Transcript of Missing?

Hey, it's Ashan Singh with a quick reminder. You can get episodes of this podcast ad-free and before they appear in our main feed by subscribing to 20/20 True Crime Plus. Click the link in the episode description to learn more.

FX presents The Shards. Los Angeles, 1981.

We're gonna roll the school.

Don't we already?

It was supposed to be the best year of their lives.

I would stab someone for a drink right now.

Until their friends started going missing. There's something going on. From executive producer Ryan Murphy and based on the bestselling thriller by Bret Easton Ellis. Sounds terrifying. FX's The Shards, now streaming on Hulu.

4 weeks had passed since the McStay family vanished from their Fallbrook home when the investigator assigned to their case, Detective Troy Dugal, asked Joseph McStay's brother to come to the San Diego Sheriff's Department.

March 1st, 2010. It's presently, uh, 11:35. I'm at my office at my computer with Michael McStay.

Dugall believed he could have a promising lead to share with Michael. He pressed play on a silent, blurry, and dimly lit video.

I'm about to show Michael the video —That was relayed to me.

In the 15-second clip, a group of 4 calmly crosses the US-Mexico border on foot. 2 of the people in the video appear to be adults, a man and a woman. They have with them 2 smaller figures who appear to be children. According to police, the individuals are passing from the US side into Tijuana. Through the San Ysidro terminal. See them going through a long open-air corridor with metal gates, high sides, and barbed wire on top.

They're going to be walking right here. They're going to come right up this sidewalk.

Police say that video of this group of 4 was captured on the very same day that the McStay's Isuzu Trooper was towed from a shopping center also near the border. The footage is blurry, but the shapes of the people in it still told a story. To Detective Dugal, they look like a mother, father, and two children, each parent holding a child's hand.

There's the male with the kid. There's the female with a kid.

Could this be the McStays? Detective Dugal's first impression of the McStays' disappearance, according to police records, was that something bad had happened to them. He suspected foul play, but this border footage cast new doubt. Maybe the McStays had left of their own accord. In the weeks following the family's disappearance, those who knew the McStays were left scratching their heads. Was the family alive and well in Mexico? Or had something terrible happened to them? From ABC Audio in 2020, I'm Ashan Singh, and this is What Happened to the McStays? Episode 2: Missing? When the McStays vanished, they left behind close family and friends who all wanted answers. In 2011, Patrick McStay, Joseph and Michael's father, told ABC News that he started looking into the family's disappearance himself.

I don't know what happened, okay? I'm looking for answers just like them. Let's look at everything.

Patrick enlisted help from Joseph's friend, Gina Watson.

It's not like I always liked true crime, but I liked mysteries or like, I'll go down a rabbit hole. And I definitely did that in this case because I wanted to be able to make sense of it all. Like something that's so incomprehensible. I will say, yeah, I got a little obsessed.

Remember, Gina Watson had met Joseph McStay through work. She says once she learned Joseph and his family had gone missing, she was stunned. Wanting to find a way to help, Gina says she reached out to Joseph's family and eventually connected with Patrick, Joseph's dad.

Of course, I was more than happy to, um, help him put some things together.

Police had executed a search warrant at the McStays' Fallbrook home They seized a number of electronic devices and did a forensic analysis of them, looking into the family's finances and bank records. They checked Joseph and Summer's cell phone records too. Gina says she and Patrick did what they could to help investigators. According to Gina, Joseph had given all his email passwords to his dad for safekeeping, so she and Patrick started going through Joseph's emails together.

I was conflicted because it's like I'm in my friend's personal email now. Like, that felt weird, but I want to help go through things as quickly as possible, make sure everything's paid attention to that should be.

Gina found a couple of messages that raised red flags for her. She says she found one email about a counseling session for Joseph and Summer a month before they disappeared. Gina wasn't sure what to make of this.

A lot of times, like, they say the husband did it. So you have to be open-minded and say, well, could Joseph have gone mad and done something to his family? I mean, of course you want to say no way. And I did think no way. But you want to be open-minded and consider everything. Did Summer— like, did she do something nefarious? But we could never back any of that up.

Another discovery that piqued Gina's interest. Was a set of transactions from a business account.

I saw that there were withdrawals from the PayPal account.

