Transcript of Alicia Silverstone

Wndri Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now. Join WNDRI Plus in the WNDRI app or on Apple podcast, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcast. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Sheppard. I'm joined by Monica Padman.

Hi. Hi.

Today we have Alicia Silverstone.

And we're looking at, I think, 30-year anniversary of Clueless, which is so exciting. A movie that changed my life.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I was... So 30 years ago, that's '95, I got to California '95. And that just seemed like another galaxy, her and that movie. The notion that I got to sit and chat with her would have been unimaginable.

And there were so many iconic LA things in that movie that when you moved here, weren't you like, Oh, the valley, this. Like, everywhere in LA takes 15 minutes. That's It's true. Classic.

Classic and true. Classic. 15 or 20. I forget. Okay. The Crush, Pretty Thing, Batman and Robin, Blast From The Past. She has a news series out now on Acorn TV called Irish Blood. Which you loved. I loved. This was incredibly fun. So please enjoy Alicia Silverstone.

Hello, I'm John Robbins, comedian and host of WNDY's How Do You Cope podcast. I'm also, Plot Twist, an alcoholic. I've written a book, Thirst, Thirst: Twelve Drinks That Change My Life, published by Penguin. Thirst is a book about alcohol. It's mystery, it's terror, it's havoc, it's strange meditations. But, John, I hear you cry. Isn't that a rather odd book to write for a sober man who, more than anything, wants to stop thinking about alcohol? Well, yes, but I had to go back to find out why the one thing I know will kill me still calls out across the night. It's the story of what alcohol did for me and what alcohol did to me. If that's of interest to you or someone you Thirst, 12 Drinks That Change My Life is available to pre order now online and from all good bookshops. I'm John Robbins, and on my podcast, I sit down with incredible people to ask the very simple question, How do you cope? From confronting grief and mental health struggles to finding strength in failure. Every episode is a raw and honest exploration of what it means to be human. It's not always easy, but it's always real.

Whether you're looking For inspiration, comfort, or just a reminder that you're not alone in life's messier moments, join me on How Do You Cope. Follow now wherever you get your podcasts or listen to episodes early and ad free on WNDRI Plus. How Do You Cope is brought to you by Audible, who make it easy to embark on a wellness journey that fits your life with thousands of audiobooks, guided meditations, and motivational series.

I don't think we've met in the world. Do you have a specific memory?

Oh, save it for the pod. It's always fun though.

It is fun. You always find out if you're nice or mean.

Oh, you have the movie bag.

I do.

How fun. Wait, what movie bag?

Begonia. Oh, oh, oh.

Says it on there. No. They gave out fun bags?

They gave out a fun bag.

As a wrap present? Yeah. Oh, my God.

I'm surprised they didn't get you a Patagonia something because it sounds so similar.

They could have done a little play on words.

I think it's supposed to be a gardening bag, right? Sure. Is that what that feels like?

You're a known gardener. If they got that specifically for you.

I'm not sure. I think everyone got it, but who knows?

That's not a joke. She's a known gardener.

I didn't know that. That's exciting. She is. I want to become a known gardener.

I've read a lot of interviews with you today, and most of them mention your gardening.

Yeah. Really still?

They really do.

Okay, where do you claim that we met?

I feel we met... Now, maybe I've got it wrong.

At the Garden State Premiere?

No.

That's a Zack Braff joke because so many people confuse us.

Oh, I'm not confused by YouTube at all. But there was a private dinner, I want to say, with Jona Hill on La Cienaga. If you go off where that Sally Hirschbergers, there was a restaurant. And I feel like James Franco was there. No, not James Franco, sorry. Orlando Bloom. I feel like you were there that night. I may have made that up. It wouldn't have been a very meaningful moment.

I really feel like I'd remember, of course. But regardless- It doesn't matter. When you paint that picture, it sounds very plausible, right? Yeah, it does. Like all the ingredients are there. Donna Hill. Sure. I've been to some dinners with him, but I'm not remembering that exact one. I didn't make a scene. You don't remember that much.

No, I think you said something nice to me, and that was it. Okay. But that could have been Orlando Bloom, and I just confused the situation.

If you confused me for Orlando Bloom, that's a compliment.

He's very good-looking. Yeah, he's very handsome.

I was just with Rob Lowe on his podcast, and he said his memory of our hanging out last was very different than my memory of our hanging out last. Oh, tell me. He remembered us presenting, I think, at the Emmies, which I have no memory of. I remembered us spending a day together. We were both on a show at the same time. I was on Mismatch, and he was on whatever show he was doing at the time, 20 years ago. I think we were on MBC, I think. And And the two of us both were stars of their shows that were coming out. So they had us pair to do a lot of things together.

Right. And neither of you know anything about each other's show?

No. And so he didn't even remember that day. And I don't remember presenting at the Emmies with him, but we believe each other. I see my magazine covers, and I don't remember being there. I know they happened because I see it. The picture looks familiar, but I don't remember being there at all.

It's so interesting. I mean, memory is weird for everyone, but I do think these environments it's heightened that issue where it's like, where am I? Also, they're all heightened experiences, like a photoshoot and stuff. Everyone's staring at... Maybe your brain just wants to get rid of that.

That's another aspect. I think in a lot of these situations, you do disassociate you. In a photo shoot, for instance, I hate getting my photo taken. So when you have those four-hour photo shoots, I'm just off in some chamber of my mind.

Lucky you, a four-hour photo shoot for a boy. Yeah, that's light, isn't it?

Also, I'm so hard to deal with. We're not going to get a good Just send him on his way. I didn't even think he can hear us. I don't even know if he's here.

He's mad at everyone.

I had one of those yesterday where my manager sent me a video of him at a concert with a woman, and he was saying, Listen, remember this? And it was Rob Thomas' concert, and he was with his wife. Yes. And I had forgotten that I was in a Rob Thomas video. You were in a Rob Thomas video? Oh, yeah. Completely forgot. It was a nice memory. I was like, Oh, yeah. And then I showed it to my son. He was like, That's you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so right out of the gates, mom and dad are both from England. They're English.

My brother and I are the first Americans in the chain.

Dee Dee is mom?

My mom is Dee Dee, but she's no longer with us. She's been gone for almost six years. But dad's still here. I'm going to see him on Friday. Almost 92. Oh, wow.

How old was mom?

She's eight years younger than him, and she passed six years.

So 84? No, she does six years ago. She would be. She did six years ago, 78. That's bad.

Yeah, it's bad.

We don't like that.

Did they meet here or did they meet in England?

They did. My mom was a flight attendant for Pan Am.

Oh, my gosh. This is so meet cute. Also, that was very elegant.

She was the most elegant. I thought she was beautiful when she was 78, and she was beautiful when she was my age. She was just really different than all the other parents because she wore all Laura Ashley. I don't know if it was Laura Ashley, but that thing. She doesn't even know what that is anymore. It's like that really girly floral. When I was younger, it was upsetting. She'd say, Why are all your clothes was black. So whenever I'd see her, I would try to wear colorful clothes so she could feel good about it.

Yeah. You had a green shirt. Oh, yeah. I only wear a green shirt. That you wore for four years straight.

Oh, wow. Because were you trying to be the opposite of her?

I wasn't at all. I was born in 1976, and that's when we had a revival of female liberation, right? Yeah. That movement. And I think it was in the air because my mom couldn't be that way. But people around her were.

And you were in San Francisco?

Yeah. And I did a show called American Woman a Long Time because I played Paris Hilton's Grandmother mother, which was Kyle Richard's mother. In this show, I felt like my mom. They would go to elocution classes, and she wanted to be an actress, the character that I was playing. All that's to say that my mom, she was elegant. Elegant lady. She was elegant lady.

And there was a real pizazz. If you were on Pan Am as a stewardess, we called them stewardess. That's what we call them then.

Stewardesses.

Now it's five. Stewardesses. But they met in England.

So they met in the States. They were on an opposite date. My dad was on a date with her her friend. Okay. And she was on a date. And then they switched, apparently, by the end of the evening.

Oh, my gosh. Was it a double date? A double date. Okay. It was a double date. They're paired. They turned into a double dare. Wow. Double dog dare.

They turned into a double dog dare, and then a reverse back by the end of the night.

And that was in Florida.

What were they all doing in Florida?

He wanted to move to the States for the sunshine, for the better life. And they were in the war, World War II. And so my dad was dodging bombs in the underground. As a young boy, that can't be fun. And then he moved to Florida, and he opened up a sandwich shop in Carl Gable, opened a place called Monty's. He had already done this with the restaurant business with his dad before. They were sandwich, dinery places. My mom was a flight attendant for Pan Am, and I guess she got stationed in Florida as her base. For some reason, I guess she chose that. She wanted to get away.

All the English love the sunshine.

Yes, they do. I mean, my dad looks really dark.

Okay, like Ricardo Monteban or something.

He's a Sun. Sun worshiper. Always. He's a sun guy. Our skin types don't make any sense because I'm very white. Is he very white? No, he's dark. No, he's dark. It's not his genuine color. I've never seen his genuine color. I don't think there will ever be a genuine color.

Where his tidy whities would be is probably quite white, is my guess.

I know. And I don't want to see that.

You don't need to think about that. But he wasn't sunbathing nude, I don't think. We don't know. Probably.

He always had a speedo, always.

So what took him to San Francisco?

Because he wanted to get into real estate. And that was my mom's idea, and that ended up being very good for him. They were in San Francisco. Then when my brother and I came along, we were in San Bruno, then San Carlos. This is all in the Bay Area. And then Hillsborough.

I'm presuming you're moving up the socioeconomic ladder each of those moves because Hillsborough is nice, right?

Hillsborough is like Beverly Hills. But we were a little hillbilly-ish in our keeping up with the Joneses. We had a nice house. My dad had a nice car, but we were all counting pennies. Not that it was bad.

He took on all they could Yeah, we went to Siszler for dinners.

I love Sisler. And Benihana was the big once a year activity. Oh, yeah. So when I was 16 and my agent took me to a restaurant that wasn't Sisler or Benihana, I was like, What is this?

I couldn't believe.

You thought the options were either all the food was out in a salad bar or it got made at your table.

Yeah, that was the only option.

The third option that they were going to make it backstage and then bring it out.

Did you feel like you didn't belong in that fancy environment? Did you feel like, oh, we're pretending?

We didn't care about that stuff. My mom would so anti-materialism. She was an environmentalist without knowing it. She wasn't trying to protect the Earth. She just was absolutely anti-waste. Because of the war, she said, Remember the war all the time. Oh, wow. Because she also went through the war. There's just a different awareness of being responsible and thoughtful about your money, about your resources, which I wish everyone had. And so she had it naturally. She would save everything. I just saw that the other friends were a lot more indulging, and some had a lot more, but it wasn't really a thing.

America is a really unique place where you can be rich and then feel super poor. Right.

Exactly.

There's so many people that lived in a really nice neighborhood, but they could barely be there or they couldn't be there. It was so stressful, and everyone else seemed to be flying to Aspen on planes.

There's so much comparison here, too. So that's part of it.

Yeah. Just these huge gaps that can exist.

My dad was doing well. He just was really thoughtful They were frugal. They were frugal. And my dad had come from very little, so you're responsible. You know what it is on the other side, and you know how hard it took you to get there.

Whose idea was it for you to start modeling at six?

Eight. Eight? Okay. There was a woman named Pat Forrest I like her already.

It's a solid '80s name. Yeah, it is. If you get lost, you forget your keys at school, just go to Pat's house, and she'll look after you for five.

So Pat Forest lived up the street in San Carlos. We walked to school. It was just two houses down. And Pat Forest just saw me doing dancing. You know how kids put on shows? I'm sure you put on shows. We all put on shows. Do boys put on shows to their parents?

Yeah, but it's more like, watch me jump this thing in the driveway. I set up a ramp.

Okay, that's the show.

The show is generally vehicular in design.

So the girls' shows are dancing or singing, right? Yeah. Well, we would do dancing shows, and it was ridiculous, the costumes that we would put on. One time, Pat Forrest was suffering one of these shows, and she said to my dad, She's going to be a star. Okay. And now, whether or not she had a premonition or she was just being very kind.

It sounds like a standard thing to say to a parent.

I think it is, but it ended up being somewhat true in her defense. I think something made them decide that I should go into acting. I think we got the modeling thing as a way in. Yes. But in my mind, I thought I was an actress, even though I was eight. The modeling thing was not for me. I didn't like it.

But you got a Domino's commercial really early, right?

That was once I started acting.

Yes. How old were you when you got the Domino's? And before we even explore Domino's, you should know Monica and I still swear by it. We love Domino's. We love Domino's. There is a place for Domino's. No, not for me. I could have guessed that, but I'm just wanting you to know how we love it, how we feel so, yes, heartwarmed by it.

You feel really passionately. Now, why? Is it the nostalgia Or do you really think they make a pizza?

They make a beautiful pizza and nostalgia.

The square, the square, thin, crust.

The thin and crispy, extra sauce.

