Transcript of Heist at the Louvre Episode 3: The Suspects

Hi, this is James Longman, back with another episode of the latest true crime series from ABC Audio and 20/20, Heist at the Louver. Remember, you can listen to the entire series ad-free and access so much more from 20/20 on Apple Podcasts when you subscribe to 20/20 True Crime Plus. Just click the link in the description to start your free trial today. Terms apply. And now, here's the episode. Last October's brazen daytime heist at the Louver was shocking. Now, nearly a year out, there are still critical questions to be answered. Where did they go? And second, where did they come from? In this series, I'll take you inside the events of that day like you've never heard them before, through the eyes of the people who lived them. On the pavements, I saw something shiny. You did see the crown?

Yes, exactly.

Heist at the Louver, a new series from ABC Audio, available now ad-free on Amazon Music. When you think of Paris for a vacation spot, I bet you're thinking croissants, cute cafés, and walks by the Seine— maybe with an accordion playing. If you've been, you might have stayed in a charming little hotel in the Latin Quarter, or a rental apartment in Montmartre, high in an attic overlooking cobbled streets. These pretty areas of Paris, the arrondissements, are circled by a kind of beltway, and these arrondissements are increasingly kind of just for tourists. It's outside of that beltway where most regular Parisians live. And there's a name for these areas: the banlieue. The word translates to suburbs, but over time, it's come to mean something else. 100 years ago, factories were built on the edge of Paris. Communities grew around them. Then, in the 1960s, some of the suburbs saw low-income housing spring up. high-rises and estates. These areas were more accessible for new immigrants arriving from France's former colonies— countries like Algeria, Tunisia or Morocco. But then factories closed, unemployment crept in, poverty rose. These areas now have a high crime rate and they've become a political talking point.

One of these banlieues, the 93rd district, is perhaps the most infamous. It had its share of bad press when riots broke out there in 2017. And after the Louver heist, it had a little more. 10 days after the heist, the lead prosecutor in charge of the case held a press conference. She said investigators had arrested 2 men for their suspected involvement in the Louver heist, and both of them were from that infamous 93rd district. As I speak, the lead prosecutor told the press, the jewels are not yet in our possession. And she had a warning for anyone who might know where they were. Anyone who buys these jewels, she said, would be guilty of a crime: receiving stolen goods. And then she looked right into the camera. like she was addressing someone directly, and said, there is still time to return them. 4 men had been seen robbing the Louver. The prosecutor said she had 2 of them in custody. And then, just a few hours after this press conference, another man was arrested too. From statements by the prosecutor, I learned that all 3 of the men had some link to Aubervilliers, a town in that 93rd district.

So that is where I went. We're a long way from the golden halls of the Louver, but this theft has reached every corner of France. It was a week after the prosecutor's press conference, and while the 3 arrested suspects were in custody, no further details of the investigation would be made public. But I wanted to find out who these suspects were, what they were like, and of course, if they did it. So I went looking for the people who knew them. And I found them. We've come to this park to speak to a family member of one of the suspects. They're very, very nervous to speak to anyone. From ABC Audio, I'm James Longman. This is Heist at the Louver, episode 3, The Suspects. In her press conference, the prosecutor gave some details about the first 2 men arrested. The first, she said, was 34, an Algerian national who'd been living in Aubervilliers for over a decade. He was arrested at Charles de Gaulle Airport, allegedly with a one-way ticket booked to Algeria. The prosecutor said his DNA had been found on a scooter believed to have been used by the thieves to escape. The second man arrested was 39, with, the prosecutor said, previous convictions for aggravated theft, and she said his DNA was found on the smashed display cases.

So these 2 men, the prosecutor alleged, are the ones seen on the CCTV footage from inside the Apollo gallery— the ones who grabbed the jewels out of the cases. The 3rd suspect arrested was also in his 30s and also from Aubervilliers. A suspected 4th man was still at large. French prosecutors hadn't released details about the arrested men's identities, but news had quickly spread of who they were. Which is how I ended up in an outdoor gym in Aubervilliers on a chilly evening in early November.

Okay.

Imagine Venice Beach, but much colder. The gym was lit by bright LED streetlights, and it was packed with big, muscle-bound men. Rap and hip-hop was blaring. And then in the middle of all of this was Mehdi.

Salut.

