Transcript of Laufey New

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Padman.

Hi there.

Hi. Today we have LaVe.

Yes, we have LaVe.

She is a 2-time Grammy Award-winning singer and songwriter. And what was so special is we got her right between her 2 performances at Coachella.

I know we got her like right off the presses. And so we got to hear about how that first experience went.

Yes. And then added bonus, she brought her identical twin sister.

Oh, it was so fun.

So, so we love twins. We love twins. We have twin expert just coming on. I mean, it's really in the zeitgeist. Her albums, Everything I Know About Love, Bewitched, A Matter of Time, and a new deluxe album out now, A Matter of Time: The Final Hour. She also has a children's book out now called Mei Mei the Bunny.

Yes.

Which we'll hear about. Yeah. Mei Mei gets a little nervous before a big performance.

Of course she does.

Please enjoy Lei Wei.

Guys, are they really twins?

Identical.

Oh, we love twins!

We do. We kind of, kind of obsessed with twins.

Yeah, we have so many questions.

Well, we've had a twin expert on, and of course you're probably— yeah, yeah, yeah, you should.

Interesting.

First of all, you should watch all 1,000 episodes. I've seen all one—

1,000.

I've seen You've seen all One One Thousand.

One One—

No, there's all kinds of mind-boggling things. You know, twins separated at birth, identical twins separated at birth. Oh, yes.

Just studies about personalities. We don't get to do that with many people, but with twins—

Yeah, you guys are really good—

technically, it's the same.

—experiment subjects. Oh, totally.

You could cut, like, a scar on our knee, track how we heal. Like, we could just do that for sure. Yeah, lots of—

so we could put one of you in the Amazon with the same cut. And one of you in Iceland, ding, ding, ding, and see where you healed better. Yeah. Yeah. Or there was one in Brazil or Colombia where two identical twins were born in the same hospital and they accidentally switched one from each. And so a pair of twins went into the country, raised in a very rural environment, and then another pair of twins were raised in the city, completely different kind of parents. One was wealthy, one was rural. But when this all got unveiled and they realized, oh no, you're an identical twin and your twin is in rural Brazil, when they got together, despite being raised in those dramatically different environments, they were almost the exact same person. And same with the other two. Wow.

So pissed if I were the one who had been raised—

right? —poor and rural. I know.

I always see those, like, studies where they show a twin that, like, drank more. Smoked more and, like, they look worse for wear.

And I always think that's gonna be me. You're gonna be the one that looks more haggard? I drink and Larry doesn't drink.

So I'm gonna look like ass. That's what I'm saying. Just because I'm on, like, a continuous tour.

Yeah, you're like, I just—

you wanna take care of Larry. It's not, like, a choice to appease the above.

Yeah. If you had your druthers, you would be drinking much more and smoking much more. You wouldn't smoke. You sing too much, right?

Yeah, I think so. What about pranks? Have you guys done pranks on people?

The pranks are super underwhelming because they haven't shocked anyone. One time on April Fool's Day, we were like, fuck it, we're gonna swap. Yeah, and we swapped, and we were in two different classes, so I went to her class and she went to mine.

Oh, this is okay, back in school?

Yes, and her class watched a movie So I watched a movie and my class had a pop quiz.

Oh no. Oh, so she got screwed.

Yeah, but also you got screwed.

No, she gets to watch a movie.

I know, but your grade is now—

Like shitty grade. Exactly.

She got the last laugh. Yeah, she did.

But no one noticed. And then when we told people, people felt like a little embarrassed because they wanted to treat us like human beings, which is sweet. Yeah. Yeah. So they couldn't laugh. Right. Okay. They were also just like ashamed and embarrassed. So it wasn't like a gotcha moment.

It was like a, oh, you heard their feelings.

How do we react by treating them still like human beings? Oh, wow. Don't you agree? That's kind of how it read. Yeah. People were too woke to laugh about getting twins mixed up.

Yeah. Oh, that's upsetting. Okay. We should always be able to laugh at twin mixups. Yeah.

Just a giggle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We put the effort in. Just a giggle.

Yeah. Okay. So I'm most curious right out of the gates. How mom and dad meet? Because mom's from China, dad's from Iceland. How do they meet?

So my mom's a violinist and she got a place in the Iceland Symphony Orchestra. Congrats, mom. So she, for some reason, was just ready for an adventure, decided to move to Iceland and be the one Asian person in Iceland.

How did they meet?

I don't know the exact story, but Iceland is a very small community. Yeah, I'm sure my dad just saw my mom around, was like, wow, she's so cute. Yeah, yeah.

I went a couple summers ago. Very, very small. Did you get good weather or bad weather? Great weather. Really? Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's on the chilly side.

I take it really personally. Like, if people hated Iceland, I'm like, I will personally take them back and walk them around the country.

Okay. But have you ever heard someone say they didn't like Iceland? Have you gotten that feedback? Yeah, you have.

Iceland's an unpredictable beast. You know, if you're going and you want to see a rainbow behind the waterfall or the Northern Lights and there's just like an orange weather warning the whole time. Yeah, that sucks.

What's an orange weather warning?

I forget the exact levels of it, but there's like a yellow warning, orange warning. I think there's a red warning too. Just different levels of how fucked you are and how much you cannot travel around the country.

Because of snow, blizzard.

Yeah, the second it hits any type of warning, it's like get off the roads. Okay. Which doesn't stop anybody.

Now here's something I could see someone complaining about. And we were blessed, privileged. We had great blackout drapes in our hotel. But you're there in the summer— Doesn't touch me. You're not gonna sleep if you don't have blackout. I mean, because it's light out at 3 AM.

Well, yeah, it's so fun to go out at night during the summer because you leave the bar and it's past midnight and there's just this orange sunset/sunrise because the sun just doesn't hit, like it just sits on the horizon.

Yeah, it just kind of goes across.

It just goes across. Yeah. And it's so beautiful. It's just electric. So just get drunk. I'm an ex-addict.

I don't know if you know this about me, but the whole time there I was like, man, I could have died so well here in this city with cocaine. I could have just gone.

Also how people just thrive in the cold, chilly, odd climate that Iceland is.

Heavy drinkers, right? Yeah.

I didn't really think about it growing up. When I left Iceland for college, I noticed how weird Iceland was. Or not weird, but just different. I remember distinctly coming back from my first, like, holiday for Christmas, coming back to Iceland and noticing how very dark it was. And you wake up and it's still dark in the winter. It's affected me a little more now as I've spent more time in the States.

California will mess you up.

People get very pressed about, like, daylight savings and, like, oh no, like, it's getting dark so early. And I'm like, you guys should go to Iceland and then come back and you'll be So thankful.

Yeah, it's weird. You also spent time in DC. So Dad worked for the IMF. Yeah, he's Icelandic. What's the IMF? International Monetary Fund. Thank you. Yeah, you guys went to DC when you were 7 to 9. Is that the ages?

Yes, 7 to 9. And then also when I was like a teeny tiny baby, but I don't remember that. I sound very Americanized, but I really only lived there from a bit of first grade, second grade. But it was so formative, right? It's like when you learn to read and write. So I always had this kind of memory of living in America at that age. It's like you have McDonald's and you have American Girl dolls and you have Target. Yes. And that was like daily Disneyland. Yeah. Whereas, and then you went back to Iceland. Also, we moved back in the middle of the recession, the financial crisis, which hit Iceland really hard. So It was such a different atmosphere to land into.

Yeah. Was your dad stressed beyond belief? Because that was the role he was tasked with for the government.

Yeah. Well, we lived in America when all the bad shit was going down. Yeah, exactly. And then we moved back into just like this absolute mess of a system. And I have the class— like, I don't really know what my dad does, but he was definitely working very hard to help fix things there. Is he 11 feet tall?

How tall is he?

I don't know. I don't think about my parents' height.

Okay, what makes you think he might be 11 feet tall?

Because the Icelandic men are really tall, like all those Nordic folks.

They tend to get up there Viking-like.

Now listen, I'm a father of daughters, and I'm gonna be honest with you, if I was listening to my daughter on the show and she didn't know how tall I was or what I did for a living, I think my feelings might be hurt.

Well, it's all confusing because I still don't completely understand American height. Oh, and then I've like lost a little bit sight of meters too, so I'm kind of stuck in an in-between. Yeah, it's Same with Fahrenheit and Celsius. I kind of never really know the temperature. Some people can be a person without a country.

You're a person without measurements.

I'm a person without measurements. Yeah. Well, numbers don't matter. Yeah. I like that. It's a bad feeling.

That might be liberating. Yeah. I think a lot of people don't know what their moms and dads do specifically. They know like the overarching.

How tall is your dad? I don't know. Oh God, you guys. I really don't know. The show is crying right now. No, he's not. Just to update you. No, he's not.

He's like. That's her father. He doesn't know how tall I am. Yeah, he does.

Yeah, I don't think my dad knows how tall I am either. Yeah. Like, I'm a girl height.

You're very rare.

Oh, I love numbers.

Also, I find that in the States, maybe this is because I went into the conversation of dating and then height became this thing. Oh, sure. I never thought about height until I started dating. Then that became a number. Like, 5'11" meant nothing to me before the age of like 20. How tall are you?

Do you know how tall you are?

Oh, 5'5", I think. Like 5'4".

You're not 5'11". You just threw out 5'11" and I was like, I just hugged you.

I don't think you know. 5'11" for dating.

That's the height that men are scared of saying that they are. All right. They'll say they're 6 feet. Exactly. Yeah, but I don't really know what any of that means.

Yeah. You're like, who cares? Exactly. 5'11" is bigger than 6.

It's 511. So it seems bigger. This makes no—

I don't understand that system. What do you mean it caps out at 11, then it turns to like a new number?

Yes, it's a terrible system. The English system. I agree. Okay, so Mom was this concert violinist. What was her time commitment there? I know she practiced every single day, but what was the hours worked? Because I know how she was on you both learning music, and I'm curious how much free time she had for that.

She's also a teacher. So taught a lot of violin students, and we just kind of were her students as well. When we were born, she definitely prioritized our music education, but she was always in the orchestra as well.

How was she doing in Iceland? That's a big change for her from China. Yeah, huge.

I ask her all the time because it's so— well, as somebody who's moved very far from my country to a different part of the world, I have all this modern technology. Like, I can call her every single day. I can connect to Icelandic culture still. And even through the internet, finding like an Icelandic community in LA, like there's so many different ways that you can connect to a culture still. I don't wanna say that she didn't think about it, but I think that was the option. So she just went with it. And what I really admire about my mom is she never saw being Chinese or being Asian in Iceland as some sort of drawback. She didn't sit around lamenting that she was different than everybody else. I think I do a whole lot more of that than my mother. She's never done any of that. She just moves forward, very entrepreneurial. Entrepreneurial, and she just makes beauty out of everything.

Don't you think that speaks volumes about when you decide something versus something's been decided for you? So she decided to leave China, so she's not gonna go to Iceland and be like, "Boohoo, I'm Chinese in Iceland." She chose it. But you're just born in Iceland, you're like, "What's up? Why am I the only person?" Yeah, it's true.

I've been thinking so much, actually, about the choices we have and how confounded by choice I often am. I think about it in contrast with my mother, where— she didn't have nearly as many options. You just take what you can get, in a sense. Yeah. And when you get a position in an orchestra, you just go. And whether that's in Iceland or Antarctica or Singapore, you know, in the States, you go where a door opens. And I think that there's kind of a beauty to that. And it's such a privilege to have so many options. You go to a restaurant and there's one plate on the menu, you just eat it and I'll be happy. But, you know, you go to the Cheesecake Factory, you're confounded by choice. Yeah, good luck. And sometimes that is a whole lot more stressful experience.

