and the right, the anti-war left, anti-war right, who are privy to the fact that our politicians are super corrupt, that they're bought by moneyed interests. And you can't really solve that problem with one group of voters. You really need all hands on deck.

You do. And I think for me, when I started to have these scales fall from my eyes for a second time, by the way. I feel like I sort of graduated to politics. I was like, oh, I figured this out. Republicans have it right and the left has it, you know, Democrats have it wrong. And I felt so great about that. And I felt like so free and so smart. And so then when I went through this second process and was going, wait a minute, why is genocide sometimes okay? And going, I can't have gotten that wrong. Come on, come on, Republicans. This is obviously what's happening in Gaza is wrong. It's kind of a scary process because then you have to, you go, How could I have had this so wrong?

Totally.

How could I have had this so wrong?

It, it is, it's a scary process because politics has become more than just, oh, this is a group of people I agree with on policies. It, it turned into, I think, a replacement for religion for some people. It turned into, because think about, you know, the era when everyone went to church or everyone went to temple or, or, you know, mosque, whatever. It, it's your community, right? These are people that you communicate with. These are people who might have different politics than you, but you share a faith. And as a result, you have exposure to people who have different ideas. But then as people became less and less religious in this country, I think politics or political parties kind of became the church.

Mm-hmm.

Right. And it's scary to go against your community.

Right. And that's it. You, you suddenly find yourself in a position where you have to make all new like political friend, so to speak.

Exactly. Yes.

And then you see what they are capable of, what they are willing to do, how much it is, right? Just as you're describing, not even a religion, a cult. And the— how quickly I was sort of excommunicated.

That's sad.

And they tried to, just as if you're leaving a cult, convince me that I was the crazy person, right? For saying something so sensible, like, hey, killing kids is wrong. We shouldn't do that. Like saying a statement like Brian Mast did about the Palestinians, there's no such thing as an innocent Palestinian, which is what I was tweeting about in particular, everyone should just have been like, of course this is a wrong statement from Brian Mast. But they tried to play this psychological game on me where they were gaslighting me.

Like you were the wrong, like you were in the wrong because you realize that you have a sitting United States congressman wearing the uniform of a foreign, foreign country in the halls of Congress talking about how it's okay to just slaughter an entire group of people, including women, children, elderly people. Because of the cult he's in. It is a cult. And I mean, what are our values as a country? And the other thing is the fact that you were willing to put everything on the line to speak out against the genocide in Gaza made me realize that you are actually good faith on other political views you have, right? Because I'm, I'm pro-choice. That, that hasn't changed. I mean, I'm definitely not in favor of, um, you know, late-term abortions happen, but they're very rare. But, you know, I think that there were some laws written in a way that could have been abused, whatever, you know, but my point My point is, when it came to conservatives who said that they're anti-choice, I was like, they just want to control women. That's all it's about. They don't actually see the fetus as a life.

They don't see a zygote as the same as a human life. No, but you do actually, right? Because you'll see conservatives cheer on what's happening in Gaza and now Lebanon and now Lebanon and then purport to be pro-life.

Yep. That was one of the big ones for me where I was going, we're pro-life and you're telling me that there's an exception because you have some heretical theology that's telling you that, oh, all of these rules are— of course we should be abiding by this, and of course it's the right thing to do, and God, God, God, Jesus Christ. And then they go, oh, but unless it happens in Israel, then it's okay. So I'm like, oh wait, so there's this random carve-out where we can mass murder kids as long as it's in Israel? Why doesn't every mass murderer just go to Israel and just do whatever they want? And then you just go, well, they're chosen, so this, this land is chosen, so they can do whatever they want on this land. That was shocking for me, and it made me go a lot deeper on theology. And gratefully, like, my husband is just, I mean, he majored in theology, and so it's been kind of a part of his internal dialog for a very long time. And I was like, what am I missing here? Like, how did I miss that I was in partnership with these people that you're right, this is not a theology for them.

This is a cult. This is a cult.

What's really interesting and something that I've always wanted to ask you about is Do you feel that— I mean, I'm sure— look, I'm seeing the success of your show. So obviously there's a giant portion of conservatives out there in this country who side with you and don't fall under the category that I'm about to describe. But do you feel like you were kind of used as a tool earlier in your career?

Absolutely.

I know.

Not feel. It's a fact.

Because when you're critical of, let's say, the Black community, Oh, they love it, right? That's when you get a platform and you get all the plaudits and speaking engagements. But once you speak out against what's happening in Gaza, you're not that useful tool anymore.

That was one of the things that was really hard for me to contend with personally, because obviously when I was at The Daily Wire, we were actually kind of in the midst of the same topic, really, right? So it's like you're talking about a race, you're saying, okay, this thing happened. So they were saying October 7th happened. BLM was saying the George Floyd thing happened, this is gonna be the impetus now. And I, they were doing things that in my view, still to this day, were just wrong. I don't care what happened in Minnesota. You don't have the right to go into Target and grab a flat screen TV. Right? Mm-hmm. And so I wanna do a documentary. I wanted to dive deeper on the topic and it was round of applause from The Daily Wire. This is amazing. Give her a platform. Then I watched the virtually the exact same thing, right? Using race as an excuse saying, oh, well, we have to do this for Jews. You had this event, this, this event that happened, which was singular. And then they tried to extrapolate it. And I'm going, well, it's still wrong. Right?

Right.

Well, the law is the law. Like, you know, morality is morality. Doesn't matter if a Black person does it or if a Jewish person does it. You don't get to rob and steal Palestinian homes.

Exactly.

And suddenly it was, you're an antisemite. You deserve to have nothing. You shouldn't even be allowed to travel to Australia. Because you are akin to Adolf Hitler. The same people that gave me the platform. And so I— yeah, it was a very tough pill to swallow.

So Australia banned you after you said that it's a genocide?

Um, yeah, that was the beginning of every— I mean, I was temporarily banned for ads from YouTube because they are organized online and started mass reporting my new channel. Um, I got banned from Australia, got fired from The Daily Wire. They, uh, started putting pressure— Ben Shapiro in particular— on You know, this is the Zionist lobby. It's not just in America, it's global. Yeah. And so I went from being a rock star to suddenly she is Adolf Hitler and deserves nothing in her life because she has a moral principle. So you kind of look and you go, well, I have two options here. I can play the game. Yeah. And do like the majority of people do and just look the other way and say, oh, I don't really care about what's happening overseas.

Go along to get along.

Go along to get along. Or you take a bold stand and you say, I'll rebuild it because I don't want to have a house that's made Um, because I'm silent on issues that actually impact my soul. I, I wanna get into heaven. Yeah.

Ex— okay. I mean, there's that for sure. But on top of that, I don't think people who go along to get along realize they're gonna get caught because audiences aren't stupid. And we might be in an environment where you can get away with either being silent or providing ridiculous excuses for why you're not speaking out against what's really going on. Or why you're not, you know, willing to tell the truth about what's going on. Eventually there's going to be enough videos of dead children. Eventually, when it comes to the war in Iran, uh, the gas prices and the inflation is going to be so bad that you're going to lose people and people are going to wake up to what the reality is. And when they are personally harmed, when their own household is personally harmed by these policies that, you know, the government pursues based on moneyed interests or foreign pressure, Well, you know, they're going to lose support from the people. And what do they do? The first thing they do is they engage in intimidation tactics, censorship. The more the, you know, pro-Israel crowd and the Zionists attempt to censor people and intimidate them, the more counterproductive they're being for their own cause.

Right. But they don't think—

because it wakes people up.

They don't think long term. They're always thinking short term and what's right in front of them. They don't— they're not trying to make friends. They're trying to terrify people. They operate exactly like a mafia. Who would you say on the left of people that maybe like were your heroes, were you shocked didn't take the moral position?

I don't talk about him that often because it really does break my heart. I, he was the best reporter after the 2008 economic collapse. Matt Taibbi. He, he hasn't taken the wrong position. He's just decided to be silent for whatever reason. And That kind of breaks my heart because he's such an amazing journalist and reporter, and I thought that he would be an important voice in exposing the truth to people. But for whatever reason, he's just decided to remain silent. And when people kind of started to nudge him about it, he continued to be silent and then defensive. And I'm like, there's something going on. Mm-hmm. And I'm also in a different place in my life where I don't feel the need to like just go outta my way to attack people. Like I used to be an attack dog a little bit.

Mm-hmm.

So I'm not like going out of my way to attack him or anything. I'm just disappointed. And so I just note it for the record and then I move on, right, to people I can trust.

