Transcript of #311 Ben Owen & Ryan Dalton - Arrested on Epstein's Island New

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Ben Owen, Sean Ryan, welcome back, man.

Thanks for having me, dude.

What's 777?

So 777 is the address of our— what is going to be our treatment center. 777 South Main Street, Memphis, Tennessee. Oh shit, perfect number, isn't it?

It is, man.

I just love it.

I love it. That's awesome.

A direct result of our last episode.

That's all. Is that the school? The—

no, so it, it actually was opened up as a brewery. —right after World War II, and then it was a bunch of recording studios. Like, some pretty big names have recorded there. I mean, it's in Memphis. And the couple that owns it had a son die from a fentanyl overdose. A dear friend of theirs who happens to be a cop in Memphis saw our episode, came out, started volunteering. We got to know him really well. He told the couple about us. We got to know them really well, and they're like, "Hey, we got this building that you need." And so now we have it. Congratulations. Thank you.

So you haven't heard from me in what, about a year? And then all of a sudden I get a text of you on what looks like a little jon boat that says you got arrested for trespassing on Epstein Island.

That's right. What the fuck?

What? So what?

What? Oh gracious.

Give me a brief summary and then I'll intro you.

Ah, so a brief summary. All right, well, uh, as brief as I can make it, you have a lot of really cool people that watch your show, uh, and after our episode, a lot of those really cool people, most of them in law enforcement, started reaching out to me. Um, we can get into the details of what all has transpired since then, but one of the results of that episode was that, uh, this dude Ryan Dalton, former State Department Diplomatic Security Special Agent, who is behind the website EpsteinIsntDead.org, was made aware of who we are and what we do. He had this idea to go down to Epstein Island to get eyeballs on it again, to raise awareness, um, and he hit me up. Actually, he hit me up before he had the idea of Epstein Island, just wanting to know if we would be willing to help him, uh, run the open-source intelligence investigations tied to his website. And, you know, for context, I'm not convinced Epstein's alive. I'm definitely convinced he didn't leave that jail cell a dead man. I don't know that he's still alive. I am convinced his network is very much alive and operating, though.

You know, something that large doesn't just die because they say he died, you know, and one person got arrested. Like, that's, that's how this works. Yeah.

So is it weird that one person got the biggest, biggest sex trafficking— elite sex trafficking ring in the world with, with 2 arrests.

One in— yeah, yeah. Ghislaine Maxwell. Well, now 3. I got arrested. So not for sex trafficking.

Now let's be—

hold on, let me correct.

Yeah, this would be clear on that. I got arrested for trespassing on Pedophile Island, which is weird because nobody's been arrested for being a pedophile on that island.

Well, you know, they're all being protected by the president of the United States. Yeah. Or somebody. Somebody or, or multiple or somebody that's controlling him.

Yeah, there's definitely some, some weird stuff going on, man. So yeah, I told Ryan, like, I'm always down for crazy ideas. You know this about me. I wanted to go down there. I wanted to plant a We Fight Monsters flag on that beach and, you know, kind of symbolically reclaim that property for good purposes. I was under the impression that a billionaire, Stephen Dechov, had bought the island. It was going to turn it into a resort. Beaches can't be private in the Virgin Islands. So going on that beach was an allowable thing to do. And I thought we would go down there, plant our flags, call it a day. We got a little excited on the way in. We saw his temple, which everybody's seen Epstein's temple on that island. We saw that and, and kind of forgot that you're not allowed to go beyond the beach.

And so, man, we'll get into the rest in a minute. Let me give you an intro just for anybody that didn't see the first episode. Ben Owen, you are the CEO of Once American, a Memphis-based AI and digital forensics company whose Intel Foundry platform supports law enforcement and federal partners in OSINT targeting and counter-trafficking operations. Alongside your wife Jessica, you co-founded We Fight Monsters, a nonprofit working at the intersection of anti-trafficking efforts, community violence intervention, reentry support, and survivor housing. Together, you've raised biological, foster, and adopted children, including your Afghan daughter, Erezo, who we spoke about in your last interview. You also lead Owen Army, Flanders Fields, and Black Rifle Co., and have been involved in disaster response efforts across the country, from the Uvalde shooting— school shooting— to the Lahaina— I'm still butchering that— fires to Hurricane Helene and beyond. Most recently, you made headlines after traveling to Little Saint James, a part of the Epstein Isn't Dead campaign to investigate the Epstein criminal network. Just for, uh, context here, Little Saint James is Epstein Island. That is Epstein Island. During your escape from the island, you say you were hogtied, unlawfully restrained, kidnapped, and assaulted by Epstein's property manager before later being charged with misdemeanor trespassing.

You are currently out on bond. Welcome back to the show. Well, how much was your bond?

$500. $500, that's it? That's it. That's it. Which, it's kind of weird that you should have called me.

I could have posted that one. Oh, I was prepared.

I took my money with me. It would have been an honor. You got about what we do, I've always got bond money in my backpack. I never expected to be for me. Old habits. Yeah. Yeah, right. It— my bond was 10 times the maximum fine for trespassing. Like, so they were definitely trying to make an example out of me, I think. Yeah, it's a $50 fine for trespassing. Now they can give you up to 30 days in prison for it. I did not know that, but hopefully that didn't happen. Yeah, I'm out on bond.

I mean, they didn't try to cut you up in pieces and throw you down the trash chute into the ocean or do any ritualist Satanic blood rituals, or—

I was waiting. Yeah, like, I didn't expect to get kidnapped. Uh, you know, once I realized we had progressed beyond the beach, I knew that trespassing— I was trespassing. I knew I was. Um, and so I expected that.

Uh, let's, let's back up, right? Let's go. Let's— yeah, before we get into all these different rabbit holes. So you got approached. Where did you guys— where did you sail from? Where did you go from?

We met, uh, on St. Thomas. Um, we, we got a ferry from St. Thomas over to St. John and chartered a boat.

Just for context, for anybody that doesn't know where this island is, it's just a little due east of Puerto Rico.

Right, right, right. Yeah, it's closer to Venezuela than it is the mainland United States. Okay. Yeah, down in the Caribbean. I mean, it's paradise. It's like heaven on earth down there. Just absolutely beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. So we chartered a boat from Saint John and took that to Little Saint— What kind of boat? I don't even know. Like a fishing boat, you know? Nothing, nothing fancy. How far was the— 20 minutes. That's it. Yeah, it's close, dude. It's close. And that's the thing, like, I did not expect that island to be as surrounded by people and other islands as it was. Like, it's not some secretive enclave that you can't see, you know. There's like helicopter tours going on all the time, you know. But it's, it's, it's right out there in the open. Wow. Yeah. Did not expect that. So I guess you want me to walk you through that day? Yeah.

Yeah.

How many of you guys were there? So there were 5 of us in total. 3 of us went on the island. The other 2 took care of the boat. Okay. Yeah. Had to have somebody.

I didn't know if you, like, beached it or—

No. So that was the thing. That was like our plan was to, you know, beach the boat and, like, run up and— but there were too many rocks.

I'm a little upset I didn't get an invite. I mean, I'm sorry. I'm a fucking frog. I know.

Run this shit a time or two. You know, hindsight's 20/20. Next time it's going to be me. There might be a next time, not on that island, but maybe somewhere else, right?

We'll go find another.

We'll do it the right way. It'll be me, you, Scott Mann, Travis Peterson. We'll have the right team together next time. Uh, this team— this time it was like the, uh, the Memphis A-Team, right? Um, couldn't get the boat up to the beach because of the rocks. So we realized we're going to have to swim, which we knew was a possibility. I'm not a great swimmer. I'm not going to drown, but I'm also not a great swimmer. So we had to swim. I don't know, it was like 50, 100 yards. And our plan was still to plant the flag. So I'm swimming with this 20-foot collapsible flagpole and boots. And I'm already not a great swimmer. So by the time I get to where I can even stand up, I'm done. Like, it's over with. It, like, I've still got 20 yards from where I was able to stand up to walk across this rocky reef to shore. And like, I'm just— my legs are not working. They're rubber at this point. Definitely need to do more cardio. I hate cardio, but the need was made very apparent. If I'm going to go out there and do Hoodrat shit, I need to be a little bit better shape on the cardio side.

So we finally get to the beach and like, I can barely stand up. We got a 400-yard near-vertical climb to get to this temple, right? Holy shit. For people unaware of Epstein's temple, just Google it. Like, it's this little cube up on a cliff. And while Epstein had it, it was like painted to look like a Muslim temple. It's like, you know, blue and there's gold. It's got stripes. It looks like— white. Yeah, yeah. It looks like something you would see. Israel colors. Yeah. Yes, yes. That's actually a very good point. Mm-hmm. And currently it's, you know, it's all painted gray and boarded up. And I want to be very explicit about this. We had no intentions of trying to go inside the temple like we were not there to enter any dwellings or like we just wanted to get pictures with our flags in front of the temple and stick a 20-foot flagpole on the ground, which we never ended up doing because we got caught.

Like, did you see any activity on the on the way up.

Yeah, yeah. You could see them running around and we thought they were golf carts. They were ATVs. So you definitely see people on the island. And at this point, I'm assuming, you know, it's like groundskeepers. This Dehkoff billionaire guy has turned it into a resort. So those must be his employees. Later find out that wasn't the case. So we made it to the temple. We got our pictures, you know, with our flags up there.

Oh, Sean, I brought you the flag.

Get the fuck out of here.

I brought you the flag. Yeah.

Oh, so actually had a bit of a flag you brought.

This is the flag that went to Epstein Island and was in front of his temple. And Laura's got the pictures, so I don't know. Holy shit. Yeah, dude. Yeah. So that's for you. I accidentally left it in Georgia. Oh, you know what? I need to get a picture of you holding that. I accidentally left it in Georgia. And so my business partner had to go to my house yesterday and overnight that to y'all's P.O. box at the UPS store. Thank God it made it. Thank you. That was a panic attack. So we get up there, you know, we take our pictures of the flags and like, you can see the ATVs coming and they're coming deep. There's like 4 of them. And like, you can just tell by the way they're driving, they're pissed. And so I was still unable to breathe or really stand. So I'm thinking in my head like, yep, I'm about to get a misdemeanor charge, you know.

How long did it take you to get up there?

15 minutes, maybe, maybe 10. I don't know. And, you know, the two guys that were on the island with me, they don't have criminal backgrounds. They're former feds, you know. And so if anybody's taking a charge today, it's going to be me. I don't know how many misdemeanor convictions I have, but adding one more to the mix isn't the end of the world for me. So they were able to get back to the boat. I was definitely not. I ended up collapsing like on this hillside full of cactuses. Bro, I was pulling cactus thorns out of my leg for 2 weeks. Like it was so bad. So sorry. I sit down. I mean, I didn't have any choice. Like, I physically could not continue. So I sit down and basically I'm the bait at this point. All of the security guys are coming to me while the other two guys make their way back to the boat. And like, they're helping. They're being nice. I can tell by the accents and I could hear them talking to each other. They're Haitian. You know, I heard them speaking Creole. We worked some some Haitian refugee stuff a few years back.

So I don't speak Creole, but I definitely recognize it. And so when I realized they were Haitian, I was like, I could probably, you know, make buddies with them, just tell them some stories about the work we did in the refugee camps and stuff. But I couldn't breathe enough to talk at this point other than asking for water. So I hadn't started that process of trying to make friends out of them, but that's where my head was. So they finally get me up, and after multiple times have fallen back into cactuses trying to get up this hill. I finally make it to the trail up top. They told me, you know, we'll get you some water. And I'm thinking, okay, you know, here comes my misdemeanor charge. It's— everything's fine.

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When we get to the pathway, another ATV pulls up and it's this black female driving it, and there's water. And I'm like, thank fucking God, dude, because I thought I was about to die. And so I grab water, she knocks it out of my hand. I mean, like, violently knocks it out of my hand. And then she grabs the rest of the waters in the ATV and throws them down a hill. And I was like, I might have a problem now. It became quickly apparent that, that she's calling the shots and everything those guys had just told me is bullshit. So I go to sit down in her ATV, which she told me to sit down, and then she tells the Haitian dude behind me to tie me up. I'm like, well, this is odd. That's not normally what happens when you're, you know, trespassing. And they have guns now. They didn't have guns, but like, I was so gassed, there was no resisting even if I wanted to, man. And plus, there's, you know, 6, 7 of them, one of me. So even if I had energy to resist or flee, I don't think I'd have done it at this point.

