Transcript of David Sedaris #6

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard, and I'm here with Monica Padman.

Hi.

Hi. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. 6th time.

It's our most. That's our most, right?

He's our most.

He's our most.

And he's our most favorite. We love David Sedaris. My parasocial friend.

That's right.

Your parasocial and social friend.

And kind of real friend. David is an author, a comedian, and a humorist. His books are Me Talk Pretty One Day, Santaland Diaries, Calypso, Naked, Happy-Go-Lucky, and he has a new book that is out now called The Land and Its People. I have read it. I love it. We love David.

We just love him. He does a reading for us.

He does some reading for us. Please enjoy David Sedaris. Oh, hello! How are you? Hello! Good to see you.

So nice to see you.

So good to see you.

Oh yeah, of course there's a downstairs. I was here last time. Do I sit right here?

Yeah, that's your spot. Oh, we knew you were going to come in the best outfit.

I tried to do something fun back.

That's as fun. It's really—

that's as fun as it gets. Are those board shorts?

What is that?

That's a term for like swimwear that's like for surfers, board shorts. No, no, no.

They're these Walter van Beerenbank. I have a problem with his last name, but he's this Dutch guy.

Okay.

But I was in San Francisco the other day and he made, it was like a lady's housecoat for men with this fabric. But the fabric is linen mixed with polyester. And I wore the, jacket thing. Yeah. And I was so sweaty. Oh yeah, it's hot. And then I thought it wouldn't work for my book tour because you're in, you know, a store and then there are a lot of people in there and then it gets hot.

So anyway. Oh, but that's so cute though. But you got the shorts instead.

But the ladies' housecoat was pretty good.

Yeah, it is good.

I'm confused though. Did you buy the ladies' housecoat and then have those shorts made?

No, no, no.

Oh, okay.

And the shorts too. Oh, okay.

And so I was like, while you're reading.

I don't mind being sweaty on the bottom.

Yeah, sure, sure.

You know? But I don't want to go into the bookstore and then be like wet. Wet with sweat.

Yeah, totally.

Do you pose for photos with people in the signings?

Never. Because otherwise that's all you do.

For the listener.

Yeah.

Otherwise it's all you do.

Right.

So I could either sign somebody's book and talk to them or have my picture taken. Sometimes I'm in the airport and someone says, can we get a selfie? I say, no. I say, but this person here can take our picture. I say, oh, I ran into my cousin in the airport. Can you take a picture of us?

And they're always happy to do it.

But the selfie thing, I don't know that there's anything about contemporary life that is more puzzling to me. That when you see somebody, you know the way you are, let's say in front of a mirror when you're alone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

To be that way in public. And when I see people and they're doing the angle of their head and all of that in public, I just feel like it'd be like a nightmare about being on a toilet in public.

Yeah, but you just get used to it. It's like the way of the world. This is how these people are making money.

Yes. Sometimes when I'm on the bus in England, I'll look over people's shoulder and they're on Instagram and all their friends look just like them.

I know everyone is starting to look like one thing.

So I was one time on a TV show with Ashton Kutcher. You know who he is? You know what he looks like?

Yeah.

So at one point we're sitting in a pickup truck, we're about to film a scene, and he goes, oh, you know, the fucking network asked us if we could take like a couple of like selfies while we're working. I was like, yeah, okay, great. And he just so cavalier, like holds the camera down at his hips and starts shooting up at us. There's only like a 3-degree angle where I look good. It's definitely above, but he has the freedom to shoot any angle he wants. And he shows that. I'm like, yeah, you look incredible in all these photos.

Look like a monster.

Can you imagine that kind of freedom though? Yeah, I don't care, aim the picture anywhere. Mount it on my shoes and shoot straight up at my nose. It'll look great.

I think that's how a stick insect would feel. Good from any angle.

Something has happened since you were last here. I can't imagine it has gotten to you, but maybe it has because you're on tour currently and there are often armchairs in the audience, right? You tell me.

Yeah.

Yeah. Which is lovely. Has it gotten back to you, this parasocial thing? My obsession with you?

Parasocial? What does that mean?

That is this like false sense of intimacy you can have because you consume, like, a podcast all the time. You're with them, it's about their lives, and you feel— you're very confused because you know so much about them and you're kind of living with them in your car and in private, and it feels genuinely like a relationship. And so over the last year, I think, since you've been here, I have become obsessive about— I listen to you every single night. I've listened to some of the books, like, 5 times now. Every single night for a half hour before I go to sleep, I'm relistening to all the things. And I've been growing more and more entrenched in these fantasies where I'm going to be with you in Normandy or somewhere. And I think, I would get along so well with you and your friends and all these conversations like, oh yeah, I could fit in perfectly. And I came and I had to admit to Monica, I'm like, oh, I'm having this thing people have described that was so abstract to me. But now we really have it. I have a deep ache when I'm listening that I'm not with you on tour or in Europe or something.

It's tricky because he does know you. He does know you.

Yeah, this was very confusing. How does that land with you?

I feel that towards people. Certain people. Do you? Oh, yeah. Alan Bennett.

Who's that?

He is a national treasure in England. Most people here, if they know him, it's because he wrote The Madness of King George. But he's written lots of plays. He started off with a group called Beyond the Fringe, and then he's written novellas and plays and movies. He releases his diaries and he reads them, and it's his voice that I listen to him. He did a series called Talking Heads. I can listen to it any time.

I'm so happy you know what feeling I'm describing. And doesn't it kind of hurt that you're not involved? Is there a sadness?

Well, what scares me is there was an antique store around the corner from my house in London, and I know the owners, and I would go in and they'd say, "Ah, you just missed Alan." Oh, he left 2 minutes ago. So I've always just missed him. And now he's in his 90s and he sounds very, very frail. And I know people— he's the kind of fellow, if you write to him, he writes you back.

Oh, really? So have you written to him?

No, no, no. I'm just afraid. I'm just afraid I'll miss him. I don't want to miss him. I don't want to impose myself on him.

But he would love to meet you.

He knows who I am, which was surprising to me, but I'm on the BBC, and so he probably—

I mean, there's many reasons why.

Okay, but what's funny, and this is what I've been kind of trying to work through on the show when it comes up, is like, I have your number, I have your address. It's just this very weird zone where it's like my desire to reach out to you is nightly. Like, I just hear something. And I've heard it 25 times, but this time I like it. And then I'm like, oh yeah, this would be so annoying. And I just am policing myself.

Really?

I've never thought of you as a pest.

I mean, you know what I mean?

I was in England and you were in New York and I was like, damn it, I'm going to miss him because that would have been really nice, you know, to have you over to go out or do something.

Does that author or writer that you just mentioned— I guess the diaries are what makes it parasocial, right? Like, I'm not going to have that with Dostoevsky. I know I can't hang out with he and Raskolnikov. Like, it's all imaginary. But because your work is so much about your real life, I think that's why this whole parasocial thing happens. Is it his work that's like about his own life that you can just see yourself joining?

He's written some personal essays that are about his own life, but it's the diaries mainly. And I listen to them over and over and over, and I can listen any year of his diary anytime. His latest series of diaries came out— hadn't come out in the United States yet, but I'm going to England in a few weeks. And I can get it there, but I really want the audio.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But he's very frail now, and I'm afraid that it's somebody else reading it. I don't know what I would do. Well, I'll just read it myself, but I've heard him so many times I can read it in his voice.

Yeah, right, right, right. Do you have an approach with your diary, or do you even care, or what are you generally writing down?

Well, today my schedule is kind of crazy, but normally what I would do is get up in the morning and first thing I do is write in my diary, and I'm tour. So I often, I go down to breakfast and I write in my diary on my tour. But today, because I have to worry about getting my steps in, so I got up at 6 and I walked like 4 miles. And then Hugh's with me, so we had breakfast together. So then my friend Alyssa, my publicist, brought me here and I said, "Oh, you know what? Can I sit in the back seat?" Because I just needed to write in my diary. And it was a lot of just what happened. And then I saw my note about Miss Young. And Miss Young, I checked in for my flight yesterday in San Francisco, and I had an agent who checked me in, this Black woman, and she was maybe 60 years old, and she was missing 2 teeth, and her name was Miss Young, and that was on her tag. And I said, I gotta say, I said, I love that. I love that I don't know your first name.

And that you're Miss Young. And so we talked about that, just about how everyone calls each other by their first name now. And I said, one thing I hate is when I board the plane and the gate agent says, welcome, Mr. Taylor. You know, welcome, Miss Baxter. Welcome, Mr. David. Because they're afraid to pronounce Sedaris. And so they're just being lazy and they're making it look like it's a typo. And I know it's not a typo. And nobody cares if you say, can you help me pronounce your name?

Sure.

How do you pronounce it? Nobody cares about that. You know, happy to do it. And it's just laziness on their part. But it's not about me. So I'm not gonna stop the boarding process to say, "Show me where it says that." But you've done that when they bring your meal, I know.

You've asked to look at the manifest.

Miss Young was in complete agreement. I just shared such a nice moment with Miss Young. So that's what made yesterday memorable. You know, like more memorable than this book signing I did.

Yeah.

More memorable than the people I met the book signing was just because I had a real connection with Miss Young.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you had heard her first name, do you think it would have ruined it? Do you think it would have ruined the illusion?

Yeah. I mean, if her name tag said Danielle, Danielle, then it wouldn't have been special because everyone else just had their first name on their tag.

Oh, so she was doing something unique.

Yeah.

I didn't get that part.

Me either. Oh, interesting.

Because sometimes in a situation like that, It's just a one-way street. They call you Mr. Sedaris, and then their name tag says Deborah, and then it feels wrong.

You're being familiar and they're being unfamiliar.

Well, partly too, because in so many professional situations now, the people who work there are 10 times better dressed than the people who are the customers. You know, you get into a car and the driver's wearing a suit and tie. You know, when you see people like getting in the back seat, you know, with swim shorts on, you know, in a t-shirt over it.

Boy shorts from France.

And so they're Mr. Duncan.

Yeah.

And then the driver is Hal, you know? So it just seems—

Mr. Duncan in a bathing suit.

I know.

And then Chip in a fucking tux.

Yeah.

Okay, another curiosity I had that struck me, spring and fall you do about 100 cities in your talking tour. Your hair is always really kind of kempt. It's really tight and cut. And I thought, you're not traveling with a barber. Are you constantly in a position where you're in a new town trying to find some kind of barber that you could trust. How were you maintaining your short haircut on this tour?

I will go to anyone to get my haircut. If there was a guy with a blowtorch on the side of the road, I'd go. What I find in New York now is all the barbers are from Azerbaijan.

Oh, really? Oh.

And so I wrote an essay about it because I'm in the Epstein files.

You are not.

I'm in the Epstein files.

You are?

Yeah, I am. For some reason, Jeffrey Epstein emailed somebody an article from the New York Times that was, I don't know, 2004 or something. And it was about a bookstore in Paris where I'd done a reading. And so it mentioned my name.

Oh my God.

And they mentioned Don DeLillo's name and a couple other— Toni Morrison's name, right? Oh, shit. And so I'm in there. So I went to get a haircut. And I said to the woman, I said, "Um, you know, I just found out today that I'm in The Epstein Files." And she said, "What?" Like, she spoke like 17 words of English. Yeah. And I'm like, Fuck. You know, like I needed her to have a reaction. To have a reaction. Yeah. So to me, getting a haircut is simply about the conversation. My hair is unimportant.

You never regretted one?

No, no. Because again, it would just be funny. And well, I wrote about this. I went to a barber in Tokyo and he had shit on his hands. No!

And I could see it like a little smear of shit on his hands.

And everybody Every time he raised the scissors, I was like, oh, and you were like, I'm not getting up, I'm not leaving. You didn't speak any English, and I used all my Japanese, you know, but I don't have— there's no way you're on your hands.

There's no way you practice, excuse me, sir, I happen to notice you have defecation on your phalanges.

And he's a lovely guy.

Oh no.

And I just—

could you smell it?

Oh my God, every time he raised his scissors.

Fuck, David.

Every time he raised the scissors to my face, I could smell it.

Shocked you didn't get up and leave.

I didn't want to embarrass him. I didn't want to.

So this is where your mixed messages.

Yes, I think we're all full of contradictions. But one is like you tell this guy on a bus in England to turn or a train to turn his radio off. You'll do that, but you won't say to the man who has shit on his hand.

Getting dangerously close to your thigh.

You know what, I just realized that I am late for an appointment, or I don't know what you would say.

But you know, when I go to a barber, they just use a shaver on my head. So I say the number 2, and maybe he thought I said the number 2.

Oh, that's already done.

The number 2 scissor cut.

He's like, okay, if you really want that.

Oh no.

Would you be open to a barber saying like— because I think this happens to women a lot. Like, a woman will go into the beauty salon, she'll be like, oh, I'm so tired of this look. And then that hairstylist gets to go like, well, would you like to try something new? And then they get to get creative. If someone pitched you that, one of these barbershops, like, have you ever thought about doing something new? Would you let them go wild just to see what turns out.

Yeah, it would depend on the person. Like, I met somebody the other day and I bought something that, gosh, I would not have otherwise bought. And he didn't give me the hard sell. It wasn't like that. I just liked him. And I walked into a store and he didn't say, welcome in. He didn't say, how's your day going so far? Within a minute, he used the word boyfriend. Uh-huh. Within a minute, I knew so much about him.

Yeah.

And I just liked him so much that I bought this crazy shirt that I wouldn't— it just felt like part of our relationship for me to get this. So a barber could say, "Let's shave your head." Right. And if it was the right barber, I'd say, "Yeah, let's." Yeah, yeah. Do you remember? I'm old enough, so I remember this. When you would go into a barber shop and the barber would have Penthouse magazine and sometimes Hustler magazine on the table. It was like a real men's space, you know? And I remember getting haircuts and I was in Toronto and the guy said, "Where do you live?" And I said, "Paris." And he said, "What's that French pussy like?" Yeah. Like they would talk like that. Barbers could be filthy.

Filthy.

Oh my God.

As if they're anatomically different.

Wow.

You should have made something crazy up. They're sideways.

After a certain age, you feel like you've taken steps back to say like, oh, you know, like, well, you know what, that pussy is fine. You know, that is, that is so tight and fat. Whatever the words are, I don't know.

And they're just looking at you like— You don't even know what's really preferred, right?

But then you feel like, really, I've come this far to go back because this jerk. But then if you'd said, I would have no idea. I've never— I can't tell you anything about it. And I actually can't tell you about French dick either, because the only dick that I'm getting right now is my boyfriend's, and he's American.

Like, I don't know what else happens.

I think that would open up an incredible conversation.

It could, depending on the person.

Let's say I'm your barber. So you just said that, and then I would go, yeah, I guess I'd imagine French penises are not circumcised, right?

That would be really cool.

You're on to something, right?

Exactly.

Yeah. You're on terra firma. We can go somewhere.

But that's you interested in everything.

Yeah. Right.

You're hoping that this is a very open-minded pornographer.

The guy asking about the French pussy is probably not going to continue. I think he's going to stop talking at that point.

But my problem now is everyone's from Azerbaijan and they speak 15— you know, when you speak to them, they're like, oh, don't make me. It's like when I go for a pedicure, I've gone for 2. My sister Amy took me, and then I took my friend Dawn for pedicure. And the women were like, "Oh, don't make me." I know. And so I felt like it was wasted money because I was just sitting there and I wasn't talking to anybody.