It's so good.

Maybe I should try the vegan one. You should try. You should do a good job.

They have gluten free now, which I get down with.

I can eat a whole one of those.

I did it, by the way. Remember I just said I gained 14 pounds in the last three days in Nashville? It was from one domino. It was from a series of days. One of them was a domino's order. Really? Fuck everything. I'm going hard.

Sometimes, yeah, this happened to me recently, too, where I got home from a party and I was like, there's only one thing for me to do tonight, and it is order domino. I have to have this. It's so funny. It was so good.

They're not even a sponsor.

No, they are. They are.

Oh, they are. It would make sense. They sound It was like a full-blown advertisement.

No, we've been talking like this for years.

That's why they are basically like, they love us.

We genuinely love the product. Okay, so how old were you when you got the Domino's commercial?

I was 14. So it was a big jump. My dad, he took me to the theater all the time. So I loved the theater, and I never had any intention of being in movies or TV. I didn't know anything about that. Just loved the theater. Did some stuff at school, and then he got me into an acting class with this woman, Judy O'Neill, who would come to San Francisco with a group of kids. And I was a young kid, and they were 17-year-olds and 16-year-old. It was intimidating. It was 18. It was so exciting. Oh, my God. So juicy and therapeutic. Everyone was crying about stuff and didn't like their parents. It was juicy. It was like, Oh, they're mining. This feels like my people or something. This is more interesting and deep and crazy. I want to be a part of this. I just was enjoying this classes. I was terrible. Because there was a boy in my class who I had a huge crush on.

How old was he?

So, Jona Blackman. Shout out, Jona. He danced with Baryshnikov. He was in a Got Milk commercial.

He was a star. Yes, and did he have an incredible physique from all that dancing? I imagine he did.

Probably, but he was very much not playing on my team. Okay, sure. I thought, but Jona has said that he has been with women since, so not fully, but mostly likes men. But at the time, I thought we were in love. Do you know that song, It Must Have Been Love? Yeah. Do you remember that song? Must Have Been Love. That was our song.

But it's over now.

Oh, why? So Must Have In Love was our song, and I was pining for him when I in England in a camp, just dying for Jona. But Jona and I were best friends, and I would tell everyone he is not gay. And then one day, it turned out that he was.

Did you feel betrayed? I did for five seconds.

Because to me, he had been friends for so long, and I just thought, I've been fighting people on this for four years now. And he was like, Listen, it's not my fault. I didn't know. I was like, That's fair.

But now you look like a chump.

I look like a chump. You're right. He checks your ass, can't catch.

Exactly. But we also did kiss. I remember that we liked each other a lot. And there's a lot of Jonas Blackman stories. But anyway.

But you were obsessed with him.

I was obsessed with him, so I couldn't pay attention in my class. I just, I would giggle and distract it.

This is very cher. I know how to go there this early, but wow.

And then one day I got it together and I just got good. And then I went to LA because they invited me to come to LA with this Judy O'Neill group, and I lived on a futon in a room with other children. Oh, really? Very interesting.

The whole experience.

There's somebody else.

Eric Dane.

Eric Eric Dane. I knew it. Good job.

Me and Eric Dane.

Yes, we had Eric on the show, and I'm remembering that he was on the futon of somebody's, and you had come up as well.

And he was there, and he and I were together.

Yes.

As romantic lovers.

Let's I don't think that- I don't think that- You said we were together.

No, no, no. I was in trouble.

Oh, you were in the same space. No, we were in the same group together in the same class.

But you weren't romantic?

No, definitely not. I had to think. He was a lot older than me. I mean, not that much older than me, but at the time, No, I think I was more interested in Brandon. Oh, okay. Anyway. Was he also- No, he's not.

Okay. Did you like any straight boys at any point?

Yeah, I did eventually. Kind of, I guess. You came around Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? Who knows?

Yeah, so you'd gotten the Domino's commercial at 14. You moved to LA at 17 and live on the Fouton?

It's complicated business. I moved to LA when I was 14 because I'd gone to do this acting camp for the summer at Judy O'Neill's house, where Eric was. We did a showcase and things started happening, and I didn't understand what was happening. Then when it was time to go back to school, I went back to school in San Francisco at my school, San Mateo High School, sophomore year, and I found myself having to fly back and forth for these auditions.

Did you know Marshall Tuck by chance?

Yes. Why do you know Marshall Tuck?

Nate Tuck is my best friend in LA, his older brother. You know Marshall?

Yeah, I remember Marshall. I think he was a senior when I was a freshman. Does that check?

Yeah, I think he and I are the same age.

Because he was in San Francisco.

He went to San Mateo, and I think Nate lived in Hillsborough.

Was not very close with Marshall. No, I mean, because he was a senior. I remember being invited to parties that Marshall was at with Chad Sparks. Does that say Jay Marks?

These are very- Jay Are they called? California names. Chad, Marsh. They are Chad.

Mekdi. These were the boys. Shredder, Bino.

Wow.

Great name recall.

Yeah, thanks. Yeah, really nice. They were all the cute seniors. Yeah, they're memorable. Okay, so 14 So I'm going back and forth and back and forth. It's getting ridiculous. So then we decide to take me and just live for my sophomore year, second semester in Los Angeles.

And who's we? Me and mom or the whole gang?

My dad and mom and I. My brother was older, so he was already in college. And so they were like, let's go there. And I got off the futon. Actually, Jona came and lived with us because I'm remembering he made out with a girl in my bed. Oh, wow. So I think Yeah. I know, but we were already- Very confusing. We were already past the whole thing was fine. I'm going to Beverly Hills High now for my second semester of school, and I'm doing the commercial. I did a pilot. I probably did the Wonder Years at this point, and I'm just 15. And then I audition for this so exciting program at Beverly Hills High, which is the Dance Group. They had a company. I think it was called the Company. I wanted to be in this dance company so bad. I got in, but not in the top 10. There's an alternates where you get to dance them, but you're not in. You're just like, if somebody hurts themselves, I guess. Sure, of course.

That's an understudy.

But I was so excited, and I got into the drama department, which I was so excited about. This is for the next year. So junior year, I'm coming back and I'm going to be in these groups. But during that summer is when I got the crush. All those plans got destroyed, but other good things happened.

Now, really quick, how was the transplant from San Mateo to Beverly Hills High? You already said you weren't into fashion. You wore the same Gap T-shirt with a pocket on it for four years straight. It's true. Did you feel out of sorts?

Totally. Obviously, the film Clueless is an exaggeration of the people that were there. But some elements are pretty accurate. Like all the girls did have nose jobs, which is so disturbing at that age.

Back then, at that age? Wow. A lot of them did.

And they drove BMWs. And they did. Yeah, like Beverly Hills 90210.

They did. They drove the BMWs. Amy did some research. Yeah. But I went to that school and I still wear my sweat pants. I still wasn't into any fashion. I still was doing my green T-shirt.

Did you make friends?

I did. We were living in an apartment building that is on the very cusp to count as Beverly Hills. Sure, sure.

Like on Robertson or something.

Right off of La Cienica, where meets Wilshire. Right there is La Pierre or something. And that street is a little apartment building we lived in. Whereas these girls lived in massive mansions in Beverly Hills.

They were going to Aspen at Christmas on a jet. I think so. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so when you look back, you must have this feeling all the time. I have it so often, which is like, I'm watching the Brittany Spears documentary, and I'm I'm remembering how paparazzi followed her. And I'm watching them on the late night talk shows, people calling her a slut.

On talk shows?

Oh, my God. You're calling Monica Lewinsky, a fat slut, really going hard When I watch these docs, I'm like, oh, wow, I lived through that and it didn't seem crazy at the time, and now it seems insane, right? So similarly, I look at the crush. I'm like, look at the premise of this fucking movie. You're 14.

15.

I think you're 14. Oh, the character. The character.

Yes. Okay. I thought that. As written. Yeah, no, she's 14.

She gets a huge crush on a 28-year-old and tries to seduce him. I mean, this is bonkers.

It's like American Beauty a little bit. I know. And there were so many of these.

It was Lolita. Yeah. Fatal Attraction and Lolita mixed together. Right. But you're saying now this would not be acceptable.

Well, just you look at it and you go like, this is such a bizarre.

I mean, they might still make a movie, but probably the takeaways would be much different. I don't know what the takeaways were.

It's still such a male fantasy that there's some 14-year-old crawling around America. That's so horny. She's trying to fuck a 28-year-old dude and seduce him. I mean, that's madness. That's not really happening. But again, I was that age going like, yeah, this makes sense.

It might be happening if that person probably has trauma, but most likely the man is preying on that 14-year-old.

I mean, look, here's a really dicey one. You won't be saying anything. Don't worry, this will all fall on my shoulders. But it's like, I'll read a story about someone who got some pictures surfaced, and they were in blackface in '85. And I'm like, That's terrible. Also, there was a movie out called Soul Man that we all went and saw in '87. It was a white guy playing in blackface to get a scholarship.

Things have really changed.

You at least have to acknowledge the context, which is very important. There was a movie in 3,000 theaters of someone in Blackface.

Yeah. But in our culture, nobody wants context. They want click page. They want revision.

I mean, it's wrong. Don't get me wrong. They want to catch people. Don't get me wrong. I'm very clearly not in the Blackface. But if it's in the cineplex and you go on that Halloween, you're not at least thinking you're stepping outside of what the mores are.

Exactly.

Probably most of what we all did was not acceptable. Yeah, probably did. All the time.

That's also the thing, the people pointing their fingers. It's like, well, maybe look back at your own past. I'm sure there's something there to dig up. No one was perfect.

It's so hard to be perfect. It is.

It's impossible. But now that we're out of the water, I do look at it and go, oh, this is bonkers. There was a hundred movies with like, teenage girls in love with older dudes that I watched.

That men wrote.

Yeah, that men wrote. Even the desire of someone that young is, You have some insecurities, clearly. I'm sorry, I'm going to go out of a limb and say it. You are very insecure as a 28-year-old dude if what you think you will be matched with is a 14-year-old.

Unless, I mean, I don't know, maybe they've experienced it. I don't know all these people, so maybe one or two of them. I don't want to just say across the board, they're all bad.

The writer of this claims that this happened. Okay. Yeah, maybe it did. The writer claims that this is a story out of his real life. Okay, so- Story out of his real life.

Look, there's all kinds of people.

Okay, Anyways, that movie was a big, big deal for you. It was. You were immediately newcomer MTV Movies Awards.

Mtv Movies Awards. Oh, wow. He was the best villain. I was very proud of that.

That's a problem to me, that the 14-year She was very badly behaved.

She really stalks him. Oh, really? But he shouldn't have kissed her. She's a kid, though. She's a kid. There are so many problems. Yeah.

She's not the villain.

But she is. She's really badly behaved. She She almost kills someone. She does need to go to a mental hospital. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But sure, it's all problematic, probably.

Yeah. No, she's just sick. She's mentally ill.

She's trying to seduce him. She's taking off clothes. He's not pursuing her. Right.

But he does- He accidentally, for one second, kiss her back, which was a big mistake.

Big mistake. Can't do it.

Can't do it.

Because then she thought they were getting married. Yes.

She had already demonstrated that she had a little tenuous grasp on reality He kissed her back.

She was bad. She hurt her friend. She made her friend fall off of his horse. She's no good. She's definitely not normal. She's not good. She had some issues.

She had some mental issues. I will be watching this tonight. This was great.

It's a good one.

Yeah. I really remember, of course, the Smith video. Were those cast out of LA?

Well, Marty Colner, the director who remained my dear friend all the way up until he just passed. Okay. I love that man so much. Talk about mixing up things. He was a 45-year-old man hanging out with a 15-year-old girl. Maybe I was 16. We would drive everywhere together. We hang out all the time. I'm sure it looked freaking weird. He was just totally clean. He thought I was his daughter and he wanted to protect me. I didn't know any of that. I just thought he was my friend. But as I got older, I started to realize, oh, he's been a solid, healthy figure in my life. Anyway, he's adorable. So he had seen the crush with, I think, John Kaladner, who was a big guy at Geffen Records, and said, Will you be in this video? And I didn't know who Aerosmith was at the time because I was 16 years old. My kid doesn't know who Madonna or Elvis is.

This string of videos you do is actually the rebirth of Aerosmith. So people don't know Aerosmith was enormous in the '70s. They went away. Major. Run DMC brought them back for a minute with Walk This Way. Then they were out of it. But that recharged. And then now this crop of music is when they come back on the scene hard. Liv was in one of those three videos.

She was in the third one. So I did crying with Steven Dorff. I you jump off of the bridge and flip them off. That was the one that won best video of all time. Oh, my God. It has to be crystal clear.

Yes, it deserve to.

What a great accolade. It beat Thriller. Best video of all time. Isn't that crazy?

I've got beef with that just because Thriller exist.

You can totally have beef with that. It doesn't make sense.

But it's a great fucking video. I don't know how they'd pick. I'm going to call for a vote.