Yeah, so much of that. Yeah, I think especially for me, like the obviously the Charlie Kirk assassination.

Yeah, I bet it was just—

I will never see politics the same. I'm like, what did that man live for? Yeah, well, formed all of you, all of you, me, everyone. I just thought there would be an army of people assembled. And I thought we'd have a truth in a week.

Mm-hmm.

This man is, is like a, the reason Donald Trump is in office. He was like brothers with Don Trump too. Like, I, so do you, could you imagine the shock?

Yeah.

That I have gone through? Like Kash Patel, who, who was the person writing hardcore for Kash Patel?

The other day, Kash Patel, there's something going on with that brother. I don't know what is going on with him, but there's something very strange about him. I mean, it could just be a lack of competence for the role that he's in. But when you consider the fact that he's our FBI director still, when you consider the fact that we have depleted 80% of our missile interceptors because we've given military aid to Israel, Ukraine, we're currently using interceptors, you know, in this war against Iran. I'm worried about our national security, our national security. And I'm not one of these like, ooh, I'm going to scare everybody. I'm not a scaremonger. And I never bought into national security threats or that narrative from the government when it came to manufacturing consent for wars that we got involved in. But right now, when you just look at the facts, our military capability is weakened.

Mm-hmm.

We don't have the manufacturing capacity that Iran has, for instance, like they build $5,000 drones real quick. We have an entire corrupt system where these defense contractors, first of all, we don't have like the industrial base and the manufacturing capacity to build these weapons as quickly as we would need. Okay. And then on top of that, just because we're spending an arm and a leg on our Pentagon, on our defense budget, doesn't mean that we're getting our money's worth.

No, we're sending it overseas.

We're sending it overseas. And on top of that, we're spending more than we need to on the weaponry that we purchase, the defense capabilities we purchase from these private defense contractors.

That's the kickbacks. Yeah, that's the entire neocon class.

Exactly.

And that's the Meghan McCains of the world who sit up there, have accomplished absolutely nothing in their lives, but just sit up there and go, war, war, war, war, war, because my trust one needs to grow, um, and have the audacity to lecture us.

I have a funny story about Meghan Markle.

I, I just, I am amazed that she has the audacity to ever speak, but will like, my daddy, that's her whole position in life. My daddy has never done literally anything, but then you say my daddy.

I've never met a woman in the media space or political space who's less intellectually curious than Meghan Markle.

Most unimpressive.

She's so, I mean, she used to host a show called Take Part Live. And at this time, she and I knew each other, and so I would fill in when one of the hosts was out, but we interacted. And I remember one time they called me in to be a guest on the panel, and they were gonna talk about— this is during the Obama administration— they were gonna talk about Obama's expansion of drone use in, you know, the Middle East. And a lot of innocent people were getting killed, you know, a lot of collateral damage, and people were very critical about that. And so she just had to read an article so she would know what the story is, as we talk about on the show, she couldn't be bothered to read the article. She had no interest at all. I'm like, why are you even in this space? What are you doing?

You could see that even when she was on The View.

Oh, totally.

She just had nothing to add that was intellectual, that looked like she maybe studied. She just comes across like they had a butler who did her homework. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And that she reads very few books. There's just something about her. And yet she has this attitude and this sense of this arrogance. Well, my daddy, my daddy, my daddy. And has no idea what the general viewpoint is of her father. Like, that's also stunning. It's like she thinks like her dad is some like very well-liked politician. No, actually, on the right or on the left, is your father— was your father very well-liked or is he very respected? And I think people chose this sort of, uh, respectful silence, obviously, when he passed away. And for me, a moment where I really saw what she was was when she used her father's funeral to dunk on Trump.

Like, I don't remember that.

Oh gosh, her— the speech. Yeah. Uh, my, my dad would say that this country was always great because, you know, Trump said make America great again.

That's right, I do remember that.

And I just thought to myself, what is your life? Like, do you have a real life? If you think that I would waste one sentence, one breath towards an enemy when my father—

yeah, the funeral.

At the funeral, it's like, I like, are you kidding me? You're trying to dunk on political— it's It was to me so crass. And so, yeah, it's the arrogance that comes, that goes with it when we know you've worked for nothing in your life and you have had everything handed to you and you actually don't have any moral principle outside of more war, more war, more war.

Yeah.

And the amount of people who are dying, it's the way these people speak to us. And I'm saying left and right, the way they speak to us when they call us evil, psychopathic. They—

when we're worried about innocent people getting killed like that, at the heart of it, is that we find it immoral, just like I did on October 7th. I find it immoral when civilians are targeted and killed.

Mm-hmm.

So I was not ever one of those people who cheered on what happened on October 7th. Never. I never would. That goes against who I am as a human being. I value human life, and I don't think civilians should be targeted for any reason. Anytime they are, the person doing the targeting, the group doing the targeting is in the wrong, period.

That's it.

So when you now have upward of 75,000 people killed in Gaza and you mention that to an Israel firster or Zionist, and they respond to you immediately by saying, what about October 7th? What that communicates to me is you do have a problem with civilian lives being lost on a particular side, but civilian lives mean nothing to you. At first I thought when it comes to the Palestinians, but no, I feel like human life doesn't matter to them at all unless we're talking about a Jewish Zionist. Because if you're a Jewish person like Dave Smith, for instance, they'll kill you too.

They could care less.

But you're not a Zionist? Oh, they could, they couldn't care less.

You're right.

They could not care less. And I just find that so immoral, but they turn around and they try to make us look like we're the immoral ones because we have a problem and we're speaking out about this.

That's exactly right. And you, you understand even within the Jewish population. And that's why I've done so much. I've made such an effort over the last year to wake up Jewish Americans to this, right? Because I view them as you were brainwashed. This is what you think. I mean, this is the whole reason they started the program of Birthright. And when the ADL guy got caught, like, on a private call saying that, like, we need to kind of come up with something, we're losing Gen Z, we got to do like we did when we established that program for Birthright. And this is why Max Blumenthal has done such incredible work, because he went on Birthright and he spoke about that experience. They're brainwashing them so young, right? We are all subject to brainwashing. That is the most important thing that I think I have come out of learning as like, how did I get brainwashed? I thought the same thing. I was watching the Holocaust movies. All of that is a part of your growing up, your brainwashing experience, what you're learning in the classroom, your who is the victim, you know, and who do you have to defend, who is being oppressed.

And so there's this sort of trigger mechanism that is within all of us. It's buried within us from the time that we're kids and we don't realize it because we're just taking in so much media. We're taking in, we're listening to our teachers and then we're like, October 7th happens and then they go, remember all that stuff? Like, this is now— you have to understand what they're going to do next. Think about what happened. You don't want another Holocaust.

It's like priming you to be accepting of something that just goes against your core principles.

And for Jewish Americans, too. So you can understand why they reacted the way that they did right away.

Of course. Yeah.

They're going to get that 20 times worse. It's going to be your stories about your grandma and your book. You go to temple, you go to, you know, you're— I mean, you go to synagogue. And you're gonna have those presets. And then it went too far, and a lot of them snapped out of it. And now I get Jewish people emailing me, totally like, I don't know what this is, I don't know why I'm being told I have to defend Jeffrey Epstein, I don't know why. I mean, it's wild. I have to defend BibiNet and Yahoo.

So can we just address how brazenly obvious, like, okay, when every pro-Israel media figure comes out at the same time and basically says, oh, there's no big deal with the Epstein files, they shouldn't be released. You're giving it away.

Mm-hmm.

Like you're giving it away. Mm-hmm. Like you guys are too obvious.

Mm-hmm.

And, and what I'm wondering is, was the propaganda always this bad? Or is it that we're just a lot more awake now because there's diversified independent media, people are kind of breaking out of their bubble, so it's harder to lie to us. So they're like propaganda muscle has atrophied to some extent.

So well said, right? I think it's the latter. Absolutely. Yeah, I think we are more awake than we've ever been. There's independent media, uh, and it's also like you said earlier, they can't help themselves. So the entire strategy of The Daily Wire trying to destroy me actually woke a lot of people up. It's like, my goodness, Candace was going around Judeo-Christian, doing all the things. She worked at PragerU. You want me to believe that overnight Candace Owens became an anti-Semite? For real though, I know she was working with, uh, you know, Ben Shapiro and Marissa Stray and Dennis Prager, and they're like, yeah, no, it's crazy how it happened. She fell and bumped her head and now she's Adolf Hitler. And that— it's the whiplash. It's too fast.