I also had no idea what was about to happen. You know, if I had known what was coming, I would have found the energy to somehow resist or run. So the Haitian that tied me up was the one I had started trying to make buddies with. He's sitting behind me and he's, you know, through the little gap in the seat, just puts a rope kind of loosely around my hands. Um, and so I'm like thinking, you know, it's at the end of the world, it's no big deal, whatever. I'm gonna, you know, wait on the police to come, no big deal. And so she drives us down to the dock And I know now who she is. Her name's Emery Polian, and I'll explain more about who she is here in a bit. Um, they drive us down to the dock. Um, once I'm at the dock, this Hispanic dude comes up and tightens the ropes on my wrist behind me, and then they tie me to a pole on the dock, and then he ties my feet. And I'm like, this is getting weirder and weirder. Right. But in my mind, I'm sitting on this dock waiting on the police because the police have to come to the dock to get me.

Right. And I'm expecting, you know, police to come give me a misdemeanor citation. I'm trying to figure out like, well, how am I going to get back to Saint John? I don't have a phone. I've got nothing. I have absolutely nothing on me. I've got boots and my Wi-Fi Monsters bathing suit. I didn't have a shirt and it was hot. Like I was, I was roasting. Emory gets a phone call about this time. I've probably been— who? Emory, the Black female that was driving the ATV. So I've probably been tied up for about an hour, maybe 30 minutes at this point. I don't know. Time was elusive. I was definitely, you know, heat exhaustion was setting in. I was dehydrated as hell. I inhaled a bunch of seawater on the way up. And then obviously that huge physical exertion trying to get up there and then get away. She gets a phone call and she answers on speaker and calls the woman on the other end, Mom. And I'm like, that is very strange. What is going on? And Mom tells her to duct tape me and put me in the dungeon. And I'm thinking in my head that what an awful choice of words for somebody who works for a billionaire trying to rebrand this island from what it used to be.

Why would you call it the dungeon? It is a strange thing to say.

And wow, that's strange.

Her mom, right? Her mom. And I'm thinking in my head like, this lady's just trying to scare me. And, you know, they're taking pictures of me the whole time. And I was not about to let them know I was freaked out. So I would smile at them like, you know, I'm trying to irritate them a little bit, but also let them know like I'm I'm good. You might remember from the last time we talked that this was not the first time I've been kidnapped. And so I'm trying to stay as calm as I possibly can, or actually was pretty damn calm at this point. You know, no big deal. I'm getting a misdemeanor citation. I just got to sit through this bullshit while these people harass me until the police get there.

So what can you see your, your buddies?

No, they were long gone. They were long. They had to be. Okay. Because of their backgrounds and the lines of work they're in today, a trespassing charge is going to harm their livelihood. I would suspect. You know my background. You think I care about another misdemeanor? I really, you know, thank God I'm not a felon. And I knew I wasn't facing any felony here, but a misdemeanor, who cares, man? That's what I'm thinking at the time. I didn't realize in that moment that the Virgin Islands can actually give you 30 days in prison for misdemeanor trespassing. I thought I thought was the citation. I was wrong. Uh, so hindsight being 20/20, I probably should have researched that a little bit more. Um, so they— she gets off the phone with mom, and, uh, the Haitians and the Hispanic dude go to look for duct tape, which they can't find. But they did find flex cuffs. It's like the third red flag. Why the fuck do you have flex cuffs on Epstein Island? So they put me, you know, they zip tie me. I've got flex cuffs, half-inch zip ties, and rope at this point. And they tell me to go to the ATV.

Well, this dock's like, I don't know, 50 yards long, and I'm hobbled. And they make me start hopping down this dock to the very last ATV in line to transport me somewhere else. You remember monkey fuckers that you used to have to do in PT?

No.

So maybe let me demonstrate the monkey fucker. You get hold of your ankles like this. Oh, shit. That's basically what I'm doing for 50 yards down the stock. I've got like, I don't know, a foot between me and this row of ATVs of dock to hop on and the ocean on the other side of me. And I'm positive I'm going to fall in. And she starts— Emery starts joking, you know, maybe they should just kick me in since I'm so thirsty. And I'm like, these motherfuckers about to try to make me drown. So I'm still hardly able to breathe, like terribly dehydrated. Like all I can think about is wanting water and I'm having to do monkey fuckers down this whole ass dock to get to their ATV so they can take me to wherever they're going to take me. To the dungeon is what they called it. And again, I'm still thinking they're just trying to scare me. Well, we get to the dungeon. And I quickly realized, like, they weren't trying to scare me. They legit have a dungeon. I think we gave Laura a sky view, satellite view from Google Earth of this thing.

It's like this door in the middle of a hillside. The roof is grass, you know, and inside it's like this 10 by 20 dungeon. Like, there's nothing. It's just a cement room. The optics. I'm thinking at this point in time— in that room, right? Yeah. But see, I had no idea at this point who these people were. So none of this is clicking in my head, really. Like, I know I'm on Epstein Island. I know the history, but I wasn't nearly as freaked out as I should have been, right? They throw me in this room. It's like 120 degrees in there. And they come add duct tape now to my ankles, my knees. Mom calls again and they keep answering this bitch on speakerphone. Just— I'm positive they're trying to like, psyop me and terrify me even more. And she tells them to make sure I'm in the corner of that room so that the breeze from the doorway cannot reach me. And I'm dreading that happening because the breeze felt like the only thing that was keeping me conscious. She tells them to continue denying me water. I hear her say over the phone, if it was up to me, I would just shoot every one of these motherfuckers.

The Haitians keep referring to the woman on the other end of the phone as the owner and the owner of the owner. Emery leaves. I'm trying to talk to the Haitians like, please get me some water, please give me some water. And they're like, look, if you think this one's bad, just wait till the owner gets here. So repeated references made to the owner. So I'm, I'm still thinking like the owner is Steve Dekoff and maybe they're talking about his wife or something. I don't know how many hours have passed at this point, but it was a bunch. Finally, the owner shows up, who I later figured out was Mom, who was on the phone with Emery every time she comes. Like, Emery had come back and given me water. Like, I had been trying to work, you know, my magic on human connection with her and the Haitians this whole time. And I think it finally started paying off a little bit. Because she did come back with ice-cold water. Um, and, you know, she poured it in my mouth for me, and it was like a different persona than the Emory that had me down there, you know, near the beach.

Like, you could tell she was angry as shit in the beginning. Um, so Mom gets there. Now I know who Mom is today. I did not at that moment. Her name is Ann Rodriguez. And she is Emery Pollion's mother. She gets there furious, just— and I don't understand why she's so mad. Like, all I was just going to take a picture and leave the island. We weren't even trying to interact with people. They were hundreds of yards away until they saw us and came to us. Like, I know I was trespassing. I'm aware of that. But the level of vitriol coming from this woman towards me made zero sense to me. At the time.

Um, is she the legit owner?

I don't know. I don't know. We'll get there. Uh, well, no, let's get there now. I'll tell you who she is. Uh, she was Jeffrey Epstein's property manager. In other words, how do you know that? The files. The Epstein files. Oh, shit. If you search her name in there, it returns 23,000 results. And 23,000 results, um, you know, a lot of emails with her calling Jeffrey boss man, emails of her handling flights and lodging for females, like she was managing logistics and maintenance, security.

To say that the whole fucking thing and she's just running around out there, right?

To say it a different way, not detained, but nothing. Fuck. And apparently kidnapping people. So the Haitians— she blindfolds me. And at this point I do get— I start getting a little scared. You know, I may have watched an ISIS beheading video or two too many because when the blindfold went on, I was like, fuck, I'm about to get executed, you know? And more time passes. At this point, panic sets in because I'm like, I'm convinced they're going to kill me. I still don't know what I just told you. I don't know that she's Epstein's property manager.. I don't know that Emery Polyon— I don't know any of that at this point. I just know I'm tied up in a room that this lady calls the dungeon. Side note, the woman that ran the island for Jeffrey Epstein called that the dungeon. That, that's scary. That's scary. So I don't know how much time has passed. Several hours I've been in this dungeon. I hear the door open. I hear a camera start clicking. And now I'm convinced here comes the beheading. You know, they're going to record it in 4K and hand goes in the back of my head, rips my blindfold off.

I'm like, yep, here it comes. They're going to take my blindfold off and just cut off my head, you know? And instead of that happening, I'm looking at a Virgin Islands Police Department detective with an evidence camera and I just got the biggest shit-eating grin on my face. I was like, I am so glad to see you. Like, knowing I'm probably about to get arrested. But God, I was glad because whatever has been happening is finally over. So I thought, I hear a lot of commotion outside the dungeon. The cop with the evidence camera has stepped out asking somebody, can they come cut me loose? And this dude charges into the dungeon, young black male, and just runs up to me and smacks me on the side of my head, closed fist. I'm lost. The police are here. This dude's hitting— like, what is going on? So I got all these thoughts going through my head like, oh my God, are the cops in on it? Like, what is actually going on right now? Um, instead the cops grabbed him, dragged him out. All right, uh, I hear Emery screaming outside, it wasn't him, it wasn't him.

I thought she's talking about the dude that just hit me. She's actually talking about me because what I forgot was that I heard her screaming over the radio earlier, uh, that somebody had pushed her down on the beach. Now I didn't see that because I was detained by the Haitians, uh, and, and we've actually got the receipts. I don't, I don't think anybody pushed her down. But Paul, who was apparently her boyfriend, thought I was the one who pushed her. She's pregnant. I'd hit me too. Like, I'd hit me in front of the cops even, you know. So when they finally cut me loose, I go out there, I see Paul in handcuffs on the back of one of these ATVs, and I straight up tell the cops, like, if that kid's in handcuffs right now because of what just happened to me, please take him out. Like, I don't want to press charges. I'm good. You know, I'm fine. Everything's cool. If he thought I pushed his pregnant girlfriend down while trespassing on her island, I'd have whatever, I'd have beat the hell out of me, you know? So I'm trying to get him out of trouble.

And that's when it dawned on me that the cops are a lot more concerned about this than I was. They told me, we're not taking anybody out of handcuffs until we figure out who hogtied you. And then the gravity of what is going on starts setting in. There's 15 or 20 cops out here and they're much more interested in why I'm hogtied than they are in the fact I was trespassing. I hear the Haitians and Anne Rodriguez talking and reference was made to, you know, this is the 7th time this has happened. And I'm like, what the fuck? This is the 7th time, so you're like, what's actually going on here? So, uh, the cops take us down to their fast boats. They've got 2 of them there. Um, I'm still not in handcuffs. Uh, Paul still is. And they take us all back to St. Thomas. Um, they let us get out of the boats, uh, and One of the detectives that had been asking me all these questions— I didn't want to give a statement. I just wanted it to be over with, you know? And I didn't think I was getting arrested.

I was just going to let bygones be bygones. Like, you know, whatever. You hogtied me, you kidnapped me, but I trespassed. We'll call it even. That kind of thing. I don't stress too much about things. Well, one of the detectives comes over and tells me that, that Ann is insisting on doing a citizen's arrest. I'm like, what does that mean? Uh, like, technically, for a citizen's arrest, she needed to tell me she's placing me under citizen's arrest back on the island. Like, this is like way too late at this point, but the cops are kind of— their hands, they feel like their hands are tied. Um, they're gonna have to go ahead and charge me. So they take me back to the station, and, you know, I'm expecting that because the citizen's arrest wasn't done the correct and legal way, that they'll probably end up just cutting me loose. When we got back to the GBI, the GIB, General Investigations Bureau on St. Thomas, and I realized like they're not letting it go, I am going to have to go to jail. I was like, well, in that case, I will give a statement. I'll tell you everything.

You know, so they, you know, got a recorded video statement from me and I told them basically everything I just told you, only probably better because it was much fresher on my mind. Right. And after that, they're like, well, do you have anybody you can call who can come post your bond? I was like, yeah, I was actually, you know, I was prepared for this. I had bond money in the boat. Let me call Ryan. And so I called Ryan and he comes down there and when he gets there, he— I had completely forgotten about this. They want him to give a statement and he drops the bomb on them. Oh, by the way, I'm a lawyer. And so I was like, oh yeah, he's a lawyer. So the cops go ahead and let him know because they're assuming he's my lawyer. He's not. I mean, I don't even think he's licensed to practice. He's just been to law school and passed the bar or whatever. They tell him that they're going to charge the people on the island with kidnapping. I can't remember if it was false imprisonment or unlawful detention, something along those lines, and assault.