Yeah. It makes me realize that because she chose it, it's one thing. And if you didn't choose it, and if you could trick yourself into going like, "Oh, I chose this experience," at all times, you would experience it much differently. If you could just fool yourself into that. Yeah.

Oftentimes I think about my mother's journey and how a door would open and she would just walk through it. She wouldn't look around like, "Is there another door around me?" Is there racism there?

Oh yeah. Everywhere, I guess.

Absolutely. And it's something that whispers in Iceland too, because there are so few people of color.

Right. I guess that was my question.

That it's like people in Iceland oftentimes love to pretend that it doesn't exist because it is a very progressive society. Yeah. And we are very forward thinking in many ways. Like we had the first democratically voted female head of state, the president in the '80s, Vigdis Finnbóðardóttir, who was a single mom. And she was voted. And currently we have a female president, female prime minister, a lot more female ministers as well. It's truly like a country that is run by women, which I'm so proud of. So progressive in so many ways, but I still think there's so much work to be done when it comes to diversity, but there's so little diversity that the conversation doesn't come up as often. But I think it's something that's increasing and I'm happy that people are talking about it.

Yeah. I don't wanna excuse racism, but I also wanna acknowledge people when they have no experience with other groups. They are left only with stereotypes.

The way I like to describe it, even for myself, and I'm only half Asian, I am white-passing in many instances, but in a class of 250 blonde-haired, blue-eyed people, you walk in and you have different features and you're eating different food at home. Immediately everybody will turn around and be like, "Oh, what's this?" Sometimes. But it wasn't meant to be like a negative thing. But I often felt so different growing up by the nature of being a part of a very homogenous society. Yes. Okay.

But you're also saved by the fact that you're bouncing around everywhere, right? So you're in Iceland until 7, then you're in DC for a couple years and you're with international students where you go to school.

By nature of being in DC, I went to a public school, but everyone was from a different country. Yeah. Yeah. Which was really cool, which I think is why I loved being in DC so much.

And then summers in China. Yeah. So when you go to China, are you also feeling exotic and other?

Yeah, but I never really thought of it. For some reason in China, I was always so excited to go to China and excited to be with my grandparents and excited to speak Chinese and eat the food. When I speak Chinese in China, people are so warm about it. They love speaking Chinese, and they love when Westerners are trying to claim their language or speak it or something like that.

And you speak Mandarin, right? Mandarin.

Whereas Islanders, I often find if you try to speak Icelandic to them and you even have a lick of an accent, they'll switch to English. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, don't even try.

Exactly. That's kind of the difference. It's fun to try to be a part of China because the culture, the food, they love when you embrace it. Whereas, like, in Iceland, there's all these kind of weird social rules.

But they're both music professors, so obviously this comes very natural for you to be in this situation. But when I'm looking at your life, I have a lot of— and I could be totally wrong, but I see, like, moving around a lot, that leads to crazy loneliness. Ken, the level of dedication to learn cello, to learn piano, to end up yourself playing cello at the symphony orchestra at 15— these are lonely endeavors. And until I read you had an identical twin, I have like one whole thought of your childhood. But then when I think you have an identical twin, that must help buffet all of those things. Absolutely. Yeah. Can you imagine having done this whole same life of yours but by yourself?

No. You know, it's funny you say the word lonely and the whole time I'm thinking, I really don't know, like lonely in a sense, but different is always the word I use because I felt different, but I was never alone. Like I always had Yunyu, my sister, with me. And especially classical music education can be quite a lonely endeavor. When I started playing in chamber groups and orchestra, I started loving it so much more because it became a social thing. Yeah. And you'd hang out with your other friends that were doing this really odd thing as well, which is, like, studying.

You're basically Olympians.

Well, it's a solo sport until it becomes a group sport.

But also just the amount of practice required is all-consuming, no?

Yeah, I mean, it takes up your whole life in a way, and that becomes your identity. And I never questioned it. I don't want to say that I didn't have the freedom to do other things, but I just came from a family of classical musicians and knew that that's what I was meant to do. When I was younger, I saw it as just like a part of school. Did school and then I went home and I cello for an hour.

You're like, that was just part of the routine. Like, this is just what I do.

Yeah. And then as I grew older and it became more of like a choice of, are you really going to want to pursue this? That's when my mom was like, this is in your hands now. If you want to continue on this journey, you continue. And if you don't, you don't have to. What age was that? 14. Like high school age. Did your sister also play? Yes, but she played violin and I played cello. We both played piano, but we had our kind of separate things there, but we could often play together, which was lovely.

And what does that do to the dynamic between mother and daughter when mom is the teacher and mom's overseeing it? And I heard you in an interview on Fresh Air saying, like, yeah, if she hears you not play the right note from the other room while she's working with her on the violin, she's screaming to you. I went to— again, another stereotype, but like, the Chinese immigrant American child in America has very specific— and it's going to be like, fucking math by row, this really intense you've got to get this skill because you must be safe. I want to know what that dynamic was. Was there tension, or was that easy?

Instilling this level of discipline, healthy discipline, in me— I think a lot of kids get it through sports, and I got it through music. It's funny how much of a taboo— I don't even know if taboo is the right word, but I think sometimes when people talk about immigrant parents and how hard they are on their children, they love to— especially when it comes to like music or school— they love to make it sound like this really oppressive thing. And sometimes it totally is. Do get me wrong, I had a really healthy relationship with my mother and discipline. So many kids get this through sports, and I feel like it's okay with sports somehow in the eye of— that's interesting. You hear about kids who push really hard to become Olympians or football players or basketball players, and they grind and they spend all their time with their coaches, and their coaches push them hard. And I find that the conversation around that, it's like, okay, Whereas people talk about the mean Chinese mother or something.

Well, I have opinions about the sports thing. So yes, it's great when you turn out to be Tiger Woods, but for every Tiger Woods, there were a couple thousand kids whose relationships with their father was completely destroyed. I mean, for something that didn't amount to anything because the dad had fucking dreams of being on the PGA. So definitely it happens. And yes, when I'm talking to you, it works out like you're here, you have two Grammys, of course, here. But I think unfortunately a lot of people end up modeling that. Again, if the payoff is there, then yeah, if you end up at the Olympics, yeah. But if you also you also just rode your kid for 12 years and they weren't destined to be an Olympian, then no, I don't think that's cool.

00:20:53

I've definitely seen mean examples of it. I mean, of course in classical music. Are you kidding me? But this is where I think it was really healthy. My mom's goal with making sure I practiced every day was not to make me the best solo cellist in the world. It was only about teaching good habits and discipline, being able to stick to something. Yeah. Seeing it through, dedicate yourself to something. And that's something I'm so grateful for because even as I've left classical music, I've been able to transfer that to school or life or work. I think I'm really fortunate that it was just about good habits and not just about winning. Yeah. She didn't care about me winning. And I think that's where it gets really unhealthy. Yes. When parents just want their kids to win.

Miss the spelling bee and get yelled at the whole ride home.

Yeah. Like my mom would never do that. But societally, I do think you're right.

This is interesting. I'm even thinking just personally, I do that. Like if I hear that a coach or something is pushing their protégé very hard, I'm like, yeah, that's what you have to do. That's how you do to get a gold medal. I don't have any judgment of that. But yes, if I hear someone's like, oh my God, they made me do so many math problems, like wouldn't let me get out of my seat, I'd be like, oh no, that's a problem.

Yeah. Exactly.

Well, also there's a different dynamic if you have a coach and you've told your parent, I really wanna be a gymnast. Okay, great. Here's the best coach. And then when you disappoint the coach, you understand they're not disappointed. They're teaching me this thing. But I think where it gets blurry is when your parent is your teacher and you fail. I do think there's an extra layer. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I mean, my mom always made sure we had teachers. Oh, okay. She was never our primary teacher. Oh, cute. And I think that's really important. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. It was more for my sister because she's a violinist, so she taught my sister who played violin. I literally chose cello because I was like, I don't want my mom to teach me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Smart. And I don't want to have to be measured by her either. Like, here's an example of perfection in the house.

Do I want that? My grandfather was a violin professor in China, and he taught all of these Amazing Chinese prodigies, and I just saw those kids. I was like, all right, I'm not gonna match up. But I love the sound of cello. It sings more.

I think cello is my favorite instrument of all of the traditional ones because it goes more places. It's like, I don't know, is it a bass? Sometimes it can go a bit high. Like, it just feels very versatile. It can be all over the place. You're playing with the bow, sometimes they're not. Feels more of a flexible and improv-friendly instrument than some others, but maybe that's completely rubbish. I don't know.

I think what it is is just when people listen to violin, they think a lot more about technique, fast passages, runs, if you will, like to compare it to singing. Whereas if you think about cello, it's about tone, it's about heart, it's about how it touches you. It's a lot more melodic in that way.

Do you love watching Wednesday play the cello? Are you stoked that, like, it looks so cool?

I'm stoked that there is any type of cello in the world, in pop culture. That always makes me feel so seen, whether it's School of Rock or Wednesday or anything. I always celebrate it. Whenever a character plays the cello, I'm like, "Yes!" She's also such a badass.

Yeah.

And I love how Wednesday gets her anger out by playing cello. Like, and I feel like that's actually really cool because cello is known to be this melodic, like, sad instrument. I love it. I always think string playing in movies and TV is so funny because it's almost never synced correctly. Sure, sure. You know too much. I know too much. Yeah. And it always looks kind of silly. But I can tell that Jenna Ortega put in the time to, like, learn the instrument. And I think that's so cool.

Yeah. I want to acknowledge how you and I are almost like if there was a spectrum of this, we would be on opposite ends of the spectrum, which is like, I'm not a master of anything. I did 1 million things as a kid.

I mean, you're a master of something.

I don't know if I am, but my childhood was completely undisciplined. My mom was at work all day.

Single mom. By the way, despite all of this, I'm extremely jealous of. Okay, great.

Because when I'm looking at your life, and of course my life got me here and I like where I'm at, and your life got you here and you like where you're at. So we could make cases for either. But when I look at your childhood, I go, oh no, well, where was the childhood? Because when you weren't doing those things, which are already very time-consuming and repetitive and so much practice, you're doing ballet.

Highly disciplined. Yeah. Like, that's everything. But I was terrible at it.

It was just dancing.

So for me, discipline's like, oh, But I'm just curious, do you think you paid any price or you gave anything up for that to end up as skilled as you were?

No, I don't think so. Okay, great. On the spectrum of classical music, I was still pretty lax. Like, when you look at the kids that are really out there performing, they are on a different level. I still had a childhood. Like, I still had fun. I think I didn't start being a teenager early enough, but that came a lot more from my personality. I was really scared of growing up. I really didn't want to be an adult. I really wanted to be a child. I had this weird complex about wanting to be a child always. Huh, that's interesting. I can't explain it. I was like scared of drinking and scared of going to parties and scared of going on dates. Boys. Super scared of boys. I was a very insecure child. I didn't feel great about how I looked or my body, and I just didn't feel confident enough to go do that.

And how similar are your personalities? Like, what was your twin?

We were both like that. I think we both like spiraled into it together. I felt weird and times two. Imagine feeling like you take up a lot of space and are super annoying, and you're in your head about that, and you feel like you dress differently and you look bad and you look ugly times two. I felt like I was walking around being extra weird extra different.

This is tough because she's here, but yes, I was insecure. And then any family member of mine also made me insecure, right? Like, I might not have liked what was going on with me, but also it's like, then you bring other family members, now I'm embarrassed on their behalf. Oh yeah. So if you didn't like yourself and then there's an identical version of you cruising around, that's just more embarrassment in a sense for me. Absolutely.