You should do a reva. I'm going to get a quorum. But I will say that you can totally do that. I think that what made it different was for the first time a woman was in a video in control powerful and not just taking her clothes off. Yeah, on the hood of a car. All the videos were like that. Every video was a girl totally naked.

Did you and Liv have a little... Did you guys- We did some stuff. Did you guys kiss maybe in that video? Did I just infer that maybe?

When Marty and I talked about doing this third video and Liv wanted to be in it, he was talking about doing a strip thing, and I said, I'll be the guy. I don't want to strip. I had the idea that I'll just be a dude watching her. Like viewing. And that that will be hot in itself. Yes. So that's how that part got born. But yes, the whole video is us romping around and pretending that we're making out. Very exciting.

Very exciting stuff. This is what a rock star dad. This is the difference. My dad would not be cool with me being young in his video. Being sexual.

Strip.

Being sexual. But that's like, growing up with a rock star dad.

She had just recently found out that was her dad. It was pretty recent.

Oh, I didn't know that.

She was raised by another great musician, Todd Rungre, who her mom was married to growing up. This is all public knowledge. And then I'm now nervous. I'd be waiting in the stuff I know. But all I know is I think she found out later. Oh, wow. She had her dad with Steven Tyler. They went to a show, and they started talking about- She was like, you look just like me.

They are twins.

They are twins, and their vibe is their vibe.

That's weird. She met him and didn't know.

Pretty sure that's the story. I'll fact check it with her.

Let's fact check that. Wow.

I think they had a kismet meaning, and then the mom told her, I think.

Interesting.

They literally have the same everything.

Yes. Same exact sense of humor.

I don't know them that well, but I mean, the face, the mouth. The lips. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love in the video when he's doing his... And then his kick of the leg, she mimics that, and it's perfect. It's back and forth.

I did a movie with her, and that's when we became friends. And then somehow she said to me, she was at her dad's, and she said, I'm doing this with this guy who's this guy? And he's like, he wasn't Without a paddle. That's my favorite movie. And gave me his stationary that is a silhouette of him doing that.

Oh, no way.

Yeah. And he wrote like, without a paddle, greatest movie of all time on this cool stationery. And I framed it. It was one of the many things Kristen was like, Jesus Christ. When she came into the house, it was like, there's so many pictures of yourself around. That's a cute one to have though. That was one of the things that was up.

That mouth is incredible. Oh, it is. Every time I see a clip, somebody just showed me a clip of it.

115 teeth. You can see the molars when he smiles.

It's incredible.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, If You Dare.

The town of Agde in France is famous for sun, sand, sea, and sex. But lately, life on the Coast has taken a strange turn. The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption. His His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant. Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.

I am the Archangel Michael.

The whole town has been thrown into chaos.

Monsieur le Maire, As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all.

Legal proceedings have been initiated.

Join me, Anna Richardson, and journalist Leo Schick for The Mystic and the Mayor, as we investigate a story of power, corruption, and magic. Binge all episodes of The Mystic and the Mayor exclusively and ad-free right now on WNDYRI Plus. Start your free trial in Apple podcast, Spotify, or the WNDYRI app.

Okay, so I think you're 18 when you shoot Clueless?

I turn 18 on set.

Now, again, I know this is common knowledge, but it wasn't to me. What's interesting about Clueless, of course, I saw it. I loved it.

It's the It was the first movie I remember being so obsessed with, have to watch over and over again. All our friends watched it and were being the characters. It was the first real zeitgeisty movie I was a part of. Yeah.

Were your friends assigning like, You're so and so, not Yeah.

Yes. You're Deon. Who are you?

Were you Cher?

No, they wouldn't let me be Cher because I wasn't white. Again, this is the times. Maybe now I could be Cher.

You are Kim Kardashian. Kim Kardashian was just Cher. Exactly.

I was probably put in the Dion, who I love. Great character.

That's great character. You can't really go wrong. No.

But yeah, it was the first movie that, while I was alive, hit the zeitgeist.

Would you put me in the Paul Rudd one or the best friend?

Wait, the Paul Rudd character or the gay guy? Yeah.

That's not a- I don't know if we say that now.

But yeah. Christian. Christian. You're neither. You might be more of the other guy who ends up being a douchebag, but that's not- But that's okay.

Oh, Justin. Oh, Jeremy Sistos part. Yes. We're going to give you that part. Okay.

Physically, I get it.

I don't know you well enough, but I think just on first sniff, that is fine. Sure.

Well, there's definitely a period of my life, and perhaps that period of my life where I would have been.

Paul, I forget that it's him. So wild.

Okay. Now, what's totally known, which I don't know that I did, is you couldn't be more opposite than her, which again, when you meet somebody in a movie, you just assume that's who they are. I dealt with a different thing, which was I played mostly just dumb for the first seven years.

Wait a second. I love your show. I just remembered. Parenthood? No, I don't know that one. The one with Lake Bell. Oh, Blesses Mass. Blesses Mass. Yes. He just completely forgot until just now.

You're only the third person I've ever met that saw that. Oh, I loved it. It was a great show. Oh, wonderful.

I love Ed Bagly in it. I love all the actors in it. It's so good.

Keckner is great. Keckner is great. Monica was on it. I was. She was the fair scene. What were you?

Yeah, I played like an egg salesman or something. Competing egg salesman. It was a good show.

Okay, sorry. So you're saying that you got put in a category from what?

Oh, just I played a dumb ass. I was in idiocracy. I played dumb a bunch or white trash. And I think people, when they would meet me, they're like, Oh, you're not dumb. That would be the first thing they would say. You're taller than I thought, and you're not dumb.

Yeah. Because it was also on punk, pranking all these people. There's definitely... I do think for a lot of people like, Oh, you are not what I expected.

Right. So you have that so much. I wrote down a thing you said, which I thought was fascinating. Most of the time I didn't even know what Cher was talking about. Most of the dialog was a different language. Amy knew all the street words and had her finger on the pulse of the latest underground everything. I was the exact opposite and knew nothing. You were not stylish at all.

You weren't hip like that. No, I didn't go to Hollywood parties. I was really just into the Earth and animals and food and permaculture, a theater nerd.

Anti-materialism. Yes. Yes.

How interesting.

I mean, it's one of the biggest gaps I think I've observed in a popular character and then the actor playing it.

You experience it like it makes sense to you seeing me?

Does it make sense seeing you? You're very authentically yourself right away, and it's not share.

There you go.

That can't be said for a lot of roles.

She was so iconic.

Let me back up. This is how I want to frame this. We've had a few different male actors. I'm going to use Chris Pine as an example, where he had cystic acne growing up. He became like an overnight symbol. In trying to make peace with that and embrace this thing that is working publicly, but you feel so completely removed from. Again, that gap between what people see and think versus what you know you are, and then this sense of fraudulence or imposter syndrome, all these different weird things that arise from that. I'm wondering if that chasm between this character you got so known for and who you were felt like it was going to be problematic for the rest of the world to deal with.

I can't be responsible for what the rest of the world dealt with. But I do know that at that time, I felt like I was a serious actress. I knew what it took to be an actor. I knew the work that was required. Some people are really beautiful, and they act, and they're like, okay, but they're beautiful. Maybe because I was in a house with people like Eric and Brandon who made it clear to me, they were big brothers. They said mean things that made me go, Oh, I'll show you. You're like, maybe not Eric, But I didn't come into this going like, Oh, I want to be in movies. Right. Yeah.

I was just sex symbol. Yeah, I didn't even...

Like, what? I feel like I was just a baby.

It sounds like most of the crushes you had had at that point or with guys that were either unavailable or... Right? Have you experience a ton of attention that way prior to it? Real attention? You're obviously beautiful, so I'm sure people looked at you.

Yeah, it wasn't like that. I mean, I will say that the high school boys who we were talking about, that Marshall group.

Yes.

They did come over to me when I was in freshman year and asked me, Do you want to come to a party of ours? And I was like, I'm getting asked to a party by the seniors? And then I thought, oh, my God, that was so fun. I was very dorky and nerdy and didn't have a sense of fashion. I definitely wasn't walking around like Sheriffs. Right. We can clearly say that. She's so much a product of her environment and what I was able to latch onto, because I remember thinking that she's shallow, materialistic, things I didn't like. But what I remember loving about was her wanting to take care of her daddy. She felt like she was doing charity with Ty. She was so giving. And in her small little world of money and popularity and everything going her way, she really was very charitable. She was trying to spread the wealth. She was trying to give back a little. It was so ridiculous. It was so funny. I remember thinking, I'm not funny. And I remember at the time, my agent, who then became my manager after. But at the time, she was my agent, Caroline.

And then my husband. And then my husband, Caroline Kessler, basically. She said, What I think is funniest about you is when you get very serious. I'm like, Well, that's insulting and also amazing at the same time. But how I translated that information, because at that point, everything I did was dark. I was in Jeff Goldblum's Hideaway with Jeremy Sesto again. I had been in a movie in France with Le Nouvement, with James Gondolfini. Oh, wow. I had been doing these traumas. There was not one comedy in the eight movies that came before Clueless. Like I said, I considered myself a very serious actress.

Yeah, yeah.

I obviously could laugh about that now, but I do think when they were saying Aerosmith Chick, I was like, Aerosmith? How dare you? How dare you? Do you even know what it took? Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's just ridiculous. You know you're a kid.

Yeah, you take yourself extremely serious.

I didn't have any bad behavior around that, hopefully, well, maybe. But I just thought in my head, here I am doing... I've already forgot what we're talking about again. What is wrong?

Clueless. Clueless.

We know what's What's going on with you. We just had an expert on.

Oh, is it menopause?

Perry. We're virtually the same age.

I blame it on my schedule.

That's probably more that.

Yeah, my recall for names. I'm like, oh, it's all really happening.

You're having Perry menopause?

I am. I'm having one over the mail.

She has sympathy, Perry menopause.

Because everyone in my life claims they have- But this also happens after you have a baby.

Your brain goes out the window after a baby, and then the whole thing. Anyway, where were we?

What I was talking about was- Oh, not yet.

Yeah.

Although Obviously, the crush was big and got attention. This was something so humongous, as we now know, permanently in the culture. Right away, like I watched your first interview on The Today Show, which one of the times you were on recently, they showed it. And you were 18. And you're just quite honestly, in so many words, like, yeah, this is uncomfortable for me. I don't really know how to do this. You were expressing discomfort right out of the gates. And what I was curious about- That's so sweet. It is. I like how honest it was. But I was curious, was it a Is it discomfort with Fame or was it this tension between, I just played this thing everyone loves in America is talking about, and now I'm going to be somebody that is completely different from that?

I didn't have any care about that.

You didn't feel like, oh, that's what they want from me.

Unfortunately, I didn't care. I didn't like the attention. It's so overwhelming to be so young and being asked crazy questions and being scrutinized.

Someone ask you your bra size or something? Oh, yeah. That one's funny. These six-year-old guys are asking these teenage girls whether they have fake boobs or their bra size.

It's It's crazy. To me, that's the funny part, the bra size thing. A lot of it's not funny. I just didn't have any interest in it. I was an activist in my little heart since I was a little girl, and so I really got focused. I just went, fuck all this. Are we allowed to swear?

Oh, please.

Yes. It's encouraged. Okay, good. Rewarded financially.

Rewarded. Okay, good. I went to Peru to go down the Amazon River with Woody Harrelson in intentions to save the rainforest. Okay, wow. I went to Africa to help with floppy trunk syndrome with these elephants, made a little documentary Ted Turner's company. I got into all my socially, environmentally sound stuff.

And what was the management around you saying?

Nobody really loved that. Yeah. That was not great.

They're probably like, You got to capitalize. You have an opportunity right now. You can work with great directors. Here's what's on the buffet for you? And the buffet will get taken away at some point.

I don't know that it was as clearly articulated like that, but I do think that activism in general. I remember being on some talk show in the morning, and I never went through media training at that time. And there's no playbook for becoming famous. There's no guidance. I didn't know how to do the press part or the being in public part. So I was on one one morning, and they asked me something like, What do you think about Mary J. Blyth? Or whatever. And all I knew was that she was wearing some big fur coat. And I started describing anal electrocution of how they got that coat. That was an innocent response. Then afterwards everyone was like this.

Yeah. Yeah. No one's to hear about anal electrocution at 8: 00 AM.

Why are you talking about annual electrocution on national morning show. They want to hear about Clueless. And I was like, I need to go because everybody needs to know. At first I thought I could use the press that I didn't want to be doing to talk about these things, but then I needed to realize But none of them wanted to hear it.

Yeah. There's like a bunch of horse trading that goes on. You're like, I'll come do this, but I want five minutes to talk about this. No one wants to do that five minutes.

That conversation didn't happen. It was more like, how are you? Well, did you know this? Yes. And did you know this?

I'll tell you I'm better than the Amazon rainforest, which is being depleted with 1,000 acres every hour.

Did you know 9 million? And I still do it. I'm like, 9 million people die a year from hunger. It's an inefficient use of resources. What are we doing?