For what happened to me. Now, those charges haven't dropped yet. I'm assuming they have to go to a grand jury for that to happen. They, they've— oh, Paul, the kid that hit me, walks past, you know, and apologizes to me. And I'm still trying to get him out of trouble. Like, I don't feel like he should have been mixed up. Being honest, the way he acted, the way the Haitians acted, like, I think they're all scared of Anne too. I really do. They booked me into jail. Cops, cool as crap the whole time. I love Virgin Islands Police Department. Like, I didn't have a shirt on. The SVU sergeant gave me her Punisher t-shirt. Like, everybody was being cool as crap. They booked me into jail with my cell phone, like, to book me right back out, you know, post bond. And I ran into Paul and Elise. We fist bumped. Like, everything seems cool, you know. And we get back to the Airbnb. I recorded a video while it was all fresh in my mind, which I— Laura's got that. And they tell me I got to be in court Monday, which was a little stressful because my flight home was Monday.

And at this point, I wanted nothing more than to just go back home. And so Monday rolls around and We go to court, uh, me and Ryan. He's not been arrested, so he's just there with me, uh, and we're— we go in for my— they, they do it a little different down there. Like in Memphis, if you get arrested, your first court hearing is your arraignment, right? Down there, they do a probable cause hearing first. So it's my probable cause hearing, and, uh, I get to hear the probable cause statement that the police had put together read out loud in court. And that's when I first learned Paul's name, Emory's name, Anne's name. Um, but it's also where I learned that VIPD responded to that island not for trespassing. Somebody called them and reported a kidnapping. Me. So I don't know who did that. Um, We've, we've asked for the 911 calls, but my gut tells me it was one of those Haitians, dude. I think somebody on that island was scared of what was about to happen because nobody on my boat had a clue I'd been kidnapped at all. They were clueless. They thought I was being detained for trespassing.

We decided to stick around in court because we heard Anne Rodriguez's name in my probable cause statement, and we noticed Anne Rodriguez has court this morning and she's in custody. That's strange because I know she hasn't been indicted on kidnapping me yet. What's going on? So we sit through that appearance too. And as it turns out, a month prior, or maybe a little more than a month, I think it was like on March 1st, she kidnapped a Spaniard at gunpoint. What? For running a drone on the island. Yeah. Kidnapped and made him strip butt-ass naked and hogtied him too. The Spaniard's brother was able to escape on boat, got the police. The police came back and found the dude hogtied, butt naked in the boat. And so that's what she was in custody for, was kidnapping this dude at gunpoint. Now, it turned out to be a fake gun, but that doesn't matter. You can't, you know, use a BB gun to kidnap somebody. So there's obviously a pattern of this. And so now the pieces start kind of coming together. You know, I heard the Haitians say this has happened 7 times. Well, now I know of 2 times.

7 times, Spaniard and me. What happened to the other 5 guys? Or were they just, you know, running their mouth? Maybe it didn't happen 7 times. Maybe it's only happened twice. But clearly there's a pattern of this behavior. Mm-hmm. You know, hindsight, I don't know that she intended for me to leave that island. Like, I don't know what the actual plan was, but The fact that the woman who ran that island for Jeffrey Epstein is not only running it today, she lives on it in this gigantic mansion, I assume, because that's the only residence I'm aware of on the island. The guys on the island that work there refer to her as the owner. She's kidnapping people and throwing them in a room she calls the dungeon. Like, what the fuck is going on? And why, with the release of all these files and all the public outcry over Epstein, why am I the only guy that's been arrested for being on that island? You know why. Do I? Yeah. It's fucked up, Sean. I more and more feel like we live in an occupied country. What just happened with Massey is kind of a scary example of that.

I mean, Joe Kent's resignation, AIPAC's literally bragging about buying that election. 100%. We're an occupied country. Yeah.

There's no other way to look at it. There's no other way to look at it.

And, and that begs the question, like, our president is saying he has a 99% approval rating in Israel. What's he got? Like, I think it's down to like 30% or something. I mean, I gotta check, but we check it on the break.

It scares the hell out of me, you know. It scares the hell out of me. Um, oh, then they—

what scares you about it?

What scares me about it? I have 9 kids that have to grow up in this nation. I have helped— I don't even know how many people at this point escape a life of addiction so that they're able to become functional members of society again. And what is, what is the society that they're coming back into? Um, it scares me. I'm a grandparent.

Scares me too.

I, I love, I love the America I grew up believing in, and I don't recognize it anymore.

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At this point, I don't even know. And it honestly hurts me to say that. It hurts to think about it, you know. I have believed in American exceptionalism my entire life, um, and, and more and more I've started realizing that I don't think either political party believes in that. I think they view— yeah, I think they view— I think they view America as a means to an end, personal gain, both of them. You know, if you watch me ever on social media, I loathe politics. I believe in maximum rights for maximum people all the time, which I believe would just make me a libertarian. But like, I'm out there, you know, trying to save lives in some of the most impoverished communities in America. I'm trying to move the needle for marginalized communities. I've fought genocide overseas. You know, it's— we've done all these things in suffering. And what I'm seeing is that our own government seems to be fomenting suffering right here at home. Mm-hmm. Well, and abroad, obviously. But I'm just lost, man. I'm lost. And the more I do these weird things that I keep getting myself pulled into, the more I start seeing that something's fucked up.

There's something that's not making sense. There's a boogeyman out there somewhere, and I can't figure out who it is or where it is.

I know the feeling.

You know, the first time I came on here, I thought the State Department was the boogeyman because they were in our way on everything in Afghanistan. And then I started thinking maybe the FBI is the boogeyman because this and that, and they're getting in the way on everything we're trying to do combating human, you know.

And now that was this— they're all just extensions, 100%.

Well, I just went to Epstein Island trying to bring light to that with a dude from the State Department and a couple people from the FBI. Like, they're, they're not the boogeyman either. Something is— there's something pulling the strings, and I think we both know what it is. And Israel Yeah, yeah.

This is real. I'm not— I don't even fucking care anymore, dude.

Yeah, I don't believe in right. You've got security. I don't. Right. I know, but I mean, if somebody wants you dead. Yeah. You know what? You're exactly right. It doesn't matter how much security you got. It's Israel. It's Israel. Our nation has been sold. We are an occupied nation. And I honestly feel like Epstein is tied into that in a million different ways. And, you know, I don't know what I've stepped in. I don't. I'm a little bit scared. I don't regret it. I've gone up against our government before in the Afghan evac. You know, I've been in front of Congress and like straight up told them, you guys fucked up. You got a crackhead responsible for safe housing America's first interpreter in the global war on terror. If that doesn't show you that you fucked up and screwed up your job, I don't know what does. I've got no problem going up against our own government, but I don't know what I'm going up against this time. I really don't. I don't know if there's a billionaire on the other side of this. They've sued me now. Sued you? Yeah, they sued me civilly.

The entity that owns the island, LSJVI LLC. And if that is actually owned by a billionaire, that's a terrifying thing that I'm being sued by a billionaire. The way the lawsuit reads, though, makes me wonder, is there actually a billionaire involved in this at all, or is this all in Rodriguez? They accused me— 30 seconds of Googling me or just asking their favorite AI could have prevented the absurdity that is their affidavit against me. They called me a very violent man. There's not one shred of evidence to back that up. In fact, I've got a global track record, a very public global track record of combating violence and and genocide and human rights abuses. And, um, they said that my lengthy, uh, drug use— which, I mean, that's accurate, I've been very open about that— uh, means that I'm basically insane and subject to conspiracy theories. Bro, I am not into conspiracy theories, not even a little bit. Um, the, the lawsuit they filed against me was basically slanderous, inflammatory, you know, uh but it still scares me. Like, is, is there a billionaire behind this? Is Israel behind this? What am I actually getting myself into at this point?

And I'm not afraid of taking on big issues. You know, your team saw that in Memphis. I will step in the middle of the biggest pile of shit on earth if I think I can make a difference. And so far I've not found anything where I can't make a difference. And I think that's something intrinsic to all of us. We can all make differences in really big things, but whatever I'm in the middle of now, am I actually gonna be able to make a difference? And, and what is the risk level I have just exposed myself to trying to do that? I saw an article today before we came here. I think it was the New York Post. A lady in somewhere in the Southwest, a journalist, ran a piece, uh, about Epstein's CIA ties. She just announced that she's leaving the country because she's been subject to D.W. attacks. Now, is she crazy or is that real? I mean, it seemed like a credible outlet running the story, but I mean, that terrifies the shit out of me. She's talking about Epstein and this has happened. And there's this other lady on TikTok who covered my arrest who said she's been having people like show up at her house at weird hours, kicking the door.

And I've not had anything weird like that happen yet. But is it coming? What have I opened my kids up to? At this point by doing— and all I was trying to do was shed light on that damn island, and we have uncovered a hell of a lot more than we ever intended to, ever.

You can't get to the bottom of the entity that—

who owns it? So I have not been able to. It is a Delaware LLC. Um, public, uh, articles, you know, say that Stephen Dechov bought both islands, Greater St. James and Little St. James, in one transaction. Pulling the property tax records— and we've done all this since my arrest— pulling property tax records, you can see that Black Diamond LLC, which is definitely DECOFF, that's known, is paying the property taxes on Great St. James. There's this other entity that is paying the property to LSJVI, Little St. James Virgin Islands LLC, that is paying the taxes in Little St. James. Why? If you own both of them, why not have your entity pay the taxes on both of them? Why not have your entity own both of them? Why have this mysterious shell company on this other one when you publicly said you bought it? Um, now I'm not saying that that in and of itself is anything nefarious. There could be a million financial— maybe that's why he's a billionaire and I'm not, you know, he knows what to do with money. But it begs the question, like, what is actually going on? What is actually going on here?

Because I don't see that island getting turned into a resort. And look, I'll tell you this, if I'm a billionaire and I buy the world's most notorious island for pedophiles and I want to rebrand it and change the public perception of it, the very first thing I'm going to do is fire every motherfucker that worked for the last guy who was trafficking kids to that island. I'm not keeping his property manager and if she kidnapped a guy March 1st, I'm not leaving her on the island until April 25th to do it again. Like, these are all giant red flags that, that to me makes it seem like there's not actually a billionaire in the picture. You don't get to become a billionaire by being, you know, reckless. And those seem like some pretty reckless, like, really disastrous PR moves right there, if, if they're true. Wow. What are you thinking? I mean, honestly, and I hate to say this because of how hard I have fought to change the things that bother me, I think our nation's fucked. The Massie election, you know, Shocked me. Shocked me. Did not expect that. We've, we've got good people in Congress, you know.

Ro Khanna, you've, you've sat down, Ro. You— we've got Nancy Mace, um, Massie. There are good people trying. Not Massie anymore.

I don't know, man. I don't know.

You don't think any of them are good? See, I think here's the difference between me and every time I think somebody's good, right? I mean, and that's— that is my perpetual problem.

Just the other day saw something else. I— it's just my default. I don't even like bringing anybody on anymore because I get it. I mean, that's, you know, yes, do I think there are people good in there?

Probably. You know what? But now let's actually—

like, I like Roe. I like Massey. I like— I just, I don't, I just, I don't, I don't know, man. I mean, because every time I vouch for somebody, I interview somebody. I don't really vouch for—

I was about to say interviewing is not the same as vouching.

Yeah, I don't, I don't really vouch for anybody, but every time I— not every— believe in—

every time you believe it.

Yeah, every time I get— I believe it, whatever, I just always wind up— it was just all fucking lies, it was all bullshit. Yep, they're all beating the same fucking drum.

And that's it right there.

And like, you just rattled one of those people off. I just saw one of those people that you rattled off do a tweet: we're not sending our money anymore to Somalia. We're not going to send it to Russia. We're not going to send it to China. We are. We're not going to send it. Yeah. And damn it. And, and I looked under there. Do you know Nick Fuentes? Oh yeah. Nick Fuentes leaves a comment under there. He goes, uh, I think you may have forgot one. Like, oh yeah, it's real. Yeah. Like, oh, it was Nancy. It's like, it's like, oh, okay, you forgot the one fucking country that everybody, all of your fucking constituents are bitching about, but you want to look— you want to look like a fucking courageous hard-ass, right? Uh, you know what I mean? And then, and then it's, it's theatrics.

