Transcript of US-Iran Talks Delayed, Vance Peace Architect, Obama Presidential Center Opens

So we're getting started late with the pre-production, and it is entirely my fault because I was talking to Leila.

No.

Here in the studio.

No, no, no. It's not my fault. I was not involved in this fault.

No, I didn't say it was your fault. I said it was my fault. I was talking to you. You talking to me?

We were chatting about the world and world affairs. Yes.

Very important things to talk about.

Hundreds of journalists are in Switzerland waiting for the U.S. and Iran to start the next phase of talks.

The plan was to make the peace deal permanent, but now the U.S. and Iran Iran aren't coming. What happened to the negotiation?

I'm Leila Fawdan. That's Steve Inskeep, and this is Up First from NPR News. Vice President Pence lashed out at Israel for criticizing the deal with Iran. He says Iran will be paid only if it performs.

If they change their behavior, big things are going to happen for Iran and for the world. If they don't, no skin off our backs. Either way, we win.

How did Pence become the face of this deal?

Also, former President Obama opened his presidential center in Chicago. The A new museum begins the story not with Obama's election in 2008, but with the Declaration of Independence. Tamara Keith had a look. Stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your day. This week on the NPR Politics Podcast, new polling shows President Trump is more unpopular than ever. Trump turned 80 this week. One voter who voted for him in 2024 had this message: I would have said I would have bought you a cake, but I can't afford one.

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Vance and a delegation from Iran were scheduled to meet in Lucerne. The presidents of the U.S. and Iran signed a memorandum this week. It sends benefits to Iran but is only a first step toward a comprehensive deal.

NPR's Rob Schmitz made it to Lucerne, even though the vice president did not yet. Rob, hi there.

Hey there, Steve.

It seemed like negotiators were on this accelerated schedule. They signed the preliminary deal early. They were going to dive right in and talk. Why are they now delaying?

Yeah, we don't know exactly why, but Israel's continued bombardment of southern Lebanon is not helping. You know, the very first article of this agreement that was signed by President Trump and Iran's president promises to ensure the territorial integrity of Lebanon. Obviously, that is not happening. Just this morning, Lebanon's health ministry said at least 18 people had been killed in overnight strikes, while the Israeli military said 4 of its soldiers have been killed in southern Lebanon. Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has made it clear that Israeli forces in southern Lebanon intend tend to stay there. Members of Netanyahu's cabinet have called this deal, quote, "bad for Israel." And Vance said this in response yesterday.

Donald J. Trump is the only head of state in the entire world who is sympathetic to the nation of Israel at this moment in time. And he happens to be the head of state of the world's superpower. If I was in the cabinet of the Israeli government, I might not be attacking The only powerful ally that I have anywhere left in the entire world.

Really rare for an American official to publicly dress down Israel like that, which says things we could maybe discuss about politics in America, but also about the pressure on Vance.

Yeah, and he's obviously in a very difficult position here. And yesterday, he appeared defensive when he was pressed about the details of the agreement with Iran. Vance said, quote, "We don't trust words." We trust action and we trust conduct.

And so we're gonna reward conduct and we're not gonna reward any words, whether they're written on a sheet of paper or not. There's a lot of discussion, the MOU, the gentlemen's agreements, the final deal. Words don't matter, ladies and gentlemen. We're about verification.

And Steve, you know, some might question here that if the Trump administration doesn't trust words, why sign an agreement in the first place? When President Trump was asked at the G7 summit in France what he would do should Iran not adhere to the agreement, here's what he said.

No, we're going to bomb the hell out of them if they violate the agreement. How did Iran respond to that, Rob?

So Iran's Speaker of Parliament shot back at Trump this morning in a post on X saying that if there is a breach of the agreement, Iran will, quote, have no hesitation in delivering a crushing response to the enemy. And it should be noted here that the very first article of the agreement promises that both sides will cease all military operations.

They're supposed to cease military operations. They are supposed to spend 60 days negotiating, but I guess here on day 1 or 2 or 3 or whatever this is, they're not going to be talking.

Yeah, that's right. And here we are in Switzerland waiting for a peace deal. You know, across this beautiful Alpine lake from me here in Lucerne, the Swiss government has taken a range of security measures to host this event, and there are hundreds of journalists here to record it. But for now, Iran's foreign ministry said the signing ceremony was off, and the White House said in a statement that the plans for the upcoming technical talks have not been finalized. Neither side is here. They're threatening to strike each other, and this agreement appears appears to be on very shaky ground.

NPR's Rob Schmitz is in lovely Lucerne, Switzerland. Thanks so much, Rob.

Thank you.

Now, we heard Vice President Pence a moment ago criticizing Israel. He did not show up in Switzerland, but he is the face of these talks for the United States, and NPR's Danielle Kurtzleben has been following his role. Hi there, Danielle.

Good morning.

What is the vice president's role in the negotiations?

Well, he confirmed at yesterday's White House press briefing that he'll be leading the negotiation team. There aren't a lot of details yet on that, though. He had been supposed to go to Switzerland today for a ceremonial signing, but then Trump signed the deal a couple days ago. So now the White House says negotiation plans aren't finalized and Vance and his team will just leave at the first opportunity.

Meaning will leave to go negotiate at the first opportunity.

Right.

Okay. How much is riding on him?

A lot. I mean, President Trump made a telling joke about this at a press conference this week. A reporter asked him essentially if Vance is the fall guy if things don't work out, and Trump answered with this.

This way, if it works out, I'm going to take the credit. If it doesn't work out, I'm blaming J.D. You better be careful, J.D.