And people were like, who's this weird girl?

She's supposed to give us fashion tips. She's got great style.

Exactly.

How to catch a boy. So I just went a little bit off.

So there was the light switch of Fame, which had to be completely disorienting. But then there was, do you sign a deal for $8 to $10 million with Columbia right after that? Was that you get a massive development deal?

I did, and I don't remember the amount. Okay.

That's what the Internet says. Let's just say it was a ton of money that you probably had never seen. Was that part exciting?

Yeah, I remember what was exciting at that time because I had seen Jody Foster direct stuff. I thought, they're asking me to make this movie, and I get to produce it because I had not been interested in the script many times. And I'd had one experience with that prior with the babysitter where I didn't produce the babysitter, but I remember the girl felt really like she had nothing to do. She was just a sex object. So I was able to talk to them about, Hey, can we make this more of a human being? And she's still obviously a sex object in the end of the day, but she's more of a human.

She's a multifaceted sex object.

I guess. It is about their messed up brains. They are all fantasizing about who she is. So I had her reading Shakespeare and doing weird things that made her different. But I got a taste of, Oh, you can adjust things and make things a little different. And so on Excess Baggage, they were asking me, What is it that you want? And I liked the idea. It was just not being executed at the time the way that I felt like I wanted to jump into.

So I have great curiosity about Excess Bagage. Okay. That was the first movie you developed under that deal. And Benicio Del Toro, Christopher Walk. And this is like a fucking incredible cast. My God, yeah. Like me, you had seen Usual Suspects, right? You're like, Who the fuck? Give me the fucking keys of Cocksucker. And then you flip you. He's so brilliant. He flipped you for real. He flipped you for real. When's the last time you saw that movie?

I know. I want to rewatch that.

Oh, my God. You can't understand one word he says in the whole thing. I loved it. He's brilliant. So was it hard to get... Because he seems so elusive to me. I don't understand. I would love to talk with him and understand what the game plan is because he's just gone for these long periods of time. And then he pops up in three movies right away. I'm like, How is he deciding all this? He seems hard to get into something. Was it hard to get him in that?

No. I had a similar conversation with him where we sat down and I was like, The script sucks. Let's make it good. And he was like, Okay.

Great.

He doesn't talk like that in your life.

It's really good, Monica. I know you're cringing, but that's how it sounds.

I know the line. Everyone knows the line.

You flip me for real. What was it like working with him?

He and I had an incredible working relationship. I could write a book about that. So we'll just give you the highlights, which is I think that we had a tremendous respect for each other. I know that he really valued. He always would say, You're so strong. And that was because I was totally unhinged. I did not know any rules. I had nobody me down and go, This is how you get things you want. Thank God, though.

You're so young.

Thank God, though, in some ways. In some ways, but in other ways, I really should have been sat down and explained. Okay, that's interesting. That said, we had an incredible journey together on that experience that anyone who was involved would understand. And it's really to be left in a vault until I'm writing a memoir because it's too...

That's the second time you police yourself. Maybe the third.

I police myself a lot.

Yeah, tell me about that. What's your fear?

Because I've been doing this for for a long time, and I don't like how if you and I have a really... I mean, there's so many things we've already said that I could go back in my mind and go, Oh, when it's heard, they then take the one little thing, and it's all over the news, and it's just annoying.

It is annoying. But you still care.

Do I care? That's a good question. My ex-husband, who I love very much, always said, I don't know what your problem is. Everything you say is so punk rock. He thought it was great. It's great. I can look back see it that way. But what I don't love is it being brought back to me. It's just boring. If every interview you do, somebody's bringing back something- Oh, they bring up something. Yes. Yes. I just want to stay in the now. We're having an incredible conversation. But what could be taken from it- And I'm not critical of it.

I was just curious, did you have an event where you felt I paid a big price for that?

No, I also just think there's a lot of things to say that it's no one's business. And I don't want to out people left and right. Why? There's a million things that have happened to me. I just have I have no interest in- Running other people through. Yes. Me either. Me either. I just have no interest. I don't lose sleep over any of the stuff. I have a really good life. I love my kid. I'm fine. So I just feel very well. I don't need the drama. I don't need the drama.

I don't say anything here about other people, but I'll admit, I would have been in love with Benicio Del Toro. He's so sexy. Yeah. And I think he looks like Brad Pitt.

Yes. So that was part of my pitch. So I had to go, see, now I don't know if this is okay to say.

Well, you tell me you can cut it out. I don't know.

Go see her and I'll tell you. I just don't know if he'd like this or who would like it. But I had to go into Sony and beg them to hire him. To hire him. And when I did, I was like, he's a Spanish Brad Pitt. Are you fucking kidding me? Like, what? He's so hot. I was blushing. I did this whole crazy thing. That's correct.

Yes.

I love that. There's nothing bad about that.

It's just flattering.

You're worried that Benito would hear that he had to get pitched to the studio, but he's realistic. He had three lines that he mumbled in one movie. He wanted to be the co-star of this movie.

He's probably like, Thank you for doing that. We had Brad Pitt on recently, and it was great. My main takeaway, because of course, that happened. People are pulling headlines. They're saying all kinds of stuff. They're saying stuff that didn't happen. They're like, Oh, he talked about his ex-wife. No, he did not. They're piecing things together that make no sense. I was getting so flustered every time I saw it. I was like, No, they're lying. But then I was like, But he doesn't care. He came on. He knew this was going to happen. If anyone knows. Yeah, he's like, he knew. He's like, They're going to do this. But he's obviously at a place that he's just like, I can't control that. I don't care. And I found that so admirable. That he's just past it. He's like, Whatever. People are going to say it. It's not true. And that's it.

I just find it really funny. I'll say something that's nuts, and I'm like, that's going to probably be something. And then I say something completely inane, like, we don't bathe our kid every night. Right. Which you shouldn't. And then all of a sudden, the mom blogs are like, Their kids are filthy. I'm like, That's the thing out of... I'm talking about smoking crack and Robin Lickers. No one's interested in that, but I didn't watch my kid.

It's almost funny. You almost just have to see it as funny. It is all so ridiculous. Yeah, because it's so ridiculous.

Like I said, I don't lose any sleep. I'm just trying to make my life easier.

Yeah, that makes total sense.

Okay, now this falls back under the umbrella of I think you lived through a time that current people would not have to live through. And so if you don't want to talk about it, fine. But I do want to talk about Batman because I feel like that must have been a scarring experience.

That man itself?

Just that whole experience of doing that movie. I didn't know any of this stuff. I just read about it today. People were calling you terrible names. Paparazzi were shouting.

I was running through the airport.

Yes, that's crazy.

They're standing there to answer questions and then get you onto the plane. Behind there is a little square box, and I would hide in there while they would scream at me. It was horrendous.

And you were how old? 22-ish?

No, I was 18.

You were quite young.

I was babies.

And people were thinking it's fine to do a full-page article about your physique.

Oh, yeah, all the time. And I was half the size I am now. It's so sick. It's so weird.

When all that was going on, were you just like, Oh, I guess this goes with the territory, or were you like, This is brutal?

No, that was pretty brutal. But also there's worse things in the world. People are dying and things, and I try to keep all that in perspective that it's a high class problem I supposed to have. I think that's bullshit.

You do? No, I'm not. I think that's bullshit. I think that's people afraid that someone's going to go, oh, boohoo, you're rich. Being chased to the airport, being called fat girl.

Exactly. It's clever. No, it's fucking wrong. It is awful. Do you know what I would say back? I mean, in my head, because I didn't want to talk to them. But how do you go home at night and speak to your children. I know. Like today, your daughter is a huge fan of mine. Tell her, Oh, I told the person that you love and admire that she's fat today. Does that feel good?

I met her today. I called her fat girl.

And also, what does that tell your daughter she's supposed to be? If this body is not okay, then what body is okay? It's mental.

Did people defend you in the airport?

I don't know. I was hiding with a thing over my head. I mean, it was really intense and it sucked.

Yeah, I don't think you need to make light of that. I think that's a very- No. That's traumatized. Traumatic. You've lost total control of your environment.

It definitely had its effects for sure. I do think now, you know how you have bad comments? Somebody gets angry at you about whatever. And then all these other people come to your fight and they're like, Fuck you. This is... And you're just like, Yeah. You don't have to say anything. Other people will come back and they go, no. I was like, great. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. And I've learned over the years, if you're on social media, you can't take any of that. Do you remember when you first started doing it, how you'd have 99 % be nice, and then there'd just be one thing and it would just get under your skin because we're new to it. And then I suddenly went, oh, who cares? This is ridiculous. Yeah. So you do get used to accepting things.

Yeah, I do terrible with it. I'll say in the moment, I don't care. And then three hours later, I'm driving on the 101, and I'm like, rereading the thing I read and defending myself.

You're fighting with yourself. You're speaking a lot.

Yes. And I'm like, no, this does affect me. I'm full of shit if I think, well, I don't know who that is. Well, I'm thinking about it three hours later. I know.

I have a question I was just thinking about. So because of this, that's crazy. Being chased through an airport, being called this, having articles about you.

By like eight men.

You were prayed on.

Why were they even allowed in the airport? You can't have people in the airport anymore. Not anymore.

Post 9/11.

They were allowed to come all the way up to the gate.

One of the great things about 9: 11.

Yes. The silver line no one likes to talk about.

Thank God.

They're not fair.

They're not fair when they talk about 9: 11. There's been a lot of upside.

You're getting praised by people who you respect for calling you strong, which is a great thing. Is it hard for you to be vulnerable and sensitive because you take so much pride in being strong and I'm not going to let that bother me?

I mean, I think I'm extremely vulnerable and sensitive. I'm probably too sensitive. Anyone who knows me, I'm an open book. That's why I have to watch myself because I'm so open. I never used to pay attention to any of that, and I used to just be completely open. I mean, the thing that I would think before I would get here is, I'm going to have too much fun with you. I think that I can just say anything because it's enjoyable. When I was a young girl, I thought, Well, I have to tell the truth, and I want to be open. That's how I am. I would never have any way of being responsible for those things. But I've just learned over time that there some things that are yours. I do think I'm healthy enough that I don't need to expose everything. That's for your friends. That's for fun conversations. That's maybe for when you're dying, you want to write a book, or when everyone's dead, so it doesn't matter. I sometimes think we all vomit a lot of details and information out there that I don't know is really helpful or needed. It's this chaotic unleashing.

I come from such a specific background where it was imperative to get sober to shed that. I've had 21 years of going into rooms strangers, and they're all dead honest. I like the results of that so much. That to me, to experience that and then to leave there and then have any amount of shame about anything about me felt so incongruent. I I enjoy being that way more than I enjoy being protective. And also, I recognize it's not for everybody.

There are things that are yours. We're really open on this show.

He's not going to tell you the ins and outs of your relationship with your wife. You just aren't.

Yeah. Generally, anything that involves someone else, I'm very protective of. And then I expose my mom a lot, too. But she's giving me her blessing. Okay, here's what I'm getting at. I'm impressed you didn't just quit altogether.

Well, now I have a little bit of anxiety. Not real. Just a slight thought that you guys think I'm super guarded.

No, no, no, no. Not at all.

I don't find you to be standoffish or anything. I've just seen you police yourself a few times, and I wondered if there was any reason behind it. Just out of curiosity.

I think the main thing in a nutshell is there There's so much going on in my life currently, and I just like to stay with what's happening. I just did an entire press tour in New York. I have four things coming out, and the only thing they're talking about is Clueless. At some point, it's like, if I do an hour interview and nothing comes out of it other than Clueless, you're just like, Wait a second. You know what I mean? And I'm so happy and grateful that everybody loves it. But these things are great. Begonia with Emma Stone and Jessie Plummen is amazing. Yes. Irish blood is really, really good and pretty Like, these are good things. Yes, yes, yes. So if nobody gets to see them because they're so clueless.

Yeah. So I come into this with anxiety because my fear is you must feel that way. Yeah, exactly. I'm not dumb. If I were you, I would be like, okay, yes, just fuck up about Clueless.

I love it.

No, I love it. I loved it. But also I don't want to talk about it for the rest of my life.

I don't mind talking about it for the rest of my life if the other things can be talked about. Oh, yeah. That makes sense.

My thing was punked, right? Yes. It doesn't matter how many years after I I've done that and I'm doing movies.

And things you're proud of that you worked hard on.

Yes. There was 10 years where I was like, Shut the fuck up about punk. And stop asking me when it's like to act. I already was acting on that.

Yeah, you had to explain to them that you were an actor. Yes. Because they didn't know.

They thought you- I had a huge chip on my shoulder. And when I hated about that, when I came to peace with it all, I was like, I robbed the whole experience of that from myself because I just didn't want you to bring it up in an interview, and I was sick of talking about it. No, I wasn't friends with Ashton Kutcher. He didn't put his friend in You know, like I auditioned. All these hang-ups I had about it. Oh, yeah. And at one point, I was like, Dude, you're on the show that was this cultural phenomenon. You were a big part of the reason. And fuck, yeah. I've come to love it.