I spent the bulk of my life an idealist, and I still am, and I trust everybody. My default is just— I just love everybody. I love people, you know, and that gets me burned in my line of work all the fucking time, you know. But having to face the realization that I've been an idealist and just blindly trusting my own government for my entire life, that one, that one made me sit down for a minute. I'll give you an example of just how brainwashed— it's not even brainwashed. I just accepted what got put in front of me for so long. I was all for Israel. And then, you know, we did the Afghan evacs, we did some conflict evac in Ukraine and some other places. So after October 7th, we did some evacs in Israel and we tried to do them in Gaza, which we did a lot of humanitarian aid in all these other places I just named too. And so we tried to do that in Gaza because there's kids starving. And in that process, I think me and a lot of the same people that worked the Afghan evac, we were trying to do this one and we were all believing Israel's good guys and how horrible this attack that just happened.

Which it was horrible. We're a week, 2 weeks maybe into this. And that meme of the dude saying, are we the baddies? Starts going around all these Signal chats because we're all— it's dawning on every one of us in real time. Israel is not who we thought they were. Israel is not who we thought they were. We're seeing in real time evacuation corridors to prevent death and suffering get shut down. We're seeing aid centers get hit. You've seen it in Lebanon right now. We were seeing it in Syria. Hell, Israel put the al-Qaeda leader in power in Syria.

Like, what is it in our country? We invited him. Yes. And the fucking White House.

Yes. And if— fucking— who was it that took a selfie with him? Uh, I don't know, probably Trump. Well, I'm sure. Yeah. Uh, you know what, I'm gonna catch a lot of flack for saying this, and I don't mean it the way it sounds, but actually I do. Everything is fake and gay. All of it. Everything that is getting pushed down our throats, uh, from almost every legacy media outlet. Everything. What you just told me about Mace is a great example. I didn't see that, and it did honestly fucking joke, dude. It's all like that and gay.

Well, you know what, are you a Christian? Absolutely. Okay, that's what I think's happening. I think this is the same fucking government that You know what I mean? The same fucking government that happened when 9/11 happened when we were growing up and all this shit. And now there's a veil being lifted. All these— I mean, nobody's— look, how many— how much— how much shit has the Clintons and the Trumps talked about each other? How much shit have we heard from Donald Trump saying, I'm gonna fucking drain the DC swamp? Oh yeah, bro, the DC swamp just got handed to you on a silver platter. They're a bunch of pedophiles. Yeah, it's in the Pizzagate shit, it's in the Epstein, it's in everything. There you go, there you go. Now you can drain the swamp. Is he gonna drain?

Nothing's happening. Fuck no, he's not.

Nothing's happening because he is the fucking swamp. He's in there with all the rest of them. They're all buddies. And this veil's getting lifted. And you know, we've— I mean, what does Christianity say? Don't idolize Idolizing.

Yeah, period.

Well, we've idolized George Bush, we've idolized Obama, we've idolized Biden, we've idolized— politician worship— idolized all these fucking people. Yeah, you know what I mean? And now this veil is being lifted. These are the people that you've idolized. This is what they've done, right? This is, this is how they live. They live by a different set of rules. And I— that's what's happening. It's all being unveiled, and we're seeing this is why you don't idolize fucking human beings. Bingo, bingo.

And you're seeing it happen not just with, with politicians, you know, it's the athletes. Watching grown men almost fetishize a politician is most bizarre thing in the world to me. It's even weirder than idolizing athletes. And more and more I am seeing that veil being lifted. I think it's why a lot of my content is going viral lately. You know, everybody is starting to realize that there is a war going on and it is us versus them, but it's not the us versus them everybody thought it was. You know, this is our nation is rotting from the top down.

And I think Xi just said we're a fucking declining nation. Trump agreed with him, right? Because we are. We are. We absolutely are.

And, and I think it's going to continue declining as long as we, we look at this as though one side or the other is going to fix it. Like, I'm watching perfectly rational human beings trash brilliant solutions because it came from the wrong team. That's fucking retarded.

It's on— I really do think it's on purpose. It's gotta be. I think the abortion stuff, I think the race stuff, I think Second Amendment stuff, this is shit that we're gonna battle back and forth until the end of time.

It is, because we're being pushed. It— because it's false.

It keeps us in the loop.

It— we're being pushed how everything has to be just two choices, black and white, you know. Either you're pro-abortion and you want to murder babies, or you're anti-abortion and you want, you know, women to die in childbirth. Those aren't the only two fucking options. We can accept that abortion is tragic and should be limited but is sometimes necessary.

It's— that's not the point. Like, these people don't— dude, we have Lindsey Graham in there who has no fucking kids. Why does that guy give a shit what happens to the country when he's fucking dead? He has no kids. He has no fucking future. There's no lineage to look out for. Yeah, how the fuck did that guy get elected? South Carolina.

It's a great question.

I mean, whatever, he's one of the— of however many of the same. Yeah, you know, it's, it's It really— it— I think we're leading up to a holy war. Oh, it's not going to be fucking nations. Yeah, I mean, I want to be solution-based. I think— I think there's a way out of this, but everybody's got to be on the same page.

Well, and you just hit the nail on the head. That is the way out of this, is we have to all come together as Americans and realize, like—

well, I will say that Israel is the one thing since 9/11 that I've seen everybody rallying around. Get off our fucking tit. Yep. We're tired of paying for your fucking education. We're tired of paying for your universal healthcare. We're tired of paying for your fucking Iron Dome. We're tired of paying for your fucking missile defense. We get shit. We're a— we are a fucking cow pasture for Israel. We're tired of fighting your fucking wars. We're tired of dying for your fucking causes. And everybody sees that the United States of America It's nothing but a fucking cow pasture full of cattle to fucking send tax money and fight their fucking wars.

Everybody fucking apparently protects their pedophiles.

Everybody knows except, I don't know, a portion of the baby boomer generation.

Hey, you know what? I'm actually glad you brought that up. I'm on a group text with a bunch of evangelicals, uh, baby boomer men. And this topic actually— I don't know how I ended up there. This topic actually came up the other day and I speak my mind, you know me. And so I dropped a couple examples of things I personally witnessed while we were working the Gaza situation. And they actually went and did their fucking research and came back and like, holy shit, you're right. Israel's not what I thought it was. That blew my mind to have, you know, 65-year-old dudes that are part of the baby boomers that have been all pro-Israel for their whole lives now realizing, I've been lied to, I've been lied to. And I think if we could get more Americans to wake up to that fact and recognize that we've been lied to, that we've been presented false, you know, two-choice narratives where there could be a third option. Actually, the reason we're sitting here is a great example of that. We were told Epstein killed himself, and then this huge fight breaks out that no, Epstein didn't kill himself.

You know, we never got to consider that third option. Maybe the motherfucker left that jail cell alive. And I think that's probably how Israel, the mainstream media, our federal government— that's how they have been keeping us so divided, is that we're given two choices to argue about. Meanwhile, there's a third option that's reality out there. You know, just like the example I just gave with abortion, we're faced with this. It's just one way or the other. And we don't even get to consider the Third Way. Second Amendment, one way or the other, don't consider the Third Way. And so many things tend to exist in that gray area.

They have to have those to keep—

to keep us polarized, to keep us fighting. Yeah. The bullshit that I've seen play out online between blacks and whites blows my fucking mind.

I haven't seen anything about that in a long—

it's right, right. No, it's—

that's dead. That's a dead argument now. But, but it's a great example of the bullshit because you guys got to see it when you came to Memphis. It's not real. You go to the worst streets in America, there's nobody gives a fuck. That is, that is one of those problems that really only exists in people's heads and online. It's manufactured. It's manufactured. Manufactured hate and division. And that same playbook keeps getting used for every major societal issue.

It keeps people in the loop, but the loop is dying. I think it is too. The loop's gonna die with the baby boomer generation. I mean, 85%— I read this— 85% of Gen Z is tired of the bullshit with Israel. 85%. 85%. Yeah, I think, I think Gen X, that's probably—

how old are you? Are you right? Right there? Yeah, you're like me.

We don't know if we're Gen X or millennials, but, uh, 55% of Gen X tired of the bullshit with Israel. I can't remember millennials. I think it's 65%, 70% or something, but it's getting over more. It's over.

It needs to be. It's reached its—

It's going to die with the baby boomer generation. They're the last supporters of this shit. Now, whether anything changes or not, who the fuck knows? You know what I mean? An entire new party has to be elected. It has to be elected all at once. I talked about this with Cenk Uygur. How do we make— and that's why, like, like, I really do, I like Roe. I like Eli Crane. Me and Eli have— I, I hate saying that we have wildly different opinions. Yeah, fucking wildly different opinions than everybody I know, but— and that's okay. Yeah. Yeah, you know, but, um, Eli's kind of on the other end of this, I think, maybe. But, but you know what, like, that's a guy that emails his constituents and they tell him how to vote. And I don't know any other fucking politician—

that is exactly how it's supposed to work.

Exactly. And you cannot fault a man for doing what his constituents want him to do. Yeah, that's literally his job. Yeah. And, and yeah, I really like, I really like Massie. There's a couple other people that I think maybe there's some hope, but in order to create the new system, I'm sorry, everybody has to go.

Everybody has to go. Every incumbent has to be out.

Any remnants left. I could not agree more. And it all has to happen at once. It can't be a fucking president. It can't be a senator here and there, a couple of con— it has to happen all at once, as much as possible, all at once. I know not everybody's up for election all at once. But there has to be some type of a uniparty, you know, where everybody comes together and it is against the Republican Party and it's against the DNC. And it has to be all the— and, and they have to run on the fact that we're going to amend the Constitution. These are the things we're going to amend. It's going to be term limits. It's going to be no more money in politics. Those are the first things you're going to do when you fucking pass inside that way, because it's going to get corrupted again. It's only a matter of time before it gets corrupted again. And so when that happens, they need to pass what we need them to pass, which are those two things, plus probably a bunch more shit. But those are the two things, like first session after election, get your fucking asses in there, amend that Constitution, the end.

Now we can go back to fighting about abortion and race and all the other shit.

Taking care of term limits would, would stop the rot.

I don't think that's it.

Oh, I don't mean immediately. Yeah. And not by itself. We've got to stop the insider trading. We've got to stop anything that allows elected officials to profit from their position, period, across the board. But I do completely agree. It's going to take— it's going to take a viable third party.

I mean, there's just— it feels like there's so much truth right now being unveiled. Nothing's happening yet. I mean, even when I'm around my phone, I mean, I've always thought this, you know what I mean? I mean, I, me and a couple of guys, um, developed a whole application, uh, that we're unveiling later on. Hell yeah. You know, for, for, for phone privacy and security. So that's how fucking paranoid I am about it, that I've went out and developed my own damn app because of it. And it's going to be called Glacier.— and, uh, probably out by the time the show's out. But I, I, I don't even— I don't even— every time I say something that I'm not proud of or that I may regret if it hits the public, and I'm around my phone, I just look. I'm like, yep, that's, that's going to get unveiled at some point in time. I'm, I'm being serious. No, I agree, because I think, I think, I think truth is coming to the light now. It just depends on what we're going to do with it when we get it.

Well, and that's, that's the scary part. What if, what if all the truth comes out and nothing changes? Nobody does anything. Then we deserve what we've got. And that's a sad thing to accept, isn't it?

I read in the Wall Street Journal that there have never been more Americans leaving the United States as there is right now, really, this time, applying for dual citizenship coming up with contingency plans because there is no confidence in our institutions. There's no confidence in our people. There's no confidence in the country. How fucking sad is that?

I've spent years arguing that Memphis, Tennessee is worth saving. I never thought I'd be having to have that conversation about this country.

The people are worth saving. 100%. 100%.

People are always worth saving. Government ain't worth a fuck right now. No, it hasn't been for a while. Probably since JFK. Yeah. And who killed—

you think that's weird? Who killed him?

Who killed JFK?

Yeah, I mean, where all the signs are pointing, you know. I mean, Tulsi had the JFK files. In her house and they raided her. Supposedly they raided her. She came out and said they didn't raid her and quit. Then the next week she resigns.

It's all fake and gay. What's real?

There's your next t-shirt.

I'd get— that's the problem. I'm gonna get canceled just for saying that, but it's true. It's true. You know, I just I open my phone half the time and I'm blown away at how stupid the majority of people seem to be. And then I have to ask myself, is this real? Are they actually this stupid or is this another influence campaign being funded by some, you know? And that's honestly, I think that's what a lot of this ridiculous stuff we see popping up online is. Well, people already—

they already came out there paying $70,000 a post, supposedly. Holy shit. Be pro-Israel, right? $7,000 a post. Did you know that?

