Transcript of Tucker & Charlie Spiering React to the Al Smith Dinner, & Why Democrats Are Turning against Kamala

America. It's time for a redeclaration of Independence. We're amid a hostile takeover. The globalists and their political henchmen are seeking control of you and America. A group of patriots inspired by Tucker Carlson's famous Call to Bravery have written a redeclaration of Independence, demanding that our representatives go to Washington and begin dismantling the Washington political empire. Go to redeclaration. Org. That's redeclaration. Org. Read, sign, and forward. Redeclare your independence today. Welcome to Tucker Carlson Show. We bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else. They're not censored, of course, because we're not gatekeepers. We are honest brokers here to tell you what we think you need to know and do it honestly. Check out all of our content at Tuckercarlson. Com. Com. Here's the episode. How long did you marinate in Carmela Harris? How do you pronounce her name?

Well, as she issued an ad when she ran for Senate featuring children, to remind everybody exactly how she expected her name to be pronounced. Obviously, you know that if you diverge from that, then you are automatically accused of all sorts of things. But most of all, it's a very racist thing to do. You saw the same accusation go when Donald Trump did his Al Smith dinner speech, said Kamala. That made a lot of people very angry, who are still there.

How can you be racist if you don't know what race she is? Well, she I'm not even sure who I'm discriminated against when I'm discriminated against Carmela Harris or whatever her name is.

Right. I imagine that if somebody mispronounced your first name, then perhaps you could say that.

Well, if I pronounced my own first name at least in two different ways as she has, we have it on tape, then I think it would be a lot to attack other people for pronouncing it differently.

Right. It's something that if you're that insecure about how people pronounce your name, it shouldn't be. You should just be able to either quietly correct them or be completely... Just go with it. But she's made it very clear and spent money to make it clear, this is how I pronounce my name.

How long did you spend staring at Kamala Harris? How long did you work on this book?

Right. So I started in January 2023, just doing the research and pulling everything together. So about a year I spent working on researching, writing the book and wrapped it up the first draft by the summer of '23.

So just to skip to the end, and we'll unpack it, of course, but did by the end of your research, did you like her more or less?

Yeah, probably less. But I learned so much about her that it just seemed... She frequently talks about, never let anyone else tell your story. You tell your story. She cites this all the time. She cited it last night during the Al Smith dinner video that she did.

Never let anyone else tell your story.

Never let anyone else tell your story. You tell the story. And that statement strikes me as very fundamentally un-American, right? It seems like if you run for office, then if you tell your story, it's probably not real. There's probably a lot more to the story than your preferred version. And so that was a huge part of it, just finding out more about her.

But also just the endless talking about herself. Is she and everyone in her social class and political party, all they do is talk about themselves?

Right, but only in very scripted ways, right?

How about at all? Talking about yourself is like... I would say the main thing I mourn As I look back in the world I grew up in that's now gone, the thing I miss most is the directive that came very clearly from my family, and I think in most families, Shut up about yourself already. Stop talking about yourself. It's not about you, you freaking narcissist.

Well, that's why so much of her campaign depends on her identity.

No, but have you noticed this? I mean, maybe it's just the culture, the angle culture I grew up in. You were not welcome to talk about yourself all the time. That was considered just not acceptable at all. Not acceptable.

It's very rude and pompous. You don't want to be that person. Yes. Even politicians are encouraged to talk about other people instead. Of course. Don't use the word I too much. But I think for her, a huge part of it is just crafting her identity from the very beginning. When she first started running for her national office, she was very focused on creating this image of her as a person, really baking in to her identity. First of all, that she was the product of... That she always cared about politics. She always cared about justice. She grew marching and shouting with her activist parents who pushed her in a stroller through these protests. Then skip a few decades, and then suddenly she's the product of the overarching progressive movement. That somehow she's always been this progressive liberal who has always been very focused on justice and truth and has made it part of her life and a part of her biography when that's not really true.

Well, it's That's demonstrably not really true. I'm not sure what is true about a couple of episodes in her life that I've heard really nothing about. One is her high school years in Canada. I think any adult looking back will concede that high school is the period that forms you more than any other. That period in her life was spent, unless I'm misremembering, in Montreal, Canada.

Right. A huge part of her life was spent in Montreal, and so you're alienated from any your her upbringing. She was definitely alienated from San Francisco and the Berkeley environment where she was raised, brought to a similar location, academic neighborhood, high middle class, I believe. It was not a working or middle class neighborhood. In Montreal. In Montreal. Yeah. She was the product. She went to school with a lot of elites in the country and was certainly aware of what was going on, but she was alienated from the overall American experience, right? Well, yeah.

She did spend her high school years in Canada.

She might have gone home to California for some of the summers. I think there's evidence that she did so to visit her dad on a couple of occasions, but I don't think she spent much time there.

Did she graduate high school in Canada?

I think so. Then she's Canadian. Then she's Canadian.

I mean, why are we playing? I'm serious. Why are we... It's like Obama who grew up in Indonesia and Hawaii. I don't understand why we're ignoring, everyone seems to be ignoring the obvious, you are formed by your years in high school. And so she's basically- She was very inspired by people in her life, people who were in California, to go to Howard.

This is definitely a product of Kamala Harris seeking to seize on an identity by going to Howard in DC as this historically Black university and really embracing that identity and using that as she moved back to California and went to law school in California and jumped into the legal world.

Yeah. I mean, the peril, Obama is a much smarter and more talented, I think, than Kamala Harris. But There is a similarity in that both of them have these rootless childhoods, not their fault, of course, broken families, pretty tragic family situation for both of them. And neither one of them has anything to do with American Black culture at all, either genetically or culturally. They have just nothing to do with it. And both of them decide to become American Black people.

Right. That's why she brings up who she calls her second mother a lot. She was raised by her single mom who was always at work. Then in the same building, there was a person who ran a daycare center, Ms. Shelton. This is the woman who is actually from the Black South.

She has that Black experience. This is the woman she referred to recently.

This is the woman she refers to as her second mother who's a small business owner.

Okay, so this is the woman she was talking about in her speech. I was totally confused. Who is this woman?

This is Regina Shelton. She ran a daycare business in the same building as their apartment. She helps raise the children while mom's at work. She describes this woman as her second mother. This is the mother who is connected with the Black South that took Kamala to... Kamala talks about her taking them to a Christian Black church, and even she says they sing in the choir at this church. Whenever she's in a place where she's speaking to the Black church, she refers to this experience. Whereas when she was running for office in California, her mother- So she went to a Black church once? All the time, apparently, according to Kamala. Got it. But at the same time, when they were doing magazine articles with Kamala Harris's real mother, she said that and they were speaking to certain audiences, her real mother said that she grew up in the Hindu temple and practiced all of the traditions and believed in all the Hindu religious practices.

She was actually a polytheist in childhood.

Right. When she first starts running for office, there's a couple of incidents where she starts referring to this Hindu goddess. Using her- What? She uses this Hindu goddess, I think it's Paavali, who is both... She's both a vengeful warrior and also someone who's very loving. She refers to this goddess as someone who inspired her decision to get into law enforcement and justice. Wait, what? Yeah.

A goddess?

Yes. Hindu goddess inspired her to get into justice. Someone who can be both a vengeful goddess, but also a caring and loving goddess.

Was she suggesting that this goddess was real?

Right. This character in the mythology of the Hindu religion.

I don't think it's considered mythology. I think it's considered real.

Oh, if you truly believe in- Yeah, if you're a Hindu, I don't think it's fake.

I think you think it's real.

It's unclear.

It may be entirely real, by the way. Right. But from a Christian perspective, that's demonic. No, I'm not taking sides, though I have an opinion, obviously. But as a theological matter, those couldn't be more incompatible with each other. You can't.

Unless you're running for political office, right?

Then you can take- Right, but those are the opposites. That's like saying, it's like going to a PETA conference in the morning and cattle rancher conference in the afternoon and saying, I love you both. That's just not possible.

But those are the best politicians. She's right.

Okay, you covered the White House for a long time. You're more cynical than I am. Okay, that's just interesting. She said she was inspired by a goddess.

Right, a Hindu goddess.

Again, from a Christian perspective, a demon. That's what Christians think. I guess in the end, we'll find out who's right.

But she also sang in the Black choir about justice and learned about justice and loving thy neighbor.

Was she a canter in her synagogue, too? Do you know?

I don't know. I don't know. Maybe that What? Maybe that's Doug's role, although I don't know if he goes to synagogue very much. I don't think so.

Okay, amazing. Has she ever talked about the Canadian part of her childhood?

No, not much. Oh. Yeah. That definitely came from her mother and some of her earliest profiles, back when they were just running for her first office as district attorney and trying to make the case that she was a real, genuine person who really wanted the job and had a cultural identity that was close with San Francisco and really made the best case for her as she was running for office.

She mentioned Canada then?

No, Canada was not in the...

But But the Goddess stuff was.

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, for sure.

Amazing. The Howard University years, did she participate at all politically at Howard that we know of?

Well, she has a photo, right, of her protesting at some march on Washington, but that's pretty much the extent of it. She also interned on Capitol Hill with a senator. But other than that, there doesn't seem to be very much political activity going on. Democratic senator? Yeah, a democratic senator. It's very clear that she's really just enjoying being at college, as most of us were when we were in college, just enjoying being at college. I don't think The activist streak was very strong back then.

So I think the first time that most Americans who are not from California noticed Kamala Harris was during the Kavanaugh hearings.

Right. But even before that, When she won in 2016, she was one of the small victories for women at a time when their greatest champion, Hillary Clinton, was vanquished by, at the time, Donald Trump. Right. And so when When she declares victory in 2016, her race for Senate, she tears up her speech and delivers something entirely different, really trying to inspire and encourage everybody who's watching and vow to be the next great fighter who's going to go to Washington, DC, and stop Donald Trump. That's her first message. One of the very first things she does-Was that election night? Yeah. Wow. Election night in November, 2016.

Did she adlib to that speech?

No, I think she and her staff went behind the scenes and rewrote it. Yeah. Yeah, very quickly because they saw that things were not going well for the Democratic Party. One of her first things she did when she got to Washington was deliver a big speech at the Women's March and basically saying, We are here to fight. Would that was the Pink Hat march?

Yeah. I got caught in that by accident.

Most of us who were in the capital were, right?

Yeah. I was just driving to the gym to play squash, actually. All of a sudden- It was over. My car was surrounded by all these fat ladies in pink hats. I remember thinking, I don't know what... I'm from DC. I've been there most of my life, and I never seen all these people on 17th Street.

It was one of those days that was very big. Some protests, you have to really try to sell it as a big protest.

No, no. That was- That was a big march. Yeah. As someone who's really, from the bottom of my heart, pro-women, I just have always really liked women. I started to rethink my on women. Just watching the people at that speech, they were the most physically unattractive, unhappy people I think I'd ever seen in my life. I mean, they were just really a gruesome bunch. It was sad.

There was also a lot of really intelligent feminists from Washington, liberal intelligent feminists who were out in the streets.

They're so unhappy. It was like every unhappy check from Bethesda was there. You know what I mean? Like the moms you see at the grocery store who just hate their weak husbands. I just didn't realize that there were a half a million of those people in the area, but there were.