James. Mehdi. Now, I said that I was meeting a family member of one of the suspects there, but it's a little bit more complicated than that. Mehdi and the suspect have very similar backgrounds. Both of their families come from West Africa. They're not blood relatives per se, but they're close, very close. And Mehdi says that they consider each other family. In the gym, Mehdi just looked cool. He was dressed all in black with this low cap which was covering his eyes, and he had a big smile on his face. I told him I wanted to know more about his friend. We're not going to use his real name since his identity hasn't been made public by French authorities. Mehdi told me that his friend was like a big brother to him growing up in the 93rd, and that he was a dirt bike enthusiast who used to pull wheelies in Paris streets. And that's why we're going to call this suspect Motorbike. Mehdi describes this guy as someone who loves speed, thrills, and adrenaline. But he also says he's respectful, humble. He calls him a family man. Mehdi told me that Motorbike had kids and that he would bring them to this park right where we were standing.

He also described him as someone without a steady income, someone who did odd jobs. petits boulots, odd jobs, to try and make ends meet. Mehdi was painting a picture of a person who seemed really quite like the neighborhood we were standing in— vibrant and engaging, but also a little down on his luck. I asked Mehdi why he thought Motorbike had been arrested. He said, That's a good question. Mehdi told me that we shouldn't be making judgments before a trial has happened and that Motorbike should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. He'd heard that investigators had found Motorbike's DNA, but he also seemed skeptical about it. I read the news just like you, he said. The feeling I got from Mehdi was that he wanted me to know 2 things. The first was that The theft had kind of annoyed him. He said the whole thing had hurt him as an art lover and as a Frenchman. It's bad for my French heritage, he told me. It's the history of Napoleon. The second thing was that he clearly had a high opinion of Motorbike. He described him as a hero of his, someone he looked up to and that he seemed protective of.

I wanted to know what he made of the charges his friend faced. But when I asked him about Motorbike's DNA being found at the crime scene, he quickly redirected me. He said the real question should be about the lack of security at the Louver itself. He'd also noticed that the Apollo Gallery, where so many priceless jewels were displayed, only had a few security cameras. But out here in Aubervilliers, it's the opposite. He's making a very good point that they are very heavily watched everywhere. There are cameras all around us here. But there don't seem to be the right cameras in the right places in the Louver. I mean, he's not wrong. There is an irony to how many cameras were watching the housing estates and how few were watching the jewels. In fact, it is clear to me that this heist has reignited a lot of old arguments in the press about the suburbs and the people who live there. As details of the Louver heist trickled out, it became apparent all the suspects had ties to immigrant communities. Some right-wing commentators claimed that the heist happened because of immigration. A right-wing politician, Éric Zemmour, posted on X the day after the first arrests.

Immigration is stealing our crown jewels, he said. In short, our civilization. The whole thing had become a political scandal, with many public figures calling for more protection of historic artifacts. Standing in front of Mehdi at that outdoor gym in Aubervilliers, I wondered if Mehdi may have had feelings about the heist and motorbike that were caught up in a much bigger conflict about who owned French heritage and who had a right to feel upset about the theft. I'm saying to him, I'm getting conflicting feelings from being around these guys. They're saying, on the one hand, they feel this theft. These jewels belong to them as much as they do to anyone living in the nice parts of Paris. But at the same time, I say to him, he's smiling a little bit. Mehdi clarified. He was smiling not because he didn't think the theft was serious. It was from mistrust about how it was being reported. I smile because I'm not being told everything, he said. He just didn't believe he was getting the full picture from what had been reported, and he felt Motorbike had been demonized in the press. As I got ready to leave, Mehdi asked me to come back again soon.

Merci, les gars.

Merci.

Bonne soirée. Back then, in early November 2025, authorities had arrested 3 men who they said were at the Louver on the day of the robbery. But what about the alleged 4th member of this group? It would take investigators a little while longer to arrest him. But in late November of 2025, that's exactly what they did.

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If anyone wanted to commit a murder, up here would be the greatest place in the world to hide the body. But someone will find it.

He acted friendly. He talked friendly. He sounded friendly. They all knew that I did the scary boogie stuff. And they said, maybe she'll find out where this girl is.

I saw him violent.

Backhanded her.

Pow!

And that's exactly what made us all think he had something to do with it.

The clock is ticking down and the woods are calling. There are a lot of demons in Putnam County, but I've met the devil and he's real. I'm Paul Solotaroff, and this is season 2 of The Devil's Quarry. Listen to The Devil's Quarry season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear The Devil's Quarry season 2 ad-free with exclusive content, Subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

A few months after meeting Mehdi in the park, in the spring of 2026, I went back to Paris, and I still had questions. I wanted to know what the suspects themselves had to say about the charges they faced, and obviously, that wasn't going to be easy with all 4 of them behind bars. But I knew there was someone they were still speaking to— their lawyers. So that is who I reached out to next. First, I talked to the lawyer of the man who'd allegedly tried to flee to Algeria, and we'll call this man Airport. Interestingly, this lawyer told me that Airport had admitted to the crime. He'd confirmed being inside the Apollo Gallery, smashing the cases, and grabbing the jewels. She said he actually apologized to, quote, all of France for what he'd done. But as for further details about the investigation, she couldn't say much more. And if we can lean forward just so that you're— because the room is—

Yeah.