A PayPal account that had been set up for the Waterfall Company to pay vendors and receive payments from customers. But what caught Gina's attention were the withdrawals from the PayPal account in the days immediately after the McStays went missing. All told, nearly $7,000 had been withdrawn.

And so I was like, hmm, if they say they went missing on February 4th, could they have brought a laptop with them? And he's doing business from a hotel somewhere. Is that what happened? Or— so we're trying to piece this together.

This discovery might have offered a ray of hope that Joseph and his family were still alive. But Gina says she knew it wasn't Joseph initiating these transactions. It was Dan Cavanaugh. You'll remember from our last episode, Dan was Joseph's business partner as a web designer. He ran the retail site for Earth Inspired Products, and he was close to the family. So close, Dan says, the McStay kids called him Uncle Dan. Remember, Dan was the first one to call in a welfare check for the family.

Hello. Hey, Dan, Troy. Hey, Detective, how you doing? Good, how are you doing?

Detective Dugal of the San Diego Sheriff's Department asked Dan about the PayPal transactions. Dan had an explanation for the withdrawals.

Let me ask you this, Dan. I know you have access for PayPal and PayPal transfers. I know there was— there's been several. Um, all the way back to like the 5th.

You want me to do this? Itemize out all the transfers and get you like receipts?

If you could do that and just shoot me a quick ledger on what— where the money went, that way I— my questions are answered.

Dan explained he needed the money to keep the business afloat. He said the website costs money to maintain. I pay internet advertising companies.

Like thousands of dollars a month just to maintain us on the top of Google. And if those guys don't get paid, there is no VIP in this site.

You're explaining that to me. I totally understand that.

Dan also told investigators he wasn't anywhere near the McStays' house at the time of their disappearance. He was in Hawaii with his girlfriend. When investigators looked into flight information and Dan's girlfriend, His story checked out. They cleared him from the list of parties potentially involved with the McStays' disappearance. Dan wasn't the only person in the McStays' circle that police spoke to. There were a few others that detectives interviewed, hoping to learn something, anything about where the family had gone. Among the people on that list was Charles Merritt. Better known as Chase. He was a welder who built custom fountains for Earth Inspired Products. Joseph and Chase had worked together for around 3 years. The world of custom water features is small, and Gina Watson had worked in the space for years. She says not everything that she'd heard about Chase was positive.

I started hearing more and more of these things, these problems, customer service issues. I did ask Joseph during one of our last conversations, long conversations that I remember, I asked him point blank, like, you're going to use Chase, like, exclusively? That's your guy? And he was like, yeah, I know. I've heard, you know, the things. And I know that he's had trouble in the past, but I'm trying to help him.

Authorities said what they really wanted to talk to Chase about was his calendar.

I saw Joseph Thursday around noon. Thursday, which day? Thursday the 4th.

Chase sat down with Detective Troy Dugal and his partner Suzanne Fisk for an in-person interview. Chase said he had a meeting with Joseph the day the McStays went missing to discuss work.

Two projects that we're in the middle of, we were in the middle of, we had to go over them and get, make sure all the specs were right. Where the different electrical is coming out. Where'd you see him? At Chick-fil-A. Okay. Right. He met me at Chick-fil-A and he bought lunch there.

At that February 4th meeting, Joseph and Chase spoke about all kinds of money stuff, as Chase put it. Payments to vendors, payments from Joseph to Chase. There was nothing out of the ordinary about the meeting. According to Chase. But during this interview with detectives, Chase said something that caught their attention.

Joseph, Joseph, Joseph was one of my best friends.

Joseph was one of my best friends. Detective Suzanne Fisk clocked this choice of words immediately.

Joe was my best friend. Oh.

I did. You did? And I don't know why.

Did you guys have a falling out at all? Never. Never. No. So it wouldn't be like he was my best friend and now we're just— No, absolutely not.

Joseph is— Okay. Still your best friend? Oh, yeah, definitely.

Okay.

If Joseph was still Chase's best friend, why did he use the past tense?

I have nothing to do with any— whether it was them going somewhere you didn't help participate in.

No, not in any way, shape, or form.

Nothing to do with the disappearance, whether it's good or bad? Absolutely not.

No.