So my thing is, I don't mind that. What I guess I mean is, like we said, if you put out one thing, you were talking about blackface. Oh, yes, yes, yes. I don't know what word I said, but maybe I said, Oh, I don't know what I said. But whatever it was, let's say that went out. Yes. Then like, that's all. Nothing else gets talked about. And so it It doesn't matter, but it only matters because I've just spent a whole year dedicated to my work. Yes. Where that involves family and sacrifices. And like, this is your passion.

Living in another country for three months.

For it all to just be out mind by some dumb thing. That's what I guess it is.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I get that.

I do, too. I think, though, and this is very upsetting, but I think the truth is currently also just because the media cycle is this fast. So that It's going to be a headline- For a second, and then they forget.

For four hours.

And then there's a new one.

No, I know.

Which is also- Our President will probably do something that'll take the temperature.

Definitely. But also what I think is wild is now you see a headline, somebody's name pops up, and then for some reason, they do then see the project. There's this weird thing where it's like, Oh, this person's in the zeitgeist again. Oh, there she is in this movie. I'll watch it. We're so fragmented now. And weirdly, again, I hate this, but being out there in general, I think is positive. It's that horrible old thing, all prices, good press, is gross and currently, I think, really true.

I've had things get derailed, though, by things that have come out for sure. And it's just a bummer when you work on something really hard. Yeah.

But what I was going to ask is, you've got the number one hit, Comedy of the summer. Then you're in Batman, the biggest franchise, and we don't even have Marvel yet. If I were you, I was like, okay, I'm doing as good as you can do, and I hate it. It's not like this is as good as it gets. I'm the lead of enormous movies that are successful, and I hate it. And then I'm wondering if also you're out there shining a light on a lot of problems that need addressing, were you shocked to find out what angers people so much about activists? How have you synthesized why activists tend to anger people so much? What is your conclusion after years of being an activist?

I found, because at first, it's like when you discover what's going on about anything, and I was young, so I discovered what was happening in the animal world and how our food production was affecting people who were starving all over the world, and nobody cares, nobody talks about it, and the Earth problems, and all of these things that this one thing could affect four big, huge areas, right? Yeah. Animal cruelty, people starving to death, health, and environment. All at the same time, It just seemed like a good, when you're bowling, what's that called? Strike. Strike. Yeah. Just get it all with the one thing. It's so efficient. But I realized when I learned all this stuff, it was so eye-opening. I wanted to run around screaming, rape, murder, fire, everywhere I went. Right. And nobody wants to hear that. They don't have room for it. I don't know if it was Howard Lyman. He made tons of money as a cattle farmer. He had crazy heart problems and was in the hospital about to die. He had a moment where he came back. They told him, The food that you're eating is what caused this.

He had this huge revelation, changed his diet, changed everything. He's an amazing man who's been going around telling everybody his story. Well, at one point, I think I went to an animal rights conference. I think it was in the year 2000. He was there. I remember him saying something like, It's better to wait to be asked about this stuff rather than going around. Prostalizing. Yeah. You're going to have way better results. Also, I thought, Oh, God, that's such a relief.

You'd feel guilty if you hadn't shined a light on that.

Yeah. I remember my husband saying, We're not together anymore, but we go to a party. This is when I was like, 21, and I was newly vegan. He would say, Is there anything you can talk about besides that? You seem like really stressed out when you leave. I'm like, I know. He was right, but I didn't know how. It became a relief. Ief when I wrote my book, The Kind Diet, because I was like, look, I'm going to write everything I have to say here. And if you want to read it, you can. And if you don't want to, you don't have to. And now I don't have to talk about it anymore. I can promote it. I can tell people when they ask me questions, that's where it all is. And I don't have to answer the stupid... A lot of people are just jabbing you.

Yeah, they want to have a debate with you about it.

Yeah. And I can tell right away if they're actually interested in a real conversation or not. So it's like, oh, if you're interested, just read this. I don't need to spend my evening. It's a lot of energy.

But if I were you, I think I would be feeling like, I'm just saying something to try to help, and everyone's so mad about it. What's going on? Because I've had this experience where we're visiting my mom and my stepdad, who's now passed. And Kristin mentions, wash the apple first. There's a lot of pesticides on the apple. I hear my stepdad in the kitchen. He's like, Jesus fucking Christ. Now we can't even eat apples. He was just so upset. And I was like, what's going on in Barton's mind right now. He loves Kristen to death.

He feels defensive. He feels judged.

He feels like he's best.

If we do this, we must think you're stupid for doing that. That's a kernel that could definitely happen. So you can probably tell by looking at me, I'm into lifting weights and I eat a a lot of meat. I have a lot of accounts I follow. I'm not vegan, but also I don't care if someone's vegan. What I can't understand is people who fucking hate vegans because they eat meat. I don't understand why vegans hate meat eaters. That makes a little more sense to me. But another one is gas car, electric car. Just don't drive an electric car. I'm super into cars. And people that are into cars, they don't just don't buy an electric car. They hate electric cars. All their posts are about they fucking hate electric cars. They want them be made illegal. I don't understand. Hating something because- Hating the person that's trying to do better is really tough for me.

I understand the opposite way more. Again, that's tough because there's judgment, and it's just not going to work to judge people. But to be like, how dare you drive an electric car? It's like, it is better. What's to hate?

This is so confusing to me because I'm not really...

Dialed into the motorsports community.

Yeah. I have experienced people in my years where they're like, you're vegan? Why are these shoes vegan? You know, and you're like.

Pretty new through a puberty test.

Yes, they are. But let's just pretend they're not for a second. Does the veganness go away? Choosing this way of eating, you save so many animals. Like, I did this because I love animals, period. End of story. But once I did, I ditched my asthma inhaler. I had allergy shots twice a week. I was taking antibiotics two or three times a year for bronchitis. I had acne everywhere. And I, after Batman, was what they called a little pudgy, right? Or some people said, fat girl. And I changed all of it. All of this went away. My skin was glowing. My eyes were white. My nails, you couldn't bend them. It was like so strong. Everything changed about my health. All positive. Yeah. And then I did research and was like, wait a second. Bruce Lee was vegan. Wait, Nara Tulovo. There were some athletes who did it for performance. It helped with inflammation. It helped with the recovery. And it gave you longer lasting performance. And then I started to learn that there was all this science, and that's why I wrote the book, The Kind Diet, because there was all this science and medical research that supported this idea.

It was this magical thing that was happening to me had happened to people who had cancer, who had had heart disease, who had diabetes, who had lupus, who had MS. I was like, Oh, this is interesting. I didn't know. I remember crossing myself, and I'm Jewish, but going, I didn't know if I was going to be well, but I couldn't look myself in the mirror one more day and say, You're a good person. You love animals, but it's okay with you how they're tortured and mutilated.

Yeah, it's completely incongruent with Europe.

It was hypocritical.

It was too hypocritical for me, and I just couldn't do it anymore. So that's why I changed. But all these things started to happen to me. Then I learned about the environment, which I did not understand that connection at the time. And then I started to learn about all the starving children all over the world and the people who are dying. I was like, this choice is the most efficient way to knock out all these problems at once. You can't solve everything, but you can solve a lot here. Even if people just do it more than not is better. I feel like it's been great for me, and I loved writing the books, Kind Mama, Helping Mommies Get Pregnant. I just really found a way to harness this thing that I cared so passionately about and dive into that.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, If You Dare. I'm impressed you didn't just bail. Bail. Because if you're getting heat from both sides, some part of me would go- What heat? You're getting the attention at the airport, which is totally unpleasant. Yes, that heat. Yes. Then I imagine when you're sharing the causes you care about, people are being critical of your activist work. And how at that point do you go like, I just fucking give up. I give up on all of it.

The activism stuff was so crystal clear to me, especially once I wrote my book. It was too rewarding. There was a man who had come to the first signing, and then he came to a signing two, three years later when I went to paperback. And he goes, You don't remember me. And I was like, I'm sorry, I don't. He said, Because I've lost 100 pounds, I'm off every medication I had. And he had changed his life. And another time I was at the theater, I mean, this happens a lot, but people say they love Cher and Clueless every single day, everywhere I go. And that is really lovely. Or they've seen this movie, or they've seen that movie, and that's really lovely. But nothing is more lovely than a woman who comes over to me and says, I couldn't get pregnant. And I read your book, and I got pregnant. And thank you. We start crying. That's the juice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that I was not going to escape. I guess what happened with the acting was that even though there were hard parts of it, I did go away. I wrote for a long time.

I started doing other things.

We did a ton of theater, I noticed.

I did a ton of theater, and the theater got me back into the acting.

That was my hunch from looking at this from the outside going, Oh, yeah, that version sucked, but I love acting. I can go do this here without all that.

Which I forgot. You forget you're an actor.

Also, money enters the picture, and that's a very powerful force.

Complicated. But I did love aspects. Benicio and I had an incredible... I mean, there was a lot of hard parts of it, but we also had a great experience and being able to learn on the job the way that I did. And then I got to do Love's Labor's Lost with Kenneth Branna, and I got to do things like that. Now, I made a lot of dumb choices along the way, for sure. That's the only way we can do it. We just got to learn from the mistakes. I feel like I came back in a different way. I got to do all my theater, and through the theater, I got to just work with really cool artists.

And you got to love acting again for what it was. Yes. Yes. Okay.

You did Reptile again with Benicio.

Yes, that was amazing.

Are you guys the same? We are.

It's so interesting, our relationship, and I don't want to speak for him, but I know that he trusts me.

I would feel very rewarded by that.

I was so excited when they asked for me to do this. I remember saying to him, Are you sure? It was so great.

Yeah, and the Killing of a Sacred Deer, which is incredible. How did that come to be?

Killing of a sacred deer. I did an audition. I got a call from my agent who's very good and feisty, and he said, You need to show up in 24 hours or something ridiculous to this audition. Francine, this amazing casting director, I believe, had seen me in a play I'd done on Broadway, the last one that I was in. She brought me in for this. Brian, my agent, said, Now you're not going to know who this is because you never know anything, and you're not going to know who any of these people are, but just go watch the lobster real quick and be ready and show up to this audition. I watched the lobster, and then I did this audition. And then some weeks later, I got a call that your ghost wanted to speak to me, and I was in Australia at the time with my five-year-old son. I got on the Zoom thing with him, and I thought it was another step in the process.

Yes.

So I was nervous. Yeah. But it wasn't another... I mean, it was in that I think he was checking I wasn't awful as a human. Yeah, that's smart. Yeah, I think he just wanted to check. And then in that call, he said, I'd really like you to do this.

Was it so exciting? It really was. If I had just seen the lobster.

Because now I went back and watched Dogtooth. And have you seen... You need to watch Dogtooth. No. Dogtooth. Dogtooth is his first film, and it is so freaking brilliant. It's Greek, and there's subtitles. So anyway, that was just incredible. There's moments in your career that just feel so exciting. Oh, yeah. The crush felt so exciting because it was my first movie, and I felt like I was with a family, and Carrie always was so nice. It was such a juicy part. And then I remember Love's Labor's Lost felt like a big deal to me because it was Kenneth Branagh. It was Shakespeare. That was such an exciting thing to have happen. On Broadway with Laura Linny in this play was an incredible experience with Daniel Sullivan as the director.

They give me just enough stuff to keep you going.

I do. And David Mamet. We're doing a play with David Mamet. It was incredible. That was a highlight. So this was one of those. And then I started to see all his films, and I'm obsessed with his films. I'm so grateful to get to be in another one. Yeah.

How cool. He did The Favorite. He did Poor Things.

Poor Things. He did- That was my favorite movie last year.

Yeah, Poor Things was so wonderful. And Kinds of Kindness is so good, too.

I haven't seen that one yet.

I'm going to need to have a Jorgos Marathon.

Marathon, I think.

Yes, it's worth it.

Okay, so you're in his new movie on a Halloween comes out. Yeah. How do I say it? Begonia. Begonia. Okay, Irish blood. I called Monica from Nashville. I was watching it, and I was like, I was going to watch one episode of this because we have Alicia coming, and I'm on episode three, and I can't fucking stop.

He could not stop.

That makes me so happy. No, look, I had some issues with it, and I only say that. Sure.

You can tell me all the issues.

I'm going to tell you why I'm saying that? Because if you're me and you're watching and you have some issues at the beginning, I'm telling you, stick with it. Okay. I'm allergic to things that are a little sacrin. I was just a little nervous about how emotional it was.

Is that with the dad part?

Yes. The flashback stuff when you're a little girl. All right. So just to set everything up. You come in at 10 years old and the house is trashed and dad's gone, and you assume that he beat mom up.

There are bruises. The mom has bruises. And so the natural assumption is that- This guy you loved and adored.

Her, her. So that's a very heartbreaking moment for you. You're a little girl. You grew up. You're very jaded when we meet you as an adult. You're a divorce attorney. You're an angry woman. A little bit.

