Transcript of The After Show: Help Dale Find Dee New

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Hi, everybody. Welcome to 20/20: The Aftershow. I'm Deborah Roberts, and it's good to have you with us. As always, we're gonna take you behind the scenes and do a deeper look at one of our most recent 20/20 episodes called Help Dale Find Dee. And we're gonna also take a deeper look at the people at the heart of the story, the things that we don't always get a chance to show you on Friday night. So today we're going inside the story of Dee Warner, a mom and a successful businesswoman in rural Michigan who vanished without a trace from her family farm where she had lived with her husband and their 9-year-old daughter. Well, oddly, her cars were still parked in the driveway. Her wedding ring was left behind on a desk in her husband's office. So understandably, people were wondering, why would she just pack up and walk away from what seemed to be a pretty happy life from the outside looking in? Well, this story was absolutely heartbreaking and utterly captivating too at the same time. in large part because of the talented journalist who brought it to us. You know her from her years of reporting here at ABC.

She's the anchor of ABC News Live Prime and World News Sunday. She's a colleague and a friend. Linsey Davis is joining us for the first time on our podcast. Linsey.

Thank you for having me.

And boy, you cleaned up beautifully.

Oh, I knew I was sitting down with you.

You always do. You always do. But it's great to have you and for us to get a chance to chat. Full disclosure, you and I are friends outside of the office. We see each other a lot and we're always passing each other in the hallway. maybe giving snippets of what we're working on, but this is the first time you've done a story for us for 2020.

And I'm so glad because, as you know, the news cycle is so fast and furious. And so normally I'm just doing kind of like, what is the day of? And then we're moving on to the next thing the next day. And as you described, this is a deeper dive. 2020 allows you to take that time and linger a little longer and really get to know the characters and really understand and, and a curious mind like we both have, and, you know, kind of peering behind and peeling back the onion, um, it's really a great opportunity.

Well, I want to talk about the story, but first I want to talk about you because some people here may not necessarily know you. You report on politics. You report on, as you said, day of on your, your nightly show. Um, tell us a little bit about your passion. I mean, I know you had a similar, I think, rise in the business as I did.

Sure.

Worked in local news and made your way to ABC. So Talk a little bit about your passion for this business.

Sure. So when I was third year in college, I just kind of had this epiphany that that's what I want to do. I was in Spain watching the news in Spanish. I should have understood much better than I did, but it was kind of like, uh, you know, Charlie Brown's mom, wah, wah, wah, wah. And I just, it, it really actually sharpened the moment for me because I wasn't listening. I was just really tuned in to the idea, the craft. And in that moment, because I really, I thought I was gonna be a psychologist, there were so many other things. And in that moment I thought, I'm naturally a curious person. I like to ask questions. I'd love to write. I like public speaking. And it just kind of felt like they all blended together so perfectly as a journalist. And I'm not great at math, so.

I think a lot of journalists have actually made that declaration. Well, this story, and of course this is the first time you've kind of delved into true crime. You do so many other stories sometimes that touch on this. But it is sort of interesting to me, you know, we cover these stories weekly. And many times there are women at the center of these crimes, sadly.

Yes.

And in this case, there is a woman. And women are very attracted to these stories too. So let's talk about Dee Warner, a mom. And you and I were talking about this. I happened to pass you yesterday. And we were talking about her, a 52-year-old woman, a mom. They had— she and her husband Dale had kind of a blended family, right? He had kids. She had kids. They were mostly grown when this happened, and they had a 9-year-old together.

Yes.

So give me your sense of your— this is rural Michigan. You go out, you're going to meet some of the family and friends. What was your take initially?

So, well, first, when it was brought to me, when the EP of 20/20, Janice Johnson, and Joseph, they came into the office and they were telling me the background, and without knowing the conclusion. So it's— you have these 2 families that were big, prominent, farm families in Michigan. They were kind of rivals. And then they're having an affair and end up leaving their spouses, marrying each other, bringing those blended families together. And then, as you say, they have the, the 9-year-old daughter together. But it was, it was really like a whodunit.

Mm-hmm.

Because there were so many, she had gotten into an argument with one of her employees at the trucking company. Her husband is saying, Well, look, you know, she was feeling kind of dark and going down a rabbit hole of like, maybe nobody will care if I'm here. She has all these medications because she had migraine headaches. So he's opening up the cabinets for police. And so it was before I knew the end, I was thinking there were a number of people. The husband's also talking about a burner phone and maybe she had, you know, an affair.

Mm-hmm.