Do you want to close the door?

Yes, please.

This is the second lawyer I spoke to. She represents a different suspect, and she had a lot more to say. I met her on a pretty little street near the Champs-Élysées, in an office a few stories up.

I'm Meinya Arab-Tigrine. I'm a lawyer in Paris. Uh, I practice criminal law, and I am the defensor of, uh, in the Louver case.

Meinya's client was the last man arrested. So, let's just go through the 4 men and what we're calling them. There's Motorbike and Airport. These are the first men in custody. Then there's a 3rd man who we don't know too much about, so we're just gonna call him Mr. Unknown. And then there's Meinya's client, and we're gonna call him him Gas Man since, at the time of his arrest, she says he was working as a gas technician on construction sites. I asked Meunier if she remembered hearing about the heist back in October 2025. What was your first reaction, your first emotional response?

How can it be possible? I'm pretty sure that all the citizens in France was just shocked by the situation and the vulnerability of the Louver.

She said the French citizen in her was stunned, but the lawyer in her? Surprised.

Interested. And I really wanted to know who was able to do it in terms of— in French we say culot.

Yeah, who had the guts.

The guts. Who had the guts.

And did you think, I wonder who did it, and I wonder if that person might need a lawyer?

Yes, of course. All the lawyer friends, for sure.

When the arrests were made of the first 3 Louver suspects, Menia didn't hear anything. But then, about a month later, she got a call. It woke her up at 6 AM.

The policeman told me, can you come? And I was like, yeah, later in the day, let me just wake up. And he was like, it's the Louver. So I said, I'm coming right now.

Wow.

It was November 25th, 5 weeks after the heist. And according to Meunier, Gassmann had just been arrested in a small town 200 miles from Paris called Laval. And Meunier got the call saying he wanted her to be his lawyer. She said they'd worked together before. She'd defended him in a different case. Can you tell me what that case was for?

Um, do you know what is proxenetism?

Proxenetism— making money from prostitution. According to the prosecutor's office, he also had previous charges for receiving stolen goods and for driving without a license. Now, Meijer's used to defending people at the center of big public stories. One of her previous clients was a man convicted of terrorist murder for his role in a Belgian mass killing in 2016. Persona non grata? Not a problem for Meunier. And in fact, that is what seems to motivate her. A belief in pure justice where everyone gets a fair hearing. And what worries her about this case is that all this attention might make it harder for her client to get that. So, can you tell us about him?

He was born, um, in the suburb of Paris. In the—

Meunier's client, just like the other suspects, also had links to the 93rd district. And according to Maignat, Gassman was implicated in the Louver case because of his presence at a parking garage in Aubervilliers. Now, just being in a garage is hardly a crime, but when he was there and who he was with— well, that might have stood out to investigators. On the day of the heist, according to reports in the French press, about an hour after the theft, 2 motorbikes were seen on CCTV pulling into the Aubervilliers garage. garage. Investigators reportedly believed that they'd been driven there by Louver suspects. Meignier told me that Gassman had also been there because he had keys to open up the garage, and these men, who he knew, wanted to store their bikes there. 6 days after the meeting at the garage, Airport and Motorbike were arrested. 3 days after that, on October 29th, the 3rd suspect, who we're calling Mr. Unknown, was also arrested. And then, Gassmann left for a business trip to western France. Meunier says he had a job on a construction site there. The police followed, and he was arrested on November 25th, 2025. Meunier says Gassmann had been at the garage, but that didn't mean he'd been anywhere near the Apollo Gallery.

My client contests the fact to have been at the Louver.

Oh, he says he wasn't even there?

No, not at the Louver.

And as for the rendezvous at the garage— He was called by a friend to open up his garage to put 2 motorbikes in?

Yeah.

And he didn't have any idea that it might be linked to the Louver?

No.

Meunier says he had no idea that the heist had even happened. She says he had been asleep. But he could then later that day, the next day, the next week, he could have gone to police to say— I think these guys maybe were involved. They asked me to hide some motorbikes. It looks like the ones on CCTV. They released this footage on the news. He could have done these things, but he didn't.

