Transcript of Jimmy Dore: Charlie Kirk’s Murder, Thomas Massie & Finding God Through the Propaganda Hellscape New

Jimmy Dore, thank you for doing this.

Uh, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

So it seemed to me so much is happening, it's hard to get perspective on any of it, but it does feel like Thomas Massie's loss in the primary in Kentucky two weeks ago was like a kind of pivot point in American politics. What was your response to it?

Well, my response to it was, how dare we, you know, tell— preach democracy around the world and tell people that the people in China are oppressed when we obviously don't have democracy here, right? This is a complete— we just gave up. And, uh, and so now it's the oligarchs. As I was telling you before, you know, it's just proof that we don't live in a democracy. You know, they did that Princeton study in 2015 about how it doesn't— the 90% of people, their wishes never are expressed in legislation, and it's only the top 10% of the wealthy people. And there's a direct correlation: if 50% of the wealthy people want something, 50% of the time it happens, you know? And so, but the bottom doesn't matter. Your vote literally doesn't matter. And we're living in that. And so, you know, I was telling you before, in China, the government sits above capital. Yes. And so the economy works for the people. But in the United States, capital is above the government. And so the economy doesn't work for the people. It works for a handful of international globalist billionaires, which is why we have homelessness everywhere.

We have the biggest prison population in the world. And we still go bankrupt just to get educated. You get bankrupt when you get sick. And like I say is that we're like, and we live in a surveillance state. And so we're like China except we have more street crime and slower trains.

And we get lectured constantly in the most self-righteous way by the worst people. It's a hard jump for your average right-winger me, for example, to accept the fact that corporations are even more malicious than government?

Way more.

I think I'm coming around to that just because the evidence is overwhelming. But I do think there's like a training that takes place where you just have someone point to Soviet Poland and you're like, that's the option to what we have. And you're like, I don't want that. I don't like potatoes. You know what I mean? Bad architecture. Grim weather. But I kind of believe that.

You believe that that's the option?

That was the option. So either you have, like, Google runs everything and they do it in Technicolor and it's, like, free and it's great, or the state runs everything and it's Soviet Poland. And so I do think the average right-winger, or again, I'll say from a speak for myself, it's like hard to accept that you want to live in a system where billionaires don't control everything. Like, that's not good.

That's not good. That's— look, look around.

That's just—

you're right. This is the system we're living in. And, you know, corporations, there's no long-term planning, right? At least in China they have long-term planning, right? Which is why they get to have flying cars and great infrastructure and beautiful bridges that make their own waterfalls and own rainbows, stuff like that. It's just amazing. Uh, and in here, because they don't in corporations only care about quarterly profits, so they don't care if the whole company crashes as long as they can show a profit in the quarter. I think that's right. And that's the problem. There's no long-term planning in America. And that's why— and, you know, I also have a firm belief that, uh, like in California, they spent $24 billion to try to fix homelessness, and none of it— it just got worse. And, you know, I think you've talked about this, that It seems planned because it probably is that they want us to live in this kind of hellscape so we beg for authoritarian solutions to these problems.

Yes, that's right.

And that's what they're doing, right? So it all started with 9/11. They had the Patriot Act already written before 9/11, right? And as Edward Snowden revealed that they're collecting every text, every phone call, every email you make anyway. So we live under— And then it's just getting worse, flat cameras, It's like what you said to Kevin O'Leary. It's like the, oh, they're there to help fight crime. Really? Crime rate's going down, are they? No, no. So, uh, yeah, this is what happens. And Thomas Massie, I mean, a guy who won almost unanimously, and then he— his positions didn't change, uh, but then all of a sudden, uh, he loses, and loses big, right? Lost by 10 points. So, uh, and it just— and it was all propaganda and lies. And who knows if they also fiddled with the vote, you know. Why would you put that past them?

Why?

Of course they would. The people who slaughter people for profit, which is what been the last 25 years, uh, since 9/11, just slaughtering people for profit, uh, they wouldn't rig an election? Of course they would. Of course. Yeah.

And, uh, if it's important enough to murder people, it's important enough to take over electronic voting machines. Of course. And by the way, that's the one thing you're not allowed to say. You're not Well, you know, so that's always a, always a tip.

Before 2020, the Democrats used to scream about— oh, I remember— and I have video after video I show on my show about, uh, the Democrats saying how easily hacked these electronic voting machines are. And then there was a day you can't say it anymore, right? Just like you used to be able to criticize Big Pharma, and then there was a day you got— you can't do it anymore, right? Remember? And so, yeah, of course those people would, would rig elections. I mean, they The people who did Building 7 wouldn't, wouldn't rig an election.

No, it's just— you're totally— people risk their lives to rob liquor stores. So, right, a lot's at stake. But I, I kind of wonder, like, why do we have electronic voting machines that are not faster? You don't get to vote faster, right?

It takes forever.

It takes forever. So what is the purpose? What's the utility? Why, why do we still have them? Why not just, I don't know, give a thumbprint like they do in civilized countries like Malawi?

It's easier to control. I mean, that's the obvious, right? The easiest answer, right? It's easier to control the vote. Anyway, again, we don't live in a democracy. And then there's always the people who'll say, "Well, Jimmy, we don't live in a democracy. We live in a constitutional republic," right? The people who say that, which is true. Of course. But that is a form of democracy. So I always have to tell people that is a form of democracy. You don't have direct democracy because majority rules is a bad thing. You have to have a constitution which protects the right of the minority. Exactly, in case when you have a, you know, tyranny of the majority, which is what we had during COVID Yeah, good point.

But in both a direct democracy and a constitutional republic, the core idea is the same, which is the people rule. It's their country, it belongs to them.

Yeah, and if you believe that, I've got a vaccine I'd like to sell you.

So now I guess my—

I mean, right now we have a— we're having a governor's race in California. And so they have the— they have— it's called a jungle primary. Do you know what that is?

Right, sort of.

Tell me. So, so instead of Democrats and Republicans having their own primary, they have one big primary. Everybody's in it, including independents, including no-party preference people. And the top two vote-getters then face off. And, and so that's to make sure that it's just Democrats. Right? So that's what that is, because we have one-party rule in California. And if you think that's good, go to California and see how it's working out. And so they have a jungle primary. And so someone— Democrats are so unpopular now, even in California, that they're afraid that a Republican or two Republicans might— because the Democrats might split the vote and then two Republicans sneak in. And they asked Governor Newsom and they said, what if that happens? And he said, "Well, we have a plan. We have a break the glass plan." Meaning in emergency, you break the glass. So he's literally saying, "Don't worry, we're not going to allow democracy to work. If the vote doesn't go the way we want, we have a break the glass moment and we're going to fix that." He said that out loud? He said that out loud. But he pays no price for this.

Just like when he said— So in California, like I said, they spent $24 billion $1 billion to fix homelessness, homelessness got worse. And so unanimously the legislature passed a bill saying, "Hey, let's have transparency on how that money was spent." Passed unanimously. Gavin Newsom vetoed it and he paid no political price for that. Nobody even brings it up. And so that's what we're— And again, the one-party rule is, Again, it's like we're in California, we're like China but with more street crime and slower trains.

Will it change?

I hate to be a pessimist, but no, I don't see it changing. You talk to people— my friend lives in the Pacific Palisades, her house did not burn down, and they're having a vote for mayor. And she was asking this guy who was standing there in a burned-out property. And then who are you going to vote for for mayor? And he's like, "Whoever the Democrats say." That was almost a direct quote. And so they don't, just like when the fires happened, I talked to my neighbors, they go, "Well, Jimmy, there's nothing they can do." And then of course there's a million things they could do. And I go, "Did you know that there was a reservoir above the Pacific Palisades that holds 113 million gallons of water? They drained it before the fires. Did you know that?" They go, "Yeah, but that wouldn't have helped." "This is just a direct quote. I guess she didn't go to firefighting school because water's the number one thing." That's their mentality. This whole idea, half the country thinks their party is better than the other party, and it's like, "Oh, there's one party that's obviously better than the other party.

Really? I wonder if this is a trap. Hmm, how could this be used against us?" That's exactly what it is. Just like George Carlin said, you get 40 different brands of cereal. Yeah, breakfast cereal, you get two political parties and it's used against it. At least in China, you people can hold their politicians accountable because they got no other party to blame. Yeah. So when something goes wrong— and if you look at the polls, they're way more happy with their government in China than we are in our country.

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It does seem like, um, the reason I asked will it change, because it, it does seem like it can't continue. Like this?

So it's the only— so what I, what I said after Thomas Massie was that, you know, the last time that the establishment was this unresponsive to its citizens, George Washington picked up a gun and started shooting people.

Well, that's right.

And I'm not advocating violence, obviously. And, uh, but what we need to do— and the truckers in Canada during COVID laid a template for this, which is why they overreacted to them so hard, because they knew they didn't want them— just like when Joe and crush that railroad strike. They had to do that because that would've showed everybody the power of workers. Yes. Because the railroad is the backbone of capitalism. And if you shut that down, it shuts down and the oligarchs get hurt. And so they had to stop that. They made it illegal for them to go on strike. And so what I said is that after Thomas Massey is that we need to have What if all the railroad workers just didn't show up for work for a week or so? What if the port workers didn't show up? What if all the truck drivers didn't show up? And then they went and they occupied Wall Street, which is why Occupy Wall Street scared the hell out of them. Yes. And because that was the left and the right. So you had the Tea Party upset about the banks, you had the left progressives upset about the banks.

They had a common interest 'cause that's the thing they don't want you to know is that we actually have a common interest. They want you to keep turning against your neighbor like your neighbor's the problem. Exactly. And your neighbor's not your problem. Your neighbor is suffering under the same oligarchy that you're suffering under. And they don't want you to realize that you have shared interests and that we can work on the other stuff later, but we got to come together to stop these WEF globalist billionaires that actually run and dictate our lives. And so that's what I'm saying is that we need to have, you know, for all the grocery store workers, all the UPS, all the Amazon, if they, and if a couple of them did it together, It would show the power of the workers that we actually can take. And you have to have a protest. When you have a protest, you have to have a demand. So that's why those No Kings marches or protests, those are psyops. Of course. And how do you know they're a psyop? Because there's no demand. You have to have a demand, a concrete demand.

And so if the workers shut down, if the railroad workers, port workers, truck drivers, if they shut down, They have a demand. Demand is no outside money in elections. We have publicly funded elections. We have an election cycle that's 6 weeks instead of 2 years. And you can't have corporate money. You can't have any of that stuff. It has to be publicly funded. And people say, who's going to pay for that? Well, it costs us trillions of dollars every year because we have corporations funding our elections. It would save us trillions of dollars and we'd have a more responsive democracy if we had publicly funded elections. So that would be my demand. That's so you got to have— you can have a protest, you got to have a demand. And when you see a protest without a demand, that's how you know it's a psyop. That's how you know it's to bring people back into the two-party duopoly and hating each other.

Seems like if you're going to, uh, try to compel someone to do something he doesn't want to do, you have to do something he really doesn't want you to do. So like, I, I— the Occupy Wall Street, which I especially in retrospect We needed that. But the tactic was like, have a protest. They don't care about your protest. What they do care about is money. Why has no one ever organized millions of Americans to say stop paying their credit card bills or stop paying their student loans? Why are people paying student loans? I don't understand that. Uh, it seems like that might get the attention of the people in charge.

Yeah, well, that certainly would. And you know how they— you know, Michael Parenti, who died recently, and he was a real friend of the working man, and he said, you know, the oligarchs, they don't care about if you have healthcare, they don't care about if you can afford a house, they don't care if you have to go bankrupt getting an education. The only thing they actually do care about is what you think. That's actually what they care about.

