Transcript of The Writing Life

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is It Girl. This podcast is all about going deeper with the women shaping culture right now. Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work behind it all.

As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated, so you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who you are and your integrity. You You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja.

Listen to "It Girl with Bailey Taylor" on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey there, this is Josh from Stuff You Should Know with a message that could change your life. The Stuff You Should Know Think Spring podcast playlist is available now. Whether spring has sprung in your neck of the woods yet or not, the Stuff You Should Know Think Spring playlist will make you want to get your overalls on, get outside, and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the Stuff You Should Know Think Spring playlist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Our iHeartRadio Music Awards are coming back Thursday, March 26th, live on Fox.

Watch as we honor the biggest stars from all genres of music that you loved listening to all year long on your favorite iHeartRadio station and the iHeartRadio app. Hosted by Ludacris. Icon Award recipient John Mellencamp Innovator Award recipient Miley Cyrus with performances by Alex Warren, Kehlani, Lainey Wilson, Ludacris, Rae, TLC, Salt-N-Pepa, and En Vogue. Plus, Taylor Swift makes her first award show appearance this year. Also, gold medal Olympian Alyssa Liu, Ne-Yo, Nicole Scherzinger, Nikki Glaser, Somber, Weezer, and more. Watch live on Fox Thursday, March 26th at 8/7c and listen on iHeartRadio stations across America and the free iHeart app.

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpwright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years Until a confession changed everything.

I was a monster.

Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

We've come a very long way together this season. Roald Dahl has gone through a lot. And when you look back at all of our episodes, all the different stages of Dahl's life, a pattern does begin to emerge. I think Dahl's entire life like for so many of us, was about a search for who he really was and where he belonged. And when you really think about it, that may also be the key to understanding his work. Matilda is entirely about her search for identity. The same could be said about Charlie and about James and Sophie and so many of the others. And what they all seem to figure out by story's end is that their true selves come to fruition not from conforming to other people's expectations, but from embracing the thing that makes them unique. Which, as we've heard, is also exactly what Dahl discovered in his own life. But it took him trying on all these different masks, all these different personas, in order to get there. He was the ambitious young businessman with Shell Oil, the courageous fighter pilot in the war, a playboy spy in D.C. and New York, a disgruntled screenwriter in L.A., an urbane, sophisticated author publishing in The New Yorker, and finally, the world-famous children's author who championed the underdog and weaponized mischief while espousing views that could have made him an antagonist in one of his own stories.

For My Heart Podcasts, Imagine Entertainment, and Parallax, I'm Aaron Tracy, and this is The Secret World of Roald Dahl, Episode 10. So were each of these stages necessary in Dahl's evolution? Certainly they all contributed to him living one of the biggest, noisiest lives of his century. But I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if that's necessary or even advantageous for a writer. I want to bring in Jesse Stern on this question. Jesse is maybe the best TV writer I've ever worked with, and he has a knack for writing these massive global hits like the CBS show NCIS or the video game Call of Duty: Modern Warfare. He's also spent the last year studying Hemingway and Salinger, authors of Dahl's generation, for a project that he's writing. I asked Jesse about the importance to these writers of going out, experiencing the world, and having big adventures. By the way, it's a theme Jesse very much incorporates into his own life. While I'm sitting in my bathrobe at home in Brooklyn right now, I caught up with Jesse where he's living these days in Santa Eulalia in the north of Ibiza.

It's not so much to me the adventure as it is, you know, you have to get some discomfort, you have to get into the unknown. It becomes really easy to convince yourself that you have enough exposure to the universe already. And I think it's crucial to find the balance between those two things, exploring outer space and exploring inner space. I got so fascinated between the relationship between Hemingway and J.D. Salinger, two guys who definitely saw the world and one decided I had enough of it and I'm going to spend the rest of my life in a bunker in my yard exploring the inner reaches of my own mind, and another who basically spent every day fishing, boating, fighting, hunting, fucking if he could. You know, when you get into a new environment, you get into a place you've never been before, it exposes all these different sides about the experiences that you've had. It shows you all these things that you've been taking for granted. It shows you things that you thought were load-bearing and essential that, oh, there's other ways of doing that. There's other ways of being. And also it pushes you to expand your own consciousness of what you're capable of.