I mean, I don't know of anybody that has anything to gain by Joseph being gone. I think everybody that I know has everything to lose.

Chase told detectives that his whole business depended on Joseph McStay, that he and Joseph were close and talked almost every day for the last 2 years. Plus, Chase told them he was one of the first people in the McStays' inner circle to help search for the family. On the day Michael McStay went into his brother's home through a back window, it was Chase who had met him there. Before detectives ended their interview with Chase, they asked to collect his DNA. He agreed to a cheek swab. Ultimately, San Diego police determined there was no crime to charge anyone with. No arrests were made and no indictment filed in the McStays' disappearance. But interviewing people wasn't the only avenue detectives pursued. They also chased and combed through potential evidence, like the family's Isuzu Trooper. The one found near the southern border. Did something inside the vehicle tell detectives what happened to the McStays?

Mysteries unravel and stunning truths are revealed when 20/20 Investigates.

Follow the clues, the evidence, the breaking new details. 2020 means true murder mystery.

Shocking.

If you follow true crime in 2020, then you've got to listen to this. Subscribe now to 2020 True Crime Plus, ad-free, exclusive true crime content. Search 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple Podcasts and start your free trial. Terms apply.

Everybody okay in here? I'm hormonal.

Boo-hoo, we are all hormonal. Shop to the party, it's coming up. FX presents Adults.

Dude, you're the most mature of any of us.

No. You have TSA PreCheck. Global entry. From executive producer Nick Kroll. Going out alone isn't weird, it's mature.

I asked my mom.

FX's Adults premieres August 27th on FXX. All episodes streaming on Hulu.

ESPN Fantasy Football is now the official fantasy game of the NFL. The 2026 fantasy football season is going to be the best the number one yet with new app enhancements including NFL highlights in the Fantasy app so you can track your team live every week. Get expert insights from our fantasy analysts and try our new Knockout Leagues where the lowest scoring team is eliminated each week until one team remains. Download the ESPN Fantasy app for free today and sign up to play the number one fantasy game.

When police located the McStays' white Isuzu Trooper, They took it to the crime lab and processed it.

What I remember that they recovered from the vehicle was some, I believe it was asthma medicine. And I think one of the boys was taking asthma medicine, which it's essentially a red flag when you see someone left medication in a car, especially if, you know, if they were going into another country. Why wasn't his medication taken with him?

This is Lieutenant Dennis Brugos, who you heard from last episode. He was Detective Troy Dugall's boss and oversaw the McStay investigation for the San Diego Sheriff's Department. Investigators collected DNA swabs, lifted fingerprints, and searched the SUV. According to authorities, there were no signs of struggle in the vehicle. If the Isuzu Trooper itself offered little information, the investigation around the McStays' home offered more leads. A police report shows that detectives spoke with the residents of Avocado Vista Lane.

There was one neighbor that came forward with a surveillance video.

A few doors down from the McStay residence, a neighbor had installed a security camera facing the street. Lt. Brugos' team took a look at the footage from February 4th, the day the McStays went missing. And lo and behold, at 7:47 PM—

appeared to be a vehicle which looked like it might be their Isuzu backing out of the driveway and driving down the street. But we weren't able to get any kind of license plate number on it or anything like that.

Detectives also couldn't tell who was inside the car as it drove away. The video was dark and only showed part of the vehicle, but assuming it was the McStay's Isuzu Trooper leaving their driveway, police say there was a 4-day gap before it appeared again at that shopping center near the border. The drive from Fallbrook to the Mexican border takes about 1 hour, so where had the car been for the rest of the 4 days? While detectives puzzled over this new information, Gina Watson, who'd been doing her own digging, found a new potential clue: an email in Joseph's account about purchasing a Spanish-language software.

I see an email to someone to get Rosetta Stone Spanish, and it was when Rosetta Stone first came out and everybody was touting it as like, you're going to learn the language, like you'll be fluent. If you just do this Rosetta Stone. So I think Summer was excited in the email.

Was it possible the family had been learning Spanish to prepare for a planned trip to Mexico?

It's Mike. Hi, Mike. Troy Degal.

Hey, Troy. In March 2010, A month after the McStays went missing, Detective Dugall called Michael McStay to share another discovery he'd made.

