Transcript of Can clergy candidates help Democrats win in red states?

I'm Ayesha Rascoe, and this is The Sunday Story. Election Day is just weeks away, and the stakes couldn't be higher. Democrats need to pick up 4 seats in the House and 4 in the Senate to take control of Congress. Something that might help them do it? A different kind of Democratic candidate, one who talks about faith.

Jesus tells the parable of the Good Samaritan.

Like Sarah Trone Garrett.

Everyone is your neighbor.

I'm a Luke 4 Christian.

Frederick Haynes.

'Cause Jesus says, the Spirit of the Lord God is upon me because he's anointed me to preach good news to the poor.

And Lindsay James.

It's about showing up for people. It's about listening without judgment. It's about offering hope, and it's about telling the truth.

Why are these Democratic candidates so good at talking about religion? Well, they're clergy. Unlike Republicans, who aren't shy talking about religion on the campaign trail, these Democratic clergy have to thread a very fine needle: appeal to people of faith, but do so in a way that doesn't turn off the base. Meanwhile, Republicans are on their own mission: to discredit these candidates. Here's Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick.

I've never seen so much blasphemy from anyone running for office.

And Republican businessman Joe Mitchell.

I called them pinos. Pastors in name only, because they're not real pastors. They don't profess the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

Today on The Sunday Story, we'll take a closer look at some of these Democratic clergy candidates, ask why they're running, and whether their messages are resonating with voters. Stay with us. This November, there's a wave of Democrats running for office who are all members of the clergy. But can they convince the party's secular base?

I don't think religion should play into government and politics at all. I thought the country was founded on that.

On The Sunday Story, how Democratic pastors are reframing the role of faith in American politics. Listen now to The Sunday Story from the Up First podcast on the NPR app.

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Welcome back to The Sunday Story. I'm here with NPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose, who's been following 4 Democratic clergy candidates in competitive races. Welcome to the podcast.

Hello, it's good to be here.

So Jason, at Weekend Edition, you know, my other job, we've done like a number of interviews about how religion is playing a role in politics right now. You've been covering religion for years. Did you ever think you'd see a critical mass of clergy running as Democrats? I think it's about like 6 or 7, depending on who you count.

Well, Ayesha, it's certainly remarkable. After the election in 2000, I remember reporting on progressive people of faith trying to counter the George W. Bush administration, specifically his compassionate conservatism. But a lot of those efforts never got off the ground or just really fizzled. What's different this time around is not just talk about progressive values. This time around, it's clergy who are the candidates— people trained to speak about scripture and faith and inspire people to live out that faith in public life. As many pastors will tell you, a big part of the job is rallying people around their beliefs to make a difference in political life, whether that's about healthcare or abortion.

So before we get into the specific clergy who are running, what do you think is driving clergy who identify as Democrats to actually run for office? Like, was this coordinated in some way?

Well, nobody I spoke with says they were recruited specifically because they're clergy. They say they decided to run as a response to their calls to ministry, their calls to faith, their calls to public life, and a service to neighbor. They see some of the actions of the Trump administration, and they say their faith compels them to take action and run.

That, that's very interesting to see it showing up, like, on the left in that way. So Jason, tell me about some of these candidates. Like, who are we talking about here?

I reported on 2 candidates from Texas and 2 candidates from Iowa, both states that voted for Trump in 2024. In fact, Trump carried both states by a margin of more than 13%. So very red states. Probably the most high-profile candidate is James Talarico. He's the Democratic nominee for Senate in Texas. He's currently a state representative in the Texas House, a former middle school teacher, and a student at Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary. So he's not quite clergy yet— he's a minister in training— but he does preach regularly.

I want to speak to you this morning not as a candidate, but as a fellow Christian.

On a Sunday this summer, he stood at the pulpit of Brentwood Baptist Church in Houston.

My granddad was a Baptist preacher in South Texas, and when I was real little, he told me that Christianity is a simple religion.

Simple, he says, but not easy.

Because Jesus gave us 2 commandments to follow: love God And love neighbor.

On this morning, Talarico was preaching on a passage from the Gospel of Luke.

