Transcript of Shawn Ryan: Trump’s Betrayal, Iran, Government Spying, Encounters With Demons, and Finding God New

Thank you for coming back, Sean.

Love coming back here.

So, uh, I was thinking about you this morning. You've had this kind of unbelievably weird and varied life, and maybe the weirdest chapter is now unfolding where you somehow wound up a successful podcaster. Probably not something you planned.

Definitely not.

20 years ago, uh, what have you learned from it, from this chapter?

What have I learned? Well, I probably only retain 10% of the information that comes through the studio, to be honest with you. And everybody expects me to be a resident expert on anything. I can't remember shit. And then I think I know something, and I have dinner with you last night, and I realize I really don't know.

I don't either. Yeah, the ignorant meeting the ignorant.

But, um, what have I learned? Um, I've learned I never want to involve myself in the US political system or vouch for any man again. I've learned—

wait, let's just stop there. So you didn't start out a hyper-political person. I remember when your podcast started, my nephew told me about it. He loved it. That's how I met you, because my nephew was so impressed by you. And it was mostly on kind of military issues. And then there was this period where you I don't know, got involved, but you got closer to the political process. And now you're saying you don't want anything to do with that?

No, I never— I just don't. Why? Well, I mean, I think we kind of discussed it last time. I just— everything is a lie. That became like a coined term, I guess. But everything is a lie. I mean, every politician I've sat across from, With maybe the exception of Eli Crane, who I disagree with on a lot of—

Yep.

I feel, I hate that I even have to say that. I don't agree with everything they have to say. Why the fuck do we have to say that? I like Eli. He's very, you know, pro-Israel. I'm not, but he can articulate why he is and whatever. I respect it. At least he's not just regurgitating shit, you know, like most people. But everybody else, it's just, you know, it's been a lie. And, and, and then the other thing is, I mean, which it really shouldn't bother me, but you, you talk to somebody and then it's like, you, you, how dare you platform that person? And it's like, actually, I probably just did you a favor because he just spent 4 hours lying to me on my podcast that you're going to be able to use for his next political campaign. Exactly. Fucking stupid to figure that out, aren't you? But, um, But I mean, it's, you know, and they do. And, uh, and, and I just, I don't know, you know, I put a, a lot of faith in a lot of these guys.

Yeah.

And women, you know, that have come on. And really, I— the only one that really impressed me was Joe Kent, you know, in the long run. Everybody else has just been a a wash or just a complete disaster. Just a lying piece of shit. What about you, Dean?

As we discussed last night at dinner, I am still trying to figure out what all of this means. As someone who campaigned for Trump and told everybody Trump is the option to the uniparty— you got Republicans, Democrats are on the same side, but Trump is not. He's on a different side, maybe even the public side. And then Trump, the last hope, winds up aligning with Chuck Schumer and just joins the uniparty in the most obvious way. At that point, you have to ask yourself, is there a political solution to the problems that we have? And I don't know the answer, but I'm starting to think maybe there isn't.

I don't know.

I feel as discouraged as you do, though I don't articulate it quite as well and forcefully as you do, but I kind of feel that way. But I'm interviewing you, so let me ask you, you're out of politics, so where does that leave you? What matters? What takes its place?

I think— I mean, just— I'm not sure yet. I'm still— we talked last night. I'm kind of going through— not kind of. I'm going through a crazy spiritual transformation. Right now. And, uh, I think, I think God needs to be highlighted, and maybe some, and some good stuff. I mean, um, nobody's— I mean, you just, you can't put faith in, in man at all. And it's kind of sad to watch everybody scurrying around trying to find the next guy, and, and who's it gonna be, and And, and you can already see people just like blindly like putting their faith into another human being, and it's sad. And, and spent a lot of time— I, I became obsessed with evil, like obsessed with it. And, uh, and it started with the kids stuff, which I'm, I'm still— I'll probably never stop that. That's just a passion of mine that I, you know, we I can, I can handle it. Like, I can handle the subject matter, and I think it's important. And I know, you know, we've done a lot of good there, and, um, by educating parents and kids about what, you know, what's actually going on.

And I mean, Roblox, for example, we did an episode on what was going on on Roblox, and I think we took like $5 or $6 billion off the, the cap table in one day, or one week, I mean. And, um, I think, you know, that's good. But, uh, so where am I going?

Wait, can you back up? You became obsessed with evil?

Yeah, I just— well, I think it started, you know, with COVID and, and, and, um, the LGBTQ stuff. And I don't, I don't really care about— I don't care what adults are doing, but, you know, 8-year-old kids, that, that just really bothered me. Like, it still does, really bothers me. And so that's kind of where it started. And then it's just everywhere you look, everywhere you look is a lie. And the institutions are lying, the politicians are lying, everybody's lying. People are manufacturing narratives just to create controversies so they can, you know, boost their views. And I, I don't know who to believe. I don't know what to believe anymore at all. And, um, I mean, every— everything, even here, like, we, uh, what's, what's his name? Steve. Steve, he's a reporter here. The Somalia fraud that's going on.

Oh yeah, Steve Robinson.

Yeah, yeah, love that guy.

He's a great man.

But it just— I just, uh, I got— I just, I don't know, I just became obsessed with like uncut all this shit that's going on in the world, and it's dark, man.

So you felt it was your job to uncover evil? Yeah.

And, and, uh, you know, I, I say that, oh, I can't be influenced, like I don't let advertisers influence me, and I don't let, uh, politicians tell me what to do, even though they're calling me trying to, you know, tell me what to do. Don't talk about the land sale in Utah. Don't talk, you know, don't talk about actually this guy really helped me with my campaign. Actually, I don't really give a fuck who helped you with your campaign. But now I lost where I was going with this.

But you said you became obsessed with evil, uncovering evil. You focused on evil, and that somehow led to a spiritual transformation.

Yeah, well, So it never ends is basically what I'm getting. Oh, I was talking about audience, and I was talking about being influenced. And then, yeah, and then, and then everywhere you go, people are patting you on the back and patting you on the butt, you know, good job, you know, you're doing God's work, you're doing this. And you see the views, and you see the comments, and you see the likes, and you, you see the, all the, the reaction videos, and everybody's just praising you. And, um And it gets to you.

I didn't realize it was getting to me, but it's not the criticism that destroys you, it's the praise, flattery. Yeah, that destroys you because you—

but, uh, they don't know what God wants. So you got all these millions of people, you know what I mean, interacting with you, telling you these things everywhere you go, and it gets to you. And, uh, You know, I did, you know, we talked last night about my last— I just got back from an ibogaine 5-MeO experience. Didn't go great. Found hell. Hell. Hell. And I don't want to go too far into it because I don't want to have a meltdown on your show, but it's okay. But, um, I'm just not ready, you know, to, to dive into it. Um, but, but yeah, I've, I've, I've felt what hell was, was gonna be like. Not like seeing devils and fire and whatever, demons and all that. Like, it was, it was a feeling, and I never ever want to feel that again, ever. So, you know, successful experience, I guess. I never ever want to do it again.

Maybe the most successful experience.

Yeah, it definitely sent me down a new, uh, a new path, and I'm still trying to figure out. But, um, you know, I went to Mass on Sunday, and I'm like full-blown going back into the Catholic Church now. And, and, um, the Here in Maine I went, and the priest was talking about, uh, I want to butcher this, but he was talking about weeds, wheat, and weeds. Have you heard this analogy? And he was— good people are the wheat, and, and the bad are the weeds. And, and every once in a while, well, a weed will come out and he'll start calling out all the weeds, only to become a weed himself. And basically what he's getting at is, you know, we I can sit here and I can call out this evil like all, all the time, you know, and uncover all the fucked up shit that everybody's doing, that everybody, you know, has put their blind faith in. And but in the end, we're all evil. We all have an evil side to us. And then you meet these people and they're very charismatic and you're like, oh man, he seems like a really nice person.

He's a nice guy. Maybe he is, but he's influenced. They are influenced. We are influenced. And I think it's time to— I just think it's time to turn a corner because we all have an evil side. We all are selfish in our own ways.

And it's too easy to call other people out all the time.

Yeah, yeah. And, and maybe they don't realize they're doing— I think a lot of them do. I think a lot of them know, but I don't think that's really necessarily what God wants, you know. The way I used to do it is, um, I would wait until something came across my desk or something came to my attention that I felt really passionate about. Yes, like kids. And, and then I would, and then I would do the thing and it would be so explosive. Um, it would be like the perfect storm. And then, and then all the praise came behind that. And I think I got caught up in that praise. And then, and then I'm now I'm searching, you know, for the what's the next one, what's the next thing, you know. Let's talk about Neuralink. Let's talk about, yeah. Let's talk about, uh, Trump. Let's talk about Israel. Let's talk about every—

everybody.