Yeah, it was very- She spoke at that.

What did she say? Right.

Well, it's very interesting because part of her was still clinging to this idea that a regular agenda was a female agenda. She talks about how you want to talk about women's issues? I will talk to you about finance. I will talk to you about education. Really trying to separate- Do women have something special to add in those areas? It was like she was just trying to say that during the speech, she makes the case that all issues are women's issues.

What's feminist economics look like?

Yeah, that was her point, right? It's just like... But eventually, I think because of the woman's march, she does slip into this agenda, and certainly with the issue of abortion, she really embraced that.

But yeah, her first speech was- The idea is that women should not have kids.

Women should have the freedom to kill their children in utero.

It makes them more powerful.

Right.

Did she mention the Goddess when she said that?

No, this is the new Conal Harris.

This is what- I somehow feel like the Goddess may be inspiring that position, but I can't prove it. Right. Okay, so she gave a talk at the women's march. Jog my memory, was that a big deal? Was she a major speaker?

She was one of many. Yeah. They get all the senators up on the stage at the same time. Right. They each get a couple of minutes. So, yeah, As soon as she got to the Senate, she spent a lot of time just clashing with Trump appointees, right? Because that's what you do when you first get to the Senate. Yeah, for sure. They pick their cabinet and they go through the hearings. Grand stand on the confirmation. If you can make a splash, then you can make a name for yourself. One of her first things, she torments General Kelly, who was widely respected, bipartisan majority of senators who viewed General Kelly as a true public servant. And She was one of the ones that clashed with him and prosecuted him and basically made a name for herself on all the different appointees. And then, yes. Then after that, it was the whole Jeff Sessions Russia thing. She made a big name of herself then, Grillin Jeff Sessions and getting him to admit that if he's rushed, then he gets nervous. That was a whole big viral moment with the dawn of C-Span. Every senator, every congressman is looking for these viral moments.

Yeah.

To springboard them in the future. She really got this reputation as being a fighter, someone who could take on the Trump people and make them look foolish.

What happened with Kavanaugh?

Right. With Kavanaugh, it was a time of desperation for the left. For many senators who were thinking about running for President, It was your chance. I call it the Kavanaugh primary. Whoever does the best against Kavanaugh is going to earn the respect from the left as you prepare your run for President. Yeah.

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And so she spent a lot of time interrupting, forcing, angrily, aggressively pursuing Kavanaugh and trying to get him to trip up. If you remember the famous moment when she made up this story, when she's asking about whether or not he ever discussed the Russia case with any lawyer from this Kasowitch firm in Washington. Kavanaugh is being very careful because he doesn't want to be pushed into a perjury trap. But he says, I can't think of any. Is there a moment that you're thinking about? And she's indicating that, yes, there is a moment she's thinking about. She's like, But you're not going to tell me, are you? Kavanaugh is still being very careful. And it turns out she never had any evidence of this ever happening, but she wanted to get him, wanted to catch him in this moment. And ultimately, reporters were surprised by the end of this great exercise that, oh, wow, she has no evidence that he ever met or spoke about the case with the lawyer from this firm. But, yeah, it was back in the days when anything Russia, Russia, Russia related was hot political news, right? If you could ever just smear anybody with the very whiff of Russia, it was a always considered a great victory, which pales in comparison now.

Yeah, looking back, the stupidity of that was just awe-inspiring. No, of the Russia stuff. The idea that the Trump campaign was colluding with anybody to actually believe that you would have to know nothing about what the Trump campaign was really like, where they were a little disorganized. They were not even colluding with each other. Now, and there was never... I mean, that was insane. It was evidence-free. Russia was not a threat to the United States. There were a couple of other countries that were playing in a huge way in our elections, and still are, no one will ever mention them. It's not Russia, to put it mildly. Everyone in DC knows that. Russia had no role whatsoever in our domestic politics, and they had no agenda that would affect our core interests. So the whole thing was just nuts, and everybody went along with it. Everybody went along with it. Everybody, just from the force of repetition, just because every channel, every newspaper, every day was talking about Russia. People were like, I really think there's something there. What? It just showed how dumb everybody was. It all just hurt animals, including friends of mine for whom I lost a lot of respect.

I was like, Okay, I'm open-minded. I'm agnostic on Russia, and I'm willing to believe anything. So where's the evidence? Do you remember this?

Yeah, I do. It's always very puzzling because it started from this dossier, right? That they always had in their back pocket, but didn't use it during 2016 because they didn't think they had to. But once Trump won, it was the first thing that they pulled out of their pockets. They're like, wow, we can actually use this.

Was Harris big on the Russia thing?

Not too much. She prosecuted different Trump officials. She did get Bill Barr one time asking him if Trump had ever asked him to stop the investigation. He found himself fumbling for words and couldn't really answer the question. She did have some good moments there. But yeah, I think a lot of it was just she was seen as somebody who is fighting. She had this opposing... She was fighting something else, right? And people placed that excitement because she was the one doing the fighting against this force that they were very unhappy about.

So if you were to summarize how she behaved during the Kavanaugh hearings, I think I remember her going all in on the rape stuff or sexual assault stuff.

Right. She was very, very adamant about supporting Christine Blasey Ford, and it was also around the #MeToo movement, right? She was very... She honed in on that as a political force that would help her. So when it came to that, she was just very intent on pushing Christine Blasey Ford as this hero, as this patriot. She repeatedly claimed that she believed her when she first spoke, before she even met her. She repeatedly said that she was a patriot and a hero for coming forward. She really thought that this was the moment that she could really push through and stop Kavanaugh. Democrats didn't have much to go But when they found out that Diane Feinstein had this letter from Christine Ford, who wished to remain anonymous, she confronted Feinstein about the letter. Like, You better address this. Once reports started leaking out about the existence of this letter, she confronted Feinstein and said, You better address this or it's going to look real ugly for you. So Feinstein was eventually forced out to make this letter public to bring them and to bring her into the conversation, even though wanted to remain anonymous. And so this woman was ultimately pulled into the fight.

And senators and Senate staff who went through that. It was a very tough time for a lot of people in the Senate.

Whatever happened, so Christine Blasey Ford, this is all coming back to me. There was a high school party in Bethesda. It always starts in Bethesda, doesn't it? Which is a suburb of DC, of course, in Maryland, Montgomery County. And Cavenagh, supposedly at this high school party, 35 years before, had acted badly and sexually assaulted Christine Blasey Ford. That was her allegation.

Right. That was her...

So then Blasey Ford basically destroyed her life, correct?

Right. Maybe she's still a progressive hero among some, but certainly, we've seen this story before where the Democrats will pull an unsuspecting character to weaponize against the and just cast them aside when it's all over.

Well, exactly. Nicely put. That's exactly right. Like, whatever happened, Christine Blasey Ford is no longer a hero. Right. Right? Like George Floyd. It's like she was useful for a news cycle. They upended her life. And then I don't think they've named any endowed chairs after her.

It makes me think of all the moms who lost their sons in Iraq, how they were weaponized and helped. Exactly. Hold up as paragons of, this is why the Bush administration is evil, because we have this poor woman who's suffering the loss of her son. They would hoist them up and bring them to all the speeches. And then...

Yeah. And now all those moms are against-The moms who have hostages in Israel.

No, it's too little. They brought them on stage, and then it turns out, oh, we can't help your child who's being held hostage. No, it's so smart. We weren't able to help them either, but we were able to use them politically to.

It's funny, all those Iraq moms who were marching against Trump, I mean, rather against Bush. They all had my sympathy, speaking for myself. But now the Democratic Party that once promoted them and called them heroes is aligned with Dick Cheney and his repulsive little daughter.

You still have- You know, like whatever happened. You still have remnants of the code pink out there. Exactly. They certainly aren't the champions that they are in.

No, I'm on their side.

Media no longer They're hailing them as the champions of truth and justice.

Sorry to digress, Charlie, but it's just interesting.

It's a funny- It's a funny- It's the thing I've forgotten about. It is an interesting time to revisit for sure.

But Kamala Harris becomes more a national figure after falsely accusing- Right. Brett Kavanaugh of sexual assault four years ago.

Is that that idea? Claiming, I believe, believe all women believe the victims. Right. This whole me too movement that was around 2018, I believe. 17, Right around this time, the Kavanaugh was brought up and the entire movement was leveraged in this whole thing where it's believe all women. And that's our new platform for the Democratic Party.

So women don't lie ever?

No, especially about this.

Because they're Hindu goddesses or something. They're incapable of lying. I don't know. I don't know about that. It's funny to find out that 51% of the population just doesn't lie. Everything they say is just gospel.

It's just true. Well, you're supposed to because that's Those are the new marching orders. Only it turns out that it didn't go so well.

Does that apply to Candice Owens or just Christine Blasey Ford?

Right. It's just funny to look back.

I'm sorry. I keep interrupting you, but it's just funny to look back. It's like a time capsule. You remember these moments, and in retrospect, they're so completely absurd. It's hard to believe that Martha Radetz and Joe Scarborough and all these other supposedly educated people are saying this stuff with a straight face on television.

Well, especially the #MeToo movement. Believe all women?

Are you joking? No.

How about no? Kamala Harris was one of the first to see this as a politically advantageous position to take. The #MeToo movement. There's video of her marching in San Francisco at a parade, championing the #MeToo movement. Who's along with her noted celebrity Jussie Smollet.

Not really.

He also right beside her in a Me Too shirt.

Juicy Smolet was a Me Tooer also?

Juicy Smolet was a Me Tooer. Back in 2018, and they're both chanting, up, up with education, down, down with deportation. So they're also protesting- I know you're making this up, Charlie? They're also protesting immigration, wearing Me Too movement gear. But what's interesting about that, and if you look at the Me Too movement as a political force, look at what they did to Al Franken. Oh, yeah. He was one of the first democratic victims of the Me Too movement.

I defended him. He wouldn't defend himself. He's such a cuck. He wouldn't even defend himself. He did nothing wrong. Oh, right.

He was a rising political star. People were actively... He had just published a book. People were actively talking about him as maybe he's the answer to Donald Trump. He found this populist movement in Minnesota that pretty much vanquished the Republican Party in the state and was this awkward, weird anti-Trump. People were actively talking about him as a possible presidential candidate. But then when these allegations start coming out about his behavior, who are the first ones to seize on it? All the Democratic women senators who were also interested in running a presidential campaign. I think it was Christian Gillibrand that fired the first shot.

She's the worst. Not her real name, by the way. I can't remember her real name. Oh, really? No, it's all I wish I could remember her real name, but it's not even close to Kirstin Gillibrand.

Anyway. Amy Klobuchar, Kamala Harris, they're all- Klobuchar did that? They all band together and marched to Schumer's office and say he's got to go.

And he actually obeyed them. Right.

Well, him and all his colleagues were, when Schumer pulls him in the office and says, I can't defend you. I can't fight for you. What are you to do? Are you going to fight for yourself and go be raked over the coals for the rest of your life, or do you just go away quietly? It seems in Franken's case, he didn't want to fight.