And in that, what anybody is capable of. And I think that that broadens not just the imagination, but your sense of empathy. 'Cause when you read these stories of, of great heroes or great leaders or great adventurers throughout time, there's a certain aspect to it that feels impossible, that feels like, how did they do that? And when you have just a, a little bit of exposure you process the process of climbing a mountain, even if it's not the biggest mountain, you start to learn a little bit about what it takes to go up, what it takes to keep going up, what it feels like to get to the top and the experience of coming down. And you get to find a way that you can relate a little bit more to kind of impossible or historical figures. And it helps you, I think, to get into the mindset of what human beings are capable of. And how, and how they do it one step at a time, even in the most incredible achievements. I think in Dahl's situation, there's an aspect of necessity. He's not just pursuing adventures. These are things that were essential. Becoming a pilot, joining RAF, fighting in the war, it was essential.

There was really not much in the way of choice given to, you know, 24-year-old man in England in 1940, you had to. It was a matter of survival, which makes it even more infuriating that he can't find some form of empathy with the Israelis. I guess he just doesn't acknowledge that that place also fights for its survival. You know, and then talking about the, the invention for his son, again, that was out of necessity. It wasn't that he just you know, decided one day to become a medical inventor. Thomas Jefferson was the same way. You know, he would just find solutions, creative solutions to challenges that surrounded him, whether it was building his own violin or designing pocket doors in Monticello or writing pretty decent documents.

We're going to come back to Jesse, but first I want to talk a little bit about where and how Dahl wrote his own pretty decent documents, because they're the only reason we care at all about the adventures Dahl had, right? Dahl's writing process is completely fascinating to me. How did a guy who was used to flying aerial battles in the war and playing spy games in DC, how did that same guy find the ability to sit quietly in a room for years on end and produce mountains of writing? Here's Dahl in a Random House video, The Author's Eye, from 1988, 2 years before his death. He gives maybe the best analogy for the writing process that I've ever heard.

When you're writing, It's rather like going on a very long walk across valleys and mountains and things, and you get the first view of what you see and you write it down. Then you walk a bit further, maybe up onto the top of a hill, and you look down and you see something else, and you write that. And you go on like that day after day, getting different views of the same landscape, really. And the highest mountain on the walk is obviously the end of the book, because it's got to be the best view of all, when everything comes together and you can look back and see everything you've done and it all ties up. But it's a very, very long, slow process.

How great is that? It really gives Anne Lamott's Bird by Bird a run for its money in terms of finding the poetry in the act of writing. The writing life is clearly a subject Dahl thinks about a lot. Many of his most celebrated books are sort of extended metaphors for what it means to be a writer. Like my favorite of Dahl's adult works, The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar, which we talked about last episode. That story is maybe the most revealing mirror Dahl ever held up to his life as a writer. On the surface, it's about a wealthy narcissist who discovers a way to literally see through the backs of playing cards using meditation techniques. But strip away the magical realism, and it's about a man who locks himself away day after day, year after year, pursuing a single skill with monastic devotion, just like Dahl did with his writing. Learning to see through playing cards is just a more dramatically interesting version of learning to write well. And the practice completely changes Henry Sugar. It makes him a more generous, more enlightened, better man. Which I think is probably what Dahl hoped the writing life would do for him.

Once Dahl decided to devote his life to his craft in his late 40s, his routine, like Henry Sugar's, became one of almost religious ritual. Here's Dahl in his first memoir, Boy, discussing the challenges of choosing life as a writer, recreating his voice as we did in previous episodes.

The life of a writer is absolute hell compared with the life of a businessman. The writer has to force himself to work. He has to make his own hours, and if he doesn't go to his desk at all, there is nobody to scold him. If he is a writer of fiction, he lives in a world of fear. Each new day demands new ideas, and he can never be sure whether he's going to come up with them or not. 2 hours of writing fiction leaves this particular writer absolutely drained. For those 2 hours, he has been miles away. He has been somewhere else, in a different place, with totally different people, and the effort of swimming back into the normal surroundings is very great. It is almost a shock. The writer walks out of his workroom in a daze. He wants a drink. He needs it. It happens to be a fact that nearly every writer of fiction in the world drinks more whisky than is good for him. He does it to give himself faith, hope, and encourage. A person is a fool to become a writer. His only compensation is absolute freedom. He has no master except his own soul, and that, I'm sure, is why he does it.

