Transcript of Pam Bondi Out, Iran Charges Strait Tolls, International Meeting on Hormuz

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Pam Bondi's time as attorney general is over.

She obeyed the president's demands to read partisan talking points and prosecute political opponents, but lost his confidence over the handling of The Epstein Files.

I'm Em Martinez. That is Steve Inskeep. And this is Up First from NPR News. Iran is considering charging up to $2 million per ship to allow passage through the Strait of Hormuz.

They are comparing the transit through the strait to, say, what the Egyptian government does with the Suez Canal.

How long will Iran make money off of other countries' oil?

The U.S. and Israeli war drastically increased the hazards of passing the strait. Then the United States seemed to abandon efforts to secure it. So what do 40 other nations plan to do about it? Stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your day. Attorney General Pam Bondi is out.

Yeah, Bondi made history as attorney general, going to exceptional lengths to make the Justice Department subservient to the political whims of her boss. Federal prosecutors spent tax dollars seeking indictments of the president's political opponents, and they were repeatedly accused of misleading judges or defying court orders, but there was at least one way that Bondi displeased the president.

For that, we turn now to NPR's Supreme Court and Justice correspondent Carrie Johnson. If it has anything to do with the law, Carrie covers it. Carrie, good morning.

Good morning, Steve.

What did Pam Bondi not do for Trump?

The White House thinks she mishandled law enforcement files related to the convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Last year, Bondi brought in a group of MAGA personalities, gave them binders of papers, but the Trump loyalists said those were old news. And then in an interview with Fox News, Bondi went further: The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients.

Will that really happen?

It's sitting on my desk right now to review.

Later, DOJ said there was no such client list, which only added fuel to conspiracy theories. Eventually, Justice did make some files public, but lawmakers say a lot remains hidden, and some of what DOJ did release were names or images of victims of Epstein's abuse. Bondi had been set for opposition in Congress later this month, but it's not clear now whether that's going to happen.

Now, A mentioned that Bondi did make efforts to prosecute the president's political opponents, people the president didn't like. How did that turn out?

The irony is that she tried to advance criminal cases against Trump's perceived enemies, but judges and grand juries in many cases did not seem to be buying that. Cases against the former FBI Director Jim Comey, New York Attorney General Tish James, those got thrown out. Another grand jury refused to indict Democratic lawmakers who made a video telling service members to follow their oaths and disobey illegal orders. But Trump wanted to see more, more cases against California Senator Adam Schiff, former CIA Director John Brennan. The problem is there may not be evidence to do that. Traditionally, prosecutors need to be confident they'd win a conviction before they bring any kind of case.

So what do you see as the legacy of this distinctive attorney general?

It's really a big legacy. She presided over a massive exodus at the Justice Department. Hundreds of prosecutors and FBI agents now gone, reshaping the institution. The founder of a group that supports DOJ workers says Bondi took a sledgehammer to the place, and no one's done more to degrade DOJ's independence or integrity in the department's 155-year history. Judges, of course, have criticized the department for blowing off orders, Grand juries pretty frequently decline to bring indictments, which almost never happened before last year. And some of the top leaders in the FBI who were fired last year have sued. They say they were ousted for political reasons because they were not sufficiently loyal to Donald Trump. And the nonprofit advocacy group Public Citizen says Bondi's departure shows no one can be loyal enough for Trump.

Well, what do you know about Todd Blanch, who we'll mention is the deputy attorney general now running the DOJ day to day?

He's a former personal lawyer to Trump. There's been a lot of angling in and outside the administration over who might become the next attorney general on a permanent basis. Of course, that person would require confirmation from the Senate, and the administration may want to move this year in case the Senate changes hands in the midterm elections.

NPR's Carrie Johnson, thanks so much.

Thank you.

Iran is formalizing a system to make ships pay transit fees to pass through the Strait of Hormuz.

Iran is asserting control over the waterway through which about a fifth of the world's oil and gas passes. It's a side effect of the U.S. and Israeli war on Iran.

NPR international affairs correspondent Jackie Northam is covering this. Jackie, good morning.

Good morning, Steve.

Okay, so I'm just picturing it. There's a captain of a ship and they've got a Venmo some money ashore or something. How's it actually work?

Okay, well, the shipping analysts and crisis management groups that I've spoken with say it starts actually with government-to-government negotiations, and if Iran agrees that a ship can sail through the Strait of Hormuz, it's given a code which will be broadcast over VHF radio to the Iranian Navy, and then the ship will be escorted into Iranian territorial waters, then on through this strait, which is international waterway. A senior Iranian lawmaker suggested the fees could be upwards of $2 million per vessel. I spoke with Jack Kennedy, and he's with S&P Global Market Intelligence, and he says this toll system, Steve, is really about Iran trying to claim sovereignty over the Strait of Hormuz.

They are comparing the transit through the strait to, say, what the Egyptian government does with the Suez Canal, which is to have a toll-based system. Obviously, that's not a like-for-like comparison, but you can see where the Iranian leadership is trying to push that narrative.

And you know, at the moment, Steve, the toll system seems ad hoc. Some ships, including those from India and Pakistan and China, have worked out deals diplomatically, and any Iranian-owned or flagged vessel won't be charged. And any ship with links to the U.S. or Israel will not be allowed to pass, full stop. And you know, analysts say it's unlikely this system is going to work. You know, it would be hard to get regional buy-in to have something like the toll system in the Suez Canal. And you know, and opening the strait, they say, is just going to happen through diplomacy. It's the best answer.