I did not know that. And that's our money, I'm sure, that we gave them, that they're—

I don't know where it comes from. I don't know who got paid. Who knows? That could be some AI fake campaign. I don't think so. Pretty much everybody I know knows about the $7,000 a post, but It's bad. It's bad. I mean, we got to throw the tweet up of AIPAC celebrating the fact that they bought an election in Kentucky. Yeah, you need to throw that up. Bought an election. Bragging about buying an election in Kentucky. Yeah, not even hiding it.

And this is how liberty dies. And what are we going to do? I hate to feel so nihilistic about it, but I mean, there's all kinds of crazy shit happening.

Just our stance on the world, how fast it's changing. I mean Just read something the other day about the Canadian pipeline that's now selling the majority of its oil to China to diversify from the United States because we fucking slapped a 25% tariff on them. That worked out well. Oh yeah. Oh, Trump also came out and said we might have to repay all of these tariffs.

Really? Yeah, I missed that one. Yeah.

God. So what is this island now? So what? What is this island now?

It appears to be Anne Rodriguez's hangout. That's what it appears to be to me, where she still gets to hogtie people and throw them in a dungeon. That's, uh, that's what it feels like on paper. Billionaire Stephen Dekoff bought it and is trying to rebrand it and wants to build a resort there. If, if that's true, I'm a little concerned about his choice of island manager, but I have a hard time believing that that's true. You know, I really do. Time will tell. Time will tell.

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Brian Dalton. Sean Ryan.

Welcome to the show, man. Glad to be here, man. Glad to have you. It's quite the, uh, adventure you guys have been on here in the past couple months. It's been a wild ride, man. Yeah, no shit. Well, let me give you an introduction here. Ryan Dalton, you began your career as a human rights lawyer focused on combating child sex trafficking and dismantling trafficking networks. You co-founded Rescue Forensics, an intelligence platform that helped law enforcement recover more than 150 child victims. You later served as a special agent with the U.S. Department of State's Diplomatic Security Service and worked in crisis response and intelligence operations supporting federal law enforcement and national security partners. Today you are the co-founder of Closed Horizon, a platform focused on restoring integrity to information in, in an era defined by deception. Most recently, you were— most recently, you're one of the men alongside Ben Owen during the Little, Little St. James excursion tied to the Epstein Isn't Dead campaign. Ryan Dalton, welcome to the show. Glad to be here. So it's— so you were on the— you were on this excursion with Ben? Yeah. So before we get into why you think Epstein is still alive, what prompted this?

Yeah, we met Ben and realized that we felt similarly about this, felt similarly that there's something real weird going on here that we couldn't quite figure out. So we decided we're going to go down to the island after having this conversation and feeling that we are on the same page about, you know, Epstein might have left that saw alive to bring attention back to that island and back to this issue. One of the concerns that we had is that it seems to be There's distractions that are just one after another. There's the Iran war and there's UFO files. And all of these distractions are pulling attention away from an issue that I think points to a stranglehold on our democracy and our institutions deeper than Epstein. And it deserves continued attention. What do you think it is? I think that the Epstein The Epstein Files reveal a child sex trafficking operation that was used as leverage over our politicians by a larger power structure that continues to have a stranglehold on our institutions. And so a blackmail operation, a blackmail operation, effective for a long time. Yeah, really effective because it predates the internet. This is a blackmail operation that predates the internet, that now with the internet, people put the pieces together and it's a lot harder to hide it.

And I think that blackmail operation for a very long time was very successful.

Mm-hmm. I think it still is. Yeah. Look, it was— look at what's going on. Yeah. Nobody's talking. Nobody's getting arrested. Yeah. The only names that I'm aware of that have been unveiled, unredacted, is, is the victims, correct? They haven't revealed any abusers' names, have they? Am I wrong on that?

No, there's some that have forced this. Like, I think that Matthew on the House floor insisted on revealing one of the co-conspirators. There's a document where there were some co-conspirators who were listed that he came forward and said, here's one of— I forget which one it was, maybe Les Wexner. But aside from that, there's not much that the US has done. Now, foreign countries have some real courage where they're investigating this and really putting some effort into the the investigation. See, I thought this because King Charles, right? Uh, Prince Andrew.

Prince Andrew. Excuse me, Prince Andrew did. But he's off the hook already, isn't he?

Oh, I don't know the latest status of his. Yeah, he got arrested. Oh, he did? For— it wasn't a child abuse crime, I don't believe. I believe it was something like conduct unbecoming of his official diplomatic role that he was in at the time. But it was an arrest. It's more than we got here.

Fair point. Fair point. Well, before we get into it, are you familiar with Polymarket? I am. Here's the context. The market, $2.27 million plus in live trading volume on Polymarket, resolves yes only if irrefutable proof is publicly revealed that Epstein is still alive before December 31st, 2026. The DOJ has released 3 million plus pages, 2,000 videos, and 180,000 images. Wonder what those images are of. From its Epstein investigation, official records from the NYC Medical Examiner, DOJ OIG, and FBI established his 2019 death as suicide by hanging. The crowd gives survival confirmation a 5% chance.

We want proof of life.

We want proof of life. Yeah, I mean, there's been a number of things that I dug up, but they've all been debunked, like the AI photos. You know, there was some maniac Florida man posing as Jeffrey Epstein going down the highway. That's been debunked. I got him right here, I'll read them off real quick. Claim 1: a post on X claiming Israel faked his death gained over 6 million views. It featured a photo purportedly showing Epstein alive in Tel Aviv, sporting white hair and a shaggy beard. A second doctor image garnered another 2.4 million views. The verdict: both images were confirmed AI-generated or digitally altered altered. Reverse image searches trace the originals to unrelated photos, one dated May of 2020, after Epstein's 2019 death. Claim number 2: active Fortnite account. A Fortnite profile named Little— Littlest Jeff 1 appeared active after Epstein's death, sparking speculation. The account went private shortly after the speculation spread. Which many took as suspicious confirmation. Verdict: Fortnite confirmed that an existing account owner simply changed their username to Littlest Jeff 1 after the DOJ Epstein files were released. Epstein's email address had no record in the Fortnite system. Claim number 3: Palm Beach Pete lookalike.

March of 2026, a video of a Florida man driving on I-95 went viral, with social media users claiming the driver was Epstein and that he was still alive. The verdict: the man nicknamed Palm Beach Pete publicly broke his silence, confirming, confirming he is simply a private citizen who resembles Epstein. He described the situation as phenomenal.

Florida Man, Florida Man at it again.

Claim, claim number 4. This is the last one. Maxwell replaced by lookalike, February 2026. After Maxwell's deposition in February 26, social media users pointed out perceived discrepancies in her facial features and voice, suggesting a lookalike had been swapped in. Verdict: CBS News compared photos of Maxwell from 2015, 2016, 2020, and 2026 and identified consistent features across all, including eyebrow shape, ear structure, lip shape, and hair silhouette. Voice differences were attributed to differing disposition contexts. You got anything that's not those? Lots of things that aren't those.

All right. Yeah. And, you know, I agree with these. These are— I'm not convinced Palm Beach Pete is anything but a psyop. It's just too on the nose. Yeah. Yeah. It just is way too on the nose. I don't have any comment on Delaine. I don't really. Haven't really studied that at all. What was the first one?

Hmm. Oh, that was the AI photos.

AI. Oh, yeah. So we put together an evidence timeline that walks the reader through the evidence, and it has to meet a threshold for us. More likely than not, 51 to 49%. So what we've done is in our disclaimer about how to read this evidence, is we've excluded anything that could be AI related, anything that's post-AI era. We're not even looking at it. And the reason for that is how easy it is to fabricate evidence that can go viral. It's not persuasive. So what we've done is taken the information from the files themselves and look at the story the files tell, the files, court documents, depositions, OIG investigations. What story does the official release of the files tell the people who dig into this? And so anything outside of those bounds, we may supplement with a news article that confirms a statement, but we source all of this very carefully where we have the claim and then the sources and the claim and then the sources on each of these cards as we walk the reader down this. Because we're making a really big claim. You can't do this halfway. There's no half measures on this one.

Yeah. If you're making the claim that Epstein left that cell alive and you pull on that thread, it implicates larger power structures in our government and a deep level of corruption.

Now, I just have one question. Why would anybody want him alive? What would the point of keeping him alive be? It can only bring risk.

Yeah. So say that you are Jeffrey Epstein and you have a multi-decade blackmail operation going on. Mm-hmm. He was collecting blackmail when you had to put it on a floppy drive. Mm-hmm. He's been doing this for a long time, and we know this because the properties that he owned were wired up with cameras. This is pretty well established, right? So he has this large corpus of video and photographic evidence on all the people that he could want to get these on— celebrities, politicians, scientists. And he's a master of getting leverage. This appears to be a leverage campaign. So if he has this much leverage, he's playing a dangerous game in that if it goes sideways on him, he has to make sure that he has his own insurance policy. And what better insurance policy than retention of all of this evidence as your dead man switch? No shit.

So you don't think this evidence has been shipped out to a bigger entity?

I don't know what happened to the evidence, but I think it would be negligent of him to not have enough of it that he could say, hey, listen, is this going to be a problem? Am I going to have to let this out? And there's enough people that I think would be persuaded that they don't want that to happen. Mm-hmm. That's my, that's my best guess. The one to keep them alive. What I do know is the government and co-conspirators were highly, highly motivated to have a dead defendant. Or at least the appearance of a dead defendant. Mm-hmm. And the reason for that is criminal discovery. So he's arrested for a sex trafficking offense and is going through the criminal proceedings process. As part of that is discovery where the plaintiff and the defendant surface all the evidence. It all comes out. Now, this is pre-release of the files. So what's going to come out? Flight logs, phone numbers, associates, financial records, everything that could defend or support the government's position is going to have to inevitably come out. And the government and the co-conspirators have no control over this. He could not have gone to trial.

That would have been a disaster because all the evidence that come out would implicate people all the way up and down the government and probably foreign governments. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He couldn't have gone to trial. And so, you know what stops criminal proceedings? The death of the defendant. But if you have a defendant who has an enormous body of evidence available to blackmail people with and get leverage on them, well, then what's your option? The only remaining option is to publicly have a dead defendant and privately make sure there's no loose ends and extract him. And this is what the files, the evidence supports in the files.

Wow. What do you got for us?

So the first thing I think is to understand really who this guy was as best we possibly can. And we know some things that are just very much in the public sector about him. So he's this alleged billionaire financial savant. He manages money for people, allegedly, that have a lot of money. But then there are clues in the files that are—

maybe he says he works for the Rothschilds, right? Yeah, that's in the files.

Is it in the files? Peter Thiel saying that. So that was in an email to Peter Thiel saying— that's what I thought— as you know, I believe were his words. I work for the Rothschilds. So he's trying to seemingly get an introduction for some kind of tech play, it looks like. He's making the introduction by doing a little bit of name dropping, right? Like, hey, there's some money on the other end of this if we're going to talk. Seems to be the way the email reads. So he has connections that are larger. And here's the best piece of evidence we have for this. So I've got show and tell for you. Perfect. This was discovered in the search warrant in New York for one of his properties, and what you're looking at is an Austrian passport with his photo, a younger Epstein, and the alias of Robert Marius. This passport appears to be a fraudulent passport. So not a fake one. A fake passport is when you have a passport that's not a valid travel document, right? Like, I make it at home. A valid passport can be fraudulent under someone else's name. This appears to be valid because he has entry and exit stamps.

It's like the shit the intel agencies do. This is our first valid passport with a pseudonym.

Yeah. So this is the first connection where we have evidence of this potentially connecting to an intel agency, because who can issue valid passports under a different name? Well, there's consular who could do it right under legitimate circumstances. And you could make the argument that, oh, well, maybe he got a fast one on Consular of Austria and he submitted this information. And, you know, they issued it. But under what motivation? Who's motivating him to get this passport? The other argument is, is that was furnished to him and had an operational purpose. In either case, we know for sure this passport was recovered from his safe with entry and exit stamps with his face and an alias. Wow.

Where did you get this? The files.