I love that. Dahl manages to make the act of writing alone in a room just as brutal, terrifying, and filled with adventure as his life in Africa with Shell Oil, or as a fighter pilot, or as a spy. But it's all worth it because of the freedom it offers. So let's talk more about Dahl's particular act of writing. If you ask 50 different authors about their process, you'll get 50 different answers. I really can't get enough of this stuff. Tony Gilroy, who wrote Michael Clayton and more recently created the Star Wars series Andor, talks about initially setting up his writing office so his chair faced outside. But it soon felt like his ideas were flying out the window, and he had to rearrange the furniture. Here's Dahl in Thrillmaker. Interviewed by Peter Wallace, speaking about his own office.

Then at 10:30, I fill a thermos with hot coffee and take a mug in my hand and walk up to my work hut, which is away from the house, up in the apple orchard, about 150 meters from the house.

Could that sound any more idyllic? A writing hut in an apple orchard? A separate studio is actually pretty common among well-to-do writers. Dahl's hut was modeled on one built for the poet Dylan Thomas. Playwright Arthur Miller wrote a lot in Brooklyn Heights, but also escaped to a sparse little 7-by-10-foot hut on his property in Connecticut. No decoration, no distractions. The novelist Philip Roth also built himself a hut and constructed it with a standing, lecturing-like desk so he could confront his characters on his feet. Eye to eye. Virginia Woolf built a small garden lodge in Sussex, her famous Room of One's Own. Toni Morrison transformed a boathouse on the Hudson River in which to do her writing. As I record this, I'm in my house in Brooklyn, two doors down from the brownstone where Norman Mailer wrote his most famous books. Mailer didn't exactly have a hut, but he renovated the top floor of his house, his office, to look and feel exactly like a ship. With a long hall and slanted windowed ceilings, which is as crazy looking as you're imagining. Apparently, Mailer was afraid of water, and working all day in what felt like a boat forced him to confront his fears, which I guess he found helpful in his writing.

John Cheever, the tortured Chekhov of the suburbs, created maybe the most surreal office and morning commute of any writer I can think of. Every day, Cheever would put on a suit and tie as if heading to Wall Street, He'd exit his apartment, take the elevator down with the other commuters heading to work, but he'd continue past the lobby to the basement of his building. He'd unlock a small storage room, strip down to his underpants, and write all day surrounded by pipes and electrical boxes. When he was done, he'd get dressed and go back upstairs. Like I said, every writer does something unique. Here's Dahl again from Thrillmaker. On his setup inside his writing studio.

And, uh, I go into this splendid room which I really enjoy because it's so comfortable. There's an armchair. I don't sit up at a desk, I lie back in an armchair, and I put my feet up on a trunk which I filled with wood to make it hard. And the trunk is tied to the legs of the chair with bits of wire so that I can put my feet on the trunk like that and and push, and it won't go away.

Writing can be so scary. Laying back with your feet up helps you relax. Stephen Sondheim, the greatest writer of musical theater, wrote while fully laying down on his couch with a drink in his hand. David Milch, the brilliant creator of Deadwood and other TV shows, would lay with his back flat on the floor in his trailer and dictate all of his scripts to an assistant. Here's more of Dahl with Peter Wallace on Thrillmaker.

And so I get up there, and I get really comfortable, and I take a writing board which I've made myself, and I put it on the arms of the armchair, and underneath it I put a roll of thick paper so that the writing board slopes exactly where I want it. And I have 6 pencils, and I sharpen them, and I pour myself a coffee, and I feel very comfortable.

Whenever possible, Dahl wouldn't go back into the main house during his writing sessions. If someone in the house needed him, they would flash a lamp from a switch in the nursery. One flash meant someone was asking for him, and two flashes meant an emergency. The only time the lights had ever flashed twice was the day Olivia died, according to writer Barry Ferrell. All of this elaborate setup, of course, is in service of trying to get lost in his writing, which is the goal of pretty much every writer—to lose time, to get into a flow state. Dahl also used music to try to get there. Here he is on the long-running British radio show Desert Island Disks from 1979.

I never used to start writing in the morning before putting on some very great music, like a Beethoven quartet, and sit and listen to it in the hopes that some of this greatness would rub off on me and that I would write better. As a matter of fact, it helped quite a lot because it is impossible after listening to great music to write absolute rubbish.

The other most important decision for a writer is how long a stretch to write for. According to Barry Ferrell again, Dahl rarely ever worked in the evening. Dahl's ideal schedule was a session from 10 AM to noon in the morning and another from 3 to 6 in the afternoon. Two good stints with a solid break in between. Here's Dahl again on The Author's Eye.