Yeah, everybody's doing something, and, uh, some a lot more than others. And, and I'm still passionate about those topics, but, but it never ends. It never ends. And I, I don't, I don't, uh, I, I, I feel like I was maybe shown hell And I'm still experiencing it, um, for a reason. And, you know, I gave you the analogy last night that if my son's, you know, playing with the electrical socket and he keeps sticking his finger in there, um, and I'm like, no, don't, hey, you're gonna shock yourself, hey, go timeout, all right, that's it, you know, go to your whatever, eventually I'm just gonna let them stick his finger in there and figure out why I don't want him to stick his finger in.

Yes.

And I think maybe that's what— maybe that's what Christ did to me. He's— he was— he was like, all right, here it is, buddy. You want to feel it? That's what it is. And I never want to touch that shit ever again.

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The government will not protect your health, obviously. You got to do it yourself, and they can help. Well, you seem very—

I have to—

very resolved on that. I mean, it sounds like it was— you really got a taste of it.

Worst feeling I've ever felt in my— yeah, it's indescribable.

It's funny. Normally I have curiosity. I would want to know more, but I actually don't want to know more because it's upsetting even hearing that. And so you came away thinking that God directed you to this place to teach you something, and that thing was you want to avoid hell.

I hope that's what it is. First, I thought that's where I'm going. But now I think maybe that's what it is.

What were your first reactions? Your first reaction was, I don't want to go there. So what do you do to keep from going there?

Pray, build a relationship, plant some seeds maybe. I don't know. I'm still trying to figure it out. One thing I told you, I've read maybe half the Bible. I can comprehend maybe 5, 10% of it. And so one thing I'm kind of kicking around is maybe going through every book and doing a full-blown— I mean, look, we both have access to pretty much anybody we want in the world, right? Yeah. And so—

That's the upside of the job.

Is it? Yes, I think. Because they have access to you too.

No, it's fair.

And, but maybe I bring on the best and the best theologians, maybe whoever I want to learn from and bring them in and, well, let's start with Genesis. And it'll force me to read it. And then Maybe we do this every week. Maybe we do it every other week. Maybe we do it every day. I don't know yet. I'm, uh, actually have a meeting with, with my team, who's like extended family to me, about how we're going to put this all together. Does—

is everyone on your team on, on board with this way of thinking, do you think?

Yeah. You mean Christian?

Yeah.

You Yeah, absolutely.

When you started, what year did you start the podcast?

Uh, Christmas 2019.

2019. Boy, that's fast. So 7, almost 7 years. Did you, what were your views on Christianity then?

Uh, I mean, I just didn't really think about it.

Yeah.

You know, I did. I just didn't really think about it. I didn't really think about politics, but then COVID happened, you know, shortly, what, a couple months after. And so that's kind of when I started paying attention. I was pissed off about things about Benghazi and Hillary Clinton and stuff like that. Yeah, but other than that, it seems like a different world, doesn't it? Yeah, definitely. It was a different world. But yeah, I just, uh, I've just learned you can't— you just can't really trust anybody in that realm. Very few people he can trust. And I interviewed this guy, Pete Blaber. Have you heard of Pete Blaber? Pete Blaber was a colonel over at, uh, Delta. And I mean, we both know there's tons of lies have come out of the military. It's, it's, it's, it's—

I've noticed.

Yeah. I mean, some of the biggest— he talked about the Pat Tillman stuff, he talked about Operation Anaconda. You can see another lie coming out of Development Group. Lots of those, lots of lies coming out of the SEAL teams, lots of movies made that were bullshit. And but he actually uncovered a lot of that stuff on my show because he was a part of it. And like, the Iraq invasion was based off of lies. Do you know about this? The water truck and the air conditioning unit and the sentry guard?

No.

So there was a Delta unit out there, and, um, when Colin Powell was— what, SecDef? Was that what he was?

Yeah, or Secretary of State.

Yeah, Secretary, whatever. And, um, they sent him some imagery, and Pete was like— Pete said, I don't want to hear what you guys think this stuff is. Me and my guys will figure it out. We'll get it back to you, and then, and then you'll have an unbiased— we don't want to be swayed. And, um, so they They checked into it. And so what, what I guess Department of State said was a mobile Scud missile launcher and, uh, a WMD factory with a huge air filtration system on the roof and sentry guards outside the door. What Delta, you know, arguably the best special operations unit in the world came up with is that's a water truck, huge water truck, because they're in the middle of the desert and they need water. And that big air filtration unit, uh, on the roof is an air conditioner because they're in the desert. And the sentry guard outside is, uh, dude taking a piss. And he sent it in and they totally just, uh, discarded everything and, uh, launched the invasion. And so, you know, and then, and then there's, you know, you know about all the thing— I don't want to get into it, but, uh, with all the lies coming out of just the SEAL teams alone.

And there are a lot of lies coming out of the SEAL teams.

Oh yeah, you know, it's a, um This was a total fuck-up. Let's hand out some awards and turn some people into heroes and that kind of stuff.

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I don't know. But they don't look happy. Yeah, don't look like happy people. But, um, at least to me. But it just, you know what it made me realize is, uh, I was like, man, like, I was at one— I was like ashamed to have ever even been a SEAL. And there's all kinds of— the Eddie Gallagher case, that was all fucking lies. I mean, there's lots of— they were going to pin their own guys to the wall, you know what I mean, for bullshit. The Blackwater incident, that was all lies. They deleted the drone footage to prove their innocence. But it just made me think, I'm like, man, like, I was a part of that institution. That's— I wish I never was.

And you wish you were never an Navy SEAL?

I mean, I don't regret it. I, I, I enjoyed my time there, but I mean, it's just— I obviously don't align with the ethics and, uh, and whatever value system they're going off of, which it doesn't seem to be much. But anyway, so the point being is that's just one institution inside of the U.S. Navy. That's it. The one small— like, very SEAL teams, very, very small part of the U.S. Navy. And then he's talking about Ranger Battalion, and then there's all these other units. And it's— and, and it just made me think, it's like, man, like, this is just one war and one small part of the U.S. government, very small part. So that means Every single U.S. institution out there is doing the same shit. Obviously CIA, obviously FBI, of everything, all Congress, all of the Senate, everybody in it, the presidents, everybody. And it just, it made me realize how this, the whole country is just built off dishonesty, literally lies. And then you think, man, I'm only I'm only 40 years— I'm only 43 years old. Like a very small snippet in the time of the country, let alone the world and all the other countries and all of their institutions.

And then, and then it's— and then it's just, it's like what we said last time. Everything is a lie. Everything you fucking know is a lie. Everything you think you know, everything in the history books. It's all fucking lies. All of it.

So when you look ahead, you became one of the most successful people in this business, amazingly.

So there's only one truth. And I think that's— I'm just not really interested in anything else anymore because it's all garbage. It's that black book right behind you, the Holy Bible.

That's the one truth.

That's it. You can't even look anywhere else. It's so, it's so painfully obvious at this point to me.

Other than the experience you just had that you alluded to, what convinced you?

Uh, That, that's real.

Yeah.

Well, I've had a ton of encounters, um, but encounters, yeah, you know, um, I mean, if I took— I mean, even after that, there's, there's been a— after, it's been a long 3 weeks, and, uh, I'll just say this, um, I've talked to, uh, some of the most respected exorcists in the country, and, um, I've been working with them and things have happened, and, uh like really scary shit. And if that's happening and that's real, which is more real than anything I've ever experienced, um, then the other is definitely real too.

That's right. That's exactly right. It's exactly right. If there are supernatural forces that are evil acting on people, which there are, and I've experienced them personally, then that's proof of God. Is that what you're saying? Yeah.

It's not faith to me anymore. It's fact. It is 100% fact. There's just no other way to look at it.

Isn't that a comforting fact?

Yeah, it is. I mean, I don't know what the hell we're in for here in the future, but, um, so, but I mean, it's definitely comforting, um, knowing that if you, if you, if you do the right thing, and we all know what that is, um, and you do your best, then, then hopefully you're going to end up, you know, in a good place.

I'm not sure all of us know what the right thing is. When you say do the right thing, what is that thing?

Oh, I think people know. It's a feeling. You think these people all feel good about all the lies they're spreading around?

No.

They get lost in them. They forget. They lie so much, they forget what they lied about. Can't even keep track of them all.

Lying is like that, isn't it?

Did you—

there's not a lot of talk about hell in the United States. You're younger than I am, but we grew up in the same country. You can go a whole day without hearing anyone mention hell in a literal sense. Most Americans don't really believe there's an actual risk of going to hell. Did you?

Yeah. I just never imagined it to be anything close to what I just experienced. Never.

What did you think it was?

I don't know. You know, I don't know. I mean, I don't think the human mind can imagine that kind of agony and torture and and aloneness.

Aloneness.