Sometimes we see the world most clearly through our tears. If your heart is breaking as you watch what's happening to our beloved country, it means you still have a heart. So blessed are you who weep.

Blessed are you who weep. Talarico often frames this campaign as being on the side of those who have been harmed by policies of the Trump administration and who are upset about it, those who weep.

Yeah, he's talking about the Beatitudes there, right? And, you know, I always personally think about the scripture that says, God is close to the brokenhearted. But that's what that comes from, right?

Exactly, from the Gospel of Matthew. Blessed are those who weep, Blessed are the poor, the hungry, the persecuted. And he's aligning those blessings with the people in this congregation who feel harmed by the actions of the Trump administration and the GOP in general. The congregation he's addressing on this day is almost entirely Black. As we've reported extensively, in Texas, Republican-led redistricting has diluted the Black vote and Black political power. So he's referring to the loss of that hard-won influence and that pain the weeping it's caused.

And I understand there's another clergy candidate running in Texas specifically because of redistricting?

That's right. The Democratic nominee for the U.S. House District 30, which encompasses part of Dallas and some southern suburbs, Frederick Haynes. He is the head pastor of a large congregation, the 13,000-member Friendship West Baptist Church. He got up. He got up. That's why you ain't got to stay down, because he got up.

Hallelujah.

Hallelujah.

He's led the congregation for more than 4 decades. I visited Haynes while he was hosting an interfaith forum to talk about community needs and the need for Black and brown voices in politics.

I've spent my ministry on the outside, you know, fighting what's happening inside. And now it's as if God is saying, okay, you've been called to bring outside voices and an outside vision in the House.

Haynes says he was specifically inspired to run for Congress after the Texas Legislature redistricted and eliminated one of the state's 2 Black U.S. House districts. I asked him if there was a biblical passage that inspired both his ministry and this campaign.

I'm a Luke 4 Christian. Because Jesus says, the Spirit of the Lord God is upon me because he's anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He prioritizes those who've been made poor by systems. That's what the Greek says. Set the captives free. Heal those who are broken.

Broken by feeling disenfranchised, both politically through redistricting and economically, whether it's by inflation or just lack of opportunity.

Now, how competitive are these races?

Well, we know that the Talarico, Texas Senate race is very competitive, a real toss-up according to polling. The House seat in Dallas, where Haynes is running, is safe for Democrats since it's the last predominantly Black district left in the state, but this would be Haynes' first elected position.

So we have 2 Democrats from Texas running on faith, Frederick Haynes and James Talarico. Who are some of the others?

Well, it turns out there are 2 clergy people in Iowa running for the U.S. House as Democrats. In the 3rd Congressional District is Sarah Troen Garrett.

Lift up your heads to see and hear the proclamation of the good news made flesh in Jesus Christ.

Troen Garrett is a Lutheran pastor who's also served in the Iowa Senate since 2021. I visited her in Des Moines on a Sunday morning when she was leading worship at a Lutheran church. She was encouraging her congregants to open their about what God's reign might look like.

The Kingdom of Heaven challenges what we have come to expect or learned to accept.

She says she hears her call to public office in a familiar story from the Gospel of Luke.

Jesus tells the parable of the Good Samaritan. Everyone is your neighbor. Anyone who is overlooked and left behind and forgotten, that's who you are called to help. And that is the calling of government.

The calling of government, she says, is to help the forgotten and the left behind. Now, about 2 hours northeast of Des Moines is the small town of Waverly. I accompanied the other Democratic clergy person in Iowa running for the U.S. House as she shook hands at the county fair.

Hi, Lindsay James, running for Congress. Nice to meet you.

Lindsay James is a Presbyterian chaplain, a She's a 4-term State House representative and the Democratic nominee for Iowa's 2nd Congressional District. She remembers the moment she decided to run for federal office.

After the big beautiful bill was passed from D.C. and about 27,000 Iowans were at risk of losing their health care in just Iowa's 2nd Congressional District.

And Ayesha, rural health care is critical in farm country, and James says the way she can best care for her neighbors also alluding to the gospel story of the Good Samaritan, is taking their cause of rural health care to the US Capitol.