Yeah.

People go, okay, you had me. Maybe you had me at Nick Fuentes. You know, this is like— people go, okay, he was done early. He's 18. We didn't know who he was. But they just start moving and then you're going, it's Candace Owens. Oh no, Tucker Carlson bumped his head and became Adolf Hitler. It becomes way too— and then you go, okay, let me go back and really see what's happening.

Totally. Because I mean, look, Nick Fuentes' rhetoric is nowhere close to Tucker Carlson's rhetoric. Not nowhere close to it.

They're all in the same box, right?

But they're lumped together. And to me, this isn't really about hatred toward Jewish people, which I find immoral, just like I would find hatred toward Muslims or hatred toward Christians. Like hating any group of people simply based on their identity is wrong.

I've always been against that. Yeah.

But, um, But yeah, I just, it just seems like I forgot where I was going with that. Yeah. A lot of people, I like, I think they were just kind of part of this algorithmic bubble where they're only exposed to one thing. And when it came to the Muslim population, I think that the dehumanization was seen in the media across the board. And that brainwashing worked for a really long time. I mean, it definitely convinced Americans to support wars that we shouldn't have supported.

Going back to those presets when we're in our youth, 9/11.

Yep.

It was so raw. It was so scary. They, the way they made us stand up at 9/11 every day, the time in school, moment of silence for what the Muslims did to us. Think about like, that's kind of— so I was just like, Muslims, like, this is just how they live. This is what they do. And didn't, didn't register to me as Islamophobia. I just thought I'm educated. It's a token of your education to understand how despicable Muslims are.

I remember that. I remember that so well. I remember the unfair attacks against Muslims. By the way, I mean, there are different Muslim beliefs like sects and whatever, but everything was just lumped together. Muslims bad. And this is going to be used as a justification for us to enrich defense contractors. They profit off war. Right now, you know, there's a town in Alabama where they make, um, rockets and military weaponry, and it's booming all of a sudden because of the war against Iran. And, um, it's funny listening to an interview of like one of the workers there because They're able to like compartmentalize the economic boom they're experiencing from what it's feeding into.

Mm-hmm.

And so when you think about how people's livelihoods get wrapped up into questions of peace and war, when you consider the fact that our, our media apparatus, especially when it comes to legacy media or corporate media, is very much part of the propaganda campaigns to, in my opinion, just trick Americans into supporting things that actually work against their own interests. All of that stuff started to kind of get chipped away at by independent media and people being willing to honestly critique their own side. There aren't a lot of people in the media who are willing to do that, just a handful that I can think of. But I think that woke a lot of people up. I really did. I really do think it did.

And the whiplash of, oh, Tucker Carlson was fine for Fox News and CNN and everything, and then all of a sudden, no, Tucker Carlson, very, very bad. You can't listen to it. But we're starting to notice this pattern that it's the same issue that suddenly gets these people who are welcomed, loved by the mainstream, adored by the mainstream, and then suddenly thrust to the side and having not just their livelihoods impacted, but also our families. I was watching this attack on your husband. Like, my husband's being attacked, your husband's being attacked.

Yep.

And by the way, kudos for you for just coming back. Thank you. Yes, it is my husband. He's hot. I'm glad you found him. I mean, right, right. He's hot. Thank you. But what actually sits at the center of that? Let's now try to get and harass Anna Kasparian's husband. What, why do you think that that became now their, their prime motivator?

Well, because I'm, I don't wanna say I'm unbreakable, but I am kind of unbreakable. Like I'm the kind of person who does not respond well to others telling me what I can and can't think or what I can and can't say. So I might fall prey to brainwashing and propaganda. We're all susceptible to that. However, when you're straight up telling me you're not allowed to think that, you're not allowed to say that, I just get very irritable and I double down. It's like not the way to persuade me to think otherwise. Mm-hmm.

Right.

And so, I mean, they've done some damage to me financially. I got fired from a job that I really, like a side job where I was doing investigative reporting, um, on California-based stories because there's a lot going down in California that I think people need to be aware about to make smarter decisions when they vote. So even though that was one of the more difficult jobs, like I was writing features, like 2,000-word pieces that were like original reporting. It was hard. It was very time-consuming, but I loved that job so much. They took it from me. I guess there was one board member at the company that didn't like my commentary. I called Jonathan Conriquez, who's an IDF propagandist. He's usually on like Piers Morgan's show and whatever. I was on with him and I called him a terrorist because he's a terrorist. And, um, that was it. Like, that was what got me fired.

Whatever.

But I'll take it. I'm, I wanna be free. I don't wanna work for some, this is not a news organization if you guys are gonna censor people, uh, on what they can and can't say on what's going down in the Middle East right now. So, okay, fine. I'm, you took that from me. But once they realized that like taking things away from me wasn't working, once they realized like TYT is not gonna fire her. They're like, okay, what else can we do? And they immediately move on to collective punishment. They are big believers in the ideology of collective punishment. So we're going to go after her family. We're going to go after her husband, who's a freaking PE teacher, who is not political. By the way, after they did go after him, this is the second time. First time they did it, suddenly my husband's asking me questions about what's happening in Gaza. Suddenly he's, he's listening to my show. He's, and I'm like, oh, you never, you know, cuz he's not a political person at all. I'm like, why are you asking me questions suddenly? Why are you listening to the show regularly? He's like, cuz they made me want to know what's going on.

Exactly.

You know what I'm saying? So like their efforts in attacking people, intimidating people, censoring people is so counterproductive, but they're too stupid to realize it.

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That's amazing.

There's this whole thread where Laura Loomer was going after, like, my lawyers, and she's like, this side— okay, okay, so are you BDS now? Like, you know what I mean? Are you saying, like, that I should not work in any capacity with Zionists? That, that's literally— I mean, yeah, boycott, divest, and sanction. So I'm turning Zionists into promoters of BDS, which is incredible. They don't even— like I said, there's no thought process. It's just attack, attack, attack, attack. It's like, I You have to spend money with a lawyer, okay? There are millions of lawyers. They're all over. They're a dime a dozen over here. If you want to attack a lawyer for getting paid, you're doing the work of actually what people think people should boycott, divest away from Zionists in general. And so I'm like, okay, this is not a big deal to me. But there is a desperation. There's something right now that feels very fragile. They're getting so increasingly desperate.

Like, they are.

We're going after people's husbands. We're going after people's lawyers. We will try to just harass you. Obviously not working at all.

It's not—

I'm like you, I just dig my feet in even more, and I'm like, let's suit up for battle, let's do this thing. I am not going to be broken by this. You guys have tried so much. But right now, I mean, the radical nature of Trump's tweets right now—

oh my gosh, they're unhinged.

And I used to enjoy— they used to be pithy, one sentence, and hit at some modicum of truth. Like, only Rosie O'Donnell, that's just funny to people because it's like he's saying basically Rosie O'Donnell. This is not that. This is like the rantings of a madman. I don't have time to read all of this. And at its core, it's just he's being instructed to attack people who don't support Israel.

It's crazy. It's absolutely insane.

What are we getting close to?

Yeah.

That's my question. What are we getting close to if they don't feel like they're in control right now? They feel like an animal backed into a corner that's fighting and just lashing.

Well, it's funny because they are in control of the levers of power. Right? And that's definitely scary. I mean, don't get me wrong. I don't want to minimize that, but at the same time, they are no longer in control of the narrative. And Americans are waking up to just how much our government has been, I mean, for lack of a better word, infiltrated by people who, uh, are much more concerned with foreign policy that benefits Israel above and beyond, you know, what's better for the American people. This war against Iran doesn't benefit us in any way, shape, or form. And we went into it with no strategy, no plan, no support for the people. Exactly. No support for, I mean, Trump never even thought he needed to make his case to the American people. So we went into it with it being an incredibly unpopular war. The fact that he didn't even consider that Iran would take control of the Strait of Hormuz, thus creating a lot of economic pain for the globe. Like, think about all, all of our allies right now, longtime allies who are so furious with us. You know, Germany recently came out and had some, you know, strong words against the United States.

Um, India has been irritated with us because of first Trump's, uh, Liberation Day tariffs, which also seemed pretty ham-handed. And I'm saying that as someone who's supportive of targeted tariffs and think, you know, they can work in bringing some jobs back to the United States. But the way he did it made a lot of enemies. Again, I go back to the issue of our, you know, military being weakened because we've given so many weapons away. We've used so many weapons and we've depleted 80% of our, uh, missile interceptors. I just feel for the first time that we are not safe. But the thing that gives me a little bit of relief is knowing that people on the left and the right are waking up to it. You know, like that gives me hope. If, if it weren't for that, honestly, I would definitely be 100% blackpilled, I would be a total doomer, and I would see no hope for the future. But the people are waking up.