Tough.

She's tough. Yeah. Doesn't believe in love, can't find a partner she Well, she's not even looking, really.

Exactly.

She got a lot of drama. She got a lot of drama. She got to spend the night, you're like, Yeah, get the fuck out of here. Isn't that ridiculous? Get out of here as fast as you can. But you get sent this envelope, and in it is a key, and it is in Ireland, and you, for some reason, decide, I'm going to go explore this. And when you get there, it's a key to a box. You discover that your father is dead. I think we can say that. Okay. That's early enough. We need that for what this show is about, I think. Does that make you nervous?

Yes and no. I think it's worth it. If you think it's good, go for it.

I'll tell you why, because now we've got a mystery. We've got a who done it. Dad has been killed, and you have been left some clues by dad. Okay, now here's the gear that it kicked into for me that made me insatiable for it, which was, did you ever watch Veronica Mars? No.

Do I need to see Veronica Mars?

Yeah, it's best.

Wait, is that with Kristen?

Yes, that's her first show.

One of her first things.

Let me just tell you, I started dating her. I know she was on a show called Veronica Mars. I know it's about a teenage sleuth.

It's on the CW or WV.

We've been together for four months, and we're in New York shooting a movie together. And I'm like, I'm going to have to watch this fucking show. I got the DVDs. Same thing. Fourth episode, she walks in the room. She's like, You want to go out to a spotted pig? I'm like, Shut the fuck up. Ron's about to fucking blast. I got so stuck there. You must watch it because this is very much a grown up Veronica Mars. Because Because you're not built to be an investigator. You're a lawyer. But you're tough and you're shrewd and you're smart and you seem to be completely fearless to walk into any situation. And then all of a sudden, this really good noir investigation happens. And it's very Ron Mars, which is a very high compliment.

Oh, very.

It's a good one.

Thank you.

Oh, I'm so happy that you love it. That makes me so happy.

And it's on Acorn, which I didn't know about Acorn. Did you know about Acorn? Aaron's obsessed with Acorn. So Acorn specializes, and they just show British shows. Oh, cool. And Aaron watches every single cast of my- Aaron James' best friend. My two soulmate best friend. So Acorn just plays British stuff, and this is an original for them. So Ireland, how long were you there?

Three months.

And had you been prior to that?

Yeah, I had. I loved Ireland. I don't like saying ex-husband. It sounds so horrible. The man that I was married to for 20 years.

It's a great run.

I know. I say this all the time. If Chris and I ever split up, I would only describe this as still an enormously successful relationship. Yes, because it's been a long time now. We loved each other to death. We had these two beautiful children. We had this great time together. And I would really feel like I was dishonoring it if ever we were not together.

I will always love him so much. He lives across the street from me, by the way. Oh, really? Oh, that's wonderful. He used to live down the street, but now he lives across the street. That's so lovely. I will always love him.

You can't be together with someone for 21 years.

Yeah, I love him so much. Sometimes, this again, I probably shouldn't say, I was walking the dog. My dog loves him because he gives him meat. Sure. He just gives him steak. So my dog's pulling me up to his house. I get into the house and he's standing there in his underwear and I'm noticing all the things. I'm just like, this is so interesting. I'm still attracted. I'm sure we're both attracted to each other. Of course, for life. We love each other. And that was my partner for 20 something years. So there I am just like, This is It's so weird. It's so funny.

Also, if you were four glasses of wine deep in your house and you looked out the window and you're like, I just got to cross the street. So close.

But the reality is we can't. So we won't.

I will say that's really brave to make a decision like that when it's easier to just stay in something that's not really working or isn't right, but that you've been together for so long and there's love there.

It's hard to make that decision. It was heartbreaking. It was heartbreaking. We were both in love with each other when we broke up. Yeah, that's just a horrible thing. But We co-parent beautifully. Why am I talking about him? What were we just talking about? Oh, he and I had gone on a trip. We went to Ireland. The destination was the MTV Music Awards of Europe, like Ireland. Dennis Hopper was there, and it was wild and fun. We decided to fly in to, I think, Shannon Airport and drove. So we took two weeks to get to the MTV Music Awards. Oh, wow. And I remember being like, We need to live here. It's so incredible.

When you were in those Hollywood-y scenes, could you enjoy yourself and drop and be a movie star? Could you pop on that persona? If you're at the MTV Movies Awards, could you have fun?

Music stuff was fun because everyone was more wild and feisty. I'm like a hippie punk rock weirdo. My husband was in a punk rock band, and We were rock and roll mixed with my environmental, I call it political, but my entire thinking of wanting to know the truth and being dedicated to love and kindness and trying to make this world better. That's my rebellious fucked upness. I had this hippie punk rock, and I don't know how to do small talk, so I'm useless in a situation where I have to engage about, I want to go deep right away and I want to know.

Yeah, same.

Me too. I did well at music things because it feels like there's a more- It's gritty. It's more gritty. It's more wild. I did well at things. I remember I went to the GQ Awards in London, and I brought Timothy Spall with me as my date. Who's he? He's an amazing English actor, and he was in Love's with me. And we are dear friends. He came to our wedding. He's a lovely man. But that's who I wanted as my date. And if you have a visual of Timothée Spall, he's now sober and still the sweetest man on the planet. But we were a little odd couple at this thing. He's a lot older than me. I wasn't showing up with Johnny Depp or Brad Pitt. Not that I wouldn't have been open to that. It just didn't work out that way.

You don't have the same names, but after Clueless, did you get any random calls from an agent? Like so and so wants your number. You don't have to give any names, but did you have those calls?

Well, by Older Gentlemen. Sure. Oh, actually, hang on.

Older Gentlemen.

I can tell you about them later. There was one, two, I think. Oh, three. I'm going to go with there's three. What I'll tell you when we get out of here. Okay, okay, okay, lovely, lovely. But it wasn't like- It wasn't gross.

It was just like- No, it was fine.

Let's have dinner. Yeah, and some of them were under the guise of let's work together. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the move. But there was nothing inappropriate with any one of them.

Okay, so now this is back to your husband. I was with a woman for nine years before Kristin, and I had this huge fear when we broke up. Oh, man, that's the last person I'll ever date that knew me before.

Oh.

I liked the notion that I had been with someone that had seen the whole thing, that really knew me and still liked me. Did you have that fear when you got divorced at all? Like, man, the one person on earth that knew me from the jump.

Well, he didn't. I met him when I was 21. He caught me at the highest of the moments. Yeah, that's true.

Congrats to him. Yeah.

Yeah, what a stuff. Cool timing.

But I did have the feeling, and still do, of how do you find that partnership and that love ever again? He's my emergency contact. I'm his emergency contact. Yeah. You know?

He's your soulmate, really.

I think we're going to be something forever. I don't know what soulmate really is or means, because if we were soulmates, wouldn't we be together?

Well, not necessarily. I think soulmates take lots of different shapes, and I think you can have multiple. But I also think it's just like, we're connected, and we're going to be connected forever.

I remember dating after having been separated for a long time and thinking, if I like someone, it felt I was betraying our relationship. Right. Even though we were divorced. Yeah. I would get teary-eyed like, Oh, I like someone. This is crazy. I'm betraying our love. It's insane.

How would you feel guilty? I remember with Kristen and be like, I want to tell her this story about Bre when she was a little girl and found a tampon in the toilet and came running out and was screaming, There's a bloody bone in the toilet, to her whole family like, She had never seen a tampon. And there's like a hundred of those. There's all these funny stories you accumulate. And you're like, Is it cool that I tell my new girlfriend this adorable story about my ex-girlfriend?

Or you have jokes that are fun?

I think it is.

But it's complex across the board because does Kristen want to hear about this story? Maybe not. Also, is it fair to breathe? That's like, That's my thing with this person. Do I bring it over here? It's complicated.

But if it's like Aaron- Of course.

There's no complication there.

I know, but what feels crazy is, yes, of course, anything Aaron and I have worked on for the last 30 years that's now part of my vernacular is going to come out, and I have no issue with it because he's a Plutonic friend. But also I have nine years of this stuff with Bre. I know. That's part of who I am, and it feels complicated at times.

I feel like each partner has to hear about all the partners eventually, right?

I don't mind at all, personally. I've not been jealous of her, actually.

Because it's your history. Yeah, it's who you are.

It's just your life. Yeah. Okay, so were you in Dublin shooting?

We were shooting all around Wicklow in Dublin. I got to live in this really cute little village that I love so much. I love Ireland. I've always loved Ireland, and getting to work there was really, really incredible. The people are very different there. They're so warm. They're so generous of spirit. They're very happy. And when they're not happy, they're funny. There's just so much character. Something's going right in Ireland. They have the potato famine, for God's sakes. They should be pissed off. But they're doing great. They should be pissed off. You go to other countries and you can really see the hardship on people at times, and they don't feel that way. To me, they feel just so alive, so grateful, and so funny, and they're so clever.

You did six. When do you get a sense if you'll get to do more?

I don't know. We started tinkering. I I was lucky enough they came to me this really early, so I got to be involved with all the key creative elements. So I worked on the edit extensively. I worked on every script extensively. We're doing it differently this time if we get to go again so that I can just focus on the acting when I show up because it was really a lot.

Well, I was hooked, so you should feel like that was time well spent. I'm impressed that you watched it at all. Oh, no, I loved it. I loved it. In fact, it's rare that I call Monica, if ever, and say, Oh, I'm fucking hooked. You got to 20 seconds.

I love that so much. It is rare.

Well, Alicia, this has been lovely, and you gave us so much time, and I really appreciate it. I don't know if I was at that dinner, but I like to think I wasn't.

Let's just pretend you weren't or were.

You remember it positively, so we'll pretend like it did happen. Okay, All right. Well, Alicia, I want everyone to watch Irishblood and then also get ready for Halloween Begonia.

If you have any interest in an erotic thriller, it's out right now, Pretty Thing.

I do like erotic readers.

Yeah, great. It's Justin Kelly. He's a great filmmaker.

Awesome. So everyone watch Irishblood. Thank you so much. I hope we get to do it again. This has been a blast. This is so much fun.

Oh, good. Thank you.

He is an arm care expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's going to let them have the facts. I'd like to begin with an update.

Okay.

This was sent to us by Rob, and Rob received a message that said, Hi, guys. I just saw this week's episode with my wife and saw that you were talking about Guar. I can make that date for Monica happen for real next week at the VIP opening of Guar's Art Show, September 12th. I love this. Blatha was just Blothar. Blothar is, I guess, the lead singer. The new lead singer. The new lead singer. The old blood died in 2014. Oh, no. Okay.

Sorry for his loss.

What an incredible name, Blothar. But we're told... Oh, here we go. Here we go. Blothar, the Berserker is the currently vocalist, an occasional basis in the heavy metal band, Gwar. He appears as a stout, horned, pig-face goblin.

Just my type.

I'm now... That's what I want on my headstone. Here lies Dax Shepard, a stout, horned, pig-face goblin. Holy shit. How hard would you laugh if you were walking through a cemetery and you saw that?

Okay, so looks like- You're business. Something might be percolating here with the beserker.

Blathar the beserker.

So I guess I'll keep everyone up to it.

There's an age gap to contend with. There is. There's 56, Rob? Yeah, he's 56. Yeah, but- Oh, 57 this month. Oh, okay.

So he's 19-ish.

So still within the 20-year window.

Yeah, look, age actually doesn't bother me.

To a degree, right?

To a degree.

You want to spend more than a couple of years with someone.

Depends on how rich they are.

Before they pass on.

Speaking of that, I have an update.

Oh, my gosh. I can't wait.

I am days away, days from becoming a billionaire.

Oh, my goodness. I know. How? Boy, a lot happened in the five days since I saw you.

I know. I'm sorry.

What? Tell me.

I will be winning the lottery on Saturday.

Okay. And it is for a billion bucks?

Yes. Okay. So I've never participated in the lottery. Right. And now I'm a gambling addict.

Okay. How did it start? And how did we get here?

So on Labor Day, I was at a Friends, the Hansons, and everyone was chatting, a bunch of people there. And someone innocently brought up that the jackpot was at one point, maybe just one billion. Oh, my gosh. Okay. That's crazy. That's crazy, right? And I was like, oh, that's silly. But then we all started talking about it, and people were like, oh, yeah, I'll buy tickets.

These conversations all go the exact same, right? I think someone goes, it's 1. 1 billion. Someone's like, so 550 million every day.

Exactly. Okay, so that means lump sum, 500 and something million, and then taxes. So really, it's this.

Oh, right, right, right. So we're down to 265 Which is great.

Out of a billion.

This is... I mean- It's a lot of money, but what a hit. Okay, but- Giving up 750K.

Or you don't have to. You could take the billion over the 30 years.

Yeah.

You could.

You could. Should you? I don't think so.

Well, I can't because now I'm in a pact. Okay. So we're all discussing this, and then the next day is the last day you can buy tickets. The drawing was that night. It was Monday.