The great thing, of course, is Never to work for too long at a stretch, because after about 2 hours, you are not at your highest peak of concentration, so you have to stop.

When I was trying to break in as a writer, I would write all day, banker's hours. But over time, you realize so many of those hours are just wasted. My favorite thinker on this subject is Oliver Berkman. In his essay on the 3 or 4 hours rule for getting creative work done, he writes, "You almost certainly can't consistently do the kind of work that demands serious mental focus for more than about 3 or 4 hours a day." He continues, quote, "It's positively spooky how frequently this 3 to 4 hour range crops up in accounts of the habits of the famously creative. Charles Darwin, at work on the theory of evolution, toiled for 2 90-minute periods and one 1-hour period per day. Thomas Jefferson, Charles Dickens, Virginia Woolf, Ingmar Bergman, and many more all basically followed suit. The lesson here is to ring-fence 3 or 4 hours of undisturbed focus, ideally when your energy levels are highest. Just focus on protecting 4 hours and don't worry if the rest of the day is characterized by the usual scattered chaos, Bergman explains. And you'll be shocked at how much you get done if you just consistently put in 3 to 4 hours a day.

Which is precisely what Dahl always did. Let's turn now to what Dahl's elaborately thought-out writing process actually led to. I want to speak to someone who can talk a little more specifically about the books, because that's Dahl's legacy, right? As fascinating as Dahl's life was, as successful as the film and TV adaptations have been, and as much ink has been spilled on the charges of antisemitism, if people are still thinking about Roald Dahl 100 years from now, he will be because of the books.

Well, my name is Mark West. I'm an English professor at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, and my specialty is children's literature, young adult literature, and the history of childhood.

Mark is one of the world's experts on this subject. I asked him to start off by talking a little bit about how exactly Dahl changed the landscape of children's literature.

But when he came on the scene as a children's author in 1961, Children's books during that 1950s time period and before tended to be books that authors tried to make sure were quote unquote good for children. They had a, um, if not a moral message, they were upstanding in a way. One of the things that Roald Dahl brought to the whole children's literature scene was he was trying to write children's books that appealed to children's sense of humor and the way they look at things, which is somewhat different from the way in which adults look at things. He was not interested in being preachy. There's nothing moralistic or didactic about his books, but his sense of humor that runs through so many of his children's books is the kind of humor that children have, but the kind of humor that some adults find off-putting. They find it a little crude in a way. Sometimes he's accused of breaking taboos and in some ways playing into the things that kids find funny, such as things that are kind of gross in a way. There's a real odd discrepancy in the world of children's literature. A lot of the award-winning children's books aren't books that adults like, but kids sometimes don't like as much.

Conversely, a lot of the books that are really bestselling books that kids love are not sometimes the books that adults love. Adults like kids' books for somewhat different reason than kids do. Adults that like to read children's books, and there are lots, including me, look for books that kind of bring them back to that sense of nostalgia, the childhood innocence, the sense of the good old days. But kids don't look at the world that way. Kids are never nostalgic about childhood. They're always ready to kind of pushed the envelope a little bit. One of the things that Roald Dahl did in his books is he kind of played up this slightly adversarial relationship between kids and adults.

Creating adversarial relationships is, of course, a major theme in Dahl's personal life, too. Mark actually got to spend some time with Dahl not long before Dahl's death. He asked Dahl about paving the way for the explosion of children's lit that came in his wake.

One of the things that he said to me when we were talking about writing for kids is he said, well, the kids sometimes see adults as the enemy. And by that he meant that he thought that in some ways kids think of adults as these big people, powerful people who are trying to civilize them. But in some ways kids don't want to be civilized. In some ways, that famous line from Sigmund Freud, civilization and its discontents. Well, in some ways, kids are part of that discontent business. In some ways, kids are reluctant to be civilized, and you see that play out in children's sense of humor. So when Dahl became successful, first with James and the Giant Peach, and then Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and then the other books that came after that, he kind of opened up the door for other children's authors to write children's books that really appeal to children's tastes. Rather than the tastes of adults.

But of course, very few other children's authors ever achieved anything close to Dahl's commercial or critical success. When The Guardian came out with its list of the 100 best novels ever, not children's novels, just novels, Dahl's The BFG came in at number 88, only a little bit behind classics by Saul Bellow and Gabriel García Márquez. I asked Mark how Dahl's work evolved over time. And especially how his characters changed.