Right.

And so the fact that the individuals you're referring to who are backed into a corner don't have control of the narrative, that's why they're backed into the corner.

Mm-hmm.

And they don't know what to do. So they're lashing out and attacking family members, but it's only helping our cause when they do that because people see it and they're just like, ew, this is disgusting behavior. Why are you going after a PE teacher?

Mm-hmm.

Who never said anything about Israel at all. You know, and anything I've said about Israel is not antisemitic. Israel has carried out a genocide, continues to carry out a genocide in Gaza. Uh, they were occupying 53% of the territory. Now they're occupying 64%. Just last night, I read an article about how they quietly redrew the map of the area of Gaza that they're going to occupy. So from 53% to 64%, where are all those Palestinians going to go? How many, uh, refugee crises have we experienced because Israel wants to pursue its border expansion project? And so when I hear people like that Tommy Robinson guy whining about like, oh, the Islamification of the UK, these Muslims are so bad and so dangerous. You are supportive of Israel. So unless you wake up and tell the truth about what's actually happening and what's causing these mass migration events, how about you shut up?

I always say that. I'm like, and where do you think these migrants are coming from? Do you think they wanted to be here or are they being forced out of their homes? And so they don't, they can't connect. Connect the dot there.

Yeah.

It's, oh, we have a Muslim problem. But no, we actually, we have an Israel never-ending war problem.

Exactly.

And it's then of course these people have to go somewhere if we're just gonna take their land.

Look at Lebanon now.

Yeah.

They're like, yeah, we're just gonna take southern Lebanon. And then by the way, they've begun evacuating villages north of the Litani River, meaning, oh no, it's not just southern Lebanon. And so when people fearmonger about groups like Hezbollah, for instance, which is supported by Iran, You gotta understand why Hezbollah exists in the first place. Hezbollah formed in the 1980s after Israel invaded southern Lebanon.

Mm-hmm.

So like, let me ask our red-blooded Americans right now, if Mexico invaded, you know, one of our southern border country, uh, states, are, are we just gonna sit back and take it or is there gonna be a resistance group right now? We have a military, we have a government that would prevent that from happening. But let's say a foreign country turned our government into a puppet of theirs and they cared less about protecting the American people and our territory, which I think is the case in Lebanon. There would be a resistance group.

Of course there would be a resistance group.

100%.

Yeah. Yeah. I always said to people, it's like they took their homes. They just woke up one day and said, I don't care if you've lived here for centuries, you just got to go. Yes. We're now giving your land and you're not going to get any money. Like you're at gunpoint. You just got to leave your house.

I can't imagine what that's like.

It's weird to me that people don't understand that if you keep empowering something that is that immoral, right? Something that believes that genocide is their right, that it's their birthright to mass murder children who don't see you as having a human soul. How do you not comprehend that that chicken will eventually come home to roost?

100%. I mean, I think Christians are waking up to it because of the abuse Christians are dealing with in Lebanon, in Jerusalem. You know, it's interesting because after World War I, um, because of the Armenian genocide that was carried out by the Ottoman Empire, Ottoman Turks, Armenians became, you know, they fled. Many went to Syria. They were forced to do a death march, as my great-grandmother was, and she survived it, but my great-grandfather didn't. This is on my dad's side. They killed him. And so she had to do that death march that she survived with her children in tow, including my grandfather. I didn't know this until very recently. My last name wouldn't have been Kasparian. Kasparian is the last name of the man who took my great-grandmother and grandfather in and, you know, married her and whatever. So I would've had a completely different last name. This made me much more curious about like my ancestry and everything. And, uh, on my mom's side, they fled to Palestine. Okay, so my, my grandmother's birth certificate said Haifa, Palestine. And so I started doing some research into that because, uh, she was born in 1937 in Haifa.

In 1947, a year before the Nakba happened, um, basically the Soviet Union was sending ships to what is now Israel, uh, to take Armenians back to the homeland because, well, there were these terrorist groups that were carrying out terror attacks against the Palestinians and Christians, because Armenians are overwhelmingly Christian, right? And so, uh, at that time, what my research, uh, showed me was that the Irgun, which is one of the three terrorist groups that formed Israel, was attacking the, you know, local communities there in Haifa, doing bombings and all sorts of crazy things. So like, they fled genocide, went to Haifa, and then have had to flee again. But luckily, they were able to go back to their homeland at that time, and they went back to Armenia, and that's where my mom was born.

And it's crazy because those terrorist groups, like, they then came to the United States, became— their children became executives, politicians. Like, these are what we are dealing with in media are the sons and the daughters of those terrorists. Make no mistake. I mean, this is crazy.

Yeah.

The Emanuel family being one of them. Rahm Emanuel, Ari Emanuel. How much power does that family have?

Do not trust that man. But Democrats, I'm going to look right into the camera right now. Do not trust him. He's like like he's putting out statements right now about like, oh, we should really rethink our support to Israel. He's full of crap. Okay, yeah, he was born in the IDF. Like, no, don't trust him. Democrats need to distance themselves from these people. Like, they're not healthy for us.

To be honest, I just think at the top it's all the same. I don't— I think the Epstein files had everyone in it. I truly— I think they have been that, that sort of global arms trafficking, human sex trafficking, Syndicate has— is running America and has been running America for a long time. Obviously Epstein, you know, his side gig was blackmail, but people forget that former Mossad agents testified that he was brought in for the arms deal for the Iran-Contra scandal.

Yes, yes. Okay, so you know—

oh, I am— no, so deep on the Epstein stuff, and I'm going, oh, okay, so this is what I think is kind of happening in America, is a lot of these people have a lot to do with trafficking.

Like, well, do you read DropSite News by any chance?

No.

Okay, you will love of it because Dropsite News, when first of all, there was a leak of the former Israeli Prime Minister's email, and so they started doing reporting on that. And then the Epstein files that were released, they specifically started to look into what kind of ties Epstein had with Israel. And it went beyond blackmailing our politicians and powerful people on behalf of Israel, right? Mm-hmm. He was making all sorts of international deals. On behalf of Israel, including the arms deals you're referring to, you know, cyber weapons, things like that. Why do you think the UAE has such a friendly relationship with Israel?

Weapons was one. And I keep trying to tell people that on my podcast. I'm like, guys, like, this is not— so when I'm like looking into things and there's so much trafficking connections, I'm like, is this— are we looking at the Epstein network? Is that what's being protected? And I don't know what your take is on why Trump is protecting that.

I think they have blackmail on him. I don't know. I don't know how deep it goes. I also think just keeping it real, Trump is a very corrupt person. I mean, he loves money, and I think it's easy to buy him. I think it's— I think he's exceedingly easy to corrupt.

So, and this is my opinion, so I have no proof of this, but when I look at the broader Epstein picture, one of the things that Epstein was always involved in was where women could be trafficked to. So Victoria's Secret, uh, the Guy Jean-Luc Brunel was his partner in Paris for like the modeling firm who ended up killing himself in prison, killing himself and hung— hang him— hanged himself in prison, just like Epstein. Exactly. And so he was constantly plugged into all of these modeling firms, and also pageantry falls into that category. And that was when— why was Trump running, you know, the pageantry? Like, is that how he knows Epstein world? Is that— does it go back that deep? Did, um, he do a deal with Epstein and look the other way like a lot of these other people did? When these Eastern European women were coming in? Those are the questions that I have because it doesn't make sense otherwise. Do I think he's also protecting his donors? Absolutely.

Totally.

Do I think Trump is his own man? Obviously not. Miriam Adelson did a deal with him, purchased out, I mean, she kind of outright purchased the White House.

I mean, he said it himself. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's, that's the thing that I guess I appreciate about Trump, if you wanna put it that way. I mean, I don't know if it's due to lack of sophistication or if it's just that he can't help himself, but he just says it. He just says it. And so I choose to believe him when he says that, you know, Miriam Adelson loves Israel more than the United States, that she's got a lot of money, that she, you know, is a big donor. Like, I mean, he's communicating to us, listen, I'm doing what I'm doing because she bought me.