What do you need?

What can I help with? What do you need? So Jason, how are these candidates' Republican opponents responding to their campaigns? I'm sure they're not just taking this lying down.

I'd say there's a unified theme of opposition in both Texas and Iowa. And among other things, the GOP candidates are actually questioning whether the Democrats who are clergy are really Christians.

Yeah.

So that's not too surprising to me, because one of the things I've seen growing up in church is that people often focused on who's real and who's not, who's getting into heaven, who's really about it. But the thing with this is, these are— these Democrats who are running for office, they're clergy or they're in seminaries. So how are these Republicans making the argument that they're not Christians?

Well, here's James Talarico's Republican opponent, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, speaking at a campaign rally. We cannot let Texas turn based on a deceiver like James Talarico, who does not want the world to know who he really is. Paxton and his campaign repeatedly raise this idea that he's hiding something about his religious beliefs, and they describe Talarico as an out-of-touch radical. Now, here's Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick talking about Talarico earlier this year at the state GOP convention.

I've never seen so much blasphemy from anyone running for office. And let me tell you what, I'm going to pray for that guy because when he loses the Senate race, if he campaigns against God as he's been doing, he's going to hell for sure.

Wow.

I mean, saying that someone is going to hell is a big deal. How has Tallarico been responding to these types of comments?

He's actually incorporated a response to these attacks into his preaching and campaign rallies, giving specific examples of what he says are GOP actions.

The real blasphemy is kicking the sick off their healthcare to fund tax cuts for billionaires. The real blasphemy is letting children go hungry in the wealthiest nation on Earth. The real blasphemy is homeless veterans sleeping on our streets.

Well, you know, Jason, you know, it seems like what these politicians are doing is calling each other blasphemous because they have different understandings of how to interpret Scripture.

Right.

Another example outside these races is how J.D. Vance talks about the biblical idea of neighbor, being those closest to you, while others, including many Democrats— we just heard Lindsey Graham say it— your neighbors are the people most in need. Now, a similar clash of interpretation is coming from Frederick Haynes' opponent, Everett Jackson, in the Dallas House race. Jackson questions Haynes' faith and his leadership.

I cannot categorize him as a shepherd or a pastor.

Jackson is a Dallas-area businessman. Here he is speaking on a conservative YouTube show called Disturbing the Peace.

Because a shepherd, the Good Shepherd, as we're taught by the Lord, they would see to the safeguarding of the sheep and lead them in a righteous path. This is not what Freddie Haynes is doing. Freddie Haynes has politicized the gospel and thusforth mislead his parishioners.

So that's Texas. You know, the Midwest is usually known for less heated language, a little more Nice. Are the opponents of the Democratic candidates there being a little more cordial?

In a word, no. In fact, Sarah Troen Garrett's opponent, incumbent GOP Congressman Zach Nunn, criticizes her for how she's carried out her ministry, dating way back to when she was a pastor in training about 2 decades ago. When Troen Garrett was an intern, she assisted at a wedding for 2 people who weren't Christians, In fact, they said they were Satanists.

Satanists?

Okay.

So this is a little bit of a strange story. These 2 people were getting married. They weren't Christian. They needed someone to officiate. So they knocked on the door of the church where Trone-Gerriet was an intern.

And they didn't really look like lovebirds.

She talked about that moment at a Des Moines Register storytelling event.

Were they getting married to avoid having to testify against each other?

The pastor of that church agreed to do the wedding out of kindness and asked her to assist.

Irritated, I flipped through the Bible thinking, should I pick something with Satan in it to make them feel more at home?

But for her opponent, Congressman Nunn, finding out about these Satanists was ripe material. Here he is speaking on news radio 1040 WHO in Iowa. She talks about the situation like it was some kind of a charming story. She even joked about picking Bible verses so that Satanists could feel more at home. Trone-Garriott says she saw that moment with the Satanist couple as something that was honoring the 2 people in their humanity.