And so it really was the classic, whodunit. And again, just being able to travel and meet with— I was able to interview one of her daughters. And it was just fascinating to, even though this story had already concluded, for the most part, just going back in time to walking through the paces of, for example, the day that she first went missing.

Yeah. And let's talk about that too. So you set the scene of her being, you know, these two having this kind of complicated relationship and drama in the town. But they are together, presumably doing very well. And you described her as like this really, you know, big businesswoman. I mean, she's doing what a lot of women do, kind of a universal story. She's juggling a lot of different things. They've got a farm. She's got a trucking company that basically she runs.

Exactly. And so she's really this woman kind of in a man's world, if you will, in the trucking company, in the farming industry. But it turns out that the farms weren't really the lucrative aspect. It was the trucking company that was in her name. And so while they had kind of built this empire together, and for all intents and purposes, when you're looking, when you drive up, we're in rural Tipton, Michigan. And when you get there, it's really just, you know, farmland and cattle.

Flat.

Right. So they have this million-dollar home that really sticks out. She's got, you know, a Hummer, all these fancy cars that even though Her office and home are just really a few yards away. She's driving this big Hummer from one place to the other. She always has her nails done, her makeup done, her hair. She's really fancy. Not what you would typically think.

She's not a farm wife.

Not exactly. And so big personality, feisty. Even her children describe her as being a really Bombastic kind of person.

Let's go back to April 25th, 2021. So she's missing. She and her daughter Raquel typically have what, Sunday breakfast or something together. Raquel comes to the house and her mother's missing.

Her mother's missing, which she initially right off the bat thinks this is strange. So she's texting her mother, she's calling her mother, and she said that her mom is the kind of person who is always going to answer the phone. No matter what the circumstances. So right away, she's thinking, something is off here. They, though, continue and make the breakfast. She's asking Dale, where is Dee? Where's my mom? Oh, I don't know. You know, I left. I've been out on the farm. Not sure. But he doesn't seem worried about it—

Mm.

As her daughter is. And as they continue, you know, the kids are calling each other. Have you heard from— From mom, nobody's heard from her. You know, it's getting wider in the family. Her brother gets involved. And what's kind of concerning all of them is that Dale doesn't seem worried.

That concern. Hmm. He said that maybe they had had, you know, they have fights and maybe she had decided to go and storm off. What did you learn about their relationship, though? You said that these two had, you know, left their spouses. They're together, presumably now they're happy, but they had a pretty tumultuous relationship, you reported in the piece.

So Raquel, her, her daughter who I interviewed, said that her mom had told her that this was the night she was going to confront Dale and say the marriage is over.

Ah.

And so it gets to the point where she actually had planned it, where her 9-year-old daughter, she has her stay somewhere else because she's anticipating it's gonna be a big fight.

Well, he told investigators that it was just a little argument. And let's take a listen to what he told the police when they questioned him at the farm the day after. Dee went missing.

All right, so you're just basically saying drag our feet, she's going to turn up. As what kind of— you're saying you don't expect foul play? No, I mean, I don't want to get— her kids are going around, yeah, you know, getting excited, which that's fine, it's her mom, right? But she's done this before. I mean, I don't want to get everybody all worked up and excited for when she shows up tomorrow. Well, the flags that I'm seeing aren't the ones that are scaring me as far as anything other than, I mean, she left the ring here. I mean, that's a You know, a big one. She took some money cash. I mean, our daughter's the biggest one. Right, right. Absolutely. You know, I just want her to come home.

Now, what did you make of this? Now, you jump into this story, and one of the things that's so, I think, intriguing about this podcast is we get a chance to talk a little bit more than we did in the piece. What was your take on this whole notion when you got there? The idea that he would say she just disappeared. I mean, you knew ultimately what happened, but did that make sense to you?

Well, I have to say, in the police body camera footage, he seems cool as a cucumber.

Mm-hmm.

He's welcomed them on the property. He's willing to answer the questions. He seems just so casual. His behavior, his body language doesn't seem suspicious.

Mm-hmm.

He does lead on to the fact that Dee had a burner phone, you know, and this was not unusual for her to disappear. And that's behavior that her family did back up. Um, and so it— he seemed very credible, I have to say. And I'm a suspicious person, and even knowing at that point what I knew, but I thought, wow, he handled that very well, really well.

Which is why police weren't that alarmed in the very beginning by hearing his story. What was interesting is that we heard something, uh, you— when you talked to Raquel That we've heard in a lot of these episodes that we've done when a woman is having some problems in her marriage, where she tells someone, and in this case, Raquel says she told you that she watched true crime shows. And she actually said something that was kind of chilling. If something happens to me, possibly Dale is capable of this.