And we were referred to as the twins. We didn't have our own names. There was like this 2-year period where the teacher would be like, oh, and twins. And we would scream back, it's Leve and Yuniya. We genuinely— that was like my one act of rebellion ever in high school. I hated being called the twins because I wanted to have my own identity.

I'm sorry we're so interested in it.

No, honestly, I love talking about it. It's a weird thing and I feel like I've overcome it so much. So I do love talking about it because I think when you're in high school, you can feel so trapped in your identity and think that that's the only way you're ever going to be. But to your earlier point on where was the opposite of discipline, right? I wouldn't be where I am now if I didn't leave home for college, leave my twin sister— she went to university in Scotland, I went to university in Boston— and start living life.

How scary was that first year?

It was really scary until it was really fun.

Oh, can I back up though? Because I want to know how this girl with this personality and these very understandable insecurities that we all have— how did you deal with being on stage at 15 for the orchestra, symphony orchestra, and then TV twice? Like, you were Island Got Talent. Why isn't it Iceland Got Talent? It's Island Got Talent.

It is Iceland Got Talent, but Iceland in Icelandic is Islend. Oh, Islend Got Talent. Okay. I mean, Iceland is an island.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then also The Voice.

I competed in every single singing competition or talent competition I could find.

So how did you do with those when you were feeling insecure as a young woman and then you're also having to get on TV and perform on stage? Did you disassociate and have a different persona? How did you How did you manage that?

I was insecure as a girl, but I was not insecure as a musician. Oh, great! That's great.

Maybe that's part of the reason you loved it so much, is like it was your superpower.

I loved going on stage. I've always felt so comfortable on stage, and I think that's where I found my confidence.

So you were a finalist in one and then a semifinalist in the other. Yeah. Were kids at school not intrigued by this? Were you, like, popular for it?

I don't know if popular is the right word. People definitely knew that I was doing all that, but it didn't mean I was cool by any means.

Were you getting any credit for that? Were people like, hey, I saw you on Iceland Got Talent, you were great? And you're like, thank you.

It was like, however little credit she got, I got less, because when I— oh, I'm sorry.

Yeah, I think your twin's like the Wednesday version of you. Would you say that?

I mean, we need to talk more, but yeah, you guys have a really fun, complementary Vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We fill into each other's sentences. Is she the naughtier twin?

Oh, for sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was that always the case, or is that when you said when you guys went to college and you kind of separated?

We went in and out of naughty, and now I'm touring a lot and needing to make sure I'm sleeping. Discipline comes into play. 9 hours a night, and both of our lives are quite crazy. I've literally dragged Yoonja into all of this with me, and which is so lovely because such a weird thing to go through, and to go through it together again, I'm still not lonely. Yeah, yeah, it's wonderful.

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It was really tough because despite taking every opportunity I could, I was really, really scared of jumping into becoming a singer. I was like, this is not gonna go anywhere. I don't wanna say I'd given up, but I felt that I had enough proof that I wasn't gonna make it. I had competed in every single singing competition. I had all these producers in Iceland promise that they were gonna work with me or listen to me, and nobody really responded or gave me the time of day. And I would see them work with other girls who are more like down-the-middle pop. I think I also truly hadn't found my sound yet.

I was gonna say, you probably didn't have an identity yet. I absolutely did not.

I was a classical cellist, a jazz singer, and I loved pop music. I loved— And a terrible ballerina. Songwriter. And a terrible ballerina, yeah. And I don't even know if I knew if I could find my sound. Yeah. That's scary, right? Nobody was making the kind of music I wanted to make, and I didn't even know what kind of music I wanted to make. If you would have asked me back then, I would have told you in my dream world, I'm mixing all the things I am, which is a songwriter. Like, I'd not written any songs. I'd written maybe one song. I wouldn't call myself a writer when I had gone to Berkeley. I'd written a song reluctantly for a class or something. Yeah. So I didn't have songwriting experience. I didn't have life experience. I didn't have anything to write about. I was a classical cellist and a jazz singer. I hadn't really experienced heartbreak. Maybe I'd had some secret crushes, but my biggest fear when I was in high school was admitting to having a crush. I don't know why I thought that there was absolutely nothing more embarrassing than that.

Well, don't you think 'cause then rejection might be on the other side of that?

I was genuinely scared that if I so much as admitted I had a crush on, like, a movie character— Wow. —that the world, or that my friends, or something would be like, "Oh my God, you think you can get that?" I don't know why I thought it was that deep.

Monica did the same thing, but her crushes were like, "Oh, I'm gonna go so outside of what's possible." Right.

And I was happy to talk about it. About it. I like to talk about it, actually, because I was like, everyone's doing this. So maybe that's the difference, though. Everyone had crushes. And my friends did too.

I don't know what it was.

You thought you'd be made fun of? That's so interesting.

I think I was judging myself. Yeah, I think it came from like deep inner judgment, and that's something that I completely worked out of when I got to college. And I was known as just Loewe when I went to Berkeley. Yeah, so I was very afraid to jump into deep end. And it was my mom who was like, you have to go. She was like, you have this beautiful opportunity. And she believed so much in me. And I did so much unworking of my kind of childhood, although I just had so many walls up, and I broke them all down. But barrier by barrier, as I got to Berkeley, and then in the last 8 years, I've just been knocking it down. And now I feel so free. Yeah.

So walk me through the steps of arriving in Boston, and how do they start eroding? And what's it like to be in Boston. And how are those things falling away? Because yes, by your junior year, you're now, like, writing and making music. And by your senior year, you have songs that are on the radio in Iceland.

What really changed for me is I kind of had my first touch with depression, I think.

Mm-hmm. Well, your safety blanket wasn't there.

My safety blanket wasn't there, and I didn't really know who I was. I was really confused when I got to Berklee. So I went as a cello student because they offered me a full scholarship as a cellist.

The Presidential Scholarship.

The Presidential Scholarship. I can only guess it's just due to lack of string players. I was very fortunate to get to go. Yeah, that's a big honor. For free. And that was one of the reasons I decided to go, because my parents were like, we're not going to pay for college. This shit is free here. If you want to go, you pay for it. So of course, that kind of felt like this golden ticket to go. And so I went and I was there playing cello and and singing a bit, but I couldn't fathom why they had invested that much in me. I really didn't understand. I kept telling myself, "They just need cellists. They need string players. They need people in the orchestra." That was what I kept saying to myself. So I was just trying to figure out who I was in the tapestry of Berklee at the time. And it took me a couple months to realize that a lot of people were doing a lot of different things. Things. People had majors, people had principal instruments, but most of them were mixing everything together.

Yeah, we just interviewed Charlie Puth, who was there at Berklee. Yeah. And he was doing, like, sound engineering or something.

Yeah. But he plays every instrument and could have probably done any major there. It was so healthy for me to be around these kids who didn't have as much of a classical upbringing, and their relationship to music came from a true place of love people were willing to do anything, and they were really down to collaborate and mix different genres together. And a lot of people had this honest, blind faith in themselves, which I needed to instill in myself. You cannot do this job without having that blind faith and thinking that you are going to make it. You cannot reluctantly jump into this. And that's where things started to change.

Am I right or wrong in that? To me, classical, it's in so many ways the opposite. There's so many rules. It's already been there. You're trying to reach perfection. It's rote. It's hitting the exact note and all these things. It's rules-based. Very rules-based. And this other thing, creating new music that's novel and not been made, is the antithesis of that.

It's breaking every rule and experimenting The way I saw it was I'd come from a system where we were training to be the best players of the music, right? The best musician at the school was the musician that could play the best, literally had the best musicality, best technique, the combination of everything. Whereas at Berklee, I was all of a sudden in this environment where the best musician was the best creator, not necessarily the best player. Yeah, I mean, of course Yeah, you know, good players, everything.

In a dream world, you have both.

What I thought was the coolest was the person creating the music. Everyone has a different voice. Everyone plays differently. It wasn't necessarily about who had the best technique. I was so in awe of the storytellers and the people that could make me feel something and the ones who'd found their own lane. And I was like, I need to do this. So I think I realized quickly that I should just lean into what I'm good at and what I love, which is I loved singing songs from the Great American Songbook. I love classical music. String arrangements can totally be transferred into that. And then I just needed to live a bit of life to write, and I started dating for the first time, and I was so heartbroken. I was talking to this guy who did not give a shit about me, and he was also much older, which in hindsight I'm like, ew.

Are we talking like 5 years older or 15, 20?

He's like 6 years older.

Okay, okay, okay. But when you're that young—

Yeah, I'm like, I'm 26 now, and looking back, like, I would never with like a 19-year-old. Like, yeah. Anyways, it was my first brush with rejection, which is so hard.

You had been avoiding that your whole life.

I had been avoiding that my whole life, and I think I was so scared of it, and then it came and it was worse than I could have imagined. Yeah. But then you have something to write about. Oh, true. Genuinely, for 3 months I could barely get out of bed, and it was also a couple of different things that played into it, like being away from home and not being sure who I was as a musician.

As you're saying this, I just got to say, it's the most unavoidable part of a human life. I remember graduating. I was going to do one thing. I was in Detroit, and then I woke up there. I'm like, what am I doing? Like, just that panic of like, what am I doing? Where am I going to end up from like 18 to 24? And you can't sidestep it. It's fast forward. You got to just go through it.

You got to walk through the storm, and it's a storm for almost everybody. It is. Yes. People think going to Berklee is some sort of magical button or highway to Hollywood. And it's absolutely not. The best thing I think you can get from Berklee is it's a nest to discover who you are as a musician, to try out different things, to collaborate with the people around you. Like, the real wealth, I think, is the other students there who are coming from all corners of the world and bringing different lessons with them.

It's like a safe place to walk through crazy painful. I think so.

It's a safe place. It's a really expensive place too. Yeah. You know, so it's really scary for a lot of people being at Berkeley and trying to figure it out. When I think about the artists who have really succeeded from Berkeley, it's really social media. You know, you can collaborate with the people around you and then you use social media. That's what happened to me.

Tell me how in your senior year you write this song that ends up, yeah, being number one on Icelandic radio.

Number one on Icelandic radio is so— Dude, that's crazy. It sounds so much more impressive than it is.

It is.

It is very impressive.

What are you talking about? If I was the number one song in Milford, Michigan, that'd be thrilling. That's where I'm from. Stop self-deprecating.

I want you to take on how cool you are. Yeah, yeah.

No, you guys, the population of Iceland is so small.

Who cares? It's still awesome.

I wrote this song called Street by Street. It was one of the first songs, if not the first song I wrote while at Berklee, where I was working through this heartbreak, and it was the first, like, heartbreak song I wrote. It was a movie moment of healing. I wrote many of the lyrics in a bus leaving Boston because I was escaping to New York because I couldn't do it anymore. I was like, the whole city's tainted. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, I remember that. I remember that.

Those feelings. And looking back, it wasn't that dramatic, but it felt so painful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wrote down the lyrics. It's like, street by street, I'm gonna take back my life, kind of, because it, it had taken over my whole life. I was so depressed for this very small— I'm not gonna call it a small reason. I was feeling so terrible, but it was ruining an entire city for me. So I wrote these lyrics down, and it was the most healing thing. And then I ran to get a guitar when I got back to Boston. I was in this dorm room that had a view of the city, and I wrote the first lyrics and it was like, "This view used to bring a smile to my face and now it makes me disgusted." That's not the exact lyric. I'm paraphrasing.

You're paraphrasing yourself. I'm paraphrasing. This is rare.