But that's also, by the way, what I think is wrong with Kash Patel. He's from Las Vegas. Las Vegas was, is a gambling empire. That's it. They own Vegas. So when I see people coming out of Vegas My immediate assumption is, well, you're already— if you made it up the chain in Vegas, you've already done some deals, allegedly. Yeah, my opinion. But when I was like, Cash Patel's from Las Vegas, there's no— of course, obviously he's corrupt. You don't get ahead in Las Vegas because you're like a good guy.

Like, his behavior makes that obvious, right? What do you think about the reporting about his, like, alcohol use? Do you think that's like an attempt to smear him so it's easier to get rid of him?

I think, I think he, he drinks. I think it's very stupid for someone like The Atlantic to publish that. It's just, I mean, they're, they're too well known to be like, I'm just going to publish a piece. It's way too specific. And his reaction, yeah, he's so vociferous about it. It was like too much. And he just kind of strikes me as— when I was reading some of those stories, I was like, they're way too specific. And I do know that people don't like him, so they would leak those sorts of stories, right? If The Atlantic is— if their response is, we are prepared to defend ourselves in court, yeah, then they have something. It's the same way where everyone is, sue Candace, sue Candace. I have been meticulous about making sure that I am saving every source, every conversation. I don't take an unnecessary risk. I don't want to be sued and then proven an idiot by being like, oh, well, she was just coming up with fantasy and nothing was driving this. So, of course, they had— and they are— and they are not independent. They have people that they have to rely upon.

They have to have those legal teams. They did not publish that article and put a target on their back from the FBI director on the basis of just wanting to like LOL publish. That's my read on the situation.

Yeah.

And he is erratic. There's something about him that feels erratic. And even the tweet, the weird tweet about my girlfriend's a country music sensation, you got to be a couple of cocktails in, right? I mean, I don't think—

I hope—

I think that actually helps him. Actually, I don't think it's defamation. I think that is the best case scenario. It's like, oh, I was just a few cocktails in.

Yeah, that's why I tweeted it.

Because if you did it sober Then I have some bigger questions, you know, it's about your competence.

I mean, the, the biggest thing for me was, um, you like to get drunk in DC around a bunch of these people that like I wouldn't wanna be in a room with, to be honest with you. Like I don't wanna spend my free time with these people at all. But then on top of that, to make yourself vulnerable by getting wasted, like that's so crazy.

The soccer, I mean the hockey thing.

Crazy. I just— crazy, crazy. And people defended him on that, like, oh, he's celebrating, US won, like, whatever. And let's— okay, fine, whatever. But now in retrospect, when you realize that he clearly has a drinking problem, I think that was very strange.

It's just, you can celebrate, you can high-five, but it was just like the whole— it just felt very frat boy about it.

It was very frat boy with the backdrop of how poorly he's doing his job. I mean, I, I, one thing that really stood out to me was the guy who first attempted to assassinate Donald Trump. I'm forgetting his name right now. I don't know why, but, um, those were 3 assassination attempts in. Yeah.

I think his name was Matthew Crooks. Crooks. There we go. Yes.

Perfect. Okay. Matthew Crooks. So Tucker did this really great special on the lack of investigation into that and how much we were lied to by our FBI. Like the fact that the FBI told us that, oh, there's no online trail of this guy. And it turns out, no, he was actually pretty active online. Why did you lie to us about it? And then he played a video of Kash Patel testifying about it in front of a congressional committee. And Patel was like, I can't disclose that information because there's a trial. Except there isn't a trial. Crooks is dead. So, you know, like, we want to learn more about his motives. Like, where is he from? How did this happen? What were, like, what were the security failures? How come no one in the Secret Service got fired over this? This, we're not getting any answers. So I look at our government, I'm just like, this is all kabuki theater and these people don't represent us. They don't care about our safety. They don't care about our country. They don't care about the injustices that get carried out against, you know, some of the biggest public figures in the country.

Mm-hmm.

So like, how the hell am I supposed to trust this government? And it makes me increasingly angry, to be honest with you, when you see how much of our money —how much of our earnings goes toward a government that squanders it.

I would, I would push back on your point that Kash Patel isn't doing his job. I think he is.

Interesting.

I think that is his job, and that is why he is in there. They put him in there and they tell him what to do, and it is to look the other way and to come up with excuses. I think he is executing his job perfectly. Well, he hasn't been fired yet, so his job is being executed perfectly. His job is to protect the elite. And shame on us for thinking that his job is to make sure justice is served. And he paid all that lip service— if I get in there day one, here's what's going to happen. None of that's happened because he went in there in the same way that Trump went in there. I don't know who their boss is. Uh, I actually think both of them have the same boss, if I'm being frank. Yeah, uh, they both answer to Vegas and Tel Aviv. But it's clear to me that he is doing a great job for the people that he actually works for. And I obviously have a lot of resentment, particularly for Ash Patel, because of the Charlie Kirk situation, looking at what he has done, the fact that he won't hand over the documents and the theater of that, the theater of how they came out.

And, uh, oh gosh, it makes me so sick. You have no idea how sick it all makes me to reflect upon just the fact that Charlie empowered these people like that. Like, it makes me sick.

Well, I mean, look, I— so I started watching— I, I had never watched your show until after he was assassinated, because I'm like, there, there's something off, and she knew him better than anyone else in the media. So let me see what she's got. But I've got so much going on, and it was hard to follow your, like, you know, your investigation because there were so many moving parts, and I gotta produce a show. And so I just kind of like dropped off a little bit. But what were you saying about Kash Patel's refusal to hand over documents?

I don't know about that. So the trial, I'm obviously on top of it because they I, I really do think that what they're so angry about right now, more broadly speaking, is that we're staying focused on things. We are designed to be an ADHD culture. That's true. Charlie died yesterday. I forgive him. Okay, everybody move on. We're all good. Well, let's move on. She's moved on. Everyone forget about it. Uh, Epstein files.

Oh, who are we talking about?

The Epstein files. Okay, good. Let's move on. Let's move on. Okay, Trump says it's good and you're MAGA, right? Here's some red meat. You're MAGA. Trump said it.

Here's Lancer the King.

Yeah. And we're not doing that. We're not moving. We're not doing that. And with this, I was like, I am not moving on from this. And so— Midterms. Exactly. We've signed up. We're getting the documents, obviously. But the midterms. And in this particular case, so they— obviously, I sat down with Erica and she explained to me they were sort of moving toward this May date, or where he— he hasn't even entered into plea yet, to be clear. And so in May, they're supposed to have this hearing. And there's limited discovery in that timeframe because one of the questions I asked Erica sincerely was, you're communicating to the public that you believe they have the right guy. So my assumption when she was saying that to Barry Weiss was that obviously she has access to more information than we have. Like, as you know, she's involved in the case, she's listed as a victim on the case, like she can see stuff that we can't see. Maybe it's literally a clear video of Tyler Robinson coming out and shooting Charlie. Like, open to that. And then when I sat down with her, she was like, oh no, I haven't— I don't have anything more than the public has because we're— now what happens is we have to move towards this May date and the Um, SBI, which is the, uh, Bureau of Investigations in Utah, is the state investigations in Utah.

They're gonna go now find the— all this evidence that Tyler Robinson did it. And Tyler Robinson— then they present that to Tyler Robinson's team, and they then build their sort of defense leading to this May date. Well, it turns out that Tyler Robinson's team files a document and says we need to move the state because they— we have been asking for Kash Patel, who should not even be involved in this case, mind you, it's a state case, to release the information to us, to give us these documents, to his defense, to his defense. So like, they're like, they haven't even given it to Utah, forget SBI, they haven't given it to the SBI, the defense doesn't have it. And they're like, how are we going to have this hearing when they're going to get up there and essentially put on a show trial and say, your honor, look at these messages, where they're like, we don't even know those messages are real, that That's crazy. So imagine you're, you're— we're moving toward this date and all they have is what Kash Patel told us in the first 48 hours, but they will not give them the discovery on that.

They won't give them— so like, if I say Anna texted me and said she did it, and that they want to say that, uh, blah blah blah, she hasn't even been able— the defense has not even been able to access Tyler Robinson's phone. They haven't been able to see the gun, nothing. Wow. And what's holding that up?

That is weird. And also, what's up with them arbitrary May date, right? Yeah, they—

so, and that was the thing, they fought back immediately because they were like, we want to make sure that like we get the discovery that we're asking for. And the judge was like, oh, it'll be fine, don't worry about it. By then in May, if we need to bump it, we will. And they all kind of agreed to that. And now that May is upon us, um, Erica's team— because she's a listed victim, so when I say Erica's team, I mean literally she's a victim in this case— is fighting them. They're like, no, we want to keep the May date. And I'm like, so why would you want to keep the May date? And I've and I instantly alerted the public to that. I'm like, they are not giving them— they have no— we have no idea. These shady messages, did Kash Patel, uh, after a few beers type them up? We don't know. We can't say no.