I know Franken well and have known him for 25 years. Interesting. Yeah. He was a pretty clever guy, has good qualities.

People in the Senate always had good things to say.

Yeah. I mean, I never hated Al Franken, but he was ultimately all he really cared about was left wing ideology and just such a sad, broken guy. And being liked. I think he liked being liked. But again, charming guy, talented guy, more talented than most US senators, for sure, but so weak inside. Sure. I think bossed around by his wife. That was always my impression. Franey from Portland, Maine, as I recall. But the point is, he didn't do anything wrong. And if he had just ridden it out for a week and just let it just hunker down, go to Barbados for a week, come he'd be fine. He was an elected United States senator, and he gave up his seat voluntarily because four ambitious girls didn't like him. I mean, wow, what a loser.

Are you serious? Right. You would certainly expect. More people started fighting back, ultimately. But at the time, they were very afraid of the movement. It was very much- But can you imagine if you were Al Franken and you just dishonor yourself and your family, your kids are ashamed, you go down in history as some sexual assault her, some crypto rapist, you give up your own Senate seat that you really fought hard for just because Kirsten Gillibrand or whatever her real name is, wants what you have.

Can you imagine the regret he must feel.

Right. I think a lot of Democratic donors were not happy with that. Certainly with Gillibrand. A lot of Democratic donors were not happy. She ran for President in Iowa. It ended very shortly afterwards because Democratic donors were still furious at her. She was taking Franken off the table.

She's a completely false person. I'd take Carmela Harris any day over Kirstin Gillibrand. Oh, really? There's something about Gillibrand that's just really...

She's just... New Yorker.

So ruthless. Oh, my gosh.

You have to be.

That's fascinating. Yeah. So Harris joined the chorus against Al Franken.

Right. At the same time, she has somebody in her office that is also under investigation for his own #MeToo stuff when he was back in California. So someone in her close circle, I don't want to get his name wrong, but it was somebody very close who was being investigated by the justice system in California, they ultimately had... He was sued by a woman for inappropriate behavior, and they eventually had to award this woman a big payout because of things that he had done to her in his office in his previous job. When Kamala Harris is informed about it, she has no idea. She's shocked. I had no idea that this was even happening. Well, if he was currently having this case being taken that was already underway by all the rules of the #MeToo movement, you're supposed to get rid of this person as soon as you hear about it.

Execute him, yeah, of course.

But to have someone on her staff who was involved in this whole situation and then suddenly claim ignorance when the ruling is issued, it really doesn't pass a smell test.

Well, also, I mean, Kamel Harris got her job because she was having sex with a married older man, Willy Brown, and then she was Montell Williams' sidepiece. So it's like, I'd love to know her actual perspective on sexual politics. It's a little bit different from maybe what she's saying. You know what I mean?

Right.

I mean, if there's one anti-feminist in the state of California, it's Willy Brown.

Although he very much loved to see himself as a feminist.

No, but I mean, in real life.

But he would host these events that featured only women, and he would talk about how these were great woman empowerment summits.

I think they're known as ladies for one thing. And second, look, I like Willy Brown. I'm not attacking Willy Brown. I think he's hilarious because I think he's a little bit more honest. Very honest. If there's anybody whose life violates the principles of second-wave feminism, it's Willy Brown. Honest. I mean, really. Willy Brown?

Right. I think that's right. Even Bill Clinton described him as the real Slick Willy. Did he really say that? Yeah.

Oh, that's so good. Now you're making me like them both because you just like flashes of honesty wherever you find them. Right.

Willy Brown was this character in California politics that couldn't be brought down by corruption. Corruption, but he was always teasing and joking about corruption.

If you're having sex with Willy Brown in order to get a job, whatever, you can deal with your own conscience and with your own Hindu goddess on that. But you definitely can't lecture me on feminism if you've done that. I think it's fair to say, right?

I think so. I think when you talk to women, they would agree with that statement.

You gain a lot. You get to be attorney general in the state of California and the US Senator and vice versa. Vice president, but you do give up your right to lecture me about feminism.

Right. Is that fair? I think a lot of women would agree with that.

I think that's right. I'm not judging. Sure. But she's not allowed to judge either. I guess that's what I'm saying.

It's certainly not without evidence. Revenance, right? Yeah. That was the whole- Sorry, you had sex with Willy Brown to get a job.

So why don't you cool it on the feminism stuff?

As you discussed with a previous guest, it kicked off her entire career. Oh, of course it did. It wasn't just that. Willy Brown gave her positions of power on state boards, that paid handsomely. She made up to $400,000 back in the '90s from these positions.

Can you be specific about which positions?

Uninsured. I just think it was an insured.

Just get in trouble. Now I'm getting vulgar again.

Well, yeah. And then she made about $400,000 over a couple of years just from these once a month state board positions. And that's like, you adjust that for today's dollars. That's like almost a million Oh, yeah. And then bought her a BMW, helped pay for her wardrobe, really turned her into Kamala Harris.

So there are two ways to look at this. And as a charitable man who instinctively likes women and likes plucky up from the bootstrap stories, I think you could tell that story in an honest way that might make you admire Kamala Harris. Here's this woman who doesn't know anybody. She's from Canada. She She's not from the area, really. She's, I think, from Oklahoma.

She was working at the Alameda County Prosecutor's office.

Yeah, exactly. In the East Bay. She winds up becoming attorney general of the biggest state, and she's willing to do whatever it takes to get that, including have sex with Willy Brown and Monte Williams. If you told a story that way, I'd say, well, morally, it's obviously malodeous. But on the other hand, this woman has a lot of A lot of energy. She's focused. She does what it takes to get what she wants. She's determined. Exactly right. And she's totally self-made.

I think Willy Brown really opened her up to this world of the possibility. For sure. If you're a young prosecutor at the age of 29, you see what's possible, being on the arm of Willy Brown.

You should have sex with Willy Brown.

Why wouldn't you look at that and say, I can seize this for myself as long as I show up and demand it? Willy Brown taught her how to do that. He talks about in his book, in order to get into wealthy white worlds, you force your way into these positions of influence, like on museum boards and the arts and the charities, and you present yourself as this figure, then they'll welcome you into these worlds and they'll hoist you up onto these political platforms.

Okay, that's all fine. I get it. I mean, it's a form of prostitution, but I try not to judge. All I'm saying is, why would you be self-righteous and scolding? She has no right to be self-righteous about anything or scold anyone. She doesn't need to. By the way, she could just, I don't know, tell her story honestly. People might say, I would say, I get it. She made something out of not much, and I admire that. Why does she have to lecture the rest of us about the civil rights movement?

It's because it's politically advantageous at this point. We see that. But it's disgusting.

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But that's Democratic politics. Shut up, honey. You're from Canada.

Stop telling me about the Edmund Pettus Bridge. You got nothing to do with that.

Right.

No?

Right.

She's not from Alabama, right? No.

She definitely Embraced this agenda as her own. Embraced her identity. If anybody questions her identity, she's just like, I'm not even going to take the time to discuss this with you. If you have a problem with me being Black, that's your problem. Being Oh, so Black. Oh, it's hilarious. Right. When you talk to Black women in politics, they know, but they also see her as someone who could do the job.

It's just so fake. She did a Brett Baer show the other night.

Right. It's the first interview I've ever seen where after the interview, everyone tells you, ignore all the substance of everything she said and focus only on the style. All of her defenders are focusing on the style. Like, wow, just the fact that she did this interview, she won.

Whereas-do an interview with Brett Baer, that's so mean. I mean, it's all so stupid. But I didn't read any of the coverage of it Because the lesson was obvious for me. I didn't need to be told what the lesson was. But I was really struck by how angry and touchy she was, defensive she was, nasty she was, skillless she was. You've seen a million of her interviews. Is she always... Is that a theme that you've noticed in the past?

This is something that was very much a product, that booster on the public stage, which is why she's trying to repeat it. She had a better than expected debate against Donald Trump because she was able to tank Wingle with him and demonstrate that she could go toe to toe.

I thought she did a pretty good job. Not bad.

Right. She needed the opposition force to campaign against. She needs Trump. If she doesn't have Trump, what does she have? And so I think that that was part of the calculus of doing the Fox News interview. It's like, if I can just go against something, if I can just stand tall and get in a fight with Brett Baer, then I look better by comparison.

It's just like a total asshole. I mean, that was just my view. I mean, I don't know. Maybe I'm completely out of it. It's nothing to do with her gender. She just was like, screachy and defensive and mad. Have you seen other interviews like that with her? No. Is that how she always is?

It's very interesting because, and I talk about this in the book a lot, is when she was this democratic champion in the Senate, where she was known for repeatedly fighting and getting angry and doing her utmost to crush Kavanaugh, I think she realized at some point that if I'm going to run for president, I need to be a little more than just this opposing force. I need to have an idea, an identity that attracts Americans to vote for me for president. And so that's when she introduces this concept of a joyful warrior. She makes a hard pivot away from the fighter and goes on Ellen and delivers this elegant soliloquy about the importance of being a joyful warrior, about loving your country and fighting for your country and not being angry all the time. She had multiple interviews where she's like, I'm tired of being mad all the time, and I want to be a joyful warrior.

Did she use the phrase joyful warrior?

Repeatedly. On Ellen in magazine profiles, she completely... And this is actually before Kavanaugh, because she has this reputation of being a fighter in the Senate. Then she pivots to be a joyful warrior around 2018. Then she pivots back to the vengeful warrior when she's fighting Kavanaugh. And then by the time she's ready to announce her campaign for President in early 2019, she pivots back to this idea that, I'm a joyful warrior, and all I care about is speaking truth.

Joyful. So you've looked pretty closely at her life. You just read a book about her. How many instances did you stumble across of joy?

True, genuine joy. Very hard to find. Very hard to find. She's very guarded. She's very guarded. She's a very private person, and she's uncomfortable talking about herself. She talks about it all the time. She's just like, I'm just not comfortable talking about myself.

But she never stops talking about herself, I notice.

Except in the specific ways, like being raised in a middle-class family, being product of her community.

What community is she talking about?

Right, the San Francisco community.

But she's from Canada.

Right. What the hell is she talking about? As a politician, when she's talking about the community, she's talking about her childhood community that she grew up in, leaving the Canada part out entirely and then just pretending she's always been from Oakland, which she's actually from Berkeley, but she doesn't like to talk about it.

Yeah. I am from area, so I know it well. And there are no Black people there. I don't even know what she's talking about. Oh, really? In San Francisco, no. There's like one and a half Black neighborhoods, tiny percentage of the population.

I think San Francisco- Well, she is the daughter of an academic elite, right? Her father and mother- Jamaican guy, too, right? Right. Her father and mother were hard left academics. They were not necessarily the marching and shouters. I mean, I'm sure they went to a few protests, but they were very much intellectual activists.

They were very thought-fun. Can I ask, her father attacked her at one point, didn't he?

Right. And this is for using her Jamaican identity to defend the idea of smoking weed, legalizing weed.

Yeah.

He was horrified by that. It's the rare occasion where he just, without permission, went out and wrote an angry essay, explicitly saying, I wish to categorize Categorically, disassociate myself from this brand that she's selling of her Jamaican heritage being the reason why she supports legalized marijuana.