And then the chorus is like, "Street by street, like brick by brick, I'm gonna take back my life." Yes. "From the Back Bay to the sky." I just wanted to claim ownership of this thing that this guy had kind of ruined for me. And it was It was like I snapped out of my depression. I mean, it probably took a couple of days, but in hindsight, it felt like I snapped out. I was so excited. I was like, oh my God, I found my sound. Wow.

You took something that you were powerless in, which was the relationship, and then you turned it into something you had total power over, which was the output, this song. So it transferred from powerlessness to powerful.

Yes. And I was so excited. Because not only had I lyrically found that it helped me, but I had found a way to use the chordal language that I was used to from the Great American Songbook and put it into a song that still felt modern, like it still felt new.

So maybe more impressive to you than the Icelandic number one is that Billie Eilish noticed this song.

She didn't. She didn't? I did a cover of her song called "My Future" a couple months into the pandemic. And I did all these harmonies because it's such a beautiful song. It's one of my favorite songs. Have you worked with Finneas? I'm just a fan from afar. And they're both so sweet, and they have done wonders for pop music. I genuinely feel like what they did for pop music helped me even be able to have a moment. Oh, yeah, yeah.

I think so, yeah.

Absolutely one of those musicians that created that space so that me and many other musicians could come in and thrive.

Be melancholy and pop.

Be melancholy and pop and dissonant and have these jazz chords. And My Future totally had that. So I did a cover of that and she posted on her story. Oh, okay.

Okay. It wasn't Street by Street. No, no, no.

I think that got lost in translation somewhere, and that was just me being a true fan.

Okay. And then so on the back of that, you put together Everything I Know About Love. No, you have an EP first.

I have an EP called Typical of Me. And this is where everything got really soupy with the pandemic. So I recorded the song Street by Street the day that we had to leave campus. This. Oh, March 2020. And that's a week or two into the pandemic is when my social media started blowing up. So it was all this kind of magical timing.

Yeah. Where did you retreat to?

To Washington, DC. So my parents moved to Washington, DC January of 2020. Oh, what a blessing. Great timing. But I went back to DC into this house that I did not recognize, never been there before. I thought it was going to be a 2-week break from school. Yeah. And I said to myself, I was like, okay, I'm gonna I used these 2 weeks to just post videos of myself singing, playing cello. I would play cello and sing jazz standards, and then I'd also in between post songs that I'd written. I did it almost every day, every other day. And I think people were like, why is this young woman singing these songs from the '40s or the '30s? With a cello. With a cello, yeah. And it was one of the very few moments I've said I'm gonna do something and it actually worked. Works. And I just kind of stuck to it. I figured out that if I stayed consistent and communicated with the people who were following me, it became this community really quick. I would do weekly live streams as well. I called them my Sunday Lullaby Series. Every Sunday I would sit down and I would just sing, and there was like a chat going on, and people were from all over the world, and we'd be talking about like, oh, like, what's COVID like there?

And it was such a beautiful community that it started with, and I And I think that's the reason it's flourished into the community that it is today. I feel so close to my fans, and I hope that they feel close to me too, because it's been this kind of continuous conversation from the beginning. And I literally would write a song that day, and I'd play a little bit of it, and then that song would end up on my EP, and people remember when I'd written it.

They probably felt a lot of ownership over that first EP.

Yeah, and they should, because so much of the information that they were giving me, whether they liked it or not, going into—

it was some weird version of performing live in a way, because you're getting feedback, which is rare. I am struck by the fact that there's so many overlaps in a lot of these musical stories. Like, I'm thinking of Anderson.Paak, who was saying he drummed in church. He wanted to be a rapper. Well, first he wanted to be a DJ, then he wanted to be a rapper, and then out of like not having a drummer, decided to play the drums while he was also performing. Then he does Tiny Desk. And never anticipating, oh, the drumming and singing is what people are like, oh wow, okay. And it's not just that it's a gimmick. I think there's something we can detect that we know that's Anderson. Like, he's always been a drummer. He's supposed to be drumming and singing. Yeah. And I think like this cello thing is very similar to that, which is like, it gets your attention, but it gets your attention for a lot of ways. I think there's something we can detect in that.

That's authentic as fuck. I think it's because nobody would ever consider picking up a cello and singing at the same time as something that would result in any type of viralities. But it's you. It's very you.

It's you to your core.

The more you can believe in everything.

It comes from a very honest place, and it comes from true love for the instrument.

So then it happens pretty quick. Then you do Everything I Know About You, your debut album, in 2022. So 2 years into the pandemic, and then 2023, Bewitched. Comes about, and "From the Start" is on that album. Yes. Which is enormous. I was listening to it today, and it has over a billion streams on Spotify alone. How does one experience going from college 2 years before to a Grammy-winning album? How are you keeping up with it ratcheting so quickly? I think I'm still playing catch-up. Yeah, I What was your sister saying about all this? 'Cause you guys have diverged. She went to Scotland, you went to Boston, and now all of a sudden you're winning a Grammy. Is she like, "Hold on a second. Should I have gone to Berkeley?" We've gone through the whole thing together.

She immediately became my creative director for free and for fun first, and then it actually became a need of mine, and she fulfills it so well. So she's extremely involved in everything. Anything that goes out into the world, world she's touched, except for the music. But even the music, she plays violin on it sometimes. So the biggest blessing is I've felt like I've gone through it with my sister, and we share a face in a sense. So even the really new kind of weird parts of getting recognized, the first question people ask me is almost always, "Are you Yunia or Leve?" Yeah. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And, "Which twin are you?" Or they'll go, "Are you..." Although I think that's maybe because my name's hard to pronounce.

Well, the spelling, I don't know how we get— Loibé from, well, A-U-F-E.

Quite the spectacle it's become. I'm sure. Oh, God. A-U is just A in Icelandic, and that's the— I don't know. I've been seeing people on the internet making fun of my name, and I'm kind of like, at the end of the day, it's my government name. It's your name. And it's my great-grandma's name. And it's funny because it's such a normal name in Iceland. It's a little weird here.

Interestingly, this is my question for later, but we're here. I'm going to ask it now. So she is the mother of Loki, the Nordic mythological mythology god of mischief. But you don't seem very mischievous. And this goes back to the childhood. Is there some mischievousness?

For sure there is. Yeah. What's secretly going on?

Also, how are you updating your self-esteem and thinking no boys liked you, and now obviously probably tons of boys are liking you? Oh, you still don't think they are? No. Okay, so we haven't caught up yet.

We're still not— I was gonna ask that too, like, what's your current relationship with with the dating, with how people see you?

I'm very happy and in love right now. Oh, you are? Oh, good. Wonderful. It's working out. I love that. It's all fine. So we've updated ourselves. We've updated ourselves. Yeah, for sure. I feel so much more confident. To your point earlier with the mischievous, I think people read from the world that I'm this very kind of like poised, very even-toned person. And I'm not. I'm a Taurus, first of all.

Monica, what's that mean? Tell us what that means. A little stubborn, right?

A little stubborn, but I guess more so I'm just very calm. Oh, I have a very calm demeanor.

Because I whipped up this whole thing, right? I don't know you. I've never met you. I'm like, to get to this level of musicianship, the amount of work and perhaps the loneliness. And then I hear you. Yeah. And you're so even-tempered in all these interviews. And my— My thought is, is there a rascal in you that is trying to claw out? And do you love being inebriated? Do you love— it's like an escape. Yeah. But I think I might just be entirely wrong about the original assessment. I don't think you're as Type A as I thought.

Maybe you're so not Type A. I have a lot of problem focusing. I do think that is short-form content's fault though. Yeah. But I'm not as Type A as people think. I'm really chronically late. You were late today.

That's true. Yeah.

Do you like to get fucked up? I do. I do care so much about my tour, my career.

Both can be true.

Both can be true. I care about showing up for people, so I'm not gonna get wasted and not show up to a concert. That's kind of what that part is. But I'm like an anxious mess, and that's something I really wanted to show with my album, A Matter of Time. There were a lot of moments in that album where people were quite shocked. Because I was writing a little more honestly about things. Like, the end of the album is just noise. We were just throwing instruments, like, sounds at them, pounding on instruments for the end, because I wanted to kind of break out of this perception. But my demeanor reads quite differently.

Yes. How did you take to— because right after Bewitched, you start your first, I would imagine, world tour. Yes. And how do you take to that? I feel like you were built for it because you were bouncing all around the whole world already. But again, long lease. What was the tour experience like?

I love playing concerts. I love going on stage. I make music so I can go on stage. That is what fulfills me. I know my purpose when I'm on stage.

The stage is you're getting fucked up. So I was also noticing, like, you're so even-tempered, but your wardrobe is incredibly flamboyant. And exuberant. And I was like, okay, that's one of the releases, is like, I'm Steady Eddie, but then I have this really flashy and exuberant wardrobe, and I'm on stage doing this thing. So it sounds like maybe the stage is where you get to let it rip.

I feel like I am the prime version of myself.

Yeah, your truest self.

My truest self, my most honest self on stage, and I can let go of a out of the shackles around me.

It's funny, it's almost counterintuitive. It sounds like when you're on stage you feel no judgment. Yeah. And in life you're a little more— exactly. In life you might be afraid of judgment. Not really.

I've let go of the fear of judgment. I genuinely don't care what people say about me. I get so much, especially recently, people are like, who the fuck is this girl that's singing jazz? And they like can't stand it or something like that. It doesn't touch me because is I know I'm being my most honest self. That would only touch me if I weren't being honest. Yeah. And I weren't being authentic.

This is the part of the interview where I psychoanalyze you really quick. Please, please psychoanalyze. One lyric. Yeah. Okay, so in Madwoman, which the music video just came out, it's fantastic. It's very '60s. It's very Bewitched. It is. Yeah. One of the lyrics is called me stupid as a mindless joke. This is what the guy said. Yes. And so I went, he was nagging you, this guy that the song's about. Back to the feeling insecure, feeling ridiculous to even have a crush. Do you think initially when you're finding your confidence in dating that you were susceptible to that? Someone confirming your story about yourself?

Insecure in love. I'll put it that way. I'm very secure everywhere else. Very insecure in love. Yeah.

And I would imagine you're very vulnerable to someone Identifying that and leveraging that against you, confirming your fears whether they even think it's true or not.

Yeah, I always think guys are thinking much deeper than they are, but they aren't. Called me stupid as a mindless joke. It was probably a mindless joke, but I was like, oh my God. Yeah, you took it. He recognized a part of me that is not good.

Who's the hunk in the video?

He looks like an Asian Glenn Powell. Yeah, Hudson Williams.

Hudson Williams. Oh my God, He's a huge, huge star.

Does he not look like Glenn Paul a little bit?

I don't know if he looks like Glenn Paul.

Okay, I'm wrong about that.

He's in— he did Rivalry, like the biggest show on television. Yeah, yeah.

I'm so sorry, everybody. Upset. I hadn't watched Rivalry and I was looking, I was like, you should.

It's a big deal. He's so great.

He is a hunk. The body looks great, the wink is on point.

The perfect Madman for the music video. Yeah. And I gathered 3 of my friends who are all Wajin, as they say, half white and half Asian.

Oh, that's the term Wajin. Wajin is the term.

Okay. Yeah, I thought it'd be funny because I sometimes get mistaken as other girls who are half Asian and half white. Sometimes I'll literally like get tagged in like so.

Oh my God. Instagram.