That's it. That's smart.

And that's why they spend all this money on propaganda. That's why they own the media. That's why they constantly keep you propagandized. And the best propaganda is the stuff you don't realize that is propaganda. You just internalize it and you think that's just the way things are. So that's the—

actually, they care what you think.

That's so interesting. That's the only thing they care about.

That's a deep insight because sometimes it feels like they don't care what you think, but of course they do because the propaganda is just relentless.

Yeah. And Michael, anybody, you could go watch his speeches on YouTube. They're all over the place. And he's got a great sense of humor. And he was— He was what Noam Chomsky people pretend he is, right? Exactly. Yeah, he was the real deal. He was, you know, a fraud. You know how you could tell that? Uh, so Michael Parenti, uh, got kicked out of academia, right, in the '70s, and he couldn't get a job, and he was blacklisted. He was, uh, because he spoke up against the Vietnam War, stuff like that. And that's how you know he's the real deal. Noam Chomsky had a job forever at MIT. No problem. And his job was never threatened. And so he was what, you know, what Chomsky taught me, that there's the Overton window. There's as far left as you can go, right? So they'll have on people on the cable news shows that talk about war. It's never, hey, we shouldn't have a war. It's always like, well, how much war should we have? And that's when you have those discussions. And so Chomsky was there to go, you can't go any farther than him. So if you go farther left than him, then you're a crazy nut.

You're a conspiracy theorist. And he was the one, you know, who said, doesn't matter. Who cares who killed President Kennedy? That's what Chomsky said. Yeah, who cared? Who cares? Who cares who overthrew our government? Who did a coup on our government? Who cares? That's— so that's a CIA talking point. Same thing, you know, he just, uh, repeated back that the 9/11 happened exactly the way George Bush said it did. Dick Cheney, who, by the way, when they were asked about it, uh, testified in secret behind closed doors, not under oath, and together. So, uh, so yeah, so I, I—

Chomsky said He affirmed the official story. Yeah, 9/11.

Yeah, yeah. So, um, that's why you should— I advocate—

that's our radical.

That's our radical. And I always tell people, you know, uh, what woke me up to it was like, I'm not an engineer, but I saw Building 7. First of all, it was broadcast 20 minutes that it had fallen down by BBC before it ever fell. They go ahead and, um, and then you're like, wait a minute, this building that wasn't hit by a plane A plane hit a building 200 yards away from it, very far away, and then it fell into its own footprint, uh, like out of sympathy for the other buildings. Like, what? And so that's when I knew something was up. And I would start— when I started my first comedy podcast in 2007 with, uh, with Todd Glass and, um, my wife Steph, and I was talking— I talked about that, and people like, Jimmy, no, it's a crazy conspiracy. There's— I'm like, what? And then even people like Rosie O'Donnell would bring it up on The View. I don't know if you remember that. No. Yeah, she was like, Building 7. And I'm like, I, I know I'm on to something, right? And so, you know, whenever you're not allowed to question something, that's when you know they're up to something.

Of course. And I experienced that with Seth Rich. So Seth Rich, by the way, still not solved. Nobody knows who killed him.

It's a robbery in which nothing was taken.

It was a botched robbery where they didn't take his watch, they didn't take his wallet, they didn't take his phone. And, uh, I was just asking normal questions about the Seth. So the, the theory was that when WikiLeaks published the emails, right? They said it was Russia hacked into the DNC server, but the theory was that this guy was upset that they had rigged the primary against Bernie Sanders. He was a real patriot, and so he had downloaded those onto a thumb drive, and he gave them some through an intermediary, gave it to WikiLeaks, and Julian Assange all but confirmed it, right?

He did all but confirm it. He didn't strictly speaking confirm it, but he basically confirmed it.

Basically confirmed it, right? He was like, "We don't give away our sources." Exactly. You know, and—

but I'm very concerned about Seth Rich's murder, which is, by the way, still on YouTube and worth watching because Julian Assange is maybe the smartest person I've ever met.

Yeah, yeah, and really a smart person. And talk about guts, right?

He's, he's, um, he's— yes, I think people who on the left for years, people are free Julian Assange. I didn't pay that much attention, and then I got to know Julian Assange and I realized Julian Assange way more of a hero even than people pretended he was.

Yes, very much. And I was very flattered. His family came to see me when I was in Australia. Really? Yeah, when I was in Melbourne, they showed up. So it's a—

it was a very wonderful man.

Anyway, um, but he basically confirmed the Seth Rich story, the crazed conspiracy theory. So Seth Rich, there's all these— there's all these questions about his murder, right? Like, where was he when he left the bar to the time he got murdered? There's hours. Where was he? What was he doing? Nobody. And so there's all this stuff. And how come there's There's no video of this. There's no this. Where's his computer? How come we can't see? And, uh, so I did— I was covered. I was at The Young Turks at the time and I was covering it. And, uh, then The Washington Post put me in a hit piece, right? That I was crazy conspiracy theorist. And they put me in a hit piece. This is when legacy media was afraid of YouTube taking away their viewers. And so they would run these hit pieces on YouTubers, and I was one of them. And they put me in with like, look at all these— there's Nazis on YouTube, there's white supremacists on YouTube, there's all this, hey, your kids are going down rabbit holes, they're being radicalized on YouTube, and they put me in there and they put about Seth Rich, right?

And so, and I don't even want, I don't want to even mention the guy who did it, but the guy who did it works for the Washington Post and he was, he's the guy, he did pro-war rallies for the Iraq War. Right, when he was in college. Yeah. And, uh, and of course that's the guy Jeff Bezos taps to go cover progressive politics.

That is the guy.

And so anyway, he puts me in this hit piece, and, uh, nobody really had my back on it. And I remember I was on a panel one day on The Young Turks with, uh, Cenk Uygur and, um, Ben Makovits, other people. And I, and I said to him, can you remember the last time a reporter wasn't allowed to ask questions about an unsolved murder? And they're like, well, no, they didn't know. And I'm like, of course, this is crazy. And so people would slander me. Jimmy Dore's a Seth Rich conspiracy theorist, right? And, uh, and the big thing was, uh, you're not supposed to ask questions because it hurts the family and it's upsetting their family.

Really?

I've been watching John F. Kennedy get his head blown off since I was a kid. What about his family? Nobody seems to care. Uh, no, that's right. So that's how you know that was—

so then, because all of us have a right to justice for all American citizens, like that's our country's promise. So it's not about— I mean, I respect the family. I feel obviously bad for them. Their son was murdered. You don't want to offend people unnecessarily, but it's not about a family. It's about the nation, right?

Yeah.

Do we have a country where murders are solved, or do we have a country in which investigations into murders are thwarted for political reasons? You can't have that country.

Uh, yeah, I don't remember Jackie O coming out and saying, stop looking into this. Stop! She didn't say that.

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Did anybody back you up on this? Oh, when you ask questions about—

so no, So in fact, YouTubers did hit piece after hit piece on me along after the Washington Post put me in their article. And that's when I'm like, okay, I'm on to something. And so then people wanted to see the contents of Seth Rich's laptop. Yeah. And at first the FBI said, well, we don't have it. And then they're like, okay, we have it, but we can't get the information out. Okay. Then they're like, okay, we got the information, but we can't release it because of the ongoing investigation.. And, uh, so, so they lied 3 times. And then the judge— there was a judge that ordered them to release the contents. They ignored it. A second judge said you got to release it. They still, they still haven't released it. So it's been now 10 years, 10 or 11 years since he got murdered. We still don't know the contents. So that's how you know they're up to something, and you know there was something to that. And we know for a fact that Russia did not hack into the DNC server. I know. I brought Bill Binney on my show, was the number 1 code breaker for the NSA for decades.

Immediately, I brought him on my show in 2016 to debunk this. He said, "Yeah, if they did this, if this was an outside source," he said, "there would be all these telltale signs that they did it." I'm not a codebreaker, but he would go, "And none of them are there." This was local, meaning it was downloaded onto a thumb drive. It wasn't hacked by— Exactly. That's how I knew Russiagate was a scam. Russiagate served many purposes. One of them was to keep Trump from being the populist he ran on the first time. Yes. And second part was to get people ready for the war in Ukraine because they had that in the chamber for over a decade. And so it propagated. I remember when George Bush said he met Putin and I looked into his eyes and he was— I saw he's a good man. Yeah, I'll never forget it. And then they were like, hey, we got to— what are you doing? We got to stop that, right? They would go fishing together on Kenny Bunkport and stuff. And so Putin was our friend. And then they were like, no, no, we gotta have a war.

'Cause you know, BlackRock, Vanguard, and State Street, they wanna Balkanize Russia. They wanna split it up and sell it off.

Worse.

For parts, which is what they do, right? And they thought they were gonna be able to do that with the Ukraine war. And as Angela Merkel revealed that when they had the peace agreements in Ukraine, that that wasn't really for peace. That was just so the Ukraine had the time to build up their military to get ready for this war that they provoked from Putin. Putin. And so, but people don't know that in the United States. People don't know anything because the people who want that war own the media. And then people like me who know that and I tell that story, I'm considered borderline content on YouTube and they call me a conspiracy theorist on Wikipedia even though I was right about it. And just like I was right about the Syrian gas attacks, which now the OPCW admits that they suppressed the whistleblowers. But they, I mean, literally they had, you go to Wikipedia and it would say Jimmy Dore's a conspiracy theorist because CNN says that the gas attacks happened the way that— and I'm like, yeah, that's all garbage. And so anyway, they're smart. They, just like Michael Parenti said, they only care about what you think, which is why they control the media so they can control what you think, right?

And you don't get a $35 million contract for debunking Russiagate. You get a $35 million contract like Rachel Maddow got for pushing Russiagate. In fact, when the war started in Iran, I watched the video of hers. She's still blaming Putin. Putin. She's saying he's doing the bidding of— as if Putin wanted that to happen because now he gets to sell oil at a higher price. Yeah, that was an unintended consequence of this war. Trump had to take the sanctions off of Russia. And so anyway—

But if you're Rachel Maddow, why not just come out against the war in Iran? I mean, that was a pure Trump thing and Bibi. Everybody in your audience hates Trump and Bibi, so why wouldn't you just say that? Um, why blame Putin? That's like insane.

Because they have to keep that war going, I guess, and she's a puppet of the military-industrial. Again, you don't get a $35 million contract, which is what she got, uh, for telling the truth. You know, Tucker, I use you as an example all the time. You know, they— you don't get fired for lying. He got fired when he started to tell the truth about the neocons and the military-industrial complex, the Syrian War, which is when you and I first connected because we were the two people telling the truth.

You were the only other person, and I thought, am I going insane? There's no evidence since that this happened. I don't even know Assad. I didn't have strong feelings about Assad. Um, he's certainly better than what we have now in Syria, but I, I was just like, this just seems as like a reporting matter, like a lie. And you were the only other person saying that. The only other person.

I remember doing a video and I said, boy, when, if it comes down to me and Tucker telling the truth about this, we're screwed. And of course we are screwed because now Al-Qaeda runs Syria. Exactly. Exactly as I predicted. Exactly as Tulsi Gabbard predicted.

I know.

That if you get rid of Assad, who's going to take over? Al-Qaeda or ISIS, by the way, which we're funding and probably created. So, and isn't it interesting that ISIS and Al-Qaeda, the sworn enemies of Israel, never attack Israel? Isn't that interesting?

It is kind of weird.