Yeah, because if you actually are Jamaican, the idea that everyone in Jamaica's Peter Tosh is offensive.

It's offensive. He was very angry about that.

She doesn't get along with him then, clearly. No.

Is he around today? He was forced to take that. Actually, he lives in Washington, DC. What? Yeah.

Harris His father lives in Washington, DC, the father who denounced her. What does he do? Tell me that story. Why haven't I heard that?

We had some reporters from the Daily Mail, which is where I work, and they tracked him down, and he does actually live in a house not too far away from Kamala Harris. It does not look like they spend a lot of time together, if at all. I think the last time he posted photos of an adult, Kamala Harris and him together, were from many years ago before she came to Washington. He does a lot of work with economics in Jamaica and the World Bank, but he's also semi-retired at this point. Yeah, he's just this figure that exists in DC but has no close connection with his daughter.

Has he ever talked about her other than to write an op at attacking her?

He wrote a brief piece about his Jamaican heritage and how Kamala Harris was connected to that. He wrote that for a Jamaican newspaper where he talks about his life and having Kamala at a young age and then becoming distant and eventually estranged entirely from her. Yeah, it's a very sad story. He writes in his book, his book about Marxist economics, He talks about, This book is dedicated to my daughters, Kama and Maya, from whatever relationship we have. It's a little bit of a sad story because it seems like he was pushed out of the family's life entirely after quite some time.

Yeah. I mean, he wasn't at any of her victory parties for her political races.

He did not attend her inauguration. Kamal never personally invited him to an inauguration. I think the Times did a story a couple of weeks ago that said somehow he got an invitation through an intermediary, but he was never asked personally to come by his daughter.Ouch.Yeah. Yeah.

Women who are mad at their dads tend to, not all, but a lot them end up wearing pink hats at women's marches. And in general, if you're a father and your daughter grows up to be a manhater, it's probably your fault.

Right. Fair. You take on that responsibility. You know. Yeah. You know that it's your fault. If you don't have a relationship with your daughter, then that's your fault.

Yeah. If she's running around promoting abortion, it should occasion some soul searching on your part, I would say. But as a father of daughters, I can say that. But anyway, as she comes to DC, speaking of relationships, how and she's chosen by Joe Biden, who has promised America to give us what we really want, which is a female Black vice president.

Well, they totally rejected it during the campaign, when her failed presidential campaign, when she thought she was launching this historic future forward-looking campaign in 2019, in January of 2019, when she announced as her run for President. It doesn't go well.

It goes really badly, and I'm sorry to lie right over that. She announces, how long does she run for president?

She's one of the first out of the gate. She has all the support from many of the donors, many of the major media elites. She has this moment with people like Rachel Maddow who says, I do think that you are one of our strongest candidates, and I do think that you're going to make it to the final finishing line. It's really an impressive effort by the elite in the entire party. They want to see Kamala Harris succeed, and they're very bullish about her chances when she gets into the race.

It's such a funny race. The candidate that Democrats really want is the socialist, but he criticizes the banks, so he cannot be allowed to be the nominee because you can't criticize banks. That's immoral, criticizing banking.

We're a little squamish about universal health care, right? But Kamala Harris- We don't actually want to give Democratic voters anything they really Right. So we have to crush Bernie. She moves herself so far to the left, right before she runs for president. She's become this radical leftist candidate, even more radical than Bernie Sanders himself. She endorses Medicare for all, but when she's up on the debate stage and they're like, But if you have Medicare for All, then this means getting rid of private health care. And she's like, That's right. I agree. And then when she gets enormous pushback, media coverage, the health insurance industry, then she walks it back and says, Well, actually, I don't mean that. I'm sure private insurance will still be around, and I want it to be around, even though there is socialized health care. Well, it's not really how it works. But if you can pivot quickly to say that, and then she makes the same mistake again. This is when you obviously have a core Democratic Party that wants to see you as this leftist champion like Bernie Sanders is. Right. Conal Harris really wants to be that figure, and it's doing her most desperate attempt to win the Bernie Sanders mantle.

But the Bernie Sanders supporters are very angry with her for even pretending to be a Socialist, Democratic Socialist, right? Because she's not. I think that there was a very- Well, she's a tool of the banks.

Right. And the neocons and every other evil institution in Democratic Party land.

Well, she's willing to do the bidding of anybody who can get her in power. She was never known in California as someone who is... She talks about this. We keep going back. I'm sorry. But she talks how much about how she fought the big banks to win this massive mortgage settlement after the disastrous 2008 crash.

Yeah.

But yeah, she didn't lead the charge. It was led by Eric Schneiderman from New York, who rallied any progressive attorney general of a state. Many who have gone on to have successful of political careers and be like, this is our moment. If we fight the big banks and earn a bigger settlement, then we are automatically seen as champions. And so she fought the big banks and got a bigger settlement, but she still settled.

Well, she's a tool of the rich. I mean, it has been always the banking industry, the abortion industry, the war industry. She's a little foot soldier for industry. I mean, that's what she always has been, right? Right.

Activists have all been very with her unwillingness to take risks until she's running for president, and then she's suddenly for everything. She's for reducing red meat consumption. She's for banning plastic straws. She's for decriminalizing prostitution, despite her mixed record on that. She's for legalizing marijuana. She just totally pivots and becomes this figure who supports every single radical agenda item during the Democratic primary. And yet somehow, she doesn't resonate.

Well, I think That makes sense as a feminist, because obviously, for women, you want to encourage them to sell their bodies like slaves.

Right. And apparently, you go on black-meated to sell this as something that you We need to make- What you want. Liberation. Something about freedom. We need to make- What you need is decriminalization of prostitution and abortion to make yourself- Sell more weed, kill your children. And smoke more weed. And that's about freedom. That's about success. That's the opportunity economy that we want to sell.

That's the agenda of the goddess. So her presidential campaign, despite a vigorous endorsement from white ladies like Rachel Maddow, crashes and burns. The dogs won't eat the dog food, correct? Right.

How bad was it? She goes to Iowa. Once she hits Iowa, her whole life, she's lived in a one-party state, California. The idea there is to get the backing of the elites, the donors, and then raise enough money to just plaster the air with advertising. Then you win. As long as you have the blessing of the elites, then you can pretty much win in California. You don't have to necessarily go on the ground and convince voters. You just need those three things. She goes into this primary in Iowa with the same focus, win the blessing of the elites, raise a bunch of money, run all the advertisements. Then when she hits the ground in Iowa, she suddenly finds that Democrats are not. They're willing to listen, but when they listen to her, they're not satisfied with what they're hearing. They see her on the debate stages making the case for all these progressive policies. But then when she's asked to defend them, she's either walking back or changing her mind on these issues. On top of it all, in the beginning, very beginning of her campaign is when the Jussie Smallet stuff breaks. That's when she rushes to his defense and is first candidate leading the march for justice for Jussie, sends out a tweet.

It's like, Wait, hold on. Stop, Stop, Stop. Here you are making fun of her. She's totally fake. But in one sense, she is a legitimate pioneer. She was the first across not the Edmund Pettus Bridge, but the Jussie-Smollet Bridge. She was there facing off the guard dogs and fire hoses on behalf of Jussie-Smollet. Right.

She led the entire democratic primary field to defend Jussie Small. And then she still hasn't apologized for that, by the way. She still hasn't taken down the tweet.

She is in some sense a civil rights hero, if you define civil rights as like fake hate crimes. Right. Yeah.

Right.

And she's never apologized for that?

No, she's never apologized for it. She expressed regret that it happened, but she never apologized for it.

Was it passive constructive? Yeah, it was very much. That it happened? Yeah.

This is not- Spontane This is not good for people who have real hate crimes. But she still has the tweet defending him as one of the smartest. That's still up. That's still up. Just like the famous Minnesota bailout of the protesters in Minneapolis. Yeah. Yeah, that's still alive, too. She's not one to apologize very much. I don't know. It happens with a lot of politicians. Certainly, Joe Biden doesn't like to apologize for anything.

Yeah, it's so telling. Whereas if you want to be strong, is the only way.

Right. People saw her as the anti-Biden. When she first goes out on the debate stage and basically calls him a racist, when they ask him about the accusations of women of unwanted touching and groping, she says, I believe all women, and they have the right to say that. She's one of the first ones to tackle Biden as this out-of-touch dinosaur who no longer belongs on the national stage. She said as much during the debate, trying to be nice. I'm not calling you a racist, but let me call you a racist. That's essentially what she said.

Because he wasn't enthusiastic enough about bussing?

Yeah, she pulled that from Biden's past, but at the same time, he's out there talking about the good old days when he worked with segregationists and everybody got along. Certainly, the modern left was like, Well, you can't do that. I don't want that.

I don't want Joe Biden. Busting was a disaster. It didn't help anybody. It crushed white kids. It crushed Black kids. It destroyed public schools in the United States. I'd love to hear someone explain why bussing was a good idea. In what sense was it a good idea? Where did that work exactly? Give me the numbers to show that it worked. It didn't work. It was horrible. The people who promoted it sent their own children to private school. I don't know. The fact that she got up there on stage and yelled at Biden, who's a pig? I'm not defending Biden, but the one place he's been right in his career was to oppose bussing. Bussing was immoral as hell. Nobody called her on it. It was What was weird?

What was weird is that she was projecting herself as somehow this victim of segregation and suffrage. Growing up in Berkeley, California.

Growing up in Montreal, I mean, that's where she went to high school.

That's where she went to high school.

Was there a lot of segregation in Montreal?

That famous moment, that little girl was me. Oh, shut up. Talking about riding the bus from one wealthy California enclave to another, right? And trying to embrace this idea that she was somehow this great civil rights figure. It was rather offensive to a lot of Black people who were just like, no.

It was just insane. What about white people? I mean, the whole thing is nuts. The idea that, whatever, without even getting into bussing. But I would just love to hear someone defend bussing on its own terms. Where was bussing a success? Who benefited from it exactly?

Right. When they asked her, Well, what's your position on bussing? She found herself unable to explain. They really were like, Well, why are we talking about bussing anyway? It was an attempt to just find any cuddle at all to hit Joe Biden. No, it's totally right. It made a big splash.

Did she really say that? Why are we talking about it in the first place?

No, that's what I'm saying. But she did. When they asked her for her position on bussing, she's like, Well, I don't know. She didn't have a good answer of whether or not she would support federal bussing. Gosh, this is really... You don't have to- It was such an obvious political attack.

Well, but you don't even need to try that hard to expose her. She exposes herself. It's also fake. A lot of bad things going on in the world that honestly, not many of us can have effect on. Rising crime, failing schools, a tanking economy. What can you do about that? Well, not a lot, but you can get your own house in order. And above all, you can spend money with merchants, with companies that support your values that are making this a better country and not a worse country. But how do you find those companies? Well, that's where Public Square comes in. Public Square actively curates the best products from America's small businesses to help families lead happier, healthier, more productive and connected lives. That means fewer errands to big box stores, lets searching to find wholesome alternatives to the garbage being offered in our culture, and more quality time spent with people you love most. If you want to fix your country, you've got to strengthen yourself and your home, and you need to spend your dollars where they do good and not bad. Rebuilding America takes place one small change at a time with wise spending, supporting people who support your family, not funding people who hate you.