Yeah, I don't think— I don't think it— you just can't— you can't put it together unless you feel it. And, uh, and I've—

I've—

I either felt a small glimpse or I got the whole thing. Either way, um, I'm sure it could be a lot worse. I don't know how, but this, um, It was bad. It was, it was really the most terrifying thing I've ever experienced in my entire life. I can't even just— I just can't even describe it. I actually brought my priest on and, um, recorded a whole episode on this. I don't know if I'll release it because it's, it's, uh, I mean, it's personal. But I wanted for my family to see, if nothing else, you know. I want my son and my daughter to see it eventually. Maybe they'll go through something similar. And like I said, it's ongoing. So I want to— I'm not out of whatever this is yet. So I want to document the whole spirit experience. Some people journal. I I just shoot the video, I talk.

Why wouldn't you release that?

I don't know. I don't know. I just want to make sure I have a— I'm in a clear headspace before I do it. You know what I mean?

I think that's very wise. I never wait for a clear headspace before making decisions.

I usually don't either.

I paid the price many times.

I usually don't either.

Yeah, no, I'm not a pause before acting guy.

It gets, it gets, uh, I mean, I think, you know, I've been pretty vulnerable. I'm an open book. And, uh, it's what, what, I don't know, maybe I just saved this one for myself because most of my stuff is out there. And, uh, you know, the only thing I really won't talk about is like my family.

Of course. Um, but that's not you, that's them you're protecting.

Yeah, but you know, it gets weird, like meet people and they, they think they know you because they do, kind of. But you're like, what do you know about me? What have you heard that I've said? You know nothing about them. And it just puts you in a really uncomfortable state sometimes. Do you know what I mean?

Do I know what you mean?

Yeah. Yeah.

You get used to it after a while.

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But, um, yeah, of course I know what you mean. Yeah, it's, it's weird, but you know, it's— everyone has a a weird life in their own way, and that's the way that we have a weird life. So that's what I think to myself anyway. You know, everyone, everyone's got their own thing they have to deal with. Yeah, but that is very strange, and it can make you a solitary person, and you wind up not wanting to deal with anyone you don't know well and trust.

And that's me. I'm fine with that though.

I am too.

I don't even like doing these anymore. I like— I haven't even done one of these since yours.

Really?

Yeah, I don't— I just— I don't— I don't like doing them anymore. I feel like everybody has an expectation of me, and, and I never want to get caught up talking about shit that, you know, that I don't know. I see a lot of people that, you know, that they, they turn into a character. They feel pressure like they have to know something, and then they just fucking go with it. The next thing you know, it's like You actually have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

I've been there so many— if you run a cable news show where you're not in control of the topics, you're responding to the day's news. I did this for like 25 years. And you just, you know, you look at the papers or Twitter or whatever, and it's whatever everyone's talking about. That's what you have to talk about. And sometimes it's right in your sweet spot of knowledge, and other times it's so far out, you know, it's about American Indian reservation policy or something. It's like you don't know anything, and you all of a sudden you sort of look down on the set and see yourself speaking in kind of a commanding tone with false authority on something you literally know nothing about at all. And then eventually you get caught, of course, or you indict yourself, like you lose self-respect after a while because you know it's all fake, which is worse.

Yeah.

And I've definitely participated in that. Definitely participated in that. Let me tell you about the Hungarian Civil War, says the man who doesn't speak Hungarian or whatever.

You know what I mean?

It's like, yeah, that's bad. And that's the beauty of this gig, is you get to talk about what you want to talk about. And if you have some restraint and again, some self-respect, you restrict yourself to topics that you have developed views about, some knowledge of, you think matter, like objectively matter. Yeah, you don't have to talk about other people's priorities, so that helps.

Yeah, I like hanging out with you though, so I want to do this one. I like, I like this one.

Yeah, well, I'm not—

I'm, I'm too old to judge, but, uh, but I mean, you know, back to the— it just got to the point too where I just, I don't even know, I don't even know why, like, I'm just beating the same fucking drum over and over, and it's like, yeah, what are we doing here, man? Is anything getting solved? Like, if everybody knows what's going on, right?

Right.

It's, it's, it's out there.

How many times can you point out that everything's a lie before it's like pointless?

Pretty much.

And discouraging, by the way.

Is that—

this is what I think to myself, because I have had exactly the same thoughts that you're describing. It's like, is this good? Is it good to keep telling? I mean, obviously 9/11 is not what they told us. I'm not exactly sure what it was, but they're lying about it. Kennedy assassination, Obviously they're lying about it, everything they're lying about, because they're liars. So I've made all those points about a million times, but with decreasing enthusiasm. And at a certain point you're like, I'm telling people something they already know. I'm not actually bringing the truth because the truth is unknowable. I can't figure out what happened, really. And maybe I'm just making people hopeless.

It's kind of what I'm getting at. I mean, what do you think it looks like if— well, not really. I mean, I think— I don't even think we're the superpower anymore. I think that's becoming more and more obvious every day. But a lot of people do. So let's phrase it like this. What do you think it looks like if we do lose this, lose our place in the world? Is it— do you think it's going to be that bad? I've been looking into some of this with what happened when Germany fell and what happened when the UK fell and what happened to the USSR when it fell. And some of them were really bad and some of them, like the UK stuff, didn't— it didn't really seem that bad. Like, they still had law and order, their currency was still worth money. I think they had a lot of debt. Um, property rights still existed. But they just, the world figured it out. We don't need to answer these people anymore. There's a new sheriff in town.

There are only two things you need to survive long-term, in my opinion. One is a coherent nation. You have to have Germans. Everyone understands what a German is. You've got a shared history, language, cultural assumptions, like you have something in common with your countrymen and you have to have your dignity and your self-respect. You can't be convinced to hate yourself just because you lost something. They can't break your spirit. They can't turn you into the prison bitch. And because if that happens, then there's no recovery at all. And the loss isn't measured in GDP. It's like much bigger than that. And so I would argue that the collapse of the British Empire, the collapse of the German state in 1945, the country was literally split in half. I mean, those were pretty soft landings on a surface level, but they were profound, and those nations were destroyed for all time. Whereas Russia, which went through in '91 when the Soviet Union dissolved, went through a period of, you know, 10 years of lawlessness and the oligarchs and the mafia and people getting shot to death in Moscow and life expectancy plummeting and everything that we read about in the Western press.

But actually, Russia remained a coherent nation with a shared vision of the future. It remained an actual place, like a real place. And now it's recovered and now it's a great power again. It's the world's largest country and it has a sense of itself as that. And it will continue. It will outlive us. It will outlive Germany and the UK, that's for sure. Whether you— my ancestors are from the UK and Germany, so I'm kind of on their side in some deep sense. But just objectively, they're not going to exist because there's no such thing as a German anymore. The majority of births in the UK are non-English. So what does it even mean? There's no country.

But before that, I mean, it was a soft landing.

Yeah, they had rationing in Britain for 10 years after the war, and they had rationing.

I didn't realize.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Some genius on the internet will correct me, but I think, yeah, for 10 years. Oh, it wrecked the British economy. The fall of empire. The empire really ended in 1918. But whatever the point is, Americans still thought Britain was a real country and impressive. It was our parent. Being ambassador of the Court of St. James was the highest honor in the US State Department. There was a lot of prestige that attached to Britain. Not so much anymore, but but the country itself was gone. And you know you're gone when you start importing people to replace your children. Like, that's just the most obvious, you know. What's your birth rate doing? Are people reproducing? Do they have enough confidence and enough self-respect to, to keep the project going with their genes? And, uh, no, they don't. So I think the bigger the empire the farther out over its skis it gets, obviously the more harder it falls. Exactly. The uglier the crash. And I'm worried about our country because there is no coherent nation.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I spoke to an employer this morning, a big industrial employer who's a close friend of mine. You know, Republican, optimistic, very smart, very smart person, very decent Christian person, and he said to me, we have zero unemployment in the state, that these Midwestern states, it's zero unemployment. I don't care what they tell you. We can't find English-speaking workers. Nobody speak English. And you have to, to work on our plane, you have to speak English for safety reasons. And we can't— nobody speaks English. And this is in a major American Midwestern state. This is a major industrial company, makes things. He said, we can't. Nobody. In fact, he told me one of his competitors is going out of business because of labor shortages. And the problem is English. There just aren't enough English speakers in the United States to staff a factory.

Holy shit.

So I think those of us who live in kind of like legacy communities where, you know, half your neighbors had an ancestor in the Civil War are not seeing what the country is becoming. Because we're cut off from it, because we live in these little pockets that look like our childhood, but that's not a reflection of what the country is. That's not happening in Russia or China or Iran. So those are the measures, like all this stuff like, oh, the nuclear program and whoever is running the country today and Yeltsin versus Putin. It's like, who cares? That's all window dressing. I mean, those are meaningful, I guess. I mean, of course they're meaningful, but they're not ultimately the measures that matter. What matters is who lives in your country. Are there people whose ancestors live there, or are they brand new people who have no connection at all to the country, are likely to treat the current occupants with contempt, and is it a source of income and people to be exploited anyway? So yeah, I'm concerned.

We all are.

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So, but you're saying that really the, the main problem to be addressed is not what's happening outside of us or in our political system, but what's happening inside of us. I think, as you said, we're all kind of evil.