Yeah, it's kind of, it's almost like they invented them for a purpose. People don't care. People don't, I talk about this, people don't care, especially my, you know, my ex-friends in Hollywood. They have no idea about any of this stuff. They don't know that the— so they see a guy who's running, uh, Syria now, and he's got a blue Brooks Brothers suit on, and he's meeting with the president, and he's meeting with Petraeus. He's over at Downing Street, and they're like, yeah, he's, he's our guy. I'm like, you know, he's the, he's the former head chopper from Syria, from Al-Qaeda, right? Like, huh, what? I know they all look like Kash Patel. I don't know what's going on, you know.

So, uh, it's funny, even the, the Gulf Arabs when Jelani took over Syria, they were more uncomfortable than our State Department. Our State Department was like, yeah, okay, it's totally fine because the Israelis wanted it. But even the Gulf Arabs were like, ooh, this guy's pretty scary. Really? We going with this?

And Gaddafi predicted all this and that's why they had to kill him too. Oh yeah. He gave a speech at the Arab League where he talked about, you don't think they're going to come for you next? They're coming for you. And they did. And they came for him because, well, he was a threat to the petrodollar because he was gonna create the dinar, right? And the most successful country in all of Africa. And he was gonna unite Africa and they can't have that because they wanna go in there, you know, as Michael Parenti says, it's not a poor continent, it's a very rich continent. And they just keep the people poor so we can extract all their resources, which is what they do. And so he was gonna unite the people of Africa and they can't have that 'cause that would be a threat to the euro, it'd be a threat to the US dollar. And so that's why he had to go. To go. Plus, he said, if you get rid of me, they're going to flood Western Europe. He thought he was safe because if they got rid of him, then all the refugees, uh, would go flood.

But it turns out that's exactly what they wanted.

Exactly.

And why do they want that? They want that for the— because they, again, they want you hating your neighbor. They want you to be afraid of your neighbor and fighting. So just like in the United States, why did they have open borders? And I'm very pro-immigrant, but the reason why they want to flood the country with— is for it to— by the way, Bernie Sanders used to be against open borders. Of course. And he would say it's a Koch Brothers scam. Of course. And of course—

To lower wages, obviously.

Lower wages, and then keeping poor workers fighting against even poorer, more desperate people. Exactly. Instead of coming together, realizing your common interests, and fighting against the oligarchy. And what I tell people is if you find yourself angry at someone lower on the economic ladder than you, pretty good chance you're being manipulated by someone higher on the economic ladder than you. And so that's why I'd say, you know, don't blame the immigrant because you would do exactly what they're doing.

I agree completely.

I would do whatever I could to get into the United States. 100%. Yeah, I would lie, cheat, and steal.

I'd walk from Tegucigalpa any day.

That's right, to give my kids a better life and myself. And so that's what they did in Europe. So you go there and it's to dilute the culture, and get people fighting amongst each other so you don't come together and fight the man.

And but Gaddafi thought that, and he thought that they didn't want that.

I didn't realize that they wanted that. And as soon as they realized that they wanted it, he was gone. So there was many reasons to get rid of him. And of course, you know, Hillary Clinton famously said, yeah, we came, we saw, he died. And she giggled about it because they're blood-soaked psychopaths.

I don't think that's an overstatement.

It's not an overstatement at all. Are you kidding me? They're all for the Iraq War. They killed a million people in the Iraq War. And look what they did to Libya. Now it's got open slave markets still to this day. Nobody cares. They used plutonium-tipped bombs. So Gaddafi took desert and turned it into farmland. He created a water system, which is considered the 8th wonder of the world. And they bombed it. They bombed it with depleted uranium tip bombs. Why? Uh, to make it a failed state. Uh, and so now the water is polluted with, you know, uranium.

And was that NATO?

Yeah, that's the good guys.

Yeah, the defensive alliance.

Yeah, the defensive alliance, right? UK, France, and the United States. We were the good guys. That's what people think. Just, I'll never forget, uh, when Tulsi was running for, uh, President, and he went— she went on Stephen Colbert, uh, who's one of the biggest disappointments ever to comedy. And he said— when she was telling the truth about Syria, right, and she was saying, you know, we shouldn't be doing this regime change wars and stuff, and he leaned over and he said, I see America as a force for good in the world, with a straight face. With a straight face. That's a grown-up man who's been in comedy his whole life. You think America is a force? Do you— have you looked around the world? We have 1,000 military bases. What has that gotten anybody? Did you see what we did to Iraq? Did you see what we did to Libya? Do you see what we're currently doing to Syria? He didn't. It's all— again, that's why you get those jobs, because that's what you're going to say. If exactly— if they said something like I was going to say, I wouldn't get that job. That people like me don't get on TV like that.

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So I— not to like sidebar here, but what about Colbert, who I always thought was talented?

Extremely. He did the best show ever. I liked his show way better than The Daily Show when he did The Colbert Report. Yeah. And then he became that guy. The guy that he was. Who knows? Uh, you know, your guess is— I'm not a psychiatrist, but, uh, He became the thing he used to lampoon. He became that guy. And he just repeats military-industrial complex talking points. He helped build up the momentum for the Ukraine war. And I said it about Jon Stewart too. Jon Stewart, who can— supremely talented. These people are supremely talented, but he'll never tell his audience the truth about the Ukraine war. Just like he'll never tell people why he hung a medal on a Nazi at Disney World. Right. And he told the truth about the virus, the COVID virus, on Colbert.

I remember that.

Which Colbert kept trying to stop him and take the legs out from underneath his comedy bit, which was brilliant. He had to literally get off the couch and walk towards the camera so he could finish his comedy bit about where the COVID virus came from. Do you remember this?

Very well.

Yes. And so he paid a big social price for that. Jon Stewart.

He did.

Yeah. And so he talked about, boy, I found out that I didn't know that certain medicines were political. He's talking about ivermectin, and there's a right-wing medicine. He talked about this, um, and then to make up for that, he had to give a tongue bath to Hillary Clinton and Condoleezza Rice. I don't know if you remember that. No. Yeah, which—

oh, that's penance.

That is penance. And then he had to hang a medal on a Nazi at Disney World, which he'll never go anywhere where anybody will ask. And God, by the way, I'm a big fan of Jon Stewart's, and— but I just don't, you know, Chris Hedges told me when the first time he came on my show was that— I'm like, Jon Stewart's great, he takes down both sides. He's like, he'll never challenge the establishment, Jimmy, which is why he's there. And I'm like, oh, in a meaningful way. And that's true. And that's why he's allowed to go on those TV shows and, and have a TV show. I mean, same thing with Bill Maher, right? If, if they were really a threat, they wouldn't be there. They're not a threat.

But Bill Maher, I mean, Bill Maher not— I don't want to be mean, but not a talented guy. Remember going to his house and he has this amazing house and it's like, wow, on the basis of very little native talent. I mean, literally, I know comedians no one's ever heard of who are like kind of geniuses. Not the case for Bill Maher. This was 25, almost 30 years ago. I first thought this and I was like, wow, this guy, how did he get so successful?

So remember when he did tell the truth, when he had that show?

I'll never forget it.

Yeah, so he told the truth about, well, the, the hijackers on 9/11 weren't cowards. He said you could say whatever you want about them, but they, you know, they gave up their own life for a cause. That's the opposite. And boy oh boy, did he pay a price for that. And he got his mind right immediately, and so they canceled him. And the story I've heard was that, um, his management company also represented the Sopranos, right? And so HBO wanted The Sopranos bad. And so they said, "Okay, we'll give you The Sopranos, but you have to give Bill Maher a show." And that's how he got his show on HBO. And just like George Costanza said on Seinfeld when they were pitching a TV show on that sitcom, that they asked George Costanza, "Why would anybody want to watch this?" And he goes, "'Cause it's on TV." And that's why people watch Bill Maher, 'cause he's on TV. And he gets big-name guests, right? Which I'm jealous of. No doubt about it. But he won't bring on people— every time he brings on someone that's to his left, he gets schooled and he gets embarrassed.

Like Glenn Greenwald. When Glenn Greenwald schooled him hard, I've showed that video many times.

Glenn's amazing. And I can't believe he had Glenn on.

That was back in 2011 or 2010, and he's never had him on again.

Of course not.

Yeah. So anytime he has someone to his left, people don't like to— you know, people who consider themselves liberal, the last thing they want to do is be challenged from their left. And so he'll never bring— but Bill Maher, that's why he's— he loves to have— be friends with, like, Ann Coulter and people like that, uh, but he's not going to do that the other way. And, um, so yeah, that's what— that's what we're left with. And that's how he got that job. And, um, that's why— and nobody knows the ratings of HBO, right? They don't— they don't release them. A subscription. But, um, and, uh, you know, I'll say fully that, uh, I'm— I'm jealous of the influence he gets to have on the culture. And I'm, I would, I, and I'm jealous that he has that show.

There's no, but it's waning for sure.

Nobody likes him. That's the weird thing, right? I know, you know, and my wife always says, can we at least have somebody who's fun to look at if he's going to be wrong about everything?

I do think though the Gaza tragedy has forced people into sunlight kind of, because like if you're defending that, you don't have to hate Israel or you know, have any kind of wacky views. But like, how could you defend that? How could a normal person defend that? You're not a normal person if you're defending that.

I think, Tucker, you don't think Israel has a right to defend itself?

I think everybody has a right to defend himself. I just like, that's genocide, that's murdering children. So, and I think a person who's like, likes Israel, loves Israel even, could say, yeah, I love Israel, but like, I love America, but I'm not going to defend the grotesque things that our country has done. Why would I defend that? Exactly. I degrade myself and I lie when I do that. So why couldn't you say, yeah, I really love Israel, you know, but that's disgusting. What, they're starving people who didn't do anything wrong? Like, how could you defend that?

And people don't know that there's a thing called the Greater Israel Project, which I didn't know. I didn't know most of this stuff until October 7th, right? Yeah. I mean, I had covered when Israel would go in and mow the lawn, you know, I would cover how horrible that was, but I didn't really understand the genesis of it. I didn't understand what was going on. And, but after October 7th, I did. Now I understand. I understand that, you know, that Israel was founded by terrorist organizations. And there was a thing called the Nakba and that they say it was invented so because of the Holocaust. And that's not why, because Zionism been around since the early 1800s. That's right, it has nothing to do with that. That was always a problem. And they couldn't get, you know, they couldn't get people to move to the middle of the Dead Sea. Nobody wanted to 'cause the Jews didn't want to go there. So they had to make a deal with Hitler to get people to go. So I know all that stuff now, and I know that it's why a two-state solution isn't the solution, and you have to have a one-state solution, which Bernie Sanders, a video just went around of him saying that he doesn't support a one-state solution because then Israel wouldn't be a Jewish state.

What? And he goes, "And I support Israel." He said, this is our progressive lefty leader.

I was shocked by that video. Is that real?

That's real. Yeah, but he was also, 2 years earlier to that video, he was talking to Ezra Klein and he said, "Yeah, open borders, that's a Koch Brothers." So it's amazing the real view, but he's always been a warmonger. Bernie Sanders, he was for Kosovo and all that stuff.

He was?

Yeah.

It's sad. Bernie Sanders, I saw one Bernie Sanders speech in person and it was in Iowa when he was running in '16. All about the oligarchy's bad. And at the time, I had pretty conventional views, but I've never been for oligarchy. Why would I be for that? It's the enemy of democracy. So I was like, and I know a lot of billionaires and some are nice, but most are gravely overrated. And I kind of liked his speech. It was pure economic populism.

Yeah.