If you want to do that, publicsquared. Com is the answer. Was she ever popular in California? Did you ever find evidence that she had a majority- Just widely accepted.

She won her elections pretty handily, except for the one race She had problems with was running through the attorney general's race. There was a formidable Republican still in the state, Steve Cooley, who posed a pretty big threat.

But did she... I've often heard people say, but I've never checked it myself, that when she ran for President, she did not have anywhere near majority support in her own state. Right.

Is that correct? That was the big problem is that she thought she could use California as a springboard. Like, Obviously, they will rally around me in California and push me forward as the next great leader of the Democratic Party. But people in California did not. She was so low in the polls in California, she had to quit before she got to the California primary because they obviously favored Bernie.

Yeah. Well, Bernie is not allowed because the donors didn't like Bernie. Right.

There was that. Well, and then the biggest, I think the moment that was critical for her campaign, she was still limping along even after the Biden attack. Some people liked it, some people didn't. And more importantly, the people who were really in charge of the party and who was going to win were not happy with it. I think that's why she pulled back. Like with Biden's record, and if you're a Democrat A young, rising Democrat, and if you really want to take out Joe Biden, if you go at him hard for about four or five months on his record, you can pretty much turn the entire... I think you could have turned the entire party against him. But because was seen as maybe the only one who could defeat Donald Trump, I think that there was a lot of force from the establishment Democratic Party that's like, Look, just leave him alone. He might be what we need.

It's just crazy that the anti-white party, in the end, nominated an old straight white guy.

Right. Blowing past the- Out of a position of fear, right?

The fake Black lady, the gay guy who may not even really be gay. I don't really know, but a guy who claims he's gay anyway. And they pick a 76-year-old straight white guy?

Really? With all this baggage in history of Democrats past, right? It's like...

Yeah, it's just interesting.

The moment that if Effectively ends her campaign, as I was saying, is the moment that Tulsi Gabbard had the courage to get on stage and call her out as a fake progressive.

Yeah, as a warmonger.

Right. I think that really deepsixed her campaign, crushed her. She was never able to recover from that. There was several attempts at reboots, at one point, standing for her censorship of President Trump on Twitter, that somehow she was going to leverage her entire political reboot on this idea of censoring President Donald Trump or even progressives like Elizabeth Warren. We're like, what are you doing?

How is that even legal?

This doesn't even make any sense.

Weren't she the attorney general?

You're supposed to be a- I think you're supposed to support free speech as part of the Constitution.

Yeah.

But at the same time, she delivered a speech to the NAACP that said, I will increase the number of attorneys at the Department of Justice to go after hate speech and misinformation on social media. And these social media companies better be very afraid for what I want to do.

Yeah, don't give up your guns.

We need to hold them responsible for everything that's posted on their platforms.

Yeah, for criticizing us. It shouldn't be allowed. How do people like that, who weren't even meaningfully attached to this country in any way or understand what it is, How do they get positions of power? I don't understand. How could someone like Kamala Harris, who obviously doesn't like the United States, but doesn't even really understand it, she gets to administer our laws? There's something wrong with our system, don't you think?

Right. I think it's very much focused on how can we find a willing participant to do everything we say and be willing to be flexible on a number of different issues. Someone who doesn't have any core values is easier to manipulate. Yeah. And I think that they saw her as somebody, which is part of the reason why they chose her as vice president. This is someone who obviously has the support of the biggest donors, who also has been out in the streets during the George Floyd protests backing the idea of these protests. What better person to be President Biden's running mate than the person who accused him of being a racist?

Then the lady from the HR Department, which is what she really is. Right.

Bring That was how she leveraged her way into the front of the pack, right? It was during the entire Black Lives Matter, George Floyd protests of 2020 that tore up the entire country. I think that many in the Democratic Party thought that she was necessary to tack on to Biden, who clearly had his problems during the debates on Black issues, suggesting to Black families that if they didn't play the record player at night, they were raising their children wrong and telling all these bizarre stories of relationships with Black people and we're just totally out of touch. I do think they felt that they needed to put the Obama coalition back together. If he was going to have a chance of winning. In order to do that, you need a person of color on the ticket.

Yeah, I think that's the rich white liberal way of understanding Black people. I bet you money that Biden in the end will wind doing better with Black voters than Kamala Harris. I bet you money. I mean, I'm often- It clearly was in South Carolina, right?

When he won all the Black vote in South Carolina.

Well, yeah, because Jim Clibern- Which is why he became the nominee after South Carolina, and they found out that Black people actually like him and will vote for him, then it was time to clear the field. And I get that. And I bet you- He was the vice President for the first Black President. Well, yeah, but he's just also... He's a little bit slightly more authentic than her. She's so obviously fake. But what do I know? I do know that she's Rachel Maddow's version of a Black candidate. You know what I mean? But anyway. Okay, so she gets chosen by Biden. Was there any, jog my memory, real contest? Were there other people under consideration?

Right. Because he famously came out when he's trying to seal the deal Bernie, he comes out during a debate in the spring saying, I will choose a woman vice president, and got a little splash. Nobody remembers the substance of the debate, just that headline, right? Yeah. Then it became, as he's exploring the idea, there's a number of women he really liked, but certainly on the top of the list were some of these figures like Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, who he felt was this fun rising power in Michigan, who was populace when she ran for office and had this idea of fixing the damn roads. That's just music to the ears of this future president that just wants to fix infrastructure. That's one of his biggest issues. He was certainly attracted by her. Amy Klobuchar was also someone else that he was interested in bringing on board, someone who he thought would be good. But it became very clear that, and certainly his campaign advisors as well, believe that, no, it's not just enough to have a woman on the ticket. We need a woman of color on the ticket. Because if you look back at Hillary Clinton, she lost a lot of the Black vote because she chose- What does that mean of color, by the way.

Right. It's dependent on the people that vote for Democrats. A big part of their... So I feel like he really wanted to pick a Gretchen Whitmer or an Amy Klobuchar. And certainly the Biden family was not happy with the idea of Kamala Harris as vice president. She's the one that actually came out and attacked him for being a racist. So when it became clear, if you remember Hillary Clinton, she chose Tim Kaine, who'm one of the most vanilla people in the Senate, as her running mate, and she also lost a lot of the Black folks. So the smart people consultants in Washington are saying, The times demand that we choose a woman of color, a Black woman.

They are the dumbest people I've ever met.

Biden looks at this, these options, and he has on his top of the list, as he's heading into it, it's Kamala Harris, Susan Rice, who he has a good relationship with from his time in the Biden administration or in the Obama administration. Those are his top two picks. The fact that Susan Rice is even being considered seriously shows that they do not want Kamala. Susan Rice was Jill's favorite, but ultimately between his conversations with his donors, with his advisors, and certainly with Obama himself, he was urge to put the past behind him and choose Kamala Harris.

It's interesting. I know Susan Rice pretty well, and I think she's a scary person who's motivated basically by hate, but she's capable. She's a real person. Kammerharris is not a real person. It's totally fraudulent. Just DEI pick. But Susan Rice is not. Susan Rice is a pretty serious person.

If you had- It might have been difficult to run a campaign with Susan Rice, right?

I don't know. I feel like she may have- I've always been impressed by Susan Rice, even though I fear Susan Rice, and I think, I don't think she's a particularly good person, but I Definitely have some respect for Susan Rice. She was my neighbor for years.

Oh, really? Yeah. For any conservative, they would see Susan Rice as the face of Ben Gazzi, and why would you ever want that?

Well, the whole Bengasi story was bullshit in the first place. And the amount of lying by conservative media about Bengasi enrages me. The point of Bengazi was they were moving weapons from Gaddafi's weapon stockpiles to Syria to fight an undeclared war that only hurt the United States. And a lot of those weapons are going to Islamic extremist groups. And that was the actual story. And that was suppressed because the neocons didn't want to talk about that. I just sat in rage for years watching this. I mean, the Bengali story was real. People died. The reason for it. It was a true tragedy. But no one was allowed to ask, what were all those CIA officers doing in Bengali in the first place?

I think it was Rand Paul. He was the only one.

Did you ever hear anyone ask, what was that? Wait a second.

Why? Yeah. Yeah. I'm fascinating.

Just as someone from DC, I'm like, wait a second, why were there that many CIA personnel in this one town? And I remember asking that myself in television and having a producer say to me, That's not really the story. And I was like, Well, actually, I think it is the story. It's part of the story anyway. It's the context of the story. Sorry, I've been mad about this for a decade. No, I'm only saying that I'm not- Susan Rice, right. I'm not endorsing anything that Susan Rice has ever done. I think Susan Rice is one of the reasons that the country is so screwed up right now. All I'm saying is if your job is to run the government, you don't want to pick someone who's pathetic, like Kamal Harris, who's not done a single thing in her entire life and is just clearly not a capable person, can't make a decision, doesn't have a clear vision.

Doesn't have much experience, had never done anything. Even Obama delivered a great speech that everybody thought was the... Had healed the nation.

Obama is a talented guy.

He was a figure, right? Kamal Harris was never a figure.

Exactly. Susan Rice- They really wanted her to be.

They started by calling her that female.

It's just your classic rich white liberal view of the world. All that matters is your skin color. It's not so different from the segregationist view of the world, which they also supported, their parents supported in the Democratic Party. It's just like all that matters is what color you are. Anyway, whatever. Don't get me going. But okay, so they pick her. What's her relation? You say, Jill Biden was actually for Susan Rice. What is the relationship between Kamala and the once she gets chosen.

I really think that Joe Biden felt that Kamala would be his buddy. He really wanted a buddy vice president, and he really thought Kamala could rise to the occasion and learn how to be a good vice president because he had been a vice president. He knew what it took. For eight years. For everything you can say about Joe Biden, he was very deferential to the president, and he was very loyal to him and worked very hard. Obama is not a warm, glowing figure that wants to be friends with everybody. But Biden wormed his way into a buddy-type relationship with Obama. They actually got along pretty well when they were in office, despite obvious frictions between the two camps. That always happens. But I think that he thought that Kamala Harris would drop everything and become wholly united to his vision and his campaign. But they found out very soon after they took office that no, Kamala Harris had no interest in being Joe Biden's buddy, had no interest in taking hard issues off his plate or defending him. I think it was very clear from the moment she got into office, she was here for the next step in her career, and she was going to do everything possible to preserve her political future and not waste it on this aging Joe Biden, who is clearly on his way out.

Nicely put, Charlie. Wait, so you're saying that Joe Biden picked a ruthless careerist loyal to no one but herself and was shocked to discover that she was a ruthless careerist loyal to no one but herself.

And someone who was not competent. And she's dumb.

Wow. Do you think they were really surprised by that?

I think so. I think Biden really thought that she would rise to the occasion and realize the nature of the job.

Well, he was senile then, huh?