You'll see a progression. And one of the things that I think is interesting about that progression is you'll see child characters, the central characters, getting more and more agency. So in the very first children's books like James and the Giant Peach and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, you have really imaginative situations, very clever writing, but the central characters, they're kind of passive. Things happen to them. Things happen to James, things happen to Charlie, and they're good kids, but they're not really taking a lot of action in the context of their plots. But as you work your way up, ending up with Matilda, Matilda has so much agency. In some ways, Matilda actually has more power in terms of her interactions with adult characters than the adults do. She outwits the adults. She outwits the teacher who runs the school. She is much more clever than her parents, even though her parents think of themselves as being very smart and whatnot. Matilda is much smarter than they are. So that was something that I think Roald Dahl showed, that children's books can have characters where the kids really make a difference, where they have agency, where they can make decisions that matter, where they can outwit adults.

And that way, I think he's sort of similar to Mark Twain. There's a lot of connections between Mark Twain and Roald Dahl, in my opinion. But I think that for Roald Dahl, he showed us child characters that you can root for and that make a difference. And you see that actually play itself out in another really popular series that I think has connections to Roald Dahl, and that is the Harry Potter series, where Harry and Hermione and the other kids in the Harry Potter books have in some ways more agency or are able to do things that the adults are not able to do. In some ways, the kids are able to solve problems that the powerful gifted adults around them are not able to solve. So in some ways, the agency that you see with a character like Harry Potter, I think goes back to some of the characters that you would see in some of Roald Dahl's children's books.

I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is It Girl. You may know me from my It Girl series I've done on the streets of New York over the years. Well, I've got good news. I am bringing those interviews and many more to this podcast. Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work with the women shaping culture right now.

As a woman in the industry, in this industry, you're always underestimated. So you have to work extra hard and you have to push the narrative in a way that doesn't compromise who you are and your integrity. You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja.

Each week I have unfiltered conversations with female founders, creatives, and leaders to talk about ambition, visibility, and what it really takes to build something meaningful in the public eye. Because being an It Girl isn't about the spotlight, it's about owning it. I think the negatives need to be discussed, and they need to be told to people who maybe don't do this every day, just so they know what's really going on. I feel like pulling the curtain back is important. Listen to It Girl with Bailee Taylor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It Girl.

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpwright became the victim victim of a random crime.

He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground.

He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years.

I'm like, Lord, this can't be real.

I thought it was a mistaken identity.

The best lie is partial truth. For 22 years, only 2 Few people knew the truth until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey there, this is Josh from Stuff You Should Know with a message that could change your life. The Stuff You Should Know: Think Spring podcast playlist is available now. Whether spring has sprung in your neck of the woods yet or not, the Stuff You Should Know: Think Spring playlist will make you want to get your overalls on, get outside, and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the Stuff You Should Know: Think Spring playlist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's go! Our iHeartRadio Music Awards are coming back Thursday, March 26th, live on Fox.

Watch as we honor the biggest stars from all genres of music that you loved listening to all year long on your favorite iHeartRadio station and the iHeartRadio app. Hosted by Ludacris. Icon Award recipient John Mellencamp. Innovator Award recipient Miley Cyrus. With performances by Alex Warren, Kehlani, Lainey Wilson, Ludacris, Rae, TLC, Salt-N-Pepa, and En Vogue. Plus Taylor Swift makes her first award show appearance this year. Also, gold medal Olympian Alyssa Liu, Ne-Yo, Nicole Scherzinger, Nikki Glaser, Somber, Weezer, and more. Watch live on Fox Thursday, March 26th at 8/7c and listen on iHeartRadio stations across America and on the free iHeart app.

Mark and I also talked about the charges of bigotry against Dahl and what some have described as Dahl's volatile personality. Mark says Dahl was equally volatile in his work.

If he didn't like what he wrote, he oftentimes would just burn it. I mean, literally burn it. He had this little spot outside his garden shed, which was made out of stone, where he would ritualistically burn it so that he couldn't be tempted to go back and try to fix it up. He's like, no. This doesn't pass my test. We're gonna burn it. He was a very theatrical, over-the-top sort of person. And I think in some ways, when people look at Roald Dahl and some of the things that he said, they don't really understand that he was in some ways a very over-the-top sort of person. A person who would say things that might be considered certainly offensive, but he didn't always believe what he said. He loved to get a rise out of you. He was. That kind of curmudgeon that really we don't have room in our society so much today for that kind of colorful curmudgeon. But in terms of what he was trying to provide for children, I think he was very sincere about that. I think he wanted to provide kids with books that they would like to read, books that would appeal to their tastes, and books that would in some ways provide them with examples of kids who cope with difficult situations.

