Transcript of 851: Try a Little Tenderness

Mei's 6 years old, in 1st grade. She's the kind of 4th grade kid who, when we sit down for an interview, before I can get to any of the things that I wanna ask her, she launches into a few get to know you questions of her own. Hi, May.

What's your favorite color?

We discuss favorite colors, and then she moves on to

What's your middle name?

I'm glad you're asking me that. My middle name is We move on to last names, and soon she's instructed me on the pronunciation of her last name.

Can you say Zmulczynski? That's how you say it.

Zmulczynski.

Zmulczynski, z m u d c z y n s k I.

The story I was there to talk to miss Zmulczynski about happened this fall, the beginning of the school year. In Saint Louis, where she lives, it was hot out.

It's sort of a funny story. So my sister told me to wear long sleeves I mean, short sleeves because it was, like, summer.

Mhmm.

So and I wanted to wear long sleeves, and I just got mad.

Yeah.

And I also said stop bossing me around. Though she really didn't like it, and she has a very fiery temper.

This is her older sister Johanna. Johanna's 8 in 3rd grade. Again, May, 6, 1st grade. Johanna, as the older sister, is very aware of the things that make May upset.

Mostly when I tell her what to do.

Especially, she says, when it comes to what May is wearing.

Like, she thinks fashion disasters are, like, the worst thing ever to happen, so she gets really angry when I tell her what to wear. And, yeah, Mei gets very angry a lot and her face turns red and yeah.

Here's Mei.

I was like so frustrated. I had a big tantrum.

What do you do when you have a tantrum?

I usually do this with my fist.

You're scrunching your fist as tight as they can go?

Yep. Mhmm. And I was like jumping and jumping and twit turning my legs.

Meanwhile, me and Johanna's mom, Meghan, is trying to get them both dressed and ready for school.

And I just remember she was screaming because she I said, okay, Mae. You gotta calm down so you can still get ready and get out the door. And she was just screaming that the only way she could calm down was if she punched her sister in the face.

I told my mom, that's the only way for me to calm down.

And I said, well, that's not an option. So, can you think of some other way to calm down? And then I had to get ready, so I just left and she was still kinda making quite a bit of noise. And then when I came back, kinda miraculously, the tears had dried. She was smiling.

Johanna was smiling.

What had happened? How these 2 little kids work this out so quickly? Well, Mae and Johanna explained and went down like this. Mae marched herself to Johanna's room and banged on the door. Johanna opened the door.

And Mae has been working on not giving in to her anger, not taking the low road, but instead using words, saying what she wants, which she did now.

I said, I wanna punch you on the face, and that's the only way I can calm down.

And then, Johanna, what did you say?

I wanna kinda think about that. You can punch me in the butt instead.

This caught me off guard. I was

like, okay. And then I just tried it.

When you punched her butt, did you punch her like you were super mad? Or did you punch her kinda soft by then because you were sorta half over it?

I punch I punched it hard because, like so, like, to try to get all the anger out because if I punched it softly, it sort of it sort of only lets a couple pieces of the madness out of you.

And did it work? Did you get all the anger out?

Yes. Because I punched it super hard. She definitely hit it very hard.

How was that for you?

I'm used to having a lot of siblings, and I get beat up by them all the time. So it didn't really hurt me.

Why did that work? I don't know. It's funny. I wonder if it worked because she was sort of nice about it. Like, you came to her all mad and then she didn't get mad back.

Instead, she greeted your anger with niceness.

I don't really know why she acted nice to me when I was frustrated.

Have you ever heard of this phrase, turn the other cheek?

No.

It's something that, I think Jesus said. He said that if somebody slaps you on your right cheek, like, you know, like, slaps you on the cheek of your face, he says, turn the other cheek and offer the other cheek as well. Even if somebody's mad at you and does something unreasonable, you shouldn't get unreasonable yourself.

Probably.

And in this case, your sister turned the other cheek, but it was her butt cheek that she turned.

That's funny.

But it wasn't just Johanna who got them to a quick peaceful resolution. Both girls agreed that if May hadn't asked for what she wanted at the door, if she just punched Johanna, Johanna would've punched back and would've escalated. Johanna admits she's not always so calm and reasonable with May. But this time, it was clear how to handle her, and Johanna knew exactly what to do.

And she got what she wanted, so I think that made her happy.

I think that that's true. Yeah. Like like, you didn't say no to her.

Yeah. I've been here for 6 I've been with her for 6 years of my life. I know her pretty well. I've known her for her whole life, so I get to watch a whole entire movie about her in my mind.

And so you know what to do.

Yeah.