Yeah.

I guess that brings me to another one of my questions. Because your work is mostly about your real-life travels, do you ever panic that you are gonna run out of material? Like, do you feel that sense of like, "I don't know how much longer I'm gonna be bumping into interesting people at a bar?" assigning. Do you have any anxiety about that?

One of the essays in my book is I got bitten by a dog, right? Now, if I got bitten by a dog again, I'd be like, fuck, I already wrote about it. I can't use it anymore, right? Yeah.

So that would be a worthless biting.

Yeah.

Because I think you and I have the same thing. I don't write about it, but I love telling stories. And often I'm like mid-disaster, like something's going terribly wrong, and then I just get that little moment where I'm like, oh yeah, this is going to be a story. And then I can kind of enjoy the rest of it because I know I'll be telling this, and I'm almost just grateful for the situation. Yeah, I think it's a neat way to reframe your life if you know you're just out there trying to get amusing stories for everyone.

To me, what's unfortunate— last week I spent 12 hours in the Nashville airport, and I heard other people talking. When we boarded the plane at 8 o'clock, and they said we were supposed to leave at 8:30, and then at 8:30 they said, well, it's gonna be a 10-minute delay, and then they said there was a part missing on the plane. And they said they would call mechanics to come and look at it. And then we waited on the plane and they said, we're going back to the gate. And we got off the gate and then they said, oh my God, it's a boring problem.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a boring problem that nobody wants to hear. And that makes suffering it that much worse.

True.

Because it's so boring and there wasn't anything interesting about the day.

Yeah, it's just one complaint. It's just where I was at the airport for too long, basically.

Well, then I got to Denver and my luggage had gone to St. Louis. Oh no. And I had to talk to the guy at the luggage office, and he said, "If we open your suitcase, what are we going to find in it?" To be cute?

Or he really wanted to know?

No, he said, "You know, how do they know it's my suitcase?" I mean, I had a tag on it, but I said, "Well, if you open it up," I said, "you'll find a—" Burberry Doppelkid. I said, "It's plaid, but not their iconic plaid." And I'm so gay. So gay.

It's not gonna leap out as Burberry. There I go. It won't be super obvious. Oh, man.

But that was the only interesting part of the day. I mean, that's the only part of the day worth talking about.

Worth noting.

And you'll scribble that down somewhere.

That'll get scribbled down.

Yeah, I'll write about it in my diary.

Yeah. Back to the dirty magazines. I haven't had the pleasure of going into into a barber shop that had the Hustlers and stuff. But one of my first jobs at 15 is I worked for this race shop, and I worked with like all 30 to 45-year-old mechanics, and I was 15. And it was like a dive into the deep end experience with male culture. Like, they were immediately joking about fucking me and stuff, and I was like, oh my God, this is extreme. And then yeah, in the bathroom at work in the shop, they had a stack of the nastiest— I mean, it made Playboy look like Hallmark. You could really see inside of everyone in these, and I was 15. Obscene. And so I would go to the bathroom like 2, 3 times a shift because I didn't have access to that kind of material. And I was just constantly in there looking at those things.

And see, now you could go in there and take pictures with your phone and then have them and keep them for later.

Definitely more hygienic. Those magazines—

I know what the other men were doing with that. Yeah, covered in grease. They were in there for a reason.

But I wonder though, because I don't know this, But does that male culture— is it alive and well?

I'm trying to figure that out too, because I also moved from Detroit to LA. So here, when I'm around and I get to be around, from friends of ours, 15 to 17-year-old boys, I have access to like a group of them where I get to see them interact. And they do seem so much nicer than boys were when I was that age. And they seem way less perverted. And insatiable for all that. But again, I don't know if that's 'cause I'm in LA and I'm looking at kids from West LA. Do you have any sense?

No, I don't. But, you know, when I go to the barber in England and when I go to the barber in France, it's not that way.

You don't have much magazines. Have you been watching Half Man?

I watched the first episode.

I love it. And I was trying to tell Monica, what I love is how accurate they got how weird us little boys are. Boys are so fucking weird. There's a period I just think we're so strange. Change. Everyone's got to get their dicks out all the time, and boys are sword fighting. They have this thing and they're just not sure. They have a sense that it's supposed to be being used, but they don't know what for. So just all this weirdness comes out.

I love in the movie Bridesmaids where one of the characters, she has sons, and she talks about how disgusting they are. Yeah. And their sheet cracked in half.

Did you ever find any naked men magazines when you were a kid?

No, I found nudist magazines. And it was interesting because nudist magazines, right? It's families being naked together. Right. So those are naked children. Yeah. Right. So I thought, like, if you had old nudist magazines in your house, right, could that be considered child pornography?

Oh, interesting.

No one in the nudist magazine meets your gaze. Right? So no one's looking at you. They're playing volleyball or they're cooking hot dogs or something.

But for pornography to work, there has to be an engagement and some implication of, like, sexuality. Yeah, as opposed to, like, we got to get these dogs off the grill and into these kids' mouths. Everyone's starving. The nudity is just secondary.

But I wondered about that. I do wonder, because someone's taking those pictures. If it's a magazine, you can purchase, how could it be?

How could you ever get into a nude magazine? I mean, the only ones I've ever seen were old.

Well, think about these photograph magazines your father collected. Right. They had people under 18 nude in them sometimes.

He was wanting to take one. Yeah. Like Cache Photography Today or, you know, magazines like that that used to come out in the 1960s and '70s.

Yeah. Yeah. It's really curious if, like, you have something that was of the era, fine. That is now here. I bring this up all the time, not because I want anyone to go in blackface. I don't think anyone should go in blackface. But when these photos emerge of people in blackface in the '80s, I think it's really important to remember there was a major motion picture that was in 3,000 theaters called Soul Man about this lead character pretending to be Black to go to college, and he was in full Black body, and that was at the Cineplex in '88. So yeah, if someone that same year went to Halloween Clearly, the culture at that time, it seemed completely fine. It was like a major motion picture. It's so hard to imagine right now, but that really happened in my lifetime, and no one cared.

When all those pictures of politicians being in blackface came forward, I wrote something that when I was a kid, like, you would dress as a Native American, but it wasn't like you felt like you were getting away with anything.

Yeah, exactly. It was almost like you had no ideas for a costume.

That was kind of like, "Oh, fuck, I guess I'll go as a chief." But I think that's hard for people now to conceive of. But we're doing something now that is going to be inconceivable. I mean, I know in the future, but we can't even guess what it is. We're sitting here in this room.

We can't even guess what it is. We're doing something deplorable right now.

Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. And even trying to imagine, like, oh, is it drinking water from a can?

Yeah, exactly. Is it books?

Having a candle on the table?

Yeah, I know. Okay, so I've been on this kind of tirade of— or not even a tirade. People just ask me what I listen to because everyone knows I listen to something to go to bed. I've been telling everyone, you know, I've been this year of listening to you every single night. And when I'm encouraging people to do this, the way I hook them on you is I tell them the story of the tortoise. Or no, it wasn't a tortoise, it was a snapping turtle that you developed this relationship with. And I think it's kind of my favorite story of yours in that I think it encapsulates exactly who you are as a human being. So I just want to walk through that a little bit with people. In short, you bought this wonderful place, the C-section on the island. What's the island? Emerald Isle. Emerald Isle. And you thought this would be a great place for my family to gather. And then you started doing that. But once you were there gathering with your family, you're like, I don't want to be in this house with all these people. And you take a walk and then what happens?

You discover this turtle under a bridge.

There's this canal there and it's just filled with turtles. With snapping turtles and with water turtles too, but they're massive snapping turtles, like the size of your suitcase, right?

And their face is intense, right? The actual—

yeah, there was one in particular that had a tumor on its head. Yeah.

And that was the one you really felt affection towards, right?

Yeah, because the other ones, you know, you know the one with the tumor on it. It's like he's wearing a hat. Yeah, a hat.

But on the steps, you started noticing people were feeding them garbage, like Ruffles potato chips, and you were like, they gotta eat something better than this. They can't designed for that.

Well, I was feeding them raw hot dogs, which I don't know how much better that is than— but they'll eat anything. You know, the snapping turtle is just going to eat it and then think later, was that a piece of human shit? I don't think anything can be too disgusting.

Lowbrow. They'll eat whatever. They don't care. But you started feeding it like, I don't know, did you do some chicken livers too?

Maybe. Yeah. Chicken legs, chicken backs.

Yeah. I know you were on tour and then you discovered you had this lipoma. Lipoma, tumor. Tell people what a lipoma is.

I was in Paris one day and I noticed it seemed to pop up overnight. It was like half a deviled egg under my skin, right above my hip. And I went to a doctor and he said, "Oh, it's a lipoma." And I said, "Is it gonna get any bigger?" And he said, "Probably not." And I said, "Why?" And he said, "I don't know. Why don't trees touch the sky?" Which I thought was such a good answer.

Oh my God.

And he said, to get it removed. He made me feel vain for wanting to get it removed. And then I went to a doctor in North Carolina and I said, can we cut this out? And he said, yeah, definitely. And I said, because I want to feed it to a snapping turtle.

There we go. But just, do you remember where that idea came from or just felt very natural?

I just finished this essay about why some people want to feed wildlife and why it's not important to other people at all. I know people who never occurs to them, right?

So me, I don't— oh, really? Never think about it.

I never go to Central Park without food, and I feed squirrels, and then I started feeding birds, and then not long ago I started feeding crows. Uh, it's fascinating to have a new creature to feed. Yeah, right? And they love hard-boiled eggs. The crows do?

Yeah. Okay, we're feeding crows too. Oh, you do? Yeah, yeah, we've tried every single thing. I was putting out like really nice lunch meats for them and stuff. Kristen was trying different berries and stuff. They love dog treats. That's a big one. I think they're real smelly, those dog treats.

Yeah, they love peanuts in their shell.

That's what I heard, but ours don't care about that.

Raw chicken breast. Love raw chicken breast.

Yeah. Okay. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking what the warning light means before pulling out of your driveway Allstate, you absolutely convinced yourself it was probably just a sensor thing, right up until you were standing on the side of the road waiting for a tow. Yeah, checking first is the right move. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. And for fast, reliable help when you need it, add an Allstate Roadside Plan today. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary. Insurance and roadside assistance plans are subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Insurance provided by Allstate North American Insurance Company, Northbrook, Illinois. Roadside assistance plans provided by Allstate Motor Club. Incorporated, an Allstate affiliate. Yeah, so what's great about the two camps is there's people who want to feed animals, and it's not just that the people who don't want to feed animals don't want to feed animals. They feel vehemently that you should not feed animals, right? To not want to is to put you immediately in the camp of like, you shouldn't feed animals, right?

It's very vitriolic, but it's also like, it's easy for you to say, you're not doing anything. You know what I mean? Like, you don't have to hard-boil eggs. You don't have to get them. You don't have to— It's lazy. Fill a Ziploc bag with damp paper towels to wash your hands. When you go to Hyde Park, it's just a few blocks from my house in London, and crows recognize 100 human faces. Yeah. And the second day you go, they're there. And you look like a warlock. You know, all of a sudden you got 30 crows dancing in front of you on the street. What power. And it's just— Fun. Yeah. And it opens a whole new world. But another world just got open because we have a pasture behind our house and this shepherd was keeping his rams there.

This is in England, right?

Yeah. And rams are just assholes. Anyway, he's not having sheep anymore. So our pasture was empty. Someone in the village looking for a place to keep their donkeys. We have donkeys now in our pasture. Oh, that's cute. So it's a whole new whole new things to feed and get to know. Yeah, I'm really excited.

And he's a don't feed the animals person, right? I went to the park with him.

He didn't feed a single squirrel, and I thought, oh, he's embarrassed. If I go through a trash can because I'm looking for something shiny or just something I can use for one reason or another, he'll walk ahead. And if I'm picking up trash, he'll walk ahead. So I was surprised. I thought, oh, he cares what people think more than I do. But I had this lipoma, and then I thought, you know, people who get their legs amputated, right?

Alligators would love to eat a leg. It's wasted. Yeah, yeah.

And instead— and this doctor said, I cannot give you anything I cut out of your body.

Do you know why? I don't know why.

I don't quite understand it either.

I know, like, I think they're under the guise of it would be a liability issue, but what's the liability?

But a lot of dentists won't even give you teeth No more.

That's mine. Right.

Someone told me it had to do with flesh-eating bacteria. Yeah, bacteria. I could see that. But I bitched about it one night on stage, and this woman came up afterwards in El Paso, Texas, and said, "I'll cut that out of you, and I'll give it to you to keep." No! Yeah.

She's like, "Meet me in the bathroom." She was a doctor, not a surgeon.

And she said, "I'll cut you open if it's above my—" I don't usually like this word— "pay grade." "I'll stitch you back up and send you on your way, but it shouldn't be a problem." And so after my show, it was like 2 o'clock in the morning or 1 o'clock in the morning after the book signing, she drove me across state lines into New Mexico. That's a great friend. What? To a clinic. And there were a couple other people that came with us and it was really simple. And she cut it out of me. And then I went to her house, hung out later. I didn't sleep at all and went back to my hotel. She shipped it on ice to one of my sisters. And she brought it to the beach. But months have gone by, right?

You're kind of anticipating this for months. You know, you have this delicious lipoma sitting on ice. Oh, God. And you're so excited to get home and feed it to this— And it didn't amount to much. Yeah. And you were gonna feed it to the snapper, hopefully that had his own tumor, right?

Right. And then I was told that that one died. Oh. 'Cause my brother and my niece are down there a lot. Oh, yeah. And they said, God zilch. Turtle. Turned out lots of people had different names for this snapping turtle, so I fed it to a different one. But it appreciated it. I hate to give away—

my family and I, because I told you I also listened to it with my daughters a lot. We often lay down, that's part of our routine, is to listen to one of your stories. But the story ends with you saying, you know, that's the great thing about turtles is they'll eat it and barely think that, whereas a dog, if you feed it a human turtle, it'll eat it, but then it'll give you a look that says, "Fuck, is that a tumor?" I mean, what a fucking—

But a turtle doesn't even give it a second thought. But to me, fuck, it was just about waste. Yeah. So many of our waste-related rules are just lawsuit stuff, trying to avoid lawsuits, right? You can't give somebody if like all these hamburgers are left at the end of the night. You can't give it away to people because they might blah, blah, blah. But you can give it to an alligator.

They're not litigious, alligators.

Yeah. Or there's all kinds of creatures. You give it to dogs or cats. Yeah. I don't understand why. And it's just dumb rules in place.

Do we agree, though, there are a couple of good policies against feeding animals when it comes to, like, extremely dangerous animals, right? Like, you wouldn't encourage anyone to feed a polar bear and get them more comfortable in your backyard, right?

No. Or bears, lions, coyotes.

Coyotes, I was about to say. There was a scenario down the street where a woman was feeding these coyotes, and then yeah, more and more and more came. The one got run over, and it's like a whole to-do. That's also—

they eat all these dogs, right? Is that her? Yeah, her investigative work. Yeah. I don't have total confirmation of how much she was feeding them, but my sister has figured this out.

I gotta say, I'm afraid to say, say it, if I lived in a place and there were coyotes, you'd feed them. I'd probably think, hmm, I wonder what they want to eat.