And then so I thought, yeah, I get it. And by the way, the audience was not all I don't know, people playing hacky sack or hippies or whatever. It was like normal people. And that really kind of—

when he was on the anti-oligarch tour. Totally. Isn't it amazing that he didn't do any of those anti-oligarch tours when Joe Biden was president? I know. Kind of amazing. All of a sudden, oligarchy is a problem now. Kamala Harris and Joe Biden had more billionaire donors than Trump did, but somehow now it's a problem. And what else they didn't show you was that there were pro-Palestinian protesters that they had kicked out of those rallies.

Actually?

Yeah.

Yeah. So I missed so much of the detail because that's not my world and I didn't expect to feel that way about it.

Anyway. What I don't understand is, so I went to the 2016, I was a big Bernie Sanders fan. Yeah, yeah. And just for the record, I'm pretty sure he did oppose the Iraq War. So I don't want people going, "He was okay." But he played into the propaganda for the Ukraine War and anyway, he won't call it a genocide anyway. Gaza. But I was a big Bernie guy and I believed in him, which is a hard lesson. Don't believe in politicians. Amen.

Oh, I've learned that lesson.

Yes. Oh boy, it's a tough one. So I went to the Democratic Convention in Philadelphia, Liberty Bell, and it was great. You walked into the convention and half the place was filled with Bernie supporters who wanted to overthrow the establishment, get money out of politics, overthrow the corporatists inside the party, and and give it back to the people. It was amazing. Then it was real— it was a ruckus. It was a real ruckus.

I was there, I remember.

And they turned the lights out on people. They used sound cannon, all kinds of stuff, right? I was there. You were there?

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, it was— it was invigorating. I'm like, this is it, like, we got them. The next time we're going to have a convention, they can't stop this. This is a trick. Well, what they did was they got Bernie Sanders. So, uh, Bernie Sanders tucks his tail, he endorses Hillary Clinton. And he extracts not one concession for doing so. Nothing. He didn't ask for anything for him, for his supporters to vote for Hillary Clinton. And it was 'cause Trump, right? Which, you know, the Democrats, they say they hate Trump, but they love him because that's their biggest fundraiser is Donald Trump. Donald Trump goes away, how are they gonna? So they have to make another. So not only did he do that, but he did nothing with his movement, right? So he had half the people who voted in the Democratic primary on his side, probably more 'cause he got cheated. It. So he did nothing. He didn't ask— just like Barack Obama when he got elected, he disbanded his followers, right? His young people. Same thing with Bernie Sanders. He didn't say, all right, what we're going to do is we're going to shut it down, we're going to have a protest here, we're going to have a protest there, we're going to go occupy Wall Street, we're going to occupy the DNC, we're going to make sure they get corporate money.

He didn't ask them to do anything, anything. And that's how you know, and that he was corrupted and co-opted, put it that And so same thing happened in 2020. They all got together, cheated him in a different way this time. And again, he just endorsed Joe Biden without asking anything. Nothing. We didn't get a public option. We didn't get a raise in minimum wage. We didn't get nothing. And so, and he didn't ask his followers to do anything. And he still won't ask his followers to do anything. Just like AOC, they won't say, "Get in the street." They won't say, "Go protest here, go protest there." They're playing along. They're good boys.

What's AOC's game? What do you think she actually—

She's a narcissist who's using politics for celebrity. She could easily be an actress in Hollywood. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

Does she want a shot at the nomination, do you think?

Uh, you know, of course I think— I, I mean, why wouldn't she? I mean, she got up there and, and she lied at the, at the DNC. So, so let me get back to that. So they didn't have a convention in 2020. 2020, because of COVID So 2016, they have this convention. It looks like the people are going to take over the Democratic Party and return it back to the workers. That's what I thought. I thought, "There's no way they can stop this. This is a train that can't be stopped." So then they don't have a convention in 2020. Bernie capitulates, asks for nothing again. And then the next time they have a convention was 2024. I went to that one in Chicago and you walk in, and I'm sure I told you, it was like I was at a Stepford Wives convention. Nobody cares. I would interview people and I would say, "How do you feel about them not having a primary and just appointing Kamala Harris?" They're like, "Yeah, but we have a process." That's what they would say to a person. They would go, "No, she followed the process and we have a process." I'm like, "Yeah, but that process doesn't involve voting.

Doesn't that bother you?" Didn't bother anybody.

Seth Rich was part of the process.

Yeah. And it was just one billionaire after another billionaire giving speeches at the Democratic convention. And to show you how how failed Bernie Sanders and his movement is. Our Revolution, which was the political organization he founded, is now— And you know who they're endorsing in the governor's race in California? Who? Tom Steyer, a billionaire. Not really. Yes, a billionaire who made his money in private prisons. So that's how bad it's gotten. So there's— I hate to say this, but unless workers rise up in a real way, their life— So that's why I think Trump knows he kind of has to end this war, because if gas prices go to $10 a gallon, which they could easily go to— easily— that it will— people are like, hey, I can't afford to do any— I can't afford to go anywhere, I can't afford to even drive to work. So that would be— that the pain would be so great at that moment, maybe people would rise up in unison. And so we'll see. But that's what it takes. That's what it's going to take. So yeah, so '24 convention, It was just like a step, and I was like, oh, so it's all— they got it, it's all over.

And then, and then, you know, the AOC goes on stage and says, Kamala Harris is working tirelessly to end the— to get a peace deal. They weren't doing anything right. She even said, I'm not gonna— I wouldn't change anything that Joe Biden did. She said that on— when she was on The View, I wouldn't change anything. So, um, a woman who the first time she ran for president could get a vote, she had to drop out. She was like the first one to drop out. Never forget And then she becomes the vice president and then she becomes a nominee and still nobody voted for her. And because I criticize Democrats, because I was a Democrat my whole life until 2016, people immediately go, "Well, if you're going to criticize the Democrats, you must be a Republican. You must be a Trumper. You must be that." I'm like, "No, no." Republicans never asked for my vote. Democrats did and I got tricked. Tricked by them. I got tricked by Bernie Sanders. I got tricked by AOC hard. I was the first TV show she came on. Well, I wouldn't call it a TV show, but I was the first show she came on, and she tweeted it out.

I was on Jimmy Dore Show today and all that stuff. And then as soon as she got elected, she never returned a phone call. Never.

No way.

No, no way. In fact, when I held her to her campaign promise with Force the Vote, which was trying to get them to extract something from Nancy Pelosi for their vote as her first speaker, when there was only So they— it was called Force the Vote, and it was a watershed moment because it proved that no matter how many progressives you elect inside the Democratic Party, they're not going to do what you want them to do. They're not going to even do what they campaigned on, very much like Trump. They're going to go along with the establishment. They wouldn't oppose Nancy Pelosi. They wouldn't extract anything. And the thing that they were— everybody agreed in the Democratic Party for decades, including Nancy Pelosi, that we need to have a vote for Medicare for All on the floor of the House. Not that it would pass, but that it would expose the people who were fakers saying they were for it, and it would start a national conversation about it, and people would get informed about what it actually is, and it would help build the movement for it. And they wouldn't do that. They all ran on it.

It was in the DSA, uh, handbook from 2019. They opposed it. They opposed— and she ran on it. She said, we can't even get a vote for Medicare. Think about that, she said at a campaign rally. Think about that. We can't even get a vote for Medicare for All on the House floor. She said that. So I'm like, boom, this is the thing to do. And so when I started the Force the Vote and I got a big coalition of people behind it, and she said I was committing stochastic violence against her. No way.

I've never really understood what that term means.

It means that you're exposing them for being hypocrites, and so they have to try to discredit you some way. That's what that means.

So you're a terrorist for—

So I'm inciting violence against them with words. That's what they're trying to say. And because I said F, I said F-A-O-C, and she used that as a— that's because that's not politics, that's stochastic violence.

Okay, so what about Newsom?

I think he's fantastic. Don't you think he's great? I think he cares about the people. I think it's great. I think he's gonna— he's, he's gonna make the country look as pretty as his hair. That's what I think.

Does he— I mean It feels like he's the nominee.

We'll see. I mean, he's got a— he's got the gift of the gab. Oh, he's unbelievable. He really, he really knows how to, to, you know, it's like Obama. Like, I would feel better after, after Obama gave a speech. I feel good and I know he's full of it, and I would feel better even. It's weird. He has that.

And he'll say literally anything.

Literally anything.

And he's fun to talk to. Like, he's a very, uh, he's very charming. Thing.

Like, I will say, yeah, yeah, he does all those movements all the time and he's got the hand thing.

And but is he in any sense like different from Chuck Schumer or Pelosi or anybody like that?

No, they're all— no, you don't get to be there if you are. You're not allowed to be the nominee if you are. If you don't go along and play along, you know, you don't— you know, that's why, um, in 2016, you know, just like Brexit, uh, that Democracy happened and they were like, whoa, whoa, we gotta make sure this doesn't happen. When Trump got the nomination, they're like, we can't let this happen again, right? And same thing with Brexit, we can't let— And so it's all the crackdown on free speech and anti-democratic stuff. And they did Russiagate, which again, already told you served them dual purposes. And then they got— And Trump got his mind right. And now Trump is one of them. And the people that he used to call out, the people that he got elected for calling out neocons.

Oh yeah.

That was his thing. People like, yes, finally there's a guy speaking. Now he's the chief neocon. And people say, and I have to push back on this, a lot of people, I still have friends in Hollywood that I go to dinner with and they're good people because they have the right intentions, but they don't realize they're propagandized. And their whole thing is, "Oh, these idiots who voted for Trump. How did you not know he's the biggest con man in the world?" And I go, "Well, he did have a first term. His first term where he didn't start any new wars." So he was the first president in decades that didn't start a new war. Everybody gets two wars. Clinton, Bush, Barack Obama, he expanded the Afghanistan War and he got to do Syria. Plus he did the drone wars, which killed 90% innocent people. He dropped more bombs than George Bush. People don't know that. Barack Obama dropped more bombs than George Bush. Then Trump got in and he didn't do it. You're like, "What?" Then he wanted to pull troops out of Syria and we find out that the military lied to him and said they did and they didn't.

You know about that story. Of course. And so it was like, so he had a track record and I did not, nobody saw that. So people say they saw it coming, that he was always a con man. Yeah. What politician isn't a con man? Yes, I agree. But his particular presidential campaign was the biggest con I've seen since Nigerian princes learned how to email. It was amazing.

And people even more clever than any Nigerian prince I've ever been emailed by, he got people way smarter than me, uh, convinced.

And, you know, and, uh, I didn't vote for Trump. I never voted for Republican. I voted for Dave Chappelle. I wrote him in. And, um, but, uh, but people think that— people who think— people think I did campaign rallies for Donald Trump. I didn't campaign.

Well, I actually did. Yeah, I Well, a number of them.

Yeah. Yeah.

Then to wake up and substantively, he's no different from Chuck Schumer on economics and foreign policy.

Or Lindsey Graham.

Or Lindsey— or Lindsey Graham. And you're like, yeah, but Chuck Schumer is like, from—

for the—

for the Republican brain is like, you know, evil.

Yeah.

And it's like, where do Trump and Chuck Schumer disagree on the biggest issues? And they don't. And so they both want to keep you away from healthcare.

Yep. They both want to do foreign wars. They both support Israel unconditionally and what they're doing. They both want to crush a worker strike. Yeah. So that was why it was so important for Biden and the Democrats to crush that railroad strike because that would've set the template and an example, just like the truckers in Canada. They'd had to stop that immediately, call them Nazis and white supremacists, and they had to debank them and shut down. They had to do that. Because they didn't want that catching on. Oh yeah. And just like Michael Parenti said, they only care about what you think. And if you see that and you start to think different thoughts than the media wants you, they got a problem. And so that's why they crushed that railroad worker strike immediately. And so that, again, this is what we need. We need workers to realize that we have— And there's this thing now where AOC wouldn't join with Marjorie Taylor Greene to oppose the genocide in Gaza. And she's like, "Well, she's white supremacist," whatever. This whole thing. And that's not how you organize. And I experienced that when we had the anti— Right after the Ukraine war started, we had an anti-war rally in Washington, DC, and Code Pink wouldn't join it.