That's so weird. You know what, so when it comes to Erica's behavior, like, I will admit, like, some of her behavior is odd, right? And off-putting. And I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, and I wonder if, you know, her insistence that it's Tyler Robinson and nothing else is shady and like, we need to pursue this prosecution. It's definitely him. I wonder if it's because, you know, when a, a family member of yours gets murdered or killed or harmed in some way, usually the family members want closure so badly that they, as soon as there's a suspect, they want that suspect to be the guilty one. Mm-hmm. And they just go for it full force. And maybe that's what's, you know, informing her decisions to kind of pursue it the way that she's pursuing it. I don't know, but I will say this, I actually, I don't know how it would behave, to be honest. Like, I just think about how much I love my husband and I, I, I don't think anyone would see me for a few years. Like, I just would not be able to go public. I wouldn't be able to have the strength to even talk in public about anything.

And so that stood out to me about her. But also she's a different person than me. So I, I just, people, people do grieve differently. I just know that the case itself has a few elements to it that raise some eyebrows. Everyone in the media that's critical of you is like so vociferous that it kind of gave me the idea that like the general public isn't with you until I told, um, female family members of mine that I'm doing your show and they're just like, oh my God, I love Candus. I watch her every day. And I'm like, I'm like, really, you're not mad at her because of the whole Erica thing? They're like, no, no. And I'm like, really? Like, I couldn't believe it. So yeah, clearly what you're seeing is something— I mean, the numbers in your show, like, it's very highly viewed, okay? So obviously the people agree with you that there's something off, and I agree with you that there's something off. I just don't know what it is.

Yeah, and I think that what you're describing is the process that we all went through, because you don't want to even go down that route. You're like, maybe it's this. Maybe in my head I was like, maybe she's being blackmailed. Maybe she's scared they're gonna kill her. Maybe like, like you said, she just wants a quick conclusion to all of this. Maybe she's still in shell shock and is actually not controlling anything at Turning Point, was my initial suspicion. And just on paper she's CEO, but she's actually just home crying every day. And like behind the scenes, like, you know, yeah, Justin, I went through that whole thing. And for me, I never wanted to arrive at Erica being suspicious. I didn't abstain from the, like, "Oh, she's wearing hot pants with JD Vance." None of that matters to me. Yeah. Because I don't think people understand, I needed it as a part of my grieving process not to accept that plausibility. Because then, for me, beyond just having lost Charlie and having to wake up to— that I then had to wake up to the idea that Trump betrayed him in a way, and Cash Patel, everyone is betraying him and not wanting, seeking more investigation.

What I, I had to go through to pursue that, for it was, I had to grieve again, right? Because I knew how much Charlie wanted love. Like, I have these messages, like, I was helping Charlie draft text messages and what should I say. So I had to grieve again and go, okay, I need to like really just follow the facts here. And that's all I've done. And, um, it's landed me at she's remarkably suspicious, not because of the way she dresses, not because of whether or not she's crying enough. All of that kind of paints a picture that makes people uncomfortable. But just objective lies, objective lies that I can't comprehend. Why would you lie and tell the public? And I think for me, the most explosive one that no one wants to, uh, address— by calling me a monster— why would you lie and say that the surgeon told you, or told Andrew, that he had a Superman neck and all this stuff that objectively did not come from the surgeon? It came from Erica. And why would you lie and tell me that Andrew went rogue and sent that message when you did it with him?

I can't— how did you find that out? Um, a source, uh, you know, a source, uh, and I trust the source. And obviously that's a strong statement to make. And so when Erica first said to me, I also didn't believe her, right? So when she said, oh, I said, what's the Superman neck? And she said, oh well, you know, Andrew went rogue. And then I said, the surgeon went rogue though and talked to— the surgeon violated HIPAA and Andrew went, yeah, that's a good— and beyond having the conversation, Andrew then tweeted without your permission. Like, that's lot to have had to happen. I don't believe that the surgeon violated HIPAA and spoke to Andrew without your permission. And I said that to her face. I said, it's a tough one for me, but okay. And then I got the information that no, Erica actually called the surgeon. It's a three-way call, and she wanted to know what to tell the public about why the bullet didn't go through. And that Superman neck thing came from her. So yep, the public was told from Andrew's tweet. Crazy. So I'm like, I can't— somebody just defend it.

Somebody just tell me why that shouldn't completely unnerved me. Donors— the— another huge one where, like, these are my two biggest things. Donors saying that that video that— or hasn't existed yet— the AI, alleged AI, of Charlie saying, I appoint Erica to be the CEO. Erica told me that he said that at an Aspen event. I was like, okay, great. Well, the Aspen people who were at the event said that never happened. What? These are the Turning Point USA donors who have contacted me and said, Candace, that is AI. He did not say that. What? What? Now they have alleged that they have the video of that. Why do they only play the audio? And then when I said, hey guys, um, this is not normal, it doesn't actually really sound like Charlie, the cadence is somewhat off, and I said, okay, so just drop the video so we can all put this to bed. Not only that, people at Turning Point told me that he never said that at this event. Okay, so what am I left to do? I— you guys mentioned this to the public. You said that Charlie, 2 weeks before, I guess, had done a complete 180 on his entire life's perspective that women should stay home and raise the children and not be CEOs.

And suddenly he was like, you know what, actually not only should women do it, but single women should do it. Widows should do it. And the kids should just be raised by the nanny and they, they should work 80-hour weeks.

That does seem uncharacteristic of Charlie Kirk. It's completely uncharacteristic of everything he's ever said. In fact, one of the last conversations I had with him was at the Democratic National Convention. And, um, look, I always appreciated the fact that he was down to debate, right? Yes. And that he didn't ever let it get dirty. Mm-hmm. Like, And so I appreciated that. And so we started debating about the role of women and he basically said, because I don't have children, I don't plan on having children. It's just a decision that me and my husband made together. And honestly, I don't think that I have the right temperament to be a mom in today's society because I will definitely kill people if they come anywhere. Like what they're doing to my husband right now. If they tried to like harm my kids. Prison. I, yeah, I would go to prison. I'd make myself at home. 100%. I don't give a damn. That's how I am. That's me. I'm like fiercely loyal and defensive of my family. But anyway, Um, he told me, well, you know, if you don't have kids, you don't really have a stake in the future of this country.

And I just remember being very offended by that because I love this country so much and I definitely do have a stake in the future. Like I have young, you know, nieces and nephews that I love to death, but even if I didn't, I love the people of this country. Like I want it to succeed. And so, and so in that conversation, he like really reiterated what he believes the role of women should be. So then And after he gets assassinated and you don't really question it at first, 'cause you don't wanna be that guy. Mm-hmm. Or that person who's just like, I don't know, that sounds a little shady and weird. And you go along to get along. That's a good example of a story where you go along to get along. But yeah, there was this feeling within me where it's like, well, maybe he was willing to go against his beliefs or his values because he wants to make sure that the business falls in the hands of a family member. Right? Maybe that's why. I do find it strange. I do.

But it goes against common sense because not only— the story we're being told is like, specifically, he said, "If anything ever happens to me," meaning like, "If I get killed, I want my wife to be the next person that gets into the line of fire while my kids are at home." Like, what? Like, no.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Actually, your instinct is then, "No, shut this down. You go and move and stay away from politics forever and protect our children." So it defies common sense. And I know what Charlie's perspectives were, obviously, the life that he wanted and what he said. Said every time anybody asked him on his podcast. I mean, we have a decade of Charlie saying what he— what his perspective was on how women should stay home and there's no value in becoming a CEO. And then suddenly it's whiplash and we're told actually right before he died he just had this amazing 180, that nobody— it was a, you know, private donor event, and now the donors are saying it didn't happen and that that is AI. Okay, wow, that's a very big claim that I am making, right? And I'm not making that claim, by the way, the donors and they're contacting me and saying this never happened because they couldn't believe it. Because they said they were watching my podcast, and when they had heard it initially when Erica told the story to Megyn Kelly, they thought, oh, it must have been at the Hamptons or whatever it was.