Yeah, I think so. I think— I don't know how to fix it, Tucker. I mean, what the fuck do I know? But I think that I think maybe people need to tune out a little bit and start working on themselves. Maybe, for lack of a better term, just be the person you want everybody else to be. And that probably won't work, but that's what I'm going to do.

That's the only thing. That will work. Be the person you want everyone else to be. Have you ever had this experience when you're arguing with someone, up to and including your wife, but you're mad at someone who you know well, and you look at that person in your mind, you're like, I'm mad at Sean because he's doing this, he's being this way, and if only he would stop doing this or being that way, things would be fine. And then this is like a very common marital experience, I think, for people. And then you ultimately realize whatever you're accusing the other person of doing is exactly what you're doing. Like, you're being grouchy. You realize, actually, I'm being grouchy.

Yeah. You don't think like me. That's what it is.

Yeah. But there's something in people that wants to accuse others of doing exactly what they're doing. Have you done that?

Oh, all the time. All the time. And it's— sometimes I can't even see it because I'm big on self-reflection and, uh, how I can improve. And I'm, I'm, uh, really big on trying to, you know, making sure that I don't get too far ahead of my skis, that my, my ego doesn't blow up. But you just don't see a lot of things. You don't see— I don't, I don't— you don't see a lot of things in yourself. And, um, Or it's hard to, like I said. And, and so, like I, like I told you last night, I'm, I'm not, uh, I'm just not really— that's why I'm not— I'm off everything now. The only thing I'm on is YouTube, but I don't even look at the back end of the metrics or the financials like I used to. Like, I'm not on Instagram, I'm not on X, I'm not on TikTok, I'm not on anything. I don't want to see any comments, I don't want to see any view counts. I don't want to hear, Sean, you're doing God's work. I don't want to hear, Sean, you suck. I don't want to hear, Sean, you're a fucking Qatari whatever.

I don't want to hear any of it. Like, I don't want to hear the praise. I don't want to see— I just want to hear God, and I want to be quiet so I can hear that and, and start leaning a lot more into my intuition, which I've always kind of prided myself on anyways. But it's, it's impossible to do it with all the noise. Especially with all the praise, you know. And, and so I, I needed to be quiet so I, so I, I know what to do and I know how to act.

People will hear that and say, but you run one of the biggest podcasts and your podcast is about the rest of the world. How do you know what's happening in the rest of the world outside of your own home if you're not on social media?

I don't care anymore. Okay, I don't care anymore. My podcast will be whatever I want it to be, you know, and, and, uh, it always has. Well, it, it, I guess I can't say it always has been because I, I leaned into the audience there for about probably a little over a year, like, um, leading up to the last presidential election. You know, I was doing what I wanted to do, but then I saw, you know, that's when all the praise started coming, and, and I'm just— I'm done with that. So I'm just waiting for God's direction to tell me what to do. And then with the Bible thing, I think that's what— I think that's— I think that's what I'm supposed to do.

Into your audience, I mean, that's a very familiar thing to anyone who does this for a living. Can you just describe that a little more for people who don't?

Well, I mean, it's, it's what I've been saying.

It's, it's the praise, it's the comments, responding to it, programming on the basis of it.

It's what are they— oh, these numbers shot up, we need to do more of this. Oh, that's going to be big numbers, let's do that, you know. And, and I mean, I'm not saying like I totally sold out to it or anything, but it was a big driver.

It was a huge driver.

Yes, you know, and And I wanted to— I wanted to— I wanted to take the number one slot. I wanted the $200 million deal that Rogan got. I'm not gonna get it. That's just not how my life works. I always have to— nothing has ever handed to me. And, um, I always have to find other avenues to get what I want.

Would you want $200 million?

Yeah, I mean, of course that's what I wanted. Now I don't give a shit because I— now I see it. It just never fucking ends. It never ends at this. So now I don't, because now I, I was, you know, another thing I was, I was putting business and, and money over— I, I hate to say it like this, and that's not, that wasn't my intention when I was doing it, but now that I can self-reflect, I realized that I was putting money and attention and, and maybe power, and I fucking thought I was somebody because of who I'm associated with. I can fucking access anybody in the world. What the fuck do you know? What the— they probably know more than I do. I don't know shit. And, and, and, and I'm watching my kids get older and I'm like, fuck, man, how much time did I miss? Like, because my own bullshit, my own ego, like, I'm fucking somebody, look who I'm having lunch with, look who I'm going to see, look who I'm talking to, I know everything. And then you get all the information and what do you do with it?

Nothing. You just fucking look cool, you sound important. And your kids are growing up. Yeah. Makes me sad. I don't want to do that again.

If it makes you feel better, having been in this business my whole life, I think every single person goes through what you've described, and the life cycle of yours is the shortest I've ever heard. If you figure that out in a year while your children are still small, You haven't gotten to the cat's in the cradle stage where they're like, yeah, you blew it, Dad, we hate you.

I hope I never get to that stage.

Well, you won't because you figured it out young. You went through it really fast. But there are people, I can think of one in particular, really good guy, great guy, very well informed, very famous person in our business, missed his entire life.

Was he a great guy?

Fun guy to have lunch with. Knows everybody, knows everything. Funny storyteller, you'd like him, but a tragic, tragic person and was left at the end with literally nothing.

Gone, man.

Gone. It's gone. It's gone. He gained the world but lost his soul. I know a lot of people like that.

Me too.

Yeah. So, no, I couldn't agree with you more. So you said that you have a program, and if you don't mind, I would love to know what your program is for keeping hubris at bay, for keeping yourself from imagining you're God when you're not? Like, you're obviously disciplined. You were a SEAL, so you're a self-disciplined person. Like, what steps do you go through other than getting off social media to keep yourself from getting delusions of omnipotence?

Well, this is all new to me, so I don't know. But I don't know what to tell you. The psychedelics cracked me open, wide open again. And, and I guess I'll probably never do them again because they—

because they— you got what you wanted from them.

I can't say I got what I wanted, but, but I I didn't get anything from them. I got it all from God. And I kept saying that, like psychedelics would be like a fucking quick fix for me. I just want to clean it out. I want to reset. And I would take all the science that they're finding, you know, the good things about it and justify it. And, but, you know, and in the end, you're opening you're just in a forbidden realm that maybe we should or should not be fucking around in. But, um, I won't be fucking around in that realm anymore, I can tell you that. But, uh, and I got strict guidance, which, you know, I told you last night, that is, don't mess around in that anymore. But it's done a lot of great things for people. Strict guidance from God. And, and it's done a lot of great things for me. This, this, as painful as this is to go through, it's, it, it, you know, it's, uh, I'm thankful for it. Um, but that, uh, but yeah, I don't know what the steps are, Tucker. I'm just, I'm just figuring it out.

Maybe saying it out loud is the first one.

I think the steps are listen to your wife, pay attention to your kids, and Some of the people that are really, really close around you, but even that, you know, even with my team, like I told you, my team's like my family. Like Tim, who's sitting over here, he's been with me since the 5th episode. And Kimball is, he's been with me since he's 17. He's like 26 or 27 now. All my— Darren's been with me since— Elijah has been with me since I think the 5th episode too. He runs my whole company now. He started off making like $200 an episode doing sound, like, it's like a sound engineer. Now he runs my whole company. I hired all these fucking CEOs and all these bigwigs to come in and run them, and this kid— I love that he runs circles around him. Like, and I trust them with my life. But, and so we're like a family. But even with them, I mean, with the— my show has just gotten so big, it's inflated all of our egos. And so we're, we're a bunch of good people with inflated egos that don't realize that we all have inflated egos because of what we built.

And I would constantly— I'm like, why you go getting to me? You're good.

No, sir, you're perfect.

It's not— it's not that though. It's not that. They tell me when I'm fucking up. It's not that.

It's just kidding.

Their ego is also being inflated because they're— they're just as much a part of this as I am. Yeah. You know, and they've built something massive, and that grows an ego. And they see the comments and they get the praise.

Yes.

And they— they go through all of that with me, you know. And so they're— we're all blind to it. So it takes somebody close that's not inside of it to set your ass straight. Yes. Does that make sense?

Of course.

It absolutely does.

Not the yes men. I don't have any yes men. I don't either.

I hate people like that.

Fired all the yes men.

I've had a couple hyper annoying kids work for me over the years who I truly love. Two of them at different times. And they were the no men and they would doubt everything and constantly criticize me in a hyper annoying way. But I trusted them because I thought they were being honest. They're both kind of autistic, and they'd be like, I think it's really stupid what we're doing.

I always want to say, shut up, I employ you.

But then I would force myself to listen, and I learned more from them. Both turned out to be very successful in life, actually. But, um, I loved having people like that. Yeah, as much as I hated having people like that.

I always listen to them. Yeah.