Code Pink, their whole thing is to be against war, and they wouldn't join it because there were certain speakers on the lineup that they didn't feel agreed with their views on LGBTQ. Oh, come on. Are you serious? And I'm like, so that revealed— And I love Medea Benjamin. Yeah, yeah, I do too. But that organization just proved themselves to be a bunch of cosplaying women. Totally fraudulent. Fraud, because that's not how you, everybody knows that, right? It's like, well, I'd like to stop a nuclear war, but not with those people. You know what I mean? That's it. So it's like, that's what gives it power when you are able to join with people who you don't agree with on other things and vehemently disagree on other things and you come around a single idea, that's what gives it the power.

Exactly.

If it's just people that agree with you on everything, they can dismiss you and say, oh, those are those crazy people. Crazy lefties. But if you have these right-wingers who don't agree with you, that's what gives it power. And it's like I talk up, I've been in unions all my life and here's how you don't organize a union. You don't go to the shop floor and say, "Hey, who's here as a gun nut? All right, you're out. Who here doesn't agree with the trans agenda? All right, you're out. Who here doesn't agree with Medicare for All? Okay, you're out. Who doesn't agree on the war? Okay, you're out." "Alright, now I'm going to organize who's left." That's not how it works. No. And Christian Smalls proved that when he organized a bunch of right-wingers on Staten Island, a bunch of Trump voters, to go against Jeff Bezos and the oligarchy. That's not how you go. You go, "Hey, we have a common interest, and our common interest is against the man." Exactly. And so we can forget about those other issues, and we can work on those later, but right now we have a bigger issue, and the bigger issue is to oppose this guy so we can get decent working conditions, we can get healthcare, we can get a decent wage.

That helps lift everybody's boat. And so that's what they don't want you to know. That's the thing that, again, that's the only thing that scares people. And I have, my audience is made up of, and I meet them when I go out and tour the country. I was just in Raleigh, I was just in Atlanta, I was just in Houston, I was in Dallas, I was in Albuquerque. I go everywhere. And I disaffected Democrats and disaffected Republicans. And the people, the disaffected MAGA people, they feel so betrayed. And that's that thing about, oh, they're such idiots, they're such con men. It's like, so if I tell him, at least he had a track record and at least he would give lip service to the things that—

Of course.

They wouldn't even give lip service to it. Kamala Harris wouldn't even give you lip service.

Well, he was also being persecuted, literally persecuted by the establishment. So the idea that he would join with the establishment against his own voters seemed crazy. That could never happen. They're trying to send him to prison for life. So you're like, those were his bona fides, his suffering at the hands of the establishment. You never thought he would join them. At least that's my own thinking.

That's exactly right. On January 6th, which we now know was an FBI psyop. Totally. And Clay Higgins exposed that on your show even. Yeah. But even before that, he was questioning the FBI director and, "Hey, how many FBI assets did you have inside the Capitol?" before the riot started? Uh, I can't tell you that. What? The answer should be none. You would think. Yeah. So of course that— and so they did the same playbook in Brazil, by the way. So again, you don't have to be a Trump fan or a Bolsonaro fan to realize that if they could do it to those people, they'll do it to anybody, which is what I tried to tell Cornel West when he came on my show.

I know.

And he wouldn't listen to it. You know, it's like, if you don't think if they can do this to Donald Trump that they're not going to do it to you if you ever become a threat, or they'll do it to Bernie Sanders if he ever becomes a threat or Jill Stein or anybody, anybody becomes a threat, they're gonna— they use the exact same playbook on January 6th. They did it to Bolsonaro. They had a fake insurgency that overtook the Capitol and they made it illegal for him to run for president. Again, the same thing they were trying to do to Donald Trump, but they couldn't. They— he— because he didn't cross that line. He didn't tell people to go. He did. So anyway, um, uh, that— and people don't really— still till to this day, people don't realize that, that it was, uh, uh, the, the FBI did that. The FBI is not your friend. It's amazing what, what Trump did to the left. Trump got the left to go along with the FBI. All of a sudden they're the good guys. At the CIA, they're the good guys. It's amazing. We know that the FBI infiltrates every lefty organization, and we, we know.

And, and this idea that, um, it's— we have to worry about right-wing, uh, terrorists inside the United States. Well, 9 out of 10, if not 99 out of 100 of those terrorist happenings are invented by the FBI, just like the Whitmers. Exactly. They were going to kidnap her. Turns out 9 out of the 13 people in the van were FBI. Of course. I mean, they do this with all— This is over and over and over again. And so we're a victim of our— And same thing with Big Pharma, the people who went from from protesting GMOs in our food flipped and went for, don't you question Big Pharma over the vaccine. How dare you? Don't you even question vaccines. Don't you? I'm like, what? Science, don't do your own research, which means don't read. And it's the most anti-intellectual thing and people just accept it. That's what dictators do. The church didn't want you to read the Bible. You had to go through the—

The priesthood. The priesthood.

That's right. That's why they didn't allow slaves to learn how to read. It was illegal. And you got people who consider themselves liberal repeating that. Don't do your own research. Don't look into things. Just trust the government. Trust the government and trust Big Pharma. And now we know they lied about everything. And those people still don't know anything. They still think ivermectin's a horse paste.

Actually?

Yes. People tell me on social media all the time, "You ruined your reputation over ivermectin." I go, "Did it ever occur to you that you were lied to about ivermectin? Did it ever occur to you that it's won the Nobel Prize for Human Medicine?" medicine, that it's on the WHO list of essential medicines? It's been prescribed a billion times for humans, saved billions alive. Did it ever occur to you that before COVID they were looking at it to cure cancer? And now there's credible study after credible study that it does cure cancer. The last one, that 80% of the people who took ivermectin for their cancer saw either a complete remission, no growth in their tumor, or, or, uh, or recession, or I don't know what that— if that's a term. 80% Uh, so that you've been lied to about ivermectin. And people— well, now Chris Cuomo will admit that he was— he goes, well, they lied to us. Yeah, Chris, that's why you're supposed to be the journalist and you're not supposed to repeat what they tell you.

Exactly.

You're supposed to actually look into it, which would take 5 seconds for you to look it up on Google, what is ivermectin. But of course he didn't do that. He just— him and Don Lemon would just scoff at Joe. They had to think about this. They had to, they had to color Joe Rogan's skin green. CNN did that when he got COVID, and he got better right away, and he did a video. They colored his skin green. You know that, right? Oh, of course. Yeah. So that's what a threat— that's a threat to the establishment. And so why would they do that? Why would they, why would they lie about ivermectin and say it's horse paste? Why do you think they did that? They did that because it could treat COVID, and then they couldn't get their emergency use authorization for the vaccine. That's why they did that. Same thing with hydroxychloroquine. They wouldn't even let doctors prescribe steroids at the beginning of COVID I know that because my doctor told me that, and she did it anyway. She went and she gave people, and, and they came there and they go, hey, why are you giving steroids?

She said, because my patients are living and your patients are dying. And so I've been, I've been lucky to have good doctors. Yeah. And you saw it early, or I got vaccine injured. Yeah. And that's what— so I wouldn't— I didn't know, I didn't know that they would lie about a virus. I didn't know that they would lie about— I did, I, I bought all the stuff about vaccines that everybody— I did that. I didn't know that there was never actually a placebo test for any of the vaccines. I never questioned that they give 72 shots to a baby from the time it's a baby till the time it's 18 for vaccines. I never questioned, why did they give the hepatitis B vaccine, the first shot they give to a baby? You only can catch hepatitis from intravenous drug use or unprotected sex. Are there a lot of whore babies running around hospitals? Is that what's happening? So, and people don't ever think about that. I was at a Hollywood party and I was talking to a doctor And this is before the election. He's, "Well, I'm really worried about RFK's gonna take away our vaccines." And I said to him, "Do you know how many vaccines that you have to take now on the schedule?" He's, "What?" I go, "72." And his jaw hit the floor.

And I go, "You know the first one?" And just like I said, it was hepatitis B. And he's like, "What? Why would they do that?" I go, "What do you think they'd do that? For money. What do you think? 'Cause they can't get people to take it, so they just put it on the vaccine schedule. That's how it got on there." Read the Midwestern Doctor's Blog. It explains everything.

The Midwestern Doctor's Blog? Blog. I just want to plug that. Anyone who hasn't read that on Substack, Midwestern Doctor. Yeah, he's a— I don't think he uses his name. No. Right. He's kind of a genius and a very decent person.

Yeah. Well, does his own research.

He does his own. He reads.

He reads. He reads studies.

So speaking of, I have to ask you about this because it's not related to anything we've been talking about, But we're talking at breakfast about Carl Jung, the famous psychoanalyst who is often described as the protégé of Sigmund Freud, but a little more complicated, right?

Exactly. No, they're completely different. He broke with Freud big time. In fact, Freud disowned him.

Yes, and hated him and was jealous of him. Who was he? Why do you read him?

So Carl Jung, by the way, it's very interesting how it connects to COVID. Because he realized that your psyche has a need for the sacred and the religion. And he said, if you don't have that, if you don't have a connection to that, that you will project it outward. And what's exactly what happened. So, you know, liberals, the people I know in Hollywood, they're not, you know, spiritual, religious. And so they turn science into a religion.

Yes.

And they turn Fauci into their deity. And so you can't question it. You can't question religion. You're a heretic. So you can't question science. Don't do your own research. Don't read the Bible. Don't read the re— all that. It's the same. It was the same. And I saw it happen right in front of my face. And so Carl Jung is, he was way ahead of his time. And so, um, we had, we share the same birthday, which he would say is a synchronicity. Um, but, uh, I had a quote from him on my fridge for years and I never understood it.

And, and it, but it stayed on your fridge.

Yeah. Because I, I, I guess I had a feeling there was some truth in it. So, you know, about enlightenment doesn't come from imagining forms of light, it comes from making the darkness conscious. And until you make the darkness conscious, it will control your life and you'll call it fate. And so it's all about all the parts of ourselves that are split off and we put into our unconscious or our shadow self, and then we project it. So the things we hate the most and the things we love the most are really a religious experience. And religious meaning rejoining. So we project a part of ourselves that's in our unconscious onto a thing, onto another person. And that's why you see the people who were the most animated in their hatred for Trump had Trump in their shadow, right? That's the part of them that they— Yes. Keith Olbermann, those kind of people, right? So they have that, and so they project it because that's the part of themselves they hate the most, right? And so same thing when you love something, like when a male falls in love, that love at first sight, that's you projecting a thing called your anima.

That's your female side that's in your unconscious, and you project it onto another person. And you feel that like you're being energized from the inside because you are. And, uh, and then you get married, and then of course the projections fall off, and you're like, who's this person I married? That's what happens to a lot of people, right? And that's what happens in midlife, right? A lot of guys in midlife, they have an anima projection, and they feel like, I can't live without this person, because it's a connection to their own soul. Your anima represents your soul. And so it's— and you're like, well, how could I, how could I, you know, disavow my own— this, this relationship? Because it feels like if I do, I'll die. And it's their first connection to their own self, a religious— a rejoining of their conscious mind with their unconscious mind. And so Carl Jung knew we had a soul, knew there's a God, um, which, you know, Freud was totally against all that. Freud was afraid that people would not take them seriously and dismiss them as mystics and whatever. And Jung wasn't. Jung young, had mystical experiences.