This is in the files. So everything I'm going to show you today, we've pulled from the files or public reporting that can be fact-checked. All of this can be fact-checked. Again, this goes back to no half measures. We cannot make a claim like this without substantial evidence. Huge risk, reputational risk goes into making a claim that he left that cell alive. But there's only 3 options. Either he died from suicide in the cell, he was murdered, or he left the cell alive. And of the three, the one with the fewest problems is that he left the cell alive. Wow.

Put this up on screen. What else do we got? What is— I mean, where were these stamps to?

So I think it's on our website. I think it was Saudi Arabia, France, and one more. Um, but they're documented entry and exit stamps. You can see, um, the countries. I can't recall the third, but what's your website?

What's the address?

Yeah, it's epsteinisntdead.org. And it's layout, remember, this evidence. Yeah, epsteinisntdead.org. Yeah, because I was going through this initially out of just pure personal interest. I'm a criminal investigator and lawyer by my background, and I also care deeply about child trafficking. Through my career, this has been a theme of my career, and I have a daughter, and so it hits a little harder for me. And I'm looking at the files, and I use, um, large language models to surface the things that are in there that are maybe a little bit harder to find manually. And I'm putting together a timeline because that's how a criminal investigator typically thinks, is in terms of a timeline. And I start looking at this information and I think, no way, no way am I arriving at this conclusion. I don't like this conclusion. It's uncomfortable for me. I'm not happy about it. One of the seductive things about conspiracies is how entertaining they are for many people. This is not something that I find particularly fun, but if the evidence continually supports a conclusion, we have to stare at that conclusion in its face and see if it's true. And so I sent this to probably 100 people and I was like, Guys, fact check me on this.

Sanity check me on all this. Am I crazy? And I sent it to people and they were like, bro, you put all this together? Yeah, this is something here. And I think that we make a compelling case for it. And if he left that cell alive, it demands it. The country, Congress, the DOJ to reckon with that and take it seriously.

I think we know the DOJ and Congress is definitely not going to take it seriously.

That's what I'm afraid of too. And maybe not this administration, maybe not this batch of Congress people, but the American people aren't going to let this one go.

You don't think so?

I don't think so. They can't. Because think about what it means if we give up on this one. If we give up on a child trafficker, brought kids to an island to serve them to the world's elite, killed them, ate them, and used that as leverage to get a stranglehold on our democracy. If we let that go, just give it all up, all of it. What does any of it matter anymore? If that— we let this one go, none of it matters anymore. And I think the American people intuitively feel this. I think they intuitively feel something's wrong, but they can't quite put words on it. And that's what we tried to do. It's really, here's what you feel is wrong. Here's what it is. And so we lay it out and make the case for him leaving that cell alive being the option that has the fewest problems of the three. What else you got? So follow the money. Before he dies, 2 days before he dies, he executes a new will and trust that moves $577 million into a new legal vehicle that I would structure this way if I was about to fake my death.

So he meets with his lawyers up to 12 hours a day while he's in prison. And the outcome of this is the creation of the 1953 Trust, where all of his assets that are known are moved into this trust. And this accomplishes two things at the same time. The first thing it does is it, uh, makes it very difficult to ascertain the beneficiaries of this money. So trusts can be created in such a way that the beneficiaries of that are not accessible to the public. And so it would allow him to access this money and these assets in a roundabout way through shell companies and through having estate planning that supports the complexity needed to access this money later. The second thing it does is it, it prevents any of his assets from going through probate, which would also make this public in the probate process. He restructures his entire estate 2 days before he dies. Now, is this complex estate planning? For someone who's like, you know what, I'm about to end my life and I feel like I need to put everything into the right place at the right time for all my money?

Or is it estate planning for someone who wants to get access to those assets after they're out of jail? And I think that the way that I read it is someone who's suicidal, who really is about to kill themselves. And I don't believe he was like that because he was so obsessed with immortality. He was so obsessed with health and all kinds of sort of fringe things about continuing his life onward. And he was probably like all billionaires and sex traffickers have some ego. And he's already got a sweetheart deal in 2007. So there's some hubris there. I can't reconcile that with someone creating a will and trust who's about to kill themselves. It doesn't sit right. It seems more likely that that complex estate planning is in preparation for accessing those assets after he's out.

I mean, a lot of people also think that he was given a choice. Hmm.

Meaning you kill yourself or we're going to do it kind of thing. Mm-hmm. If he died in that cell, It doesn't explain his escape plan.

You seeing this? No, there's an escape plan?

Yeah. So you're a SEAL. Get the fuck out of here. You tell me if this is an evasion plan. I'm gonna hand you this. I'm doing this out of order a little bit, but you're all right. You went through Sierra, right? I didn't. Oh no? No. Well, you're familiar.

I evaded out of that one.

You evaded out. So my partner Alex, smart guy, and he looked at this. I called it an escape plan and he rightly corrected me. He said, no man, this is an evasion plan. So I'm going to give you context for this document that you're holding. This is the smoking gun for me. This is the single piece of evidence that gives me the confidence to have this conversation with you right now. You're looking at a— two notes. There's two pages here of legal paper that were found in his cell after his alleged death. Most people are not talking about this at all. Very little conversation is happening about these documents, and it is astonishing to me. This is an escape plan. So keep in mind what just happened. He just restructured his estate and has set himself up to have access after he leaves. And then 2 days later, he allegedly dies, and this is recovered from his cell. So what you're looking at, um, some of it's illegible. And so I'm not going to speculate about the things that I can't read because his handwriting was atrocious. It was super inconsiderate of him to have terrible handwriting and make me have to figure this out later on.

But I'm going to draw attention to some of the things here that really stand out. And the first is, do you see in the middle top of the page where red notice is underlined multiple times? Mm-hmm. A red notice is an Interpol notice that goes out to worldwide policing agencies for a fugitive. So why is a guy about to kill himself concerned about red notices? Mm-hmm. This is again on legal paper. So I don't know this for sure, but this was potentially furnished to him by his lawyers who carry legal paper and not the note as it exists now, but that's where he got the paper. So were these conversations happening with the people that were there providing legal counsel to him. I don't know. But it seems to be based on the time frame. They're pretty close to each other for when these would have been written. The next thing that really jumps out at the top, top right next to that dollar sign, it says what I believe to be blackmail. See the dollar sign there? In the top right. Yeah. Next to it. That word looks like blackmail to me. Yeah. So what's happening if he gets out?

He's thinking about where to get money. If he's gotten blackmail on people, that's pretty easy. Like, hey, man, you just wire me $10,000, $100,000, $1,000,000, whatever leverage he has to get access to money because you got to figure out how to live. While you're out, and maybe he doesn't know what he has access to. I can't read the word above that. I don't know if it says bounty. So I'm not going to speculate further, but beneath it, it definitely says guards. Guards are a problem. If you want to get out of a federal prison, you got to deal with the guards. We can talk about the guards in a little bit. But he's for sure worried about the guards. And then there's some things in between, but I can contextualize the things in between based on the drawing that you see there in the middle right. What does that look like to you?

Are you talking about this?

This right here?

Yeah. Oh, down here. Yeah. Looks like some sort of a compound.

Yeah, it looks to me like an airport from overhead, and it looks like an airport because of the word BRAD. So Bradley International Airport is a small regional airport that's 2 hours away from the Metropolitan Correctional Center. So the nearest small airport, and if he's going to fly out of there, it can't be through LaGuardia or JFK. For obvious reasons.

What says jet right here too, right? Looks like it says Nigeria above that. That's right.

So above it, and we know this is an airport, it says BRAD, Bradley International Airport would be a great airport to go to if you don't want to deal with customs and you want to have access to the services expected of someone who has a lot of money. So private hangars, private runways, It has these things. And above it, it says— I can't tell what the middle word is. So it either says jet versus prop or jet US prop. So that could either be this is a jet or it's a prop plane. What kind of vehicle are we in here? Or it could be a jet US property. Is he flying out on a US plane? Because that would have obvious risks carried with it if he's escaping on a US-controlled aircraft and tail number.

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See you later. World's tallest building. What do you think, Sean? We're high.

And then where's he going? Who was in— who was in office when he committed suicide?

There was, um, it was Trump in office then, right?

That's so weird. Yeah. Who would have thought?

Yeah, I think it goes all the way to the top. So where does he go? Well, we don't know. We can only speculate, but we can see that there's intent here based on these locations that are written above. JET versus PROVNUM, kind of walking you back up the page, it says Nigeria. So that's probably an okay location to hide, I guess. No one's going to look for Epstein in Africa. Would Qatar and Saudi Arabia be locations? I mean, they're very friendly. Access to money associates there for sure. We know that. So the Q and the S next to Nigeria could indicate other locations that he's interested in. And then to the left of that, it says gangsters. See that to the left of the Q in the essay? Yeah. I don't know what that means, but I would imagine if you're someone like him, you're willing to make a lot of friends with a lot of people, not all of them good people who can get you the things that you need. Gangsters are people who can be fixers for you and not ask questions. So that's a logical person to ask, or group of people.

And then there's a lot of other things on here that I just don't know what mean. And it would be completely—

This looks like a US map.

Yeah, up here in the middle left. Yeah, it does. It looks like a US map. Someone said a cow.

Looks like a cow too.

It does look like a cow.

What do you think this is? The redacted portion. I have no idea.

Beneath it though, it says computer and then something illegible and then question mark and then VI, which I'm assuming means Virgin Islands. Palm Beach. Oh, that's right, Palm Beach. The PB. Yeah, it's got to be Palm Beach. So computer, Palm Beach, question marks, VI, Virgin Islands. And above that it says G. That's what he called Ghislaine, is G. So he's thinking about Ghislaine and computer, or multiple computers, in Palm Beach and Virgin Islands. And I'd be pretty worried about computers if I were him too. It also— there's one piece on here Um, it looks like LSR up near the travel part. My best guess on that, and I'm not willing to guess on many of these if I don't feel confident, but LSR seems to be last stop routes. So my understanding is in aviation, this is a term indicating an airfield that is the last on a connecting journey that to get to that airfield would mean it's relatively remote compared to other airfields and likely has less immigration and customs restrictions. That's where I'd want to go if I'm trying to evade.

What do you think is under LSN? Looks like it says Muslim, maybe.

It does say Muslim, maybe Asia under that. Yeah, I can't make out that third character. Above it, it says Muslim. And so I would imagine that Muslim nations would be potentially easy to hide in. It— find a remote area and hole up somewhere. You're not going to be looked for in some of them. That's entirely speculation, but it does say Muslim pretty clearly.

Why would he have written this all down?

I thought that too. Why write all this down and then leave it in the cell? Why leave your escape plan in your cell? And then I remembered, oh, Epstein and his associates were talking over Gmail about raping and eating kids. His OPSEC was bad. He didn't give a damn about any of his OPSEC, about any of this over Gmail. And being in the government, we both know you can't talk about anything over anything or someone's going to suck up those comms. He has decades of not caring. And he leaves this behind. Someone's going to sanitize this cell. He's got people that do this for him. My best guess is, is there's some hubris here, some pride, and that whoever's redacting these things didn't know what they were looking at, or they did know what they were looking at. And our institutions are not homogeneous, meaning that some federal agent or lawyer looked at this, redacted only what was absolutely required, and allowed us to piece this together. I hope that's the case, because these people that are performing these redactions took the oath that you and I did to support and defend the Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic.

Yeah. Even when they come from inside the House.

Everybody's just doing their job, right? Yeah. That's the excuse. Excuse. It's always the excuse. I'm just doing my job. Fuck you. Yeah.

And they have to reckon with that. And there's some that have resigned. And I admire that courage because here's the sinister nature of this whole scheme. You can't whistleblow on this and bring out the actual best evidence because it's illegal. One, for classified. Two, for child sexual abuse material. You transmit that to a reporter, you've just earned yourself a strict liability offense where they don't care what your intent was.

You're going to jail. Yeah. The old two-tiered justice system.

Real quick on this one. Let me show you page 2. Oh shit. This is the real zinger. Great. So the top of page 2, he's complaining about something. I don't know. He got, he had a bad day. He got locked into the shower or something. I think that's absolutely hilarious. I imagine him sitting in that cell and just just, dear diary, I had a bad day. Like, he's, he's pretty upset. You flip it over, this second from the top line says jail out equals 10. And he allegedly died in that cell on August 10th, 2019. He had foreknowledge of the day that he's getting out. So what you're left with in this— this is the smoking gun— is you have an escape plan written by a person who knows they're going to be a fugitive about where the nearest airport is, what considerations to avoid, how to get money, and foreknowledge of the day that they're going to leave that cell. This is an evasion plan.