Yeah, I guess so. But yeah, it became very clear that she was not there to help him. She She was there to the next step in her career. And she has this aspect goes back throughout her entire career, right? She rises with Willy Brown, and then when Willy Brown leaves office, she kicks him under the bus, basically saying, If he commits any crimes, I'm going to throw him in jail. You kicks him under the bus as someone that's no longer politically relevant. She said that? Yeah. When she's running for district attorney, that's all people wanted to talk about. This is the woman who dated Willy Brown. She's obviously corrupt. She's like, no, Willy Brown, I'm done with him. He has no influence on me, even though he's behind the scenes raising money for her. She essentially throws Willy Brown under the bus.

I don't think it's a good idea to date Kamala Harris. That's the picture that's emerging. Right. Do you agree with that?

Certainly not in her early career. No.

She didn't eventually- I just want people listening this to remember, do not date Kamala Harris.

Unless you're Doug Emhoff, and then perhaps you can get remarried to a 50-year-old woman who has a career path into national politics.

He's pretty tough on the ladies, though. I mean, he runs a tight ship. He'll smack you in the valet line if you get mouthful.

There's been some great reporting at the Daily Mail about that.

I'm getting ahead of the story. Joe Biden thinks that Kamala Harris is going to be his little friend. His little Black friend, actually. His cool Black friend.

Or certainly a supportive, supportive, a supportive force to ease up all the tension he's getting from women and Black people. Maybe everyone will help. Try to make the ladies settled down. Yeah. Because Obama did this to Biden, right? Anytime he had a thorny issue, he'd be like, I'm going to put Sheriff Joe in charge of this, and he's going to take care of it. Biden realized what Obama was doing, but he just grinned and be like, Yeah, I'm Vice President. This is what we do. So right away, the first thing for Kamala Harris, it's like, We need you to take a thorny issue off our plate. We're going to put you in charge of immigration. And we all saw how that went, right? Yeah. She was very adamant about, I'm not in charge of immigration. I'm not the immigration Tsar. I'm only in charge of root causes in the Northern Triangle. She was very adamant about that. Even correcting Joe Biden behind the scenes when he's in Congress, he's like, And Kamelen is going to take care of the immigration problem. And she would be like, Actually, no, Mr. President, I am only handling the root causes of immigration.

Maybe it's Mayorkas or somebody else that's actually going to handle the immigration problem for you because that's not my job. But now we have this whole thing. She was never the border Tsar, but she was in charge of the messaging on immigration when she made her trip to Guatemala and told migrants, Do not come. If you come, I believe you will be sent away. Well, we all saw how effective that messaging was. It's very clear that the administration really wanted her to take this issue off the plate to be the messenger on immigration, and she wriggled out of that assignment. Ultimately, did she succeed in any aspect of the root causes? I think they might have some metrics to say she did.

Did she fix Mexico?

She certainly didn't fix any root causes as we know of.

It's also absurd. Root causes is always a dodge. Not that there aren't root causes, there are. But whenever you see a politician pivot from Well, let's get to the core. The problem. To its root causes, you realize that politician is just punting. Right. Yeah. What was, in the end, Joe and Jill Biden's view of Kamala Harris?

Disappointment, I think. I think they really hoped she would rise to the occasion. There's reporting done that Joe Biden said that she was work in progress just two months ago. He still believes that she was making her way, but probably hadn't risen and seized the imaginations of the American public as well as they had hoped as being this transformational figure, historic figure, right? How can you not just instantly become an American icon?

Yeah.

But with Conley Harris, it was a very big struggle.

American icon.

Certainly, Obama was an American icon, right? Yeah.

She's a member of the master race, so we have to worship her. But no, that's not how it really works. In the end, if I can just restate the obvious, Obama, who I think was evil and bad for America, but he was really talented. I don't think it was because he was Black, he's just talented.

No, he was very talented and very... But it was people like Joe Biden who's like, wow, he was the one on the record crazy him for being an articulate Black guy. Exactly.

It just shows how racist the rich white liberal is because all they see in Obama is Black. They're like, oh, we just get some Black person in here, someone we can call black. That person will become an American icon. It's like, no, you have to earn it.

Imagine if you're Kamala Harris, you're brought into the Democratic Party as this transformational figure, as this icon. They view you as the female Obama. It's very insulting, right? Because they don't- It's so insulting. It's insane. This happened with Tulsi Gammer, too, because if you remember, and she's done a number of great interviews with Rogan, with you, where she talks about how when she first got, when she was first elected to Congress, the Democratic Party immediately brings her into the higher echelons of power, not the important ones, But the ones- She was vice chair of the DNC?

Yeah.

Bring her into these positions because she's seen as this obvious person that we need to center our agenda on to show how diverse and how open we are to new personalities and new people and how fresh and young and interesting we are. The minute she diverts from the... She talked about this, how she was celebrated by all Democrats. Of course. The minute she diverts from the agenda to warn about war in Syria, which is something she profoundly believes in, war. She's been to war. She does not like war. But the minute she diverts from the agenda, everyone's like, Oh, I'm so sorry. Your political career is over, and now we're going to ostracize.

They never listened to what she said. I mean, her views didn't change.

No.

She believed that when she got elected from Hawaii, but all they saw was the way she looked. Because they're racist, and they judge people on the basis of race. That's the definition of racist. They saw her and they're like, Oh, she's not white, therefore she's great. They never heard a word she uttered.

Even when she ran for President, they just ignored her.

Well, by that point, they hated her because they finally picked up on the fact that she was against their whole agenda.

She took out one of their star people.

Well, she's tough and she's great. She's genuinely tough.

She believes in things.

She's not fake tough like Kamala Harris Great. It's like on the verge of tears when Brett Bayer asked her a question, it's like, oh, my gosh. So, Jill Biden is very famous in DC. This is a product of my reporting from living down the street from her as a real bitch, as someone who's tough and nasty.

And I always- Tough girl from Philly, and she's on the record saying, I am willing to forget the attacks. I will never forgive.

Yeah. I mean, She's that... I mean, that's certainly her reputation in DC. Over the 35 years I lived in the same city as her, she was definitely regarded as a bitch. So I always wondered, how did she get along with Kamala Harris?

Now, I don't think they ever got along. I think, and it was very clear in events, they say the things like, We're so proud of you. Thank you, Kamala. Yeah, right. When she was selected, Joe Biden was there to offer cookies and pretend that everything's normal. But yeah, you don't forget those kinds of attacks against your husband.

Good for her, by the way. I'm on Dr. Jill's side on that one. Right.

You're obviously have been in politics for a very long time, so you're used to people attacking your And certainly with Joe Biden, he was attacked for... He always wanted to be President, and he was always pushed aside by the elites, so she did have a chip on her shoulder. Yeah, fair. Yeah. And even Joe Biden himself. I mean, when they finally reach this position, they are people who were repeatedly thrust out of the conversation and pushed aside and mocked and belittled until they needed him. And so, oh, but wait, you get four years and then it's time for you to go. We're done with you.

So What happened? I mean, this just happened this summer. Yeah. But it's maybe because it did just happen. It's hard to understand exactly what that was. What do you think that was? And did Kamala Harris have a role? I assume she had a role in pushing Biden out, of course.

Right. The official narrative is that she woke up one morning and had pancakes and bacon with her nieces and was working on a puzzle. Joe Biden called her out of the blue and said, I'm getting out of the race and I'm going to endorse you for president. Then she jumped and got on the phone. Within 12 hours on the phone, she wrapped up the entire nomination.

That's the story?

That's the official story. Is it actually?

Yeah.

So this is the- She single-handedly got on the phone eating anchovie pizza and sweats, wearing her sweats and made enough phone calls to where she could wrap up the entire nomination in a day.

So this is the Soviet- That's the official. Where they just tell lies that are so absurd. They know we're not going to believe them, but they don't care. They have actually... I missed all this. That was the story they told.

That's the official story.

Well, that's just Soviet. I mean, that's just absolutely crazy. Yeah.

But we know for three weeks, maybe four, from after the debate in June to the day that Joe Biden announced that he was stepping down. There was a furious amount of activity behind the scenes. Pelosi, Schumacher. You know that Kamala Harris has to publicly backing Joe the whole way. But what are her people doing behind the scenes? Is there no effort to make sure that you're being considered? Come on. To be his heir, which is your rightful position?

These are politicians. Politics is what they do. Right. I mean, that's why they got into this. That's how their brains work.

There's people behind you who are working. Of course. Of course, you can claim to die, Billy. I was doing nothing. There's people who support you, who will get power from you if you are elected that are working on your behalf. That just happens organically out of our political system, right? It's been going on for generations. You have to imagine that there was always is going to be this idea that there might be an actual convention where we go and choose the candidate that we want.

There might be a democratic process.

Yeah, like a democratic process. What do they call it? A brokered convention?

Yeah, or democracy, I think they call it.

I think, yeah, something like that because it's so fragile, so very fragile, but so very strong.

Well, that obviously doesn't exist. If your presidential candidate gets the job without anyone voting on it, then that You don't have democracy. Right.

I think that Pelosi and people did want to see a choice because they had hoped that the strongest candidate would emerge. I think a lot of the reason why Biden ran for re-election in the first place is because he and many in the Democratic Party, and certainly In 2023, nobody thought that Kamala Harris could win a race for President against Donald Trump. Not even win a primary. They just didn't think she was ready.

Right.

That's what's so fascinating. When I published the book, a lot of what I was reporting and researching was '23 in DC, when Washington DC had thoroughly rejected her, and we're even having conversations of why not get rid of her entirely on the ticket? We need somebody else if Joe Biden's going to win again. So we went from there. I mean, Washington's cruel, right? You show up and you are not ready and you make mistakes, as she clearly did during her first 33 years, and that's pretty well chronicled, then they turn on you. They don't see you as valuable. And they had officially, most of Washington thought she was a complete joke. She didn't have... There's not these defenders or people who actually want to see you succeed in Washington. They're all rooting for your failure, and they only respect you if you prove them wrong. And Conal Harris clearly wasn't proving them wrong at this point in '23. So when she's ultimately kept on the ticket, it's for obvious reasons. We can't just kick her aside and bring Gretchen Whitmer in to save the day to run with Joe Biden. Right.

It's tough. It's tough.

You're beheld by the same identity politics that you embrace to get her to this position. Oh, yes.

You're hung by your own petard. Yes, that is... I mean, it was obvious this was going to happen. I wasn't surprised at all. I was a little surprised that she picked Tim Walls. If you want a gay guy, want to just go with a Buddha judge. What was the thinking there?

I don't know too much other than what's been reported, right? It's just that ultimately, she selected Tim Walsh. She had a prior relationship. In fact, Tim Walsh first appeared on the campaign trail when she went to Minnesota to visit a Planned Parenthood clinic for being the historic first vice president to actually campaign at a Planned Parenthood clinic. At an abortion clinic. Tim Walsh was right there cheering her on.

Kind of wholesome, uplifting deal. Right.

Like, this is what we're for.

These are totally normal people. Right.

I think that she met him there and at various points in her career and found him to be an entertaining figure, likable figure.

Likable figure. We met at an abortion clinic. Got along real well. He seemed fussy and bubbly, and so I thought I would pick him. They actually met at an abortion clinic.

