Transcript of Russia's ambassador to UK appears to appears to laugh and dismiss Novichok inquiry | BBC News

Now then, we have talked a lot about the war in Ukraine in the last couple of years, a level of Russian aggression that took the West by surprise, with thousands upon thousands of lives being lost on both sides. But the inquiry into the shock, Novichok attack in Salisbury back in 2018, is a reminder of how relations between the UK and Russia went badly wrong, a poisoning on the UK soil of a former Russian spy that also took the life of an innocent British woman, Dawn Sturgis. She died after coming into contact with the nerve agent hidden in a perfume bottle. The UK has long believed it was ordered by the Kremlin, that attack, and carried out by Russian agents. Well, Don Sturgis' family want Vladimir Putin to be held accountable for what happened. I put that request direct to the Russian ambassador on Friday, asking if Russia still continued to claim that it was nothing to do with them. There is a clear view that the truth from 250 British detectives from the UK government, from the US government, the French, the German, the Canadian governments, all of whom have said that Russia was behind this attack.

Too many governments are involved. Do they really take advice of each other? It is so this is nonsense, really. I really do not want to discuss it further because it has been explicitly explained during all these years. Five years has passed. We arranged a big press conference here. Many questions has been answered. About that. Why to drag this history so long and to continue into this? We do not really understand. This is a part of the issue. The issue has been discussed, and we did have an opportunity to provide all the answers. Why No.

The reason for asking this now is that an official inquiry is underway. And that was an official inquiry. Into the fact that a British woman lost her life because of these poisonings. Now, the evidence is that the Novichok was manufactured in It's not Russia. The evidence is that two men... Forgive me if I could finish my question. The evidence is that two men traveling on Russian passports were behind this attack. Perhaps those two men should go to testify at the inquiry in order to clear their names, should they?

I don't think so. They are Russian citizens. Perhaps if we're speaking about the same personalities, as far as they recall, it's an old day already, but they have given the answers on the television, even performing on the television. That's all right.

Why don't they come and testify to the official inquiry that is taking place right now to clear it up? Because the fact is that the UK government does not believe what you're saying today. People listening to this will think that you are- My government firmly believes that UK government is waging aggressive war against Russia by the hands of Ukrainians.

This is a proxy war led by the United Kingdom's government by providing little weapon with which UK government is killing Russian soldiers and civilians.

You think that we are at war with your country?

I think that you are aggressive or you're waging a proxy war against Russia.

We'll come to that in a moment. But in terms of Salisbury, do you have any words for the family of Dawn Sturgis, the British woman who was innocent, who was killed.

Perhaps since it is at the very beginning, it's a third or fourth day of the listening of the hearings which takes place, Sulsbury, someplace, Then it will go to London. And what we see in the press, it is only one optics on the other side. It is just one side of the story that has been shown. I would appreciate very much that it will be two sides of the story.

Well, her family would like to hear the Russian side. In fact, her family would like Vladimir Putin to take part in the inquiry.

I hardly believe that President Putin will go to Britain just to testify to do something.

But the family have asked for that. If it's not possible for that to take place, do you, today, ambassador, have any words for that grieving family?

I don't know. I have never met this family. I am not involved in discussions with them or something else. So if someone has died, of course, we are concerned about that.

When we last spoke about 18 months ago, you told us of Russia's superior might. You said it was 16 times bigger than Ukraine and that you would prevail. If that was true, that Russia would prevail, why haven't you won yet?

And this is what is happening during what I have said. It is absolutely true. Well, the war is still going on. You have heard. Zelenski, yesterday, he was desperate. He fully understands that he is losing not only terrain, but he is losing the conflict. I wouldn't say the war, but I wouldn't say that they are going to surrender tomorrow. They still continue to resist It is, but the resistance is more fable and fable. Every day we are gaining more and more terrain. Half of what has been captured by Ukrainian troops has been already liberated. The other half will be liberated soon. At the end of this phrase will mean the end of Ukraine until it takes.

What do you mean by that?

By that, the defeat is in view. The defeat of the whole cause is in view. I wouldn't say that it's happened tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. What is worrying us is that there is no peace plan in the peace plan presented by Zlinsky. He do not want to peace negotiations. He continues to ask for more and more NATO, European Union assistance, defense packages, anything, but nothing about negotiations at all.

Well, he's been very clear he won't negotiate with you.

He won't negotiate with us? Fine. Then he will lose more and more terrain.

Are you comfortable, as an experienced diplomat of many decades, with having to rely on support from pariah states like North Korea and Iran?