We're there on our show in these noisy, aggressive times where the people rising to power in this world seem to come in hot, lots of fiery tempers and scrunched up fists and twitchering legs. We pause for a moment to remember there is another path. We have stories of people turning the other cheek, pausing, and trying against all odds to see the good in each other, give giving themselves over to the feeling in that old Otis Redding song. Stay tuned for a hard boiled detective, for crows with a vendetta, for righteous spankings and non spankings, for John Mulaney, and for a bus driver who thought he was God, from WBEZ Chicago, this is American Life. I'm Ira Glass.

Stay with us. This is American Life Act 1. So there's an entire genre of movies and other stories where tough guys who've been through it all and seen the worst in people decide they're gonna soften, try a little tenderness, help somebody out who needs the help. This happens in old westerns, sci fi films, spy stories. And there's a story like that on stage right now on Broadway, New York.

And I saw this a couple weeks ago and thought this story would be perfect for the radio. And the director and producers and writers said yes. The show, is called All In, and it stars John Mulaney, Richard Kine, Fred Armisen, and Chloe Fineman. And what they're doing is they're performing a set of short stories on stage by the writer Simon Rich, who's been on our show a few times with his stories. And, let's get right to it.

This story is 1 of the stories in their show. It's called The Big Nap.

Chapter 1. I woke up just after dawn. It was a typical morning. My knees were scraped and bruised. My clothes were dampened soil, and my teeth felt like someone had socked me in the jaw.

I reached for the bottle I kept under my pillow and took a sloppy swig. The taste was foul, but it did the trick. Now I could sit up and think. Now I could start to figure out how to somehow face another goddamn day. I stayed at my reflection in the mirror.

I wasn't getting any younger. I was 2 years old. Soon I would be 3 unless I stayed 2. I wasn't sure if you stayed the age you were or if that changed. I wasn't sure about a lot of things.

All I knew was I was tired. Tired of this down and dirty life. Tired of trying to make some sense out of a world gone mad. The client was waiting for me in my nursery. I'd seen her around before.

She'd come on the scene about a year ago, moving into the white bassinet down the hall. Some people called her sweetheart, others called her pumpkin, but most people knew her by her full name, baby Zoe. Sure she looked innocent enough with her big wide eyes and her princess Elsa onesie, but her past was murky. Some said she came from the hospital, but there was also a rumor she'd once lived inside mommy's tummy. It didn't add up.

Still a job's a job. So what brings you here to see me?

It's mumu. She's missing.

I rolled my eyes. Mumu went missing all the time. It was just the kind of unicorn she was. Maybe she's under your bassinet.

I checked. She's not.

Her

eyes filled with tears. I handed her a tissue, but she didn't know what a tissue was, so she put it in her mouth and tried to eat it. Please.

Mom will not have it this whole wide world.

Lost toys, a small time. Why should I bust my ass trying to find some unicorn, pry just turn up under the radiator?

Because I can pay you up front.

I cocked my head doubtfully. What kind of scratch could a baby like Zoe come up with? She didn't have a piggy bank. She wasn't old enough to have pockets. What do you got that's worth me getting up for?

Stickers.

I swallowed. Are they the, the fun kind?

See for

yourself. They were fun alright. I'd never seen so many Batmans in all my life. How do I know these aren't hot? Where'd you even get them?

I don't remember. Sometimes things are just in my hand. I also don't remember how I got into this room or what we're talking about.

We're talking about how I'm gonna find your mumu.

You mean it?

That's right, doll. I'm on the case. Chapter 2. So this is the rug where you last saw your mumu?

Yes. Someone must have taken her.

Have you seen any suspicious characters around lately?

Not that I can remember.

Think hard.

Well, now that you mention it, an old lady appeared out of nowhere yesterday and replaced my parents.

Interesting. Describe her.

Gray hair, glasses, smells like yogurt.

Large wooden jewelry?

Yeah.

Sounds like nana.

You know her?

I've had run ins with her before. She's from Florida.

Where's Florida?

It's in the sky. Really? Yeah. How

do you get there?

You get in an airplane and you watch cartoons, and when you wake up, you're in her house and there's a turkey.

If Nana's from Florida, what's she doing here? That's

what I'm gonna find out. Chapter 3, Nana was elusive. Sometimes she was lying in a recliner. Sometimes she was small inside a phone. If I was gonna track her down, I needed good old fashioned shoe leather.

First, I tried the playroom. Then I tried the room that has the chairs. I'd been at it for over 10 seconds when I finally caught a break in the case. Nana picked me up and started carrying me. Before long, she was making a phone call.

How's the Airbnb? Are you both wearing sunscreen? Listen. I can't figure out the bosh.

It was impossible to follow. Like all grown ups, Nana spoke in a secret code designed to keep her operations hidden.

What does sports cycle mean? Warm or cold? Hold on. I'm putting you on speaker.

And that's when a familiar voice rumbled out a nana's phone.

We're driving to the beach, just Google it, okay?