But come out on top on some level. And you see that in almost all of his children's books. I think in some ways people don't really understand that side of Roald Dahl. Somebody who's kind of a curmudgeon, sometimes say things they know they will get a rise out of you. He kind of enjoyed doing that. Some people say, oh, Roald Dahl was an SOB. Some people say, oh, Roald Dahl was the most gracious person you could ever imagine. Well, in fact, he was both of those. Things. But you can pick out a quotation here or quotation there to prove whatever case you want to. But in some ways, he was just a very complex person and an interesting person. So I'm very grateful that he took the time out to talk to me and introduce me to his family and buy me many drinks.

Dahl's complexity is mirrored in the complex characters he created, especially in his adult fiction. Jesse Stern is a big old fan of Dahl's books for adults. Especially Dahl's 1979 novel My Uncle Oswald. I asked Jesse to tell us why.

There was such a sense of discovery when you realize that the guy, the same guy who's been writing all these children's books that you love, also wrote adult books, especially when you're a teenager or preteenager, whatever I was. I think I was at summer camp when I found My Uncle Oswald, right? So you're just starting to read books that have sex in it, and it feels like, you know, you're getting away with something, like you're doing something that's forbidden. It kind of blew my mind that the same person could do both of these things. There was definitely a time in the development of my own brain where that was incomprehensible. How does, you know, one guy produce these completely different worlds? Why would the guy who's trying to make me laugh and smile and feel all these warm feelings, you know, also want to scare the crap out of me? Or why does this guy want to tell these dirty stories? It definitely entered my mind. My Uncle Oswald, I just loved the story. I loved how it was presented. You know, there's this whole introduction to My Uncle Oswald where Oswald has died and he's left behind this massive trove of his journals, which are so scandalous that it would bring down multiple governments if they were ever released to the public.

And his surviving nephew, who's been bequeathed these stories, is sifting through them. And this is the only one he's found that is actually readable. And it's still so salacious and so scandalous that you won't even believe that it's true. I love that presentation. I mean, still, I still love that presentation. I love the fantasy of amassing an encyclopedia's worth of journals by the end of a lifetime, particularly well-told stories. And then you get into the story of Michael Oswald, and it's just delightfully dirty. It's got all these aspects that I love to it. You know, this guy traipsing through real history. He's in Vienna. They realize that at a certain time in Vienna, you can knock off multiple prominent people in history. How to figure out how to get Sigmund Freud to have sex with his partner, and how are they going to get Proust to have sex with her, you know, which can require dressing her up as a boy. They've got the scarab beetle that makes men, you know, insatiable and they just have to have sex right away. They've basically invented a condom. Drawing on their experiences in animal husbandry. I think they visit, you know, the mating of a cow and a bull.

It's just filthy and hilarious. And it's a good story. You know, it's a sperm feast, historical sperm feast story. I mean, the idea that this guy could do both of those things, it presents an opportunity for everyone, for the reader to, hey, you can do whatever you want. You can tell whichever stories you want. And it's really a challenge if you're, you know, a creative person to tell any story well, to make any story successful. And once you do, pretty much the response you're gonna get from the world around you is, hey, do that same thing again. Once you've found a way into this marketplace, let's give them exactly the same thing, maybe a little bit different, but close enough. Every writer out there that you know that is successful, the things that you know of them in terms of their work, it's just a small sample of what they're capable of. Any great writer could write anything. They only have the time, opportunity, inclination, reason to write what they have written.

I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is It Girl. You may know me from my It Girl series I've done on the streets of New York over the years. Well, I've got good news. I am bringing those interviews and many more to this podcast. Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work with the women shaping culture right now.

As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated. So you have to work extra hard and you have to push the narrative in a way that doesn't compromise who you are and your integrity. You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja.

Each week I have unfiltered conversations with female founders, creatives, and leaders to talk about ambition, visibility, and what it really takes to build something meaningful in the public eye. Because being an it girl isn't about the spotlight, it's about owning it. I think the negatives need to be discussed, and they need to be told to people who maybe don't do this every day, just so they know what's really going on. I feel like pulling the curtain back is important. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey girl, I'm Nancy Glass, host of The Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpwright became the victim of a random crime.