Wow, you might be right.

Someone who's going to kill themselves doesn't write this down. Shit.

Do you think there's any chance this could be a psyop?

Yeah, there's layers of psyops here, top to bottom. This could be a psyop for sure. What I can't reconcile this, and I've thought about this, is this disinformation? I guess that's always possible. But when you take the totality of it all, this piece into the larger picture that it paints, it makes the most sense that he left that cell alive because of the other mistakes that were made in this coverup and the post-prison signals of life. And each of these pieces by themselves don't have equal weight. It's up to the reader to make decisions about which ones weigh the most for them. But you can put mathematical modeling on these and apply objective standards to them. And this has been done. And we're going to put up this mathematical model on the website for people who have PhDs in statistics to evaluate. But what we've done— and this is my good friend Nick McKinley, who runs a nonprofit called Deliver Fund, who does amazing work in the counter-trafficking space, former CIA guy, PJ, hero by all accounts, rescued many kids from the horrors of that industry. I'm aware of them. Yeah, he did a mathematical model on this and he looked at this and he said the smoking gun for him was the statistical odds of this being possible.

And he took the 14 largest anomalies. You can group those into cameras, guards, and protocols. For the cameras, we know Again, all this can be fact-checked. Some of them just straight up went down, just like not were working at all. Some of them did work, but then the footage is just missing. We just don't know what happened to it. Epstein's cellmate lawyers tried to get this footage and it's just file not found. Of the ones that were working, we have a missing minute of footage. Gone. Just not there. I know, man.

I know.

I think, uh, and then you have, of the footage that we got, the supposedly raw footage, Wired showed that, that Wired magazine showed that Adobe Premiere Pro edited that raw footage, take those anomalies and compound them with the guards who were every 30 minutes supposed to check on him and they didn't. They fell asleep. They were browsing the internet, shopping online. And then the protocol of him not having a roommate despite trying to commit suicide, allegedly, and despite the Department of Psychology at the prison who sends out an email to 70 people, including the warden, saying that this guy needs to have a roommate and nothing was done. And so now you have a guy in jail, has no guards watching him, no roommate, cameras go down, and is in the prime position for extraction. The odds of this, all of these failures happening concurrently, based on this model that we're going to allow people to scrutinize as much as they want and argue with us about it. Is 1— let's see if I can get this right— 1 in 5 × 10^30. Those numbers are meaningless to me unless I can put them into an actual something that makes sense in my head.

And it would be the equivalent of taking a quarter and flipping heads 102 times in a row. Shit. Not happening. And so this moves us away from conjecture and conspiracy forums and into mathematical understanding of the odds of this happening. It is effectively impossible where a mathematician would look at this and say, you've made an assumption wrong or there's an error in your reasoning because if this is what the odds show, This is impossible. He was left in that cell in the prime position for extraction.

Why would anybody else want him alive? What do you mean? Well, let's say he was working for the Rothschilds like he says he was. Do you think they would want him alive?

Why the fuck did they even arrest him to begin with?

From the get-go, it was a cleanup job.

It happened twice, so he wasn't probably worried about it. It happened once before in Palm Beach, and he got a sweetheart deal, which is a whole nother rabbit trail. That's just astonishing to me.

But a guy this connected, right? You know what I mean? This connected. Yeah. Why would they even— how would he even get booked to jail anyways? Why would they even have a case on them? Don't you think somebody would have pulled them off?

I think our DOJ and FBI are not homogeneous. I think the leverage starts at the top, but there are men and women who took that oath and take it seriously in our organizations.

I know, but I'm just saying, you know as well as I do, lots of investigations— domestic, overseas— doesn't— I mean, lots of investigations have been you know, stopped for whatever reason, you know, hey, we're pulling you off this. Yeah.

Why wouldn't somebody just get pulled off? It certainly would have been very high profile, right? So it's going to go through layers of review. And I think it's going to depend on where this octopus of stranglehold and all of its legs have wrapped itself around someone who could make that call. It's not a perfect cover-up. They've made mistakes. They're humans. They're not all-powerful. And I refuse to think that the corruption runs complete through our institutions. Maybe one day it will, but I don't think it does right now. What do you mean by that? Meaning that if the corruption were complete, then everyone on our institutions would be Team Epstein. You don't feel like they are? I feel at the top it looks kind of what I mean.

That to me, that means complete, um, based on leadership. Yeah, if the leadership in every one of our institutions is all beating the same drum, nothing's going to become— nothing's going to get accomplished. We're seeing that, right? Yeah, this is— you can only do so much And then when you get yanked off, I'm just doing my job.

Yeah. You know, there are clues for this that are interesting to me. For example, Kash Patel sat in this chair and said that he was going to clean it all up.

Oh, I burned that chair.

I'm just kidding. Yeah, but I believed him. And I remarked to my wife at the time, like, that's the politician I believe in. That's awesome. I want that.

I was warned before I had him on the show. He was completely full of shit. Yeah, a very good friend of mine, and he was fucking right.

Yeah, but you have an optimist in you probably that didn't want to believe that, and I've got that one in me too. The America that I grew up in, and when I look at that flag and what I feel about that flag, I can't let that go. And him sitting here and watching that conversation about what he really means. I wonder if he really meant it or if when he sat on the House floor and he said there's nothing in those Epstein files and perjured himself. Why? Where's the leverage? Where does it start and how deep does it go? And I just can't believe it goes as deep as the federal agents who took the oath and who go home to their families at night and are not in the spotlight and run their investigations. Some of them, maybe. I can't imagine it's all of them.

I mean, I don't think it's, I don't think it's the lower level guys. Probably not even the mid-tier. Probably not even all the way to the top tier. But I think the top tier fucking knows.

Yeah, that's my read on it too. I know those guys, man. I was a federal agent. I got tons of friends that are feds. They're good people, but some of them are looking at this information and saying, yeah, I'll redact that, I'll redact that, I'll redact that. And at some point they're complicit in this cover-up because it is a cover-up. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

What are you hoping to gain by doing this?

We started Closed Horizon out of the belief that America's in an epistemological crisis. Epistemology being the study of how you know the things that you know. What is truth? We're lied to constantly. Constantly. There's a new psyop every day. We deserve better psyops. There's a new one every day. Deception, lies coming from the White House, our institutions, corruption, AIPAC buying our government seats. Look what happened to Massey.

Everything's a fucking lie, man. It's all a lie. It's all lies. Everything's everything. I mean, Even, I mean, I just— this episode, I just did this episode with this guy Pete Blaber, uh, Delta Colonel, and we went over a whole slew of lies of just Naval Special Warfare's propping people up like heroes and passing out— it's passing out awards. And I mean, I'm pretty sure you know about this shit. And that's— yes, even though, uh, people that I know died in those events and were killed and they were fighting for the country. I mean, that is so— I hate to say it like this, but that is so far— it's just not as significant as what we're talking about right now. When you're talking about people eating babies and raping fucking kids and blackmail and are basically— our government is run by a shadow government. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's— but I mean, we lie, we lie about that shit.

Yeah, did you see the email? Crazy. That was sent to Ghislaine asking if she wants to be on the shadow 9/11 Commission. No, I didn't see that. She gets an email, you can dig it up in the files.

Put it up on screen right now.

To be on the shadow 9/11 Commission. And here's what's interesting about the files. You want to get into corruption? There is a canyon of missing files between '99 and 2002. Nothing came out in those years. Well, what happened in those years? You have both 9/11 and the dot-com crash, major events that shaped the next decades of history. What's being hidden there?

What do you think, Svean Eden?

I think that what we've been told about some of those events is really uncomfortable and not true. And it would create an existential crisis for a generation of Americans who fought, bled, and died overseas. Because they looked at those towers being hit and they said, this cannot stand in my country. I'm going to serve my country honorably and I'm going to go fight over there because they saw what happened there. And I don't think it was what it was, what was portrayed to be. And I think that canyon of files, if it ever comes out, will show this. Do you think the files even still exist?

That's a good question.

I hope so. I hope they do.

You gonna watch the big UFC event tonight at the White House?

The, the big fight? Yeah, July 4th.

That's what we're all worried about, right? The fucking UFC fight.

Your bread and circus. Here, take your bread and circus.

It really is biblical, man. It is.

It's a war of good and evil. And I knew this was a war in good and evil when I saw the darkest thing in the files. I used to think that this was a criminal organization that was very sophisticated, and it is, but it's deeper than that. This is a good and evil issue. There was an email I gotta be careful. Um, there was an email between Epstein and an associate, and it's redacted who this associate is, where Epstein recounts how a girl told him that she believed while in her bed that God protected her. And that Jesus was watching over her. And then he says, whoops. And the person replies, you should dress up like him, being Jesus, the next time you see her. We don't wrestle against flesh and blood. This is deeper. This is a war of good and evil, of truth, of secret keepers and truth seekers. And I think that if we don't get it under control, we're a generation away from losing the empire because we care about it. But you ask the next generation coming up, you ask Gen Z, And a lot of them don't believe all the bullshit, which is cool.

They don't believe what the legacy news media is telling them. They're like, man, all that's just lies. The problem is you extend that worldview into belief about our institutions. All of it's corrupt. All of it's lies. I don't believe in any of it anymore. Then you get permission to do this forever without consequence. Yeah. The people who grew up like we did are the last line against this. It is more urgent than people realize, because once you get into the next generation, we give up on this. It's over. I know. I know. But these people make mistakes. This isn't perfect. The people that have done this conspiracy, and I'm okay using that word because this is where the evidence takes me. People have called me a conspiracy theorist in the lawsuit against us for trespassing. And I don't give a damn about trespassing. Not one damn about it. I gotta correct Ben on two things. I love Ben, but I am an actively barred lawyer. Uh, my, my, sorry, I'm a barred lawyer with an inactive license. And he was very generous to me and just said that if they got caught, that they would have to worry about trespassing charge.

I don't give a shit about a trespassing charge. We are going to figure out whatever it takes to get to the truth on this matter. And they make mistakes. Here's another for you. So Let me give you these two documents. Oh, hold on. Yeah, these three documents, which we'll cover real quickly, but I think you're going to find this really interesting, John. So the first one is this one labeled page 6 at the top here. This is a page from the medical examiner's autopsy of Jeffrey Epstein. And the top line, the first full sentence says the prostate is slightly and diffusely enlarged with marked enlargement of the verumontanum. I don't know what that is. So this is her observation. Medical examiner, official autopsy for Jeffrey Epstein, that he does have a prostate. This next line, this is just kind of an aside. It's not relevant to the evidence here. It's just really embarrassing. It says the testes are unremarkable. I don't know that I'd want that in my autopsy. So she makes this position that there are— there is a prostate. This next document is a deposition. And he's asked the question. He's asked a series of hypothetical questions.

You can have high testosterone and still have a need for Viagra because you don't have a prostate, right? And he says, "Correct," seemingly indicating on face value that he doesn't have a prostate. Now, there's controversy over this because people make the argument that the "you" in that sentence is the royal "you," meaning sort of a general question about someone's medical condition. Okay, fair enough. But the next document is a LabCorp record, and he has a series of LabCorp records and other medical records as well as intake forms that begin as early as I could find as 2012, maybe, where he's having problems with his prostate, his testes. There's some kind of urological problem that he's having. And so he's visiting a urologist. And at the bottom of this and highlighted, it says, serum PSA should decrease and remain at undetectable levels after radical prostatectomy, which is the removal of the prostate. So in his deposition, he remarks that it'd be correct. This is what to expect if you don't have a prostate. In his LabCorp record, it seems to be a a document indicating either pre-surgery or follow-on, or at least some kind of analysis for what the condition of his prostate would be like, or his, his PSA in your analysis would be if he didn't have a prostate.

But the official finding in the autopsy is he had a prostate. And based on all of the other records that look at his medical history, and things that his associates sent him, it appears he most likely had prostate cancer. And I know that because his associates would send him medical journal articles about the state of the art of prostate cancer vaccines, cures. These were— there were 132 records if you search prostate cancer in the files. He also had a health coach that he seemingly donated a lot of money to who was sending him articles about, um, or referencing an article for him to go look at about being recovered from stage 4 prostate cancer. So these 3 files in and of themselves are not entirely determinative about the condition of the prostate, but it's a valid open question about whether he didn't have a prostate and the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner didn't track that and it wasn't his body on the table. Wow. Detractors of this theory make the comment that this bottom paragraph is boilerplate language on a LabCorp record. Fair enough, but he's still being evaluated for what his level should look like following a radical prostatectomy.