Would you do it to your friends? I'm not sure of what I would do. He's not the 4th.

He's not the 4th man?

Yes.

Prosecutors seem to disagree. According to a police statement, they charged Gassmann with the same crimes as the other 3 suspected Louver thieves: organized robbery and criminal conspiracy to commit a crime. Is there anything you think your client, if he was here now, what would he like us to know? What would be the one thing, apart from that he wasn't there on the day? What would he want to tell us, do you think?

My claims? Believe me, I guess.

I really didn't know what to believe. According to Menya, Gasman was innocent. Airport, via his lawyer, had admitted he was guilty. Motorbike, according to the prosecutor, had claimed partial responsibility, though I didn't know exactly what that meant. And there was this other suspect arrested, Mr. Unknown, we're calling him. I hadn't been able to reach him at all. I had no idea what he was thinking. And I'll be honest, I had hoped that someone might know something about the location of the jewels. If they did, obviously no one wanted to tell me. As I left Menya's office that day, something struck me that I hadn't really thought about before. I stopped to talk about it with my producer, crammed in a tiny stairwell outside Menya's Yeah, we just, um, we've walked out downstairs from the office building. I'm standing next to the smallest lift in the world. I just thought that was fascinating. You know, she sees that she's defending a man she genuinely believes is innocent. Yeah, I mean, my biggest takeaway is that I thought of these 4 men as 4 of the same kind of person, and I'm quickly realizing that each of them is completely different.

And that's what makes this so fascinating and what makes it so much more interesting going forward, because it could go in so many different directions. That's the tiny lift moving behind me, and I think she's coming down from her office to go to dinner.

I hope we are not speaking about me.

Bonne nuit, bonne nuit, merci. Now, the trials for these men are a long way off. Meunier told me it might take years for these cases to go to court. When they get there, according to a statement from prosecutors, the charges could bring jail time of 10 years per person. Remember, the investigation into the Louver heist is top secret, so what will be presented by the prosecution at trial could cast this whole case in a completely different light. It looked like the only thing I was going to be able to do was wait. I thought that, for now at least, that was all I'd find out about our Louver suspects. Turns out we hadn't heard the half of it.

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After my interviews in Paris in the springtime, I went back to London, and I soon got wrapped up in other stories. There was a water cover, then an earthquake. I kept one eye on any mention of the Louver heist, but didn't expect much more news to come out of the sealed investigation.

Hello, Aisha.

That was until late August, and that's when I called Aisha. Aisha is an ABC producer, and we go way back.

So we've known each other for more than 9 years.

Yeah, for sure.

She speaks at least 4 languages, and she and I have covered stories together all over the world— Belgium, Thailand, Uganda.

And I remember Thailand very clearly because you were in the middle of that rainforest with your phone. She's always on the phone to someone, making a connection. C'est ça, non? J'ai raison, n'est-ce pas? And then she's always on the phone to someone, but wearing either one of two shoes: either flip-flops or wedges.

Yeah, yeah, it's true. Sweet slaps, Brazilian sweet slaps or high heels, one or the other.

Yeah.

I wanted to talk to Aisha because. We'd been working on this story together from the beginning. And at the end of summer 2026, new details had emerged about the Louver suspects. We'd seen it reported in French media. 2 of the men had been interviewed by investigators. It was Mehdi's friend Motorbike and the man who'd allegedly been arrested at Charles de Gaulle, the man we're calling Airport. Parts of the interviews had made their way into the press, and with it, new information about the heist.

They're both basically saying the same thing, which is that they admit to taking part in the theft. These are the 2 men who were alleged to have been inside the Apollo Gallery, who broke in through the window and who broke through those glass cases.

In these interviews, according to reports, both men say they were approached just a few days before the heist by a mystery person. and asked if they wanted to take part in a robbery.

He came to see him and he said, hey, do you want to be part of it? I mean, are you ready to? And he said, oh yeah, yeah, let's just go for it. I mean, he was like, okay, I need, you know, some cash. Let's just do it.

According to these reports, the motive for these men seems to have been financial. Airport claims to have been told he'd be robbing a jewelry store and that he was offered €20,000 to €25,000 in payment. Motorbike reportedly told investigators that he was broke and that he was offered a similar amount to take part. The person who'd reportedly offered this payment, well, that was perhaps the most interesting part of this new information for me, this mastermind figure.

I just feel this big looming presence, the shadow of the mastermind, whoever that person is.