I don't know if that's the first time, but that was definitely a pivotal moment. It was like, Okay.

Wow, I didn't know that.

It's one of the first times you see Tim Walls on camera, which I didn't recognize him at the time, but going back and looking at her speeches there, he's right behind her clapping the whole time.

You assess people by what they do, but also by their relationships. Who are they close to? In her case, I'm looking at the men in her life, and I see, well, obviously, Montell Williams and Willy Brown. I know both of them. I like them both better than the men currently in her life. But the men now in her life would be her dad, who is not in her life. Not in her life. Writing an op at attacking her, not invited to her own inaugural. You see Tim Walls, who is, I guess her little gay friend or whatever, but creepy guy hanging out at abortion clinics together. Then you see her husband, the nanny impregnator who smacked a woman in the face. What is that?

When I did the reporting from the book, and I certainly did not pick up on this, but in Washington at the time, he was widely celebrated, widely liked. People in Washington, DC, really liked Doug Emhoff. They thought he was this gregarious fun character. He looks like it actually. That loved being in power and was just doing the best he could to back up Kamala Harris. He would do all these panels about how his number one job was to defend this idea of having a strong woman in office.

Well, they love the beta male, and it's always the beta male was punching women in the face, but whatever. Yeah. But where did she meet him?

Unfortunately.

What is that?

They met, but right, I think it was right as she ran, right after she won her second term. I don't know, it would have been in 2014, but right as she's getting ready to go national. And she talks about in her book how it wasn't easy to be a political figure being a single woman. Talks about how she was treated differently and how it was a struggle. I do think ultimately, I'm sure they had a great dating relationship and that they found enough in common to where they felt that it was worth pursuing doing- Do you think she let him smack her around?

I don't see that. No.

I think Doug's been sufficiently... Tamed. Kept in his place. Yeah. He's been tamed by the... Despite all the reporting of who Doug was before, he has definitely been in his place and realizes his job and he's enjoying the benefits of being a man who supports strong women. I think that's why a lot of people... I think that was a step too far for a lot of the people that spoke to the Daily Mail. It's like, no, you are not this.

But they all are. Any male feminist has probably hit a woman. I mean, that's the whole point of being a male feminist is to hide the fact that you treat women like that.

Hide the fact that you're a monster, right?

Obviously, every woman knows that, by the way. If you just ask a woman, who are the men to be afraid of, is the one who's always telling you how- Is that right? Yeah. Any man who describes himself as a feminist is probably a physical danger to you. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'm from California, so I've seen this my whole life.

And you lived in Washington, DC for a very long time. Yes, exactly.

But Emhoff, did they publicly date? I missed all this. Was it well known that they were dating? Was he a big political figure in California? Who is he?

No, he's an entertainment lawyer. Yeah. And so he was connected by one of Connolly's friends. And I think that they ended up together because obviously it's very good in this time of your life to not be a single person. I think that's, especially if you're pursuing higher office, you don't want to be a single person.

And you shouldn't be. It's right. And I'm not saying this in a mean way. Just honestly, that job is so hard if you're not coming home to have somebody in your corner. You need to have somebody in your corner. Oh, I agree. I'm not, I'm sympathetic to Kamala Harrison that way for sure. Sure.

And they very much talk about Doug as being this figure, someone she can come home and vet to and talk to. Even though she made the decision to go basically be the president when he's at SoulCycle exercising with friends, and he doesn't find out until he gets back to his car.

No, he admitted being at SoulCycle with his gay friends. That's what he said.

Yeah. He said he didn't find- Is this real? I mean, how could it not? Where else would you be? There has to be obvious evidence of that. You wouldn't make up that story.

It's just so unbelievable. Imagine yourself saying that, When my wife got the nod that she was going to run for president, I was at SoulCycle with my gay friends.

I think he said that. That's what he said. Then he said, When I got back to my car, I picked up my phone and called her and she said, Where the F have you been?

Man, if one of my college roommates did something like that, I would call up and say, What are you thinking? I'm sure. She's like, Wouldn't you?

Yeah. I would say, What? You made it. And certainly, yeah, it seems like she very much made the decision on her own without time to think about it with friends and family. Maybe they had had this discussion beforehand that if she ever got the call, she could just go for it.

But doesn't sound like much.

Isn't there... Most politicians are like, Well, I got to think about it with friends and family before I make this discussion.

No, you got to talk to your husband. Right.

Your spouse.

Yeah. Or your wife. At least, right? Yeah, not friends and family, your spouse, the person you're married to. At least your spouse, right. Then your kids. They don't have kids. She doesn't have kids. But yeah, then I guess you're friends and family. But your spouse is the first person you talk to.

At least you should at least have a phone call before you accept it.

But we both should be on the same page or you're not really married, right? Well, obviously. These are obvious things to non-political people. It's not just Kamal Harris. She's not the only one with a fake marriage in politics. Most of them seem to have those. But I just want to say that out loud because it is really sick. It's not normal, and we should just acknowledge that. So we remember what normal is. Normal is when you have a marriage, it's a partnership, a full partnership, where if you're going to make a major life decision, you talk it over with your spouse.

That's my experience.

Well, of course, or else it's not a real marriage. I mean, isn't that the whole point of a marriage?

I think so.

I thought so. Right. Well, it is. I'll just say unequivocal.

I'm not very familiar with the marriages that you're describing.

Well, that's just a roommate situation. Yeah. So, wow. These stories came out in your paper. Can you just describe? Maybe people haven't been reading the Daily Mail. So what are the stories that we've... What have we learned about Doug Emhoff?

Right. That he had this relationship with this pretty professional, pretty successful female lawyer, and that he struck her in the face when they were at a public event together. And then afterwards, he forced his way into her taxi, even after the incident, and basically was like, Well, this is just the product of our relationship. This woman is clearly very upset, very frightened by what he's done. But he doesn't necessarily... There's no attempt to heal, or it just seems like it's the product of what happened that night. And he certainly doesn't seem to repented from that, certainly not publicly.

Okay, but The bottom line is he was dating a woman there in Cannes, France, South of France, at the film festival, but at some AIDS event, as I remember.

Yeah.

And he hits her in the face, waiting out of jealousy, she says, waiting for their car in the Valley Line. I think that's the allegation. Is it real? I mean, it's October of an election year. Do you believe that's a real story?

Certainly. The evidence that we've gathered in the testimony, the evidence from that night is certainly more real than any other accusation we've heard about a lot of men politicians recently. Really? Can you imagine if maybe somebody accused Mike Pence of doing that, right? Would the media actually care about that?

I don't know. That's a whole nother. Mike Pence is a whole nother story, man. I don't know what to think there.

Or any other- No, no, of course.

No, I see your point. That If the partisan positions were switched, of course, it would be- If Donald Trump Jr.

Was slapping women in the face, would that be a big story?

Really hard, spinning her around with his hand. But when you say testimony, can you tell us what that is? You talked to other people who were there.

Well, it wasn't my story at the Daily Mail. I understand. But yeah, the reporters who worked on the story and the editors who worked on the story spoke with a lot of witnesses about what had happened, who recall that day, the day that called them to tell them what happened, and this corroborated evidence with evidence of the flight ticket. There's certainly enough there. And you had a great conversation with Megan Kelly, who came away. Megan Kelly is pretty a sharp lawyer, right? She came away saying, I believe- She's very sharp. It was very interesting to hear her talk about it and say, I believe it all. But she's, A, experienced these type of men that do these things, and B, knows enough to smell Well, whether or not a story is fake. Yeah, I guess- Who does he go to to wipe it all away? Joe Scarborough in this ABC.

That is so funny. Joe Scarborough.

Joe Scarborough was like, Well, what about all this stuff in the tabloy? I said, and Doug Emhoff just looks him straight in the eyes like, We can't get distracted from our mission here.

Emhoff never denied it? No.

I think his team did in some passive language, but he certainly hasn't, personally.

But bottom line, you're convinced, and again, you work at the publication that ran this story, that this is a real person and your reporters- Oh, I've heard people say, Oh, we know who this woman is.

If the mainstream media was actually concerned about validating the story, they could pursue it. But as is often the case when you have an uncomfortable narrative in the last days of an election, I guess we didn't get censored, right? They didn't call it Russian disinformation and ban us from social media.

I think they're trying to just make it go. They really would like it to go away. Yeah, of course.

Which it will. The fact that you're talking about it and Megan Kelly is talking about it is very inconvenient for their campaign.

Look, I just want to be consistent, however. I don't like Doug Emhoff's politics. I feel sorry for him just because his life seems depressing, but I don't like his politics. But I also know that there have been a lot of people whose politics I also don't like who've been destroyed by false accusations of sexual harassment, physical abuse. There's a lot of falseness around #MeToo claims, including people I know. And I had one of them on the other day, Mark Halpern. And so I just want to be fair. And I'm also really uncomfortable with any accusation from an anonymous source against someone we name. We name the person who's been accused, but we don't name the accuser. I just want to say for the record, I think that's immoral. I don't think we should have anonymous accusations, but whatever. It seems very common now. But I just want to make sure that... So you believe they know who this is and this seems like a real thing? Right.

I do believe it. When you have multiple witnesses that are willing to say something, it means that they're deeply upset by what happened. And not only that, they're deeply upset by the person he's being betrayed. It's like a campaign of women. And they saw it happen.

You interviewed your paper If you'd witnessed as you saw it happen.

I think that they were witnesses who were there, who the woman talked to, right? Wow. The woman who... We can't be too Cavalier, but this isn't a Christine Blasey Ford accusation. This is something where multiple people are corroborating it.

And it wasn't 40 years ago.

Right. This is something that happened very recently.

Amazing. Do you think that story has penetrated at all?

Well, certainly you and Megan have talked about a lot, which Yeah. Which has... And Donald Trump made a joke about it. Well, not about the violence story, but he made a joke about the nanny story.

So that story is that Emhoff impregnated his nanny. Right. And that just seems like a fact.

He actually addressed it and said that, yes, it happened.

Has Kamala said anything about it?

No. It's one of those stories, right? You don't ask ask about that if you ever want to get an interview with Kamala Harris again. That's not something you bring up, right? So certainly a lot of media figures aren't interested in asking about that story.

How do you assess the coverage of her? Just meta question here as a reporter, as someone who's really tried to cover Kamala Harris.

Yeah, that's what I've... Because I remember Obama, and I remember how the media was... How they acted during the Obama administration. And if they had actually held them accountable on a few things, then it might have gone better. I think as a journalist, you want to just hold people accountable and puncture through their false narratives, reveal who they really are, expose their weaknesses, warn the American people, this is the type of person that you would vote for. This is how they act behind the scenes. This is who they really are. We're not going to let the politician tell their own story. That's not good for America. That's not good for democracy. You have to know the full story, and you have to have impartial people looking into it.

But Kamala Harris, as a hero of the civil rights movement, has a story, has exclusive rights to her own story, right?

You don't get to tell her story. Right. You can write your book. Every politician writes a book before they run for a higher office. Look at Ron DeSantis. He published a book telling his whole story. But we don't just take the biography and run with it as the next American icon. They have to earn that.

And certainly-Well, we get to ask questions, don't we?