Eventually, I just put the bookmark in at 1 Corinthians chapter 13. Love is patient. Love is kind. And in that moment, when I glanced up, I was struck by the sudden tenderness on her face.

And Ayesha, I'll point out that when I interviewed her, Troon Garrett defended both assisting with the wedding and telling the story.

It's a story about the power of scripture. And I believe it spoke to that couple in that moment, who seemed like the wrong people in the wrong place. And it was speaking to me.

So it's like she's arguing that she was ministering to these Satanists, you know, just the way you minister to the lost.

That does sound like what she's talking about there. Also just being present for people who were in need. So, Ayesha, let's go to Northeast Iowa next, to the open House district where Lindsay James is running. Her opponent, Republican businessman Joe Mitchell, also questions the ministry of not only James, but also of Sarah Trone-Garriott. Here he is at the Conservative Evangelical Family Leadership Summit this summer.

I call them PINOs— pastors in name only— because they're not real pastors, right? They don't profess the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

Now, why in name only?

Well, one of the things both Mitchell and Nunn bring up relates to Trone-Garriott and James serving in the state legislature. They both voted against bills that would have restricted transgender rights. Republicans argue those votes are anti-Christian. Similar criticism of James Talarico in Texas for votes he's taken in the statehouse there. However, in reality, Christians hold a whole host of views on trans rights, from very conservative to very liberal. And while their opponents are framing them as radicals, these candidates are pretty centrist Democrats on a lot of issues, like healthcare and taxation.

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I'm Aisha Roscoe. This is The Sunday Story. We're back with NPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose, talking about the Democratic clergy running for Congress in this year's midterms. Jason, let's turn to how voters are responding to these campaigns. There's a Pew Research poll that says less than one-third of Democrats say religion is important to them. You spent a lot of time on the ground in Texas and Iowa. What did you hear?

What I found on the ground— or rather, in the pews at campaign events and on the streets and at county fairs— is a range of responses. Since we're talking about clergy talking about faith, let's start with how people of faith are responding. Among the churchgoers I spoke with, folks fall into 2 general categories: enthusiasts and skeptics. Candace Stroud was sitting in one of the pews at Brentwood Baptist Church when James Talarico spoke there. She's been a member for more than 40 years, and she's glad Talarico embraces his faith while campaigning.

I think Democrats have been talking about religion for years. It's just nobody wants to listen to us if you don't say what they want to hear.

When you say they, what do you mean?

The Republicans, basically. They don't want to hear that we are Christians, we go to church, we believe in the Bible.

And Tallarico's Christianity, Stroud says, sounds a lot like her own.

Yeah, you know, that's really interesting because, you know, I'm a person of faith. I go to a Black church. I've been, been at the Black church all my life. Um, and a lot of Black churchgoers are very conservative, and they're aligned with conservative values. But being Black, they just— they're not gonna vote Republican. Um, I remember back in the day with, with family members, um, I had one family member who was against gay marriage, and she was thinking about voting for George W. Bush. But then another family member was like, you can't just vote on that issue. You know, it's more to it than that.

You know, Ayesha, that example, I think, really speaks to something that was very true a few decades ago, but less true today. Pew Research has done extensive polling on this. And there's been a lot of political movement toward acceptance of things like same-sex marriage and LGBT issues more largely within the Black church, also greater acceptance of legal abortion in historically Black churches. I wonder if you've noticed that change over the years.

I mean, I think that there are bigger mainstream churches that are more accepting of gay people. There is still a lot of churches that are homophobic or that are not supportive of the LGBTQ community. But even with a lot of those churches, it's not their main focus. It's not something they're preaching about from the pulpit every Sunday. I think there's still a big focus on justice and racial justice that shows up more even in those churches.

Yeah, I think that's true. I found that in my own reporting. And I see this from, you know, Pew Research as well. Now, Ayesha, let's consider another view from the pews, or actually a view from The Coffee Hour. That's where I spoke with Rich Schneider, who heard Sarah Trone-Garriott preach at Grace Lutheran Church in Des Moines. It's a predominantly white congregation, lots of families. He tells me he's not naturally inclined to want clergy in politics.