There was no mistaking it. The voice belonged to mama, and that could only mean 1 thing. This 1 went all the way to the top. Chapter 4. I'm off the case.

What? Well, you said you'd help me.

That was before I knew the score. If mama's mixed up in this, I don't want anything to do with it.

What's wrong with mama? I like mama.

We all like mama. She smells nice and is warm, but that doesn't change the fact that she runs this whole goddamn town.

What are you talking about?

Look, you're just a kid, so I'll spell it out for you. Mama's the big boss around here. The doctor, the dentist, the Gymboree instructor, they're all on the take.

But I thought Dada was in charge.

Dada. Dada is just a bag man. It was a shiny watch. It's mamas the ones that's calling all the shots.

Well, what what does this have to do with mumu?

Don't you get it? This is bigger than mumu. Something's going down here, and I'm not hanging around long enough to find out what it is. I was halfway to my crib when the girl began to sob. It didn't take a detective to see she was frightened.

Her eyes were bleary, her face pale and drawn, and at some point, she had pooped big in her pants.

Please. You've got to help me.

I got enough problems of my own. Why should I risk my hide to help some dame I barely even know?

Because you're the only 1 who care.

Chapter 5. I shuffled down the hall trying to figure out why I'd gotten mixed up in this crazy case. Was it just for the Batmans, or was it something else? There was something about that screwy kid. The world had done it dirty, but somehow it hadn't made her cynical.

She still believed in justice. She still believed in hope. She still believed that objects disappeared when you put a surface in front of you, and then reappeared by magic when you took away that surface. She even believed in me no 1 ever had before. I decided to swing by the TV room, classic grown up hangout.

The kind of after hours joint that doesn't get hoppin' till after bedtime. I slipped inside and got to work, opening drawers, taking things out, and then dropping them hard on the ground. It's an old detective tactic, a way to make sure that you touched everything and that everything got everywhere. I'd gone through most of the cabinets when the door burst open. It was nana.

I spotted a closet and sprinted inside, but it turned out to be

a dead end. How about a nap?

I shook my head defiantly. If she thought I was going down that easy, she had another thing coming.

How about some yummy medicine?

I ate the medicine. I liked to eat things that were yummy, and Nana had used that word when describing the medicine. I smiled as the sweet cherry capsule hit my tongue, but it was quickly followed by a different flavor. The bitter taste of betrayal chapter 6. Wasn't the first time I'd been drugged.

Still, you couldn't help but marvel at the grown up's depravity. They never did you dirty to your face. No. They preferred to stab you in the back. They said you could skip your vegetables and snuck them in your mashed potatoes.

They said you could sleep in their bed, then they put you in your crib the second you fall asleep. They said you could have a present, and then brought you a potty with a bow on it and told you to poop in it in front of them. Like that's some kind of a gift. I stared out the bars of my crib. The grown ups had taken my power and my freedom, but that just meant I had nothing left to lose.

Chapter 7.

Where have you been? I looked everywhere, inside a cup, inside a shoe.

I can't fit in any of those places.

Why not?

Because I'm too big.

But when you're far away, you look small.

Objects look big when they're close to you and small when they're far from you.

Oh, god. What's happening?

Nana tried to kill me. She drugged me and left me to die inside my crib.

Well, how did you escape?

I said nana up, and then nana came and picked me up. What?

Why did she try to help you after trying to kill you?

Why do you think? She's insane.

So what do we do?

We run. What? Let's run away together. Somewhere far, far away where we can make a brand new start, maybe the dead.

We'll never make it.

Anything's better than hanging around here like a couple of sitting ducks. Look. She pointed across the room. Nana was headed for the stairs carrying a clear plastic bag.

It's mumu. She's in there. Oh, god. Where's nana taking her?

The garage.

What's that?

It's the car's bedroom where it sleeps. Also, there's a big door that goes up and down and is a monster.

You you can't go down there. You'll disappear.

I won't disappear. Objects are permanent. Even when you can't see them, they are still there.

Oh, god. I can't lose you too.

You won't. I promise. Chapter 8. I climb down the stairs as silently as possible while also still counting out loud to myself because that's the game I do when I climb stairs. As my eyes adjusted to the darkness, I realized Nana was not alone.

Mama and dada had returned.

What happened? It's not my fault. It's the damn boss. Why does it have to have so many settings?

I was starting to lose the thread, but then I saw something that made my blood run cold. It was mumu just where Zoe had said she'd be in the plastic bag. There was only 1 problem. She'd been murdered. Her horn had been severed and her hooves ripped clean off her body.

Nana had taken a life, and now mama was back to run the cover up. I watched with disgust as dada obediently tossed mumu's corpse into the trash.

Don't worry. She'll never know.

I followed the grown ups up the stairs. I was almost at the top when I heard a disconcerting sound, laughter.

Look. Look, mama found mumu.