It was kind of a joke. I went to the Golden Globes and for some reason halfway through the carpet. It was a really long carpet, and it was like an obstacle course. It like went up and down and up. And I was up at the last part, and they start going, Megan! Megan! I don't know what— I think people were screaming like, Lei Wei! And maybe one photographer heard Megan or something like that. I don't know. Or maybe there was a Megan coming after me or before me. Either way, or they maybe thought that there's a girl in this group Cat's Eye called Megan who's also half Chinese and half She's Weijian. And we could pass as sisters. She is a beautiful young woman and does not want to be compared to a 26-year-old, and I will not compare her to a— Oh my God, how dare you?

We just died. Both of us just died inside. She's enjoying—

this bitch turns 27 in a week. So she's like relishing her 26th birthday.

I'm relishing in my 26th. Yeah. She is like this incredible dancer, singer. But I'm also friends with her, and her name is Megan. It kind of became this joke that they were like, oh my God, they're friends. Mixing us up, and it became this internet joke. People started commenting Megan, like, oh my God. So I was like, I have to have Megan in a music video with me. And then I had Alyssa Liu, gold medalist. Amazing. Her short program was to my song.

Did you tell her you were a figure skater when you were a child? I did. That was the fourth endeavor, also too much.

I did everything. I had so much fun. She is an incredible an incredible artist, and her message to the world is so beautiful. And she came back to skating after being away from it for a bit, and she used my song that I wrote about a boy. Oh, really? But interpreted it as— the song is about needing distance from something, but you love it. And she interpreted the song as her relationship with skating. She came back and she won the gold medal with it.

Oh my God. Did you feel so— were you like, this is—

I would love that. I sat there like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. She'd been skating to prom. Promised for a couple months. And so I reached out to her, connected months ago, and she came to my concert in Oakland. And so I've known her for a bit, so I of course had to have her too because she's also half Chinese. Yeah. And Lola Tung, who plays Belly on The Summer I Turned Pretty. Oh yes. I've been friends with her for like 4 years, and I love her so much. And even before she did The Summer I Turned Pretty, the first year I was releasing music and nobody knew who I was, she had messaged me. She was like, oh, we kind of look the same, and she sings so beautifully too. She said that she liked my music. She's just like sent me a DM. Oh, and I didn't notice it, which is weird because back then I saw everything. And then a year or two later, the summer I turned pretty came out, and I was of course stalking her Instagram. Yeah, and it was growing so fast. I saw that she followed me, and I was like, oh my God, I gotta DM her.

Like, we're both Asian. And it opened up this message that she had sent me prior, and I was like, wow, This is Kismet, and she is genuinely one of my favorite people that I have met in this industry and is one of the most elegant, poised, kind people that I have met. A true gold of a human being.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

All these girls that I know. I was like, it's just fine.

You just answered my question because I was going to ask you how it has been falling in Hollywood to young, hot, everyone's got style lifestyle of LA, given the previous security level in high school. Like, has it been easy for you to drop in and be a part of it?

It's like going back to high school. Yeah, right? Every red carpet, I'm like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God.

You just played Coachella, and I was looking at a lot of pictures of people who went to Coachella, and I was looking at I was like, I'm just not young and hot enough, and I don't dress well enough, I think, to attend Coachella as much as I would like to go. Everyone is looking peak. And I was thinking, how are you in that environment?

I think style is all about who you are and how you carry yourself. The coolest girl I know who has the best confidence and aura, that is style to me. She could wear a t-shirt and cutoffs and I'd be like, wow, I'm gonna copy that. Yeah. So that and Coachella really showed that to me. No matter what, if you are a shitty person, your outfit's gonna suck.

Yeah, that's so true.

Yeah, but if you are a really kind and lovely, hot energy person, you can wear whatever you want and you will have the best outfit. Okay, that's encouraging, right? So you go and you carry your confidence out. Okay, okay, great. But as a musician, I'm currently in between the two weekends, so this is raw. Yeah, it's very raw.

I know, I feel like we're getting a hot take.

I was Sunday night, so I'd seen Sabrina Carpenter, I'd seen Cat's Eye, I saw Bieber.

What did you think of that? I saw clips of it and I was like, I really I really wish I would have seen that.

It was awesome. Also, just being a part of that. Yeah, I've never— oh my God, I couldn't. You know, there's like an artist pit and a VIP pit. There are all these different— yeah, everything completely— like, you couldn't get in. My takeaway from Coachella— this is my first Coachella— is GA is the way to do it. General admission. General admission.

Oh, okay, tell me more.

The screens are huge and the music is carrying. If you can just be in the back with your friends, dance around with a little space, you can take outfit photos. You can go run to the bathroom, you won't lose your place. You can go get a taco and not lose your place. That is, I think, the move. Okay. Also, the toilet situation is shitty no matter who you are, so you may as well be NGA. Yeah. So you were in the way back? I was in the way back for Bieber and it was amazing. And then I had to go check out my stage and I went all the way around and I was by the outdoor stage, which is kind of further away from main stage, and there was no one there. And I watched Bieber from so far away. Just the end when he started like going through all his old hits. Yeah, I had the time of my life. Oh, time of my life. But I was vocal resting and wearing a mask, so I was kind of like just emoting. Okay. Yeah, you let your body do the talking. I let my body do the talking.

Yeah, but I love it as a concertgoer. I admittedly don't get nervous when I go on stage at all, especially when it's my own concerts, because it's such a unique thing. I think people are confused about what the experience of a Loewe concert is like. Do we stand? Do we sit? Do we sing? Do sit in silence? Is this a theater show? Is this an arena show? What makes sense? I feel like I've really balanced it out, and it makes a lot of sense in my show. It's very cohesive, your arena.

You've got ballerinas, you've got the jazz setup.

But we're in an arena, and we can move around. There's a pop portion of the show, there's the jazz portion, there's the more classical bit. And an arena, you can kind of morph into whatever you want. And then obviously, I feel a theater is always lovely.

So are you happy with the way it went?

The festival, by the time I got to my set after seeing all of these incredible acts.

Oh yeah, I would not want to see that before I perform.

Yeah, it's scary.

First of all, I was like, "I gotta lock in," 'cause they were all so incredible. But also, I kind of got in my head. I was like, "Is this a place for me?" I would too. I was like, "Are people going to be okay that this isn't necessarily going to be a mosh pit?" Well, also, just acknowledge what it is.

You're with the best of the best. Yeah. And the audience is there for everybody, somebody, nobody. Your audience, you walk out in the arena, these people love you.

View. There's a lot of discovery going on, which is super exciting. And I got a little nervous, completely melted away after the second or third song. But when I came out first, also it was a little cold and windy. There's all these natural elements that you're— all day they were like, we don't know if we can do the pyro, which I had pyro in the end.

Oh, fun.

All day they were like, we don't know, we have to chain up the castle because I have a castle on stage. They're like, we gotta chain it up, it's windy. So I was like, I have no clue what this stage is be like— and I don't play many festivals for that reason of I really like creating a community that fans get to come into and feel safe. Yeah. And on tour I have so much control over that. Whereas like at Coachella— but I want to play Coachella. My whole goal as an artist is to introduce people to my music, to my sound, and as many people as possible. And Coachella is absolutely the place to do it. And I want to be on those stages. I want to be in front of those people. So it was daunting But after the second song, I was like, okay, this is fine.

I know what to do. Yeah.

And I love performing, so I really settled into it. And it was so cool to get to hopefully turn some new fans onto the music. And there was a K-pop group on after me called Big Bang. They're like legends. And all of their fans were in the front, which was also daunting because I kept accidentally like looking at them being like, oh no, are they disappointed right now?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And were they super young? Am I crazy to think the K-pop audience is going to be pretty young?

Yes and no, but Big Bang's been around for a while. They're kind of like the OG K-pop group that has really like made it in the West as well. So they were a little older than I thought, but my audience is very young. If anything, my Coachella audience was older. Oh really?

Yeah. Are you going to do anything different next weekend? What's next weekend?

Also, Coachella. It's still going? Oh, I'm in between Coachellas. That's why it is so raw. Yeah.

And is it the same performers?

Yeah, you'll play again. That's the whole point is like, this is a big moment. We're getting you right now. Yeah.

My head's spinning. It goes on for 2 weekends. 2 weekends. But people come home, I guess.

Yeah. I mean, how else was I supposed to do? I'm chair expert.

Well, I know exactly. We got, we got you. So lovely. But so anything you're gonna make any changes? Are you happy? You wanna just do it again?

I say you don't change the castle around this time and see if it blows away.

See if it blows away. I have a swing on the top of the castle too.

Oh my.

I had to chain the swing down because I would have like fly off. I loved it so much, so I don't think I'm gonna change much. I'm gonna have a different outfit. Oh, fun! I'm really excited to just go knowing how it feels. You can't sound check at Coachella. You don't get to feel the stage. I got to see the stage before, but other than that, I didn't get to move on it or try the instruments or anything. So you're really going into a completely new environment. But now I'll record. You'll know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What a cool thing to check off the list. That's a huge thing as an artist.

Okay, now I do not mean musically when I ask this. I more mean just trajectory. Is there an artist that you're like, that's the road I hope I'm on? Is there someone that you idolize in this space that you kind of want their trajectory?

I don't think so, because the second I stopped playing that game with myself I started to succeed.

Meaning stop trying to get someone specific.

Figure out whose road I was gonna walk, if that makes sense. Yeah. I want longevity. I think that's my main goal. I love doing this. I don't want it to go away. Music is something that can follow you forever. I'm not a football player that has to retire. There's so much beauty to that. So as long as I love it, I'm gonna keep doing it.

It. Okay, really quick, you wrote a children's book. I wish you would have brought it or someone would have sent it to me.

I should have brought it, yeah.

Is it Mei Mei the Bunny?

Mei Mei the Bunny. Aw.

Tell me about Mei Mei the Bunny. Why were we encouraged to tell her story?

Mei Mei the Bunny is a little bunny who is playing violin, learning the violin, and she has her first concert. Stressful. And she's nervous. Sure. Lots of butterflies in the tummy. Yeah, uh-huh. And she has like an anxiety dream the night before her concert where it all goes horribly wrong. Oh, huh? As we've all had. And she learns that making mistakes are not always bad, that you can redirect it into something beautiful.

We love that for Mei Mei and for all of us.

What's the Japanese word? I know we're gonna get it.

Kintsugi.

Kintsugi! The imperfections are the beauty. No, it's not. And then, of course, A Matter of Time, there's a special version that just came out.

There is. The final hour.

The Final Hour. And you just finished your World Arena Tour. How many cities did you go to?

I've done the US and Europe. I think we're over 50 now.

Wow. Laveh, this has been incredible. I'm really glad that we got to meet you, and especially that you took time in between these two shows. I didn't realize it was double weekend. I'm so excited to meet you.

I'm so happy to know about Hudson.

The only thing I'm bummed about is, are you gonna play on Sunday again? Yeah. Okay, 'cause I'm mad 'cause you can't party. Yes.

Okay. Nobody talks about this, and I've discovered the absolute horror— no, not the horror, the sadness of playing on Sunday night. Yeah. It's beautiful because you get to send people off into the night. And for me, that is my perfect slot. In the evening, in the dark, as one of the final little shows. It's cozy. It's a little more, like, romantic. Everyone's eardrums are out. They're all hungover. Like, it's a good place to be. You can stand with have a glass of water and not get moshed on, right? Yeah. But I had to vocal rest Friday, Saturday. I didn't go to the festival Saturday, save for Bieber and going to see the stage. But I was like, wow, this sucks. Like, if I played Friday, you could— I could party all Saturday, Sunday.

You have a whole week to recover. Outfit pics, is that what you call them?

Yeah. I was not doing that. I was so stressed a little bit because I was like, oh my God, I'm gonna get sick.