That's what we like to do, I think. Is actually uncover interesting things about people and paint a bigger portrait than just the one that's on their campaign ad, their campaign slogan. So I do find that very rewarding. I think every journalist should find that rewarding. Like, who is the real Kamala Harris? What does she believe in? Turns out not much. If there's any issue she's never changed her position on or one she actually cares about and can speak passionately about it's abortion. I think that's her number one.

Why do you think she's so... Is this someone who never had children? I'm not attacking her. I feel sorry for her. Children are a source of joy, really the only enduring source of joy. So speaking of Joy. I'm definitely not attacking her for that at all. I feel really bad for her. But it's just interesting that someone who never had kids would be so committed to abortion. What do you think that is?

Yeah, I'm not sure. It's obviously something that she has dealt with. She's obviously had people in her life who have dealt with this.

Has she had an abortion? Has anyone asked her?

She's never publicly said anything about it.

She's constantly talking about other people's abortions and abortion, abortion, abortion, abortion. Why is it out of bounds to say, Hey, have you had an abortion?

Because if you had, you would certainly expect that you would champion that moment since it's the expression of human freedom.

If I'm running around talking about how we need How abortion is- Subsidized to appendectomies, then I think it's fair to say, Have you ever had an appendectomy? If there's nothing to be ashamed of, then why does nobody ask her? I don't get that. I'm sick of playing along with all this stuff, I must say. All these weird taboos that only serve one political party, where there's some things you're supposed to talk about, but only in a certain way. Other things you're never allowed to talk about. Certain people have a right to tell their own story. Other people who have no right to talk at all. Who makes these rules? And why are we playing along with them?

Has any pro a choice woman who is in political office shared her experience of having an abortion.

Yeah, I mean, I really, just for the record, don't want to hear about other people's abortions or abortion at all. It's killing. It's super depressing.

But if it is the act of ultimate human freedom, and you campaign on this- Well, they're the ones who are talking about it constantly. So maybe you would consider that this would be- But if Brett Baer had said to her the other night, Madam vice President, you talk about abortion.

Have you ever had one? I mean, I think he would have been fired from his job for saying that. He certainly would become instantly a villain. He wonder, why? If there's nothing wrong with abortion, if you're supposed to shout your abortion. Or like Tim Walls is very obviously gay. I look at him and I'm like, Well, you're gay. I'm sure I'll be attacked for saying that. Maybe he's not gay, but he certainly seems gay.

Right. Immediately say, where's your evidence?

I don't have any evidence. I'm just saying the guy looks super, super gay to me. But they're the ones always running on being like, It's great to be gay. Okay, if it's great to be gay, then why is it an attack on him for me to say that? Why would it be out of bounds to be like, Hey, Tim Walls, you seem super gay. Are you gay? Have you ever slept with dudes? If you asked that question, you'd be fired from your job.

You're just asking that now. It's very controversial, right?

But why would it be controversial? If there's nothing wrong with it, then why is it so offensive to ask that question? This doesn't make any sense.

I think ultimately Democrats feel like these issues are very private, which is why they campaign so strongly. They're so private?

Really? Yeah. You've got a LGBTQ plus parade in San Francisco, New York, Seattle, every big city in the country, people are having sex in the street. So it's not private. They're telling my kids constantly that it's a good thing. So There's nothing private or forbidden or taboo about it now, right? Just to be clear, those are their rules.

Why can't I ask? Then you have Tim Walsh. It's like, Keep the hell out of my bedroom. We're the party of privacy.

But if there's nothing wrong with being gay, which is certainly in a position, in fact, it's morally superior to being heterosexual, Sexual, obviously, they say that in effect, if the State Department is pushing it on every country around the world, then why would it be somehow crazy or out of bounds or taboo or offensive for me to say to Tim Walsh, You seem gay. It's not an attack.

Are you gay?

But you know as well as I do that if I had an employer, which I don't, I would immediately be fired for saying it. It's like, what is that? That doesn't make any sense. And why are we playing along with it? That's my point.

Yeah. I'm not going to ask that question.

And by the way, I wouldn't either, because I don't really want to know about Tim Walsh's sex life. I don't want to know about anyone's sex life. I want to stop talking about our sex lives, actually, immediately. And I want the State Department to stop forcing other people in other countries to talk about their sex lives. I just wanted to clear a truce on race and sex and abortion. I don't want to hear about your abortion at all. I don't want you to talk about abortion. Shut up about abortion, about your sex life, about race. That's the world that I want to live in. But they're not allowing me to live in that world. So as long as they're not allowing me to live in that world, why am I playing along with rules that are rigged against me?

Right.

These are fair questions, right? So why don't you ask Tim Walsh that question? About abortion? No, no. Just say, Hey, Tim Walsh, you seem gay. Not attacking you, but I've seen the video of you doing jazz hands. Yeah. Are you gay? Have you ever had sex with a man?

I don't know if I would have enough evidence to make that question. No, no, no.

It just seems that way. It's my impression. Are you gay? But that would go badly for you, wouldn't it? Right.

I would never ask that question. Not all of I don't have the freedom to ask that question. No, I'm just- Or the same interest in that question, right?

I don't have any interest in it. He's the one who's constantly... He's the one who ran a gay straight alliance where he's talking to children about their sex lives. So right there, that's a criminal offense in my book. You don't get to talk to other people's kids about their sex lives, period, freak. But he's bragging about it. Okay. Why am I barking? You, Charlie, don't mean to bark at you. I don't know. I'm just trying to be rational for a second.

Yeah, it makes sense when you look at what our media has become and when you look at the questions that they ask when they get the privilege. Interviewing a presidential candidate is privilege bestowed on you, and you have to demonstrate that you're worthy on a number of issues. The first person that got an interview with Kamala Harris was the woman from MSNBC who publicly said she didn't need to do interviews, and then suddenly she gets an interview. So that's what our media has become, right?

You're filling me in on so much that I've missed. Who had MSNBC said that Kamala Harris didn't need to do interviews?

Stephanie Rule. Stephanie Rule? She was on Bill Maher and said, Kamal Harris doesn't need to do interviews because it's so obvious that Donald Trump is the worst and that she's the best. I mean, I'm paraphrasing.

Stephanie Rule, the perky business reporter?

From MSNBC?

Yeah, she was a business reporter Really? I think so. Yeah.

I mean, she was the first one to ask. She was the first one to get a major... Well, I guess Dana Basch got the first one, right? With Tim Walls and Kamal Harris. But Stephanie Rule got the first solo down with Conal Harris. I think that's true. And yeah, she publicly said on Bill Maher, then why does she even need to do media when it's very obvious that she's the best candidate compared to Trump.

Wow. That's crazy.

Right.

She's just so great. We don't need to talk to her. That's her position as journalists.

Right.

That's the- And she's the one who got the first interview. Right.

I think it's because I think Trump said something nasty about her. So that obviously- About Stephanie Rule?

Right.

Which is why you instantly get elevated.

I don't know Stephanie Rule. We did not overlap. I once worked there. She's good on camera, but I haven't seen her on TV in a long time because I don't have a TV. But she- Right.

You're free.

Well, I am free, but I also miss stuff, so I'm grateful that you're filling me in. That's amazing that she said that.

Yeah.

I just want to boil it down, and these are just my perceptions, and you can Obviously disagree, but I don't think you're likely to get a Kamal Harris interview.

Hope springs eternal. No, it's very true. It's been reported that she has an enemy's list of reporters because she's very thin skin when it comes to coverage. She hates anything poorly written. I think one of the biggest examples of that was when she was very angry with the Vogue cover that came out after she won the vice presidency. She was very displeased with this Vogue cover of her standing there in her Chucks, her sneakers. She was very upset by that. That was one of the first controversies of her life.

So Vogue was too tough on her?

Vogue ran a very insensitive, racially insensitive, ignorant cover and she was very displeased by that.

Was it a candid? She didn't know she was posing for a Vogue photoshoot? No, she was posing.

She just didn't know that would be the cover. She got to choose the outfits and the background, but that was supposed to be inside the magazine, not the cover. But it was racist to put her on the cover. She was very upset about it. People found it very demeaning. Are you serious? Yeah. It was one of the biggest... Before she even took office, this was one of the biggest controversies of her career. That was the conversation?

Even the narcissism of rich people in this country is just it really doesn't have limits.

Even the Biden team, communications team was like, Can we tone it down a little bit? We don't want this to be the first major controversy of our Ministry. We haven't even taken office yet, and this is already- What was racially insensitive about it?

I'm not sure.

I think portraying her in a casual manner was something she did not appreciate.

I thought she was a joyful warrior.

A joyful casual warrior.

You just can't with someone like that. Right.

But the point is that she has an enemy's list of reporters who don't appreciate her rise to power. Any time that they stray from the official Common Harris narrative, then she's not going to do an interview with you, which is why you have so many reporters being very cautious, very careful. She certainly earned that reputation throughout her whole presidential campaign. I mean, reporters and editors were very familiar with getting angry responses from the way they covered Kamal Harris as a presidential candidate.

I honestly feel like this is like some weird right wing parody meant to discredit people like Kamal Harris. I mean, she's like living down to every stereotype, totally fragile, indecisive, narcissistic. This is not the female leadership you were promised at all. This is discrediting.

Are all politicians narcissistic? Yes, pretty much.

They are, for sure. Oh, definitely. She's not the only one. I just want to be clear.

But also being thin-skinned, narcissistic, very adamant about how you're covered, and very angry with how you're treated, that's...

If she called Vogue racist, then we're dealing with next level of fragile.

I don't think she actually said that, but people close to her were upset of it for that. That's it.

Last question, are you going to make sure that she sees this interview? Do you think she'll watch? Is she going to send this over to her press team?

Yeah, I think I will and see if they have any response. But ultimately-I think that's going to affect her. There's a lot of people who are talking about Kamala Harris in a way that she would not approve of. Yeah. And up until this point, she's decided just to ignore it. But I think there's enough people talking about... You've had some great people on who, including an attorney from San Francisco.

What's her- Armeet Dylan.

Armeet. Very, very... She was not a source for the book, but very insightful. Yeah. Growing up in that neighborhood and experiencing Kamala Harris for who she is. I mean, very insightful interview. And I think there's a lot of people talking about who the real Conal Harris is. I think that's why ultimately she feels like she has to come out and do a media tour because she has to distract from the conversations that are actually taking place.

It's not working well. You'd think she'd feel obligated just because that's how democracy works. Voters have a right to information about you before they vote on you.

Right. But she doesn't feel that way. Well, and obviously, as these news institutions lose the power to control the masses and cheerlead for you, even you don't give them interviews, then what's the benefit?

Yeah, I mean, we don't have a working... It's just North Korean press agency here. So, yeah. Well, bless you and the Daily Mail and anyone else who retains a commitment to telling the truth, imperfectly, because we're people, but trying. I don't think we can function as a free country without it. So I appreciate you're doing it.

Well, thanks so much for having me.

Charlie, thank you very much. Thanks for listening to Tucker Carlson show. If you enjoyed it, you can go to tuckercarlson. Com to see everything that we have made, the complete library, tuckercarlson. Com.