Monday night was the drawing. Sorry. Sunday was Labor Day hang. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, This is going to change. The most. Everyone's going to change. Who's going to change the most? And in what way? And what are you going to do with the money? What are you going to buy? It's so fun. That's the fun of a lottery ticket. What would you buy? It's like a justified dream session.

It's free money. What would you buy if you won?

I might. I grabbed a Southwest flight out to Nashville the other day. Yeah.

Great. Flies into Burbank. I love that.

D money. I appreciate the direct flight. I'm in the middle seat. It's tight. But a billion dollars. When I flew to Nashville, I can charter a jet. I think that sounds really nice.

Okay.

I mean, mostly before any of that. Let me be clear. I would give a bunch more money away to a bunch of people that I know and love. That's nice.

Yeah. Yeah. So we all have different opinions on that, too. What are you going to do? I'm just going to get my pool. I'm going to throw money at a situation that's currently happening at the house. It's stressing me out. Okay. Just going to throw money at that and not try to figure it out. We'll just take care of that. That's right. And then I'm like, good. I'm going to save it. I'm fine. Yeah. But no, I do. I really want to go to a hotel in Los Olivos, which is a couple hours away. It's an Abersh hotel. I've been really wanting to go there all summer. Is that in Mexico what you just said? No, here in California. Los... What is it? Los Olivos or Los Olivos. Okay. It's like a little wine town. Okay, great. Calleigh's been. She says it's great. And it's just been on my list to go for a while. It's an Abersh hotel. And so for me- Don't put it into no Beardge Hotel. For me, that's first thing first. I'm going there. Yeah, yeah. Okay, great. And I've convinced everyone, if they win, can we please just go there?

Everyone said yes to that. Okay, great. So then it's Monday, okay? And we are at- How many tickets did you all buy? I'm not there yet. So there's me, Charlie, Erica, Anna, Jess, and Jess's friend, who I don't know well enough to know if I can out him. So we're all hanging out. It's Jess's birthday. Okay. And And talking about the lottery, this is when we decide on our pact. Okay, here's what we're going to do. Jess was turning 49. We're all going to buy 49 tickets. Okay. And that's great. Then we're looking at 300-ish tickets. Yes. And we're going to go to different places. We're all doing this. If you win, you have to give everyone in the pot $3 million.

Okay.

That's nice. Right? Mm-hmm. We pinkieswore on this. It was basically a blood pact.

Yeah. That's legally binding, I think.

Yeah, a big time. Charlie and Erica leave, and And- You decided to kick them out? They had to go. They had to go. And we had a couple hours until... It was closing at 7: 00. Yeah. And it was 5: 30. And we're like, Okay, well, we got to go walk to go get our tickets. And Jess was like, Okay, yeah, here's my $20. And we were like, No, it's 49 tickets each.

Yeah, exactly.

And he was like, I didn't hear that. And then his friend also had I heard that. So already there's a fight brewing. Because no, you can't give 20. No. You have to give the equal amount.

If you give 20, you're not getting $3 million. You're getting 1. 3.

No, you just can't be in it. I agree.

But even best case.

Best case. But that's what they would probably say like, Well, we'll just get less. No, that's not how it works.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

That's right. The whole point is to increase our odds. That's right.

Yeah.

So fights were starting, and it was his birthday, so it was like, Can't be in a big fight. But Anna and I were getting mad. And also Anna was like, We've been saying 49 for so long. Why? What's happening here? What happened? So a rift happened in the group. We kicked them out. We called Charlie and Eric, we said, This is what's going on.

Are you under the understanding that it's 49? Yes.

And are we a go? Yes. Obviously, it's 49. Obviously. So we left Jess and his friend in the lurch. Anna and I walked down the street. We got our tickets.

Oh, God. So how many tickets? So we got- 296?

No. Oh, because the- $100 each. No, sorry. It was $100 per- Oh, tickets are $2?

Yeah, exactly. I thought they were a buck. I'm back in the '80s.

I know.

Sorry.

So anywho, We didn't win. Okay. But guess what?

Tell me.

Nobody won.

So what is it now?

So then yesterday was another draw. Oh, my goodness. And so, okay, no one won on Monday. On Tuesday, we have to have another discussion. The pact has to come back together. Are we doing this again?

Reconvene.

Charlie's like, I think the rule is if it's over a billion, we got to do it. But for how long? I was like, Yeah, this is the dilemma.

Conundrum.

I said, Look, we'll match whatever you decide you want to put in. Okay. So he decided they wanted to do half.

Okay, so now on the second round, you can augment the pact.

Well, as long as we're all doing the same- That's right.

Then it's fine. So now we're down to 25? Or what are we down to now? Yeah. 50?

50. 50 tickets total. For all of us.

Okay, so $100 for it. Which isn't the best.

Yeah. And same thing. We were in Pasadena, we walked down the street to our chef- You didn't side by? No.

Because you thought it would give you a bad look.

No. That's unethical.

I thought you may feel that way.

Okay. And also on the phone, we were talking to Charlie and Eric, and we were discussing the situation with Jess, I heard Erica say, Okay, and then we'll just buy. And I was like, No, no, no, no.

Okay.

They're already changing by the second before they even run.

You're running one of these game theory experiments. I know.

And I'm proud of myself. It's like a beast game. I'm proud of myself the way I've handled things.

The way you've carried yourself.

Yeah. So he said, We'll do what you do. We went to Pasadena this time. Sure. It's also so funny.

What's the total, though? You're holding on the total.

Of how many we bought?

If it was over a billion on the first time, what's it at now?

Okay, so it was at 1. 3 yesterday.

Oh, boy. I'm sorry, it didn't shoot up way more.

I think it was- I think a lot of people do what you do.

It's like they just spend a lot. Now they actually feel like they need to protect their initial investment.

Exactly.

For the lottery.

So then we didn't win again. Oh, I should say the first time, one of my power balls was right. So I think we won $4.

Okay.

Pretty good.

Put that on the leisure.

Exactly. All right. Okay. Then yesterday, we didn't win again. Although- Did anyone win? No. It's still in play. And guess what it is now? 1. 7 billion. Then I was texting with Eric about something else, and I was like, Oh, well, I'm about to be a billionaire tonight, so none of this is relevant. And then he was like, Oh, yeah. Oh, no. He said, My rule is to play if it's over a billion. So I was like, Yes, this is a good rule.

A lot of people's rule, I think.

So I asked Charlie and Eric and Anna if we could include Eric in the pact.

Okay. But you know he's going to do a side.

So, yeah, because Eric said he wants to put $500 in. Okay. So I said, That's fine. If you join the pact, put in what we're putting in and have that separate. Like, those tickets have to be separate.

Yeah, Yeah. And you're only getting three million off of that.

Exactly. He's just happy with that.

And then he's going to have- Well, your thing doesn't make a ton of sense.

Why?

Well, in your pact, doesn't everyone pull all the tickets that were purchased? No.

We We don't have ours.

You hold on to yours. Yeah. Interesting. Why? Well, because I think generally a pool would be everyone put in the equal amount. These are all of our tickets, and we split it evenly. I know. Yours is like, I'm going to buy 25 tickets. You buy 25 It's increasing our odds, but it's still like, this is my money. It's more of an insurance bet on a 21.

Yeah. I think it's good.

Yeah, it's fine.

I mean, I personally would be fine us doing it your way, where we put it all in and- I want to be clear.

I don't know if it's my way. I just think that's the conventional way of pooling. It is.

Yeah. It is. But I think some people are like, no, if it's my money, I'm not going to feel comfortable splitting it evenly.

And that's fine. What if someone It just disappeared. Like, whoever had the winning ticket, they got so greedy. They didn't want to kick out the nine million bucks.

It could happen.

It could happen. You've watched Mr. Beast. I haven't. I haven't, but I know that was displayed on there, wasn't it? Yeah. Can we I'm going to address the fact, what if you read that Robert Downey Jr. Won the Powerball? Yeah. You'd be like, you fucking... People would be like, you fucking asshole.

People would be mad. I wouldn't be mad.

So, here's what I'm thinking right now. I obviously want to go buy a thousand.

Do you want to join the pact?

Hold on a second. Hold on a second. But I'm thinking through how angry I would be. Of course. I was broke, and I saw that an Affleck just won a billion dollars. Listen. So it might be a big... It might not be ethical for me to participate.

I don't- I guess I'll give you the links on this. I guess I could give it- All away, but you won't.

Most of it away. Yeah. Okay.

Now, listen.

I want a little something, too. We all want a little something.

I know. I know. And this is a dilemma because I feel mixed on this. I feel like, yeah, you're already rich.

Like, Letterman won the lotto. Come on.

I know. But also I feel like, so what's he supposed to do? Not participate in fun games? I know. Because he's rich. This goes back to White Elephant. That's right.

I knew it was all the original wound.

It also goes back to White Elephant. Why am I even going?

Why would I play? Yeah, if everyone's going to be so mad. I got the good gift.

Exactly. Then why even go? And then people are like, oh, she's too good to come to my party. This is bad.

Hold on. I'm going to say for myself. Yeah. You know, yeah. You got a ton of good luck. The one thing that you're not going to be able to do is play the lot. Part of me is like, it feels unjust, but then also like, yeah, it feels... That's okay.

Well, somebody has to win. And if you win and you give most of it away, that's better actually, in theory, for the world than somebody that is going to keep it all.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

Okay, so what is the amount? How much money does someone have to have before they cannot play the lottery?

And what percentage do you have to give away to not be a piece of shit?

And do you have to give away to strangers or friends or what?

I would really want to do something in the foster world.

Yeah, that's great. Okay, so- But are you going to join the pact? Because actually, I feel like you not joining the pact is bad. Oh, really? Yeah, because I feel like that is even more selfish. It's like, I'm not joining your pact. I don't want to give you guys three million each. I'm just in it for myself. You know, see, that's tricky.

I agree. But I might also tip your pact into no shot of winning because the sim and universe are going to be like, You already want... Let You already won the lottery, Bucker.

I know. So did I.

And so there's no way we're letting you win. So do I fuck up your path?

But Eric said that this is a good test of the sim because if one of us wins, then the sim is definitely real. But I said, no, I don't think the sim is that obvious. We are not going to win because it's a sim. And then he said, it's going to go to someone who thinks their life is going to get so much better, like that all their worries are going to go away. They're going to be happy. And then he said, so it might go to Charlie. And then he said, so it was good for you to partner with him.

Charlie did make that clear.

He does think it's going to solve all his problems.

It'll solve a lot of them.

It will solve a lot, but it won't solve the existential ones, and it won't solve loved ones. Yeah.

But I'm coming now more full circle.

Okay.

I'm coming more full circle. What do you mean?

About what?

Well, it's like, yeah, it didn't care my thing. That was my first realization. It didn't care my existential dilemmas. My self-esteem wasn't elevated by it, which I was hoping.

And it shouldn't be.

It shouldn't be, but I thought it would be. To now, I'm in this place of enormous I go, no. In fact, we were just saying this on our trip, talking with Molly and Eric, and it's like, wherever you go, there you are. That seems true. But being in an environment where it's like 136 degrees outside and the wind's blowing sand across your face the whole time, versus being somewhere like Hawaii, where it's just very calming and lush around you. That app, that has to have an impact on you. Yeah. Your environment's definitely- Environment has a huge impact on you. Yeah. So that's part of... But it- Money does make you happier, and that you can be in an environment that you are much calmer and happier in.

Yeah. Money definitely increases happiness. There is no question about that. But it is capped. Oh, yeah. It cannot buy you. I mean, it can buy you people, but those are not real relationships, and those aren't ones that actually fill anyone up. Have any value. Yeah. So at the end of the day, I believe that's the only thing you really need is people in love in those relationships. And money really cannot buy you honest relationships.

You can be awfully miserable with. Yeah.

Yeah.

But if you have a baseline- Yes, of course, it makes your life so much easier.

I mean, and yes and no, Because even like, yeah, you have more money and you buy more things and you owe more money and you stress out about that. And then it's all it's all relative. Because most people aren't smart enough, including me, to have money and then say, I'm just not going to spend it. I'm just going to buy exactly what I need and nothing more.

And let the money abate my fear. Yes.

That's not what we do. We buy more things and have more things that cost more money and require you to have more money.

Yeah. It's a treadmill.

And it's a really fucking awful treadmill. Anyway, but when I win the bill, I think I'll finally feel good.

Will you fly private ever?

No. I mean, if I have to.

Because you're scared.

I don't like it.

Yeah, it scares you.

I mean, if I had to, I would. But that's not how I would spend it. I would definitely spend it on first-class travel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe in Emirates. That was ideal. Safety. I want it for safety. I know, I know. But I want everything for safety, and it doesn't work. It does not work.

Right. You have to... That's what's crazy. You have to decide you're safe. Speaking of which, Man's Search for Meeting. Man's Search for Meeting is one of the most...

Popular books.