Yeah.

Or also, you get to the desert, it's new conditions, you're super dry. I was wearing a mask.

Do you blow in the bottle with the straw that we saw? Yes. Marcus Mumford do?

Yeah. Yes.

Yeah, we love— oh, this vocal straw is very important.

Yeah, I want to get one just for fun.

I know, me too. It looks cool and it sounds cool.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, my only regret is that I did not make your sister bring her violin and you the cello. I would have loved to see these sisters play the strings.

You do not want hear us play in our current state. I bet we wouldn't know.

It would sound perfect to us. You would know, we would have no idea. Yeah. If you guys could play like Uptown Girl by Billy Joel on it, we would be like, oh, she's like, that's the hardest song in the whole world. That was a callback because she played with Billy Joel at the Grammys. Yeah, yeah, it was very funny.

I did play cello with him.

All right, well, good luck on everything. Thank you. Look for Mei Mei the Bunny. Get the new re-release of A Matter of Time.

Go on that YouTube, watch the Coachella set. Sets. Are those all on YouTube? They are, I think, right? They are.

Just skip the first song.

Yeah, just skip the first song.

Skip the first song. Keep it moving.

Go to when you're really saddled. Once you got in the saddle—

look, we can all relate to that. Sometimes it takes a second. I'm sorry it was cold.

I'm sure it was amazing. It's a desert. It's a hostile environment. All right, well, good luck with everything. It was lovely meeting you. You too. You too. I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong. Uh, we were sent this. Oh, and this is super cute. Oh, these are, um, chocolate-covered Oreos. Oh, there's, um—

that's so cute—

the Lincoln peeling out on a s'more. Oh yeah, Utopia Sweets. And here's one, Monica. Can you see? You can't see.

I definitely can't see.

This is you and I holding microphones somewhere. There you go, Rice Krispie treat.

We were at a restaurant. We won a real award and we were accepting it and we were answering questions.

Yeah, look at this one. This is us back in the saddle upstairs. Good catch.

Oh, this is— you need my glasses? No, this is the good old days from upstairs.

Wow.

Cute. Very cute. Thank you, Utopia Sweet. Yes, it's so adorable.

What is this guy? That's really cute. Can you— can't see that.

I can see it's a chair, I think.

It's a microphone. Here we go. Catch. 1, 2, 3.

Another great catch. I'm so good at catching.

Ding, ding, ding. I saw some video where they were saying for your brain, a good exercise is this. This trainer makes the people bounce a ball off a wall, but with one eye covered with an eyepatch? Oh, never. And I mean, this is, this is now a brag. I didn't see it going this way, but I was like, oh, I got to start doing that. I want to make sure both sides of my brain are working.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I brought two eyepatches up to the gym today and I ordered white tennis balls so they wouldn't leave a mark on the wall. Oh, smart. And I didn't. It wasn't. I wasn't hard.

Really?

I don't know if that's a good— that must be a good sign. I must be doing something else because the person that was being trained was like, they had to get there. All right. Once your one eye is covered.

Covered, but it went really good. Okay, but this is tricky because like, okay, you might just not be good at catching a ball even with two eyes open.

Well, again, you could set your baseline with your eyes, both eyes. Can I do this a lot? Can I do four? Can I throw with one hand, catch with the other, back and forth? That would give you a sense of how good you are, right? But let's say you could do it 6 times in a row with your eyes, both eyes, and then you, you couldn't do it with one eye. Wow. I don't know, I'm into shutting one eye down.

Great.

Yes, crazy update. What? I had it again last night. Uh-oh. So I was like, I think you're sick. No, it's not that, because it was so specific. Really? And then I reverse engineered.

We're talking about Hannes.

People are gonna love this. People who hate peptides are gonna love this.

Oh no, hold on, let's go back in time. Let's tell people what happened.

Yeah, we went to a screening of a movie, the three of us. Yes. And Rob and I ate popcorn. And then I also— you described the Milk Duds I ate.

Okay, so yeah, we went to a cool screening where there's like treats, not like these treats, worse treats. None of us, no pictures of us on any of it. And, uh, Dax likes Milk Duds in his popcorn, and they had Milk Duds, and it was like, are you gonna get Milk Duds? I just might get Milk Duds today.

How exciting. I'm gonna be naughty, I said.

Yeah. Muddy. And then he opens the Milk Duds, plural, and turns out it's just one enormous Milk Dud congealed together, but with like a dust on it.

Like, this has been there since chocolate gets really old, you know, it gets that dust.

But it congealed. And I have to— because you got to brag a second ago, I want to brag right now, okay? You started to pull one off and put it in your mouth, and the restraint—

oh, good job.

I know. Yeah, thank you. I wasn't even gonna tell you.

Okay, great.

But here we are. Yeah, where I wanted to say, no, do not eat that. Please don't eat that.

Yeah, this is clearly very old or has been through some weird heat cycle.

Exactly, exactly.

And I just want for the listener to know, if the box of Milk Duds is like 6 inches long, the congealed mass was only like 3 inches. Like, it was only— maybe it was a small brick, maybe even a burped the box and it was a brick, but I could see fissures in there where the old duds had formed. I know. So I broke one off. And you ate it. Yeah, I did have very few. I think I probably had like 7. Okay. Just enough to give me that little sugar pop to make the popcorn even better. So it was a great movie. We loved it. You'll hear about it. Really great movie. I loved it. And then, um, got home, did my nighttime routine, which involves Pepto-Bismol. Uh-huh. And, um, now here's something I, I, I, I, I kind of just ignored in my analysis. So yeah, when I came in yesterday, I had to report to Rob and Monica that at about 2 AM I woke up, I was like, oh my God, I gotta go to the bathroom right now. I never have to go number 2 in the middle of the night ever.

That's not my— yeah.

And then when I did do that, it was, uh, it was an event, right? And then there were a few events, and it was, it was miserable. So I came in and I admitted to you guys— well, first I said, Rob, did you get sick? He said no. So I said, it wasn't the popcorn. I was convinced it was the popcorn.

I know, when you said that, I was like, oh, it's like a communal handle and communal everything.

It's just like, it's so simple though. It's popcorn and oil. I know, but it's, it's the handle. It's like peanuts on a bar. It's like you're handling this handle that everyone's dipping their hand, and they don't clean the inside of that.

All right, okay. It was just— so we all said it's the milk. It's obviously the brick you ate. Yeah, yeah.

And it made total sense, and I was like, yeah, that's it. So then last night I do my peptides again, and now when I'm laying in bed, I'm having like an excessive amount of saliva, and it's like driving me nuts because I'm trying to fall asleep. And when I was experiencing that, I did go, oh yeah, I had this last night when I went to bed, right? I'm like, what's going on? I'm allergic to something I'm doing. Fall asleep, fucking 1 AM, I gotta run over to the commode and I do the— I repeat the whole experience. And now I go, and you didn't have this issue at all during the day yesterday? So it's 100% either the barrage of vitamins I Right. At night. Yeah. Or one of my peptides. Okay. And here's my deduction. It's easy to make the case for the pills because I'm doing omega-3 fish oil and then I'm like, oh, is— has some of these fish oil pills gone bad? Oh, that kind of makes sense. Uh-huh. But then I'm like, but that's a really quick reaction. So then I go, oh, I started a new vial of a peptide on Monday night.

Oh, fuck. Well, and I'm like, that's what it is. There's something in that one vial.

But it's one you've been on for a while though.

It's a peptide I've used from my doctor for a long, long time. So it's not the peptide, just, you know, there's— you go through a bunch of vials. I was saying this morning to Kristen, it's like, you eat enough lettuce, you're gonna get Listeria on some of the lettuce. It's just like a numbers game. You just gotta wash it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But bacon, you know, anything you eat, you're gonna like—

it happens.

Okay, so Oh, that's most certainly what it is. So I guess tonight will be the trial. I will take all my pills, but I will not touch the other thing, and then see if I have any issues. So it's— now the problem is there's two that I started. Oh, fuck. So I just threw them both away. Okay, yeah, and then we'll start a new—

interesting. Yeah, I don't love the idea of peptides going rancid, you know?

Yeah, and I I don't know that that would be what happened. I don't think the peptide goes rancid. I think some contaminate was either on the rubber, you know, I don't know.

You clean it.

I clean it, but it's a big chunk of rubber. You've put a needle all the way through. I can't clean the inside of the rubber. I can't clean the underside of the rubber where it's, uh, inside the bottle. So just like when I got my shoulder surgery, they sterilized everything, and also they left left a bacteria in me that became a huge infection. So anyways, that'll make people happy that hate peptides. Okay, probably, I think.

Wow. Okay, well, now we have to apologize to the Milk Duds.

We do. I know, this is like kind of my formal public amendment.

Okay, Milk Dud. I, I guess that Milk Dud was not a dud like we thought. No, it was just fine.

I wish I still had that brick. I might get into it right now.

Yeah. Oh man. Yeah.

A lot's been going on at night. Oh, that I felt.

Well, hopefully tonight, new night, new night, fresh start, fresh new day. Now, if you have it tonight, we're gonna have to say it's the vitamins, correct?

Okay. And then the following night I own it. What I don't believe is that I have a virus that only strikes at 1. I agree.

1 AM.

If you would have it all day, immediately after I take all this stuff.

Yeah, no. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that doesn't make a ton of sense to me. And then I feel completely fine and I don't have the saliva thing and I don't have anything.

Yeah, throughout the day. Interesting. Weird. It's interesting. Um, speaking of that movie, which we're not going to talk about, but because we're going to talk about it later, I was saying this to you the other day, but I think it's worth putting out in the world. I just think there's something in the air right now storytelling-wise. Okay, marriage stories. Okay, they're everywhere. It's in the zeitgeist. It's like all the things I'm consuming are about marriage. Drama, beef, Strangers, this book that I read that's like everyone's reading, this movie we saw. It's like people are really commenting on marriage right now. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. I guess sometimes—

And mostly all negative, is that?

Well, I don't— I wouldn't say it's all negative. It's just like examining the union, what it means to be married. Uh-huh. Yeah. And I don't know, it's kind of wild out there. What do you think is—

what do you think set this ball? Exactly.

Like, what— I guess sometimes these things just happen. It's like when Armageddon and Deep Impact came out at the same time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wyatt Earp and Tombstone.

Yeah, I know what those are. Um, so, so Yeah, I just— because it's funny, because the movie that we saw, I actually thought you— during the beginning, I was like, oh, he's— he doesn't like this. Oh really? I thought you didn't like it because it was kind of at first like kind of a negative portrayal.

It starts with an Oscar Wilde quote, which is like, everyone deserves love, something like that. Yeah, that's why you shouldn't— that's why you should never get married, or something like Yes. Yeah, I'm not triggered by that. Like, if people hate marriage. Yeah. Or they had a bad marriage.

Yeah.

Um, again, probably because I don't have any insecurity on the topic. It's like, yeah, some people, some people have terrible friendships, some people have terrible parent-child relationships, some people have terrible marriages, we have terrible boyfriend-girlfriend situations. Yeah, that's par for the course.

I know, I just— because the portrayal was pretty like, eee, like at first, and I thought you were thinking that, oh, this like isn't a good portrayal of marriage, but then you loved it. So then that was interesting.

Yeah, I mean, what's kind of inherent is story is driven by conflict. There is no version of a story of a happy marriage. That story can't really be told. There's nothing there. You can tell the story of two people falling in love, them being challenged, and then the end is marriage. Or you can tell the story of marriage dissolving. But, you know, a movie about a good job, it's— that is not a movie. You need Devil Wears Prada. You need conflict. So you're never gonna get— yeah, the other version portrayed.