You feed the foxes. Yeah. Which everyone does in England, right? In your area? They just throw the scraps in the yard.

There are a lot of people who, right, I know people who throw scraps in their yard and then maybe they'll be gone. But there was this fox, she was eating out of my hand. Oh my God. In England. Eating out of my hand. And you're not worried about it? No one had seen seen anything like it. Yeah. Nobody. People were shocked at this fox, right? And then our neighbors, they have chickens. They paid someone to shoot her while Hugh and I were in the United States, right? The fox? Yeah. And then I thought naively, well, maybe there'll be another one. No. But Hugh just saw a fox in our pasture that has babies. So I'm thinking maybe 'Cause if you can get those babies, if you can get them eating—

Yeah, domesticate those, man. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Yeah.

Whenever you see, like, people who have foxes for pets, they are gleeful almost, and they're affectionate, and they lay on their backs, and they seem to be smiling. But at the same time, they're like, "I gotta get outta here." You know, like all wild animals. Yeah, they're animals. "I gotta get outta here." A woman came last night to get a book signed. She has a squirrel. And I said, "Does it get in your linen closet?" Is it hide nuts in your food in your linen come? She says, yeah. But now it has the second floor of their house, but it comes down every morning and jumps in their bed at 6 o'clock to wake them up. Oh my God. And they let it out. And it comes back. And then it comes back. It'll just go out for like 2 hours and then like— Like a cat. Ready to come back. Wow. Yeah.

They're real smart, we found out. We constantly do these lists of the smartest animals and they're always on there.

Shockingly. They can live to be 20. Squirrel.

Really? Did you grow up with pets? I forget this.

Dogs and cats, hamsters, regular variety.

We've had you on enough times, and now I've read every single thing you've written. Do you think about how you've changed as a writer? Because I kind of was going backwards, so I got really conscious of how much the earlier stuff is different than the modern stuff. I'm wondering if you're like, even think about that, or you've noticed how your writing's I'm very aware of it. Yeah. So how would you explain the evolution, how it's changed?

To me, a difference would be, like, my second book was called Naked. And I was under a deadline to write it. It was before I started going on tour. Yeah, yeah. So none of those essays was read before a live audience until the book came out. And everything in it is twice as long as it should be. Everything in it is— you see somebody straining. For a laugh and like elbowing you in the ribs. Get it? Get it? And it's awful. It's just awful when people can't see the difference between that and then the last book. I'm like, what am I here for if you can't see the difference? Also, it's a difference that second book, if you were meeting somebody for the first time and they didn't know anything about you, you would say these were big moments in your life. So I wrote about big moments. Yeah, in my life. But now I write really about nothing. Yeah, small moments.

I think you're one of the only weird hybrids we have, that you're somewhere between a stand-up and a writer, I think. And I wonder if you agree with that, which is stand-ups write a thing in the morning, or even they have a kernel of an idea, they go out, they try it a little bit on stage, they take the feedback from that, they they work it a little more, right? There's this really back and forth process of having the audience help guide them, which is unique to stand-up. But because you have been doing these lecture tours for years and years and years, wouldn't you say you're working in a kind of a similar format? There's a couple of your live readings, like On Calypso, that I said if you put it into AI and you had it AI analyze, are there more laughs per second in this than there is the Chappelle stand-up piece? You are blowing some stand-ups off the stage, just laughs per second. You're really this weird hybrid. And do you think about that part at all?

Reading things out loud, and then going back to the room and rewriting them, that piece that I wrote about feeding animals, my biggest laugh in it came from during Q&A. No one asked about that piece, but sometimes before the questions come, I've just runnin' my mouth. And I was talking about the relationship between blue jays and squirrels. Squirrels. Whenever you see a squirrel, you're likely to see a blue jay. Oh! And blue jays get up in the tree, and they watch squirrels bury their food, and then they go steal it. Oh, wonderful. And blue jays eat baby squirrels. Oh! And squirrels eat blue jay eggs and baby blue jays. They're a two-person circle of life. And so I found myself saying on stage that I love that given how now we'll cancel somebody over an Instagram post, It's nice to know that amongst certain animals, eating each other's babies is not a deal breaker. You know, like, you'll still hang out with each other.

It's still a symbiotic relationship.

Yeah. And so, I wouldn't have thought that at my desk, but I said it on stage and people laughed really hard, and then I put it in the piece. So that happens. And another thing that happens is that I read something out loud, and then people come up and they said, "Oh, I had a similar experience," or, "Oh, this thing happened to me." And so I can stitch it. I don't then say it happened to me, you know, I'll give them credit, but that can help it grow as well.

Okay, the other arc I notice is— and this is not unique to you, I think this is the arc of most people— which is like, you're kind of nicer now. You're beautifully agitated a lot, which is a source of a lot of your funniest stories, but you have a different disposition. Would you And which makes sense because you were kind of a late starter and you didn't know if this was going to work out for so long. So you had accumulated a lot of living at the bottom of the barrel issues you would have, but you're less angry. Is that a fair— I don't even know that angry is the right word. Right. Can you feel that you've gotten lighter as a person over the last 30 years?

I don't have anything really to complain about. Nobody is telling me that I can't write. Nobody's telling me I can't put a book out. I mean, you know, sometimes you'll submit something to an editor and they'll be like, no, not because it's poorly written, but because you said something that they think is insensitive. But they're not saying you can never write again. They can say change it, and I say, fuck all y'all. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because I read that on stage and I know it gets a huge laugh. Yeah. And you're I'm just coward, you know? Yeah, yeah, yes. But I don't really have that much to complain about, but I'm angry about a lot of things. Like, I'm angry about— don't you just hate it when— and again, I know how petty this sounds— so you go to the hotel, because I'm going to a hotel. I started this tour April 1st. Oh wow. And you go to a hotel, and then they run up to open the trunk of the car so they can get your luggage out. And if someone touches your luggage You gotta tip them. That's the rule.

I know, I know, I know.

So fine, here's $10 for taking my suitcase out of the back of the car. And then they say, "We'll send it right up to the room." And I say, "No, I'll bring it up to the room myself because I don't wanna have to wait for it." "No, it's already on the way up." And then it's like, okay, that's $20 more. And that feels like, again, if I were going out of town one weekend per year.

You're checking into a hotel every day.

Day. Yeah, I'm not that person who says, yeah, sorry, I don't have any cash on me, because I go and I find the ATM that will let me have $5 bills and then $10, and I pick them, and I constantly have my money ready and have it down. And you just fucked me over for tomorrow.

I think a lot of this is just like how frequently you travel. If you only hear, how was your flight, how was your trip, welcome in, you only hear twice a year, it's not even going to register. But it's the repetition that starts driving you mad, I think. And so my issue with the bag thing, when we, we pull up to a hotel, I'm fine with tipping. In fact, it's like a thing I get off on. I just, I don't need that. I can handle this bag. I don't want to be separated from it. It has my journal in it. This is all these reasons why I don't want a bunch of different people getting it to the room. And it seems insane because I can manage it. So I have a couple built-in ones that work so perfectly. If I'm with my children, I go, no, no, they got to learn to handle their own business. Thank you. Right? So they go, cool, he's trying to teach his kids not to be brats. And the other thing you can say, and this one works so well, David, is they go to grab my thing and I go, oh, I'll take it.

My mother would be so disappointed if I didn't carry my own stuff. And then they go, oh, okay. Yeah, he's just trying to live up to what his mom expects of him. So it takes all of us out of the equation. Like, if you got beef with somebody, it's my mom. Or if you got beef with something, it's my kids. It's not me.

Okay, you're going to your room and you don't have that much time. You can't take a shower on a trip like this. Yesterday I got in from the airport and I had 15 minutes before I had to leave for the bookstore. Stressful. And so I had to take a shower. I can't be waiting for you to bring my luggage. I don't have that amount of time. And then I get off on tipping people too. But then it's like, I told you, you know what I mean? I tipped that guy for opening the trunk of the car, basically. Yeah. So again, and I know people have to make a living. And when you complain about that, people are like, you're a dick, you know? But if it's your life and if you're traveling constantly, that's the thing too. I'm in Vancouver the other day. This car meets me at the airport and he says, how was your flight? I said, you're better than that. I said, you know, that's a nothing question. And I said, you're better than that. And I had, The best conversation with this guy. Did you? Oh my goodness. After that, right?

Yeah. Because I said, you're not opening a door with that question. And I say, my flight's fine. And you say, perfect, or whatever.

And then, eh. We're done.

It's a cul-de-sac. And even when I was in the airport 12 hours, how was your flight? I'm not gonna— because I say I was in the— oh, poor you.

Oh yeah, travel these days, these airliners.

I was in a car last month and the guy said, "I think we met once before. I was in Cleveland and I took you to such and such." I had my computer, and I said, "Oh, right. You've got 3 sisters and you..." Like I'd written down. If I were him, I would've been a little bit afraid. Right.

You have a dossier. Yeah.

And all the stuff that I had written in my diary about him. But he was a completely interesting guy. Yeah. I had this driver a while ago. He was divorced, and he said, we're driving, and it's like a 4-hour car ride, and we're somewhere in the Midwest. And he said, do you wanna go to lunch? You know, which just wouldn't happen. He said, I know this drive-in. And he said, it's clown-themed. Oh. It's not a drive-in, a diner. It's clown-themed diner. That's perfect for you. Anyway, so we went, 'cause it was just so unheard of for a driver to say like, do you wanna have lunch? Yeah. My schedule that day, I couldn't think of anything better than to go to a clown-themed diner.

With a stranger.

With this guy who wants to do stand-up. And I didn't have to fake laugh or anything like that.

Yeah, yeah.

Do you ever feel stuck in those situations? Like, you're at this diner with this person, you're not worried, like, I'm gonna want to go, and how will I get out of this? Or how will I tell him it's time for us to go? I would get really in my head about that.

Oh, I didn't worry about that.

Again, I think because— and this is my hunch— is like, you're kind of always on the hunt for a story. Right? Like, this is your business. You write about stuff. So any situation's potentially fodder for work. You can always frame it that way.

This guy who I travel with sometimes, lovely guy, but he wouldn't ever think to talk to the guy driving the car to the airport. Right, right. Never think to do it. We were in the Midwest, and the weather was just horrible, and there were no flights. All the flights from the airport were canceled. So he said, we got to get a private We got a private plane and it sat like 10 people. And I said, let's bring 8 people with us. That's nice. Because no one's leaving here. But if you said to people, you know, I can get you to Louisville, Kentucky, I bet some people— and he said, no, they might talk too much. And I'm forever angry at myself for not saying, it doesn't matter if they talk too much. Because it would be such a nice story for those people. Of course. When these guys come. Came up, and next thing we knew, we were on a private plane. Because most people don't get to ride in a private plane. No, never. And it was going to cost the same amount regardless. Yeah. So why not? You would have given them a story for their title.

Bring people with you. But anyway, it comes down to waste again. Why are you going to waste that tumor? Yeah. When this—

it would make this Godzilla's day. There's hungry turtles out there. I joined Kristen. She had a press junket down in Cancún one time, this is years and years ago, probably 15 years ago. And we went down there. And so I have nothing to do all day, but they've given her a driver. And then I have a friend who was just in Cancún. He's like, oh, you got to go to this one restaurant. It's this old, old restaurant. It's legendary. It's super nice. So I asked the driver in the morning, like, hey, do you think you could take me to this restaurant? He's like, oh, you're going to love that restaurant. It's the most famous restaurant in town. I go, okay, great. So I'm going to meet him at noon. And then the whole ride to the restaurant, the guy's like, I take a lot of people to this restaurant. He's going to me about the restaurant. And then as we pull up, I said, you've eaten here? Yeah. And he goes, oh no, no, I've never eaten here. And I go, oh, well, come on in, let's eat here. And he's like, no, no, no.

And I'm absolutely, come on, dude, if you've never eaten here and you've come here a bunch of times, let's go. So I have lunch with this guy and it's super fun. And then when we get out, he very much wants to like reciprocate. So he's like, anything I can do for you that you want, that was just so nice. And I go, yeah, I want to see where everyone that works at these hotels lives. Like, I see the presentation, but I want to see like where do y'all live and what's going on. He's like, oh great, yeah, I'll take you to where I live. And so we're driving around in this little neighborhood and then he goes, oh yeah, my girlfriend lives right up here. And I go, oh cool. And he goes, can we say hi to her? I go, yeah, absolutely. So then we pull into this, you know, it's a little cinder block house about the size of this studio. And we kind of just walk in because it's his girlfriend and she's like in a sports bra and like, well, she's not dressed for company, let's just say. So they start speaking in Spanish and you can tell she's so confused, like, why is this tall white dude in my house?

And then he goes, oh, she really would like a photo with you. Can she have a photo? And I go, yeah, absolutely. So I don't know how this happened, David, but somehow the photo was I sat in the chair by the computer and I thought she was going to stand stand next to me, and then she just kind of sat on my knee. And so now I'm in this photo with a Mexican girl in a sports bra in a small house. And I came back to the hotel, I said to Kristen, I go, "Hun, potentially a photo may emerge that looks very, very guilty. I don't know how I ended up in this photo, but I did take a photo with a woman in a sports bra." I never learned to drive a car, and so I've never been in a car by myself. Do you have nightmares that you'll have to drive?

Oh, Yeah, but it's like with you being in a car, I mean, I can see how somebody listening would be like, fuck all y'all, you know, like, oh, I wish I had a driver. But it's like when you go on tour, so a car is going to meet you at the airport and take you to the hotel.

You can't do the job without it.

No, it's not a stretch limo. Yeah, right. But it's a car service. But if you were renting a car and you're just driving it, you're guaranteed, you know, unless you get a flat tire or something, there's not going to be anything to talk about. But there's a potential there to have a really nice conversation with a stranger and to learn something. To me, that's what it's all about, is to— Yeah, you're just so curious. Touch somebody. Yeah. Yeah. To get evidence that they're a person. Yeah. And then they get evidence of that, of you as well.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. I love it. Tell me about the evolution of— of everyone in your stories is real-life people in your life. And I think, of course, you're hardest on yourself. You expose all of your own warts the most. But also, you just tell it like it is between you and Hugh. You'll tell it like it is with your sisters and your brothers and your dad and your mom. How has that evolved? At the beginning, would people get mad at you? What's the unspoken rules about how you write about people?

Well, my brother, like, for instance, we had an argument about something something in 2016. And then he said he didn't want me to write anything about him. Anyway, it took a long time to get beyond our argument. Like, it wasn't worth estrangement. You know what I mean? I wouldn't say we were ever estranged, but I would say maybe it was strained for a few years.

He's a lot younger than you?

Yeah. How much younger? 11 years. And then I had a show in Raleigh, and everything I read featured him, and he came. Oh yeah, and he was so happy. But again, the laughs that he got were his laughs. People weren't laughing at him, they laughed at the things he said that he knows are funny, but he's not going to get up on stage and do it.

Yeah, he's not a writer, so he's learned to enjoy that, probably through getting to experience the live show.

I think when he said, I don't want you I knew what he meant. He was afraid I was going to write certain things about him.

To make him look stupid or something?

No, no, just identify him in a way that, you know, if you have a business, people are just so quick to then— Write you off? Yeah.