Oh, me too. Yeah. Um, so as you embark on whatever is going to happen next in your professional life, does part of you think, well, gee, you know, I'm so successful in conventional terms, maybe I shouldn't mess with the formula? Are you afraid?

No.

Have you even thought of that?

Yeah, like what happens if, uh, the numbers go to zero? Yeah. I don't care because it's not worth doing if, um, if it's not authentic. So if they go to zero, then they go to zero. And if— but if I am doing what God wants me to do, then they're not going to go to zero, are they?

I personally think it'll be bigger, actually. For what I know, that's not why you're doing it, but if I had to guess, I would say that anyone Even former Navy SEALs who've never been in broadcasting before. Anyone who's as honest as he can be succeeds. I think that.

Thank you.

But because there's so little of it that I don't think the measure is, are you always right? No one is. I'm certainly not. But if you're making an obviously sincere effort to tell the truth, people really love— they crave it because there's just not much of it at all. Like, that's the superpower. And you seem like you're embarking on like a radical version of that. So I bet you're going to have radical results. I mean, again, not that you care. And because you don't care, that's why it's going to work.

If it happens, it happens. And if it doesn't, that's fine too.

It— are Like, the people closest to you totally on board with this?

I think so. We'll find out on, uh, we'll find out later this week when we have the meeting, but they're gonna be, you know what I mean? They're gonna be.

So did you know that there were supernatural forces, demons, that could act on people? Did you grow up knowing that? Did you think about that?

I definitely didn't grow up knowing that. You know, the first time I felt it, I thought maybe we chatted about this last time, but maybe we didn't. But the first time I really felt it was maybe 3 years ago. I'd just done my Ryan Montgomery, who you met. Love that guy. He's one of my best friends. He's going to be my son's godfather.

Wow.

And, um, here next month. But I just did his episode, which really, like, really hurt me. Um, and Tyler Andrew Vargas, who was one of the— who was the survivor at Abbeygate, he was like 24 years old, had his arm blown off, had his leg blown off, has a bag, you know. And I'm like watching this kid hobble up my stairs with the Afghan withdrawal and the lies that came out about that and nobody would talk to him. Here's a God thing. So I thought my whole team was like, you need to get this kid. And I'm like, he's got like every major news outlet probably wants to talk to him. Tucker Carlson probably wants to talk to him. Joe Rogan. I'm like, he doesn't want to fucking talk to me. There's no way. And, um, I pinged him on Instagram and he hit me right back. And, you know, um, a lot of the guests come, come out, we have breakfast, you know, the, uh, the day of, or we have dinner the night before. And we're having— I'm having breakfast with him and his fiancée, and, and he's like, man,, he started crying and he's like, man, uh, he goes, all these news networks were trying to get me.

And he goes, Good Morning America interviewed me for like 7 hours. And they released like, I can't remember, it was like 5 minutes or 5 seconds. I think it was like 5 seconds of the interview. And he's like, I was there for 7 hours. And he's like, I looked at my fiancée and he goes, I just wish the Sean Ryan guy would just reach out to me. And he pulled up his phone and sure as shit, there was a message from me. And he broke down right there at the table.

That is wild.

And so me and my wife went to Sedona. We went on this vacation to Sedona. And so I was like, I just found out how bad it is with what's going on with kids online and the sex exploitation. Pedophiles and all that kind of stuff. And, and then, and, and like the day after I did that interview was Tyler Andrew Vargas. And then, and then, um, oh, and then, uh, uh, the one friend that I had and, and where I live at the time who didn't— who's like a genuine friend, a successful guy, owned some hospitals. He didn't need anything from me. I don't need anything from him. I really enjoy those relationships. I know there's not a fucking hidden ask getting ready to happen or some kind of agenda or a photo op or whatever it may be. And, um, like, just genuine. We can go out to eat and it's not going to be, hey, could you mind if we just, you know, could you, uh, I got this new, you know, that kind of shit. And, um, it's just genuine friendship. Anyways, he died. And, uh, yeah, he died. He died on a hunting trip.

His name is Dan Cirillo. He died on a hunting trip with his son, had a heart attack.

Oh, come on. At what age?

Uh, I don't know. He was probably mid to late 50s if I had to guess. But I mean, I'm happy for him. Look, if that's how I go on a hunting trip with my son who's raised and doing great—

I agree. Then as someone who's 57 though, I'm opposed to the timeline. Me too, right?

Yeah. But, um, so all these things happen and then, and, and we go to, um We're in Sedona and I'm just, I have a breakdown on the plane. I don't really break down other than lately. And my wife's like, what the hell is going on with you? And I started telling her and then the last day I was like, all right, I'm just going to come off my phone for the week and maybe I'll feel better. And I felt a little bit better. And then I got on my phone and I saw this country music star that I had a lot of respect for at the time, and she's going on about how drag queens should be able to like shake their ass in front of toddlers. And I was like, oh man. A couple weeks later she gets a big show. And, uh, anyways, but I see this stuff and I'm like, fuck, man. And so I tell— I smoke a joint and tell Katie, we're going on a hike. We're gonna go up to this energy vortex. I want to see if I feel something. And, uh, joint didn't help. And we get up there and, dude, I went like bananas.

Like, this, this is one thing about the psychedelic stuff that I, I didn't really like, where it took me. It was— I was looking for all these other fucking things. I was into like looking at crystals and all this shit and, um, oh, energy comes out of the crystals and whatever. And, uh, we go up to this fucking vortex and then I'm like, I don't feel shit. And, uh, so we're marching back down, hiking back down, and I'm having like this internal battle in my, like, in my head. And, uh, like, I'm like, maybe I, maybe I shouldn't be worried about dismembering kids and, and, and politicians and schools and athletes and celebrities, like, pushing, you know, you, you, you should be the opposite sex and let's put some hormones in you and let's, let's get you in the hospital. And I'm like, maybe I'm the fucked up one. Maybe I Nobody else seems to give a shit. Maybe I'm the— maybe I'm the one that's— maybe I'm— maybe it's me.

Maybe—

why are you fighting this shit? And I just kept— it felt like I was, uh, like, like surrendering my— surrendering my soul or my heart to the devil, maybe. But there was like this internal battle going on, and I, I was literally trying to convince myself that I was the— like, I'm feeling all this pain because, you know, in the mat— this is when MAPS thing started coming out, you know, the minor attracted person. Can't call them pedophile, gotta call them a minor attracted person because that's, that's offensive, Tucker. And so I'm like trying to convince myself, like, maybe you're just— this is old school thinking. Maybe you shouldn't be so upset about all this thing.

You're the crazy one. Yeah.

And, uh It's dark and we get— we're staying at a really nice resort down there and, and, uh, there's a, there's a guarded gate and I pay attention to that shit because my, you know, my background, SEAL and contracting for CIA, and so I pay attention to that kind of shit. And I, uh, and, you know, those guys, that demographic of people love my show, you know, because of all the military guys I've had on it. So they all know me and, and they— and I stop and talk to them all. We've been there for a week And I get— and, um, and this old man comes out of the guard shack and, uh, he's like trying to talk to me. And I'm looking at him over my shoulder, like, given the body language, like, not now, buddy. I don't want to— I don't give a shit what you have to say. I don't— like, I just want to go to my fucking room. And, um, and then Katie, my wife, stops and talks to him. And I'm like, oh shit. So I turn around and I square up to him, and he looked at me and he read my mind from front to back.

He said, you know, all the shit that's going on with the kids, so that's, that's not your fight. And then he kept talking, and, and I was, I was like really worried about China, and that was when the Spy spy balloon traversed over the US, and he brought up something about China, and I like lost it. I was like, how the fuck are you in my head? Like, how do you know? How are you in my head? And so I totally blanked out on the rest of what he said, but I knew it was in— I'm like, said like 2 or 3 more things and then have a good night. And walked back into his guard shack. And I'd never seen this dude. I thought I had met all the people that worked there because we're in and out. And we're going back to our— we're staying in like this bungalow thing, like a duplex. And, uh, and, uh, there was this guy. My best friend, uh, died of heroin, but he was always known as a protector. His name was Gabe. He was like, he was just a badass. He was a pro hockey player before he joined the SEAL Teams.

He was an enforcer, and then he joined the SEAL Teams. And like, he's the guy, like, if you're in trouble, you know Gabe's gonna come whip some ass and get you out of it. And then we contract, and then, and then I met him contracting for, uh, the agency, and we became really good friends. And he had the same reputation there. And when we first got there, we'd seen this guy and he looked identical. Like, same. He could have been a twin. Like, like, you could tell them apart, but it could have been an identical twin to Gabe. And I'm in the super vulnerable state, and this guy's like everywhere we're at this week. And I pointed him out and Katie was like, yeah, that looks identical to him. If we're out in town at a restaurant, this dude's out there. If we're on a hike, He's like right behind us or coming back. If we go to the pool, he's at the pool. It was just weird. It's like this guy's like always around. Yeah, it's going on. Well, uh, coincidence though, like I'm on top of shit like that, you know. And I didn't get— I know where you're going.