She told her daughter, because this was something that she enjoyed watching, like millions of Americans. She said, I could see Dale doing something like that.

Wow.

And that was something that obviously, as it would for anybody, stuck in her daughter's head, that her mother felt that this was possible for her stepfather to take her life. And furthermore, Dee's brother finds it so disconcerting that Dale is not actively looking for his sister, for Dee, And so he takes out a billboard, a huge billboard in Tipton, Michigan that says, help Dale find Dee.

That is—

Basically saying, Dale, why aren't you doing enough to— doing anything to try to find your wife?

Essentially calls him out on it. Well, the family does take matters into their own hands. And don't go anywhere because that is a key point. We're going to talk about that. The mystery of Dee's disappearance goes on for more than a year. The family does take matters into their own hands. And we're going to get into how they did that and the questions that began to surround Dale after we take a quick break. We're going to hear more of Lindsay's interview with her daughter, Dee's daughter, Raquel. So don't go anywhere.

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Hey, welcome back to 20/20: The After Show. I'm here with my colleague Lindsay Davis, who investigated our most recent 2020 episode called Help Dale Find Dee. It's the story of a Michigan mom and businesswoman, Dee Warner, and her disappearance. And Lindsay's been filling us in on the details of the family and their life. You talked about how she was thinking of leaving her husband, which is pretty big stuff. Did he know that she was thinking of it?

It's not clear that he knew prior to that. Clearly, they had a tumultuous marriage and relationship.

Things weren't great.

Things weren't great. And so this seems that that particular night, things were coming to a head. Now, why this is a particular concern potentially for Dale, in addition to the fact that he may have loved his wife, is the money. Because she ran the trucking company.

She controlled the bulk of the money.

The trucking company was the moneymaker. So now if they split up, he's gonna lose the money.

Yeah. And that is, uh, well, a key factor if somebody is worried about, right, his wife, his wife leaving him. Well, the marriage was described, as you said, as volatile. There were no incidents of domestic violence reported to police, but her friend Stephanie, Dee's friend, actually did talk to 20/20 about their relationship. Let's take a listen.

They were in an argument in her bedroom and he got upset and pushed her and she fell and hit her It was the next morning she came in and showed me the goosebump on her head. I just remember distinctly asking her, like, Dee, why is this okay?

So her friends were concerned. Um, clearly this was a relationship that was troubled, and there were allegations that he actually put a tracking device on her car.

So Raquel tells me that her mother had come to her and said, you know, I feel like Dale is following me. And so they take a look at her car. Um, there is a, a tracking device when they take the car into the mechanic. But Dale said, oh, I was just trying to figure out something with the car. I wasn't, I wasn't trying to, to track her.

Well, your interviews were so compelling. And as I said, you spoke with Raquel, her daughter. You had a chance to really hear her side of the story. And there were parts of your interview, which is one of the things we like to share with you here on the podcast. There were things that we didn't get to hear on Friday night. So let's hear a little bit more of your interview with Raquel that talked about how Dale could possibly have a hand in this. Let's take a listen.

Was he doing anything to try to find your mom?

No. The only— I really don't think he has— he did anything at all to find her. I don't think he even called the hospitals. I don't think he— he did not show up to the searches on foot. I mean, he didn't call the law enforcement. And even when the law enforcement showed up to talk to him about her being reported missing, he still was like, I don't think she's missing. I mean, it was never— He was never concerned? Urgent to find her at all.

This is a small town. Were there signs? Was there an active buzz in the community about, where's Dee Warner?

Yes. So we had Justice for Dee signs made, and people bought them. People donated for them. Everywhere. I mean, there were yellow signs saying Justice for Dee everywhere. We had wristbands for Justice for Dee. And we had pens. We had— I mean, we just— anything we could do to shout from the rooftops of, like, we need help from our community, we did.

And Dale was not part of that?

No. There was actually a sign put in his yard, and he He took it immediately.

Took it down?

Yes.

So those signs, people calling for justice for Dee, there were iPad searches. I mean, this thing was starting to get a little bit more— the cloud of suspicion is sort of hanging around Dale a little bit.

In fact, just weeks after her disappearance, later on, detectives were able to find that Dale had searched for, how do you bury 1,000 gallon propane tank. And so that's why investigators are under the belief that she's buried underground somewhere.