And prostate cancer is occurring many times throughout the files. So I'm not going to say that it's completely determinative, but it's a very open, valid question about if they made a mistake here. Mm-hmm. What we do know is that he had a body double of some kind. This is— say that again. We do know that the FBI's own memo show that they pushed out a body for the media to see that was covered in boxes and blankets to divert them away from following it as it moved away from the Metropolitan Correctional Center. We know that for sure. 100%. There's a memo showing that they pulled this scheme. To trick the media basically when it came out. But weirdly, the New York Post was there to take photos. And so what they did is, as the gurney came out, took photos of this alleged body on the gurney. From the FBI memo, they say it was boxes and sheets. The New York Post took photos of somebody, and we know that because we have those photos. And what people went back and did is they compared the photos of him on the gurney to his mugshots and compared the ear and the bridge of the nose.

And if you look at the cartilage of a dead person, it's not going to change that much. Like, their face is going to change the way that the— the body carries fluids. They'd look different. But your cartilage doesn't change right after you die. So you can see for yourself the difference between even just the nose. One of them is him dead, the New York Post photos, and the other is him alive. The mugshot. The bridge of the nose is curved. On the dead body, and it's more straight on the mugshot. The ear. The ear is interesting because you can identify a body based on the ears. We have unique shapes of our ears, kind of like a fingerprint in a way. And the version I'm showing you is in black and white. In color, this is more evident, but but I didn't have a color printer. No one has printers anymore. I was doing my job. Yeah, you could see the comparison of the ears. It's not the same ear. So who was on that gurney? Because based on this, unless something really crazy happened to his face after he died, which I guess is possible, that's not his face.

Wow.

Yeah, that is completely different. It's a different guy.

She put all this together and you look at it and you think, am I crazy?

The whole thing makes you think you're crazy.

It does.

It makes you think you're from the beginning. If you vocalize what you're thinking, the institutions, the administration will all label you crazy. Yeah, low IQ. CBS News conspiracy theorist.

CBS News covered an article on us. Say that again. CBS News did an article on us. Legacy media institution. I think the reporters that we talked to were good people. I think once it hit an editor desk, it said, oh, this has all been debunked. None of this has been debunked. None of it. It's lazy. If you can't contend with the facts, you smear me and Ben. You paint us as crazy conspiracy theorists. You do lawfare, sue us for civil trespass, anything, anything but contend with the evidence itself. And I think this is part of the playbook and the enemy is more sophisticated than we realize. I fell for some of their tricks, hook, line, and sinker. And the most clever one is the controversy that began right after he died. There was an autopsy that was performed, and the conclusion of the autopsy says this is death by hanging. Official narrative. At the same time, his brother Mark Epstein hires a forensic examiner to look at the results of the autopsy. The forensic examiner says, well, hold up, this, little bone in the neck called the hyoid bone. If that breaks, that's more consistent with strangulation.

And now this controversy begins between he killed himself or he was murdered.

From the jump, you know, that was manufactured as well.

If I'm wanting to take my kids to dinner as their dad, I say, hey, Do you guys want to go out for steak or sushi? Mm-hmm. And you know what they do? They bicker like 9-year-olds. Normal 9-year-old stuff. Steak, sushi, steak, sushi. I don't care. I love both. They're both great. But I've controlled the narrative. And what they did is brilliant. They controlled the narrative on this because they knew the official statement would be rejected. By people who don't trust our institutions immediately would be rejected. The number one global pedophile dies by suicide as the first suicide in 21 years. The Metropolitan Correctional Center, first suicide in 21 years. They know damn well that people are going to say, no way, we're not that dumb. So what happened? Well, the forensic examiner says, oh, this was suicide by hanging, and I fell for this hook, line, and sinker. It's like, clearly he was murdered. Clearly. It's a false choice. It's a false choice. The third option, it's entirely valid. Look, with my kids, there's a lot of other options. All their favorites. Chipotle, Chick-fil-A, whatever. Tons of options. But I narrowed it down to two, gave them two, and made them fight over which two.

So you've seen this in a near decade of memes now about Epstein didn't kill himself. Yeah, he didn't. He left the cell alive. That's the third option. And they controlled the narrative from day one. Brilliant move. Shit.

How much more do you have to look through?

There are some post-life signals that are interesting. You brought up the Fortnite one. I am not convinced that the official Fortnite position is anything but part of the coverup. I could be wrong. I'm not gonna hold onto that one too tight. Maybe he had another gaming account that went live called, uh, War Thunder under the email that he had. I don't know anything about War Thunder, but the email he had, G— jeevacation@gmail.com, I believe it is. There's receipts and things like that. There's activity on that email afterwards. That's very interesting. If everyone thinks you're dead, what do you care if you use the same email? Your files aren't coming out. No one has access to your Gmail. So those are intriguing. And then the most intriguing for me is there's a YouTuber named Rusty Shackelford.. And he flew a drone over Little Saint James. And he got like 2 hours of footage. 4K, looks like great resolution. And as he flies around, he brings the drone over roughly the middle of the island-ish. And there's some side-by-sides sitting there. And the drone is positioned above these side-by-sides, and there's someone in one of the side-by-sides in the driver's seat who leans forward and looks up at the drone and then goes back in that side-by-side.

And that person looked like an older gentleman with gray hair that met my threshold of this should be looked at. This is post-death. And let me tell you something about that island, because I've been to it. If you wanted to hide somewhere, these intelligence people will hide in plain sight. It wouldn't be a bad option, especially if you have to clean up some loose ends with your computers or technical infrastructure. No one's going to think you're alive. And even if I came forward and I said, he's alive and he's on that island, people would laugh at me. No way, man. No way. So it's not an unsafe place, particularly because you can stay there with extreme privacy. And the only way that you wouldn't have privacy is if someone has an aerial shot of you, which seems really unlikely. But this guy did. He flew this drone over and you can watch this footage on Rumble. It's been taken down all over the internet, but it's still up on Rumble as of today. Who knows if it'll still be up, but I'm sure people have preserved it. You can look and make your own decision.

This is post-death and pre-AI, which meets our criteria. If it's after he died and before the introduction of large language models, which can edit images. All right, we'll put that in. So you take all of these now in totality from the passport to the conditions in the jail cell, the trust. The escape plan, the condition of the body when he is wheeled out on the gurney and walk your way all the way down and then post-life signals that carry some weight. The option with the fewest problems of the three is that he left that cell alive and he left that cell alive. We want proof of life. Do you think you'll ever find out? We're going to try. Here's how we're going to do it and are doing it. So Alex, my co-founder, and I work for Rewards for Justice. It's the federal government's rewards program for information about the who's who in the national security world of bad guys. It's a very effective program. Put out $5 million for Bob Bad Guy. Say that you took a different path in life and you're Sean Ryan and you run a terrorist network and everyone that's in your staff here is part of your terrorist network.

And then you wake up one day and you see on the news that there's $5 million reward for information about the location of Sean Ryan. What are you worried about?

A lot of things.

Yeah. You're worried about everyone that knows your eye color, your plate numbers, where you bed down. It creates incentives for betrayal within your network. It also restricts your freedom of movement and closes your horizons. You can't travel anymore. Can't be on planes. Can't be jet-setting. You can't be driving around past marketplaces, going to see your associate friends. It makes the enemy adjust their TTPs. We don't have $5 million, but we do have is a lot of people that are mad about this. And we started the reward pool and put in $40,000 of our own money and people are contributing to this reward pool. If we're wrong, and I'm willing to be wrong, in fact I would prefer to be wrong, I take no satisfaction in being right about this. If we're wrong, every dollar in that reward pool goes to Ben's organization, We Fight Monsters, to help people in trafficking and addiction. Every dollar. If we're wrong and we can't prove it. But if we're right, that reward pool will grow and grow year over year as a long-term commitment to justice and truth. Hmm. Incentivize people to come forward. And if people have proof of life, we want direct observational evidence, not open source.

I mean, Ben is doing the open source side. My human collection side wants direct observational evidence. I was his driver, I was his gardener, I was his plastic surgeon. Those people because his associates aren't going to care. Say we get it to $1 million. Say some crazy person watching this who has a ton of money says, I believe in this, then puts in $10 million. His associates don't care about that much money. They don't care. But you know who would care? Or all of the logistical parts of his life that have people that require They're required to hide someone. Gardeners, security, drivers, maids, plastic surgeons, people that know. And this is not a fringe belief that he's alive among his people in the Virgin Islands and people that, you know, went to high school with him, survivors of his crimes. So you build a reward pool big enough. It becomes expensive to stay silent. Mm-hmm. Where do people go for that? They can go to EpsteinIsntDead.org, read the evidence, make your own conclusion. If you believe in this and you think you'll let that sell alive, consider the reward pool. The other thing that they can do is go to closedhorizon.com, where we've created a marketplace for truth.

We are tired of being lied to about everything and constant deception. Mm-hmm. Tired of it. There are questions that matter and are dangerous questions. If I'm right, this is a dangerous question. Closed Horizon allows anyone to create a campaign and fund it like GoFundMe and pay sources for information. Whatever your question is. There's other questions out there that are dangerous questions. Who really killed Charlie Kirk? It's a dangerous question. They don't have to be big questions. They can be little ones too. Who really killed JFK? Who killed JFK? These are big ones.

Where'd those files go? I mean, we were told they were going to release those files, right?

Yeah, he campaigned on that, right?

Trump did, if my memory is correct. Yes, he did.

Why is everything a lie? This is what I mean by an epistemological crisis. We have become accustomed to being lied to about everything. Yeah, I know.

Well, I hope you get to the bottom of this. That's some, um, pretty compelling evidence that you've got there.

We're not willing to give up on it. Can't, man. You can't give up on this one. Can't. What's next for you guys? The other way that people can help here is we're calling for an Epstein Truth Commission. And if any members of Congress have the courage to reach out to us, we believe that there should be an Epstein Truth Commission, like there was a 9/11 Truth Commission or 9/11 Commission and a Church Committee after the JFK assassination. Now, there's problems with those, sure, but the FBI has fully abdicated its duty to investigate this. Completely. There's no reason that Ann Rodriguez, based on my reading, shouldn't be charged under the Mann Act and the sex trafficking statute for procuring people and bringing them to the islands for illegal sexual activity. That's a low-hanging fruit one. That's the island manager, not a billionaire. That's an easy one. That's the sacrificial lamb, brought people to that island for the purpose of illegal sexual activity, harbored and transported for child victims for commercial sex. Something of value was exchanged for a commercial— for a sex act. So if there's no FBI and DOJ who's willing to do this in this administration, we need a long-term commitment to justice from our federal government.

I'm still trying to figure out how somebody gets arrested for sex trafficking when there's—

who do you traffic to? To nobody, Sean. Ghislaine and Epstein didn't traffic them to anybody. Believe that and go back to bread and circus.

I can't wait for that UFC fight. Let's go, baby!

It's gonna be a real good one. Yeah, the stakes are high. I think people have to wake up to that, man.

Well, Ryan, I really appreciate what you're doing, man. Thanks for coming in.

I have something for you. Oh shit, what? Oh, I got— Ben gave you the We Fight Monsters flag. This is the Closed Horizon flag. That we brought to the island. So you got two. Oh man, thank you. That's our, um, our logo is a reticle and the north compass, uh, a compass with the north indicated. Um, truth. Gotta find truth. I have another gift for you. My understanding is, is you were reading the Stoics. Is that right? Mhm. Who's your favorite? Marcus Aurelius. Marcus Aurelius, the OG Stoic. That's right. My interview yesterday was about this.

Yeah? Yeah.

He's made a generational impact on the lives of men. Be like the promontory upon which the waves continually crash while they're lulled to sleep at your feet. It's how a man should be. And you're one of those men. And this is a Roman denarius with the depiction of Marcus Aurelius on it. I give that to you as a fellow truth seeker. You have the courage to say things here that other people won't say. It was given to me by a truth seeker. I pass it to you as a truth seeker that is saying things that other people are afraid to say, won't say, that matter. And maybe one day you'll pass it along to another truth seeker and you'll have a long legacy of truth seekers who have owned that coin. I will. Thank you, man.

Ryan, I wish you the best of luck, and if you come across anything else, let me know. I'd love to have you and Ben and anybody else back that's in on this.

We'd love to come back.

All right, brother. God bless. Thanks, Sean.

Cheers.

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