I broke out in a cold sweat as I watched mama take a new unicorn out of a plastic case. Zoe, Zoe, listen to me. That's not the real mumu. The real mumu is dead.

But this looks like mumu.

No. I I know I can't explain it, but you gotta believe me. I saw them bury her body. I saw it with my own damn eyes.

But mama said this was mumu. She used the word mumu and wiped it at it.

I grabbed her by the shoulders. You can't trust mama. You can't trust any of them. They're all in on this together. Don't buy into their lies.

Easy, sweetie. Remember, we play gentle.

The grown ups were closing in on me. I didn't have much time. Zoe, baby, they're gonna nab me any second. But before they do, please, I need to hear you say something. I need to hear you say that you believe me.

I need to hear you say that this isn't Momo.

But mama said it was.

I thought we had something. Something real. I suppose I've been a fool. I'll just take my Batmans and go.

Uh-oh, looks like someone got into the Hanukkah drawer.

I watch with silent rage as mama snacks the stickers from my hand. He's going through

a phase, sneaking around, getting into everything. He thinks he's a little detective.

The grown ups laughed in my face. And as this sick coffee breath hit my nose, something snapped inside my brain. Before I could stop myself, I was lunging at them. Arms flailing and legs kicking.

Terrible truths.

I punched and spat as the grown ups tried to restrain me, but I was determined not to break this time. No. This time, I wasn't going down without a fight.

How about some yummy Madison?

I woke hours later. My mind was so foggy, it took me a second to realize I wasn't there alone. Staring up at me from the rug was baby Zoe. What the hell are you doing here?

I brought this for you.

She slid something to me through the bars of my crib. I I couldn't make it out in the darkness, but I could feel. Soft cape, groovy hooves, fun horn. Oh, don't be crazy, kid. This mumu is all you have.

I want us to be square. Besides, it's not like it's the real mumu.

What are you saying?

I'm saying I believe you. Anyways, see you around.

She started to crawl away. She was halfway across the very small rug she was on when I said, wait. Hey. Hold on on now. This case isn't closed.

A lot remains unsolved.

Like what?

We still don't know why mama and dada went away this weekend, or where they went, or what they did there. We don't know why they go to work, or what work is, or why they both have glasses. We don't know their penis and vagina situation, or why they take showers and not baths. We don't even know if mama and dada are their real names.

That's a lot to crack.

Sure. But I was thinking maybe it'd be easier if we cut a deal.

What are you saying?

I'm saying partners. You and me.

Well, I don't have any experience. You'd have to train me.

Won't take long. We can start right now. I handed her a crayon to take notes.

Is this food?

Sort of.

Okay. I'm completely lost. I don't know where I am, and I forgot what time it is. I I don't know if I'm awake, or if this is a dream, and also, I do not understand mirrors.

Don't worry, kiddo. We'll figure it all out

together. John Mulaney, Chloe Fineman, Richard Kine, and Fred Armisen are the stars of All In, comedy about love. But the cast is gonna change soon and star other great people. The show is written by Simon Rich. It runs through February 16th on Broadway, New York City at the Hudson Theater.

Coming up, how do you get a wild animal that hates your guts to turn the other cheek, especially if it doesn't have cheeks? That's a minute on Chicago Public Radio when our program continues. This is American Life from Ira Glass. Today on our program, try a little tenderness. We have stories of people putting aside aggressiveness and anger and disappointment in other human beings and reaching out in kindness instead.

We've arrived at our tour program act 2, The Gladiator starring Ruffled Crowe. Aviva de Kornfeld brings us this story about a person who tried to be considerate and where it got him.

This story starts with a little tenderness. Alan Martin's a real nature lover, spends as much time as possible hiking around the mountains and bird watching near his home in Vancouver. So it pained him when he had to cut a big tree down in his front yard because he didn't wanna disturb any of the animals living in it. But the tree was starting to rot and he was afraid it would fall onto his house. And so, like the sensitive environmental scientist that he is, Alan waited until autumn when he knew that nesting season was over.

And then just to be extra careful, he brought in an arborist to assess the tree, to make sure he wouldn't be messing with any little critters' homes. He got the okay and hired a couple guys to cut the tree down while he stood by directing them this way and that. And then the next morning, Alan stepped out of his house and

There was this crow sitting in the front lawn and at a close distance to the steps, and it's just staring right at me.

That's very weird.

It was a bit off putting. I couldn't quite figure it out, but I walked down my path. And as soon as the crow was out of my sight, that's when I got the thump on the back of my head.

Out of the corner of his eye, Alan saw the crow fly past him. And he thought, did that crow just hit me? It hurt.

And then I did a few little experiments. I would turn away purposely and walk away, and it would leave the power line attending another hit, and I would turn around just in time, and it would swoop away. And I did this a couple of times. It was just clearly waiting for me to turn away so that it could hit me in the back of the head.