Wow. So the idea that this woman is missing, and it's so fascinating to us, she's missing, nobody's found a body. Uh, 2 years go by, 2 years go by, Dee's still missing. And, you know, there's suspicion, there's circulation of, you know, of all of these rumors, but Police ultimately look at Dale, right? And in November of 2023, they arrest him. They actually charge him with murder.

Without a body.

Without a body, which is so intriguing, and tampering with evidence, which is pretty remarkable for them to make an arrest without a body. And we've done many stories here on 20/20 where this happens, but ultimately, they just could not ignore the fact that this seems so suspicious.

And there's something in Michigan, it often happens in particular, where open murder where the prosecutors don't necessarily have the first degree or second degree. You're able to let the jury decide. But it wasn't until, you know, a good amount of time, I believe a year later, that they found Dee's body. And so at that point, it was a pretty open and closed case.

And they call it open murder.

Right.

So that's the way they were able to do this. And this is, I mean, obviously for the family, this had to just be heart-wrenching too. I mean, looking inside your family, it's bad enough that they sort of— some of the family members suspected this. But to actually see that Dale is being charged with Dee's murder had to be just wrenching.

And Raquel talks about just how she was on pins and needles, hoping that he would be found guilty, hoping that he would be arrested, hoping that he would be convicted. And so as you mentioned, years are going in between from the mom's disappearance to him actually being arrested, to him actually being found guilty of murder, which just happened recently. And they described this as such a relief. In fact, she had been holding off getting married because she just wanted some closure first with her mom.

Yeah. Which is, you know, understandable. So he, the years go by, and that was what was so, I think, just so captivating, but also so Oddly, tragically compelling in this story. They don't find the body, but then ultimately they do go to a fertilizer tank. They cut it open, and they find Dee's body, which for the family, on the one hand, there's relief. On the other hand, there's a horrible conclusion.

A horrible conclusion. And Raquel, even though this had happened, you know, back in 2021, when we're talking to her now, you know, more than 5 years later, she had just kind of asked and answered because this is something she had been going through for so long. But there was just a moment when we talk about, at the end, what she misses about her mom and having this closure where she finally does, you know, just break down. And that emotion comes through because it's been so prolonged and so— dragged out for such a long time where you're just waiting to find out. And this is going back to, as you talked about earlier, she had said her mom had given her that kind of warning, that she had that premonition when she was watching the true crime show that Dale could do this to me.

And the way her body was found too, the medical examiner said her mouth had been taped shut.

Taped shut.

And she'd been strangled.

Which An investigator didn't say this, but the idea that her mouth was taped shut, it, you can anticipate that there was a, a torment in her death, right? And so that he was just trying to keep her quiet so that she wouldn't rouse anybody.

Mm-hmm.

Or, or, or draw any attention to this. And it just adds to the, the pain of it all that it was so brutal.

It was brutal. And Lindsay, I have to tell you, I mean, I, even as we sit here and talk about it now, we've seen your report. Many people have seen it. Some may be seeing it now for the first time after this podcast. But as a reporter, you know, we often sit down and we're talking to people about the worst days of their lives. And I've talked to people like this where the mom and the daughter had a bond and something happened like this. How, how is she doing, Raquel, and the rest of the family today?

So Raquel got engaged. And after all of this was the closure that they've been looking for for years. And her fiancé, put her mom's birthstone in the engagement ring.

How sweet.

Which she felt was just so special. And she said that it had been so important for her mom for her to get married.

Mm-hmm.

And so she is, it's still heavy.

Of course.

This is something that she'll, they'll never be the same. Um, but, but she is, is moving forward, which, you know, her mom would obviously want.

Which is, yeah, which is important. And I'm sure her mom would've, but families destroyed. And you think about that. That young daughter who now has lost her mom and now lost her father, essentially.

Lost her father, right.

Well, you know, Lindsay, you brought such depth and such, you know, a personal touch to this story. And you really do feel it for this family. As I said, and we said earlier, this is a universal story. We hear it often about women who are in these dire situations and many times trying to get themselves out of it. And it becomes very difficult.

Yes.

And psychologists point out that the most dangerous time for a victim is when they're about to actively leave somebody. So when we come back, and I think this is so important, Lindsay, don't go anywhere, and don't you go anywhere, because we're going to talk to an emergency room psychiatrist about how to safely leave a volatile relationship and the resources that actually are out there that could keep you or someone you love safe. So stay with us.