I'm skeptical until I get a chance to listen to their expressions of faith and how they, how they view their calling.

And when it becomes a calling rather than a prescription or a bully pulpit, then Snyder says he likes what he hears from Trone-Garriott on the campaign trail, but he's also glad that she does not preach overtly political sermons. She doesn't talk about running for the U.S. House while she's preaching. Trone-Garriott says she's careful to distinguish when she's acting as clergy and when she's acting as a politician. But these callings, of course, influence each other.

Okay, so that's the view from the pews, as you put it. I like that. How about the take from people at campaign events?

Well, let's go back to that interfaith forum in Dallas that Frederick Haynes held. It was meant as a way to hear people of faith's concerns about issues like housing and voting rights. About 50 people attended, mostly Christian church leaders from different denominations— Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal— but also a fairly large group of Muslims. Republicans in Texas have been increasingly using anti-Muslim rhetoric. saying Muslims can't be true Texans or true Americans, raising fears about Sharia law. So I wanted to hear what their big issues were.

I think I can speak to this firsthand.

Ali Asghar Aliabi is a professor at the University of Texas in Dallas. He says the Muslim bashing hits home.

Living in Texas right now and seeing what's going on with Islamophobia right in my backyard has certainly made my job It's going to make my job a little bit more challenging, but I'm ready for the challenge.

Ready, he says, in part because of the people of Christian faith he's met at events like this. People like Reverend Haynes.

The people that I found solidarity with, with, you know, my liberal values or my religious values or my social justice value— values were often the faith groups here.

And he says given the anti-Muslim rhetoric in Texas politics right now, he's glad Haynes specifically invited Muslims like himself to talk about their concerns.

But Jason, let's pull back for a moment. You've mentioned that a lot of Democrats aren't religious in any way— Christian or Muslim or anything else. So how do these candidates play with them?

Well, I asked around at a Democratic town hall that James Talarico held in Houston one Sunday afternoon. Really diverse crowd. Many of the 700 people packed into the room held signs or wore t-shirts that read on the front, Talarico for Texas, and on the back, Love thy neighbor, referring to the Gospels. Taking in these messages was 40-year-old nurse practitioner Brandon Sterling.

I would say I'm more spiritual than religious. The only thing I do religiously is I get up, I go to work, and go to the gym.

Sterling's pragmatic about what it'll take for a Democrat to get elected statewide in Texas.

We're here in the South. You know, a lot of people lead their political views with their religious views, if you will. So if this is how you have to reach the greatest amount of people, then so be it. It doesn't offend me at all, especially what he's saying, because love thy neighbor.

I'd call that the indifferent toward religion group.

Jason, though, what plays at a political rally or a church isn't necessarily what plays on the streets, right?

I'm Sarah Tern-Garriott. I'm state senator for Dallas County, and I'm running for Congress.

So on a humid Sunday afternoon in the western suburbs of Des Moines, I accompanied Sarah Trone-Garriott canvassing for votes.

I'm a minister. I'm a state senator.

One of the doors Trone-Garriott knocked on belonged to Steven and Casey Hendrickson. The big issue for them?

Cost of everything. We just went grocery shopping and it's just, it's amazing how you can get like 20 items and it costs $100.

The couple isn't especially religious, but when I asked their thoughts on clergy running for office.

I think they have an ability to work with people more so than others. They've, like, actually seen people go through things and are willing to help people.

Moral compass will be on the higher side versus those that don't, would be my guess.

So not religious, but they think maybe a person of faith could bring better ethics to Washington.

Right. And what they said about the cost of groceries, I heard that a lot while reporting this story. It was a theme in both the Des Moines area and in rural Bremer County in northeast Iowa. While I was walking around the county fair there with Lindsay James, lots of people raised real bread-and-butter issues.

Bremer County.

Yeah. I've seen your ads quite a bit. Oh, have you? Oh, good.

Good.

Good.

We're not spamming you too hard. No.

No.

Well, you say that—

Among the potential voters she met while touring 4-H exhibits and sampling cheese curds was Lindley Sharp. Sharp works in public health and worries about budget cuts to programs like vaccination campaigns and health education programs.