Alan thought, okay. Maybe this crow didn't live in this tree, but it must have meant something to it. He knew that crows are really smart, but they're also very vengeful birds and territorial. And so a short while later, when he walked out of his house

I came out, and there was a crow sitting on the line, but it was a different crow.

How could you tell?

It was it was smaller. It was a bit smaller, and it it was wasn't as bulky.

K.

This crow, when I came outside, it caught at me. It was as if it almost recognized me as if, oh, that's the guy. It cawed and then it left. It flew down the block and there's a green space at the end of the street. And about a minute later, it came back with the enforcer crow.

This smaller crow snitching on Alan to the bigger crow. This is a real thing. I ran Alan's story by a crow researcher named Loma Pendergraft, and Loma said that if a crow sees something it deems dangerous, it'll sound an alarm to summon other crows. And if they agree there's a threat, they'll dive bomb. This whole routine is called mobbing.

Some people attacked by murder of crows, they'd be angry. Not Alan or his family.

We felt bad because we, you know, we'd realized we'd hurt these crows.

Well, that's a very nice reaction.

Yeah. That was initially. But as as the as the harassment persisted over the coming days, it became a source of anxiety just going outside. So the the compassion for the crow, I would say, waned over time a little bit because of that. And, my next questions were how long is this gonna go on for?

Science actually has an answer to this question. It turns out crows can hold grudges for a very long time. Back in 2006, John Marsluff, who is a professor in wildlife science at the University of Washington, he set up an experiment to test this. He put on this ugly orange ogre mask and walked around an area where he knew crows lived. And then he captured a bunch of the crows, while the rest of the flock looked on.

Then he released them. The point was to distress the crows, but not hurt them. And then, for the next 17 years, every time he put on his ogre mask and walked around the place where he first captured the birds, the crows would swarm him. For years, each time he returned, more and more crows would join in, because crows not only remember their enemies, but pass their grievances onto their crow children and grandchildren. Allan was not aware of all of that, So for weeks, he'd leave his house every day, hoping the birds had finally forgotten about him.

No such luck. So he tried a new tactic.

I put on a wig and a beard, and the crow was looking hard. You know, it was kind of turning its head a bit side to side. You can tell it was trying to figure out who this was, but it didn't recognize me.

Just a PSA. There are other ways to ward off an angry crow, should you not have a wig on hand. You can hide yourself under an umbrella, so the crows can't see you, or you can wear sunglasses backwards. Apparently, crows understand that sunglasses go on your eyes, And they know that if you can see them, you can potentially hurt them. So they won't attack the back of your sunglass head because they think you have an extra set of eyes back there.

Anyway, Alan's disguise, it was working perfectly for him.

And then I ripped off the beard and the wig, and the crow flipped. It flipped out. Really? Did a back flip.

What? Ew. It literally flipped out.

It just literally kinda flipped back up into the air a little bit, but it was it was completely in shock and extremely pissed off. Like, how dare you?

It sounds like you're developing a whole kind of relationship with these birds, almost.

Yeah. It's it's a relationship of antagonism, and it's not a rewarding 1.

Allen decided he had to make amends with the crows, a real truce. But how do you do that? How do you make things right with a couple of birds?

If you could have just sat down with them and I could have apologized, and maybe they could have explained why those trees were so important, and I could have shown some understanding for them. And maybe we could have worked things out that way.

Mhmm.

But because we're unable to do that, I just thought food is maybe the next best thing.

Food. You know, the tool of every animal trainer that's ever lived.

And so I found this kind of brass gold colored plate. It was shiny. And so I put some almonds on it, and I walked out outside with it above my head, kind of holding my arms straight above my head. And I laid it out on the lawn.

The crows caught him loudly while he puts the plate down. He goes back inside and a couple hours later, Alan sees the plate sitting there, empty. The almonds are gone.

I did that for another 3 days. And then it was on the 4th day, I came outside with the plate, but they weren't calling this time. They seemed more subdued, less aggressive. And I put the plate out. I went back inside, and that was the last time I saw them.

The crow researcher told me that it seemed like since Alan had merely stressed the crows out and not actually hurt them, it might have been easier for them to forget why they were mad at him in the first place. Alan said the whole thing, having a couple birds angry at him, it kind of hurt his feelings. It's not like he's naive. He knows nature doesn't care about his feelings. It's just that he loves nature so much, and his intentions were good.

He can't help but feel like, would have been nice if the crows had shown a little tenderness towards him.

Evita Kleinfeld is the producer of our program. Act 3, you'll spank me later for this. So in this show, today about tenderness, we turn now to comedian Josh Johnson, who's been thinking a lot lately about when tenderness is called for and when the opposite of tenderness may actually be the right way to go.

Okay. This is this is like it's like contentious thing. So just just stick with me for a second because it's weird it is weird that people are weird about okay. So my friends are having kids. Right?