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Welcome back to 20/20: The After Show. I'm sitting here with Lindsay Davis, who brought our most recent 20/20 episode called Help Dale Find Dee, which centered around the disappearance of Dee Warner, a Michigan business owner and mom who ultimately was found dead, and her husband was actually convicted. of her death? Well, friends and family said that she was about to leave her marriage, and according to the National Domestic Abuse Hotline, exiting a relationship is the most unsafe time for a victim, typically a woman. And on average, it takes a victim 7 times to leave before they actually stay away for good. So we want to talk a little bit more about that and leave you with something that you might be able to use in case you know of somebody who might be in a situation. So joining us now is emergency room psychiatrist, Dr. Adjoa Smalls-Monte, who has been with us a few times before. Doctor, welcome.

Thank you. Good to see you again.

Good to have you. Well, Lindsay reported on this story, and, you know, for a lot of people, this is something that they recognize, and you're right there on the front lines. You've seen these kinds of incidents where women are about to leave. Give us some ideas here about how they can avoid the danger In this difficult situation?

A lot of the danger comes from, like you said, when you're about to leave, and that's because the perpetrator is about to lose control. And abuse is all about control. When they feel like they're about to lose it, they want to rein you back in. They're going to try to monitor you. They're going to try to control you. And when they feel like they have lost control, when you might have left, then they feel like there's no need to have any more restraint. They've already lost the game, so why try to be on their best behavior? And even when someone has left and you think that you're okay and you're safe, sometimes there can be prolonged separations, a long process, especially if children are involved. There can be custody hearings, there can be court dates, things where you are meeting at predicted times. And so that gives many opportunities for someone to maybe plan to do something that can be dangerous.

And many people, I think many of us are guilty of saying, why doesn't she just Why didn't you just leave, right? But for those who ask that question, what are they misunderstanding about abusive relationships?

When you're saying why didn't someone just leave, you're assuming a lot of things, that the person that is still in an abusive relationship has freedom and that there is no risk. And that's not the case in an abusive relationship. There's a lack of freedom because there might be constrained resources. You may not have the money, you may not have the transportation, a place to stay. You can have responsibilities, whether there are kids involved, you can have pets. You may not even psychologically be aware that you are being abused. And then there can be a lot of things that might keep a person there because they are worried about social isolation. They may not find another partner, religious reasons. And also, you're assuming that they haven't tried. And like you said, sometimes people have tried 7 times to get away.

Mm-hmm.

So what behaviors should people be thinking about that might be a tip-off that this could really end in something volatile and dangerous and violent?

If you see someone starting to escalate their control over you or over someone that you are concerned is in an abusive relationship, that's a definite tip-off. And that control can look like they're following someone, they're tracking someone, they're maybe popping up at places where the person is known to be. They could be monitoring your finances or phones. They're Searching your social media, your searches. They might increase their violence against you, then apologize and try to rein you back in. They might also try to isolate you from people that could be of help.

The key word is control here.

And you talked about that isolation because we see that, that's like a textbook scenario. What should family members do or friends do who are concerned that they're witnessing this with a loved one?

The first thing is to have an open conversation with that person. Make sure you're choosing a safe time to approach someone where you have a little bit of time to really explore this subject. And it's not just, I think this is happening to you. How are you doing? Just open it up like that. See what they're giving to you. And then you can say, I noticed this. Is this happening? The person might confirm it. They might deny it. I have had many patients that deny something is happening.

Hmm.

Even though it is Very clear. And they're scared of, this person said if I tell someone they're going to do something even worse to me.

And resources. So what's available out there to help people who may not feel that they have the opportunity to get out?

So if you're trying to plan a getaway, there are certain resources like the National Domestic Violence Hotline that can help you plan. There's also Safe Horizon, which is the largest domestic violence and victim services agency in the country that can help you plan, that can help you find domestic violence shelters. A lot of cities and states also have victim services departments, like there's one in New York State and D.C., and they can offer officers that can help you leave a place, get to a safe place. But if you are in an emergency, I want you to get away ASAP. You can go to a police department, you can call 911, You can go to the hospital. We all get sick at any time. You can go there and a doctor has to examine you privately. That is a way that you can get away as well. But you just— if you are in mortal danger, get away.

So important. Get away. Well, Dr. Smalls-Monte and Lindsay, so great to have you with us. Thank you so much. And thank you to our listeners for choosing to spend your time with us. And of course, if you're experiencing abuse, you can get help by reaching out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline, as you heard here, For confidential support 24/7, 365 days a year. They can be reached at 1-800-799-7233. And of course, you can find us, 20/20, on Friday nights on ABC, and you can stream episodes like this one anytime on Disney+ and Hulu. Good to see you, and thanks so much for being here. Take care. Thank you.

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