But he's such a wonderful character in your life because he's 11 years younger than you, and he is the prototypical Raleigh dude, right? He did perfect in that situation. He and your father were best friends. Like, he said, "That's my best friend." friend when he was dying.

Paul can speak to men in a way that I can't, right? You know, he can just speak their language.

He's very colorful in the way— unless you're putting words in his mouth, he also has a very unique way of communicating. He's got tons of brilliant little sayings and colloquial things, right?

Plus he had a floor sanding business, so he was hanging out with people from the country, you know, if there's grass on the field, I'll play. You know, people who say stuff like that. He's got an ear He's always known what's funny.

Has there ever been tension though where people really didn't like it and they confronted you about it, or has everyone made peace with it?

I give it to them first and say, is there anything you want me to change or get rid of?

And how often do they flag something?

Hmm, I'm trying to think.

I bet it's the same ratio of our show. We let people cut out anything they want to cut out, and I bet it's 1 in 10. Yeah, interviews where someone does have something they want cut out.

Most of People who have said to me, "I don't want you writing anything about blah blah blah," I wouldn't have written it anyway. Right. It's just not interesting. It's the same way that quite often if someone comes to get a book signed and they say, "I've got a funny story to tell you," it's not funny. But if you're just having a conversation, sometimes they'll say things that are just amazing. Like you just hit the right—

Because they're just being themselves. They're not trying. Yeah. Did you date a lot before Hugh? Because I feel like dates must have been hard.

No, I had a boyfriend before I met Hugh that I was with for 6 years. And then, oh, there were, I had like a little awkward rebound after that, but it was before I had published anything. And then I met Hugh. Oh, okay.

So, 'cause I was like, people must just constantly, I can just imagine these dates where they're trying to prove to you that they are so funny, and that would be miserable.

Well, I think it would be hard to date somebody, period. It'd be hard to date somebody, period. But like, if you all of a sudden went on the dating— Yeah, yeah. You know, people knew who you were, right?

Yeah, it's hard.

No, you know that everything that happens in bed, they might tell a tabloid at some point. So you're like, wow, I gotta keep that in the back of my mind. Do you really feel like you could trust a person who's never gonna do that?

And I've never written anything about, you know, even my ex-boyfriend, I've never written anything about our sex life. I've never written anything about Hugh, our sex life.

Yeah, you know the line you don't wanna cross.

Yeah, I think the most info you've ever given us about you and Hugh's sex life is Tiffany called you one time and said, man that wants to fuck her up the ass with a strap-on. And do you know if Ambisol reduces anal pain? And you said, you're asking the wrong person. And then she said, well, put Hugh on. He said, it's still the wrong house, call someone else.

That's one thing you never want to know that about someone in your— your sister. I never want to know about your sister's sex life.

You said, in the fact that It was for money, shouldn't matter, but it did. I got curious about your sleep schedule now that I've read so much of your stuff, because so many of your stories, like, will involve a walk that starts at 1 AM in New York, or you're working on something at the house in England at 3 in the morning. Do you have a normal thing?

Does it evolve a lot? Yeah, I mean, it changes a lot. Like, in England, quite often I'll go out at midnight and I'll walk to the train station. And pick up trash. That's like, uh, I don't know, 2-hour walk maybe. And then I come home and I'm up for a while. So, you know, I'll go to bed at 3 and wake up at 10.

And do you have any guilt? Do you care about what your sleep schedule is? Do you just follow whatever your desire is? Like, I want to go for a walk right now and I'll wake up when I wake up?

Yeah, I just became free a couple days ago because the past almost 4 years, then let's say I wake up at 10, my Duolingo XP boost would expire at noon. Oh, so that would only give me like just under 2 hours, and then I have to cash in that XP boost. And because I needed to be in the top 3 in the Diamond League, that takes me an hour. Oh, right. And then I said to somebody 10 days ago at a bookstore, I I said, does anybody know how to turn off the leaderboard for Duolingo? And this woman said, I can do that for you. Oh. And turned it off. And now I have no idea what league I'm in. I have no idea my ranking. I was competing against people who maybe don't even exist. Yeah, yeah. And it was ruling my life. Oh, wow. And so now Duolingo says, I want you to do this, this, and this today. And it might take 15 minutes. It might take 20 minutes. And I say, "You got it," and I'm free.

I mean, it was ruling my life. This is one of my questions, is Duolingo. So people that have read your previous books or have even listened to episodes that we've all done together, you were deeply addicted to your Fitbit, which then turned into your Apple Watch, in this commitment to get 10 miles a day, which is how many steps, like 20,000 or something?

Uh, more than that, probably. Let's see, 30,000.

What's 10 miles? 10 miles?

Well, let's see. I've walked 4, almost 5 miles today. Stepwise, I'm at 10,000. So like 20,000 steps. Yeah, nice. Okay.

Yeah. So that was your obsession, and that was taking up a huge chunk of your day. And then came Duolingo, and that has its same weird addictive properties. Why is it that that thing has ensnared you in the same way as the Fitbit?

Well, I had to be in the top 3, right? Uh-huh. A normal person, A normal person might— and it's complicated, but a normal person might have 300 extra points at the end of the week. I would have 27,000. Oh my God. And what it meant too is that I'd go back to it in the evening. And so after a while, you weren't even learning anymore. But the problem was that I would do it. I'd go to the airport and I'd do it at the airport, you know, if I was on tour. And then I'd do it walking home from the fitness center when I was in New York or walking. And then I was that person on the street with the device in his hand looking down. And I was so ashamed of myself being that person. And that's what I'm free of.

You had become what we call in addiction cross-addicted. You're now using your Duolingo and your fucking steps obsession all at the same time. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. Do you care or do you explore what's going on? Why you're susceptible to that? Well, let's start with, do you admit and acknowledge this is peculiar behavior? Yes. Okay, great.

Because I know so many people who do Duolingo and they do it like my friend Dave, like, oh, I did what they asked me to and now I'm—

I don't care about being in the top whatever.

But again, if I was spending an hour and a half a day And if my German was like, oh my God, your German's perfect. Yes, it might be different, but the way to get points is to have a conversation. You can have the same conversation over and over and over and over, right? And then you're getting 180 points a pop. And that's what I was—

that's where the money's at. So you would, you would admit the goal of being fluent in the language is kind of secondary to this weird point structure been roped into. Yeah. And do we just think it's the addictive brain, or do you have a different explanation?

No, it's easy. It's addictive brain.

That's all we're trying to do is plug something in that won't kill us.

But what's interesting to me is that there's something coming. Something's coming my way, and I can't begin to guess what it is. But it's like before someone gave me a Fitbit, it never occurred to me that I would have to walk like that. And before someone turned me on to Duolingo, I had no idea.

So it's not over.

Yeah, yeah, it'll just move to something Yes, but I cannot right now tell you. I haven't been introduced to it yet, but it's going to be awful.

Do you think it's amusing or annoying for our partners? Because Kristen seems to roll it out in dinner party conversations as it's kind of amusing, which is she has seen me be addicted to the weirdest stuff. I had a phase where it was toothpicks, right? It was tea tree oil toothpicks, but I wanted the strongest tea tree oil. So I was getting them from Australia where they have like probably an illegal level of tea tree oil that would be permitted a year, and I chewed them so much that I started to get scabs around the corner of my mouth. It was like deteriorating my skin. And then I switched to Hall's Mentholiptus. I got addicted to those for a while, and I was eating a family pack a day. I'd have to go to CVS once a day and get my family pack. And, you know, she just gets to sit on the sidelines and watch this madness, and it'll just be like 4 months of this, and then I finally get my arms around that, and then a new one just pops up.

Hugh hated Duolingo. But no, I'll do the same. Like, my brother gave me these little lozenges and stuff. Then I have to have 15 packs of them. Were they minty? No, they were very medical tasting. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. And then it's all about that, and then it goes away, and then something else takes its place.

I wonder what it's gonna be.

We're both ex-smokers. Have you ever considered getting re-addicted to nicotine? Because there's so many safe delivery systems now.

Now? No, I feel free. You do? It feels so free not to be dependent on cigarettes and not to be dependent on alcohol. And I feel that free, like I'm released from Duolingo. And again, I'm still— I'm learning more now.

Turning off the leaderboard, like, yeah, the point system got taken away.

But that's so funny me because all it did was take that. All she had to do was remove that. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I'm good now. Instead of ruminating, oh, do I want to get back on the leaderboard? Like, that's addiction. I feel like, like, oh, I kind of want to go back to it. I want to see if I can. That's crazy to me that she's just like, yeah, I removed it and now you're good.

Well, I asked her to remove it and then I don't know if it's because I'm on a book tour and so I don't need to be number one on Duolingo to feel good about myself. Sure. Self-esteem. You know, that I'm getting rewarded for my book.

Yeah.

Have they approached you about being an ambassador to the product or a paid spokesperson? Because you now write about it so much, I feel like they should employ you.

I think not, because I write about it in a cautionary way. I think. Okay.

Another thing, and I know this is all annoying to be armchair psychologized from afar, But I wondered if the C-section and the art collection are subtle fuck yous to your dad. Meaning your dad always promised the family you guys would get a vacation house on Emerald Isle, and he just never delivered on that. And you got to deliver on that while he was alive. And then he also loved paintings and collected a bunch of artwork, and then you got to do that, but you got to collect kind of real artwork.

And when it comes to the artwork, like, I remember I was in Greece with my dad, and we were in this tourist town, and then my dad's like, "Ah, this guy, I might buy one of his paintings. It'll really escalate in value." And I said, "Dad, there's that guy in every town this size in the world. Like, his work is never going to escalate in value." Well, my father would never give me that. He would never give me that. Like, the artwork that he bought in Rome, in Raleigh. There was that in every town the size of Raleigh. You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't mean that it's not—

There's nothing special or unique about that. Yeah.

But because he didn't get out and he didn't go to museums and he didn't read things and look at things, he didn't know that. And also, he didn't want to spend the money. Right. Right? And there are people who will— Gosh, there's this Salman Toor. I bought a Salman Toor painting, who's this fellow from Pakistan. And geez, Gee, you can't even touch his stuff now. And I just got some early on, and two museums have borrowed it so far. But I don't do that too often. But I don't buy things as an investment. But my father, I would say, you know, like, I went to art school, like, this has been an interest of mine since I was 14. I think I know more— Exactly. —than you do. But just someone not giving you that. Yeah, not saying, yeah, you're right.

It is frustrating.

And at the beach house, he would go to the beach and he'd say, "What do you say we get a house on the beach?" And we were so excited, and we'd get a real estate agent and go look at places. And there was always a reason that we didn't get it. Instead, he was gonna put a bar in the basement, and we fell for it again and again and again. As adults, we all went to the beach. We hadn't been together at the beach in a long time. And then the third day I was there, Hugh made an appointment with the real estate agent, agent, and we bid on a house, and by the fourth day, we had a house. And my father's like, "You can't do that. You know, what about the roof?" I said, "If the roof needs replacing, I'll replace the roof.

I'm not gonna let it stop me." Yeah, you're just like closing the loop on the things he likes about it.

"Well, you didn't ask about the air— How old's the air conditioner?" I said, "Don't care." Yeah. Yeah.

You had a reader, a guest that wrote you a letter and said, "I wanna come to a live show, but I have Tourette's." Yeah. And you said, of course, come to the show. And then she was sitting in the front row. Mm-hmm. What ended up happening? I saw you talking about a talk show, but I knew there you had to stop short of what was probably happening.

She said, I have Tourette's and I want to come to your show, but I don't want to be the show. And I was a little bit insulted because I know when there's someone with Tourette's in the audience, you know, you figure it out pretty quickly. Yeah. Right? At first you're like thrown and then you think, oh no, it's somebody with Tourette's. So she came and she was in wheelchair and she sat on the front row. "Fuck you! Fuck you! Fuck you!" You know, the guy at the BAFTA Awards? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was stunned by the ignorance that came out of that people— Well, he should have said why didn't he say strawberry because he has Tourette's. Wow. And he's gotta say the most offensive thing possible.

Right. That's what the condition is.

Yes. Yeah. And so when she called me fuck and fuck, I wasn't offended in the least bit because you knew the situation. She's gonna—

that's what she has to call me. So this is fascinating because I had a different take, which is simply there are some things that you have that preclude you from going places, and that's just how life is. And it's like when men become trans women, they accept out of the gates, I'm going to be a woman, but I'll never give birth. That's just off the table. Right. So my issue is like, I'm so sorry, the one thing you can't do when you have Tourette's is attend a televised fucking performance where there's going to be Black folks on stage. Guess what? You have to recuse yourself from that situation.

But his movie was nominated. I know, that was so tricky. His big night.

Then they should have had him backstage so he could experience the night. But we got the exact outcome we were always going to get. So why did we do that?

I don't know. I guess I was more inclined like, this is somebody's special night. Night, you know what I mean?

Well, a lot of people, but we elevated one person's special night among 10. I don't think we can prioritize one person over 20.

Okay, how about this? Okay, here we go. You can come, we're going to put a sock in your mouth like 5 times. Yeah. Okay, we're going to put a sock in your mouth.

Anytime marginalized people are on stage, you got to put a ball gag on.

Yeah, maybe that's a way.

It could be a happy— you— if they cut to the audience, 2 people people with balls. And you start putting together the pieces, like, wow, every time there's a marginalized person on stage, those persons have their ball gag on.

Because I guess I was thinking of it too, like, let's say that it was somebody who was, uh, quadriplegic. Like, well, now we'd have to put a ramp on, you know, so better you not come. But instead, now we would build the ramp, you know. We would never think, well, you have to stay home, right? Yeah, right.

I see both, because I agree that, like, should Michael B. Jordan, does he have to stand up there and pretend like that's not happening when the N-word is being shouted at him?

Yeah, it's just like his right against him. Right. It's just, to me, at some point you look at it in a utilitarian way. Like, how many people were made uncomfortable versus how many got to live out their dream?

I was given an award by the BBC, like, a month after that. And then the guy got up there, the host, and he said, "A BBC awards show.

What could go wrong?" Well, you have agreed. I've shown you shamelessly ask you to read something from the new book, a very short one that I love. But before we do that, I just want to kind of publicly fellate you over. I think the story that I am most in love with, that I've listened to the most time, and I think I told you my kids like the most too, which scared me the first time I heard it with my kids in bed, is Lady Marmalade. You say Marmalade. I've heard you pronounce it Marmalade.

I was taking it from the song. Yeah, from the LaBelle song. Long.

Yeah, but for people who haven't read it, and it's in Happy-Go-Lucky, it's the most incredible story in my opinion because it has every single thing. It's an exploration of how kind of bizarre your father was, and at many times kind of creepy and perverted. In particular, there was a time where you had a stomachache and he suggested perhaps you have hemorrhoids. He was suspicious you had hemorrhoids. God knows why. I don't think those are comorbidities, But he implores you to bend over the sink and he starts studying your anus, and you say he's studying it in the way that could only be described as someone might look at a gem. So, you know, this is a weird activity. Yeah, but he's also not a predator and he's not an abuser. He's just this weird middle ground of like, we don't know what we file this person under, right? And that is how people are. They're weird. They're— it's not binary. They're not like totally bad or not. It's like, it's even harder. It's like, is Dad weird or not? But then of course Tiffany, who has her own struggles, she ends up accusing your father of having molested her, and she's uncovered repressed memories, but she's not sure what they are.