Got a little bit of information. Finally got a little bit of a lead. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Hey, bro, it doesn't tell me where your family's at, but it does tell me which direction they may have went.

Ah. Dugall said the forensic analysis of the family computer had come back. It showed that about a week before the McStays were last seen, somebody had searched for information about crossing into Mexico with children, including requirements for children's passports. For Detective Dugall, the theory that the family had gone to Mexico voluntarily was looking more and more viable.

It was only possible. I think it's above possible now with that information.

Earlier in the month, Detective Dugall asked Michael to his office at the police station and showed him that blurry surveillance video of the 4 people crossing the border from the U.S. into Tijuana. Police felt that if they could say definitively that the people in the video were Joseph, Summer, and the boys, then the footage could serve as visual proof that the McStays were alive and well in Mexico. Dugall and Michael watched the video several times, poring over every detail. Do you recognize that jacket?

The kids, are they the right size for Gianni and Joseph?

Yeah, it seems that— well, if I had to guess it, that would be the younger one, Jay, and that would be Gianni. I can't tell. Can I watch it in, like, real time so I can tell my brothers how he walks, you know?

The detective pointed out that the children were wearing beanies like Gianni and Joseph Jr. often did, and that the height and size of the adults and children seemed to roughly match the McStays. But Michael said he needed a better shot. A better angle to know for sure. Detective Dugal said that wasn't likely. Here's what I can tell you.

We frequently get cases that involve Mexico. We know where cameras are and we know what images are good for people going into the border. This camera is by far the best.

It may have been the best footage available, but Michael still wasn't convinced it was, in fact, his family in the video. He said the walk of the female adult wasn't consistent with Summer's walk, and he didn't recognize the jackets the adults were wearing. Were these 4 figures on the screen the McStay family or not?

I can't tell from that, sir, at all. No idea.

Detective Dugal had his doubts too.

I don't know that anyone would be able to tell. If that was my sister walking across there, I don't know if I'd be able to tell.

So I can't recognize anything.

You don't know, good or bad? It's just— Well, unfortunately, neither can I. And I'll tell you what, this whole case has been a lot like that.

A mystery that was feeling impossible to make sense of. —a dark, blurry image offering nothing recognizable. After weeks of looking for evidence of foul play, Detective Dugall hadn't found any. In fact, to him, all the available evidence was pointing in the same direction: that the McStays had left the country voluntarily.

Michael, I currently I can convince somebody who has nothing to do with this case that there's a stronger likelihood that they're alive and south than I can convince somebody that they were abducted or being held. There's no ransom, no law enforcement has come across any suspicious circumstances, persons, people who have been killed, and then we have things like this.

Things like this, as in this border crossing video. But was there more to the story of what happened to this family?

Hello, this is Chad.

The Hulu original Chad Powers.

Everyone's obsessed with Chad Powers. He really is a master of disguise.

Chad is hot.

Here I go again. From Glen Powell and the creator of Loki—

I might be in over my head.

Please do not get caught. The Hulu original, Chad Powers. What's the worst that can happen?

Coach finds out you're Russ Holliday and actually murders you?

September 3rd, streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundled subscribers. Terms apply.

There's a headline every 30 minutes for our show, I'm pretty sure.

Welcome to Get Real. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch. This is the show for the reality TV obsessed.

—You thought the show was crazy.

Living it was crazier. I was dripping sweat before I even started.

—for the stars and fans of the Hulu realityverse.

Do we think she's stirring the pot to secure a place on the show?

Find and listen to Get Real wherever you get your podcasts and stream new episodes Thursdays on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. Terms apply.

Get your tickets now for The Dogstars.

Let's play the whole game.

It's no surprise how fast civilization civilization can disappear. Out there, kill or be killed.

Jacob Elordi. There are people out there.

They need our help. Josh Brolin.

Shoot first and inquire afterwards. Margaret Qualley.

Ow! Okay, tough guy.

And Guy Pearce. Arm up! The Dark Stars, directed by Ridley Scott, in theaters August 28th. Get tickets now. Rated R. Under 17 not admitted without parents.

When Joseph's father, Patrick McStay, saw the surveillance footage from the San Ysidro border crossing, he wasn't convinced it was his family. It's blurry.