It wasn't like surveillance or anything like that. And so we're walking back to the bungalow that we've been at all week. And I'm like, I think, uh, I think that guy in the guard shack was God just talking to me. And Katie goes, yeah, you think, Sean? And I was like, I was like, that's, that's fucking crazy. And she's like, that's not fucking crazy. She said, Sean, God's always talking to you. You just don't make the room to let him in. And then we go to our bungalow and this dude is staying in the other side of it. So I took that as this guy's like maybe some other something else kind of watching over us while I'm in this vulnerable state. And then I get into the bungalow. And I start crying and I'm like, what the hell is going on? And get this shit, let me pull this text up, I'll read it to you. We're talking and, uh, my phone dings and it's Dan's daughter who I've never met. She doesn't have my number. Her dad just died. And I get this text on the hunting trip with his son. Yeah, it says, hey Sean, this is Taylor, Dan's daughter.

My dad requested that I reach out to you. I had a moment with him the other day when my mom and I walked into his gun room. It was the first time she had been in there since his passing, and I felt the whole room waken like a— like invisible stars were just bouncing off the walls. There were a few people in the room, but he really grabbed me by the balls, as he would say, and made a couple of clear points. I want you to know he spoke very gently, very smooth-like, and he was calm and tranquil. One favor he asked of me is that I contact you when I'm ready. He didn't give me any more direction than that, but I think he would just like you— I think he would just like you to know he sees you or feels you. My mom told me recently you had become his best friend and favorite person to be around, and if that's true, it's safe to say he really loved you Just exactly as you are. Unfortunately, my dad didn't really talk about our personal lives. We had more of a feeling-type relationship, not a lot of talking, but just the right amount of loving from afar.

If there was— if there's ever a chance you'd feel comfortable, comfortable talking about yours and his story, I'd love to hear about it, and I'm sure he would too.

Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. So that changed my life forever.

Did you talk to her?

Yeah.

That's an incredible story.

Pretty wild, isn't it?

Did you doubt it, or did you—

Not at that point.

You knew.

I mean, that was— that all happened in about 15 minutes, from walking through— from walking through the gate to Seeing Gabe's identical twin to Dan's daughter, who'd never met me and didn't have my phone number, texting me that.

This is not what you expected when you got on the flight to Sedona.

That's one way to put it.

How much— your wife said that God is always talking to you, but you don't hear it because you're distracted. Do you think that's true?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then I think it happened again in that year and a half I was telling you about, that I, um, that I let all the praise and all that get to me. Yeah, I got too wrapped up in it.

Yeah, we've all been there for sure, especially with knowledge. It's not just money and fame or all that. I've never taken any of that seriously. But the, the idea that you know stuff that civilians don't know, that's a kind of arrogance and lie. You said that. You said like, you don't know the things I know. Why am I even listening to you?

Yep.

I've definitely been there.

It's a pretty fucked up place to be.

Yeah, it's a pretty subtle temptation too, because of course, who doesn't want more knowledge? Isn't the whole point of this business to find out how things work?

That's what everybody will make you think.

Well, that's what I've always assumed. And then as my wife once pointed out to me, Adam and Eve didn't get ejected from the garden because of their ignorance, but because of their knowledge. So the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake, I have mixed feelings about. I used to think that was the highest virtue, was just to know more. But having learned a lot more than, I think, not to be arrogant, more than most people, I'm not sure it got me anything. It definitely didn't get me to understanding.

Yeah.

Did you feel that as you uncovered more and more lies, did you feel happier, more content, more at peace? Did you feel like you had a deeper understanding of other people, or did you just feel agitated?

Oh, just agitated. Just anger and rage and all the time. I bring it home and I try to play with my kids and I wasn't there. My head wasn't there, you know. And I try to smoke, smoke a joint or something to get in the in the present moment, that wouldn't work. So I quit all of that shit. I have no vices now. It's great.

When did you give up weed?

About a month ago.

How's it going?

Great.

Any downsides?

Nope.

Didn't affect your sleep?

I don't know what's affecting my sleep.

You can't sleep anyway, so that's not—

that's not— that's all this other stuff that I'm going through right now that's affecting my sleep. It's not that.

But you gave up weed. No drinking.

No drinking. Haven't had a drop in over 4 years. That happened after Ibogaine. And then, yeah, now no caffeine, no caffeine, nicotine.

No nicotine. Okay.

Now, okay, sorry, but, you know, Sean, I was with you up until right then, but you start getting into nicotine and that's like crazy town.

No drugs, no weed, no nothing.

What do you think of it?

It's great. There's just nothing to mask your emotions. Fucking naked in front of everybody. It's happening. When I'm reading that text, that would never happen before. I'm feeling things. I'm feeling emotions that before I just felt rage, just anger. That's pretty much it. You know, and, uh, now I'm, I'm feeling all of them.

I think that's why we use substances, so we don't have to do that, right? Was it a hard transition?

Not as hard as you think.

You don't feel on overload?

This is what puts me on overload.

Was it hard to get off? What was harder, getting off caffeine and nicotine or social media?

Yeah. Yeah.

How long did it take to get over your withdrawals, your ex-withdrawals?

Not long, you know, but my, my circumstances are a little different because of the things I'm dealing with right now and what I was, you know, describing to you, uh, with the priests and that kind of stuff is just, um, so much more important and so much more real. So I, I, I, I just, I have to deal with that. And, um, which means I can't be dealing with this. And I know what this will do. I know it will— it will throw me back on the path that I was on, and I just— I don't want any part of that anymore.

So you're describing the phone as actively evil? I mean, that's what you're saying?

Yeah. I mean, one person showed me, you know, I mean, talking about Adam and Eve, you know, What is that?

It's an apple.

Yeah, with one bite out of it.

I've never thought of that. Huh. So it's like this is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, basically. I never thought of that. Me neither. You can tell what a deep person I am. How often do you have a realization like that and you understand that something you've had in your hand every 5 minutes for the last 10 years, you've never really thought about it?

Yeah.

How am I missing the most obvious things?

I don't know. We're all a slave to it.

So you're rolling out an app called Glacier.

Yeah, yeah.

One of my least favorite things to talk about is technology or apps, I should say, or other people's projects or what someone's selling or whatever. Every time I interview someone, not every time, but very often it's like, I've got this new thing, can you talk about it? You actually didn't mention this to me at all. You didn't want to talk about it. And I hate this topic, but this is an interesting enough thing that I would actually like to push you on a little bit.

Okay.

So one of the big problems I have with phones is I don't— that they're not private, of course. And not just for us. I mean, it's obvious if you're in broadcasting, you know, you're going to be surveilled. So, and I know that I am, but just like everybody is. And it's upsetting and there's really kind of no solution to it. I've spent a lot of time on this topic and I've never seen anything that protects people from it. But it sounds like this app might help. What is it?

Can I just tell you the story?

Yeah.

That would be better than me trying to get into the technicalities of everything that I don't know and understand that well. But it just came from paranoia. I think last time I checked, I think I interviewed 8 people that got picked up for the administration. A lot of, 2 of them thanked me personally because they said my interviews are the ones that got them in there. One of them got picked 5 days after I released the interview, Secretary of War. And just after they all got in there, And there's, you know, some of them trying to influence me, and senators and congressmen and other people. And, and I'm like, and now that they're in there, it's like they want me to do shit, or they did. I pretty much have made my statements, like I'm very loud about shit, and I want them to get the message, like don't fucking ask me for that stuff. And, and, um, But I get— I got paranoid, like, are they monitoring me now because they're worried I'm gonna go against them? Or like, what's going on? And, and then the Bao Shikim interview happened, you know, in Taiwan, and I started getting paranoid about that.

So anyways, I started looking up— I was like, I, I need like something, if anything, just for peace of mind. Like, I, like, if Are they listening when I'm talking to my wife? Are they listening when I go to dinners with people? Like, what is happening?

And, um, and so short answer, yes. Yeah.

So I started asking around for a black phone. I'm like, what it— like, what is the one that people are using? And, uh, like, is the— is there a real one, or is it all these bullshit gimmicky ones that came out? And A friend of mine said, yeah, that this is what, this is what the, like, the tier 1 units and the intelligence communities and stuff are using. It's this, it's called Glacier. And, um, so I called, uh, who's now my COO, Elijah, and I was like, hey, get in touch with this company and let's, uh, I want a phone and I want one for everybody on the team.. And, um, so he got in touch and I was like, see if they're interested in advertising. And it's like, yeah, they love the show. I was like, really? That's cool. And I was like, see if they're interested.

That's the community that watches your show, I think it's fair to say.

Yeah. And I was like, see if, uh, see if they want to do an equity deal. Yeah, they want to do an equity deal. And I was like, all right, well, let's get the product and see if we like it and if it actually works. And then I found out the price of the product, and I was like, holy shit. Like, it's, it's very expensive for a phone and even more expensive for the service.