And what you do so beautifully, and I think the reason you can explore all of it in a way that's not terribly offensive, and even you say, I recognize that in an era of Me Too, what I'm about to say is hard, but we didn't believe her. And I just— I don't know why that makes me so happy to hear you be honest about how families are. Families are so unique, you know. They're not your relation with the rest of the world. There's things that are fine within a family, and there's this weird magical relationship between siblings where it's like we are the meanest to each other. Your sister walks down with a zit and you're like, whoa, you have a fucking zit! You know, like you're just so cruel. And then you also kill for them and defend them. And it's just a very specific and unique experience being in a family. And the honesty that you bring to that— I just left that thing going, man, you tackled everything that was hard. And we come out of it, me going like, yeah, he knows what it's like to be in a family. That's what it's like to be in a family.

That's the experience right there. And I just love it so much.

I've gotten so many letters from people who have a Tiffany in their And they understand how hard it can be. 'Cause there were certain people who were like, "You're a disgusting person. You know, you turned your back on your sister." But they don't quite understand. You know, Tiffany called my dad at one point and enlisted a friend to tape the conversation and said, "Do you think I'm sexy?" Like, she thought— She's entrapping him? Yeah, trying to entrap him. Oh, no. And then when Tiffany died, he never seemed terribly upset about it. I never saw him cry. He said she had a rotten life. And that was it. A lot of people always assume that if someone in your family kills themselves, that you're overcome with guilt. Like, someone just asked me that last night. "Do you feel guilty?" And I said, "For what?" For so many people who were mentally ill who wind up killing themselves, I don't know, you'd have to think pretty highly of yourself that you could stop it.

I also think you and I, as a gift, have the model of addiction, which is we know what it's like to be in a state of mind where nobody can really interfere. You're on your mission, and either you will get sick and tired of being sick and tired, or you won't. But no one else is going to interfere with that. And I think once you understand that, it's easier for you to apply it to people and have a little healthier distance from it, and not the illusion that you can fix it.

Sometimes be like, I can't be around it, you know.

I just can't. That's the reality of mental illness, that yeah, if you don't have anyone in your life who's experienced it, you wouldn't know. Like, yeah, sometimes you have to walk away from that person, which does sound really mean, but— or you will die. It's a survival mechanism sometimes to walk away.

And I'm sure my father, you know, from Tiffany calling and accusing him of being, you know, again, like, my dad was a creep. Just because you're a creep doesn't mean you're a pedophile. It doesn't help your case any. Right, right, right. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, there's some inconvenient history here. Okay, so if you're open to it, I would love for you to read Punching Down. Sure, let's see.

Here we go. Gosh, I haven't read this. Well, I read it on stage when I recorded the audiobook, and I think that was the last time I haven't read it out loud on the book tour. When I first moved to New York in 1990, I knew a total of 5 people. They all had lives of their own. I couldn't just plop myself down and demand their attention. So I signed up for a once-a-week class taught at the West Side YMCA, hoping I could make a friend or two there. Writing Funny, the course was called, and it was taught by a British woman named Frida Garmaze, who was maybe in her mid-60s at the time and had published several books. "What are the rules of comedy writing?" she asked at the start of our first session. I put my hand up. You should never make fun of anyone who has less power than you. Frida looked at me with a combination of disgust and pity. Where on earth did you get that idea? she asked. I groped for an answer. The Village Voice, maybe? No, no, no, she said. The only rule in comedy is that you should always be as tasteless as I think about that moment a lot, especially now when the phrase punching down has become ubiquitous.

It's the worst crime a comic or humor writer can commit, at least according to the people who now decide such things, meaning people on X who determine based, I suppose, on your photo and a wild guess at your net worth, who you can and cannot make jokes about. Words, we are now regularly reminded, are violence. Silences as well. I read not long ago that capitalism is violence, as is misgendering someone. Ignoring someone is violence, but so too is paying attention to them. A friend recently called on one of her assistants to deliver a statistic during a business meeting and was later charged with casual violence. Apparently, Deborah needed to give advance warning warning that she was going to ask a question, one that might possibly put her employee, someone who was well paid to know stuff and be able to spew it forth, on the spot. Who are these hothouse flowers, all so easily and consistently wounded? People whose parents never hit them. That's who. People who don't know what real pain is but still want to throw the word around. When I child, a slap across the face was too minor to qualify as casual violence.

It was simply what you got for talking back or holding everyone up. It never hurt all that much. What stung was the swiftness of it, the surprise. Who knew my mother could move so fast, like someone belted in the martial arts? I don't feel like it traumatized me to be knocked around a little. Blood was rarely drawn. No limbs were broken. Could my parents have made their point without resorting to violence? Probably. But it would have taken more time. And with 6 kids to dress and get out the door, that was a precious commodity. I see parents now who worry they're being abusive if they don't spend at least an hour putting their child to bed. An hour. I said to my sister Amy, do you remember ever ever once being tucked in? Can you imagine Mom and Dad reading to us or singing? Can you imagine them kissing us? Uh, she said, stop. Look at us, we're fine. We can handle stuff. We never get offended by anything. Part of this is that there were so many of us. A child needs brothers and sisters, the more the better. Good siblings will press your favorite doll's face onto a red-hot barbecue then steal the money the tooth fairy left under your pillow.

They'll deposit things inside of you when you're 4, then sleep with your boyfriend 12 years later. We'll, in short, prepare you to live in the real world. Better still, they'll dilute the Eye of Sauron-like attention given to an only child. My mother couldn't remember our names half the time, much less care whether felt anxious or depressed. One of the worst things that's happened to us as a country is that people are having fewer kids than they did in the past. Sure, it's good for the environment— fewer people means less demand for resources. The problem is that single children receive a freakish amount of love and attention. Most graduate at least 12 times before leaving high school. Their every move It was recorded and celebrated, and it gives them an outside sense of their own importance. Our parents thought we were okay at best, and I think that really helped us in the long run. Ask someone now if they have kids, and they're pretty much guaranteed to use the word amazing, as in, "I have an amazing 6-year-old daughter." Amazing because she just discovered a cure for MS, or because she speaks 3 words of Spanish, I always want to ask.

I mean, just how low have you set that bar? The solution isn't for every couple to start having 5 kids, but maybe for one chosen couple to have 5 and the other 4 couples to go without. Either have a full litter you can't dote on or nothing at all. If our schools are a mess, it's in large part due to these parents who think their kids are special, who get mad mad if you contradict their brilliance, if you give them a bad grade, or God forbid, try to take their phones away. Had one of my teachers told my mother that I was acting up in class, she'd have said, "Thank you so much for letting me know." Then she'd have come to wherever I was, in front of the TV or at the side of the TV, making my way to the front of it, and slapped my sister Gretchen so hard her eyes would have crossed. What was that for? Gretchen would have asked. Oops, wrong kid, my mother would have said. Then she'd have slapped me twice as hard to make up for my mistake. I was in Los Angeles not long ago, staying at a hotel in Bel Air.

Houses in that neighborhood start at $20 million, so of course there are no sidewalks. You wouldn't want the wrong people wandering it. So I was on the far edge of a winding street, Porsches and BMWs racing by, when I saw a van-sized private school bus pull up in front of a gated mansion. A mother ushered her child, age 7 or so, through the door as I passed. I walked on for another 5 minutes before turning back, surprised to see that the school bus hadn't moved in the time I had been gone. Rather, it was where I had left it, the engine idling, the mother still at the door mewing over the sound of her crying child, "Well, Atticus, honey, where do you want to sit?" So the bus driver and all these kids had to wait until this one woman's son was happy with his seat. I think that if you don't want to spank or slap your child, that is fine, your decision, but that other people should be completely allowed to. Not Higglety Pigglety, but in this situation, The driver had every right to yank Atticus into whichever seat was empty, saying, "Shut the fuck up.

We're leaving." Children now are like animals who have no natural predators left. Had I arrived at my elementary school with a bleeding head wound, explaining that my father had just thrown me out of his moving car because I was teasing my sister, the teacher would've handed me a Band-Aid band-aid saying, "Well, I hope you learned a lesson." Now even a scratch on the back of your hand could get your parents locked up for abuse, and children know this. In a London park one afternoon, I saw a woman glaring into the distance to where 3 kids aged 7 to 9 were breaking branches off a tree. "Hey, you boys!" she shouted. "Stop doing that!" You can't talk 'Talk to us,' the ringleader shouted back. And he was right. At least legally, according to the law, the woman was bullying them. I was in a crowded restaurant one night and saw this 4-year-old running back and forth across the candlelit dining room. Her parents charmed. This as servers were carrying heavy trays of hot food. I kept waiting for the manager to say something, but they're all afraid now of being condemned on social media. Media. She didn't seem innately horrible, this girl, but I think we'd all been better off had someone said, "You sit down right now." In this case, though, it was really the parents who needed to be hit.

Ditto the couple I saw the next morning at breakfast. They came with two kids, age maybe 4 and 6, and each of them was watching a different program on an iPad. Neither had headphones on, and the high-pitched voices of the cartoon characters— "Let's go see what the letter M him is up to was super disturbing. If this was a sports bar, the sort with billboard-sized TVs and loud music playing at the same time, it might have been different. But it was the restaurant of a nice hotel, one that offered room service. Do the parents know that this is not their house? I wondered, thinking finally of a couple I saw on the subway in Yokohama once. Their 18-month-old son was them. And when the boy wanted to look out the window, his mother removed his shoes, took a towel out of her bag, and spread it upon the seat so that he could stand on it. Just before we reached their station, the woman pulled out a small spray bottle along with a paper napkin and cleaned the kids' handprints off the glass. So actually, maybe that's a solution. You have a child or two and then send them off to be raised in Japan until they're 18 or so and have learn proper manners.

When they return and you tell them how absolutely awesome and special they are, they will look at you and blink, not understanding and thus not believing a word of it.

Oh, so good, so good, and so true.

Okay, you gotta go. I adore you. It's so fun when you come. I just wanted to update you on something. Another one of my very favorite stories of yours is talking about what we call when we do the prompt foreign objects bodies, which is what nurses and doctors call anyone who sticks something up their ass. And you have the funniest story about— the explanation is always, I slip and fell. And that your theory is you could be holding— what are you holding at the top of the Empire State Building stairs?

Oh gosh, I could be holding— it's not a rolling pin, is it? Is it?

It's, uh, like a candelabra or something.

I could be holding, uh, two candles. We could get Delta in here.

She has this whole thing memorized as well. Well. But the point is, you're holding a ton of stuff, and you're pretty certain that if you fell down all 96 flights of the stairs, when you stood up, you would not have a candle stuck in your rectum. But I just wanted you to know that we do a prompt now. So about once every 3 months, people submit stories of foreign objects in body, and we've now just had our third one come out next Friday. And you would be fast— I do encourage you to listen to these. It's all nurses and doctors telling the stories, and we've heard some that would make your head spin. There are Um, next week, in fact, the one that's coming out is the woman was calling about one story. And then just as a side note, because I always ask them like, how many have you seen? They've all seen 40 or 50 of these. It's always men. There's almost never been a woman. That's why it was a sidebar. She goes, well, we did have one woman once, and she was a furry. She identified as a furry who was a cat.

And when she came in, she had to admit she had wanted to experience what it's like to have a litter of kittens, to birth kittens. And she had put 3— oh wow— kittens in her vagina, and they scratched her off.

Well, we don't know what happened in there. We don't. But she did die.

She passed from it before she could hear the pussy jokes. Yeah, exactly.

There's a lot of pussy to be had there. Yeah, it's like, where do we want— we know we're using pussy. Are we gonna use it for the cats, for the vagina?

Just so much right there.

And then one that'll make your husband too is another one told us— another woman came in, she had put 3 razor blades in her vagina and then super glued her labia shut. Huh. Yeah. So she arrives, she announces this, they send her up to surgery. In the meantime, nurse reads her chart and discovers she has Munchausen's. And when you have Munchausen's, there's a very specific protocol for the doctors because they don't want to give you the payoff you're looking for. So you have to be kind of disinterested, not a lot of follow-up questions, don't offer more services. If they'll try to get you to like feed them and do all this stuff, and you have to resist. So the woman comes out of surgery, so they don't want her to stay because they know she wants to be there forever. So they're going to discharge her in an hour. She calls the family, come get them in an hour. So she got basically an hour in there. The woman who had been admitted said, can I work on my homework while while I'm waiting to get picked up. And the nurse thought, well, how bad could this be?

She goes through her book bag that was in a closet, she gets out the one folder she needs. She said she shook it upside down. She got a pen that she felt safe about, gave it to her. She left, got back to her nurse station, and in 5 minutes the bell rang. She went in there and she said, what's going on? She said, I swallowed a razor blade. And she goes, where did you get the razor blade? And she held up her binder and she had put a hole at the top of it and hid razor blades in the binder.

Isn't that crazy? Wow. Wow. I was, uh, the kittens, signing books. I met a woman, a dentist, a couple weeks ago. I said, do you see a lot of thrush? It's a bacterial disease that turns your tongue white. And she said, occasionally. She said, but what I notice more often is bruising in the backs of women's throats, particularly on February 15th. Ah! Yes. Oh, no! And I said, "I didn't know that the back of the throat could bruise." She said, "Oh, quite clearly. And there are like spots on the back of the throat when it bruises." And she said, "Other times I'll notice it and I'll say, 'What'd you do last night?'" And a woman will say, "Celebrated my husband's birthday, my boyfriend's birthday." But why don't we know this? Yeah. Yeah. Because if you were gonna go to the dentist tomorrow, wouldn't you be like, like, not today. Yeah, exactly.

Oh my God, can you imagine?

Can you imagine like somebody doing that? I mean, there must be people who have done that.

Oh yeah, nurses and doctors pretty regularly now, they're seeing every single imaginable thing. Like, if you can think about it, they've seen it.

People like to shock. I mean, that's also a big majority of us just It's really like shock value.

But I feel like so many of the things people put up their ass and they do it again and again. I feel like if you're a doctor, you could say, you know what? I got people who were in car accidents. You're just going to have to wait until what time? If it's today, if it's not today, because you put a horseshoe up your ass. Like something that isn't even conducive. Oh, yeah.

Oh, David, we've now heard people put like whole propane tanks up their ass. Where now they can't operate on it because there's a hazardous explosive. Like, they got to get the bomb unit in there. But the thing that makes me sympathetic, the reason I'm so compassionate, is more than half of the stories start with what, Monica?

The wife was out of town.

More than half are the wife was out of town is the first bit of information you get. And you think these poor men have been waiting. They're almost always older men too.

I spent 10 days at the medical examiner's office in Phoenix, and they take a picture of everyone who comes in. And the wife's out of town. Yes! The husband dresses in her clothes, autoerotic asphyxiation, accidentally dies. So the wife has no idea, comes back, husband's dead in the closet, hung himself, dressed like— not dressed like— not fooling anybody. Yeah! Right. With pantyhose on and a bra and a wig, and then hanging dead in the closet. But it's fine. It's horrible. But nobody— I wrote about that in a radio story once, and they cut it out. Nobody talks about it. It's an epidemic. Like, it never occurred to me. I had to read about it because it never occurred to me. Oh, I know, I'll hang myself, right? Yeah, while masturbating. That should be fun. And it wouldn't occur to me.

It's not obvious to me.