It's going to mean less money for local public health down the line after some of their federal funds are gone.

Standing nearby was Kip Ladege, who works in emergency medical services.

Look at the Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement that we get, because we're getting hosed here.

If we have a $600 call, we're lucky to get $120. I've got all the charts. While neither ambulances nor public health may seem like religious issues, for Lindsay James, they're deeply moral ones. And she says they're why she decided to run for the U.S. House.

But Jason, what about those voters who really don't like any God talk in their politics? You know, when they hear people of faith, they also want to hear, what about people with no faith?

Well, it's definitely a concern for Democrats, and one I think is best embodied by someone I met while out following folks knocking on doors in Houston in support of I'm a volunteer with Texas Together.

We're working for Kristen and—

Her name is Kristen Koch. She cares about improving schools and worries about the recent flooding in her neighborhood. When I asked her about James Talarico's focus on faith—

Talking about religion as it relates to policy and things like that, I would be turned off by.

Why is that?

Well, because I don't think religion should should play into government and politics at all.

It should—

I mean, that's— I thought the country was founded on that.

Ayesha, that's a very important point of view to keep in mind for Democrats talking about faith on the campaign trail.

Yeah, you know, I have a friend who was a pastor, and he ran for office as a Republican. He lost, and then he actually repented because he felt politics were too divisive. And if he's going to spread the gospel of Christ, he didn't want to be limited to just one party, right? Like, he wanted everyone to hear it regardless of the party that they're in.

Well, that's where I think threading the needle comes into play. I will say that many of these candidates have figured out how to do it, though, at least in state politics. Lindsay James is a statehouse representative. Sarah Trone Garrett is a state senator. They're clergy, and they're careful to not campaign from the pulpit.

Is there any indication that these messages about faith, whether it's about the Good Samaritan or the Beatitudes, have moved the needle among voters in Iowa or Texas?

Well, you know, it's hard to say what specifically has moved the needle, but it's moving. It could be that independent voters and swing voters are just motivated by the economy or the Iran War or the dislike of the White House ballroom. But there's been significant movement in these places where clergy are running. In the course of my reporting this story, the Cook Political Report moved the Senate race in Texas between James Talarico and Ken Paxton from leans Republican to toss-up. That's huge in Texas. And earlier this year, Cook moved Iowa's 3rd Congressional District, where Sarah Trone Garrett is running to unseat Zach Nunn, from leans Republican to toss-up. So there appears to be some real traction.

So there's traction, but it's still a balancing act, being both a religious leader and a politician.

It is. And I don't know if there's any one strategic solution to making it work. But I do think that the story that inspired James and Trone Garrett and Talarico to run is part of the answer. The story of the Good Samaritan, that story of the person who helps a man lying injured on the side of the road from Jerusalem to Jericho. There's a specific interpretation or reading of that story that Lindsay James, the Presbyterian chaplain, brings up. It's from Martin Luther King Jr.

He, he talked about the road being notorious for people getting harmed and hurt, and that we had a moral obligation not just to pick up the person who's hurting, but to actually fix the road.

James is deeply motivated by this concept of the Good Samaritan, but I didn't hear her once bring up religion while talking with voters who were worried about emergency services or public health at that county fair. So she's walking that fine line. Still, Lindsay James sees that road to Jericho today as underfunded healthcare in rural Iowa. And repairing it is what her faith, and the faith of many Democrats, looks like in public life. It's her way of serving her neighbor.

Jason, thank you so much for bringing us this story.

You're welcome. Glad to do it.

That's NPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose, who's been reporting on clergy running for Congress as Democrats. This week's episode of The Sunday Story was produced by Sharon Mashihi and edited by Jenny Schmidt. Fact-checking by Greta Pittenger and engineering by Anli Huang. Special thanks this episode to NPR senior editor for religion and spirituality, Daniel Burke. The rest of the Sunday Story team includes Andrew Mambo. Our supervising senior producer is Liana Simstrom, and our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. I'm Ayesha Rascoe, and Up First will be back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend.

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