One of the suspects reportedly says he doesn't know exactly where the mastermind comes from, but he does describe him as Balkan. And there is an infamous Balkan crime syndicate, and they operate all over Europe. And I want you to remember that because we're gonna come back to this a bit later. But this is where it gets really interesting. According to the reports we've seen, both of the men allegedly say that the person who'd planned the heist was there with them at the Louver that day. As for his identity, well, according to the reports, neither man would name him. Motorbike said he feared repercussions.

I mean, they're all coming from the same neighborhood, you know. I mean, and in this type of neighborhood, there is like a code, like, um, la loi du silence. You don't say. Yeah, a code of silence. Even if you see, you don't say.

Now, the existence of a mastermind could be a story that both men agreed to stick to, perhaps to give them some plausible deniability about their role in planning the heist. But in these reports, they do give further details about the day of the theft. Motorbike reportedly says it was him who dropped that crown, the one that Frédéric, the security guard, picked up from the street. And the other thing that's interesting in these reports is who they say wasn't at the Louver that day. They reportedly say that the other 2 men in custody, the 3rd suspect we'll call Mr. Unknown, and the 4th, Gas Man, They say they're innocent.

The thing that also I find interesting is that these 2 admit to being in the room, admit to taking the jewelry, but they're asked specifically, who are the other 2 members of the gang? And Motorbike says, I can't give an answer at this stage, but I will when we get to court for the verdict. And that, for me, is extraordinary.

Now, this reporting, it also covers the hours right after the heist. It says that, just as Gassman's lawyer Meunier had told me, there was a kind of robber rendezvous in a garage in Aubervilliers. At that garage, Motorbike had reportedly been seen on CCTV handing over the jewels to the mastermind, including a tiara that had belonged to Empress Eugénie. According to these reports, this mastermind had been unhappy and thought the thieves could have taken more. Motorbike reportedly said that they'd simply run out of time because getting into the gallery had taken longer than expected.

Let's just come on to the— where are the jewels now? Because that is obviously the big question everybody wants to know.

These reports are so interesting, and it's fascinating to learn more about what might have happened that day. But do you know what they don't say? They don't say where the jewels are now. Both suspects pinpoint the last moment they saw the 8 pieces of the missing French Crown Jewels in the hands of the mastermind. According to these reports, the mastermind told Motorbike he was going to sell the jewels, and that in that garage, as Motorbike handed them over to him, there was another group there. Waiting in the distance to whisk them away.

Just from a filmic point of view, the idea that there was this other group across the road in this car park somewhere, standing and waiting in the distance to see what had happened from the theft, I just think that is just so vivid, you know what I mean? Absolutely, yeah.

Now, we should say, we reached out to the French investigators about this episode and all the details on these suspects, including these reported interviews, but they didn't respond to our request for comment. And honestly, all of this leaves us with a whole load of new questions.

One of the big, big things that I'm thinking about now, there is a chance that the other 2 people that police have in custody are not the right 2. It's like, Who the mastermind was. Is that person in custody? If not, where is he?

To be honest, after this chat with Ayesha, I'm left wondering. Maybe there are 2 masterminds. One who was at the Louver that day, and another that waited for their arrival in Aubervilliers, the one that Motorbike reportedly handed the jewels to. And, of course, it is still possible that this mastermind doesn't even exist at all. that a group of small-time criminals concocted this plan themselves. If that is the case, then you've still got to wonder, are there others on the outside hiding the jewels?

Oh, another option was that, like, an art collector who was fascinated by Napoleon and, uh, who specifically wanted this.

But that's possible. I mean, he might be— he or she might be The customer. So the customer—

That's where we're going in our next and final episode. What does all of this mean for the Crown Jewels?

Well, Ayesha, as ever, I love speaking with you. And, uh, yeah, I'll see you down the road. Bisous, bisous.

Bisous.

Next time, I'll be following the routes the jewels might have taken after the heist, tracing their possible paths through legal and illegal hands until one day they might end up in yours. Is there a chance that they come through Antwerp? At a certain point, yes. That's one of the flaws in their logic, is they think, well, the heat's going to die off and nobody's going to be looking. No, no, we're— we keep looking. Heist at the Louver is a production of ABC Audio. hosted by me, James Longman, produced by Madeleine Wood, Emily Schutz, and Ayesha Elhamar-Castano, edited by Nora Ritchie. Our supervising producer is Suzie Lu, mixing by Evan Viola. Special thanks to Katie Dendas, John Kapodineos, Indra Dele-Sahan, Iman Varoqua, Michelle Margulis, and Suzanne de Cunto. Josh Kahan is our director of podcast programming, Eamon McNiffe is our executive producer.

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