And maybe they don't talk about it because they don't want people doing it, right? Right. So many people do it, and they just do it a little bit too long. So when I'm reading the newspaper and it's an obituary for like a 17, 18, 19, 20, or even an older person, there's no cause of death.

That's where your mind goes pretty much.

Yeah, they were in pantyhose of Brazil.

But it's because they have kinks that they feel embarrassed they can't tell their partner or do.

It makes me sad.

Yeah. So then they wait till they're out of town and they die.

Yeah. That's a moralism. Wives should never go out of town.

Literally, that's what you're like. Oh, they're out of town.

If you're over 50, you cannot leave your over 50-year-old husband at home. God knows what you'll come home to. David, I adore you. I just want to join your life. I want to retire and then just go on the road with you and be Dawn and just help with the book signings or something. So just that offer's on the table if you ever— if she wants to sit out sometime and you just need a right-hand man for free. Well, you know what, I'm coming back.

I have a show in Pasadena in the fall. Oh, you do?

Okay, I would love to be your assistant.

I'm gonna need somebody to go down that line.

Okay, I would love that. That'd be fun. Yes, I would of that. Okay, I adore you. I know, our first parasocial relationship and real life relationship, it's confusing and exhilarating. So I can't wait for you to come back. Oh, everybody get The Land and Its People. It's fucking brilliant, as are all of them. 15 in a row that are brilliant is incredible. The Land and Its People, it's out now. Get it. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes.

Makes all the time.

Thank God Monica's here, she's gonna let him have the facts. Hello, Monica Padua.

Hello, Dax Shepard. We're back, baby, we're back.

Did you have any anxiety about coming back?

Yeah, I wouldn't say I had anxiety, like I didn't have nerves. Okay, but I did have, I did have you know, an existential crisis.

Oh wow, this is great. Let's get— we're starting right away with a crisis.

What was it? Well, I just— we didn't do fact checks, obviously. Yeah. Um, this summer, it's been 2 months. I haven't seen you in 2 months. Yeah, darns near. Almost exactly 2 months. Yeah. And, um, that's— we don't normally do that. We do not fact check.

Yeah, we haven't had 2 months, quote, off in, uh, 8— over 8 years.

No, and even when we do summers, we still do fact checks remote, right?

So already, rookie mistake, out of practice, I left my spray inside. Can I quickly grab it? Yeah, we'll make it. I won't make it. I'll be right back. That's okay.

We're gonna have some stutters.

We're gonna have some stutter starts, clumsy moments.

Yeah, I hope the audience Is okay with that. Um, I will say, for people who— I ran into so many Armchairs this summer. It was so lovely. All over the world. Literally all over the world. Yeah. And, um, often they would say, we're really— we want the fact checks back.

Well, that's nice.

And it was very nice. And so I, I thank you. Anywho, um, okay, my existential crisis. Yeah, please. I have still been editing, which maybe this is why I'm still— I've still been connected. I'm still seeing us. I'm still doing some things. Yeah. But normally I'm antsy. I'm ready to be back. I am like feeling nervous that maybe you don't want to be back and, you know, all of that. Yeah. I gotta tell you, it flipped on you. I don't know what happened this summer, but I I really enjoyed the time.

Oh, lovely.

Like, really too much.

Okay, this is really fun and unexpected because I think we had reverse, reverse experiences.

Okay, yeah, we need to talk about it. I mean, not that— of course I'm happy to be back and I love this job. It's so lucky. I honestly, I thought that throughout the whole summer, I just kept thinking, man, my life, this life, like, what is going on that I have this I have a job that's allowing me to have months off and enjoy that time. Yeah. And like, I— yeah, I was just filled with gratitude. Um, but I— you know when you wake up and you're like, oh, just 5 more minutes?

Yes, you had a 5 more minutes feeling. Yeah. Yes. So first and foremost, I had an awesome summer. There's no two ways about it. I had an awesome summer. So many wonderful memories, got to see so many different people. Yeah, truly great. Also, yeah, we didn't— and I didn't even edit, right? Yeah. So I literally could pretend I don't have a job.

Yeah. And we didn't talk really, like, we didn't have much face-to-face interaction at all. We just text.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it was peculiar for me. It really was, because I have this whole fantasy about being retired and unemployed. Yes, yes, yes. And I will say, after about 4 or 5 weeks, the first thing I thought is like something would happen and I would be like, oh, I want to talk about it on the Fat Chat.

I know.

So that's lovely. That's a great feeling to have, like, oh, I very much miss getting to hash stuff out with Monica.

Yes, I agree.

And then there was more existential stuff happening, which was like, oh wow, so okay, so this is what it really looks And I guess my best comparison, and by the way, I know I'll change my mind 40 more times. Of course. But just currently today, what I felt like is I have quit caffeine in the past. And I think maybe the longest would be like 3 months. And for sure, I felt the benefits of it in that I was just way calmer. I was not in a rush to get everywhere. I have far less dust-ups with other motorists.

Oh, interesting.

And I was like, oh wow, this is what it's like to be, you know, content moving through the world. But after about 3 months of it, I was like, I don't enjoy being on planet Earth as much being content.

Yeah, I'm a little—

I know, like, I just need a ton of stimulation. I know. And so I don't know, I have no conclusion. Just, I knew, I was like, huh, could I sit at this house indefinitely just because it's pretty and there's nature. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Which then that makes me really scared.

Well, why? It's okay.

Because it's such a promising finish line and it's so aspirational. And in my mind, it like is one thing. Yeah. And then to relearn the lesson you learn in life all the time, which is like, no, no, inactivity is not the road. Yeah. And, and stagnation's not the route to happiness.

And expectations are not good.

Sure, right, right, right, right.

Yeah, they are, you just, they're all, you're always gonna fall short of an expectation.

Yeah, I was just a little bit like, huh. Now there was a lot of compounding factors that also added into that analysis. Do you feel okay to talk about it? Yeah, I will just say in a nutshell, last year was of course so exciting to be in Nashville. No one had ever spent spent a summer on the lake. I had. Yeah. Um, so everyone was just like at a 10 last year, but now kids are older, they're, um, I'm a teenager. Yeah. And, um, everyone had a good time, but people wanted to come home, you know. Like, in fact, Kristen and, and, um, Lincoln came home for a few days. Yeah. Which then, of course, I mean, that's so complicated for me because I have this big fantasy that everyone's gonna love this place and I want everyone to love it as much as me. And I'm like, well, hold on, why are people going back?

Yeah, yeah, that's hard. That's very hard.

And then reckoning with like, okay, wow, so just forget retirement and let's forget 8 years from now, just next summer. Yeah, I don't think next summer will have the shape that this summer had, which is fine. And, uh, yeah, I probably won't be posted up there for that long in a row. Interrupted, period, for some foreseeable time.

Yeah, and that's okay. But also, it's a year away. We don't know what it's gonna look like.

We don't, because last year, of course, I'm like, yeah, we're gonna live there. Yeah, we're gonna sit there in that Eden.

We're moving in.

Just be so delighted.

Yeah, which might come around again. Who knows? Maybe next summer everyone will be like, we really want to— who knows, you know?

And only one of us in the group is 51 years old, so it's like one of us is also at a different life stage. That's right.

But even your saying, even for you—

well, again, I can't, I can't really parse out which part is which. Of course. I just know that I have more questions. Yeah. Than I had last year at the end of summer, which I'm kind of fine with. And then, so then I got back Monday night. Yes. At like 11 o'clock at night, and I didn't want to leave, you know. I didn't want— in fact, they all came back 6 days before me. Yes, we'd always been planning on staying to the date I stayed, but then the girls were like, I don't want to get back and start school the next day, which is totally fair. Yeah. And, um, and I had scheduled two different friendship hangs during that time, really insanely special. Uh, both of them were so fucking wonderful. Um, but I wasn't dying to get back. And then I, um, I woke up here yesterday and I was like, hmm, pretty good. You can't beat the weather here, man. I know. I mean, the weather in summer, for it to be 82 and it's like there's no humidity. And I was just— I have a grievance.

Everyone in LA, I'm seeing, you know, they're posting and they're like, it's so hot. Like, everyone's— I'm like, guys, you do not understand.

Yeah, yeah. Because I was in the heat bubble of Europe. You were in some of it too, right?

Yeah, I was in Paris when everyone was dying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I was, I was in Hungry. Yeah. And it was insane. It was 100 degrees every day and very high humidity. So it was like, it felt, um, uh, life-threatening.

And in the South, it's just a different kind of heat. It just is. I was just there and I was like, ah, like, and I love the heat, and it was oppressive. And I— and not even close to the same like temperature as it is here. It is technically cooler there, but it is not. And it— no, you are swimming through the air. So LA, You guys, we need to relax. Like, we have it so good here, it's crazy.

Yeah, and it pretty much never gets— it gets ugly at the— in September. Yeah, but that's—

and even then, yeah, yeah, I don't know.

So yeah, and then I went hiking this morning and, uh, I was like, yeah, this place is— it's— well, it's beautiful. It is. I'm just immune to it because I've been here for 30 years. Yeah, but if you're gone for 2 months, I'm like, yeah, it's objectively beautiful here. I know, the weather's objectively really nice. And my little corner of this city is incredible. Yeah. And, um, I had my hard shell tacos last night. I was like, oh, that's right, I love it here. I love it here. This is really funny that we had a reversal, kind of.

Well, it is funny. Sometimes you have to get away to have the gratitude for what, um, you know, sometimes you gotta lose it to know what you have. What did they distance makes the heart grow fonder.

It does, it does.

Um, and it does. I mean, even like being in Europe, which was so fun— oh my God, such— I had such a good time, Paris and London. But then, you know, you do— you, you realize things that you take for granted at home. Home being the United States, like, starting there, you realize like, oh yeah, like like, man, they have no urgency. Like, I, I'm like gonna miss my flight. That's never happened, and it has nothing to do with me. It's because they're just standing there. Sure. Um, so, you know, you, you go, yes, with a lot of fantasy about leaving your life and like this beautiful other, um, experience.

And, um, and you can ride it for a long time. Yeah, you know, like the same, no matter where yeah, there you are. Yep. But that is actually, I think, true but delayed. Yeah, you get reprieves from it. Yeah, like there are full weeks if you get— if you're lucky enough to go to Europe where you're like, oh yeah, man, I'm European. No, I'm like, I drink cappuccino all day long. Like, you really can— so you can snap into thinking you're someone different, but then ultimately it creeps back in.

Well, it's really funny because so Elizabeth and Andy are in Bordeaux. I think I told you they moved there. Yes, they moved there for a year, who knows, and maybe more. Yeah. Um, and I mean, I would definitely urge people to listen to their podcast because it's like funny to hear. They're of course having a great time and it's beautiful and they love it, but moving somewhere is so different from having a vacation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, hearing the kind of struggles is, is interesting and does make you feel grateful for, like, home. Home is meaningful to me. I've always said that, and I think sometimes I get, like, prickly when other people want to leave. You? Yeah, sure. And, um, yeah, but man, it was a good summer. It was a good— I went a lot of places, but I also had a lot of good time at home.

Well, let's attempt to go chronologically, I think. Okay.

Oh wait, can I say one really, really— the most important thing that happened this Summer? Yes. My brother had a baby. Yes. Oh my God, yes, just weeks ago. Yeah, yeah, his name is Memphis.

Oh, it is? I only heard the nickname, which is so easy. Why is his nickname Fizzy?

It's so cute because it was Memphis to Fizz from Memphis. Okay, Fizz, and then Fizz turned to Fizzy.

And your dad's only calling him Fizzy already, right? Fizzy.

He wants to start a podcast called Fizzy and Me where he just walks around and talks. And I was like, okay, well, just sounds like you.

I'm in, I'm in.

I said— he said it's a 50/50 split. I said, that's a pretty good deal considering he's not going to do anything or attribute anything other than a visual. My dad made a good point though. He said, well, they're— they to see him. And I was like, that actually is true.

That's solid.

Yeah. Um, but he's so, so sweet. I got to meet him last week and he's so small. And he has—

how much did he weigh when he was born? 7-something. Okay, so good size. Yeah.

And then he's back up in weight. He's doing great. He has great Padman hair. Also, Emily, his wife, uh, also has great hair. Memphis has a lot of good stuff going on. I'm jealous.

He already has much more hair than than I do. Yeah, from the photo I saw, he has a lot of hair.

Yeah, he's really nice. Anyway, that was— that's like, that's a big deal for the family. Everyone's very happy and healthy and good.

Is it so fun to watch your parents be grandparents?

Oh my gosh, it's so— it's so heartwarming. It's like very— I love that.

There's a but coming, I can feel it. They're gonna get no break.

Okay, I don't even want to say it because I feel bad saying it.

It's so cute and endearing. It is. Yeah, of course. Of course.

It is. I feel bad saying this. Like, I feel like I probably shouldn't say it because my mom is so sensitive.

Let me guess, do you get annoyed sometimes?

No, no, actually, it's just the baby voice is hard for me.

Oh, sure.

Okay, great. That's all I want to say. Okay, great.

That's, that's a standard— that's a well-worn grievance for people.

Like, we all have— babe, we all do a little voice around little babies, but like, it just— and maybe it's also just I didn't know that was coming and it doesn't feel familiar.

Like, in some deep recess of your brain, it's not how she spoke to you.

Well, that's what you asked her. Yeah, I said, I don't remember this.

Okay, so you brought it up.

Oh yeah, I don't know if it was gentle. Um, but when I first heard it, I like snapped my head over at Neil and I was like, oh my God. And he was like, did he roll his eye?

Like, did you guys share a knowing look?

Well, my mom, because she is the already the best grandma, she lived with them for the first 2 and a half weeks to help, and she bonded so quickly with Memphis. Yeah, fizzy. And he, um, yeah, when my mom holds me, just immediately like, yeah, that's right.

Nothing better than being held by Grandma.

I know, he loves his grandma. It's really cute. And so I'm so happy for her. Yeah, and my dad and all of us. But like, the voice is just wild. And do you— can you—

do you think you couldn't do it?

Yes, I can do it, but I won't do it.

You're not gonna do it? Will you do it for me? Honestly? Oh, you won't do it for me off of the air?

I won't because I I actually feel guilty. Like, I know she feels sweet and connected. Yeah. And so it feels like so mean that I care about that. I actually don't care about it, but I, I do bristle every time.

Well, she's calling attention to herself. Yeah.

And she should be able to, of course.

But your, your kind of primary wound is, is the calling attention to yourself.

And she doesn't call attention to herself in life.

So no, I would say that would be one of my criticisms of her. I'd like to see her shine. Yeah.

So Maybe that's part of it. It's like she's breaking out. Oh my God, she's uninhibited because this little sweet baby—

she's filled with the confidence of love.

I know, it's so nice. It is. But I just really don't remember it. She's like, okay, all right, it's not that. Um, it's— it is specific.

Could you ask Neil to do a little sly recording just so I can hear it?

No, I have a recording of it. I'm not gonna play it.

For me though, you will.

Mm-mm. After the show, I just feel like it's public. I feel like it's humiliating.

Well, I'm not asking you to do it on here. No, I mean, between you and I, I want to know what this is for. I mean, now I'm dying to hear what—

I know, I know, I know, I know. It's so bad. Yeah, yeah. But it's so nice and like, I feel conflicted and bad about it. And she's a great grandma, but I don't even remember it with my brother. I was there. You were 8. Yeah. So I— that's why it's like, oh, this feels brand new and I don't get it.