And then when I said it was Aspen, they were shocked. Wow. This absolutely did not happen. So if I'm lying about that, wouldn't you, if you're Andrew Colvett, instantly say, oh, here's the video, Candace? Like, I don't know, maybe the donor forgot, but here it is. And now we're suddenly going, why didn't they drop the video? Yeah, like they had her walk out to the audio. That would have been a very powerful— could you imagine? Yeah, you have a video of Charlie on stage at an event and he says like, I want Erica Kirk, I appoint Erica Kirk to be the CEO, right? Like people would have had not had a dry eye in the place. We would have— I think it would have like even more made people rally around her and said like, okay, I don't love it, but like it is— it was like Charlie's dying wish. Yeah. And instead Blake Neff says we're never dropping the video. That's so weird. It's bonkers. And so I have— there are real things that are compelling me to continue this pursuit. I'm not interested in the vanity of, like, you know, her outfits or her makeup.

And you're under tremendous fire right now.

I mean, it's— I can't even imagine. Like, people in the media are really going at it, like, just trying to, you know, attack you for being cruel and, and, you know, going after Erica and Like, I do think that they put words in your mouth sometimes and say things that you didn't actually say. But, you know, the other thing that— I mean, look, you tend to provide receipts when you have them, right? And so everyone was denying what you were saying about the very real pressure campaign that Charlie was undergoing. And when you released those text messages, I was like, oh my gosh, like, this is, this is a big deal. And I'm not saying that it's definitive that there's, like, a connection, uh, to his assassination, but just knowing what he was going through personally behind the scenes in the months leading up to his assassination is, um, information that maybe the FBI should be pursuing.

No? Or if you, if you are the wife of Charlie Kirk, mm-hmm. Um, wouldn't heads be rolling? Like, would I, I think the last people people that would ever have a platform at Turning Point USA if I was at the helm of it were the people who stressed him out, who pressured him, who— I would go to war with Josh Hammer.

Josh Hammer. If that were my husband and Josh Hammer was lying about what my husband actually believed, I would be at war with him.

Right. Till this day. Immediate partnership with all of, all of his enemies.

It's crazy. Yeah. That makes sense of that.

That's just weird. That makes sense of that. Everybody knows Ben and Charlie hate each other. Like, it's like a, just a known thing in politics. Like they just never got along. And then he's opening And it doesn't make sense to me, setting aside my personal feelings for Ben, uh, which were always in line with Charlie's because of how he behaves behind the scenes. How do you explain that? Yeah, he comes in with a million dollar check, sits in a chair, and then just says not— like, it's like, that doesn't make sense to the public because a normal reaction to a loved one is everybody who caused them grief, who put pressure on their donors, who, uh— how about me having to be the one to tell people that he, the night before, texted and said that he thought they were going to kill him. And not only that, but she explicitly denied that. Yeah, she did deny that until I clocked it and said, well, Andrew Colbet told me that he was one of the ones that received it. And then it became the story about, oh, maybe it was in Telegram. Dan Flood received a message as well.

It wasn't on Telegram, it was on iMessage. So who did— who deleted it? Or were you lying, or did somebody delete it? Okay, I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe someone took his phone in between and deleted all I don't even know why you have his phone, actually. I feel like that should be in evidence. But it becomes increasingly hard that no one is attacking the substance of what I'm presenting. They're just saying, like, how dare you? How dare you keep telling the truth about what Charlie was going through? How dare you present to the public that he did not die a Judeo-Christian and that he was angry with how he was being treated?

Well, there was one other thing that I thought was interesting, right? The audio of, uh, Tyler Robinson's grandfather. Remember, Tyler Robinson allegedly was like turned in by his family. His like family knew he was guilty and they— no, it turns out his grandfather, whose weapon he allegedly used, right, to carry out the assassination, was there at the trial defending his grandson. But we were all led to believe that the family, you know, knew that Tyler Robinson is guilty. Are not supporting him in this process.

Everything has been a lie, and I've, I've told the public that. I'm like, when this case gets going, you're gonna see that everything's a lie. And so we are left asking the question, is why are they lying? And I, I'm sorry that we're rational thinkers and we are seeing how—

I don't trust my government. Like, it's, it's that simple. I just don't trust the government. That's where we're at. So I, I feel like anyone who doesn't have a healthy dose of skepticism needs to get some. Okay.

Because Bibi's radical denials when no one was pointing the finger at him was also kind of just like weird.

Yeah. I didn't kill Charlie Kirk.

I didn't, I didn't, I didn't kill Charlie Kirk. Why, why are you saying that right now? I know that was pretty wild.

First of all, why was he on a US media tour on the day that he got assassinated? I like, I don't care what Netanyahu thinks about anything that happens in our country at all. He should be in prison for the rest of his life, uh, as a war criminal because that's what he is. Why are we hosting him on media shows here in the US to chime in on Charlie Kirk's assassination? It's bonkers. It's so crazy. Like I thought that was strange on day one.

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I mean, I have resisted, but like allowing myself to believe that there's like a wider conspiracy because you just don't wanna believe it. Mm-hmm. But I will say this, I, nothing adds up. Like this whole situation doesn't add up. And I do find it very strange that the person who wants to ask questions, and look, you might pursue threads that don't go anywhere. And I think people have a problem with that, right? They feel like, oh, you're incriminating individuals who are innocent. Like that's the big argument I hear against you. But I don't think you'd be pursuing this if you felt like there was an adequate investigation being done. And I myself agree with you that there isn't an adequate investigation being done.

And he went toe-to-toe with Bibi and he won over the Iran War. And I think that people have to understand that we're sitting here talking about how he feels nothing as he mass murders children. The way that he lies is also— there's something so psychopathic about it when he just gets on and pretends he's perpetually the victim. And he's just killing people all day, every day. I know, I know. Who is supported by the halls of Congress, who gets a standing ovation when he walks into Congress.

It's disgusting.

So if that's possible, if it's plausible for these people not to want to spit in his direction when he walks by them, uh, then we have to imagine that— would you think you'd have an issue, like, doing something to Charlie Kirk? It means nothing to these. And I'm not saying that we have evidence that Bibi Netanyahu did, but I am saying that the way in which he reacted, and me knowing how they wanted this war so badly, and that Charlie at first stood in the way of it, literally, like, debated and got Trump not to do anything more than that limited had a military operation, um, when they, when they bombed Fordow and the other was in Tans, the other nuclear sites. And Bibi was pissed. And then we fast forward, Charlie's out of the way, and what are we doing? Everything Bibi wanted to be done. So it's hard for us not to just piece together a comprehensive story here.

I mean, it is wild that the Chief of Staff, Suzy Wiles, worked on Benjamin Netanyahu's 2020 reelection campaign. She is the gatekeeper to the President of the United States. Rights. Uh, what was that guy's name? A former Trump administration official who's now like running like a propaganda arm of the Israeli government as we speak. Uh, not Corey Lewandowski. Um, he worked on, he got arrested once for like a domestic case and now he's like working for the Israeli government doing propaganda. I had no idea. Yeah. Parscale.

Brad Parscale. I do, I do know what you're talking about. That's the Clocktower Media. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Mm-hmm.

So it's, you see these connections and those connections are proven. This is not a conspiracy, they're just proven. And they kind of like rub it in our faces and it's just like, okay, well you can't be upset when people don't trust the government because of all this foreign influence and when people keep getting hurt and there are these like weird What appears to be sham investigations. I mean, another example is Donald Trump. One thing that I think everyone can agree on regardless of where you fall on the political spectrum is that Trump is unable to let a grudge go. Mm-hmm. He will hold a grudge for the rest of his life. But when it comes to his would-be assassins, we never hear him say a damn word about it. Strange. Yeah.

So strange. A lot of people now are kind of revisiting Butler and starting to talk about what happened there or what didn't happen thereafter. And it is I, I don't know. I, I, and it's a scary thing for me because I was so invested and, oh my goodness, you know, Trump was saved, there must be a broader reason for that. And I have checked myself a thousand times since the, since the Charlie investigation. I've realized what real evil we're up against. And this kind of gets into what you're saying about how you were atheist for a long time, but now, yeah, you're realizing this is bigger. They're— yeah, I mean, good versus evil, like these demons versus angels.

I mean, I, I definitely think that over the last 2 and a half years I've been able to identify the existence of evil that I didn't think existed, and that pushed me a little closer to my roots because I grew up Christian. I wouldn't say that I'm like a full-blown Christian again, but I'm I'm now realizing that there's, I've had some experiences too, which I haven't really talked about too much publicly, mostly because after, you know, Tucker Carlson talked about his supernatural experience, people dunked on him, including myself, and I'm very embarrassed about that. Mine wasn't like, oh, I got, you know, attacked by demons. Mine was actually a very positive experience, and it made me very close to, humanity, like understanding and, and appreciating people's humanity first and foremost before seeing them as nothing more than like a political figure or a political ideology. You know, I think that we've been going back to brainwashing. I think a lot of us have been brainwashed by our political system into dehumanizing people who disagree with us without realizing that like the only way we come up with solutions in this country, in a democracy, is if we encourage conversation between Americans regardless of what they believe politically, um, it, it tends to have a more moderating effect as well, right?