He had direct, um, experiences of the divine. And he saw the people at the clergy when he was a kid that didn't. He saw that they didn't. He, he knew he had direct— if you read Memories, Dreams, Reflections, he talks about his autobiography. Yeah, he talks about how he— the clergy, they were just— they were all empty, especially his father. And he would— when he would question it, his father was like, he didn't have answers, and he didn't want him to talk about it. And, uh, and he could see how empty they were, that there was, there was just dogma that didn't— they didn't have direct experience of the divine, and he did. And I've had that, uh, since I started, um, reading Jung. And I said, so I've been going inward, right? So Jung says, he who looks outward dreams, he who goes inward awakens. And so I have a direct connection connection to the divine. I've had numinous experiences. What's a numinous experience? A numinous experience, it's like a sacred spiritual happening that happens to you against your own will and it takes you over. I've experienced that when I quit smoking pot.

People are like, why'd you quit smoking pot? I'm like, I don't know. I felt like there was some outside force telling me to do it and it was hard. Hard. So people who say that marijuana isn't addictive, it is. I was at least 6 months before I could sleep, and it was horrible. I was in bad shape, and I just, I just knew I had to quit. How did you know? I just, again, like I said, I just had this outside— I felt like there was something guiding me to do this, and so I did. And, um, you know, your dreams are your psyche, or as Jung would call it, the Self with a capital S, meaning meaning, um, you know, the divine talking to you and speaking to you in symbols. And we share a collective. So you have a, you have a, a personal unconscious, right? The things that you personally split off from your own personality and put in your unconscious and your shadow. And then you have a collective unconscious, which Joseph Campbell also talked about.

Yes.

And, uh, he was the— my first entrée into this was Joseph Campbell. And he talked about how you know, different societies who had no way of connecting with each other, uh, use the same symbolism to explain life and the spiritual.

Literally, in a way that's spooky.

I mean, spooky, shocking. And Jung figured that out, that we had, uh, we have a collective unconscious, meaning there's only one consciousness, right? So you're not— there's not, uh, your consciousness and then the God conscious. There's just one consciousness and we're a part of it. And the fact that you think you're separate from it is a mistake. And so we're part of it, and as we evolve our consciousness, uh, we evolve the world's consciousness, right? Because we all share a collective unconscious. And one of the ways he figured it out was that, um, he would have dreams and there would be symbols in his dreams, and he didn't know what they meant, but he could tell that they were meaningful. And then he, he was reading about the alchemists. Now, everybody thought the alchemists were trying to turn lead into gold, but what they were really trying to do was turn psychological lead into gold, and they had to do it, hide it from the church. And so he— they had figured out what some of these symbols meant, and he saw them write about the symbols that he was seeing in his own dreams, and he was like, oh my God, I'd never read this before.

How would I know about this symbol to show up in my— so that's when he started to figure out that we all share a consciousness. Yes, that there is one consciousness. There's the one. And, uh, so it's, it's pretty heavy.

You get glimpses of that. I think occasionally people in the course of daily life get just a flash that somehow there's a connection between all peoples.

There is only, you know, it's like, it's like we're hairs on the human head thinking we're separate, right? They're all, you're all part of the same head, you're all part of the same body. It's all, we're all part of the same consciousness. There's only one. And so, um, and we've, you know, split ourselves off from it. We split that into our unconscious. And so if you go into your unconscious, and one of the great ways is to go into your dreams, and, and, and, and see what they're saying to you and treat it. And, you know, like Rumi said, um, what you seek seeks you. And so the more attention you pay to your unconscious, the more it will rise up to meet you. And so I've had numinous experiences. I've, I've had this experience, the divine. I've experienced my encounters with archetypal figures in my dreams that have guided me.

And how did quitting smoking pot after so many years affect your dreams?

Well, they became way more vivid and more often. Really? Oh yeah. Yeah. And so I'm a, you know, I, so I, I speak with, uh, a Jungian, uh, psychoanalyst once a week, and he used to be the head of the Jung Center in, in Los Angeles. And he's remarked to me, you know, uh, often, um, that, you know, you're one of the most prolific dreamers that I've ever encountered. And often when I'm telling him about dreams, he'll just go, oh my God, like he says that a lot. And, uh, so it's been a real awakening. And I realized that I'm not separate from the divine. I realize that I'm not this body, um, that I have an eternal soul. And even though this body dies, that I don't die, uh, that death is the— not the opposite of life, death is the opposite of Earth, life has no opposite. It's eternal. And so once you realize that, it changes a lot of things. Like what? Uh, it changes how I look at everything. I look at the oneness of everything. I look at this isn't permanent, uh, this, this body is not permanent, that I have an everlasting soul that I have to pay attention to, that I have to get in touch with, and fills my life with real meaning and And, um, you know, part of it too is this is your most radical position of all the radical things you've said since we sat down.

This is the most counterculture thing you could say.

Well, people think they need a priest or they need a preacher or a church, which is all good. The community is good. Um, but you don't need them because you already have a connection to the divine within you, and that's where you need to go. And once you realize that, then you don't need them. That's which is why they don't tell you about that. And Jesus said that— where did he say the kingdom of heaven is, Tucker? The kingdom of heaven is in you. Yes. You are the light of the world. And what I do, you will do and greater. And people, they don't need you to know that, which is why they got rid of the parts of the Bible that talk about that kind of thing. And so it's— I was a Sam Harris atheist for a while. I was brought up Catholic. Went to Catholic school for 12 years. It never spoke to me. And the people who seemed to be most Catholic seemed not to really embody it, you know. Uh, and so I was, I was an atheist. I thought, I thought this was it. This is it. And when you're dead, you're dead.

And, and now I realize, no, this is—

what changed your mind? That's a big change.

Well, I had this big dream., it usually starts with a big dream. So I had this dream. I was kneeling down in front of my house, in front of the bushes. I had a fishhook on a string and I was dragging it through the dirt in front of my bushes. And I'm in my dream, I'm thinking, what am I doing? What am I looking for? And then I saw underneath the dirt, I saw it start moving like there was an animal underneath there. And I was like, what the heck? And all of a sudden there's this black cat emerged. Burged, and it was all grimy, and it had like an oil-like substance on it. And I'm like, how could he be even breathing? How could it be under there for so long and not be dead? And then it got up and walked around. I'm like, well, it's, it's okay, it's, it's alive and willing. And so what that— so I knew that meant something. I didn't know what. I, I sought out, uh, I started reading Jung. I sought out, um, Rebecca Egan, who helped me, uh, understand Jung. I got a Jungian analysis.

And so that was, you know, what you seek is seeking you. That was the divine, the unconscious telling me you're ready. You're ready to go into your darkness. You're ready to go into your shadow. You're ready to go into your unconscious. You don't know what you're gonna find there, and it's probably gonna be scary, and you don't wanna find it, but it's there, and it's ready for you to now take the next step in your conscious evolution. And so here I am, and I'm doing it.

That's— what kind of reaction did you get from your friends?

Um, they don't know really. They don't really say, you know, I, I don't really have these kind of conversations very often. I have them on my podcast with people. Uh, like there's, um, I have a book club where we read Carl Jung and we go through it and we talk about it. It's really— it's, it's my favorite thing to do in the world. If I could just do that, I would just do that. You would just read Carl Jung and talk about Carl Jung and talk about it, because that's what it's really all about.

Yeah, that's so different from the world you've lived in though.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I, again, I was an atheist. I didn't know, I didn't know that, you know, they asked Carl Jung, is there a God? Do you believe in God? He said, I don't believe, I know, because he experienced God. He went from 1913 to 1917, he was, you know, I don't know how to describe it. I've described it as he could give himself a, a, you know, a psychedelic trip in a way. He could somehow how consciously access his unconscious. He could meet the archetypal figures in your unconscious, your anima. If you're a male, your soul, he would say, is your anima, which is your female, your feeling function. It's real and it's autonomous and it's in your unconscious. And if you're a female, it's your anima, which is the male counterpart. And so he encountered these, these figures in his— and I've encountered some of them. So I had one of those experiences So, um, you know, it was scary. It's scary to go into your shadow and the things you hate about yourself that you realize you've been projecting onto other people. Yes. And so the, the idea is—

boy, that's so— that's like so familiar to anyone who's self-aware. You do— we all do that.

Yeah. So the, the idea is you make it conscious, this darkness, this part of you that you hate. You make it conscious and you integrate. You don't manage it because it's also positive in a sense. You, and you integrate it into your conscious mind so you don't have to project it on anybody anymore. And you're, you're, you, your consciousness raised, you, you become— so that goal isn't to become a better person. The goal is to become a more whole person and not split off from who you are. And so that's a, to me, that's the, that's the goal, to be, to, to make the unconscious conscious, integrated. And even though you might think it's a bad part of yourself, like, you know, I've been dealing with the, the, the unrestrained masculine, right? Which causes fights and me to be extra aggressive when I don't need to be. And, but you need that part. You need to be able to set boundaries. You need to be able to be angry when you need it, but you need to be aware that where it's coming from so it doesn't come out sideways and wreck your life. And even if you think it's negative, of it's good in a sense.

For instance, right, so the part— look, I always give the example of, um, so like you have this, you know, you have shit in your unconscious. Oh, that stuff is smelly and dirty, I don't want to know that it's part of me. But, and what helps a rose grow? You need manure. Yes. And so out of manure comes a beautiful rose. So you just have to know how to use it, right? Just like electricity, If I don't know, I'm not an electrician, so if I tried to wire your house, it'd burn down. Yes. Right. But if somebody knows how to do it, it'll light up the whole house and the whole world. Right. So you got to know how to use it. And so it's that power. So that darkness comes creativity, and it also can help you blossom. And so you need— so it's the idea again is to become whole. And most people don't do it. And it's hard work because you don't want to see— and a lot of guilt comes with with it, right? Because you find out that in your past you've done things that hurt your own soul and you feel guilty about it.

And I've, I've had that, right, where I've, I realized through my dreams that I've prioritized career or material possessions over my own soul. And the overwhelming guilt that I felt in my dreams— and Jung talks about this, that part of becoming conscious is being able to had no guilt. And I just, I was like, oh my God. And so, um, it's, it's, people don't want to do this work because it's painful, right? And they don't teach this. And they teach, uh, they teach Freud because it's easier. They teach materialism. They don't, they don't teach Jung. Carl Jung was about, you know, your soul and your religious experience, your numinous experience, the encounter with the divine. And if you don't have that, you're going to project it, just like people did during COVID It does seem—

I'm not alleging a conspiracy, but there is a concerted, organized effort to eliminate any consideration of the transcendent, the eternal, the divine from people's consciousness. Like, it's never mentioned. It's considered crackpot even to talk about that. The idea that there's a world that we can't see that's meaningful, that we're connected in any way other than physically. I mean, I don't think there's ever been a society as determined to deny the eternal as ours is.

Well, there's this guy, his name is Bill Donahue, and he's dead now, but he talked about that everybody says they believe in spirits and the Lord and the Holy Spirit and angels, and then when they show up, you're like, oh, it's crazy, right? And I was like, yeah, that's exactly what they do. But just don't forget, the kingdom of heaven is inside you. It's not outside you, it's inside you. You are the light of the world.

When did this come to you?

It was right before COVID was— right when COVID started, I had that big dream, and then I started to go into my unconscious.

Do you notice people around you starting to ask questions, have thoughts like this? It does feel like more people are thinking about it.