It does sound, though, that at least some oil is moving through the strait.

Yeah, you know, but it's both slow and still precarious. You know, it's just not— and not just oil and oil products that are stuck in the strait. There are a lot of critical components also on ships. Helium, which is an important component for semiconductors. Fertilizer cost has gone up more than 20%. And aluminum, which is in short supply now in the U.S. You know, President Trump slapped 50% tariffs on aluminum, including from Canada, which was the U.S.' biggest supplier. And Canadians went looking elsewhere for customers, mostly in Europe. So the U.S. has had to turn to the Middle East for aluminum from Bahrain and the UAE. Now those supplies destined for the U.S. are stuck in the Strait of Hormuz.

Ironic. The president, of course, addressed the nation Wednesday evening and he gave a general timeline, a vague timeline, talked of another 2 or 3 weeks of intense strikes on Iran. Has that actually been happening since?

That's right. And Trump threatened to send Iran back to, quote, the Stone Age. Thursday, the U.S. took out a key bridge important for Iran's Iran's military supply lines, and Trump threatened to hit more civilian infrastructure, including power plants, next week. Iran, in return, has stepped up its attacks, showing it still has firepower. And Wednesday evening into Thursday morning was one of the heaviest bombardments of Israel, and there have been a number of strikes overnight across the Gulf states. Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps has also threatened to target the Middle East operations of U.S. tech companies such as Nvidia and Amazon and Apple if any more Iranian leaders are assassinated. And there are quite a number of these tech companies in the Gulf region as those states try to diversify their economies.

Jackie, thanks so much. Always appreciate talking with you.

Thanks, Steve.

That's NPR's Jackie Northam. Now, the UK hosted an international meeting looking for ways to reopen the Strait of Hormuz.

President Trump briefly made threats to Iran to reopen the waterway. When that failed, the president claimed he didn't care and that it was other countries' problem. Now, the other countries are considering what to do.

NPR's Correspondent Fatima Al-Kassab was following the discussions and is on the line from London. Hi there.

Hi, Steve.

Welcome. So for better or worse, I guess this is essentially a meeting on Zoom. Is that right?

That is right. It was a virtual call. It was hosted by the UK's foreign secretary, Yvette Cooper. She was keen to stress that over 40 countries took part, including representatives from European countries, Canada, the United Arab Emirates, but of course not the US or Israel, the countries that launched the war. Cooper said the rest of the world had been left to deal with the consequences, though, which is why she was organizing this meeting. She said that by blocking the Strait of Hormuz, Iran was hijacking a global shipping route, and she said holding the global economy hostage. This is hitting the trading routes for Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, the UAE, Saudi, Oman, Iraq, but that means liquid natural gas for Asia, fertilizer for Africa, and jet fuel for the world. And she said that traffic through the strait had plunged from 150 ships a day to between 10 to 20 ships a day. So this meeting was about diplomatic and economic measures that these countries can take both now and after the fighting stops to help secure the shipping route. It was not a military meeting, though. The foreign secretary did say that military planners from these same countries would get together next week to think about defensive capabilities again for securing the strait once the fighting stops.

OK. President Trump told other countries the other day to take and, quote, cherish the strait. Sounds like they're not doing that or not trying that right away. But what measures are they suggesting?

Yeah, not quite that. They did discuss a range of things and they were really just discussing them at this point, including putting more diplomatic pressure on Iran, including via the UN, and rejecting any attempt by Iran to impose tolls on ships passing through. They said they explored the option of sanctions to bear down on Iran if the strait stays closed, but they didn't agree on anything concrete. They also talked about working with the International Maritime Organization to try to help about 20,000 sailors and thousands of ships ships that are currently stuck in the strait. But Britain's foreign secretary said this is just the first step.

What are other leaders saying?

Yes, so we had France's President Emmanuel Macron saying yesterday that the idea of using force to reopen the strait, something Trump has suggested, is unrealistic. He said that would leave cargo ships vulnerable to Iranian attacks. He criticized Trump's threats to pull out of NATO too. Here he is speaking in Seoul yesterday. He says that by casting doubt on the US commitment to NATO, Trump is eroding the very substance of the alliance. Now, US allies have repeatedly said they're not going to get involved militarily in the hot phase of the war, despite Trump's calls for them to do so.

OK, can these other countries, having had their call, get anything done?

Well, yeah, so it is, as well as kind of showing to Trump that they're starting to do something, it's also about looking ahead. If the US does unilaterally walk away and they're forced to go it alone and negotiate directly with the Iranians, one analyst I spoke to, Mujtaba Rahman, From the risk analysis firm the Eurasia Group described the meeting as a bit of a Trump management exercise, though. He says that as long as the U.S. and Israel are bombarding Iran, Iran is unlikely to be responsive to any diplomatic outreach from these countries.

NPR's Fatemeh Alkassab in London, thanks so much.

Thank you, Steve.

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And that's Up First for this Friday, April 3rd. I'm Steve Inskeep.

And I'm Em Martinez. Today's episode of Up First was edited by Dana Farrington, James Heider, Nick Spicer, Mohammed Elbardisi, and Alice Wolfley. It was produced by Ziad Butch and Eva Pukac. Our director is Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Nisha Hynes. Our technical director is Carly Strange, and our executive producer is Jay Shaler. Join us again tomorrow.