A lot of them are starting to have kids. So they're all having the conversation about, like, if they're gonna spank their kids. Right? And people have very strong feelings either way. Some people think like, oh, you know, if it's rare and it's warranted, then, like, a spanking here and there is not that bad.

And then some people are like, no. This is, like, this is full on abuse. This is, like, you're creating trauma and everything. And and I'm not even telling anybody how to feel. Like, I know that I was spanked when I was a kid.

Right? And and it made sense that I was spanked because we were poor. Do you understand what I mean? Like, there was nothing to take away. You know?

Like, there was a year that my mom and I shared a bedroom when I was when I was a little kid. What was she gonna take away? The floor? It's like rest of the month, you float from now on. And if I catch you not floating, that's your ass.

Alright? Do you see what I mean? Because I I was in a I was in a very weird position at 1 point, because I, you know, I didn't have much money, but I I got a scholarship, and, my family pooled their money together to make the ends meet for me to go to this Catholic school. Right? So I was a kid with no money, going to school with kids with real money.

Like like like money where they they they don't need to read. You know what I'm saying? You know that proper money that you can't mess up? You know that old money? And so, you know, I remember there was 1 time we were we were sitting around lunch table, and, and this 1 kid like, you know, I was I said something about my mom, you know, like, spanking me for something, and we were still in junior high or whatever.

So I was talking about a time from before. You know? And and then this other kid was like, oh, don't worry about it, you know? My dad still spanks me. Right?

And I was like, oh. Tyler, you have a pool. That's abuse. I feel like no matter your no matter your feelings on spanking, we've all met we've all met like a grown man that deserve to have their ass beat. And I think the thing for me the thing for me is that when when could it have happened earlier?

And I wanna be clear here. I'm not, like, blanketing, cosigning anything. I'm asking questions genuinely. I'm I'm asking questions because people are very split on it. You know what I mean?

But once again, we've all met a dude who, like, damn. He really probably had it coming sooner than today. But then how do you how do you gage that? You know? Because I get what some people are saying.

Some people are like, look. We're all individuals. So even though you have your kids and your kids have a part of you in them, they're still gonna be different people. So then how do you make sure that this kid doesn't walk away with the worst lesson possible, the worst feeling possible from this thing that, like, worked out for you, but it might not work out for them? That's that's a scary thing.

You know? Like, I okay. I used to I used to be, like, very nervous about moving to New York. Right? I moved to New York, years ago.

And I remember when I got to Brooklyn, I I saw I saw a fight when I when I got there. And it was a these were 2 kind of big guys. 1 guy was, like, medium sized, bigger than me, and he was muscular. And he looked like he knew how to fight because he did all the stances. He knew where to put his shoulders, put his fist.

He could kick. He's either trained MMA and boxing, or he's watched all the movies. Like, this guy this guy really knows how to move. Right? And and then the big guy was just a big guy.

Like, he was he was that you know that type of big where you can't tell if it's fatter muscle? You just know it's in the way. Right? You know that he can move things where he wants them to go. Just a big guy.

Right? And I don't know I don't know exactly what they were fighting about, but it felt like 1 of those fights. It felt like 1 of those fights where they really wanted to fight their dad. Have you ever been okay. Have you ever been in a bar, and then you see a fight brew like, you can smell it brewing?

And then you're also, like I think if you would, like, punch your dad years ago, none of this would be happening right now. Like, you just have 1 good row with him. This would be an a a quiet evening. Right? And, and the they were they were going at each other, and some some of it was punching.

Some of it was kicking. Now the guy that was, like, on the bigger side and muscular, he really knew his way around. Like, he was even, like, doing the hop of someone who knows how to fight. You know you know that little light foot hop where you're like, they're about to get into it. Okay.

And then there was 1 moment. Because I I walked out of this of this bar because I was doing a show, like a bar show with my friends, and then we were all walking out, and we all saw this, like, happening. It was started on the sidewalk, and it spilled into the street. And, basically, you know, he's doing the hops, and he goes for lunch. He goes for, like, this big punch.

Right? And when he goes for the big punch, the big dude moves out of the way and and grabs his, his wrist. And they both look at it. They both look at it like he grabs his wrist and looks at it, and then he looks at it like, uh-oh. And

and then

and then he grabs his wrist, and with his other hand, he grabs the back of the dude's belt. Right? Pulls him forward, knocks the guy pretty much off balance, lets go of the wrist, passes the belt to his other hand, lifts him up, and then spanked him in public. And, like, I had never seen somebody with a beer get spanked before. Like and he's really, like, floating and everything.

And this guy is, like, letting him have it. Right? Like, 1 after the other. This dude spanked him so much, he took a break. There was 1 point where he was holding him suspended in the air by his belt, but also, like and then after, like, the 36th lick, let's go of the belt dude drops to the ground.