I have noticed, you know, unfortunately, yes, but they have questions, but they seek it, you know, the answers in the wrong places, you know, and they go into organized religion. And I think, you know, again, I'm not here to put down religion. I think people need community. But, you know, too often it's about control and that you need to get to God, you need to come through me, which is— you don't. You don't need it. You don't need anybody or anything. You have a connection to the divine, and it's inside. It's not external.

Everyone feels that on some level. Okay, so I want to end by asking—

I'm not an expert on any of this stuff, by the way. Okay. I just know what I've experienced.

It's just kind of weird, speaking of the collective consciousness, that a lot of people I know, like more than 10, started having thoughts like this right around or just before COVID Okay. Almost like people were being prepared for what was coming and gaining a new vocabulary with which to explain it and understand it. People who had never thought about anything like this at all, who were totally wrapped up in material concerns like the ones you mentioned— accumulating wealth, succeeding at work, you know, just whatever, what we're trained to do— a lot of people I know all of a sudden are like, hmm, Praying, maybe that's a real thing. Maybe I should listen to voices whose sources I can't see, stuff like that.

Yeah. Um, again, you, you know, Carl Jung realized at a young age that he had thoughts that he didn't think himself, that were placed in his head by God, and he had a direct experience with God. And, uh, so I've had those experiences Um, and not only, um, do I experience God in my dreams, uh, but I realize that everything is a reflection of God. Everything is God. It's my conscious life and my unconscious life. God is everywhere. Everything. The kingdom of heaven is laid upon earth, but the eyes of men don't see it. So, um, it's now, you know. Now is the time to, to meet God, to know the mind and to know your, you know, your true, uh, identity. It's, it's, it's scary, you know, to, to do that. I had this dream, um, I had several dreams that completely changed my life. One of them, at the beginning, I was scared, you know, of this journey. And, um, I was in the jungle, and there was a clearing in the jungle, and I was sitting there, and out from the jungle Jungle came this like, it was like half human, half ape, but the head was like a lion.

And I was like, and it came over to me and it put his hand out and I was like, oh, it's gonna crush me, you know. I was afraid it's gonna crush me, but it took my hand very gently and walked me into the jungle. And I'm like, what the hell does this mean, you know? And, um, a couple weeks later I'm reading a book And there was that symbol, that the lion face, the half face. I'm like, what? And it's a Mithraic god, it's called a Mithraic god. And so that's part of the collective unconscious. That's like this archetype that we all share in our collective unconscious. We're one consciousness that we all share. And I'm like, oh my God. And so I interpreted that to mean that, um, it's okay. It's going to be safe to go into the jungle of your unconscious. And I'll be there with you to help you and guide you. And it, you know, so that was just one thing. I have many things like that. That's one of them. And when I saw that picture, I'm like, oh my God, that was the thing in my dream.

And so that's one of those things. I had no knowledge of that. I'd never seen a picture of that before. I never, and, but there it was in my dream in a meaningful way. Wow. That's wild. It was wild. I know people think you're crazy when you talk about this stuff. No.

Yeah. On one level, for sure. It's, it's forbidden. It's way more forbidden than it should be. Than criticizing Israel. I mean, this is the actual— no, it's true though. This is the actual third rail, I think, is to admit that you've had experiences with the divine or with a realm that's not physical. Or people are like, come on now. But everyone knows it's true.

Yep. And again, I go back to everybody, you know, believes in the Holy Spirit, everybody believes. But then when it shows up, like, what are you, nuts? You think you talk to spirits and stuff like that?

Yeah, other countries are different. It's like, yeah, of course, of course you do. So let me just ask you about this country or the West more, you know, the liberal democracies, um, that resemble ours. Every one of them is coming apart. Every one of them has reached kind of the end of a life cycle. They're not serving their people at all. All of this is— this whole project is being—

they've become the fascists that they were supposed to be. I mean, they're canceling elections when they don't turn out the way they want.

Exactly.

Exactly. You know, they're, they're pro— they're doing austerity now in Europe and Germany, and they're ratcheting up for a war with Russia. Jeffrey Sachs just wrote an open letter to, to the, uh, to, to Germany, like, hey, stop this.

This is— oh, I know, I know.

And they'll ignore him. And of course they will.

Yeah. What a good man he is.

But yeah.

Um, yeah, liberal democracy has turned out to be neither liberal nor democratic.

They're illiberal.

They're illiberal and undemocratic, just like they proved during COVID Yes, exactly.

They immediately censorship, shut up, don't ask questions, don't talk against the establishment, and take an experimental medical treatment against your own will, or you can't go to work, you can't travel, you can't go to school. That's, uh, that's Nazi stuff.

Oh, of course.

And again, if it works, you take it. Why do you need me to take it so the medicine works on you? That never made any sense.

It will never make any sense because actually it's not your body or your choice.

Well, then they stop saying— so you stop— you notice that around COVID they stopped saying I'm pro-choice and they literally started saying I'm pro-abortion. I know, I know.

That's what I was like, I'm out. Whatever this is is, is, uh, too dark for me. But okay, so all of this, I think thanks in part to your tireless efforts for the past 6 years, is now pretty obvious to most people who are paying attention that this system is fake. It's not serving its intended beneficiaries. Series, and it's kind of over. So then the question becomes, well, what next and how do we get there? And the two potential paths are violent revolution, which I'm opposed to, or somehow using this broken system to improve or replace the broken system. Yeah.

And what— well, Larry Fink is afraid of a violent— oh, revolution. They're all afraid of it. He, he said that they, they're going to start drone bombing these data owners. He's afraid of that.

Oh, I know. Yeah, yeah. Because they, because they know how hated they are, you know.

And they, they did— and Jeff, Jeff Bezos did this softball interview, if you would see NBC last week or two weeks ago, and he talked about how if I pay more taxes, it's not going to help the nurse in Queens and all that stuff, you know. And he goes, if I do my job right, it's going to help people more than my philanthropy, right? Oh really? If you do your job right? You know what the turnover rate in an Amazon fulfillment center You know what the turnover is? 150%. Yeah, 100 to 150% every year. So that means every 8 months, 100% new workers. And so why do 1/3 of your workers at the richest guy in the world are on government assistance?

Why am I subsidizing your employees?

Exactly right. Same thing you hear about Walmart. This is the country we've devolved into when you have a government by the oligarchs for the oligarchs and the workers get screwed. So that's where we're in. And exactly what I said before, the— Oh, bless you.

Excuse me.

Woo! The only way to do this is if people realize that they have a common humanity with their neighbor. Don't fall for it that your neighbor's the white supremacist Nazi racist that you have to oppose and that they're the enemy. No, they're again suffering under the same conditions you're suffering under. Join with them, oppose those people, the WEF globalists who actually run everything. You know, it's funny, people talk about communism, you don't get choice. People think back to, But capitalism has led us to the same thing. There's 3 companies that own everything. Vanguard, State Street, and BlackRock. That's the real boss. So Trump has a boss. They all have. And I try to tell people that, you know, the Congress is that they're not, when they get, they're not doing the bidding. When they have a session of Congress, people go, "Oh, do you think they have secret meetings where they plan this stuff?" Well, yes, actually they do. It's called Davos. It's called the Bilderbergs. Now we know that's real. That people just think that was crazy. Big time. But I used to say, no, it's just a session of Congress. You think when they get together, they're doing the bidding of students or workers or the elderly?

They're in there doing the bidding of the oligarchs, the donor class, the people who actually run, their bosses, and it ain't you.

That's just a fact. That's no longer— I don't think there's a single word you just uttered that could be quibbled with even. It's all proven now. But because it is proven, that means it can't continue. You under the current terms. So I don't think, given everything you've said, you want violence. But is it inevitable? Like, how do we get out of this?

Well, John F. Kennedy said, those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable, right? Or some version of that. Certainly true. And so we have more guns in this country than people. So in a sense, that's good because the government's supposed to fear the people, not the other way around. Exactly. When you fear your government, that's tyranny. And right now, I think people do fear their government. Yes. Again, I'm not calling I'm not calling for a violent revolution, but I think if workers come together, you have to shut down the machine. And if you can shut down the machine in a meaningful way, if all the truckers stop trucking, if all the railroad workers stop going to work, port workers, that's how you gain control of your— But you see, they gave the port workers, they gave them a nice contract right before Trump got into office. So they see it coming. Coming, right? And so they'd give— they— oh, we don't want them to get upset, we don't want them to. So, or if all the teachers didn't go to work, if all the grocery store workers didn't go to work, you know, I'm— that's the only way.

If you— if anybody else has another idea, let me know, I'll be all for it. But to me, that's the way that history proves that you can have peaceful revolution.

I— yeah, I would just correct you on the no teachers. That we actually did have a time for over a year when the teachers didn't go to work, and they— and the people in charge really enjoyed it because ignorant kids mean more— that's right— viable kids. But I— but critical, like true critical functions, if they stop working, um, maybe will force people to pay attention.

Yeah. Remember who the essential workers are, right? It's not middle management. No, no.

Is it the consultant class?

No, it is not. Oh, it's not? It's not the professional managerial class.

It's not?

It's not?

What about the private equity people?

They— no, no, no, they are not essential. You couldn't—

I don't even know if you could have a tax protest now because the government isn't funded through taxes, right?

They just print the money. Exactly. Did you see that video where they asked, um, I forget the guy's name, but it was Joe Biden's economic advisor, and someone said, hey, if we print our own money, why do we borrow it? And he was like, for 5 minutes, he's like, well, that's good. Oh, we print money. We definitely print money. We definitely borrow money. And he goes, I don't know, it's a good question. He couldn't answer the question. You ever seen that No. Yes.

But I've actually wondered myself.

I wonder it too. If they could just create money, quantitative easing, they just invented it. Of course, they don't give that money to you.

No, they give it to the banks.

And so what people don't realize, people fear socialism because they fear it's gonna take money from the haves and give it to the have-nots. But what our version of capitalism has done, this oligarchy, it's an upward transfer of wealth. That's what happened during COVID Of course. An upward tra— How many billionaires got invented? And it's continuing. It's an upward transfer. Transfer of wealth, uh, to— from the working class to the oligarchs. That's what we're in right now with 3 companies that run everything.

So again, I don't see that as overstatement. Like, I think that's just true what you said. So I don't know, I'm very concerned because I do think the people who are benefiting are so rigid. That's what I have— the main thing I notice, how rigid they are. They can't handle any disagreement whatsoever.

Right.

No. Like, Teddy Roosevelt rolls in and he's like a product of the ruling class. He is the ruling class. He becomes president by default. The president's assassinated, 1901, and he becomes president. He's like, look, this system will collapse unless we give a little bit. And he was the only president in American history able to make that case. And he kind of did adjust it enough that it continued another, well, 125 years.

Yeah.

But I don't see the current rulers as capable of that kind of subtlety or sacrifice or nuance or even just like intelligence. They're too stupid to understand they're screwing themselves by being this rigid. That's my view.

Well, also, FDR saw that there was a revolution of the workers, and he was afraid that he told his ruling class, hey, this is coming here big time. If you don't give people some of your money, if you don't give them some of their money, they're going to take all of your money. Yes. And so he gave people jobs. He created the jobs program. Created Social Security. CCC. Yes, and things like that. But then they also at the same time went on a tear to get rid of the communists, right? Yeah. And because they were a very force for the— So not that anybody's for communism, but you need that kind of counterbalance.

And the economic populists above all.

That's right, exactly.

So Huey Long somehow gets assassinated before the 1936 presidential campaign by his own bodyguards.

Kind of weird. Yeah.