I wouldn't say that it is for you, perhaps. It is a pariah state. For us, it's normal people. We have been friends and we have a lot of common interests. We with North Korea and with Iran itself. It is simply people, just the governments. Although if they are taking different position and different views, it doesn't mean that we should disregard a relationship with them. Yes, we did strike an agreement which has actually a repetition of an older agreement with the North Korea. Anything bad, we do not see it. This is a country which is our neighbor. We have a lot of tourists, by the way, in the North Korea right now, as well as in Iran. They are on the map. They do exist, and no one should ignore them.

They are normal countries, you say? Absolutely. Those countries without democracy who persecute political prisoners.

As well as the others, as well as Jagos. People, for instance, as well as Falkland Island, as well as all the others. These are simple people whose rights we have to protect.

Isn't the truth here that you and Vladimir Putin are both sitting in grand luxury, refusing to budge, while thousands of civilians, Russians and Ukrainians, are suffering as a result of this conflict, which your government could bring to an end, and yet you persist with it?

Stop the flow of arguments to the Ukraine, and the conflict will be to resolve the day after tomorrow.

Is there any chance that Vladimir Putin- To stop the armament suppliers? Is there any chance that Vladimir Putin will budge? Because it may be that he will put such strain on his country that in the end, it will be impossible for him to hold on.

Laura, it's a wrong assumption that there is a big strain economically on Russia. Russia lives with its own absolutely normal life. We are in favor of speediest political negotiated solution over there, but we do not feel a reciprocity. No one, neither Ukrainian President nor his government, neither officially, none of the NATO government are speaking about negotiations.

What we should do- Because they're very clear that they believe it was an illegal invasion on your side, so you know that they don't want to negotiate. Can I ask you- What do you want?

That we will finish it unilaterally? No, it will It will not happen. So we are not going to just say, Okay, since tomorrow, we do not shoot each other. We want to settle this conflict forever and on a normal terms. The terms that will guarantee Europe us and Ukraine, normal security guarantees.

Does this suffering in this war ever keep you awake at night? Ever what? Keep you awake at night.

No one likes the war, sir. No one likes the war. We stand for a as quick as diplomatic and political settlement. And we expect the same from the others.

But does this suffering and the loss of life, as it drags on, does it ever cause you to stay awake at night?

You're repeating your questions. You didn't answer it.

You didn't have any answers. Does it ever cause you to stay awake at night?

Yes. Well, sometimes I feel like I expect and I anticipate the end of it, the quickest end of it. And I hope that it will end sometime. No one would like to drag it for a long time.

Last month, President Putin issued a threat saying that any advanced Western missiles, any Western attack could result in nuclear retaliation.

Not exactly. This is not exactly what he has said.

So what is the nature of President Putin's view on when a nuclear retaliation might be justified?

President Putin has never said about a nuclear retaliation. What he has said, basically, that we are changing our doctrine. In a sense, it was a thing that is connected with a discussion which is still underway here about an option of long-range missiles that can strike Russian territory.

However, the head of NATO has said so far, President Putin may have made these kinds of threats, but NATO has been able to call his bluff. It's a sign of weakness to make these kinds of threats, isn't it? Not a sign of strength.

It is a bluff. It is the pronunciation by the chief of NATO. That's a bluff because we are going to protect our security interests and our security with all means that are in our disposal. And believe me, there are lots of them.

Ambassador Kelen, thank you very much indeed for speaking to us today. Thank you for inviting us back to the- Thank you very much for your questions.

Thank you.

Well, Well, that's the official worldview from the Kremlin's Man in London. Let's now get something of a reality check from the BBC's Man in Moscow, Steve Rosenberg.

Morning from Moscow, Laura. I tell you what feels strange here right now. On the one hand, Russia is waging war on Ukraine. Huge numbers of Russian soldiers have been killed. Just 300 miles or so from here, Ukrainian troops are occupying a chunk of Russian territory. And yet, if you go on the streets of Moscow, everything It feels normal. It looks normal. The busses are running on time. The shops are still full of goods. International sanctions have not crashed the Russian economy. I think in many ways, the authorities here have managed to normalize the war in Russian public perception. It's become routine, something going on in the background. Many Russians just try to put the war completely out of their minds and get on with life. The Kremlin talks about wanting peace, but peace on Russia's terms, which would amount to Ukraine's capitulation. In the Russian state media, the official narrative continues to be that the West is using Ukraine to wage war on Russia, to try to destroy Russia, when in reality, it was Russia that launched the full-scale invasion of Ukraine. This was President Putin's decision. By the way, in a couple of days' time, he'll be hosting two dozen heads of state, including from India and China, we'll be covering that.

I'm sure he'll try to use that summit to show that attempts to isolate him on the world stage have failed. But problems are building. Inflation is a problem. The shortage in the labor markets is a problem. I've talked about military casualties, and the government here is having to spend increasingly large sums of money to try to recruit volunteers to fight in Ukraine.

You should definitely keep an eye out for Steve Rosenberg's reporting from that summit in the next few days.