He gets up and he sort of limps off a lot of expletives and stuff, but it's kind of done. And, this guy goes back into the bar we were just in because he wasn't watching the show. The show was in, like, a backroom. This guy was just in the bar, and I had no idea, like, what the fight was about because once again, we had already walked out, and it was already happening. But he walked back in, and I'm like, I'm a curious duck.

You know what I mean? Like so I go back in after him and I'm like, hey, man. Are you okay?

Which is

a weird thing to ask him, but it's like, are you okay? What was all that about? And then he turns to me and goes, I look like a lot of dudes' dads. Because dude was, like, 30. And he and he looked he looked like he could be a dad.

Right? And so he's like, no. I just look like a lot of dude's dads. And I was like, wow. How'd you find that out?

And he was like, oh, yeah. You know, after the 4th or 5th fight,

And you start to

put things together. And he told me he told me that sometimes he goes to the bar with his friends, and, you know, he's like, after a while, I can just tell. Some guy starts looking at me, and then he comes and he starts jawing at me. And I can tell it's not about me because it's I was just sitting here. I wasn't doing anything.

And then he wants to fight, and he either swings at me first, or he says let's go outside, but this happens pretty often. And I was like, wow. Are you a dad, though? And he was like, yeah.

I was

like, do you spank your kid? He was like, oh, no. No. I would never.

Josh Johnson. Check Check out his YouTube channel, Josh Johnson Comedy. Tour dates, videos, and albums. Alright. Joshjohnsoncomedy.com.

At 4, the feels on the bus. There are, of course, so many people who believe that being tenderhearted is not a good way to live in this tough and unforgiving world. For some people, it's a matter of principle. They think it works out better for everybody that way. Edgar Carrot has this short story about someone like that.

This is a story about a bus driver who would never open the door of the bus for people who were late. Not for anyone. Not for repressed high school kids who'd run alongside the bus and stare at it longingly, and not for high strung people in windbreakers who'd bang on the door as if they were actually on time and it was the driver who was out of line. And not even for little old ladies with brown paper bags full of groceries, who struggled to flag him down with trembling hands. And it wasn't because he was mean that he didn't open the door, because this driver didn't have a mean bone in his body.

It was a matter of ideology. The driver's ideology said that even if the delay caused by opening the door for someone who came late was just under 30 seconds, And even if not opening the door meant that this person would wind up losing 15 minutes of his life, it would still be more fair to society to not open the door because the 30 seconds would be lost by every single passenger on the bus. And if there were, say, 60 people on the bus who hadn't done anything wrong, and it all arrived to the bus stop on time, then together, they'd be losing half an hour, which is double 15 minutes. This was the only reason why he never opened the door. He knew that the passengers hadn't the slightest idea what his reason was, and that the people running after the bus and singling him to stop had no idea either.

He also knew that most of them thought he was just an, and that personally, it would have been much, much easier for him to let them on and receive their smiles and thanks. Except that when it came to choosing between smiles and thanks on the 1 hand, and the good of society on the other, this driver knew what it had to be. The person who should have suffered the most from the driver's ideology was named Eddie. But unlike the other people in this story, he wouldn't even try to run for the bus. That's how lazy and out of it he was.

Now Eddie was assistant cook at a restaurant called the steak out, which was the best plan that the stupid owner of this place could come up with. The food there was nothing to write home about, but the Eddie himself was a really nice guy. So nice that sometimes when something he made didn't come out too great, he'd serve it to the table himself and apologize. It was during 1 of these apologies that he met happiness, or at least a shot at happiness. In the form of a girl that was so sweet, that she tried to finish the entire portion of roast beef he brought her, just so he wouldn't feel bad.

And this girl didn't want to tell him her name or give him her phone number, but she was sweet enough to agree to meet him the next day at 5, at a spot they decided on together. At a dolphinarium, to be exact. Now Eddie had this condition, 1 that had already caused him to miss out on all sorts of things in life. It wasn't 1 of those conditions where your adenoids get all swollen or anything like that, but still, it had already caused him a lot of damage. This sickness always made him oversleep by 10 minutes, and no alarm clock did any good.

That was why he was always late for work at the stakeout. That and our bus driver, the 1 who always chose the good of society over smiles and thanks. Except at this time, since happiness was at stake, Eddie decided to beat the condition, and instead of taking an afternoon nap, he stayed awake and watched television. Just to be on the safe side, he even lined up not 1, but 3 alarm clocks and ordered a wake up call to boot. But this sickness was incurable, and Eddie fell asleep like a baby watching the kiddies channel.

He woke up in a sweat to the screeching of a 1,000,000,000 alarm clocks. 10 minutes too late. Rushed out of the house without stopping to change and ran toward the bus stop. He barely remembered how to run anymore and his feet fumbled a bit every time they left the sidewalk. The last time he ran was before he discovered he could cut gym class, which was about in the 6th grade.