Well, she said maybe it's not reflective of a time of her life now. Maybe.

But she said she did that with us.

Oh, she did? Yeah. But you're calling— I, I'm like, you're a little—

so my body does not recognize it. Yeah. And it's rejecting it.

Okay, understood. Anyway, the immune system's deployed.

Anyway, everyone's very happy.

Okay, great, great. Gregor. Um, okay, back to—

so, okay, beginning of summer, let's time travel.

Okay, so I think the first— well, first of all, Idaho was so spectacular.

Oh yeah, you went with the Kimmels.

Went with the Kimmels. Ike was a new guest this year, Baron Holtz. We love Ike, who was so much fun. He's ever— and what a perfect fit for that scene. So yeah, tons of fun with Ike, just a really perfect time there. Um, flew to Budapest and I think my first morning at the hotel— so the Richardsons were there a day before us at the hotel— and I come down for breakfast the first morning we're there. We had gotten in really late the night before. My family's not up yet, and I go downstairs. Well, Molly's already there with one of the girls, I can't remember which. And, um, as soon as I sit down, she goes, your friend's here. And I go, what? She goes, your friend is at the hotel, um, Swartz Schwarzenegger. And so I look out the window of the, uh, restaurant in the hotel, and there's a little sliver of sidewalk where there's tables. And sure enough, Schwarzenegger's out there playing chess. Yeah, with what appears to be some kind of security. Okay, a person I've never seen. And just to refresh people's memory, um, 20 years ago I got invited on a motorcycle ride with him.

We got along really well. I started going and bringing him out on stage as he was fundraising. This escalated to me literally watching a movie with him at his home, next to him while he was in a bathrobe. Okay, like that's the level of knowing him. I knew it. I knew. Yeah, you know, you spent some time years ago. Okay, so I see him and I'm so excited. I haven't seen him in, I don't know, 15, 20 years. And so I go out to the little sidewalk where he's sitting. And I noticed pretty quickly as I'm approaching the back of him, there is a dude pushing himself through the little fica plants because he's seen him from the sidewalk. Okay. And he's actively trying to get his attention, and he's about 2 feet away with his head through bushes. Okay, this bogey. Uh-huh. So he's already kind of ignoring that energy. Okay. Yeah. And now I come up on the left side of him from behind. And I go, um, Arnold, how's it going? And he doesn't look up at me at all. He just keeps staring at the chessboard. And like the bodyguard kind of looks at me.

And now I go like, oh yeah, he's kind of in protection mode. He's like blocking out that guy, me, whatever. Yeah. I put my hand on his shoulder. It's a real big swing, but it's not because I know him.

Did you say it's Dax?

So I put my hand on my shoulder— on his shoulder. I go, I go, Arnold, it's Dax. And I keep thinking he's going to go like, oh, oh my God, I didn't know that it was you. How are you doing? What are you doing in Budapest? You know, like, sure, that's coming. Yeah. Now I have my hand on his shoulder and I'm saying, it's Dax. He still does not move his eyes from the chessboard at all. And now the bodyguard is starting to wonder, right, is this a problem? Arnold clearly doesn't know this guy. He's big. I'm a big gentleman. Yeah. And I'm manhandling now Schwarzenegger, and he gives me this kind of crazy look. And now I kind of assess— now we're getting into some tricky situation. Like, the bodyguard's getting nervous. He will not look at me. And then I just go, all right, take care. And I, I walk inside and I, um, I sit down and I think Molly watched the whole thing. And I go, yeah, dude, he, he either is in, in such a protective mode that he literally blocked me out, or he doesn't have— he doesn't remember me at all.

Or option 3, hit me, he's really into the chess game. No, that takes so much concentration.

I mean, I grabbed his shoulder. I, I don't think that one was likely. Okay, it's got to be one of the first two.

Well, I'm not ruling it out.

Okay, now, so I'm having a huge laugh at this, like, kind of how embarrassing. So I eat breakfast, whatever, I think it's kind of funny. Then slowly my family starts trickling in, and now Eric's here, now the whole gang at breakfast. Yeah. And an hour goes by or something, and now he's— now he's walking. He's entered the restaurant. He's now walking through, and he walks right by our table. And now I think, okay, now he's not playing chess, the other guy's not there, he's looking forward, and I'm with Kristen, right? Maybe he has forgotten me, but I bet he knows who Kristen Bell is. Oh, that's my assumption. And so as he's walking by the table, like I give it another— no, yeah, I give it another shot because it's a little— money's a little nuts to me that he doesn't remember.

Put your hands—

I couldn't. I was sitting, I was seated, and he was walking by. Okay, now as he's walking by, I go, I go, Arnold, I hope embarrassed you are already.

I'm so scared.

I go, Arnold, it's Dax and Kristen. I throw Kristen's name in the mix, you know?

Yeah.

And now he just Oh yeah, how you doing? And then he just cruises out.

Okay, so he at least— but he didn't—

there was nothing. I think he was like, now we're inside this hotel, so now I think he's being a little more civil to the riffraff that's trying to get his attention. And so he just— again, he just cruises out. I see him like 2 or 3 more times in the week that we are there, and I don't even fucking try, right? Yeah, but you said your name. Yeah, I don't— Monica, I don't know. I don't know what was going on.

How's your ego?

It's totally fine. That's good. If anything, it helps answer the question why he's not come on the show when we've invited him and he's gone to other places. I'm like, what's— I don't think he remembers that he knows me, which is fine because I still have all my memories of knowing him. Can—

maybe you should send him an email and be like, hey, here's what's going on, this is what's going on, it kind of hurts my feelings a little. And you could make it up to me by coming on my podcast. Mm-hmm. You know, set some— makes— do some guilt trips.

I mean, the man has had a life of being famous. Yes. And Schwarzenegger— I mean, he's so Schwarzenegger. Who are we just— it's like the biggest star ever, you know?

Talking— who do we just have on that was in a movie with him and was talking about this? Scott?

No, it was, um, it was Ellen Richardson. They have, they have a Christmas movie coming out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said that like he— it's just another level of fame. And he's pretty— he's great.

And his description of how he was was not the description I was met with. But who cares? I have no, like, no, I have zero— no, I know— frustration with them or judgment or any of this stuff. I'm like, yeah, dude, this dude's life, it's like he's fucking trying to play chess and a guy's crawling through bushes. And it's been that way for the last 50 years of his life or whatever.

More than just being famous, he was also a politician. I mean, it's just literally everyone knows him.

Yes. I don't know, it's just interesting that, like, again, back to me evaluating how long I want to do any one thing. I'm like, man, he's been doing this for a long time. There's a lot of— a lot of his life has been at hotels in other countries trying to stay busy until he goes to work. And yeah, probably not wanting to be at work, but then getting home and be like, I don't want to be here either. You know, I don't know, it's just an interesting life that I got to observe. So that was one funny thing that happened right out of the gate.

That is funny.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

There's a ding, ding, ding. What is it? Okay, because this is for Sedaris. Oh, wonderful. Our friend. And there's a fact that is a ding, ding, ding. Oh, wow. Okay. Which is, can you get a stomachache from hemorrhoids?

Right, because the father thought the source of his stomachache might be hemorrhoids, even though the boy didn't express that there was any hemorrhoids. Yeah.

And the answer is no. A stomachache is not a direct symptom of hemorrhoids. Hemorrhoids are swollen veins localized strictly in the lower rectum and anus. However, they often share a common root cause, such as severe constipation or straining, that can trigger both anal discomfort and abdominal cramping at the same time. Time. Now this is a ding ding ding, so why don't you share why this is a ding ding ding?

Okay, so I did not have constipation. I had a harness the first few days I was, uh, traveling after Idaho. And yeah, I had my first hemorrhoid, and let me tell you, I did not enjoy it whatsoever. I see— I think I have a pretty good sense of humor about the things that go on with my body, be it my dead toenails or whatever. This, I was like, no thank you.

And is that because you got worried it had to do with age?

Well, sure. I'm like, oh my God, is this my future, right? Have we reached the age where this, like, I'm gonna battle this now? Yeah, in rapid succession it's that. Then it's like, I really gotta curb my toilet use. I cannot sit there and watch— yeah, Instagram videos for 45 minutes. They warn about this. I know. And I had just been like, yeah, that's not happening to me. I'm like, okay, I gotta— I need all new hygiene around this. And then just the feeling is— I hate it. I hate it.

What did it—

when I touch it, I didn't even like touching it. Really? No. And you know I like to touch everything. Yeah.

Did it just feel like a bubble? What did it feel like? Yeah, like a bubble, but like soft, or—

well, and the initial— I don't know, man. It just— I don't really want to go— how far up is it? It's, it's around the edge of— it's a— yeah, it's a swollen vein that is now coming out out. It's coming out. You can't tell if it's part of your— you can't tell if it's part of your anus or if it's coming from inside, right? But it was different. And I was like, oh Lord, this vacation is all about walking. Yeah, for 10 hours a day. Yeah. And walking doesn't feel great. I have a question.

So did— so let's say you're just on the toilet, right? Let's just say this.

I took a picture of it when it first happened. I'm like, oh my God, what is going on down there? I gotta picture. Do you want me to put on the TV?

Oh my God, throw it up there.

And I looked at it and it made me immediately depressed. Oh, I hated how it looked. And I was like, oh my God, I want to take a flamethrower to my whole butt cheek area. I'm like, I'm disgusting. And I— and, and I'm disgusting. And I looked at the picture and then I erased it. Wow. I'm like, I don't even want to— I don't want to I don't want to see that ever again.

Okay, now when, when did you notice you had it? You were on the toilet and you were like, ow.

Yeah, I wiped. Okay. And it was sensitive and I felt something. Oh yeah. So, and then ultimately, as you know, then, then Kristen went into a local pharmacy and bought hemorrhoid cream for me. Preparation H in a different language, but you can't mistake the labeling and the packaging. Thank God, right? You know, you can see what Preparation H looks like in your head. I think it has a plus on it. Yeah, and it's like yellow with blue square in the middle. It's very memorable. Okay, it's seeing Grandma and Grandpa's medicine cabinet, you know. I didn't eat in it. No, the Padmans never had any hemorrhoid action. I've never— look at that, right? Isn't that classic? We're looking at the picture of the Preparation H. Yeah, big yellow box with a nice blue rectangle, an ointment in yellow as well. So she got that for me, and I was like, God bless you. I would be, I would be so embarrassed buying that really in public because everyone looking at me would know I have a hemorrhoid, right?

Right.

And so I was like, you know, hun, there's gonna be a story now that you have hemorrhoids, right? But there wasn't. There wasn't. But then I made— yeah, then you—

yeah, there is going to be a story because you made— just— I made one.

Yeah, so I made a tabloidy article on AI. Yeah. And it did such a good job. Like, I don't know if you spent any time looking at that post.

I did, because at first I thought— I was like, what? What?

The things it did in the corner, like, it did it just like those tabloids where it's like a little box. It's like, Kristen's 5 tips for whatever, you know?

Like, that is pretty. Yeah, this is the one they made. It's up here.

You can't tell the difference between that. And in fact, oh, it's on the lower lower bottom, what's in Kristen's basket? Okay, see on the very bottom next to the picture of the bridge, it says what's in Kristen's basket.

Oh, I see.

Yeah, because that's what they do in those things, like what's in Kristen's basket. Sure. Anyways, I thought it was so funny. I made it just for us. I know. Well, yeah, and then I saw how funny it was, and then I was like, no, I'm gonna definitely post this. Yeah, because we got such a laugh out of it. Yeah, I mean, did it work, the ointment? Um, insofar as it reduced the symptoms of it, it didn't make it go away right away. It eventually— by the way, it's gone. Okay, cool. It's very gone. There was a, there was a, a longer period, maybe the last few weeks, so there was like, I'm gonna say like a marble feeling on my— somewhere between a marble and a BB. Okay. And now that's completely gone, and I'm so delighted. And I, and I spent too long on the toilet again today. I was like, here we go, as soon as it's gone. I know, you know, back in LA reading, reading Instagram.

I think you should reduce your time on the toilet. I have to, I have to.

Yep, that's a must. Yeah. Um, so that was my first one, and I don't recommend them. Okay. Yeah, don't recommend it.

But that was a crazy ding ding ding.

Yes, it was, for Sidereus.

So that is cool. That was Sim. The one thing that was nice is that David did give me me some recs, some Paris and London recs. Okay. He emailed me, so he had a little bit of an email exchange about recommendations. David Sedaris. Oh, okay. And, um, it was nice. He has great recommendations for shopping, mostly for shopping. He gave me some restaurant recommendations too. So his favorite store is Egg in London. Uh-huh.

Is this where he's getting taxidermied? And stuff? No, it's a clothing store.

Okay. So when I was in London, I kept thinking, I gotta go to Egg, I gotta go to Egg. This is a store that is a must from David. And then I kept pushing and pushing and pushing. And so the last day, the day we're leaving, I was like, I'm going to Egg. So I wake up, I walk over there. It's, it's not close. Um, and it's closed.

Oh no, it was closed that day.

No. So I peeked inside. It was clothes that day. I peeked inside and, um, it did have cute looking things.

It did. Your style. I mean, he is really out there, you'd acknowledge. He's one deviation beyond you with the daringness. He has a lot of— there he wears, um, priest robes and shit, you know, and dresses.

And yes, he does. It just looked like flowy, pretty clothes. Okay, um, so I have to go back. I was on the cutest little street, and that was a sad part of the trip, that I didn't get to go to Egg. But speaking of his fashion— Yes, David's. Yes. One of the facts is who made his shorts that he's wearing in the episode. Oh, uh-huh. And it's Walter von Bierenendonck. My friends. Very hard last name. Mm-hmm. B-I-R-E-N-D-O-N-K.

And CK. No, I wouldn't even try it. Yeah, I'd say pass on that name.

Um, I just was touching my hair and it reminded me of something very important I gotta talk about. Okay, right, right. So we had Taron Egerton.

Incredible episode.

Such a good episode. And he is obviously extremely attractive. Exquisite. Truly exquisite. When he left left, all of us, the three of us, were like, oh boy, yeah, oh boy, powerful.

And you know, no wonder he has always booked auditions. Oh my God, like in Percy, so magnetic. And yeah, you fall in love with him.

Casting couch. If I were— if I were a casting director, I would— casting couch.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, and you know, we did this interview a while ago and it was so good and memorable, and we've been talking about it. And I go to edit it and my hair— so you said this so bad through your eyes. No, no, it is horrible. What's going on?

Because you told me this.

Yeah, I text you. I said—

and, and when I was flying back two nights ago, I was like, I gotta get back into the headspace of the show. I'm gonna watch— so I downloaded from YouTube that episode and I watched it on the plane ride back, and it was midway through the episode before I remembered you said there was something wrong with your hair, because I didn't see anything wrong with your hair. And then even after you said it looks so terrible, I'm looking at it, I'm like, what, what part is she talking about? Walk me through exactly what was—

I think the main interview though, I think I did redo it. Okay, so it looks a little better in the second half than it does the beginning. Uh, but it— I just, I guess I just threw it up. Okay. And in the mirror it must have looked— so you're right, that's the second half. What are you talking about?