He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground.

He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years.

I'm like, Lord, this can't be real.

I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth.

For 22 years, only 2 people knew the truth until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's go!

Our iHeartRadio Music Awards are coming back Thursday, March 26th, live on Fox.

Watch as we honor the biggest stars from all genres of music that you loved listening to all year long on your favorite iHeartRadio station and the iHeartRadio app. Hosted by Ludacris, Icon Award recipient John Mellencamp, Innovator Award recipient Miley Cyrus, with performances by Alex Warren, Kehlani, Lainey Wilson, Ludacris, Rae, TLC, Salt-N-Pepa, and En Vogue. Guess Taylor Swift makes her first award show appearance this year. Also, gold medal Olympian Alyssa Liu, Ne-Yo, Nicole Scherzinger, Nikki Glaser, Somber, Weezer, and more. Watch live on Fox Thursday, March 26th at 8/7c, and listen on iHeartRadio stations across America and the free Hey there!

This is Josh from Stuff You Should Know with a message that could change your life. The Stuff You Should Know Think Spring podcast playlist is available now! Whether spring has sprung in your neck of the woods yet or not, the Stuff You Should Know Think Spring playlist will make you want to get your overalls on, get outside, and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the Stuff You Should Know Think Spring Spring playlist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

One of Dahl's adult stories that I love is The Great Automatic Grammatizator from 1953. In the London Review of Books, Colin Burrow summarizes the plot: a couple of jaded men design a computerized writing machine with the aim of cornering the market in magazine short stories. All the author has to do is press a button. Historical, satirical, philosophical, political, romantic, erotic, humorous, or straight, and choose a style—classical, whimsical, racy, Hemingway, Faulkner, Joyce, feminine, etc.—and the machine will do the rest. Sound familiar? It's exactly what's happening today with AI. Every writer today is grappling with what to do about the fact that the act of writing can now be outsourced to artificial intelligence. My writer friends and I are genuinely terrified that the skill we've spent our lives working on will be completely useless in a few years. And that's exactly what Dahl was envisioning in his story written over 70 years ago. Luckily, we're not quite there yet. But in a few years, it's pretty easy to imagine that you'll be able to just open the newest AI bot and say, "Write me a thriller with the structure of Gillian Flynn, the outrageous characters of a Phoebe Waller-Bridge show, the witty dialog of Billy Wilder, all in the tone of a dark Roald Dahl story." and in a few seconds, it'll pop out a story that would've taken me a year or more to wrestle out.

Dahl's story is a cautionary tale. It's the antithesis of what makes his work so memorable, namely his incredibly compelling, unique voice that was mined from years of adventures. So as we finish up, this feels like the moment that I'm supposed to opine on Dahl's legacy. Honestly, the fact that he's still everywhere over 35 years after his death is a legacy in itself. I started keeping a list of every time Dahl or one of his creations popped up in something random I was watching or reading during the months that I made this show. The list got too long to keep up with. Once you start looking for him, you'll find him everywhere. Whether it's a song lyric or a politician's speech or a TikTok about Matilda that has tens of millions of views. Even if you just look for Charlie and the Chocolate Factory references, you'd be overwhelmed. A recent obituary I read in the New York Times for a pizza maker described him as "the Willy Wonka of cheese." A profile in Vulture of Jay Leno called the comedian's garage "the chocolate factory" and he's Willy Wonka. Literally just this morning, I opened an email newsletter that I subscribe to on the science of happiness that referenced a golden ticket to well-being.

I defy you to find anywhere near the same number of references to any other writer, with the possible, possible exception of Shakespeare. Here's what I think Dahl's enduring presence in culture really means: the stories we tell our kids are so powerful, so foundational to who we become, that we'll keep them alive no matter what we learn about their creator. Dahl's creations aren't everywhere despite his flaws. They're everywhere because we've decided his flaws don't matter enough to let his stories die. This isn't nostalgia. It's an active, collective moral decision. We're saying some art transcends its creator so completely that it belongs more to us than to them. Dahl's stories have become part of the architecture of childhood itself. Claire Dederer, who we heard from earlier in the season, wrote an essay quoting the writer Martha Gellhorn's views on how some great mid-century artists were horrible human beings. Gellhorn wrote from experience, being married to Ernest Hemingway. She was also pals with Dahl. And may have been thinking about both men when she said she didn't think an artist needed to be a monster. She thought a monster needed to make himself into an artist. Quote, "A man must be a very great genius to make up for being such a loathsome human being." I think there's a lot of wisdom in that, but I do wonder if Gjelhorn was maybe asking the wrong question here.