Now, it got laughs, and Vance said yesterday that, yeah, it was a joke. But even so, there's a reason it got a laugh. Trump does not like to lose, and Vance is the face of these negotiations. He's been doing these many press appearances this week talking up his new book, and in those, he also talked a lot about Iran. And he gave that press briefing yesterday, and he's leading the team. So if the US does not get what it wants, Vance may at least publicly have to own a lot of that. And we even saw a little taste of that this week as well when some on the right pinned their dissatisfaction with the deal on Vance.

He's got a lot to accomplish in 60 days.

Yeah, absolutely. Though there is the possibility of extensions beyond 60 days. But even so, the Obama nuclear deal took more than a year and a half to negotiate. So if it's 60, even 120 days, that still could be a pretty short time frame. And then, like you said, there's a lot Trump wants here. He has said Iran will never have a nuclear weapon. Officials have talked about changing the course of the Middle East region. Those are high bars. And I talked to Mona Youcoubian, director of the Middle East program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, about this.

The president's proclivities to exaggerate the terms for success then set J.D. Vance or whoever is undertaking the negotiation going in at somewhat of a disadvantage.

Now, in addition to all of that, she said Iranians are notoriously tough negotiators and Vance isn't a seasoned diplomat. So really, it's hard to overstate how big of a job this is going to be.

What does he bring to the table if he's not a seasoned diplomat?

Well, he's been trying to laugh off that criticism, first of all, that he's not experienced. Yesterday, he said he has dealt with hostile adversaries, saying that, well, he was on The View this week, which, you know, haha. OK. In terms of his assets, it is possible that Vance's anti-interventionist positions of the past give him some credibility here. In addition to that, he's an aggressive messenger for the administration. So really, I think the thing to keep in mind, though, is that for all the White House is celebrating, this framework isn't an end to the war. It's a start to what might be a difficult process to end the war.

NPR's Danielle Kurtzleben, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Thank you.

Today, the Obama Presidential Center in Chicago opens its doors to the public. I hope this center will serve as an affirmation of just how special, how precious our democracy truly is.

That is former President Barack Obama speaking Thursday at a dedication ceremony that evoked a different era. In American politics.

NPR senior political correspondent Tamara Keith covered the Obama presidency and is in Chicago having had a look at the center. Tam, good morning.

Good morning.

What was Obama trying to say?

He was saying a lot, but I think distilled, his message was about hope and change and the idea that the division and anger that dominates politics now doesn't have to be irreversible. All of the living former presidents were there, but not the current president, Donald Trump. He wasn't invited. And there's this thing that happens when Obama and Clinton and Biden and Bush are all together in one place. When they talk about the American idea and democratic ideals, it reads as an implicit criticism of Trump and his approach to the presidency and his view of the country. Former First Lady Michelle Obama also spoke, and she was not entirely subtle in her remarks. At this point in the clip I'm going to play, she is both bragging on her husband and then delivering a left jab. You were doing the people's work, rescuing our economy, expanding healthcare, ending a war, ordering the bin Laden raid, saving an auto industry, winning a Peace Prize. And that laughter slowly grew and drew this audible belly laugh from former Secretary of State and First Lady Hillary Clinton.

Tam, I can't help but notice another contrast. The United States is trying to pull together some July 4th celebrations. The Trump administration announced this concert, and a bunch of the acts seem to have withdrawn from it, but the Obamas seem not to have had any trouble getting people together for this library celebration.

Oh, indeed, they had no trouble at all. By the end of the event, when Stevie Wonder was up on stage with The Roots, Jennifer Hudson, Common, John Legend, Eddie Vedder, Bono, Bruce Springsteen, others I'm probably forgetting, all singing "Higher Ground," it felt like being at the Grammys more than being at some stuffy old presidential library dedication. About that museum, I got a chance to visit the center and walk through it earlier this month, and it really does, like that concert event, capture the vibes of the Obama years as if the past decade never happened. But Obama said he doesn't see it as a time capsule.

The exhibits in the center are not meant to evoke nostalgia for some gauzy bygone era, some unattainable past that we can dream about and say, oh, we miss you, Barack.

He said he wants to remind visitors of what's possible.

Well, let's talk about the museum itself and how the story is told. I mean, I do remember in 2008 when Obama was elected, even many people who opposed him said this is a moment— is a very moving moment. In American history. But I also remember America being deeply divided then also over Obama. So how are they crafting this story as they tell it now?

The museum does not start with Obama's birth in Hawaii. It starts with the Declaration of Independence. And the museum places the Obamas in that long arc of history that the former president often talks about. It includes triumphs and some failures. —and leaves open the idea that Obama's legacy hasn't fully been written yet, but may well be determined by what comes next.

NPR's Tamara Keith in Chicago, thanks so much.

You're welcome.

And that's Up First for this Friday, Juneteenth. I'm Steve Inskeep.

And I'm Leila Faldin. Happy Juneteenth. Today's episode of Up First was edited by Kate Bartlett, Dana Farrington, Megan Pratz, Mohammad Zabardisi and Lindsay Totty. It was produced by Ziyad Bajj and Eva Pukac. Our director is Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Simon Laszlo Jansen. Our technical director is Carly Strange. And our executive producer is Jay Shaler. Join us again on Monday. Mm-hmm.

This week on Consider This: The global race to dominate AI has made a handful of people incredibly rich. Senator Bernie Sanders wants to spread that money around.

AI is based on human knowledge and human labor.

They deserve the benefits of that.

Bernie Sanders on his idea for an AI sovereign wealth fund. This week on Consider This. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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