Except that unlike in those gym classes, this time he ran like crazy. Because now he had something to lose. And all the pain in his chest and his lucky strike wheezing weren't going to get in the way of his pursuit of happiness. Nothing was going to get in his way, except our bus driver, who had just closed the door and was beginning to pull away. The driver saw Eddie in the rear view mirror.

But as we've already explained, he had an ideology. That more than anything, relied on love of justice and on simple arithmetic. Except that Eddie didn't care about the driver's arithmetic. For the first time in his life, he really wanted to get somewhere on time. And that's why he went right on chasing the bus, even though he didn't have a chance.

At sand, Eddie's luck turned, but only halfway, 100 yards past the bus stop, there was a traffic light. And just a second before the bus reached it, the traffic light turned red. Eddie managed to catch up with the bus and to drag himself all the way to the driver's door. He didn't even bang on the glass he was so weak. He just looked at the driver with moist eyes and fell to his knees panting and wheezing.

And this reminded the driver of something, something from out of the past, from a time before he wanted to become a bus driver, when he still wanted to become God. It was kind of a sad memory because the driver didn't become god at the end. But it was a happy 1 too, because he became a bus driver, which was his second choice. And suddenly, the driver remembered how he once promised himself that if he became god in the end, he'd be merciful and kind and would listen to all these creatures. So when he saw Eddie from way up in his driver's seat, kneeling on the asphalt, He simply couldn't go through with it.

And in spite of all his ideology and his simple arithmetic, he opened the door, and Eddie got on and didn't even say thank you. He was so out of breath. Okay. Maybe the best thing would be to stop listening right now. Because even though Eddie did get to the dolphinarium 1 time, happiness didn't come.

Because happiness already had a boyfriend. It's just she was so sweet that she couldn't bring herself to tell Eddie. So she preferred to stand him up. Eddie waited for her on the bench they'd agreed on for almost 2 hours. While he sat there, he kept thinking all sorts of depressing thoughts about his life.

And while he was at it, he watched the sunset which was a pretty good 1 and thought about how cramped his legs were going to be later on. When he was really desperate to get home, he saw his bus in the distance pulling in at the bus stop and letting off passengers And he knew that even if he'd had the strength to run, he'd never catch up with it anyway. So he just kept on walking slowly, feeling about a 1000000 tired muscles with every step. And when he finally reached the bus stop, he saw that the bus was still there waiting for him. And even though the passengers were shouting and grumbling to get a move on, the driver waited for Eddie, and he didn't touch the accelerator till Eddie was seated.

And when they started moving, he looked in the rearview mirror and gave Eddie a sad wink, which somehow made the whole thing almost bearable.

Edgar Carrot, reading the title story from his collection, The Bus Driver Who Wanted to be God and Other Stories. If you want to get a short story in your email from Edgar once a week, you can sign up for that at his substack@etgarcarrot, that's carrot, k e r e t, dot substack.com.

The program is produced today by Ixris Kantarajah and Henry Larson. The people who put together today's show include Jengai Bons, Angelo Jervasi, Tobin Low, Stone Nelson, Nadia Raymond, Anthony Roman, Ryan Rummery, Francis Swanson, Christopher Sutala, Matt Tierney, and Julie Whitaker. Our managing editor is Sara Abduravan.

Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum. Our executive editor is Emmanuel Barry. Special thanks today to the team at All In on Broadway, director Alex Timbers, producers Micah Frank and Greg Noble, also Scott Rowan and Alison Ebling, Wagner Johnson Productions, Owen M, and everybody else at the Hudson Theater. Also thanks today to Emily Woodbury and Griffin Dunne. This American Life has delivered public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange, to become a This American Life partner, which gives you bonus content, ad free listening, and hundreds of our favorite episodes of the show that'll show up right in your podcast feed.

Go to this americanlife.org/lifepartners. It's a great deal. It helps us out. That link is also on the show notes. Thanks this week to Life Partners Stacy Dixon, Dan Evans the 3rd, Matthew Rotz, Sara Reen, Elon Saratovski, and Joe Thorne.

Thanks, as always, to our program's cofounder, mister Tory Malatia. You know, he's been throwing out all of his old CDs, every single 1. But he is such a Bono fan. He looks at the package, Joshua Tree, Octon Baby, and screams.

Oh, god. I can't lose you too.

I'm a heard glass. Back next week with more stories of This American Life.

Next week on the podcast of This American Life, Seojoon is 29, never had a boyfriend, and she has a theory about why. Then she meets somebody who tells her she doesn't know what she's talking about. She needs to rethink the entire thing from the ground up.

What she tells her and can you change her whole life in 1 conversation, we find out next week on the podcast on your local public radio station.