And you get a better sense of who your fellow Americans are as opposed to having people in positions of power tell you who your fellow Americans are and scare you about the other side and all of that. And so I just feel like there's something bigger than us, and it's hard to explain. I'm not really big into religious doctrine per se, but I'm, I definitely don't think I'm an atheist anymore. Right. Yeah. This is the first time I've said that publicly. Right. Which is, which is amazing.

Yeah. I mean, I think it, it's, something's on the move and I keep saying that. Yeah. It's, it feels like there are so many people that are having that sort of a spiritual awakening, if that's what you wanna call it, and recognizing, whoa, whoa, whoa, what is happening is so evil that it is ancient. This, there's something ancient about what's happening right now. Yeah. And the answers are not going to be in these fickle day-by-day discussions. And we need to, uh, what, what actually has been happening since since the beginning of time. And when you— for me, that was kind of the most natural thing where I was like, wow, this is like way deeper than I ever imagined. And it is. You're right. It's something happens that is so— it's like evil by biblical proportions, right? It's like biblical. This can't be. You can't be— we can't be the same species if you're okay with what they're doing. Like, there's something so much deeper. What is motivating you to be okay with a genocide? I need to figure this out. And I have been in that pursuit, I think, heavily since definitively since obviously my firing and me not comprehending everything.

And I feel it has put me— it has driven me even more. Like, I'm like, okay, I get this now.

This is— yeah. And I love that you're willing to have people like, you know, Norm Finkelstein on, Bassem Youssef. Like, those are some of my favorite episodes of yours. I watched it, and Bassem Youssef got a little— I'm sure I'm gonna get a lot of heat too. Oh, you're talking to Candace Owens, whatever. He got a little bit of heat on that, and I'm so happy to see that he pushed back. He's like, okay, you don't like Candace, who cares? Yeah.

Get over it. We need more of that. We have to like take this thing out of it because we're fighting real evil. And so we just, I just really want to say that, like, if you think you hate someone on the left, like, does, is that person, like, my, I think my litmus test is like Gaza. Like, you know, my litmus test has somehow become Gaza where I'm like—

Someone else finally said it. Same for me. Same for me. It's funny because was I went through at least a year and a half being like deeply, deeply bitter toward the left because of how they reacted toward me when I started to like moderate literally on like two issues. The way we were handling crime policy and, and by the way, I don't wanna go back to like tough on crime, throw everyone in prison. I was just like, hey, I live in California. We need to just calibrate a little bit because this isn't working out. Out. Um, and then there was one other issue, I can't remember what it is at the moment, but they like threw me away. And like longtime friends of mine like just started putting out like negative content about me, and it like, I was bitter about it. But after everything that happened in Gaza, I have a pretty strict policy right now. You are against what's happening in Gaza, that means to your core you're a good person. So who cares what you did to me? I'm not attacking you. I consider you a good person. And so you're on my side, even if we have these little squabbles and these disagreements, who cares?

Mm-hmm. If you care about making this country better and you're willing to sacrifice, you know, your, the purity of your political brand or whatever to work with people that you might have other disagreements with, I love you. I wanna work with you. You're a good person. I just, I don't wanna waste any of my time anymore with these like nonsense little squabbles when like our country is under attack. Okay. Our government doesn't represent us. Us. Money, moneyed interests control us. Foreign influence is outta control. We have problems that are way bigger than like, I don't know what you think about, yeah, even crime policy, right? Like, okay, you don't agree with me on crime policy. It's fine. Whatever. Doesn't mean you're a bad person. Mm-hmm. And you can attack me if you want, but I just, the reason why I don't wanna attack back at this point is because it's not important in the grand scheme of things. Yeah.

Yeah, you are absolutely right. Okay, so I want to ask you in closing, what are your predictions for— I would say this, this just this next year, because like I go back to that something feels very fragile right now. Everyone's lashing out. They seem like they've lost control. Trump, like, he's really completely lost his support. He doesn't want to acknowledge it. They're kind of keeping him in a cave of Fox News every day. Yep. Telling him he's amazing. Also, fake news CNN says 100%. I have 110% support. What are your predictions? Like, what do you feel toward him and where we're at right now as a nation.

So there had been a lot of liberals who were worried that Trump, if he gets reelected, as he did, he, he's never gonna leave the White House. I'm not worried about that at all. Yeah. Um, I think that in order to do a literal coup, you would need popular support among your base, and he's losing that support, um, big time. I think the popularity of Tucker Carlson Gives me a look into what the conservative movement is evolving toward. At least I'm hoping that's the case because he's very much conservative. Don't get me wrong. I mean, like he's still, you know, anti-abortion, you know, all the conservative values that have existed when it comes to social issues. But he woke up to the neocons. He woke up to the big game that's being played with our money, our resources, with our reputations. As Americans, and he's speaking out against it and he's taking a huge risk. And guess what? Um, he's got a lot of support, not just from conservatives, but also I'm noticing, you know, the biggest voting bloc now are independents, and he has a lot of support among independents as well. I'm even seeing some hardcore lefties like reluctantly admit like, Tucker's right about this, you know, and, and I love it.

I love that. Be honest with yourself. Who cares about the labels? What are your values? And stick to those values. And if you do that, you have to give Tucker Carlson credit for being as vociferous as he's been against Israel's influence on the United States, what's been going down in the Middle East, how much we have lost in blood and treasure, uh, when it came to forever wars that were fought on behalf of Israel in the past. And by the way, this is not, I want to be clear, this is not a partisan thing. Like this foreign policy is very much bipartisan. Under Obama, and a lot of people don't know this, uh, we wanted to assist Israel in turning Syria into a failed state. And, uh, we certainly succeeded in that mission. So under Obama, we started arming literal terrorists, including like Al-Qaeda offshoots. Al-Nusra. Yes, Al-Nusra. Exactly. How, how the hell could anyone defend that? It's so wrong. And so. We need people who are awake to how much this puts Americans at a disadvantage, how evil and immoral all this behavior has been. I hate the way that people across the globe perceive us.

You know, Iran, their propaganda has been very effective. It's fantastic. Yeah, their Lego videos are amazing. And the one they put out recently where they're speaking directly to the American people and telling us like, we actually love you guys, we have no problem with you guys, we know it's your government and that they're not representing what you want.

It was a sigh of relief because I'm like, please do not grow up and think that we support this geriatric, pedophile-defending, like Epstein class of psychopaths. Exactly. We don't want this, we do not want this war, we want to go about our day, have low gas prices, be able to afford groceries. And when they put that out, that message, it was like, they are are plugged in. Yeah, they are. They're plugged into how the American people feel. So Trump does not comprehend that. He is completely removed from it. And now you have Iran, and they have pretty much done everything the right way. We're trying to negotiate, we're killing people while we're negotiating. I know, crazy. It is crazy, crazy what we did. And Americans are awake to that. They are.

So that's what gives me hope. So my, my prediction for the future is, um, I don't think the political landscape is going to look anything like it has, uh, over the last, I don't know, 25 years. I think, um, things are changing. I think Americans are, are uniting on issues that matter the most. And that gives me hope. So as negative as all the issues we've been talking about are, fact of the matter is we are kind of moving in a better direction. The, at least the people of this country are, and we need to find a way. We need to start strategizing on how to change the political class. Class entirely. All of them. Okay. And the Chuck Schumers on the, on the Democratic side, they gotta go. They gotta go. Totally agree. Yeah.

Well, you guys, it has been an absolute honor to host Anna Kasparian. I am sure there will be backlash. Actually, not for me. My audience is very split now because I really— yeah, I'm not like—

females in my family who are watching you, I was like, I was pretty shocked.

Yeah. You know, because I just hate everybody. Rodriguez, by the way, shout out to Lily Rodriguez. Rodriguez. Yeah, I have just not— I just don't care anymore. We have to do more of this. It is the only way we're going to save this country against the Epstein class. And so if you're anti-pedophile, if you are against what is going on in Gaza, then we really are actually on the right side. We're on the same side, on the right side, I should say. The same side. The same side. Thank you guys so much. We'll see you next time.