There's always going to be conflict. But like rom-coms historically end happily, you know.

Yeah, but the marriage is the end, right? You're not— and you never live in the marriage. You, you live in the story part, which is like getting to marriage. Yeah.

Yeah, great.

Marriage can be in the background and it can be portrayed as very happy and nourishing. Yeah, but it can't be the storyline, right, unless something happens to it. So my assumption is anyone who's going to tell a marriage story, it's going to be one filled with conflict. Sure. Or it's gonna be boring as hell, right?

It's just, it's very, it's, it's, it's in the ether. And as someone not married, I find it kind of fascinating that all of a sudden all these stories are popping up all at once.

Does it feel like confirmation to you? Like, oh, I wouldn't want to do that?

No, it doesn't. It doesn't feel like, oh, I dodged a bullet or something at all. I can see why that— some people would take that away from some of these things.

Absolutely. I think if you've decided you don't want to get married, any, any portrayal of it being terrible is confirmation for why you don't want to get married.

I know.

I also, interestingly, I I don't give a fuck who gets married. I think, you know, like a lot of different countries have transitioned still into lifetime pair bonding but not the title married. Now there is a reality, there's a statistical reality to the outcomes of being married which are also very true and kind of undeniable, like these bizarre health ones, you know. Yeah, like I just read one, like the cancer rate for unmarried people versus married is dramatically different and It's even higher for women.

I wonder if that has to— but I wonder if pair— like, if that's in the United States, because most people who are partnered for a long time get married, like the majority. Sure. So I wonder if in these other countries where they don't, what the stats would—

yeah, I imagine they need a category on these surveys that are like long-term pair bond. Exactly. What are their health outcomes? But I think, look, we have Vivek Murthy. There's so much great data about just being communal. Oh, yeah.

Loneliness is the greatest death. Yeah.

It's worse than smoking cigarettes. So it's like, okay, so that's— we don't know what that mechanism is, but we also can't deny the really stark data. And then the marriage thing, I don't know. I think you'd be inclined to go like, oh, because you tell each other to go to the house hospital. And I think that's a component of it. And you have another outside observer that might notice that your energy level's been low for 3 weeks when you're— it didn't even occur to you. So you have a co-pilot. Yep. But that's the, that's the mechanical, tangible part that I definitely think is part of it. But also there's another thing, we don't even know what it is.

Well, I think I know what it is. I think if you are happy, then you care about your health. So like, if you're happy and you're noticing like, ah, like I'm really tired, you're incentivized to go get that figured out. Yeah, because you want to live, you want to return to happiness.

Yes, exactly.

You notice when you're not happy. Yes, exactly. Um, but I, you know, I think, I think loneliness can be full, can be handled in a lot of ways, you know.

Um, but I also think like people can find purpose in it as well. Yeah. And that's like a huge driver of your life. Yes. And you can certainly find purpose in other things, but that's one sitting on the table in that situation. 100%.

Yes. I mean, look, on a, on a very, just very fundamental level, of course I've thought— okay, so last night, we won't talk about it because I know everyone hates dreams, um, but I just had like a series of horrible nightmares throughout the entire night. And I just like kept waking up after them and being like, oh, it's like still night. Like, this is horrible. I have those. It's so bad. And I have this weird thing happens to me sometimes where, tell me if you've experienced this or if the audience has, they can comment, I won't read it, where I'm like stuck in this pattern in a dream. Like, and then I'll wake up from the dream, but I'll still be in the dream, and I'm— but I've like woken up, and then the whole thing happens again, but I think I've woken up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's weird because when I lived in the apartment and this would happen, the, um, the dream, the being stuck, was about my house. Okay. Like, I would wake up at my house, and then things would happen, and then— but I— and I'd be like, no, I think this is a dream.

Like, I gotta up. Yeah. And then I would wake up and I'm still in that house. Yeah. Um, and it's like this bizarre thing that just keeps happening until I finally actually wake up. Right. But my dream last night was that, but it was in my apartment.

Oh geez. Okay, now we're going—

it was so weird, but it kept happening over and over and over again. And it's like horrifying because you, you think you're awake and you're not. Yeah. And I don't know what is. And so I did wake up and think, I wonder what's happening with my body and or my voice or anything during these things. Like, I wonder if I'm doing anything in real life.

In real life, someone's observing you in your bed. Are you talking? Are you— Exactly.

Or if like something was happening, could I be woken up? And I was like, well, I won't ever— for now I won't know that because no one shares a bed with me. Right. And that's like an example, even with the epilepsy, like the first seizure. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know.

Yeah. Your back hurt. Yeah. And I peed. Yeah. Yawn on the show.

And I, and I, yeah, everything hurt, but like no one saw. So even those things. Mm-hmm. Because, because when I was at a hotel with, remember I was at a hotel with Callie and she said that you called someone a stupid bitch in the middle of the night. I was like, oh my God, how often am I doing that? Sure. There's just moments. I mean, I think there's moments for both. I think when you're married, there's moments where you wanna be not married. And when you're single, there's moments you want to be married. It's a give and take.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. The problem with our current culture is things can be in the zeitgeist so much easier. So it's It's like you read that book. I don't know. You ordered that book. There's a paper trail on the internet of you having ordered that book. People buy that information. Then you see a post that's this. And now it's feeding you everything that's about marriage right now. And then it has the illusion that everyone's talking about it or making art about it. But it's like, also, you're missing all this other stuff. Stuff. This is for everyone. Like, all of our— yeah, interests are driven to us. Yeah, this feels a little different because it's like—

it feels objective, right? Well, no, it's just there are a lot of movies and shows right now that are about it. Even DTF St. Louis, I would say, is, is a relationship.

But then there's also some 60-year-old woman right now that is like— she's being fed the 4 different projects that are about child trafficking, right? And for her, it feels like child trafficking's the big thing. I'm really noticing it because my mom's here, and I'm really, really learning how much she's on her phone following links on this trip. The amount of stuff that she knows about that's going on in the government.

Yeah, it's an older person. I think there's a— I think moms and dads, they're doing that thing.

We keep talking about the youth, and I don't know that I don't know if that's the right focus. We live in an era where you can fill your entire day. There's like one thing that comes out about the courts, then there's a few things that are happening in Congress, then the Senate, then the president's doing stuff, then there's the DEA and the ICE. And there, it's just like, never in history have people been receiving more updates on what's happening with the government. And I think, although it's bad, but the onslaught of knowing of every little thing that everything a congressman said to another Congressman in a hallway. Yeah. Is at your disposal. Yeah. And it's just— I choose a lot. It's a lot, man.

But I do think, yeah, the older people— well, also you're retired. Like, what else? Like, if you don't have a job to go to all day long and you don't have to take care of or whatever, like, you may not have as much of a social life the older you get. Like, yeah, it's there.

It's a very convenient, easy source. Yeah. Of engagement. Exactly. But I think it gets you— I mean, I know— well, yeah, it gets everyone riled up. Profiting on— oh yeah, your outrage, the, the impact it has on your emotions. Yeah. And I just think you're turning over a ton of your emotional agency. Yeah, definitely. Oh, and it really—

but I just do think— I just wonder if there's any changing people once they hit a certain age.

Yeah, it's just hard for me to accept. It's hard, but in the same way, if I was watching my children go down a rabbit hole, I would feel very inclined to somehow try to intervene. I know, because I hold— as a family member, and I was really realizing this, this week, you have a very unique role in that you really do tell each other the truth. There's no protecting of the relationship in the way an interpersonal friendship, right? There's boundaries and there's a lot of shit's none of your business and you got to let people be who they are. But your family will tell you, your family My mama, she's here and she's looking at me, your hair is getting so curly in back. I would have never thought it was curly. I never thought it would have gone curly. It was so straight when you're a kid. And then it's on to the next thing and she's just scanning me.

Yeah, I know. They love to scan. Yeah.

And that's what family members do. Right. And of course, I'm reading so much Sedaris and so I'm hearing how they talk to each other. And so it's a gift in a lot of ways because they're just telling you, wow, I've noticed you're this way now, which is different from how I've known you to to be, right or wrong. Maybe that's a good change or—

yeah, yeah, yeah. But we'll—

family members tell each other.

I know, I tell each— I tell people. Sometimes it gets me in trouble.

Yeah, it doesn't really go well with friends.

Well, I guess depends on the friendship and the closeness and the trust.

But like, your parent will go, you're gaining—

you gained weight. Why do they do—

you've lost weight, you've gained weight, right? Why are they always doing that?

It's so— it is annoying.

It's— sure, but I also think it's an important mechanism in our life because it's someone— it's not a yes man, it's not a friend. Oh God, no.

Yeah.

And it's not bad to have some people in your life that are just like, hey man, here's what I see that's different.

Yeah, I think it— well, I definitely think it's not good to have like yes men. I, I very much believe that. But like, I don't know that anyone needs to just be— anyone, whether it's your family or not, needs to be like, oh, like, what's on your like, you, what, you, so you got a little like wrinkles now here. Like, it's like, no, I don't. Like, it does not. You can just keep your mouth shut about that. A little wrinkles here. Like, yeah, the physical. I'm noticing your chin.

The physical narration, I don't know, is helpful because what, what can you do? Exactly. Big shifts in personality, or I know you, or I notice you're sad lately more than you have been. Like, that's what family will tell you. Yeah. And friends don't always do that.

Yeah, I think they should though.

So it has an enormous value, right?

I think. Well, sure. Yeah.

Yeah. Even though it's, it's uncomfortable.

But we've talked about this before. It's like telling people they shouldn't do something, whether they're family or not, it doesn't work. Like if it's like, well, we even just had someone on and we were talking about, and it's coming up so we won't spoil it, but, um, a kid who got himself into a very bad situation and the parents were like noticing, but they can't be like, hey, don't do that, because that just makes the kid be like, fuck you.

Well, they were— they hadn't thrown up their arms in the air either. They were trying to ride the line. Sure. And they knew more than anyone that he had changed.

Well, of course, but the point is just saying like, hey, what you're doing is wrong, or this is bad, just straight up calling something out like that might not be the best support always. And in fact, like, doesn't work.

Yeah, which is interesting. There's times it's bad and times it's good, right? And certainly I have heard when my parents have made observations about me, and I have had to think about it one way or another. I might conclude I don't agree with them, or there's no value to what they're saying. Yeah. Um, but it forced me to take a minute to do a little inventory and examine if there's any merit to what they're saying, right? And most friends aren't even going to say the thing that would get me thinking that.

They should— not you, in general. Yeah, there's a tactful way to do it. There's a kind way to tell people, like, I'm noticing this about you, I'm concerned. Yeah. Um, I love you, so that's why I'm saying it. Like, I think that's— again, maybe because I, I invest a lot in friendship, that is like extremely important to me, to be able to to do and to receive it. Yeah. And again, like you said, like sometimes I'm like, well, I disagree.

Yeah, it goes right and it goes wrong. I'm just saying, like, sisters will look at each other and go, holy shit, you should never get bangs again, it looks like shit. Right now, no friend's gonna say that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But your sister's gonna just tell you the goddamn truth. Yeah, about that. And so that might be— you might go like, uh, you know, yeah, yeah, my brother's coming. What the fuck are you thinking with blank? Like, just siblings do that to each other.

Sure, sure, sure, they do, they do. Yeah, my brother's coming to visit tomorrow. Tomorrow? Mm-hmm. How fun. I'm excited.

With his lady?

Yes. Lovely. I know, I'm really excited.

Have you planned a bunch of things?