Sorry. Excuse me, but either Roosevelt, they're different, but they have the same impulse, which is this system is out of whack and it's going to get taken down by force unless we adjust it a little bit. And I don't see the current, I don't see Larry Fink is capable of doing that.

Do you? Quite the opposite. It's more capitalism. Always at the end stage, it evolves into fascism, which is where we are. The surveillance state, these data centers, flock cameras. They built $80 billion for ICE to get the illegal immigrants. By the way, they're not. I know. So why are they? So what is that police force for? It's for you.

Of course.

Right? And so when you wake up, and so now they're going to make you a terrorist. You're going to be an anti-technological terrorist, just like they had eco-terrorists, people who've— And so you're going to be the terrorist, and those prisons are for you, They want the illegal immigrants here because they want cheap labor. That's always a joke. They're not getting rid of them. All that stuff where they're shooting people, that's all for show. You are the target, and that's what those prisons are for. And now we got their own private Gestapo called ICE. And what could go wrong? You take 50,000 TGI Friday bouncers and give them guns, masks, and unmarked cars and turn them loose.

Well, because the truth is that illegal illegal immigrants, you know, the guys like hiring at a day rate out of, you know, Home Depot parking lot, you know, there's a lot of drunk driving, but in general not that unruly a group.

Correct. They're right. People looking to work.

You know who's unruly is like you.

You're unruly.

No, I'm serious. You're born here. You have a birthright. You feel totally entitled to demand that your government serve your interest because you own the government. Like, you're a huge problem.

Problem.

But you and people like you—

well, that's why they tapped into my phone using Pegasus, actually. Yeah, that actually happened. So when I spoke at the UN Security Council, I did it via Zoom. I was in Italy at the time, and it was on the anniversary of the Nord Stream pipeline bombing. Yes. And so they, uh, they asked me to speak, Russia, uh, and so I accepted and I gave a speech. And I gave it to them, you know, like, you're all dupes and idiots if you think that this was done by Russia. And the the fact that, you know, Germany would bend their knee and let them wreck their own economy. Now they're paying 2 and 3 times higher for energy and to go along with this, and you're all morons. And I basically use that language. And so on the plane ride home, I had my laptop. I used to, at that time, I used to travel with my laptop. I don't anymore. And it said, uh, MacBook the now controls your iCloud account. And I was like, what? What is this? I don't even know what the heck. So I get off, I call my IT guy, who is a former, uh, in military intelligence, right?

And his whole job is to try to crack into companies' computer system to find vulnerabilities. So I call him and I tell him, I go, hey, did this happen? He goes, oh my God, Jimmy, even I couldn't do that. And I said, what? What? And so I, he, I give him my computer, I give him my phone, and he said, that was Pegasus. And I go, well, who did this? He goes, it wasn't a person. No, it's because this was a state actor. Yeah. And I was like, and so it happened immediately after I testified at the UN Security Council. Crazy. And so that's why I have two phones now, right? So one's the phone. So now they got me, Tucker. By the way, if I ever become a threat, they got me. They either have all my compromising material and my iCloud on my computer, on my phone, or they planted something. So they got me, right? So I gotta, and so if you'll know if I'm arrested or if some big scandal comes out out, it's because I now have become an actual threat.

No, that's so true. I did an interview with Glenn Greenwald last summer here, and he was tough on the foreign policy questions and tough on Netanyahu. Literally the next day.

That's exactly right.

This tape comes out of a super embarrassing Glenn Greenwald sex tape, which I didn't watch, but I just want to say how much I love Glenn. Those aren't connected. By the way, the first person to defend him, the first person to defend him was Charlie Kirk, which is just incredible.

Charlie Kirk, the new Seth Rich. You're not allowed to ask questions about that.

Charlie Kirk is the evangelical, pretty darn anti-gay, and then Glenn Greenwald comes out with a gay sex tape and Charlie Kirk is the first guy to be like, Glenn Greenwald's a good man. Man, I thought that was— ah, makes me emotional thinking about it.

Yeah, I mean, Charlie had started to have an awakening.

Oh, you think?

He had a lot younger than had it. Yeah. And so that's why they had to kill him. And, uh, and when I say they, I mean multiple. There was a conspiracy to kill him. It wasn't some guy, Tyler Robinson, with his grandpa's rifle, which was never fired, which is why they couldn't find that rifle. But you have to swallow so much stuff to believe the story that the establishment is pushing for Charlie Kirk's assassination. You have to think that this— first of all, a .30-06 bullet didn't take his head clean off or leave a drive-through window in the back of his neck. Somehow he had an miracle. Okay, could this— his miracle bullet, remember that? Hey, uh, can, can you give me an explanation of why his head didn't blow off without a miracle? Do you have an actual explanation? No. So, uh, but it goes back to— so this guy gets to the campus, he, he drives 3 hours, suddenly wakes up one day and goes, you know what, I'm going to commit the biggest public assassination in the last 60 years. He drives to the campus, he finds the open stairwell. It's an open— nobody's there.

He, he brings the gun up, but it's too big, so he has to take it apart and put it in his backpack. Still too big for his pack, so he has to put it down his pant legs is what they tell. But then if he did, he couldn't jump, go up the steps because he couldn't bend his knees. So I don't know how he got it up there. Nobody will tell me. So he gets up there and then he changes his clothes. He's up on top of that roof for 10 minutes. That's according to the governor. He was up there for 8 to 10 minutes. Nobody sees him. The cops don't see him. The million-dollar security team doesn't see him. Nobody sees him except people in the crowd did see him, and they don't tell you that. People just like in Butler, Pennsylvania, people in the crowd saw him. Guess who didn't see him? The cops, the local cops, the state cops, the Secret Service. People see him. So And then he— so he puts the gun together, he lines up the shot, puts a scope on it. By the way, if that scope was on it, he couldn't fire that gun because of the safety.

Anyway, so he lines it up, takes the shot, hits it perfect, perfectly, takes the gun apart, leaves the screwdriver there, puts it under a towel, Spider-Man's his way off the top of a building, runs across campus with the gun apparently under a towel. Nobody sees this. He runs into the woods, puts the gun back together again without the screwdriver. He's a regular MacGyver, this guy. And then he hides the gun in the backyard of a house owned by Palantir. And if you think anything else besides that, you're a crazy Jew-hating conspiracy nut. Do you know that they had the gun-sniffing dogs, right? Which they can sniff a gun that was fired a week earlier in the rain, right? They were looking all over. They didn't find it. The FBI shows up a minute later. We got the gun. Did you know that? No. Yeah, you could. Baron Coleman's been doing great work on this and he got the police transmitter, all that stuff. He got that. That's available. And so it wasn't until the FBI showed up— oh well, we got it. The local police couldn't find it, and the dog sniffers couldn't find it.

They can find it, and they couldn't. But then the FBI showed up, but they found it at the exact place. So— and now they wouldn't even release that to the, to the defense team. They're still holding on to it. And then of course, the, the, the, the— then he, then he decides to text his lover instead of waiting for him to get home. It's only a 3-hour drive. He's like, you You know what he said? I wanted to take this. I wanted to take this secret to my grave. First of all, he talks like he's reading a— he's writing a Jane Austen novel. My love. And then he says, uh, I wanted to take this secret to my grave, but fuck it, I'm just gonna— I'm just gonna leave it here on a text message to you so the FBI can find it. And so what was supposed to happen was he was supposed to go out in a blaze of glory. Story. He— because the original text messages that they said he wrote said, I don't want to go to prison, I'm not going to go out, like, I don't want to be dragged through the courts, I'm gonna go.

So he was supposed to get shot just like in Butler Crooks, and he was supposed to get killed. He didn't. He went and turned himself in, which screwed up their plan. And so they had to rewrite, rewrite those text messages. Did you know that there's Text Messages 1 and Text Messages 2.0? So they had to rewrite this. Yeah, that's all. And they said that he, uh, confessed on Discord or on Reddit. And of course now we know for a fact that he was already in custody when they said that he did that. So what guy shows up, turns himself in, pleads the Fifth— I'm not talking to the cops until my lawyer gets here— but then he goes on the internet and, and gives a confession? Okay, so this is, this is obviously a setup, and you're not allowed to ask questions about it. And if you are, you're, you are attacking a grieving widow. And that's, uh, again, when did Jackie O ever say, quit looking in, stop, quit looking into who killed my husband? Never. That's not what happens, and that's not how you grieve, by the way. I remember when my dad died, my mom immediately bought a gold sequin pants outfit, started carrying sparklers around and selling t-shirts, and my friends are like, Jimmy, what's with your mom?

I'm like, she's grieving. So I'll just leave that there. And so, you know, Dan Bongino, um, who famously said, "Don't ever stop talking about the Epstein files." He gets in a position of power to do something about it, and now he changes his tune to say, "Oh, I was there to do my job, which is to keep custody of the evidence." No, you weren't there to keep custody of the evidence. You were there to put in custody for the people who are in that evidence, you fucking phony. Anyway, I get upset.

You have every reason.

So we're being lied to on a massive scale. The one guy who was credited with stopping the Iran War the first time, they had to get him out of there. And he had realized that he'd woken up and his organization is a Zionist operation as it was from the beginning. And he woke up to that. He was living in a Truman Show and he orders an investigation, a DOJ-style investigation into the accounting. 'Cause there's all, if you look into it, Wolves of Wall Street, Finance is a YouTube channel who's really explored all this about all the shady financial stuff that was happening inside TPUSA. So they all had motive to cover that, to not only be a part of it but to cover it up. And, uh, and, and, and so he orders that. He turns down their money. He turn— they, they all lied that he said they're going to kill me. The— they, they— Candace Owens proves that the text messages were there, that— and by the way, why does the FBI not have control of his phone? Why would they give it to his— this— none of this— all of it— none of it makes sense.

So this is all a big psyop. It's a Zionist organization. He had realized that. He had realized what Zionism was. He realized that Israel was not in our best interest, that they're not our greatest ally, and they had to get— So they tried everything. They tried— And some reports said they were offering a billion dollars to his organization and he turned it down. And if you can turn that down, there's only one thing left to do, and that's to kill you. And it's sad. And you're just like Seth Rich, you're not allowed to ask questions. And when you're not allowed to ask, hey, if you— if Candace Owens is crazy nuts, then keep— let her talk. Let's give her enough rope to hang herself. Keep it going. Just like Brian Harpo did on that, uh, CIA Guys podcast. He gave him enough rope to hang himself, and he hung himself several times on that. What a used car salesman that Brian Harpo is. I spent thousands of dollars on— they didn't have drone coverage. He pretends they didn't have drone coverage. Well, Frank Turek says they were watching the drone coverage on their own phones as they pulled up to the event.

So they're lying back and forth all over the place. They didn't have security watching the roof? They don't have security watching the roof? Well, the local police were supposed to take care of that. Okay, get that. Okay. So it's a setup. It's a lie. And just like Seth Rich and Charlie said, just like we learned during COVID keep asking questions because it's the only thing that keeps us free. And now they've completely flipped his message.

Stop.

Just stop. Stop asking questions. That was his whole MO. That was his whole motive. That was the reason for his race on Detra, was ask questions. Exactly. And now you're not supposed to. And I tell people, you see these social media influencers out there telling you that, uh, Candace is evil or demonic and stop, it happened exactly the way Kash Patel said it did. If anybody's telling you that, they are corrupted, on the take, and they're your enemy and do not listen to them, because those people are not there to help you or to help bring you information. They're there to propagandize you and keep you shut up and compliant.

The great Jimmy Dore. Wow, you just, you just wound me up. Okay, I'm gonna need to walk around.

Thank you. Okay, it's great to see you as always. God bless you. You too.