Héralded books, always on everyone's top I have recommendation. I was positive I read it. And I'm like, I've forgotten most of it. I'm going to reread it. I don't think I've read it. Oh. How did you like it? I'm just starting, but it's incredible. Oh. And yeah, Here's a man who was a psychologist who was put in Auschwitz. Oh, my God. And his even-sidedness of the experience is so fascinating. And again, how he finds meaning. Yeah. And how you identify yourself. He's talking about how people, since once you got in there, they shaved your head, took all your belongings. And now when you're meeting people, you're free to say you were anybody.

Yeah, it removes your identity.

You could say you were a doctor. Well, you can actually inflate your previous status. But I was like, oh, that's a detail I wouldn't have thought of. People are like, oh, I can say I'm anybody I want now. It's interesting.

That's interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, as we're talking about a billion dollars, it does feel crazy. It feels crazy that there are things happening in the world. There are So many starving people. And then there's a billion dollars someone's going to get. Yeah. Also, where does the California lottery money go?

To, in theory, education. All of these lottery bills that were passed across the country, really in the '80s, I think.

Go to education.

That was the premise. But what percentage goes to education? Well, in Georgia- It funded your college.

That's right. So I feel like I owe the Georgia lottery some money back.

I think they have varying success rates in state to state.

Well, it worked there. I wish they would adopt that here.

Yeah. The casino proposition hasn't really bore the fruit they were hoping. That was also how they sold Casino Casinos in the States. It's going to go to education. In my experience, in some of those casinos, it's like, I think it's more praying on the people who are most broke already. And I don't know. If that's how we get our education, that can't be right. If that's how we fund it.

Okay. Do you think if you win, you should give everyone who contributed to the lottery at least a dollar?

I think logistically, that would cost probably three dollars for every dollar you distributed. Could be costly. I hope I didn't yuck your yummy on your pack.

No, I would love you to join the pack. Okay.

What's the buy in tonight?

We haven't decided yet. We have till Saturday. Saturday is the next straw. Okay. I would like to go back up.

Well, I'm going to want to go up. I know.

Before we're going to play. See, this is going to be tricky because I think now... But it's okay. We'll all put in a pile to the packed. And then I think at this point, people want to do side money. They can do side money. Okay.

Everything's on the table.

But there is going to be a certain amount. My guess is going to be it's $100 If we show up on the next fact, check what outfit should we be wearing.

Like, are we in superhero outfits? Are we in pilgrim outfits? I think we should just have a visual none that just... We don't want to trigger anyone, but if you're watching, it looks like they want a billion dollars because they're both in sailor outfits. Okay. So you can pick.

I'd love to go ballerina. Great.

Yeah. If we're both in full- Two two leotard. Onesies, singlets. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Want to do some faquis? Yeah.

Facks for Alicia. Silverstone. Yes. Now, this is a ding, ding, ding to earlier because Alicia, you'd be surprised. She married someone in a punk band. Yeah. And you'd probably be surprised, except not really when you get to know her.

Once you get to know her, also that her best friend is Woody Harrelson is a surprise. If you're just basing everything on clueless.

Exactly.

There's a lot of surprises that come your way.

I really liked her. I enjoyed her a lot. Me, too. She was so cool, very self-assured. She's been around for so long, obviously, and you could feel it.

Yes. And again, just the gap between who she is and what she got famous is one of the more enormous gaps I've ever witnessed.

I know. It's really fun.

I'm trying to think who else I might put in that category. Oh, I know also- Who? Is Handmaid's Tale.

Elizabeth Moss. Elizabeth Moss. That's so true.

Elizabeth Moss was so fun and playful. And light. And every role is like, she is going through it and she feels so dark and tortured.

It's so true.

Yeah, that's a good one.

That's an actor right there.

That's an acting motherfucker right there.

Yeah. Okay, now, some facts. What show was Rob Loe on when Alicia was on Mismatch because they had to do press together? Right. I found it. It is The Lion's Den. It was in 2003.

Oh, film or show?

Show.

Was he a lion?

It's L-Y-O-N-S.

Oh, okay.

Okay. She mentioned Got commercials, and it was a real throwback for me because I used to collect those ads.

I know.

And I had such a good collection. And your binder. Oh, it's so fun to collect things. Oh, You really got in my head. Ding, ding, ding. So today, today's episode that's out, sorry, not for the listener, go back a couple. We had Amanda on who wrote the book, destroy this house, a memoir, and she talked about hoarding. Yes. So we get into a lot of hoarding in that, which is really wild and interesting.

I feel like I'm suffocating as soon as I think about hoarding.

Yeah. And I think on maybe a fact check after that or something, you said that I'm like, I could be a hoarder, except that I'm good at giving stuff away. That's right. Yeah.

At the rate you collect, it could easily tip, but you're great at expelling.

So I've been in my head about hoarding a little bit.

Okay. Just why you gave my daughter an outfit yesterday?

Yeah. Well, I let her borrow some shoes.

I know.

She needed to borrow some shoes. You're the same size right now. Are you guys the same size shoes? Yeah, that's why she wanted to borrow. Oh, wow. It's really cute for probably only a very short time. So she should borrow as much as she can now.

She should. She should go crazy.

But yeah, I did a huge closet clean out because of the conversation. And the girls came over, all the and they took stuff. And that's always so fun. And then I had to clean out all my vases. I started to feel like, oh, my God, I do. I have so much stuff everywhere. Oh, my God. I asked a few people, but most people said they felt like I was on a hoarder. Okay. Okay. So that was good assurance.

Yeah, I don't think you are. Okay. Yeah, you're not.

I'm just prone to thinking I might have things.

You're a real dichotomy. It's no peer pressure. Can't be convinced if anything might be fun, but you could be convinced you're a man.

Yes, that's right. And then you're a hoarder. A man, a hoarder. Real. I don't really know.

It's dichotomy. Maybe that's why you're so opposed to peer pressure because you know you're a little vulnerable to suggestion.

Maybe. Do you think I could sell my collection of Got Milk ads for $40,000?

I don't. I really don't know. I mean, people collect some bizarre stuff, but I think he might have been one of the few people who had a Got Milk collection. Exactly. I think I actually- I think I actually- Very rare.

I collected them, too. Fuck.

Oh, my God. Maybe it's a millennial thing. What was your favorite one?

I would just take them out of Sports Illustrated.

How many did you have?

Not that many.

I had a lot.

What are the odds I'm sitting with two people who had a got milk collection?

Maybe it's an age thing.

I think it might be whatever the connective tissue is that makes this whole thing work. I think if I had to hire anyone new, I would be like, first question, did you collect Got Milk ads? If they said yes, I'd be like, you're hired.

Rob, did you hang them or did you have them in a binder?

I think I had them ripped out in a binder.

Yeah, that's how you did it. That was the move. Yeah. Now, please look on eBay and see what binders of these are running these days. They're just $15 to buy a print. One print? I could really make some money.

How many do you have?

A lot. No, a lot.

A hundred?

I don't remember. Okay. Next time I'm home.

Okay. Count them.

I thought I brought them back, but maybe I didn't. I have really cool ones, like a Sarah Michelle Geller.

When you finally move into your house, you're going to have to get a U-haul and unload your parents house. I know.

We've talked about that.

I bet you have. I bet they're like, When are you going to unload some of this stuff?

They are TikTok-ing.

Are they going to downsize? No.

They already live in a shack.

They live in a big house.

No, they live in Like a 4,000-square-foot house. Oh, my God. You love square footage.

How else are we going to talk about how big a house is? It's the metric.

They could have gotten a bigger house and never did. So they're happy where they are. Their room is on the first floor, so they- That's key. Yeah, they're good.

That's why I can't die in this house. The stairs.

There's a room and there's a guest. There's a million places where you don't have to do that. I'd have to move out of the master bedroom. You already said you were going to do that anyway right now.

I was thinking about it, yeah. I haven't yet, though.

Okay, that's a good update. Okay, Beverly Hills High Dance Group. It's called Dance Company. Okay. Because she was really close or right. I don't remember. Almost got it. Okay. Best music videos of all time.

Top 100. No, no, no.

It's my birthday. Video kill the Radio Star, 100. Video Kill the Radio. 99. Okay, fine. I'll do top 10.

Thank you. You can do top 20. How does that feel?

Good birthday compromise? No, it's all or nothing. Top 25.

You could do top 25. Really? That's a good one.

I'm going to do top 10. Because it's my birthday, but I like giving gifts to others. Okay, now this is from Rolling Stone. I'm going to go 10 to one.

Okay.

You're going to be mad.

Okay.

But I don't want you to argue this This is Rolling Stone. Yeah. Okay. Number 10, Michael Jackson, Billy Jean.

Great video. Number 9. That's dancing on the tiles that light up.

Oh, yeah. That is a great video. Yeah, great. Number 9, Guns N Roses, November Rain.

Can't remember it. Zeezy Ta better be on here.

8, Peter Gabriel, Sledgehammer.

Sure. Iconic. The dancing models.

7, D'Angelo, Untitled How Does It Feel? He's naked.

Oh, sure. Yeah, he's got great obliques.

6, Beasty Boys, Sabotage.

Yeah, incredible. Directed by her director.

Oh, Spike Jones?

Spike Jones.

Really? Yeah.

Great video.

Okay, five is New Order: The Perfect Kiss.

Oh, wow. I loved New Order, and I don't know that video.

It's not ringing any bells.

Oh. I got to watch it. That's part of My Homework Now.

Great. Four, Childish Gambino, This is America.

What a video. Incredible. What a video.

Oh, look at him.

Oh, yeah. I love him. So sexy.

Three, Madonna Vogue.

Yes. You got to have that in there.

Two, Johnny Cash, Hurt.

I wouldn't put it there, but I do love that song, and it's a cool video.

Number one, Beyoncé, Formation. Okay, you're mad. I know. I already know you're mad. I told you you'd be mad.

Just can't believe thriller is not going on.

I know. You're upset about that.

I think that thing had a budget bigger than a Hollywood movie.

Let me look to see where it is. It's got to be on here somewhere. Eleven is George Michael Freedom. Yeah, that's what that holds. That's big. That has the supermodels in it. Yeah. Beyoncé's Single Ladies.

There's a theme here. You put supermodels in your video, and that's going to make the top.

Nirvana, Take on me, White Stripes.

That's my current obsession right now. I'm so obsessed with Jack White. I can't stop. I'm reading about him nonstop.

I really want to have him on. Okay, Kiss is on here. Duh. 18, though. You're not going to... I'm at 20.

That's crazy.

Oh, 99 Problems, 23. That's a classic.

Okay.

25. Oh, my God.

Something wrong here. They forgot about it somehow.

California Love. Great one.

Or maybe they're protesting Michael Jackson.

Maybe.

No, no. Billy Jean was At 10. At 10. But maybe they felt dicey about putting him at number one.

But they would still include him in- No one's going to put The Cosby Show as the top five comedy of all time, and it is. It is, yeah.

Thousand %. But it would never make a top 10. No, but-sit comes of all time.

He made the top 10, so we can't say that. They just didn't. I know. They picked Billy Jean. Brittany Spears' Baby One More Time. That should be five. It's 30. All right. Well, I'm sorry to tell you.

That's crazy. Yeah, that's really something. Write in the comments if you think if you're outraged by that.

Okay. When did Liv Tyler find out Steven Tyler was her dad?

Great question.

She was 11. Okay. At an Aerosmith concert in August 1988, her mother brought her to the show and revealed the truth, which Liv had suspected after noticing her resemblance to Steven. Yeah. She confirmed the paternity through a test around age 11 or 12 and publicly changed her surname to Tyler when she was 11 or 12 as well.

Yeah. So I had it pretty right.

Yeah. Flopy trunk syndrome. Very bad.

It just feels so synonymous with erectile dysfunction.

I know, but it's not. It's a condition affecting African elephants, where their trunks become paralyzed or severely weakened, hindering their ability to eat, drink, and communicate. That's really sad. I know.

There's some weird fact about how many muscles they have in their trunk, and it's an insane amount.

Really?

40,000. 40,000 muscles in that trunk.

It says, This makes it one of the most muscular structures in the animal kingdom. Yeah, great. I love elephants.

I love them the most.

No, I love them the most.

Okay. I love them second most.

You can't love them the most because you love primates the most. I'm always teaching you about most.

I know. Man. And best. Yeah.

Okay. I do want to say people are going to notice this, probably, and don't comment. She said Mary J. Blyth. I kept it because it was... Normally, that's something I would cut because she didn't mean to say that. She meant to say Mary J. Blyth. But it was uncuttable because it was important for the story. And for me, I was like, it's just telling because she sounds like, I don't know anyone. And the whole point is that she didn't know Mary J. She was talking about the animals. And so it was actually in keeping with her sweetness.

Yes.

But it is Mary J. Blige.

Yeah.

When did Marvel start, and when was that in the timeline of the Batman movie? Iron Man, 2008, can claim the banner as the first of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, 2008.

Yeah.

John Favre. Batman was '97. All right, that's it.

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