You can't see it. It's a jerky motion. And the man does not have long hair. That's not Joey. Summer doesn't own a coat like that. That's not Summer.

Also, Patrick wondered, What about the surveillance cameras en route from the car to the border terminal? Weren't there any? And wouldn't they have caught a clearer picture of the McStays?

They had two little boys, 3 and 4 years old. Uh, Daddy, I got to go to the bathroom. Daddy, I'm hungry. And I know, I had two little boys. I know what they do. And you mean to tell me that they didn't go to a restroom? They weren't in and out of stores? They didn't go to a restaurant?

In his interview with ABC News, Patrick was clearly upset, and his message to investigators was clear: Get off your rear end, get out there and find them. Gina Watson also wanted investigators to do more.

Lieutenant Brugos, one of the statements I remember him making is that it's not a crime to go missing. And I remember being so angry when I heard that because I'm like, well, of course it's not a crime to like you know, go sit on the beach in Mexico and sip mai tais, but that's not what they're doing. Like, I know Joseph. I know he loved his kids. Like, if I disappeared and my kids were gone with me, I get emotional because it's like I would want somebody to do something and not just say, "Well, it's not a crime." While detectives worked on the case, the media seized on the story, both local and national.

The McStays' disappearance was featured on Nancy Grace's Headline News. An entire family vanishes, including these small children. What, what do we know? America's Most Wanted covered it too. Tonight you could help solve this agonizing mystery. Joseph's family brought attention to the case, giving interviews to news outlets and sending missing flyers down to Mexico. Websites and Facebook pages soliciting tips went up too, and Michael McStay told ABC News in 2011 the public did reach out with suggestions from across the country. About where his family could be.

Indiana, Tennessee, North Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Montana.

The San Diego Sheriff's Department followed up on tips that came in. Detectives notified Interpol to be on the lookout for a missing family that might be in Mexico. Local authorities worked with Mexican authorities to check hospitals, and airports. But according to San Diego Police, detectives eventually exhausted all their leads. Police ultimately put out a statement saying the family left home of their own free will and turned the case over to the FBI. If there were any sightings of the McStays in Mexico, the FBI had the resources to follow up. Early on, Joseph's family hoped that the 4 missing McStays would turn up safe and sound. But months, even years in, the hope of a return was giving way to fearing the worst.

Something's not right. Someone needs to come forward. Someone saw something. Someone knows something. I'm suspecting the worst. I'm suspecting foul play.

And the worst would come. What Happened to the McStays is a production of ABC Audio in 2020, hosted by me, Ashan Singh, produced by Madeline Wood, Vika Aronson, Audrey Mostek, and Kiara Powell. With help from Sabrina Fang and Camille Peterson. Edited by Gianna Palmer. Our supervising producer is Susie Lu. Music by Evan Viola. Mixing by Evan Viola and Bob Mallory. Special thanks to Katie Dendas, Janice Johnson, Chris Donovan, Joseph Reed, Sonny Antrim, Alyssa Stoller, Xander Samaras, Tom Berman, Indra Dalesakhm and Blue Browning. Josh Cohen is our director of podcast programming. Eamon McNiff is our executive producer. Can't wait for more? Listen to the next—

Some cases fade from headlines. Some never made it there to begin with. I'm Ashley Flowers, and on my podcast The Deck, I tell you the stories of cold cases featured on playing cards distributed in prisons, designed to spark new leads and bring long overdue justice. Because these stories deserve to be heard, and the loved ones of these victims still deserve answers. Are you ready to be dealt in? Listen to The Deck now wherever you get your podcasts.

Something is happening in Dawson Creek. A wave of violence has swept over this community of just 13,000 people.

It's like the kind of stuff you only hear about on TV.

15 murders in the last 5 years.

Some criminals, I put them into the category of supervillains.

I'm Timothy Tsawa, and from CBC's Uncover and The Fifth Estate, an investigation into deaths and disappearances in Dawson Creek and what's behind it all.

I'm not saying another word. Leave me alone.

The Mile Zero Murders, available now on CBC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.

Episode ahead of everyone else, ad-free. Subscribe now to 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple Podcasts. Click the link in the description to start your free trial today.