Maybe the real question isn't whether or not Dahl's genius excuses his cruelty, but how his cruelty informed his genius. Who else could write so convincingly about the casual evil of adults except someone who understood that darkness intimately? Quoting a favorite European poet, Dahl once said, "When I'm dead, I hope it's said my skins were scarlet but my books were red." He definitely achieved that. Dahl was such a legendary, almost mythic figure by the end of his life that his death was pretty shocking to people. Dahl passed away at 74 from a blood disease. According to writer Nadia Cohen, his family gathered around him and played one of his favorite pieces of music while a nurse injected a lethal dose of morphine. As the needle pricked him, Dahl shouted an obscenity. It was the last word he ever spoke. One last thing before we say goodbye, and this feels like kind of a perfect metaphor for any biographical You should know Roald Dahl is not Roald Dahl. What I mean is, I haven't said his name correctly a single time over 10 episodes. Even as celebrated as he was, Dahl remains, in many ways, a stranger to us.

Here's Dahl's first wife, Patricia Neal, from an interview with Arlene Hersson on the correct pronunciation of her husband's name. Uh, Ray-old.

Roald, that's how it's pronounced.

I was gonna say, how do you pronounce it?

Because it's so— It's spelled R-O-A-A-R—

R-O-A-L-D. Right. Roald. In the story that was on television.

It's been a giant pleasure spending this season with you. I hope you've enjoyed it even a fraction as much as I have. Now let's finish the show by hearing from those Dahl most wanted to please with his writing. This is from Roald Dahl: Cover to Cover, a 1989 video where Lily Steiner captured Dahl's visit to Melbourne, Australia.

Well, I like Roald Dahl because his stories are funny, and I like how long his books are, and they're really interesting. I think he's very interesting, and I like the way he presented his books. Over 70 years old, and he comes from Norway. I don't know much about Roald Dahl, but I know a lot about his books. Well, he's a terrific writer. I really like his writing. I was really surprised because some people say he's really cantankerous, but he was really nice. He's not mean at all. He makes lots of children happy. Um, he's a nice man. He's a great storyteller. To come and see Roald Dahl was a good experience for me.

The Secret World of Roald Dahl is produced by Imagine Audio and Parallax Studios for iHeartPodcasts. Created and written by me, Aaron Tracy. Produced by Matt Schrader. Post-production by Windhill Studios, with editing, scoring, and sound design by Mark Henry Phillips. Editing by Ryan Seaton. Music by APM. Executive producers: Nathan Cloake, Cara Welker, Brian Grazer, Ron Howard, and Aaron Tracy. Additional voice performances and recreation by Mark Henry Phillips and Eleven Labs. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate and review The Secret World of Roald Dahl on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Copyright 2026, Imagine Entertainment, iHeartMedia, and Parallax.

I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is It Girl. This podcast is all about going deeper with the women shaping culture right now. Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work behind it all.

As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated, so you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who you are and your integrity. You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja.

Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's go!

Our iHeartRadio Music Awards are coming back Thursday, March 26th, live on Fox.

Watch as we honor the biggest stars from all genres of music that you loved listening to all year long on your favorite iHeartRadio station and the iHeartRadio app. Hosted by Ludacris, Icon Award recipient John Mellencamp, Innovator Award recipient Miley Cyrus, with performances by Alex Warren, Kehlani, Lainey Wilson, Ludacris, Ray, TLC, Salt-N-Pepa, and En Vogue. Plus, Taylor Swift makes her first award show appearance this year. Also, gold medal Olympian Alyssa Liu, Ne-Yo, Nicole Scherzinger, Nikki Glaser, Somber, Weezer, and more.

Watch live on Fox, Thursday, March 26th at 8/7c.

And listen on iHeartRadio stations across America and the free iHeart app.

Hey there, this is Josh from Stuff You Should Know with a message that could change your life. The Stuff You Should Know Think Spring podcast playlist is available now. Whether spring has sprung in your neck of the woods yet or not, the Stuff You Stuff You Should Know: Think Spring playlist will make you want to get your overalls on, get outside, and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the Stuff You Should Know: Think Spring playlist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpwright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.

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