Like, ish, like ballpark, like, uh, close to $10 grand for the phone.

Oh, and, and maybe a little bit more than that for the service. And so I was like, man, that's a lot.

Yeah.

I'm like, um, well, we're getting them because I'm super fucking paranoid. And, um, you know, they have like kidnapping features for your kids, and they can, they can upload and, and delete footprints in different countries so that it makes it, you know, they can do all kinds of like wazoo shit, like totally delete your, your digital footprint., you know, uh, from wherever and upload a fake one. Like, they can do all kinds of— like, they have a messaging service that tunnels you in. So, like, you know, the, the signal leak that happened early on, that's impossible to happen. You could have your entire organization in this one chat where you can't accidentally add the wrong Tucker in there, you know what I mean?

And, and you couldn't put Jeffrey Goldberg from The Atlantic on your group text.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay. Yeah, that might be worth 10 grand.

Yeah. Yeah. So anyways, I was like, man, I would love to do business with you guys. But I was like this, we're shooting for like top-tier tech CEOs, C-suite execs, and maybe government contracts, which you guys already have a foothold in. And I was like, I was like, I would be interested if you had like an application that was maybe you know, close to that, or maybe some of the features that you have in this aren't in that, you know, something that's more affordable that everybody can use. And, uh, they said, well, we, we obviously have a program, we can turn it into an app. And I was like, all right, let's see what that looks like. So we, we did it, and we spent about a year putting it all together. And, um, so it's called the Glacier app. And, uh, it's, you know, a lot of the VPN companies that podcasters are representing are owned by China, or they're owned by Israel, or they're owned by Russia.

They're fake. Yeah.

And, um, I mean, you can, you can look it up. Don't take my word for it.

I dropped a VPN sponsor over this exact question.

Me too. Yeah, me too. And, and, uh, I didn't know that.

I didn't know that the VPN is basically a digital honey trap.

Yeah. And so, you know, in one— and a lot of, like, there's a Chinese company that owns like a whole conglomerate of these things. So you— so anyways, we're all-American VPNs, uh, no data is stored at all. Secure DNS, uh, data blocking. So I think this morning before I came in here, we just launched it. Like, it just happened to come out like 2 days ago, uh, and just by what, 11 AM, we had like 830, uh, web trackers blocked on the phone, which is the marketing shit. And I don't even have social media apps on my phone. Told you I deleted them all. And then it has a— we have a burner number service on there. So especially for somebody like you or I who's meeting all these people, maybe you don't want everybody to have your number. So you can, you can go in there and pick any, any area code you want, buy a burner number and give that to these state actors or for regular people, You know, you get a hotel, you do a poll, you make a contribution to a political campaign, you order a pizza, whatever it is like that, your number, you know, goes up for sale and then you're getting 50 million spam calls.

So you can buy however many burner numbers you want. And if the relationship goes sour, you just burn the number and pick a new one. And, um, and then they have no way to contact you ever again. So yeah, we call it the Glacier app, and, and that's— it's affordable. Everybody can get it.

Does it help prevent you from being spied on?

It does the things that I told you it does, you know. And so there's nothing that's full, foolproof, being honest, you know. Like, I'm sure there's some way to possibly defeat it, but Um, you know, for, for the majority of stuff, it's going to block 99% of the stuff that comes in.

What if your phone number's on the internet?

What if your phone number's on the internet?

Yeah, my number's on the internet.

Well, I mean, it's not going to delete your phone number off the internet. Damn. But, but you can get as many new ones as you want.

So, and you just go to the the Apple Store and get it?

Yep, you go to the Apple Store and get it, or the glacierapp.com, either, either one. It's just for iOS right now. We'll have, uh, Android out in a couple months. But with your number, just, you know, Glacier aside, what you never— just if you get rid of your number, you want to keep it and get a new one. You don't want to, you don't want burn the number that you have all your banks and all that kind of stuff to, because if somebody else picks that up, then it would be a bad deal for you.

It'd be a bad deal.

Yeah.

Um, I don't, I don't do online banking as a result, or online whatever. Yeah, I don't do online anything. That's right. Yeah, I don't. I just, I never was impressed by all that stuff. I order ammo on my phone. That's it. It's the only transaction I do on my phone.

I'll bet you got a lot of that.

I do. Yeah, I have a lot of that. So what I know, you're not in the business of giving advice to people. You're clearly coming from a place, especially now, of genuine humility. And you said it's important to work on yourself before you start running around telling other people how to live. And I respect all of that. But if you had a son who was like 15 or 25 or older and said, what advice would you give me about how to live? What would your advice be?

Don't put your faith in any man.

Yeah.

You're going to be disappointed every single time.

Yeah.

That's really wise. There's something in us that wants to believe in other people. Did you put your faith in Pete Hegseth?

Yep.

What was your takeaway from your interview with him?

Well, if I remember right, I mean, I don't remember the interview that well, but if I remember right, Pete wanted to be the Secretary of the Veterans Affairs.

He did, in the first term.

And I just have no— I just don't really have much interest in the Veterans Affairs. And so I steered the interview into what would you do if you were Secretary of Defense, because I was much more interested in that kind of stuff than I was with the Veterans Affairs. Being a veteran, I just think the VA is a lost cause. Really?

Yeah.

And, um, and, uh And so I steered it that way. And then 5 days later, the fucking— after the release, the guy gets— I, I didn't even want to interview Pete because it was a book. He had a book out and he's a Fox News guy and I fucking hate Fox News. And I was like, I don't know, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to interview him because he's a Fox News guy.

Yeah.

And, um, I was like, all right, like, I think it was a whatever. I was like, all right, we'll do it. And then it was like, all right, hurry up and get this interview out. I just— you just get it out.

Like, let's get this over with.

You didn't think you were about to change history of the world?

No.

Yeah.

And then 5 days later, he gets picked up for Secretary of Defense.

What did you think when you heard that?

I was like, holy shit. That's crazy. And then it inflated my ego. I'm like, holy shit, the show has power. Then I went to the Army-Navy football game and he points at me, he goes, thank you. I'm like, I was up at the box with all the bigwigs, you know, Vance and Trump and all of, all of them. And I'm like, what the fuck am I doing here? But it, you know, it inflates my ego and I'm like, holy shit. And then Then everybody else gets picked. Cash Patel, Tulsi, you know. Now I'm not saying like I'm the guy, but for that one, that interview definitely had some influence.

How do you think it's gone?

I don't know. I mean, I don't think any of these guys really have any— you know, the funny thing is like, you, you You see all these people get up there and they get addicted to this fucking power that they do not have, right? You know, it's like you think you're so powerful.

That's so—

but you can't even—

smart.

You can't even say what's on your mind. Like, you're powerless. You have no fucking power. You're just around— you're around power that's telling you what to do and what to say. And it's like, I don't get the addict— but they probably don't see it, you know what I mean? They probably don't see it. But they think they have all this power, and they really— they don't have any fucking power because they can't say what they really think. Yeah, they can't say what they were— they won't even stand up for what they believe in, man. Like, look at the shit that's happening. You really— you're gonna sit here and tell me the fucking country's going great while the President of the United States' kids are buying private islands with bunkers? Must be going great. Fair.

I hadn't thought of it that way. That's probably not a good sign then, right?

Maybe not. I don't know, maybe they got some insider information. But, you know, I mean, how can you— like, what?

Why do you hate Fox News?

Um, it's so great. Yeah, I don't know, maybe I should give it another chance. It's probably been 3 or 4 years since I've watched it.

Me too.

I don't think I'm missing anything, but, but I mean, can you push, drill down a little bit on that?

What about it turned you off? I'm just interested.

I, I worked there at one point, so yeah, I mean, just a, just a It's just lies over there too, I think, you know. It's, it's with both. It's not just Fox News, it's all of them. It's all of them, you know. And you see, you know, especially like now, I haven't seen it in a while, but I would see things pop up on X and stuff, and I'm like, and I, I the older generation that watches it. That's how I know what's going on on there, you know. And it's like, man, did you know about like this and that, the other? Like, are you getting a full picture here? Or they don't know anything. It's, it's just crazy to me. Like, they listen to only, you know, one source. And it's like, man, like, you, you're not getting a full picture here, and they're, they're hiding shit from you. Maybe they're not, maybe they're not lying, they probably are, but they're hiding shit from you. They're hiding the full picture. They're hiding the full picture of the Upstate Files. They're hiding the full picture of everything. Iran War, like, is anybody over there talking about the petrodollar?

No.

Is anybody talking about the schizophrenic leadership that we're dealing with right now. Like this shit with Canada. Like, could you imagine like doing business with the US? Like the Canada pipeline. And I'm going to butcher this, but like what, the Biden administration denied it. They didn't want the, the, the Keystone— was Keystone? Yeah, Keystone Pipeline coming in. And then they're like, okay, so then they do some deal with China and then we, what, throw like a 25%— then Trump comes in, we throw a 25% tariff on them for doing business with China, then we throw a 35% then we do 100% tariff. And it's like, dude, what the fuck is Canada supposed to do? They tried to pipe it right into the Midwest, we denied it. Now you're gonna— now you're gonna— you're gonna put 100% tariff on them for making a deal with somebody else that we— they offered us at the beginning? Like, if there— if I was a foreign country, there's no way in fucking hell I would do business with the United States.