Let me find first because I look at that, I guess maybe that's when it occurred to me you said it was wrong and I'm like, I don't, I don't— okay, I don't see what she's saying. It's just voluminous. 24 minutes, 24 minutes in only.

Yeah, I want like, I'll go look at like 6 minutes in. Now first of all, this still isn't great I think it looks great. Oh, look at my stupid face.

Okay, you look so cute. What's going on?

Okay, I just am so embarrassed.

Would it be able to be really fun to be able to like astro travel into other people's eyes? I am dying to see what you're seeing. Are you at all curious to see what I'm seeing? Um, yeah, because I'm assured that they're dramatically different things we're seeing. Yeah. Oh, Jess.

Oh my God, I'm sorry. Can you do like 6 minutes in?

Yeah, I'm trying to find— Okay.

I guess I felt very disappointed when I turned this on and I see this very handsome man and charming man, by the way, very nice. Like, he was looking at me a lot.

A ton. And it made me like him so much.

Me too. Yeah. He was very engaged with looking at me. Me. And then, so then I'm like, ew, like, this is what he's seeing, and he's seeing gross bad hair.

So really quick, um, Rob— okay, I, I found it. It is a little messy, but this photo, before we move on— yeah, even Rob said, do you think Monica looks less good there? No, I think her hair looks great. There. I don't think that— and do you think she looks cute? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, thank you. Well, now, well, hold on. Now, now he is— this is correct. And look at my face. He— well, he paused it, and I— that was the best. Oh my God, that was the— that was the— of that section that I could find.

Okay, so this is the issue.

Yes, you look— no, no, no. Yes, the best— the clearest image of a close-up.

That's the best I look.

Yeah, Monica, I'm not—

look at it, it's crazy looking. That it's, it's not up. It like something— the ponytail fell a bit in back.

Yeah.

Okay, now real quick question. This is like looking at the hemorrhoid. Okay.

Yeah, I just fucking couldn't erase that fast enough. Yeah. Um, now I would, I would suggest that this is a very healthy side of you. It didn't cross your mind like, oh, we're interviewing, um, this guy today, he's a babe, I want to Okay, great.

Well, this is all wrapped into what I wanna talk about. Okay, great. One is I'm sure I looked in the mirror, like, yeah, it's hard to get ready with what I'm doing. Yeah, exactly. I must have looked in the mirror and thought like, oh, like fine. Yeah, fine. Maybe on the walk over my hair fell down a little bit or something. It's downhill.

Maybe you're like, boom, boom, boom, boom. Maybe. Right all out. Yeah.

But I also, I did know we were interviewing. Okay. Not good either. Let, take these down. What are we doing? Oh my God.

Oh my God. I was just back there trying to find a good image.

I've been happy the last 2 months. I haven't had to deal with it.

To look at yourself. Yeah. Well, I—

yeah. So, so I, I did know we were interviewing him, obviously, and I do know he's attractive. Yeah. Um, and so I— when I was editing this and he's there and he's looking at me and he's being so charming. And all I could think is, what is— what is wrong with me? Like, exactly what you just said. What is wrong with me that I didn't, like, get— do a little extra?

Yeah, I think that might be what's right with you. It isn't, because— well, because you didn't like the result. Yeah, but I think, like, let's say you never saw yourself. Great life for me. Yeah, but then that would be ideal. You didn't, like, overthink it. You weren't stressed about how you looked. You came and did your job, and then that was over. Had you not seen it— yeah, that would be a very healthy way to go through life.

That is generally how I go. That is how I go.

That's the, that's the dream.

But it's not, because like, okay, it wouldn't have hurt for me to just like— the problem is, let me get macro for one second.

Okay. Do you ever have this thought? I, I have this thought often, which is like You think you look so different day to day. You don't. You look like yourself, and everyone knows what you look like. And all this huge chasm between how you looked on Monday and Friday is in your head. You can't look that different. Well, no, but I experience that all the time. I'm like, good Christ. Also see comments like, whoa, he's aging, you know. It was like, sometimes I'm like, oh, it looks like I got hit by a truck. I don't know what happened between Monday and Tuesday, but clearly really— I couldn't look that different, and you can't really look that different.

Well, you don't look different to me because I see you every day. This is the first time he's ever seeing me. Yeah, so he thinks that's what I look like. Mhm.

And you're saying that is what I— well, I'm saying that you see some big difference in how you look on that day, and I do not, as I'm assuming you probably don't see a big difference in how I look day to day.

But I— but I do if I'm try— Okay, all right, I'm a single person out in the universe, and I don't actually think he's a single person. I don't know, but if he is—

that's interesting. You think he's not single?

I do think—

interesting, because of research you've done independently post-meeting him?

I did look something up. Okay, you did a little digging.

Dig, dig, dig, dig, dig.

Because how could he possibly have any You have no idea what he likes.

Let's start there. You don't even know what his aesthetic is.

Well, I know humans' eyes, and if they're looking at that girl's hair, okay, you're like, she doesn't give a fuck. Well, and then maybe that's cool. That's the only—

okay, that's the only hope, okay, is that this girl's chill as fuck.

Yeah. That's a good look. The problem is, look at Orna.

Yeah, now her hair looks rad, but she— it's not because she fashioned it that way. She's just tossing it here and there and it keeps landing in very sexy shapes. And I go, yeah, look at this wild— she's like a wild animal. She's confident.

She's like she's in the forest. Yeah, yeah. And I was also in the forest, but not in an Orna way. I love that you did some research.

I want to let them a little bit more about this? No. Yeah, come on.

No, I just looked him up.

Yeah, where do you go? What do you— Google. You went to Google and you just typed in his name? Or do you write, is single? No, I didn't write, is single. You just write his name.

Okay, so I had a friend in town and I said, oh, we just interviewed Taron Egerton. And I said, he is shockingly—

yeah, blow your groin apart.

Yeah. And I was like, it's wild. Like, you need to listen to this one or watch it. Yeah. And she was like, oh yeah, isn't he dating Alex Cooper? And I was like, wait, perfect.

No, she's definitely not having a baby.

Yeah. I was like, no, she's married. And he was like, oh yeah, no, Alex. And I said, Earl, he can't be dating her either because she's dating Tom Brady.

Oh wow, really?

Yes. Oh, and then she was like, oh wait, no, 'No, it's this person. I'm not gonna say who it is.' Okay. And I was— then I looked that person up, and I was like, 'Oh, she Indian?' No.

Okay. Is she not even close?

She's a honky? I wouldn't say that. A cracker? She's not Lebanese. Okay.

All right, I can feel you.

So, um, anywho. Okay. So I was like, 'Whoa, okay, yeah.' So he's understandably in a relationship. And that made me feel better because I was like, well, then I wasn't available anyway. Like, I mean, he wasn't available anyway, so not putting my best foot forward is actually fine.

It was very respectful of his new relationship.

But I did think, like, why am I so opposed opposed to like getting ready. And even today I was like, okay, we're back, like I should like do my hair. Then I thought, ugh, this is just too much. Like it's too much effort.

Well, look, it could be one of two things. One is you have a very healthy relationship with it all, which is like, I look how I look, let's go. That would be great. That's— yeah. But if it's, if it's, if it's vestigial shit from you not putting yourself out out there. I know, like, it would be some kind of declaration that you're trying, right? Like, and then that's the old stuff.

That's like, is it a self-protective mechanism? I don't know. I wonder. I wonder too. Let's wonder. This is the first time I've wondered. You know what's so funny? I'm definitely more likely to get like ready for a female guest that I think is fashionable. Yeah, definitely.

Yes, yes. So it goes to kind of— which one does it prove that point? I'm always making that, like, we're all doing it for our job. Yeah, exactly.

I also, I have to— I mean, I knew that, um, he was hot, but I did not know the level.

I can't know. No, you got to be in person.

Did not know until in person and seeing his, like, twinkly eyes.

Yeah, even just the way he moves and thinks about things, the way he repositions. So smart. Yeah, very, very very smart and, and thoughtful.

We're in love. Talking about his child, I mean, yeah, how about his vulnerability?

I mean, come on. I know, I know, it was— and he's not very masculine. You must have been fucking flooding the basement. Okay, I don't like that.

That's something you're putting out there. He is masking— he is masculine.

No, but the fact that he was saying, and I'm quoting, he said, when it gets into the tropey masculine things, I just don't have them. And for you, that would be like, ooh, to me that is masculine.

That's very confident.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anyway, obviously I ruined that. Well, I, I don't know.

Hold on, I don't know. But we'll be back. I text him this morning. You did? I did.

And I said, I just want to send him a—

because I watched the episode on the plane, uh-huh, as I said. And I just said, hey man, I'm really grateful that you rescheduled. I think it's such a great episode.

Yeah. Also, by the way, that was something that was incredibly kind. He had— he was like, long out.

Yeah, yeah, that was just like, let me make good on this.

It was. Yeah, he has integrity.

Oh, I know, he's so hot.

What are we gonna do about my hair? Let's do some facts.

Okay, because we have so much more. Okay.

Oh, this is a fact because it, it's— well, it's a ding ding ding fact. Um, we talk about feeding animals in this episode with Sedaris. Yeah, because he loves to feed animals.

Yeah, I brought it up like 10 times in this 2-month vacation. I found myself telling lots of people that he feeds— well, because we have so many deer in our yard and other animals. And, um, yeah, I just found myself going, oh, one of my favorite things about Sedaris is he's like, yeah, I feed animals. I know everyone says you're not supposed to, but I don't care, I want to feed them.

And I love that about him. He needs to be careful because Guess what? What? There's a coyote in Atwater. His name's Wiley. Perfect. Yep. And he chases everyone. He's chasing people and kids, and it's because someone's feeding him. So don't do that. Okay. Okay. All right, keep doing it. And no, and it's also a ding ding ding for you guys acting like these coyotes aren't scared of little girls like me. Uh-huh. Okay, Wiley is not scared.

No, but he might be months away from moving into someone's house and fully domesticated. Get that rabies vax on him.

Um, okay, what are board shorts? Board shorts are long, quick-drying swim shorts built for surfing and board sports. They feature a flat, non-elastic fixed waistband with the lace-up tie, no inner mesh lining, and a strong 4-way stretch fabric to prevent rash and stay secure in heavy Heavy Waves. No mesh. Yeah, no mesh is interesting. Well, I guess they're differentiating that from the swim trunk.

Yeah, I grew up on board shorts, and when I switched to a shorter swim short with a mesh— yeah, a liner— I've grown to love that, and I really can't imagine now going back to a board short with no liner.

Yeah, why do they do that?

I don't know.

Okay. You know, sometimes these answers just lead to more questions. That's right. Okay. The turtle, snapper turtle story is in Calypso. Oh, the doctor said to him that he couldn't give the patients anything they've cut out of the body. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay.

Now, is that a law or that was just his personal—

Exactly. So I looked that up. A doctor or hospital often refuses to give a patient or remove body parts due to, due to a standard biohazard disposal policy. They need for pathology testing and liability concerns. Though patients legally own their tissue in many places and can sometimes request it back. So it says, in most regions such as the US, no federal law bans keeping your own surgically removed body parts, though a few states have specific restrictions. Okay. Okay, so it says patients routinely sign consent ceding tissue rights to the hospital for research or disposal. Okay, you can refuse to sign those specific release waivers and formally request the tissue, though you may need to jump through administrative hurdles or sign liability releases.

Yeah, I mean, I wish— I guess I don't know why— I guess I wish I had my wisdom teeth. Uh, really? I had a Um, dude had pulled out of my lip. As you recall, Ryan had the same one. He did let me take a picture of him holding it with tweezers, which is great because it looked identical to a maraschino cherry, right? So did Ryan's, right? And that's, that's as close as I've gotten.

Yeah, but you wouldn't want your hemorrhoid—

I don't ever want to see anything associated with that again. Yeah, yeah. Um, I actually don't understand band? I did a lot of research on hemorrhoids while I had one, and, um, it did talk about— and again, I don't know if this is medically sound, there's just something I came across about certain times that put a rubber band around it the way they castrate cows and dogs. Oh, and then it just falls off.

No. Did you try it?

No, but it crossed my mind. Like, I gotta get some braces rubber bands.

Oh, those teeny ones? Oh, ow!

Oh Oh my God, you've been doing that yourself there, laying on your back in bed trying to fucking do a ponytail holder around your hemorrhoid. Imagine.

I mean, it doesn't even make sense. It just—

but yes, I would have tried it. It's off. If it went on long enough, I probably would have tried it.

Yeah, it can't fall off, then you just have a huge open wound.

Well, no, because when you put the rubber band around it, like when they castrate cows and stuff, it just— from where the circulation stopped, if this seals itself off and closes it. For real, that part's real. Okay, okay. I'm not recommending that anyone do it, but that is what happens.

Okay, okay, okay. Um, you said squirrels are always on smartest animal lists, which was an exaggeration.

It was on two of our lists that we read back in the day. Okay, yeah, with Dolphin Sentient Org or whatever.

Yeah, well, I'm back on sentientmedia.org. Okay. Um, 30 most intelligent animals in The world might surprise you. Okay, now we got— I'm going fast. Okay. Yeah.

Um, in first to 30 or 30. Okay.

Humans. Yeah. Interesting. Dolphins, ravens, pigs, chimpanzees, elephants.

Again, all right. I mean, I'm reminded how much I disagree with the pig and chimpanzee.

Pigs are—

yeah, fucking chimps can do— I mean, gorillas can do sign What are we talking about? Pig? No. All right, anyways, go. Okay.

African gray parrots, octopuses, bonobos, rats, pigeons, crows. Pigeons. Listen. Oh, you— now you're making me read. Frequently regarded as the rats of the sky, pigeons are often thought of as a nuisance. The reality, however, is that pigeons are extremely intelligent. In an experiment, pigeons were trained to differentiate between Picasso and Monet paintings, something something they had no problem learning. That is wild. They were then able to apply what they learned to distinguish between works they had not previously been shown, telling the difference between the Expressionists and Cubist artists. That's wild. That's cool. Dogs, number 13. Cats, horses, squirrels, number 16. Ding ding ding. Says they display their intelligence through deception. When they think they're being watched, they'll pretend to bury nuts and seeds while hiding the actual food under their arms. Oh cool. Oh, Yeah, bees, ants, orcas, wolves, deer, llamas, koalas, orangutans, gorillas, hyenas. I fucked you up for life on orangutan.

You're like, what am I gonna do? Am I gonna do that? Yeah, you did.

You did mess me up. 27: raccoons, honey badgers, giraffes, Portia spiders.

Whoa, I didn't know there were any smart insects.

Yeah. It says they have to do serious problem solving. They need to plan ahead and recall information based on the best escape and trap routes. Okay, well, anyhoo, squirrels was on there, so you're right. What is Sedaris holding at the top of the Empire State Building in that story? He says, I'm pretty sure I could tumble down all the stairs in the Empire State Building naked with a greased-up rolling pin or pepper grinder in each hand and a box of candles around my neck and still end up in the lobby with an empty rectum. With an empty rectum. So good. Listen to him last night. That's it.

That's that. Yeah. Oh, I love him. I love him so much. Great episode.

We're so lucky. We are so lucky that we get to have him come through this attic almost every time he's in LA.

Oh man. And I can't wait for him to come back in September. Remember, I committed to being his helper. That's right. Yeah. I can't wait. Great. So get tickets to that show if you want me to show you to your seat. Okay.

I love you.

I love you.