No, everyone keeps asking me that and then I say no and everyone's like, you know, doing the side eye.

Oh, I think that's fine. I just, I'm going to Nashville. Yeah. To have a guys trip with Aaron and Aaron. Oh, nice. Yeah, and so I've planned a bunch of stuff. Stuff that we may or may not do, right?

I normally am such a planner.

Yeah, we got a horse— I've, I've fucking scheduled us for horseback riding. Oh my God, simply because what none of us would want to do that, and I think it'll be so funny. Oh, it will just be something so funny about us all doing something that we don't want to do. Yeah, and also Aaron went horseback riding over spring break in Kentucky and he liked it.

Did you? So there's an untold Untold I watched yesterday about a horseback rider.

Oh, the one that just came out? Yeah, I love Untold. It's a great— all blessings Untold. They do such a good job. They really do.

But yeah, it made me— I'm like, okay, people are gonna be mad at me for saying this, but like, the horse world is—

it's an interesting world.

Specific.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. You've not watched the chess? You must watch the chess. I'm going to, I'm going to.

I love that. I love chess. I love not knowing how to play. I do want to learn how to play chess. I want someone to teach me.

The only bummer dumber with chess is unlike most other games where at least minimally for your ego you can go, I got bad cards, or I got a bad tile deck. Like, sometimes it's just luck. It is a battle of your brain. Yeah. And when you lose, you're like, oh, I'm dumber than this. It's hard. Yeah. You don't go like, oh, experience has a lot to do with this game, right? But I used— I had a, I had a spell and it was on my one of my favorite zones of life. Me and my friend Kareem, who's not with us anymore, we used to play chess, listen to Fiona Apple, and drink.

Fun. And can you drink while playing? Because don't you have to like think a lot?

You're probably not getting better at the game, but— and probably he didn't drink as much as I did, but I think he did other things that I wasn't doing. Point is, it was so lovely and we were so beautifully matched that it went back and forth. Like, no one left going like, yeah, I'm fucking every time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think that's what you're hoping for, a partner that's like, once in a while you're winning. Yeah. I mean, you got it. You're supposed to play with someone better than you if you want to get better.

Yeah, but if you want to have fun in this life. Yeah. Okay, let's do a little fact.

This is a fact.

Okay, this is for Leve. I'm very impressed by classical musicians. Yeah, I really am.

It's interesting. I wish I was one. I can see why that you would be impressed impressed by them.

Yeah, I think discipline is— yeah, you love— well, it's hard. The gymnasts. I'm impressed by, uh, ventures that have a level of talent, obviously, but what separates the good from the best are— is discipline. Yeah, I'm— I love that.

I know. Yeah, a lot of people do. A lot of people do. Yeah, yeah. When I look at— oh, I can't even really say my opinion of all of it. Like, it kind of came out in the interview, but it's like, yeah, the whole goal is to ultimately play this thing like a computer, like play the every single note perfectly on perfect pitch. There's a math to it. The music already exists. You're not— so that to me versus jazz improv, right, to me is like, wow, you— this is great. Wait, this parallels so many of our debates. It's like Neil Patrick Harris, that he would watch a woodworking video on YouTube and replicate the steps, and you were like, yes, that's great. Yeah. And I was like, why even woodwork if you're not— I know, being creative, what are you saying? Yeah, yeah. And then the reward of figuring it out for me, yeah, without instructions, so wonderful. Yeah. Um, but yeah, the notion that like you're going to replicate something perfectly is the Well, here's—

okay, I have a little bit of a difference. Okay. I think that, like, I like being taught. I like knowing the rules. I like knowing how to execute. I want to be perfect, but I also want all of that so that I can— we— I can— yeah, you can play a little on top of it. You can be a little, like, fun and playful on top of, like, the bedrock of perfection. Yeah, like the, the classic— like jazz to me is that they still know, like, they know music in and out.

And then they could never play in a symphony orchestra, right? Like, as great as Coltrane is— was— I don't know that he can be first chair in the Boston Symphony Orchestra for the saxophone.

That's true. Probably, maybe not.

Yeah, I don't think one's right or wrong. I just think it's funny which one you're drawn to. And for me, yeah, I can't imagine being proud of myself that I replicated something through lots of rote and that in its best version I played as good as this violinist from the 1960s everyone thought was perfect, versus on bodybuilding I kind of sound like shit but I like push an entire genre somewhere, right?

I don't know, I guess, yeah, different, but I don't think I'm trying to replicate anything. Thing, but I am trying to be good. Yeah, at what I'm doing. Like, yeah, like objectively good, right? And subjectively good. I want it all. You want it all. Don't we all? Yeah. Okay, what are the levels of weather warnings? Red is the highest alert level. Synonyms: extreme danger, warning signaling imminent risk to life, and widespread damage. Orange is the second level. Synonyms: severe, preparedness, watch, indicating severe weather that may cause significant localized damage. Looks like there's a yellow as well. Moderate, localized, short-term.

Good, look for those colors. I'm not even aware of this system. I've never seen the weather. I know, well, we live in LA, but even in Michigan I don't remember them saying like, there's an orange warning for a blizzard.

Yeah, well, this is in Iceland.

It's only in Iceland.

Well, I don't know, it might be other places too.

All that weather talk gave me a moment to really take in all the many things that are on your sweater. And it's a real hodgepodge. It totally works. But it's like, I'm looking at first, I see the deer in the corner. I'm like, oh, this is kind of an autumnal deal. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. But then I see what looks like a snowflake. But then I realized, no, that's like a spring tree. Yeah. And then, I mean, there's, and then there's some flowers. It's really anything the artist— there's a sheep. It's pretty gorgeous. I really like that. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. But it's a real hodgepodge of different images.

What do we think this one is?

Um, a javelina.

What's that? A wild pig. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, well, I think— or a pumba, the, um, warthog.

It also looks like a warthog a little bit. I think technically Yeah, what's the theme there? These are like, um, biblical images.

Oh, biblical. Okay, this is part of your conversion.

Yeah, I just— I'm trying to just sneak it in. No, I just loved the sweater, but I think it's like, uh, biblical animals. Okay, I guess all animals, I guess.

Yeah, uh, don't get me started on Noah's Ark. I want that to be real in a sense, but I want there to also be a Discovery documentary about what absolute pandemonium and AS there was.

Oh, what it would be. Yeah, I know, I know, I know. But you know what, and then the genetic diversity—

I don't know where the genetic diversity came from, from the animals. If there's only two, where's all this?

Well, they're mixing and matching.

Oh Jesus, interspecies. Yeah. And the bird— why'd this bird stay put?

Oh, like feet on the boat? Yeah, maybe they flew above.

So just the boat was cruising, it was just like every known bird was hovering above. Listen, okay, and these birds that have to live—

no, maybe not every— no, maybe all the birds weren't invented.

Bold of all the stories. And I understand they're all allegory or whatnot, and they're parables, and they're right, they're metaphors. Too hard about it, but it's a bold one to even pitch. It's like, go, go with me on this allegory. Why'd they pick two? So they could reproduce. They needed a male and female. Oh, right, to repopulate. The whole goal was to repopulate the planet after God murdered every single person on the planet other than Adam and—

no, um, no one is bride and his kids. Who's Noah's bride? I don't know.

But also, we're all descendants of just Noah incest because only their kids were here.

Even though that doesn't even make sense because they're supposed to be— there are so many. I'm just saying it's a tough one. Yeah. Noah's wife from the Bible apparently doesn't get a name.

She's just been referred to as Noah's wife.

Of course, women are, women are useless.

Her mom doesn't even have a name. No, not— Jesus Christ. They identify her as Nama or Emzara.

And how many kids did they have? I want to know how many of these kids were making love to reproduce the whole planet. I think every modern Christian would go like, hey man, that's— it's not— 3 sons. 3. Oh fuck. So they all had sex with the mom? Where did the fucking kids go wrong?

I don't think— I think there were some other people, like Mo— like Mo— Moses.

No, no, that's before. Oh, right. Yeah, so this, this was explained to me. The humans were having sex with the angels and they were creating fucked up creatures, and so God had to flood the entire planet and kill every single person and animal other than what was on Noah's Ark. Okay, okay, okay. And then those remaining animals repopulated the planet we live on. All right, so either Noah and the wife had many more kids after they— the, the waters subsided and those kids had sex, or the three sons had sex with the mom.

The three sons had their wives, apparently.

Oh, they had their wives?

Yes. Where did the wives come from? They were invited. They were adults?

Yeah, they were allowed to come on the boat.

Sons? So Noah's a grandpa?

Noah was tasked with, believe in me, start building this ark, I'm going to flood it. Everyone's like, you're crazy. Crazy. Get all the animals. Good luck. He gathered them all. People thought he was crazy. And then the flood came and killed everybody except for the people he had on the boat. So apparently his sons had wives. That helps with the genetic, genetic diversity. Yes. So I guess his cousins were making love in the second round.

Year-long catastrophic deluge sent by God to destroy humanity due to widespread wickedness. Only Noah, his family and pairs of every animal species survived on a large ark. It is considered a global event by believers and is historically linked to regional Mesopotamian floods.

Um, who are they? That's why that's a terrible— Noah's sons' wives. The Tigris and Euphrates constantly flooded. That's why it was a really relevant story.

Oh, 8 people survived the flood.

Okay, so we're all the product of 8.

We have the 3 sons we've got the wife of them, that's 6, and then I guess no one— the mom, I think it's the cousins took care of the rest. I want to learn more about the wives.

Me too.

I bet they were hot. I'm not so sure.

Um, okay, okay. What's the average height of an Icelandic man? 5 feet 11.7 inches, just shy of 6 feet.

What's the average height American.

Right now, an American man— we'll do Indian. Okay, 5'9" is American.

Okay, so they're 2.5 inches taller on average.

Okay, Indian is gonna be lower. Yeah, 5'5". 5'5".

So they're 6.5 inches taller on average.

Yeah, than Indian. Let's do Chinese. 5'6".8".

Taller than the Indians. Indians. Yeah, that sounds right to you?

Yeah, probably.

What about Philippines? Filipinos? Just so Rob feels seen. 5'4". 5'4". That's lower. That's our lowest so far.

Should I look up what's the lowest? Shortest?

What's the national average for men?

Yeah, Timor-Leste.

Okay, uh, island in Pacific. And that's 5'3".

5'3". Yeah. Oh, Yemen is also low. Laos, Liberia— not low, uh, uh, yeah, Liberia. Let's do tallest. Okay. Oh, I also typed in hortus instead of shortest.

Didn't figure it knew though.

So those are actually the shortest. Yeah. Netherlands, 6 feet 0.4 inches. Then we got Montenegro. I'm still above the average in, in the Netherlands. Yep. Montenegro and Estonia also top, top sees stretch limos. Okay. Okay. Now, was Charlie Puth doing sound engineering at Berkeley? Production and engineering, yes. Okay. Population of Iceland, 402,000 to 402,300.

That's a small city in the U.S. It's a small place.

And then the Presidential Scholarship. U.S. Presidential Scholars Program is a prestigious invitation-only non-monetary award recognizing up to 161 top graduating high school seniors annually for exceptional talent in academics, arts, or technical education. I know someone who got one. It was a big deal. Um, all right, well, that's it.

Okay, you know when I told Lincoln that I had a hunch she might like her.

Yep.

And she's like, oh my God, I love her, she has an identical twin. And I'm like, I know, she came. She's like, she did?

Yeah. And this was good, Sim, because the twin episode just came out. Oh yeah, yeah. Of Armchair Anonymous.

So that was perfect. Perfect timing, as if we scripted it. All right, love you. Love you.