Because there's no continuity.

It's just— no, yeah, it's literally like dealing with a crazy person, like a schizophrenic fucking crazy person. Like, shit, I just offered this to you guys like a couple years ago, now you're like going crazy on me. What, what are you supposed to do?

I think you're supposed to remember that's just one.

I think the answer is Putin is bad. He's very, very bad.

That's the rumor.

I think one of the main reasons that the United States, which is protected from the rest of the world by the world's largest oceans, never been invaded, has all the natural resources we need and a lot of great and smart people. The whole reason that we've been perpetually at war really since 1917, is because identifying a foreign threat or foreign enemy or something to worry about far away removes attention from our own bad leadership. It's a way of our leaders to be like, okay, you're right, but Putin. But honestly, the problem is Putin or Hitler, who's been dead for 85 years or whatever. It's like, okay.

Like this straight arm move stuff. I, I, from what I understand, like, nobody really controlled it before. No. Now, now Iran has discovered, like, holy shit, like, the United States can't even shut us down. So now there's— I'm sure there's going to be tax and escorts and everything until the end of time, because if we can't shut them down, nobody's going to shut them down, of course, you know what I mean? And so, hello, new gas prices. Like, they're not fucking coming back.

We just turned Iran into a global power. Yeah, and it will remain a global power for the rest of our lives, at least.

Good job, admin.

Yeah, good job. Did you think when you interviewed Pete Hegseth, did you— since you served in the military under a Secretary of— well, then it was Defense, now it's of War. In fact, let me just interrupt myself and say, what do you think of the change from Secretary of Defense Department to Department of War?

Oh, I thought it was— I thought it was stupid.

Yeah.

I thought it was like, what, what, why, why? You'd know that's just gonna piss people off.

What's the—

who cares? We had to make— and then, and then of course we had to make a big show about it. I mean, I think Pete has done some good stuff, you know. I mean, yeah, he's cleaned up some of the— all, maybe all of the DEI stuff. I think that's great. Good job, you know what I mean? But, but I mean, you know what I mean? I, I don't really know how much influence the Suck Def even has anymore. You know, so, um, good job on that because that sucked. And I, you know, I saw a lot of— I saw morale come back. I still got some buddies in, but I'll tell you what, uh, I just had some buddies leave and everybody knows what this is. Everybody knows they're fighting for Israel. It's a joke. And this isn't me saying this. This is not me saying this, right? This is them. This is This is the guys that are going to go over there in Tier 1, Tier 2 units that are joking around saying like, yeah, this is, this isn't even for us. And you know, through just throughout history, that's, that's not a winning strategy.

Well, especially since if they don't believe in what they're potentially going to do, which hopefully they're going to do nothing. Yes, but high probability they're going to do something. And they know it's not for the United States, it's for a foreign country, like, then fight's out of the dog, buddy.

Really? Well, especially because they could get killed. I mean, the kind of high stakes—

that's what I'm getting at. Yeah, they know it's not for us. We're not defending our country.

And you think they know that?

No, I don't think they know that. I know they know that because I just had a going away party for one, and that's all he was talking about. It's fucking sad.

I mean, it's such a betrayal. It's such a betrayal.

Like, why don't you just get out, man?

Because it's what he does for a living, right? Yeah, what do you do after that?

Exactly.

Like, probably start a podcast.

Yeah, no, but seriously, what do you do?

I don't know if we need like more shooting schools or executive protection. I mean, those— I feel for those guys. They have these specialized talents, skills honed at great expense over years.

Well, you know, you got to give them hope, and so Um, because yeah, that's where most of them wind up, and a lot of them are happy doing it, you know. My poor guy is. But, uh, but just saying, if you don't, then you have to be willing to reinvent and start from zero and go to one, and that's really fucking hard to do, but that's what you have to do.

Do you talk to people getting out a lot?

Yeah, not a lot, but I mean, I'm getting older, you know, so I'm losing touch. And, uh, most, most of my generation is out.

How do they feel about what they did?

Pissed.

Really?

Majority of them are pissed.

And these are GWAT people?

Yeah.

What are they mad about?

They don't believe it was for, for the right reasons. I just told you the Pete Blaber episode. You know, the whole Iraq invasion was based off of a fucking lie. A water truck, an air conditioning unit, and a guy taking piss outside of a building.

That sounds like weapons of mass destruction to me, Sean.

We sure showed them, didn't we?

So at some point you got recruitment problems if people believe what you just said, right?

Yeah, I would imagine. I don't know what the numbers are.

When you were over there, did you think a lot about why you were over there?

Yeah, but you know, information didn't flow like it does now, so we all thought we were there for the right reasons. And, um, really the only gripe was coming home and listening to all the, all the liberal Democrats bitching about the war. Turns out they were right the whole fucking time.

I know, but that's a head trip right there. That's hard for me to admit, but it's true.

So that raises the question.

So, like, guys in SEAL teams or Delta or any of the most famous and highly trained special operator types, I always assume that they're right-wing Republicans. I've always thought that. Is that still true?

I don't know. You know, I don't, I don't know. I don't really— everything's just so mixed up now. Yes. Shit, you just got a love letter from my mother-in-law who hated you a year ago. You know what I mean? Everybody's mixed up. I don't think anybody—

show me a very nice letter. She's now a subscriber.

Uh, I thought she was never going to talk to me when you wrote her a letter a year ago.

I did. I, I wrote it in jest, but also from one Protestant to another. I thought I could make a connection.

But anyway, and you did.

It's hilarious. She seems very sweet, actually. Everything's so messed up now. That's right. How would you describe your politics? Do you have politics or are you just not even interested anymore?

I'm a Christian. Yeah.

So my last question is, what do you think? So you know what's going on in your life. You've had— and thank you for talking about it. I know it's like you're in the middle of it, so it's hard to talk about it. Um, but do you see it happening in other people? Like, do you think there's something bigger going on?

Oh yeah, I mean, yes, I do. I don't know what's real and what's not though. I think that there are people also that are, you know, coming to Christ who are like, oh, look what happened to that guy, you know what I mean, with his view counts or what it— like, it's like the thing to do now sometimes, you know. So I don't, I don't know. But yeah, I think that— I think there's a wave of it happening. I mean, there's definitely a resurgence in the younger generations. Yes. You know, and, and so that's really cool. That's really cool to see.

And you see that?

Yeah, I see it. I see it. I see when I go to church, everybody's paying attention. And I bounce around from all kinds of different churches.

Not this morning.

The priest didn't show up out here, I should say.

You texted me.

Thanks for coming in this morning.

You want to go to church with me? This is the least Christian state out of 50, so there aren't many churches and, uh, active churches. But you decide Monday morning you're going to church?

I go 3 to 4 days a week now. Really? Yeah, I like to bring I, I, I bring my 2-year-old, and then the next day I bring my 4-year-old. And after each time we go to Mass, I bring them to breakfast and we get some one-on-one time, and then take them home, and then I go to work.

That's the best.

It's awesome. I love it. And they're into it. Really? Yeah.

I remember bringing my 2-year-olds to church and it was like a nightmare. Climbing on your head in the middle of communion.

It will be if I bring them together, right?

Oh, is that right? You split them up? That's smart.

Yeah, one-on-one time with Dad. And they want to go. They ask me, can I go with you today? And really, it's pretty cool. Yeah, we talk about communion. They ask about the special bread. It's pretty neat.

And do people who you grew up with, who you talk to, your friends, guys you served with, are they thinking more about God than they—

oh yeah, all of them. All of the— you know, you know what's really cool actually is, um, you know, you're addicted to the fight. I can see it. These guys are addicted to the fight. I'm addicted to the fight. A lot of these guys have fought for 30-plus years. And, um, like a guy like Tom Satterly, uh, who I brought to the out party with me. Yeah. And, uh, he was a— he was in Somalia, you know, when that whole thing went down. And then the whole—

the man.

Yeah, amazing human.

Yes.

I mean, all these guys are like, you know, addicted to the fight. Now they're— man, there's just so many of us that are, are diving into spiritual warfare and learning about it. And, and, uh, so that's— it seems to be the new thing with my old community. Really? Yeah, it's pretty neat.

I think of it as guys who were the real door kickers, people who were actually pulling the trigger. Pretty secular group, I always thought. Is that fair?

Yeah, I would say so. But in these times, not so much.

Amazing.

Yeah.

Thank you for talking about all this.

My pleasure.

I know it's painful, but I think it's really inspiring. Thank you.

Well, thanks for having me, man.

Literally anytime.

I love coming out here.

I love having you, Sean Ryan. Thank you.